Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Fisherbob on April 01, 2013, 10:17:27 AM
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/200502521.html
In response to.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/error/?errorURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.campbellrivermirror.com%2Fopinion%2Fletters%2F200122881.htmlhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.campbellrivermirror.com%2Fopinion%2Fletters%2F200122881.html
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Not sure what was changed in the first one, but this link works.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/200122881.html
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Did the link to the opinion section get all wonky as well?
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http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8187408
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Thanks for that link Fisherbob, perhaps some might even read it ;)
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Your welcome Dave. It sure looks like Alaska has no problem farming salmon along with the Atlantic farms in Washington.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
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Thanks for that link Fisherbob, perhaps some might even read it ;)
It's written by Walling of the BC Salmon Farmers Association.... She couldn't care less if every single wild salmon disappeared.... other than it would make her job easier. You're not going to get any facts straight by reading what she writes...
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It's written by Walling of the BC Salmon Farmers Association.... She couldn't care less if every single wild salmon disappeared.... other than it would make her job easier. You're not going to get any facts straight by reading what she writes...
Not going to get any facts from you - that's for certain.
You do realize that salmon farms do exist in Puget Sound and off the West Coast of Vancouver Island and that Harrison Sockeye juveniles were found wintering off the West Coast of Vancouver Island according to Tucker et al 2009. This is the same paper that Ms Morton uses as evidence that Harrison Sockeye migrate up the West Coast of Vancouver Island. However, Cohen says that the evidence on the migratory route used by Harrison Sockeye is still uncertain (Vol. 3; Chapter 2, page 62). Unless you believe the map used by farm critics in the film that show that Harrison Sockeye smolts migrate out into open ocean immediately after leaving Juan de Fuca Strait instead of staying close to the continental shelf or shorelines where their food sources are more likely to be.
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/wild_2009_stock_specific_migrations_juvenile_sockeye.pdf
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/all_companies_2007-12_out_migration_sites.pdf
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It's written by Walling of the BC Salmon Farmers Association.... She couldn't care less if every single wild salmon disappeared.... other than it would make her job easier. You're not going to get any facts straight by reading what she writes...
Are the facts all straight by reading what only Morton writes AF?
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It's written by Walling of the BC Salmon Farmers Association.... She couldn't care less if every single wild salmon disappeared.... other than it would make her job easier.
How do you know it's written by Walling AF? I don't see any identification on the blog. ???
And why do you say Walling doesn't care if wild salmon disappear? Has she written something that you could quote and reference? I don't recall hearing anyone, anywhere, ever say in public they would like wild salmon to disappear.
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Big companies into wild and farmed fish.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
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How do you know it's written by Walling AF? I don't see any identification on the blog. ???
Maybe you are looking at a different article.... This is the link Fisherbob posted and Dave thinks everyone should read: http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8187408 (http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8187408)
And why do you say Walling doesn't care if wild salmon disappear? Has she written something that you could quote and reference? I don't recall hearing anyone, anywhere, ever say in public they would like wild salmon to disappear.
Of course she has never publicly admitted that she doesn't care if wild salmon disappear. If she ever did she would be looking for a new job. However simple logic makes it obvious. If there were no wild salmon there would be no negative reactions to feedlots (like in Chile), and if there were no wild salmon there would be no competition for the feedlots product on grocery shelves.
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You mean that a "fun house mirror perspective" makes it obvious.
How are the gala's ticket sales going? Don is running low on rent money and needs a new orange prison suit so make sure you donate.
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You mean that a "fun house mirror perspective" makes it obvious.
How are the gala's ticket sales going? Don is running low on rent money and needs a new orange prison suit so make sure you donate.
oooohhh, low blow steve.....
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oooohhh, low blow steve.....
If we can't take it, we should not be giving it. :)
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Attack of the Salmon Sewing Circle, complete with recent articles from Pravda. Walling is the cakehole of the farmers , so you think there would be any balance? (Now I wait for the attacks about how little I know to no education and so on.) You guys need to change your methods, WAY too predictable. Boring.
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http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/forum/
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Pravda 2.0
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Pravda 2.0
Comparing those who disagree to Communists. The discussion inches slowly but surely towards its unavoidable conclusion. #GodwinsLaw
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Well I found prudent advice on that site. Even if it's a couple years old.
"You might find it interesting to note that the original BC salmon facts facebook page had a lot of very informative posts on it that attempted to carefully elucidate the pros and cons of allowing salmon farms to operate in BC.
Unfortunately much of the posts that revealed cons were deleted or censored when the site watchdogs were unable to effectively argue against them.
This site is not the place to explore the issue in an unbiased manner. If you truly are interested in the subject and aren't a fabricated post placed here by the bc salmon facts website as an easy lead in, then please explore all the available information sources, consider that the bc salmon farmers are not here for us, that is only the spin they want you to fall for. "
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Comparing those who disagree to Communists. The discussion inches slowly but surely towards its unavoidable conclusion. #GodwinsLaw
Try replacing communists with propagandists. ;)
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http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/opinion/story.html?id=72822b54-d384-4ff5-bae9-9b466c938bf3
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Try replacing communists with propagandists. ;)
Yep, even John Fredriksen {GOOGLE}, the shipping and oil drilling magnate and apparently the largest shareholder in Marine Harvest, has been reported as saying the fish feedlots and wild salmon should not be near one another.
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http://bamp.ca/pages/home.php
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Another great link Fisherbob, thanks.
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/04/10/alexandra-morton-rewrites-her-own-history/
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More fibs?
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/04/16/salmon-confidentials-biggest-fib/
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More fibs?
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/04/16/salmon-confidentials-biggest-fib/
Yup, some beauties this time. Amazingly, some people still send her money for producing this stuff.
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Not any more of my money Dave. The comment at the bottom of this one is interesting.
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/04/17/the-character-assassination-of-simon-jones/
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"Thanks for commenting Dave! Please feel free to share this blog around so more people can get the facts."
A hard won victory on salmonconfidential. Although I get the feeling they was going down the same road anyway.
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appreciate the sharing troutbreath :)
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War of the worlds. Good story.
http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/opinion/story.html?id=9c4ac6ff-118c-4711-af93-5782be1a9a7b
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Who needs science? I thought the video was funny. If you do not like a few bad words in a comedy, do not watch it. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/04/19/science-i-dont-need-no-stinking-science/
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Yawn- Every piece of propaganda is from the fish farm companies or their toadies. Pathetic and boring.
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Yawn- Every piece of propaganda is from the fish farm companies or their toadies. Pathetic and boring.
Just as pathetic as my donations going to nothing i guess.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/blog/here-we-go-again-alexandra-morton-%E2%80%9Cquitting%E2%80%9D
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Independent science Sonny ;). Have some of that hogwash peer reviewed.
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Independent science Sonny ;). Have some of that hogwash peer reviewed.
Thanks but I have donated enough to Ms Morton to get hogwash. Time for investment change for our children's future :)
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http://tumblerridgenews.com/?p=10703
Good article from Chris posted on another thread. Peruse and digest.
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http://tumblerridgenews.com/?p=10703
Good article from Chris posted on another thread. Peruse and digest.
Perused, digested, and nature is taking it's course and this will end up where it belongs. Awesome journalism (who knew TR had a newspaper?) and an even better photo :D
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The film twister.
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/04/22/filmmakers-unwittingly-disprove-their-own-hypothesis/
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Miller time.
http://salmonconfidential.com/misquoting-miller/
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For a guy that claimed to be against fish farms in the beginning, you sure have turned into a shill for them.
I think that was the plan all along.
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For a guy that claimed to be against fish farms in the beginning, you sure have turned into a shill for them.
I think that was the plan all along.
Sorry Easywater, that was not planned at all. I feel my donations were going to save wild salmon. I see now they only go to making videos and informing us with twisted tales. If Morton goes to this extent to get attention with a movie, i sure can not trust her science. I wish I saw this a few years ago. Lesson learned here. Research before investing. Really, I wish I knew then, what I know now.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=269
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Thankfully, she is become more and more isolated. In April 2013, Alexandra Morton’s name was removed from the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia. She is no longer a Professional Biologist.
Must have been the movie that was the last straw.
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Must have been the movie that was the last straw.
About time she lost that accreditation as it was most likely embarrassing to responsible biologists, Canada wide.
It really is mind boggling how some people seem to need this scapegoat known as the danger's of salmon farms for declining salmon returns, but continue and indeed demand harvest rates and shares of economical and social aspirations to kill wild salmon IE, commercial, sports, aboriginal fisheries, sports shops, guides, tackle companies, fish and game clubs/ societies and many others who firmly believe they are not at fault.
Fisherbob has offered a lot of links for people to see what Ms. Morton is all about .... IMO she has harmed future wild BC salmon with her demand to halt salmon farming and to only eat wild, because there are virtually no wild salmon populations in BC able to withstand increased harvest pressures, by any user group. Having said that I expect a larger market for FN caught salmon now, with all that brings, thanks to Morton.
There are however, lots of ranched Alaskan salmon out there in the Pacific competing with BC fish – could she perhaps be advocating for increasing that consumption? To me that's not in BC’s best economic interest but my opinion aside, if not from Alaska, where do these non farmed salmon come from?
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Maybe land based tanks? This paranoia about anti fish farming is getting unpalatable.
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For a guy that claimed to be against fish farms in the beginning, you sure have turned into a shill for them.
I think that was the plan all along.
I agree Easywater, thats not hard to see.
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About time she lost that accreditation as it was most likely embarrassing to responsible biologists, Canada wide.
It really is mind boggling how some people seem to need this scapegoat known as the danger's of salmon farms for declining salmon returns, but continue and indeed demand harvest rates and shares of economical and social aspirations to kill wild salmon IE, commercial, sports, aboriginal fisheries, sports shops, guides, tackle companies, fish and game clubs/ societies and many others who firmly believe they are not at fault.
Fisherbob has offered a lot of links for people to see what Ms. Morton is all about .... IMO she has harmed future wild BC salmon with her demand to halt salmon farming and to only eat wild, because there are virtually no wild salmon populations in BC able to withstand increased harvest pressures, by any user group. Having said that I expect a larger market for FN caught salmon now, with all that brings, thanks to Morton.
There are however, lots of ranched Alaskan salmon out there in the Pacific competing with BC fish – could she perhaps be advocating for increasing that consumption? To me that's not in BC’s best economic interest but my opinion aside, if not from Alaska, where do these non farmed salmon come from?
It was not unexpected that we would finally hear a rant from one of the pro feedlot boys.... especially since a few of them have become strangely silent.
If the rant was prompted by the rumor that Alex's name was "removed from the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia", perhaps you could provide a link to support that. I suspect that the basis for that rumor was probably found on the same site that Fisherbob seems to get his "facts".
It's too bad that the folks that post on that site don't even have the courage to identify themselves....
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It was not unexpected that we would finally hear a rant from one of the pro feedlot boys.... especially since a few of them have become strangely silent.
If the rant was prompted by the rumor that Alex's name was "removed from the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia", perhaps you could provide a link to support that. I suspect that the basis for that rumor was probably found on the same site that Fisherbob seems to get his "facts".
It's too bad that the folks that post on that site don't even have the courage to identify themselves....
I have posted on that site and my name is Dave Barnes ..who are you?
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I have posted on that site and my name is Dave Barnes ..who are you?
cue Jeopardy theme music.......
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I have posted on that site and my name is Dave Barnes ..who are you?
I already know who you are and you know who i am.......
Are you or aquapaloosa going to provide some evidence of the rumor you're spreading about Morton????? .......... or will you just continue to throw out allegations without any factual basis?
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Good feedback and debating on this site
"sixth; “groups like forest ethics” have been successful because of the desire to work with industry the public, and stakeholders in finding the middle ground and compromise necessary to find creative solutions to complex problems. Morton refuses to participate in the debate and continues to insist on removing all farms from the coast. no compromises no middle ground."
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/09/26/alexandra-mortons-heartland-institute/
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/bloom_county_gorbachev_zpsef7ac501.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/bloom_county_gorbachev_zpsef7ac501.jpg.html)
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Is this why Morton says nothing about the Atlantic feedlots in Washington or the fish farms in Alaska? Just asking.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/sites/default/files/Follow%20the%20money%20feature.pdf
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http://www.packard.org/what-we-fund/conservation-and-science/
Get yer facts in a pile a read something other than that self serving propaganda from the dirty fish crowd. I just looked up the #1 bad boy foundation for the dirty fish crowd and that foundation seems to do all sorts of good things. The web site you keep using as a referance is completely biased. But maybe you like biased :-\
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http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2013/04/25/TideTurningSalmonFarm/
I was especially shocked to see how little the feedlots contribute economically according to government agencies, not fish farm pravda. Back to fisherbawb and some self serving bologna. ;)
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http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2013/04/25/TideTurningSalmonFarm/
I was especially shocked to see how little the feedlots contribute economically according to government agencies, not fish farm pravda. Back to fisherbawb and some self serving bologna. ;)
Interesting article... thanks for posting: "the industry should be concerned that the jig is up for the defense upon which it traditionally falls back - namely, the "jobs" argument............. For instance, in 2011, according to DFO and Stats BC, sport fishing produced revenues of $925 million, contributing $325 million to BC's GDP and 8,400 direct jobs. Compare that with the Norwegian-dominated aquaculture industry, which produced $469 million in revenues (that's for all aquaculture, of which salmon farms are only one component). Salmon farms specifically contributed just $8.5 million to our GDP."
It does make more sense to have more folks out there trying to "catch" fish rather than having Norwegian owned feedlots polluting our waters and infecting our wild salmon.....
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/600614583283280/
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Someone should suggest to Gillis that he get his facts straight.
The real numbers can be found here:http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/0c4250f8-e4ee-45b9-b1fa-247ae1a98590/BritishColumbiasFisheriesandAquacultureSector2012Edition.pdf (http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/0c4250f8-e4ee-45b9-b1fa-247ae1a98590/BritishColumbiasFisheriesandAquacultureSector2012Edition.pdf).
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Someone should suggest to Gillis that he get his facts straight.
The real numbers can be found here:http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/0c4250f8-e4ee-45b9-b1fa-247ae1a98590/BritishColumbiasFisheriesandAquacultureSector2012Edition.pdf (http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Files/0c4250f8-e4ee-45b9-b1fa-247ae1a98590/BritishColumbiasFisheriesandAquacultureSector2012Edition.pdf).
Welcome back... and thanks for posting that. It appears that Gillis does have his facts straight, as he was obviously quoting from this same publication.
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Perhaps you should try reading it before declaring it supports Gillis and his misrepresentations.
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Surprise...surprise....AF not reading the whole article? Say it's not so!
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It sure looks like we are all full of propaganda TB. And this is why Morton will no longer see my donations.
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/04/24/deformities-more-lie-sa-and-european-viruses/
"Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
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I see the cheering section has arrived.... ;D
I did read the BC Government produced stats, Did you boys read it or are you just reading the links Fisherbob is providing?
Gillis statement: "For instance, in 2011, according to DFO and Stats BC, sport fishing produced revenues of $925 million, contributing $325 million to BC's GDP and 8,400 direct jobs."
BC government statement: "Sport fishing contributed $325.7 million to the province’s GDP in 2011, a slight decrease (-0.2%) from the previous year.
. Approximately 8,400 people were employed by the sport fishing industry in 2011, up from 8,000 in 2010.
. Sport fishing revenues were estimated at $936.5 million in 2011, up 0.8% over the 2010 value."
Gillis statement:"Salmon farms specifically contributed just $8.5 million to our GDP."
BC government statement: "Gross domestic product in the aquaculture industry fell 7.2% to $61.9 million in 2011, driven by a decline to $8.5 million in the salmon farming industry (-7.3%), ......."
It's a shame that we allow a business that contributes a measly $8.5 million to BC's GDP, while allowing it to destroy an industry that contributes $325 million to BC's GDP!
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As suggested, if you really want to understand the information being presented you need to read the paper, not just the summary. Apparently Gillis didn't feel the need to read it before pronouncing either and though you both proclaim to be experts on the industry, he looks the bigger fool since his pronouncements reach a much larger audience.
Top of page 32:
"Salmon farming, the largest industry within aquaculture, generated $58.5 million of GDP in 2011..........".
Also worth noting is that freshwater fisheries accounted for $400 million of that sport fishing total and 1/3 of the GDP attributable to sports fishing arises from non-angling activities so we aren't really talking about revenues of $925 million or GDP contribution of $325 million from saltwater related fishing.
As important as the numbers this particular report provides is an understanding of the methodology used to arrive at them. While numbers for aquaculture, seafood processing and capture fisheries are reasonably precise estimates based on contribution defined by specific industry classifications (ie. the GDP arising from the processing of the fish raised by the aquaculture industry are included in processing rather than attributed to aquaculture), the sports fishing industry is a rather nebulously defined sector and therefore the GDP contribution attributed to it is estimated. Those estimates include such things as non-angling related shopping, transportation, food services, accommodation and travel. Since these spinoff effects are not included in determining the GDP contribution of any of the other three industries in the sector, the comparison is not apples to apples and the numbers must be looked at in that context.
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No need to start throwing insults and causing another perfectly good thread to be shut down....
In most circles people would agree that the summary of a report summarizes the contents of the report. Gillis is absolutely in his rights to quote the summary of a BC stats report.
Neither he nor I are fools for doing so.....
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Gillis is absolutely in the wrong as are you to quote information he has neither confirmed nor given any thought to simply because it supports his point of view. Even a modicum of critical thinking would suggest that the number of $8.5 million GDP arising from an industry with revenues nearing $500 million is not realistic and requires further investigation. What makes it worse is that the correct information was available immediately following the obvious typo at the small cost of a bit more reading.
The obvious course of action when presented with proof of your error would be to acknowledge your error. Instead, you try to justify it...........
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Gillis is absolutely in the wrong as are you to quote information he has neither confirmed nor given any thought to simply because it supports his point of view. Even a modicum of critical thinking would suggest that the number of $8.5 million GDP arising from an industry with revenues nearing $500 million is not realistic and requires further investigation. What makes it worse is that the correct information was available immediately following the obvious typo at the small cost of a bit more reading.
The obvious course of action when presented with proof of your error would be to acknowledge your error. Instead, you try to justify it...........
I suggest you take your protests to the BC Stats office..... http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Contact/BCStatsPhoneList.aspx (http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Contact/BCStatsPhoneList.aspx)
The report was published in 2012... if there were "errors" in the report it highly likely that they would have been corrected by now. Besides if there was such an error, isn't it likely that someone from the feedlot industry would have picked it up by now????
I know the truth sometimes hurts....
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There is no need to complain to the statistics office. The correct information is available in the body of the report. The error is on YOUR part for not taking the trouble to read the report; for assuming that reading an executive summary would make you an expert and for making untrue claims without doing the required due diligence.
I don't care why you made the error; that is completely irrelevant. The relevant point is that you did and the claims you posted about salmon farming contribution are undeniably incorrect.
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If that's the end of your tantrum, let's turn this thread back to Fisherbob so he can continue to post content from sources you may feel are more reliable than BC Stats.....
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"Ottawa is sparing the aquaculture sector from austerity measures, extending for another year a program launched in 2008 aimed at enhancing “regulatory certainty” and “improving the conditions for a sustainable aquaculture sector.” The price tag for the renewal is $57.5 million over five years starting in 2013-14.
Mary Ellen Walling, executive director of the BC Salmon Farmers Association, welcomed the funding earmarked for aquaculture."
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Fisherbob and all tax paying Canadians are giving money to the Fish Farmers though. I would take that off any revenues that the fish farmers say their making.
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"Ottawa is sparing the aquaculture sector from austerity measures, extending for another year a program launched in 2008 aimed at enhancing “regulatory certainty” and “improving the conditions for a sustainable aquaculture sector.” The price tag for the renewal is $57.5 million over five years starting in 2013-14.
Mary Ellen Walling, executive director of the BC Salmon Farmers Association, welcomed the funding earmarked for aquaculture."
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Fisherbob and all tax paying Canadians are giving money to the Fish Farmers though. I would take that off any revenues that the fish farmers say their making.
Government handouts would be subtracted from the GDP generated by the feedlots, so perhaps that is the reason the GDP is a measly $8.5 million....
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If that's the end of your tantrum, let's turn this thread back to Fisherbob so he can continue to post content from sources you may feel are more reliable than BC Stats.....
Again you are trying to shift your responsibility.
The problem is not that the data from the stats office is unreliable. The problem is that you didn't bother to confirm your claims by reading the data they provided before you started spouting off and you aren't able to stand up and take responsibility for that.
It's not BC Stats that has a credibility problem.
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If that's the end of your tantrum, let's turn this thread back to Fisherbob so he can continue to post content from sources you may feel are more reliable than BC Stats.....
Thank you AF. The messengers best defense is knowing what is said of them. Trust should be there to the end. But not from me. Scroll up on this one.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=278#comments
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MORE PRAVDA!
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MORE PRAVDA!
You should know it all to well as I have found out donating to Mortons passion. :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda
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PEER REVIEWED SCIENCE PLEASE! not smear reviewed claptrap. I'm not gullible enough to bother with self serving emissions from the north end of a south bound cow.
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PEER REVIEWED SCIENCE PLEASE! not smear reviewed claptrap. I'm not gullible enough to bother with self serving emissions from the north end of a south bound cow.
From who would that be NB? Morton?
" In April 2013, Alexandra Morton’s name was removed from the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia. She is no longer a Professional Biologist."
https://www.cab-bc.org/membership-list
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So that means, as of April 2013 she automatically forgets everything she learned at biologists school. ::) You see sonny, I'm talking from first hand experience of the devastation a salmon pooplot brought to the Saddle Island area in my native home, not some self serving e-rag. The area used to be a prime lobster fishing area.Now- nothing. I come from a family of fisherman, know lots of fisherman from that area. I know what I'm talking about and have seen it with my own eyes. You don't and quote propaganda from the "industry", claiming it to be gospel truth. It isn't.
Got your FACTS straight?
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I would think this would defiantly question Morton's past and present work ethics. As for "You don't and quote propaganda from the "industry", claiming it to be gospel truth." I don't and I do not expect any one to take my posts as gospel truth, the same as I no longer take Morton's gospel as truth. :)
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/205471871.html
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I hope people are not dumb enough to vote for that Bob Bray clown.
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I hope people are not dumb enough to vote for that Bob Bray clown.
People do strange things troutbreath ... hell, I heard people were still donating to Ms. Morton :o go figure, lol!
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People do strange things troutbreath ... hell, I heard people were still donating to Ms. Morton :o go figure, lol!
Yes and some are silly enough to take industry rags like Salmon Farm Science as gospel, even though they may come across as intelligent individuals. Weird eh Dave?
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Interesting look at things.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/anti-salmon-farming-activist-morton-corrected-about-bc-salmon-farming-jobs
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Interesting look at things.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/anti-salmon-farming-activist-morton-corrected-about-bc-salmon-farming-jobs
I wonder if Grant Warkington, Communication Officer, Mainstream Canada and a certain poster on this board are either the same people or just similar people from the feedlot industry who are not reading the reports they use to support their arguments.....
Grant's link to the BC Stats report shows that the feedlot industry's contribution to BC's GDP is only $8.5 million, while Grant is using $62 million as the GDP number....
Perhaps as "communications officer" he just has a habit of exaggerating things.
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That certain poster is most likely someone well connected with the dirty fish group. Shocked if he was not. ;D
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The only thing that is shocking to me, is people that presume and take it as fact. Dream on boys. :)
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Get out and do it :)
http://www.timescolonist.com/monitor-getting-out-to-vote-is-easier-than-ever-1.146267
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Morton is too late trying to get donations from the US public. Going to be hard to dupe them.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/may13/salmon0513.htm
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/salmon-farm-diseases-were-quickly-reported-1.147096
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?pageId=76&article_id=99106
"What the activists don’t realize is that the relationship between two veterinarians is not much different than that between two lawyers- client confidentiality is a basic principle of importance to both professions. And in a recent article in the Times Colonist, Judith Lavoie explains that fish farmers in British Columbia have already released more information about the health of their fish than what they are legally required to do;"
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LOL, difference is that when lawyers have a "confidentiality" agreement, wild salmon are not dying.....
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Then it's past time all the information is released. These are OUR waters, not theirs.
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Then it's past time all the information is released. These are OUR waters, not theirs.
well said....
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LOL, difference is that when lawyers have a "confidentiality" agreement, wild salmon are not dying.....
One more time af ... what wild salmon are dying?
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/27/pol-aquaculture-regulations-before-cohen-commission-response.html
for Dave
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One more time af ... what wild salmon are dying?
using a quote from one of the feedlot boys......
Five minutes of your time with Google and the search function here would vastly increase your understanding of this .....
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using a quote from one of the feedlot boys......
LOL! Funny how that doesn't apply to EVERYONE.
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LOL! Funny how that doesn't apply to EVERYONE.
Yup .... :o ::)
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/27/pol-aquaculture-regulations-before-cohen-commission-response.html
for Dave
Old news (must be about time to recycle the PCB story or perhaps the sediment under the net pens or,or,or ... and today, my favourite to date, escaped Atlantics will compete with steelhead ::)) but just for the hell of it I'll ask for the last time, what wild salmon stocks are being killed by salmon farms? ... just one example from one of you 3 would be great.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Crosby
for Dave........on a wing and a prayer :)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Crosby
for Dave........on a wing and a prayer :)
Brilliant response troutbreath, appreciated.
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Troutbreath..... next time you respond to a feedlot boy, you'll need to do a Dr Morty and get your response approved before you post...
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and then watching foreign companies kill off our wild salmon with their feedlots.
Name one stock of wild salmon being harmed by salmon farms.
One more time af ... what wild salmon are dying?
Lol..... but you won't answer the question.
A simple answer and some support for the question I asked would have been sufficient ....
I appreciate that you ....would like to deflect the question
using a quote from one of the feedlot boys......
"Five minutes of your time with Google and the search function here would vastly increase your understanding of this"
Lol..... but you won't answer the question.
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So to get back to the point:
Why won't you answer Dave's question?
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perhaps the sediment under the net pens
Then maybe Dave you might take the time to tell me why lobster stocks are undeniably being compromised on the east coast? What is the root cause that areas around open net pens that used to be quite productive (for generations) are utterly barren now? Remember, lobsters are bottom feeders.Naw- wouldn't have anything to do with the "emissions" from the feedlot would it? I can't find any other reason.....
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Nova, you know I'm talking about BC here. I have never denied Atlantic salmon farms in areas with indigenous Atlantic stocks, including your stomping grounds, are not a serious issue to wild Atlantics, mainly through the loss of genetic diversity.
The topic is Atlantic's farmed in BC. Apples and oranges.
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Nova, you know I'm talking about BC here. I have never denied Atlantic salmon farms in areas with indigenous Atlantic stocks, including your stomping grounds, are not a serious issue to wild Atlantics, mainly through the loss of genetic diversity.
The topic is Atlantic's farmed in BC. Apples and oranges.
So you do concede there is a strong effect on fish and shellfish populations there. Now why, logically, doesn't or wouldn't that apply here? And the farms have no effect here? That doesn't make any sense at all. Apples and apples. Oranges and oranges.
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So you do concede there is a strong effect on fish and shellfish populations there. Now why, logically, doesn't or wouldn't that apply here? And the farms have no effect here? That doesn't make any sense at all. Apples and apples. Oranges and oranges.
In BC the government has muzzled the scientists and the feedlot industry has intimidated people like Dr Morty. When logic suggests that BC is no different than any other ocean in Norway, Scotland or the East coast of Canada they argue it's apples and oranges. It's called denial, and the motivation is money.
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In BC (Canada actually) the government has muzzled the scientists and the feedlot industry has intimidated people like Dr Morty (Dr Marty) When logic suggests that BC is no different than any other ocean in Norway, Scotland or the East coast of Canada they argue it's apples and oranges. It's called denial, and the motivation is money.
fixed it for you ;) Go back a post or so to read why BC is indeed different than Norway, Scotland or down East. Surely you didn't forget that biological thingy I mentioned?
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\When logic suggests that BC is no different than any other ocean in Norway, Scotland or the East coast of Canada they argue it's apples and oranges.
Spoken like a true bank boy. I know you are deathly afraid of Google, but maybe try looking up "ecosystem" and you may shed some light on how the North Sea differs from the Salish Sea.
In BC the government has muzzled the scientists and the feedlot industry has intimidated people like Dr Morty.
And yet when you get the opportunity to interact with government scientists online who are free to speak without "muzzling" and intimidation, you choose to ignore them.
PS- I did a google search to try to find some specific stocks that are dying due to fish farms. Seems like there's a lack of specifics, but lots of generalized bellyaching. Here's the best I could find for you. See what you can make of it ;)
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0060033#pbio-0060033-t001
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Can't buy that Dave. Poison is poison. I'm not sure poison recognizes the Atlantic from the Pacific. When an area is poisoned, it may never recover.But at least you recognize that the feedlots are putting out some wretched things in the water. You're waking up! ;)
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/salmon-farm-diseases-were-quickly-reported-1.147096
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Still waiting for Dave to explain why the farms are emitting toxins on the east coast and the toxins are magically not toxic to other species here.
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Still waiting for Dave to explain why the farms are emitting toxins on the east coast and the toxins are magically not toxic to other species here.
Read my post. I spoke about salmon farming in BC, nothing about toxins or poisons, whatever they are... perhaps you mean SLICE? Please explain what I am to explain.
To repeat, I do believe Atlantic salmon farms have impacted wild Atlantic stocks, mainly through escapees breeding with a meagre wild population. I also believe we on the west coast are in an enviable position for Atlantic salmon farming because here, that cannot happen.
For me to add more would be redundant because it's all been said before.
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Then Dave, tell me why the lobster near the Saddle Island site have disappeared completely. The area in question was there for generations and they always caught there, despite a lot of pressure on the stocks. Then a feedlot was sited and now- NOTHING. Put some logic to that.You feedlot boys are gonna love me soon as I'm going to be off work for a while getting a torn bicep fixed. Lots of time to debunk........ ;D
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And the plot thickens. This is turning out to be really good entertainment so far. :)
http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/news090513.php
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Just for Dave ;)
http://livingoceanssociety.blogspot.ca/2010/10/sea-lice-treatment-kills-adult-lobsters.html
http://nsapes.ca/10-reasons-why-premier-dexter-should-halt-open-pen-fish-farming
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/may/10/marine-harvest-salmon-farm-scottish-loch
http://responsibleaquaculture.wordpress.com/
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Lobsters in trouble? hmmm...
(http://mlcalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/USCanadaLandingsChart.jpg)
http://mlcalliance.org/2013/03/06/lobster-landings-in-maine-and-canada-going-up-up-up/ (http://mlcalliance.org/2013/03/06/lobster-landings-in-maine-and-canada-going-up-up-up/)
Lobster fishermen in trouble?
"Too much of good thing is plaguing Nova Scotia's lobster fishery. Thousands of pounds of live lobster are sitting in crates floating in the holding bays at Newell Lobster in Yarmouth. Fishermen have been hauling in a record harvest since the winter season began last week, but the large catches are flooding the market and driving down prices. The glut has pushed down the price paid at the wharf. This week it sits at $3 a pound.
Captains said at that price, they can't even pay the bills, but a call for an industry shut down to force prices up drew little support on the wharf on Wednesday. Plant supervisor Stephen Saulnier said both his workers and the market can't handle the catches from the first week of the season. The plant is running 24 hours a day, with workers weighing and grading lobster for export. About 80 per cent of the catch ends up on tables in the Unites States."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/12/05/ns-lobster-price.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/12/05/ns-lobster-price.html)
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Lobsters in trouble? hmmm...
(http://mlcalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/USCanadaLandingsChart.jpg)
http://mlcalliance.org/2013/03/06/lobster-landings-in-maine-and-canada-going-up-up-up/ (http://mlcalliance.org/2013/03/06/lobster-landings-in-maine-and-canada-going-up-up-up/)
Lobster fishermen in trouble?
"Too much of good thing is plaguing Nova Scotia's lobster fishery. Thousands of pounds of live lobster are sitting in crates floating in the holding bays at Newell Lobster in Yarmouth. Fishermen have been hauling in a record harvest since the winter season began last week, but the large catches are flooding the market and driving down prices. The glut has pushed down the price paid at the wharf. This week it sits at $3 a pound.
Captains said at that price, they can't even pay the bills, but a call for an industry shut down to force prices up drew little support on the wharf on Wednesday. Plant supervisor Stephen Saulnier said both his workers and the market can't handle the catches from the first week of the season. The plant is running 24 hours a day, with workers weighing and grading lobster for export. About 80 per cent of the catch ends up on tables in the Unites States."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/12/05/ns-lobster-price.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/12/05/ns-lobster-price.html)
See Novabonker...... It's ok for the feedlots to kill the lobsters, cause there are lots of them! ???
Hmmm, seems to be the same philosophy they apply to the wild salmon.
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See Novabonker...... It's ok for the fishermen to kill the lobsters even if they are paying for the privilege to do so, cause there are lots of them!
Hmmm, seems to be the same philosophy they apply to the wild salmon.
Fixed it for you.
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You can't twist it or spin it Abs- I'm not talking about the industry in general, but areas where the feedlots are sited. Nice try, but not gonna work.
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You can't make the case that lobsters are threatened by fish farms or anything else when each successive year brings a new record harvest of lobsters.
Unless, of course, the harvests are a product of industry pressure in the face of contradictory scientific opinion which would lead to the natural conclusion that the lobsters are being codded. Even if that weren't the case, the harvest is on a trajectory that will eventually land it there. Spiraling industry capacity chases ever-increasing harvests which chase ever-increasing industry capacity, pressure mounts to keep the over-capacity running, stocks start to respond to excessive harvests, competition for the declining numbers gets fiercer and over-harvesting climbs further until the whole thing collapses. It's not like we haven't seen the pattern before and in the same region.
But of course, we all know it's the fish farms fault.
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You can't make the case that lobsters are threatened by fish farms or anything else when each successive year brings a new record harvest of lobsters.
Read my post - I stated that the area around the feedlots weren't producing. Is it OK to crap on just one section of your lawn if the rest is green?
Unless, of course, the harvests are a product of industry pressure in the face of contradictory scientific opinion which would lead to the natural conclusion that the lobsters are being codded. Even if that weren't the case, the harvest is on a trajectory that will eventually land it there. Spiraling industry capacity chases ever-increasing harvests which chase ever-increasing industry capacity, pressure mounts to keep the over-capacity running, stocks start to respond to excessive harvests, competition for the declining numbers gets fiercer and over-harvesting climbs further until the whole thing collapses. It's not like we haven't seen the pattern before and in the same region.
And who was saying it's all good? The federal government. John Crosby, as I remember was in charge.
But of course, we all know it's the fish farms fault.
Good to see you're coming around
Repaired.
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But of course, we all know it's the fish farms fault.
Good to see you're coming around
....... and I mistakenly thought he was just being sarcastic..
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"Justice Bruce Cohen’s report, released in 2012 after years of investigation, clearly said there is no smoking gun when it comes to explaining what is causing Fraser River sockeye populations to vary."
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/salmon-farmers-association-says-bc-can-have-both-wild-salmon-and-farmed-salmon
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Aquaculture development in Canada. Starts on page 40.
http://www.resourcesquarterly.com/issue/2013/Summer/files/mobile/mobile.html#1
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Fisherbob your last link really says nothing. So why post it?
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Fisherbob your last link really says nothing. So why post it?
Are you kidding TB - That was his best post ever - it summed up all the pro feedlot arguments that make sense. ;D
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Are you kidding TB - That was his best post ever - it summed up all the pro feedlot arguments that make sense. ;D
Glad you liked it NB :). Here are three more for you to debunk. Btw I hope for your speedy recovery :). And that is no joke :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/new-blogs-salmon-facts-are-sacred-alexandra-morton
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Anything to make a good show.
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/05/15/dead-fish-in-the-parking-lot/
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If we could get the feedlots to provide viable fish for sampling then there would be no issue right.
Ok now go get a viable fish to do independent testing and see how far you get.
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Why just "farmfreshsalmon" as a superlative. Why not "brimmingwithtastychemicalsfreshsalmon".
just sayin
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Did Morton get it right ?
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8399387
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Did Morton get it right ?
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8399387
Fisherbob, do you have a link to what Morton wrote on May 8?
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Fisherbob, do you have a link to what Morton wrote on May 8?
Pretty sure it is this one Dave.
http://www.courierislander.com/opinion/letters/tools-of-the-trade-1.148246
Ian's response.
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8399387
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"Ian Roberts works for Marine Harvest in "communications and media" and so it's his job to refute the film sweeping across North America revealing his industry and its government handlers in a bad light."
If your buying into Mr Roberts unbiased opion, I'm selling Lions Gate bridge if your interested.
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"Ian Roberts works for Marine Harvest in "communications and media" and so it's his job to refute the film sweeping across North America revealing his industry and its government handlers in a bad light."
If your buying into Mr Roberts unbiased opion, I'm selling Lions Gate bridge if your interested.
Can I get a better deal if I donated to Morton's propaganda again? :)
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Pretty sure it is this one Dave.
http://www.courierislander.com/opinion/letters/tools-of-the-trade-1.148246
Ian's response.
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=8399387
Yup, that reads about right. Thanks Fb
Ms. Morton seems rather quiet since the night of the 14th ... sure she is busy conjuring up something interesting though :)
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Can I get a better deal if I donated to Morton's propaganda again? :)
Fisherbob, If I donate to a cause I don't expect anything in return except that my donation helped further that cause, however you seem to expect a deal or something in return personaly for your donation to the cause, above and beyond what any normal person would expect. I don't get your reasoning, it's like you are saying you did not recieve a personal return for your donation.
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When I donate to a cause I expect truth and honesty.
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Is eating "wild" Alaska salmon better for the environment and the resources used to farm them?
http://www.watershed-watch.org/publications/files/AKhatcheries.pdf
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When I donate to a cause I expect truth and honesty.
So you quote fish farm propaganda?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPuccvF_p3o
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2 touring old boys rugby clubs from Japan graced our club last week. I'm the social secretary (read cook) and I had a lot of folks to feed. What did they eat? Well, it wasn't easy, but I flat out refused to serve feedlot rubbish, so with a lot of work, I was able to dig up some lovely wild sockeye. Out of the 96 pieces I bbq'ed , there wasn't a scrap left. I talked , sort of, to some of of our honoured guests- they don't care much for farmed fish(ish).
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/RugbyJapanada_zps0cacafef.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/RugbyJapanada_zps0cacafef.jpg.html)
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2 touring old boys rugby clubs from Japan graced our club last week. I'm the social secretary (read cook) and I had a lot of folks to feed. What did they eat? Well, it wasn't easy, but I flat out refused to serve feedlot rubbish, so with a lot of work, I was able to dig up some lovely wild sockeye. Out of the 96 pieces I bbq'ed , there wasn't a scrap left. I talked , sort of, to some of of our honoured guests- they don't care much for farmed fish(ish).
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/RugbyJapanada_zps0cacafef.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/RugbyJapanada_zps0cacafef.jpg.html)
Gotta love it, more wild sockeye taken out of our rivers....lmao
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Troll caught number 1's. Beautiful, bright and tasty.Troll is the most ethical fishery. What should I have fed them because I sure wasn't going to serve up farm rubbish? (Didn't you buy some "over the fence"?)
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Troll caught number 1's. Beautiful, bright and tasty.Troll is the most ethical fishery. What should I have fed them
Hamburgers and hotdogs :) I agree with your thoughts on troll caught salmon but were these BC or Alaskan sockeye? Fresh or frozen? If these were indeed BC fish and fresh, most likely they would be early summers bound for upper Fraser River tributaries; all of these stocks are considered weak and are one of the reasons the institution of DFO's wild salmon policy is in limbo.
If they were Alaskan fish, well ... should have served hamburgers and hotdogs, IMO ;)
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maybe the were copper river fish outta alaska !
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Hamburgers and hotdogs :) I agree with your thoughts on troll caught salmon but were these BC or Alaskan sockeye? Fresh or frozen? If these were indeed BC fish and fresh, most likely they would be early summers bound for upper Fraser River tributaries; all of these stocks are considered weak and are one of the reasons the institution of DFO's wild salmon policy is in limbo.
If they were Alaskan fish, well ... should have served hamburgers and hotdogs, IMO ;)
They were BC fish Dave, individually frozen 6 ounce portions, vacuum packed from a wholesaler. One of the guys on our team sourced them as at this time of year the only fresh thing available is, well, you know - frankenfish. We asked what they wanted us to serve them and sockeye was the first choice. I'm looking forward to our Japanese tour in 2014. Wonder what they'll feed us.. ;)
(I'm hoping for Kobe beef)
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They were BC fish Dave, individually frozen 6 ounce portions, vacuum packed from a wholesaler. One of the guys on our team sourced them as at this time of year the only fresh thing available is, well, you know - frankenfish.
I wont buy Alaskan wild caught sockeye either for that reason. :) :). Good choice NB.
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Troll caught number 1's. Beautiful, bright and tasty.Troll is the most ethical fishery. What should I have fed them because I sure wasn't going to serve up farm rubbish? (Didn't you buy some "over the fence"?)
Yup
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Yup
And you question my ethics? Hilarious. :o
BTW - How's the ticker doing?
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Back to the facts.
http://tumblerridgenews.com/?p=10908
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Back to the facts.
http://tumblerridgenews.com/?p=10908
ah, but what does Marty know? :o
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It just gets dumber and dumber for Morton.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=303
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/when-activists-play-dumb-are-they-really-playing/
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It just gets dumber and dumber for Morton.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=303
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/when-activists-play-dumb-are-they-really-playing/
Ok, I'll pick apart the antis when I see something misleading, so to be balanced I have to do the same here. What exactly is that graph trying to tell us? What is the y-axis representing? Not pieces of fish? Not pounds? Tonnes? And the wild coho harvest is comparable to sockeye harvest? That thing doesn't add up.
Not a fan of misleading propaganda and half-facts from either side.
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Ok, I'll pick apart the antis when I see something misleading, so to be balanced I have to do the same here. What exactly is that graph trying to tell us? What is the y-axis representing? Not pieces of fish? Not pounds? Tonnes? And the wild coho harvest is comparable to sockeye harvest? That thing doesn't add up.
Not a fan of misleading propaganda and half-facts from either side.
Looks like it came from here.
http://www.npafc.org/new/publications/Annual%20Report/2011/Annual%20Report2011%20(web)/files/mobile/index.html#15
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Good pod cast with Morton and Marty. Why did Kiro not have an Atlantic grower from Washington on there as well if they are so worried about their wild salmon?
http://kiroradio.com/listen/9956634/
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Good pod cast with Morton and Marty. Why did Kiro not have an Atlantic grower from Washington on there as well if they are so worried about their wild salmon?
http://kiroradio.com/listen/9956634/
Great link Fb, and you're correct, a Washington State salmon farmer should have been included. It's 34 minutes folks but worth the time if you care about this stuff.
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Great link Fb, and you're correct, a Washington State salmon farmer should have been included. It's 34 minutes folks but worth the time if you care about this stuff.
Thank you Dave. It just gets more and more obvious that this is just American marketing propaganda since Washington farms Atlantic's in their own back yard yet are able to look out side their little box and point fingers at BC. I was so sucked in by Morton before.
http://kiroradio.com/listen/9956634/
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Washington waters clear of ISA.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may3013a/
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Washington waters clear of ISA.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may3013a/
Before you get too excited.
"Specific strains of the virus have caused a deadly disease in farm-raised Atlantic salmon. Outbreaks with significant losses have occurred in farmed Atlantic salmon in Maine, Eastern Canada, Chile and several European countries".
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Washington waters clear of ISA.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may3013a/
Is anyone but AlMo surprised ;)
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Before you get too excited.
"Specific strains of the virus have caused a deadly disease in farm-raised Atlantic salmon. Outbreaks with significant losses have occurred in farmed Atlantic salmon in Maine, Eastern Canada, Chile and several European countries".
And what has this to do with Pacific coast salmon ::)
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And what has this to do with Pacific coast salmon ::)
Many of us feel it is here already. :o
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-30/norway-reports-two-outbreaks-of-infectious-salmon-anaemia-virus.html
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Many of us feel it is here already. :o
No doubt it is but a non pathogenic strain,a strain endemic to this coast and possibly has been since the millions of Atlantic's were released here in attempts to start a sports fishery. If ISA (the disease, not the virus) was here on the Pacific coast there most likely would not be any Brown trout in the Cowichan River or a living net penned Atlantic salmon, something we all know AlMo desperately wants.
Posting anything about ISA, the disease, in Norway salmon farms, or Irish or Scottish or Maine or Nova Scotian or Newfoundland farms is irrelevant to what's happening here. What is relevant is the fact it is not in Washington State and has not been found in BC since farming Atlantic's began about 30 years ago.
Time for af to wade in I'm thinking ...
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Before you get too excited.
"Specific strains of the virus have caused a deadly disease in farm-raised Atlantic salmon. Outbreaks with significant losses have occurred in farmed Atlantic salmon in Maine, Eastern Canada, Chile and several European countries".
And these countries are still farming Atlantic's. that in its self is exciting. :) lessons were learned it seems.
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And these countries are still farming Atlantic's. that in its self is exciting. :) lessons were learned it seems.
Your really sounding like someone who gave money to Morton? :o
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Your really sounding like someone who gave money to Morton? :o
Thank you TB. You finally believe me. :) (you're btw) I would still be donating to Mortons cause if she would ever get something right. Really no better than the Mayan calander end of the world predictions. At least those predictions were funny. :)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=conspiracy%20theorist
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Good news. :)
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=99666
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Good news. :)
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=99666
You're not associated with fish farms yet you post pro-farm information the same day it is released?
Either you have no life or you're on an email distribution list for promoting fish farm articles.
My guess is that fish farm promotion is part of your job...
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You're not associated with fish farms yet you post pro-farm information the same day it is released?
Either you have no life or you're on an email distribution list for promoting fish farm articles.
My guess is that fish farm promotion is part of your job...
He is providing the same service for pro salmon farmers as Chris and alwaysfisn does for the antis ;)
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You're not associated with fish farms yet you post pro-farm information the same day it is released?
Either you have no life or you're on an email distribution list for promoting fish farm articles.
My guess is that fish farm promotion is part of your job...
What I appreciate about Fisherbob's posts is that he is able to say in one sentence what absolon and *steve take several paragraphs to say.....
Perhaps the feedlot industry is paying Fisherbob by the post, rather than by the word...... ???
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I love that one line in the article : Alexandra Morton, who recently was removed from the list of Registered Professional Biologists with the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia.
PLEASE someone, tell me this is true. Then she can stop with the whole "claiming to be a biologist" thing when she has no idea about anything she is doing. She can go back to her real job, journalism. That would be especially great news also, for the fact that if it were true, her publications would all get filtered out and we wouldn't need to hear more doom and gloom from her which never materializes.
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I love that one line in the article : Alexandra Morton, who recently was removed from the list of Registered Professional Biologists with the College of Applied Biology of British Columbia.
PLEASE someone, tell me this is true. Then she can stop with the whole "claiming to be a biologist" thing when she has no idea about anything she is doing. She can go back to her real job, journalism. That would be especially great news also, for the fact that if it were true, her publications would all get filtered out and we wouldn't need to hear more doom and gloom from her which never materializes.
I asked that question regarding her status to the CABBC ... this is the reply:
Good Morning Dave,
Alexandra Morton has chosen not to renew her membership of the College.
Linda Stordeur, RPBio
Registrar, College of Applied Biology
Phone: 250-383-3306 Fax:250-383-2400
There have been other RP Bios that complained about Morton's professionalism to the registrar so there may be some truth to the removal. Another question af can ask tomorrow, if he attends ;D
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I asked that question regarding her status to the CABBC ... this is the reply:
Good Morning Dave,
Alexandra Morton has chosen not to renew her membership of the College.
Linda Stordeur, RPBio
Registrar, College of Applied Biology
Phone: 250-383-3306 Fax:250-383-2400
There have been other RP Bios that complained about Morton's professionalism to the registrar so there may be some truth to the removal. Another question af can ask tomorrow, if he attends ;D
This is great news!
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She still has a Doctorate in Science:
http://www.sfu.ca/content/dam/sfu/ceremonies/HDRs/honorary-degrees/Citation-Morton-web.pdf
So she choose not to pay dues to remain a member - her membership was not "removed".
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This is great news!
You boys are desperate!
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It's interesting that in spite of Dave being retired, he still seems to think he is qualified to comment on fish science....
As you are implying about Alexandra, perhaps he isn't aware that he is no longer "qualified" to comment on these matters..
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It's interesting that in spite of AF being a banker, he still seems to think he is qualified to comment on fish science....
Fixed for ya. Lol
I think I'll trust the fella who worked with salmon most or all of his career until retirement.
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He's not a banker.
He has a franchise that sells mutual funds.
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She still has a Doctorate in Science:
http://www.sfu.ca/content/dam/sfu/ceremonies/HDRs/honorary-degrees/Citation-Morton-web.pdf
So she choose not to pay dues to remain a member - her membership was not "removed".
O yea... I forgot, she has a doctorate which she didn't even earn...
Look at the link.. honorary degrees.
It's sad that so many people jump on the back of someone with no scientific background that got something handed to her because she did work with the university.
Like I said, take a quick look at her "sampling techniques" out in the parking lot and out on the river. She has no regard for proper procedure and it's a joke to the scientific community. Tests and samples should be taken at a lab, not on a bloody cutting board down at the river, being used for multiple fish.
She should stay in journalism... everyone at this point knows she is damn good at fear-mongering and spreading around non-backed claims which always eventually become a laughing stock. She is definitely good at her first job (and what her real degree is in), I'll give her that.
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Well she sure did a number on fishfarmerbob. He should sue her to for help getting his life back together. :)
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Well she sure did a number on fishfarmerbob. He should sue her to for help getting his life back together. :)
You are funny TB. Lol. Do you read what you write before you post? I know the lingual from donating and listening to Morton and her sheeple over the years. :) to bad she never had the science to back her up.
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One for the farmers. Do not read this sheeple, you will not like it at all.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
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One for the farmers. Do not read this sheeple, you will not like it at all.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
Awesome, but she wont listen, as long as she keeps getting that salary for doing absolutely nothing from sheeple shes quite happy.
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One for the farmers. Do not read this sheeple, you will not like it at all.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
Love the comments :D More things to ask her tonight, haha ..
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One for the farmers. Do not read this sheeple, you will not like it at all.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
Written by the farmers and the PAP gang from here no less. ;D ;D ;D
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One for the farmers. Do not read this sheeple, you will not like it at all.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
Meanwhile, Farmer Bawb frantically roots around for some self serving baloney from Fishfarmpravda.
Seriously Bob- try posting some info that isn't rocket polishing. All I need to do is look at the sources you quote and see bovine scatological matter put out by the disinformation arm of the Ministry Of Fish Farm propaganda.
Try some peer reviewed science.
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Farmer Bawb's local.....
(this a joke and only a joke. No fish were injured in the making of this joke. If this joke lasts longer than 4 hours, call your doctor.)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/500x528xturdPolishersUnionjpgpagespeedicETk4MMPD8s_zpsf2401eb2.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/500x528xturdPolishersUnionjpgpagespeedicETk4MMPD8s_zpsf2401eb2.jpg.html)
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Farmer Bawb's local.....
(this a joke and only a joke. No fish were injured in the making of this joke. If this joke lasts longer than 4 hours, call your doctor.)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/500x528xturdPolishersUnionjpgpagespeedicETk4MMPD8s_zpsf2401eb2.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/500x528xturdPolishersUnionjpgpagespeedicETk4MMPD8s_zpsf2401eb2.jpg.html)
That was an awesome joke NB :). That would fit Mortons line of work per"fact"ly. I will not donate to that union any more unless she can give me change for a penny. That is just a joke sheeple :)
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The point being, you can trot out those turds from your propaganda specialists, polish them as much as you like, but in the end you still have a turd.
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But its a shiny turd????
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Still a turd. ;)
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The point being, you can trot out those turds from your propaganda specialists, polish them as much as you like, but in the end you still have a turd.
I know what your point was NB. It fits Morton's science to a T. Please feel free to get back to me any time when one of hers turns into gold. :)
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=340
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Get your polish out and get to work on that last "nugget" link....... ::)
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Get your polish out and get to work on that last "nugget" link....... ::)
Hehe NB, I stopped donating to Morton when I used up the last of my polish on her bull. Do you have any extra or do you need more? :). Btw I hope your surgery goes well and heals fast NB. :)
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For your next challenge, after your done with the buffer and cut polish on that last infomercial, - find where I reference Ms. Morton. DIG DEEP!
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For your next challenge, after your done with the buffer and cut polish on that last infomercial, - find where I reference Ms. Morton. DIG DEEP!
I do not need to dig NB because you didn't, I did. What is your point? I was very sincere when I said "Btw I hope your surgery goes well and heals fast NB", wether you believe me or not is up to you.
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And thank you for the well wishes. I didn't and don't doubt the sincerity. I don't agree with a point of view, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't sit down and have a coffee with you. I have friends, however disillusioned I may think they are and they of me, that sit on the opposite side of the fence that I do.
However
My point was that common sense dictates what my beliefs are. I've seen first hand the devastation introduction of foreign species can have on the environment. I've also seen the same devastation that a poorly done native species can also wreak on the environment. I've also seen governments and the feedlot companies, well, let's just say be very economical with the truth when it comes to some of their "outcomes".(Think John Van Dongen warning of inspections, the government reducing or eliminating fines for transgressions, then I looked up political "donations" from these companies and the way they brought the government around to their way of thinking) There isn't enough inspection and oversight and when something goes awry, it just gets swept under the rug.
I don't need a bunch of self serving propaganda to see the forest and I have enough common sense to reach what I consider to be a logical conclusion, without someone or some entity feeding me what accumulates under a feedlot.
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http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/salmon-confidential-fish-water_1100.html
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http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/salmon-confidential-fish-water_1100.html
Thanks, it would be nice if Paul T. would give his full name or is it Fisherbob. ;D ;D
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Thanks, it would be nice if Paul T. would give his full name or is it Fisherbob. ;D ;D
Thanks for the compliment Chris, but no it would not be me who wrote this.
http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/salmon-confidential-fish-water_1100.html
I did not write this one either. :)
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2013/130513.htm
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This fish farmer paul t just "cherry picks" the same and very old defense that the dirty fish crowd cling to like sea lice on the backside of dirty fish that hasn't had enough SLICE.
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This fish farmer paul t just "cherry picks" the same and very old defense that the dirty fish crowd cling to like sea lice on the backside of dirty fish that hasn't had enough SLICE.
Good for you T.B. Now that was an original come back that I did not expect from you. Lol :).
http://www.canadiancontent.net/commtr/salmon-confidential-fish-water_1100.html
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2013/130513.htm
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Don't give a fib if you cant take it. :)
http://salmonconfidential.com/2013/06/03/the-final-15-and-the-films-second-biggest-fib/
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Is that your home page fibfarmerbob ? ;D Seems like you post a link to every article and link from there.
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Is that your home page fibfarmerbob ? ;D Seems like you post a link to every article and link from there.
You are not embarrassed by what I link TB. All sheeple can do is speculate that I am a farmer or these are my pages or I wrote them now LOL. I am sure I would still stand behind Morton if she was honest. She just spreads the virus called fear and passes around the collection plate. I got up after falling off the turnip truck and moved on.
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Anyone who doesn't agree with you and your nuggets of self serving propaganda is a "sheeple"? My way or the highway? ::)
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Anyone who doesn't agree with you and your nuggets of self serving propaganda is a "sheeple"? My way or the highway? ::)
I picked that strategy up when I was following Morton. Funny how that part stuck to me isnt it lol. Btw I was not the one that started messing with peoples names on here now was I. I never expect anyone to believe anything I post. Just something to think about. but it sure appears to tick off some sheeple. :)
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All I can see in your "nuggets" are pieces of corn Farmfisherbawb.However I don't lump all the ill informed in any particular peg hole.
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All I can see in your "nuggets" are pieces of corn Farmfisherbawb.However I don't lump all the ill informed in any particular peg hole.
Lol. Need I say more. :)
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Lol. Need I say more. :)
Fine by me if you don't. Maybe we should take a poll....
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More good news. :)
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/-1800661.htm
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This surveillance initiative is led by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in partnership with many organizations, including the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the Province of British Columbia, First Nations groups, the aquaculture industry and the fishing and processing industry.
Pfffft -
This surveillance initiative is led by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) XL hamburgers for everyone!in partnership with many organizations, including the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Biggest cheerleaders of feedlots the Province of British Columbia, Yeah, how much do they donate to the Libs? Think Van Dongen's tenure with the feedlots First Nations groups, Not very many, especially those with a vested interest in wild fish the aquaculture industry Noted for their honesty ( reaches over and turns off sarcasm button) and the fishing and processing industry ( Yeah, right - No dogs in this fight).
Back to the drawing board with you!
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I am surprised to see you say that after raving about the wild sockeye you had at your Rugby banquet. How is the taste in your mouth now NB? :)
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/-1800661.htm
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This surveillance initiative is led by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) in partnership with many organizations, including the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the Province of British Columbia, First Nations groups, the aquaculture industry and the fishing and processing industry.
Pfffft -
This surveillance initiative is led by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) XL hamburgers for everyone!in partnership with many organizations, including the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Biggest cheerleaders of feedlots the Province of British Columbia, Yeah, how much do they donate to the Libs? Think Van Dongen's tenure with the feedlots First Nations groups, Not very many, especially those with a vested interest in wild fish the aquaculture industry Noted for their honesty ( reaches over and turns off sarcasm button) and the fishing and processing industry ( Yeah, right - No dogs in this fight).
Back to the drawing board with you!
Just who would you believe? AlMo ?? ;D
Sure does sound like a conspiracy allright ...
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More good news. :)
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/-1800661.htm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/621468611197877/
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http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/wild-anadromous-salmonids/eng/1370960326837/1370960742286
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Lets face it old guys like Dave and Fibsterbob can wolf down as much dirty fish as there bowel can manage, and not worry about shortening their lifespan. I'm more worried about younger people eating this crap.
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I'm more worried about younger people eating this crap.
And I'm more worried about what I see younger people packing out of places like 7-Elevens's or KFC, Burger King's or McD's.
Appreciate your concerns about my bowels though ... nice ;)
So, you figure Fisherbob to be an old guy like me? Mayhaps, but I think you're guessing.
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Well then old before his time. Bob is like a gentle reminder to get the colon scoped out though. ;) He's probably a four peperoni a day guy, than someone eating farmed fish all week. :-\
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I realized that everyone wants to focus on aquaculture, but one thing I noticed from this study was that it appeared to answer some questions following Cohen's criticism of DFO enhancement facilities and the possible release of endemic diseases. The results from this study appear to be favourable for those facilities which is good news for everyone. Hopefully, this type of surveillance continues.
Another thing to note was that one of the labs utilized for the study was the lab at the Pacific Biological Station (i.e. called one of the super labs by anti-fish farms critics and workplace of Dr. Kristi Miller....You remember....proclaimed "Scientist of the Year" by anti-fish farm critics). However, I guess PBS is part of this conspiracy now because the results of the CFIA study do not sit well with the anti-fish farm crowd. I guess we have to include the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife also in this conspiracy as their recent results appear to concur with those in Canada now. Lets not forget the First Nation groups who contributed their catch to the CFIA surveillance study. I guess they are part of the conspiracy also.....although they donated fish to Ms Morton's "surveillance" program also....but don't tell the antis that. Not many FN involved? Hmmm...here is an example of how many members with the UFFCA:
http://www.uffca.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=63
Another thing I noticed was the that CFIA did a better job at being forthcoming and transparent than Ms Morton. Not only did they post an Executive Summary and press release, but if you noticed, a complete text of the report (which includes methods on how samples were collected, handled, transported and stored....not erroneous interpretations of results to grab headlines) is available upon request. On the other hand, Ms Morton has been doing her "surveillance" since the end of the Cohen, tracking European viruses apparently and has produced no report on her activities, but is front and center in the media (and YouTube) making accusations against the BC aquaculture industry, DFO and the BC government. Funny how the big, bad government people are more transparent than the "saviours" of wild fish who preach about being concerned about the muzzling of scientists, transparency, cover-ups, corruption and good science.
In Ms Morton's May 23rd blog post, she states:
It is very important that the debate about whether European viruses are spreading from Atlantic salmon feedlots into the Pacific and whether they are causing wild salmon populations to decline to be open and transparent.
Instead of focusing on names and personalities as a reason for not engaging with people with an opposite opinion perhaps Ms Morton should quit make excuses and start following her own advice in the above quote. For instance, start with publishing her own methods and results in the same open format as the CFIA did today (and the WDFW did last week). At the moment, it appears as though the one hiding things is Ms Morton.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/wild-anadromous-salmonids/eng/1370960326837/1370960742286
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Nibs liked your sheep dropping off a cliff post, called it your best, and it was a beauty but I think this one deserves serious consideration :)
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Nibs liked your sheep dropping off a cliff post, called it your best, and it was a beauty but I think this one deserves serious consideration :)
Yup, Stevey is kinda like the current government...... instead of addressing the issues they're trying to change the focus.
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Yup, Stevey is kinda like the current government...... instead of addressing the issues they're trying to change the focus.
You are kinda like Morton....anyone who disagrees with you or doesn’t directly support the cause of wild salmon saviours is complicit in a grand conspiracy....and when science fails to support your emotions it is best to create distractions.
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Just who would you believe? AlMo ?? ;D
Sure does sound like a conspiracy allright ...
Look at the list Dave. Do you believe every thing that gets uttered by these paragons of truth and honesty? How many times have they been caught spreading bovine scatology? Are you that gullible? I have my own mind- once I get lied to , I don't trust again. If you're unable to find anything related to said bovine emissions, try Google. And then tell me again why I should trust or believe anything they trot out.
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Look at the list Dave. Do you believe every thing that gets uttered by these paragons of truth and honesty? How many times have they been caught spreading bovine scatology? Are you that gullible? I have my own mind- once I get lied to , I don't trust again. If you're unable to find anything related to said bovine emissions, try Google. And then tell me again why I should trust or believe anything they trot out.
That is exactly how I feel about Morton these days NB. Now we have something in common. :)
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Yup, Stevey is kinda like the current government...... instead of addressing the issues they're trying to change the focus.
Changing the focus??? I think you are the one whose vision is blurred. The lab at PBS, the one AlMo wanted used for her samples, did not find anything. For a disease that was apparently so prevalent, strange that it didn't show up.
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Summer has begun and the propaganda for the Alaska farmed salmon has started.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/summer-season-welcomes-wild-salmon-and-shameless-promotion-of-it/
Also in the getting facts right news.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/what-sea-lice-and-what-farmed-salmon-feed-salmon-facts-are-sacred-blogs
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/canada%E2%80%99s-isa-reference-laboratory-loses-oie-designation
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The best line was Chicken Little from Echo Bay ;D
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one lab to test all the salmon in the world....wow and you thought hospital wait times were bad.
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http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/bug-hunters-gone-wild-and-now-exposed-youll-understand-read-on/
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http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/bug-hunters-gone-wild-and-now-exposed-youll-understand-read-on/
Wonder how many people and organizations are ruing their donations to Ms. Morton and her rapidly spiralling downward cause? And as mentioned in the article, how much has this woman and her near shamanistic followers cost Canadian and US taxpayers?
Amazingly though, I bet some people reading this will still support her and the likes of Don Staniford ... best we can hope is those people are past breeding age ;)
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Wonder how many people and organizations are ruing their donations to Ms. Morton and her rapidly spiralling downward cause? And as mentioned in the article, how much has this woman and her near shamanistic followers cost Canadian and US taxpayers?
Amazingly though, I bet some people reading this will still support her and the likes of Don Staniford ... best we can hope is those people are past breeding age ;)
Why such a hate on for Morton? How exactly has she hurt you? Do you have investments in the feedlot business and you are angry that they aren't doing all that well? Or is it that you have been so brain washed by your exposure to the feedlot industry that you can't see the big picture?
If it wasn't for the efforts of this very dedicated lady the government wouldn't be making any effort to save the wild salmon. If it wasn't for her efforts the feedlot industry would be making no efforts to clean up their act. If it wasn't for her efforts, like you, the general public would just be accepting the argument that it's too late for the wild salmon....
I'm surprised at your outlook considering what your vocation was..... :o
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If it wasn't for the efforts of this very dedicated lady the government wouldn't be making any effort to save the wild salmon. If it wasn't for her efforts the feedlot industry would be making no efforts to clean up their act. If it wasn't for her efforts, like you, the general public would just be accepting the argument that it's too late for the wild salmon....
I see you are looking out side the box now and see there have been changes for the better over the years like I Have AF. Good for you. :) I do not think the general public will ever give up on wild salmon like they have given up on American born Morton spending Canadian money. All I see now is Canadian funding cut from where it is needed to save wild salmon to cover Mortons media circus drama acts. Millions :(
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I see you are looking out side the box now and see there have been changes for the better over the years like I Have AF. Good for you. :) I do not think the general public will ever give up on wild salmon like they have given up on American born Morton spending Canadian money. All I see now is Canadian funding cut from where it is needed to save wild salmon to cover Mortons media circus drama acts. Millions :(
Care to show us ignoramus exactly where she's cost us millions? Or do you keep that information in the same box as the gazillions you (allegedly) donated Fishfarmerbawb? How long have you been a fiction writer? ;D
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Care to show us ignoramus exactly where she's cost us millions? Or do you keep that information in the same box as the gazillions you (allegedly) donated Fishfarmerbawb? How long have you been a fiction writer? ;D
Sorry were you trying to say some thing NB? You will have to speak up LOL. :)
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/bug-hunters-gone-wild-and-now-exposed-youll-understand-read-on/
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Oops my bad. :)
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/bug-hunters-gone-wild-and-now-exposed-youll-understand-read-on/
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Sounds like you found some new friends Fishfibfarmerbawb. Have an extra helping of that "crap science".
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Sounds like you found some new friends Fishfibfarmerbawb. Have an extra helping of that "crap science".
I expected nothing more from you T.B. from being from your side of the fence not long ago. Its tough when there is no science from Morton and you can not step out of the small box that she gave us. :(
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From my side of the fence? More like your side of the fish pen. :o
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From my side of the fence? More like your side of the fish pen. :o
Keep on with your dreaming TB. Maybe some day in your dreams Morton may be right on something. Not sure what the colour of the sky is in your dream but I am just happy I stopped donating to your dream. What a waste of money that went no where to help wild salmon in BC. :)
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So tell me fishfarmerbawb - How much money or effort have the feedlots put in for wild salmon conservation or are the discretionary budgets topped out with money donated to the ruling parties to curry favour?
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So tell me fishfarmerbawb - How much money or effort have the feedlots put in for wild salmon conservation or are the discretionary budgets topped out with money donated to the ruling parties to curry favour?
Just because I no longer follow Morton's myths, you assume I am a fish farmer. I guess that is what Morton's sheeple do best when dog science fails. Do your own leg work. There is something called google. :)
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Courageous non answer ::). I expected as much from a fish farmer or someone who has no legs to stand on and no data to back up a spurious argument based on nothing but self serving propaganda put forth by the feedlots. Sorry about asking what is obviously a very embarrassing question to which your very flaccid reply proves you don't have any courage to your "convictions". RUN AND HIDE! THE BAD MAN IS ASKING HARD QUESTIONS!
Or, it was Sweet Fannie Adams - all our extra dough goes to the ruling party to curry favour.
C'mon Bawb - you can do better.
And again little buddy - Check my posts for the TIMES I'VE REFERRED TO MS. MORTON- DOESN'T EXIST.
Here ya go - you need these
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/collegehumora69d165dec9bf4fa8a49930b6f0f33d5_zpscff17ff6.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/collegehumora69d165dec9bf4fa8a49930b6f0f33d5_zpscff17ff6.jpg.html)
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That was sure long winded NB. All you have to do is step out of you small negative box to see some positive. Do you need me to hold your hand on this one? Simply google fish farmers help salmon enhancement. :). There seems to be more positive to farming than Morton wanted me to know.
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Old fish tubs that weren't any use to them any more, less money than they gave to the government cheerleaders, and that's about it. :o
STANDING O!
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Even your cherry picking of a few tubs is far more than what American born Morton has done. :)
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When are you going to get off the Morton campaign? I don't quote her and the above info I posted came from the first 2 pages of Google search. All self congratulatory self back patting.
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When are you going to get off the Morton campaign? I don't quote her and the above info I posted came from the first 2 pages of Google search. All self congratulatory self back patting.
Dont hurt your arm patting yourself on the back for that one. :). Still using the old comebacks from when I trusted Morton lol. :)
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http://www.callandermcdowell.co.uk/relaks612.htm
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More Pravda please!
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I thought it was more interesting than the guano Morton puts out. :)
http://www.callandermcdowell.co.uk/relaks612.htm
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I thought it was more interesting than the guano Morton puts out. :)
http://www.callandermcdowell.co.uk/relaks612.htm
"Whats guano?"
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The secret answer (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=guano)
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The secret answer (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=guano)
Did you forget to log into the forum under your Fisherbob handle?
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I only use that one when you are signed in as Novabonker.
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Did you forget to log into the forum under your Fisherbob handle?
;D ;D
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I only use that one when you are signed in as Novabonker.
????????????
Go to the HST thread to see our differing views, and then read this piece- peer reviewed, not propaganda from the feedlots.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.3.full
And much more feedlot "Mythbusters" to come. Peer reviewed, not self serving bovine scatology ;)
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????????????
Go to the HST thread to see our differing views.....
I'm confident that you'll eventually come around to my views on HST....
I've noticed that when Absolon disappears from the forum, Fisherbob shows up, and then vice versa. Is it too much to hope that both of them disappear at the same time?
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Sorry TB, or is it NB today? It is all junk science. You should be happy with this news. :)
http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/fp-comment/blog.html?b=opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/17/junk-science-week-this-science-is-fishy
This one will be harder for you to understand but its a good read. :)
http://m.rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/367/1596/1770.full
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????????????
Go to the HST thread to see our differing views, and then read this piece- peer reviewed, not propaganda from the feedlots.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.3.full
And much more feedlot "Mythbusters" to come. Peer reviewed, not self serving bovine scatology ;)
Hey, I am glad you are posting some literature. Here is some for you also - from the same journal:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790b.full
Mathematical models are not taboo per se, but they come with risks because they are dependent on what information you put into them and they are based on certain underlying assumptions. You still need to look at what is happening outside of the mathematical world - on the spawning grounds. How are pink salmon doing now?
Here is some more:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10641260801937131#.UcvXwmprbIU
http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gdmarty/2010PNAS-Marty-etalSeaLicePaper.pdf
You might want to check out pink salmon escapements on the odd and even year in that area for the last 30 or 40 years and see how they have done over the long term - before and after salmon farming.
Here is one I thought you would like (Ms Morton never references this in her posts. Why is that?)
http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sealice_2011_ices_morton.pdf
Here is another one that I have posted numerous times, but antis do not like it (Read Volume 2: Chapters 4 and 5):
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/FinalReport/
What did Cohen conclude about sea lice in relation to the decline of Fraser Sockeye? If you read those Chapters you will find what he said.
For a larger, big picture view try reading some literature from the North Pacific Anadromous Fisheries Commission (Warning: This requires the reader to have an open mind. Try your best, NB):
http://www.npafc.org/new/pub_technical8.html
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The secret answer (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=guano)
;D
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some good articles gentlemen..... have there been any studies/papers regarding potential virus mutation? specifically the ones that are present in atlantic stocks.
I've read on here that ISA is present but has no effect on the pacific stocks... so basically has anyone looked into the possibility of it eventually effecting pacific salmon.
I come across this type of info on google. but nothing like a peer reviewed paper.
"The virus was found in two of 48 juvenile sockeye salmon collected as part of a long-term study of sockeye salmon led by Simon Fraser University professor Rick Routledge. "It is certainly possible that this disease may be benign for Pacific salmon, but I still don't rest easy because it was initially benign for Atlantic salmon and it mutated," he said Tuesday.
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some good articles gentlemen..... have there been any studies/papers regarding potential virus mutation? specifically the ones that are present in atlantic stocks.
I've read on here that ISA is present but has no effect on the pacific stocks... so basically has anyone looked into the possibility of it eventually effecting pacific salmon.
I come across this type of info on google. but nothing like a peer reviewed paper.
"The virus was found in two of 48 juvenile sockeye salmon collected as part of a long-term study of sockeye salmon led by Simon Fraser University professor Rick Routledge. "It is certainly possible that this disease may be benign for Pacific salmon, but I still don't rest easy because it was initially benign for Atlantic salmon and it mutated," he said Tuesday.
This may help you with the links in it.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
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This may help you with the links in it.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
This is such BS.
It's like saying "We searched the suspect's house and didn't find stolen money so therefore he cannot be the thief".
Just because they haven't found ISA so far in testing, it doesn't mean that the original testing was "false positive".
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And just because you've never actually seen one doing it doesn't mean that pigs can't fly....
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2011-01-28-pigshavewings3.jpg)
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And just because you've never actually seen one doing it doesn't mean that pigs can't fly....
(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2011-01-28-pigshavewings3.jpg)
I think I'm starting to understand you a bit more. Your use of mythical characters to illustrate a point you are trying to make probably indicates the books you are using to do your research.
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(http://www.fishandfly.com/files.php?file=photos/brown_hooked_392301729.jpg)
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/
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http://www.aquatichealth.net/node/80790
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http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/naturally
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Here's a thought farmfisherbawb - instead of posting links to lead to self serving tripe, why not think on your own? Pravda links aren't working as anyone with 2 active brain cells can see them as PR.
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Getting facts straight.
http://inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/statement-2013-07-05/eng/1373038790217/1373041710849
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Sounds like their trying to get up to speed with the testing for ISA which they haven't been doing so far. :-\
hope your enjoying some farmed fresh salmon this weekend bawb. ;D
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Get back to me when Morton gets it right TB, AF,NB or who ever you logged in as. It's bin nice chattin with ya. :)
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Get back to me when Morton gets it right TB, AF,NB or who ever you logged in as. It's bin nice chattin with ya. :)
going back to the farm ::)
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going back to the farm ::)
What has Morton been right on TB? The tooth fairy makes more sense lol. :)
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What has Morton been right on TB? The tooth fairy makes more sense lol. :)
Sounds strange dat. Have you been feeding under the net pen again? ;D
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Sounds strange dat. Have you been feeding under the net pen again? ;D
Some how I knew you would not be able to answer a very simple question. Keep on steaming the dung beetle course my friend. :)
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no links that turn the poop below the net pens into chocolate sundaes farmfisherbawb?
This one? http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33170.0Or are the FACTS just too overwhelming and unreputable so you and the farm hands lack the moral conviction or truth to respond?
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FYI NB. :)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/video-eng.html
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Sounds like more poop in your boot fishfarmerboop. :) Empty words from the DFO who missmanage the fishery for us.
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Lots of poop coming from your mouth, TB. Again, why don't some of you gentlemen educate yourselves.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/benth-eng.html
All salmon farms in BC must follow a regulated program of benthic monitoring and reporting. This involves sampling and video monitoring - not the edited YouTube videos many of you fear mongers watch. Other industrial activities in and around water likely have much more impact. Where are the YouTube videos on those? How regulated are those in comparison? What measure do those industries take to reduce impact. Impact is never zero and no one never claimed it was.
Come to think of it wasn't this the thread where Novabonker was going to unleash his "Mythbusters" on me after finding this:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.3.full
I don't remember getting a response to my post, Novabonker. Did you hit a glich in your "Mythbuster" quest?
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Sorry shoeswap, I'm just an ignernt redneck and unable to make much sense of that bafflegab- but after watching the "mis-steps" that constantly plague DFO , I have no trust in them. No lab would want to repudiate their "findings" as it leads to the path of de - certification.
Would you eat a clam or a crab that came from that pile of $*it? OH! Wait a minute! Nothing can live under those poop piles.
BTW - Nice try on pointing to another direction with "Other industries are WORSE!" Must be running out of talking points...... ::)
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Hate to throw you under the netpen again Shoe, but taxpayers are shoveling out something like 59 million to get these guys to make adequate reports on what their polluting. Check yer boots buddy.
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Sorry shoeswap, I'm just an ignernt redneck and unable to make much sense of that bafflegab- but after watching the "mis-steps" that constantly plague DFO , I have no trust in them. No lab would want to repudiate their "findings" as it leads to the path of de - certification.
Would you eat a clam or a crab that came from that pile of $*it? OH! Wait a minute! Nothing can live under those poop piles.
BTW - Nice try on pointing to another direction with "Other industries are WORSE!" Must be running out of talking points...... ::)
I guess I was hoping too much for an intelligent response from you that didn't contain the usual rhetoric and deflection that is the hallmark of fear mongers like yourself. Oh well...it wasn't a big surprise. When you get around to threatening to unleash those "Mythbusters" (you remember the ones in this thread you going to use, but backed down after I called your bluff) on me let me know.
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Hate to throw you under the netpen again Shoe, but taxpayers are shoveling out something like 59 million to get these guys to make adequate reports on what their polluting. Check yer boots buddy.
If that is how you throw then you need to try a bit harder. Monitoring is only part of where those funds are directed towards, TB. Since 2010, the BC fish farming industry has been regulated under the Federal Fisheries Act. Do you remember the series of events that led to the industry here to be regulated by the feds and the Fisheries Act? Any idea, TB? Well, those regulations are geared to wild fisheries - not aquaculture, so it makes more sense to have regulations that actually address aquaculture. I do concede that I wish there was more funds for other things DFO does, but the actions of a certain activist caused a chain reaction that ended up with regulatory change being a necessity now.
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" but the actions of a certain activist caused a chain reaction that ended up with regulatory change being a necessity now."
that statement is so under the net pen buddy ;D
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Sorry to disappoint you Steveroni.......... but not too much. You see young feller, I watched DFO , through willful ignorance or outright apathy decimate fisheries on the east coast, so my faith in anything they dream up is well, minimal. The fallout devastated families( mine being one of them), changed communities, and altered the fabric of a society. Some well marbled derriere, sitting in Ottawa that never spent a day on the sea fishing that pens a "report" filled with $50 words means squat to me. I wouldn't and don't trust DFO any further than I can pull BC Place. You don't need a boat load of diplomas to see that introduction of a foreign species, pooping, antibiotics, and slice along with God knows what else on a concentrated route is going to have a bad ending. Common sense, Steve.
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Fish farming seems to me to be the result of over fishing of a non sustainable wild fishery by greedy people. The Gov stepped in to late. :(
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Get the facts right Don.
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/fair-comment/
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????
http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/07/26/association-voices-concerns-about-salmon-confidential-film-documentary/
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????
http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/07/26/association-voices-concerns-about-salmon-confidential-film-documentary/
??? ? ....Exactly bob what concerns could they possibly have. Hopefully it's not that spokesperson for the salmon frankenfarming group venting her spleen.
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??? ? ....Exactly bob what concerns could they possibly have. Hopefully it's not that spokesperson for the salmon frankenfarming group venting her spleen.
wow... the lady is painful to listen to ! I'm 3 minutes in and lost count of the X's she said ummh !!!
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wow... the lady is painful to listen to ! I'm 3 minutes in and lost count of the X's she said ummh !!!
Just about as bad as hearing Morton, Don, and the anti's spewing their dung that gets polished so well. :). They like to make the news, not report it. :)
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Sorry to disappoint you Steveroni.......... but not too much. You see young feller, I watched DFO , through willful ignorance or outright apathy decimate fisheries on the east coast, so my faith in anything they dream up is well, minimal. The fallout devastated families( mine being one of them), changed communities, and altered the fabric of a society. Some well marbled derriere, sitting in Ottawa that never spent a day on the sea fishing that pens a "report" filled with $50 words means squat to me. I wouldn't and don't trust DFO any further than I can pull BC Place. You don't need a boat load of diplomas to see that introduction of a foreign species, pooping, antibiotics, and slice along with God knows what else on a concentrated route is going to have a bad ending. Common sense, Steve.
Sorry, you can't use governments as the scape goat because when it comes down to it nobody wants to be told they can't fish and everyone (i.e. general public, stakeholders) likes to point fingers at everyone else except their own contribution to the situation. Management plays a role, I won't deny that, but rarely is there a single cause in things like this. Using common sense to defend opinions that are not based on facts does not make much sense, NB.
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" but the actions of a certain activist caused a chain reaction that ended up with regulatory change being a necessity now."
that statement is so under the net pen buddy ;D
Sorry if the truth hurts so bad. Have a sip of Kool-Aid.
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Sorry, you can't use governments as the scape goat because when it comes down to it nobody wants to be told they can't fish and everyone (i.e. general public, stakeholders) likes to point fingers at everyone else except their own contribution to the situation. Management plays a role, I won't deny that, but rarely is there a single cause in things like this. Using common sense to defend opinions that are not based on facts does not make much sense, NB.
Again more stuff from under the netpen. You phsycic or something, or just making this stuff up. people are told about the fishing regs which include closures..... duh. The other stakeholders just use cash to bribe politicians to get their way. Management......well they like their paycheck you know just common sense.
Shoe thrown under the netpen again. ;D
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Again more stuff from under the netpen. You phsycic or something, or just making this stuff up. people are told about the fishing regs which include closures..... duh. The other stakeholders just use cash to bribe politicians to get their way. Management......well they like their paycheck you know just common sense.
Shoe thrown under the netpen again. ;D
Seems like the only one using psychic ability right now is you. Who in particular is taking bribes? Who is just concerned with just the paycheck and not on management? Lots of rhetoric and no substance. I think you are on your way to having a role in a sequel to Salmon Confidential. Jody Erickson needs a sampling buddy.
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Sorry, you can't use governments as the scape goat because when it comes down to it nobody wants to be told they can't fish and everyone (i.e. general public, stakeholders) likes to point fingers at everyone else except their own contribution to the situation. Management plays a role, I won't deny that, but rarely is there a single cause in things like this. Using common sense to defend opinions that are not based on facts does not make much sense, NB.
Where are facts missing Steve? I simply related what idiotic policies from DFO had and how it devastated a fishery and the fallout from mismanagement had on families, mine being one of them - my family made most of it's income from fishing since arriving on the east coast over a hundred years before Canada became Canada.Nobody from my family is involved in fisheries now as it became apparent that the game was over. I saw the fallout first hand and I see the same lunacy behind the feedlots here.
Management plays a role, I won't deny that, - Exactly, but you don't want management to take any heat when the ,um, net pen poop hits the fan? Hilarious!
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I shouldn't answer for troutbreath, but the "bribes" as I see them are the money delivered to political parties in the form of donations. Ever look at who gave money to the Liberal party? Then see if they benefited from the largesse. If you're that blind to reality......
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http://www.seaaroundus.org/TVRadio/2009/CBC_FishFecesReduceOceanCO2Levels.pdf
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Where are facts missing Steve? I simply related what idiotic policies from DFO had and how it devastated a fishery and the fallout from mismanagement had on families, mine being one of them - my family made most of it's income from fishing since arriving on the east coast over a hundred years before Canada became Canada.Nobody from my family is involved in fisheries now as it became apparent that the game was over. I saw the fallout first hand and I see the same lunacy behind the feedlots here.
Management plays a role, I won't deny that, - Exactly, but you don't want management to take any heat when the ,um, net pen poop hits the fan? Hilarious!
Correction, NB, I never stated that I didn't want management to take any heat. It comes with the territory. I acknowledged those policies, but I also acknowledge the culture and society which we live in that always wants more (never less), but does little to take responsibility for actions they take. I also acknowledge that there are individuals who do not take the time to know the complete picture.
Management involves advisory processes and consultation involving many different players. It is not the easiest task to get agreement. Stakeholders not only bicker with DFO but they bicker with each other - accusing the other of robbing the resource. Don't take my word for it, go ask those involved in the advisory processes (on both sides of the table); talk to those involved with consulations with sporties and First Nations; and read some of the forum topics on the internet where sporties, commies, and First Nations all go at each other accusing each other of not doing their fair share to protect the resource. Try being that person in between sometime.
With regards to Fraser Sockeye, the management of the fishery is a complex set of tasks requiring the analysis of a lot of information coming in from different sources (test fisheries, creel, acoustic surveys and spawning ground surveys) that can constantly change from preseason to postseason. When you add in environmental conditions it can make it even more complex. Decisions need to be made quickly and most times with conflicting information. Each time a decision is made someone is undoubtedly going to complain. Trust me, there are times where I shake my head at some resource management decisions; however, I understand somewhat what resource management deals with and how being on the hot seat requires not just technical skills but also diplomacy. Definitely not a job I would desire. They may not always be the right decisions, but I would like to see how some of you would behave under similar circumstances. Situations where you are looked upon by many different groups to make not only the right decisions, but also timely decisions as well as being perceived as being fair.
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_05.pdf#zoom=100
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I shouldn't answer for troutbreath, but the "bribes" as I see them are the money delivered to political parties in the form of donations. Ever look at who gave money to the Liberal party? Then see if they benefited from the largesse. If you're that blind to reality......
You're right, you shouldn't have answered for him.
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Each time a decision is made someone is undoubtedly going to complain. Trust me, there are times where I shake my head at some resource management decisions; however, I understand somewhat what resource management deals with and how being on the hot seat requires not just technical skills but also diplomacy. Definitely not a job I would desire. They may not always be the right decisions, but I would like to see how some of you would behave under similar circumstances. Situations where you are looked upon by many different groups to make not only the right decisions, but also timely decisions as well as being perceived as being fair.
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_05.pdf#zoom=100
Well, you might not want it but I believe you would make an excellent resource manager for your area. For sure, the future of what's left of this resource needs proper management by competent people, and you fit the JD :)
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One of the problems as I see it is a lot of decisions are being made in the political theatre, I saw that first hand with the Fraser River Gravel file over the years. Some lost their jobs because they were not saying what those in power at the time wanted to hear. I am sure others can add further examples to these.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32646.0
http://www.watershed-watch.org/2013/04/globe-and-mail-ottawa-withholding-reports-on-bc-wild-salmon/
http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/fish-farms-allied-with-government-activists-say-1.146182
http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/03/when-science-goes-silent/
Also, how many recommendations from the Cohen inquiry not to mention numerous other Inquiries over the last number of years have actually been acted on?
Gets pretty depressing that we are all faced with such obstacles. :(
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Also, how many recommendations from the Cohen inquiry not to mention numerous other Inquiries over the last number of years have actually been acted on?
Gets pretty depressing that we are all faced with such obstacles. :(
Well Chris, at least two recommendations from the $26 M Cohen farce (think what that money could have done for habitat restoration) have been acted on ... one, there is to be no expansion of salmon farms in the Discovery Island area, said BC’s newly elected Premier, and two, Federal and private funding has been allocated to research into the relationship between wild and farmed salmon disease issues, this to be addressed by Dr's. Riddell, of the Pacific Salmon Foundation, and Miller, Science Branch, DFO.
But in the mean time all user groups are fighting over, and killing what's left because humans in general are greedy bastards..
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Well Chris, at least two recommendations from the $26 M Cohen farce (think what that money could have done for habitat restoration) have been acted on ... one, there is to be no expansion of salmon farms in the Discovery Island area, said BC’s newly elected Premier, and two, Federal and private funding has been allocated to research into the relationship between wild and farmed salmon disease issues, this to be addressed by Dr's. Riddell, of the Pacific Salmon Foundation, and Miller, Science Branch, DFO.
But in the mean time all user groups are fighting over, and killing what's left because humans in general are greedy bastards..
Well I hope something good comes of this, another study to add to many in the past. As well it does not take forever to be released to us and there is no government interference that has become all too common place these days.
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$26 M Cohen farce
I don't think that was a farce !
I think dfo and Harper are a farce !!!
Time to dismantle DFO and there Ottawa jobs ! here here
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Chris, I don't deny that our King back east is a bit of dip and that science is seen more of an inconvenience most times. One example is the not criminally responsible legislation changes proposed by the Harper Government which are not based on science from experts, but instead based on fear and ignorance towards mental illness (I have a family member that suffers from a mental illness). However, the media reports you posted only show part of the big picture - some are actually misleading. Not for what they say but what they do not say. That's why I take media reports with a grain of salt most times.
For instance, in the Times Colonist article you posted the reporter failed to mention the fact that veterinarians in BC are bound to confidentially (provincial legislation) with regards to data they collect - not just fish veterinaries but also with other animal veterinarians. Even medical doctors are bound to confidentially. This isn't some new thing that came down the pipe to stifle opponents to net-pen aquaculture. Mr. Coste may find it alarming but it is the law and people like Dr. Marty did the right thing under the circumstance. That's why people need to dig a little deeper than a news article because if people rely solely on that for information than they are short changing themselves. That's why some of us are not instantly alarmed by the news articles posted regarding aquaculture, Chris. You should be aware that aquaculture information is much more accessible now under the feds. Did the reporter mention that? I admit some of it is slow going, but critics cannot say that no one is listening.
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I don't think that was a farce !
I think dfo and Harper are a farce !!!
Time to dismantle DFO and there Ottawa jobs ! here here
Well, that's great you didn't think Cohen was a farce. You might also be pleased to know that along with criticism labelled against the department and recommendation made, Justice Cohen also had praise for the job people in the department are doing under challenging circumstances.
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Comments based on fact or fiction?
"Thankfully the courts in Canada are willing to stand up to bullies and demand that they back up their claims with facts. I don’t believe that this ruling will slow Staniford down in his pursuits but it does send a clear message to activists: do your homework before you open your mouths."
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/fair-comment/
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About June Sharkey
I am a firm supporter of resource based industries on and around Vancouver Island. I have friends who work in these industries and I am tired of seeing the bullying done by these so called "peaceful protesters." My main focus will be on the fish farm protesters because they are very active in my community.
Sounds like your kind of shrill fisfarmenbob. I wouldn't expect her to be more than one sided though. ::)
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Anti's making up stories again haha.
http://www.seafoodsource.com/newsarticledetail.aspx?id=21730&utm_source=Informz&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Insert+Campaign+Name+here
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Looks like Morton has debunked herself.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=438
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http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/sea-lice
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More self serving BS. Maybe Farmfisherbawb, instead of insulting the intelligence of adults who see through your "links" you and the posse could start on the children, like MacDonalds, Coke or the other corporations that find brain washing an acceptable practice.
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These days, I prefer to read the news from both sides of the fence and form my own opinion thank you very much NB. :)
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Morton at it again.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=445
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These days, I prefer to read the news from both sides of the fence and form my own opinion thank you very much NB. :)
Farmfresh(haha)salmon and bcsalmonfacts are on one side of the fence FYI
I hope you learned a lesson about giving money away to people. Seems like you haven't quoted that in awhile so I though you might be slipping back into old habits. Just looking out for you ...TB
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/BadKoolAid_zps73600e59.png) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/BadKoolAid_zps73600e59.png.html)
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Thank you TB but it will be a very long time before I forget about donating to Morton's cause. Please feel free to tell me what she has gotten right btw. I have not seen an answer from the anti's yet. Just school yard back talk lol. :)
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http://www.courierislander.com/opinion/dfo-s-management-plan-a-conflict-of-interest-1.130816 (http://www.courierislander.com/opinion/dfo-s-management-plan-a-conflict-of-interest-1.130816)
"I recently attended the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) meeting to discuss new aquaculture regulations. A five-year plan was presented that speaks of expansion, markets and profits. The DFO should be a regulatory and enforcement body. Concern with industry markets, promotion and economic growth is a conflict of interest.
The plan discusses eco-certificates to meet market demand, but open net fish farms use Slice, transfer sea lice to smolts, have disease and impact depleted wild stocks such as herring through what is termed by-catch. How are they "eco" anything?
A representative of Grieg Seafoods explained to us that they could not publicly share their disease information as it could negatively affect their shareholders; however disease in the farms can kill our Pacific stocks.
In an interview, Dr. Neil Frazer, from the University of Hawaii, spoke of an IHN epidemic in BC's Broughton Archipelago in 2001-2003, indicating that stocking levels of Atlantics in the farms exceeded the threshold for viral epidemics.
"BC's sockeye, chinook and steelhead salmon are susceptible to IHN, and stocking levels have increased since the 2001-2003 epidemic. Even without expansion, stocking levels have already made BC a 'sitting duck' for viral epidemics," he said.
In an article in the Courier-Islander of Nov. 8, 2009 the B.C. Salmon Farmers Association said "preliminary research shows that the common species of louse on sockeye (Caligus) is not the species normally found on farmed salmon which is Lepeophitherius". The Fish Health Report 2007, found on the Ministry of Agriculture and Lands website (BCMAL), state Caligus is one of two species of lice most common on farmed salmon. According to data graphs for the Broughton and Discovery Islands in Fish Health 2007 fish farms show rising levels of Caligus sea lice in June and July of 2007, when the sockeye smolts migrated past the farms.
From the Vancouver Sun, "Sockeye runs near the Fraser River that did not pass salmon farms including, Columbia River to the south and Somass River to the west, survived better than forecast...only the sockeye stocks that are known to migrate past 60 salmon farm sites failed at over 90 per cent."
Why the pink return did so well? For their 2008 spring out-migration, the BCMAL required action of fish farms, "In the spring of the year...if three motile lice are detected must include treatment or harvest." Does the fate of our wild fish depend whether fish farms use drugs or not?
Days after the sockeye collapse, the DFO were in Norway inviting more open net farms to our coast.
Before any inquiry they stated that the collapse was not the fault of the fish farms, even though they were in receipt of a letter of 2007 where 18 scientists warned to move the farms to closed containment and/or off the migration routes.
Just last month there was another call by scientists to move open net fish farms off the migration routes during smolt migrations.
When I asked for a moratorium on open net fish farms until the new regulations were put in place and until after the judicial inquiry on the collapse of the sockeye salmon, DFO's answer was no.
Why doesn't the rule to limit impact on declining species apply to the farms?
The DFO plan does not include closed containment. If we use technology to keep the farm and wild fish separate, we will have a thriving fish farm industry into the future, while keeping our Pacific salmon and the industries and ecosystems the Pacific salmon support.
At the DFO meeting a representative from the provincial Ministry of the Environment told us that he is in discussion with companies that believe land-based closed-containment fish farms are commercially available and financially viable.
Please write the Prime Minister and Gail Shea, Minister of DFO and urge our federal government to move open net fish farms to closed containment before any expansion and in the interim, to heed the scientists request to move open net fish farms off the Fraser migration routes during smolt migrations.
Leona Adams"
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Hey farmfisherbawb - I hear Enbridge is hiring in the Fairy Tales department AND I understand there's a serious opportunity in Inuvik selling air conditioners , but the high season won't start until mid November. Since you are falling flat on your face trying to convince anything above an amoeba that feedlots are good, I thought I might help guide you to an easier career path were your odds of success are at least ten times better. No need to say thank you, I just feel good about making things easier for you! :o
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More media scare tactics that will go no where. Get back to me when Morton gets something right NB. Btw you would sound more realistic if you had the science to back up your claims young man. :)
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More spinning from Morton.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/08/13/step-right-up-and-spin-the-wheel-of-fish/
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My feeling is this,
It's too bad we have to put up with her BS antics and squabble all the time, sure if there is something "proven" then by all means she has a right to say something about it, just like everybody else does, but to start making accusations about this and that all the time without the factual proof then that's where the problem lies with her. As far as I know there has been nothing proven as to how these herring got this virus from a fish farm, therefor why does she feed the press ? Doesn't she know that this kind of thing works against her in the big picture ? She needs to get out of the small frame and see the stupidity of these false statements. Until you know the entire truthful facts, then shut your hole and quit looking for crumbs.
I don't much care for fish farms as much as the next guy/gal but this Morton broad ?/ personally I can't stand her myself, she kinda reminds me of a sh!tty politician, she keeps hanging around but never ever wins the election, no matter how much Bs she feeds everyone.
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My feeling is this,
It's too bad we have to put up with her BS antics and squabble all the time, sure if there is something "proven" then by all means she has a right to say something about it, just like everybody else does, but to start making accusations about this and that all the time without the factual proof then that's where the problem lies with her. As far as I know there has been nothing proven as to how these herring got this virus from a fish farm, therefor why does she feed the press ? Doesn't she know that this kind of thing works against her in the big picture ? She needs to get out of the small frame and see the stupidity of these false statements. Until you know the entire truthful facts, then shut your hole and quit looking for crumbs.
I don't much care for fish farms as much as the next guy/gal but this Morton broad ?/ personally I can't stand her myself, she kinda reminds me of a sh!tty politician, she keeps hanging around but never ever wins the election, no matter how much Bs she feeds everyone.
If I understand you correctly you seem to be suggesting that no one should say anything unless they have conclusive proof..... Usually when there is conclusive proof it's already to late. When dealing with wild salmon stocks shouldn't the precautionary principle be applied?
You know the saying "Where there's smoke there is fire..." If we wait till we see the fire before talking about it or better yet doing something about it the damage may be irreversible.
Morton is close enough to the situation, committed and concerned enough to be hollering "fire". DFO on the other hand is sitting there saying "There is no fire, now let's come up with a PR plan to convince the public that there is no fire".
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If I understand you correctly you seem to be suggesting that no one should say anything unless they have conclusive proof..... Usually when there is conclusive proof it's already to late. When dealing with wild salmon stocks shouldn't the precautionary principle be applied?
You know the saying "Where there's smoke there is fire..." If we wait till we see the fire before talking about it or better yet doing something about it the damage may be irreversible.
Morton is close enough to the situation, committed and concerned enough to be hollering "fire". DFO on the other hand is sitting there saying "There is no fire, now let's come up with a PR plan to convince the public that there is no fire".
And many feel those that work for governments are being conrolled in what they say. There is a number of media articles that have reported that.
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And many feel those that work for governments are being conrolled in what they say. There is a number of media articles that have reported that.
Many feel that those that follow Morton are being controlled in what they say and what they read. There are a number of media articles that feature Morton's opinion that do not report the whole story.
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Many feel that those that follow Morton are being controlled in what they say and what they read. There are a number of media articles that feature Morton's opinion that do not report the whole story.
Thats newspapers for you. ;D
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Many feel that those that follow Morton are being controlled in what they say and what they read. There are a number of media articles that feature Morton's opinion that do not report the whole story.
No kidding. Read PravdaFarmfisherbawb's links and posts.....
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I seriously doubt that netpenbob owns a fishing rod. ;D Judging by his non posts on anything else but Morton and his cash cow gift to her.
He could be called part of the problem for people who don't like to hear from Morton. Now like a reformed smoker he's all over her. Constantly reminding us about her with links to other sites with stories about her.
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I seriously doubt that netpenbob owns a fishing rod. ;D Judging by his non posts on anything else but Morton and his cash cow gift to her.
He could be called part of the problem for people who don't like to hear from Morton. Now like a reformed smoker he's all over her. Constantly reminding us about her with links to other sites with stories about her.
When you get angry when some one on the internet posts information that is outside your little box,,, pay attention, you are about to learn something TB. :)
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More fiction from Morton.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/08/14/morbo-says-virus-testing-does-not-work-that-way/
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Sockeye news.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-fisheries-news-watch-august-16-2013
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www,farmfisherbawbsboguslinksandselfservingpropaganda.com
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http://bcseafood.ca/about/stats.php
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www,farmfisherbawbsboguslinksandselfservingpropaganda.com
Yup great link even has Bawb showering sea lice off his bawd. Thank bob the link is censored.
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I doubt you'll read this farmfisherbawb, but give it a whirl.....(and I trust these people a lot more than the self back patting crap you post)
http://www.watershed-watch.org/issues/salmon-farming/updates/
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I doubt you'll read this farmfisherbawb, but give it a whirl.....(and I trust these people a lot more than the self back patting crap you post)
http://www.watershed-watch.org/issues/salmon-farming/updates/
Thanks but I have already donated to that type of site before. I would have to be Bonkers to continue to donate to that bug hunters gone wild doom and gloom we want your money crap again. :)
Btw Bonkers, better let you class mates at WW they need to step it up. :)
http://www.globalsalmoninitiative.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/GSI-Press-Release-FINAL1.pdf
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fisherbob, i generally read the links you post.
I think this book would be a good read for you, its funny, well written and you can bang it off in 5 minute segments while you sit on the thrown.
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Call-Is-Important-Us/dp/1400081041
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fisherbob, i generally read the links you post.
I think this book would be a good read for you, its funny, well written and you can bang it off in 5 minute segments while you sit on the thrown.
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Call-Is-Important-Us/dp/1400081041
Funny thing is I have that book banx. :). Everyone likes a "good" bs story and I find it far more entertaining these days than the BS stories Morton and her parrots put out that were debunked far before salmon farming started.
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hahaha I thought you would enjoy it.
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Funny thing is I have that book banx. :). Everyone likes a "good" bs story and I find it far more entertaining these days than the BS stories Morton and her parrots put out that were debunked far before salmon farming started.
And the fish farms are the APEX, THE ABSOLUTE PARAGON of truth? Here's a book you will also enjoy Farmfisherbawb.....
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/banner_fairy_tales_zps10a58003.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/banner_fairy_tales_zps10a58003.gif.html)
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And the fish farms are the APEX, THE ABSOLUTE PARAGON of truth? Here's a book you will also enjoy Farmfisherbawb.....
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/banner_fairy_tales_zps10a58003.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/banner_fairy_tales_zps10a58003.gif.html)
I expected nothing more from you. Keep up the wit young man hehe. :)
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Oh boy.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=498
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Ah - the Brothers Grimm. I'm impressed with your literary knowledge in Fairy Tales!
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Ah - the Brothers Grimm. I'm impressed with your literary knowledge in Fairy Tales!
I will take that as a compliment from a fairy tale know it all. :)
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I've learned at your feet, Grand Master Farmfisherbawb. And besides, Fairy Tales might have a grain of truth, while the links you post don't! :o
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I've learned at your feet, Grand Master Farmfisherbawb. And besides, Fairy Tales might have a grain of truth, while the links you post don't! :o
Hold on to that grain of thought as long as you can young man. As salmon do, the real world can bite at times. :)
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News week.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-fisheries-news-watch-august-23-2013
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Quinsam Salmon Run 2013.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T62OzfACzQY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DT62OzfACzQY
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Just imagine if the feedlots weren't in operation.....
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Most likely would be worse. Ask your American friends. I am imagining how it might be if Morton would put the money given to her to salmon enhancement instead of to circus acts. :)
Btw poacher caught.
http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ%7E%7E%2CAAAA4mHNTzE%7E%2CejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2630588555001
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Every cast, I get a bite. ;D
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Every cast, I get a bite. ;D
Unfortunately all your catching is a sucker.... ;D
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Every cast, I get a bite. ;D
If your bait didn't taste like propaganda you might be able to reel one in lol. :)
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Unfortunately all your catching is a sucker.... ;D
Nope - It's a farm raised Atlantic frankenfish - See below: ;D
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/funny-fishing.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/funny-fishing.jpg.html)
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Tid-bits :)
http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/pubs/farmed_and_wild_salmon.pdf
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Tidbits? Here's a smorgasbord.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Y71cEIbHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N78SSfi2c4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zga8e6s_qs
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Tidbits? Here's a smorgasbord.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7Y71cEIbHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N78SSfi2c4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zga8e6s_qs
Investing in foreign interest still Bonkers? Lol :)
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Did any of those company names ring a bell Farmfisherbawb? Like , oh , Marine Harvest? If there's problems elsewhere....
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Did any of those company names ring a bell Farmfisherbawb? Like , oh , Marine Harvest? If there's problems elsewhere....
Can you find any anti fish-farm propaganda about the farms in Maine, Washington, and Alaska. Seems to me that I would have to be bonkers not to see the self serving US foreign interest BS that you have posted. :)
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You posted this on another thred NB and I thought you would find this link very interesting. Follow the money. :)
"Any company not from Canadian soil. We are an exceedingly wealthy nation and I can see no reason why we need increasingly allowing foreign ownership of Canada and it's resources, but giving it away as well as shoveling money at them is a disgrace." =NB.
http://youtu.be/ZFj7yTHDp6w
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What we are not to talk about.
http://actforaquaculture.ca/reflect/what-the-anti-ocean-farmed-salmon-idealists-dont-like-to-talk-about/
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More self serving codswallop.
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Does anyone know how this is coming along?
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7562924
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http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/metro/Environmental+pressure+creates+demand+sustainable+fish/7562923/story.html?rel=7562924
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You posted this on another thred NB and I thought you would find this link very interesting. Follow the money. :)
"Any company not from Canadian soil. We are an exceedingly wealthy nation and I can see no reason why we need increasingly allowing foreign ownership of Canada and it's resources, but giving it away as well as shoveling money at them is a disgrace." =NB.
http://youtu.be/ZFj7yTHDp6w
^^^Bonkers^^^hypocrite that can not answer a simple question and promotes American products :)
http://youtu.be/XkEt965hZFo
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Does anyone know how this is coming along?
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7562924
Anyone? I would like to know what they are fed, where the feed comes from, what chemicals are used. Transparency is what tax paying Canadians want is it not? I am sure the organic farmers would like to know also. Just a fair question. :)
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Anyone? I would like to know what they are fed, where the feed comes from, what chemicals are used. Transparency is what tax paying Canadians want is it not? I am sure the organic farmers would like to know also. Just a fair question. :)
They are, apparently, trying to use feed that is "sustainable" but I have not been able to locate the details as of yet. However, by raising the fish to maturity faster, they will use 30% less feed than open net pens so that alone is an improvement. This is the primary difference between the salmon ranching and open net pens that Suzuki is opposed to as growing salmon to maturity requires a lot more feed that growing them to a smaller size (big fish eat more than small fish) so there is less need for the highly concentrated food pellets. This is one of the few reasons ranching is seen by some to be better than open net pens ( less time in crowded pens means less chance for diseases to grow and spread is another, the down side obviously being that if the disease has already cultured and the penned salmon are released for "ranching", there is a greater likelihood the diseases could spread to wild stocks around the Pacific basin. While we are all in agreement that the proper management of wild stocks is ideal, there really is no real contradiction when comparing to open net pens. It is the case of choosing the lesser of two evils. Neither is good for wild salmon, other than to serve to provide fisherman with alternative salmon to catch and kill so more wild fish can escape to spawn ( the role of hatcheries since their inception). However, there has long been the concern with just culturing fish in hatcheries for "enhancement" that the solution was doing more harm than good.
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^^^Bonkers^^^hypocrite that can not answer a simple question and promotes American products :)
http://youtu.be/XkEt965hZFo
Huh? Oh, I see. I'm supposed to be a trained seal! I'm sorry, but I wasn't up to speed on that. My bad.
::)
No, I must admit, they didn't include me on that panel and I'm not privy to that information.But, however, I will state I don't promote Norwegian companies with pathetic track and dismal environmental records. ;) I will give myself 10 purple nurples and a noogie for this horrible transgression , Oh He Who Must Be Answered And Grand Master Of The Known Universe Who Knows All And Sees All.
Anyone? I would like to know what they are fed, where the feed comes from, what chemicals are used. Transparency is what tax paying Canadians want is it not? I am sure the organic farmers would like to know also. Just a fair question. :)
Wow - you call me a hypocrite and THEN spew all that is wrong with the feedlots, after forever telling us that farmed salmon are wonderful.HILARIOUS!
Once a month?
http://www.albany.edu/ihe/salmonstudy/pressrelease.html
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All that study says to me is buy American farmed fish. Nice advertising Bonkers. :)
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All that study says to me is buy American farmed fish. Nice advertising Bonkers. :)
Really? I read that it said NOT to eat farmed salmon more than once a month because of the chemical load. However, you won't have to worry about my educational seminars much longer as I've just been diagnosed with a potentially fatal health issue. I'll have to pass the torch to someone else to debunk your stream.
Carry on.
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http://bc.ctvnews.ca/farmed-vs-wild-salmon-which-is-better-1.485140
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http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
Head shake time.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=507
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Blah, blah blah. Next up for Farmfisherbawb - THE EARTH IS REALLY FLAT!
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http://salmonconfidential.com/awwk-pieces-of-virus-more-lies/
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Wrong forum. These folks will welcome you with open arms.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php
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Its good to see you still have your humour NB :).
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=101172
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http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/believers.htm
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Good news :)
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/pink-salmon-reaching-fraser-river-in-massive-numbers/article14298697/?service=mobile
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American born Morton should be on top of her own countries fishing and farming practises.
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
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http://www.ufosightingsdaily.com/
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But there is some fish farms that take more environmental responsibility. I'd like to know what feed they use and how the waste is disposed of, but it looks like a good project IMHO. See Farmfisherbawb, I'm not totally anti.
http://globalnews.ca/news/844305/manitoba-farm-makes-name-for-itself-raising-arctic-char/
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But there is some fish farms that take more environmental responsibility. I'd like to know what feed they use and how the waste is disposed of, but it looks like a good project IMHO. See Farmfisherbawb, I'm not totally anti.
http://globalnews.ca/news/844305/manitoba-farm-makes-name-for-itself-raising-arctic-char/
That is great to see a small family diversify their farming. Do you really think that all the families up and down the west coast that once depended on wild fisheries and processing could do this? Many are farmers now. Btw it does not look like that Manitoba farm employes many people. Good to see a family business doing well for them selves though. :)
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/09/17/science-without-data-is-scientific-malpractice/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/09/17/science-without-data-is-scientific-malpractice/
thanks for more blah blah blah. Why don't you post a pic of the last fish you caught eh. :-\
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thanks for more blah blah blah. Why don't you post a pic of the last fish you caught eh. :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY4EZGBKMRE
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good one ;D
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/09/18/why-kibenges-lab-lost-its-reference-status/
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Who is the muzzler?
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=531
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Do you ever post anything beyond salmonfarmnonsense or farmfreshsortalikesalmonbutmutatedanddyed?
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Who is the muzzler?
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=531
Been away 5 weeks, recreating ... thanks for the links Fisherbob showing Almo losing even more credibility, LOL!
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/09/18/why-kibenges-lab-lost-its-reference-status/
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/BlahBlah_zps2755c09d.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/BlahBlah_zps2755c09d.gif.html) >:(
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However, you won't have to worry about my educational seminars much longer as I've just been diagnosed with a potentially fatal health issue. I'll have to pass the torch to someone else to debunk your stream.
Carry on.
Nova, I have been away awhile and am attempting to catch up. Obviously, we disagree on a few things but health issues are far more important than our rants. Good luck with what's on your plate.
Dave
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Thanks Dave. When I had my biceps reattached this summer, they found am anomaly in my blood work. Next specialist is in mid October. I'll see where it goes from here.
I never take anything too seriously and bear no malice. Did you ever meet a good old fashioned Maritimer that didn't like a good argument? ;)
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Breaking news from Washington Post
http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farmed-vs-wild-salmon-can-you-taste-the-difference/2013/09/23/3a2650a2-1fcb-11e3-8459-657e0c72fec8_story.html
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/BlahBlah_zps2755c09d.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/BlahBlah_zps2755c09d.gif.html)
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Breaking news from Washington Post
http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farmed-vs-wild-salmon-can-you-taste-the-difference/2013/09/23/3a2650a2-1fcb-11e3-8459-657e0c72fec8_story.html
Another good post FB. I have eaten lots of wild salmon and quite a few farmed Atlantic's, mainly from Costco ... definitely a texture difference, Atlantic's being fattier and a bit softer. But, IMO, a frozen Pacific salmon tastes about the same as a fresh Atlantic. Both damn good!
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Another good post FB. I have eaten lots of wild salmon and quite a few farmed Atlantic's, mainly from Costco ... definitely a texture difference, Atlantic's being fattier and a bit softer. But, IMO, a frozen Pacific salmon tastes about the same as a fresh Atlantic. Both damn good!
Thanks Dave. Have to agree with you. I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq. I haven't had a chance to try this recipe yet, but it looks good :).
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LjgOcJoyJto&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLjgOcJoyJto
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"I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq."
Your talking about pork right? :-\
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"I like to smoke and pickle my catch and just lately found farmed is great on the Bbq."
Your talking about pork right? :-\
You are so smart TB :) perhaps you can answer these questions. I don't think Morton can or will.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=579
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come on bob..... reading anything from "farmfreshsalmon.org" is like believing everything on FOX news.
do you have anything not paid for by a farm?
the whole reason I posted that "your call is important to us" link is because your rebuttals all come from a lobbyist point of view. These farms are employing public relations companies.
if your paying someone to help you with publlic relations. you are doing something wrong. that is a fact. and quite possibly the only fact on these 27 some odd pages.
farming is needed. I agree, but telling anyone here that you are doing it right. is as close to a full on lie as possible.
There are thousands of people like me, who 'disagree' whith what is taking place in our oceans, but will say nothing in a thread like this and may only exercise there beliefs by not buying your product.
very few people have the time, resources available, or the intelligence to debate you on these issues. I do appluad that few that try and express their beliefs.
the only thing I can say is that when you hit 'post' understand that most of the information you are trying to get across is treated as probably some of the most fertile manure this side of the rockies.
farms are not the sole contributor to the decline of salmon stocks. but your hands are very dirty, so stop telling us they are clean.
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banx, the two commentors in the link supplied by fisherbob have nothing to do farmfreshsalmon.org. Which comment do you disagree with?
With a bit of sluething you should be able to determine one of the writers. Trust me, he knows his stuff and is not involved in salmon farming at all.
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sorry, I'm talking about the multitude of posts starting with "frshfarmedsalmon" or "farmalliance" or "farmingisgood" etc etc etc it was a generalization... I should have been more specific. I'm not talkin about shushwapsteve either. or the actual article condemning salmon confidential.
just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com
I'm not a morton fan or supporter. I read the technical papers and understand them (most haha). My only issue is that the 'science' used, if I can be so general does not take it into account the future. what I mean by this is that there is always a potential for mutation. it's why we have thumbs.
saying a virus won't jump from atlantic to pacific salmon is being optimistic to say the least. I'm not a scientist but I am very aware of the fact that as humans have developed technology we have been wrong about a lot of things. We have had several examples in recent years regarding virus mutations and its ability to jump species...... Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.
That is like saying someone who has HSPV but is not suffering an outbreak, doesn't really have herpes.
with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group.
You can see the full circle in cattle farming, where we pumped our cows with corn and gave ourselves heart disease. kept them packed in pens, pumped them with hormones and antibiotics. now cows are starting to eat grass (what a shocker) and surprise surprise the meat does not contain the same bad cholesterol and fats that corn fed cows have. maybe you know someone argentinian and they can elaborate more on this....
so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is.
it's incredibly tough to support open pen fish farming as it is taking place right now.
and like I said farms can't be the sole reason for salmon stock collapses. just a variable in the equation. and one that should be controlled.
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sorry, I'm talking about the multitude of posts starting with "frshfarmedsalmon" or "farmalliance" or "farmingisgood" etc etc etc it was a generalization... I should have been more specific. I'm not talkin about shushwapsteve either. or the actual article condemning salmon confidential.
just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com
I'm not a morton fan or supporter. I read the technical papers and understand them (most haha). My only issue is that the 'science' used, if I can be so general does not take it into account the future. what I mean by this is that there is always a potential for mutation. it's why we have thumbs.
saying a virus won't jump from atlantic to pacific salmon is being optimistic to say the least. I'm not a scientist but I am very aware of the fact that as humans have developed technology we have been wrong about a lot of things. We have had several examples in recent years regarding virus mutations and its ability to jump species...... Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.
That is like saying someone who has HSPV but is not suffering an outbreak, doesn't really have herpes.
with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group.
You can see the full circle in cattle farming, where we pumped our cows with corn and gave ourselves heart disease. kept them packed in pens, pumped them with hormones and antibiotics. now cows are starting to eat grass (what a shocker) and surprise surprise the meat does not contain the same bad cholesterol and fats that corn fed cows have. maybe you know someone argentinian and they can elaborate more on this....
so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is.
it's incredibly tough to support open pen fish farming as it is taking place right now.
and like I said farms can't be the sole reason for salmon stock collapses. just a variable in the equation. and one that should be controlled.
Good post. Like all farming practices, they evolve and get better over time. Salmon farming is really in it's infancy here in BC and improvements are happening regularly. Certainly these farms aren't perfect but what animal husbandry efforts, anywhere, are? Salmon farms aren't going away from BC and imo they are being controlled to the best of todays technology. The fact that there has been no documented incident of Pacific salmon being negatively impacted by farmed Atlantics in over 30 years here in BC tells me salmon farmers are doing the best they can. If they did otherwise they would be out of business.
Personally I am far more concerned with the other variables you alluded to.
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Dave I,m pretty sure you meant salmon farming is being done by infants in BC. Doing it the cheap wreckless way that provides the most payback.
I make some typos too so were not all perfect.
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Dave I,m pretty sure you meant salmon farming is being done by infants in BC. Doing it the cheap wreckless way that provides the most payback.
I make some typos too so were not all perfect.
Lol! missed you!
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Honesty in a nut shell :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/how-dishonest-fictional-%E2%80%9Cdocumentary%E2%80%9D-salmon-confidential
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just every retort is supported by www.freshfarmsalmon.com
And therein lies the crux of the "reports". Self serving propaganda - have any of the supporting firms of that website ever been caught telling whoppers or for that matter, any of the feedlots? Think hard and google hard before you answer....... Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice?Not going to happen. I ain't that stupid.
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I would expect that the people you are talking about have all told a fib or two
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Also saying a fish who carries a virus is not suffering from the disease is an interesting way to play down the severity of it.
Wrong. It is not playing down the severity of it at all. As mentioned many times already, it is stating a reality that happens in biological systems. The problem is that fish farm critics are refusing to try to understand the difference between having a virus and having a disease. They use the two interchangeably and that is wrong. They also fail to understand that adult Pacific Salmon can carry a host of endemic pathogens most of their lives which may not prove fatal. On the spawning grounds, a salmon carcass can have many pathogens inside, but trying to say that one caused the death over another is often very difficult. Many of these endemic pathogens were documented for the public in Cohen Technical Report #1. The interaction between pathogen, host and environment is not just a simple formula where if a fish gets a virus then it is instantly doomed. Actually, the pathogen itself may not be the overriding factor and definitely not the only factor. Environmental conditions can play a big role; however, even when you think certain environmental conditions will be ripe for disease it is not obvious in the success of spawn which can still end up being very good.
with so much to lose, I really hope the 'science' holds up.... but it's tough to believe when the research is paid for by a special interest group.
What research are you referring to? When it comes to PRV and HSMI (in the link Bob supplied) did you know that much of the information I obtained was taken from Ms Morton's own blog and the Salmonconfidential website? Are you suggesting that those studies (mostly from Norway) that Morton cites and uses as evidence for her theories on PRV and HSMI are paid for by a special interest group? Do you believe it is important to mention all relevant information in these studies in order to provide the public with all the facts - not just certain ones that may align with one's own opinion?
so, if you farm things in a way thats basically wrong, such as the way things are done now in open pens. stuff is going to go wrong, the animals, in this case, fish, will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and they will then need to employ someone to tell me how good their product really is.
Survival rates of farmed salmon in BC is between 90 and 95%. It is in the best interests of the farmers to optimize the health of their fish as much as possible. It is no different from land-based agriculture where farmers/ranchers optimize the health of their cattle or crops. Because the majority of it is exported outside of our borders it does not make sense to a produce fish of lesser quality especially when there is competition elsewhere.
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Steve, yes I am very aware of the difference between disease and a virus. Even though a salmon may suffer from many pathogens. Those pathogens were present in the natural environment for millennia. The pathogens contributed to the environment by the precence Atlantic salmon is new. And the presence of Atlantic salmon can be controlled.
I had already mentioned that I don't support Morton, she was proven to be a stretcher of the truth. And if the science was paid for by a special interest group it can be taken with a grain of truth if it comes from either side of the argument..... I also don't have the time to go through the hundreds of links being tossed around this forum. But my main concern was a paper ensuring that virus mutation could not happen. It's probably a few pages back and starts with www.freshfarmedsalmon.com I would expect :)
The real fact. And Steve you can take it as you wish. But the fact that farms employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong. And a 95% survival rate is great.....because they are pumped full of drugs. The meat is of a lesser quality. And always will be because it's unnatural. This applies to beef, chicken, pork etc etc
I really don't know how people can be stewards of the environment and support open pen farms. Because as a sport fisher, you generally respect your environment and care about its future. Maybe you have a son in law working for a farm, or possibly stock options in a pension. And doing the best you can sounds like an excuse. I think yoga said it best. Do or do not. There is no try
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Fish farming takes over beef.
http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2013/update114
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Fish farming takes over beef.
http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2013/update114
[/quote
Thanks for another interesting link Fisherbob ... and it's not from fish farmers ;D
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ya fish farming is taking over beef, we don't need the rainforest for oxygen, so why would we need the oceans.
"As cattle ranches have displaced biologically rich rainforests, fish farms have displaced mangrove forests that provide important fish nursery habitats and protect coasts during storms. Worldwide, aquaculture is thought to be responsible for more than half of all mangrove loss, mostly for shrimp farming. In the Philippines, some two thirds of the country’s mangroves—over 100,000 hectares—have been removed for shrimp farming over the last 40 years."
could this also be applied to the dead zones around pens in canada. on both coasts?
just a beauty of an article, makes me all warm and fuzzy for the future.
"On the fish feed front, fishmeal producers are incorporating more seafood scraps into their products; today roughly a third of fishmeal is made up of food fish trimmings and other by-products. And some fish farmers are substituting livestock and poultry processing wastes and plant-based feeds for fishmeal and oil, which does not sound particularly appetizing, but does reduce pressure on wild stocks. From a sustainability standpoint, however, it would be preferable to shift the balance back in favor of farmed fish raised without feeds based on food grains, oilseeds, and protein from other animals."
miller light said it best I suppose: "tastes great, less filling"
and if farmed fish, for sustainablility purposes, dont eat "food grains, oilseeds and protein from other animals" what the hell are they supposed to eat? coffee and cigarettes?
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time to breathe banx ;)
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The other by-products usually don't get printed up, because people don't like eating feces fed fish. Feces from all animals fed to farmed fish. That's why they taste so shi&&y. ;D Goes for Basa etc.
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Steve, yes I am very aware of the difference between disease and a virus. Even though a salmon may suffer from many pathogens. Those pathogens were present in the natural environment for millennia. The pathogens contributed to the environment by the precence Atlantic salmon is new. And the presence of Atlantic salmon can be controlled.
I don't follow after "virus". What point are you trying to make?
[I had already mentioned that I don't support Morton, she was proven to be a stretcher of the truth. And if the science was paid for by a special interest group it can be taken with a grain of truth if it comes from either side of the argument..... I also don't have the time to go through the hundreds of links being tossed around this forum. But my main concern was a paper ensuring that virus mutation could not happen. It's probably a few pages back and starts with www.freshfarmedsalmon.com I would expect :)
With the exception of Ms Morton's virus surveillance work, the science that is being referred to "most" of the time is actually pretty good (IMO). The issue I have is that science with this issue is being purposely misinterpreted in most cases to align with one's opinion. If we really want science to hold up then we need to stop manipulating what these researchers are saying and look at all the results and conclusions. I think it is hypocritical for Ms Morton to partake in a rally which is about "Standing Up For Science" when she is one of the worst offenders of misinterpreting science as well as censoring additional information from them (i.e. Dr. Miller) which adds important context. Lastly, scientific authors like Ms Morton should expect questions about their work and be able to provide responses to those questions instead of ducking and running while at the same time making unsubstantiated claims under the shroud of science.
The real fact. And Steve you can take it as you wish. But the fact that farms employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong. And a 95% survival rate is great.....because they are pumped full of drugs. The meat is of a lesser quality. And always will be because it's unnatural. This applies to beef, chicken, pork etc etc
I really don't know how people can be stewards of the environment and support open pen farms. Because as a sport fisher, you generally respect your environment and care about its future. Maybe you have a son in law working for a farm, or possibly stock options in a pension. And doing the best you can sounds like an excuse. I think yoga said it best. Do or do not. There is no try
I disagree that reason fish farm companies employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong. Many industries, government agencies and NGOs have communications personnel to deal with inquiries from the media and general public as well as relaying information. In the case of BC fish farms, I am interested in what you believe these public relation companies are considering that companies like Marine Harvest and Mainstream have staff that frequently response to media articles and questions from the public.
There is more to having a high survival rate than just the use of drugs. What are all these drugs that farmed fish here in BC are having pumped into them? If they are "pumped full" as you claim then what quantities are we talking about? Are you aware that proper fish husbandry (even at fish hatcheries) employs many techniques to optimize fish health - not specifically drugs? That includes biosecurity protocols and procedures; feed practices; reducing stress; and routinely monitoring fish health. Secondly, medication is used as required - not preventively. In fact, most of the feed used (98%) contains no medicines. Thirdly, antibiotics used in BC farmed fish are veterinarian prescribed, so it is not just uncontrolled usage. Fourthly, BC farmed fish are vaccinated to boost their immune systems and last only long enough to provoke an immune response. Lastly, hormones and genetic modifications are not used in farmed fish in BC to promote growth (as you attempt to draw parallels to the terrestrial agriculture). Those are the facts.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/antibiotics.htm
Sorry, I don't have any family members or friends that work for a fish farm although I know members here that have more experience than I do with aquaculture (namely absolon). I also do not have stock options in a pension relating to a fish farm....sorry again.
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I don't follow after "virus". What point are you trying to make?
You said that a salmon can carry many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. I'm sure they can with the pathogens that were present during their evolution. The introduction of new ones is the problem, sure these new pathogens aren't getting things sick yet..... but it's still early. and you have no guarantees on that.
"I disagree that reason fish farm companies employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong. Many industries, government agencies and NGOs have communications personnel to deal with inquiries from the media and general public as well as relaying information."
you make my point for me with that statement. you also inserted 'communications personnel' which takes the bite out of public relations.
"There is more to having a high survival rate than just the use of drugs. What are all these drugs that farmed fish here in BC are having pumped into them? If they are "pumped full" as you claim then what quantities are we talking about? Are you aware that proper fish husbandry (even at fish hatcheries) employs many techniques to optimize fish health - not specifically drugs? That includes biosecurity protocols and procedures; feed practices; reducing stress; and routinely monitoring fish health. Secondly, medication is used as required - not preventively. In fact, most of the feed used (98%) contains no medicines. Thirdly, antibiotics used in BC farmed fish are veterinarian prescribed, so it is not just uncontrolled usage. Fourthly, BC farmed fish are vaccinated to boost their immune systems and last only long enough to provoke an immune response. Lastly, hormones and genetic modifications are not used in farmed fish in BC to promote growth (as you attempt to draw parallels to the terrestrial agriculture). Those are the facts.
1. ok I used the term 'pumped full' to sensationalize it, manipulating the language to skew one's message is pretty common I think. Probably more so in the 'communications' industry ;)
I also suppose that since you are using the term 'drugs' in its plural form that more than one drug is being used.
2. and it's still not enough because it takes place in the open ocean. so regardless of these husbandry techniques it will not be enough.... these are the issues steve; open pen, drugs in the ocean, close proximity in the ocean, don't know the future problems..... this is my concern with the science holding up. I have not questioned its accuracy, only the confidence being placed in it so that these practices can continue. no one has a clue whats going to happen in 2 generations worth of this.
3. I would hope it is prescribed by a vet. I actually expected it. I wonder how long before there is antibiotic resistance issues as well? or have farms encountered these problems already?
4. so the expectation there is that they will get sick.
5. there are many parallels with terrestrial agriculture. use of hormones and genetic modification are probably the only 2 things it doesn't have in common....The beef industry has had a lot of confrontation with people over the years. I'm sure you would have remembered many of them. and that is where I draw my parallels. the way it has changed over the years, decreasing density, ethical slaughter, changes because of mad cow, and its ability to jump species, and now a hipster push for grass fed antibiotic/hormone free or real beef. don't forget the other problems it faced with waste control and contamination. these issues relate, there is no denying that.
I suppose since you have no financial connection to the salmon farming industry you just like the taste of them.... was it aquired? I know I wasn't fond of my first beer.
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You said that a salmon can carry many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. I'm sure they can with the pathogens that were present during their evolution. The introduction of new ones is the problem, sure these new pathogens aren't getting things sick yet..... but it's still early. and you have no guarantees on that.
"I disagree that reason fish farm companies employ public relations companies means they are doing something wrong. Many industries, government agencies and NGOs have communications personnel to deal with inquiries from the media and general public as well as relaying information."
you make my point for me with that statement. you also inserted 'communications personnel' which takes the bite out of public relations.
"There is more to having a high survival rate than just the use of drugs. What are all these drugs that farmed fish here in BC are having pumped into them? If they are "pumped full" as you claim then what quantities are we talking about? Are you aware that proper fish husbandry (even at fish hatcheries) employs many techniques to optimize fish health - not specifically drugs? That includes biosecurity protocols and procedures; feed practices; reducing stress; and routinely monitoring fish health. Secondly, medication is used as required - not preventively. In fact, most of the feed used (98%) contains no medicines. Thirdly, antibiotics used in BC farmed fish are veterinarian prescribed, so it is not just uncontrolled usage. Fourthly, BC farmed fish are vaccinated to boost their immune systems and last only long enough to provoke an immune response. Lastly, hormones and genetic modifications are not used in farmed fish in BC to promote growth (as you attempt to draw parallels to the terrestrial agriculture). Those are the facts.
1. ok I used the term 'pumped full' to sensationalize it, manipulating the language to skew one's message is pretty common I think. Probably more so in the 'communications' industry ;)
I also suppose that since you are using the term 'drugs' in its plural form that more than one drug is being used.
2. and it's still not enough because it takes place in the open ocean. so regardless of these husbandry techniques it will not be enough.... these are the issues steve; open pen, drugs in the ocean, close proximity in the ocean, don't know the future problems..... this is my concern with the science holding up. I have not questioned its accuracy, only the confidence being placed in it so that these practices can continue. no one has a clue whats going to happen in 2 generations worth of this.
3. I would hope it is prescribed by a vet. I actually expected it. I wonder how long before there is antibiotic resistance issues as well? or have farms encountered these problems already?
4. so the expectation there is that they will get sick.
5. there are many parallels with terrestrial agriculture. use of hormones and genetic modification are probably the only 2 things it doesn't have in common....The beef industry has had a lot of confrontation with people over the years. I'm sure you would have remembered many of them. and that is where I draw my parallels. the way it has changed over the years, decreasing density, ethical slaughter, changes because of mad cow, and its ability to jump species, and now a hipster push for grass fed antibiotic/hormone free or real beef. don't forget the other problems it faced with waste control and contamination. these issues relate, there is no denying that.
I suppose since you have no financial connection to the salmon farming industry you just like the taste of them.... was it aquired? I know I wasn't fond of my first beer.
Thank you Mister Banx! Intelligent and well put, but expect farmfisherbawb to be along shortly with quotes and crap from farmfishnonsense.com. Wear your waders as it gets thick and deep with those "sources".
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/LOL-Monty_Python_Applause.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/LOL-Monty_Python_Applause.gif.html)
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You said that a salmon can carry many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. I'm sure they can with the pathogens that were present during their evolution. The introduction of new ones is the problem, sure these new pathogens aren't getting things sick yet..... but it's still early. and you have no guarantees on that.
Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I agree that the introduction of new pathogens could present a problem, but there is a lot you have omitted which provides important context to this. First, the BC fish farm industry primarily uses its own broodstock to propagate more fish. The fact is that imports are quite limited. Second, if eggs are imported they are screened for exotic diseases and those resulting fish are quarantined and monitored before they are reared any further. Additionally, species imported from outside Canada for culture must be certified disease free so no impacts are expected. Third, fish on BC fish farms are routinely monitored for endemic and exotic diseases –more so than wild fish. Because exotic diseases like ISA are lethal to Atlantic Salmon it is very reasonable to conclude to that if they are here in a virulent form then we should expect to see them on the farms first with very obvious and massive fish loss. This was stated by Dr. Nylund during the Cohen Commission aquaculture hearings. By law, the detection of exotic viruses like ISAv has to be relayed to the CFIA. Last, recent viral surveillance work (1st year of a multi-year study) by both the Washington State and Canada has not detected ISAv.
There are no guarantees on anything – not unlike other things we do in and around water. As for things still being “early”…well salmon farming began in BC in the 1970s and there have not been any egg imports from Norway since 1985. Fish farm critics frequently contend that exotic viruses like ISAv have been spread by egg imports; however, to date, there is no evidence of ISA or ISAv being detected in our waters. In respect to Fraser Sockeye, Cohen said that the evidence does not allow him to conclude whether an ISAv or ISAv-like virus currently exists (Cohen Final Report: Vol. 2; Ch. 4; pg. 60). Despite this, I agree with Dave that it is possible that a non-virulent virus like ISAv exists off our coast, but we really have not been looking for it. I believe that Dr. Miller did find something interesting in this when she looked retrospectively at preserved samples; however, it should also be noted that Dr. Miller suggests that her retrospective work showed that the ISAv-like virus she found could have existed here before salmon farming started in BC. This is important information is omitted in the Salmonconfidential film. It does not necessarily mean that a non-virulent virus cannot turn into a more virulent form, but it also does not mean that it came from salmon farms here. Again, to date, there is no evidence of that.
you make my point for me with that statement. you also inserted 'communications personnel' which takes the bite out of public relations.
Well, actually you sort of make the argument for communication personnel or public relations because many of your perceptions about salmon farming in BC are false. If you would have contacted communications people like Grant Warkentin at Mainstream he would have addressed many of your perceptions about fish farming in BC. If you still do not believe communications people the work for the BC industry than you can always visit a fish farm for yourself or even visit a federal salmon hatchery for that matter.
1. ok I used the term 'pumped full' to sensationalize it, manipulating the language to skew one's message is pretty common I think. Probably more so in the 'communications' industry
I also suppose that since you are using the term 'drugs' in its plural form that more than one drug is being used.
Ok, so you are critical of the “communications industry” of covering up or smoothing out definite wrong-doing, but you decide to use terms to sensationalize and manipulate the language to make your point….then suggest that using language to skew the message is “pretty common” – probably more so in the “communications industry”. You do understand how hypocritical you sound right now? If you are trying to show the shortcomings of public relations and the language they use it seemed to get lost in that quote above. Why not just keep it real? As for more than one drug being used I am not sure how many and what types of drugs are used although I believe the number of drugs (for bacterial infections) was eluded to in the link I provided last time.
5. there are many parallels with terrestrial agriculture. use of hormones and genetic modification are probably the only 2 things it doesn't have in common....The beef industry has had a lot of confrontation with people over the years. I'm sure you would have remembered many of them. and that is where I draw my parallels. the way it has changed over the years, decreasing density, ethical slaughter, changes because of mad cow, and its ability to jump species, and now a hipster push for grass fed antibiotic/hormone free or real beef. don't forget the other problems it faced with waste control and contamination. these issues relate, there is no denying that.
I don’t necessarily disagree that there may be similarities with the way other industries have floundered and advanced. I just wanted to point out that genetic modifications and hormones are not used. Fish farming in BC has changed quite a bit since the 70s. The way fish farmers raise fish has changed. Analytical techniques that were likely dreamed about back in the infancy of the industry exist now. Benthic monitoring of sites has also changed. The regulatory environment that existed in the 70s for aquaculture here in BC is actually quite different now. BC probably has the most stringent regulatory environment for net pen aquaculture in the world.
I suppose since you have no financial connection to the salmon farming industry you just like the taste of them.... was it aquired? I know I wasn't fond of my first beer.
If you really need to know I prefer to eat fish that I catch locally from small lakes. I actually prefer halibut over salmon (wild or farmed) in a restaurant given the choice. When I do decide to eat fish from a supermarket I usually get the farmed steelhead. In my opinion, if fish is improperly cared for after catching it or is not cooked properly it doesn’t matter whether it is farmed or wild – it will all taste sub-par. I can also tell you other interesting things like which side I like my toilet paper to come off the roll if you like…lol.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/egg-oeuf-eng.html
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Thank you for clarifying what you meant. I agree that the introduction of new pathogens could present a problem, but there is a lot you have omitted which provides important context to this.
There are no guarantees on anything – not unlike other things we do in and around water. As for things still being “early”…well salmon farming began in BC in the 1970s and there have not been any egg imports from Norway since 1985. Fish farm critics frequently contend that exotic viruses like ISAv have been spread by egg imports; however, to date, there is no evidence of ISA or ISAv being detected in our waters. In respect to Fraser Sockeye, Cohen said that the evidence does not allow him to conclude whether an ISAv or ISAv-like virus currently exists (Cohen Final Report: Vol. 2; Ch. 4; pg. 60). Despite this, I agree with Dave that it is possible that a non-virulent virus like ISAv exists off our coast, but we really have not been looking for it. I believe that Dr. Miller did find something interesting in this when she looked retrospectively at preserved samples; however, it should also be noted that Dr. Miller suggests that her retrospective work showed that the ISAv-like virus she found could have existed here before salmon farming started in BC. This is important information is omitted in the Salmonconfidential film. It does not necessarily mean that a non-virulent virus cannot turn into a more virulent form, but it also does not mean that it came from salmon farms here. Again, to date, there is no evidence of that.
Well, actually you sort of make the argument for communication personnel or public relations because many of your perceptions about salmon farming in BC are false. If you would have contacted communications people like Grant Warkentin at Mainstream he would have addressed many of your perceptions about fish farming in BC. If you still do not believe communications people the work for the BC industry than you can always visit a fish farm for yourself or even visit a federal salmon hatchery for that matter.
Ok, so you are critical of the “communications industry” of covering up or smoothing out definite wrong-doing, but you decide to use terms to sensationalize and manipulate the language to make your point….then suggest that using language to skew the message is “pretty common” – probably more so in the “communications industry”. You do understand how hypocritical you sound right now? If you are trying to show the shortcomings of public relations and the language they use it seemed to get lost in that quote above. Why not just keep it real?
How are my perceptions of farms false? what am I ommiting?
I'm pretty sure they are done in the open ocean, the fish are kept in close proximity and a host of antibiotics and meds are used in the open ocean. You've actually gone as far to describe the husbandry techniques in great detail. thank you.
I tried to pull up my old facebook messages because I was in contact with a pro farm site and I had addressed my conerns to them. They are not there now. and they are the same concerns I have addressed on this forum.
I have visited a few hatcheries in my years, one of my best friends works for one. A hatchery is in my eyes different than a farm. I don't see farms dumping fingerlings and yearlings into the rivers so that we can try and catch them in 4 years. I've also yet to visit a hatchery that is growing fish in an open pen in the ocean. I also believe that hatchery fish stop eating pellets when they are dumped in fresh water and begin eating natural food....
you said salmon farming is not new, you gave me the years 1970 and 1985.
roughly 6 million years of evolution is a long time. 43 years seems 'early' to me. especially with pathogen mutation. these new pathogens have been introduced recently in my eyes as salmon have had millions of years to adapt or evolve to deal with the pathogens that were present in the environment during their evolution.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352440/figure/fig01/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3352440/
Look, a few years ago sea lice was blamed on farms. The public relations companies employed by farms downplayed the issue as much as saying that farms are not responsible. Of course now that more is known the song has changed...... the entire website called BC Salmon facts is a work of public relations art.
one fact they have on their homepage is "farmers work to protect wild salmon from sea lice" so theres your spin, from denial, to downplaying to now being stewards of the environment protecting wild salmon.
that is hypocritical. and ya so was I, and so have you been. I have been very 'real'. There is so much to lose steve and so much were doing wrong. we have no idea what the long term consequences will be. which you admit to. So how do you consider this endeavour a safe gamble?
saying its safe now because there are no immediate consequences in the environment is one of the most ridiculously optimistic ways of looking at farms possible.
its wonderful that steps are in place to try and regulate and monitor. It really is. I just feel the costs outweigh the benefits of open pen farms.
edit* I like my toilet paper to roll from the front. Aesthetically I think its more pleasing to the eye ;D
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How are my perceptions of farms false? what am I omitting?
You are omitting and in some cases exaggerating the facts of salmon farming in BC. It is right there in your posts. First, you keep contending that fish farm companies in BC have hired public relations companies and that the research from them is from a lobbyist point of view and it is paid for by them. I asked you who these “hired companies” are and have not received an answer. In addition, I explained to you already that much of the science referred to by the industry in their blogs is from peer-review studies done by non-governmental scientists (i.e. universities, Pacific Salmon Commission, Norwegian Veterinary Institute; even Ms. Morton, Dr. Krkosek, and Dr. Kibenge) and governmental scientists (DFO, MOE, WDFW). The Cohen Final Report is also referred to on those pro-fish farming sites you despise. These pro-fish farming blogs also refer to exact follow up tests (specifically ISAv and ISA) by Morton which does not support her findings. The funny thing is that many of these same studies are also on anti-salmon farm sites, but people like Ms Morton purposely misinterprets or omits important results in order for the study to align with her opinion.
Like anti-fish farm blogs, the BC fish farm industry and private individuals who have affiliation to fish farming and support it have the right to dispel false claims and incorrect assumptions. I don’t fish farm and I am not affiliated with the industry but I do see why they have these blogs. Social media is a powerful tool and if antis are going to use it then those who support fish farming are going to use it also. If you feel like it is incorrect then you are free to post a rebuttal on their blogs. On the other hand, in my experience, if people attempt to post fair comments on Morton’s blog or the Salmon Are Sacred webpage which do not align with the anti’s view of salmon farming they have their posts deleted. One gentleman attempted to correct one fish farm critic on the Salmon Are Sacred site who mistakenly called a Sockeye Salmon carcass a Chinook Salmon carcass. This critic then went onto blame salmon farms for lesions on the sides of the fish. The person who tried to correct the obvious species misidentification had his post deleted. Who is really covering up wrong doing?
Second, you make comparisons to cattle farming where I admit there are some similarities, but you stretch things a lot by saying they are pumped full of drugs – with reference to hormones and antibiotics. The industry openly admits to using antibiotics, but their usage needed clarification and context which you did not mention (note that the link I provided on this did not start with Salmonfarmscience). Hormones are not used by the BC industry, but one of your responses attempted to make this connection.
Third, you conclude that the way things are farmed in open pens (I suspect this includes BC) is wrong and then go onto to conclude that because of this fish will get sick, the product will be of a lesser quality and then someone will be needed to tell you how good the product is. Well, I admit that the industry will say how good their product is because they certainly are not going to denounce it. However, you have not articulated to me what exactly they are doing wrong which is going to cause their fish to get sick. More importantly, you have not articulated “the way things are done now in open pens” to me. If you started from a point of actual knowledge about what you were taking about I would not have replied the way I have. As I tried to explain to you there is a lot more to fish husbandry than what many fish farm critics think they know. Having sick fish is not in the best interests of someone trying to raise fish - either on a fish farm or in a fish hatchery. Although raising fish on fish farms and raising fish in hatcheries have their differences they also have their similarities – notably to be proactive in preventing and monitoring pathogens and having biosecurity protocols and procedures. I used to work at a couple fish hatcheries in my younger years.
I'm pretty sure they are done in the open ocean, the fish are kept in close proximity and a host of antibiotics and meds are used in the open ocean. You've actually gone as far to describe the husbandry techniques in great detail. thank you.
One thing for certain is that aquaculture is not going away. I am not certain net pens aquaculture worldwide is going to go close containment or not, but there is certainly demand for aquaculture products (not just finfish) worldwide and it is increasing annually. I feel that we are not going to meet demand by catching them commercially. Catching fish like we have been in mixed stock fisheries has been far more damaging than open net pen fish farming (IMO).
Honestly, I am not particular concerned if the industry here in BC ever decides to go to close containment. In fact, I encourage more science in this area even if the economics on a larger scale are not great right now. I also support the Cohen recommendations and I am willing to look at any new information that may come it – good or bad for the industry, but I don’t believe critics will accept anything contrary to their beliefs in 10 years from now.
you said salmon farming is not new, you gave me the years 1970 and 1985.
roughly 6 million years of evolution is a long time. 43 years seems 'early' to me. especially with pathogen mutation. these new pathogens have been introduced recently in my eyes as salmon have had millions of years to adapt or evolve to deal with the pathogens that were present in the environment during their evolution.
What new pathogens have been introduced recently here and how were they introduced? We need to start somewhere so let’s start here.
Look, a few years ago sea lice was blamed on farms. The public relations companies employed by farms downplayed the issue as much as saying that farms are not responsible. Of course now that more is known the song has changed...... the entire website called BC Salmon facts is a work of public relations art.
one fact they have on their homepage is "farmers work to protect wild salmon from sea lice" so theres your spin, from denial, to downplaying to now being stewards of the environment protecting wild salmon.
More is known about sea lice and there are also some unknowns. This was discussed at length in the Cohen Final Report. BC Salmon farmers do not deny that sea lice levels can amplify near farms, but critics do not tell the whole story which includes lice levels on farms; the lack of local extinction that was predicted for Pink Salmon in the Broughton area; the use of SLICE (how much, when, impacts); the increase of Pinks in the North Pacific; fallowing of sites; the involvement fish farmers with other groups (which includes environmentalists) with regard to sea lice management (BAMP); and how fish on farms are monitored for lice. Fish farm critics also fail to acknowledge research which runs contrary to their beliefs like the one below. In fact you won’t find this study on Morton’s blog or the Salmonconfidential.ca website. However, you will find it on those pro-fish farm blogs you dislike. I can find it for you on those sites if you want.
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract
that is hypocritical. and ya so was I, and so have you been. I have been very 'real'. There is so much to lose steve and so much were doing wrong. we have no idea what the long term consequences will be. which you admit to. So how do you consider this endeavour a safe gamble?
Where have I been hypocritical? If you call saying “pumped full of drugs” being “real” then you have a much different interpretation than I. To clarify, I also said that there are no guarantees and this goes for many (if not all) activities we do in and around water. We do much more risky endeavours where we are actually seeing the results in some cases, but do not hold those activities to the same standard as fish farming. I do agree that there are data gaps and these were outline by Cohen. I am not unwilling to look at new research that comes available that might support your views, but I also realize that there are other things going on that may not have any connection to salmon farming that also need attention.
saying its safe now because there are no immediate consequences in the environment is one of the most ridiculously optimistic ways of looking at farms possible.
Again, fish farm opponents have repeatedly stated that exotic diseases have come here via egg imports. Egg imports are basically non-existent now as farms here use their own broodstock. However, if these exotic viruses bypassed the biosecurity measures I said earlier and the industry here is as “dirty” as you suggest then would it be reasonable to assume that exotic diseases like ISA would be killing millions of farmed fish – especially since diseases like ISA are lethal to Atlantic Salmon. All viruses originate from the wild and they will mutate with or without salmon farms. It does not mean that a non-virulent virus cannot become virulent, but I don’t think we need to be creating a lot of hysteria over possible mutations. I would rather see research like the one being proposed by DFO, the Pacific Salmon Foundation and Genome BC proceed to help provide greater insight. Like Dave, I believe there are much greater obstacles to salmon that we should be concerned about.
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"I asked you who these “hired companies” are and have not received an answer"
Get a life, you know a sure as slice that one group is EWOS types who produce the feed for them dirty fish. Man talk about tossing red herring around. Fibfarmerbob quote right from the other ones.
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steve. I just gave you a site that was a total public relations company. and quoted them.... those are all public relation fronts.
"working to protect wild salmon" which is hilarious.
of course i'm going to use and manipulate the language to get my point across. its called articulation. having a vocabulary. You do it with your eloquent posts that probably keep 98% of the people from saying anything because they don't want to be made foolish.
steve.... I'm not knocking the science. I've told you that. It is tough to digest when it's paid for by a special interest. regardless of which side of the fence they sit on. like the irony of "truth in advertising" and I will repeat I'm not a morton fan or supporter, I don't know why you keep talking about her when you reply to me.
as for pathogens they would have been introduced when farming started.... You said that a salmon can suffer from many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. So you agreed with me initially, then you tell me it doesn't happen? so your saying nothing was introduced ever when farming took place? that the ilnesses atlantic salmon suffer all came from pacific salmon? I will gladly read any info you can point me to regarding the introduction of atlantics here in the pacific. Especially if it's related to early diseases and viruses.
is that why there are such stringent regulations in place? "some of the strictest in the world" as you said.
steve they use drugs, these drugs flow into the open oceans which you have no idea what they do to other animals. what more needs to be clarified? its drugs in the ocean. thats the bottom line. you can quote husbandry techniques and say its vet prescribed. but guess what, its the open ocean. is that not correct? tell me that open net pens are not in the ocean. please tell me.
your paragrpah beginning with "third" makes my point for me, yet again.... thanks. This may be just a wild assumption, as i'm no scientist or fish farmer. But my understanding is that when animals, fish in this case are in close proximity to each other they get sick at a much higher rate than they would in the wild or if they had more 'space'. is that wrong also?
so the spin regarding sea lice was true. yet you expect to have complete confidence in the farms public relations department now. one great mind named shuswapsteve once told me something brilliant "fool me once shame on me fool me twice......."
steve, if the fish are getting sick and the food they eat has medicine in it, they are doing something wrong. if my daughter is getting sick because of the environment I put her in. Its my fault and it means i'm doing something wrong.
you have told me i'm wrong about 5 times now, and you've been out to lunch on them. so much so that I would love to join you. I would even buy. :)
I also agree that there are many other things that are effecting wild salmon stocks. some we can control and some we can't. Open pen farming is one we can. so expect people, the misinformed, the radical, the hippie, the ones with too much time on their hands, the special interest groups, and the regular ol tax payer to question the practices and voice their concerns.
who wants fish crammed together in a pen in one of the most beautiful parts of the world defecating up a storm? apparantly you and the farmers.
I have never in my life met anyone in person who supports open pen farming. not a soul. and i'm sure the people that have, can count their supporters on one hand.
I guess most citizens of this beautiful province are just as you like to put it "wrong".
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you have told me i'm wrong about 5 times now, and you've been out to lunch on them. so much so that I would love to join you. I would even buy. :)
Be careful what you offer. Steve eats a lot. Could be an expensive lunch.
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Thank you Mister Banx. I need time for my battle wounds from the farm boys to heal and I utterly lack your ability to express myself in anything near your ability to convey. Being a one finger typing kinda guy, I have to Reader's Digest my posts. I've explained clearly how an active lobstering area for generations ( my family settled there in 1751 ) in my native Nova Scotia no longer produces anything. The only thing that changed was a salmon farm was sited in the area. Obviously a smoking gun, all the response I got was there's "record lobster catches" - but not there. I've spoken at length with friends I've known since youth and they're pretty clear on what wiped out the area. The whole thing was done for a few jobs in a typically high unemployment jurisdiction. Should there be farms? Yes - on land, not in the ocean. I was impressed with David Suzuki's ideas about a feed based with maggots. Easily sustainable and would provide the protein needed without decimating other stocks.
And Steve's long posts don't annoy me. Farmfisherbawb's Pravda links do......... ;)
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as for pathogens they would have been introduced when farming started.... You said that a salmon can suffer from many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. So you agreed with me initially, then you tell me it doesn't happen? so your saying nothing was introduced ever when farming took place? that the ilnesses atlantic salmon suffer all came from pacific salmon? I will gladly read any info you can point me to regarding the introduction of atlantics here in the pacific.
Every egg introduced to support the BC farm industry was screened for pathogens at the source hatchery, screened for pathogens on arrival, reared in quarantine and screened again several times prior to being released into farm pens. That is an easy piece of information to access for anyone truly interested in the issue.
On the other hand, starting in 1905 and proceeding through until about 1935, some sixteen million Atlantic salmon were introduced as eggs, fry and smolts to various BC waters (http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/Timeline%20of%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Pacific.pdf (http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/Timeline%20of%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Pacific.pdf)). These were brought in to try and establish a resident wild population to satisfy sports fishermen. As should be immediately apparent from the dates and technologies existing at that time, these salmon were neither screened for pathogens nor quarantined.
Even a halfwit should easily be able to tell which of the situations is the likelier vector should some non-native pathogen be present in our waters.
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Every egg introduced to support the BC farm industry was screened for pathogens at the source hatchery, screened for pathogens on arrival, reared in quarantine and screened again several times prior to being released into farm pens. That is an easy piece of information to access for anyone truly interested in the issue.
On the other hand, starting in 1905 and proceeding through until about 1935, some sixteen million Atlantic salmon were introduced as eggs, fry and smolts to various BC waters (http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/Timeline%20of%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Pacific.pdf (http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/Timeline%20of%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Pacific.pdf)). These were brought in to try and establish a resident wild population to satisfy sports fishermen. As should be immediately apparent from the dates and technologies existing at that time, these salmon were neither screened for pathogens nor quarantined.
Even a halfwit should easily be able to tell which of the situations is the likelier vector should some non-native pathogen be present in our waters.
excellent, thank you, some times you need to dumb it down for us halfwits..... so if they are screened for pathogens and are deemed healthy, why do they grow up and get sick? husbandry techniques? close proximity to each other? the pacific ocean is just to virulent of an ocean to support them?
Maybe you can explain it more for me. how does a disease that was first 'discovered' in the atlantic, infecting atlantic salmon, show up in the pacific and get atlantics sick? All I have read is it 'may or or may not have been present here before'.... how did it get here with all the screening and assurance that they are healthy? back in the early 1900's when they were put in rivers for sport fishing?
now if it was always here and because the pacific salmon have high resistance to ISAv, it must be our local pacific salmon getting the atlantics sick? If thats the case, we can't let that happen. thats just bad business.
is the next logical step to elminate the source of the disease and just start culling wild pacifics?
i'm just trying to follow your reasoning.
what you tell me makes no sense. again, i'm just a halfwit. they are tested, assured, inspected, guaranteed, stamped and stickered. but they grow up and get sick? I don't know why, or how they would be getting sick with all these measures and fantastic systems you are telling me about. to quote steve is something "wrong?"
also, now maybe this logic might be lost on some of the higher IQ's on these pages. so, we dumped a bunch of atlantics up and down the coast hoping to catch them. The salmon don't take to the rivers and begin a natural life cycle. we were unaware of the future consequences that introducing an alien spcies would do. so now, 100 years later your paying the consequences? because that virus managed to stay alive here (if it didnt exist before). Thats what your telling me.... Then it can be reasoned that IF that virus was present here before the introduction of atlantic salmon and now you have atlantics getting sick, wouldn't you want them taken out of a volatile environment?
so what types of consequences are we ignoring now by keeping atlantics in open pens in the pacific ocean? the ocean floor is pretty much void of life under most farms. and thats in a few short years.... you have currents flowing past these pens moving all sorts of waste products, food, feces, spent meds all over the ocean.
you would think maybe chile and norway would be good examples for us. But no, our scientists are smarter here, are rules are the strictes in the world and we have the husbandry techniques to make sure we don't ruin the ocean and our wild stocks. I'm lookin to buy a bridge, anyone have one for sale?
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If my posts annoy you, simply do not read them NB. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/we-sure-don%E2%80%99t-want-be-canoe-water-brothers
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The conclusions that i'm drawing from that link is that antifarm crowd, and this would probably go for a high, I might say 63-68%** of the population is the same way.... that we are ignoring the facts because we are stubborn and have our own misinformed view. regardless............... It would be interesting if this site conducted a survey of how many support open pen farming. or has this been done already?
Also, that the farming industry needs communication sites, not related to public relations at all mind you, so that they can raise "positive aquaculture awareness". That awareness is necessary, because theres a whole lot of misinformed people out there corrupting the general populations mind with all their crazy shennanigans.
That we are ignoring the plain and simple facts presented in front of us.
But I'm not ignoring.... I'm asking, which I really feel are not ignorant questions. About why you think, or why things have taken place, or why things go wrong. To ask you questions such as; well what are the long term consequences? your answers are "well no one knows" and I'm supposed to say "great, continue on" ???
it's interesting.... because the basic information I derive my conclusions from are very simple. This process is done in an open ocean where you really have no idea what the long term consequences will be... drugs are used, though prescribed, flowing around in currents. Also there are issues with waste control and close proximity. There is of course the future potential of antibiotic resistance. Are these conclusions wrong?
I am pretty sure you would want me in your canoe man.
I am glad the science is sound, I would hope so being that we are canadian, but the confidence put in it to perpetuate this......process, is like I said, optimistic at best.
I hope your right, really. I really really hope you guys are right, that all this is cool. Just remember guys, beef farmers never anticipated mad cow disease, and they still don't know where it came from. Salmon farming is still in its infancy, and I'm sure terrestrial farmers hundreds of years ago probably had the same confidence you have now.
I had to find it again but I read a 'survey' of sorts a while back. http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/cabinet/Competitiveness_Survey.pdf
it's a conundrum.... it might be why I have problems with this open pen thing.
farmers were asked to rank the 7 priorities regarding research and development as it relates to the 'competitiveness of the BC farming industry' The number one priotity was fish health. I thought hell ya.... and the lowest priority is 'interaction with wild salmon'.... and that was hard to digest. mostly because this was anonymous survery with those working in the industry.
** I tried some google searches but stopped at page 4 usually. nitwit styles. :-[
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If my posts annoy you, simply do not read them NB. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/we-sure-don%E2%80%99t-want-be-canoe-water-brothers
It's more like sand in my speedo or a skeeter buzzing around me. A tiny pebble in my shoe. A pimple on my , well, you know. But you amuse me more than annoy me because it's always fish farm pravda comrade.
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excellent, thank you, some times you need to dumb it down for us halfwits..... so if they are screened for pathogens and are deemed healthy, why do they grow up and get sick? husbandry techniques? close proximity to each other? the pacific ocean is just to virulent of an ocean to support them?
I suggested that even a halfwit could understand the risk is greater by introducing large numbers of unscreened fish than by introducing screened and quarantined eggs. I don't know you so have no idea if you are a halfwit or not and therefore must defer to your judgement on that one. I'm sure that given a little thought you could answer your own questions.
Maybe you can explain it more for me. how does a , infecting atlantic salmon, show up in the pacific and get atlantics sick? All I have read is it 'may or or may not have been present here before'.... how did it get here with all the screening and assurance that they are healthy? back in the early 1900's when they were put in rivers for sport fishing?
now if it was always here and because the pacific salmon have high resistance to ISAv, it must be our local pacific salmon getting the atlantics sick? If thats the case, we can't let that happen. thats just bad business.
When was ISAv found here? I'm assuming that is the "disease that was first 'discovered' in the atlantic" you are referring to, though you aren't clear enough in what you are saying to be sure.
is the next logical step to elminate the source of the disease and just start culling wild pacifics?
i'm just trying to follow your reasoning.
That's not my reasoning. You arrived at that completely without my help.
what you tell me makes no sense. again, i'm just a halfwit. they are tested, assured, inspected, guaranteed, stamped and stickered. but they grow up and get sick? I don't know why, or how they would be getting sick with all these measures and fantastic systems you are telling me about. to quote steve is something "wrong?"
I'll just refer you back to paragraph one. Screening is done to prevent transmission of pathogens with the eggs. Quarantine is a part of that process. There is no guarantee that the fish will not be infected by an endemic pathogen once it is placed in the pen just as there is no guarantee you won't catch a cold or develop hepatitis even though you had neither when you were born.
also, now maybe this logic might be lost on some of the higher IQ's on these pages. so, we dumped a bunch of atlantics up and down the coast hoping to catch them. The salmon don't take to the rivers and begin a natural life cycle. we were unaware of the future consequences that introducing an alien spcies would do. so now, 100 years later your paying the consequences? because that virus managed to stay alive here (if it didnt exist before). Thats what your telling me.... Then it can be reasoned that IF that virus was present here before the introduction of atlantic salmon and now you have atlantics getting sick, wouldn't you want them taken out of a volatile environment?
What Atlantics are getting sick and what are they sick with?
so what types of consequences are we ignoring now by keeping atlantics in open pens in the pacific ocean? the ocean floor is pretty much void of life under most farms. and thats in a few short years.... you have currents flowing past these pens moving all sorts of waste products, food, feces, spent meds all over the ocean.
Instead of taking license with your words, apparently quite acceptable for you even if it's not for the farm industry, why don't you regale us with some specifics? How much "void of life" ocean floor is under the pens and how do you know it is void of life? Had a look for yourself? How much "waste products, food, feces, spent meds all over the ocean" are we talking here and specifically what is being put at risk? Can you support your hyperbole with some actual specifics?
you would think maybe chile and norway would be good examples for us. But no, our scientists are smarter here, are rules are the strictes in the world and we have the husbandry techniques to make sure we don't ruin the ocean and our wild stocks. I'm lookin to buy a bridge, anyone have one for sale?
No, you would think that. People more concerned with a rational analysis would compare the similarities and differences between the three environments and take the lessons that were appropriate for our situation, and wouldn't you know it, that's pretty much what happens.
I can appreciate that you have a fairly strong opinion about salmon farming and you're certainly welcome to it. I can also appreciate that, as you've specifically said yourself, you don't know much about the subject. Given those two rather contradictory points in combination with your obvious taste for an argument, I can only surmise that it would be a fairly substantial waste of time to try and address your concerns. Perhaps someone else might be interested.
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I suggested that even a halfwit could understand the risk is greater by introducing large numbers of unscreened fish than by introducing screened and quarantined eggs. I don't know you so have no idea if you are a halfwit or not and therefore must defer to your judgement on that one. I'm sure that given a little thought you could answer your own questions.
When was ISAv found here? I'm assuming that is the "disease that was first 'discovered' in the atlantic" you are referring to, though you aren't clear enough in what you are saying to be sure.
That's not my reasoning. You arrived at that completely without my help.
I'll just refer you back to paragraph one. Screening is done to prevent transmission of pathogens with the eggs. Quarantine is a part of that process. There is no guarantee that the fish will not be infected by an endemic pathogen once it is placed in the pen just as there is no guarantee you won't catch a cold or develop hepatitis even though you had neither when you were born.
What Atlantics are getting sick and what are they sick with?
Instead of taking license with your words, apparently quite acceptable for you even if it's not for the farm industry, why don't you regale us with some specifics? How much "void of life" ocean floor is under the pens and how do you know it is void of life? Had a look for yourself? How much "waste products, food, feces, spent meds all over the ocean" are we talking here and specifically what is being put at risk? Can you support your hyperbole with some actual specifics?
No, you would think that. People more concerned with a rational analysis would compare the similarities and differences between the three environments and take the lessons that were appropriate for our situation, and wouldn't you know it, that's pretty much what happens.
I can appreciate that you have a fairly strong opinion about salmon farming and you're certainly welcome to it. I can also appreciate that, as you've specifically said yourself, you don't know much about the subject. Given those two rather contradictory points in combination with your obvious taste for an argument, I can only surmise that it would be a fairly substantial waste of time to try and address your concerns. Perhaps someone else might be interested.
absolon, I don't think I'm smart enough to answer my own questions. maybe you and steve are the only ones who are actually able to answer your own questions.
well heres ISAv here
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/virus-present-in-bc-salmon-for-decades-inquiry-told/article4247764/
"Infectious salmon anemia, a virus that has triggered devastating disease outbreaks in stocks of farmed Atlantic salmon around the world, appears to have been in British Columbia wild salmon for at least 25 years, the Cohen commission of inquiry has heard."
Things that get atlantics sick: sea lice, ISAv, kudoa, Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis, Furunculosis, Bacterial Kidney Disease.
How much food, meds and waste is dumped into the ocean?
well thats a great question.... and all we really know is
"Despite the low relative usage of antibiotics in aquaculture compared to other food production systems their use remains an issue of concern as aquaculture is often practiced in relatively pristine environments and the exact quantities applied directly to water is not available in some jurisdictions. Available data show that large quantities of antibiotics have been applied in Chile over a generally small geographic area. In Canada the quantity of antibiotics prescribed per metric ton of production is also high compared to Norway or Scotland. Use of large quantities may indicate disease problems related to husbandry or to resistance buildup in fish. It has also been suggested that this use of large volumes of antibiotics can be explained by excessive and prophylactic use"
CHEMICAL USE IN SALMON AQUACULTURE: A REVIEW OF CURRENT PRACTICES AND POSSIBLE ENVIRONMENTAL EFFECTS
Les Burridge1, Judith Weis2, Felipe Cabello3 and Jaime Pizarro4
also "Antibiotic treatment in aquaculture is achieved by medicated baths and medicated food. In both cases, the likelihood exists for antibiotics to pass into the environment, affecting wildlife, remaining in the environment for extended periods of time and exerting their antibiotic effects. Concerns regarding the use of large amounts of antibiotics in aquaculture are multiple. They include selection of antibiotic-resistant bacteria in piscine normal flora and pathogens as well as
2
effects due to the persistence of antibiotics and antibiotic residues in sediments and water column. These persistent antibiotics select for antibiotic-resistant free-living bacteria thereby altering the composition of normal marine and freshwater bacterial flora. Evidence suggests that these antibiotic-resistant organisms in the marine environment will, in turn, pass their antibiotic resistance genes to other bacteria including human and animal pathogens. Because of their toxicity to microorganisms, antibiotics may also affect the composition of the phytoplankton community, the zooplankton community and even the diversity of populations of larger animals.
In this manner, potential alterations of the diversity of the marine microbiota produced by antibiotics may alter the homeostasis of the marine environment and affect complex forms of life including fish, shellfish, marine mammals, and human beings. Use of large quantities of antibiotics in aquaculture thus has the potential to be detrimental to fish health, to the environment and wildlife, and to human health. For all these reasons, excessive antibiotic use in aquaculture should be of high concern to the aquaculture industry and its regulators, to public officials dealing with human and veterinary health and with the preservation of the environment, and to non-governmental organizations dealing with these issues."
and thats ok with you? :o
This table could be referenced I believe.
"The following products are registered for use as antibiotics in Canada:
Oxytetracycline, trimethoprim80%/sulphadiazine20%, sulfadimethoxine80%/ormetoprim20%, florfenicol. Table 2.3 shows the quantities of antibiotic actually applied in Canada (2003) and British Columbia (BC) from 2004 through 2006. While BC produces the majority of Atlantic salmon grown in Canada, there is a significant salmon aquaculture industry on Canada’s east coast. Table 2.3. Total antibiotic use in Canadaa or for British Columbia onlyb
U2003Ua U2004Ub U2005Ub U2006Ub
Total antibiotics 30,343 Kg* 18,530 Kg 12,103 Kg 7,956 Kg
and what atlantics are getting sick? well thats the easiest question you've asked.
http://forargyll.com/2013/10/norway-orders-killing-of-2-million-farm-salmon-with-sea-lice-to-protect-wild-salmon/
that was oct 10th. last week. and I am pretty sure I don't have to link every mass killing because someone here has already posted it. And since you know everything there is to know about aquaculture I am sure your aware of the 'cullings' in chile, our east coast and our coast. Because the fish got sick.
our coast....... “The fish were 400 grams and there were about 400 tonnes. Financial losses are expected to be in the millions,” said Mainstream spokeswoman Laurie Jensen.
Grieg has destroyed about 316,000 fish, said Grieg managing director Stewart Hawthorn. Financial losses have not yet been evaluated." http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Virus+confirmed+salmon+farms+cull+fish/7074308/story.html
you can also google image search 'ocean floor under salmon farms' pretty great scenery. and no I haven't put on scuba gear and swam under a farm. I'm only basing my judgement on other peoples personal views and photos. People that generally have nothing to gain. Maybe a farmer has a gopro camera and can take some nice pics for us.
some fellow named Absolon said "there is no guarantee that the fish will not be infected by an endemic pathogen once it is placed in the pen" regardless of the measures in place. Also and this is my point, which you and uncle stevey fail to recognize. Is that with all the bells and whistles you don't know why fish get sick.
so don't put them in a pen in the OCEAN to raise them, sell em as food and tell me they are delicious.
you guys are trying to make a case to support rape basically. cause thats my whole view on this. That regardless of everything your telling me that is used to 'control' the process, it isn't working.
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"I asked you who these “hired companies” are and have not received an answer"
Get a life, you know a sure as slice that one group is EWOS types who produce the feed for them dirty fish. Man talk about tossing red herring around. Fibfarmerbob quote right from the other ones.
They make fish food. Using your logic (and banx's flawed logic) Save-On-Foods is a hired company which is a paid lobby group for the beef industry. Thanks for the comedy.
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steve. I just gave you a site that was a total public relations company. and quoted them.... those are all public relation fronts.
"working to protect wild salmon" which is hilarious.
of course i'm going to use and manipulate the language to get my point across. its called articulation. having a vocabulary. You do it with your eloquent posts that probably keep 98% of the people from saying anything because they don't want to be made foolish.
steve.... I'm not knocking the science. I've told you that. It is tough to digest when it's paid for by a special interest. regardless of which side of the fence they sit on. like the irony of "truth in advertising" and I will repeat I'm not a morton fan or supporter, I don't know why you keep talking about her when you reply to me.
as for pathogens they would have been introduced when farming started.... You said that a salmon can suffer from many pathogens and not suffer from a disease. So you agreed with me initially, then you tell me it doesn't happen? so your saying nothing was introduced ever when farming took place? that the ilnesses atlantic salmon suffer all came from pacific salmon? I will gladly read any info you can point me to regarding the introduction of atlantics here in the pacific. Especially if it's related to early diseases and viruses.
is that why there are such stringent regulations in place? "some of the strictest in the world" as you said.
steve they use drugs, these drugs flow into the open oceans which you have no idea what they do to other animals. what more needs to be clarified? its drugs in the ocean. thats the bottom line. you can quote husbandry techniques and say its vet prescribed. but guess what, its the open ocean. is that not correct? tell me that open net pens are not in the ocean. please tell me.
your paragrpah beginning with "third" makes my point for me, yet again.... thanks. This may be just a wild assumption, as i'm no scientist or fish farmer. But my understanding is that when animals, fish in this case are in close proximity to each other they get sick at a much higher rate than they would in the wild or if they had more 'space'. is that wrong also?
so the spin regarding sea lice was true. yet you expect to have complete confidence in the farms public relations department now. one great mind named shuswapsteve once told me something brilliant "fool me once shame on me fool me twice......."
steve, if the fish are getting sick and the food they eat has medicine in it, they are doing something wrong. if my daughter is getting sick because of the environment I put her in. Its my fault and it means i'm doing something wrong.
you have told me i'm wrong about 5 times now, and you've been out to lunch on them. so much so that I would love to join you. I would even buy. :)
I also agree that there are many other things that are effecting wild salmon stocks. some we can control and some we can't. Open pen farming is one we can. so expect people, the misinformed, the radical, the hippie, the ones with too much time on their hands, the special interest groups, and the regular ol tax payer to question the practices and voice their concerns.
who wants fish crammed together in a pen in one of the most beautiful parts of the world defecating up a storm? apparantly you and the farmers.
I have never in my life met anyone in person who supports open pen farming. not a soul. and i'm sure the people that have, can count their supporters on one hand.
I guess most citizens of this beautiful province are just as you like to put it "wrong".
You are one very confused person right now. I never said that pathogens cannot lead to disease. As for me “saying that nothing was introduced ever when farming took place here” I provided you a very detailed response. I am not going to waste my time saying it again. Secondly, what pathogens are you talking about it? What has been introduced? Absolon is also trying to get an answer from you on this, but like a good “public relations company” you are doing your best to avoid questions. If you are talking about IHNv it is an endemic virus that has been around our waters long before fish farming. There is a very long thread on this site already regarding IHN so go search for that if you want more details. Pacific Salmon adults are largely immune IHN, but can carry the virus – IHNv. They then can pass this virus onto Atlantic Salmon which have no resistance to IHN. If you are talking about ISAv please state where it has been found here. If Atlantic Salmon and Pacific Salmon here are getting sick from ISA please where.
your paragrpah beginning with "third" makes my point for me, yet again.... thanks. This may be just a wild assumption, as i'm no scientist or fish farmer. But my understanding is that when animals, fish in this case are in close proximity to each other they get sick at a much higher rate than they would in the wild or if they had more 'space'. is that wrong also?
Made your point…lol? You sure like to pat yourself on the back for not understanding the topic. Obviously you forgot the high survival rate of Atlantic Salmon on BC fish farms. If you are talking about IHN outbreaks on BC fish farms do you know the frequency of occurrences? The fact is that outbreaks are not very frequent (the last major one was 2003 I believe). You are also forgetting that farmed fish here are vaccinated (not medication) which contributes to a high survival rate. I never said that farmed fish will never get sick, but the industry here keeps that mortality rate very low and it is not all because of drugs. Antibiotics are not used in high quantities. If you are fearful of drugs in the ocean then you should be more concerned about what is being treated by municipal wastewater systems. Where are all these sick Atlantics that are constantly getting sick on BC fish farms to the point where it is a chronic problem? Again, visit a fish farm or a fish hatchery and get informed.
Maybe you can explain it more for me. how does a disease that was first 'discovered' in the atlantic, infecting atlantic salmon, show up in the pacific and get atlantics sick? All I have read is it 'may or or may not have been present here before'.... how did it get here with all the screening and assurance that they are healthy? back in the early 1900's when they were put in rivers for sport fishing?
now if it was always here and because the pacific salmon have high resistance to ISAv, it must be our local pacific salmon getting the atlantics sick? If thats the case, we can't let that happen. thats just bad business.
Explain it to you more…lol? How did it get here with all the screening, you ask? Maybe read the Cohen Final Report for starters. Apparently you have been reading the technical reports so I should not have to prompt you. Maybe read what Dr. Miller says about her findings about the ISAv-like sequences she found; whether it is known or not to cause disease. Maybe read what Justice Cohen concluded about the presence of ISAv and ISA in our waters? Did you notice the date of the G&M article and when the Cohen Report was released? I provided you a page from the report to start from unless Cohen is a “public relations company” that can’t be trusted….lol. Of course I already told you that if ISA were on BC fish farms what the result could be.
Things that get atlantics sick: sea lice, ISAv, kudoa, Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis, Furunculosis, Bacterial Kidney Disease.
Do you know what Kudoa is? Obviously not or you would not have made such a grand conclusion; however, you likely already patted yourself on the back for that one. The fact is that it does not get Atlantics sick. Instead it impacts the quality of the flesh by softening it. It is usually not noticed until the fish is sold. Kudoa is also found in wild fish on our coast and other coastal areas. I can tell you about some other endemic parasites that wild Pacific Salmon have that will twist your stomach.
some fellow named Absolon said "there is no guarantee that the fish will not be infected by an endemic pathogen once it is placed in the pen" regardless of the measures in place. Also and this is my point, which you and uncle stevey fail to recognize. Is that with all the bells and whistles you don't know why fish get sick.
We don't know why Atlantic Salmon that get sick with IHN?? I just told you. In fact there is huge thread on this already on this site. You are indeed a very confused person.
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They make fish food. Using your logic (and banx's flawed logic) Save-On-Foods is a hired company which is a paid lobby group for the beef industry. Thanks for the comedy.
Blinders on Shteve. Fish pharmaceutical companies and so called fish farm vets who proscribe tasty things like slice are big players in pushing the dirty fish onto the plate. Thanks for the blind comic reply but take them off once in a while. it's always darkest under the netpen. ;D
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I included kudoa as it was asked "what gets atlantics sick" so I listed them off.... was it wrong to include it? it appears it does. I am well aware of some of the things that effect our native pacific salmon and have actually emailed several pictures to DFO over the years. particularly the incredible increase in the amount of 'zitted' coho I have been catching.
confused, no, concerned yes.
I will begin reading the other parts of the cohen report and see what kind of ignorant questions I can muster for you. I know that after I finish reading the rest of the recommendations your fingers will be getting a stretch on the ol keyboard. ;D
http://deptwildsalmon.org/results/wild/ public reations for the antifarm crowd, but it shows dr.millers discoveries
and you guys: ""Farm-raised Atlantic salmon, unlike their Pacific cousins, are susceptible to ISA, so this is a concern for our operations, but much less likely to be an issue for the different Pacific species," said Stewart Hawthorn, Managing Director for Grieg Seafood. "If these results are valid, this could be a threat to our business and the communities that rely on our productive industry."
The results were reportedly found in juvenile Sockeye smolts in Rivers Inlet - an area north of most salmon farms. These fish would not have passed aquaculture operations, but our farmers remain concerned about what this means, and how the disease, which is not native to British Columbia, may have been introduced.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/suspect-findings-isa-concern-bcs-salmon-farmers
so you guys don't know where it came from, and its carried by pacific salmon... thats the information I'm reading.
and Dr.Miller: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/virus-present-in-bc-salmon-for-decades-inquiry-told/article4247764/
Infectious salmon anemia, a virus that has triggered devastating disease outbreaks in stocks of farmed Atlantic salmon around the world, appears to have been in British Columbia wild salmon for at least 25 years, the Cohen commission of inquiry has heard.
The ISA virus – or a new variation of it – has been found repeatedly in samples of wild sockeye and pink salmon, as well as in samples of farmed chinook taken from one West Coast aquaculture operati
No lethal virus in Pacific salmon, CFIA says
That revelatory evidence was given on Thursday, by Kristi Miller, head of molecular genetics at the federal Pacific Biological Station in Nanaimo.
“I clearly believe that there is a virus here that is very similar to the ISA virus in Europe … [but]we have not established that it causes disease,” said Dr. Miller.
She was one of four experts on ISA called to testify about a recent series of conflicting test results that have raised questions about whether the virus is present on the West Coast or not.
In October, sockeye salmon collected by Simon Fraser University researchers were tested at an East Coast lab and several samples were found positive for ISA. But follow-up testing by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency failed to replicate the results. As other labs got into the picture, some got positive results, while others didn’t.
Intrigued by the SFU discovery, Dr. Miller said she launched her own research effort and has concluded that the ISA virus, or something much like it, is present in both wild and farmed salmon in B.C.
Fred Kibenge, chair of the department of pathology and microbiology at the University of Prince Edward Island, which did the SFU testing, agreed with Dr. Miller’s assessment.
“In my view … I think there’s evidence there are ISAV sequences in fish samples from B.C.,” Dr. Kibenge said. “I think the result is credible. Now, whether it’s ISA or ISA-virus-like, that requires some work.”
Dr. Miller said her tests found a virus that is 95-per-cent similar to the European strain of ISA, which has infected farmed Atlantic salmon in Norway, Scotland, Atlantic Canada and Chile.
She said when her tests detected ISA in fish collected this year, she went back into the laboratory’s storage lockers and pulled out samples of fish from as far back as 1986 – and found ISA there too, showing the virus has been present at least 25 years.
Dr. Miller said the ISA virus has now been confirmed in numerous wild fish, and in chinook samples provided by Creative Salmon, a fish farm on Vancouver Island.
Dr. Miller said Creative was the only fish farm that co-operated with her research efforts, and she had not been able to get samples from other farms in B.C.
“They did not want their samples to be tested,” she said of the farms, which mostly raise Atlantic salmon.
The ISA disease can be lethal to Atlantic salmon, but lab tests suggest it does not kill Pacific salmon.
However, a report by Brad Davis, a postdoctoral fellow working with Dr. Miller, indicates that fish with the virus react in a way that “suggests that the virus is causing enough damage to elicit a strong response in the salmon. … Therefore, we cannot at this point assume that this virus does not cause disease in these fish.”
The panel members all agreed that the conflicting results between labs could be the result of different techniques.
Ms. Gagné said the ISA virus was first detected on the East Coast in 1990, and research showed it was a different strain from the European virus.
“It could be we are really looking at another [third kind of]ISA,” she said.
My confused mind tells me that if the environment your putting farmed salmon in, i.e crazy wild salmon carrying ISA swimming near by, that you would want to remove them from the environment. does that make sense? or is that confusing.
Steve you said "Antibiotics are not used in high quantities." That may be true, and this could all be relative. But when your measuring production in tonnes and the unit of measurement describing 'antibiotics' is in kilograms. it seems very high.... 65,000+kgs from 2002 to 2006. dumped into our BC waters. thats a lot of drugs.
and your proud of the fact that you havent had a mass culling in a few years now. awesome. thats like fox news saying america is doing something right because they haven't had a school shooting in a year.
this is what you guys sound like now.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/smoking_01.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/smoking_01.jpg.html)
and this is where I think you guys will be in a few more years.... hopefully.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/antismoke.png) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/antismoke.png.html)
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and your proud of the fact that you havent had a mass culling in a few years now. awesome. thats like fox news saying america is doing something right because they haven't had a school shooting in a year.
this is what you guys sound like now.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/smoking_01.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/smoking_01.jpg.html)
and this is where I think you guys will be in a few more years.... hopefully.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/antismoke.png) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/antismoke.png.html)
Hehehe, good stuff, I like this guy :)
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I included kudoa as it was asked "what gets atlantics sick" so I listed them off.... was it wrong to include it? it appears it does. I am well aware of some of the things that effect our native pacific salmon and have actually emailed several pictures to DFO over the years. particularly the incredible increase in the amount of 'zitted' coho I have been catching.
Hmmm....so you decided to list them off without being sure what they all were. Then you go on to reassure me that you know what you are talking about. Sounds a little like what Morton tries to do. Are you sure you don't operate your own "public relations" site? Interestingly, I see that the picture you have in your last post says, "Know Your Facts". You may want to take that advice.
I will begin reading the other parts of the cohen report and see what kind of ignorant questions I can muster for you. I know that after I finish reading the rest of the recommendations your fingers will be getting a stretch on the ol keyboard.
I already brought up Dr. Miller's retroactive work already in this thread, so what you found is not new news. However, I am glad you took more of an interest in looking at some of the findings. One thing that you have to remember is that Cohen had more than just a few experts provide testimony on ISA. For instance, Dr. Nylund (a leading authority on ISA) also provided testimony also. The report brings in the opinions of all these experts with Cohen tasked with the job of weighing the evidence from all sides. You say, "You guys don't know where it came from".....well actually no one really knows were these ISA-like sequences came from. That is why Dr. Miller adds that more work on it needs to be done. What is known is that if ISA was here we would see it on the fish farms as ISA is lethal to Atlantic Salmon. What we do know is that Pacific Salmon have been found to be largely immune to ISA. To date, ISAv or ISA has not be found on BC fish farms. This evidence was provided to the commission.
As for Dr. Miller's discovery of the ISA virus in Chinook samples provided by Creative Salmon there is more to that story than what you have portrayed. First, the Dr. Miller's study of the ISA virus in those fish also found that the prevalence of that virus was the same in healthy fish as it was in sick fish. Second, the results from that study were linked to a data from a licenced veterinarian sampled the fish and a board certified veterinary pathologist that examine sections of organs under a microscope. This way it was obvious to see that the sick fish were sick and the healthy fish were healthy. This suggests that whatever Dr. Miller was finding was not the cause of disease in those Chinook Salmon.
As for the report by Brad Davis, it should be noted that this conclusion was based ignoring or changing data, according to Dr. Gary Marty (Provincial Fish Health Veterinarian).
https://www.professionalbiology.com/sites/default/files/bionews/BioNews22-1-electronic.pdf
(Note: Not from those dreaded “public relation” sites operated by the BC fish farm industry or anti-fish farm activists)
My confused mind tells me that if the environment your putting farmed salmon in, i.e crazy wild salmon carrying ISA swimming near by, that you would want to remove them from the environment. does that make sense? or is that confusing.
Well, your confused mind should realize that morts on fish farms are tested for exotic and endemic diseases. The province operated a surveillance program, prior to feds taking over, that tested over 4,700 farmed salmon in BC. These results were reported annually by the province when they were in charge of this. Recently dead fish are targeted for disease sampling because it increases the likelihood of finding disease instead of randomly sampling live fish where most would be healthy. Samples are collected for bacteriology, histopathology and molecular diagnostics/virology. To date, there has been no confirmed case of ISA on BC fish farms. So, when you say that we don't know why these fish get sick that is actually false.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/ahc/fish_health/
(Note: Not taken from those dreaded "public relations" sites you don't like)
Steve you said "Antibiotics are not used in high quantities." That may be true, and this could all be relative. But when your measuring production in tonnes and the unit of measurement describing 'antibiotics' is in kilograms. it seems very high.... 65,000+kgs from 2002 to 2006. dumped into our BC waters. thats a lot of drugs.
Are assuming that the "drugs" being used have not been studied and tested for use in Canada? I am interested in hearing the impact you are seeing here instead of "I think this is going to happen".
and your proud of the fact that you havent had a mass culling in a few years now. awesome. thats like fox news saying america is doing something right because they haven't had a school shooting in a year.
Not a question of being "proud". Just stating a fact that you overlooked while you were implying that sickness on BC salmon farms was a big problem.
steve, if the fish are getting sick and the food they eat has medicine in it, they are doing something wrong. if my daughter is getting sick because of the environment I put her in. Its my fault and it means i'm doing something wrong.
Seeing as though you agree that there are similarities with land based agriculture (i.e. beef) you should realize that farmers and ranchers, who use the "environment" also, do not just sit around and watch what their crops or cattle suffer without taking any action to remedy the situation. Those remedies can be chemical treatments, procedural changes (i.e. not raising chickens in close proximity to pigs) or actions which may negatively impact surrounding fish and wildlife. I am pretty sure that you are a consumer of those products. Are you doing something wrong or are they doing something wrong? Has your daughter ever been immunized or taken medication for an illness like a cold or the flu? Is the doctor doing something wrong by providing a medicine prescription or should you just pull your daughter out of public school because that could be a likely source of future sickness. Does she go back to school if it is possible that others there can be sick (now or sometime in the future) or do you just provide home schooling for the rest of her life?.
this is what you guys sound like now.
I agree with nibbles that is kind of humorous, but as I indicated earlier you might want to brush up on the facts that are out there now instead of manufacturing them (sort of like what Morton does).
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Blinders on Shteve. Fish pharmaceutical companies and so called fish farm vets who proscribe tasty things like slice are big players in pushing the dirty fish onto the plate. Thanks for the blind comic reply but take them off once in a while. it's always darkest under the netpen. ;D
People such as yourself are small players in the realm of factual information, but mighty large in the arena of delusion.
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People such as yourself are small players in the realm of factual information, but mighty large in the arena of delusion.
Fur sumwon wuth a grate beeg edukashun ids reel nyce thet a gooroo lyke ewe kin com downn fromm thet ther mountin to hep us liddle peeple innerstand bedder. Weer ill jest ignernt rednex wuth know ideer wat weere tawkin' aboot. Id's gud too no ewe er th unly won thet nos all th facs end ar the beeall an enzall fer infoo un th fush ferms. Effter ell, yur a BEEG playyer en I figger id's nyce thet ewe kin hobb nobb wuth us liddle fooks. Ded eye menshun weere ell jest ignernt rednex?
Thenk Ewe Steeve! Ell Hale Steeve!
Speaking of delusional..... ::)
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steve, I wasn't going to reply until I finished reading the cohen report... I still have 2/3rds or so to go...
like I said about kudoa, you asked what gets them sick. so i listed it. I read what it is, and in fact it effects atlantic salmon all over this planet.
That being said. My daughter gets sick she stays home. an extra day too.... so she doesn't go to school and get other kids sick.... Up north the classes are smaller so they aren't packed in like atlantic salmon in a net pen. ;)
My daughter will not get a flu shot. She doesn't get meds for a cold either, becuase meds don't kill the cold virus, they just mask the symptoms. so it's tea and honey and a movie on the couch.
when she was a baby she got immunized. Will probably get the 'mandatory' shots in grade 9 when she gets there.
I am a consumer of beef and chicken (also moose and pacific salmon). However, its antibiotic free and grass fed. I grew up up north and my parents being immigrants would buy half cows and shoot moose. They also traded wine for fish. I rarely eat fast food... and I rarely eat pork. bacons pretty hard to ignore though.
I put my wallet where my mouth is man. Cows aren't supposed to eat corn and fish aren't supposed to eat pellets.
I also haven't manufactured any facts....... and If ISA was not found on any farms, why would Dr.Miller say she wasn't able to attain any samples? were some provided after the report was commissioned?
and Steve, who the bleep cares if the 'drugs' were tested and safe to use in canada. We have problems already from domestic water treatment plants and people dumping their own prescriptions down the toilet.
65,000+ kgs of drugs in 4 years dumped into the water. the 'average' dump truck holds 13 tons. and 72 tons or so was dumped into the ocean.... so nearly 6 full dump truck loads.
in 4 years..... and your telling me I shouldn't be worried about what-ifs.
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People such as yourself are small players in the realm of factual information, but mighty large in the arena of delusion.
Well to amuse my small brain I decided to see who the big brain people who give us the low down from one of Fibfarmerbobs sources.
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Positive Aquaculture Awareness Executive
President: Cory Percevault
Vice President: Leanne Brunt
Secretary/Treasurer: Blair Billard
Education: Kevin Onclin, Tom Skillman
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http://www.salespider.com/b-127377576/noboco-styro-containers-ltd
--------------------------------------------------------
So one of the exclusive members of the Aquaculture Delusional Executive works for a company that sells those enviromentally friendly styrofoam containers to the dirty fish group. Guess which one Shteve? I could go on providing links to the fish pharmacutical compamies but why bother. Your already living in a certain reality and would not appreciate the effort. Bon apetit eating them dirty fish off a styrofoam plate. ;)
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Interesting article on page 102. :)
http://www.businessworld-magazine.com/digital_magazine/2013/oct/files/mobile/index.html#1
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Interesting article on page 102. :)
http://www.businessworld-magazine.com/digital_magazine/2013/oct/files/mobile/index.html#1
Doesn't work for me ..
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Doesn't work for me ..
Me neither, but then it's probably just as well.
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Weird format. Basically didn't work for me either.
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Darn. >:( I was so looking forward to another of Farmfisherbawb's always (dis)interesting and (un)informative links. They're always like a ray of sunshine on a rainy day, a warm jacket on a cold windy day. The cream in my coffee. The topping on my sundae. ;) :o ::)
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Worked fine on my iPhone
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Doesn't work for me ..
This one might work. Page changing arrows are at the top of the page.
http://www.businessworld-magazine.com/digital_magazine/2013/oct/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#1
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No fish farming in Alaska???? Too funny. Scroll down for 2 more good write ups :)
http://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
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that was interesting.
This was my favourite part though... page 115
"the industry to grow into an eco-
nomically and socially vibrant part of the
British Columbia landscape, all culminat-
ing with BC farmed salmon internation-
ally recognized as a naturally healthy and
environmentally responsible product that
adheres to global standards for quality
and sustainability. That recognition has
been largely supported through the ef-
forts of BCSFA and what Walling affirms
as “Communications, communications,
communications!”
BCSFA Executive Director Mary Ellen Walling
communications communications communications.... straight from the horses mouth. insert public relations, public relation, public relations.
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yeah - Some "business" authority ya link to there Farmfisherbawb. Would you like some background info on how the creeps at one of the business's that they're shilling in that rag went after a single mom trying to make a living and damn near broke her with a slap suit? I know this business like the back of my hand - I've been in it for over 30 years./ There's some many lies flying off that page, it looks like a Senate meeting.They claimed patent infringement until court time. Then they dropped the suit against my friend. That particular article is so full of outright BS, it smells like a dead white spring. More rubbish - but I've come to expect nothing less. ::)
At the very least Son, try a credible source.
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this made me smile this morning
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftidescanada.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Ffiles%2Fsalmon%2Fworkshop-may-2012%2FD1-1_Progress_Update_on_Two_Atlantic_Salmon_Grow-out_trials_in_Freshwater_Closed_Containment_Systems.pdf&ei=X91vUtGcA-f7igKps4GwDg&usg=AFQjCNHXF_xUleyIB7Lk2YLAONQM_p4goQ&bvm=bv.55123115,d.cGE
kind of like to see it go this way. don't need smoke and mirrors, or "communications sites" on both sides of the fence..... pages 13 and 14 specifically.
I'm almost done the cohen commission report as well. Glad to see our government as well as the farms acting on the recommendations so quickly. I mean in a year they have accomplished...... zero.
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I'm almost done the cohen commission report as well. Glad to see our government as well as the farms acting on the recommendations so quickly. I mean in a year they have accomplished...... zero.
Not so. Since Cohen there has been a moratorium on new salmon farms, and a huge sampling program of wild and farmed fish has been initiated.
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Not so. Since Cohen there has been a moratorium on new salmon farms, and a huge sampling program of wild and farmed fish has been initiated.
And little else?
http://www.cknw.com/2013/10/30/environmental-groups-says-follow-through-lacking-on-sa/
It was supposed to be a blueprint for mapping out the protection of dwindling Fraser River salmon stocks, but a year after the 26-million dollar Cohen report was released, stakeholders are not convinced that mandate is being met.
Craig Orr with the Watershed Watch Salmon Society says 14 deadlines included in the 75 recommendations have now lapsed.
He says, “That’s really not cutting it, for most people right now, because there are specific recommendations; they need a specific implementation plan, a specific time-line for implementing the recommendations, and if they committed to that, I think that would be a great outcome. If you’ve got that, please call me right away.”
Two key issues remain, ongoing threats presented by farmed salmon and the need to protect habitats.
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And little else?
These two responses to recommendations were the easiest and cheapest. Salmon farming had no plans to expand in the area so expediting that recommendation was a no brainer. The second, a comprehensive disease screening process was going to happen anyway as the science, techniques and protocols have been evolving for a while now but perhaps was pushed a bit by this 26M (you pick the word).
The hard ones to implement, the things that really impact Pacific salmon ... over fishing, climate change resulting in warmer water and changing hydrograghs , ocean acidification, habitat loss, pollution, blah, blah, will get lip service only because basically there are not enough people in this world with the mindset to repair the mess we have created.
As a stop gap to this gloom ;) ;) think of what that 26M could have done for wild salmonid habitat on a few west coast watersheds...
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I also haven't manufactured any facts....... and If ISA was not found on any farms, why would Dr.Miller say she wasn't able to attain any samples? were some provided after the report was commissioned?
Kudoa making Atlantic Salmon sick isn't manufacturing facts? Information on Kudoa is not hard to find. Google it. You don’t have to go to a “public relations site” to find out about it. It does not get fish sick. The parasite causes post-mortem softening of the flesh. ISA is apparently present here, but isn't that a manufactured fact if you have provided no evidence of its presence? Read Volume 2 and it will tell you what the experts said and didn’t say about ISA.
I am not saying that you should not be concerned, but you should be knowledgeable about salmon farming if you are going to make the claims you are making. Many of the critics of the BC fish farm industry on this forum make a lot of noise about fish farming, but have a very limited understanding of what is involved. In my opinion, if someone is going to be against something like this then they should take the time to know something about it and not rely on false perceptions. Afterwards, they do not have to agree with it, but at least they are informed.
As for Dr. Miller not being able to attain any samples there is more to that story than what farm critics will say (that is usually the case). Here is what the BC Salmon Farmers Association had to say:
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/sample_availability.pdf
Again, you should be aware that farmed salmon here have been more regularly tested than wild salmon for exotic viruses like ISAv. Again, if ISA was on BC fish farms then there would be substantial mortality – similar to what critics say happened in Chile. Again, if ISAv is detected, salmon farms in Canada are legally obligated to report it – just like it has been on the east coast of Canada. The problem is that most of the research on salmonid diseases has been directed towards pathogens that have impacted captive fish either in government fish hatcheries or salmon farms. As I eluded to before, Genome BC is going to be partnering with DFO (includes Dr. Miller) and the Pacific Salmon Foundation in a comprehensive study to collect the largest number of samples from wild and ocean-raised salmon in order to analyze the genomes of microbes as well as their presence and absence. In July this year, BC Salmon Farmers signed a transfer agreement to assist in this study. This is in stark contrast to the crude and unscientific virus surveillance program conducted by Ms. Morton.
http://www.genomebc.ca/index.php?cID=1235
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/bc-salmon-farmers-sign-transfer-agreement-genome-bc-study
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steve you are completely right. I was very wrong on the kudoa. I should have only included issues that farmed atlantics have while they are still alive. The fact that kuduo makes the meat inedible should have been excluded. :-[ I did read up on it before I posted it. and it 'was' an issue.
my apologies.
its nice to know though that was the only manufactured fact. The push you gave me to become informed has not only cemented my feelings regarding pens. It's opened my eyes to the disgusting practice even further.
The past denials through communication sites regarding sea lice. The actual TONNAGE of drugs dropped into our ocean as well as a complete ignorance towards the future and the potential consequences of open net farming. The lack of farms to move on recommendations and the amount of effort put forth to 'educate' the public.... and the visual impact of having a farm sitting in one of the most beautiful parts of the world.
What truly boggles my mind, is that someone who appears to be as intelligent as you can support such a....... crime.
if you really were as informed as you claim to be, you would know that the "need for more protein for the human population" is a farce. That a redistribution of wealth, rather, a reduction in how much food we waste would be better for the human population than putting more of these pens in pristine oceans.
The incredible amount of fish meal used to feed farmed salmon is one that needs to be eliminated completely for this to be truly sustainable...
That the incredible effort put forth, the "strictest regulations in the world" and the majority of the public opposing the practice is not enough of a deterrant to take these pens out of the ocean.
your doing your best to justify rape. and expect the vast vast majority of the population to feel the same way. and their negative feelings towards the practice will ONLY increase as they become more informed.
edit: I did read volume 2. Isa is found in pacific salmon. and if ISA gets atlantics sick, errrr actually it kills them. wouldn't you want to remove your investment from that environment? thats what a smart person would do. :-\
why are whitsle blowers condemned?
www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/fishing/docs/ISA_Fact_Sheet.pdf
At the end of October, a report emerged showing that infectious salmon anemia (ISA) had been discovered in a sample of wild salmon taken from Rivers Inlet. Since that time, the Cohen Commission, which is studying the decline of wild salmon, has reconvened. Also, a secondary analysis that reversed the first ISA findings, called the sample degraded. A few days later, several news outlets reported that Canada covered up studies going back to 2002 that found 117 wild salmon had the the ISA virus.
http://bcrainforest.com/salmon-flu-variant-found-to-have-existed-in-pacific-salmon/
In the fall of 2011, ISAv was identified in several species of Pacific salmon in British Columbia.
http://deptwildsalmon.org/pathogens/isa/
Dr. Kibenge’s testimony states when he tested 48 salmon from the west coast he found two fish who, in the test had the virus, however, newer developments quote him as saying perhaps there is a western form of ISA.
http://tumblerridgenews.com/?p=10908
"Asymptomatic infectious salmon anaemia in juvenile Onchorhynchus species from the North West Pacific Ocean," says:
Juvenile chinook (Onchorhynchus tshawytscha), chum (O. meta), coho (O. kisutch), pink (O. gorbuscha) and sockeye salmon (O. nerka) from the West Coast of Vancouver Island, Southeast Alaska, and the Bering Sea were surveyed between August 2002 and April 2003 for infectious salmon anemia virus (ISAV).
Spawning sockeye from the Cultus Lake and Kokanee from Lois Lake, BC population was also sampled. Pooled or individual tissues were tested by RT-PCR, nucleotide sequencing and virus isolation. ISAV segment 8 was amplified from 34 of 121 (28%) chinook and 15 of 88 (17%) pink salmon caught off the West Coast Vancouver Island and southeast Alaska. ISAV segment 8 was also amplified from all 64 spawning sockeye and one cultured Asiatic salmon.
The 220bp RT-PCR products were 94% to 98% homologous with Canadian ISAV isolates and 92% to 93% with European ISAV isolates. A product of 377 bp was obtained with Segment 7 ORF1 products were obtained in 5 chinook fish and the nucleotide sequence corresponded to ISAV segment 7 ORF2 products and was 95.7% identical to NBISA01 control isolate (Canadian isolate) and 99.7% identity to an ISAV isolate 810/9/99 from Norway.
ISAV segments 2, 6 and full opening frame for segment 8 were not amplified nor was ISAV isolated onto SHK or CHSE and ASK-2 cells. These results lead us to conclude that an asymptomatic form of ISA occurs among some specifies of wild Pacific salmon in the north Pacific.
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Environment/2011/11/30/infectious_salmon_anemia/
and our government says it isn't here....http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/fact-sheet/eng/1327198930863/1327199219511
"Has ISA been found in Canada?
Yes. ISA was first detected in the Atlantic area in 1996. It has been reported in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland.
ISA has not been found in the Pacific Ocean watershed or the Pacific Ocean off British Columbia."
Theres also several other sites I read from oregon and washington that says it doesn't exist.
hard to swallow when the ones with nothing to lose are the ones accused of lying.
"..........the Cohen Commission has exposed a systemic history of closeted secretiveness, hidden motives and contrived deception, all exposed since the initial October revelation that ISAv has been found in wild BC salmon. Dr. Sally Goldes, a 17-year fish health section head for the BC Environment Ministry, testified during the reconvened Cohen inquiry that “current Canada Fish Health Protection Rules do not provide a high level of regulatory security against the introduction of ISAv into British Columbia.” To underscore her concern, she noted, “If you really look closely at the regulations, from a scientific basis, there is not the high degree of protection that the government, and particularly DFO, states that they have.” In her opinion, the DFO and CFIA press conference that announced no ISAv in BC “was entirely premature.” In other words, ISAv could have leaked into BC waters from Atlantic egg sources used by salmon farms, and government agencies are systematically hiding that possibility.
Dr. Kristi Miller, one of the key DFO scientists in this process, took the initiative to do her own testing on wild and farmed salmon. She concluded that an ISA virus, or something that is 95 percent similar to the strain afflicting farmed Atlantic salmon in Norway, Scotland, Maritime Canada and Chile, is present in BC waters. And her review of DFO’s archival fish samples shows that markers for ISAv have been present in BC since 1986 – shortly after Atlantic salmon were first farmed here. A study by Dr. Molly Kibenge suggested that ISAv was here in 2004. Despite a UN convention that requires “evidence or suspicion” of ISAv to be reported, this was never done. Neither was evidence of ISAv reported to the initial phase of the Cohen Commission hearings."
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/shades-of-green-salmon-virus-cover-up-about-protecting-markets-not-fish/
also... were supposed to believe these people
"The second of three extra days of hearings at the Cohen Commission into disappearing Fraser River sockeye yielded more surprises – the biggest of which came in the form of a telling internal email strain between DFO and Canadian Food Inspection Agency staff. The emails were sent following a teleconference for media hosted by the two departments, aimed at quelling concerns over the recent discovery of Infectious Salmon Anemia virus in wild BC salmon.
In a message dated November 9, 2011, Joseph Beres, an inspection manager at the CFIA, wrote to colleague Dr. Con Kiley and other senior DFO and CFIA staff who had appeared on the conference call:
Con,
It is clear that we are turning the PR tide to our favour – and this is because of the very successful performance of our spokes[people] at the Tech Briefing yesterday – you, Stephen, Peter and Paul were a terrific team, indeed. Congratulations! One battle is won, now we have to nail the surveillance piece, and we will win the war also.
Cheers, Joe."
this is a very dangerous game of he said she said.
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/10/31/Cohen-Report-One-Year/
On Oct. 31, 2012, Mr. Justice Bruce Cohen issued his long-awaited report on the disastrous Fraser sockeye run of 2009. It runs to three extensive volumes, including a 70-page chapter with 75 carefully argued recommendations.
British Columbian advocates for wild and farmed salmon had a lot riding on Cohen's findings. They had been feuding for years about the impact, if any, of Atlantic salmon farms on the wild Pacific fish -- especially the spread of diseases and parasitic sea lice from the farm pens to the migrating salmon on their way out to sea, and again on their return to spawn.
All sides expressed satisfaction with the report. Cohen had not found the farms responsible, but neither did he entirely approve of maintaining them on sockeye migration routes. He called for a moratorium on establishing new farms in the Discovery Islands, and said all farms in that region should be banned after 2020 unless the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) could prove a minimal risk of serious harm to wild sockeye.
In the past year the controversy has continued; but what's been done about the recommendations? The Tyee asked a number of stakeholders for their thoughts on the impact of the report.
In his reply, Mr. Justice Cohen himself said he was "not able to offer any views on the impact of the report on government policy, nor am I able to offer any views on the government's response, or lack thereof, to the commission's recommendations."
"I have not discussed the report or its recommendations with policymakers, although myself and commission senior counsel, together or individually, have had an opportunity since the report was released to make presentations to some interested non-governmental groups which comprised of an overview of the content of the report and its recommendations," he added.
Others have been less reticent. On the website of the David Suzuki Foundation, Suzuki posted some thoughts on Oct. 24:
"With optimism that the federal government was taking the decline of wild salmon seriously, this independent and thorough review created a blueprint for action. What had become a contentious and polarizing issue had a direction forward.
"That clear direction, however, has been followed with near silence and little effort from the government. Although politicians say they're reviewing the report and taking actions 'consistent with the recommendations', the few steps they have taken, such as providing grants for research projects, miss the mark and don't address the significant issues and opportunities raised by Justice Cohen.
"A year has passed, the testimony is in, the evidence heard and $26 million spent. It's time for action to rebuild wild Pacific salmon runs, so this iconic fish can be shared and enjoyed for generations to come. The fate of wild salmon is too important to be left to languish in government offices. We can't go on setting up inquiries to review problems and then ignore their recommendations."
After the release of the report last year, the B.C. Salmon Farmer's Association issued a news release supporting Cohen's findings, and followed up in March 2013 with another one approving of the B.C. government's response to the report.
That response, according to a Ministry of Agriculture spokesperson, includes the government's March 2013 announcement that it would not issue any new tenure agreements for net-pen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands until Sept. 30, 2010.
In addition, the government is currently seeking public opinion for new legislation that will replace the Water Act, the spokesperson said. Cohen's report urged the province to "resolve differences" over interpretation of certain parts of the old Act.
"The B.C. government is committed to the socially and ecologically responsible management of B.C. fisheries, including an environmentally and economically sustainable aquaculture industry for the benefit of all British Columbians," the spokesperson said.
Advocates waiting on 'concise' response
Responding to a Tyee inquiry by email, the Salmon Farmer's Association director Mary Ellen Walling said she was happy to support the government's decision to accept no further applications for farm sites in the Discovery Islands, which crowd the northern end of Georgia Strait and force migrating salmon into a few narrow channels before reaching the sea.
According to a recent news release from the association, salmon farmers are hosting a series of workshops to identify possible risks to wild salmon, and are monitoring water temperatures -- "the issue Commissioner Cohen deemed 'the elephant in the room' during the release of his report," it read.
Will Soltau, sustainable fisheries and salmon farming campaign manager for the Living Oceans Society, said that the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans "has still not produced a concise response since the report was released, making it hard to judge the impact on management."
"I can point to only one recommendation that has been adopted in a timely manner -- the publication of an approved Integrated Salmon Fisheries Management Plan for 2013. To my knowledge, DFO has no implemented any other recommendations and they have missed all of the report's deadlines to date," he said.
DFO did not respond to a Tyee query by publication time. The last mention of Cohen on the department's website was a news release about Fisheries Minister Gail Shea tabling the report on Oct. 31, 2012.
'It just requires government to lead the way'
"Cohen pointed to a number of threats in his report and said he could not find a single smoking gun. In that sense he didn't change the debate over the fate of wild salmon," Living Oceans' Soltau said.
"He did, however, clearly identify a number of knowledge gaps needing to be addressed. The report is a template that should have significant impact on the fate of wild salmon. The template is there. Now, it just requires government to lead the way and take some action."
Soltau added that Living Oceans has held meetings with government officials, especially to discuss Shelter Bay and Marsh Bay, north of Port Hardy, as problems:
"Evidence presented during the Cohen Inquiry shows how these two salmon farms are in the path of the Cultus Lake sockeye salmon -- a Fraser River stock recommended for listing under the Species at Risk Act by COSEWIC. We reminded DFO about this evidence and yet they approved significant production increases, refusing to share with us the reasons for their decision. We were told to file an Access to Information request. We did and are still waiting for a response to our request."
Biologist Alexandra Morton called the Cohen Commission "a good long look behind the iron curtain of government protection of the salmon farming industry."
"I learned there is no mechanism without DFO to protect wild salmon," she said. "I also learned that there are many wonderful people in DFO who are trying to protect wild salmon, but basically they are out-numbered and out-gunned."
She quoted Cohen: "I therefore conclude that the potential harm posed to Fraser River sockeye from salmon farms is serious or irreversible."
Morton pointed out that 11 of Cohen's recommendations were intended to protect wild sockeye from the effects of salmon farms. She also mentioned a March 13, 2013 deadline Cohen had set for DFO to revise its criteria for siting new farms -- a deadline she said was ignored.
In Morton's interpretation, "Cohen is saying get the salmon farms out of the place the Fraser sockeye come into closest contact with Atlantic salmon -- unless DFO can prove the Atlantic salmon are having only minimal risk."
Discussing her own research into viruses affecting wild salmon and prey species like herring, Morton said: "Government has not reacted to the Cohen Commission, but I have, and with the support of British Columbians I am racing a viral epidemic that government has given the viruses the head start."
Limited run this year
The Cohen Commission was sparked by the fate of one year's run of the Fraser River sockeye -- 2009. According to a Sept. 13 news release from the Pacific Salmon Commission, this year's run has not seen that run's descendants bounce back.
"The estimated total return of the Fraser River sockeye salmon this season is 3,732,000 fish, which is over double the very low Fraser sockeye return in the parent brood year (2009). However, the Fraser sockeye return this season is lower than the median (50p) pre-season forecast of 4,765,000 fish," it reads.
As a result, the sockeye fishery this fall has been limited to "ceremonial and subsistence" catches by First Nations; those fishing for pinks were told their efforts must include "non-retention of sockeye."
Given the continuing fragility of the Fraser sockeye, and the importance of the fish to the whole coastal ecosystem, many British Columbians are hoping for the federal government to act more decisively on Mr. Justice Cohen's recommendations well before his report's second anniversary arrives on Oct. 31, 2014. [Tyee]
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"On Oct. 31, 2012, Justice Bruce Cohen released his 1200-page, 75-recommendation final report after three years of research, hearings and investigation into possible causes of the decline of Fraser River Sockeye. While he found no single cause, the commissioner made a long list of recommendations ranging from wild fisheries management, to improvements in hatchery operations. Eleven recommendations related to salmon aquaculture."
"While he found no single cause". 26M spent, and Doc Morton is still guessing. :)
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Here is a post you can pick apart NB. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-fisheries-news-watch-october-1-october-28-2013-salmon
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Here is a post you can pick apart NB. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-fisheries-news-watch-october-1-october-28-2013-salmon
It was all from feedlot efforts......
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/polish_a_turd_mousepad_zpsb12a5edb.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/polish_a_turd_mousepad_zpsb12a5edb.jpg.html)
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Warning, obedient listeners will not like this. :)
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/06/david-suzuki-the-fallen-saint
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26 mil.
"“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)
Wow! “Primary factors”, you say Judge? That sure sounds like the “smoking gun”!
And then this zinger:
“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…” (Volume 3, page 24).
Holy crap!"
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
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Worried about your job at the fish farm Bob?
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Worried about your job at the fish farm Bob?
Worried about your stand on this issue troutbreath?
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Worried about your stand on this issue troutbreath?
More selected material from self interest enterprizers does not worry me. People gullible enough to embrace it does. The web site bob is getting his info from is probably done by "salmon farmers" who are against "salmon ranchers". Your type of people Dave (?) just feeding off each other about who's better. Great comic relief to me alright. Worry?
----------------------------------------
About us
The purpose of this blog is to educate the public about salmon culture in Alaska by:
■explaining what salmon ranching is.
■exposing marketing campaigns that make false claims like “salmon from Alaska is 100% wild“.
■making fair benefit/impact comparisons to other fish culture techniques around the world.
■breaking through the anti-fish culture smoke screen adopted by many Alaskan fisherman, marketers and journalists.
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Worried about your job at the fish farm Bob?
Not at all TB, I am not a farmer. That is a typical question from the obedient listening crowd though. :)
Are you saying this quote is all made up TB? Oh I forgot, the obedient listeners are not allowed to answer questions.
" "“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)
Wow! “Primary factors”, you say Judge? That sure sounds like the “smoking gun”!
And then this zinger:
“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…” (Volume 3, page 24)."
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Your really clingon on that goofy website poop. Sure your not worried about the fish farming job bob.
“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…”
I don't know how you see that as a rock solid statement that the data may be accurate. But hey get it on a Tshirt and wear it to work at the fishfarm. :)
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“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…”
Now you are seeing the big picture like a good obedient listener. :) i see you read volume 3 page 24. Good for you.
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2012 seafood industry review.
http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/stats/YinReview/Seafood-YIR-2012.pdf
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Now you are seeing the big picture like a good obedient listener. :) i see you read volume 3 page 24. Good for you.
?????? Back away from the bottle buddy.
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?????? Back away from the bottle buddy.
Not bad for a dreamer. :)
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http://m.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20131106/KAMLOOPS0101/131109931/-1/kamloops01/feds-taking-action-on-sockeye-decline-minister-insists&template=JQMArticle
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http://m.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20131106/KAMLOOPS0101/131109931/-1/kamloops01/feds-taking-action-on-sockeye-decline-minister-insists&template=JQMArticle
WOW! 50 MILLION OVER 5 YEARS! thats taking the bull ($*^t) by the horns!
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My favorite part is: we haven't done very much Bc there was no smoking gun.
This government is ridiculous. I'm sure everyone was expecting a simple solution to a complex problem :o
Seems to me if there are many issues should we not be also taking a multi pronged approach?
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My favorite part is: we haven't done very much Bc there was no smoking gun.
This government is ridiculous. I'm sure everyone was expecting a simple solution to a complex problem :o
Seems to me if there are many issues should we not be also taking a multi pronged approach?
Agreed. They spent that much for Tony Clement's gazebos, not to mention a BILLION on the G 20 meeting. A national resource and priceless treasure? They dig the change out of the couch, muzzle science and drag their feet.
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The past denials through communication sites regarding sea lice. The actual TONNAGE of drugs dropped into our ocean as well as a complete ignorance towards the future and the potential consequences of open net farming. The lack of farms to move on recommendations and the amount of effort put forth to 'educate' the public.... and the visual impact of having a farm sitting in one of the most beautiful parts of the world.
I just provided you an example of how the BC fish farming industry is partnering with government and non-governmental organizations with this Fish Health Initiative. Why you continue to remain ignorant to this mystifies me because I directed you to the actual proposed study. The fact is that the BC industry supports the recommendation put forward by Cohen. It is in their best interests to get the ball rolling on this. Ironically, it is the Federal Government and fish farm activists that are involved in either shelving the recommendations or pushing the blame to subordinates below, or coming up with their own version of the recommendations which are not based in fact (i.e. Salmon Confidential).
What truly boggles my mind, is that someone who appears to be as intelligent as you can support such a....... crime.
I support defensible science and factual information. I like to look at the whole issue instead of being fixated on just one aspect. I support those that actually know what they are talking about with regards to Pacific Salmon biology or fish pathology rather than those (i.e. Morton) that know little about both and actually mislead the public in the process. I also support those that question the theories and opinions presented by anti fish farm activists instead of taking what they say at face value. If the cause of activists is so right and just then there should be no need for false claims and misinformation; however, that is exactly what we are getting. Sorry, I do not subscribe to fear mongering and the “ends justify the means” mentality of many anti-fish farm activists. If being intelligent is to throw out critical thinking, exaggerate, make false claims and be afraid to question so-called “Warriors of Wild Salmon” then I agree I have a different mind set than you do on this. What is a “crime” is to be afraid to not just question industry or government, but to not question critics of fish farming in BC out of fear of being labelled as corrupted or not loving wild salmon. If the theories presented by critics are so solid then they should have no problem defending them. More often than not, people that oppose fish farming in BC follow others –like sheep off a cliff – instead of looking at the whole issue. Furthermore, I suggest that many of these activists that claim to love wild salmon know very little about them. In my opinion, this is the type of issue where one should at least show some interest in things like Fraser Sockeye if they are going to hold them so dear to their heart. For instance, there was this one fellow on this other forum that claimed that the big return of 2010 Adams River Sockeye was because those returning Adams Sockeye adults migrated back through the Strait of Juan de Fuca and therefore missed all the salmon farms between Vancouver Island and the mainland. However, that is totally false and the information to disprove this myth is actually not hard to find if one goes to the Pacific Salmon Commission website. The fact is that at the end of August 2010, approximately 94% of the Late Run Sockeye (which includes Late South Thompson Sockeye like the Adams) diverted through Johnstone Strait.
Additionally, some activists believe that a dead fish is supposed to retain its red gills as it decomposes. If the gills are white then it is suspicious. Of course, there is no mention that migrating adult salmon that enter freshwater undergo putrefaction and cell autolysis and that this is accelerated once the fish is dead and is exposed to nature’s elements. No, instead let’s jump right to something suspicious with no evidence and blame salmon farms. Yeah, that takes intelligence. The other myth being peddled by activists are that Harrison Sockeye do not die before spawning. Similar to understanding fish farming practices in BC, if people are going to take up the cause of wild salmon then they should take the time to learn something about them or at least concede when they do not and perhaps learn something in the process.
I support the responsible work being done right now that is currently addressing some of these issues, but is not getting mentioned in the media. Unlike fish farm activists and the Federal Conservative cabinet, I support the recommendations in the Cohen Report. I believe it is a “crime” to put most of your faith in perceptions and masquerading them as facts.
if you really were as informed as you claim to be, you would know that the "need for more protein for the human population" is a farce. That a redistribution of wealth, rather, a reduction in how much food we waste would be better for the human population than putting more of these pens in pristine oceans.
If you were as informed as you claim to be you would realize that aquaculture globally is increasing each year and is not going away. Don’t take my word for it – check out information from the FAO. So, you can preach the redistribution theory till you turn blue in the face. What is not a bottomless pit has been our desire to repeatedly pillage our “pristine” oceans of wild fish species in mixed stock fisheries where weaker stocks are frequently captured with stronger ones. Really…pristine?? Of course the only impacts to our oceans are those nasty fish farms. Those primary sewage systems that pump directly into the ocean are just useful fertilizer. Yeah, humans have kept the oceans pristine before aquaculture began. Give me a break…lol. By now you must have come across the work of Randall Peterman in the report. What does he have to say? Do you believe he has some valuable information that adds to our greater understanding of the issue?
edit: I did read volume 2. Isa is found in pacific salmon. and if ISA gets atlantics sick, errrr actually it kills them. wouldn't you want to remove your investment from that environment? thats what a smart person would do.
To clarify, Pacific Salmon were experimentally infected with ISAv but were found to be largely resistant to developing the disease (ISA). In Volume 2, Dr. Kibenge stated that Pacific Salmon are not known to develop ISA (Vol. 2, Chapter 4, pg. 61). As you have found out already there is no amount of manufacturing you can do to create an epidemic of ISA here. As you have found out already in the Cohen Report, the findings were clear about what was found and what was not.
In regards to Dr. Molly Kibenge’s findings of ISAv you forgot to mention her husband’s opinion of the samples from Cultus Lake as well as the 20 blinds samples (10 positive and 10 negative in Molly Kibenge’s samples) sent to be tested at his lab at the Atlantic Veterinary College. Dr. Fred Kibenge was able to confirm that 6 of the samples were positive, but 3 of these were in Dr. Molly Kibenge’s negative samples and 3 were in her positive samples. Following that, the collective decision was to send the samples to the Moncton lab for re-testing using the same primers and kits that Dr. Molly Kibenge used. These additional tests were unable to find positive results. Further testing was done after that using the validated real-time PCR test as well as the Snow segment 8 primers. These additional tests were unable to find positive results (Cohen Final Report; Vol. 1.; Chapter 9; page 458).
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Steve, yes I am well aware of the increasing amount of aqualculture around the world. some of my philipino friends talk about about a lot of destruction to put shrimp farms in. I saw first hand the grass roots push to stop mangrove destruction in belize as well.
I have the doom and gloom attitude because us humans have a fairly dismal track record on a lot of things..... and suffered in many areas of the world because of development. History has a tendency to repeat itself unfortunately.
Again steve, I dont think i'm being ignorant to the fact that the BC salmon farming industry is trying to a better job. You guys are definitely trying. But the consequences are huge.... and with our beaurocratic process being slower than molasses its going to be years before " a proposed study" is completed and acted on..... decades is more realistic.
I just don't want you to be wrong. really.
I think they should be on land. Thats my beef. Every time I maintain my aquarium or test the water, I think how the hell are these guys doing this on a farm.... Science knows more about the moon than it does about the ocean. Thats a scary fact. But its cool to continue the practice in your eyes....
and yes there are tons of things (industries) that are also ruining our oceans. But there are regulations and testing in place (now) to try and keep environmental impacts to a minimum. it's not 1964 anymore. If your industry is heavily regulated, most others are as well....Thats pure deflection as my wife would say.
I still have a couple hundred pages left on the report too... been a lil busy.
on a side note... you should come to the fly fishing film tour on dec 5th in vancouver. I will buy you a beer and you can elaborate some more...... your helping a worthy cause.
I guarantee you no farmed atlantic salmon or wild fraser sockeye will be harmed during the evening. :)
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http://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/231778951.html?mobile=true
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Again steve, I dont think i'm being ignorant to the fact that the BC salmon farming industry is trying to a better job. You guys are definitely trying. But the consequences are huge.... and with our beaurocratic process being slower than molasses its going to be years before " a proposed study" is completed and acted on..... decades is more realistic.
First, I don't work in the BC fish farm industry as I indicated many pages ago now, so when you say "you guys" I have no idea why you are still making that association. Second, the study I mentioned is going ahead, so I shouldn't have said "proposed". Third, studies like this are not done in a few months and reported on immediately. If you want fast studies with very little regard for science then Morton is the person to put your faith into. Consequences could be high, but Cohen also indicated that there was no smoking gun either. He also didn't find evidence that salmon farms were the cause of the declines or that diseases were out of control on BC fish farms. Cohen is accepting that there is some risk posted to wild Fraser River Sockeye salmon which is understandable because there is always risk to any industry of development in and around water. In order to address whether this risk is greater he made recommendations to hopefully find the answers people are looking for. The problem is that researchers (governmental and non-governmental) have been using data sets over a relatively short time scale. This was mentioned by Josh Korman during testimony. Cohen wants to see more data collected to over a larger time scale so more definitive conclusions can be made. The study I directed you to is meant to address that. That being said, I believe there are far worse consequences/challenges on the horizon for Fraser Sockeye than fish farms. In my opinion, I believe Morton has created a public fearful of viruses and diseases to the point where critical thinking and objectively is lost. Pacific salmon have lived and will continue live with viruses and diseases if net-pens are used or not.
I think they should be on land. Thats my beef. Every time I maintain my aquarium or test the water, I think how the hell are these guys doing this on a farm.... Science knows more about the moon than it does about the ocean. Thats a scary fact. But its cool to continue the practice in your eyes....
Well, if you are still thinking about how the hell they are doing it then why do you take a tour of fish farm? It is "cool" to gather information to make informed decisions - not react to fear based on unsubstantiated claims or misinformation. That would be "uncool".
and yes there are tons of things (industries) that are also ruining our oceans. But there are regulations and testing in place (now) to try and keep environmental impacts to a minimum. it's not 1964 anymore. If your industry is heavily regulated, most others are as well....Thats pure deflection as my wife would say.
Not a deflection at all. You are the one that brought up "pristine" oceans which was like throwing me fat pitch across the plate ready to be hit out of the park. You just merely want to forget about what others are doing and focus on fish farms. Do you think grey water is always disposed of properly by good stewards of the environment? The fact is that the BC fish farm industry here is very regulated - more so than other industries that work in and around water. Look into it. The aquaculture industry here is more regulated than other places that engage in aquaculture. There are regulations and testing done on BC fish farms to try to keep environmental impacts to a minimum - it is not 1964 anymore. :)
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well steve, referring to you as "you guys" simply means you support pens in the ocean.
"Consequences could be high, but Cohen also indicated that there was no smoking gun either. He also didn't find evidence that salmon farms were the cause of the declines or that diseases were out of control on BC fish farms. Cohen is accepting that there is some risk posted to wild Fraser River Sockeye salmon which is understandable because there is always risk to any industry of development in and around water. In order to address whether this risk is greater he made recommendations to hopefully find the answers people are looking for. The problem is that researchers (governmental and non-governmental) have been using data sets over a relatively short time scale. "
So the consequences are high, the recommendations are not being acted upon and the scientific process is slow. These are great ingredients for some troubling times..... hopefully we will find some answers.
Our ocean is pristine in my eyes. Maybe you see it differently, but I'm fairly confident that they are pristine. I don't know how you think your hitting a home run here. Do you think our coast is a disaster area full of toxic substances, void of life and nothing edible?
I find that an interesting observation considering the millions of tourists that visit BC yearly to see our 'pristine' ocean and coast line. Not even including the cruise ship passengers who pay thousands for a peek of what we live in. maybe you've seen more of BC than most. But I consider BC spectacular, especially our coast.
being informed is cool. it's why I have taken the time to read the report, read the links posted... to have an educated opinion. Thats what it is now..... Like I said previously, I have visited hatceries on numerous occasions and have a friend employed by one. I might have an opportunity to visit a farm and would appreciate the learning experience. Though I have taken 'virtual' tours and seen the opposite in youtube videos.
I am well aware of what other industries do and how most are regulated. ::) I just find it ammusing, and this is obvious where we differ in opinions. Your proud and boisterous of the fact that BC has the strongest regulations regarding aqualculture in the world. you love it... it's mentioned in nearly every post.
See, I think thats not even something to be proud of.... that should be a minimal expectation. So your proud the industry is not trying to screw everything up.
maybe you really do think its 1964 because your accepting of a fact that aquaculture is TRYING TO MINIMIZE the environmental impact when they can nearly eliminate it all together.
the smoking picture I posted a while back sums it up all nicely.... Dr. Steve
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Banx, I think I have read every post by Shuswapsteve, here on FWR as well as his posts on other fishing forums. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do not recall him ever saying he is in favour of open net salmon farming. What he does continually say is do your homework, think critically, and do not just buy into the media induced phobia against salmon farms, by people with sketchy agendas (think Staniford et al).
That makes sense to me as after over 30 years of salmon farming here in BC and Washington State, there have never been any, that is a total of none, documented mortalities to wild salmon attributed to famed Atlantic's. Conversely, over those same 30 odd years how many streams have been decimated by urban encroachment? How much salmonid habitat has been lost to poor horticultural and agricultural practices? How many stocks have been overfished into near oblivion? Who would have thought that the average Fraser River summer temperature would have risen by 2 degrees in the last 50 years, or the spring freshet would be weeks earlier than the long term hydrograph, due to climate change?
You suggest the BC salmon farming industry could be stopped immediately; please inform readers, the ones who don't catch and kill their own hatchery salmon, where they should purchase a salmon to consume because BC has no wild salmon stocks with populations robust enough, commercially, to satisfy this demand. What would you propose the Province of BC do with the people who have 4-5 thousand direct jobs attributed to this industry?
Bottom line, the only people and business's who would benefit from removing salmon farms from BC is the Alaskan salmon ranching industry.
Hmmm...
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well there would be a progression I would expect. I understand the economical impact, for sure. But the environmental impacts far outweight any positive impacts $ can have. even if it is considered a 'potential'. you can not insure the water. People have adapted and changed and survived. Do you expect those four thousand people to give up, starve and die..... I wouldn't expect that. people lose jobs in industries all the time, and for greedier reasons.
Considering the highest standards incorporated in bc salmon farming, I think its a safe assumption that these same pioneers be the best to lead the way to closed containment pens.
I also appreciate where you (guys) are coming from pointing at urban development as well as other industries decimating habitat and eliminating salmon spawing streams completely. There will never be any comparison between the damage a salmon farm COULD do with what has already taken place. There is no denying that.
But what you are failing to recognize, and I wish I could be more articulate instead of emotional, but there is a change happening. People are starting to care. they are working and volunteering. In those 30 years of farms your talking about, streams that were struggling to sustain life are now having positive changes. You can see it here in the lower mainland in particular. There is a lot of hatchery work, but things are looking better than they are worse.
If people are starting to see positive changes in their immediate environment its only natural that it would progress to areas not to far away.... ie our pristine oceans.
you see it in the political arena and expect salmon farms to be a future corncern for more people as they become more educated. the pipeline is an obvious example..... I had a hard time watching salmon confidential. Mostly that I couldn't believe that was happening in BC, that what they were portraying couldn't be taking place.... theres no way...an exageration. I don't support morton and some of the stuff I've read on my side of the fence seems far fetched at best.
but there is no denying that this 'industry' is better off on land for all of us. It needs to start at some point, and now is as good as any.
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Just buy American and all will be fine. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
But on the brighter side. :)
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/231953481.html?mobile=true
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Bottom line, the only people and business's who would benefit from removing salmon farms from BC is the Alaskan salmon ranching industry.
Hmmm...
Is it not true that 98% of the fish farms are owned by Norwegian interests.Surely most revenues would not stay in the country.Whats the benefit for us ?
Is it also true that most of the exports go to the US.
Why would we continue on this road, so we can provide the US with cheap farmed fish at the expense of our environment .
Surely the jobs lost can be found elsewhere supportting a sport fishing industry or tourism.
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Just buy American and all will be fine. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
WOW! Did Canada take over the US while I was sleeping? Or did we just take over Alaska? Because I know we had ZILCH influence on American policies when I went to sleep last night.
But on the brighter side. :)
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/231953481.html?mobile=true
And how was the sockeye return this year?
Divert and deflect farmfisherbawb.....monotonous, at the very best, ridiculous in reality. Lots of slobs toss garbage around the rivers ::) :o- if they're doing it, so should I?
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Is it not true that 98% of the fish farms are owned by Norwegian interests.Surely most revenues would not stay in the country.Whats the benefit for us ?
Is it also true that most of the exports go to the US.
Why would we continue on this road, so we can provide the US with cheap farmed fish at the expense of our environment .
Surely the jobs lost can be found elsewhere supportting a sport fishing industry or tourism.
Succinct point. Why make a mess of our waters to feed Americans dirty fish and line the pockets of Foreign pirates. As far as jobs go those numbers would be the same if they did it land based.
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Farmfisherbawb, Steve, Dave or any of your supporting cast members - Would you care to put a number or show any effort the the feedlot groups have put into wild fish/ environmental enhancement? Do you REALLY believe the stuff that drops from the pens is benign?
Please, no soft shoe dance or sidestepping. Plain English without the $50 words, I'm just an ignernt redneck.
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Not hard to find. :)
http://www.aquaculture.ca/files/species-salmon.php
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Long read.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/epd/industrial/aquaculture/pdf/aquarpt01.pdf
Regs today.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/management-gestion/regs-eng.htm
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Good post Bawb sure helps to clear things up:
"Despite all of the preventative measures, some salmon do occasionally become ill. A veterinarian will then examine the fish and determine the appropriate action to be taken. As with all farm animals, the veterinarian may sometimes decide that the illness requires antibiotic treatment - and will then prescribe a registered antibiotic that is approved by the Veterinary Drug Directorate of Health Canada. "
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Aw Bawb - I wonder if you're related to the Ford brothers with the constant denial. So you say it's OK to put slice, poop, antibiotics and all the other CRAP into "pristine waters"?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/laugh_zps13001fca.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/laugh_zps13001fca.gif.html)
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Hey Bawb - read this about the drugs we already are getting into the water systems. But we need to add more? :o ::)
http://www.nrdc.org/thisgreenlife/1109.asp
http://healthblog.londondrugs.com/the-safe-disposal-of-drugs
http://www.fcgov.com/utilities/what-we-do/wastewater/pharmaceutical-waste-disposal
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/resourcesforyou/consumers/buyingusingmedicinesafely/understandingover-the-countermedicines/ucm107163.pdf
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You forgot to put this up since you seem to dwell on doom and gloom NB. How much do you and TB get payed by the American marketing crew? :)
http://www.sciencebase.com/drugs_in_water_supply.html
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Good to see your coming clean about your condition with the chemical cocktail that's in BC farmed salmon Bawb. There should be treatment centers to nip it in the bud ,eh.
"nighttime is only the opposite of daytime"
;D
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You forgot to put this up since you seem to dwell on doom and gloom NB. How much do you and TB get payed by the American marketing crew? :)
http://www.sciencebase.com/drugs_in_water_supply.html
I do it for the fame and glory Bawb. ::)
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http://www.theprogress.com/news/232539461.html?mobile=true
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Hey this is also a good read. What do the farm fish supporters think about taxpayers bailing them out for diseases they imported.
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
These things need to go WAAAAY offshore or onto land. Ridiculous.
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Hey this is also a good read. What do the farm fish supporters think about taxpayers bailing them out for diseases they imported.
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
These things need to go WAAAAY offshore or onto land. Ridiculous.
Don't inconvenience the feedlot farm hands with facts and figures. You'll be sent to Norway for reprogramming. - (See farmfisherbawb's rhetoric and his sources of (dis)information.)
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Don't inconvenience the feedlot farm hands with facts and figures. You'll be sent to Norway for reprogramming. - (See farmfisherbawb's rhetoric and his sources of (dis)information.)
I am not a fish farmer NB. Seems you like to say that as a racial mud sling. Well, what ever spins your real dude. :). Your kind of Rhetoric is why I no longer support Doc Morton and her American special intrest groups. If I have to listen to propaganda I would rather it be Canadian.:)
http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blog+post+full+of+errors%2C+ignorance+about+salmon+farming+and+business
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There you go again, telling me I'm promoting Ms. Morton - one more time, show me where. Can't find it? Doesn't exist. The only thing I look at is tangible common sense, not self serving propaganda sites, financed by special interest groups. Dumping poop, antibiotics and chemicals, bringing in a foreign species, elevated disease levels, elevated sea lice levels, (diseases have proven to mutate) - all in pristine waters is lacking common sense, critical thought and poor environmental stewardship.But you know that already.....
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There you go again, telling me I'm promoting Ms. Morton - one more time, show me where. Can't find it? Doesn't exist. The only thing I look at is tangible common sense, not self serving propaganda sites, financed by special interest groups. Dumping poop, antibiotics and chemicals, bringing in a foreign species, elevated disease levels, elevated sea lice levels, (diseases have proven to mutate) - all in pristine waters is lacking common sense, critical thought and poor environmental stewardship.But you know that already.....
You sure like to add to what I post NB. No wonder you believe all that American marketing guanda and think I am a fish farmer. :) too funny.
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well steve, referring to you as "you guys" simply means you support pens in the ocean.
Here we go again. As Dave correctly stated, I do not care for media and activist induced phobia against salmon farms – especially from those that do not know what they are talking about (namely Ms Morton and Mr. Staniford). I do not really care if BC fish farmers decide to go close containment. What I do care about are the conclusions being made by activists to justify their position that net pens are as destructive on BC wild salmon as they claim they are. In my opinion, many of their theories are based on ignorance and misinformation and actually do science a disservice in the long run rather than enhance it. I care that wild salmon are actually being forgot by activists that seem more focused on an agenda against the industry instead of the long term viability of wild salmon and the research to find answers. I support defensible science done by people that know what they are doing - looking for answers instead of being solely focused on one culprit and trying to build a case around that. If pens are more than a minimal impact in those areas identified by Cohen then I am willing to change my opinions as I indicated earlier in this thread.
So the consequences are high, the recommendations are not being acted upon and the scientific process is slow. These are great ingredients for some troubling times..... hopefully we will find some answers.
Consequences can be high with other things we do in and around water; however, rarely does one factor work in isolation of another. This is why trying to find a “smoking gun” in this equation is often difficult to do – contrary to what anti fish farm activist lead us to believe. What you are doing is focusing solely on fish farms as the immediate and present danger and this is not what Cohen found or wanted people to take from the report. If you finally cared to look at the work from Peterman and Dorner in the report you will notice low Sockeye productivity is being seen outside of the Fraser River as far as some systems in Alaska. While reading the report you likely noticed this also:
“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)
What this indicates is that there is likely much more going on which is going to involve further scientific investigation. When you notice the huge Pink Salmon returns this season along with the rebound in Sockeye numbers from the 2009 brood it also suggests that things are not so easily explained as some anti-fish farm activists think they are. This “pristine” ocean you are talking about is slightly more complex that you give it credit for. There is actually more going on. Like you said already, we probably know more about the moon than we do about our oceans. In my opinion, if fish farms here are so destructive as activists claim they are we would be seeing some of their theories come true; instead, when their theories don’t pan out they look for alternative answers which make no sense. For instance, one staunch anti-fish farm individual on another forum suggested that the reason BC fish farms cannot find ISAv was because they killed them for market before they died of ISA; if they lived longer they would have eventually die of ISA. Really? The fact is that ISA is a deadly disease for Atlantic Salmon – they would have died before they reached market size. It does not make any sense if critics are using Chile as an example.
Another theory from another staunch fish farm opponent was what if the ISA strain were an altered strain (something viruses do, he said) – that affected wild stocks, but was not as bad for Atlantics. The problem with theory is that it conflicts with what fish farm critics have been long saying about ISAv being spread by egg imports from Norway to Chile to here. So, am I to assume that ISAv was spread here by egg imports from Norway (the same thing that happened to Chile that killed millions of farmed Atlantic Salmon), mutated into a strain that was no longer highly pathogenic to Atlantic Salmon and only affects wild salmon off BC. That is one magic virus – like the magic bullet theory in Dallas, TX a long time ago. Not only is this theory not supported by any evidence, but it runs contrary to what we already know about ISAv and ISA. It runs contrary to what expert testimony (Miller, Kibenge, and Nylund) stated at the Cohen Inquiry.
Lastly, as for the recommendations not being acted upon, that needs clarification. The fact is that there are some things being acted upon and have been prior to the release of the report. One of the big problems here is that that this is not being reported in the media and relayed to the public. Somehow government is reluctant to let people know.
I find that an interesting observation considering the millions of tourists that visit BC yearly to see our 'pristine' ocean and coast line. Not even including the cruise ship passengers who pay thousands for a peek of what we live in. maybe you've seen more of BC than most. But I consider BC spectacular, especially our coast.
I did not say that our coastline was so polluted that it is scaring away tourists; however, our oceans are far from pristine now as we (you and me and everyone else) have all played their parts with impacts. So, when you talk about the benthic impacts of BC fish farms on our pristine ocean you then proceed to hop, skip and jump over many other players and minimize their contribution and focused solely on fish farms - as if fish farms have now created the imbalance. Look around you. Look at other industries and human activities in and around our “pristine” oceans before you start pointing fingers at aquaculture as the big offender. It is not deflection – it is about being fair with criticism.
I am well aware of what other industries do and how most are regulated. I just find it ammusing, and this is obvious where we differ in opinions. Your proud and boisterous of the fact that BC has the strongest regulations regarding aqualculture in the world. you love it... it's mentioned in nearly every post.
See, I think thats not even something to be proud of.... that should be a minimal expectation. So your proud the industry is not trying to screw everything up.[/quote]
LOL…..I am just saying that the BC industry here has some strong regulations that are actually more stringent than many places in the world that have aquaculture. You seem to believe that things are so lax and unregulated with BC fish farms. It is not about being “proud” or “loving it”. I have no idea what you are trying to say in the next paragraph. Ahh….yeah, I am glad the industry is not trying to screw everything up…..Yeah…you got me there….I am glad CN Rail has emergency procedures in place in case there is a train derailment……I am glad that when I fly in a commercial airline that the pilot is trained to not only fly the plane, but is able to deal with emergencies…….just like I am glad you stop at controlled pedestrian crosswalks to let pedestrians cross the road instead of hitting them….lol. Really?? But thanks for telling me how “aware” you are. I am comforted now.
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You sure like to add to what I post NB. No wonder you believe all that American marketing guanda and think I am a fish farmer. :) too funny.
My deepest apologies - Apparently, you work for a PR firm hired by the feedlots instead. My mistake.
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My deepest apologies - Apparently, you work for a PR firm hired by the feedlots instead. My mistake.
Steve works for a company that has pretty much the worst PR reps around. Good stuff.
Aren't you guys getting bored yet? It's like Groundhog Day poking my head back into this thread after more than a month off.
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Steve works for a company that has pretty much the worst PR reps around. Good stuff.
LOL!! You haven't been sent to Nunavut yet I see ;)
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Steve works for a company that has pretty much the worst PR reps around. Good stuff.
Aren't you guys getting bored yet? It's like Groundhog Day poking my head back into this thread after more than a month off.
Nope - as long as the feedlotters spread bovine droppings, I'll be there to correct them. :)
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Nope - as long as the feedlotters spread bovine droppings, I'll be there to correct them. :)
I just corrected you on another thread. You are so welcome.
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Steve works for a company that has pretty much the worst PR reps around. Good stuff.
Aren't you guys getting bored yet? It's like Groundhog Day poking my head back into this thread after more than a month off.
The worst? You are being too nice to them..lol. Unfortunately, the ground troops are getting the shaft.
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I also appreciate where you (guys) are coming from pointing at urban development as well as other industries decimating habitat and eliminating salmon spawing streams completely. There will never be any comparison between the damage a salmon farm COULD do with what has already taken place. There is no denying that.
Well, according to activists this damage you talk about is already going on; however, they were not able to demonstrate that salmon farms are the environmental Armageddon during the inquiry. If there can "never be any comparison" then which local runs have been decimated by salmon farms? If you read the Cohen Final Report you will notice that Justice Cohen put all these factors that can potentially impact Fraser Sockeye into perspective, but apparently you have crystal ball that says that damage from a salmon farm will do more damage than what other factors have done or will do.
Have you ever taken a trip to other areas of the Fraser Watershed outside of the Lower Mainland? I have. It is a regular part of my job. Try comparing the present day shorelines of Shuswap and Mara lakes to what they looked like 30 or 40 years ago and see how fish habitat in many area is now replaced by sandy beaches and grounding docks. Check out what past exploitation rates were like for commercial fisheries (mixed stock) in this province. What was the return of Upper Adams Sockeye like in 2004 after years of rebuilding? Lastly, you also have to consider that fish species like Fraser Sockeye can have a very complex life history. Potential marine impacts (i.e. aquaculture) are just one factor within that life history that includes many other areas for potential mortality. Environmental conditions in the Fraser, as discussed by Scott Hinch during the inquiry, were clearly lost upon you as you read the report.
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Well, according to activists this damage you talk about is already going on; however, they were not able to demonstrate that salmon farms are the environmental Armageddon during the inquiry. If there can "never be any comparison" then which local runs have been decimated by salmon farms? If you read the Cohen Final Report you will notice that Justice Cohen put all these factors that can potentially impact Fraser Sockeye into perspective, but apparently you have crystal ball that says that damage from a salmon farm will do more damage than what other factors have done or will do.
Have you ever taken a trip to other areas of the Fraser Watershed outside of the Lower Mainland? I have. It is a regular part of my job. Try comparing the present day shorelines of Shuswap and Mara lakes to what they looked like 30 or 40 years ago and see how fish habitat in many area is now replaced by sandy beaches and grounding docks. Check out what past exploitation rates were like for commercial fisheries (mixed stock) in this province. What was the return of Upper Adams Sockeye like in 2004 after years of rebuilding? Lastly, you also have to consider that fish species like Fraser Sockeye can have a very complex life history. Potential marine impacts (i.e. aquaculture) are just one factor within that life history that includes many other areas for potential mortality. Environmental conditions in the Fraser, as discussed by Scott Hinch during the inquiry, were clearly lost upon you as you read the report.
thats not what I'm saying at all. I thought it made perfect sense. I am saying that the damage done by other industries is worse than anything a farm could do..... that the worst a farm could do, would be relatively small compared to another industry.
Its also logistically easier in my eyes to remove a fish pen, as compared to a shipping port.
I'm not from the lower mainland and have been lucky, and old enough to see most of the province, repeatedly. I've seen systems bounce back and others continue to suffer. What I am seeing, is a push to move back to better days and healthier systems.
I'm pretty sure every small flow in the lower mainland has suffered from industry and urban development. Almost every one of them has a hatchery.
See to try and make my point yet again, the farms can be taken out of the water. to me that makes sense.
I also have never spoken about sockeye in particular. I have also not said farms are the sole reason for salmon stock problems. Just the potential of virus mutation between atlantics and pacifics and what the potential consequences of having farms dropping crap and drugs into currents.
in PRISTINE oceans.... with your long winded posts it's suprising your not even reading what I'm typing.
The information regarding viruses was contradictory and needed a lot of reading. If other parts of the world are having issues and culls, it's always a possibility that it can happen here. Regardless of having the highest standards.
I read an article that I think was turned into a documentary about the sockeye return of 2011 and it being the result of a volcanic eruption in alaska feeding all the zooplankton. So ya, I agree, things go in cycles.
None of that information I read was lost on me. You can't see the forest through the trees.
Open pens don't need to be a 'smoking gun' to be a problem. Part of an old job I had was investigating accidents in the workplace. If a risk could be eliminated through engineering, it's what was always done.
.... I do not really care if BC fish farmers decide to go close containment.
There is no point continuing this conversation.
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I just corrected you on another thread. You are so welcome.
Oh thank you, grand Master of semantics and $50 words. You see, I'm just another ignorant redneck, not worthy of sharing the world's air with you.( Sarcasm before your knickers get all knotted up) ;)
Um, my parents were poor fishing folks of the maritime variety. As soon as I was old enough, I was out working to help support our rather modest existence. There wasn't any money for school beyond what basics I had by grade 9 - then it was out to work, either on a family boat or at a fish plant. In my generation and where I came from, there might have been a half dozen who's parents could afford to send their children off to higher learning institutions. I'm happy your family had the resources to do that for you. Smug commentary aside, I think while you may indeed be quite intelligent, it's too bad you need to constantly talk down to people who don't espouse your point of view - yes, before you say it, I do as well, but mostly with farmfisherbawb who's posts are all ridiculously self serving industry propaganda links. Carry on!
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thats not what I'm saying at all. I thought it made perfect sense. I am saying that the damage done by other industries is worse than anything a farm could do..... that the worst a farm could do, would be relatively small compared to another industry.
I read what you say again and I see what you were trying to say. My apologies this time.
I'm not from the lower mainland and have been lucky, and old enough to see most of the province, repeatedly. I've seen systems bounce back and others continue to suffer. What I am seeing, is a push to move back to better days and healthier systems.
You are right...There is a push to move back to better days and healthier systems. Now if we can rid ourselves of Harper and get back to a Fisheries Act that actually does what it is supposed that would be even better.
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Oh thank you, grand Master of semantics and $50 words. You see, I'm just another ignorant redneck, not worthy of sharing the world's air with you.( Sarcasm before your knickers get all knotted up) ;)
Um, my parents were poor fishing folks of the maritime variety. As soon as I was old enough, I was out working to help support our rather modest existence. There wasn't any money for school beyond what basics I had by grade 9 - then it was out to work, either on a family boat or at a fish plant. In my generation and where I came from, there might have been a half dozen who's parents could afford to send their children off to higher learning institutions. I'm happy your family had the resources to do that for you. Smug commentary aside, I think while you may indeed be quite intelligent, it's too bad you need to constantly talk down to people who don't espouse your point of view - yes, before you say it, I do as well, but mostly with farmfisherbawb who's posts are all ridiculously self serving industry propaganda links. Carry on!
Hmmm....so it is ok for you to be "correcting" people, but if someone notices something you posted that is not correct you believe they are talking down to you. Sounds fair...lol. Seems like you were talking down to people like me in the following statement:
Nope - as long as the feedlotters spread bovine droppings, I'll be there to correct them.
But that's ok....because you are just a poor, disadvantaged Maritimer who is constantly picked on by people like me. That is an excuse for the comments you make? I should really be cutting you some slack? Really?? Let me tell you this...You don't know me or what I did to get to where I am at today so be careful of about what you assume.
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Hmmm....so it is ok for you to be "correcting" people, but if someone notices something you posted that is not correct you believe they are talking down to you. Sounds fair...lol. Seems like you were talking down to people like me in the following statement:
Nope - as long as the feedlotters spread bovine droppings, I'll be there to correct them.
But that's ok....because you are just a poor, disadvantaged Maritimer who is constantly picked on by people like me. That is an excuse for the comments you make? I should really be cutting you some slack? Really?? Let me tell you this...You don't know me or what I did to get to where I am at today so be careful of about what you assume.
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So - ya wanna go grab a coffee sometime? I'll buy. You can even have the grande ;D I'm pretty open about who and what I am, you - not so much.
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He thinks he is someone important. Like a sardine crammed in his own little cubicle. ::)
Isn't it past your bedtime dave?
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http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blogger+errs+again+in+claims+about+salmon+farms+and+compensation
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Alaska's #1 priority?
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
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So - ya wanna go grab a coffee sometime? I'll buy. You can even have the grande ;D I'm pretty open about who and what I am, you - not so much.
I think you are in need of companionship. Sorry, this is the wrong site for that. Better try this site:
http://www.eharmony.ca/
There you can open up about yourself to someone as much as you want without coming across as desperate for attention here. Good luck.
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I think you are in need of companionship. Sorry, this is the wrong site for that. Better try this site:
http://www.eharmony.ca/
There you can open up about yourself to someone as much as you want without coming across as desperate for attention here. Good luck.
Run out of mud so you sling the "he must be gay" card? Wow - really? That's pretty pathetic Steve and a sad commentary on you, not me. I had a gay family member that put up with that kind of garbage throughout the time he was here and ended up taking his life. You have no idea how that affected his immediate family and those around him or you wouldn't reach into the toilet for that turd. I feel a mixture of sorrow and disgust for you and your need to display your (now) obviously bigoted and usually elitist foolishness as well as that massive ego. What's next Steve? Are you going to slur people because of gender or race? If you don't like others POV, that's just too bad, because we'll always be here to raise concerns and question glaring holes in the feedlot propaganda stream and those that enable it. I'm not going anywhere, neither are the others that don't buy into your philosophy.
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.........cue the violins....................again.........
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Run out of mud so you sling the "he must be gay" card? Wow - really?
Wow there he goes, mis reading what was said again. No wonder it is so hard for you to get the facts straight NB. Great attempt on self serving story telling how ever. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
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wow.
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I could care less about Morton. You and Davey however must have nightmares about her. All consuming...lol.
I was wondering who authored your above link, bawb, until I came across this...
"Who we are.
We are people who work in aquaculture, and who also do not. We are interested in science, particularly the science of salmon farming, and want to share our passion with others.
We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack, and a small group of anti-salmon farming activists have shown they are willing to use nasty and personal attacks to try and shame and intimidate people who support salmon farming."
Ahahahahahah!! "anonymous", bawb. As far as I'm concerned you and Davey both suffer from the same disease, "foot in mouth".
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I could care less about Morton. You and Davey however must have nightmares about her. All consuming...lol.
I was wondering who authored your above link, bawb, until I came across this...
"Who we are.
We are people who work in aquaculture, and who also do not. We are interested in science, particularly the science of salmon farming, and want to share our passion with others.
We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack, and a small group of anti-salmon farming activists have shown they are willing to use nasty and personal attacks to try and shame and intimidate people who support salmon farming."
Ahahahahahah!! "anonymous", bawb. As far as I'm concerned you and Davey both suffer from the same disease, "foot in mouth".
Grasping for straws only dilutes a good debate MS. Please try a bit harder on your next post. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2011/02/introduction.html
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At least that one has an author, bawb. Not a Suzuki fan either. Also not an environmentalist (that's laughable).
PS....who is MS?
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Bawb sounds like he hit a sore spot with you? Cook up some of that dirty fish and put on avideo (nothing with Morton in it) pour a tall one and relax.
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If you are reffering to me TB, try to follow along.
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If you are reffering to me TB, try to follow along.
Perhaps you can relax and smell the fishy money for a moment :)
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/07/02/fp-letters-money-trail-gets-fishy/
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More Morton drivel by Vivian Krause. You having nightmares about her when yur awake now, bawb? Try the bong for self medication. I'm sure Morton does
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More Morton drivel by Vivian Krause. You having nightmares about her when yur awake now, bawb? Try the bong for self medication. I'm sure Morton does
Please feel free to add to the debate by posting facts that have not already been debunked. :)
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Facts about what, bawb? Are you babbling about Morton again? For the hard of comprehending, that means "grasping mentally", bawb, I could care less about Morton or tree huggers. You didn't self medicate did you?
Here is a link worth watching.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/coachs-corner/don-cherry-wants-coach-s-corner-to-remain-status-quo-1.2446703
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Please feel free to add to the debate by posting facts that have not already been debunked. :)
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I wonder what every ones opinion of Brian Riddell President and CEO of the Pacific Salmon Foundation?
http://ohboy.ca/secretscience/index.php/dr-brian-riddell/
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IMO, one of the best fish scientists on the planet. He was my section head for a while and was considered by his peers as brilliant.
He is far more valuable to the fishery resource in his present position than he was as a highly esteemed DFO scientist.
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I wonder what every ones opinion of Brian Riddell President and CEO of the Pacific Salmon Foundation?
http://ohboy.ca/secretscience/index.php/dr-brian-riddell/
Very very intelligent man. Used to also work in his group until he did the smart thing and jumped ship. His talk on the sea lice issue in the Broughton that he gave in 2009 was awesome. Spoiler alert: his work suggested poor science by the sea lice folks (AlMo et al).
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Then you must be aware of this article...
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/23/fp-letters-junk-journalism/
"We are writing this letter together to put an end to the numerous attempts to fabricate scientific discord associated with the affects of aquaculture on wild Pacific salmon. The Canadian public will only benefit from abundant wild salmon and aquaculture if they have accurate information. Mr. Corcoran’s exaggerations and misinformation are more damaging to the fish farm industry than the science he lashes out at in his column.
Every new industry matures as it develops and aquaculture does represent potential value to our coastal communities. But it must not jeopardize our wild Pacific salmon. Indeed, nowhere else in the world has open-net pen aquaculture existed with such an abundance of wild salmon, as present in British Columbia. To ensure wild Pacific salmon are sustained the ecological footprint of fish farming must meet the biological requirements of wild salmon. Mr. Corcoran seems to want to place the blame for the current situation on activists, but his conclusions are inaccurate and more fishy than any of the science he attempts to discredit.
For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point.
Mr. Corcoran says, The great salmon farming scare proved to be a false alarm. This is incorrect. Declines in levels of sea lice are the result of a management (treatment) plan enacted in the Broughton Archipelago since 2007. Implementation of that plan is consistent with improved returns of pink salmon to the Broughton Archipelago in 2009.
Mr. Corcoran employs deliberately inflammatory language. As the primary author (Riddell) of the federal fisheries article rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction article in Science, I have never referred to flawed science, cherry-picked data, or fudging the data. To infer attribution of these terms to me (Riddell) is totally inappropriate.
To his credit Mr. Corcoran has retained some important messages. I (Riddell) am concerned about the salmon farming experience around the world and I do question how environmentally justifiable open-net pen salmon farms are. Mr. Corcoran quotes Dr. Ben Koop, who rightly says science takes a lot of different perspectives and [then] combines and debates. This is exactly what has been occurring on the West Coast of Canada vis-a-vis aquaculture. We, as a community of scientists, acted and initiated the science that triggered management that has temporarily reduced sea lice. We did not wait to see if the extinction prediction was true or false. We are aware of strong indications worldwide that the current treatment measures may fail if or when the lice become drug-resistant. Therefore, the people involved must continue to develop solutions of which closed containment seems to be an increasingly attractive option."
Dr. Brian E Riddell, CEO, Pacific Salmon Foundation. Alexandra Morton, executive director, Raincoast Research Society
Notice this is co-authored by A. Morton and Riddell refered to Morton in the video.
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2010/12/
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"I have donated to Dr. Morton's cause witch makes me fell like I am helping the cause of saving our salmon. I have not received any tax receipts. I was told however that the money goes to educating the public. I think there is no way Dr. Morton will say and do what ever it takes to continue generating profits. Dr. Morton is the most honest person I know."
Your words bawb.....lol x 10....and you wanna be my latex salesman.
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You will simply just have to excuse me for no longer being a loyal listener on your side of the fence. Junk science for donations and why. :)
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/06/13/terence-corcoran-lipstick-apples-sperm-counts/
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Then you must be aware of this article...
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/06/23/fp-letters-junk-journalism/
Mr. Corcoran employs deliberately inflammatory language. As the primary author (Riddell) of the federal fisheries article rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction article in Science, I have never referred to flawed science, cherry-picked data, or fudging the data. To infer attribution of these terms to me (Riddell) is totally inappropriate.
Hmmm, ok my bad I guess. He gave a talk "rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction", and here is the link to his written comment on the same topic, the 2007 Krkosek et al Science paper. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.2.full.pdf
It's a short read. This is pulled directly from the text.
"Krkošek et al. overstated the risks to wild pink salmon from sea lice and salmon farming. Furthermore, their predictions are inconsistent with recent observations of pink salmon returns to the Broughton Archipelago. Their alarming statements of extinction of pink salmon in the BA are only possible with highly selective use of the available data and extrapolation of their results to all pink salmon in the BA."
Riddell was the lead author. I greatly respect his opinions and his work.
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.
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Hmmm, ok my bad I guess. He gave a talk "rebutting the December 2007 extinction prediction", and here is the link to his written comment on the same topic, the 2007 Krkosek et al Science paper. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/322/5909/1790.2.full.pdf
It's a short read. This is pulled directly from the text.
"Krkošek et al. overstated the risks to wild pink salmon from sea lice and salmon farming. Furthermore, their predictions are inconsistent with recent observations of pink salmon returns to the Broughton Archipelago. Their alarming statements of extinction of pink salmon in the BA are only possible with highly selective use of the available data and extrapolation of their results to all pink salmon in the BA."
Riddell was the lead author. I greatly respect his opinions and his work.
Good stuff dnibbles. I really like this quote from Riddell...
"For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point."
Do we know each other? ;)
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Run out of mud so you sling the "he must be gay" card? Wow - really? That's pretty pathetic Steve and a sad commentary on you, not me. I had a gay family member that put up with that kind of garbage throughout the time he was here and ended up taking his life. You have no idea how that affected his immediate family and those around him or you wouldn't reach into the toilet for that turd. I feel a mixture of sorrow and disgust for you and your need to display your (now) obviously bigoted and usually elitist foolishness as well as that massive ego. What's next Steve? Are you going to slur people because of gender or race? If you don't like others POV, that's just too bad, because we'll always be here to raise concerns and question glaring holes in the feedlot propaganda stream and those that enable it. I'm not going anywhere, neither are the others that don't buy into your philosophy.
Haven't you figured out by now that if you act like a fool you will be treated like one? My comments to you have nothing to do with not wanting to hear other peoples' POV. As for raising concerns and questions that is laughable because you seem more interested in being a clown than being genuinely interested in the topic. What is sad is that you constantly drag up some sympathetic, heart-wrenching story to justify your rude behaviour on this board.
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http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/CommitteesMeetingMaterials/VeterinaryMedicineAdvisoryCommittee/ucm222635.htm
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"Throughout the early 1900�s there were many attempts to introduce Atlantic salmon into Pacific waters, particularly British Columbia and Washington State. These attempts were unsuccessful in spite of the release of millions of eggs and juveniles (MacCrimmon and Gots, 1979). Self-sustaining introductions of Atlantic salmon have largely failed even in waters where the species naturally existed such as the Great Lakes where they were extirpated, however, a landlocked self-sustaining population exists in New Zealand. Reasons for unsuccessful establishment in the Pacific include competing healthy Pacific salmon populations at the time of introduction, and use of eggs or juveniles (that had to overcome obstacles in migration, the open ocean environment and spawning), instead of more mature adults (such as the ones escaping from aquaculture net cages). For a good historical review of Atlantic salmon introductions, see Nash and Waknitz, 2003."
http://fwcb.cfans.umn.edu/courses/nresexotics3002/GradPages/AtlanticSalmon/Atlantic_Salmon_History.htm
History has no value if we can not learn from it. :)
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Then you must be aware of this article...
......To his credit Mr. Corcoran has retained some important messages. I (Riddell) am concerned about the salmon farming experience around the world and I do question how environmentally justifiable open-net pen salmon farms are. Mr. Corcoran quotes Dr. Ben Koop, who rightly says science takes a lot of different perspectives and [then] combines and debates. This is exactly what has been occurring on the West Coast of Canada vis-a-vis aquaculture. We, as a community of scientists, acted and initiated the science that triggered management that has temporarily reduced sea lice.......
Dr. Brian E Riddell, CEO, Pacific Salmon Foundation. Alexandra Morton, executive director, Raincoast Research Society
Notice this is co-authored by A. Morton and Riddell refered to Morton in the video.
What isn't mentioned in that letter "co-authored by A. Morton" is the fact that the action taken to manage the lice was strongly opposed by Morton and in fact, the court challenge she initiated that resulted in management of BC salmon farms being transferred to DFO was an attempt by her to block the collaborative action by that community of scientists and the fish farms to find a solution to the lice problem:
"The reason I went to court started with a deal between Marine Harvest and a coalition of enviros I was part of. To allow Marine Harvest to fallow one route of Broughton every spring Marine Harvest said their farms and to be 2-3 times bigger. The enviros were good with that, but I wasn't because as part of my sea lice research I examined thousands of juvenile salmon (live) as they approached and passed the fish farms in Broughton. Sea lice is a numbers game. They are allowed only a few live per fish, but if they triple the number of fish of course the lice numbers increase. SO I left the coalition and found a lawyer to get an injunction and he said "you know what this whole thing is not legal" they are not farms and should not be managed by the province who have no responsibility to the wild fish. Actually the whole concept of fish farming in net pens runs counter to the Constitution of Canada because no one is allowed to privatize ocean spaces or own fish in the marine waters..... However, the feds are as bad as the province and with Harper hacking away at the Fisheries Act, there really is no progress except that the Broughton sites remain in their original size, most are expired because First Nations refuse to OK their renewal." http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?19113-What-can-WE-do-to-help-save-the-salmon&p=229393#post229393
Fortunately, the bulk of the approvals required for the program had been obtained from the province prior to the court removing from them the authority and it was able to proceed, albeit at a reduced level from what had originally been planned, and as Riddell points out, it was successful.
This appears to support the point that Corcoran was making that many activists are less interested in finding solutions than they are in raising money and as is apparent from recent discussions here many farm opponents are much more interested in name calling, personal attacks and arguing than they are in seeing progress made in addressing issues affecting salmon farming.
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It never ceases to amaze me how Morton gets under your skins. This Riddell article and video was not about Morton. I pointed out that Morton had co-authored it to see what kind of reaction it would get seeing that Riddell is well respected.
Riddell and Morton obviously have a working relationship that is amicable as evidenced in this article and her presence in the video. So if you are all so anti Morton and have nothing but good things to say about Mr. Riddell, why not ask him?
Far more important to me is his quote:
"For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point."
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I pointed out that Morton had co-authored it..........
And I pointed out why including Morton's signature on the letter on that particular subject was disingenuous regardless of Dr. Riddell's motives for doing so. What's the problem?
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So according to you, Riddell had "motives" for allowing Mortons signature....lol...it all sounds so secretive and possibly illegal. I don't pay much attention to greenies. So I don't have a problem....you are the one who is "Mortonized".
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Actually, we all, or at least almost all of us, have a motive for everything we do. "Motive" is defined as a reason for doing something and almost all of us don't act without some sort of motive. In fact, I'd venture to suggest that those who act without motive do so because they haven't got the mental capacity to form one.
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Astrodon. Motivated one though. ::)
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So according to you, Riddell had "reasons" for allowing Mortons signature....lol...it all sounds so secretive and possibly illegal. I don't pay much attention to greenies. So I don't have a problem....you are the one who is "Mortonized". Is that better? ;D
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Good stuff dnibbles. I really like this quote from Riddell...
"For the record, first and foremost the claim that sea lice from fish farms in British Columbia were contaminating wild pink salmon is true. Without treatment for sea lice, the farms in the Broughton Archipelago were proven to be the major source of lice infecting juvenile pink salmon. The treatment of lice on farmed salmon, a plan developed through collaborative research in the archipelago, successfully reduced infection and proved that the farms were the primary source of infection. There really is no debate on this point."
Do we know each other? ;)
Hmmm, not sure if we know each other. Given the timing and frequency of your posts, you may be recently retired? Anyways, I think we are in complete agreement on Riddell and his work. At first glance those two quotes may be a little difficult to reconcile, but Riddell is clear in that he is referring to the vector of infection, and not speculating on potential impacts (e.g. extinction within 4 generations).
Anyways, I'm out of this thread, not sure how I ended up back in this vortex of repetition. Thanks for the Riddell video, I guess it breathed a little new life into a very stale topic lol.
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http://www.creativesalmon.com/_docs/Creative-Salmon-Achieves-Organic-Certification.pdf
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So according to you, Riddell had "reasons" for allowing Mortons signature....lol...it all sounds so secretive and possibly illegal. I don't pay much attention to greenies. So I don't have a problem....you are the one who is "Mortonized". Is that better? ;D
Not really. It isn't nearly as difficult as you seem to be finding it.
According to me, Riddell had motives (or reasons; suit yourself), not "motives" or "reasons".
I have to confess that I don't understand why you would think either sounds so secretive and possibly illegal but to each his own.
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It was sarcasm you boring dummy. Are you a steve dupe?
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Boring or not, I'm just keeping your words out of my mouth.
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Now I see what dnibbles was refferring to. WHOOPS!...referring to." Anyways, I'm out of this thread, not sure how I ended up back in this vortex of repetition."
I see you made a lot of friends over at SFBC....continue the trend.
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....I see you made a lot of friends over at SFBC....continue the trend.
You appear to be doing the same thing here. Difference is that I don't get myself booted out nor do I need to take gratuitous shots at other people in the process.
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35 posts and haven't been booted out yet, what do you mean "Difference is that I don't get myself booted out"?
As far as your tenure at SFBC you had the perfect chance to debate Morton and chickened out. Instead preferring to attempt to dazzle with words like you do here. Carry on.
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Haven't you figured out by now that if you act like a fool you will be treated like one? My comments to you have nothing to do with not wanting to hear other peoples' POV. As for raising concerns and questions that is laughable because you seem more interested in being a clown than being genuinely interested in the topic. What is sad is that you constantly drag up some sympathetic, heart-wrenching story to justify your rude behaviour on this board.
Sorry I'm in mourning. They killed off Brian the dog on Family Guy...... ;D
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Sorry I'm in mourning. They killed off Brian on Family Guy...... ;D
Good one....lol
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Good one....lol
Have you ever learned off a person that always agreed with you? :)
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Have you ever learned off a person that always agreed with you? :)
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://thefeministwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/do-you-speak-english1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thefeministwire.com/2012/03/rick-santorum-to-puerto-rico-speak-english/&h=286&w=450&sz=23&tbnid=hnL330BnfQ1NxM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=142&zoom=1&usg=__zhMf8R3ABwiJDErnX1St53tflko=&docid=z1stQGKU3ppfFM&sa=X&ei=oCygUqT3C4bioASTj4DIBA&sqi=2&ved=0CHkQ9QEwBw
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Sorry, I forgot that Doc Morton's obedient listeners do not answer questions lol. :)
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Sorry, I forgot that Doc Morton's obedient listeners do not answer questions lol. :)
Fisherbob
Sr. Member
****
Re: Salmon Confidential
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2013, 09:03:52 AM »
ReplyQuote
Quote from: troutbreath on March 13, 2013, 08:18:48 AM
Thats positive thinking Fisherbob. :) I doubt she needs to rip people off in an attempt to save salmon.
The pro farm group are expierencing Mortonization.
Thank you Troutbreath. Every thing that Dr. Morton predicted has come to be true. I am sure we can get more donations her way if we bang the table louder and make more noise. And AF is right. I should not be reading any of the feedlot news. It gave me to much to think a out.
LOL X 100...into the firewater again bawb?
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Did you say something MB?? Speak up next time and try to make at least a bit of sense. :)
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Your quote flip flop bawb. How's the hangover?
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http://aquaculture.ca/email/2013.10/12-02.htm
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Bawbby your on their mailing list I guess? From the fry pan into the fire. You shovelling them cash off the back of the pick up too. Hope not, might be another disappointment hug the bottle moment.
Sheri Beaulieu (thanks for the cash bawb)
Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance (CAIA)
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Bawbby your on their mailing list I guess? From the fry pan into the fire. You shovelling them cash off the back of the pick up too. Hope not, might be another disappointment hug the bottle moment.
Sheri Beaulieu (thanks for the cash bawb)
Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance (CAIA)
Can't find a decent charity to donate to Farmfisher Bawb Loblaw? I thought the taxpayer largesse was sufficient, but I guess there's need for more to cover the political donations.....
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To bad Doc Morton did not think of this :)
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=661
"However, we were smart enough to save all the Cohen documents on our own website. So – anti-salmon farming activists – feel free to visit our website for all your Cohen Commission needs, and please drop by our myth vs FACT section while you’re there! Here’s the link: http://farmfreshsalmon.org/cohen-commission-0"
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If your comment makes you look like a dumb-dumb, we will be happy to leave your comment available for others to see.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?page_id=213
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If your comment makes you look like a dumb-dumb, we will be happy to leave your comment available for others to see.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?page_id=213
Doc Morton is no differnt. LOL. :) she is the biggest muzler of the all.
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If your comment makes you look like a dumb-dumb, we will be happy to leave your comment available for others to see.
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To bad Doc Morton did not think of this :)
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=661
"However, we were smart enough to save all the Cohen documents on our own website. So – anti-salmon farming activists – feel free to visit our website for all your Cohen Commission needs, and please drop by our myth vs FACT section while you’re there! Here’s the link: http://farmfreshsalmon.org/cohen-commission-0"
:)
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So Farmfisher Bawb Loblaw ( kinda has nice ring to it for the links) - How much have you donated to the feedlots?
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Lawblawb ?
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Lawblawb ?
Close - blah blah blah ;D ;)
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Looks like Doc Morton has her own agenda again.
http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/critic+spins+tale+about+isa+virus+but+leaves+out+significant+facts
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Bawb if you want some foreigners telling you "facts" about their polluting ways great. Just maybe ,maybe try not to share this drivel please.
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Bawb if you want some foreigners telling you "facts" about their polluting ways great. Just maybe ,maybe try not to share this drivel please.
Grant Warkentin is hardly a foreigner, he comes from Chilliwack ;) Fisherbob, please continue posting this information so both sides are represented.
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Bawb if you want some foreigners telling you "facts" about their polluting ways great. Just maybe ,maybe try not to share this drivel please.
Worried about your stand? I know how it feels after listening to an activist that never gets it right. :)
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Worried about your stand? I know how it feels after listening to an activist that never gets it right. :)
Worried about my stand? :-\
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Bawb if you want some foreigners telling you "facts" about their polluting ways great. Just maybe ,maybe try not to share this drivel please.
Let me clarify for Bawb Loblaw - your "links" are nothing but propaganda. Self serving variety. They all come from an industry that's proven - time and time again- they'd pervert the truth to save their own skins. They suck taxpayer's money when things don't work out. They have no more credibility than Rob Ford.
Cripes, even Dave admits they're buffoons on the east coast ( probably even sidestep steve )- but you figure we can trust them here. Wake up from the stupor.
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Please feel free to post the scientific facts that support your feelings NB. :)
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Looks like Alaska is fedup with propaganda also MB. :)
"Murkowski, who described third-party groups as "questionable" and "controversial," praised the move and insisted that Alaska can certify its own sustainability, without any third party verification. - See more at: http://www.seafoodsource.com/en/news/environment-sustainability/24891-us-affirms-no-need-for-third-party-certification#sthash.TmeMP3og.dpuf "
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
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Please feel free to post the scientific facts that support your feelings NB. :)
Not the pseudo schtick that your feedlot buddies feed you by the shovel FarmfissureBawb Loblaw?
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Grant Warkentin is hardly a foreigner, he comes from Chilliwack ;) Fisherbob, please continue posting this information so both sides are represented.
Grant Warkentin is a nothing more than a paid feedlot shill Dave. A talking head, a professional mouthpiece, parroting the same tired lines. I took the time to look at some of the sliced bologna and bovine droppings the palooka writes for his job at mainstream. A sellout.
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/opinion/letters/enough-of-the-scary-salmon-tales-1.429953
and a well put rebuttal
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/opinion/letters/civility-is-lost-when-attacks-get-personal-1.427535
Open? Hilarious stuff!
http://www.superheroes4salmon.org/sites/default/files/files/23%20Rulling%20BCSFA%20letter%203.pdf
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Dave's buddy? Anyway he's a paid shill for the bunch of foreigners who own and run Mainstream. He don't run anything but his mouth :)
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Dave's buddy? Anyway he's a paid shill for the bunch of foreigners who own and run Mainstream. He don't run anything but his mouth :)
Selling out our heritage for a few bucks TB. But if you repeat the same BS over and over again.......
You become Bawb Loblaw! ;)
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http://www.change.org/petitions/restore-wild-salmon-ban-salmon-feedlots-in-bc please sign,cheers.
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American born Doc Morton should have included salmon farming in the US as well. Since any one in the world can sign her petition, it looks more like a marketing campaign. :)
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/honesty_in_political_ads/
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American born Doc Morton should have included salmon farming in the US as well. Since any one in the world can sign her petition, it looks more like a marketing campaign. :)
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/honesty_in_political_ads/
Still got the big hate on for Americans Farmfisher Bawb Loblaw? But you adore the Norwegians?
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Still got the big hate on for Americans Farmfisher Bawb Loblaw? But you adore the Norwegians?
Unlike you, I listen to people that get it right these days. Let me shortend your post to three words NB. :). Blah blah blah.
http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/research
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Unlike you, I listen to people that get it right these days.
http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/research
When Tony Farrell speaks, wise people listen.
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When Tony Farrell speaks, wise people listen.
And all the rest are buffoons?
Who signs his paycheque? ;)
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And all the rest are buffoons?
Who signs his paycheque? ;)
Well, he has made many people feel that way, including me. He is really quite brilliant and does not suffer fools; a world class fishery scientist with questionable people skills …
As a university professor I suppose you and I are paying his salary, and I'm fine with my share :D
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Well, he has made many people feel that way, including me. He is really quite brilliant and does not suffer fools; a world class fishery scientist with questionable people skills …
As a university professor I suppose you and I are paying his salary, and I'm fine with my share :D
So a Shoeswap Steve type huh? The world is running short of people with the rare hybrid of self styled intellectually arrogant. :o ;) Bookworm with very few social graces. ::) Sorry Dave, I don't suffer fools well either. ;D - I'm not inferring you in this case. More bawbish.
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chortle^ ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/20131218_aquaculture.html#.UrI9egHoPpI.facebook
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/12/19/junk-science-attack-on-processing-plant-gets-its-facts-totally-wrong/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/12/19/junk-science-attack-on-processing-plant-gets-its-facts-totally-wrong/
From the authors of the study: "Marine salmon farms and their processing facilities can serve as sources of virulent fish pathogens; our study is the first to confirm the broadcast of a live fish pathogen from a farmed salmon processing facility into the marine waters of Canada’s Pacific coast.”
Fact is that this processing plant processes wild (Sockeye, Pink) and farmed salmon as well as shellfish and other finfish species (like sardines and herring). Not sure what this study shows because this facility is clearly not just a farmed salmon processing facility. How did they break out what part was from farmed and what part was from wild fish? What were the controls? I would like to read this study more, but so far from the press release it looks pretty biased. Sea lice can be brought back by migrating adult wild salmon on their way back to their natal areas. Wild Sockeye salmon can carry IHNV and other pathogens (see Cohen Technical Report #1). I agree with critics of this study that more than one processing plant should have been looked at in order to make it more meaningful.
Take a look at the products available from Walcan:
http://www.bcspecialtyfood.ca/company-details.php?companyID=145
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This study certainly is a piece of work again by the usual suspects. Did it really take a study to come the the conclusion? Of course it was happening. But the study, if was really targeting salmon farms, should of used a wild processing facility as a control and they did not for the obvious reasons. They will find that the results are the same. Given this and the fact that this has been happening(with wild fish processing) for about 100 years one has to wonder what the effect has been. Maybe there is an effect. I am not saying there isn't. I am saying that the practice existed consistently for 70 or more years before salmon farming ever existed and it still exists today with commercial processing and sport fishing. Who does not bleed there fish where they caught it in the river or in the chuck? Salmon farmers are smart to take the precautionary approach and use filters to reduce/eliminate the potential risk if there is a risk. Who is going to follow their example?
I am glad that this study was done because it shows the intentions of the researchers involved and it is a prime example of what the peer review process is capable of producing. It certainly raises allot of questions.
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This study certainly is a piece of work again by the usual suspects.
I am glad that this study was done because it shows the intentions of the researchers involved and it is a prime example of what the peer review process is capable of producing. It certainly raises allot of questions.
Exactly aqua. Sadly, this latest by Volpe et al will be considered state of the art science by some, and especially so on other forums.
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I read the published paper in the journal and I think a lot of the criticism about it is unjustified and exaggerated. It's a simple little study (single sample), a "short communication", that simply identifies living sea lice (eggs and nauplii) being discharged at depth in the ocean from the fish processing plant as a potential issue. They know it was during a period of farmed Atlantic salmon processing because the DFO Scale Lab identified scales collected in the sample. Unlike meat processing plants that are required to discharge their effluent into the sewage system, fish processors can discharge directly to the ocean, and always have. I think they raise a valid concern that direct discharge, without effluent or sewage treatment, could be a vector for introducing infection agents back to the ecosystem and they should do further research and look at treating the effluent. Nothing earth shaking here....the only unexpected part of the results is that the filter screens that should remove lice components from the effluent seem to have failed (or aren't in place).
I think it highlights this ancient mindset that the ocean is our dumping ground and it doesn't matter what we discharge to it (human sewage, processing plant waste, agricultural runoff), it will be "consumed" by the ocean.
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This paper reads like a grade 7 science project. It is a single sampling with no comparative data to indicate that farm fish processing is any more dangerous than wild fish processing yet singles out farm fish processing as a risk while entirely overlooking the possibility that wild fish processing is equally or more risky. It doesn't provide any quantification of the purported risk but makes this recommendation:
These data underscore the need for fish farming nations to develop mandatory biosecurity programs to ensure that farmed salmon processing facilities will prevent the broadcast of infectious fish pathogens into wild fish habitat.
The data collected is certainly valid and worthy of entering the scientific record. The discussion, however, betrays the biases of the authors and for that reason, doesn't count as good science. I'm really surprised that the paper in it's existing form was considered worthy of publication.
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I agree - leaving out any comparative data to indicate that farm fish processing is any riskier than processing wild fish was a big omission – not to mention leaving out the important fact that wild fish are processed at the same facility. It does not take much effort using Google to find out that Walcan processes wild salmon also amongst other things like shellfish. How that was missed by the authors and the reviewers boogles my mind. It took me less than a minute on the internet to find what Walcan processes.
Was there any effort to try to work with Walcan to make this more of a collaborative effort? Was their any effort to contact Walcan about what they are doing or have planned for waste treatment? There is no personal communication noted from Walcan in the study. Why wasn’t there any effort to see if sampling could have been done when Pacific Salmon were being processed? In 2010, when Fraser Sockeye were being processed at Walcan, why didn’t one of the authors have a V8 moment and attempt some sampling then? The facility was even in the media announcing how busy they were with all those Sockeye. This was the same year the authors were sampling. Fish processing was pushed to the limit in 2010 when Fraser Sockeye were returning, so there should not have been any shortage of places to choose from. At the very least, the authors should have noted this lack of comparative work and recommended future work to address those gaps in their discussion; instead, they seemed to skip over it as if wild Pacific salmon are not processed here at all.
Frankly, I am surprised that this paper survived peer review. I would have thought that at least one of the reviewers would have seen these obvious omissions and told the authors to do some more data collection. The authors also failed to mention that a new treatment system was not in full use until 2011. It is good to be concern about this discharge, but the authors' data was already obsolete by the time it was published. In the end, the study was not objective and reads more like a vendetta against salmon farming.
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Frankly, I am surprised that this paper survived peer review. I would have thought that at least one of the reviewers would have seen these obvious omissions and told the authors to do some more data collection.
You know the drill ShuSteve....if you and Absolon feel strongly about the faulty design, methods, collection and analysis of data and interpretation, you write a "comment to the paper", send it to the editors, and if they feel it has scientific merit they will publish it and allow the authors to respond. That's the scientific method.
But I think you do have a legitimate concern about how the paper's conclusions may be applied out of context or exagerated since one of the co-authors certainly has a track record for that sort of thing.
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One would suspect that the paper will stand or fall on it's own merit; that those with the tools to evaluate it and for whom it is relevant will evaluate it's contribution to the scientific record and value it appropriately. That too is the scientific method.
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Now if only the same scrutiny was applied to Farmfisher Bawb Loblaw's self serving links from the feedlot industry.... Imagine that! ;) (imagining is the only way to see it. Dare to dream!)
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You know the drill ShuSteve....if you and Absolon feel strongly about the faulty design, methods, collection and analysis of data and interpretation, you write a "comment to the paper", send it to the editors, and if they feel it has scientific merit they will publish it and allow the authors to respond. That's the scientific method.
I agree that is one route to go, but in this circumstance I believe the omissions were not a coincidence. I don't believe it was an "Opps...we forgot". I believe the omissions were known long before, but skipped over because "the ends justifies the means". Not much different from Salmonconfidential. I believe Absolon's take on this (from his last post) will put this study where it belongs. However, it should be read by all and displayed as an example of how not to conduct an objective scientific study. That is probably the most positive thing about the study.
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So ALL the junk science the feedlots put out is perfect! Who'd a thunk it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI
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http://www.thebristolbaytimes.com/article/1351farmed_fish_line_raises_questions
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And that has little or nothing to do with CANADA (other than give you yet another anti American tilt)
Here Bawb, let me help you a bit, so you know the country.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada
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http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/salmon-farmer-fishing-for-higher-returns/article16110073/?service=mobile
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Alaska not liking msc these days.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
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And like who cares bawb? :o I don't know why you want to share that drivel from fish farming hating Alaskan fishery site. Next thing they will be posting as is "fishhatchery.com" complaining about fish hatcheries competing with the dirty fish you so love. Reality check bawb no one cares what they say because it's propaganda.
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Alaska not liking msc these days.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff.
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Looking good. :)
http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/news070114.php
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Looking bad :o
Marine Harvest's operations have been severely affected in the south of Chile, where millions of fish have died by the disease infectious salmon anemia.[80][81] The rapid propagation of the virus has motivated the enterprise to sell some of its facilities, firing more than a thousand employees,[80] with the aim of translating its installations further south to the Aisén Region. Parasitic, viral and fungal infections are all disseminated when the fish are stressed and the centres are too close together, and a spokesman for Marine Harvest recognized that his company was using too many antibiotics in Chile and that fish pens were too close, contributing to the dissemination of the ISA virus.[82] Norwegian scientist Are Nylund has suggested that Marine Harvest introduced the ISA virus to the region by importing infected eggs from Norway.[83]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Harvest
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Old news TB. Unlike Doc Morton and Don, it looks like they have learned from mistakes. :)
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Read the drivel from your link and see information contains nothing about the amount of antibiotics they used in Chile, in the graphs timeline. Something smells of farmed salmon underfoot.
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This is Chile:
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/time/america/chile.jpg
This is Canada:
http://www.mapsofworld.com/canada/maps/canada-map.gif
This is British Columbia:
http://www.hamiltonstampclub.com/images/british-columbia-map.gif
This is a map showing Marine Harvest CANADA farm sites off the coast of BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA (note: This area does not look like Chile...It is not an illusion.).
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/all_companies_2007-12_out_migration_sites.pdf
Salmon Virus Indicts CHILE'S Fishing Methods (note: The year of this news article is 2008....oh yeah...It doesn't talk about Marine Harvest in BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA, eh)
Marine Harvest recognized that his company was using too many antibiotics in Chile and that fish pens were too close, contributing to the dissemination of the ISA virus.[82] (again...CHILE not BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/world/americas/27salmon.html?fta=y&_r=0
Trends in antimicrobial use in Marine Harvest Canada farmed salmon production in British Columbia (2003-2011) (note: The year of this study is 2013 and is about Marine Harvest CANADA sites in BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24293677
TB, while you are at it you might want to compare the regulatory environments between CHILE and CANADA, so that you are comparing apples to apples. Wikipedia does not always tell the whole story for some reason.
Looking bad for you, TB :P
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;D Another beauty!
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I know you don't mind Marine Scarvest likes to polute in other countries. So your looking bad. ;)
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So in conclusion, although Marine Harvest has messed up the coastal operations in Chile big time, they pinkie swear they won't do it here. Really? All I hear from the feedlotters is....
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/clapping-seal-o_zps93b6ab44.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/clapping-seal-o_zps93b6ab44.gif.html)
Oooops - sorry. The seals have all been shot by the feedlotters....
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It appears your thoughts have been looked at for years and the industry has been moving forward to limit deaths.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/130225473.html?mobile=true
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It appears your thoughts have been looked at for years and the industry has been moving forward to limit deaths.
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/130225473.html?mobile=true
At the feedlots or from consumption of their products? "Limiting deaths"? How about making this the NUMBER 1 PRORITY? LOOKED AT FOR YEARS? IT'S TAKING THEM YEARS TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO SAVE THE LIVES OF THEIR WORKERS? Is that the kind of corporate entities any reasonable human would want doing business in our province, let alone sitting on and being stewards of, in their own words "pristine" tracts of our coast? I think you blew a tire with that ridiculous post Bawb.
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Actually, seal and sea lion populations in bc are on the rise and have been doing so for some time. Interestingly the populations in alaska have been on a sharp decline at the same time. So to say that salmon farmers shot them all is clearly false because currently the numbers are higher than what they have been for some time.
Sea lions are no longer able to rip holes in nets due to regulation. Nets are required to meet a strength standard that goes beyond the abilities of sea lions.
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"This pamphlet provides the most recent scientific information on the status of seals and sea lions in B.C. It describes the general biology, trends in abundance and feeding habits of species that occur on the B.C. coast. The conflicts that arise with commercial and sport fisheries are also discussed."
http://www.racerocks.com/racerock/rreo/rreoref/mmammals/sealsandsealions.htm
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So in conclusion, although Marine Harvest has messed up the coastal operations in Chile big time, they pinkie swear they won't do it here.
And that has little or nothing to do with CANADA (other than give you yet another anti Chilean tilt)
Here NB, let me help you a bit, so you know the country.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada
Burn
;D
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I know you don't mind Marine Scarvest likes to polute in other countries. So your looking bad. ;)
No, I just wanted to help you out with geography. Tough times in the fish farm fear mongering camp these days, huh? Not easy when the mothership (Ms Morton) has abandoned you here, so no doubt you are a little bitter.
:P
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And that has little or nothing to do with CANADA (other than give you yet another anti Chilean tilt)
Here NB, let me help you a bit, so you know the country.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada
Burn
;D
Try READING what I wrote there Sidestep and not twisting what I said about Canadian influence on American policy. When you can comprehend it states if they pull crap like that elsewhere- then they don't belong here. I didn't stutter when I said that. But again, avoid the blood of the workers that's on their corporate hands. Nice sidestep/ poor attempt at diversion. Stevie, but try READING AND COMPREHENSION.
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Try READING what I wrote there Sidestep and not twisting what I said about Canadian influence on American policy. When you can comprehend it states if they pull crap like that elsewhere- then they don't belong here. I didn't stutter when I said that. But again, avoid the blood of the workers that's on their corporate hands. Nice sidestep/ poor attempt at diversion. Stevie, but try READING AND COMPREHENSION.
No, of course you don't stutter - you stumble. Seems like you cannot comprehend because the study is about Marine Harvest CANADA. The "diversion" here is posting something (from 2008) from Wikipedia regarding Marine Harvest in CHILE deflecting from any positive work being done here in BRITISH COLUMBIA because you simply can't accept that people in the industry here want to make changes for the better even when it is documented that they are trying.
The blood of the workers...lol?? Nice dramatics there, NB. Which workers are you referring to? Are we talking about coal miners from Cape Breton now?
Canadian influence on American policy?? There's a new one...lol. Now that was actually funny. Good one.
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Pro guys are going Chuck Strahl on us.....they can't see the conflict. ;D
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Making a huge pocket of cash to start conflict. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/alexandra-morton-non-profit-revenue-2000-2010.html
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that article does a good job at twisting some numbers. 900k is not a lot of money at all. especially to run a non profit.
probably has a few full time staff... probably some kind of comprehensive medical/disability benefits. probably has an office/lab to maintain. travel, research expeditions. etc. that would eat up 900k pretty fast.
I work for a non profit, my understanding is that for an 'enterprise' to hold a non profit standing they are openly audited and everything accounting related is disclosed. All of my expenses and spending is accounted for down to the last penny. If you truly wanted to find out her 'salary' it would be fairly simple as she can't hide that.
It also fails to mention that true for profit companies use lobbyists. I'm not too sure there are any non profits of there actually paying people to sway government decision in their favour.
so, bob. maybe you can just post her salary and tell us how deep her pockets are with cash. You'd think if she was rollin in money she would take better care of her appearance.
i'm definitely interested to know what she takes home.
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No, of course you don't stutter - you stumble. Seems like you cannot comprehend because the study is about Marine Harvest CANADA. The "diversion" here is posting something (from 2008) from Wikipedia regarding Marine Harvest in CHILE deflecting from any positive work being done here in BRITISH COLUMBIA because you simply can't accept that people in the industry here want to make changes for the better even when it is documented that they are trying.
The blood of the workers...lol?? Nice dramatics there, NB. Which workers are you referring to? Are we talking about coal miners from Cape Breton now?
Canadian influence on American policy?? There's a new one...lol. Now that was actually funny. Good one.
Read this and see about the on the job deaths you seem to think are funny. And their wonderful labour practices Sidestep. Now there's something to mock about. Maybe you can get in touch with the families and have a good laugh about it. Only I think you'd be the only one that sees humour in that.
Are we really that desperate for the few jobs that we accept this kind of company to run here? Oh, one more little chore for you - go down across the line and tell them that Canada wants their policies changed. Let me know how that works for you ::)
http://www.puresalmon.org/labor_practices.htm
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Read this and see about the on the job deaths you seem to think are funny. And their wonderful labour practices Sidestep. Now there's something to mock about. Maybe you can get in touch with the families and have a good laugh about it. Only I think you'd be the only one that sees humour in that.
Are we really that desperate for the few jobs that we accept this kind of company to run here? Oh, one more little chore for you - go down across the line and tell them that Canada wants their policies changed. Let me know how that works for you ::)
http://www.puresalmon.org/labor_practices.htm
That link is a dead end NB.
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that article does a good job at twisting some numbers. 900k is not a lot of money at all. especially to run a non profit.
probably has a few full time staff... probably some kind of comprehensive medical/disability benefits. probably has an office/lab to maintain. travel, research expeditions. etc. that would eat up 900k pretty fast.
I work for a non profit, my understanding is that for an 'enterprise' to hold a non profit standing they are openly audited and everything accounting related is disclosed. All of my expenses and spending is accounted for down to the last penny. If you truly wanted to find out her 'salary' it would be fairly simple as she can't hide that.
It also fails to mention that true for profit companies use lobbyists. I'm not too sure there are any non profits of there actually paying people to sway government decision in their favour.
so, bob. maybe you can just post her salary and tell us how deep her pockets are with cash. You'd think if she was rollin in money she would take better care of her appearance.
i'm definitely interested to know what she takes home.
The so called none profits like Doc Morton should practice what they preach and be transparent about their finances and post it for their donors to see. Why should I have to dig for it? :)
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That link is a dead end NB.
fixed and you won't like the picture it paints
http://www.puresalmon.org/labor_practices.html
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fixed and you won't like the picture it paints
http://www.puresalmon.org/labor_practices.html
Kinda sounds like the garment industry that provides the clothes we North American Walmart, Target, etc, shoppers seem to crave ... but
why are you comparing outdated Chilean human rights issues and their aquaculture practices, to ours in 2014? As Steve said, it's like apples and oranges and, for so many reasons previously stated, is irrelevant to our situation in BC.
Show me how and where BC or Washington State salmon farmers have impacted wild salmon stocks, here in BC. Do that and that's when our salmon farming practices will become important to me. In the meantime I will concern myself with the real issues confronting wild salmon.
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Kinda sounds like the garment industry that provides the clothes we North American Walmart, Target, etc, shoppers seem to crave ... but
why are you comparing outdated Chilean human rights issues and their aquaculture practices, to ours in 2014? As Steve said, it's like apples and oranges and, for so many reasons previously stated, is irrelevant to our situation in BC.
Show me how and where BC or Washington State salmon farmers have impacted wild salmon stocks, here in BC. Do that and that's when our salmon farming practices will become important to me. In the meantime I will concern myself with the real issues confronting wild salmon.
Same company, different country Dave. I'd bet dollars to donuts they'd do the same thing here if they could get away with it. Didn't you post how screwed up the feedlots are making eastern waters and the impacts on the wild stocks there? Does that make them good corporate citizens? And it's not just the impacts on wild stocks, but the impacts from the pollution they add to our waters. You can't ever convince me that the crap they use to feed, medicate and treat the frankenfish doesn't have a profound effect on our waters.
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That same “crap” is used in our Provincial and Federal hatcheries Nova, likely more than most know.
I realize I can't change your mind but I do believe the salmon aquaculture industry practiced here by BC and Washington State does not have the same negative effects as we have seen in countries with indigenous Atlantic salmon.
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Read this and see about the on the job deaths you seem to think are funny. And their wonderful labour practices Sidestep. Now there's something to mock about. Maybe you can get in touch with the families and have a good laugh about it. Only I think you'd be the only one that sees humour in that.
Are we really that desperate for the few jobs that we accept this kind of company to run here? Oh, one more little chore for you - go down across the line and tell them that Canada wants their policies changed. Let me know how that works for you ::)
http://www.puresalmon.org/labor_practices.htm
As predicted you have gone into another sob story; however, as Dave correctly pointed out, you and all your fellow fear mongers are quite happy to shop at places that obtain products from 3rd World countries where labour practices are no better......but you mainly like it because the products are much cheaper. That's where your morally and concern for the poor workers in 3rd World countries goes by the wayside. Juan Valdez and his friends get thrown under the bus pretty quick so you can enjoy the great deals, don't kid me. So please, get off your soapbox and stop preaching like you are so concerned for Chilean workers. It is hollow like the rest of your arguments. You (and Pure Salmon Campaign) likely couldn't give a damn about them when you are shopping in Superstore when you pick up those Chilean grapes or those Joe Fresh clothes from Bangladesh. If you are so upset about labour practices in Chile then why don't you complain to those that are ultimately responsible - the Chilean government.
Few jobs? Again, you are so misinformed, NB. Farmed salmon is BC's number one agricultural export and employs 6,000 people directly and indirectly. Go to places on Vancouver Island like Campbell River and tell City Council that it is only a few jobs. Meanwhile they will be happy to know what your plans are to replace a major agricultural export with something else.
Hey there, Swifty.....Seems like you didn't understand your own humour. You are the one that said "Canadian influence on American policy" which I thought was kind of strange thing (and funny) to say because it should be the other way around. I actually paid you a compliment for your humour. Tough crowd.
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You can't ever convince me that the crap they use to feed, medicate and treat the frankenfish doesn't have a profound effect on our waters.
BC farmed fish are not genetically modified to enhance growth, so I don't know where you get "frankenfish" from.
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And another masterful Sidestep Steve- BTW I'm so glad you're shadowing me so closely that you're able to sniff out the labels on my underwear, and here I thought it was my cheeks. Did you enjoy shadowing me when I shop and rifling through my drawers to read the labels? Mumsy and Daddy wasted all that money on education and you're reduced to looking at others attire and food :o ;D. Pity. I notice a big gap in the less than spirited defense of Marine Harvest , the practices and legacy of the company by you and Mr. B. Another sob story? Pointing out the facts about a company history and expressing an opinion that they aren't worthy of trust is a sob story? Just sitting back or trying to polish that turd is a sob story. 6000 jobs you say? How many are part time and what's the pay scale?
So let me hear your defense of Marine Harvest's past.....
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Get the pop corn ready. Sheeple are producing a block buster on what they do not know. :)
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Get the pop corn ready. Sheeple are producing a block buster on what they do not know. :)
oh you mean exactly what you do, by taking a random link saying a non profit has an operating budget of 900k. and that her pockets are lined with cash.
substantiate your claims man. pretty basic. you expect facts. then present them.
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"Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, or public relations) to give the appearance of it coming from a disinterested, grassroots participant. Astroturfing is intended to give the statements the credibility of an independent entity by withholding information about the source's financial connection."
I might think differently if Doc Morton got something right. :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
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"Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message (e.g. political, advertising, or public relations) to give the appearance of it coming from a disinterested, grassroots participant. Astroturfing is intended to give the statements the credibility of an independent entity by withholding information about the source's financial connection."
I might think differently if Doc Morton got something right. :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
I think I may know what your talking about.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33865.0
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I think I may know what your talking about.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33865.0
Remember, you heard it here first.. Ol' Sidestep and Dave will appear in a few minutes telling us Bawb's an aid worker with the disadvantaged.
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Remember, you heard it here first.. Ol' Sidestep and Dave will appear in a few minutes telling us Bawb's an aid worker with the disadvantaged.
Heard what NB? Speculation that you thrive on? LOL. I have already told you why I post and you and others toss it aside. Carry on and I will get the pop corn ready for your next ground breaking production. :)
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"Carry on and I will get the pop corn ready for your next ground breaking production"
Make it a double helping of farmed salmon bawb. Friday in all.
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"Carry on and I will get the pop corn ready for your next ground breaking production"
Make it a double helping of farmed salmon bawb. Friday in all.
Even Farmfissurebawb won't ea\t that crap........
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And another masterful Sidestep Steve- BTW I'm so glad you're shadowing me so closely that you're able to sniff out the labels on my underwear, and here I thought it was my cheeks. Did you enjoy shadowing me when I shop and rifling through my drawers to read the labels? Mumsy and Daddy wasted all that money on education and you're reduced to looking at others attire and food :o ;D. Pity. I notice a big gap in the less than spirited defense of Marine Harvest , the practices and legacy of the company by you and Mr. B. Another sob story? Pointing out the facts about a company history and expressing an opinion that they aren't worthy of trust is a sob story? Just sitting back or trying to polish that turd is a sob story. 6000 jobs you say? How many are part time and what's the pay scale?
So let me hear your defense of Marine Harvest's past.....
Oh...did I hurt your fragile feelings again? As for masterful sidestep you have been the one avoiding the original study and decided to jump into labour practices. Now you don't like fact that you might be hypocrite who shops at those stores that gets products from 3rd world countries. But no...you only buy Canadian....lol. Fish farm critics have as much concerned for Chiliean fish farm workers as Harper has for scientists. Some big defender of worker's rights you are, swifty. As for shadowing I think that Depends do not have labels so you should safe from anyone rifling through your drawers or having anyone get close enough to sniff out the labels.
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-open-new-fish-farms
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Um, Steve you seem pretty defensive and avoid that little part about the Chilean operations and the way they abused their workers other than a dismissive snort. Your concern for other humans is so touching it just makes me wretch. FYI - I was at one point in my life a shop steward and worker safety was a primary concern. That stuff really puts the boots to your specious claims about the wonderful :o enterprises the mothership runs elsewhere. Where's the defense of the practices of those policies for the workers? Again, if they pull that crap there, what are they trying here? Sidestep the question as to how many of the McJobs are full time? How much do they pay? I didn't state that I only buy Canadian, but if I have a choice I do. You're losing steam little buddy and sidestepping masterfully.
ooohh Depends! How (not) witty! Mumsy and Daddy's tuition to comedy school was a waste of money. ;D
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Um, Steve you seem pretty defensive and avoid that little part about the Chilean operations and the way they abused their workers other than a dismissive snort. Your concern for other humans is so touching it just makes me wretch. FYI - I was at one point in my life a shop steward and worker safety was a primary concern. That stuff really puts the boots to your specious claims about the wonderful :o enterprises the mothership runs elsewhere. Where's the defense of the practices of those policies for the workers? Again, if they pull that crap there, what are they trying here? Sidestep the question as to how many of the McJobs are full time? How much do they pay? I didn't state that I only buy Canadian, but if I have a choice I do. You're losing steam little buddy and sidestepping masterfully.
ooohh Depends! How (not) witty! Mumsy and Daddy's tuition to comedy school was a waste of money. ;D
A shop steward AND a hypocrite now. Well, "former shop steward" perhaps you might want to compare the regulatory environments between Chile and CANADA before you get too concerned about "what are they trying here"? However, that would require you to do a little research and perhaps having to depart from your fear mongering which I can see making you kind of uncomfortable. As for how much the jobs pay why do not you ask them yourself. You know...take some initiative to find out the facts instead of relying on misinformation.
No need to go to comedy school when you provide lots of opportunity to dig you back.
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Maybe I was too hasty with the comedy school flop. You know as well as I do that many of the "6000 jobs" are part time and on call in the processing end. Logistics? Same. I only asked those tough questions because of your claims about being somewhat of an expert on the subject.
Did they abuse:
A) - The environment
B) - The workers
You know the answers Stevie but choose to sidestep
Hilarious!
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/627_zps9e531ba3.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/627_zps9e531ba3.gif.html)
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If this is, I am sure you would be the first to post it.
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If this is, I am sure you would be the first to post it.
????????? Huh? If what is what?
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Here you go Steve - read this and tell me again about the 6000 jobs (and growing, much like that stories nose) and the wonderful economic engines the feedlots are, spewing cash all over the province. All rearng is done organically and they change those Depends every 2 hours. ::) Jobs, jobs and more jobs. ;D ::)Wanna revise that theory? Oh wait a minute. This is the Canadian arm. Although they do it everywhere else, they wouldn't do it here......would they?
https://www.georgiastrait.org/files/share/PDF/CCPA_fish_farms.pdf
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Can't make it past the first page with out asking for donations lol. As for your part time work NB, how does it compare to the tourist and our sport fishing industry? Oh never mind, you do not answer questions. Same as Doc Morton.
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Here you go Steve - read this and tell me again about the 6000 jobs (and growing, much like that stories nose) and the wonderful economic engines the feedlots are, spewing cash all over the province. All rearng is done organically and they change those Depends every 2 hours. ::) Jobs, jobs and more jobs. ;D ::)Wanna revise that theory? Oh wait a minute. This is the Canadian arm. Although they do it everywhere else, they wouldn't do it here......would they?
https://www.georgiastrait.org/files/share/PDF/CCPA_fish_farms.pdf
Did you happen to check the date on that article you posted? You found some old data (Bummer, eh?). It might be beneficial to have more recent statistics. As for most of those 6000 jobs being part time and on call in the processing end that is not exactly what I found; however, it is conceivable that fish and seafood processors handle fish and seafood products harvested by the capture fishery as well as those produced by the aquaculture sector (i.e. Walcan). If you are also going to talk about part-time employment you will definitely find it in the capture fisheries which you didn’t mention. In fairness, I found out that measuring employment figures with industries like aquaculture is difficult and that employment in the industry has decreased by 10% between 2000 and 2011 (not sure if that includes all aquaculture – not just farmed salmon). Nevertheless, there is no doubt that with the declines in forestry and commercial fisheries that aquaculture has become more prominent in a variety of communities on Vancouver Island like Campbell River. It is not just the fish farm companies themselves, but the many companies that supply goods and services to the aquaculture industry (i.e. nets, fish processing, transportation, diving services, machinery, etc.).
Overall, the economic importance of salmon aquaculture to the province is fairly small when compared to other marine-based industries. Sports fishing, commercial fishing, salmon processing, and marine tourism all surpass salmon farming in GDP, employment, and export revenue. – Fishy Business: The Economics of Salmon Farming in BC (2003).
If you look over the long term (2000 to 2011) and compare real GDP increases between capture fisheries, sport fisheries, fish processing and aquaculture you will notice that the BC aquaculture industry has experience the most dramatic growth, increasing 47.7% since 2000.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/ref/aqua-es2009-eng.htm#ch3
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/2008_industryprofile_pwc.pdf
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/british_columbias_fisheries_and_aquaculture_sector_2012_edition.pdf
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/omfd/fishstats/proc/index.html
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Hilarious!
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/627_zps9e531ba3.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/627_zps9e531ba3.gif.html)
Which one is you? You both seem happy...Congratulations.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/nature-responsible-for-poor-salmon-runs-1.796887
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/fish-farmers-support-salmon-research-1.796889
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Earning your paycheck at the fishfarm today bawb. Some days you've been slacking off. :-\
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Rebutal to Doc Morton's astroturfing.
I found it an interesting listen.
Jan 23 2014 CKNW Radio.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/radio-programs-salmon-farming
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Rebutal to Doc Morton's astroturfing.
I found it an interesting listen.
Jan 23 2014 CKNW Radio.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/radio-programs-salmon-farming
Is this you the guy is replying to bawb:
"Yeah, so Suzuki may have overstated his case. I’m suspicious of that web site you cite, being an opponent of fish farming myself. Suzuki was mentioned in my post about genetically engineered trees. I guess your point is he’s not credible? Or are you trying to make a more general point about environmentalists?"
You never did answer back :-\
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http://salmonconfidential.com/2014/01/31/science-bloggers-take-on-the-film-my-blog-and-dr-gary-marty/
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Bawb your posting garbage on that link.
http://environmental-history-science.blogspot.ca/2014/01/salmon-confidential-video-science-and.html#!/2014/01/salmon-confidential-video-science-and.html
"I'll probably use it in the classroom. It's useful as an example of using video to bring science into a public debate. It's also useful because there are two relevant websites: one accompanying the film, salmonconfidential.ca, which provides supporting material, and salmonconfidential.com, set up by an anonymous salmon farmer as an attempt to refute the film."
I don't see the name on the person responding to his blog. Marty? or smarty pants anonymous salmon farmer? I did find this responce from Marty.
http://environmental-history-science.blogspot.ca/2014/01/salmon-confidential-response-from-dr.html#!/2014/01/salmon-confidential-response-from-dr.html
Hopefully your not doing that kind of work at the fish farm or your going to kill off the dirty fish. :P
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/01/31/activist-math-contaminants-and-the-art-of-fear/
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=754
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http://environmental-history-science.blogspot.ca/2014/01/salmon-confidential-response-from-dr.html?m=1
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http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/02/04/rob-breakenridge-we-need-a-better-david-suzuki
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Other than Dave or Steve , nobody bothers to read your self serving links Bawb. I'm finding ignoring the bologna very liberating, but I do miss the belly laughs...
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Nova it's funny you would post that on a thread that has 688 reply's and 22thousand some views. Even funnier that the thread is called "get your facts straight". And you really believe that only steve and dave read bawbs post's. Thanks for the demonstration.
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Nova it's funny you would post that on a thread that has 688 reply's and 22thousand some views. Even funnier that the thread is called "get your facts straight". And you really believe that only steve and dave read bawbs post's. Thanks for the demonstration.
Oooops , sorry I forgot about you being on the cheerleading squad too. I look to see if Bawb (King of independent thought :o)is thinking on his own, instead of posting farmyard waste. Apparently not, as it's all still propaganda from the feedlots. Carry on!
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I don't tend to read either's post as they are rarely more mudslinging and name calling, but bob can lead one to interesting places. Here is a good read by a fellow environmental historian (he posted that response by dr Marty on his blog), in it he discusses the history of the use (and misuse) of science by both on both sides of the debate over salmon farming and the changing role and use of scientific inquiry to support political, economic and social agendas.
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http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2526330
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Looks like Don did not have his facts right, if he has any at all.
http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/court+dismisses+activist+appeal+attempt
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He may have to sell his condom suits to pay his fine. Just wait for the plea for donations :)
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Apparently Don has a job now....
Stifled in B.C., Staniford said he "had no real choice but to set up shop somewhere else," and he is now working with a private Scottish land owner, taking action against the industry, specifically the Norwegian-owned companies.
"My boss has six salmon farms within 30 kilometres of her salmon river, so the challenge is to move those six farms by 2020 and fight the Scottish government's plans for a 50 per cent expansion of the industry by 2020."
http://www.timescolonist.com/gagged-fish-farm-foe-takes-fight-against-industry-to-scotland-1.769967#
After his boss is stripped clean of whatever money he/she has after being sued to kingdom come Don the parasite will move onto another host.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/agrimarine-profits-and-fish-swim-away-literally/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/sweetspring-salmon-calls-for-investors-to-keep-afloat-part-3-of-4/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/sweetspring-salmon-calls-for-investors-to-keep-afloat-part-3-of-4/
"This site is downright eerie. Anonymous voices, appearing to advocate managing for “ranched” fish over wild fish, claiming that “at Thanksgiving, no one cares…” whether a turkey is wild, farmed or ranched–and, by extension that no one cares whether our salmon are ranched, farmed or wild? Yikes. I agree with those who observe that the lack of transparency on this site is disturbing and ultimately discrediting. As far as “no one caring…” My wife and I care. Many others do as well"
well fishfarmen posten varmen bawb likes their crap ;)
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http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/foreign-terror-funding-cut-off-from-canada/3193713051001
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http://m.coastreporter.net/article/20140221/SECHELT0303/302219978/-1/sechelt/base-opinions-on-fact-not-fiction&template=JQMArticle
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http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/foreign-terror-funding-cut-off-from-canada/3193713051001
Come on... Ezra Levant... please.... that guy keeps being condemned and keeps issuing retraction and apology for his statements.
I like this one:
"Justice Robert Smith ruled that Levant 'spoke in reckless disregard of the truth and for an ulterior purpose of denormalizing the Human Rights Commission across Canada which makes his statements malicious in that sense."
Gives you an idea of Levant's sense of ethics... By the way, if you did not know, Levant wrote the book "ethical oils"....
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3 letters.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/picking-and-choosing-cohens-final-report
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Come on... Ezra Levant... please.... that guy keeps being condemned and keeps issuing retraction and apology for his statements.
At least he does retractions where retractions are due.
I think Rick Mercer makes some good points on ezra here in his rant back in 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiYVo86j0tA
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Namgis
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/namgis-salmon-farm-attracting-investors-and-irritating-everybody-else-part-4-of-4/
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farms-seek-new-feed-fend-peak-salmon-problem
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farms-seek-new-feed-fend-peak-salmon-problem
Another interesting read Fisherbob. Keep em comin' ;)
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we can always treat them as canadian cows and puff some corn.
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Another interes ting read Fisherbob. Keep em comin' ;)
delusional entertainment ;D
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Another interesting read Fisherbob. Keep em comin' ;)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/tumblr_m9cckmRlJK1rd2qw6o1_400_zpsdf7aac0f.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/tumblr_m9cckmRlJK1rd2qw6o1_400_zpsdf7aac0f.gif.html)
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Hope animal feeders are looking for better sources of feed oil.
"Fishmeal is also widely used as a food source for variety of purposes such as poultry, pigs, cattle and sheep. They can be of great importance in enhancing the quality of poultry and others by fattening them. fishmeal also fulfills all the protein requirements"
http://www.agricultureguide.org/fishmeal-plants/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/02/27/antibiotics-in-aquaculture-getting-the-facts-straight/
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bob thanks for that youtube link in the ocean acidification thread.
however, your last link here doesn't address the fact that aquaculture generally exists is open water where the antibiotics are free to swim around and enjoy the currents.
obviously more is used in land based farming, but it's disposal isn't as readily distributed in the ocean. same with pets.... sure they are given antibiotics. but they are probably thrown in the garbage to be in a landfill or they are flushed down the toilet.... and I think peoples antibiotics are more likely to end up in the ocean than the ones prescribed for pets.
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What the last link clearly outlines is that there are individuals (in this case economics professors) who are critical of salmon farming, but have no idea about it. Like I said before....If someone is going to be highly critical of something so strongly then take the time to learn something about it. The professor in this case shows so much ignorance - making assumptions which are not even reality of the industry (at least here that is).
Land-based farming disposal isn't as readily distributed in the ocean? If it ends up in ground run-off into tributaries or big rivers like the Fraser why couldn't it can eventually find it's way to larger water bodies - like the ocean? What about all those farms between Chilliwack and Delta - could it not enter the Fraser River? Once waste makes it's way to the Fraser River delta why couldn't it be distributed in the ocean? According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), the biggest source of pollution in the ocean is land-based. Apparently 80% of the pollution to the marine environment comes from land.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/pollution.html
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yes steven. it will eventually make it to the ocean... but it gets filtered by the ground, processed or pollutes indiectly.
in larger quantities yes. but not as direct
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http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/information
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Filtered by the ground, processed or pollutes indirectly? Hmmm.....well, if it "gets filtered by the ground" then why does NOAA suggest that 80% of the ocean pollution begins on land? So pesticides and fertilizers are just "indirectly" making their way so that is not as bad? We haven't even touched on storm drains or even ground water impacts. How much precipitation falls in the Lower Mainland annually? C'mon stop making me giggle, banx.
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come on steve. I don't think i'm coming across correctly to you. I don't mean its 'filtered' in a good way. all of what i was saying is bad. terrible. just not good. and its not intended to make you giggle.
all i'm saying is its not as direct. yes it does make its way into water sources, obviously. in huge quatities. its just cows don't live in the ocean.
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What does it really matter? Both situations have waste that directly or indirectly (better to say non-point source pollution instead) goes into the water which ends up in the ocean. Whether farmed salmon and cows do their business in different environments is a bit of a red herring. Waste that comes out of the Fraser is free to swim around and enjoy the currents also. However, it is pretty clear which activities share the bigger piece of the pollution pie as well as the main source of this pollution.
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Marine harvest growing market size salmon on land.
http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/pdf/MHC%20Newsletter%20March%202014%20WEB.pdf
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Filtered by the ground, processed or pollutes indirectly? Hmmm.....well, if it "gets filtered by the ground" then why does NOAA suggest that 80% of the ocean pollution begins on land? So pesticides and fertilizers are just "indirectly" making their way so that is not as bad? We haven't even touched on storm drains or even ground water impacts. How much precipitation falls in the Lower Mainland annually? C'mon stop making me giggle, banx.
Short answer: Because over 80% of human activity takes place on land. As we expand our activity in the ocean you can bet that percentage will change accordingly. How is arguing that land based agriculture pollutes the ocean going to show that aquaculture doesn't pollute the ocean anyway? We have done a lot to MINIMIZE (but not eliminate) the agricultural runoff (expansion of the riparian zones so farmers cannot plow right to the stream course is one), because we know it is a major source of pollution but pesticide and fertilizers continue to be a major polluter of our waterways, and yes they lead to the ocean. None of this changes the fact that open net pens discharge waste directly into the ocean with no filtration at all. Does it make sense to force land based farmers to reduce their environmental impact, while agriculturalists are allowed to freely discharge waste directly into the ocean? The argument that fish farms cover a small area becomes moot once government and industry talk about continued expansion. That percentage is going to change.
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Short answer: Because over 80% of human activity takes place on land. As we expand our activity in the ocean you can bet that percentage will change accordingly. How is arguing that land based agriculture pollutes the ocean going to show that aquaculture doesn't pollute the ocean anyway? We have done a lot to MINIMIZE (but not eliminate) the agricultural runoff (expansion of the riparian zones so farmers cannot plow right to the stream course is one), because we know it is a major source of pollution but pesticide and fertilizers continue to be a major polluter of our waterways, and yes they lead to the ocean. None of this changes the fact that open net pens discharge waste directly into the ocean with no filtration at all. Does it make sense to force land based farmers to reduce their environmental impact, while agriculturalists are allowed to freely discharge waste directly into the ocean? The argument that fish farms cover a small area becomes moot once government and industry talk about continued expansion. That percentage is going to change.
No, it is not meant to show that aquaculture doesn't pollute the ocean. It is meant to show how skewed the criticism is of aquaculture waste into the ocean when the biggest offenders have been doing this for a long time now and share a much bigger percentage. The same argument can be made that aquaculture has done a lot to minimize (but not eliminate) waste discharge into the ocean. For instance, the amount of feed used is video monitored to help prevent the unnecessary waste and benthic monitoring is a condition of their licence. Salmon farming in BC is likely the most regulated resource industry in the province and the regulations here are amongst the most stringent in the world. Can't say the same about land-based agriculture, but of course salmon farming is the big Boogeyman so all those other impacts on land get pushed aside because "they are not on the water".
Even the latest report from NOAA dispels some of those myths:
http://www.seafoodsource.com/en/news/aquaculture/25232-noaa-coastal-aquaculture-environmentally-safe
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Talking trash under the net pen Steve. That link you posted should come with TP. Thanks for the chuckle.
"NOAA has a chonic case of anal-cranial inversion. At a time when Canadians and others are looking to go from open water-net pen aquaculture to land-based contained facilities due to problems of feed loss, antibiotic and pesticide/herbicide use with net pens, and the continual problem of escapes, NOAA make the outrageous claim that marine cages are the future of aquaculture. This is pure nonsense and is not based on fact, but rather what NOAA perceives as its regulatory jurisdiction.
"There are only two instances of the word 'disease' in this 170 page report; one in a section discussing the fact that marine mammals may stress caged fish and result in greater disease in the farmed fish, the other in a sentence referring to the notion that wild fish in tropical regions might contract diseases when they congregate around aquaculture cages. I realize this is only a "comprehensive review of some predominant environmental risks" but I think the conclusion is a bit premature and the headline just a tad overstated."
"Absolutely mind-boggling to think it's "environmentally safe." I totally agree with Zeke Grader's comments. Also, it's shameful that NOAA is not concerned with the health of the oceans, ecosystems and the livelihood of the fishermen. I reckon taking orders from the Department of Commerce is the reason NOAA published this report; business as usual."
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http://www.ec.gc.ca/inre-nwri/default.asp?lang=En&n=235D11EB-1&offset=14&toc=show
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=37&article_id=104158
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/03/06/calling-shenanigans-again-on-mortons-junk-graph/
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=758
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Talking trash under the net pen Steve. That link you posted should come with TP. Thanks for the chuckle.
"NOAA has a chonic case of anal-cranial inversion. At a time when Canadians and others are looking to go from open water-net pen aquaculture to land-based contained facilities due to problems of feed loss, antibiotic and pesticide/herbicide use with net pens, and the continual problem of escapes, NOAA make the outrageous claim that marine cages are the future of aquaculture. This is pure nonsense and is not based on fact, but rather what NOAA perceives as its regulatory jurisdiction.
I am sure fish farm critics see problems with feed loss, antibiotic and pesticide/herbicide use with net pens. That's the problem - they see lots of things, make things up to make them more real or use exaggeration.
"There are only two instances of the word 'disease' in this 170 page report; one in a section discussing the fact that marine mammals may stress caged fish and result in greater disease in the farmed fish, the other in a sentence referring to the notion that wild fish in tropical regions might contract diseases when they congregate around aquaculture cages. I realize this is only a "comprehensive review of some predominant environmental risks" but I think the conclusion is a bit premature and the headline just a tad overstated."
On the other hand, you will see the word "disease" used many, many more times in anti-fish farm propaganda. If you use the word enough times it makes it more scary I guess. Being informative is not consideration.
"Absolutely mind-boggling to think it's "environmentally safe." I totally agree with Zeke Grader's comments. Also, it's shameful that NOAA is not concerned with the health of the oceans, ecosystems and the livelihood of the fishermen. I reckon taking orders from the Department of Commerce is the reason NOAA published this report; business as usual."
Yeah, must be another conspiracy brewing. Way to go for providing a reference for this, TB....lol.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576088/DDT-salmon-Pesticide-discovered-farmed-fish-sale-five-major-British-supermarkets.html
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=258&article_id=104240
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Steve.... Actually not that I'm too excited to continue a conversation but they can be removed from the water.... Everything you listed can't easily be moved or engineered
And yes bob, farmed anything is not as good as anything natural. Beef is a huge example which aquapaloosa can vouche for... Grass fed beef contains the same good fats and cholesterol as wild fish. It's why Argentinians do not have the same heart problems as North Americans. It's why sipping from the tit of your mother is better than anything called formula
What I got from that article is that eating is probably good for you. If you starve yourself it's probably not good for you or your brain. So if you have a chance reply on a full stomach :)
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http://grist.org/sustainable-food/in-argentina-factory-farms-replacing-grass-fed-beef/
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Nice too see they already despise the North American way of feeding cows. I forwarded the link to my Argentinian colleagues. Guess they can't brag as much anymore. Thanks for the link bob
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http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/dfo-fudging-the-numbers-court-finds-bars-commercial-fishery-off-vancouver-island/article17391117/?service=mobile
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Absolutely terrible headline........should read Fisheries minister overrides DFO recommendation to not open fishery.........typical of the political slant of that newspaper.
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Only in BC?
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=258&article_id=104409
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Another closed containment fail.
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=258&article_id=104473
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it's not a fail in principal robert. the power went out, due to an equipment failure.
kind of like the people in ontario who took food out of their freezer and put it in the snow outside so it didn't go bad.
I think this analogy sums up open pen farming nicely.... so mankind is basically taking a dump in your sink, all the pollution the industrial development, poor waste water treatment etc etc... just bad. but the thing is theres no toilet, so its gotta go in the sink. now open pens farms are like you urinating on that turd sitting in the sink. sure it's definitely not as bad as that turd laying on the bottom of your sink. it will be easier to clean up and the damage won't linger as long as that turd.
so really, do you "need" to be urinating on that turd? can't you just go on the grass? ;D
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Take your pick :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/if-you-were-a-salmon-ocean-raised-or-land-based/
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it's not a fail in principal robert. the power went out, due to an equipment failure.
Actually, it is a fail, and one that illustrates one of the highest risks of tank farming. Even with claimed triple redundancy the system was not sufficiently reliable to bring the crop to market. This isn't a one-off either. The last crop through the Nanaimo tank farm built by Hagensborg was completely lost due to the same problem and the majority of the first crop being grown in the operation near Campbell River was also lost to equipment failure. Raising fish in tanks is not only a biological proposition but also an economic proposition and the significant risk of equipment failure needs to be factored in to the economic analysis of the viability of farming fish in tanks.
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Yes exactly, I guess you never fell when you learned how to ride your bike, and I'm sure the open penners were batting 100% off the bat. I guess an open pen farm has never had to cull any fish either.
“We believed we had an extremely robust electrical system with three levels of redundancy. We lost power after an extremely unusual sequence of events, unlike anything I’ve experienced in my 25 years in the business,”
ok, stop the entire development of this process.........
bob, I'm not eating either.
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Leaner and greener
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/03/140319-salmon-farming-sustainable-aquaculture/?now=2014-03-19-00:01#
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Yes exactly, I guess you never fell when you learned how to ride your bike, and I'm sure the open penners were batting 100% off the bat. I guess an open pen farm has never had to cull any fish either.
“We believed we had an extremely robust electrical system with three levels of redundancy. We lost power after an extremely unusual sequence of events, unlike anything I’ve experienced in my 25 years in the business,”
ok, stop the entire development of this process.........
bob, I'm not eating either.
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the dead fish. It's a simple concept really. When you set a goal there are but two possible outcomes. You either succeed in accomplishing it or you fail; clearly they failed. It doesn't matter if the operator "hadn't seen anything like it in 25 years". He still failed at bringing his crop to market.
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You want fail look up fishfarming in Chile. Or look up fishfarmer bawb ;D
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I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the dead fish. It's a simple concept really. When you set a goal there are but two possible outcomes. You either succeed in accomplishing it or you fail; clearly they failed. It doesn't matter if the operator "hadn't seen anything like it in 25 years". He still failed at bringing his crop to market.
and the probable hundreds of occurences of open pen farmers FAILING to bring their crops to market??? shouldn't that mean the process should be abandoned as well?
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I think you have to weigh the successes against the failures. In the case of open pen salmon farms the percentage of successes so far exceeds the percentage of failure so that over all it is successful and continues to succeed.
If you do the same with closed containment failure vs success the overall results are not the same. Not even close. Close containment continues to have the ability to find investment money but never really seams to pay any of it back. This keeps happening time and time again.
It is an interesting time in the debate. With many great returns last year of various salmon runs and this years forecast it is no wonder the anti salmon farming campaign is fairly quiet. There just sitting back waiting to pounce I sure when one of the runs doesn't meet the prediction.
Its no wonder Morton has changed her toon to other topics other than salmon demise and virus testing. Tough times for activist I guess.lol
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and the probable hundreds of occurences of open pen farmers FAILING to bring their crops to market??? shouldn't that mean the process should be abandoned as well?
Has someone suggested abandoning anything?
They are welcome to continue trying so long as they can continue to find funds to do so. There are a couple of points you need to bear in mind though.
- success isn't just predicated on bringing a crop to market but rather on bringing it to market at a profit and at a scale that has the potential to replace open pen farming. To date, that hasn't been accomplished anywhere.
- in the absence of government loans and private foundation grants, replacing the sunk costs of a loss such as this eats up all the potential profits for the next five years assuming they can produce and turn over five successive crops at a 20% profit margin, a rather optimistic outlook given the high costs and high risks of the method. This translates into a best case scenario of an effective six years with no return on investment.
- wanting something to work has absolutely no bearing on the likelihood of it doing so.
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I think you have to weigh the successes against the failures. In the case of open pen salmon farms the percentage of successes so far exceeds the percentage of failure so that over all it is successful and continues to succeed.
If you do the same with closed containment failure vs success the overall results are not the same. Not even close. Close containment continues to have the ability to find investment money but never really seams to pay any of it back. This keeps happening time and time again.
It is an interesting time in the debate. With many great returns last year of various salmon runs and this years forecast it is no wonder the anti salmon farming campaign is fairly quiet. There just sitting back waiting to pounce I sure when one of the runs doesn't meet the prediction.
Its no wonder Morton has changed her toon to other topics other than salmon demise and virus testing. Tough times for activist I guess.lol
yes you are correct, but your also comparing a fairly new way of raising salmon compared to the decades of experience open pens have had. lets also not forget the growing pains open pen farms have had with virus issues, sea lice, on going pollution, structural problems withe pen materials, predation...... right now your comparing gas mileage of a 1978 chev blazer with a 350 vs a with an eco boost ford focus.
if open pen farms are going to continue to receive various funding from governmental organizations then closed containment should also continue receiving possibly delerious investing.... even if its scewed.
morton is crazy, and I don't think you have to be an activist per se to thnk that theres a better way to raise salmon than in a pen in the ocean.
absolon.... there is a higher risk such as the the power outage article that open pen fars are not going to have because they sit in the ocean. They are also not on the hook financialy for potential environental damage. they are also subsidized in the event of a disease outbreak. Thats the most brilliant business model possible other than cutting cocaine.
The rules for calculating compensation, including maximum amounts, are
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2000-233/page-1.html#h-2
its going to be a while, dare I say a few more failures before it is profitable. or until the costs go up for having a pen sitting in the ocean... I searched for a very long time and i could'nt find any actual costs farms pay to sit in the water and if there are environmental 'permits'. I read through the bc aqualculture license regulations and there are many 'measures' in place and there are no consequences. and consequences only listed in the fisheries act..... which reads as though none could apply to a farm.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2010-270/index.html
and this is a list of farms located in BC. its a rather large list. If you factored in an environmental tax like you have with the goverment wanting to impose carbon tax these open pen deals aren't so lucrative. other than reading about a farm being fined for killing sea lions in nets. no environmental costs that I can find are imposed on farms. tough to beat that financial advantage.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/licence-permis/docs/finfish-pisciculture-eng.html
this coming from a fisherbob-esque link.
Fish Farms reel in another $400 million in Canadian subsidies
On another aquaculture front, you may be even more unhappy to know Shea announced $400 Million in gifts to the aquaculture sector in Canada last week. That’s a lot of dead, diseased fish. I have asked her for $400 million be given to the commercial, sport and processing sectors in BC that provide 600% more in contribution to gross provincial product than fish farms. I’ll let you know.
Fish, profits turn to mush
And fish farms in BC have been losing money. Mainstream lost money in 2012. Marine Harvest has lost money in the last few years, too, largely due to Kudoa, a fungal disease that cost them $12,000,000 in 2012 – and just prior, in 2011, things were so bad they laid off 60 employees – right before Christmas. Nice guys.
Kudoa results in myoliquifaction that makes farmed fish into mush. Would you buy salmon you had to put in a container with a spoon?
Grieg losing money, drowning sea lions
Oh, and then there is Grieg. They got IHN too, last year, in their Cullodon site in Sechelt. Fortunately, we did not have to pay for that as well. Grieg is also the company that had to pay a fine of $100,000 for drowning 65 – 75 sea lions in their Skuna Bay nets in 2010 – they tarted up that site to sell to the unsuspecting in the USA as environmentally-sustainable, organic farmed salmon. Where is PETA when you need them?
Grieg has also been losing money:
In Canada, the company cut losses, with a negative ebit [sic] before fair value adjustment of the biomass of NOK 2.71/kg, compared to a loss of NOK 8.22/kg in the same quarter of 2012.
And the kicker? Cermaq is owned 59.2% by the government and thus the people of Norway. Why do we give another government our money for their killing our fish in our ocean rather than raising their fish on land in closed containers? This does not make sense.
Ask Shea for BC’s $400 million. We can spend it on habitat restoration, something DFO has been sadly remiss about in BC for decades. This year’s total DFO habitat projects for BC is a measly $900,000, only 2.6% of our own money Ottawa sent to diseased fish farms in BC.
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
doesn't read like they are raking in the profits.
Salmon Farming in British Columbia:
Industry Evolution and Government Response
By David Conley, M.Sc.
http://www.aquacomgroup.com/Page_sections/About_us/documents/BC_Salmon_Ind_Evol-r.pdf
The Entrepreneurial Phase, 1985-89
From 10 farms at the end of 1984, the industry grew to 119 farms in 1987 and to 140 farms in 1989. At its
peak the industry was comprised of about 100 companies, decreasing to 75 by August of 1989. Total
industry production went from 100 metric tonnes in 1985 to 12,400 metric tonnes in 1989. This rapid
growth created a number of problems which have tainted the industry ever since.
The attitude of the provincial government of the day toward salmon farming was one of “laissez-faire”. It
had no intention of hindering the growth of the new industry, nor did it provide any help in the way of
economic incentives, planning or policies to facilitate orderly growth as the Norwegians had done.
The Marine Resources Section of the Ministry of Environment was responsible for advising BC Lands on
site capability but the Ministry failed to formulate any land use planning for the industry. Staff was few and,
like the industry, relatively inexperienced in the biophysical realities that defines a successful salmon
farming site. Although they were able to eliminate the obviously bad sites, it was largely up to the
prospective farmer to determine the suitability of a site.
This opened up an exploitive situation where unscrupulous consultants acquired Investigative Permits
from BC Lands to examine the suitability of potential farm sites and then sold them to prospective salmon
farmers as fulfilling the necessary biophysical criteria. This speculation in and consequent use of unproved
farm sites had devastating results for some fledgling companies.
The influx of investors and entrepreneurs between 1985 and 1987 created a “gold rush” mentality, which
blinded people to the realities of the industry. Salmon farming in BC, despite its existence since the early 1970s, was still in a learning stage and relatively unproved for large volume production."
..........."Diseases, such as Bacterial Kidney Disease (BKD), vibriosis and marine anaemia, took a large toll during
this period. Attempts to maximize capital investment by holding fish at high densities only served to
maximize stress for the Pacific salmon, resulting in severe disease outbreaks. The industry averaged
losses of 30% of its production per year and some farms suffered losses as high as 70% in a given year.
Handling and grading also brought on outbreaks of disease.
The lack of trained farm staff with skills in fish health and fish husbandry, combined with a shortage of
veterinarians experienced in fish disease diagnosis and treatment, compounded the problems. Antibiotics
were applied in feeds to stem the losses but were ineffective because sick fish stop eating. This
challenged the industry and research institutions to find better ways to detect and monitor disease
organisms, as well as to develop preventative strategies, such as vaccination, to provide long term
protection for the fish.
In addition to disease problems, the Sunshine Coast was prone to nearly annual episodes of plankton
blooms that killed the farmed Coho and Chinook in great numbers. The recurring blooms caused salmon
farmers to leave the Sunshine Coast, beginning in 1987 and accelerating through 1988-89. Most migrated
north to the Campbell River / Desolation Sound area while others went to the west coast of Vancouver
Island in the area of Clayoquot Sound. These regions had cooler summer water temperatures and less
likelihood of blooms. More important, the new areas were less populated, which reduced possible conflicts
with other resource users"
and look what open pen farming has developed into. I think it may be erronous to expect closed containment to fail.
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You're welcome to all of your opinions, and to all your hopes for closed containment. It matters not whether your perspective is realistic or not.
Those opinions don't change the fact that this particular instance was a fail and don't change the fact that after some 40 years of trying, no-one has been able to commercialize this kind of growout system for salmon. The laws of the applicable physics conflict with the laws of the applicable biology, and until that little dilemma is resolved, no-one is going to make this work.
It also doesn't change the fact that this kind of failure has a tremendous impact on the financial viability of the companies pursuing it, a cost that has so far been covered by grants, defaulted loans and investments that eat considerable investor capital. It is an extremely risky proposition. No-one is suggesting that people shouldn't try to make it work, but personally, I'm not going to invest in it............ Are you?
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absolon. in all honesty my opinion does feel unrealistic. To expect a process to change only because "it's good for the environment" will probably never happen.
like you said there is no comparison in profit margins between the two ways of raising salmon to market..... you can't give potential envronmental damage a dollar value to insert in a formula.
and with that, the two can never be compared equally.... my thoughts are that marketing of a closed containment product is what is going to help make them more viable. consumer education.
would I invest in personally. well I believe I am with the taxes I pay. along with a host of things I disagree with.
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What kind of whine goes with mushy chemical dripping net penned salmon? :-\
Whine away.
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Conley's paper on the history of the industry is an interesting read. I was involved in the "gold rush" days of the industry as one of the first of the trained group of workers trying to bring some rationality to the pursuit of riches and can attest that he is mostly accurate in his summation. As he suggests, as a consequence of the work of anti-farm activists, public opinion and understanding hasn't kept pace with the development of the industry and has resulted in an extremely unproductive conflict between the ideals and opinions of the activists and the real on the ground consequences of the industry. That conflict isn't going to be resolved until it is focused on the "realities" instead of the "potentials" and it certainly isn't going to be resolved by online pissing matches in sport fishing forums.
A Danish friend ran the Hagensborg tank farm and I had a good deal of both personal and business involvement with the operation so I am quite familiar with the requirements for making those operations work. I watched the operation eat between 20 and 30 million dollars of investor money including 3/4 of a million dollars of public money before it's eventual demise and since it is about a kilometer from my home, have kept close track of the various subsequent attempts to make it viable since then. It is currently operating as an algae farm with some space leased to to an investor funded operation trying to develop cultivation techniques for Black Cod. The only reason it is still in existence is that the current owner acquired it at pennies on the dollar and used largely Indian Affairs money to acquire those pennies with the stated intent to use it as a shellfish depuration facility. That lasted until the non-native owner screwed over his native partners and walked away with full ownership and a good beating. It is not a pretty business nor a particularly ethical one.
I understand your sentiments about funding those things you disagree with. I, along with everyone else, am funding the attempts by Harper to remake this country in his own image, Charter of Rights and the underclasses be damned.
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well, it is what it is, I suppose. At least theres crazy morton to keep them the most highly regulated in the world.
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At least theres crazy morton to keep them the most highly regulated in the world.
And that may be her legacy. Not so bad ..
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And that may be her legacy. Not so bad ..
Damning with faint praise.... Colour me shocked
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"Despite some desperate efforts by a small, extreme segment of the environmental movement to try to convince the general public and the mainstream media that ocean-based salmon farming is destroying wild fish and the environment in general, some international environmental organizations and national media outlets are taking an interest in the subject, and finding the situation to be quite different."
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=37&article_id=104509
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farming-gets-leaner-and-greener
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"If you are farming fish that eat fish, you are reducing the amount of fish available for humans to eat. Farmed salmon are dreadful for feeding people and for protecting ocean health, though they might make good business sense," said Sharpless.
Thanks for the post Bawby
I already knew that though. People will do anything to make some money. Even shamelessly promote a badly run industry like open pen fish farming. :-\
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Take from the commons?
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/take-from-the-commons-or-try-something-different-its-a-good-question/
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Looks like Doc Morton will not be out of work any time soon. :)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/new-jobs-created-stronger-rules-say-bc%E2%80%99s-salmon-farmers
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=81&article_id=104668
"By anti-salmon farming activist Alexandra Morton: I will comment more later, but that was a very, very difficult day. I was unable to communicate the risks, so much so I had to ask one of them after if I had been called a "liar". It was very disappointing. (Alexandra Morton on Facebook)"
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Well now the have good old "Nancy " piping up for fish farms. How a skier turned senator makes a good committee member on any kind of farming seems skeptical. Maybe some perks from the Salmon farming industry?
By Nancy Greene-Raines, the only Committee member from B.C.:
On January 2, 2009, Greene took her seat as a Conservative member of the Senate of Canada
Thanks for posting that odourous link FarminFishbawb.
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http://www.vancouversun.com/business/company+applies+sell+genetically+modified+salmon+Canada/9601660/story.html
MMM MMM mm tasty.
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While some other people try to get it right.
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/David+Suzuki+helps+develop+insect+based+fish+food+with+Video/9040019/story.html
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=81&article_id=104668
"By anti-salmon farming activist Alexandra Morton: I will comment more later, but that was a very, very difficult day. I was unable to communicate the risks, so much so I had to ask one of them after if I had been called a "liar". It was very disappointing. (Alexandra Morton on Facebook)"
I honestly feel sorry for Almo as her passion for wild fish is obvious, just majorly misdirected in the causes of their decline. I think this Senate fact finding tour might slow her anti salmon farm fear mongering, and that of her followers, considerably.
Alex, time to do something important … start advocating for the low population salmonid stocks that are going to be overfished this late summer, when the PSC/DFO will be intensely lobbied by all user groups to harvest what they think is their share of returning Shuswap sockeye.
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Why Greenpeace can’t – and won’t – ever be taken seriously
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/why-greenpeace-cant-and-wont-ever-be-taken-seriously/
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Seriously,I think your speaking about yourself and that hate website you keep referring to. :-\
Meanwhile on the proactive side of things some are doing what mega-doses of SLICE (pesticide) fed to farmed salmon are failing at.
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/03/27/can-cute-fish-solve-sea-lice-problem-vexing-salmon-farms
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It never hurts to look forward and try something new TB. Thanks for the link. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/why-greenpeace-cant-and-wont-ever-be-taken-seriously/
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Keep the SLICE coming Bawb. How's things at the net pen? Same old same old, nothing new, getting any deals on the mushy ones?
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Keep the SLICE coming Bawb. How's things at the net pen? Same old same old, nothing new, getting any deals on the mushy ones?
Too funny TB. Do you still believe in the tooth fairy? :)
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"What has she ever done that was actually “for” wild salmon?"
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/tag/alexandra-morton/
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well I believe she has never tossed a bouncing betty on the fraser.
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http://www.bcsalmonfacts.ca/#!/fact/first-nations
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http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Loblaws+first+offer+responsiblyfarmed+certified+Atlantic+salmon/9600590/story.html
Meanwhile Fishfarmbawb shovels the SLICE into the netpens. :P
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http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Loblaws+first+offer+responsiblyfarmed+certified+Atlantic+salmon/9600590/story.html
Meanwhile Fishfarmbawb shovels the SLICE into the netpens. :P
Just an observation, but it looks like you are simply dribbling on your own shoes with your comment, while at the same time promoting Norwegian farmed salmon. Good for you TB, that is a start in the right direction :). Its also nice to see that Loblaws gives the consumer a choice.
"Melanie Agopian, senior director of seafood sustainability with the supermarket chain, said only one Atlantic fish farm in Norway has been approved by the group, which introduced the standards late last year."
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Speaking of dribbling shouldn't you be dribbling some chem on the penstock. I'd hate to read about truckloads of dead fish coming from the farm your at because you waste time on the internet. :-\
" only one Atlantic fish farm in Norway has been approved by the group" wonder why bawb, read the article and learn what you are doing wrong. :P
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http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/cbs_60_minute_backgrounder_salmon_farming_in_bc.pdf
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saw some nice half pink grey farmed atlantic salmon tonite at costco that I wouldn't even feed my dog ! and the price yikes ! shoulda took a pic !
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saw some nice half pink grey farmed atlantic salmon tonite at costco that I wouldn't even feed my dog ! and the price yikes ! shoulda took a pic !
Grey like a naturally occurring white spring perhaps. Should posted a picture. Ill try to drum up some yucky white spring flesh photos to compare and Ill bet the white spring will look far worse yet there is nothing wrong with a white spring.
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saw some nice half pink grey farmed atlantic salmon tonite at costco that I wouldn't even feed my dog ! and the price yikes ! shoulda took a pic !
Yeah, a picture would have helped your argument against farmed salmon. Expensive was it? How much was halibut? How much was fresh coho, chinook, or sockeye? Oh wait, there is none ;D
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Are we sportfishers hypocrites? Or just out of touch with history and what is happening on the west coast today.
http://msc.khamiahosting.com/sites/default/files/Timeline%20of%20Atlantic%20salmon%20in%20Pacific.pdf
"1958: Atlantic salmon successfully introduced into Hosmer Lake in Oregon, in the Deschutes River sub basin of the Columbia River.9 The population is maintained by hatchery spawning which continues to this day."
I can just see American born Doc Morton doing a face palm lol. :)
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Yeah, a picture would have helped your argument against farmed salmon. Expensive was it? How much was halibut? How much was fresh coho, chinook, or sockeye? Oh wait, there is none ;D
I can waite for wild salmon it to be in season but.... that slimey looking over priced atlantic stuff is like yuk ! it was $27 for1 fillet didnt look at the price per kg
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I can waite for wild salmon it to be in season but.... that slimey looking over priced atlantic stuff is like yuk ! it was $27 for1 fillet didnt look at the price per kg
A simple picture would have made more sense. Was it farmed in the US? May I suggest you go back, and back up your feelings with a picture. :)
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A simple picture would have made more sense. Was it farmed in the US? May I suggest you go back, and back up your feelings with a picture. :)
maybe next time bawb..... go to costco and look at it for ur self to see if u would feed it to ur family
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maybe next time bawb..... go to costco and look at it for ur self to see if u would feed it to ur family
Sorry but I live 4hrs drive from a costco. A picture and the origin of the salmon you speak of would be nice to back up your feelings. :)
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2013/09/25/farmed-salmon-beats-wild-in-washington-post-taste-test/
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feelings don't need to be backed up with facts. arguments, yes definitely. but not feelings. I think someone is allowed to feel a certain way.
that link you posted would be like people saying they prefer the tast of 'regular' grain fed beef as opposed to natural grass fed beef.... that gamey flavour is too much for a few.
..."When standout flavors were detected, it was not in a good way. A couple of samples had off-flavors that were picked up by some tasters, but not by all."
I have also never tasted fish that was "off" generally my mom told me eating things that are "off" are probably bad.
also the winner is packed in a salt solution...... and you have two restaraunt guys, a pro fish farm corporate guy, and three jabronis who work for the paper that are happy for a free lunch.... that taste test is about as scientific as ms.mortons work.
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I have been told the Atlantic's sold in the Abbotsford Costco are imported from Chile. Perhaps an interested reader shopping there could confirm that by checking the packaging or asking the manager.
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Doc Morton starts her yearly migration. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/ms-morton-using-misinformation-spread-fear-about-farm-raised-salmon
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Keep up the good work, Bob.
That dollar per post is going to pay off someday...
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Keep up the good work, Bob.
That dollar per post is going to pay off someday...
Translation: I don't agree with fisher bob so I will call him a shill the nicest way I know how.
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Huckster actually you know what that means? :-\
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Translation: I don't agree with fisher bob so I will call him a shill the nicest way I know how.
Translation- I'm a shill too! ;) ;D
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farmer-achieves-gold-sustainability-standard
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farmer-achieves-gold-sustainability-standard
just more propaganda by the farmers !
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just more propaganda by the farmers !
;D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-bQn9DtgUA
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Some good news for you NB. It looks like salmon farming is helping. :)
http://www.worldfishingnetwork.com/news/post/atlantic-salmon-fishery-keeps-on-growing-on-east-coast
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/04/22/farmed-salmon-is-only-3-of-global-aquaculture-production-so-why-is-it-all-we-ever-hear-about/
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Sweet Spring.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/sweet-spring-finally-sprung/
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Yellow light or simple US marketing?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/26/verlasso-farmed-salmon-seafood-watch/2693365/
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/monterey-bay-flip-flops-farmed-salmon-sustainability
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Myths ?
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farm-critics-repeat-myths
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=huckster
No matter how you SLICE it.
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shill
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People may think what they want, however I feel there is no harm in reading both sides of the story. :)
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A suprisingly balanced article from David Suzuki:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-suzuki/farmed-salmon_b_5235800.html
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/kuterra-salmon-already-failing-the-taste-test/
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farm-critics-repeat-myths
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bob that article is ridiculous man. seriously. one guy says he doesn't like the flavour. it's muddy. hahaha wow. you talk about supporting facts and all that. and then you post this..... i'm sure he is a michelin rated chef of course. probably moonlights as a marine biologist in his spare time.
it's like a 5 year old saying they like frozen chicken fingers better than a roasted organic free range chicken. because it tastes better dipped in bbq sauce.
your continued posts from said sites, (which are getting less and less articulate as the months go by) also help to support the grass roots movement. it is creating an under-dog feeling. and you as well as I know that everyone cheers for the under dog.
you have these foreign owned corporations, receiving hand outs of my tax money, while they pollute the environment. constantly talking about the 'truth and 'facts' and you post biased opinions camouflaged as the "truth about alaska salmon"
makes it real real easy to cheer for morton. even though she's crazy.... real easy
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May I suggest the ones that are crying for closed containment go to Safeway way and try it for them selves. I would like to hear the review. Doc Morton should be on top of this already hehe :)
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what did you think of it's flavour sir?
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I am waiting for Doc Morton's opinion of the taste. If its worth all that money perhaps TB and NB will try it out and let us know how it is. :)
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Or me, as I am curious now ... If I can find some in our local Safeway I'll give it a try, and compare it to sea pen raised Atlantic's that I will purchase at the local Superstore. Bob, I may be wrong but I don't think Almo endorses any type of farmed salmon, even CC. Chris, you and her are tight- is she in favour of CC salmon farming??
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Looks to me like Doc Morton should be doing the taste test :)
http://www.straight.com/news/alexandra-morton-applauds-bcs-first-closed-fish-farming-tank
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Thanks for that Bob. My guess is my taste test report will be before hers ;)
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"Ms. Morton urged the crowd at Centennial Square to demand that all B.C. salmon farms be moved from open water to closed containment systems on land."
"We can have our salmon farms on land and we can have our wild salmon back," she said. "We can have both."
Ask Doc Morton if the taste of this salmon is worth $36.90/kg. :)
"But a customer in Alberta, Canada, has provided The Truth About Alaska Salmon with their review: “a bit muddy, very soft and without flavor.” The customer couldn’t finish eating the fish as it left a “film on the teeth”. The only good news was that “the dogs really liked it!”
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/kuterra-salmon-already-failing-the-taste-test/
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I guess the albertans know their salmon..... with that easy access to both oceans I suppose. :P
on a side note Dave. I would be interested on how your going to cook em for your taste test. Some people (myself included) cook different species of salmon different ways..... the way I cook pink is much different from coho... and cooking coho the same way I cook a pink doesn't bring out the best flavour of a coho... maybe one of these closed pen guys, an open pen guy and a frozen coho if you have?
so what's your plan? bbq with a lil olive oil, salt and pepper?
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I picked up 2 small kuterra fillets this morning; very pricey .... $15.56 for .390 kg. The product is sold skin on, is very pale in color, much like chum or pink and is striated with fat, like other farmed Atlantic's. I plan on removing the skin and cooking it the same way I nearly always cook salmon - fried in a very small amount of olive oil, sprinkled with seasoned salt and fresh pepper.
Will give a report this evening.
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Dave, Were all the fish small or just the ones you chose?
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Dave, Were all the fish small or just the ones you chose?
There were very few fillets available, the manager said they had only had this product for 3 days. Judging by the size of the fillets I purchased, the fish would have been about 5 lbs, max maybe a bit smaller. I asked the seafood manager if any other customers had commented on this product, and apparently no one had. She did say the price was the same as net pen Atlantics ($3.99/100 g) and the store was probably losing money promoting these fish.
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Should catch your own Dave, sure they will cost a lot more but way better and healthier for you.
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Should catch your own Dave, sure they will cost a lot more but way better and healthier for you.
Time to get with the real world Chris ;)
Well, I suppose we didn't do a true taste test as there were no fresh wild Pacific's or fresh pen raised Atlantic's across the table from the kuterra farmed salmon, which was prepared in the manner earlier posted. I was particularly interested in the comment that these fish tasted muddy and having some experience with poor tasting interior rainbow trout, I wanted to try this product for myself.
Out of the bag the portions of fillets smelled fresh and were firm, not soft. Absolutely no fishy smells, and the uncooked texture of this product was, imo, comparable to fresh farm raised salmon, or frozen Pacific's.
So how was it? My wife Arleen and I agreed it was very good, with zero muddy taste, and comparable to pen raised Atlantic's , and the many Pacific's we have previously eaten. It is certainly milder tasting than say a fresh caught coho or steelhead, and has a higher fat content.
If this is the future of cc salmon farming, I say wow, good stuff! Pricing and marketing?... another question.
Fwiw, I suggest this product could be improved by selling skinless portions.
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Thank you Dave. It looks like my post was mud. Goes to show we can not believe every thing we read no matter what side it comes from. It is great to know there are people like you that are willing to do the extra step and comment on it. :)
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Most of your posts are like mud, but smellier. More like that stuff under the net pen. Hope your not going to do something crazy to the fish under your care because of what Dave posted. There is still a good chance Dave will still have to buy more of the net penned fish until he's weened off the SLICE. So don't start cranking it out on the penners hoping for addiction rates to go up.
BTW having had Atlantic farmed salmon and not the real thing it's hard to make a comparison.
Dave you OK ;D what's gotten into you. But I have to admit I don't eat a lot of trout because of the taste. I should rename myself kokaneebreath. 8)
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http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2628219
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thanks for that Dave
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/12/activist-alexandra-morton-lies-on-national-tv/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/20/activist-alexandra-morton-makes-her-lie-even-bigger/
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http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/environmentalism-has-become-a-religion/15033#.U30EdyjlyUl
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/20/activist-alexandra-morton-makes-her-lie-even-bigger/
From Alex
Dear Dr. Penny Greenwood (CFIA):
I am writing to you because an anonymous blogger heckling me reports that:
"Dr. Greenwood, of the Canadian food agency, said that research to determine where one of Ms. Morton’s market-purchased samples came from produced conflicting accounts from people in the supply chain. Without a clear chain of custody, she said, there was no point testing the fish at all. She said there had been no attempt to cover up anything.
“We couldn’t even verify that that fish was in fact Canadian in origin,” she said”
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/20/activist-alexandra-morton-makes-her-lie-even-bigger
I’m sorry, but I don’t recall having a conversation with you, or any correspondence on this. I don't recall anyone from the CFIA asking me where my samples have come from.
The Globe and Mail contacted Loblaws and they confirmed the fish I was buying came from a BC supplier.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/supermarket-salmon-test-positive-for-virus-found-in-europe/article4100831/
I would be happy to discuss where my samples have come from. If BC markets are selling Atlantic salmon from outside Canada - as BC farmed salmon, I think that would be something the CFIA might want to investigate.
In any case, I writing to let you know I welcome discussion with you on the source of the salmon I am sampling. I know the CFIA gets this information with each sample I submit, but if there is indeed confusion, this is something that would be easy to clear up.
Thank you for your consideration,
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Nice link, thanks Bob.
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From Alex
Dear Dr. Penny Greenwood (CFIA):
I am writing to you because an anonymous blogger heckling me reports that:
"Dr. Greenwood, of the Canadian food agency, said that research to determine where one of Ms. Morton’s market-purchased samples came from produced conflicting accounts from people in the supply chain. Without a clear chain of custody, she said, there was no point testing the fish at all. She said there had been no attempt to cover up anything.
“We couldn’t even verify that that fish was in fact Canadian in origin,” she said”
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/20/activist-alexandra-morton-makes-her-lie-even-bigger
I’m sorry, but I don’t recall having a conversation with you, or any correspondence on this. I don't recall anyone from the CFIA asking me where my samples have come from.
The Globe and Mail contacted Loblaws and they confirmed the fish I was buying came from a BC supplier.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/supermarket-salmon-test-positive-for-virus-found-in-europe/article4100831/
I would be happy to discuss where my samples have come from. If BC markets are selling Atlantic salmon from outside Canada - as BC farmed salmon, I think that would be something the CFIA might want to investigate.
In any case, I writing to let you know I welcome discussion with you on the source of the salmon I am sampling. I know the CFIA gets this information with each sample I submit, but if there is indeed confusion, this is something that would be easy to clear up.
Thank you for your consideration,
Saying that your source is a Safeway or Superstore does not constitute a definite chain of custody. Saying it was a BC supplier sounds like a smoking gun but there is more to it than that. It is not just where the fish ultimately came from but who handled it, how it was handled and where it was taken between the time the fish was killed to the time it arrived to the lab. In addition, saying that the Globe and Mail confirmed this should be taken with a grain of salt because how much investigative work did they do into the matter. They may have well asked a Loblaw's spokesman, but there could always be more to the story that isn't discovered by even a journalist. If there were conflicting accounts from people in the supply chain it doesn't bode well for the credibility of the samples. Basically, if you want to do credible, defensible work you need to put the effort in otherwise you get the response by people like Dr. Greenwood.
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Steve, that stuff you wrote is almost hilarious, except I think your serious. :-\
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Of course this makes us very suspicious of what is going on at FOC as well as the FF issue,very sad this whole situation we are faced with related to fisheries and the hush hush from so many.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ministers-say-salmon-not-being-restored-in-fraser-river/article18789252/
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Steve, that stuff you wrote is almost hilarious, except I think your serious. :-\
Not as funny as your ignorance on the subject. In this case I am serious.
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The reply I expected ;D
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The reply I expected ;D
What is happening, no response to my post above, I guess you chaps are getting worn down. ;D ;D ;D
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What was your question?
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What was your question?
Response to this:
Of course this makes us very suspicious of what is going on at FOC as well as the FF issue,very sad this whole situation we are faced with related to fisheries and the hush hush from so many.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ministers-say-salmon-not-being-restored-in-fraser-river/article18789252/
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Oh, that Cohen thing? ;D Said at the very beginning it was a farce and the money would have been better spent on habitat restoration; instead we paid lawyer's mortgages ..
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http://m.yourdoctorsorders.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yourdoctorsorders.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fsalmon-wild-v-farmed-how-an-alaska-native-learned-to-love-farm-salmon%2F&dm_redirected=true#2684
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
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http://www.returningtohope.com/
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One of your bests Bob :D
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One of your bests Bob :D
Thanks Dave :)
http://www.returningtohope.com/
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http://seafood.oregonstate.edu/.pdf%20Links/Farmed%20or%20Wild%20-%20Both%20Types%20of%20Salmon%20taste%20Good%20and%20Are%20Good%20For%20You.pdf
Could be a very good reason why salmon farming in Washington is not on the NGO's radar. :)
http://wfga.net/issues.php?ID=68
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Kinda lame posting years old propaganda from the " global aquaculture advocate ". Also 14 year old tidbit of fluff Bawb. Get back to feeding SLICE to those fish under your care. Slacker.
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Who kills the wild salmon?
http://tholepin.blogspot.ca/2013/10/goa-chinook-under-heavy-bycatch.html?m=1
Btw TB. I do enjoy your presuming comments. Keep the parroting up. :)
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I'd hate to mention it again Bawb but it looks like the fish your looking after are getting a little licey. Better break out the extra strong SLICEy before things get dicey. With all the time you waste on the internet the pen net goes wanting for attention. Slacker.
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You do listen TB. You just did what I told you to do. Outstanding :) All you need to do is ask what I did for a living instead of making yourself sound silly TB. Unlike the AFF boys, I can answer a question.
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It's what you do now for a living. Not something you did (before) silly billy. Feed em SLICE slacker.
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http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/tag/alexandra-morton/
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/news-newsletters-and-blogs-interest-week-0
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Good post Bob. I especially liked Dr. Kristi Miller's paper - exactly what was requested by Cohen. I expect we will hear much more from her.
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/news-newsletters-and-blogs-interest-week-0
All put out by the pro side of the issue and just like government does all the time always right and never wrong and an answer for everthing. Just watch Question period when they answer questions from the opposition benches.
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News for the week. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/news-and-blogs-interest-week-2
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News for the beek:
The American biotech firm AquaBounty has applied for permission in Canada and the United States to market a fast-growing genetically engineered Atlantic salmon, but the company has faced opposition from environmental groups and a number of grocery store chains have said they will not sell GE fish.
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and your point is ???
What has GE salmon to do with BC salmon farming practices?
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News for the beek:
The American biotech firm AquaBounty has applied for permission in Canada and the United States to market a fast-growing genetically engineered Atlantic salmon, but the company has faced opposition from environmental groups and a number of grocery store chains have said they will not sell GE fish.
Airball!!
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Tax pay out? Mr Bunker will love this one. :)
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2631964
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Anything other than shill to contribute yet Bawb? How much do you get paid for disinformation?
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I knew you would like that one Bunker. :)
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Strange the things that amuse you Bawb. I know fishing with a rod isn't one of them. Anyway start feeding the dirty fish some SLICE it is sea lice season. In case you forgot.
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Since I've exposed that every one of his posts are feedlot droppings. Ma\ybe he should start a board for feedlotters as it's apparent that most sportsfisherman see the "fish farms" and the operators for what they are.And that all Bawb comes here for is to shill for them and nothing else.
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Since I've exposed that every one of his posts are feedlot droppings. Ma\ybe he should start a board for feedlotters as it's apparent that most sportsfisherman see the "fish farms" and the operators for what they are.And that all Bawb comes here for is to shill for them and nothing else.
I am more than happy that I give you some thing to do and you take the time to comment Arch. I think I have just as much right to voice my feelings as you do. If you want to muzzle me, simply start a vote thred. I promise to stop posting if I am voted out. How does that sound Bunker? :)
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bob, even though we disagree on the ol farm subject. I am glad you are here to provide a different perspective.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33865.15
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bob, even though we disagree on the ol farm subject. I am glad you are here to provide a different perspective.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33865.15
Thank you Banx. :)
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bob, even though we disagree on the ol farm subject. I am glad you are here to provide a different perspective.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33865.15
I do agree with Bob on salmon farming and hope he continues to post what he does.
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/news-and-events-interest-week
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/news-and-events-interest-week
oh Bawb, quit posting the news u just wrote ! lol just kiddin
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http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/restore-wild-salmon-ban-salmon-feedlots-in-bc
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Might just try this out. :)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/farm-tours
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Might just try this out. :)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/farm-tours
Bob, if I lived closer I would be all over this. Sounds like a great way for people to see salmon farming first hand, talk to the operators, perhaps share your concerns, then listen to their side. On site and on the water, as it should be :D
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Bob, if I lived closer I would be all over this. Sounds like a great way for people to see salmon farming first hand, talk to the operators, perhaps share your concerns, then listen to their side. On site and on the water, as it should be :D
Bawb could post first hand pictures of him feeding them SLICE if he wanted, but he's holding back until it's "cool". Maybe a little extra help from yourself and other extra "fish experts" he can pull that off Dave. Thank God your retired. 8)
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/a-fishy-tale/
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New regs.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/bc-salmon-farmers-welcome-new-aquaculture-regulations
Over view.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-salmon-farmers-welcome-new-aquaculture-regulations
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http://www.sierraclub.bc.ca/our-work/seafood-oceans/issues/salmon-farms
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This should keep Bawb busy for months........
http://chickenonaraft.com/
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http://netrightdaily.com/2012/02/sierra-club-gets-in-bed-with-chesapeake-energy-for-a-mere-26-million/
http://foxriverwatch.com/sierra_club.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/19/local/la-me-sierra-club-20111119
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http://www.ubcic.bc.ca/Resources/fishfarmpaper.htm#axzz3629ewtS8
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http://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp?PostID=45267
http://www.tlatlasikwala.com/upcoming-opportunities.html
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http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v465/n7300/full/465869d.html
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http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v465/n7300/full/465869d.html
C'mon Nova, a 4 year old Chilean salmon farming story?? How is that relevant to BC salmon farming practices? Your chickenonaraft post was way better ;)
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Another great rally today actually 2, will get some video up later, Dave has seen the pictures and I think he was impressed. ;D ;D ;D
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C'mon Nova, a 4 year old Chilean salmon farming story?? How is that relevant to BC salmon farming practices? Your chickenonaraft post was way better ;)
Um, because a lot of the same companies are here.......And please don't try and tell me Bawb's self serving feedlot scatology is gospel.
BTW - That was Bawb's raft. Did you ask his permission before spending hours on it? ;D
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/noaa-aquaculture-source-sustainable-seafood
http://youtu.be/x4JP49GnR3c
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1355936/Pollution-from-fish-farms-as-bad-as-sewage.html
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Was that article first published in 2000 or was that when it was re-published? At first I thought it was news but then I got to wondering if it had been re-circulated over and over and this was just the most recent iteration.
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Posts like this are a direct result of the mothership, Almo, taking on water ;D Just wait, an anti will soon dredge up a 10 year old study on Irish (or Scottish or Nova Scotian , or ..., but never, ever Washington State) salmon farms and how pregnant women and small children should stand at least 10 feet back from any farmed salmon.
More importantly, what happened to troutbreath?? Miss the owly bugger ;)
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A fresher catch
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/NAFTA+oversight+group+calls+investigation+into+fish+farms/9868750/story.html
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http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10050284
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https://wildernesscommittee.org/wild_salmon
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An advocate for fisheries
Outspoken officer’s book calls for everyone to be accountable
By Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Sun July 18, 2014
Randy Nelson’s book describes the adventures and politics of being a fishery officer in B.C.
Combine a thirst for adventure with a dedication to conservation and a gift for innovative scheming, and you will have Randy Nelson, a fishery officer in B.C. In Poachers, Polluters & Politics, he tells of some of his most memorable moments at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) and expresses opinions about how we are succeeding and failing at protecting B.C.’s most important resource.Q You’ve had some pretty creative strategies for catching poachers. Do you have an all-time favourite?
A My favourite method of catching a poacher was chasing them down on foot (I ran a 2:32 marathon). I chased literally hundreds of poachers throughout my career. I learned to never catch them right away — run them until they dropped. I never got into a physical confrontation with anyone I chased; they were usually a pile of wheezing, gasping jelly by the time I caught them.
Q Your job was full of all sorts of dangers. Was there a specific threat — either human or natural — that worried you the most?
A Well, you can’t reason with a charging grizzly bear — but then again — you can’t reason with some of the people out there. I was stabbed in the chest, hit by a truck, had my shoulder broken with an oar, and nearly drowned (to name a few), but the most lasting threat I felt was an anonymous death threat I received at home. I often left on patrols leaving my wife and two infant daughters alone, wondering who’d made the threats and if they would ever come to the house.
Q As a fishery officer, you must have a lot of knowledge about aquaculture, and its effects on the wild salmon population. Do you think it is possible to build a sustainable aquaculture industry?
A The industry should be moved to closed containment. The effluent and chemicals that are being put into fish-bearing waters would land anyone else in court. Closed containment would be a sustainable industry and could expand into a worldwide model of environmental stewardship that any politician could boast about.
Q The Cohen Commission on Fraser River sockeye was announced in 2010. What has come out of this $26-million public inquiry?
A 1. Zero response to the public
2. Muzzling of the internal response prepared by DFO staff
3. Lifting the ban on aquaculture (contrary to the recommendations)
4. Shutting down the website without giving the public an official response — now that’s arrogantly alarming!
Most things work on a three-strike principle but that’s four and counting! I predict some form of response before the next federal election to try to put out some of the flames. I also predict the response will be filled with hollow promises and studies and a few committees.
Q If the DFO received additional funding for protecting our waterways, how would you like to see it allocated?
A The Cohen Commission came up with a number of recommendations that describe what needs to be done. I would also like to see B.C.’s habitat protection staff numbers reinstated. This would put control of our habitat back in the DFO, not the National Energy Board! I challenge the federal government to talk to me about a host of ideas that could save money and improve DFO. The current bureaucrats are too scared and filter the facts, much the same way beer becomes urine, or food becomes effluent.
Q You are rather outspoken about the federal government, and its handling of fisheries issues. How did you manage to stay out of trouble throughout your career?
A I tried to always stick to the facts, and hold on to them until a timely opportunity arose to present them to the right person. Holding people accountable applies as much to your supervisors as it does to your employees. I can honestly say I never got in trouble for sticking to that strategy, despite the many attempts that were made to “throw me under the bus” (a direct quote from a very senior person in Ottawa) after I testified and told the truth at the Cohen Commission.
Q What poses the most risk to our fish populations and waterways: poachers, polluters or politics?
A Everyone has an impact and until everyone admits that and stops pointing fingers we’re not likely to improve. All user groups, including the public and environmental groups, have become too complacent. Governments are experts at dividing the public so they can continue to procrastinate. I really can’t believe the lack of response to the Cohen Commission. If you haven’t spoke out and demanded a response, then you too are part of the risk to the resource.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
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A The industry should be moved to closed containment. The effluent and chemicals that are being put into fish-bearing waters would land anyone else in court. Closed containment would be a sustainable industry and could expand into a worldwide model of environmental stewardship that any politician could boast about.
BINGO!
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=37&article_id=106796
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Looks like we should put ourselves in closed containment Nova.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/no-swimming-advisories-at-3-vancouver-beaches-1.1923780
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http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/schools/law/lawreviews/journals/bcealr/27_1/03_TXT.htm
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http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/schools/law/lawreviews/journals/bcealr/27_1/03_TXT.htm
Interesting...
"one fish farmer in Britain solved his sea lice infestation problem by throwing seven kilograms of onions into his fish cage every week."
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Wonder if they were Sliced onions ;D ;D ;D
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Wonder if they were Sliced onions ;D ;D ;D
Walla Walla sweets please, lightly caramelized in butter......
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Q The Cohen Commission on Fraser River sockeye was announced in 2010. What has come out of this $26-million public inquiry?
3. Lifting the ban on aquaculture (contrary to the recommendations)
Where in the recommendations did Cohen recommend the banning of aquaculture in BC? When you read the recommendations it was specifically directed to the Discovery Island area.
From Cohen Final Report (Volume 3; Chapter 2: Recommendations, page 25):
14 Beginning immediately and continuing until at least September 30, 2020, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should ensure that:
• the maximum duration of any licence issued under the Pacific Aquaculture Regulations for a net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health subzone 3-2) does not exceed one year;
• DFO does not issue new licences for net-pen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2); and
• DFO does not permit increases in production at any existing net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2).
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http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/schools/law/lawreviews/journals/bcealr/27_1/03_TXT.htm
Can you show me these studies that show that salmon farms cause toxic algae blooms, specifically off our coast? When I look at one of the references (i.e. The costs of eutrophication from salmon farming: implications for policy) I don't see much mention of any actual scientific work which conclusively found that salmon farms caused toxic algal blooms. References in this section of the article you posted are strung along in a sequence that supposedly implicates salmon farms as the major culprit, but I can't find any referenced study that actually looked into this and produced data to back up those findings.
Additionally, there is no mention of the risk of toxic algal blooms to wild fish vs. the risk to farmed fish. Any brief mention of behavioural adaptations and avoidance of blooms are missing. More importantly, there is no mention of the natural occurrence of toxic algal blooms off our coast and the other environmental conditions that come into play to create them.
This is the best report I could find on the subject which went into any detail:
http://www.whoi.edu/fileserver.do?id=39383&pt=2&p=29109
It seems like it may be possible that some localized enhancement of blooms could occur near fish farms, but there is no evidence (as of the year of the article which was 2007). It appears if farms were located in poorly flushed bays and inlets that nutrients released from farms could exacerbate blooms, but the fact is that sites here in BC are chosen with good water flow to reduce the risk of toxic blooms. This is probably why these kills on fish farms here are not as common as some critics believe.
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Not to be talked about - It's on the "We can't talk about it" list.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/mark-hume/toxic-algae-may-be-killing-salmon-probe-told/article2133150/
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Not to be talked about - It's on the "We can't talk about it" list.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/mark-hume/toxic-algae-may-be-killing-salmon-probe-told/article2133150/
I'm aware of this from the Cohen. I'm not denying that toxic algae can kill marine life. What I'm asking is can you find me studies that implicate salmon farms as the cause of toxic algal blooms off our coast. This is what the article you posted did but is very vague on details. The researcher in the G&M article doesn't implicate salmon farms as the cause; instead talks about these blooms in general as possible cause for Fraser Sockeye declines.
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Hard to lift the Cone of Silence (or Cohen Of Silence :o)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/tumblr_mfvqoy8D2B1rntnrzo1_500-300x198_zps3ae9d23c.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/tumblr_mfvqoy8D2B1rntnrzo1_500-300x198_zps3ae9d23c.jpg.html)
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Funny Nova, but you have not answered Steve's question.
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Funny Nova, but you have not answered Steve's question.
I wasn't aware there was a timed posting stipulation. I'll work on my response times by climbing into my Delorean and reading the forthcoming posts so I can have the response ready before any questions get asked.. ::) I'm sorry I can't get timely responses for 2 reasons -one is business is booming, sales are up over 50% from last year, number two is the government shutting everyone up or out. You pick.three- I just got back from dropping a bunch of materials and equipment for my upcoming work on Bowen this week. (You can meet me live and in person at Horseshoe Bay, 6AM, lane 69) If you can pry some info out of DFO, let me know who to call. ;) Ooops - one too many.
Now I gotta go finish my pressure washing so I can fire up the scoot and go for a nice Sunday ride.
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http://www.bren.ucsb.edu/news/gaines_aquaculture_nceas.htm
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http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/files/schools/law/lawreviews/journals/bcealr/27_1/03_TXT.htm
Never Boinked'er (since you seem to like making fun of peoples names) I am curious why you have edited this to remove any reference to the date or the fact that it was written by a lawyer who seems to live in Boston? Does her lack of credentials in marine biology make her a kindred spirit with "Dr" Morton?
Or is it because it is a 15 year old study that actually involves American fish farms and has little relevance to salmon farming in the 21'st century in BC?
Here is the submission to the Boston College Law Review in its entirety. http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1219&context=ealr (http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1219&context=ealr)
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OOPS
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Never Boinked'er (since you seem to like making fun of peoples names) I am curious why you have edited this to remove any reference to the date or the fact that it was written by a lawyer who seems to live in Boston? Does her lack of credentials in marine biology make her a kindred spirit with "Dr" Morton?
Or is it because it is a 15 year old study that actually involves American fish farms and has little relevance to salmon farming in the 21'st century in BC?
Here is the submission to the Boston College Law Review in its entirety. http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1219&context=ealr (http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1219&context=ealr)
Well Gourd ( or do you prefer Gored? ;)) since that report has someone invented Pampers for fish? No you say? So the poo goes under the pens and does nothing but foul the ocean. That's a fact Jack. And the chemicals used to kill sea lice, the antibiotics and all the other crap involved in the feedlot business have been replaced with biodegradable fairy dust, imported from Middle Earth. Carry on! ( Are you Bawb's supervisor at the feedlot? :o)
BTW - That report echoes mine and others concerns.
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Sorry Bawb - I forgot you:
http://www.sustainoursounds.org.nz/seabed-pollution/
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global news was talking about a die off on griege's fish farm... an algae bloom apparantly. ms.morton believes otherwise.... talked about pumping dead fish 6 days ago, and red spots on the belly of those still alive.
steward hawthorn says its misinformation.
what would cause red spots and be harmless?
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I caught the last of that on TV banx ... way more information needed to make any informed opinions but here are 2 possible reasons for the red spots ...
the fish are dying from this bloom, bad things are happening to their internal organs hence some hemorrhaging on the skin or, and more likely I think, the fish are sloughing sea lice and again, immune systems are not up to speed due to impending death so lesions occur.
Jut my uniformed opinion of course :D
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Not all dead fish float on the surface. Carcasses can sit on the bottom for weeks before surfacing. Grieg is probably collecting fish that died a week or more ago, but I'm sure Morton wants to say that the fish are still dying of some disease. Like Dave says, the spots could be the result of different things; however, it should be emphasize that fish whether it's farmed or wild can have various pathogens and not necessarily suffer negatively (i.e. mortality) from their presence. If someone says that fish should not have any pathogens because it's not normal then they are either ignorant or they are lying.
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Well Gourd ( or do you prefer Gored? ;)) since that report has someone invented Pampers for fish? No you say? So the poo goes under the pens and does nothing but foul the ocean. That's a fact Jack. And the chemicals used to kill sea lice, the antibiotics and all the other crap involved in the feedlot business have been replaced with biodegradable fairy dust, imported from Middle Earth. Carry on! ( Are you Bawb's supervisor at the feedlot? :o)
BTW - That report echoes mine and others concerns.
It is not a report. It is a submission to a law review in the States about American fish farms, including catfish farms, by a lawyer.
The report was written in the last century by a Harvard lawyer to get her name in the law review and if you had credited it as such I wouldn't have a problem. But you conveniently edited out any reference to date or origin to mislead someone reading your post. That is the problem I have with the "Doctor"s various campaigns, like yourself she uses all sorts of misleading information to "prove" her point instead of just using science. And like yourself she has found that it is easier to attack the person rather than prove her case with facts.
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thanks dave and steve. It appeared to me from watching the segment that she was trying to make two points. 1.) this is some sort of 'new' disease.... and 2.) they are trying to hide this.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1495995/biologist-raises-alarm-about-salmon-farm-in-nootka-sound/
personally I don't feel they are hiding anything if they are openly talking about killing 44,000 salmon. as for a new disease, well I don't know if she's grasping at straws. I've seen all kinds of weird things on wild salmon and trout i've caught. even some stuff like ick or fin rot when I was first starting out playing with aquariums.
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It is not a report. It is a submission to a law review in the States about American fish farms, including catfish farms, by a lawyer. i
The report was written in the last century by a Harvard lawyer to get her name in the law review and if you had credited it as such I wouldn't have a problem. But you conveniently edited out any reference to date or origin to mislead someone reading your post. That is the problem I have with the "Doctor"s various campaigns, like yourself she uses all sorts of misleading information to "prove" her point instead of just using science. And like yourself she has found that it is easier to attack the person rather than prove her case with facts.
Then it dovetails in nicely with the feedlot propaganda that Bawb claims to be gospel truth. I'm merely a foil to the non stop feedlot Pravda that Bawb throws up here. As far as editing goes, I simply posted a link that led to the article. I didn't edit squat - that was the same link I read that I posted. False accusations Gordo. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Then it dovetails in nicely with the feedlot propaganda that Bawb claims to be gospel truth. I'm merely a foil to the non stop feedlot Pravda that Bawb throws up here. As far as editing goes, I simply posted a link that led to the article. I didn't edit squat - that was the same link I read that I posted. False accusations Gordo. You don't know what you're talking about.
Oh so you don't do any due diligence at all, just copy and paste everything you read on the internet? That is exactly the problem I have with evangelicals, they just keep repeating what they are told by their leaders.
http://stopmasturbationnow.org/trending/california-forest-fire-caused-by-masturbation-accident/ (http://stopmasturbationnow.org/trending/california-forest-fire-caused-by-masturbation-accident/)
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GordJ, you will find most of the anti's on this forum don't read what they post ... some of it has been so ridiculous and irrelevant it's actually comical. A good friend and perhaps the most vocal told me he doesn't bother to read the posts the pro farmers put up; said he hasn't the time :o
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GordJ, you will find most of the anti's on this forum don't read what they post ... some of it has been so ridiculous and irrelevant it's actually comical. A good friend and perhaps the most vocal told me he doesn't bother to read the posts the pro farmers put up; said he hasn't the time :o
I am still trying to decide what my opinion is about farms and it is about as logical as deciding between Protestant and Catholic or Sunni and Shia when you start reading. It is even more confusing to me because I first started to look at the issue when the "green" organizations were touting farms as a boon to wild fish because they would lessen pressure on wild stocks. Both sides, obviously, slant any information but I really have a problem with Morton's methods and persona so I tend to look at her "data" with a suspicious eye. Like any good religion she has followers who blindly go forth and spout her gospel and this causes me to investigate where the post originated and stuff like that.
I suppose that is not a bad thing and we should probably all look into issues ourselves and take some of the power away from special interest groups like Morton and the Farms and the media and give it to ourselves.
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Oh so you don't do any due diligence at all, just copy and paste everything you read on the internet? That is exactly the problem I have with evangelicals, they just keep repeating what they are told by their leaders.
http://stopmasturbationnow.org/trending/california-forest-fire-caused-by-masturbation-accident/ (http://stopmasturbationnow.org/trending/california-forest-fire-caused-by-masturbation-accident/)
I think you might be catching on Gord - because that describes Bawb's postings to a T. His master's bleatings Propaganda put forth,written, edited and published as gospel by the feedlots Did you read in my earlier posts about the moonscape around Saddle Island where family and friends that I grew up with can't fish any more? No lobster caught near there any more and that didn't start until Cooke put in a feedlot. You can dispute that, but you'd be dead wrong, and that's a simple fact. Coincidence I guess. Or about the devastation the same companies that set up shop here have inflicted on other countries? Of course not. It puts a pin in the feedlot balloon.
Marine Harvest for example.......( Your old buddy Don is quoted here Dave ;))
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/may/10/marine-harvest-salmon-farm-scottish-loch
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Doc Morton in the news, the comic section hehe
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farming-blogs-and-social-media-items-we-found-interest-week
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http://www.seafoodwatch.org/cr/SeafoodWatch/web/sfw_factsheet.aspx?gid=49
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Looks like if it is not caught, grown or farmed by the US, you will find it on the do not eat list. :)
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Latest about "self proclaimed biologist Morton".
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=107158
Virus not so new after all.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/%E2%80%98novel%E2%80%99-virus-not-so-novel-after-presence-found-steelhead-samples-1977
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http://thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/09/SeaLiceSalmon/
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I am seeing lots of lice on the the salmon I am catching out in open water, and there is lots of salmon this returning this year again. I blame those fish farms for the great time I am having. :)
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http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/fish_farms/pdfs/NAFTA_Commission_Notification.pdf
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I think a whole fish farm is a "deleterious substance" according to that article. ;)
...."14. The Submitters state that
[c]onfined salmon [in aquaculture operations] are fed concentrated fish feed,
commonly soaked in chemical treatments and antibiotics designed to remedy
parasite infestations (such as sea lice) and bacterial infections. Any unconsumed
feed, excrement, pesticides and antibiotics pass through the pens and enter the
surrounding environment. Decapod crustaceans such as crabs, lobsters, prawns
and shrimp, which are important scavengers in wild salmon habitat, tend to be
drawn to accumulate[d] discharge on the seabed beneath finfish aquaculture
operations.23"
sounds delicious
....."Submission cites a scientific article reporting that “some
sources of fish feed have been found to contain high levels of mercury.”24 The same scientific
article explains that fish farms produce “zones of anoxic sediment, a condition that promotes
conversion of inorganic mercury into the biaccumulative organometallic form
methylmercury,”25 and goes on to describe additional environmental effects. The same article
also states that “Elevated mercury concentrations in rockfish prey near net-pen salmon farms
likely result from a combination of mercury loading (in waste feed and fish feces26) and
mobilization of native and added mercury in sediment due to farm-induced anoxia.”27
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/270968011.html?mobile=true
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and a comment on the post of yours bob.... possibly from a lady who knows what she's talking about? i'm not prepared to read another few hundred pages of articles so that I can post something of my "own" in this thread.
Angela Koch · Top Commenter · ABC
This reminds me of the Mt Polley tailings disaster where the water is almost good enough to drink...and when those with vested interests do this study, well the fish are almost good enough to eat...mind you, if Gary Marty did this study with his homemade easy bake oven testing equipment, well then, it must be true....So I take it we should just overlook the Norwegian strain in BC's PRV?....and how convenient to find out that PRV causes HSMI everywhere else in the world except for Canada,....aren't we just so freaking lucky!
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Hmmmm...............
http://www.gofundme.com/salmon-farms-exposed (http://www.gofundme.com/salmon-farms-exposed)
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Hmmmm...............
http://www.gofundme.com/salmon-farms-exposed (http://www.gofundme.com/salmon-farms-exposed)
ahhhh geez louise.... definitely more than a hmmmmmm
"So enough is enough! I believe everyone and their friends who know about this fishy industry will boycott them until they're out of the waters, and here's where I need your help..."
well I guess her commercial is about 10 years away.
just an opinion, but I feel that trying to associate complete blame on farms does nothing but create confrontation, with some of it very personal....working together to create profitability in land based farms would be a better use of energy and passion it seems. there are some legitimate uncertanties like virus mutation that really could cause some sort of event. cows, chickens and pigs have all had 'events' in the last 20 years that i'm sure people wouldn't have anticipated and their effects were wide spread.
ah well I digress, a fools paradise where profitability and environmental stewardship go hand in hand.
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Somewhat dated but good info
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15230320
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/10/11/signs-of-a-crank-recognizing-pseudoscience/
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http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/
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http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/timeline_atlantics.pdf
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http://www.aida-americas.org/en/project/hazardsoffishfarms?gclid=CK6iwdDwocACFSyCMgodGjgAFA
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That sure sounds scary when you do not have any idea how it is done in BC and the US :)
http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/
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http://communications.uvic.ca/releases/tip.php?date=19122013
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I would think the same presumption would be applied to the wild procesing and all the sport fishing docks where I clean my fish :)
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Looks great despite some peoples predictions :)
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10131809
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/film-reviews-are-in-a-fishy-tale/
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http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10145261
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http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/blue_planet/problems/aquaculture/
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/challenges-sockeye-management
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Many more sockeye coming down the coast, means less dirty fish being sold. Get over it bawb or get some help getting over it. Maybe get a group rate and a link to that for your fav web sites. Maybe even go out and buy one of those sockeye. Very good prices on them right off the boat for the next while.
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If it was a sustainable fishery, salmon farming would not be needed in Alaska, BC and Washington TB. You need to get over it. I know I did. No need for me to buy when the fishing is so good around the Island right now and has been for many years. Darn fish farms anyways hehe. :)
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http://www.purezing.com/living/food_articles/living_articles_7salmon.htm
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Looks like our wild salmon have proven Doc Morton wrong once again this year. On a second note, what has she ever got right? :)
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=76&article_id=107632
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http://wcel.org/resources/environmental-law-alert/widening-even-further-hole-federal-fish-protection-canada%E2%80%99s-propos
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Wandering hippies fear factor. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/mount-polley-mystery-easily-solved-with-one-mouse-click/
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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653501001369
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http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6790/abs/4051017a0.html
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Sorry Bawb, I've been slipping lately. I'll try harder. :o
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1095-8649.1994.tb01285.x/abstract
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This should keep you busy!
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2013-0558#.VA_TZBY7XIQ
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If it was a sustainable fishery, salmon farming would not be needed in Alaska, BC and Washington TB. You need to get over it. I know I did. No need for me to buy when the fishing is so good around the Island right now and has been for many years. Darn fish farms anyways hehe. :)
If our own wild fishery wasnt overfished and managed better it could provide a better resource for fishermen and consumers alike.
Most of the production and profits from these farms dont stay in Canada anyway.
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I don't hear any complaining from the sport fishing industry. Looks to me that we have taken over and are now a bigger resource than the wild fishery.
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Looks like another great year for Alaska farmed salmon. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/pink-salmon-the-muffin-stumps-of-the-pacific-northwest/
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Hoping that was sarcasm .
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I don't hear any complaining from the sport fishing industry. Looks to me that we have taken over and are now a bigger resource than the wild fishery.
At least your finally admitting to being an organ and working for the feedlots Bawb.
Now a quick quiz for you. How many times as I foil your posts have I quoted Ms. Morton? Whats that? None you say? Here's a challenge for you- go and find some info that isn't from the feedlot back patting crew polishing their own turds. I'm betting you can't do that on orders from your masters........
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Read my post how you like NB. I said that our sport fishing industry has taken over the wild fishery. :)
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Meanwhile, you skipped over this part ;D
Now a quick quiz for you. How many times as I foil your posts have I quoted Ms. Morton? Whats that? None you say? Here's a challenge for you- go and find some info that isn't from the feedlot back patting crew polishing their own turds. I'm betting you can't do that on orders from your masters........ :o ;) ;D
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Look back and find where I said you did :)
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Looks like another great year for Alaska farmed salmon. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/pink-salmon-the-muffin-stumps-of-the-pacific-northwest/
just propaganda by the usually folks Bawb !
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just propaganda by the usually folks Bawb !
Please feel free to prove your feelings. :)
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Please feel free to prove your feelings. :)
That might be hard to do, what with the returns of Fraser pinks last year, this years pink and chinook returns to VI, and of course 2014 Fraser sockeye numbers :D
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just propaganda by the usual turd polishers Bawb !
So Bawb do you prefer a random orbit polisher or the varible speed buffer to make that brown really stand out and gleam? Do you wet sand first and go from 1200 to a 2000 grit finishing polish? Do you apply carnuba as a finishing coat? ;D ;) ;D
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So Bawb do you prefer a random orbit polisher or the varible speed buffer to make that brown really stand out and gleam? Do you wet sand first and go from 1200 to a 2000 grit finishing polish? Do you apply carnuba as a finishing coat? ;D ;) ;D
Hey, it is not my fault all the great numbers of salmon returning to the BC coast are making your argument redundant. You seem to be stuck on speculation Nova. It realy is ok to take a bite of that Humble Pie, its not too bad at all. LOL. :)
http://www.surreyleader.com/news/275007951.html?mobile=true
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Dr. Patrick Moore - Higher Ground by ResourceWorks.com
Are you an anti-everything?
http://youtu.be/TlgY3tQSXNg
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Thanks for that Bob 8)
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not really a farm related question... more history related.
it's about pink salmon.... i'm well into my 30's and I do not recall an abundance of pink salmon when I was fishing in the 90's. It was actually pretty uncommon to catch one in the rivers I fished up until probably 1998. there is no odd year wierdness up north either.
the last 10 years or so, there appears to have been a population explosion. Also a noticeable decrease in chum salmon numbers, and a decrease in chinook size. I have no solid morton backed science numbers other than first hand experience. ;)
so for you baby boomers, were there ever large numbers of pinks showing up in the lower mainland flows 'back in the day'?
and if you felt that there is an increase in abundance, what do you think is contributing to it?
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Very good question Banx. I often wonder if Alaska farmed salmon that are released are invading our rivers. This site gave me some thing to think about.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf
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if these are the pinks and chum that are coming to our rivers to spawn,wouldnt they have to be native to the river so they knew where to return.?
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Dr. Patrick Moore - Higher Ground by ResourceWorks.com
Are you an anti-everything?
http://youtu.be/TlgY3tQSXNg
Patrick Moore is and was a sellout. I met and knew him in the 70's when I was a volunteer at Greenpeace. He's abused that past with little or no shame. Have a nice read about your hero here Bawb. Just another round of baloney. Have a little read about this nit below.
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/media-center/news-releases/greenpeace-statement-on-patric/
Patrick Moore often misrepresents himself in the media as an environmental “expert” or even an “environmentalist,” while offering anti-environmental opinions on a wide range of issues and taking a distinctly anti-environmental stance. He also exploits long-gone ties with Greenpeace to sell himself as a speaker and pro-corporate spokesperson, usually taking positions that Greenpeace opposes.
While it is true that Patrick Moore was a member of Greenpeace in the 1970s, in 1986 he abruptly turned his back on the very issues he once passionately defended. He claims he "saw the light" but what Moore really saw was an opportunity for financial gain. Since then he has gone from defender of the planet to a paid representative of corporate polluters.
Patrick Moore promotes such anti-environmental positions as clearcut logging, nuclear power, farmed salmon, PVC (vinyl) production, genetically engineered crops, and mining. Clients for his consulting services are a veritable Who's Who of companies that Greenpeace has exposed for environmental misdeeds, including Monsanto, Weyerhaeuser, and BHP Minerals.
Moore's claims run from the exaggerated to the outrageous to the downright false, including that "clear-cutting is good for forests" and Three Mile Island was actually "a success story" because the radiation from the partially melted core was contained. That is akin to saying "my car crash was a success because I only cracked my skull and didn't die."
By exploiting his former ties to Greenpeace, Moore portrays himself as a prodigal son who has seen the error of his ways. Unfortunately, the media - especially conservative media - give him a platform for his views, and often do so without mentioning the fact that he is a paid spokesperson for polluting companies.
The following provides a brief overview of Patrick Moore's positions and his history of working for corporate polluters.
TRUTH V. FICTION ON PATRICK MOORE:
Patrick Moore claims he is an environmentalist and represents an independent scientific perspective on forest issues.
TRUTH: Moore was paid by the British Columbia Forest Alliance, an industry-front group set up by the public relations firm Burson-Marsteller (the same PR firm that represented Exxon after the Valdez oil spill and Union Carbide after the Bhopal chemical disaster). The BC Forest Alliance is funded primarily by the logging industry. He also has ties to other corporations including Monsanto and Weyerhaeuser.
According to Moore, logging is good for forests causing reforestation, not deforestation.
TRUTH: Webster's Dictionary defines deforestation as "the action or process of clearing of forests." The argument advanced by forest industry spin-doctors that clear-cutting "causes reforestation, not deforestation" is without basis in fact. It is like arguing that having a heart attack improves your health because of the medical treatment you receive afterwards.
According to Moore: "Forward-thinking environmentalists and scientists have made clear, technology has now progressed to the point where the activist fear mongering about the safety of nuclear energy bears no resemblance to reality."
TRUTH:
- The Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards (ACRS) concluded years ago that the lack of containment on Department of Energy (DOE) sponsored advanced nuclear reactor designs constituted a "major safety trade-off."
- Patrick Moore has recently begun touting the "safety" of nuclear energy at the behest of the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI), which is being bankrolled by the nuclear industry to promote nuclear energy as clean and safe energy. The public relations firm Hill & Knowlton has been hired to roll out a multi-million dollar campaign to repackage Moore's propaganda to convince congressional leaders of public support for the building of new nuclear plants.
Hill and Knowlton are most well known for their public relations work defending the tobacco industry. The PR firm has also worked for industry interests to stall action to protect the ozone layer by executing "a carefully designed campaign attacking the science behind the ozone depletion and delaying government action for two years. This was enough time for DuPont to bring new, ozone-friendly chemicals to market." Austin American Statesman, Cox News Service Jeff Nesmith June 26, 2005 http://www.statesman.com/search/content/insight/stories/06/26doubt.html
More information on Hill and Knowlton can be found at:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Hill_%26_Knowlton
Moore's recent call that the U.S. should generate 60 percent of U.S. electricity from nuclear power is ludicrous. These plants are acknowledged by the federal government's own National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States - commonly referred to as the 9/11 Commission - as terrorist targets. An accident or terrorist attack at a nuclear plant could result in thousands of near-term deaths from radiation exposure and hundreds of thousands of long-term deaths from cancer among individuals within only fifty miles of a nuclear plant.
His proposal not only fails to address the risk posed to the American public by our existing plants, but also fails to address the urgent issue of global warming. According to Dr. Bill Keepin, a physicist and energy consultant in the U.S., "given business-as-usual growth in energy demand, it appears that even an infeasibly massive global nuclear power programme could not reduce future emissions of carbon dioxide. To displace coal alone would require the construction of a new nuclear plant every two or three days for nearly four decades…in the United States, each dollar invested in efficiency displaces nearly seven times more carbon than a dollar invested in new nuclear power."
According to Moore, "Three Mile Island was actually a success story in that the radiation from the partially melted core was contained."
TRUTH:
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission estimates that 10 million curies of radiation were released into the environment by the Three Mile Island Meltdown. Expert witnesses in the TMI law suits estimated that 150 million curies escaped, because the containment at Three Mile Island was not leak tight and the NRC ignored many of the potential escape routes for the radiation.
VVPR info: Jane Kochersperger, 202-319-2493
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if these are the pinks and chum that are coming to our rivers to spawn,wouldnt they have to be native to the river so they knew where to return.?
I would think that salmon repopulating rivers after ice ages would suggest that not all salmon return to their native river. Dave or Steve?
Found this one :)
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/publications/uww-msm/articles/pacificsalmon-saumonpacifique-eng.htm
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Pink salmon tend to stray more often than other salmon so I suppose it is possible Alaskan pinks could spawn in BC rivers ... I would be more concerned with the sheer numbers of released hatchery pink fry competing for food with wild salmonids.
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Bob that link you posted just talks about the difference between 'ranching' in alaska, and 'farming' here..... though based on the several propaganda sites I visited to research ranching... most of what we do here could be classified as ranching as well. releasing smolts into the wild with the hope of them returning to be caught. which is from your positiveaquaharvestingalliance.com
What I did find wrong, as a matter of opinion of course, is that the authors try to say that ranching is better than farming. It does use less feed per ton. But there are far more negatives associated with farms compared to ranching. The largest being the effect on the environment.
If these 'ranched' fish come back to their natal streams and are not caught/harvested then they are a + on the environment. They will contribute to the ecosystem via their death. farmed salmon will never be a + on the environment and will only benefit the company who owns them.
now back to the original question.... as you posted earlier saying the sportfishing on the island is amazing, were you catching a lot of pinks in the 70's 80's and 90's? and if not, why do you think your catching more now?
you don't need to quote anyone Bob, I accept your opinion regardless of your feelings.
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I would think that salmon repopulating rivers after ice ages would suggest that not all salmon return to their native river. Dave or Steve?
Found this one :)
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/publications/uww-msm/articles/pacificsalmon-saumonpacifique-eng.htm
I was helping tag coho last year on the island....
A number of the coho I tagged in the Englishman (quite a ways up too ~15-20 km), ended up in rivers like the Chase or Millstone. We were also catching a tonne of hatchery fish, which were most likely Little Q or Big Q strays.
In short, the fish don't need to be native to the river to go up it. They will simply join a school and head up the river. Some may go down like the ones I tagged that ended up 50+ km away, but I'm sure closer to spawning a bunch stay.
Another food for thought.... if you go look at a lot of rivers with "record returns," I'd say at the mouth of each river there is a slough of 100,000 pinks sitting there, not really doing anything other than colouring up. I'd say you can't use the low water excuse (personally), just because in those same rivers, fresh coho are shooting past the pinks right up into the system (plus a number of the pinks are already in as well). Maybe the pinks are just lost and can't bounce around any more due to their condition, so they'll just spawn in the estuaries.
Can\t wait to see what happens with coho fishing this year.. I have a feeling it'll be a treat ;D
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http://www.biv.com/article/2012/8/recalculating-the-costs-and-consequences-of-fish-f/
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Bawb? Is this you? ;D :o ;) ;D
http://www.watershedsentinel.ca/content/enbridges-pr-firm-hill-and-knowlton-minister-environment-connection
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http://communications.uvic.ca/releases/release.php?display=release&id=1176
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http://www.salmonguy.org/?tag=salmon-farming
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2011/05/wild-vs-farmed-a-false-choice.html
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http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014/03/fish-faceoff-wild-salmon-vs-farmed-salmon/
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Geuss that even blows the grow on land thinking out of the water Nova. Why would they not compare a farmed atlantic to a wild atlantic? Beef,,,Buffalo, whats the differance kind thinking. You of all people should be able to read that as poopaganda science Nova LOL. Just buy American. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2011/05/wild-vs-farmed-a-false-choice.html
Btw, do we realy know what is in "Wild" fish feed? :)
http://blogfishx.blogspot.ca/2007/05/wild-salmon-fed-melamine-contaminated.html?m=1
But on the bright side in Washington.
http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/4321/fda-clears-fish-of-melamine-in-washington-state
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Debunking Doc Morton. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/09/16/whats-better-than-debunking-morton-myths-seeing-a-real-salmon-scientist-get-international-recognition/
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Debunking Doc Morton. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/09/16/whats-better-than-debunking-morton-myths-seeing-a-real-salmon-scientist-get-international-recognition/
There ya go again with self aggrandizing propaganda put forth by your feedlot lords. :o salmonfarmnonsenseandbaloney.com
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There ya go again with self aggrandizing propaganda put forth by your feedlot lords. :o salmonfarmnonsenseandbaloney.com
You can debunk them simply by telling me what Doc Morton has got right during her anti fish farm crusade Nova. :) not going to hold my breath for that reply hehe.
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http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/fraser-river-sockeye-salmon-run-size-uncertain-but-great/article20635137/?service=mobile
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You can debunk them simply by telling me what Doc Morton has got right during her anti fish farm crusade Nova. :) not going to hold my breath for that reply hehe.
You seem to have an unhealthy obsession and a weird fascination with Ms. Morton. Really unhealthy and really weird.
You see Bawb, I've posted links from many other sources, so you wouldn't have that popgun to fire. Note there's university studies, doctor's reports, even prominent business publications - they've all clued in to the feedlot flim-flam backed by the chorus of sycophants. Like the constant self serving salmonfarmnonsense.com or the other glut of propaganda put forth by your masters. And since I've brought up your masters, please point out another jurisdiction where these floating fester pots have an unblemished record- Norway? Scotland? Surely the South America\n operations have a resounding ecological and safety record? No, you say? They're the same buffoons operating here, donating large sums of money to the political flavour of the day to curry favour.
http://www.coibc.ca/down/opinion_hagen_2003.pdf
http://thetyee.ca/News/2005/05/12/FishFarmDocumentsShowPoliticsTrumpScience/
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That was a lot of talk from some one that seems to not be able to tell the differance between Atlantic and Pacific Salmon. :)
http://www.thesalmons.org/lynn/fishes.html
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That was a lot of talk from some one that seems to not be able to tell the differance between Atlantic and Pacific Salmon. :)
http://www.thesalmons.org/lynn/fishes.html
A little early for libations Bawb.... :o ::) ;)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/Shill-Web_0_zpsbe720d15.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/Shill-Web_0_zpsbe720d15.gif.html)
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WOW, You sure put a lot of thought into that one Nova. Good work son lol. :)
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Bob that link you posted just talks about the difference between 'ranching' in alaska, and 'farming' here..... though based on the several propaganda sites I visited to research ranching... most of what we do here could be classified as ranching as well. releasing smolts into the wild with the hope of them returning to be caught. which is from your positiveaquaharvestingalliance.com
What I did find wrong, as a matter of opinion of course, is that the authors try to say that ranching is better than farming. It does use less feed per ton. But there are far more negatives associated with farms compared to ranching. The largest being the effect on the environment.
If these 'ranched' fish come back to their natal streams and are not caught/harvested then they are a + on the environment. They will contribute to the ecosystem via their death. farmed salmon will never be a + on the environment and will only benefit the company who owns them.
now back to the original question.... as you posted earlier saying the sportfishing on the island is amazing, were you catching a lot of pinks in the 70's 80's and 90's? and if not, why do you think your catching more now?
you don't need to quote anyone Bob, I accept your opinion regardless of your feelings.
Yes you may be right on your points Banx. We also should look at how much those billions of ranched salmon eat in the wild when they are released from their net pens. They would also be competing with the wild. Their return btw is around 10% from what I have read meaning a lot of waisted feed from the start where farmed salmon has around a 90% return. I feel farmed has taken the consumer bite out of our wild and leaves more for the sport and more to spawn. We may not like it, but the only thing I have seen work to bring low populations back is to simply leave them alone for a few years. It has worked from Washington up to Alaska. Add a bit of enhancement into that pot :)
Oh btw, cant say as I have ever caught much for pinks. Guess it may be from targeting coho and springs.
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WOW, You sure put a lot of thought into that one Nova. Good work son lol. :)
Yes Sir Captain Bawb - About as much thought as a parrot repeating what his masters tell him to from the same old and tired baloney factories;) Here's a challenge you may have to get managerial approval for - try finding some (dis)information from something other than those old dogs you drag out.Or aren't you allowed independent information sources from the command ship?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/pirate-parrot-23490778_zps8ff62051.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/pirate-parrot-23490778_zps8ff62051.jpg.html)
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Yes Sir Captain Bawb - About as much thought as a parrot repeating what his masters tell him to from the same old and tired baloney factories;) Here's a challenge you may have to get managerial approval for - try finding some (dis)information from something other than those old dogs you drag out.Or aren't you allowed independent information sources from the command ship?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/pirate-parrot-23490778_zps8ff62051.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/pirate-parrot-23490778_zps8ff62051.jpg.html)
So happy you can talk about yourself like that Nova. Your work has begun. :)
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"Oh btw, cant say as I have ever caught much for pinks"
Can't say you what?
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"Oh btw, cant say as I have ever caught much for pinks"
Can't say you what?
Oh look,, the never answer a question guy asked a question. Try taking the blindfold off and read my post fully TB hehe. :)
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Might check this out. :)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/bc-salmon-farmers-grow-sustainability-efforts-meet-demand
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Yes you may be right on your points Banx. We also should look at how much those billions of ranched salmon eat in the wild when they are released from their net pens. They would also be competing with the wild. Their return btw is around 10% from what I have read meaning a lot of waisted feed from the start where farmed salmon has around a 90% return. I feel farmed has taken the consumer bite out of our wild and leaves more for the sport and more to spawn. We may not like it, but the only thing I have seen work to bring low populations back is to simply leave them alone for a few years. It has worked from Washington up to Alaska. Add a bit of enhancement into that pot :)
Oh btw, cant say as I have ever caught much for pinks. Guess it may be from targeting coho and springs.
well this is just opinion of course, but I kind of disagree that farmed/ranched fish compete with wild species for food out in the ocean. yes they are out there eating food for sure. But to say that they are over competing the wilds is kind of silly. Wild fish are stronger, that is a fact. They would also be more wiley when out in the chuck as compared to some hatchery fish who's been handed everything since the day it's born.
I think, opinion only of course, that these hatchery/ranched fish would be easier pickings for predators than the wilds who have already run a gauntlet since emerging from an egg. Thus off setting the destruction to wild stocks that have already occurred. As mentioned earlier, these ranched fish will return nutrients to their natal streams when they return. Which feed insects, trout, mammals, birds, the trees....everything. All farmed salmon does to the environment is give it a beating.
what would you rather drop in the ocean? live small fish, or antibiotics and crap?
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Here's a piece from your chum(bucket) and fellow shill-for-hire Patrick Moore.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/09/23/patrick-moore-link-between-climate-and-co2-is-far-from-clear/
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Here's a piece from your chum(bucket) and fellow shill-for-hire Patrick Moore.
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/09/23/patrick-moore-link-between-climate-and-co2-is-far-from-clear/
Thanks Nova. That was a good read. :)
"If we wish to preserve natural biodiversity, wildlife, and human well-being, we should simultaneously plan for both warming and cooling, recognizing that cooling would be the most damaging of the two trends."
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You are going to like this one Nova. :)
http://youtu.be/WLhilIwK2YQ
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/denial_quote_zps6c96eea5.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/denial_quote_zps6c96eea5.jpg.html)
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/denial_quote_zps6c96eea5.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/denial_quote_zps6c96eea5.jpg.html)
You just reminded me of some one having the three monkey syndrome lol. I thank you Nova, for reminding me why I left your side of the fence. I felt I was to listen and not to ask questions. When I did, and still do ask a question, there is no answer from your side. At least Banx is willing to chat. :)
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I'm sorry Bawb - what was the question?
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I'm sorry Bawb - what was the question?
Take the blinders off Nova. I gave you a compliment. As far as the questions, scroll up. I think you do not need to much of your time if you actually take the time to read what you do not want to be asked. Or is it, you are not given the answers from your spongers? For your ease, why test Atlantic's with Pacific's? And for the heck of it, why not put farmed Alaskan salmon and Alaska wild in the cocktail mix? Why not a farmed Atlantic with a wild Atlantic? Or a Wild Pacific salmon with a farmed Pacific salmon? Looks to me that your post would not have near the "catastrophic" message that they wanted us to "obediently" listen to. As I said before, you "supposedly" being from the east coast and from a "supposedly fishing background" should know the difference between the Atlantic's and Pacific's. Still not holding my breath for an answer btw. :)
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Hey Banx, I thought you might find this interesting. Pro's and con's I guess.
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/hatchery-fish-are-not-wild/
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Sounds like a person with a block of SLICE on her back Bawb. Couldn't find some real information on the subject?
About
I am a firm supporter of resource based industries on and around Vancouver Island. I have friends who work in these industries and I am tired of seeing the bullying done by these so called “peaceful protesters.” My main focus will be on the fish farm protesters because they are very active in my community.
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Sounds like a person with a block of SLICE on her back Bawb. Couldn't find some real information on the subject?
About
I am a firm supporter of resource based industries on and around Vancouver Island. I have friends who work in these industries and I am tired of seeing the bullying done by these so called “peaceful protesters.” My main focus will be on the fish farm protesters because they are very active in my community.
Not sure what is on your back TB. A small box perhaps? It really makes me wonder why you seem to have no problem with the US doing the same thing as what happens in BC. :)
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"Not sure what is on your back TB. A small box perhaps?"
A small box? A few hairs that's for sure but a small box? Just saying the person you quoted from has a vested interest in a particular way of salmon farming and is not likely to be unbiased with information. Also seems to have a paranoia about perceived threats by “peaceful protesters.”
Much like your segueing into US fishfarming practices and wondering, it may not matter really. I don't worry much about what the US does. You may worry because it may affect your livelihood. That's fair I guess. Maybe start a mudshark farm to diversify.
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"Not sure what is on your back TB. A small box perhaps?"
A small box? A few hairs that's for sure but a small box? Just saying the person you quoted from has a vested interest in a particular way of salmon farming and is not likely to be unbiased with information. Also seems to have a paranoia about perceived threats by “peaceful protesters.”
Much like your segueing into US fishfarming practices and wondering, it may not matter really. I don't worry much about what the US does. You may worry because it may affect your livelihood. That's fair I guess. Maybe start a mudshark farm to diversify.
I guess my box must be a lot bigger than yours. I consider Alaska and Washington to be in our back yard. So yes, I do wonder why we do not hear about their farming practices, only what we do in BC. American protectionism at its best. American born Doc Morton is all over that from what I see these days. :)
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Hey Banx, I thought you might find this interesting. Pro's and con's I guess.
http://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/hatchery-fish-are-not-wild/
thanks.... yes there is a concern of wilds and hatchery fish mixing genes and maybe not making the 'wild' fish as pure. that's a definite concern.(for some people).......... your asking to pick the lesser of two evils. and for me it will always be hatchery supported stocks over farms.
salmon; wild or hatchery, always benefit the environment in their death. farms won't be contributing in a positive way ever. even economically, I think sportfishing employs and contributes more than farms to our economy.... especially with distributing the wealth around and not for a few select stake holders like farms.
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thanks.... yes there is a concern of wilds and hatchery fish mixing genes and maybe not making the 'wild' fish as pure. that's a definite concern.(for some people).......... your asking to pick the lesser of two evils. and for me it will always be hatchery supported stocks over farms.
salmon; wild or hatchery, always benefit the environment in their death. farms won't be contributing in a positive way ever. even economically, I think sportfishing employs and contributes more than farms to our economy.... especially with distributing the wealth around and not for a few select stake holders like farms.
I guess I can agree with you on most of what you say Banx. But you must also agree that, as big as the sport fishing industry is, we sport fishers kill a lot of wild and hatchery salmon for profit that would have put nutrients in the rivers and streams, fed the bears, eagles and trees, where I can not find proof of salmon farmers killing them. Just myths, fables, hearsay and lies. :) Btw, I know a few people in the sport fishing industry and they have second winter jobs because the industry is seasonal and does not sustain a year around income. Some head south and spend their hard earned money out of Canada and in a warmer climate. Seems to me that salmon farming is year around work in Canada and most of all in coastal communities that need and do benefit from it.
Now I have to ask you Banx, just why have we been pointing our fingers at salmon farmers when we have no direct Industrial competition with them? Also the same feed companies supply both hatcheries and farms giving them year around employment. Also I do not hear complaints from sport fishers about what is in the hatchery feed or the chemicals used to keep the smolts healthy that are released into the wild that we catch and eat. It looks like we have been misled with a double standard.
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" It looks like we (I) have been misled with a double standard."
I would change that to the singular bawb. Comparing feeding trout and salmon smolts in a land based hatchery to shovelling chemically laden feed to farmed salmon in the open pens is inane.
You should think about your posts a little more btw. Your starting to sound like what you think Morten sounds like.
What about the mudshark farm bawb? Give it a go yes / no.
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" It looks like we (I) have been misled with a double standard."
Comparing feeding trout and salmon smolts in a land based hatchery to shovelling chemically laden feed to farmed salmon in the open pens is inane.
Actually, fish farms in Canada and Washington State, all salmonid hatcheries throughout the Pacific Northwest, and salmon ranchers in Alaska use pretty much the same food formulations, produced from the same companies.
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What about the mudshark farm bawb? Give it a go yes / no.
If there was a market for Mudsharks, and I believe there is, why not? I have eaten these fish, freshly caught off Tofino. When prepared correctly they are delicious ;)
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Actually, fish farms in Canada and Washington State, all salmonid hatcheries throughout the Pacific Northwest, and salmon ranchers in Alaska use pretty much the same food formulations, produced from the same companies.
So your saying they're feeding SLICE and the same amount of food at the hatcheries as the fish farms do then. Hmmmmm
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Been down this road before....Whether you agree or not with the practice of fish farms in BC they do contribute economically to the province. Not just the direct employment but indirectly also in goods and services. I don't disagree with the larger economic impact of sportfishing, but I don't believe it should be one or the other nowadays or some competition between the two (i.e. one makes more money than the other). I think anything you can have diversity like that it's a good thing. Considering that the forest industry in many of these Vancouver Island communities is not like it used to it's not hard to understand that fish farming would be welcomed.
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Alaskan salmon farm (opps...."ranching" or "salmon enhancement programs") facilities utilize several chemicals and antibiotics to treat illness. They also have to deal with sea lice. Ranched fish are also fed fish pellets, are vaccinated and leave "poop" on the ocean floor.
It should be noted that the antibiotic use with salmon ranching, like fish farming in BC, is much, much lower than that used in terrestrial agriculture. But of course, all the chemicals used in land-based agriculture go into some magical pit - never to make their way into any watercourse like the Fraser River.
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But of course, all the chemicals used in land-based agriculture go into some magical pit - never to make their way into any watercourse like the Fraser River.
;)
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Magnitude and Trends in Abundance of Hatchery and Wild Pink Salmon, Chum Salmon, and Sockeye Salmon in the North Pacific Ocean
http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1577/C09-054.1
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I guess I can agree with you on most of what you say Banx. But you must also agree that, as big as the sport fishing industry is, we sport fishers kill a lot of wild and hatchery salmon for profit that would have put nutrients in the rivers and streams, fed the bears, eagles and trees, where I can not find proof of salmon farmers killing them. Just myths, fables, hearsay and lies. :) Btw, I know a few people in the sport fishing industry and they have second winter jobs because the industry is seasonal and does not sustain a year around income. Some head south and spend their hard earned money out of Canada and in a warmer climate. Seems to me that salmon farming is year around work in Canada and most of all in coastal communities that need and do benefit from it.
Now I have to ask you Banx, just why have we been pointing our fingers at salmon farmers when we have no direct Industrial competition with them? Also the same feed companies supply both hatcheries and farms giving them year around employment. Also I do not hear complaints from sport fishers about what is in the hatchery feed or the chemicals used to keep the smolts healthy that are released into the wild that we catch and eat. It looks like we have been misled with a double standard.
I'm sure there are farmers who sport fish, just like there are likely cattle ranchers who shoot moose and deer.
someones employment is a choice they make. there are also plenty of seasonal workers in other capacities. also, to say that steady employment is a justification for having a farm in an open ocean is ludicrous at best.
regarding feed, yes I feel your correct on a lot of it. But I'm sure, and this is only opinion but a wild or hatchery fish will look and taste better than its farmed counterpart. Just like cattle, pork, chicken etc. what they eat has a huge affect on flavour. having eaten pellets from birth to death it probably lacks the umani that a salmon would chasing down its prey in the ocean.
in the 8647 pages on this thread I have never blamed the farms for the demise of wild salmon. there are way worse things out there. way worse. But that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye to the practice. There has to be a better way. There HAS to be.
for me there are serious red flags in the practice of having a pen in the ocean. There are also serious unknowns that could have lasting implications. It's very unlikely that some sort of virus or pathogen can transfer from fish to humans. But there is a very strong possibility that there could be mutation and transfer to other species in the oceans.
swine flu, mad cow disease, avian flu, these are things that farmers never anticipated. to say that things like that could not happen on a salmon farm is living on a prayer for sure. We have been domesticating animals for centuries, land based ones, and other than the ancient chinese no other culture was doing any form of aquaculture. In the short time frame (relatively) that these types of farms have been in operation there have been serious serious problems.
and saying oh its BC were the best at it, nothing is going to happen..... let me remind you that these farms are not infallible, they are not god. you can not predict the future or insure the ocean.
Magnitude and Trends in Abundance of Hatchery and Wild Pink Salmon, Chum Salmon, and Sockeye Salmon in the North Pacific Ocean
http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1577/C09-054.1
thanks for the link. I did come across a selfie you took steve. I had to save it.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/hulk.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/hulk.jpg.html)
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Alaskan salmon farm (opps...."ranching" or "salmon enhancement programs") facilities utilize several chemicals and antibiotics to treat illness. They also have to deal with sea lice. Ranched fish are also fed fish pellets, are vaccinated and leave "poop" on the ocean floor.
Your making it sound like freighters are out in the ocean feeding the ranched salmon to match the amount of feed that net pens are using. ::) Wow.
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Your making it sound like freighters are out in the ocean feeding the ranched salmon to match the amount of feed that net pens are using. ::) Wow.
You just may be right TB. :)
"Ocean-ranched fish are hatched and reared in fresh water and then raised in ocean-based net pens where they are fed and protected from predation to gain size and strength before being released into the wild."
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/01/17/alaskan-ocean-ranching-damages-wild-salmon-fishery-b-c-conservation-groups-say/
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I am right about him making it sound like that, but fact is:
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/PDFs/hatcheries/2013_ak_hatcheries.pdf
http://www.wildakgirl.com/2013/04/why-did-alaskan-ban-fish-farms.html
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That is because they call it ranching, not farming. They still keep the salmon in open net pens for up to 12 months. That would mean to me that those net pens would not be empty for very long. Nice try though TB. :)
http://alaskasalmonranching.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/report.pdf
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looks like more government tax payer bail out $$$ on the way >:(
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/30/algae-kills-280k-farmed-fish
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That is because they call it ranching, not farming. They still keep the salmon in open net pens for up to 12 months. That would mean to me that those net pens would not be empty for very long. Nice try though TB. :)
http://alaskasalmonranching.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/report.pdf
More unauthorized content from your favorite site. Not even worth posting Bawb.
Let's face it Alaska banned salmon farming so that alone is enough for you and the dirty fish gang to target them (bully them in your other posters words).
Get the mudshark farm going Bawb and no one's going to complain. You could feed them all the dead fish from Marine Harvests latest killoff. A win win if I ever saw one.
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Your making it sound like freighters are out in the ocean feeding the ranched salmon to match the amount of feed that net pens are using. ::) Wow.
Well, you made the comparison to freighters - not me. I also never mentioned anything about "matching" the amount of feed. I notice that you don't like the inconvenient facts about salmon ranching in Alaska and have instead decided to shoot the messenger rather than critique the content. Interesting.
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I am right about him making it sound like that, but fact is:
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/PDFs/hatcheries/2013_ak_hatcheries.pdf
http://www.wildakgirl.com/2013/04/why-did-alaskan-ban-fish-farms.html
By posting these what is the point you are trying to make? As for Sara Pozonsky, she is passionate about her beliefs, but I don't believe she really understands what is going on in her own backyard. She obviously has not considered the study that I just posted previously or the concerns from folks in her own camp like Watershed Watch Salmon Society with regards to salmon ranching in Alaska or even in production from Japan or Russia.
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http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/30/algae-kills-280k-farmed-fish
These fish kills in BC caused by this algae are not uncommon if you look at the literature. Wild salmon can be impacted but are more able to avoid the bloom; whereas, farmed salmon are more restricted in a net pen and have a more difficult time avoiding it. BC fish farms are situated to hopefully avoid these toxic blooms but they do happen.
Alex Morton, an independent biologist, said climate change could trigger the blooms. But she also pointed to “industrial feedlot waste” from the farms themselves that attracts the algae.
“Wild fish in theory can go deeper (the bloom sticks to surface waters) but it’s hard to figure out what happens to wild fish,” she said.
Heterosigma akashiwo is found along the Pacific coast from Mexico to the northern BC coast. It was proposed as one of the factors in the decline of Fraser Sockeye at the Cohen Commission, but it's contribution to the overall decline is still relatively uncertain. It is true that it can kill wild fish; however, whether the impact is that great as to be a significant cause in the decline is not a slam dunk because wild fish have the ability to avoid these blooms. When it hits farmed fish here it doesn't appear to be a complete kill so in my opinion it can add to mortality like the other factors mentioned during the inquiry, but it's likely not the big smoking gun.
I do agree with Morton that it's hard to figure out what happens to the wild fish in this circumstance. It is possible that many wild morts that fall victim to toxic algae will sink to the bottom and be undetected unless water temperatures encourage them to come to the surface. This is similar to farmed salmon found dead at the bottom of net pens. However, when you factor in scavengers in the water column (benthic and pelagic); tides and ocean currents impacting the distribution of carcasses; and the fact that carcasses can remain on the bottom for indeterminate amount of time (making detection even more difficult) the availability of carcasses to make for a meaningful study into this could be a difficult task.
As for fish farms attracting these blooms there is little evidence to support that theory. As Ian Roberts notes, these blooms happen in areas without fish farms and the nutrient load may not be as significant as Morton believes. I posted this study from the Puget Sound before: http://www.whoi.edu/fileserver.do?id=39383&pt=2&p=29109
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Morton followers ignorant of toxic algae off our coast:
https://www.facebook.com/AlexandraMortonSalmonBiologist
Typical Morton....Promote ignorance by posting something inflammatory with little or no context and factual information.
Here is a really good one....
Thank God this got blocked in Washington state. The zoologists I was working with were against it totally
LOL...Yep...no fish farms in Washington State...lol. These toxic blooms happen in Washington State also. Donkey.
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Good one, banx. I laughed for awhile. That was funny and needed after a difficult past couple of days.
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I like the fact that Alaska recognized that fish farms were harming their environment and banned them. Instead shifting to Salmon ranching which only keeps the fish for 12 months , after that they can be regarded as wild as they do most of there growth on natural food in the ocean. It is a more natural way of growing fish rather than penning them up and feeding them pellets for there whole life .At least they(State of Alaska) are not turning a blind eye to all of this , which conveniently for our feds seems to happen with the fish farms here in bc.
I would bet that the majority of people here know about fish farms and are aware of their folly, only through individuals and organizations like Seachoice (education) are people going to make informed decisions .
I would also wager that majority of people do not know the extent of the fish farming and its effects on our environment and the govt involvement supporting it financially .If they did they would be shocked.Its up to all of us to keep the info flowing instead of trying to deflect,misinform and hide any kind problems affecting our environment.
As for the latest fish kill , this was an usually warm year and we did see several instances of algae blooms in waters around the bc coast.As mentioned the wild fish can avoid these blooms while the penned ones cannot.
The unfortunate part is the feds may bail them out when in fact most of the production and profits from this company,Marine harvest will not stay in Canada.
I applaud Sara Pozonsky for supporting the local industry of fishermen and there natural historic methods.
Im sure she has a quality product. She may even be buying ranched salmon , that have returning after several years of ocean growth and survival .
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One or the other? Or both? At least we can keep an eye on both. I have noticed over the years that I am not catching the size of salmon I use to. Too many fish on the range?
http://www.cbbulletin.com/399883.aspx
Looks like a lot of money heads home with seasonal workers in Alaska.
http://www.adn.com/article/feds-correct-ban-alaska-fish-processing-jobs-j-1-visa-program
The great "wild" bi-catch scam. Over loading the range and cutting the grass also.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/07/nation/na-alaska-fishing7
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Page 75. :)
http://www.npafc.org/new/publications/Documents/PDF%202012/1422(Canada).pdf
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Fun fact for some. Hehe
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/dooby-ous-activity-threatening-salmon/
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that's ridiculous....
you know though, if these farms were on land the waste water would be ideal for the marijuana. could help sick people and reduce the amount of waste. love to see marine harvest hire marc emery. could be a marriage made in the 'clouds'
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that's ridiculous....
you know though, if these farms were on land the waste water would be ideal for the marijuana. could help sick people and reduce the amount of waste. love to see marine harvest hire marc emery. could be a marriage made in the 'clouds'
That is pot for thought Banx. But I think the Chemicals and antibiotics used on land based fish farms/hatcheries would not go over well with pot smokers. Not to mention what "some people think" is in those nasty feed pellets. :)
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That is pot for thought Banx. But I think the Chemicals and antibiotics used on land based fish farms/hatcheries would not go over well with pot smokers. Not to mention what "some people think" is in those nasty feed pellets. :)
a big bag of doritos probably solve those problems.
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a big bag of doritos probably solve those problems.
Awesome Banx, thanks for the giggle hehe. Now why do I have a craving? :)
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For Bawb and the long winded one who thinks the net penners get fish feed like "manna from heaven" without affecting other fish stocks:
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/02/12/aquaculture-america-blog-us-aquaculture-farmers-missing-out-on-anti-trust-exemption-law/
Feb. 12, 9:21pm: Gulf of Mexico should replicate Alaska hatchery system, professor says
The Gulf of Mexico would benefit from taking a note from Alaska’s playbook, Daniel Benetti, professor and director of aquaculture at the University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, told Undercurrent.
“I consider the wild salmon fisheries in Alaska to be perhaps the most successful aquaculture initiative ever developed in the United States,” Benetti said, referring to Alaska’s robust hatchery program, which supplies the fishery with a significant chunk of the fish caught in the wild each year. “I think perhaps we should apply that concept to the Gulf [of Mexico].”
The Gulf could be restocked with red snapper, red drum and any and all other native species to that area.
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that's ridiculous....
you know though, if these farms were on land the waste water would be ideal for the marijuana. could help sick people and reduce the amount of waste. love to see marine harvest hire marc emery. could be a marriage made in the 'clouds'
Yeah, wouldn't that be sweet!! I'm a big fan of Emery ... perhaps he and Almo could work together on this, lol! Something tells me they have a few things in common :D
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For Bawb and the long winded one who thinks the net penners get fish feed like "manna from heaven" without affecting other fish stocks:
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/02/12/aquaculture-america-blog-us-aquaculture-farmers-missing-out-on-anti-trust-exemption-law/
Feb. 12, 9:21pm: Gulf of Mexico should replicate Alaska hatchery system, professor says
The Gulf of Mexico would benefit from taking a note from Alaska’s playbook, Daniel Benetti, professor and director of aquaculture at the University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, told Undercurrent.
“I consider the wild salmon fisheries in Alaska to be perhaps the most successful aquaculture initiative ever developed in the United States,” Benetti said, referring to Alaska’s robust hatchery program, which supplies the fishery with a significant chunk of the fish caught in the wild each year. “I think perhaps we should apply that concept to the Gulf [of Mexico].”
The Gulf could be restocked with red snapper, red drum and any and all other native species to that area.
Are you suggesting fish hatcheries are the answer to fish farms ??
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Just fanning the flames Dave. ;D
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Just fanning the flames Dave. ;D
Right .. Gadsden is away .. hope he gives you a grouse or two for your work here ;)
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Wow :). A compliment to salmon farmers from Doc Morton?
"Morton said that far from disproving the sea lice theory, rebounding wild salmon stocks can be credited to the changes to aquaculture practices that her research helped promote."
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=37&article_id=108209
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Wow :). A compliment to salmon farmers from Doc Morton?
"Morton said that far from disproving the sea lice theory, rebounding wild salmon stocks can be credited to the changes to aquaculture practices that her research helped promote."
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/index.php?page_id=37&article_id=108209
Bawb you may want to read that again.
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Bawb you may want to read that again.
Did you misplace your glasses TB? Or are you reading what you think you want to believe again? For a better idea of your backyard have a look at this vid TB. You just may learn something about the oceans that Doc Morton seems to not know. Starts to get good at 50 minutes. :)
http://youtu.be/38peWm76l-U
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Did you misplace your glasses TB? Or are you reading what you think you want to believe again? For a better idea of your backyard have a look at this vid TB. You just may learn something about the oceans that Doc Morton seems to not know. Starts to get good at 50 minutes. :)
http://youtu.be/38peWm76l-U
Maybe just try to summarize it for me. I don't have time for the vid.
thanks tb
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/02/12/aquaculture-america-blog-us-aquaculture-farmers-missing-out-on-anti-trust-exemption-law/
Feb. 12, 9:21pm: Gulf of Mexico should replicate Alaska hatchery system, professor says
The Gulf of Mexico would benefit from taking a note from Alaska’s playbook, Daniel Benetti, professor and director of aquaculture at the University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, told Undercurrent.
“I consider the wild salmon fisheries in Alaska to be perhaps the most successful aquaculture initiative ever developed in the United States,” Benetti said, referring to Alaska’s robust hatchery program, which supplies the fishery with a significant chunk of the fish caught in the wild each year. “I think perhaps we should apply that concept to the Gulf [of Mexico].”
The Gulf could be restocked with red snapper, red drum and any and all other native species to that area.
Wild? “Wild salmon fisheries”? Well, they are not wild. Using this logic means we should be calling hatchery salmon that are cultured in hatcheries wild salmon? Juvenile salmon produced by ranch operations are artificially propagated so how can he call them “wild”. I am not totally against hatcheries because there is a place for them and the folks here in this province do a good job with them, but I think it’s hilarious that fish farm opponents try to convince people that ranched salmon are wild. With ranching operations, selected adult salmon are stripped of eggs and milt with the fertilized eggs cultured in a hatchery. In the wild, do we go out in the river in our waders and start selecting which male salmon are going to mate with what female salmon or are both sexes allowed to pair-up naturally on the spawning grounds?
With ranching operations, the hatched juveniles are transferred from freshwater to saltwater net pens where they are continued to be cultured. During this time they are fed feed pellets which can include antibiotics when required. They can also be received vaccinations because they are now in an environment and at a size where they are even more vulnerable to pathogens. Diseases like IHN are threats and can result in ranched salmon having to be destroyed (Hmmm…where have we heard this before???); however, protocols are in place to help reduce the risk of these diseases (Hmmm…would salmon hatcheries and salmon farms have protocols for pathogen control also?). This fish husbandry helps give them a head start and improves their survival early in their life cycle. Once large enough to compete for resources with wild salmon, these cultured salmon are released into the ocean where they forage for food and hopefully return back to the area of their release. Ranched salmon make up close to 40% of the commercial catch in Alaska. These ranching operations (also in Japan and Russia) have been successful, but when you look at the recent literature now at what cost to wild salmon?
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Well they seem to be doing pretty good as in no regular mass infections and fish being trucked off to the dump like around here.
There stats on the good work:
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/PDFs/hatcheries/2013_ak_hatcheries.pdf
and again because they banned salmon farming it has upset some folk. But if they raised them in land based tanks the same folk would be upset......it is what it is.
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http://www.farmed-salmon-boycott.com/news/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon/
just filling in for Chris !
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The Russians and the Japanese have been doing pretty good also with salmon ranching, but at what cost? That's what the recent literature is saying - even those groups like Watershed Watch Salmon Society who are staunch critics of ocean net pen salmon farming are saying the same thing.
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http://www.farmed-salmon-boycott.com/news/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon/
just filling in for Chris !
Morton latest attempt at glory is another case of trying to connect the dots by stretching/bending the lines, but omitting other information in order to make the case. Her theory also neglects to mention the other factors that may be involved. So much for other things mentioned in the Cohen Final Report. Nope...it has to be the number of salmon farms, but as you can see below her data is incorrect. It's been a tough season for her campaign because the salmon are not doing what she thought they would do. The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf
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Morton latest attempt at glory is another case of trying to connect the dots by stretching/bending the lines, but omitting other information in order to make the case. Her theory also neglects to mention the other factors that may be involved. So much for other things mentioned in the Cohen Final Report. Nope...it has to be the number of salmon farms, but as you can see below her data is incorrect. It's been a tough season for her campaign because the salmon are not doing what she thought they would do. The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf
but steve thats just from the the farmers mouth ! back peddling as usual !
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http://www.farmed-salmon-boycott.com/news/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon/
just filling in for Chris !
Looks like Doc Morton does not know there are good and bad years for salmon returns. Making out like there will be good returns from now on is not the way to think. We knew there were odd and even year returns before net pens were thought of. Just taking a guess, next year will not be as good as this one. I hope it will be but if not, nature wins over our greed again.
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and how much is this gonna cost us over taxed tax payers ? no 1 ever answered that !
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/30/algae-kills-280k-farmed-fish
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The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf
Wonder how she will explain this one :)
Mothership imploding ...
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So your saying that the sea lice are more fatal to adult sockeye?
Or are the fish farms getting heavy handed with the SLICE on the lice?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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So your saying that the sea lice are more fatal to adult sockeye?
Or are the fish farms getting heavy handed with the SLICE on the lice?
Inquiring minds want to know.
think half of them were dead already TB with the major blum created by there feces !!!
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but steve thats just from the the farmers mouth ! back peddling as usual !
How can it be back peddling. It's publicly posted information that Morton got wrong. Are you saying that this map is wrong?
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/all_companies_2013-07_out_migration_sites.pdf
No mention of missing data from Ms Morton huh? Why do you think she omits those years? Why are other factors from Cohen are not mentioned?
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Looks like Doc Morton does not know there are good and bad years for salmon returns. Making out like there will be good returns from now on is not the way to think. We knew there were odd and even year returns before net pens were thought of. Just taking a guess, next year will not be as good as this one. I hope it will be but if not, nature wins over our greed again.
Are you talking about Pinks or Sockeye?
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How can it be back peddling. It's publicly posted information that Morton got wrong. Are you saying that this map is wrong?
http://www.salmonfarmers.org./sites/default/files/all_companies_2013-07_out_migration_sites.pdf
No mention of missing data from Ms Morton huh? Why do you think she omits those years? Why are other factors from Cohen are not mentioned?
but it's all put together by the farmers in there defense ! sorry...
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Are you talking about Pinks or Sockeye?
I was talking all salmon in general. And I ment it as I hope it will be as good as this year. :)
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but it's all put together by the farmers in there defense ! sorry...
So, because this map was put together by salmon farmers it is incorrect? Are you saying these sites don't exist?
http://www.al.gov.bc.ca/fisheries/cabinet/finfish_tenures.pdf
Did it ever occur to you that Ms Morton doesn't necessarily cite where the map on her blog comes from?
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I was talking all salmon in general. And I ment it as I hope it will be as good as this year. :)
Pinks are odd and even year. They have a short, fixed 2 year life span. With the Fraser, the odd year pinks are dominant whereas it can be the opposite in other places on the coast.
Most Fraser Sockeye return as 4 year olds.
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Pinks are odd and even year. They have a short, fixed 2 year life span. With the Fraser, the odd year pinks are dominant whereas it can be the opposite in other places on the coast.
Most Fraser Sockeye return as 4 year olds.
Thanks Steve. :). I screwed up. Just saying we cant depend on the same number of salmon coming back each year.
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Well they seem to be doing pretty good as in no regular mass infections and fish being trucked off to the dump like around here.
There stats on the good work:
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/PDFs/hatcheries/2013_ak_hatcheries.pdf
and again because they banned salmon farming it has upset some folk. But if they raised them in land based tanks the same folk would be upset......it is what it is.
Yup they seem to be doing well TB. ::)
"On the other hand, certain private nonprofit organizations focus on the pen-rearing of fish, and more traditional salmon raising techniques. Funds to support the nonprofit hatcheries come from two sources: an enhancement tax on fish caught by commercial fishermen, and a cost-recovery program that allows each operation to harvest and sell a certain number of fish each year."
http://www.jobmonkey.com/alaska/html/other_fisheries_jobs.html
http://www.adn.com/article/biologists-look-ocean-clues-alaska-king-salmon-collapse
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and how much is this gonna cost us over taxed tax payers ? no 1 ever answered that !
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/30/algae-kills-280k-farmed-fish
Not sure if it's going to cost taxpayers unless Marine Harvest was order to destroy fish. We are not talking about a disease like IHN or ISA.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/terrestrial-animals/diseases/compensation/eng/1313712524829/1313712773700
Salmon farmers in Canada received around 93 million over 3 years in compensation after being order to destroy farmed salmon - either infected farmed salmon or farmed salmon in close proximity to the infected ones. Did you know that other farmers (land agriculture) get compensated also under the same legislation? Taxpayers are paying for them also. Are you angry about that? What is provided in compensation to fish farmers is far less than what they would get if the fish survived to market. If farm critics don't like this compensation that's fine, but then eliminate it for other farmers also.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/09/30/more-complaining-about-salmon-aquaculture-compensation-is-unmerited/
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Not sure if it's going to cost taxpayers unless Marine Harvest was order to destroy fish. We are not talking about a disease like IHN or ISA.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/terrestrial-animals/diseases/compensation/eng/1313712524829/1313712773700
Salmon farmers in Canada received around 93 million over 3 years in compensation after being order to destroy farmed salmon - either infected farmed salmon or farmed salmon in close proximity to the infected ones.
And how many of those companies on the west coast are Canadaian owned? So our tax money should be used to prop up off shore companies that fail?
Did you know that other farmers (land agriculture) get compensated also under the same legislation? Taxpayers are paying for them also. Are you angry about that? What is provided in compensation to fish farmers is far less than what they would get if the fish survived to market. If farm critics don't like this compensation that's fine, but then eliminate it for other farmers also.
No business venture- NONE- should be getting our tax money to survive. I own a business and it's up to me to sink or swim.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/09/30/more-complaining-about-salmon-aquaculture-compensation-is-unmerited/
Getting posting points from Bawb?
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Getting posting points from Bawb?
Are you any better With your propaganda posting Nova? :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_ownership_of_companies_of_Canada
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Salmon farmers in Canada received around 93 million over 3 years in compensation after being order to destroy farmed salmon - either infected farmed salmon or farmed salmon in close proximity to the infected ones. Did you know that other farmers (land agriculture) get compensated also under the same legislation? Taxpayers are paying for them also. Are you angry about that? What is provided in compensation to fish farmers is far less than what they would get if the fish survived to market. If farm critics don't like this compensation that's fine, but then eliminate it for other farmers also.
Salmon farmers dont own the land.I assume they pay a lease on it but that is not the same .They are not responsible for it the same way a livestock farmer would be .I know that all waters are owned by gov"t but its not a fair comparison.If a land based farmer wants to move his business he has to sell the land he is on.
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Salmon farmers dont own the land.I assume they pay a lease on it but that is not the same .They are not responsible for it the same way a livestock farmer would be .I know that all waters are owned by gov"t but its not a fair comparison.If a land based farmer wants to move his business he has to sell the land he is on.
Many cattle farmers lease land for their cattle to occupy. I'm not sure what your getting at here SR. Compensation is for the loss. It has nothing to do with land.
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Getting posting points from Bawb?
Maybe you need some posting points yourself.....
We are not talking about companies that fail (i.e. bankruptcy) and are bailed out for it - we are talking about legislated compensation given to farmers (aquaculture, beef, chicken, pig, etc.) when they are ordered by the same legislation to destroy their livestock or fish due to an infectious disease.
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Salmon farmers dont own the land.I assume they pay a lease on it but that is not the same .They are not responsible for it the same way a livestock farmer would be .I know that all waters are owned by gov"t but its not a fair comparison.If a land based farmer wants to move his business he has to sell the land he is on.
I agree with aqua, not sure where you are coming from as many farmers lease land to other farmers to use. Farmers don't have to sell the land if they want to move. That means that some farmers don't own the land they raise their crops or livestock on - someone else does. My late father-in-law was a farmer and leased out land to others. Does the cattle rancher that has his cattle grazing on Crown Land (most land in BC is Crown Land) own that land? The fact is that grazing in BC is authorized under the Range Act. Do you think we should be concerned with livestock-caused changes to water quality, stream bank erosion and riparian habitat?
It is not the same because they are not responsible for it the same way a livestock farmer would be? Well...you are right it isn't the same...actually salmon farming deals with more regulations and legislation.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/management-gestion/regs-eng.htm
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Maybe you need some posting points yourself.....
We are not talking about companies that fail (i.e. bankruptcy) and are bailed out for it - we are talking about legislated compensation given to farmers (aquaculture, beef, chicken, pig, etc.) when they are ordered by the same legislation to destroy their livestock or fish due to an infectious disease.
Politely put - utter codswallop. Automotive industry bailouts? Tax breaks for very profitable oil and gas companies? Same for the movie industry? and on and on.......
And just to put that utter load of BULL$&^T to rest about the feedlot crap factories, read this.
http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/21654/federal-400-million-fund-to-enhance-canadas-fishing-industry
or this
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
Don't let facts get in the way of you're drone of propaganda ;)
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"More than 19,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians currently employed in the provincial fishing and aquaculture industry, primarily in rural areas of the province, will benefit directly from the new opportunities created with this funding." :)
Not sure what you are trying to put in the pot you are stirring Nova, but from where I am standing it still looks empty. :)
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Thanks Steve. :). I screwed up. Just saying we cant depend on the same number of salmon coming back each year.
How unlike you Bawb. Best to just post a link to your favorite sites for people to read if they want some fiction. Keeps you at least a fingers length from the faxtx.
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Your pot looks empty also TB. Just a suggestion and this "is" simply a suggestion. You may make yourself look a bit more usefull if you put something worth listening too and a bit of substance in your pot. :)
To me, thinking the same number of salmon coming back each year would be dreaming. That is why farming in Alaska, BC and Washington started. The wild fishery was simply not sustainable.
Hence to the jobs on net pen salmon farms in Alaska. And it looks like they also grow out salmon for market sale. :)
http://www.jobmonkey.com/alaska/html/other_fisheries_jobs.html
Oops sorry, in alaska they like to call it fisheries jobs. My bad :)
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Politely put - utter codswallop. Automotive industry bailouts? Tax breaks for very profitable oil and gas companies? Same for the movie industry? and on and on.......
What are you rambling on about...lol? What does the Health of Animals Act have to do with bailouts and tax breaks? Here's a mindblower for you.....It doesn't. Once again we are talking about legislated compensation given to farmers (aquaculture, beef, chicken, pig, etc.) when they are ordered by the same legislation to destroy their livestock or fish due to an infectious disease.
Read the legislation....
Compensation to owners of animals
51. (1) The Minister may order compensation to be paid from the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the owner of an animal that is
(a) destroyed under this Act or is required by an inspector or officer to be destroyed under this Act and dies after the requirement is imposed but before being destroyed;
(b) injured in the course of being tested, treated or identified under this Act by an inspector or officer and dies, or is required to be destroyed, as a result of the injury; or
(c) reserved for experimentation under paragraph 13(2)(a).
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/h-3.3/
Where does it talk about tax breaks and bailouts? You easterners eat too much codswallop that's probably the problem. Cut back on it.
And just to put that utter load of BULL$&^T to rest about the feedlot crap factories, read this.
http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/21654/federal-400-million-fund-to-enhance-canadas-fishing-industry
Did you notice that they refer to the fishing industry as a whole and not just one sector like aquaculture? Kind of missed that, huh? But maybe you have a point...why should we be supporting fisheries in Newfoundland and Labrador anyway. If they can't make a go of it then why should we be supporting them. No business venture should be getting tax money. Nobody is giving your business $400 million. I can see why you are so bitter. Have a scotch.
or this
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
Don't let facts get in the way of you're drone of propaganda ;)
This thread is called, "Get your facts straight" so maybe you should. Reid is so ridiculous.
http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blog+post+full+of+errors%2C+ignorance+about+salmon+farming+and+business
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blogger+errs+again+in+claims+about+salmon+farms+and+compensation+
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/VIDEO-detail/60-minutes-grills-bc-salmon-farmers-government/
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/VIDEO-detail/60-minutes-grills-bc-salmon-farmers-government/
Yup, another site that does not provide a link for the reader to make up their own mind on what they are reading. Looks like a good site for the loyal listening club. Just taking the sites word as fact is commonsense??? Your stiring pot is still empty Nova. :)
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Mainstream/ Cermaq is a model for.......deceptive baloney
http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2014/02/fish-farm-sewage-staggering-cause-algal.html
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/christophermajka/2012/12/down-our-throats-fed-salmon-feedlots
http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/christophermajka/2012/12/down-our-throats-fed-salmon-feedlots
http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2013/12/mainstream-slaughtered-fish-money.html
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The feedlot manipulation methods exposed......( smells like bawb amd brian)
http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/component/k2/item/139-spinning-farmed-salmon-part-1-of-3
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The feedlot manipulation methods exposed......( smells like bawb amd brian)
http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/component/k2/item/139-spinning-farmed-salmon-part-1-of-3
"The companies themselves are not local, but are almost all part of a transnational industry which is as likely to rear fish off the coast of Norway, Canada or Chile as Scotland."
More US poopaganda Nova. They left out Alaska, Washington and Maine. Just another site for the loyal listening club. Does "transnational industry" mean from wild to farmed? Seems to me that all the big farming companies use to be and some still are, in the wild catch business that was not sustainable to the growing population demand. Tis why your home province is utilizing both.
Perhaps you should take the time to read your own post links before you waste your time stirring your empty pot. :)
http://m.thefishsite.com/news/21654
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Why keep harping about the states? I live in Canada, BC so I'm more concerned about the affect of fish farms here. We could go on talking about some of the disasters in Chili if you want Bawb I don't want that happening here. Looks like enough farmed fish here are heading for the dump Bawbby. Your on the pot without a stir stick.
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Why keep harping about the states? I live in Canada, BC so I'm more concerned about the affect of fish farms here. We could go on talking about some of the disasters in Chili if you want Bawb I don't want that happening here. Looks like enough farmed fish here are heading for the dump Bawbby. Your on the pot without a stir stick.
I see you are blowing smoke again TB and its not from fanning the flames. You really need to put a log on your fire lol. You can start by telling us all where in BC salmon farming has harmed wild salmon. All I can see is it hurt the price of wild caught aka farmed Alaskan salmon. Nothing wrong with competitive prices and consumer choice I say. :)
Food for thought. :)
http://www.iser.uaa.alaska.edu/people/knapp/personal/Predict5a.htm
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Why keep harping about the states? I live in Canada, BC so I'm more concerned about the affect of fish farms here. We could go on talking about some of the disasters in Chili if you want Bawb I don't want that happening here. Looks like enough farmed fish here are heading for the dump Bawbby. Your on the pot without a stir stick.
It's all about diversion TB. Bawb knows full well about his hero companies and the atrocious records elsewhere , but deflection and diversion is a tactic common amongst the feedlot group. I've got a $10 bill to help Bawb go to visit the Alaskan legislature and straighten them..... Maybe Washington to address congress, because when Bawb speaks no one listens.
Red herring Bawbster, but it takes less courage or conviction than to really look at the issues, instead of putting up self serving bull$*&! spoon fed and written by his masters- try again Sonny!
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It's all about diversion TB. Bawb knows full well about his hero companies and the atrocious records elsewhere , but deflection and diversion is a tactic common amongst the feedlot group. I've got a $10 bill to help Bawb go to visit the Alaskan legislature and straighten them..... Maybe Washington to address congress, because when Bawb speaks no one listens.
Red herring Bawbster, but it takes less courage or conviction than to really look at the issues, instead of putting up self serving bull$*&! spoon fed and written by his masters- try again Sonny!
You may want to try some prune juice Nova. You seem a little on the cranky side of life. Really not sure why you would feel that way when folks back home are doing so well. :)
http://m.thefishsite.com/news/21654
If that did not cheer you up Nova this may. Life really is not to bad when you break free of all that doom and gloom poopaganda of yours. :)
http://youtu.be/SJUhlRoBL8M
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I agree with aqua, not sure where you are coming from as many farmers lease land to other farmers to use. Farmers don't have to sell the land if they want to move. That means that some farmers don't own the land they raise their crops or livestock on - someone else does. My late father-in-law was a farmer and leased out land to others. Does the cattle rancher that has his cattle grazing on Crown Land (most land in BC is Crown Land) own that land? The fact is that grazing in BC is authorized under the Range Act. Do you think we should be concerned with livestock-caused changes to water quality, stream bank erosion and riparian habitat?
It is not the same because they are not responsible for it the same way a livestock farmer would be? Well...you are right it isn't the same...actually salmon farming deals with more regulations and legislation.
Whether leasing or owning the farmer has more expense via land cost to run his business,part of the risk of running the business making it a failure or a success.
Grazing on crown land is done in addition to land the the farmer already has,he does not raise his cattle exclusively on crown land with no bldg.
He would have to have land and bldgs to house,feed and store his product.
This is part of extra expense that he would incur,something the salmon farmer does not have to.
Fact is that cattle would not do damage to the environment on such a large scale that the fish farms would.
Thus the need for more regulations.
Certainly a different business model ,many independant local farmers not 3 main large corporations,exporting products and profits out of our country while polluting our water with little regard.
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A new word for you to learn all about today Bawb! (Hint - it means not selling your soul for a few trinkets or whatever compensation the feedlots toss your way there, Ms. Mary Ellen)
Integrity
in·teg·ri·ty
inˈteɡrədē/
noun
noun: integrity
1.
the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.
"he is known to be a man of integrity"
synonyms: honesty, probity, rectitude, honor, good character, principle(s), ethics, morals, righteousness, morality, virtue, decency, fairness, scrupulousness, sincerity, truthfulness, trustworthiness
"I never doubted his integrity"
antonyms: dishonesty
2.
the state of being whole and undivided.
"upholding territorial integrity and national sovereignty"
synonyms: unity, unification, coherence, cohesion, togetherness, solidarity
"the integrity of the federation"
antonyms: division
the condition of being unified, unimpaired, or sound in construction.
"the structural integrity of the novel"
synonyms: soundness, strength, sturdiness, solidity, durability, stability, stoutness, toughness
"the structural integrity of the aircraft"
antonyms: fragility
internal consistency or lack of corruption in electronic data.
"integrity checking"
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I do admire your strong stand Nova and I must say I find it very entertaining watching you run in circles trying to catch your own tail. :)
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/VIDEO-detail/60-minutes-grills-bc-salmon-farmers-government/
Been discussed before....
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=35528.msg338251#msg338251
The 60 minutes program was actually pretty fair and not a condemnation of salmon farming as spun by Nonsensecanadian.ca
However, Morton was incorrect when she said that nobody was looking at the wild fish for ISAv. Well, the fact is that the US and Canada have already been conducting surveillance of wild fish for the past 4 years. No spin,...these are facts unless some folks think the WDFW is now involved in some conspiracy also:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may3013a/
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/aquatic-animals/diseases/reportable/isa/wild-anadromous-salmonids/eng/1370960326837/1370960742286
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/west-coast-wild-salmon-test-negative-for-three-fish-diseases/article12488672/
Secondly, Morton still doesn't understand how virus testing works and continues this ignorance during the interview. Been thoroughly discussed before, no time to go over it all over again.
Thirdly, Alaska is being held up like some shining model of fisheries management in the program when in reality there are some serious questions being raised by recent research about the release of billions of smolts (mostly Pink) by Japan, Russia and the US (i.e Alaska). None of these are touched on in the program. No mention of Alaskan wild Chinook stocks either. No mention that ranched salmon account for about 40% of the commercial harvest. The program says that the state enjoys the biggest salmon fishery in the world; however, the program should have clarified what ranched salmon really are - they are not wild. They are artificially propagated. Adult broodstock are selected by humans. They are also held in ocean net pens (not as long as farmed fish), fed food pellets, and could be given antibiotics and vaccines.
Its not that I am against salmon ranching totally, but sometimes too much of good thing may not be so good. Also, let the viewing public see all sides of this instead of giving them only one angle to judge. Calling these ranched salmon as "wild" is misleading.
Lastly, as for presence of ISA or ISAv off our coast it's all contained in the Cohen Final Report (Volume 2: Declined Related Evidence and Findings). Expert testimony which included Dr. Kristi Miller, Dr. Fred Kibenge and Dr. Are Nylund all weighed in on this and said there is not sufficient evidence at this time to conclude the presence of either ISA or ISAv. Folks do not have to take my word for it - they can read it for themselves. Following the inquiry, viral surveillance programs (ongoing) by the US and Canada mentioned above did not find ISAv or ISA. There was also no mention of the thousands of samples tested on BC fish farms which showed no ISA or ISAv - not to mention that if ISA were present on BC fish farms there would be mass mortality just like the Chilean example that Morton loves to use. Not sure why they interviewed a lawyer for that sort of question. That was a waste of time. All they had to do was call up Dr. Nylund and he would have told them.
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Whether leasing or owning the farmer has more expense via land cost to run his business,part of the risk of running the business making it a failure or a success.
I am not sure about the figures in this regard however you seem to know. Do you know what the difference is?
Grazing on crown land is done in addition to land the the farmer already has,he does not raise his cattle exclusively on crown land with no bldg.
He would have to have land and bldgs to house,feed and store his product.
This is part of extra expense that he would incur,something the salmon farmer does not have to.
You are right that part of the raising of cattle is done on both (Although again most land in the province is Crown Land…When you go hunting and fishing you will see cattle free ranging), but that is really not different from aquaculture where part of the raising of fish takes place outside of net pens in buildings that incubate eggs before they hatch. Smolts are reared in tanks, in buildings, before being introduced to the ocean pens. Salmon farmers would also have to have buildings to store feed and product. It’s the coast of BC where rain is a common occurrence so why wouldn’t they have buildings? Fish feed needs to be kept in freezers (which would require some sort of building) so that it doesn’t spoil. I used to work at fish hatchery as a student. So in a nutshell, yes, even salmon farmers have expenses in this regard.
Fact is that cattle would not do damage to the environment on such a large scale that the fish farms would.
Thus the need for more regulations.
Certainly a different business model ,many independant local farmers not 3 main large corporations,exporting products and profits out of our country while polluting our water with little regard.
Well, I will refer you to the Cohen Final Report where salmon farming was no more of a leading factor as other impacts which includes land-based agricultural practices. If salmon farming here is creating large scale damage please show me your evidence (but this could turn into another circular argument). I believe the need for more regulations is combination of things such as the environment fish farms are located in where multiple agencies are involved as well as the public concern over aquaculture and governments reaction to it. I don’t believe the regulations are in place necessarily because aquaculture does more damage, but more for the potential of damage. When you think about it more focus is put on aquaculture where other activities are presently flying under the radar and are likely doing more harm. It’s a case where the squeaky wheel gets the grease, in my opinion.
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Wow, I admire your passion for free thinking Brian, and your usual links for helping to do so! Considering the stress of your day job at this time of year, that was an admiral post :)
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Wow, I admire your passion for free thinking Brian, and your usual links for helping to do so! Considering the stress of your day job at this time of year, that was an admiral post :)
I concur. You give us a great perspective Steve and I thank you for your posts that keeps the mind open and something to think about each day. It is people like you that got me out of the doom and gloom small box and started me thinking about the big picture. :)
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I concur. You give us a great perspective Steve and I thank you for your posts that keeps the mind open and something to think about each day. It is people like you that got me out of the doom and gloom small box and started me thinking about the big picture. :)
Too bnad you're watching it on a small screen. :o
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Too bnad you're watching it on a small screen. :o
PUI is not a good idea Nova. Try again in the morning. :)
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What are you rambling on about...lol? What does the Health of Animals Act have to do with bailouts and tax breaks? Here's a mindblower for you.....It doesn't. Once again we are talking about legislated compensation given to farmers (aquaculture, beef, chicken, pig, etc.) when they are ordered by the same legislation to destroy their livestock or fish due to an infectious disease.
Read the legislation....
Compensation to owners of animals
51. (1) The Minister may order compensation to be paid from the Consolidated Revenue Fund to the owner of an animal that is
(a) destroyed under this Act or is required by an inspector or officer to be destroyed under this Act and dies after the requirement is imposed but before being destroyed;
(b) injured in the course of being tested, treated or identified under this Act by an inspector or officer and dies, or is required to be destroyed, as a result of the injury; or
(c) reserved for experimentation under paragraph 13(2)(a).
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/h-3.3/
Where does it talk about tax breaks and bailouts? You easterners eat too much codswallop that's probably the problem. Cut back on it.
Did you notice that they refer to the fishing industry as a whole and not just one sector like aquaculture? Kind of missed that, huh? But maybe you have a point...why should we be supporting fisheries in Newfoundland and Labrador anyway. If they can't make a go of it then why should we be supporting them. No business venture should be getting tax money. Nobody is giving your business $400 million. I can see why you are so bitter. Have a scotch.
This thread is called, "Get your facts straight" so maybe you should. Reid is so ridiculous.
http://www.mainstream-group.com/portal/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blog+post+full+of+errors%2C+ignorance+about+salmon+farming+and+business
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/conflict-and-criticism/blogger+errs+again+in+claims+about+salmon+farms+and+compensation+
Just had to bump you up Steve. Thanks again :)
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Iphone-Wallpapers_zps8279d739.jpg) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil-Iphone-Wallpapers_zps8279d739.jpg.html)
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LOL
Just for the record my late father-in-law was a potato farmer back in NB. I have deep ties back in NB. I have been there often. I love the people and the province.
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I concur. You give us a great perspective Steve and I thank you for your posts that keeps the mind open and something to think about each day. It is people like you that got me out of the doom and gloom small box and started me thinking about the big picture. :)
Nice bum pat Bawb but Dave beat you to it. :-[
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Nice bum pat Bawb but Dave beat you to it. :-[
I know you like me TB. Thanks for the smile. :)
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http://vimeo.com/83845976#at=0
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Well worth watching, thanks aqua
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/curse-of-seafood-watch-strikes-again-virginia-cobia-farms/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/curse-of-seafood-watch-strikes-again-virginia-cobia-farms/
There you go AGAIN with the Americans Bawb- Move there and change it since it obviously irritates you.
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There you go AGAIN with the Americans Bawb- Move there and change it since it obviously irritates you.
Ha Ha made you look Nova. There YOU go again attacking the poster and not the message. I am starting to think you are not from the east coast at all the way you seem to like defending American bad tactics. :)
At least they provide links to where their info comes from.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/curse-of-seafood-watch-strikes-again-virginia-cobia-farms/
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Ha Ha made you look Nova. There YOU go again attacking the poster and not the message. I am starting to think you are not from the east coast at all the way you seem to like defending American bad tactics. :)
At least they provide links to where their info comes from.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/curse-of-seafood-watch-strikes-again-virginia-cobia-farms/
I might suggest you think before you post a lie Bawb. Show me where I've ever defended American practices. Did you know that posting lies on the internet is an actionable offense? Get your facts straight.
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I might suggest you think before you post a lie Bawb. Show me where I've ever defended American practices. Did you know that posting lies on the internet is an actionable offense? Get your facts straight.
Read the post again Nova and get your facts straight before getting all worked up and your curly's in a knot over a simple debate.
The way you "seem" to be defending American bad tactics.:)
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The simple solution is don't tell lies Bob. You can feel free to assault my posts, but assaulting my character by inference or outright lies is out of bounds and I have that from a friend that teaches law at UBC, with an area of expertise in internet law.
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The simple solution is don't tell lies Bob. You can feel free to assault my posts, but assaulting my character by inference or outright lies is out of bounds and I have that from a friend that teaches law at UBC, with an area of expertise in internet law.
Could be a very good friend of mine also. May I suggest you get our possible friend to read and and tell you what my post says or perhaps give you a reading lesson or two before you get your curly's in a knot. It seems that the black board is not working for you, or are you just off on one your tangents crying wolf again? :)
Btw thank you for finally being able to spell my name right. It realy only takes three letters. :)
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Don't spreads lies,innuendo, inferences or rumours about me or I promise you won't like the results. I've spoken to my friend and will be seeing him tonight. He's already reiterated exactly what I've related to you. Take it any way you want. As a sign on the Vedder says- YOU'RE WARNED.
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Don't spreads lies,innuendo, inferences or rumours about me or I promise you won't like the results. I've spoken to my friend and will be seeing him tonight. He's already reiterated exactly what I've related to you. Take it any way you want. As a sign on the Vedder says- YOU'RE WARNED.
Touchy are we today. You will get over it.
Also please do not send any more threat messages. :)
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That wasn't a threat. There you go again with another fabrication. I pointed out legal cases which you could use for guidance and telling you to stop with the misinformation or I would proceed with legal remedies. There was no threat involved. I don't take kindly to character assaults. Feel free to post the"threat".
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Wow, talk about being chicken s&@& and childish.
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There are times Nova, that it is best to taste our own cooking before serving it out to other people as what it appears I have done in the past. It seems to me that you are unwilling to do that. That being said, may I suggest you have a Snicker's, you do not seem to be yourself lately. :)
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The Salish Sea Marine Survival Project leverages human and financial resources from the United States and Canada to determine the primary factors affecting the survival of juvenile salmon and steelhead in the Salish Sea. It is the largest and most important research of its kind in the shared waters of British Columbia and Washington State, addressing a key uncertainty impeding salmon recovery and sustainable fisheries. The project will, for the first time, undertake a comprehensive study of the physical, chemical and biological factors impacting salmon survival, in order to improve our collective understanding of salmon in saltwater, facilitating smarter management and stronger returns.
http://marinesurvivalproject.com/
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Food for thought. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/the-worlds-largest-pasture/
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some anti-farm propaganda.... time to buy some shares in marine harvest I suppose. Diversify my portfolio. ;)
http://www.conservationcouncil.ca/new-federal-government-regulation-proposes-to-kill-wild-fish-to-protect-fish-farms/
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An interesting vid on wild and farmed salmon at the bottom of the page. :)
http://bcdairy.ca/bcatthetable/
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Some really good stuff on here:
http://www.vitalchoice.com/shop/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=279
"A considerable body of research shows that salmon farms can harm wild salmon by acting as concentrated sources of disease and sea lice that spread to wild salmon migrating past the aquaculture pens.
Atlantic salmon were brought to the edge of extinction by contamination from salmon farms in Norway, Ireland, and Scotland, and remain scarce in the wild. Chilean salmon farms have been plagued by ongoing problems with disease. "
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The key word is "can" TB, not "is". :) Atlantics were brought to near extinction well before farming started. That was from over fishing and poor land use. The big question to ask, why did salmon farming start if the commercial fishery is supposedly sustainable? For the history of Atlantics in the Pacific.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/timeline_atlantics.pdf
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I believe the key word is them not saying "can't" harm wild stocks. So words like can or could show a likelihood of affecting wild fish stocks. Surely you can follow the train of thought there...can, could as opposed to can't, wouldn't.
Anyway on the upside:
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/10/27/land-based-farmed-salmon-gets-monterey-bay-aquarium-green-rating/
"All other farmed salmon, from Norway, Scotland, Canada or Chile, is rated as “avoid” by the Monterey Bay Aquarium."
Fair comment and precise wording "avoid".
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/09/24/for-us-seafood-entrepreneur-betting-on-us-inland-farmed-salmon/
Just a matter of time before the old dirty fish style is a thing of the past. :D
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What about the US farmed Atlantic salmon in Washington and Maine? Is Monterey Bay fine with them TB?
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Why on earth would the U.S. de market anything of theirs. Apparently they missed those 2 US locations that farm atlantics in net pens. Not listed on there page. I'm not surprised either.
In fact they seem to have put a blanket clearance (best choice)of any closed containment salmon facility around the world. Wow. Seems to lack due process.
Let's not forget that these are American foundations funding these clever lowbrow marketing tactics which benefit American itnterests.
http://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/groups/salmon?method=farmed&q=Salmon,%20Farmed
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http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_profiles/species/salmon/species_pages/atlantic_salmon_farmed.htm
"The U.S. Atlantic salmon aquaculture industry has grown to some 12,000 tons (live weight) per year produced in Maine (around $78 million) and around 8,000 tons in Washington State (roughly $52 million). The United States also imports over 280,000 tons a year of salmon, mainly from Canada, Scotland, Norway, and Chile."
So basically their raising less salmon than one of our fishfarms here sends to the dump because were less stringent. What's your point?
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http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_profiles/species/salmon/species_pages/atlantic_salmon_farmed.htm
"The U.S. Atlantic salmon aquaculture industry has grown to some 12,000 tons (live weight) per year produced in Maine (around $78 million) and around 8,000 tons in Washington State (roughly $52 million). The United States also imports over 280,000 tons a year of salmon, mainly from Canada, Scotland, Norway, and Chile."
So basically their raising less salmon than one of our fishfarms here sends to the dump because were less stringent. What's your point?
Is your point, Canada should raise them the same as the US TB? Btw you forgot about the 1.5 billion salmon that are farmed in Alaska each year. :)
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Is your point, Canada should raise them the same as the US TB? Btw you forgot about the 1.5 billion salmon that are farmed in Alaska each year. :)
I kinda think your catching on though I'm not sure if your reading everything correctly:
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/09/24/for-us-seafood-entrepreneur-betting-on-us-inland-farmed-salmon/
So yes that's my point:
"Homestead, Florida, capable of producing 30,000 metric tons a year of whole gutted Atlantic salmon for the US market."
Read the article first comment second this time bawb, these fish are being raised:
"Andreassen aims to build Atlantic Sapphire into a leading land-based salmon farm over the next five or six years"
Glad to walk you through it again if you get tripped up. I can't see your point on the Alaskan fishery though, you seem to think their in some big net pen? 1.5 billion fish in a net pen gebus slice bawb.
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I believe the key word is them not saying "can't" harm wild stocks. So words like can or could show a likelihood of affecting wild fish stocks. Surely you can follow the train of thought there...can, could as opposed to can't, wouldn't.
Anyway on the upside:
http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/10/27/land-based-farmed-salmon-gets-monterey-bay-aquarium-green-rating/
"All other farmed salmon, from Norway, Scotland, Canada or Chile, is rated as “avoid” by the Monterey Bay Aquarium."
Monterey Bay's Seafood Watch Program seems like a good thing but if you look into it more they don't really practice what they preach. Monterey Bay's aquarium contains their animals in an open system where their wastewater is discharged unfiltered back into the bay. This discharge includes pathogens, chemicals and medicines. The species of shrimp they feed their aquarium animals are red-listed by the aquarium's own program.
On the other hand, BC fish farms don't seem to meet Seafood Watch's Program criteria:
Due to the open nature of the production system which provides no barrier to infection from environmental pathogens that then subsequently require treatment with antibiotics highly important to human health remains a fundamental weakness of the system…
Seems kind of hypocritical to me. Their own practices don't even meet the grade.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/monterey-bay-aquarium-applying-for-waste-impact-exception/
If you were to objectively use the Program's own scoring system on Alaskan ranched salmon they would get a bad grade. Not really surprising considering that ranched salmon are artificially propagated in a hatchery and raised in ocean net pens for part of the their life (fed pellet food and antibiotics when required...similar to BC fish farms). Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern. This all gets hidden because in the Program's eyes the status of Alaskan salmon stocks (augmented by large hatchery operations which they admit) are a low conservation concern. On top of that, Alaskan ranched salmon are marketed as "wild Alaskan salmon" when really they are not. Smoke and mirrors and some good marketing gives them a good grade from the Program.
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"Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern."
If you'll allow me, this sounds like when someone mentions viruses affecting salmon in BC we get the "those virus's where always here" argument. No mention of concern about that just ya them virus's always here so why worry. What about them smoky mirrors. Hmmmm
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"Although there is growing concern and literature regarding the potential impact of releasing billions of ranched salmon (by Russia, Japan and the US) on wild stocks, the aquarium's Seafood Watch Program doesn't even mention it as a concern."
If you'll allow me, this sounds like when someone mentions viruses affecting salmon in BC we get the "those virus's where always here" argument. No mention of concern about that just ya them virus's always here so why worry. What about them smoky mirrors. Hmmmm
Are you trying to compare viruses that are endemic to BC that have most likely been present in our waters for centuries with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)? Which has been around longer - viruses or Alaskan salmon ranching? That's like comparing apples to oranges. Not to mention that there is no evidence that an exotic salmonid disease has been introduced to BC. Concern is one thing - Fear mongering is another. Yeah, what about those smoky mirrors, TB? Hmmmm......
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"with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)?"
If you'll allow me (which I doubt) but you just said that the practice has gone on for 30 plus years. Don't you think in that time some evidence of harm to Alaska's wild fish stocks. I guess it being Halloween your just trying to scare people. It's working but maybe not the way you think. I'm concerned about how you compare your apple orange thing hmmmmmm.
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"with a major program, started in the late 80s, that involves the artificial propagation of juvenile for release into the North Pacific each year (called salmon ranching)?"
If you'll allow me (which I doubt) but you just said that the practice has gone on for 30 plus years. Don't you think in that time some evidence of harm to Alaska's wild fish stocks. I guess it being Halloween your just trying to scare people. It's working but maybe not the way you think. I'm concerned about how you compare your apple orange thing hmmmmmm.
Of course I will allow you.......
There is quite a bit of literature now on ranched salmon impacts from not just Alaska but from Asia also. I posted this one a little while ago:
http://afs.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1577/C09-054.1
There are these ones also:
Brenner, R.E., Moffitt, S.D., and Grant, W.S. 2012. Straying of hatchery salmon in Prince William Sound, Alaska. Environmental Biology of Fishes 94(1): 179-‐195.
Competition between Asian pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) and Alaskan sockeye salmon (O. nerka) in the North Pacific Ocean
http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1273768738.pdf
Google researchers like Ruggerone, Peterman, Dorner, Irvine, Cooney and included key words like "hatchery" or "artificially enhanced" and you will find more. Even conservations groups in BC like Watershed Watch Salmon Society and Raincoast Conservation Foundation (those organizations sound familiar, huh?) who are staunchly against open net pen aquaculture are concerned about ocean ranched salmon impacts on wild salmon. They even want to exclude Prince William Sound fisheries from the current MSC certification:
http://www.watershed-watch.org/AlaskaSalmonBackgrounder.pdf
Not trying to scare anyone at all. Just showing that fish farm critics shouldn't focus too hard on the BC fish farm industry and instead should look around more and take in other relevant information on other impacts.
Hmmm...let's turn the tables on you....BC salmon farming has been around for almost the same time and there was no evidence of that aquaculture in BC was the cause of decline in Fraser Sockeye, according to the Cohen Final Report. But don't you think in that time there would have been some evidence of harm, TB? Boo! ;D
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I had to take my tinfoil hat off to read that last post steve. That stuff you posted can be countered with all the stuff written about open pen fish farming. I personally have nothing against fish farming just how some companies do it. If you think I would read the links you posted ....hmmmmm
Just look at how little open pen salmon farming is done in the states because of concerns. I'm sure they would do the same with the ranchin if they were as concerned cowboy. Just sayen.
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I had to take my tinfoil hat off to read that last post steve. That stuff you posted can be countered with all the stuff written about open pen fish farming. I personally have nothing against fish farming just how some companies do it. If you think I would read the links you posted ....hmmmmm
Just look at how little open pen salmon farming is done in the states because of concerns. I'm sure they would do the same with the ranchin if they were as concerned cowboy. Just sayen.
Oh there is lots of stuff written about open net pen fish farming as well as lots of other factors like habitat loss, climate change, forestry impacts, algal blooms, non-point source contaminants and interactions with hatchery salmon. All those factors and more, including the researchers and studies that accompanied them, were brought up at the Cohen Inquiry. What do you think Cohen concluded about the impact of fish farming on the decline of Fraser Sockeye? Again...it's in the report - read it. Hey, don't read those reports I posted if you don't want to. Hey, when apocalyptic catastrophe due to salmon farming in BC is prophesized by the mothership but doesn't happen the way it's supposed to I admit it's difficult to look at other perspectives. As for the US, they are going to get more involved in open net pen aquaculture in the near future if you care to look into it. It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border. Smoke and mirrors.
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"It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border"
So your saying either there is no anti open pen folks down south or "the mothership" is all and powerful (not to mention one heck of a sweeper).
hmmmm
I'd say your probably wrong on both counts. Since 2011 US feds have been looking into allowing open pens. Seems like they are having a slow look at it. Open penners have tried to get there dog and pony show in federal waters but have only been allowed in Washington State waters. You smoked your mirror, man. If it wasn't for all dem dead open pen raised fish down Washington state way, you never know.
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"It goes on right now in Washington State, but that just gets swept under the rug by farm critics on this side of the border"
So your saying either there is no anti open pen folks down south or "the mothership" is all and powerful (not to mention one heck of a sweeper).
hmmmm
I'd say your probably wrong on both counts. Since 2011 US feds have been looking into allowing open pens. Seems like they are having a slow look at it. Open penners have tried to get there dog and pony show in federal waters but have only been allowed in Washington State waters. You smoked your mirror, man. If it wasn't for all dem dead open pen raised fish down Washington state way, you never know.
The only reason there aren’t more salmon farms in Washington, Oregon and California is simple really … they don’t have the unique geography we in coastal BC have that is so necessary for successful and profitable net pen salmon aquaculture … the main feature being the many islands and fiords that are protected from most major weather events, but have enough tidal influence to flush and clear net pen effluent, and equally important financially, access to reliable electrical power. The farms in Puget Sound are there for the same reasons they are in BC, to make money and employ people, but they don’t have much room to expand compared to us here in BC.
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There is quite a bit of literature now on ranched salmon impacts from not just Alaska but from Asia also. I posted this one a little while ago:
Hard to compare salmon ranching to salmon farming.
First off its a different species of salmon,Atlantic vs a resident,endemic species
Ranching is used to boost wild stocks, if you wanted to ,you could compare Alaska's Ranching to our hatchery production ,the difference being that they are raised in different locations.
You could say our method is more hands off as the fry and smolts are not raised in net pens as they are in ranching.
As for reading all the links, I agree with Tb I dont want to download 4 different links to 40 page documents .If you have something to say, just say it , if we need corrobaration we will ask .
As for the cohen report, how can you use this as evidence for anything , you keep mentioning it like it should have more evidence ,it doesnt.Wouldnt salmon survival be more effected when they are at a young stage.
Anything that would affect them, IE sea lice, would affect them in there early stages not as grown adults.
We need a study on this young stage, I am sure someone has a link to a study on that, it would be an interesting read.
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Not saying there are no anti open net pen folks down south. I refer to the vocal bunch here on this side of the border who ignore that open net pen aquaculture goes on in Washington State and is expanding in other areas of the US.
Good Lord...I thought anti-fish farm critics were the masters at Google searches. Just a simple search of NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and Aquaculture will show you how the US plans to expand its aquaculture industry which can include ocean net pen aquaculture. Since 2011? C'mon....open net pen aquaculture has been operating in Maine and Washington State longer than 2011.
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Hard to compare salmon ranching to salmon farming.
First off its a different species of salmon,Atlantic vs a resident,endemic species
Ranching is used to boost wild stocks, if you wanted to ,you could compare Alaska's Ranching to our hatchery production ,the difference being that they are raised in different locations.
Yes, a different salmon species is used, but they are not that different if you look into it. Ranching doesn't raise salmon to market size but the fish husbandry is not much different (i.e. fish food, medicine, chemicals, OCEAN NET PEN, etc.).
You could say our method is more hands off as the fry and smolts are not raised in net pens as they are in ranching.
I would not say that raising fish in a federal hatchery is any less "hands off". Go visit a federal hatchery in your area and see for yourself.
As for reading all the links, I agree with Tb I dont want to download 4 different links to 40 page documents .If you have something to say, just say it , if we need corrobaration we will ask.
I have said it, but some don't want to listen. That's fine...I expect it...lol. When asked for evidence I provided it. If you don't want to read it that's fine, but don't make excuses about not wanting to download 4 different links to read 40 page documents. Funny thing is that fish farm critics love to post multiple links which they use to bolster their argument but complain when I just post a few. I posted 3 links to studies done as a sample. If you can't read those then I can't help you. If you are genuinely interested in this you will take the time to read these unless you are afraid it might challenge your opinions and perceptions.
As for the cohen report, how can you use this as evidence for anything , you keep mentioning it like it should have more evidence ,it doesnt.
How do I use the Cohen Report as evidence for anything? Cohen looked at all possible factors and talked to a wide range of experts on that deal with each of those. Although Cohen didn't find a smoking gun it really didn't come as a big surprise as it is a little naïve to think that one factor is doing all the harm and works in isolation of others. I never said that Cohen had all the answers or the evidence; in fact, Cohen suggest that evidence is lacking in many areas. It doesn't answer all the questions but instead raises more which is a good thing also. It addressed data gaps that needed to be studied and some are. However, in respect to aquaculture, it was clear that Cohen didn't condemn aquaculture in BC and blame it solely for the declining Fraser Sockeye productivity. I use Cohen to show that what farm critics thought was damning evidence against the industry here is not necessarily so. There is more going on and the doom and gloom prophesies regarding fish farming are not panning out.
Salmon juveniles can suffer a lot of mortality, but that includes freshwater residency (egg, alevin, fry) - not just juveniles entering saltwater and swimming by fish farms. That is being studied currently as we speak. If you look at the PSF website you will see how they are involved with university academia and DFO looking at juvenile Fraser Sockeye survival.
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"Not saying there are no anti open net pen folks down south."
I'm not sure your saying anything other than your strong emotional response to "the mothership" now. Flipping like a fish on that issue Steve. Some of those people down south who object to open pen fish farms might be raising other things in the ocean there ....maybe.
"C'mon....open net pen aquaculture has been operating in Maine and Washington State longer than 2011."
So what's the holden up the stage coach then. Cheap salmon coming from Mexicanada? Polluted waters? NOAA been barking about more aquaculture but no bite. Bad dog. 2011 hmmm what happened in 2011?
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Time for your meds tb ;)
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That could be the problem.
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Escapement of Atlantic's from ocean net pens is not a concern. If it was, we would already have Atlantic salmon in a few of our streams at the coast, like the Stave and Coquitlam due to stocking in 1905. http://www.gofishbc.com/fish-stocking-reports/archive-reports/ReportOutputResult.aspx?StockSpecies=all&StockStrains=all&StockGenotypes=all&FishStages=all&Region=LOWER%20MAINLAND&Town=all&Waterbody=all&&YearFrom=1905&YearTo=1913
The concern is for the transfer of pathogens between these farmed fish and wild salmon.
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The concern is for the transfer of pathogens between these farmed fish and wild salmon.
Yup, and to date, after about 40 years of salmon farming in BC the only documented disease transfer has been from wild Pacific's to farmed Atlantics.
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Yup, and to date, after about 40 years of salmon farming in BC the only documented disease transfer has been from wild Pacific's to farmed Atlantics.
Maybe that will wipe them out one day. ;D ;D
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Time for your meds tb ;)
and time for you and Steve to bone up on what's going on down south
"Just a simple search of NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and Aquaculture will show you how the US plans to expand its aquaculture industry which can include ocean net pen aquaculture. "
" We provide vital services for the nation: productive and sustainable fisheries, safe sources of seafood, the recovery and conservation of protected resources, and healthy ecosystems—all backed by sound science and an ecosystem-based approach to management."
I guess the stinking open pen salmon farm doesn't make the grade eh. As Steve said they been open pen fish farms for years down there. Just a few though and everything else is going land based. Only way these guy's are going to give you the OK. I'm sure they prefer to see a feed lot ally up in Canada. They've learned from the beef farms down there polluting the ground water...just do it in Alberta....their stupid enough to let us.
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You're all over the place with this post tb ... are you doubting aquaculture will expand in the US? I gave a reason why Washington doesn't have much room for expansion of their industry and why BC is so well placed to do exactly that .. as for land based salmon farms, I am all in favor, but I can't see it being profitable, just yet.
You keep referring to salmon farms as "stinking" ... have you ever been to one?
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Once again for TB. Take the hat off. :)
http://dailyuw.com/archive/2014/10/23/science/aquaculture#.VFrOVim9Kc2
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You're all over the place with this post tb ... are you doubting aquaculture will expand in the US? I gave a reason why Washington doesn't have much room for expansion of their industry and why BC is so well placed to do exactly that .. as for land based salmon farms, I am all in favor, but I can't see it being profitable, just yet.
You keep referring to salmon farms as "stinking" ... have you ever been to one?
Your going nowhere Dave.
Dave put a few thousand dead diseased fish in a net pen and what ya got ....exactly.
You sure that there is not more fish farms there because other types of aquaculture does not want all the pharmaceutical turds from net penned salmon? Try out fresh shellfish from under the net pen. Sounds delish.
Bawb that article is more plagiarized stuff off the net. I wouldn't take a class from him in fact he would be kicked out of most post secondary institutes if he handed that in. :P
http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=1274030
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In July 2006, the initial draft of the plan was reviewed and endorsed by MAFAC (Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee). Based on MAFAC’s comments, the plan was revised by NOAA and made available for further public comment in November 2006. In October 2007, the plan was adopted by NOAA as an agency-wide policy document intended to guide a broad, national initiative for marine aquaculture
based on four distinct goals:
1] A comprehensive regulatory program for marine aquaculture.
2] Development of commercial marine aquaculture and
replenishment of wild stocks
3] Public understanding of marine aquaculture.
4] Increased collaboration and cooperation with international partners.
Momentum is building for the United States to use aquaculture to become more self-sufficient in the production of seafood and the replenishment of wild stocks. Recognizing this, in June 2005 the Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC) requested that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) prepare a plan to support the future development of marine aquaculture in the United States.
In its 2006 report, “State of World Aquaculture”, the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) reported that nearly half of the fish consumed as food worldwide are raised on fish farms (compared to 9 percent in 1980) and estimated that world wide aquaculture production would have to increase from 45.5 million mt in 2004 to 80 million mt in 2050 to just
maintain current per capita consumption levels. The FAO highlighted the growing consumer demand for seafood as one of the most important driving forces behind the surge in production. Media coverage of the FAO report along with more recent
concern over the safety of seafood imports has added context and urgency to the U.S. effort to spark more domestic seafood production through aquaculture to meet the growing demand.
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/docs/policy/final_noaa_10_yr_plan.pdf
Today, aquaculture in federal waters is among the most talked-about technologies associated with the future of seafood production in the United States. This recent wave of interest in the offshore has strong roots in Chapter 24 of the U.S. Commission on Ocean Policy’s September 2004 report to Congress, An Ocean Blueprint for the 21st Century. In its report, the Commission recommended that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) develop a comprehensive, environmentally sound permitting and regulatory program for marine aquaculture.
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/docs/economics_report/econ_report_all.pdf
Oh...but wait...there's more....and not all land-based either....
http://www.noaa.gov/features/resources_0109/aquaculture.html
http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/aquaculture/supplemental_pages/in_the_regions.html
https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/National/Federal/Pages/NOAA-Strategic-Plan.aspx
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2011/20110711_aquaculture.html
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/07/24/usa-prepares-for-massive-growth-in-aquaculture/
That should keep you busy for awhile, TB, or do wish to stay in your state of denial?
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/noaas-little-boo-boo/
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"urgency to the U.S. effort to spark more domestic seafood production through aquaculture "
"Momentum is building for the United States to use aquaculture to become more self-sufficient in the production of seafood and the replenishment of wild stocks. Recognizing this, in June 2005 the Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC) requested that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) prepare a plan to support the future development of marine aquaculture in the United States."
I felt the wind as the momentum from 2005 finally caught up to me Steve. Mussed up my haido no denying that.
Looks like the ol net pen will only be allowed out in the open ocean some miles off shore. Could be a rough ride in more ways than a shark has teeth. You and Bawb could get a job out there if you don't get sea sick. Make a good shark movie as well like Sharknado. The movie could help offset the costs of trying to keep the net pen out there. That's a free one from me by the way. Only trying to be helpful.
Nice post Bawb I forwarded it to NOAA. Sure to make some friends there. :D
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"Today, Seafood Watch (based in Monterey Bay, California) released its updated seafood recommendation reports on farm-raised salmon in Norway, Chile, Scotland, and Canada (BC). And whad’ya know, all reports still recommend the consumer avoid farm-raised salmon from around the world — except for one US owned company that farms salmon in Chile, and one (also U.S. owned) company that raises salmon in tanks on land in Washington State (now bankrupt)."
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/the-seafood-watch-report-on-salmon-aquaculture-in-alaska/
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Nothing has changed in the industry,its still poor for our ocean mono culture environment.
It still requires a large amount of feed to raise a fish to proper adult harvest size(salmon farming)
The method is still more prone to infection due to concentration of fish .
They are raising a foreign species which is more prone to disease,you need only to look at Chile's salmon farming industry,which nearly collapsed from virus outbreak.
The fact that most of the companies have a poor track record in other countries,basically abandoning some of there farms when they caused harm to the environment or were problematic.
I applaud Seafood Watch for bringing these issues to the fore,someone needs to watching ,in what can be a poorly regulated industry.
Not in my backyard!
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Not in my backyard!
Sorry bud, have a look see, here and Washington, your back yard. Salmon farms aren't going anywhere and will most likely expand here in BC, if the market dictates.
Your passion is obvious but put your efforts into things that matter, like habitat restoration and less fishing on what wild stocks we have left ;)
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Sorry should have been clearer with the the 'Not in my back yard' comment
It was meant to mean the poor salmon farming practices that happen in other countries that go unchecked,again you can look at Chile as an example.
Glad people here have their eyes on it . Accountability!
I dont think people would let it happen here ,I wouldnt,thus the 'Not in my backyard" comment.
We have one of the most beautiful pristine marine environments in the world.
It needs protecting !
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Nothing has changed in the industry,its still poor for our ocean mono culture environment.
The ocean is monoculture? Please explain.
It still requires a large amount of feed to raise a fish to proper adult harvest size(salmon farming)
What is a "large amount of feed" in your opinion. The fact is that salmon are extremely efficient eaters - more so than growing beef, pork and chickens.
The method is still more prone to infection due to concentration of fish.
True to a certain extent, but there is a lot missing from that statement. Fish farmers take steps to minimize stress to their fish because a stressed fish can become more prone to the harmful impacts of a pathogen. This is not unlike wild salmon with respect to things like environmental conditions (i.e. water temperature) during migration. Stress of environmental conditions can make the host more prone to the negative impacts of a pathogen. Dissolved oxygen, water temperature, salinity, currents are all monitored on BC fish farms. In addition, fish on BC fish farms are raised in low density environments (15 kg/m3 or less).
They are raising a foreign species which is more prone to disease,you need only to look at Chile's salmon farming industry,which nearly collapsed from virus outbreak.
False. While it is true that diseases like IHN and ISA are particularly deadly to Atlantic Salmon, Pacific Salmon are just as prone to disease as a whole and perhaps much more because they aren't monitored like Atlantic Salmon in aquaculture operations and are not treated by a veterinarians for preventative action. What is important to remember in this is that having a virus doesn't necessarily mean that the related disease will develop. Environmental conditions and stress (Stress can be brought on by environmental conditions like water temperature. Predation wounds and interception fisheries, such as sport, FN and commercial could be included) can determine the impact a pathogen will have on it's host. So when you are talking about how "prone" a particular fish is to disease this needs to be considered.
Let's look at Chile....ISA outbreak kills thousands and thousands of Atlantic Salmon. ISA can be deadly to Atlantic Salmon at all life stages. The virus (ISAv) and disease (ISA) was confirmed and the industry there suffered immensely. Here in BC, the testing that fish farm companies do monitors for viruses like ISAv because they realize the damage it can do. Secondly, if ISA was present on BC fish farms it would be fair to say that mortality would be substantially more (like Chile) than just a few dead silvers. Where is the evidence of mass mortality due to ISA on BC fish farms? Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile. ISAv is a federally reportable virus in Canada.
The fact that most of the companies have a poor track record in other countries,basically abandoning some of there farms when they caused harm to the environment or were problematic.
I applaud Seafood Watch for bringing these issues to the fore,someone needs to watching ,in what can be a poorly regulated industry.
Not in my backyard!
Maybe they don't have a stellar record in other countries; however, to do a fair comparison with companies doing business in other countries and those same companies here you need to look at the regulatory and reporting requirements. I think the concept of Seafood Watch is great for consumers, but at the moment I compare them to a bunch of WWE referees who may not be the most objective and fair bunch. Being hypocrites doesn't help their organization much either. For instance, call Alaskan ranched salmon for what they are instead of trying to market them as something they are not as well as ignore the other potential impacts that they can have on wild salmon.
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The ocean is monoculture? Please explain.
Fish farming is a monoculture environment,lacking diversity .
What is a "large amount of feed" in your opinion. The fact is that salmon are extremely efficient eaters - more so than growing beef, pork and chickens
Sure they are efficient eaters ,but it still takes 5 times their own weight in fishmeal to produce each fish, resulting in a net loss of protein from the ocean.A large amount of feed.
Comparing them to land based vegetable fed animal which is grain or grass fed would be incorrect. Grain and grass itself is a more natural sustainable feed.
False. While it is true that diseases like IHN and ISA are particularly deadly to Atlantic Salmon, Pacific Salmon are just as prone to disease
True in the farm environment .
Pacific salmon will get disease,sure,they are more resilent and resistant to diseases in this natural environment they have been surviving in for hundreds of years.Govt will continue to monitor conditions in the ocean to see what can affect salmon survival ,of course they cant control these conditions.We can only try to minimize human impact on them .
Where is the evidence of mass mortality due to ISA on BC fish farms? Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile. ISAv is a federally reportable virus in Canada.
We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.
Thank god that the govt and industry and organizations like Seawatch and Seachoice are reporting/monitoring this industry in Canada ,its naive to think that the same companies operating in several countries would care for our environment,they have shown their true colours in other countries.
Agreed with you on the good regulatory environment here in Canada,we should have this level of regulation continue.
As for the Alaska Salmon ranching, I still think it is close to its claim of wild fish ,our hatchery system would probably be closer.The Alaskan ranching does produce a good portion of their fishing industries salmon harvest,clearly its needed.
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We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.
As I said, I admire and respect your passion on this issue .. but unless you know something the rest of us don't ... the only virus problems farmed Atlantics in BC and Washington have faced is from IHN, endemic to the Pacific coast. Despite what some have stated (guess who), ISA, the disease, has never been reported in BC or Washington farmed salmon, or any wild fish.
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Fish farming is a monoculture environment,lacking diversity.
Well...I don't think the purpose of their business is to raise multiple species of salmon for diversity sakes. It's farming. That's like saying that a cattle ranch that just has beef cattle lacks diversity. Pacific Salmon are much more difficult to raise in aquaculture operations. Absolon can tell you all about it, but he won't waste his time anymore explaining this again and I don't blame him. There are a few companies raise Pacific Salmon (i.e. Creative raises Chinook Salmon) but the majority here exclusively farm Atlantic Salmon because they much better to raise in aquaculture environments.
Sure they are efficient eaters ,but it still takes 5 times their own weight in fishmeal to produce each fish, resulting in a net loss of protein from the ocean. A large amount of feed. Comparing them to land based vegetable fed animal which is grain or grass fed would be incorrect. Grain and grass itself is a more natural sustainable feed.
Yes they are efficient eaters. It takes approximately 1.2kg of food to produce 1kg of salmon. It used to be higher (i.e. 3kg of feed to produce 1kg of salmon), but advances in nutrition have decreased that. Livestock such as beef, pork and chickens have higher conversion ratios. Why do you think some of the reason are that global aquaculture is growing each year? As global aquaculture grows the fish feed companies the supply fish farms and even fish hatcheries are reducing their reliance on marine sources of feed ingredients such as fish meal and fish oil. These companies are using alternatives such as soybean meal and canola oil.
It would not be incorrect to compare a land based animal fed grain or grass. What do you think is involved in growing feed for terrestrial livestock? It just doesn’t come out from thin air. Don’t be naïve to think that there isn’t impact from growing feed for livestock. Growing things like corn takes water which has to comes from somewhere. With drought conditions in much of the southern US that water is not that abundant. Secondly, if the corn isn’t organically raised it will likely involve chemical treatments (i.e. heribicides/pesiticides) to ensure that the crop is not all lost. A little inconvenient truth is that livestock such as pigs and chickens also have feeds that contain fish meal and fish oils.
True in the farm environment .
Pacific salmon will get disease,sure,they are more resilent and resistant to diseases in this natural environment they have been surviving in for hundreds of years.Govt will continue to monitor conditions in the ocean to see what can affect salmon survival ,of course they cant control these conditions.We can only try to minimize human impact on them.
Pacific Salmon have evolved with the endemic pathogens here over many centuries. Resiliency and resistance may not be the same at all life stages of Pacific Salmon, environments (i.e. freshwater vs. saltwater) and can be different between species. Again, it can be dependent on environment conditions and stress at the time. Pacific Salmon live with pathogens their whole life in some way or another. Not all pathogens will necessarily kill it’s host (i.e. the salmon). Adult Pacific Salmon are more resilient to viruses like IHNv but juveniles like fry are more susceptible to the negative impacts of this virus.
We have had some virus outbreaks here, I will provide samples if you like tommorrow.
We have? Those outbreaks never get posted on this board…lol. Sure, provide samples from here….let’s talk about them; however, a search from this website will show previous discussions on IHN which have been beaten to death.
Thank god that the govt and industry and organizations like Seawatch and Seachoice are reporting/monitoring this industry in Canada ,its naive to think that the same companies operating in several countries would care for our environment,they have shown their true colours in other countries.
Seawatch and Seachoice are not monitoring the industry in Canada. They take in what information they want to filter out and base their recommendations on that. They are not fair in their rating because if they truly were it would rate Alaskan ranched salmon lower than it is now. As for what companies do here and in other countries I think you need to point the finger more at the government agencies that create the rules that govern those companies in the first place instead of the companies themselves. If they have shown their “true colours” in other countries then perhaps the problem resides more with government regulations in those countries and not so much with the company.
As for the Alaska Salmon ranching, I still think it is close to its claim of wild fish ,our hatchery system would probably be closer.The Alaskan ranching does produce a good portion of their fishing industries salmon harvest,clearly its needed.
Not saying that ranched salmon is a totally bad thing, but it shouldn’t be dismissed as having no impact. Close to it’s claim as wild fish? How so? They are artificially propagated, raised in freshwater for part of the time then raised in ocean net-pens (fed the same fish food we have been talking about) for a period of time before being released into the ocean.
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If they have shown their “true colours” in other countries then perhaps the problem resides more with government regulations in those countries and not so much with the company.
Poor ethics , responsible companies dont just do whatever they want, they do what is right for there industry and environment .
Nobody wants these companies doing this here,you cant blame the countries government.In a lot of causes the countries have poorly organized government regulatory bodies,this does happen in other industries as well.
Companies should not take advantage,they should know better and be ethical in there practices.
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We have? Those outbreaks never get posted on this board…lol. Sure, provide samples from here….let’s talk about them;
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/virus-sparks-quarantine-on-b-c-salmon-farm-1.1223458
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/fatal-virus-found-in-more-b-c-salmon-farms-1.902477
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"This is the first time the virus had been detected in farmed fish in the area in more than nine years. The last time, it led to a two-year-long outbreak in which 36 farms were infected. More than 12 million salmon either died or had to be culled."
Well well well another news agency making up stories about fish farms. ::) Steve likely going to come back with a long winded reply that's impossible to follow. Keeping his fingers busy defending the poor practices of shoddy foreign companies. Your all over the place with the farm thing though Steve just ask Dave.
"Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile." I believe you meant they were morally obliged to open a fish farm in a lax environment.
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Go back a bit and read about IHN, the virus common in Pacific's and the one that infected the farmed Atlantic's.
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"More than 12 million salmon either died or had to be culled." +
"the virus common in Pacific" =
lot's more dead fish here.
lot's more pharmaceuticals dumped here.
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http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=902639
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http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=902639
Huh ... who knew ;) perhaps another reason Almo is in hiding.
I used to praise Steve when he posted information so many anti's wouldn't even bother to read, but now, like absolon, I hope he saves his efforts at the keyboard for better things as this game is won.
Get over it; salmon farming in BC is here to stay and rightly so.
Until I see a post that really pisses me off, I'm done with this. Far better stuff, habitat restoration wise, coming up :)
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Poor ethics , responsible companies dont just do whatever they want, they do what is right for there industry and environment .
Nobody wants these companies doing this here,you cant blame the countries government.In a lot of causes the countries have poorly organized government regulatory bodies,this does happen in other industries as well.
Companies should not take advantage,they should know better and be ethical in there practices.
And companies here don't do whatever they want. They do want is right for their industry and the environment. They are in competition with other countries.
Who makes the rules in this circumstance - government or industry? The industry here is probably the most regulated in the world in regards to finish aquaculture. So your worries shouldn't be much.
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"This is the first time the virus had been detected in farmed fish in the area in more than nine years. The last time, it led to a two-year-long outbreak in which 36 farms were infected. More than 12 million salmon either died or had to be culled."
Well well well another news agency making up stories about fish farms. ::) Steve likely going to come back with a long winded reply that's impossible to follow. Keeping his fingers busy defending the poor practices of shoddy foreign companies. Your all over the place with the farm thing though Steve just ask Dave.
"Thirdly, the regulatory environment is much different than Chile." I believe you meant they were morally obliged to open a fish farm in a lax environment.
No this really happened but this is old news and was rehashed many times already. But similar to before anti fish farm critics don't understand IHN or its pathology as it relates to Pacific Salmon and Atlantic Salmon so it's kind of pointless to pursue further. Maybe try learning about IHN more and then we could have a meaningful discussion. I agree with Dave - critics are pretty much dead in the water with their rhetoric and are trying to fire off their last remaining shells as their ship sinks into the abyss.
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No this really happened but this is old news and was rehashed many times already. But similar to before anti fish farm critics don't understand IHN or its pathology as it relates to Pacific Salmon and Atlantic Salmon so it's kind of pointless to pursue further. Maybe try learning about IHN more and then we could have a meaningful discussion. I agree with Dave - critics are pretty much dead in the water with their rhetoric and are trying to fire off their last remaining shells as their ship sinks into the abyss.
I dont look at this as a win or loss issue, I look at as keeping these issues and regulations in the public realm,in the media, to keep pressure on government and industry .
This way we make sure that things are done correctly ,prefer to not stick my head in the sand and trust the large multinational companies to self regulate.To me this would be defeat.
I do understand the IHN virus and status in bc , native salmon resistance to it.
Not sure why people advocate for fish farms, I assume they are in the business.
I just dont see the benefit for Canadians .
Profits and production that are exported out of our country.All the while we are getting the byproducts and pollution. Some say we are filling a need for food production but at what cost.
Would we better to salmon ranch and produce a native species that can be caught in the wild by fishermen,similar to Alaska?
The jobs lost in aquaculture could be made up in the newly created ranching and fishing industries for the benefit of all local people.
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Well if you have some understanding about IHN you know that it's distribution goes beyond BC waters, that it has existed here longer than aquaculture has been here (and will still exist here if net-pen aquaculture was not), that there is no evidence that it is implicated as the cause of Fraser Sockeye productivity, and that it is a federally reportable disease which BC fish farms are mandated by law to follow. Keeping pressure on? I just told you it's a federally reportable disease. Do you know what that means? Look into it. Maybe do a search of IHN on this board as this has been throughly discussed.
It's not in the best in the best interest of fish farmers here not to monitor for or test for IHN because Atlantic Salmon don't have the resistance that Pacific Salmon (adults) have for the virus (IHNv). Since 2003, farmers here have employed new strategies to help combat these outbreaks. One of them is to destroy the fish in their pens if IHN is suspected BEFORE it is confirmed by CFIA. And because you are familiar with IHNv you understand that it is more than likely that wild Pacific Salmon spread it to the Atlantic Salmon?
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Rook, you don't see the benefits of fish farming here because you are not looking hard enough. If you did you will see that their is tremendous benefit for those communities on Vancouver Island. As for ranching salmon here....again do you know what salmon ranching is and have you read up on the concern about its impacts?
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Well if you have some understanding about IHN you know that it's distribution goes beyond BC waters, that it has existed here longer than aquaculture has been here (and will still exist here if net-pen aquaculture was not), that there is no evidence that it is implicated as the cause of Fraser Sockeye productivity, and that it is a federally reportable disease which BC fish farms are mandated by law to follow.
I understand that its a native disease to bc and that our pacific salmon have a natural resistance to it ,the atlantic salmon do not , so tell me who is the intruder then ? Long live the wild pacific salmon !
Do you really think the multinational companies would care about IHN virus if it didnt have the potential to wipe out their salmon crop?
Still not saying this has anything to do with Fraser sockeye, too me thats a cycle of good years and bad years depending on environmental conditions they face .
As far as 'employed new strategies to combat' reads 'antibiotics' which in the end (pardon the pun)are pollution for our coastlines.
Yup keep this issue current and the regulations will be strict, we have our pristine coast to protect.
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I understand that its a native disease to bc and that our pacific salmon have a natural resistance to it ,the atlantic salmon do not , so tell me who is the intruder then ? Long live the wild pacific salmon !
Do you really think the multinational companies would care about IHN virus if it didnt have the potential to wipe out their salmon crop?
Still not saying this has anything to do with Fraser sockeye, too me thats a cycle of good years and bad years depending on environmental conditions they face .
As far as 'employed new strategies to combat' reads 'antibiotics' which in the end (pardon the pun)are pollution for our coastlines.
Yup keep this issue current and the regulations will be strict, we have our pristine coast to protect.
Maybe you missed these.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/10/21/aquaculture-antibiotics-study-needs-more-context/
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/02/27/antibiotics-in-aquaculture-getting-the-facts-straight/
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Yup keep this issue current and the regulations will be strict, we have our pristine coast to protect.
I think decades of misinformation tactics is catching up with the anti salmon farm movement. Wolf wolf!!! lol
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"One of them is to destroy the fish in their pens if IHN is suspected BEFORE it is confirmed by CFIA."
That's after they stuff to the gills with antibiotics right.
Aquaplotza your links to shmarmsalmonfacts.con are hilarious thanks for the chuckle.
quote from shmarm:
"Unfortunately, while this new study looked at five common species, including farmed American catfish, it did not look at any aquaculture-raised American salmonids. This is a glaring oversight"
Actual report:
"In the new study, 27 seafood samples were examined for the presence of antibiotics. The samples represent five of the top 10 most consumed seafood varieties in the U.S.: shrimp, tilapia, catfish, swai, and Atlantic salmon."
"Five antibiotics were present in detectable amounts: oxytetracycline in wild shrimp, farmed tilapia, farmed salmon and farmed trout; 4-epioxytetracycline in farmed salmon, sulfadimethoxine in farmed shrimp, ormetoprim in farmed salmon, and virginiamycin in farmed salmon that had been marketed as antibiotic-free. "
I think the wolf was calling their dirty fish antibiotic free, right. Looks like another coffin nail in the net penners pack of smokes.
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Hey bonehead......antibiotics aren't used to treat viral diseases......they are only used for bacterial infections......get your facts straight.
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So your feeling they wouldn't use them OK. Just like doctors never use them on colds.
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You might think that its a wise idea to use expensive medicine that is guaranteed not to work on fish that are going to be culled anyway but salmon farmers are more than a bit smarter than that.
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Why would a net penner use expensive antibiotics? They would cheap out. I think you already know that and are trying to be a smartypants. When your working at the pen do the math.
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Unfortunately, while this new study looked at five common species, including farmed American catfish, it did not look at any aquaculture-raised American salmonids. This is a glaring oversight, considering that billions of them are raised in aquaculture facilities and released every year on the Pacific coast.
It would be very interesting to see what sort of amounts of antibiotics are used in Pacific salmonid enhancement facilities in Canada and the USA.
Sorry but who's spreading misinformation now, this doesnt say anything relevant about our industry.
I didnt miss these , from the salmon farm paid for spin doctor website , no thanks , I'll read my own info and draw my own conclusions .
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I understand that its a native disease to bc and that our pacific salmon have a natural resistance to it ,the atlantic salmon do not , so tell me who is the intruder then ? Long live the wild pacific salmon !
The "intruder" is one that has no natural resistance - adult wild Pacific Salmon do and have lived with the virus for centuries. Nevertheless, IHNv has caused severe, acute disease in juvenile Pacific salmonids (i.e. fry); however, just the mere presence of the virus does not mean that the host has or will develop the disease (IHN). So what's your point - really?
Do you really think the multinational companies would care about IHN virus if it didnt have the potential to wipe out their salmon crop?
Well, if there was no way that you could ever be hit by a car while walking across an intersection then I guess you wouldn't care too much about it. However, we know that situation isn't really realistic - neither is that fish farm companies are not concerned about IHN outbreaks.
As far as 'employed new strategies to combat' reads 'antibiotics' which in the end (pardon the pun)are pollution for our coastlines.
Yup keep this issue current and the regulations will be strict, we have our pristine coast to protect.
You are misinformed. Antibiotics don't work on viruses, like Absolon said. Sorry...you can't change that fact unless you have powers of divine intervention. If you have those powers it would be better to save them for the Vancouver Canucks if they make it into the Stanley Cup playoffs. Secondly, where did I mention "antibiotics" as part of those new strategies? I didn't. Since the IHN outbreak in 2003, fish farmers here learned that they needed to act more proactively to prevent the spread of the virus to other farms. It can take a couple of weeks to get confirmation of the disease from the CFIA. In the time between the first suspicion based on clinical signs of the IHN and confirmation by the CFIA, IHN infection could have spread from the initial site to multiple sites via workers and/or shared equipment (i.e. boats). The cost and loss of farmed fish could be even more substantial. If IHN is suspected there are procedures in place to destroy the farmed fish even before disease confirmation is received. When fish farms in Canada take this proactive approach they are not eligible for compensation under the Health of Animals Act.
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Why would a net penner use expensive antibiotics? They would cheap out. I think you already know that and are trying to be a smartypants. When your working at the pen do the math.
Time to tap out, TB. :P
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n7y_Vn3L2yU
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All the way to Australia, Tasmania no less to find a farm that has got the rubber stamp from the WWF.
You've been busy
Any farms in b c got this ?
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http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060009321
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this is a way better read from that article. so much information. both supporting and condemning the practice of aquaculture.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/pdfs/2013_PriceandMorris_MarineCageCultureandTheEnvironment%285%29.pdf
and they even quoted morton on page 102. :P
my favourite part...........
" Studies estimate that as much as 75-99%
of the antibiotic administered is released into the
environment (Goldburg and Triplett 1997, Scott
2004, Armstrong et al. 2005, Pittenger et al. 2007).
and another gem
"Studies have found antibiotics present in wild
fish feeding on feces and food originating from
marine farms (Fortt and Buschmann 2007).
This may serve as a pathway for development of
antibacterial resistance within wild populations
(Rigos et al. 2004).
on a side note. pretty interesting how sharks are spotted hanging around farms for 2.5 years and not migrating.... and some countries banning the 'artisinal' fishermen from fishing within x distance of a farm. even though the farms are attracting species.
and as hard as it is to type this I gotta give the BC farms some credit. going from over 600 grams of antibiotics per 1 metric tonne of fish in 1995 ... they are now down to just about 100g of antibiotics per metric tonne (2008) which might be less now...
but that still 75% to 99% going into the environment. according to ocean wise (http://www.oceanwise.ca/seafood/salmon/atlantic-salmon) 85,000 tonnes of salmon were produced in BC last year.... so 8500kg's of antibiotics in one year. so 18,739 lbs of drugs in a year dumped into the ocean
had to edit the oceanwise link
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http://www.davidsuzuki.org/publications/downloads/2005/Shellfish_Summary.pdf
I don't know why these guy's are not taken to task over years of poor practices.
Shoe's likely to dispute the antibiotic thing again. But that's his oyster.
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this is a way better read from that article. so much information. both supporting and condemning the practice of aquaculture.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2013/pdfs/2013_PriceandMorris_MarineCageCultureandTheEnvironment%285%29.pdf
and they even quoted morton on page 102. :P
my favourite part...........
" Studies estimate that as much as 75-99%
of the antibiotic administered is released into the
environment (Goldburg and Triplett 1997, Scott
2004, Armstrong et al. 2005, Pittenger et al. 2007).
and another gem
"Studies have found antibiotics present in wild
fish feeding on feces and food originating from
marine farms (Fortt and Buschmann 2007).
This may serve as a pathway for development of
antibacterial resistance within wild populations
(Rigos et al. 2004).
on a side note. pretty interesting how sharks are spotted hanging around farms for 2.5 years and not migrating.... and some countries banning the 'artisinal' fishermen from fishing within x distance of a farm. even though the farms are attracting species.
and as hard as it is to type this I gotta give the BC farms some credit. going from over 600 grams of antibiotics per 1 metric tonne of fish in 1995 ... they are now down to just about 100g of antibiotics per metric tonne (2008) which might be less now...
but that still 75% to 99% going into the environment. according to ocean wise (http://www.oceanwise.ca/seafood/salmon/atlantic-salmon) 85,000 tonnes of salmon were produced in BC last year.... so 8500kg's of antibiotics in one year. so 18,739 lbs of drugs in a year dumped into the ocean
had to edit the oceanwise link
banx, what are your thoughts on how many kg of antibiotics are flushed down the toilet, through urine, feces and emptying pill bottles from BC residents in one year?
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banx, please add to my argument all the antibiotic laden feces from beef, pork and poultry farms that is spread on virtually all the agricultural land in the Fraser Valley, and probably everywhere else farming is viable.
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that domestic disposal is far worse for sure. especially in scale..... but you have more control over an industry, especially a smaller sector one such as the farms compared to people at home..... however, you do see commercials now where you can bring in your old drugs to be disposed of properly.
this is american....."That calculation produced an estimate of at least 250 million pounds of annual drug waste from hospitals and long-term care centers, further complicated by the fact experts say drugs might account for only up to half of pharmaceutical waste, while the rest is packaging..........Few of the country's 5,700 hospitals and 45,000 long-term care homes keep data on the pharmaceutical waste they generate. Based on a small sample, though, the AP was able to project an annual national estimate of at least 250 million pounds of pharmaceuticals and contaminated packaging, with no way to separate out the drug volume."
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/pharmawater_site/sept14a.html
thats only hospitals etc... didn't include homes. :-\
I would think its safe to say that canada would use roughly 1/5? I think its being generous... so 50,000,000 or so pounds
farm usuage is small obviously on scale, its less than 1%.... but I feel it's large in the grand scheme of things..... think about it, a handful of farms in BC deposit enough antibiotics into the ocean that we are measuring it in metric tonnes, annually. and that in itself is large enough to be measured against an entire countries population of around 30,000,000 people. handful vs 30 million.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/aug/08/drugs-toilet-pharmaceutical-pollution
that was good.
water treatment helps take the 'edge off' so to speak and so does having the antibiotics metabolised....coming out a hole or hose.
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http://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/does-milk-contain-growth-hormones-and-antibiotics/
http://www.chickenfarmers.ca/what-matters-to-us/antibiotics/
http://www.spca.bc.ca/welfare/farm-animal-welfare/farm-animals/truth-about-antibiotic-free.html
In April 2014, Health Canada announced that use of medically-important antibiotics to improve growth or production of farm animals will be phased-out over the next three years (by 2017).
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Need to make a little distinction here because some facts are getting missed. Some farmers may give their livestock antibiotics as a means to prevent disease, enhance growth or whatever. This is what Health Canada wants to phase out (i.e. the non-therapeutic use). On the other hand, antibiotics used on BC fish farms are used to treat disease - not given as some preventive measure to healthy fish, not used to promote growth and not used to improve feed efficiency. Secondly, antibiotics on BC fish farms are always prescribed by a veterinarian and are not given out frivolously.
Do I wish antibiotics were never used in any agricultural sector? Sure. Do I wish I never have to use antibiotics if I get sick? Sure. Do I enjoy my occasional A&W Papa Burger and cheese made with beef without antibiotics. Sure...but on a side note, it is great that fast food restaurants are using beef without antibiotics, but their marketing game fizzles out when the real numbers and facts are brought in; like the fact that each 245 g A&W Papa Burger with cheese has 630 calories, 16 grams of saturated fat and 1150 grams of Sodium. Also, by law all farm animals in Canada, including farmed fish, must be free of antibiotic residues before they enter the human food system.
With every decision there are trade-offs. If agriculture as a whole didn't need antibiotics they probably would be happy not having to budget those in and spend the money elsewhere; however, it must be hard to raise animals to market size on a big scale if they are negatively impacted by a bacterial infection. Obviously, there are farmers that don't use antibiotics and are certified as such which is great and all the power to them, but I don't think it comes about without a cost or some trade-off.
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Years of what? :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/blog/
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Got the cadmium blues?
http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1276881145.pdf
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Interesting response tb ::); other than a deflection of the subject, what has this to do with BC and Washington state salmon farms?
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banx, please add to my argument all the antibiotic laden feces from beef, pork and poultry farms that is spread on virtually all the agricultural land in the Fraser Valley, and probably everywhere else farming is viable.
What were you saying Dave ::) doh!
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I should of added that health Canada seems to be OK with high amounts of cadmium in oysters so imagine the testing done on other seafood. :P
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anx, please add to my argument all the antibiotic laden feces from beef, pork and poultry farms that is spread on virtually all the agricultural land in the Fraser Valley, and probably everywhere else farming is viable.
Yes ,but these are all domestic animals that have been farmed for centuries.There is no wild species at risk of contamination.
On top of that the discharge of antibiotics on land does not discharge directly into the water ,which by its nature will spread much more quickly than if were to seep into ground water on land.
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Got the cadmium blues?
http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1276881145.pdf
"Funding cuts that occurred through the mid‐80’s to date severely limited the ability
of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to access operating funds, especially for
research that might generate results not necessarily friendly to current government
policies."
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Yes ,but these are all domestic animals that have been farmed for centuries.There is no wild species at risk of contamination.
On top of that the discharge of antibiotics on land does not discharge directly into the water ,which by its nature will spread much more quickly than if were to seep into ground water on land.
Most ocean pollution begins on land.
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/pollution.html
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The red herring population is alive and well.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-suzuki/farmed-salmon_b_5235800.html
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A fun find :)
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10428288
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/sustainable-fisheries-partnership-study-disagrees-with-seafood-watch-rankings/
"Yes, you read that right: Alaska ranks second, behind British Columbia."
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How's the oyster farm, or the fish farm Bawby. Why not just post that crap to like minded websites. People sport fishing are probably are not interested in your bias.
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I'm interested in Bob's posts but then again I don't fish much anymore :D
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and you live by some farms, so that's OK.
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http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/285276971.html?mobile=true
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Chris is shirking his duties so I thought I would post what he missed ... ;)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/12/29/alexandra-morton-jumps-on-the-anti-vaccine-crazy-train-with-funding-campaign-that-insults-donors/
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Chris is shirking his duties so I thought I would post what he missed ... ;)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/12/29/alexandra-morton-jumps-on-the-anti-vaccine-crazy-train-with-funding-campaign-that-insults-donors/
We choose to remain anonymous because we do not wish to open our personal lives up to attack, and a small group of anti-salmon farming activists have shown they are willing to use nasty and personal attacks to try and shame and intimidate people who support salmon farming.
As well, we choose to remain anonymous because we want this blog to be about science, not a debate over anyone’s credentials.
We receive no funding from the salmon farming industry
SS???lol
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Yeah, right...lol. I actually wouldn't mind some extra funding right now to pay off all the Disney's "Frozen" stuff I bought my kids this year.
Hey, if some folks want to part with their money by giving to this negative advertising campaign (so we are told) that's fine, but they shouldn't be duped by thinking they are helping wild salmon. There are other more productive ways to fund wild salmon protection and enhancement where the results are transparent as well as how the money is spent. Morton is basically going the Don Staniford route of negative attack advertising, but unlike Don, she trying to be more careful as to avoid possible legal implications.
Hey, here is an example of a worthwhile thing to fund:
http://www.gofundme.com/Kendras-trip
(the funding goal has been reached)
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Fisherbob will like this. http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/charitable-fraser-institute-received-43-million-foreign-funding-2000
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Institute. :)
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/12/29/alexandra-morton-jumps-on-the-anti-vaccine-crazy-train-with-funding-campaign-that-insults-donors/
Looks interesting :)
http://www.oceansidestar.com/news/what-experts-know-about-the-strait-1.1696607
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/craig-kasberg-alaska-seafood-source/
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Doc Morton would be better off being involved in projects like this in my opinion. I have lost interest in riding the crazy train. :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=62VIxLWgG34
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Fisherbob, having seen the number of times you post something tells me you have an 'interest' in the subject and that is not going to change anytime soon.
By the way Bob, I'm curious when the last time you went fishing was and what rivers you fish on?
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On a side note about BOb, he may be ( emphasis on may) be the only fish farmer to give money to Morton. Certainly a nice seagull feather in his hat. :)
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/sea-lice-pesticides-used-in-salmon-industry-may-be-hazardous-1.2894258
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A look back. http://youtu.be/PhxQBSU-npw?list=PLAvoaPJJUqyH2USAgbLMYUlpBfc7mB0fD
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On a side note about BOb, he may be ( emphasis on may) be the only fish farmer to give money to Morton. Certainly a nice seagull feather in his hat. :)
Back speculating I see. Keep up the hard work TB. :)
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I don't think you gave any money to Morton if that's what you mean. Your LinkedIn profile says the rest. If you were not such a strong advocate for the dirty fish farming business you might have not been caught out. But you post on those sites as much as you post here. :o
Great post Chris good to see CBC keeping the pirates in the news. Pretty soon they will be killing everything off in the waters where they want to have a net pen.
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I don't think you gave any money to Morton if that's what you mean. Your LinkedIn profile says the rest. If you were not such a strong advocate for the dirty fish farming business you might have not been caught out. But you post on those sites as much as you post here. :o
Great post Chris good to see CBC keeping the pirates in the news. Pretty soon they will be killing everything off in the waters where they want to have a net pen.
Sorry to bust your bubble TB. I do not have a LinkedIn profile lol. Dream up some thing new with a better story line before patting your self on the back. Perhaps some day I will catch up to the number of times you have posted. :)
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A look back. http://youtu.be/PhxQBSU-npw?list=PLAvoaPJJUqyH2USAgbLMYUlpBfc7mB0fD
Keep looking back Chris as anti salmon farmers here in BC and Washington don't have much to look forward to in the future. ;D
A 4 year old video ... since that first aired we have had record pink and chinook returns on VI ( some stocks right beside the farms), near record sockeye returns from the Shuswap and Harrison components, and no, that is zero, documented impacts on wild salmon from fish farms. Oh, and add in that reputable and qualified (that's the important word here) Canadian and American scientists report ISA has not been found anywhere on the Pacific coast.
Keep fighting though as some of us enjoy the comedy you post :)
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Keep looking back Chris as anti salmon farmers here in BC and Washington don't have much to look forward to in the future. ;D
A 4 year old video ... since that first aired we have had record pink and chinook returns on VI ( some stocks right beside the farms), near record sockeye returns from the Shuswap and Harrison components, and no, that is zero, documented impacts on wild salmon from fish farms. Oh, and add in that reputable and qualified (that's the important word here) Canadian and American scientists report ISA has not been found anywhere on the Pacific coast.
Keep fighting though as some of us enjoy the comedy you post :)
Another march planned for this year, hope you can join us and I can capture another picture of you with Alex. ;D ;D Maybe join us at the Superstore tomorrow where you can talk to Eddy about some of your concerns, would make for a good debate.
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Sorry bud, won't be there but I bet the usual suspects will 8)
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A look back. http://youtu.be/PhxQBSU-npw?list=PLAvoaPJJUqyH2USAgbLMYUlpBfc7mB0fD
Nice music...nice scenery...That's about it.
4 years ago Morton was a rock star.....now she is just a rock. Her prophecies of doom and gloom are now as popular as Betamax. Other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science while she is launching useless court action which will do squat for wild salmon.
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Nice music...nice scenery...That's about it.
4 years ago Morton was a rock star.....now she is just a rock. Her prophecies of doom and gloom are now as popular as Betamax. Other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science while she is launching useless court action which will do squat for wild salmon.
One thing you and others miss as I have stated befire I feel it is because of Alex "other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science." That in its self is important, that is while there is not interference in their work from some governments.
Maybe I should not be worried but with the action of the current government it does give one something to be concerned about.
PS
Thanks for taking the time to watch the video, I certainly enjoyed being part of it over the whole trip from Hope to Vancouver.
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You will see by this: http://nsapes.ca/acar-press-release-january-8th-2015 Alex and many others on our coast are not the only ones concered about FF. The other side of Canada is also having concerns.
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One thing you and others miss as I have stated befire I feel it is because of Alex "other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science." That in its self is important, that is while there is not interference in their work from some governments.
Maybe I should not be worried but with the action of the current government it does give one something to be concerned about.
PS
Thanks for taking the time to watch the video, I certainly enjoyed being part of it over the whole trip from Hope to Vancouver.
How do the actions of someone who is ignorant of Pacific Salmon, doesn't understand viruses and diseases, professes doom and gloom predictions that don't come true and slags reputable scientists get other researchers to collaborate together on these issues. They don't. Morton wants nothing to do with collaborating with anyone unless they tow the party line regarding her theories. Those that are involved in this research recognize this and consequently she is on the outside looking in.
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How do the actions of someone who is ignorant of Pacific Salmon, doesn't understand viruses and diseases, professes doom and gloom predictions that don't come true and slags reputable scientists get other researchers to collaborate together on these issues. They don't. Morton wants nothing to do with collaborating with anyone unless they tow the party line regarding her theories. Those that are involved in this research recognize this and consequently she is on the outside looking in.
Awaiting your comments on the post above yours or are you avoiding it? :D :D
Another great rally today, video later, hope it is not slagged to much. ::)
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Awaiting your comments on the post above yours or are you avoiding it? :D :
There are no comments necessary (but I bet he will :D) as the issues on both coasts is like comparing apples and oranges, for so many reasons, all of which have been discussed here many times over.
Do some research, or easier, read what is sent you ;)
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"other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science." long before Doc Morton came to Canada from the US to start her crusade from what I now see Chris. Prove that one wrong if you can. :)
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There are no comments necessary (but I bet he will :D) as the issues on both coasts is like comparing apples and oranges, for so many reasons, all of which have been discussed here many times over.
Do some research, or easier, read what is sent you ;)
If you have time could you relate the reasons as I canot remember them, thanks.
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"other researchers are working together and collaborating doing real science." long before Doc Morton came to Canada from the US to start her crusade from what I now see Chris. Prove that one wrong if you can. :)
From what I understand Alex was in Canada for some time before the FF issue reared its ugly head.
Also at one time she thought fish farms were going to be Ok.
"Alexandra Bryant Morton is a biologist who settled in Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis First Nation in British Columbia, Canada to study wild orca (killer whales) in 1984. Morton made her home in Echo Bay - a community without roads, electricity or stores.
In 1987 salmon farms moved into the region. At first Morton thought they were a good idea, but within a few years the changes to the archipelago became a concern to the people in the region.
Since then Alexandra Morton has published extensively on the impact of salmon farms on whales and salmon. As the industry grew into 27 Norwegian salmon farms, her community died, the school closed, whales left, toxic algae blooms began, Atlantic salmon were found in Pacific rivers, sea lice infestations of wild salmon began and Morton dedicated her life to protecting her home from salmon farms."
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Awaiting your comments on the post above yours or are you avoiding it? :D :D
Another great rally today, video later, hope it is not slagged to much. ::)
I did have one, but I deleted it because it gets tiresome bringing up the Cohen Final Report. Funny how activists like Morton are now looking at Eastern Canada and Norway to rebuild her church again, and ignoring the findings and recommendations from a report based on issues here.
As always, I am looking forward to the video. Make sure it is after the Seahawks game because it could be a toss up which one I will want to watch more if you post it now...lol. :P
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What has she got right and what has she done to enhance wild salmon Chris? I feel a the same about donating and my investments. I will stop donating to a lost cause the same as I would change investments.
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From what I understand Alex was in Canada for some time before the FF issue reared its ugly head.
Also at one time she thought fish farms were going to be Ok.
"Alexandra Bryant Morton is a biologist who settled in Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis First Nation in British Columbia, Canada to study wild orca (killer whales) in 1984. Morton made her home in Echo Bay - a community without roads, electricity or stores.
In 1987 salmon farms moved into the region. At first Morton thought they were a good idea, but within a few years the changes to the archipelago became a concern to the people in the region.
Since then Alexandra Morton has published extensively on the impact of salmon farms on whales and salmon. As the industry grew into 27 Norwegian salmon farms, her community died, the school closed, whales left, toxic algae blooms began, Atlantic salmon were found in Pacific rivers, sea lice infestations of wild salmon began and Morton dedicated her life to protecting her home from salmon farms."
Yeah rrriiight, toxic algae blooms never happened until fish farms showed up...lol. BS
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Some history for you Chris. Enjoy :)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/timeline_atlantics.pdf
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If you have time could you relate the reasons as I canot remember them, thanks.
::)
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::)
Disappointed. ::)
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I did have one, but I deleted it because it gets tiresome bringing up the Cohen Final Report. Funny how activists like Morton are now looking at Eastern Canada and Norway to rebuild her church again, and ignoring the findings and recommendations from a report based on issues here.
As always, I am looking forward to the video. Make sure it is after the Seahawks game because it could be a toss up which one I will want to watch more if you post it now...lol. :P
Enjoyed the Seahawk game too, will get on the video now, hope to have it for your viewing with your breaky. ;D ;D
Good football game by the way. ;D
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For SS, make sure you watch the coments at the end of the clip. We sang the Salmon song for Dave too, enjoy. ;D :D
http://youtu.be/WDJJK0tFznI
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Yup, catchy tune for sure.
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http://www.thebreachfilm.com/portfolio/the-breach-video/#
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For SS, make sure you watch the coments at the end of the clip. We sang the Salmon song for Dave too, enjoy. ;D :D
http://youtu.be/WDJJK0tFznI
I guess none of them read Cohen either. Great drumming though.
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For Chris to enjoy. :)
http://www.the-philosophical-fish.ca/archives/23862
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For Chris to enjoy. :)
http://www.the-philosophical-fish.ca/archives/23862
Thanks too bad the chap does not post his name or did I miss seeing it?
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Pretty sure that was written by Paige Ackerman, a woman I used to work with. Great read Bob!
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Pretty sure that was written by Paige Ackerman, a woman I used to work with. Great read Bob!
Another FOC employee to deal with. ;D ;D ;D
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Not FOC .. either SFU or UBC. She did a lot of the genetic work for the Cultus Lake Sockeye recovery program. A very, very bright lady.
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Not FOC .. either SFU or UBC. She did a lot of the genetic work for the Cultus Lake Sockeye recovery program. A very, very bright lady.
Thanks, more reading for you.
http://nsapes.ca/massive-support-new-aquaculture-regs
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http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/242003/salmon-industry-expansion-in-doubt-after-ruling
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Still, 3 sites is an expansion, not a shut down. :). Keep up the good work Chris.
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2015/01/12/marine-harvest-confirms-suspected-escape/
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Sounds as nasty as the millions of Atlantics that were released in the pacific for sport fishing since the early 1900s. :) And btw Chris, any farmed animal or fowl has a period of time after medication before consumtion. Just saying. ::)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/timeline_atlantics.pdf
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http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2015/01/12/marine-harvest-confirms-suspected-escape/
This is prime example of why you need to get up to speed my friend ... Pacific coast Atlantic salmon farmers don't have the problems of the East coast, that is possible escaped fish breeding with wild Atlantic's because here there are none. Atlantic's breeding with Pacific's results in two happy fish but no offspring ;D
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Sounds as nasty as the millions of Atlantics that were released in the pacific for sport fishing since the early 1900s. :) And btw Chris, any farmed animal or fowl has a period of time after medication before consumtion. Just saying. ::)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/research-resources/timeline_atlantics.pdf
You keep bringing up the past,getting bad as the BC Liberals talking about the nineties when the NDP were in power. ::)
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This is prime example of why you need to get up to speed my friend ... Pacific coast Atlantic salmon farmers don't have the problems of the East coast, that is possible escaped fish breeding with wild Atlantic's because here there are none. Atlantic's breeding with Pacific's results in two happy fish but no offspring ;D
Starting to sound like 3 fish van Dongen. Now I am bringing up the past. http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2003/2fish.htm
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Starting to sound like 3 fish van Dongen. Now I am bringing up the past. http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2003/2fish.htm
You may be right Chris. I kind of sound like you. Cant suck as many people in if they know what happened in the past. A little history digging never hurts my friend. :)
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You keep bringing up the past,getting bad as the BC Liberals talking about the nineties when the NDP were in power. ::)
The only thing wrong with the past is not knowing or learning from it Chris. I learned my lesson from donating to a person that never gets it right and is far from open about where her donations go. Morton should lead the way if she expects every one else to be open and honest.
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Pretty sure that was written by Paige Ackerman, a woman I used to work with. Great read Bob!
Pretty certain also. Smart cookie. Definitely not the person Morton would want to debate. It would be like me challenging Lebron James to a game of one-on-one basketball. Unfortunately, this doesn't resonate with the anti-fish farm followers because Morton is seen as larger than life to them.
If Morton is looking to debate why doesn't she come back onto this site and talk to us mere mortals who are not doctors like she is? Instead she took off after my response to her post on PRV and hasn't posted here since. Disappeared like that Quesnel Lake sampling donation money.
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Pretty certain also. Smart cookie. Definitely not the person Morton would want to debate. It would be like me challenging Lebron James to a game of one-on-one basketball. Unfortunately, this doesn't resonate with the anti-fish farm followers because Morton is seen as larger than life to them.
If Morton is looking to debate why doesn't she come back onto this site and talk to us mere mortals who are not doctors like she is? Instead she took off after my response to her post on PRV and hasn't posted here since. Disappeared like that Quesnel Lake sampling donation money.
Of course talking to people whose names you do not know is not always the best senario. People hid behind this fact on some social media sites and forums like this, at least I have mine out there for better or worse.
Of course it makes one famous. ::) ;D ;D :D :D
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Of course talking to people whose names you do not know is not always the best senario. People hid behind this fact on some social media sites and forums like this, at least I have mine out there for better or worse.
Of course it makes one famous. ::) ;D ;D :D :D
Doesnt seem to work in Doc Mortons case at all. What has she got right Chris? Perhaps if Morton was more transparent about her work and funds she could be trusted in what she preaches. :)
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Of course talking to people whose names you do not know is not always the best senario. People hid behind this fact on some social media sites and forums like this, at least I have mine out there for better or worse.
Of course it makes one famous. ::) ;D ;D :D :D
Well talking to people whose names you do not know is probably not the best thing to do if you are on some dating site or they plan to meet up with you in some dark alley in Surrey for the first time and you have never met them before. If the anonymous person is just being abusive and threatening and is not bringing anything to the table to discuss then I agree that talking to those people is not a good thing to do. However, not sure how your concerns apply if the individual, anonymous or not, is talking about the issues and is not being abusive to the point of being kicked off a forum - especially if the individual has knowledge on the topic to contribute.
Personally, I think Morton just uses that as an excuse not to engage the other person because she is afraid of coming up against someone that will call her on what she has been saying. Her Facebook page and her blog are generally big love-ins where she has the power to remove any post she feels is not worthy; whereas, on fishing forums and news media sites she has no power to edit or remove posts. When she is on here she is a member like anyone else, even the anonymous individuals, and there is no way she can control what is said. Additionally, she is more comfortable on sites where there is ample support for her. She is more than willing to feed the propaganda to her followers from her blog or FB page and have them take the bullet on the sites she can't control. She can keep her hands cleaner that way. That is why she uses that excuse.
When Morton was last here on this board nobody to my knowledge was being abusive to her. However, there were questions raised by some of us as well as some rebuttal to what she posted. Instead, she took off and left it up to her followers to answer for her. If her theories are so correct she should have no problem discussing them on places like this. Right now, Morton is preaching to the converted and staunch supporters which really is not very productive. The population base she is unable to crack are the educated ones (including practical experience)that actually know something about Pacific Salmon, pathogens, diseases, habitat, etc....as well as something about aquaculture.
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Of course talking to people whose names you do not know is not always the best scenario. People hid behind this fact on some social media sites and forums like this, at least I have mine out there for better or worse.
Of course it makes one famous. ::) ;D ;D :D :D
So true Chris.
She smart enough to not want to debate with fish farmers who deny that they are were etc. She got that right. Good on her for not wasting her time coming back here. These anti Morton people are making her sound like a goddess for crying out loud. A legend for decades to come thanks to all the things attributed to her. She doesn't have to reply here they do that for her like minions under her spell. Fascinating really. Can't wait to see what they post next. :P
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Just for you TB. Enjoy the read. :)
http://www.fishupdate.com/canadian-fish-farming-making-headway/
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Short but interesting. :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL8D5CCA9B68FD596F&index=8&v=2Jm-NghKyuA
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Short but interesting. :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL8D5CCA9B68FD596F&index=8&v=2Jm-NghKyuA
Of course they will say this, out of the ocean altogether and then there will no environmental impact. ;D ;D
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Of course they will say this, out of the ocean altogether and then there will no environmental impact. ;D ;D
Really ? ::)
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http://www.ipolitics.ca/2015/01/15/meet-the-real-stephen-harper/
"Of course he doesn’t. He didn’t want a factual record on endangered polar bears or salmon farm pollution. And remember, this is the guy who didn’t mind selling asbestos to other countries when it was being treated as a deadly carcinogen here in Canada."
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Since you want to paddle that route Chris and you seem to be doing a lot of gunnel rubbing lately. :)
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/are-polar-bears-endangered.html
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Of course they will say this, out of the ocean altogether and then there will no environmental impact. ;D ;D
Let's shut down recreational, commercial and First Nations fisheries also and then there will be no environmental impact there either. Let's stop harassing fish by impaling them with hooks and playing them until exhaustion for our selfish benefit or intercepting them in mixed stock commercial fisheries. More wild salmon on the spawning grounds - sounds great, eh?
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This is why one is concened about what we hear from the governmnet about FF, can one deny that?
"Members of the union have complained bitterly about what they claim is the muzzling of federal scientists and political interference with their work."
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/11/07/canada-scientists-harper_n_6124598.html
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Old news. Do you anything more up to date?
I know you have been disappointed in those you have backed politically... they did not live up to your expectations or perhaps, possibly, they found faults in your arguments ..
Personally, for the most part, I have trust in the people we elected to make these decisions, and the government people mandated to enforce them.
Call me naïve if you like but at some time, imo, we have to let the officials we put in place do their jobs.
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Old news. Do you anything more up to date?
I know you have been disappointed in those you have backed politically... they did not live up to your expectations or perhaps, possibly, they found faults in your arguments ..
Personally, for the most part, I have trust in the people we elected to make these decisions, and the government people mandated to enforce them.
Call me naïve if you like but at some time, imo, we have to let the officials we put in place do their jobs.
Unfortunately the 2 major parties presently in power in Canada, one being in our province will probably go down in history as the worse every when it comes to looking after our environment and bringing in bills to further their agenda.
Not sure why they were elected last time, maybe because their is a lot of naive people that voted them in?
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Not sure why they were elected last time, maybe because their is a lot of naive people that voted them in?
It could also be that there is few naive people that did not vote them in. :)
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Any relation to the doc?
http://www.upworthy.com/l-ron-hubbards-great-grandson-spills-the-family-secrets-on-how-scientology-started-eek?c=reccon3
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http://bellona.org/news/uncategorized/2009-01-dyes-in-salmon
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http://bellona.org/news/uncategorized/2009-01-dyes-in-salmon
Thanks interesting, I like the comment at the end of the article.
"What a load of manure! Eating astaxanthin in farmed salmon DOES make your eyes go bad and I'm living proof. My eyes were just fine until I started eating that garbage. Now, seven years later, I can't even drive without glasses. I had 20/20 vision my entire life until then." ;D ;D ;D
Going out shortly to catch a wild fish for supper. ;D
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My eyes were just fine until I hit 45. (Typical age for body parts to start dropping off from what I was told from "real" educated people at the time.) "Could" have been from eating too many carrots that I have to drive with glasses since then LOL. Oh, and all the prawns, lobster, and all the wild salmon I ate back then. Our eyes go later in life. Sad, but a fact of life. How is your vision Chris? Mine has not changed since I was 45. Still hold the ole class 1. How I wish to be young and "naive" again Chirs, and at the same time happy to be old and learn from the past. BTW Chris, since it seems you like to stir the bs pot, you may want to try licking your spoon. :)
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Thanks interesting, I like the comment at the end of the article.
"What a load of manure! Eating astaxanthin in farmed salmon DOES make your eyes go bad and I'm living proof. My eyes were just fine until I started eating that garbage. Now, seven years later, I can't even drive without glasses. I had 20/20 vision my entire life until then." ;D ;D ;D
Going out shortly to catch a wild fish for supper. ;D
Hope you release that wild fish 8)
When you do bonk a hatchery, remember that fish was fed basically the same diet as would be fed to a farmed Atlantic, land based or sea pen raised. Remember also, the eggs from your hatchery steelhead were treated with formaldehyde to prevent fungal infections and the subsequent fry/parr were most likely treated with an antibiotic sometime during their one year stay at the Chilliwack River hatchery :o
Enjoy your fish when you catch it, as am I; good buddy just dropped one off ;D
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Hope you release that wild fish 8)
When you do bonk a hatchery, remember that fish was fed basically the same diet as would be fed to a farmed Atlantic, land based or sea pen raised. Remember also, the eggs from your hatchery steelhead were treated with formaldehyde to prevent fungal infections and the subsequent fry/parr were most likely treated with an antibiotic sometime during their one year stay at the Chilliwack River hatchery :o
Enjoy your fish when you catch it, as am I; good buddy just dropped one off ;D
Well I lost it this afternoon but did not like having it break of and lose my Maple Leaf Drennan.
Of course your comparison above does not hold much water as the steelhead are out on their own in the ocean for 2 plus years while the net penned fish spend their whole life in a pen, that is unless they escape which happens a number of times. :P
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Time to replace your line perhaps? how old is it ;D ;D ;D
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Time to replace your line perhaps? how old is it ;D ;D ;D
New but there was no way to stop the fish in the fast water, too big to stop too. ;D
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Going out shortly to catch a wild fish for supper. ;D
And you are trying to tell me how to save wild salmon LOL. ::)
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And you are trying to telling me how to save wild salmon LOL. ::)
Just checking to see who reads my posts thoroughly, you win first prize. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/lack-of-funding-threatens-salmon-hatchery-impact-research-in-alaska/
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Perhaps Almo and Eddy will look into this ;D
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More work for the Doc. :)
http://3blmedia.com/News/BC-Celebrates-North-Americas-First-ASC-Certified-Salmon-Farm
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More work for the Doc. :)
http://3blmedia.com/News/BC-Celebrates-North-Americas-First-ASC-Certified-Salmon-Farm
Really :-\ Why would anyone care about dirty type fishfarmers patting other dirty type fishfarmers on the bum bawb. Except you constantly on their twitterverse.
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Really :-\ Why would anyone care about dirty type fishfarmers patting other dirty type fishfarmers on the bum bawb. Except you constantly on their twitterverse.
I thought this kind of ruling is what you and other anti salmon farmers wanted ??? How can you be upset with this?? What don't you like?
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I thought this kind of ruling is what you and other anti salmon farmers wanted ??? How can you be upset with this?? What don't you like?
"◦It helps farmers access new markets, and helps protect existing markets by maintaining ‘buyers preference'."
Who's upset :-\ ????? their just putting a new spin on dirty project. I do hope that somewhere down the road it actually has some other goal. Other than providing the dirty fishfarmers some propaganda that maybe one of their farms here may be trying to do something positive. Or you have a choice of their premium ASC certified fish or cheap out on the dirty stuff. But I know you like the farmed salmon???? Or somehow feel threatened by criticism of lousy fish farming practices. Who knows who cares. Now you have a choice I guess. Will you part with the cash that's another matter.
On a positive though at one time fishfarmer bawb did give some money to Morton so maybe he's backed up his cash wagon to these ASC guy's. The sun also rises, as it was said.
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"◦It helps farmers access new markets, and helps protect existing markets by maintaining ‘buyers preference'."
Looks to me like it will also help the Atlantic salmon farmers in Washington. You know,,,the guys we do not hear much about but share the same back yard. :)
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More work for the Doc. :)
http://3blmedia.com/News/BC-Celebrates-North-Americas-First-ASC-Certified-Salmon-Farm
These types of certifications are fairly vague - it usually acknowledges that the firm is following procedures that they themselves develop and conforms to universal standards such as record keeping.
The link here doesn't really give much information on what the standard hopes to achieve.
The ASC website gives a little more info on this:
http://www.asc-aqua.org/index.cfm?act=update.detail&uid=266&lng=1
The salmon standard aims to address the key negative environmental and social impacts of salmon farming. It requires unprecedented levels of transparency on farm performance data, sourcing of feed ingredients, disease transmission between farms and the wild salmon population, controlling escapes into the wild, use of therapeutics and antibiotics, site impacts and labour issues on farms.
The actual checklist used in the audit is located here:
http://www.asc-aqua.org/upload/ASC_Audit%20Preparation%20Checklist%20-%20Salmon_v1.1.pdf
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http://youtu.be/TE6TSBh5Dj0
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Salmon farming started off the coast of BC in 2009? Good job, Eddie.
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Well that was factual :o Someone should explain to Eddie that the Atlantic salmon sold by Costco are imported from Chile ....
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Not sure if this will interest anyone. https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/941847992493269/
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Don't do facebook so I guess I'll never know :'(
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Don't do facebook so I guess I'll never know :'(
You can read if you click on the link. ::) ;D ;D
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Not so. Without joining fb how can I read that link?
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You can read if you click on the link. ::) ;D ;D
Must be a mystical link to us none face book users. Do we have to donate first? ::)
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Must be a mystical link to us none face book users. Do we have to donate first? ::)
Of course you are behind the times on this too.lol
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For the 2 that are not on FB, 2 of only a few behind the times. ;D ;D
This is GROUND-BREAKING Norway is saying that their salmon farming farming industry needs to move onto land for its OWN good. OK - sounds good lets make this happen and thank you to all the Norwegian fishermen who have not let the industry get away with the escape of up to a million farmed salmon and steelhead into Norwegian fjords. They have caused this conversation from Norway.
- Norway must get facilities on land
- Norway risk being ousted as farming nation if it does not open up for more farming land, according to the Directorate of Fisheries.
Nova Sea at Lovund - Fisheries proposes in the report to give deregulation of free licenses of salmon, trout and rainbow trout on land. - Photo: Nova Sea /
Fisheries proposes in the report to give deregulation of free licenses of salmon, trout and rainbow trout on land.
Photo: Nova Sea
Journalist Øystein Nygård oysteinnygard
Byline Photo Sigurd Steinum
Journalist Sigurd Steinum steinums
More about farming in Norway
Published 01.30.2015, at. 13.09
The conclusion can be read in the new report "salmon on land" .
Fisheries proposes in the report to give deregulation of free licenses of salmon, trout and rainbow trout on land.
Like the sea sites, paying onshore today a fee of up to 70 million. This fee believes Directorate onshore facilities will be spared.
12 plants worldwide
Jens Christian Holm fisheries directorate - Jens Christian Holm Fisheries. - Photo: Øystein Nygård / NRK
Jens Christian Holm Fisheries.
Photo: Øystein Nygård / NRK
Jens Christian Holm Affairs presented the report at a conference in Bodø. He thinks Norwegian farmers have no choice.
- I do not think we should put us on a pedestal and believe this will not happen if Norway will not.
Frislippet of licenses shall be treated in Parliament in the spring. Fears in the industry has been that this will lead to the traditional Norwegian aquaculture becomes uncompetitive. Today Norway great competitive advantages thanks to a long and protected coastline. The advantage disappears if the plants harbors on land.
Today there are 12 onshore in the world, most in the United States and Canada, two in Denmark. China, Poland and France also tried themselves.
- Good tool against lice
Holm Fisheries believes Norwegian breeders must be farsighted.
- There is worse to be outdone by foreign companies that get delivered technology from abroad. It is after all better about Norwegian breeders are leading and delivering technology, he says.
- Greater risk
The industry itself is also not averse to trying, says Jon Arne Grøttum Director in Norwegian Seafood Federation.
- But to try out onshore plants involves huge risk and large investments. We want to facilitate those who dare to take the risk, says Grøttum.
- Is this realistic to achieve?
- The general attitude in the industry is that this is a demanding task to get a good economy. Although, I think that it will be of greatest interest to extend juvenile phase, but a few are already trying today to bring an entire production cycle on land.
- Will this destroy Norway's competitive advantage?
- Whatever we do in Norway, we can not stop technology trend towards onshore plants in the world. When should we build competence in Norway.
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Love the translation sites on the Internet. Norwegian breeders? Lol
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Sure don't see much for telling the Americans to grow their salmon on land.
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/01/farmed-steelhead-threaten-norwegian-wild-salmon.html
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/01/farmed-steelhead-threaten-norwegian-wild-salmon.html
Aren't you glad we don't have those problems here ;)
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And more bad news, is this happening here too? If not it may be just around the corner.
Penalties 15 new farms
Even more farms are now being punished for spreading lice. FSA is preparing to issue orders to 15 new plants to halve production.
Einar Aarre
Published: 02.feb. 2015 2:27 p.m. Updated: 02.feb. 2015 2:27 p.m.
Salmon farmers believe the punishment is too harsh.
- Imagine yourself that revenues overnight halved. It is dramatic. Many of these cases may end as advokatmat says Head Ketil Rykhus in Norwegian Seafood Federation (FHL).
Regional Director FSA Bjorn Rothe Knudtsen, believes too many breeders do a poor job of reducing lice. Two weeks ago, got the first three farmers ordered to halve production - including Bremnes Seas Whore Bømlo and Vindafjord. About a week follows FSA in with up to 15 new plants on the blacklist.
publication names
- It is not our goal to punish as many as possible. But all farms should remain below a specific level of salmon lice to prevent infection to other farms and wild fish. It is important to get weeded out these plants because they destroy others and contributes to several treatments with delousing agents, increased resistance and inferior fish health and welfare, says Knudtsen.
There are plants with long-term exceedance of louse limits that now have limitations. The names of farmers are published. The measure is prepared as part of the government harder line against breeders.
Lice and escapes considered aquaculture's problems.
- Lengthy overruns can be an expression of that production is too large and that farmers lack treatment and utslaktningskapasitet says Knudtsen.
Appeals against decisions will not get suspensive effect. It means that the reduction that the halving of production must be carried out even if the farmer complaints about the decision.
- Do we complain, we will do everything to make any mistakes from our side no negative consequences for the companies, Knudtsen.
farmers protest
Head of Ketil Rykhus of FHL think complaints may come. Farm owners association has had a dialogue with the FSA, and warned against the scheme.
- We believe that there are already measures that can be implemented earlier and faster slaughter plant that has a louse problem. It is a system which builds upon voluntary participation from the farmers, and orders from the FSA. Our view is that this scheme should be allowed to continue before the imposition of reduced production introduced, said Rykhus.
He is concerned about the consequences for the smaller farming companies.
- No breeders want to have lice - it is bad economics and bad welfare. But a measure that bisects a small breeder income is too drastic, says Rykhus.
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Best you call Almo Chris, she has a great track record regarding sea lice and their catastrophic impacts on BC pink salmon ;D
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Best you call Almo Chris, she has a great track record regarding sea lice and their catastrophic impacts on BC pink salmon ;D
LOL!
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Best you call Almo Chris, she has a great track record regarding sea lice and their catastrophic impacts on BC pink salmon ;D
Time for you to write to her and get everything straigtened out. ;D ;D ;D
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What's "utslaktningskapasitet"? Morton should use some of that GoFundMe money and hire a Norwegian translator.
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Best you call Almo Chris, she has a great track record regarding sea lice and their catastrophic impacts on BC pink salmon ;D
X2
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Best you call Almo Chris, she has a great track record regarding sea lice and their catastrophic impacts on BC pink salmon ;D
I believe it was her efforts 10 years that have allowed pinks to return in good numbers today.
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And I believe the Canucks will win the Stanley Cup this season ...
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/when-facts-fail-to-support-your-cause-boycott/
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Following up on the "Alex going to court" thread where Morton, in June 2013, took Marine Harvest to court over allegedly transferring PRV (Piscine Reovirus) infected Atlantic salmon in net pens where she contended that it would spread like "wildfire" and fears that it could put wild Pacific Salmon at risk of diseases like Heart and Skeletal Muscular Inflammation (HSMI).
No on knows what is happening to wild salmon that have been exposed to massive farm salmon populations infected with piscine reovirus. Maybe it is killing them, maybe it makes them too slow to catch food, or escape from whales, maybe it is doing nothing. - Alexandra Morton
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2014/06/back-in-court-june-11-13.html
Well a new study has just been released last month which should go a long way to ease Morton's concerns. The lead author is Kyle Garver who was an expert witness at the Cohen Inquiry and was routinely quoted by Morton. I guess he is now on the hit list with Beamish, Jones, Marty, Sheppard, and any other scientist that that does not tow the line. Her bunker is getting little smaller now.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jfd.12329/full
In summary, this is the first study to investigate the infectious potential of a Chinook Jaundice Syndrome. Our results suggest that the Jaundice Syndrome is of low transmission potential and likely not solely attributable to infection with PRV. Additionally, these experiments demonstrated that Atlantic Salmon and the Pacific salmon species, Chinook Salmon and Sockeye Salmon that were exposed to PRV all developed a sustained PRV infection without the occurrence of morbidity or evidence of disease. These initial findings suggest the Pacific coast strain of PRV is of low pathogenicity for Atlantic, Chinook and Sockeye Salmon.
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Wot, Almo is wrong again?? You have to think people are getting tired of her game of crying wolf ;D
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Is this not serious?
Escaped farmed fish tested positive for severe disease
"The fish had extensive skin ulcers and fin erosion, pale gills, and some fish had snutesår. The fish had empty stomach bleeding internal organs, swollen spleen and bloody hindgut. "
Aina Fladset
Published 02/08/2015 at 1:43 p.m. Updated 02/08/2015 at 16:15
Professor Are Nylund has examined escaped rainbow trout for Norwegian Association of Hunters and Anglers. Photo: Magne Turøy
Pancreas Disease (PD)
The disease affects Atlantic salmon and rainbow trout.
It is highly contagious and can be passed from one fish to or through the water.
A framed fish will lose your appetite and can become emaciated and get reduced harvest quality.
The disease can lead to acute heart failure in the fish.
It is estimated that PD costs the Norwegian salmon industry a billion dollars a year.
This is written in the final report by the analyzes of 15 rainbow trouts caught by Askøy.
But fish had more injuries than we could see with the naked eye.
- All the fish were positive for PD (Pancreas Disease journ.anm.). That it was detected in all came as a surprise to us. This poses a threat to wild fish and fry in rivers when spawning rainbow trout coming up there, says Alf Arne Bright, project manager for wild salmon in Norwegian Association of Hunters and Anglers.
- Should have been destroyed
The surveys are done by Are Nylund, a professor at the University of Bergen and one of the country's foremost expert on fish diseases, commissioned by Norwegian Association of Hunters and Anglers.
"Skin abrasions showed large amounts of varying types of bacteria," it also states the report.
ALSO READ: The professor checks escapees without charge
- These fish should to have been undergone emergency slaughter and desturert says Alf Arne Light.
Approximately 120,000 farmed fish has been on the run since extreme weather "Nina" in January, according to the Directorate of Fisheries.
Suspected virus infection
Sjøtroll Aquaculture is the only company that has reported that they have lost the rainbow.
Over 60,000 will be on the run. The species is banned in Norway, and is native to North America.
ALSO READ: Quests escapees with harpoon
According to an article in the online newspaper iLaks.no was Sjøtroll fish health boss Bjarne Reinert, quick to confirm that the document that has not been proven PD virus at some of the many samples taken of fish from this site in the current production cycle.
Wednesday came, however, evidence that shows that Sjøtroll subsequently notified of suspicion about PD in one of the localities fish escaped, according to the online newspaper.
CEO Willy Berglund Sjøtroll Aquaculture would not comment Sunday this above BergensAvisen.
- Read iLaks.no. Beyond that I have no more comment, enter the director in an SMS to BA.
Mystery
Saturday broadcast TV 2:01 reportage, where among other Berglund shows how recapture near a construction going on.
- The strange thing here is that I can actually see that the fish displayed in the report does not resemble the ugly fish caught outside Askøy. Whoever Berglund showcase in the report looks relatively nice, says Alf Arne Light from Norwegian Association of Hunters and Fish Association.
Today there are farms even as reports to the Directorate of Fisheries if fish escape.
Sjøtroll Aquaculture is not the only facility in the area engaged in farming of rainbow trout.
- It may be the case here, is that some have also failed to report an escape. If this is the case it is a clear sign of how badly the current system actually is, says Alf Arne Light.
BergensAvisen has previously asked the Directorate of Fisheries this may be possible.
- Can you see past the fact that there may have happened escapes that are not reported?
- As long as the arrangement is such that farmers themselves must report it is difficult to look away sire. But we come to, and must, relate to the foundation we have, stated Hans Haddal Directorate of Fisheries to BA.
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Is this not serious?
Only in Norway.
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Only in Norway.
So far, check the picture of this fish. :o
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/norways-fjords-flooded-escaped-diseased-farmed-fish/
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Once again, nobody says jack about salmon farming in Washington. :)
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Do some homework Chris :o Those pictures are irrelevant to the aquaculture industry in BC, for so many reasons... all of which have been discussed so, so many times here on FWR.
You and I are buddies, no question, and we agree on far more issues than the few we discuss here on this forum, but I think you're becoming a wannabe journalist pot stirrer, a Greendale Rafe Mair ... you like to throw this garbage out there to see the reaction, and of course I take your bait readily.
So I ask you, how does this link you sent have any relevance to fish farming in BC or Washington? Please, no C&P ing ... just your thoughts.
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Do some homework Chris :o Those pictures are irrelevant to the aquaculture industry in BC, for so many reasons... all of which have been discussed so, so many times here on FWR.
You and I are buddies, no question, and we agree on far more issues than the few we discuss here on this forum, but I think you're becoming a wannabe journalist pot stirrer, a Greendale Rafe Mair ... you like to throw this garbage out there to see the reaction, and of course I take your bait readily.
So I ask you, how does this link you sent have any relevance to fish farming in BC or Washington? Please, no C&P ing ... just your thoughts.
Just showing what FF ing can do, its not all a bed of roses like some try to say it is.
Gosh I thought I as already a journalist, don't you read The Journal? ;D ;D ;D
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Once again, nobody says jack about salmon farming in Washington. :)
You can deal with that as it seems to concern you now and then. ;D
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You can deal with that as it seems to concern you now and then. ;D
Only because it looks to me that American Doc Morton's crusade looks more and more like a simple marketing advertisement Chris. Buy American. Why would you not also care about the salmon farming just to the south of us? You sure seem to care about what happens around the rest of the world.
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Only because it looks to me that American Doc Morton's crusade looks more and more like a simple marketing advertisement Chris. Buy American. Why would you not also care about the salmon farming just to the south of us? You sure seem to care about what happens around the rest of the world.
We need to spread the workload around, a good project for you in 2015. ;D ;D
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We need to spread the workload around, a good project for you in 2015. ;D ;D
Or perhaps Doc Morton. But then she does not seem to mind Atlantic salmon farming in her own country. :)
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Or perhaps Doc Morton. But then she does not seem to mind Atlantic salmon farming in her own country. :)
No I think you would be an excellent choice to handle that file, please keep us updated how you make out.I know SS and Dave as well will be pleased to hear about your findings.
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No I think you would be an excellent choice to handle that file, please keep us updated how you make out.I know SS and Dave as well will be pleased to hear about your findings.
I will leave it to you Chris. You seem to have the time and enjoy stirring the pot. Also you seem to have no problem with salmon farms in Washington. Perhaps you can give the BC farmers a few pointers on how farming should be done. :)
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I will leave it to you Chris. You seem to have the time and enjoy stirring the pot. Also you seem to have no problem with salmon farms in Washington. Perhaps you can give the BC farmers a few pointers on how farming should be done. :)
Disappointed.
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Disappointed.
I know how you feel Chris. Doc Morton would most likely be choked at us if we pointed our finger at what her country does. :)
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Saw this on FB.
"The industry continues to spread false information about itself and it's products.
In this article, Jeremy Dunn of the BC Salmon Farmers Association said there’s a lot of rhetoric and misinformation about the industry.
Yet he feeds that rhetoric with misinformation of his own. He says:
"Atlantic salmon, as compared to several species of Pacific salmon, naturally maintains higher fats as it has the ability to spawn several times.”
That may be true in natural wild populations of Atlantic salmon (which, btw, are not native to BC) but the farmed Atlantic salmon raised in BC are never allowed to spawn. They are a single generation crop, raised from fry to market size then slaughtered, so they can never get to the stage where their "natural fats" build to the levels he implies. But they are fat ... no doubt about that. They are fat because the can't move around like normal healthy fish and their fat content, and flesh colour, is controlled by additives in their feed.
He says:
"B.C. salmon-farms creates 6,000 jobs on Vancouver Island and produces $800 million in economic activity for the province".
Wrong again Jeremy.
Recent BC aquaculture statistics compiled by the BC government show that the finfish aquaculture industry employed only 1700 people in 2011 and stated that the overall trend in employment in the industry was downward decreasing by 10% from 2000 - 2011 (see Page 33: http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/…/FisheriesAquacultureHuntingT….
Also, federal aquaculture statistics show that total aquaculture production in BC for each year over the three years period 2011 - 2013 has amounted to only around $450 million per year (range $409.1 million - 475.8 million) See: http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/stats/aqua/aqua-prod-eng.htm"
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Only in Norway.
Maybe not.
http://aquaculturedirectory.co.uk/bc-norway-mirror-images-salmon-farming-disaster/#sthash.g8FIyTaV.INNIAgd4.dpbs
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Maybe not.
http://aquaculturedirectory.co.uk/bc-norway-mirror-images-salmon-farming-disaster/#sthash.g8FIyTaV.INNIAgd4.dpbs
yawn ... come back with something relevant to BC or Washington.
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That may be true in natural wild populations of Atlantic salmon (which, btw, are not native to BC) but the farmed Atlantic salmon raised in BC are never allowed to spawn. They are a single generation crop, raised from fry to market size then slaughtered, so they can never get to the stage where their "natural fats" build to the levels he implies. But they are fat ... no doubt about that. They are fat because the can't move around like normal healthy fish and their fat content, and flesh colour, is controlled by additives in their feed.
Well, technically Dunn is correct. Perhaps he should have clarified what he meant (wild or farmed), but the guy replying on Facebook already doesn't like Dunn so it doesn't really matter. As for Atlantic salmon raised in BC are never allowed to spawn....well, that's kind of silly statement because of course they don't spawn like wild salmon, but they are "spawned" nonetheless or farms wouldn't have any broodstock. It's just done differently. How does he think fish hatcheries work? As for fats, wild and farmed salmon have the good fats needed to help prevent heart disease.
Wrong again Jeremy.
Recent BC aquaculture statistics compiled by the BC government show that the finfish aquaculture industry employed only 1700 people in 2011 and stated that the overall trend in employment in the industry was downward decreasing by 10% from 2000 - 2011 (see Page 33: http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/…/FisheriesAquacultureHuntingT….
First, if you read Section 6.2.1 Measuring Employment in Aquaculture on page 33 it cautions people on how they should use these estimated employment levels. Kind of important to mention. Secondly, he needs to consider the secondary employment generated by aquaculture activities - those businesses that supply goods and services to them. After the tanking of the forest industry you can bet that places like Campbell River look more at aquaculture now for economic activity. Thirdly, these stats likely include all forms of aquaculture including shellfish. Lastly, the aquaculture industry likely has had a uncertain future with the controversy over the last 5 years or so regarding impacts on wild salmon so new farms applications were put on hold. Hard to generate more employment if you can't grow. Canada is only in competition with other countries like Chile so that could have contributed.
Also, federal aquaculture statistics show that total aquaculture production in BC for each year over the three years period 2011 - 2013 has amounted to only around $450 million per year (range $409.1 million - 475.8 million) See: http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/stats/aqua/aqua-prod-eng.htm"
What stats is he talking about? Again, aquaculture includes shellfish, not just finfish. Secondly, taking only a small snap shot in time like 3 years is not really telling because when you take a longer time scale (like 10 years) it shows how the industry (finfish) has grown. There is a reason why he only chose 3 years because if he looked what total "finfish" aquaculture production in BC was in 2002 and followed up to and including 2013 his argument would have looked weak. Lastly, recent production values are likely tied to the competition with other countries and recent moratoriums on new farms. Nevertheless, places on North Vancouver Island likely appreciate the economic activity this provides, in conjunction with the sport industry, since the reduction in the forest industry.
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yawn ... come back with something relevant to BC or Washington.
I am very afraid it could become relevant here too, that is what is my concern.
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I am very afraid it could become relevant here too, that is what is my concern.
So, you're afraid of escaping farmed fish? What about the millions of Atlantic's that have been deliberately planted in west coast waters that were not successful??
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So, you're afraid of escaping farmed fish? What about the millions of Atlantic's that have been deliberately planted in west coast waters that were not successful??
You are getting as bad as the Liberals, always bringing up the past, when they bring up the NDP's record in the nineties.
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Weak response Chris. I was simply trying to learn your fears; still don't know them ::)
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It has made me think that all the anti salmon farm crusade is just a poor marketing scam in the sites you post Chris. Never do they mention the Atlantic salmon farmers in Washington. I would think by now you and an American like Doc Morton would have caught on to this by now. I did. ::)
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Here's another interesting tidbit regarding stocking Atlantic salmon on the west coast .. how many anti salmon farmers (Chris et al) knew this was happening 8)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/02/11/oregon-lake-no-longer-stocking-atlantic-salmon/
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/290977591.html?fb_action_ids=10153159039856095&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B669659619810624%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.comments%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/290977591.html?fb_action_ids=10153159039856095&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B669659619810624%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.comments%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
Cohen's report didn't not point out any primary cause for Fraser Sockeye declines; however, it was proposed during the inquiry that a more likely explanation is that something changed in the ocean (i.e. ocean conditions), specifically the Strait of Georgia. That's pretty general and there are caveats attached to that which Stewart should have mentioned. So, Cohen didn't conclude that it was ocean conditions; instead there were many factors implicated as possible causes. Clearly what came out of Cohen was that there were data gaps and the time series being used was too short to make any big conclusions on a specific cause. Currently, there is work being undertaking to fill in these gaps (i.e. Salish Sea Marine Survival Project, Fish Health Initiative).
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http://www.seafoodsource.com/news/aquaculture/27657-swss15-aquaculture-the-most-resource-efficient-way-to-grow-food
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/290977591.html?fb_action_ids=10153159039856095&fb_action_types=og.comments&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B669659619810624%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.comments%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
One of the notable quotes in one of the articles linked to this one:
Morton says government and industry ridicule has had an ironic impact on public support.
“What they don’t understand is the more we get attacked the higher our credibility rises".
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/174838471.html
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One of the notable quotes in one of the articles linked to this one:
Morton says government and industry ridicule has had an ironic impact on public support.
“What they don’t understand is the more we get attacked the higher our credibility rises".
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/174838471.html
That may be true if Doc Morton ever gets some thing right. ::)
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That may be true if Doc Morton ever gets some thing right. ::)
http://www.vancouversun.com/Lawsuit+dropped+after+College+Veterinarians+agrees+investigate+fish+researcher+complaint/10805347/story.html
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http://www.vancouversun.com/Lawsuit+dropped+after+College+Veterinarians+agrees+investigate+fish+researcher+complaint/10805347/story.html
Head line says it all Chris. Doc Morton has a long way to go to once again prove herself wrong. Imo. :)
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/proposed-new-bc-salmon-farms-net-strong-public-opposition/
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Cohen's report didn't not point out any primary cause for Fraser Sockeye declines; however, it was proposed during the inquiry that a more likely explanation is that something changed in the ocean (i.e. ocean conditions), specifically the Strait of Georgia. That's pretty general and there are caveats attached to that which Stewart should have mentioned. So, Cohen didn't conclude that it was ocean conditions; instead there were many factors implicated as possible causes. Clearly what came out of Cohen was that there were data gaps and the time series being used was too short to make any big conclusions on a specific cause. Currently, there is work being undertaking to fill in these gaps (i.e. Salish Sea Marine Survival Project, Fish Health Initiative).
http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/291756691.html#.VN02UTqTRSE.facebook
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http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/02/11/college-investigates-salmon-disease-advisor
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http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/02/11/college-investigates-salmon-disease-advisor
I don't think you're going to like this outcome Chris ;)
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/letters/291756691.html#.VN02UTqTRSE.facebook
Ed was ok until he got to the 4th paragraph. That's when his argument starts to nose dive. He brings up the Cohen Report saying how Stewart Hawthorn "cherry picked" his information from the report.....but then Ed starts talking about Norway which was not the scope of the Cohen Inquiry or the Final Report. He talks about what Stewart fails to mention in the report but then goes sideways and starts talking about Norway. Why not talk about what Cohen found and didn't find? The reason is that it doesn't support critics claims that aquaculture is the primary cause of Fraser Sockeye declines.
Who funds this "ongoing" research? Well, I imagine he is insinuating that it is solely funded by BC fish farms; however, the fact is that these are collaborative efforts (PSF, DFO, universities, Genome BC, American scientists, and industry) with funding coming from not just industry, but the PSF and DFO. When Ed or his buddies buy a salmon stamp that money can potentially go to these efforts. So, who funds this? Well, you do in a way, Ed.
Fallowing of sites has been going on since 2003/2004 to my knowledge. It wasn't a new concept in 2008 (the outmigrants which contributed to the record 2010 return), so Ed's recollection is incorrect.
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I don't think you're going to like this outcome Chris ;)
It's more for crowd morale than anything else. The numbers (Sockeye returns) are not supporting her doom and gloom theories and she knows it. Fraser Sockeye productivity has been good lately - if anything things are not getting worse. She needs to keep the troops happy and make it seem that she is still battling, but really she is moving two steps back for every step forward.
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It's more for crowd morale than anything else. The numbers (Sockeye returns) are not supporting her doom and gloom theories and she knows it. Fraser Sockeye productivity has been good lately - if anything things are not getting worse. She needs to keep the troops happy and make it seem that she is still battling, but really she is moving two steps back for every step forward.
Of course you will say that.
At the Long Table today and Dave was there to hear it too. ;D A LT regular stopped by our short table and told us he had tried FF fish and it was just terrible, thought that was always true but could not verify that fact as I had never taken the opporunty to test it and I am glad I now will not have to. ;D ;D ;D
SS you must know, everything you hear at the LT is true. ;D ;D ;D
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The long table regular who didn't like farmed salmon was a quality control supervisor for a company best known for making processed cheese slices and Cheez Whiz ... 'nuf said ;)
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/mainnews/?article_id=110688
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Well Bawb I'm sure you and Odd had some chuckles feeding SLICE to the fish back in the day. But oddly enough Odd is criticising Mortons academic credentials when his own is at odds with his new profession. You should read some other stuff to get a perspective on things.
https://ca.linkedin.com/pub/odd-grydeland/8/a35/6b0
He slighted by not "friending" you on his linkin page though.
For your perusal.
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/shoddy-science-hargreaves-beamish-dfo/
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What ever peels the line off your reel TB. Happy fishing :)
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The long table regular who didn't like farmed salmon was a quality control supervisor for a company best known for making processed cheese slices and Cheez Whiz ... 'nuf said ;)
Anyone that eats fish knows what fish should taste like. ;D
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So tell us Chris, how can you have an opinion on the taste of farmed salmon if you've never tried one ???
Same way you know salmon farming is bad I guess ..
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What ever peels the line off your reel TB. Happy fishing :)
Happy fishfarming :P
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For your perusal.
http://commonsensecanadian.ca/shoddy-science-hargreaves-beamish-dfo/
Dick Beamish had a knack for pissing off fellow scientists, mainly because of his arrogance ... Hargreaves was not the only one by a long shot.
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So tell us Chris, how can you have an opinion on the taste of farmed salmon if you've never tried one ???
Same way you know salmon farming is bad I guess ..
Enough people I know have said it tastes nothing like wild salmon, time you get out and catch some, I worry about your health.
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I worry about your health.
Haha!! thanks for your concerns and when I run out of donated steelhead I will go out for a few :D Care to be my ghillie?
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Anyone that eats fish knows what fish should taste like. ;D
Chris, have you even bothered to try any closed containment grown salmon that the anti-salmon farm crusaders have been crying for? How about Doc Morton? Just would like the self appointed experts taste test opinion.
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Chris, have you even bothered to try any closed containment grown salmon that the anti-salmon farm crusaders have been crying for? How about Doc Morton? Just would like the self appointed experts taste test opinion.
Bwaahahaha, that was funny!!
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Land based salmon farm:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/02/17/land-based-salmon-farm-to-meet-production-cost-targets/
" Atlantic salmon in closed-containment systems grow to market weight in 12 to 15 months, compared with 21 to 24 months in ocean-based net pens."
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I posted my taste test of these fish earlier ... they were just fine! a bit pricey but most new products are.
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https://responsibleaquaculture.wordpress.com/2015/02/17/time-for-transparency-in-government-time-to-smell-the-coffee-in-nova-scotia/
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Seems to me that Doc Morton and her crusaders should wake up and smell the coffee and be more transparent in the question answering department. Where did the funding go and how did that pellet fed closed containment salmon taste?
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it tasted like progress bob.
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it tasted like progress bob.
Way to go Banx. Thank you. :) May I ask what size it was?
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Land based salmon farm:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/02/17/land-based-salmon-farm-to-meet-production-cost-targets/
" Atlantic salmon in closed-containment systems grow to market weight in 12 to 15 months, compared with 21 to 24 months in ocean-based net pens."
You don't see the fishfarmers pitching on the research being done here. Which does not surprise me as usually they only beak off about "pellets" thinking that's some sort of contribution. Won't be till no one will buy there dirty fish that they will catch up to speed. Hopefully then it will be "Dino land" for them.
Gung Hay Fat Choy to Kuterra. Qiāng yú piánpián to the dirty fish farmer. Seeing it's new years. ;D
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Land based salmon farm:
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/02/17/land-based-salmon-farm-to-meet-production-cost-targets/
" Atlantic salmon in closed-containment systems grow to market weight in 12 to 15 months, compared with 21 to 24 months in ocean-based net pens."
It looks like they are not counting the time it takes from egg to smelt. And what do they consider market size? The hole article smells of marketing by pen bashing, not informative of closed containment systems at all. I would also like to know where their smolts come from.
TB, I will believe you mean what you say when you eat what you preach. :)
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Ya, Seems to be some unclear details in the article. The fish in the photo are 5 to 6 lbs where on a ocean pen the harvest size would be much MUCH bigger. I'm not sure if the timelines are clear in the article.
In the spirit of open and transparent, it would be interesting to get all the info, feed rates, harvest size and numbers and dates.
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Now that the technical issues have been resolved, Ulstrom estimates it would cost about $6 million to replicate the facility. That’s still higher than the capital cost of a net-pen farm, but closed-containment aquaculture answers many of the pressing environmental issues that the ocean-based industry is wrestling with, including Atlantic salmon escapes, chemical controls for sea lice and the spectre of disease transfer to wild fish. – Randy Shore
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2015/02/17/land-based-salmon-farm-to-meet-production-cost-targets/
Sounds like fish farm opponents here are wrestling with trying to sell their theories in the face of favourable productivity of Fraser Sockeye salmon in recent years despite the fact that fish farms are still operating. Not a great correlation for farm critics to use anymore if they are attempting to say that salmon farms are devastating BC wild salmon. Could there be more to this that critics have overlooked? Apparently, we all needed to look at the escapement numbers back in the last decade as evidence that BC fish farms were the cause of Fraser Sockeye declines, but now fish farm opponents don’t even mention these numbers. Pink salmon abundance is not even brought up. Now all critics talk about is Norway. No mention viral surveillance work done here and recent work on PRV and farmed Chinook Salmon. Randy Shore should really be writing about how BC fish farm critics are wrestling with trying to maintain credibility with their firmly held beliefs in the face of new information and data that fails to support those beliefs.
I think it’s great if Kuterra can make a go of it. My issue has never been the development or use of closed-containment – instead it’s the case brought forward by people like Morton which unfairly paints the industry here as reckless and implicates it as the primary cause for Pacific Salmon declines.
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Sounds like the same excuses for lousy fish farming practices.
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Sounds like the same excuses for lousy fish farming practices.
There is no excuse for not keeping up with the times TB. :)
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There is no excuse for not keeping up with the times TB. :)
Well I'm a little surprised your for land based fishfarming bawby! Next you'll be back donating money to Morton. Good on ya.
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Well I'm a little surprised your for land based fishfarming bawby! Next you'll be back donating money to Morton. Good on ya.
I am just against their anti-salmon farm marketing campaign. They would be better off being transparent about how the operation works. But on the bright side, Doc Morton and her warriors get to eat what they have been pushing on the public. Let me know how it tastes TB. :)
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Sounds like someone put SLICE in your cornflakes. :-\ I didn't know they were slighting your business. I believe their product would be something to buy though, no problem. Unlike the dirty stuff.
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Sounds like someone put SLICE in your cornflakes. :-\ I didn't know they were slighting your business. I believe their product would be something to buy though, no problem. Unlike the dirty stuff.
Eat what you preach then. Let me know how it tastes TB. You may want to remove the foot first though. :)
Btw
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=10818426
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http://aquaculturedirectory.co.uk/salmon-farming-leading-the-way-in-seafood-sustainability/#sthash.sYfvjYUt.G47ZAogV.dpbs
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https://3blmedia.com/News/BC-Salmon-Farmers-Achieve-Further-Certification-Milestones
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http://www.the-open-mind.com/the-side-effects-of-vaccinated-farmed-fish/
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I didn't get past the first paragraph where I found a fault with this article.
Be forewarned, please, that this will not be very pleasant reading, especially if readers eat farm-raised fish and, in particular, salmon, a highly-farm-raised fish. “Wild-caught” need not apply. - See more at: http://www.the-open-mind.com/the-side-effects-of-vaccinated-farmed-fish/#sthash.GVrksZat.dpuf/
Wild fish need not apply??? How do you tell the difference between a wild salmon and a ranched salmon or a hatchery salmon. One is vaccinated and the other is not. What other hatchery systems receive vacinations?
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I didn't get past the first paragraph where I found a fault with this article.
Be forewarned, please, that this will not be very pleasant reading, especially if readers eat farm-raised fish and, in particular, salmon, a highly-farm-raised fish. “Wild-caught” need not apply. - See more at: http://www.the-open-mind.com/the-side-effects-of-vaccinated-farmed-fish/#sthash.GVrksZat.dpuf/
Wild fish need not apply??? How do you tell the difference between a wild salmon and a ranched salmon or a hatchery salmon. One is vaccinated and the other is not. What other hatchery systems receive vacinations?
Nothing new, the PAPG find fault with any thing anti FF. :D :D :D
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Its pretty easy Chris and it shouldn't be. I think its the anti-everything crew not the anti salmon farming bunch.
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/Displaypage/?article_id=110885
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Yep... http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/About-Us/
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Yep... http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/About-Us/
Wow, an unexpected endorsement from Chris :D
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And some say we have accomplished nothing, what will the come back be this time from the PAPG? ;D ;D
Aqua Lobbyists Rewrote Fish Act, Senate Committee’s Told
Aquaculture lobbyists are responsible for a rewrite of the Fisheries Act that fails to provide a “fair balance” on environmental protection, says a Conservative senator. The remarks came as the Department of Fisheries acknowledged public protest has prompted rewording of regulations favouring aquaculture companies.
“It’s difficult for me to believe that you haven’t turned this almost entirely over to the industry,” said Senator Thomas McInnis (Nova Scotia); “I don’t see that balance. There is a tremendous public outcry of concern and uncertainty with respect to aquaculture.”
The fisheries department proposes to amend section 36 of the Fisheries Act that bans dumping of any “deleterious substances” in fish habitat. Aquaculture operators have sought repeal of the section as a barrier to pesticides on fish stock.
Speaking at hearings of the Senate fisheries committee, Senator McInnis said regulators failed to address environmental worries and appeared to defer to lobbyists. “The Department of Fisheries and Oceans is a major department, and what I see is that you’re turning it over,” he said.
“It is not fair balance,” said McInnis. “I know that it came from the industry, and that’s fair. They have a right to lobby, but this is not as clean-cut as you make it, and that’s the problem.” McInnis is former president of the Association for the Preservation of the Eastern Shore, founded in 2012 in Sheet Harbour, N.S. to protest local licensing of offshore pens by Snow Island Salmon Inc.
Regulators last August 23 first detailed Fisheries Act amendments to sanction the use of licensed pesticides in aquaculture providing that companies take “measures to mitigate detriment to fish” and report any “unusual fish morbidity”. A senior official said the amendments remain “the centerpiece of the department’s broader aquaculture regulatory reform agenda”, but are being revised amid protest.
“In some respects they are a response to industry lobbying to be sure,” said Michael Alexander, assistant deputy minister. Alexander explained that draft regulations for companies “talked about their ability to self-report. Many of the comments that were received through the consultation period focused on that very point, and that is one of the items we’re looking at.”
“We have been looking at alternatives,” Alexander said. “Maybe just any mortality of fish that is in the area must be reported, not ‘unusual’ mortality or morbidity, not to leave it up to them to decide. These are the sort of changes that we are currently examining.”
‘Nobody Else Gets Special Treatment’
The Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance has appealed for the amendments, citing current regulations as a barrier to growth. “It’s a farming industry; we’re not fishing,” Ruth Salmon, executive director, earlier testified at the fisheries committee; “Canada now only accounts for 0.2 percent of global aquaculture production”; “Why have we flat-lined? The principle challenge confronting our sector is the complicated set of regulations that restrict growth and limit investment.”
However several witnesses opposed to Fisheries Act amendments described Canadian aquaculture as a marginal, subsidized business reliant on preferential treatment. “Look at what’s driving this – concerted industry lobbying,” said Robert Johnson, of the Halifax-based Ecology Action Centre; “It’s no small thing. It’s a big game-changer. No other industry gets special treatment to put harmful substances directly into our Canadian bays and harbours.”
Biologist Michal van den Heuvel of the University of Prince Edward Island said the aquaculture amendments would “decriminalize” polluting of waters and pass regulation to provinces. “Let’s face it, the provincial legislation has fewer teeth,” said van den Heuvel; “I say this is essentially a get-out-of-jail-free card. I don’t say that lightly. I think release of these illegal compounds is criminal.”
The critics were among 124 scientists to co-sign a February 17 petition to cabinet demanding withdrawal of the amendments. Ecology Action’s Johnson cited federal data that aquaculture companies employ some 4,000 Canadians nationwide, and benefit from subsidies: “The industry, under a fundamentally flawed model, has been very poor at creating jobs,” he said.
Health Canada last year confirmed payments of $92.7 million to compensate aquaculture firms for diseased fish. The payments were made over three years to salmon farmers in British Columbia, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland & Labrador.
By Paul Delahanty
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Wow!!!
http://rabble.ca/news/2015/03/fish-farm-madness-harper-proposes-lax-regulations-fish-farm-industry
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The critics were among 124 scientists to co-sign a February 17 petition to cabinet demanding withdrawal of the amendments. Ecology Action’s Johnson cited federal data that aquaculture companies employ some 4,000 Canadians nationwide, and benefit from subsidies: “The industry, under a fundamentally flawed model, has been very poor at creating jobs,” he said.
Health Canada last year confirmed payments of $92.7 million to compensate aquaculture firms for diseased fish. The payments were made over three years to salmon farmers in British Columbia, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland & Labrador.
By Paul Delahanty
Once again misinformation and leaving out some key details. Did you know that avian bird flu hit Lower Mainland poultry farms late last year? This resulted in hundreds of thousand of birds being destroyed. Why do you ask? Well, it's the law. It's called the Health of Animals Act. Individuals like Paul Delahanty should read it in order to provide proper context to this issue before writing non-impartial article. He makes it appear as a "subsidy" in his article, but the fact is that it isn't.
Impacted poultry farmers were ordered to destroy those birds. They don't have a choice. Like fish farmers that are ordered to destroy their fish due to disease, these poultry farmers are provided compensation under this legislation which only covers the market value of their livestock up to the point of them being destroyed. Similar to impacted poultry farmers, fish farmers in Canada having to destroy their fish before they reach market size are actually losing money - not making money. So it's a myth that fish farmers in Canada are making money following a disease outbreak. The legislation is intended to encourage farmers to report serious outbreaks of illness. Lastly, when BC fish farmers pre-emptively destroy their fish due to suspected disease they are NOT provided financial compensation under this legislation. This was the case in 2012 during an outbreak of IHN on Mainstream's farm in Dixon Bay where the company destroyed those fish before any viral confirmation or order to destroy came from the CFIA.
You can proceed to pick this apart if you want, but these are the facts.
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Well as far as bird flue goes the solution is simple. Grow the birds in isolated tanks, underwater in the ocean. This way there would be no risk to all the wild birds. Eventually in a perfect word everything from the ocean would be grown on land and everything from the land will be produced in the ocean. (http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/images_zpss89cnzsm.jpeg) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/images_zpss89cnzsm.jpeg.html)
Thanks so much Steve for keeping us all up to speed on the finer details of the issue. Your participation is appreciated.
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Well as far as bird flue goes the solution is simple. Grow the birds in isolated tanks, underwater in the ocean. This way there would be no risk to all the wild birds. Eventually in a perfect word everything from the ocean would be grown on land and everything from the land will be produced in the ocean. (http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/images_zpss89cnzsm.jpeg) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/images_zpss89cnzsm.jpeg.html)
Thanks so much Steve for keeping us all up to speed on the finer details of the issue. Your participation is appreciated.
Back to school for you too. ;D ;D
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I bet the land farmers are also biting their finger nails atm. :(
http://globalnews.ca/news/1875630/warm-weather-on-b-c-s-south-coast-could-negatively-impact-salmon-runs/
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http://www.salmonfarming.org/events/14-8-billion-meals-and-121000-jobs/
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https://www.ecojustice.ca/canadas-wild-fish-need-to-be-handled-with-care/#sthash.Qj3KOgA9.dpuf
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/genetically-modified-salmon-approval-faces-lawsuit-1.2506248
Looks like the only thing fish farmers can improve on their product is to go mad scientist. :-\
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The US funding says it all TB. Might also want to check up on what Doc Morton's home country is fundinig in other countries. Chile comes to mind for me along with Mexico to be short. :)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AquaBounty_technologies
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/genetically-modified-salmon-approval-faces-lawsuit-1.2506248
Looks like the only thing fish farmers can improve on their product is to go mad scientist. :-\
That link is over a year old ... got anything more up to date? :D
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http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/warmer-pacific-waters-other-factors-may-be-harming-marine-life/article23532175/?service=mobile&page=all
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Oh no!!!
http://en.wikivet.net/Amoebic_Gill_Disease
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The leafs won so Chris is on a high ::)
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The leafs won so Chris is on a high ::)
Yes and a very sucessful cleanup yesterday, was great to see a few hundred people out there too.
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http://www.seattletimes.com/business/retail/costco-will-buy-most-farmed-salmon-from-norway-not-chile/
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Does Eddy, the shaman salmon warrior, know this important update ;D? did he even know Costco salmon were imported from Chile? Will he and his sheeple continue to boycott Costco now that the salmon sold there are from Norway, not BC ? Stay tuned folks, lol...
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Does Eddy, the shaman salmon warrior, know this important update ;D? did he even know Costco salmon were imported from Chile? Will he and his sheeple continue to boycott Costco now that the salmon sold there are from Norway, not BC ? Stay tuned folks, lol...
I am sure you will be coming to this event and join us.lol
https://www.facebook.com/events/683957878397505/?ref=6&ref_notif_type=plan_user_invited
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Interesting that the Mennonite Church is partially funding this event. Hope it goes well for you Chris.
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Interesting that the Mennonite Church is partially funding this event. Hope it goes well for you Chris.
It will, hoping you will check us out when we stop in Chilliwack.
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Any idea what day that will be?
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Something to chat about at the coffee shop. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/want-to-help-a-killer-whale-eat-its-primary-food-supply-wait-what/
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Something to chat about at the coffee shop. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/want-to-help-a-killer-whale-eat-its-primary-food-supply-wait-what/
Interesting article Fb. As chinook salmon are so necessary as prey items for these orcas and since habitat degradation and over fishing, especially by FN and sporties probably won't be reversed anytime soon, increasing numbers of wild chinook don't seem to be the answer. So that leaves two options as I see it .. resident orcas must find an alternate major food source, or hatcheries need to step up production, which will probably lead to fewer wild Chinook. Some tough decisions ahead for the people charged with managing these inter connected species.
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Something to chat about at the coffee shop. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/want-to-help-a-killer-whale-eat-its-primary-food-supply-wait-what/
Yep, save killer whales by eating more wild Chinook - a primary food source for killer whales. Makes total sense. He sure hasn't kept up with what has been going on in Alaska with their wild Chinook. Donkey.
Here is more for Dr. Baird to digest.....
http://www.vancouversun.com/More+news+wild+sockeye/10938957/story.html
Add this to abnormally warm water conditions in the northeastern Pacific and you see that there is more going on. However, Morton is more focused on Norway. She is looking small picture again and that's why she is where she is right now.
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Not looking good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/03/conservation-group-concerned-with-lack-of-public-notification-of-salmon-virus_n_7001352.html
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Not looking good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/03/conservation-group-concerned-with-lack-of-public-notification-of-salmon-virus_n_7001352.html
Looks to me like the industy and gov are on top of it but I guess the Huffingtonpost has to find some thing to huff about. :)
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Times are tough for the anti's these days Bob ;D
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Times are tough for the anti's these days Bob ;D
OK we will then have a rally today at the SS. Will get you your favorite song. ;D ;D ;D
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You're becoming a pro at this protesting game. Well at least SS sells salmon farmed in BC ;)
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Not looking good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/03/conservation-group-concerned-with-lack-of-public-notification-of-salmon-virus_n_7001352.html
"It's prudent when you have cases like this to get this out to the public.''
Why do these preliminary results have to made public, Chris? Is there a risk to public safety here? That would have to be "no" based on the fact that ISAv is fatal to fish but not to humans. If there was a risk to public safety at that point then I would tend to agree with opponents, but there isn't. We are not talking about Red Tide here. Are we told preliminary results for other livestock?
The key word is "preliminary". Final confirmation is made by the CFIA. Carr says that "without the public knowing what's going on a lot of rumours and wildfires can happen". True, but to a point, because preliminary results can be misinterpreted as being final results. Once results are confirmed they are released to the public, so I don't understand all the "huff" either. The fish farm did what they were supposed to do under law the by notifying government authorities; however, they went further by removing all the fish from the pen before final confirmation by the CFIA. Again, this is done because by the time final confirmation is made (up to 2 weeks) the virus could spread and cause disease outbreaks in other adjacent farms. Because the company decided to cull these fish before an order from the CFIA they are NOT eligible for compensation under legislation.
I believe the need for this information to be released at earlier stages is for opponent's desire to criticize the industry. It's definitely not for public safety. Opponents are wasting their time creating all this paranoia about fish viruses because they should realize that all these viruses come from the wild in the first place. Don't go to sport fishing if you don't like pathogens in your fish.
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kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until an order because of financial reasons. During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm. is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?
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kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until an order because of financial reasons. During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm. is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?
Good point banx. I would think the CFIA would be the correct agency to answer that.
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Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D
Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D
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kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until an order because of financial reasons. During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm. is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?
From my understanding, if a fish farm in Canada suspects a federally reportable virus it is required by law to report it to the CFIA – even preliminary results (Fish farm companies have their own veterinary staff and do their own testing). Following this, the CFIA would likely initiate an investigation and could require the company to increase surveillance, do more sampling, order the company to take measures to restrict movements of staff and fish in the suspected area while samples are being sent to the CFIA testing lab for confirmation. I imagine these measures would be a preliminary response to try and contain a suspected virus before final confirmation is made; however, between the time the virus is first suspected and the confirmation results from the CFIA, the fish farm in question is not legally obligated to cull the suspect fish.
Farms don’t have to cull their fish if not order to, but from what fish farmers have learned from previous experience, it is not in their best interests to not take pre-emptive action (i.e. culling) if preliminary results are positive and then wait for final confirmation from the CFIA. Financially, they stand to lose a lot more if the virus spreads to adjacent farms – not just to other companies but their own operations. Confirmation results from the CFIA can take 10 to 14 days. If action is not taken after positive preliminary results, the virus could be so widespread to other farms by the time results are back from the CFIA that more culling may be required – meaning more financial losses than if the action was taken earlier (i.e. better to cut your losses sooner than wait and lose even more). If the CFIA tests confirm the federally reportable virus then they can require the company to take further measures (depending on the situation) which can include destroying infected fish and follow-up measures to confirm that the virus has been dealt with correctly.
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Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D
Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D
The circus is coming to town?! Clowns and all. Oh goody! lol :P ;D
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"It's prudent when you have cases like this to get this out to the public.''
Why do these preliminary results have to made public, Chris? Is there a risk to public safety here? That would have to be "no" based on the fact that ISAv is fatal to fish but not to humans. If there was a risk to public safety at that point then I would tend to agree with opponents, but there isn't. We are not talking about Red Tide here. Are we told preliminary results for other livestock?
The key word is "preliminary". Final confirmation is made by the CFIA. Carr says that "without the public knowing what's going on a lot of rumours and wildfires can happen". True, but to a point, because preliminary results can be misinterpreted as being final results. Once results are confirmed they are released to the public, so I don't understand all the "huff" either. The fish farm did what they were supposed to do under law the by notifying government authorities; however, they went further by removing all the fish from the pen before final confirmation by the CFIA. Again, this is done because by the time final confirmation is made (up to 2 weeks) the virus could spread and cause disease outbreaks in other adjacent farms. Because the company decided to cull these fish before an order from the CFIA they are NOT eligible for compensation under legislation.
I believe the need for this information to be released at earlier stages is for opponent's desire to criticize the industry. It's definitely not for public safety. Opponents are wasting their time creating all this paranoia about fish viruses because they should realize that all these viruses come from the wild in the first place. Don't go to sport fishing if you don't like pathogens in your fish.
Kinda thought this latest post by Chris would interest you Steve. Of course this is the usual crap trotted out by the anti salmon farmers, whenever it's a slow month/year to further their cause, and is so typical of the fear mongering regarding salmon farming in BC and Washington.
Imo, people really need to understand there are huge biological differences between farming Atlantic's where they are indigenous, (Eastern Canada, Maine, Norway, Scotland , Britain, Ireland, etc) and farming Atlantic's here. And that's why after over 40 years of salmon farming here on the Pacific (Chile is another, totally isolated story), there are no documented cases of any disease transfer from farmed to wild fish, no interbreeding of escaped Atlantic's with Pacific's, no ISA outbreaks … nothing to show farming Atlantic's in BC or Washington has impacted long term populations of wild Pacific's. But that doesn't seem to matter to many whose minds are made up.
Oh well, on with the show, and I'm sure lot's of people will show up to be filmed.
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From my understanding, if a fish farm in Canada suspects a federally reportable virus it is required by law to report it to the CFIA – even preliminary results (Fish farm companies have their own veterinary staff and do their own testing). Following this, the CFIA would likely initiate an investigation and could require the company to increase surveillance, do more sampling, order the company to take measures to restrict movements of staff and fish in the suspected area while samples are being sent to the CFIA testing lab for confirmation. I imagine these measures would be a preliminary response to try and contain a suspected virus before final confirmation is made; however, between the time the virus is first suspected and the confirmation results from the CFIA, the fish farm in question is not legally obligated to cull the suspect fish.
Farms don’t have to cull their fish if not order to, but from what fish farmers have learned from previous experience, it is not in their best interests to not take pre-emptive action (i.e. culling) if preliminary results are positive and then wait for final confirmation from the CFIA. Financially, they stand to lose a lot more if the virus spreads to adjacent farms – not just to other companies but their own operations. Confirmation results from the CFIA can take 10 to 14 days. If action is not taken after positive preliminary results, the virus could be so widespread to other farms by the time results are back from the CFIA that more culling may be required – meaning more financial losses than if the action was taken earlier (i.e. better to cut your losses sooner than wait and lose even more). If the CFIA tests confirm the federally reportable virus then they can require the company to take further measures (depending on the situation) which can include destroying infected fish and follow-up measures to confirm that the virus has been dealt with correctly.
thanks
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kudos for culling before the order to do so..... just a question, lets say a farm has suspected it has said virus, yet decides against culling until an order because of financial reasons. During that time there suspicions were correct and not only is there farm suffering, they have now transfered this to an adjacent farm. is there some sort of repsonsibility on the original farm? financially or otherwise?
--They probably own the adjacent farm so I doubt they would want to put it in danger as well. As much as I do not like fish farms (in certain areas) I believe it is in their own best interest to do the right thing.
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The circus is coming to town?! Clowns and all. Oh goody! lol :P ;D
I understand you work for one of the biggest circus's that at one time looked after our fish stocks and the environment. I hope to have an interesting letter that was written by a past employee of FOC and what has happened the past while.
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Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D
Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D
That would be great Chris since the ASFG seem unable to awnser questions here. :)
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An other one for the coffee shop chat. Too many cattle on the range and not enough grass?
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/researchers-link-salmon-ranching-to-population-decline-of-sockeye-salmon/
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I hope to have an interesting letter that was written by a past employee of FOC and what has happened the past while.
Otto Langer? He fired me from my first job with DFO, 1972 I think (I missed a rendezvous site and he was not happy) ... Should be an interesting and scathing letter.
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Looking forward to the Caravan from Prince George to Victoria in May, it will certainly get the attention once again. Hoping the PAPG will stop by and ask all the questions they keep asking here but I am afraid they are too nervous to show themselves.. ;D ;D ;D
Will post the stopping places with dates, I know Kamloops is one stop SS. ;D ;D ;D
I think this might be a good platform to inform the public about issues that are or will be impacting wild salmon in BC. What I'm afraid of however, is this protest will be focused on salmon farming, skipping over the real and key issues. I hope I'm wrong Chris, and here is your opportunity to accurately document this march for those of us interested but will not be attending.
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I think this might be a good platform to inform the public about issues that are or will be impacting wild salmon in BC. What I'm afraid of however, is this protest will be focused on salmon farming, skipping over the real and key issues. I hope I'm wrong Chris, and here is your opportunity to accurately document this march for those of us interested but will not be attending.
That is the trouble with the PAPG, they will not get involved where they should. They should be starting a group to get at the real and key issues and travel the province and put on town hall meetings explaining their points of view, I would certainly attend and listen to their platform. ;D ;D ;D
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For Dave as he always likes Eddie's wise words.
https://youtu.be/iETCogNL95w
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That is the trouble with the PAPG, they will not get involved where they should. They should be starting a group to get at the real and key issues and travel the province and put on town hall meetings explaining their points of view, I would certainly attend and listen to their platform. ;D ;D ;D
What did Doc Morton get right by doing that Chris? Oops that was a question that I suspect will receive no answer. :)
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For Dave as he always likes Eddie's wise words.
https://youtu.be/iETCogNL95w
No drums :'( Where was Eddie when he was really needed? he is a self appointed spokesman for the Sto-Lo Nation, an elder with passion and abilities to educate his people, a true salmon warrior.
But he was silent when a Sto-Lo band, just recently, ripped up gravel that most likely will have negative impacts on sturgeon in the Fraser River. The fish he loves would be better served, imo, if he picked his battles more wisely.
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What did Doc Morton get right by doing that Chris? Oops that was a question that I suspect will receive no answer. :)
The list is long but the key word is, "Awareness."
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The list is long but the key word is, "Awareness."
You could not be more right Chris. :)
"Ms. Morton’s “bug hunt” is silly, bad science and she continues to make error after error, and tenuous connection after tenuous connection in her crusade against salmon farms. There is no science here; she is using cherry-picked pieces of data and information to attack salmon farming, working backwards from her conclusion which she apparently formed long ago."
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
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You could not be more right Chris. :)
"Ms. Morton’s “bug hunt” is silly, bad science and she continues to make error after error, and tenuous connection after tenuous connection in her crusade against salmon farms. There is no science here; she is using cherry-picked pieces of data and information to attack salmon farming, working backwards from her conclusion which she apparently formed long ago."
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
Old news, Dave always gets after me if we post things from years past. ;D ;D
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Old news, Dave always gets after me if we post things from years past. ;D ;D
Oops sorry Chris. Perhaps you can help get me up to date on what she has got right since then. :)
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That is the trouble with the PAPG, they will not get involved where they should. They should be starting a group to get at the real and key issues and travel the province and put on town hall meetings explaining their points of view, I would certainly attend and listen to their platform. ;D ;D ;D
Not involved? That's where you are wrong, Chris. Some folks are involved in different ways. Not all of us are posting YouTube videos showing what we are up to. Some of us do take the time to talk to folks about salmon but it's approach is less political and more about the fish themselves. You seem so into Town Hall meetings across the province taking about the issues as you see them, but you are largely reluctant to answer some pretty basic questions from the posts you put on here - I'm assuming to make us more aware of the issues. I asked you why does the public need to know these preliminary results from these suspected cases of ISAv. Not a hard question to answer.
I have tried my best to answer your questions here. However, now you want others that apparently "pick your arguments apart" to participate in a some town hall discussion? Want to know some of the issues? Well I have only been posting about them for some time now (most recently abnormal warm water in the NE Pacific), but everytime we talk about them if it doesn't centre around salmon farms or government conspiracy then something is being hidden from you. From what I have seen of these road shows (like the canoe trip down the Fraser) they appear to be more about preaching about what they think is going on rather than actual listening.
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Not involved? That's where you are wrong, Chris. Some folks are involved in different ways. Not all of us are posting YouTube videos showing what we are up to. Some of us do take the time to talk to folks about salmon but it's approach is less political and more about the fish themselves. You seem so into Town Hall meetings across the province taking about the issues as you see them, but you are largely reluctant to answer some pretty basic questions from the posts you put on here - I'm assuming to make us more aware of the issues. I asked you why does the public need to know these preliminary results from these suspected cases of ISAv. Not a hard question to answer.
I have tried my best to answer your questions here. However, now you want others that apparently "pick your arguments apart" to participate in a some town hall discussion? Want to know some of the issues? Well I have only been posting about them for some time now (most recently abnormal warm water in the NE Pacific), but everytime we talk about them if it doesn't centre around salmon farms or government conspiracy then something is being hidden from you. From what I have seen of these road shows (like the canoe trip down the Fraser) they appear to be more about preaching about what they think is going on rather than actual listening.
Not FF related but may help you understand why our fish and the environment is suffering these days, was sent to me recently.
1973 - era of federal EARP - RSCC - Order in Council - Beginning of first EAs in Canada . Projects based on concern and impact. Term often then used was EIS - environmental impact statement.
1977- FEARO born - not under statute law - took over all from EARP - mainly a name change.
1988 - FEARO directed EA of VAFFCs jet fuel facility on the North Arm. Soundly rejected it in 1989 (final FEARO rpt. attached) due to high environmental risks. Key actors in the review are DFO and EC with public input via two public hearings. Public Panel was neutral appointees. In 2011 EAO had no public hearing and no known panel!
1995 - CEAA born. Much more bureaucratic based on legislation ie an Act of Parliament. Bigger staff and many guidelines. Guidelines determined impact based on the size of the project regardless where built. However two law triggers put into the Act - CEAA had to do an EA if the Fisheries Act habitat law was violated ie the proponent could not mitigate all the envirnmental impacts and an Authorization for HADD (harmful alteration, disruption or destruction of fish habitat) had to be issued. The same applied to NWPA - any harm to navigation to any navigable waterway in Canada.
1996 BC Environmental Assessment Act passed
2005 - Ports Canada Vancouver, North Fraser and Fraser River Harbour Commissions made into Port Metro Vancouver (PMV). A big environmental obstacle created. Responisibility for CEAA given to such national port bodies across Canada. EA in Frser river estaurynow do headed up by PMV. DFO, EC now just advisors to PMV.
In 2010-11 VAFFC voluntarily applies for EA with BC EAO - ignored the federal CEAA process that rejected them in 1989. The large project with great public and local government concern was handled by PMV as just a project screening (no need for a full fed EA or public consultation - no need for a BC EA - the project was under the project size triggers or thresholds). BC EAO accepted jet fuel in the Fraser project for review on a voluntary basis and PMV at least pretended to join the EAO in this full EA by BC standards (no public hearings and the most minimal approach to what they call a full review). PMV seemed absent from the review, no known panel, no public hearings etc. Project given Environmental Certificate in Dec 2013.
2012 Bill C38 - eliminated habitat law in Fisherie Act (so CEAA compulsary trigger on HADD now lost) and NWPA reduced to protection in about 300 big navigation waterways in Canada from about two million lakes rivers , streams, canals, etc .
Law trigger in CEAA removed - but was already gutted by above changes to Fisheries Act habitat law and and NWPA.
In 2013, 495 CEAA reviews in BC (at 3 levels of review) were reduced to five! DFO staff reduced by about 50% and Fraser River mainstem habitat protection offices closed.
2013 - the Federal Government dissolves FREMP and delegates all coordination of environmental issues to PMV (the final coup d'etat for proper environmental assessments and protection in the Fraser River Estuary)
2014 - Harper government puts Fishery Act concerns related to pipeline etc projects under jurisdiction of NEB.
2015 - EAs and protection of fish and wildlife resources (and public safety) in the Fraser River Estuary (and Canada) now set back to the pre 1973 era (1973-beginning of broad spectrum EAs). In that the 1976 Fisheries Act included habitat protection it was eliminated in 2012. In addition from 1967 to 1976 DFO had an Order in Council issued to protect fish spawning beds in BC - the BC Gravel Removal Order of 1967. It was super-ceded by the habitat law in 1976 (now gone). Now we do not even have the protection for gravel spawning beds etc that we had in 1967. Protection of key and critical gravel salmon - sturgeon - eulachon gravel spawning beds such as that now being mined at Chilliwack is now equivalent to the pre 1967 era i.e. no law to protect any fish habitat from harmful alteration - just can protect fish from serious harm which includes just permanent destruction of habitat.
DFO always would consider the dredging of 8000 cubic metres of sand out of the Fraser River a HADD and require an Authorization that would then trigger CEAA for a low level review - Environmental Screening. This is what VAFFC planned to do in 2010 at the new jet fuel tanker and Terminal area. VAFFC then will fill in the dredged hole with area with permanent rip rap. DFO always said that was a HADD. For some reason under Harper in 2010-2011 DFO said nothing about this impact and it was ignored in this review by BC EAO and PMV and DFO or EC were never to be seen in the review. In 1988 DFO and EC were very prominent and active in the public hearings associcated with that VAFFC project which was about 10X smaller than the one now proposed and immune from any compulsory EA by BC or the Feds.
CONCLUSION- We had better spawning bed protection in 1967 than we now have. That was improved in 1976 with new habitat protection laws for Canada(now gone). We had better beginnings to a proper EA in the 1973 to 1995 than we now do. In fact a VAFFC jet fuel barge project 10X smaller than the 2011 VAFFC jet fule tanker proposal was properly reviewed with two public hearings (vs none) in 2011 and rejected whereas the bigger impact project in 2011 was approved and with a minimalist EA and little proper public input. The latter item is now subject of a VAPOR Judicial Review for lack of procedural fairness.
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http://www.fnwildsalmon.org/
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http://www.fnwildsalmon.org/
It was interesting seeing that one banner about saving the Pink Salmon of the Broughton. Boy have times changed......
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It was interesting seeing that one banner about saving the Pink Salmon of the Broughton. Boy have times changed......
They sure have, lol! Record returns last year, if I recall. Again I say, good on the folks for putting this together ... just please talk about and discuss all the issues facing wild salmon, not just salmon farming.
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I see you both have shied away from my other post, I donot blame you as pretty hard to defend what has been done to our environmental laws the last while.
The point of course is, we are not getting the truth about what the harm FF could be doing either.
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More to make my point. http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/new-report-condemns-harper-governments-assault-canadas-freshwater
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Another conspiracy?
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Another conspiracy?
You have finally seen it. ;D ;D ;D
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http://youtu.be/-0We46fsi54
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It looks like Doc Morton's home country likes farmed fish. :)
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/news/?article_id=111823
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I see you both have shied away from my other post
Sort of like you shedding away from some of our questions. I don't blame you either. How do you reconcile the fact that some of the opponents you are standing alongside with that are vehemently opposed to the Aevita's hazardous recycling facility alongside the Fraser River are also supporters of gravel extraction in the heart of the Fraser River with potential negative impacts to sturgeon and wild Salmon? I mean how do you question those who are putting their political muscle behind efforts to squash this recycling facility, but are also using that same muscle somewhere else to push a project through which is not great for the environment? The drums are silent there.
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Sort of like you shedding away from some of our questions. I don't blame you either. How do you reconcile the fact that some of the opponents you are standing alongside with that are vehemently opposed to the Aevita's hazardous recycling facility alongside the Fraser River are also supporters of gravel extraction in the heart of the Fraser River with potential negative impacts to sturgeon and wild Salmon? I mean how do you question those who are putting their political muscle behind efforts to squash this recycling facility, but are also using that same muscle somewhere else to push a project through which is not great for the environment? The drums are silent there.
Just like you and I, as we have different opinions on several issues.
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Just like you and I, as we have different opinions on several issues.
Thats where I think you may be wrong Chris. Steve will answer a question while the asfg like to dodge them. Awareness at its best? :)
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http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2015/04/2014-a-record-year-for-bc-agrifood-exports.html#.VSVJwl05Aqw.twitter
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http://www.newsroom.gov.bc.ca/2015/04/2014-a-record-year-for-bc-agrifood-exports.html#.VSVJwl05Aqw.twitter
Thanks, looks like more education is needed on some of these exports. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks, looks like more education is needed on some of these exports. ;D ;D ;D
Actually, the "education" has been done and that's why it's a record year ;)
The anti salmon farmers are kinda like the Leafs .. basically good people but don't have much to work with ;D
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Actually, the "education" has been done and that's why it's a record year ;)
The anti salmon farmers are kinda like the Leafs .. basically good people but don't have much to work with ;D
The Caravan will turn a few heads, what a few days it will be. ;D ;D ;D
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The Caravan will turn a few heads, what a few days it will be. ;D ;D ;D
You may want to get out of the back yard and go to who buys the most. You know the place Chris,,,,,Mortons home country. Would have thought that the Alaska and Washington salmon farmers could have kept up with the U.S. Demand. ::)
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let's keep this cordial gentlemen. comparing an anti farmer to a leafs fan is pretty harsh. seriously. that one cut deep.
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let's keep this cordial gentlemen. comparing an anti farmer to a leafs fan is pretty harsh. seriously. that one cut deep.
LOL!
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let's keep this cordial gentlemen. comparing an anti farmer to a leafs fan is pretty harsh. seriously. that one cut deep.
Folks here will be able to make the comparisons with the Canucks after they tank in the first round.
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The importance of wild salmon. https://youtu.be/UOtkekP-sxk
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Wow, a film crew coming to film our next boycott, we will soon be Hollywood stars. ;D ;D ;D
Looking forward to some smart remarks from the PAPG. :D :D :D
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/taking-my-salmon-eggs-and-im-going-home-says-prince-william-sounds-aquaculture-corporation/
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Wow, a film crew coming to film our next boycott, we will soon be Hollywood stars. ;D ;D ;D
Looking forward to some smart remarks from the PAPG. :D :D :D
The big day is here, I hope to have some video up for those too far away to take part. ;D ;D ;D
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I am guessing the Tlatlasikwala people are not part of the "Caravan"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliccH0yCUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliccH0yCUQ)
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I am guessing the Tlatlasikwala people are not part of the "Caravan"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliccH0yCUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliccH0yCUQ)
Nice post Gordj, thanks. There are certainly more FN bands onside with fish farming than the critics like to admit ;)
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Nice post Gordj, thanks. There are certainly more FN bands onside with fish farming than the critics like to admit ;)
They may come onside like you one day. ;D ;D ;D
What a wonderful rally today, 50 people and hundred's of people informed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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They may come onside like you one day. ;D ;D ;D
What a wonderful rally today, 50 people and hundred's of people informed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Looks like you will not be out of work any time soon Chris. :)
http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/news/?article_id=112301
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They may come onside like you one day. ;D ;D ;D
What a wonderful rally today, 50 people and hundred's of people informed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Vid 1 of 4 and Dave's favorite song, dedicated to him. ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/kME23QNAhJE
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http://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news/301581131.html?mobile=true
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http://www.sookenewsmirror.com/news/301581131.html?mobile=true
Thanks for the link. Taking "The Heat" off fish farms? :P
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Thanks for the link. Taking "The Heat" off fish farms? :P
You are welcome Chris. Perhaps you can open my awareness with scientific facts on how salmon farming has harmed wild salmon in Washington or BC. :)
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I'd like to hear that as well ;D But we won't ...
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I'd like to hear that as well ;D But we won't ...
Have been posting the info for a long time so will not repost it, of course anything against FF is denied by the PAPG. :P
Another vid for your evening viewing pleasure, off to badminton now, hitting the shuttlecock hard, believing it is an____________________. :D :D :D
Enjoy. https://youtu.be/8IOAQvXALsA
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I'd like to hear that as well ;D But we won't ...
:)
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I'd like to hear that as well ;D But we won't ...
More info to move you in the correct direction.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/simon-fraser-university/lice+limit+young+salmon+ability+food/11018546/story.html#ixzz3Ytz83zb7
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Interesting photo - doesn't look like any sockeye smolt Iv'e ever seen.
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Have been posting the info for a long time so will not repost it, of course anything against FF is denied by the PAPG. :P
Another vid for your evening viewing pleasure, off to badminton now, hitting the shuttlecock hard, believing it is an____________________. :D :D :D
Enjoy. https://youtu.be/8IOAQvXALsA
Well Chris, I thought you would have posted more on this huge event, I recall movie star dreams … :D but, maybe the audience wasn’t paying attention.
More foolishness, the usual misinformation, and sadly, outright lies from Eddie Gardner, the Sto-Lo Don Staniford (or is it John Densmore ?)
I find it ironic that while the protesters were protesting the right of consumer choice, young volunteers were planting trees in the newly created salmon habitat in the lower Vedder, the Browne Creek Wetlands Project www.chilliwack.com/main/page.cfm?id=2513
I’ll leave it to the readers to decide which group did the most to benefit wild salmon.
Thursday, May 14, is the grand opening of this latest partnership of various governments and local folks who truly care about fish, waterways and all that brings ... wildlife like mink, otters, raccoons; waterfowl, herons, songbirds, raptors, reptiles and amphibians, and of course salmon.
This is really great stuff - come have a look.
All are welcome and I hope to meet a few of you there ;)
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Well Chris, I thought you would have posted more on this huge event, I recall movie star dreams … :D but, maybe the audience wasn’t paying attention.
More foolishness, the usual misinformation, and sadly, outright lies from Eddie Gardner, the Sto-Lo Don Staniford (or is it John Densmore ?)
I find it ironic that while the protesters were protesting the right of consumer choice, young volunteers were planting trees in the newly created salmon habitat in the lower Vedder, the Browne Creek Wetlands Project www.chilliwack.com/main/page.cfm?id=2513
I’ll leave it to the readers to decide which group did the most to benefit wild salmon.
Thursday, May 14, is the grand opening of this latest partnership of various governments and local folks who truly care about fish, waterways and all that brings ... wildlife like mink, otters, raccoons; waterfowl, herons, songbirds, raptors, reptiles and amphibians, and of course salmon.
This is really great stuff - come have a look.
All are welcome and I hope to meet a few of you there ;)
Hope it goes well, we will be doing our part for wild salmon on the Caravan on that date, what a great event it will be too.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/tit-for-tat-stop-selling-alaskan-salmon-everywhere-outside-of-alaska/
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Looking good these days on many fronts. >
> BIG WIN TODAY FOR WILD SALMON!!!
>
>
> Hello
>
> I am very happy to tell you that the lawsuit I launched 2 years ago today with Ecojustice finally got a decision. WE WON!!!!!
>
> The BC salmon farmers are no longer allowed to make the decision to put diseased fish in their farms! This is very significant because most of the salmon farmed in BC that I test is infected with the virus PRV.
>
> The judge examined the science on PRV and made some very strong statements.
>
> I have posted his decision at the top of this blog.
>
> It is a dark day in Canada that we have to go to court to get the science read, but at least we still have this option.
>
> My deepest thanks to Ecojustice, they worked so hard on this. We were a strong team!
>
> The industry has 4 months to comply - lots of hard work still ahead to make this stick.
>
> Thank you for staying with me through this.
>
> http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/05/we-won.html
>
> alex
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"The Department of Fisheries told the court during arguments that as many as 120 licences due to expire by the end of the year could be affected by the invalidated regulations." If only Justice Cohen's recommendations for more open testing by NGOs and government could come into practice: he said neither the salmon farming industry or DFO HAVE PROPRIETORIAL rights to testing farmed salmon.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Vancouver+court+orders+safeguards+prevent+fish+farm+disease/11037779/story.html
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/court-orders-new-safeguards-to-prevent-fish-farm-disease-spreading-to-ocean/article24315141/
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Looking good these days on many fronts. >
> BIG WIN TODAY FOR WILD SALMON!!!
>
>
> Hello
>
> I am very happy to tell you that the lawsuit I launched 2 years ago today with Ecojustice finally got a decision. WE WON!!!!!
>
> The BC salmon farmers are no longer allowed to make the decision to put diseased fish in their farms! This is very significant because most of the salmon farmed in BC that I test is infected with the virus PRV.
>
> The judge examined the science on PRV and made some very strong statements.
>
> I have posted his decision at the top of this blog.
>
> It is a dark day in Canada that we have to go to court to get the science read, but at least we still have this option.
>
> My deepest thanks to Ecojustice, they worked so hard on this. We were a strong team!
>
> The industry has 4 months to comply - lots of hard work still ahead to make this stick.
>
> Thank you for staying with me through this.
>
> http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/05/we-won.html
>
> alex
Where is shown that these fish were indeed "diseased". Instead, Morton is implying that because they have PRV that they are diseased, but just because a fish has a virus doesn't mean it has or will develop the disease. From the ruling, the major flaw is in the regulations - not the science. As for the science, well we know that PRV has existed here longer than fish farming in BC; we know that wild salmonids that tested positive of PRV show no evidence of HSMI; the genetic data bank only has a few samples of PRV in which to make comparisons to others; fish with high concentrations of PRV do not necessarily develop HSMI and most (90%) net pen Atlantic Salmon here make it to market size.
Morton contends that HSMI will negatively impact migrating adult Fraser Sockeye, making it more difficult for them to migrate upstream, but forgets that HSMI primarily impacts the juvenile life stages. But, again it is more about the actual regulations and their interpretation in ruling than the science.
The ruling seemingly states that HSMI has been found in Canada, but doesn't provide a reference for that. I would be interested to see where this came from.
Here is one of the latest studies on PRV published recently this year.
https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/70140121
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And from troutbreath's G&M post ...
"Marine Harvest, which bills itself as B.C.’s largest salmon aquaculture company, disputed that it has ever transferred unhealthy fish. Therefore, said spokesman Clare Backman, the voided clauses aren’t important to company operations.
“We don’t find the decision changes anything in our ongoing business day-to-day.”
Backman said the company provided evidence to court of the presence of PRV along the B.C. coast existing long before salmon farms. The company also claimed it is naturally occurring and not linked to any disease at all."
Best to let the dust settle before claiming any victories here folks, and beware of this ruling possibly impacting future hatchery programs.
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And from troutbreath's G&M post ...
"Marine Harvest, which bills itself as B.C.’s largest salmon aquaculture company, disputed that it has ever transferred unhealthy fish. Therefore, said spokesman Clare Backman, the voided clauses aren’t important to company operations.
“We don’t find the decision changes anything in our ongoing business day-to-day.”
Backman said the company provided evidence to court of the presence of PRV along the B.C. coast existing long before salmon farms. The company also claimed it is naturally occurring and not linked to any disease at all."
Best to let the dust settle before claiming any victories here folks, and beware of this ruling possibly impacting future hatchery programs.
I think I have heard you say you do not like hatcheries, maybe I am in error.
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No, your'e right, I don't support hatcheries, but I do understand how important they are to commercial, FN, and sports fisherman.
Without them this forum wouldn't exist.
Understand, this latest wording of this ruling means if hatchery stock are found to have an endemic virus like PRV (very likely), the fish cannot be released.
The devil is in the details ...
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No, your'e right, I don't support hatcheries, but I do understand how important they are to commercial, FN, and sports fisherman.
Without them this forum wouldn't exist.
Understand, this latest wording of this ruling means if hatchery stock are found to have an endemic virus like PRV (very likely), the fish cannot be released.
The devil is in the details ...
And the present government would most likley like this so they can pull more funds from FOC's budget.
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The latest science on PRV here in BC which didn't make it into evidence during the trial. Basically the science the judge had at the time was outdated. I'm sure Morton knows about this but why be a Debbie Downer with her supporters who are doing cartwheels right now. What they don't know won't hurt them I guess.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/pnfhpc/pubs/ireports/Piscine_Orthoreovirus_PNFHPC_Whitepaper.pdf
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It will be interesting how all this unfolds ... you know the media will want something to print, and Almo always delivers the gospel ;D when called; imo, it looks like a certain appeal to this ruling. If that happens, I wonder who pays?
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I am sure it will be appealed. In the ruling, the judge didn't like veterinary practice making these calls and sided with Section 56. Given the science at the time I can see why the judge shifted in the direction he did; however, the science has changed quite a bit since the trial began a few years back. Given what we know now about PRV here in BC, Morton's claims of PRV being this nasty virus wrecking havoc on wild Salmon don't hold much validity as she once thought they did. Who pays? Well, the respondents in the case were the Minister and Marine Harvest so I guess it would be a combination of private and public funds.
However, I agree with you that this decision (if it holds) could have implications for hatchery programs in this province.
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/news/?article_id=112797
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/dr-gary-marty-sea-lice-study-inconclusive
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Sounds familiar to what you hear on here.
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Stephen+Hume+scientist+lacked+credentials/11045116/story.html
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Sounds familiar to what you hear on here.
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Stephen+Hume+scientist+lacked+credentials/11045116/story.html
That sounds like an Almo back ground like this to me. :)
http://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
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That sounds like an Almo back ground like this to me. :)
http://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
:)
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/whats-killing-off-bcs-young-salmon/article24362542/
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/whats-killing-off-bcs-young-salmon/article24362542/
We never want to hear about the die off because of our trashed filled rivers and streams, do we?
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Sounds familiar to what you hear on here.
http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Stephen+Hume+scientist+lacked+credentials/11045116/story.html
Actually I critique her work much more than her credentials. Although I agree with Hume to a point I find it funny why he didn't do a story on how Alexandra Morton and her supporters don't actually consider the science as much they claim - instead defaulting to one's beliefs with no scientific basis. Case in point: Angela Koch (one of the FB commenters to the article).
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/whats-killing-off-bcs-young-salmon/article24362542/
Hume skipped right by Cohen's findings regarding sea lice. Not even a brief mention of what he actually concluded in regards to sea lice as a cause for Fraser Sockeye declines. If he is going to get into the scientific evidence then Cohen should have been a natural lead-in.
Whatever the source, the problem appears serious. Ms. Morton reports 94 per cent of young pink and chum salmon in the Broughton Archipelago have sea lice, and predicts a massive population crash. Fraser sockeye smolts will migrate through the area in two weeks and the same fate could await them, she warns.
“I’ve had a crew out there since April 4 and we were very surprised to see heavy concentrations of sea lice,” she said Wednesday. “We look at 100 fish at each site, so 50 pink and 50 chum and … 94 per cent are infected.” - Alexandra Morton
Found here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sea-lice-infestation-could-kill-up-to-millions-of-wild-salmon/article24300307/
The first article make it appear that 94% of the total outmigration have sea lice, but I believe it is 94% of Morton's sample (sample size is not clear in either article).
She is predicting a major population crash at the same time as this abnormally, warm "blob" of ocean water in the Pacific Northwest builds. Interesting timing.
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"The BC Salmon Farmers Association says the charge is without scientific merit, because there has been no outbreak of lice in farms and when lice are detected, fish are promptly treated with SLICE, a pesticide that is 95 per cent effective."
“Now, we don’t know whether the salmon farms failed to treat, or if their treatment failed.”
Jeremy Dunn, a spokesman for the BC Salmon Farmers Association, said sea-lice levels are currently low on farmed fish, however, and when a problem has been encountered, the fish have been treated.
The federal government, the fish farming industry and non-governmental organizations then agreed on practices to better control sea lice in farms. Some farms were fallowed when juvenile salmon were migrating past, and farmers began more rigorously treating infected fish.
Always treating. No tricking until you treat yourself to one of them dirty fish. Read it for yourself their tossing pesticides( pollutants ) into our waters because their greedy and don't want to farm any other way. But that's OK for the FF supporters.
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http://www.aquaculture.ca/files/documents/CAIA_Sealice_Info_20Dec07.pdf
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Off to the Leg. in Victoria this week re fish farm issue, making progress.
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Now in Victoria with Alex and Eddie to deliver 40 pounds of petitions with around 108,000 signatures to Christy Clark to request that FF are removed from our oceans.Hope to capture some pictures and video for SS and Dave. :D :D
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/05/on-may-8-2010-i-helped-lead-the-final-steps-of-the-get-out-migration-a-6-day-walk-down-vancouver-island-to-victoria-th.html
Numerous government salmon farm reviews since 1989, culminating in the Cohen Inquiry have all told government the same thing. Get this industry away from the wild salmon.
Show me the recommendation where Cohen said to remove the industry away from wild salmon. Not the same as a moratorium in a certain area.
A recent Federal Court decision says the Minister of Fisheries unlawfully gave the industry permission to transfer diseased farmed salmon into pens in our oceans.
There was no evidence at the trial to suggest that these transferred farm salmon were indeed diseased. Morton and Ecojustice provided no evidence to support that claim. A virus and a disease are not the same thing, but Morton uses them interchangeably. Morton knows that, but is stretching things as usual because it makes for better headlines (actually good strategy because there are apparently 108,000 people that she fooled successfully). Based on the evidence given before Nov 2013 (studies after that date were not included), the court recognized PRV as a "disease agent" (not the same has having disease) because of it's association to HSMI, no other disease agent had been found, and that PRV and HSMI was found in countries like Chile and Scotland. This is despite the fact this virus has never to been shown to actually cause disease (i.e. HSMI)....amongst other things......
http://wdfw.wa.gov/pnfhpc/pubs/ireports/Piscine_Orthoreovirus_PNFHPC_Whitepaper.pdf
Canadians are loosing a generation of wild salmon in the Broughton Archipelago to sea lice from salmon farms right now.
In her blog, Morton states her sampling results suggest that 94% of young salmon leaving the Broughton Archipelago are badly infected with lethal lice loads. However, I wonder how she can make that statement when 1) she provides no sample size (or number of sites); 2) she provides no date or size range for her sampling; 3) she provides no information where her sampling sites were located in the Archipelago; 4) she provides no total outmigration numbers of Pink and Chum from any of the streams in the Broughton Area. If your outmigration is 50 million and you sample just a fraction of that (i.e. 500) how can you confidently state with statistical certainty such a high percentage of infection? How do we know that sampling was temporally (time) and spatially (space) representative? What if her sampling was discontinued prematurely? On the other hand, on a year like this, it is possible that many smolts could have left early. Do we assume that lice loads on the front part of the outmigration were the same as the back half? What if most of her sites were at one area of Archipelago? Are all smolts in the Archipelago getting an equal chance of capture? How do we know she is not recapturing a portion of her previously sampled fish? Do we assume that the juveniles just leave the Archipelago following capture or leave the area around the site they were captured? Need more information. Now, if she said that 94% of the fish she sampled had lethal lice loads that would be different.
I asked DFO yesterday what the ramifications will this have on the companies involved. I was answered with silence! Here we go again, starving bears, lost tourism, failure of nutrients to feed the forests, loss of a valuable stock of fish
Morton should start looking at some of the other issues making headlines these days. Pretty tough when she has such a myopic view of Pacific Salmon issues.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/warm-blob-of-water-in-pacific-ocean-could-hurt-salmon-1.3001677
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/05/on-may-8-2010-i-helped-lead-the-final-steps-of-the-get-out-migration-a-6-day-walk-down-vancouver-island-to-victoria-th.html
Numerous government salmon farm reviews since 1989, culminating in the Cohen Inquiry have all told government the same thing. Get this industry away from the wild salmon.
Show me the recommendation where Cohen said to remove the industry away from wild salmon. Not the same as a moratorium in a certain area.
A recent Federal Court decision says the Minister of Fisheries unlawfully gave the industry permission to transfer diseased farmed salmon into pens in our oceans.
There was no evidence at the trial to suggest that these transferred farm salmon were indeed diseased. Morton and Ecojustice provided no evidence to support that claim. A virus and a disease are not the same thing, but Morton uses them interchangeably. Morton knows that, but is stretching things as usual because it makes for better headlines (actually good strategy because there are apparently 108,000 people that she fooled successfully). Based on the evidence given before Nov 2013 (studies after that date were not included), the court recognized PRV as a "disease agent" (not the same has having disease) because of it's association to HSMI, no other disease agent had been found, and that PRV and HSMI was found in countries like Chile and Scotland. This is despite the fact this virus has never to been shown to actually cause disease (i.e. HSMI)....amongst other things......
http://wdfw.wa.gov/pnfhpc/pubs/ireports/Piscine_Orthoreovirus_PNFHPC_Whitepaper.pdf
Canadians are loosing a generation of wild salmon in the Broughton Archipelago to sea lice from salmon farms right now.
In her blog, Morton states her sampling results suggest that 94% of young salmon leaving the Broughton Archipelago are badly infected with lethal lice loads. However, I wonder how she can make that statement when 1) she provides no sample size (or number of sites); 2) she provides no date or size range for her sampling; 3) she provides no information where her sampling sites were located in the Archipelago; 4) she provides no total outmigration numbers of Pink and Chum from any of the streams in the Broughton Area. If your outmigration is 50 million and you sample just a fraction of that (i.e. 500) how can you confidently state with statistical certainty such a high percentage of infection? How do we know that sampling was temporally (time) and spatially (space) representative? What if her sampling was discontinued prematurely? On the other hand, on a year like this, it is possible that many smolts could have left early. Do we assume that lice loads on the front part of the outmigration were the same as the back half? What if most of her sites were at one area of Archipelago? Are all smolts in the Archipelago getting an equal chance of capture? How do we know she is not recapturing a portion of her previously sampled fish? Do we assume that the juveniles just leave the Archipelago following capture or leave the area around the site they were captured? Need more information. Now, if she said that 94% of the fish she sampled had lethal lice loads that would be different.
I asked DFO yesterday what the ramifications will this have on the companies involved. I was answered with silence! Here we go again, starving bears, lost tourism, failure of nutrients to feed the forests, loss of a valuable stock of fish
Morton should start looking at some of the other issues making headlines these days. Pretty tough when she has such a myopic view of Pacific Salmon issues.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/warm-blob-of-water-in-pacific-ocean-could-hurt-salmon-1.3001677
How many issues do you thing one person can do? As I have said so many times it is time for others to tackle issues that concern them and they continue to write about and in some cases critize what others are trying to do to make things better for our world.
It is so easy to sit behind the comfort of ones computer screen. Being on the front lines so to speak with the recently completed Caravan for Wild Salmon and yesterday at the Leg. gives one a different perspective on things, you have to be there to complety understand.
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How many issues do you thing one person can do? As I have said so many times it is time for others to tackle issues that concern them and they continue to write about and in some cases critize what others are trying to do to make things better for our world.
It is so easy to sit behind the comfort of ones computer screen. Being on the front lines so to speak with the recently completed Caravan for Wild Salmon and yesterday at the Leg. gives one a different perspective on things, you have to be there to complety understand.
Personally I would like to see Steve take on that warm blob of water he brought up.
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Personally I would like to see Steve take on that warm blob of water he brought up.
Seriously, this warm water off our coast could have huge implications for salmon. I can't wait to see the spin Almo puts on the distinct possibility of far fewer salmon returning in the next few years.
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How many issues do you thing one person can do? As I have said so many times it is time for others to tackle issues that concern them and they continue to write about and in some cases critize what others are trying to do to make things better for our world.
It is so easy to sit behind the comfort of ones computer screen. Being on the front lines so to speak with the recently completed Caravan for Wild Salmon and yesterday at the Leg. gives one a different perspective on things, you have to be there to complety understand.
So, basically the ends justifies the means? Sounds even more appealing now.
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Wow what a day it was at the Leg. For anyone interested my pictures are on the Salmon are Sacred's FB page even though Dave does not do FB. ;D ;D Maybe he does not know how to get there either. ;)
Will have some video later for the PAPG.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/2014-north-pacific-salmon-catch-maintains-25-year-high/
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From Hansard when we were in Victoria.
A. Weaver: Okay. I will present a petition.
I would like to present a petition on this — probably the most irresponsible fiscal decision the government has ever made — day in the B.C. Legislature.
This is a petition by 108,848 people who are asking the government to please not issue licences of occupation to salmon farms trying to expand in British Columbia. The rationale for that I outlined in question period.
This petition very clearly identifies the wishes of British Columbians. This petition, I hope, is listened to by the government of British Columbia.
Madame Speaker: Is that a second petition, member?
A. Weaver: I have a second petition.
Now this is a petition of over 100 business organizations across the province who are essentially supporting the 109,000 individuals who signed this. These business organizations are small businesses, umbrella organizations, environmental organizations, fly fishing organizations, river societies, sailing societies — numerous societies across British Columbia.
They are asking the following: "We, the undersigned, are convinced by the published scientific evidence that open-net salmon farms are a threat to B.C. wild Pacific salmon."
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A. Weaver: The Cohen commission recommended that fish farms not be located on sockeye salmon migration routes, yet this week millions of sockeye fry will be migrating past fish farms in the Discovery Passage and Broughton Archipelago.
Scientific research has suggested a link between fish farm lice outbreaks and the spread of diseases like the piscine reovirus, salmonid alphavirus and the infectious salmon anemia virus The spread, obviously, of such diseases would have grave environmental, cultural and economic consequences for the province of British Columbia, let alone Canada.
Finally, a first in North America, the 'Namgis Nation on northern Vancouver Island is farming Atlantic salmon at a land-based facility without posing any disease or sea lice threat to wild salmon.
To the Minister of Agriculture: what is the government doing to stop the expansion of open-pen fish farms in the ocean and to promote the creation of more operations like the one the 'Namgis Nation operates?
Hon. N. Letnick: Thank you to the member opposite for the question. Our government is committed to the socially and ecologically responsible management of B.C. fisheries, including an environmentally and economically sustainable aquaculture industry for the benefit of all British Columbians.
We place the health of all wild fisheries, including salmon, as paramount. That's why the government works with our federal counterparts and aquaculture operators to monitor for diseases and is prepared to implement a prompt, coordinated and science-based response if necessary.
I want to remind the members opposite that the Supreme Court of Canada has already ruled that the jurisdiction of licensing is that of the federal government and tenures is that of the provincial government.
The approval for licensing on the federal government side is quite high. They look for applications that can be rejected for anything to do with biotoxins, water quality, impacts to the environment, impacts to spawning areas, cumulative impact to fisheries and impact to navigable waters.
It's also very high on the province's role. We accept Land Act applications for new salmon aquaculture sites from companies that demonstrate world-class standards for resource sustainability.
[1430]
A. Weaver: Thank you to the minister for referring to the Supreme Court ruling, which in fact, actually, ensures that the province continues to retain jurisdiction over issuing land tenures that designate the area a fish farm will occupy.
Although section 8 of the Land Use Operational Policy for Aquaculture cites the provincial government's sustainability principles as informing leasing decisions, current operating practices indicate these values are not being
HSE - 20150527 PM 013/ACR/1430
retain jurisdiction over issuing land tenures that designate the area a fish farm will occupy. Although section 8 of the Land Use Operational Policy for Aquaculture cites the provincial government's sustainability principles as informing leasing decisions, current operating practices indicate these values are not being adequately applied.
Earlier this month the federal court ruled against an aquaculture licence condition that allowed diseased fish to be transferred into open-pen fish farms, and DFO — that's federal, of course — has been given four months to fix this policy. Nevertheless, there remains provincial jurisdiction.
Given that we currently lack the regulations needed to verify the presence and control the spread of pathogens in farmed salmon, will the Minister of Agriculture today commit to stop granting new licences of occupation for this industry on sockeye salmon migration routes?
Hon. N. Letnick: Again, I have to repeat that the government is committed to the socially and ecologically responsible management of B.C. fisheries. That's why we employ two of the outstanding experts in fish biology right here in British Columbia. That's why we have the great lab in Abbotsford, to make sure we continue testing for fish diseases.
The federal government is conducting a surveillance program on ISA, as the member has said, and the status of three viruses on the west coast — ISA, IHN and PRV. So far all results were negative, no virus.
When we look at IHN, they tested a total of 1,300 B.C. wild salmon and trout for IHN in 2012-2013. Again, all were negative, no virus.
Sea lice are native to B.C. waters, like many other wild animals which have a population cycle trend. What they find is the more that come during one season, the more potential for sea lice in the following season.
Once again, we take very seriously our role in the provision of licensing and also in tenuring. We will continue to hold those values very high to make sure that our wild salmon are protected in British Columbia.
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http://globalnews.ca/video/2024428/petition-to-halt-expansion-of-open-net-salmon-farms-presented-in-bc-legislature
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From Hansard when we were in Victoria.
A. Weaver: Okay. I will present a petition.
I would like to present a petition on this — probably the most irresponsible fiscal decision the government has ever made — day in the B.C. Legislature.
This is a petition by 108,848 people who are asking the government to please not issue licences of occupation to salmon farms trying to expand in British Columbia. The rationale for that I outlined in question period.
This petition very clearly identifies the wishes of British Columbians. This petition, I hope, is listened to by the government of British Columbia.
Madame Speaker: Is that a second petition, member?
A. Weaver: I have a second petition.
Now this is a petition of over 100 business organizations across the province who are essentially supporting the 109,000 individuals who signed this. These business organizations are small businesses, umbrella organizations, environmental organizations, fly fishing organizations, river societies, sailing societies — numerous societies across British Columbia.
They are asking the following: "We, the undersigned, are convinced by the published scientific evidence (only the evidence we approve of - the rest we turn a blind-eye to) that open-net salmon farms are a threat to B.C. wild Pacific salmon."
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A. Weaver: The Cohen commission recommended that fish farms not be located on sockeye salmon migration routes (False, he didn't say that. Read Vol 3.; Ch. 2; pages 20-26), yet this week millions of sockeye fry (Huh? Would that be smolts?) will be migrating past fish farms in the Discovery Passage and Broughton Archipelago.
Scientific research has suggested a link between fish farm lice outbreaks and the spread of diseases like the piscine reovirus, salmonid alphavirus and the infectious salmon anemia virus (Someone didn't read Cohen or refer much to his findings) The spread, obviously, of such diseases would have grave environmental, cultural and economic consequences for the province of British Columbia, let alone Canada.
Finally, a first in North America, the 'Namgis Nation on northern Vancouver Island is farming Atlantic salmon at a land-based facility without posing any disease or sea lice threat to wild salmon.
To the Minister of Agriculture: what is the government doing to stop the expansion of open-pen fish farms in the ocean and to promote the creation of more operations like the one the 'Namgis Nation operates?
Hon. N. Letnick: Thank you to the member opposite for the question. Our government is committed to the socially and ecologically responsible management of B.C. fisheries, including an environmentally and economically sustainable aquaculture industry for the benefit of all British Columbians.
We place the health of all wild fisheries, including salmon, as paramount. That's why the government works with our federal counterparts and aquaculture operators to monitor for diseases and is prepared to implement a prompt, coordinated and science-based response if necessary.
I want to remind the members opposite that the Supreme Court of Canada has already ruled that the jurisdiction of licensing is that of the federal government (thank Morton for that) and tenures is that of the provincial government.
The approval for licensing on the federal government side is quite high. They look for applications that can be rejected for anything to do with biotoxins, water quality, impacts to the environment, impacts to spawning areas, cumulative impact to fisheries and impact to navigable waters.
It's also very high on the province's role. We accept Land Act applications for new salmon aquaculture sites from companies that demonstrate world-class standards for resource sustainability.
[1430]
A. Weaver: Thank you to the minister for referring to the Supreme Court ruling, which in fact, actually, ensures that the province continues to retain jurisdiction over issuing land tenures that designate the area a fish farm will occupy.
Although section 8 of the Land Use Operational Policy for Aquaculture cites the provincial government's sustainability principles as informing leasing decisions, current operating practices indicate these values are not being
HSE - 20150527 PM 013/ACR/1430
retain jurisdiction over issuing land tenures that designate the area a fish farm will occupy. Although section 8 of the Land Use Operational Policy for Aquaculture cites the provincial government's sustainability principles as informing leasing decisions, current operating practices indicate these values are not being adequately applied.
Earlier this month the federal court ruled against an aquaculture licence condition that allowed diseased fish (never shown to be in fact "diseased") to be transferred into open-pen fish farms, and DFO — that's federal, of course — has been given four months to fix this policy. Nevertheless, there remains provincial jurisdiction.
Given that we currently lack the regulations needed to verify the presence and control the spread of pathogens in farmed salmon (False), will the Minister of Agriculture today commit to stop granting new licences of occupation for this industry on sockeye salmon migration routes?
Hon. N. Letnick: Again, I have to repeat that the government is committed to the socially and ecologically responsible management of B.C. fisheries. That's why we employ two of the outstanding experts in fish biology right here in British Columbia. That's why we have the great lab in Abbotsford, to make sure we continue testing for fish diseases.
The federal government is conducting a surveillance program on ISA, as the member has said, and the status of three viruses on the west coast — ISA, IHN and PRV. So far all results were negative, no virus.
When we look at IHN, they tested a total of 1,300 B.C. wild salmon and trout for IHN in 2012-2013. Again, all were negative, no virus.
Sea lice are native to B.C. waters, like many other wild animals which have a population cycle trend. What they find is the more that come during one season, the more potential for sea lice in the following season.
Once again, we take very seriously our role in the provision of licensing and also in tenuring. We will continue to hold those values very high to make sure that our wild salmon are protected in British Columbia.
Who's job was it to pass along this information to Weaver? I guess you get what you pay for when you get a politician to talk about this stuff.
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Love it when the problems in Chile and Norway are linked to non existent problems in BC or Washington.
Carry on Chris ... ::)
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Just keeping the 2 lone wolves in the wilderness informed. ;D ;D
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Love it when the problems in Chile and Norway are linked to non existent problems in BC or Washington.
Carry on Chris ... ::)
Please give one of your liberal friends some info so they are informed with the truth as you see it. I am sure SS will as well.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/if-salmon-are-grown-in-the-ocean-does-anybody-hear/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/if-salmon-are-grown-in-the-ocean-does-anybody-hear/
Thanks bob for bringing American aquaculture programs to the front, again. Even native Alaskans are questioning their own policies of releasing millions and millions of hatchery salmon, mostly cheap and relatively easily raised pinks and chums .. and especially so when recent data suggests an overabundance of ocean rearing pinks could be impacting Fraser River sockeye.
Seems like an issue American born Almo, the salmon saviour, would be taking on, no? LOL!!
http://www.watershed-watch.org/publications/files/AKhatcheries.pdf
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/what-is-salmon-ranching/
http://blogfishx.blogspot.ca/2010/10/alaskas-not-wild-salmon.html
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It wasn't passed along to Weaver the other day by Morton so the issue doesn't exist, Dave. Again, only evidence they approve of - the rest they turn a blind eye to. The ends justifies the means. Stick to the script and conform or you clearly don't love wild salmon, Dave...lol. :P
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It wasn't passed along to Weaver the other day by Morton so the issue doesn't exist, Dave. Again, only evidence they approve of - the rest they turn a blind eye to. The ends justifies the means. Stick to the script and conform or you clearly don't love wild salmon, Dave...lol. :P
I am sure you will have passed it on to Weaver by now, what was his response? ;) Maybe Dave did as well, looingk forward to hearing about this from the two of you. ;D ;D
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I must get the video of the action at the Leg, for your viewing pleasure, I will on my return from fishing.
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/consumption-farm-raised-seafood-surpasses-wild-catch
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/consumption-farm-raised-seafood-surpasses-wild-catch
Kinda cool .. I was involved with 'Salmon in the Classrooms' for years, and now there's an 'Aquaculture in the Classrooms' program ...
Wow, what to read into this ???
I'm sure Chris will blame some out of favour politician for this scandal ;)
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Kinda cool .. I was involved with 'Salmon in the Classrooms' for years, and now there's an 'Aquaculture in the Classrooms' program ...
Wow, what to read into this ???
I'm sure Chris will blame some out of favour politician for this scandal ;)
Read in to it? Supported by FF people?
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I must get the video of the action at the Leg, for your viewing pleasure, I will on my return from fishing.
Well I am back, first of many I filmed from Victoria.
https://youtu.be/xvTt2QnpGeE
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2010/12/alexandra-morton-correspondence.html
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2010/12/alexandra-morton-correspondence.html
Just another member of the PAPG. ;D ;D
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Read into it Chris. Doc Morton is funded by American foundations that seem to have no problem with salmon farms in their own country. :)
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Fight the battles on ones home turf. By the way my cousin just got back from a visit to Norway, he has some bad news back there will get the details for you ASAP.
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Fight the battles on ones home turf. By the way my cousin just got back from a visit to Norway, he has some bad news back there will get the details for you ASAP.
Perhaps Doc Morton will take your advice. She seems to have lost it here. :)
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Perhaps Doc Morton will take your advice. She seems to have lost it here. :)
Sorry but this is her home turf and has been for many years. We are so lucky to have her fighting this important issue for us.
As you may know big buisness, only interested making money for themselves and share holders have sacrificed so much over the years to reach their ends and they continue to this day. If it was not for people like Alex things would be a lot worse.
vid 2.https://youtu.be/iZuaIS0s7g4
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What has she got right and just what has she done to enhance wild salmon Chris? Realy no telling what her bank roll is in her home country. You seem to know her out of country marketing investors well. Keep me posted when Doc Morton ever gets something right. LOL
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
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What has she got right and just what has she done to enhance wild salmon Chris? Realy no telling what her bank roll is in her home country. You seem to know her out of country marketing investors well. Keep me posted when Doc Morton ever gets something right. LOL
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
Sorry but what every I post you will find fault but I understand as you most likely have some connection to FF or have friends that do. SS is connected in some way that effects and shows in his posts. I am just a volunteer that works on a few fronts, google my name but you most likely have. I hide nothing and my name is out there and I wish more would not be afraid to do the same. :o
Of course our relative Rachel Notley Premier of Alberta will be more friendly to our enviroment, at least I hope so.
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http://www.fishfarmingxpert.com/Displaypage/?article_id=113606
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SS is connected in some way that effects and shows in his posts.
LOL...Connected?....Whatever.
"Anybody that disagrees must be connected to the industry" response is pretty weak now.
Was the petition printed on recycled paper? Oh well, wild salmon feed the trees like Morton says so it's ok.
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Vid 3 from the Leg. https://youtu.be/-wZVLPwsm9w
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Vid 3 from the Leg. https://youtu.be/-wZVLPwsm9w
Looks like another protest that was not well attended, but I guess you're getting used to that, lol!
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Looks like another protest that was not well attended, but I guess you're getting used to that, lol!
Sorry to have to correct you again.lol It was not a protest, if was to deliver the petition. Of course with FB and social media it reaches thousands. Of course you are still in the dark ages as you donot know or check FB. :D ;D ;D
I will have some first hand news soon re some very bad news from Norway to share that could send the PAPG on their way. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sorry to have to correct you again.lol It was not a protest, if was to deliver the petition.
You've been protesting so long you don't even know you're doing it ;D
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LOL...Connected?....Whatever.
"Anybody that disagrees must be connected to the industry" response is pretty weak now.
Was the petition printed on recycled paper? Oh well, wild salmon feed the trees like Morton says so it's ok.
I am sure you are a government or industry mouth-piece from the way to go on in your posts.
A few sentences would get your point across but you go on for pages.
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I am sure you are a government or industry mouth-piece from the way to go on in your posts.
A few sentences would get your point across but you go on for pages.
;D ;D ;D
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I am sure you are a government or industry mouth-piece from the way to go on in your posts.
A few sentences would get your point across but you go on for pages.
Chris knows exactly who SS is and what he does for a living, lol! This is all part of the game CG loves and that is deflections and disturbing $hit! ;)
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Chris knows exactly who SS is and what he does for a living, lol! This is all part of the game CG loves and that is deflections and disturbing $hit! ;)
I have not exposed him in respect but waiting for him to tells us where and who he works for.
And http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/2900487/is_canadas_government_trying_to_kill_off_the_wild_salmon.html
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You haven't exposed him? good on you as anyone with half a brain would already know his occupation.
But why should he tell us Chris? Aren't forums meant to be anonymous? 'Scept for you and me, obviously :D
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I am sure you are a government or industry mouth-piece from the way to go on in your posts.
A few sentences would get your point across but you go on for pages.
I am sure that you are wrong.
If you don't like it then don't read it.
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I am sure that you are wrong.
If you don't like it then don't read it.
That's the point - I usually don't read them.
I'm not here to pick fights but I don't understand why pro-ff people post here.
It's like going on a forum by PETA and yelling "I LOVE STEAK" every day.
You are bound to get some flack.
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That's the point - I usually don't read them.
I'm not here to pick fights but I don't understand why pro-ff people post here.
It's like going on a forum by PETA and yelling "I LOVE STEAK" every day.
You are bound to get some flack.
Perhaps for the same reason Anti-fishfarm people post here. Public awareness? :)
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That's the point - I usually don't read them.
I'm not here to pick fights but I don't understand why pro-ff people post here.
It's like going on a forum by PETA and yelling "I LOVE STEAK" every day.
You are bound to get some flack.
You will notice 90% of the posts by pro farmers are refuting the "facts" presented by the antis. It's human nature to try to right wrongs, in this case misinformation.
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I'm not here to pick fights but I don't understand why pro-ff people post here.
I am very sorry but I thought this was an open discussion forum. From what I hear, you may want to go to FB for a one sided rant and rave. :)
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Bob is right - it's an open forum where opinions are expressed free of intimidation and bullying. However, it appears that some wish to make this about personalities rather than the issues. Hopefully we can bring this back to the issues without having the moderators getting involved. I fully expect to get flack but those that dish out flack should expect in return. The thing is that flack doesn't mean that people have to get personal in order to get their point across. Now I'm going back to fishing now.
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Bob is right - it's an open forum where opinions are expressed free of intimidation and bullying. However, it appears that some wish to make this about personalities rather than the issues. Hopefully we can bring this back to the issues without having the moderators getting involved. I fully expect to get flack but those that dish out flack should expect in return. The thing is that flack doesn't mean that people have to get personal in order to get their point across. Now I'm going back to fishing now.
When you get to my age flack does not bother me at all as I know I have done my best on several environmental issues.
I know I am not right on all issues but in starting numerous sports groups (Hockey and Fastball ) Chilliwack River Action Committee, Fraser Valley Salmon Society, 30 years ago, Chilliwack Motor Sport Awarness Committee (Where they wanted to build this racetrack right next to the Vedder Canal and on prime farmland, we won that one, Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society, Fraser River Gravel Stewardship, a member only, Sportsfishing Defense Alliance with Bill Otway, committee member, Fraser Valley Illegal Dumping Alliance committee member and a Committe member re the Hazardous waste plant that was the wrong place to be placed.
Not trying to boast only to show I start groups and volunteer my time on issues that I think are important to me and many others. I am not one to sit back and just take things in stride and I will continue to do so no matter what others say.
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Awesome bio Chris, and kudos to you, but what has this to do with salmon farming in BC? ??? After all, that's what this thread is about.
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Awesome bio Chris, and kudos to you, but what has this to do with salmon farming in BC? ??? After all, that's what this thread is about.
Probaley just deflecting that I often am accused of or maybe just boasting, a beak I would be then, a disease like an FF Atlantic...lol
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/federal-court-ruling-threatens-salmon-farms-bottom-line/
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http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150607-salmon-aquaculture-canada-fish-farm-food-world/
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When you get to my age flack does not bother me at all as I know I have done my best on several environmental issues.
I know I am not right on all issues but in starting numerous sports groups (Hockey and Fastball ) Chilliwack River Action Committee, Fraser Valley Salmon Society, 30 years ago, Chilliwack Motor Sport Awarness Committee (Where they wanted to build this racetrack right next to the Vedder Canal and on prime farmland, we won that one, Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society, Fraser River Gravel Stewardship, a member only, Sportsfishing Defense Alliance with Bill Otway, committee member, Fraser Valley Illegal Dumping Alliance committee member and a Committe member re the Hazardous waste plant that was the wrong place to be placed.
Not trying to boast only to show I start groups and volunteer my time on issues that I think are important to me and many others. I am not one to sit back and just take things in stride and I will continue to do so no matter what others say.
Kudos to all the volunteer work you do, but what does the above have anything to do with what I just posted previously?
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/federal-court-ruling-threatens-salmon-farms-bottom-line/
Nothing slippery about the language at all. Those fish were never shown to be diseased (i.e. HSMI) even after 9 months and there was never any evidence presented during the trial that showed that. Having PRV doesn't necessarily mean that the fish is diseased because healthy and unhealthy Atlantic Salmon can have PRV.
Grigg never talks about the recent research on PRV - like the fact that PRV has been found in preserved wild fish samples before salmon farming had started in BC.
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And as expected the ruling is being appealed and new evidence will be presented.
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Bob is right - it's an open forum where opinions are expressed free of intimidation and bullying. However, it appears that some wish to make this about personalities rather than the issues. Hopefully we can bring this back to the issues without having the moderators getting involved. I fully expect to get flack but those that dish out flack should expect in return. The thing is that flack doesn't mean that people have to get personal in order to get their point across. Now I'm going back to fishing now.
No need to get all pissy and claim bullying.
What I was trying to say was I don't understand why people expend so much time and energy protecting the interests in foreign owned fish farm companies when they claim to have no financial interest in the industry.
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No need to get all pissy and claim bullying.
What I was trying to say was I don't understand why people expend so much time and energy protecting the interests in foreign owned fish farm companies when they claim to have no financial interest in the industry.
I have as much interest financially in the BC fish farm industry as I do with carrying on a discussion with someone that erroneously calls me industry or government "mouth piece" while claiming not wanting to pick any fights here.
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http://commonsensecanadian.ca/federal-court-ruling-threatens-salmon-farms-bottom-line/
Now if those fishfarmers were forced to stop giving out " Brown Noser " awards ......
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Taken from another site but an easy to read summary of disease issues between farmed Atlantics and wild Pacific salmon. Should be required reading for those unsure of their stance on salmon farming here in BC and Washington.
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/346df840-157b-41a3-ad58-cf9783426f9a/Information+about+wild-farm+salmon+interactionsGDMarty2015-03-16.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
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http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/346df840-157b-41a3-ad58-cf9783426f9a/Information+about+wild-farm+salmon+interactionsGDMarty2015-03-16.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i110.full
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Ha ha, I was expecting "he's a shill for the industry" post. Probably coming ...
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Taken from another site but an easy to read summary of disease issues between farmed Atlantics and wild Pacific salmon. Should be required reading for those unsure of their stance on salmon farming here in BC and Washington.
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/346df840-157b-41a3-ad58-cf9783426f9a/Information+about+wild-farm+salmon+interactionsGDMarty2015-03-16.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
Thank you Dave. Was a great read. :)
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/cermaq-canada-certifies-multiple-farms-asc-standard
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http://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/%7B241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c%7D/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved
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http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+dispute+findings+provincial+report+that+minimizes/11131293/story.html
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There is "considerable evidence, both in B.C. and otherwise, that sea lice, for example, have a major effect on wild fish," said Dill, adding that the cause of death of most fish in fish farms is not determined.
They should put Marty out to pasture. But to be fair they probably didn't consult with Steve before disputing Marty's propaganda. :P
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There is "considerable evidence, both in B.C. and otherwise, that sea lice, for example, have a major effect on wild fish," said Dill, adding that the cause of death of most fish in fish farms is not determined.
They should put Marty out to pasture. But to be fair they probably didn't consult with Steve before disputing Marty's propaganda. :P
Yep, with a lot of meetings etc. out of the way time to get away for some fishing trips now so may not be finding things for the PAPG, will be good for SS as he will have more time away from pounding like like mad on his key board. Enjoy the summer boys, next up is the Chilliwack Vedder Cleanup Socities BC Rivers Day on September 27.
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There is "considerable evidence, both in B.C. and otherwise, that sea lice, for example, have a major effect on wild fish," said Dill, adding that the cause of death of most fish in fish farms is not determined.
They should put Marty out to pasture. But to be fair they probably didn't consult with Steve before disputing Marty's propaganda. :P
If the Dill and the authors were hoping to achieve "a more complete and balanced assessment of the scientific literature" then they missed the mark as they did their own omitting and cherry-picking to put their best foot forward. It far from complete. No mention of growing Pink salmon abundance in the North Pacific for one. No mention of recent studies on PRV is another. No mention of the ocean blob of warm water off our coast and the probable implications on salmon here. It's only been documented by researchers in Canada and the US since 2013, but apparently not part of "a more complete and balanced assessment of the scientific literature". Dill take bits and pieces of the Cohen Report to make his point and leaves out a lot more, but I guess he needs to make his case the best way he can. I think it's strange for Dill to label Marty as biased when his own letter shows the biases of this group of scientists. I mean if the authors want to really use the "bias card" to bash Marty with then one doesn't have too look hard to see the one "independent" biologist they all align with on these issues and have worked with.....who also omits and chooses data to satisfy her own theories. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
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Yep, with a lot of meetings etc. out of the way time to get away for some fishing trips now so may not be finding things for the PAPG, will be good for SS as he will have more time away from pounding like like mad on his key board. Enjoy the summer boys, next up is the Chilliwack Vedder Cleanup Socities BC Rivers Day on September 27.
Chris Gadsden: 11957 posts on this board (soon to be 11958)
Me: 698 posts on this board
Seems like Chris is the clear leader in the "pounding the keyboard" category. Enjoy your summer, Chris. Maybe the rest of us will catch up to your post total........when the Canucks hoist the Stanley Cup. :P
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Chris Gadsden: 11957 posts on this board (soon to be 11958)
Me: 698 posts on this board
Seems like Chris is the clear leader in the "pounding the keyboard" category. Enjoy your summer, Chris. Maybe the rest of us will catch up to your post total........when the Canucks hoist the Stanley Cup. :P
Ah but mine are short like this. https://youtu.be/IuZFMHIuOxQ ;D ;D
Hope you have some holiday time and when you are down visting Dave let me know. ;D ;D
Maybe come to our BC Rivers Day and help us cleanup up the river from.........., no garbage. ;D ;D ;D
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r SS as he will have more time away from pounding like like mad on his key board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uekLLXcg-ng
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Chris Gadsden: 11957 posts on this board (soon to be 11958)
Me: 698 posts on this board
Seems like Chris is the clear leader in the "pounding the keyboard" category. Enjoy your summer, Chris. Maybe the rest of us will catch up to your post total........when the Canucks hoist the Stanley Cup. :P
And of course you do not have a lot of posts as you mostly just write about FF and protecting your government on a few others environmently issue. ;D
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http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/british-columbia/ocean-blob-of-warm-water-bringing-poor-food-for-b-c-wild-salmon-1.3104681
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http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/british-columbia/story/1.3116914?fb_action_ids=10152823333226269&fb_action_types=og.shares&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B1016430995057507%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.shares%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/sci-tech/giant-toxic-algae-bloom-off-west-coast-may-be-largest-ever-1.2428105
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So did I miss much.....lol
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Well, you're back in time to donate to her latest court case, the appeal of her last "victory" ;D
Lawyers must love this lady.
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I am back , I know you have missed my posts, the PAPG has missed me I know, go at it.lol
http://huffstrategy.com/MediaManager/release/Pacific-Coast-Wild-Salmon-Society/12-5-15/Salmon-Confidential-the-ugly-truth-about-Canadas-open-net-salmon-/3108.html
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http://globalnews.ca/news/2076585/warm-weather-and-drought-like-conditions-impacting-fish/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/1029685950376139/
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/1027990957212305/
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Thought I would beat Chris with this ;)
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/
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Thought I would beat Chris with this ;)
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/
Thought you were camping for a month, could not stay away from FWR? https://www.change.org/p/christy-clark-deny-the-permits-for-two-new-salmon-feedlots-in-clayoquot-sound?recruiter=51824317&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-no_msg&fb_ref=Default
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I tried to download your link three times without success Chris. Yeah, camping for a month or 2 was the plan but Mollythedog has some serious health issues so we are close to home and her vet. Those who know me understand I'm a fish guy and a dog guy, and I might lose my dog to this :(
The header sounds like another petition/protest coming up? One has to think Almo has run out of donors, all but you perhaps ... I think she is done.
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Hope poor Molly recovers as I know she is such a great companion for you.
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Hope poor Molly recovers as I know she is such a great companion for you.
You're a class act Chris, much appreciated.
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http://grist.org/food/everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-fish-farming-but-were-afraid-to-ask/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/time-after-time-the-same-incorrect-message/
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Darn farms have hurt the Fraser pink run, estimate is down to 6 million, what a shame.
Also the latest Boycott vid. https://youtu.be/U1H1byF7gJE
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Darn farms have hurt the Fraser pink run, estimate is down to 6 million, what a shame.
The sad thing is you probably believe that ...
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The sad thing is you probably believe that ...
The goo
d news the T. is full of jacks, limit in 15 minutes, no sign of pinks.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-17/hungry-fish-farms-lure-cargill-as-seafood-demand-grows
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/mother-nature-is-a-public-relations-expert/
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/mother-nature-is-a-public-relations-expert/
LOL!! great post Bob.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/who-invited-crazy/
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Poor Almo, she really doesn't have much left :'( Even Chris has stopped fronting her ...
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As the article states this protest started out as a grevience with internal political process in the native community where a few band members were protesting the process and the cheifs lack of transparency.
I think this is good but it quickly turned into an anti salmon farming protest where all the big names appeared and guys from the res be like WTF?
In the end all was settled between the original protesters from the res and the farm company and the Chiefs yet Morton and other outsiders remain for a couple more days grandstanding on the site and refusing to leave and claiming a victory for themselves.
Sad that the initial issue was lost in the muck.
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http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Nova+Scotia+land+raised+salmon+proof+business+viable+environmentalists/11390469/story.html
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As the article states this protest started out as a grevience with internal political process in the native community where a few band members were protesting the process and the cheifs lack of transparency.
I think this is good but it quickly turned into an anti salmon farming protest where all the big names appeared and guys from the res be like WTF?
In the end all was settled between the original protesters from the res and the farm company and the Chiefs yet Morton and other outsiders remain for a couple more days grandstanding on the site and refusing to leave and claiming a victory for themselves.
Sad that the initial issue was lost in the muck.
You mean the muck under the FF's. ::)
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/09/25/alexs-astounding-ignorance-of-science-showcased-yet-again-in-error-riddled-pox-claims/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/09/29/critics-still-talking-crap-about-farmed-salmon-poop/
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Blinders still on?
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/stop-grumbling-and-get-involved
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Thanks Bob for keeping the general public up to speed on the misinformation regarding salmon farming here in BC and Washington. Funny, Almo seems to have dropped out of the spotlight for some time now ... hopefully she's putting her considerable energy and passion into something more meaningful for wild salmon.
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http://www.genuinewitty.com/2015/10/17/green-party-candidate-funds-racists-astroturf-attack-on-first-nations-democracy-feat-lisa-barrett/
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An interesting read Bob, thanks!
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11444543
"During that El Niño, a weather phenomenon that usually lasts nine to 12 months and brings warmer and drier winters, Davies noticed a huge influx of mackerel, not usually fished up north. They ate up the salmon fry and killed the herring fishery. He worries they may return."
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/corporate-branding-and-a-soccer-moms-awesome-fail/
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/ocean-scientists-call-on-liberals-to-restore-fisheries-act-unmuzzle-researchers-1.3286407
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/kids-as-collateral-damage-no-problem-says-activist-mom/
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Is this why doc morton does not protest the salmon farming that happens in her home country? She wants land based farming here. LOL. Well worth the watch. You may have to watch it more than once since it moves along fast. It gets interesting at 58 minutes. I like the questions this guy puts forth that do not get answered. Who funds Morton? Yes I will still be a meat eater and sport fish. No land left. Time to farm the sea.
http://youtu.be/5Qhbso9UQ_E
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Who funds Bawb ? Seems like you have a real hate on for American women :P :P Were the largest exporter of the dirty fish to the USA so maybe people who don't like that fund her. Maybe Captain Highliner. You use to fund her so what's the big deal?
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/liar-see-what-you-think/
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http://www.bclocalnews.com/business/340004261.html?mobile=true
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Is this why doc morton does not protest the salmon farming that happens in her home country? She wants land based farming here. LOL. Well worth the watch. You may have to watch it more than once since it moves along fast. It gets interesting at 58 minutes. I like the questions this guy puts forth that do not get answered. Who funds Morton? Yes I will still be a meat eater and sport fish. No land left. Time to farm the sea.
http://youtu.be/5Qhbso9UQ_E
Today, The Wild Fish Conservancy filed legal action against the US Environmental Protection Agency and the National Marine Fisheries for allowing salmon farms in Puget Sound!
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This law suit will be fun to follow, seems a no brainer American born Almo will get behind this, no? probably Fast Eddy Gardner too ;D
Would love to see you and him protesting at some yankee grocery chain stores or, perhaps Pike Market ;D
Right ... the Leafs have a better chance of winning the cup than that happening.
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Today, The Wild Fish Conservancy filed legal action against the US Environmental Protection Agency and the National Marine Fisheries for allowing salmon farms in Puget Sound!
Can you provide a link Chris?
Never mind. It seems they are against closed containment also.
http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/press-room/press-releases/wild-fish-conservancy-center-for-environmental-law-policy-file-legal-action-to-clean-up-leavenworth-hatchery-water-pollution
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http://www.theoutdoorline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2213
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Saw this on FB today, SS will be happy too, I think.
"My son is a fisheries biologist with Canada's Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Here's his spirit-lifting post from yesterday. "It is official. At an all staff meeting today with some of the best scientists in the world, certainly the ones who know our coast better than anyone (and I am lucky enough to work for some of them), we were told that it's ok to talk to the media or anyone about what we do without permission. That's how surreal it was. That's how things changed over night."
I feel like I'm in one of those post-apocalyptic movies where there's nothing but darkness and sorrow and hard times, and then right at the end of the movie there's a scene of the sun rising over a new world and it's like everything just might turn out OK. People, we must never again let our government plunge us into such a fearful, secretive, divisive state."
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Good news for sure but fwiw I don't believe Steve was ever asked to keep his thoughts to himself as his managers are far brighter than that, but if he was, good on him for speaking out anyway and informing the general public on fisheries issues.
This site and the others he frequents owe him a big thanks during this so called silence regime :D
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Good news for sure but fwiw I don't believe Steve was ever asked to keep his thoughts to himself as his managers are far brighter than that, but if he was, good on him for speaking out anyway and informing the general public on fisheries issues.
This site and the others he frequents owe him a big thanks during this so called silence regime :D
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/11/06/muzzles-removed-for-federal-scientists-at-department-of-fisheries-and-oceans.html?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=a86a039202-Salmon_News_Nov_6_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-a86a039202-166912013
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Thanks Chris. Now we can hear from "real scientists" and just not from people doing dog science looking for hand outs. :)
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Thanks Chris. Now we can hear from "real scientists" and just not from people doing dog science looking for hand outs. :)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/krist-miller-scientist-dfo-muzzled-1.3308549
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Cheers Chris. It looks like it is Miller Time again lol:)
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/technology/scientist-says-fish-farms-may-not-affect-wild-salmon-1.1025956
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Cheers Chris. It looks like it is Miller Time again lol:)
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/technology/scientist-says-fish-farms-may-not-affect-wild-salmon-1.1025956
The date 2011, may make some us a bit supicious. ;)
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The date 2011, may make some us a bit supicious. ;)
You're always suspicious when things don't go the way you wanted them to ;)
Since 2011 lots has happened including near record runs of fish, disasters like warm ocean temperatures, and a massive toxic algal bloom. Kristi Miller also got married!
Let the dust settle, let scientists do their stuff and perhaps disregard most of the media crap that is about to come down ;D
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http://www.cheknews.ca/drought-causes-salmon-shortage-for-island-first-nations-121748/
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http://www.cheknews.ca/drought-causes-salmon-shortage-for-island-first-nations-121748/
Glad they are not interested in FF fish.
I remember in the 1940, 50 and before that Cowichan Bay teemed with chinook, chum and coho salmon.
My family always got their winter supply of fish there as well.
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Glad they are not interested in FF fish
They seem to like to farm their own. :)
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Glad they are not interested in FF fish.
I remember in the 1940, 50 and before that Cowichan Bay teemed with chinook, chum and coho salmon.
My family always got their winter supply of fish there as well.
If your family did I suspect others did so as well. I wonder if that, along with the massive loss of riverine and estuarine habitat in the Cowichan River watershed has any bearing on fewer fish now ::)
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If your family did I suspect others did so as well. I wonder if that, along with the massive loss of riverine and estuarine habitat in the Cowichan River watershed has any bearing on fewer fish now ::)
And commercial fishery came into this area as well, also they built a lumber mill there in the estuary, all have there effect. One of the biggest problems that remains to this day is the intake for the pipeline for the Croften Pulp Mill that draws a lot of water out of the Cowichan River, even more serious in these days of dry summers we have. I have been told fry and smolts were at one time sucked into the pipe ending up at the Mill, although I could not prove that.
I spent many enjoyable mornings there mooching with plug cut herring for chinook salmon in the fifties and sixties at the Bay. Those days I worked out of an old leaky row boat, those were, the days. ;D ;D
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/partners/advbcsalmonfarmers0515/fisher-tales/article27185734/?service=mobile
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/critically-low-salmon-returns-prompt-b-c-first-nations-to-call-for-meeting-1.2655582
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Too bad these FN leaders don't follow the science that has been so readily available regarding salmon population declines this past year.
There is so much information regarding this subject these people seem to miss or perhaps just gloss over. I find this sad as I worked with many FN communities and this disconnect just makes them look incompetent in news stories like this one.
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Too bad these FN leaders don't follow the science that has been so readily available regarding salmon population declines this past year.
There is so much information regarding this subject these people seem to miss or perhaps just gloss over. I find this sad as I worked with many FN communities and this disconnect just makes them look incompetent in news stories like this one.
It is also too bad that the media and critics are using the wrong forecast numbers and not providing the proper context to this. For instance, in the CTV article the 50p forecast for Fraser Sockeye was 6.8 Million. The probability range (what should be referred to) was 2.4 Million (10p) to 23.6 Million (90p). For the Adams, the 50p preseason forecast was not 1.2 million. 1.2 Million represents the 50p preseason forecast for the Late Run aggregate which includes the Adams. It is not possible to separate Adams from the other Late South Thompson Sockeye for forecasting. The forecast for Late South Thompson ranged from 168,000 (10p) to 1.8 Million (90p). Forecasts can have a lot of uncertainty and with the record breaking year in 2010 it meant that there was a lot of uncertainty in the 5 year old forecast. Forecast models were being extrapolated beyond observed stock-recruitment ranges. Forecasts need to be looked at as a distribution instead of a single point estimate at 50p.
What is funny is that those critics that criticize these forecasts for being wrong, botched and not to be trusted seem to have no problem using them to show how many fish that are apparently missing at this time of the year. All the sudden all that uncertainty goes out the window and now they can be relied on to show all these missing fish. Those 1.2 Million now represent real fish in their minds, but on the other hand those numbers are never right. Which is it...lol? These critics should know that in 2014 most stocks came in between 25% and 75% p-levels indicating close to average survival. Although this season at the Adams may be very disappointing, critics might also want to know that over the long term Late South Thompson Sockeye have had steady productivity when compared to other Fraser River Sockeye stocks. This is all in the 2015 forecast that guys like Chamberlain and most reporters lately failed to read.
Considering that abnormally warm water has been sitting off our coast since 2013 and has impacted food items (nutritious northern zooplankton being replaced with less nutritious southern species) that Fraser Sockeye feed on I find it strange that not one report so far over the past week has even mentioned it and instead focused all their attention on fish farms. Also, these reports do not even mention the big numbers of Chinook this season. How does any of these reports gloss over that? Do these Chinook just bypass these fish farms? So, if Harrison Sockeye comes in under brood what does that say about Morton's theory about Harrison Sockeye being so much more successful than other Fraser Sockeye stocks because they avoid fish farms? Obviously there is more to this and hopefully research efforts by real scientists (not Morton) will help answer some of these questions. At least we can hear right from these DFO scientists now instead of having an edited, cherry-picked version from everyone's favourite activist.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/ScR-RS/2015/2015_014-eng.pdf
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Thanks Steve. I always enjoy reading your posts. Very informative.
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http://advocate.gaalliance.org/aquaculture-exchange-barry-costa-pierce-une/
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More for the boys to dissect including comments made by Miller.
So refreshing to see them allowed to speak freely now.
Kristi Miller, molecular geneticist in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans
When Kristi Miller testified in 2011 at the Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the decline of Fraser River sockeye salmon, she was accompanied by an earpiece-wearing security guard and a communications specialist. The message was clear: There would be no chatting with reporters.
Four years later, Dr. Miller looks back and describes the moment as a “surreal experience.”
“To be that controlled, it almost made you nervous,” she said. “They were almost trying to make you afraid of the public, and afraid of the media.”
Dr. Miller also recalls having to get several levels of approval if she wanted to participate in workshops where the media might be present. Most of these requests were denied. In the rare instances they were approved, a media handler was assigned to accompany her.
“It felt like being treated like a child, to be perfectly honest,” Dr. Miller said. “I found it quite irritating that I wasn’t trusted to communicate the messages from my own work, that the only person who could effectively communicate the messages from my work was a communications expert.”
A four-year-long study led by Dr. Miller had found that there was a specific genomic signature present in salmon that was predictive of whether they would survive the journey to the spawning grounds.
“That was really the first time that we had demonstrated that freshwater environment alone is not a complete explanation for the massive die-offs that were occurring,” she said. “There was something about the condition of the salmon before they entered the river that was exacerbating [conditions for mortality] in the river.”
That mortality-related signature was consistent with a viral infection – which could have posed a threat to the aquaculture industry.
“That’s really what made the government nervous: not the genomics or the precondition, but the hypothesis that that precondition was a disease,” Dr. Miller said.
Meanwhile, Dr. Miller and her team have developed a platform that can screen for dozens of disease-causing microbes – viruses, bacteria, micro-parasites – at once.
“Basically, the full range of microbes that are associated with diseases in salmon worldwide, we can detect them – and we can detect them incredibly quickly,” Dr. Miller said.
“What’s exciting about this is that we are ahead of the curve, even of the human world. You can’t go into a human diagnostic lab and in 24 hours be tested for 45 different pathogens. This is the first time in my career in genomics that I have been ahead of the curve when it comes to human medicine.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/three-scientists-on-the-research-they-couldnt-discuss-to-media-under-harper/article27244717/
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Nothing to dissect Chris, too bad the Globe and Mail didn't do some research and get her name right though ;D It's Kristi Miller-Saunders.
More mean nothing journalism from a crappy newspaper; nothing was said we don't already know.
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The sad thing is that this control of the message by our previous government was not only disrespectful to those scientists mentioned and many others like them, but it actually created more suspicion and misinformation than what it was "supposed to" prevent. Instead of being proactive and having the proper people talk on a subject in a timely manner, government was reactive and constantly on the defensive for no reason. If the message wasn't going through approved communication channels (i.e. people who didn't know what they were talking about) then a void was created. This void was then filled by individuals who didn't know what they were taking about either. The result was the public was getting the wrong information and not from the individuals who should be talking about it. It created cynicism and distrust with government and ultimately culminated in the results we saw on October 19th. It's been frustrating the past 5 years watching the media interview people talking about research that should really be done by the person who did the work.
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Thousands of British Columbians from all backgrounds have been mobilizing to get fish farms out of the oceans for more than 15 years. This movement is growing and will not stop until this is accomplished because what is at stake is the cost of many jobs in the wild salmon economy, and more unravelling of the ecosystems on the coast and along the river systems. Added to this, health experts warn consumers not to consume farmed Atlantic salmon due to high levels of contamination.
With Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his new cabinet determined to make a sharp break from the oppressive Harper conservative government, we are taking the new Liberal government up on their election campaign promises related to protecting wild salmon and its habitat from fish farms and other threats as a top priority. Letters are being written to the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard asking for a meeting to address the Liberal Party's promise to act on the Cohen Commission recommendations. Alexandra Morton and I sent the Honourable Hunter Tootoo the following letter by email:
Minister’s Office, November 12, 2015
Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard
200 Kent Street, Station 15N100
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A6
Dear Minister Tootoo,
Subject: Cohen Commission Recommendations and Fish FarmsPlease accept our congratulations for your appointment as Minister of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO). The Harper government cast the Cohen Commission report in the dustbin, and abdicated its responsibility to protect wild salmon and their habitat. We are encouraged that the Liberal Party of Canada made a commitment to act on the 2012 Cohen Commission recommendations on restoring sockeye salmon stocks in the Fraser River, and that real change with the Liberal government will include working with the provinces, indigenous peoples and other stakeholders to use our marine resources efficiently. Further, we are pleased that your government is committed to empower coastal communities to manage their resources and ensure co-management of our oceans. The current situation calls for an immediate halt to any expansion of fish farms until the Cohen Commission recommendations have been fully and transparently implemented, with all stakeholders involved. River First Nations have not given their consent to have fish farms on the migration routes of Fraser River wild salmon. Fish farms pose a threat to Aboriginal titleholders’ right to a salmon fishery, an integral part of our spiritual, cultural and physical well-being. First Nations have made it clear that both levels of government and corporations must honor the duty to consult with, and obtain the consent of, First Nation titleholders respecting industrial fish farms. Although the Cohen Commission focused on Fraser sockeye, salmon coastwide are also endangered by ocean fish farms in BC, and must be equally protected. The attached map clearly shows how widespread this is. We fully support the First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance’s call for a moratorium on all salmon aquaculture ventures on the West coast. This is warranted, especially in light of another collapse of sockeye salmon returns this year, and as the provincial government approves an increase of industrial effluent into the Fraser. We are in solidarity with the Ahousaht First Nation people, who more recently negotiated with Cermaq the removal of a new fish farm that was going to be established in their territory. We are signatories to a petition signed by 110,000 British Columbians in May 2015 asking the province not to issue licenses of occupation to the salmon farms bent on expanding in BC, because we believe wild salmon are much too important to allow a dirty industry that refuses to contain its untreated waste, adding to our over-polluted ocean.Your ministry must not allow multi-year licenses to fish farms that the Harper government set up to take effect in December 2015, given so much science is underway on the potential impact of disease transmission to wild salmon, which Justice Cohen called potentially “serious or irreversible.” The precautionary principle needs to be upheld in favour of resurgence of wild salmon. This principle needs to be applied to protect all wild salmon as a priority over the ocean aquaculture industry and needs to be firmly embedded in the Fisheries Act as a means of removing DFO’s current conflict of interest in promoting, encouraging and supporting ocean aquaculture at the expense of the marine environment and wild fisheries. With emerging land-based closed containment aquaculture, we hope you will see an opportunity to support this as the sustainable way for aquaculture and wild salmon fisheries to safely co-exist.We support the First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance’s call for an urgent meeting to discuss the plunging salmon returns in British Columbia’s rivers as a meaningful step in “a smarter co-management of our ocean,” which Prime Minister Justin Trudeau included in the Liberal Party election platform. We thank you for your attention to this urgent matter and we look forward to your prompt response.
Eddie Gardner Alexandra Morton
Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance Salmon Are Sacred
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/12/activist-alexandra-morton-lies-on-national-tv/
The remarks at the bottom of the link are a good read also. :)
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I thought this was a timely tid-bit considering the recent noise being generated by Morton.
The decline of the Fraser sockeye began when salmon farms were put on their migration route. Only the sockeye that pass close by salmon farms declined. It was discovered that the extremely large numbers of Fraser sockeye dying were fighting a virus. When a DFO scientist found strong evidence that the Fraser sockeye were dying of a virus similar to a disease outbreak in salmon farms, DFO terminated the research and muzzled her. When the salmon farms known to carry Salmon Leukemia were removed, traces of the virus vanished in the Fraser sockeye and a large number of Fraser sockeye returned. Today, we are seeing lower number of salmon farms and larger runs of sockeye. – Alexandra Morton (http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/fraser_sockeye_vs_farmed_/)
Compare this with an interview of Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders where she talks about the study (Genomic Signatures Predict Migration and Spawning Failure in Wild Canadian Salmon published in the prestigious journal “Science” in January 2011) and repeatedly states that a virus has not been discovered:
Question: Did it show there is a virus in farmed salmon?
Miller: No. First of all, the involvement of a virus in eliciting the mortality-related signature (MRS) was only a hypothesis, as no specific disease agent was identified in this study. Second, this study was based solely on wild sockeye salmon returning to spawn in the Fraser River, not farmed salmon. Importantly, the MRS was observed in fish tagged both in Johnstone Strait and in Juan de Fuca Strait, and unpublished data shows the signature is also present in salmon migrating through the Haida Gwaii, before they would have encountered salmon farms.
Question: Can farmed salmon be tested for this virus?
Miller: Farmed salmon could be tested to see if they carry the genomic signature, but again, the study did not identify a specific virus (disease agent). Research aiming to identify whether a viral pathogen is involved in eliciting this signature is underway. If a specific virus is identified using the molecular sequencing approaches being applied, it could be tested on farmed salmon.
Question: Where could the virus have come from?
Miller: Again, at the present time, there is not a specific virus identified, so we simply can’t answer this question. However, if a specific virus is identified, molecular epidemiological approaches could be applied to answer these questions.
http://www.cahs-bc.ca/sites/default/files/Miller_GenomicSignatures_Jan2011-V2.pdf
This is why I am happy that the new Federal government will now allow those that did the work to actually speak about it to the media instead of having unqualified individuals who know nothing about Pacific salmon providing the wrong information. According to Morton’s new theory just last year, she suggests that we have more Fraser Sockeye returning now because there are lower number salmon farms. Ok…..so if the number of salmon farms is lower then the 2014 and 2015 returns should meet or exceed brood according to her theory? So far, that theory appears to be failing bad. However, there is actually no correlation at all if one looks at the number of active sites and the data Morton chose to omit (i.e. 2008). Lastly, Chinook farms also continue to operate in the Discovery Islands area. It is funny how she no longer talks about this theory from last year. Seeing as though the new mandate letter for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans calls for decisions to be based on science, facts, and evidence it could be a long, frustrating 4 years for Morton and Gardner.
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2014_Correction-Fraser-Sockeye-vs.-Farmed-Salmon.pdf
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Seeing as though the new mandate letter for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans calls for decisions to be based on science, facts, and evidence it could be a long, frustrating 4 years for Morton and Gardner.
There you go again Steve, spouting facts. You gotta know that won't sway the people who just can't get their heads around the fact their goddess is nothing but a shamanistic phony. Oh well, during their down time Eddy may learn a few new drum beats ;D
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There you go again Steve, spouting facts. You gotta know that won't sway the people who just can't get their heads around the fact their goddess is nothing but a shamanistic phony. Oh well, during their down time Eddy may learn a few new drum beats ;D
Shamanism (/ˈʃɑːmən/ SHAH-mən or /ˈʃeɪmən/ SHAY-mən) is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to perceive and interact with a spirit world and channel these transcendental energies into this world.
Fits some others I know too. ;D ;D ;D
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I think you might be in an altered state right about now ;) Your team was better than mine tonight ... gaaawd I hate to say that ;D
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I think you might be in an altered state right about now ;) Your team was better than mine tonight ... gaaawd I hate to say that ;D
Two things I need to do is make you a Leaf fan and get you on board with us about the FF's. Gosh I wish I could find that picture I took of you with Alex from a few years ago. ;D ;D ;D
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I deleted it from your camera ;D
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I deleted it from your camera ;D
;D ;D
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2015/11/16/norwegian-district-nearly-emptied-of-farmed-fish-over-sealice-crisis/
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I could see the new Federal government banning fish farms in BC completely.
Why take risks with an existing salmon population when there are other places in the world where farmed fish could be raised without any risks.
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/technology/pacific-salmon-not-affected-by-lice-study-1.897519
Studies have been going on for years.
I wonder if Alaska does sea lice studies on their yearly 1.5 billion salmon they dump in the Pacific that our wild salmon have to compete with.
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I could see the new Federal government banning fish farms in BC completely.
Why take risks with an existing salmon population when there are other places in the world where farmed fish could be raised without any risks.
Good to see others mentioning this. ;D
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http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2164-15-200.pdf
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I could see the new Federal government banning fish farms in BC completely.
Right ::) Don't hold your breath ... too many jobs involved and zero science to ban them.
But I think your post was sarcastic, no? ;)
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http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2164-15-200.pdf
Great post Bob! I especially liked this ...
"The present work shows that when co-habited and subjected
to identical copepodid exposures, chum salmon
become infected with higher densities (lice per host
weight (g)) of salmon lice Lepeophtheirus salmonis than
do Atlantic or pink salmon. The higher infection density
on chum compared to pink salmon was previously identified
[22] and the inclusion of Atlantic salmon here provides
more information on the susceptibility spectrum of
Pacific and Atlantic salmon. We conclude that juvenile
pink salmon are resistant whereas juvenile Atlantic and
particularly chum salmon are susceptible."
Kinda downplays Almo's theory of pink salmon extirpation from sea lice and shows there are many more factors involved in salmonid population fluctuations, salmon farming being at the bottom of that list.
So, will Almo now start blaming low chum numbers (are they low?) on sea lice? Stay tuned, she has a few years left to stir the pot and request your money ;)
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Dave, bottom of the list? Mmany will dispute you on that. Beak you are. ;D ;D ;D
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Some reading for the boys on a wet windy night.
http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2015/11/international-salmon-farming-news-fraud-cheating-fines-prison.html
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Dave, bottom of the list? Mmany will dispute you on that. Beak you are. ;D ;D ;D
Well, you, Almo, Eddy, perhaps troutbreath. So let's find out... Who else here on this site thinks salmon farming is a major factor in declining salmonid populations and if so, why?
Remember all the other issues ... habitat degradation, urban encroachment, climate change, over fishing by all user groups, pollution, warming and acidification of the Pacific, salmon ranching blah, blah ;D
Thanks for telling us what's happening in Norway Chris. Means jack squat to salmon farming in BC though.
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There are many factors affecting our wild salmon stocks ,responsible farming practices is one factor we could control!
And really what are the benefits to BC of this mostly exported product.
Good insight into the Norway situation,kind of serves as a model of what could happen here if we let irresponsible farming practices run amuck unchecked !
Glad to see we have people bringing these issues up .
Great Info !
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11507017
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Why exporting is important? I am sure there is an economist on here that can explain it better.
http://www.international.gc.ca/media/comm/news-communiques/2013/12/23b.aspx?lang=eng
http://www.aquaculture.ca/files/economic-benefits.php
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http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html
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http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html
"Costco drastically cuts farmed salmon purchases from Chile
Previously purchasing about 90 percent of its salmon from Chile, the membership-only warehouse says it will now buy just 40 percent from the South American exporter as they look to Norway (the world's largest salmon producer) to supply the majority of their demand."
Did they miss your last post Chris? :). Sounds more like a simple buisness move. Shelves remain full.
http://news.yahoo.com/addicted-antibiotics-chiles-salmon-flops-costco-grocers-130612992--finance.html
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http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html
Sounds like less business for Chile and potentially more business for British Columbia. Story didn't say that no farmed fish were going to be sold at Costco.
When farmed fish escape into wild, it's a major cause for concern as they pose an enormous threat to wild fish due to the diseases they carry.
In BC, farmed Atlantic Salmon have more to worry about endemic diseases, like IHN, than wild Pacific Salmon as Atlantic Salmon have not developed the immunity their Pacific cousins have. Adult Pacific Salmon like Sockeye can be natural carriers of IHNv and likely pass this onto farmed Atlantic Salmon.
It's also feared that farmed fish, which have minimal genetic diversity due to inbreeding, may mate with wild fish and over time cause them to lose "natural traits that help them survive in the wild."
Farmed Atlantic Salmon with wild Atlantic Salmon - yes that could potentially happen. However, Atlantic Salmon cannot breed with Pacific Salmon.
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While these diseases have wiped out farmed salmon populations in Chile, they have been the farmed populations ,regardless,we are talking about preserving our own wild stocks from being affected.Farming will be around and to me I am indifferent if the huge multinational fish farmers survive or not .
We need to focus on preserving our own wild stocks which are being affected.And maybe not by the same virus as the farmed fish but by the concentrations of pollution and the sea lice epidemic we now see.
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Sea lice?
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=269
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We need to focus on preserving our own wild stocks which are being affected.And maybe not by the same virus as the farmed fish but by the concentrations of pollution and the sea lice epidemic we now see.
What stocks are being affected? What concentrations of pollution and what sea lice epidemic?
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http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html
Great post Chris. Great post indeed. But you can see the pro dirty fish types couldn't give a rat's unmentionable if they pump those fish with anything. even if it affects the environment around the farm areas. Wrong on so many levels you have to rinse your eyes with sterile saline after reading their posts. They want Canada to operate at the same low standards as Chile to appease their whatever affinity to the dirty fish method. I can't for the life of me imagine what motivates their support for this.
"Chile used nearly 350 times more antibiotics on its farmed salmon than Norway, its chief competitor."
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html#ixzz3rxDVDM4s
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They want Canada to operate at the same low standards as Chile to appease their whatever affinity to the dirty fish method. I can't for the life of me imagine what motivates their support for this.
"Chile used nearly 350 times more antibiotics on its farmed salmon than Norway, its chief competitor."
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/052017_fish_farming_industry_Costco_antibiotic_overuse.html#ixzz3rxDVDM4s
Who here has said we want Canada to operate like Chile? And what has Chilean salmon farming to do with BC and Washington state salmon farming?
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Dave you would give the dirty fish farmers free reign to do whatever they want should the same issues arise here. More antibiotics bingo use the shovel. More SLICE bango hold the fishes mouth open and shovel it down their throats. You only criticize people who complain about the poor outdated fishfarming technique. I hope this helps. Maybe a holiday in Chile at this time of year is just the ticket for you to see firsthand and enjoy their summer.
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I hope this helps. Maybe a holiday in Chile at this time of year is just the ticket for you to see firsthand and enjoy their summer.
Great advice tb ;) Actually I would love to go to Chile for the superb trout fishing and perhaps even better wines. Maybe I should do like Almo and start a Go Fund me campaign ;D ;D ;D
Would you contribute?
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They want Canada to operate at the same low standards as Chile to appease their whatever affinity to the dirty fish method.
"Chile used nearly 350 times more antibiotics on its farmed salmon than Norway, its chief competitor."
I see you have picked up on Doc Mortons habits and started lying. Good on you for promoting salmon from Norway though. :)
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What stocks are being affected? What concentrations of pollution and what sea lice epidemic?
There are many factors affecting our wild salmon stocks ,responsible farming practices is one factor we could control .
The pollution under neath the overcrowded net pens.
http://asf.ca/sea-lice-detrimental-to-wild-atlantic-salmon.html
In Norway they are spending 40 Million dollars to control sea lice on the farmed fish, why would they do this ?
Because they are detrimental to the health and harvest.
Why does it matter here?
Because they are ahead of the curve compared to us, we should learn from them .
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You only criticize people who complain about the poor outdated fishfarming technique.
No, he criticizes those that don't know what they are talking about which in this case is you.
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There are many factors affecting our wild salmon stocks ,responsible farming practices is one factor we could control .
The pollution under neath the overcrowded net pens.
http://asf.ca/sea-lice-detrimental-to-wild-atlantic-salmon.html
In Norway they are spending 40 Million dollars to control sea lice on the farmed fish, why would they do this ?
Because they are detrimental to the health and harvest.
Why does it matter here?
Because they are ahead of the curve compared to us, we should learn from them .
If they are so far ahead of the curve then why are they apparently experiencing more issues with sea lice than they are here? What do you understand about aquaculture other than what you get from Morton or the website you attached earlier? What do you understand about the management of sea lice on BC fish farms? Do you know how and when SLICE is administered? Do you know what is involved in monitoring sea lice levels and how surveys are designed? Would it not be a good idea to be up to speed on this stuff first before announcing sea lice epidemics and impending catastrophe?
Have you seen this website already? That would be a start.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/lice-pou-eng.html
You keep saying about "preserving our own wild stocks which are being affected", but what are all the factors that potentially impact wild salmon, what have we learned so far about each and what is there left to find out? There was a 26 million report put out in 2012 called the Cohen Report which addressed all these issues, looked at the evidence to date, made findings and came up with recommendations. Read what Cohen says about the sea lice and it's impact on Fraser Sockeye declines. Seriously, Google the document from Watershed Watch Salmon Society and read what they say about sea lice as well as other factors. It seems many here agree with Cohen's recommendations and are demanding that they be implemented, but I highly suspect few here have actually taken the time to read it other than to read filtered and edited versions (i.e. Salmonconfidential) from notable activists. If people are so passionate about saving wild salmon then they should at least take the time to read the report, especially Volume 2: Decline Related Evidence and Findings.
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More bad news for FF.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/parasite-ridden-salmon-sold-in-b-c-stores-1.864202
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More bad news for FF.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/parasite-ridden-salmon-sold-in-b-c-stores-1.864202
Did you read when this story came out? Didn't think so ;D Also, if you were up to speed on this issue you would know in 2012 all Atlantic salmon sold at Costco were imported from Chile, and, that Kudoa has been present in wild salmon long before salmon farms started up in BC.
It is actually very common in Early Stuart sockeye.
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Great advice tb ;) Actually I would love to go to Chile for the superb trout fishing and perhaps even better wines. Maybe I should do like Almo and start a Go Fund me campaign ;D ;D ;D
Would you contribute?
i'd chip in if you bring me back a bottle of malbec.
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Did you read when this story came out? Didn't think so ;D Also, if you were up to speed on this issue you would know in 2012 all Atlantic salmon sold at Costco were imported from Chile, and, that Kudoa has been present in wild salmon long before salmon farms started up in BC.
It is actually very common in Early Stuart sockeye.
Keeping the thread alive. ;D ;D ;D
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More bad news for FF.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/parasite-ridden-salmon-sold-in-b-c-stores-1.864202
Why is it bad news? It's Costco. You can return anything there and get your money back. :P
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"Kudoa can also survive long after the salmon is killed, and the parasite’s longevity is making it a widespread problem in B.C. Marine Harvest alone spent $12 million last year to clear out infected fish and provide refunds for tainted products, and there are estimates that Kudoa affects 20 to 50 per cent of all salmon farmed in the province.
The industry is currently studying the microscopic menace to protect farmed salmon, but experts say the greater risk is the impact the parasite could have on fish in the wild."
Scientist extraordinaire Steve see's no problem hears no problem taste's no problem. Read his recipe book for more tasty tidbits.
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"Kudoa can also survive long after the salmon is killed, and the parasite’s longevity is making it a widespread problem in B.C. Marine Harvest alone spent $12 million last year to clear out infected fish and provide refunds for tainted products, and there are estimates that Kudoa affects 20 to 50 per cent of all salmon farmed in the province.
The industry is currently studying the microscopic menace to protect farmed salmon, but experts say the greater risk is the impact the parasite could have on fish in the wild."
Scientist extraordinaire Steve see's no problem hears no problem taste's no problem. Read his recipe book for more tasty tidbits.
Who are the experts they are talking about TB? Seems to me that "Kudos" comes from the wild and can transfer to the farm. So yes, more study needs to be done to see the affect on the wild. We seem to learn more about the wild salmon by farming than from Doc Morton who has done nothing to save them. :)
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If they are so far ahead of the curve then why are they apparently experiencing more issues with sea lice than they are here? What do you understand about aquaculture other than what you get from Morton or the website you attached earlier? What do you understand about the management of sea lice on BC fish farms? Do you know how and when SLICE is administered? Do you know what is involved in monitoring sea lice levels and how surveys are designed? Would it not be a good idea to be up to speed on this stuff first before announcing sea lice epidemics and impending catastrophe?
Have you seen this website already? That would be a start.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/lice-pou-eng.html
You keep saying about "preserving our own wild stocks which are being affected", but what are all the factors that potentially impact wild salmon, what have we learned so far about each and what is there left to find out? There was a 26 million report put out in 2012 called the Cohen Report which addressed all these issues, looked at the evidence to date, made findings and came up with recommendations. Read what Cohen says about the sea lice and it's impact on Fraser Sockeye declines. Seriously, Google the document from Watershed Watch Salmon Society and read what they say about sea lice as well as other factors. It seems many here agree with Cohen's recommendations and are demanding that they be implemented, but I highly suspect few here have actually taken the time to read it other than to read filtered and edited versions (i.e. Salmonconfidential) from notable activists. If people are so passionate about saving wild salmon then they should at least take the time to read the report, especially Volume 2: Decline Related Evidence and Findings.
The European industry is so much more expanded than ours .
I'm not the person who keeps mentioning where my info comes from , its you. Its great that people keep this issue current ,relevant and in the news because if not the industry would prefer to sweep everything the ,err, pen .
Sea lice are a problem ,we don't how these levels affect juvenile salmon ,that's the problem here,we do know they affected pink salmon in the early 2000's.
We shouldn't be sticking our collective heads in the sand on this ,just monitoring it closely .
Have come across these DFO reports before,fairly statistical and most of the recommendations are mentioned.However it looks like the fish farms try to minimize the sea lice levels by either harvesting ,sea water entry or Slice. Minimizing , of course is a good thing
A quote
" Threshold reached and harvesting initiated end of February and completed in May. On day of the audit the difference between DFO count and farm count was statistically significant. The licence-holder is taking steps to determine and correct the problem. Harvesting*"
Hopefully DFO will do more and that includes not minimizing their reporting and personnel . Hopefully the new govt will be more transparent
Have read the Cohen report , have a copy saved on my laptop ,thanks .Of course people are demanding recommendations be implemented and they should be .You seem to think that no one else understands all the issues here. I do and that's why I am speaking out which in this country is a given right .
As for the activists, they have a valuable place keeping the issue current and relevant ,but prefer to have my own sources thanks.
I do have faith that people will do the right thing ,re preserving wild stocks and will continue to be outspoken of this .
I don't understand with all the issues FF have how anyone could blindly support them .
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More bad news for FF.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/parasite-ridden-salmon-sold-in-b-c-stores-1.864202
Some Co workers had this on their BBQ when the parasites came out ,pretty unappetizing .
Spoke to a Costco buyer once ,they have pretty high standards for purchasing ,hopefully with the proper response it wouldn't affect their reputation for good quality products .
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Some Co workers had this on their BBQ when the parasites came out ,pretty unappetizing .
It wasn't kudoa parasites that came out of the flesh sr, most likely some species of nematode. Kudoa causes areas of soft flesh and is only noticed after the death of the fish. Although most certainly un appetizing it is harmless to humans. FN fishers at Fort St. James often found this parasite in sockeye that been left too long in gill nets in Stuart Lake. I know this because I took the samples and had them flown to the PBS for expert analysis.
Here is a bit more info on what BC is doing about this problem.
http://www.cahs-bc.ca/kudoa-mitigation-initiative-project
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It wasn't kudoa parasites that came out of the flesh sr, most likely some species of nematode. Kudoa causes areas of soft flesh and is only noticed after the death of the fish. Although most certainly un appetizing it is harmless to humans. FN fishers at Fort St. James often found this parasite in sockeye that been left too long in gill nets in Stuart Lake. I know this because I took the samples and had them flown to the PBS for expert analysis.
Here is a bit more info on what BC is doing about this problem.
http://www.cahs-bc.ca/kudoa-mitigation-initiative-project
Thank you Dave. You and Steve put up great links that put doom and gloom prophecies to rest, but still under the eyes of the "real" experts. :)
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Some Co workers had this on their BBQ when the parasites came out ,pretty unappetizing .
Spoke to a Costco buyer once ,they have pretty high standards for purchasing ,hopefully with the proper response it wouldn't affect their reputation for good quality products .
I have been told that fishy smelling and pale looking fish on the store counter has simply been on the shelf too long, or on the shelf at home too long. That is not the grower or the fishermans fault. It would be the stores or the buyers fault. IMO. That my friends is why we are told not to squeeze the charmin. The store prefers that you test it at home after you buy it lol. :)
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Thank you Dave. You and Steve put up great links that put doom and gloom prophecies to rest, but still under the eyes of the "real" experts. :)
Your welcome ;)
I should have added more information perhaps … this soft flesh issue was a biggie for the Tl’azt’en First Nation back in the early 90’s. The women (men never fished) would set their nets out during the day, in Stuart Lake, often in water temperatures in the high teens, low twenties. They would check the nets the next day, or sometimes not till the day after… this of course was optimum conditions for all sorts of tissue breakdowns, including obvious signs of kudoa, fungus, bacterial infections, etc.
These FN fishers were angry and blaming DFO for “mismanagement” but I and the Aboriginal Fisheries Strategy officer of the day, Barry Huber, along with the expert disease advice from the Pacific Biological Station, were able to convince these fishers that if they harvested their fish sooner and more often, the disease problems would disappear. They did listen, checked their nets more often and a possible negative DFO newspaper story was averted.
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"Kudoa can also survive long after the salmon is killed, and the parasite’s longevity is making it a widespread problem in B.C. Marine Harvest alone spent $12 million last year to clear out infected fish and provide refunds for tainted products, and there are estimates that Kudoa affects 20 to 50 per cent of all salmon farmed in the province.
The industry is currently studying the microscopic menace to protect farmed salmon, but experts say the greater risk is the impact the parasite could have on fish in the wild."
Scientist extraordinaire Steve see's no problem hears no problem taste's no problem. Read his recipe book for more tasty tidbits.
No need for being a scientist extraordinaire - just need to be willing to look past your nose. Up to the challenge?
Not sure why we are beating this dead horse again, but Kudoa is already widespread through many wild fish species. Capture fisheries have been dealing with this for years already. Kudoa is found in fish sold already in stores in the processed form, but critics don't really talk about it; instead, falsely labelling it as a fish farm problem which threatens wild fish. Need to add the proper context to this and not ignore the larger picture, but scaring the public with misinformation and half truths seems to be the route of many fish farm critics these days.
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The European industry is so much more expanded than ours.
But not as regulated as in BC.
I'm not the person who keeps mentioning where my info comes from , its you. Its great that people keep this issue current ,relevant and in the news because if not the industry would prefer to sweep everything the ,err, pen .
Sea lice are a problem ,we don't how these levels affect juvenile salmon ,that's the problem here,we do know they affected pink salmon in the early 2000's.
We shouldn't be sticking our collective heads in the sand on this ,just monitoring it closely.
Well, where are you getting your information from? Pretty direct question for you. Not sure how fish farm critics are providing such a valuable service when their information is without proper context, sometimes exaggerated, mostly inaccurate, only half true at times and often not relevant, but to each their own. You seem to contradict yourself when you say that sea lice is a problem, but then in the next sentence that we don't know how these levels affect juvenile salmon....then back again saying that we know they affect Pink salmon in the early 2000s. Which is it? Well, actually we do know some, but industry critics do not say the whole story and ignore relevant investigations like Cohen that looked into the impact of sea lice on Fraser Sockeye declines. If you had read your copy of the Cohen Report you would have noticed that we could use more information, but it likely is not the sole or primary factor in wild salmon declines.
Have come across these DFO reports before,fairly statistical and most of the recommendations are mentioned.However it looks like the fish farms try to minimize the sea lice levels by either harvesting ,sea water entry or Slice. Minimizing , of course is a good thing
A quote
" Threshold reached and harvesting initiated end of February and completed in May. On day of the audit the difference between DFO count and farm count was statistically significant. The licence-holder is taking steps to determine and correct the problem. Harvesting*"
Hopefully DFO will do more and that includes not minimizing their reporting and personnel . Hopefully the new govt will be more transparent
Again, maybe you need to understand what is done, how it is done and why it is done instead of speculating.
Have read the Cohen report , have a copy saved on my laptop ,thanks .Of course people are demanding recommendations be implemented and they should be .You seem to think that no one else understands all the issues here. I do and that's why I am speaking out which in this country is a given right.
You are fully entitled to your opinion just as I am.
As for the activists, they have a valuable place keeping the issue current and relevant ,but prefer to have my own sources thanks.
I do have faith that people will do the right thing ,re preserving wild stocks and will continue to be outspoken of this .
I don't understand with all the issues FF have how anyone could blindly support them.
Funny, I don't understand how anyone could have blind support for anti-fish farm activists.
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Not sure why we are beating this dead horse again,
So you would read it for a change, instead of being preoccupied about another long winded but personally affected response Dr Extraordinaire.
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So you would read it for a change, instead of being preoccupied about another long winded but personally affected response Dr Extraordinaire.
No, I just read it because it's funny to see some grasping for whatever manufactured controversy or conspiracy they can find.
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http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com//fp-comment/junk-science-week-this-science-is-fishy
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Video I filmed at yesterday's rally, we are making a difference. ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/OeKXxy-JFJg
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Chris, you should realize by now you are just a pimp for Gardener’s agenda and his war on salmon farms in BC. How about inviting him to this forum where a few of us can debate him directly as to why he boycotts a store that sells imported Chilean and Norwegian salmon, which have nothing at all to do with the BC salmon farms he dislikes … Perhaps he could explain his fence sitting on the recent gravel extraction on the Fraser River by his fellow FN bands, a project you personally were very negatively vocal about. He might also have a few comments on the yearly overfishing of early run chinooks in the Fraser Canyon by his FN brothers.
Rather than me and a few others taking out our disgust on you for his antics, he could man up and answer for himself.
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Chris, you should realize by now you are just a pimp for Gardener’s agenda and his war on salmon farms in BC. How about inviting him to this forum where a few of us can debate him directly as to why he boycotts a store that sells imported Chilean and Norwegian salmon, which have nothing at all to do with the BC salmon farms he dislikes … Perhaps he could explain his fence sitting on the recent gravel extraction on the Fraser River by his fellow FN bands, a project you personally were very negatively vocal about. He might also have a few comments on the yearly overfishing of early run chinooks in the Fraser Canyon by his FN brothers.
Rather than me and a few others taking out our disgust on you for his antics, he could man up and answer for himself.
Dedicated to Dave from yesterday great rally ;D ;D ;D https://youtu.be/T5EpSP6uTcs
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Well from what I saw you didn't get much of a response from the shoppers ::)
So, will you ask Eddy to come on this forum to discuss his agenda? Promise to be respectful ;)
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What are Eddies credentials that make him an expert on this subject Chris? Did you misplace your fanfair some where for your vid? Feeble at best. Nothing new to learn there at all :(
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Well from what I saw you didn't get much of a response from the shoppers ::)
So, will you ask Eddy to come on this forum to discuss his agenda? Promise to be respectful ;)
To busy for that as we all know the PAPG has answers for everything as I have found out over the years. ;D ;D ;D
I can handle keeping you boys in line. :D :D :D
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The only answer you have put forth is the inability to answer a question. Seems you are far to busy these days posting junk-scientific evidence that farmed salmon in BC have been detrimental to wild salmon to educate the public. Drums and hearsay do not work for me these days or others which shows in the lack of an audience in your video. Time to get out of the dark ages Chris. What good is a teacher that will not answer a students question? I feel your link is just another American funded propaganda watch at best.
I can handle keeping a watchful eye on you lol :)
Can you post a link to PAPG Chris. This just seems to pop up when I look for it.
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PAPG
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Did a Google search on Mr. Gardner ... one would think with these credentials he wouldn't shy away from a respectful debate on salmon farming in BC here on FWR
http://www.theprogress.com/community/269998211.html
https://www.ufv.ca/arc/elders-in-residence/elder-eddie-gardner-/
Come out from behind the drums Eddy and let's talk.
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Did a Google search on Mr. Gardner ... one would think with these credentials he wouldn't shy away from a respectful debate on salmon farming in BC here on FWR
http://www.theprogress.com/community/269998211.html
https://www.ufv.ca/arc/elders-in-residence/elder-eddie-gardner-/
Come out from behind the drums Eddy and let's talk.
He has done lots of talking in the vid's and if you would use FB (Salmon are Sacred) you would find more answers to your questions but I understand you and a few others are so entreched in your views nothing anyone could say would change your points of view.
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He has done lots of talking in the vid's and if you would use FB (Salmon are Sacred) you would find more answers to your questions but I understand you and a few others are so entreched in your views nothing anyone could say would change your points of view.
That would include the pasersby in your video Chris LOL. People are getting tired of non answers and a general lack of science from the anti-fishfarm crusaders. :)
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That would include the pasersby in your video Chris LOL. People are getting tired of non answers and a general lack of science from the anti-fishfarm crusaders. :)
We will see what the new goverment will do in the months ahead, we will not give up and keep your posts and links coming.
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Who is entrenched? :o You're totally predictable and obviously have nothing new to add. Bring on Eddy.
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Agree on what the new government will do , its about time that we get a younger generation(no offence to any) in on this and the new libs are just the ticket.
It's mentioned 'getting out of the dark ages ' in a previous post. That's funny because there was nothing darker than the muzzling of science and the old boys network of business from the previous conservative govt.
And talking about junk science, while some science would be good, not NO science like it has been, which several people would like.
'Move along folks, nothing to see here "
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I feel it is the self inflicted blindness to science and the gullible influence of bunk science that is the problem here. The entrenched inability to answer a question proves that. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/how-dishonest-fictional-%E2%80%9Cdocumentary%E2%80%9D-salmon-confidential
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Depending on your side the "self inflicted blindness to science " from one side is actually the info from 'farmfreshsalmon.org' which from the critics side could be seen as 'bunk science' or out of context ,slanted to make the farms look good .
There is clearly lots of evidence from other countries and regions about the effects of salmon farming on the environment .I feel that the self inflicted blindness comes from the industry side because they know it will effect the bottom line .
Its funny that they concentrate on 1 critic and ignore all the other worldwide studies and good science available.
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Depending on your side the "self inflicted blindness to science " from one side is actually the info from 'farmfreshsalmon.org' which from the critics side could be seen as 'bunk science' or out of context ,slanted to make the farms look good .
There is clearly lots of evidence from other countries and regions about the effects of salmon farming on the environment .I feel that the self inflicted blindness comes from the industry side because they know it will effect the bottom line .
Its funny that they concentrate on 1 critic and ignore all the other worldwide studies and good science available.
What specifically is the "bunk", "out of context", "slanted" science that is being used by website?
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Moving ahead. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farming-first-nations-partners
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What specifically is the "bunk", "out of context", "slanted" science that is being used by website?
Where to start...
The website does have some useful information but it shouldn't be the only source of ones info because half the info is taken out of context for a specific time, specifically sea lice.This problem is better managed now and they only use pesticide at certain times of the year.This was only a reaction to harm that was caused to the wild juvenile salmon runs passing the farms at the time.
.And the info that's mentioned about the large amt of effluent being good for the environment ?please...... people see through that bs and no effluent is effluent .Purely bunk spin .
They try to compare Alaska salmon ranching to farming ,which clearly are different ways to produce fish, throughout the life of the fish .Its true that the ranched fish start out in pens, but for a very short time ,the fish spend majority of the life in the ocean ,a more natural way to grow.If you look at the hatchery system in bc its fairly similar,trout and salmon which are raised to size then released .This enables the fish to forage naturally ,vs farming where they have to use 1.5 kgs of feed for 1 kg of fish .
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http://www.adn.com/article/20151119/fda-approves-genetically-modified-salmon-human-consumption
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2011/02/introduction.html
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Well well bawb posting links to your fellow fishfarm worker is less than informative. But that's not your point is it. More propaganda for the dirty fish.
http://www.desmog.ca/vivian-krause
"In 2002 Krause was hired to work for Nutreco Aquaculture, the world's largest producer of farmed salmon, as a Corporate Development Manager for North America. Much of her work involved responding to environmental concerns related to the farmed fish industry and to combat the “Farmed and Dangerous Campaign” run by the David Suzuki Foundation. She later wrote on her blog, “a lot of my job was PR.”
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/ten-reasons-why-some-sea-lice-research-claims-are-false.html
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http://www.adn.com/article/20151119/fda-approves-genetically-modified-salmon-human-consumption
Imo gmo salmon and eventually other fish are the future of aquaculture worldwide and salmon farming here in BC and Washington. I predict now that gmo salmon are allowed to be marketed in the US, Alaska will soon get on board and start their own “modified” farming program, relying less on their destructive to wild salmon ranching. This new ( to animal husbandry, old hat to agriculture) science seems to fit all the anti’s goals and objectives … sterile females, closed containment on land, less food needed to obtain an economically viable product, jobs, and perhaps the biggest bonus, hopefully less commercial fishing on dwindling wild stocks.
Sounds good to me.
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Where to start...
The website does have some useful information but it shouldn't be the only source of ones info because half the info is taken out of context for a specific time, specifically sea lice.This problem is better managed now and they only use pesticide at certain times of the year.This was only a reaction to harm that was caused to the wild juvenile salmon runs passing the farms at the time.
.And the info that's mentioned about the large amt of effluent being good for the environment ?please...... people see through that bs and no effluent is effluent .Purely bunk spin .
They try to compare Alaska salmon ranching to farming ,which clearly are different ways to produce fish, throughout the life of the fish .Its true that the ranched fish start out in pens, but for a very short time ,the fish spend majority of the life in the ocean ,a more natural way to grow.If you look at the hatchery system in bc its fairly similar,trout and salmon which are raised to size then released .This enables the fish to forage naturally ,vs farming where they have to use 1.5 kgs of feed for 1 kg of fish .
What specific science are you referring to is what I asked. You talked about bunk, out of context, slanted science. Ok, what science are you referring to? If it is easier pick out a blog post from that website. Where is this information about large amounts of effluent? Maybe start there.
Sea lice management likely has improved not unlike most aquaculture husbandry in BC. I do not think agriculture on land went off without a hitch either. I have no doubt when the industry first started out here it was not easy going especially when trying to cultivate Pacific Salmon species. Now the BC industry here is likely more regulated than other places in the world. What happened following that 2002 return was the creation of the Broughton Archipelago Monitoring Plan (BAMP) – involving salmon farms, conservationists, government and university academia. It is more than just using SLICE. Again, what do you actually know about sea lice management and monitoring before making the comments you are making now.
http://bamp.ca/pages/home.php
As for the “harm” that was caused to the wild juvenile salmon runs passing the farms at the time that sort of implies that the farms were the sole cause of low survival of the 2000 Pink Salmon brood year in that area. Talk about half the information taken out of context because if you had read the report commissioned by the Suzuki Foundation they didn’t necessarily point the finger solely at salmon farms in the area. Not to mention the diagnostic work that was not even attempted on the Pink Salmon juveniles to rule out and bacterial or viral infection.
On a similar note, Dr. Brian Riddell (former Head of Science at DFO out here, now leads the Pacific Salmon Foundation) suggested that Krkosek et al 2007 in their study that predicted 99% collapse of Pink Salmon in the Broughton area erroneously used 2000 (record high escapement) as their starting point and a record low in 2002. Using such a short time series with such extremes it was inevitable that mathematical models were going to show negative productivity, he suggests. Personally, what he says makes sense because making bold predictions of Pink Salmon escapements using mathematical models over such a short time series has some degree of uncertainty.
Why not compare salmon ranching to salmon farming? One important thing that needs to be mentioned is that ranched salmon are not wild. That is just a marketing thing because ranched salmon are artificially propagated with broodstock collected and selected by humans. The only difference really is that ranched salmon are grown to a sufficient size in ocean net pens where they are large enough to be released to the open ocean to feed on their own (i.e. a more natural way?). Well, it may seem natural, but there is nothing natural about salmon ranching. You make it appear that because these ranched salmon spend the majority of their life in the ocean that their impacts are benign. However, there is growing research now that the billions of ranched salmon (mostly Pink, but also Sockeye) being released by US (Alaska), Russia, Japan and South Korea are having an impact on wild salmon through competition. How are wild Chinook salmon stocks doing in Alaska? Not great. If you had read the Cohen Final report you would have read testimony from Dr. Randall Peterman where he suggests that increasing competition from Pink Salmon could be real concern for wild salmon, in this case Fraser Sockeye. Not mentioned by fish farm critics like Morton, but others like Watershed Watch Salmon Society see this as a growing issue. Generally, Pink Salmon abundance in the North Pacific have increased significantly over the last decade.
Federal hatcheries do not release juveniles directly into the ocean and do not release billions annually into the ocean like the countries I mention above. As for food conversion ratio, it is 1.2:1 and is better than any agricultural animal on land. These ranched salmon are foraging naturally? Sure they are when they are in the ocean, but they are eating off the same plate as wild salmon stocks. Many researchers are concerned about this, it is something not mentioned by many fish farm critics.
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Imo gmo salmon and eventually other fish are the future of aquaculture worldwide and salmon farming here in BC and Washington. I predict now that gmo salmon are allowed to be marketed in the US, Alaska will soon get on board and start their own “modified” farming program, relying less on their destructive to wild salmon ranching. This new ( to animal husbandry, old hat to agriculture) science seems to fit all the anti’s goals and objectives … sterile females, closed containment on land, less food needed to obtain an economically viable product, jobs, and perhaps the biggest bonus, hopefully less commercial fishing on dwindling wild stocks.
Sounds good to me.
I don't understand either, Dave. These are STERILE fish raised in closed containment on land. It meets many of the demands of critics of open net pen aquaculture, but because it has the name "GMO" attached to it then the critics come out and denounce it because they feel that either their health will be in danger from eating it (no evidence to back up those claims) or it will start breeding with other fish species (again, no evidence and misses the fact that they are sterile fish raised in closed containment). Critics are concerned that these sterile fish will escape closed containment? Ok...well, why do fish farm critics push for closed containment for aquaculture if there is a concern for escapees? It seems like when people involved in aquaculture attempt to do what their critics want they still get criticized for it. Sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Like it or not, this is the way of the future as the demand for seafood products starts to outpace supply which won't be satisfied by traditional capture fisheries which indiscriminately take out weaker stocks amongst stronger stocks. The US imports most of its seafood and is striving to produce more of it at home. Guess what? They won't be using more gillnets and seines to capture wild fish to fill the demand. Critics don't have to take my word for it - read the reports from the United Nation's Food and Agricultural Organization.
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/ten-reasons-why-some-sea-lice-research-claims-are-false.html
Most of this info makes assumptions about what happened based on survival rates, no hard evidence here to the contrary
The antibiotics and chemicals used to treat sea lice were more of a real problem for the pink salmon population here. The timing of the administering during the year was changed and this is now the norm for regulated use of these pesticides.
Another hired gun lobbying for the farm industry.Its funny how none of the environmental damage is ever mentioned .
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Most of this info makes assumptions about what happened based on survival rates, no hard evidence here to the contrary
The antibiotics and chemicals used to treat sea lice were more of a real problem for the pink salmon population here. The timing of the administering during the year was changed and this is now the norm for regulated use of these pesticides.
Another hired gun lobbying for the farm industry.Its funny how none of the environmental damage is ever mentioned .
No hard evidence that sea lice were the main cause of mortality either if you read the report. The title says, "Wild Salmon Mortality Caused By Salmon Farms". Who is making assumptions, Salmonrook? Antibiotics and chemicals used to treat sea lice were more of a real problem? Explain where this is mentioned in the Suzuki commissioned report as one of the cumulative impacts mentioned? What do you know about the use of antibiotics on BC fish farms?
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I don't understand either, Dave. These are STERILE fish raised in closed containment on land. It meets many of the demands of critics of open net pen aquaculture, but because it has the name "GMO" attached to it then the critics come out and denounce it because they feel that either their health will be in danger from eating it (no evidence to back up those claims) or it will start breeding with other fish species (again, no evidence and misses the fact that they are sterile fish raised in closed containment). Critics are concerned that these sterile fish will escape closed containment? Ok...well, why do fish farm critics push for closed containment for aquaculture if there is a concern for escapees? It seems like when people involved in aquaculture attempt to do what their critics want they still get criticized for it. Sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Like it or not, this is the way of the future as the demand for seafood products starts to outpace supply which won't be satisfied by traditional capture fisheries which indiscriminately take out weaker stocks amongst stronger stocks. The US imports most of its seafood and is striving to produce more of it at home. Guess what? They won't be using more gillnets and seines to capture wild fish to fill the demand. Critics don't have to take my word for it - read the reports from the United Nation's Food and Agricultural Organization.
So why have 60 grocery chains across N.America rejected it ,including the biggest Costco .Fact is their is no requirement for them to label it as GMO .So you are taking away consumers right to chose. We don't know the dangers that these gmo products have on health and until their has been solid science to prove out that there is no risk to human or animal health then I applaud Costco for taking such a position .
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No hard evidence that sea lice were the main cause of mortality either if you read the report. The title says, "Wild Salmon Mortality Caused By Salmon Farms". Who is making assumptions, Salmonrook? Antibiotics and chemicals used to treat sea lice were more of a real problem? Explain where this is mentioned in the Suzuki commissioned report as one of the cumulative impacts mentioned? What do you know about the use of antibiotics on BC fish farms?
" Explain where this is mentioned in the Suzuki commissioned report as one of the cumulative impacts mentioned?"
Its not and I am not the one mentioning the report , its you, to me that report is very vague in facts.
I get my info from other sources.You seem to mention the reports that have little to no backup with data .
Here are 2 .
http://www.artsandopinion.com/2005_v4_n2/slice.htm
I mentioned this one before .
https://www.watershed-watch.org/2012/11/nine-year-study-confirms-sea-lice-outbreaks-on-farms-cause-wild-salmon-declines%e2%80%94better-farm-management-a-short-term-solution/
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We don't know the dangers that these gmo products have on health and until their has been solid science to prove out that there is no risk to human or animal health then I applaud Costco for taking such a position .
So you're suggesting the FDA don't know what they're talking about? ::)
The fact that Canadian Costco stores imports it's Atlantic salmon from Chile and Norway rather than purchasing locally raised BC fish tells you a lot about their marketing strategies. Costco will be the first to come on line when the general public realizes these fish are perfectly safe to eat and a better product, environmentally, in many ways.
I agree however that it will take time before this happens as people in general dislike change.
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Fish farms are already feeding the dirty fish GMO products. As well as an arsenal of chemicals that don't require disclosure. So your not missing out on anything when you eat them Dave. :)
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/database/food/246.salmon.html
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Fish farms are already feeding the dirty fish GMO products. As well as an arsenal of chemicals that don't require disclosure. So your not missing out on anything when you eat them Dave. :)
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/database/food/246.salmon.html
You have your work cut out for you if you are against gmo's in feed TB. Good luck on that.
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/processed_foods/153.animal_feed_genetic_engineering.html
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/processed_foods/32.genetic_engineering_meats_sausage.html
This one just may cure your troutbreath. :)
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/news/497.enviropig_makes_its_d%E9but.html
https://gmoanswers.com/
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https://gmoanswers.com/ask/what-would-be-common-agreement-both-people-who-are-gmos-and-people-against
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Well well bawb posting links to your fellow fishfarm worker is less than informative. But that's not your point is it. More propaganda for the dirty fish.
http://www.desmog.ca/vivian-krause
"In 2002 Krause was hired to work for Nutreco Aquaculture, the world's largest producer of farmed salmon, as a Corporate Development Manager for North America. Much of her work involved responding to environmental concerns related to the farmed fish industry and to combat the “Farmed and Dangerous Campaign” run by the David Suzuki Foundation. She later wrote on her blog, “a lot of my job was PR.”
Looks to me that Vivian is being transparent which is what Doc Morton and her crusaders want, myself included. It is a terrible and unarguable shame that Doc Morton is so un-transparent. But that being said, Doc Morton gets nothing right anyway.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/12/29/alexandra-morton-jumps-on-the-anti-vaccine-crazy-train-with-funding-campaign-that-insults-donors/
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For the boys, 166 links to read if they have the time, will keep them busy for a while. ;D ;D
http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2015/07/key-document-fish-farm-news-bites.html
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Have you talked to Eddy yet ? ::) Gotta think he might bring more to this debate than you :D
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Remember...Real Salmon don't eat pellets, or steroids, or colourants, or antibiotics.
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Remember...Real Salmon don't eat pellets, or steroids, or colourants, or antibiotics.
Tell that to the Alaska salmon ranchers that pump out 1.5 billion salmon a year into the Pacific that has been fed by you know what. Also to the Washington Atlantic farmers salmon that have been fed by you know what, and the world wide poultry, pork and beef producers that are fed by you know what. Not to mention what goes into our pets feed, But then you must know that by now. Poor Fluffy lol. :)
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For the boys, 166 links to read if they have the time, will keep them busy for a while. ;D ;D
http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/2015/07/key-document-fish-farm-news-bites.html
Get back to me when your name is on the 16 membership. Oh never mind, seems you can join with what ever name you want. Not transparent at all except for what the site wants you to think. lol. :)
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Remember...Real Salmon don't eat pellets, or steroids, or colourants, or antibiotics.
Steroids?? Please elaborate.
Wild salmon eat lot's of antibiotics, along with loads of contaminants ... sadly they are part of the food chain nowadays. Whatever antibiotics you, your neighbor, or your mother uses goes down the toilet and ends up in.. yeah you guessed it, the ocean and eventually in wild salmon.
Know any lady using birth control pills? Guess where that estrogen and other hormones end up ... yeah, right again, in that wild coho you ate last night.
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Steroids?? Please elaborate.
Wild salmon eat lot's of antibiotics, along with loads of contaminants ... sadly they are part of the food chain nowadays. Whatever antibiotics you, your neighbor, or your mother uses goes down the toilet and ends up in.. yeah you guessed it, the ocean and eventually in wild salmon.
Know any lady using birth control pills? Guess where that estrogen and other hormones end up ... yeah, right again, in that wild coho you ate last night.
Dave, may I add that the same from farmed animals wash into the streams and rivers. The same water that is used for irrigation of the plant food we eat.
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Yes, we are making progress.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/buy-low-seachoice-sustainable-seafood-1.3336970?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-british-columbia
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Yes, we are making progress.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/buy-low-seachoice-sustainable-seafood-1.3336970?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-british-columbia
Thank you for showing me another marketing strategy Chris. Keep up the good work. :)
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Yes, we are making progress.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/buy-low-seachoice-sustainable-seafood-1.3336970?cmp=rss&cid=news-digests-british-columbia
It is great progress.
Now Bluefin tuna will not be sold in those stores
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I guess the only option we have when we fish out the wild is to farm them. Why in many cases does the farming start after the wild has been fished to near extinction and not before? Hence hatcheries, farms, the volunteers on garbage clean up and salmon stream enhancement. Even the person that picks up his buddies beer can. We are all fish farmers in the end. :)
http://youtu.be/m4r9XC6Ta-s
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I guess the only option we have when we fish out the wild is to farm them. Why in many cases does the farming start after the wild has been fished to near extinction and not before? Hence hatcheries, farms, the volunteers on garbage clean up and salmon stream enhancement. Even the person that picks up his buddies beer can. We are all fish farmers in the end. :)
http://youtu.be/m4r9XC6Ta-s
Well I guess your one of the few fishfarmers who gave money to Morton. Very interesting. Maybe you'll go full circle. :)
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Well I guess your one of the few fishfarmers who gave money to Morton. Very interesting. Maybe you'll go full circle. :)
How did I know you would say that TB. You are certainly one of a kind that sounds like a Hubbard that is talked about here. One of Mortons relations dont ya know. :)
http://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
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So you're suggesting the FDA don't know what they're talking about? ::)
They have approved many many products in the past and sometimes the approval has more to do with who's lobbying for them, I trust the Canadian standards more because we are traditionally more conservative .
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Steroids?? Please elaborate.
Wild salmon eat lot's of antibiotics, along with loads of contaminants ... sadly they are part of the food chain nowadays. Whatever antibiotics you, your neighbor, or your mother uses goes down the toilet and ends up in.. yeah you guessed it, the ocean and eventually in wild salmon.
Know any lady using birth control pills? Guess where that estrogen and other hormones end up ... yeah, right again, in that wild coho you ate last night.
Wow , you are really stretching the comparison here, comparing SLICE to the all the environmental pollution that unfortunately continues to affect all fish in the ocean ,including those in FF.
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You have your work cut out for you if you are against gmo's in feed TB. Good luck on that.
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/processed_foods/153.animal_feed_genetic_engineering.html
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/processed_foods/32.genetic_engineering_meats_sausage.html
This one just may cure your troutbreath. :)
http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/news/497.enviropig_makes_its_d%E9but.html
https://gmoanswers.com/
Most corn is gm to be resistant to pests, the problem is that eventually this is no longer effective and this gets modify more and it escalates.
The enviropig was developed in Canada at the U.of Guelph,last I read they had dropped the program because of lack of interest and lack of funding.
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They have approved many many products in the past and sometimes the approval has more to do with who's lobbying for them, I trust the Canadian standards more because we are traditionally more conservative .
Does that mean you trust salmon farming standards in Canada more than in the US?
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They are certainly better than Chile and Norway,but still lots of room for improvement ,hopefully the new govt limits there expansion (pollution)
I like the salmon ranching method in Alaska but don't know enough about the Wa state farms to compare to Canadian methods.
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They are certainly better than Chile and Norway,but still lots of room for improvement ,hopefully the new govt limits there expansion (pollution)
I like the salmon ranching method in Alaska but don't know enough about the Wa state farms to compare to Canadian methods.
i feel the same as you that any industry should strive for the better. Also i feel it is up to us to keep up to what they have already done to do so. Nobody knows much about Washington's Atlantic salmon farming because Doc Morton's home country is not on her or her crusaders radar. They will not bite the hand that feeds them. :)
Fyi on ranching.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/
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" Explain where this is mentioned in the Suzuki commissioned report as one of the cumulative impacts mentioned?"
Its not and I am not the one mentioning the report , its you, to me that report is very vague in facts.
I get my info from other sources.You seem to mention the reports that have little to no backup with data .
Here are 2 .
http://www.artsandopinion.com/2005_v4_n2/slice.htm
I mentioned this one before .
https://www.watershed-watch.org/2012/11/nine-year-study-confirms-sea-lice-outbreaks-on-farms-cause-wild-salmon-declines%e2%80%94better-farm-management-a-short-term-solution/
Yes, I did mention the Suzuki commissioned report because up to this point you have not answered my question on where you are getting your information from. I keep asking but you keep dodging. I brought up the Suzuki report (a report commissioned by an environmental non-governmental organization that openly opposes open net pen aquaculture) to see if you could find where antibiotics and chemicals are brought up in that report as one of those cumulative impacts. It may appear “vague” because the authors at that time believed there were multiple factors involved and that there was no direct evidence that available to suggest what particular factor caused the reduced survival of the 2000 brood in that area of the Broughton. From that standpoint, the authors are not that far off because if you had read Cohen (Remember that report I use with little to no backup with data…lol? The one with testimony from Dr. Randall Peterman…That guy with no data to backup his claims either?) you would have noticed that he didn’t conclude that sea lice, on a different front, were the main cause of Fraser Sockeye declines. I suggest that your opinion of the Suzuki report soured when it did not fully implicated salmon farms, so then it became “vague” and not worth mentioning anymore. First time I heard someone on this board that opposes fish farms disagree with a report commissioned by a group that opposes fish farms.
Unfortunately, “Arts & Opinion” is an opinion piece – not a scientific study. In fact, that website (dated 2005) contains no scientific references for the information it uses. It also talks about salmon farms in Maine which is a different regulatory environment. Cypermethrin is not even used on BC fish farms to my knowledge. It provides no context about the use of SLICE in BC such as frequency, conditions it is applied, or other management strategies. However, considering this is opinion piece is from 2005 I am not surprised that it is not current with what is going on today with fish husbandry. Antibiotic use on BC fish farms has decreased by more than half since 2005. It is actually 50 to 5 grams per tonne nowadays. It also provides no context about the frequency and what conditions antibiotics are used. Most of the feed provided to BC farmed fish contain no antibiotics. So much for this source of information.
The use of in-feed antibacterials in BC salmon aquaculture (1995 to 2012)
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/health-sante-eng.html
The study from Watershed Watch Salmon Society website you provided was the kind of example of a scientific study I was looking for. It is actually fairly similar to a particular study (with data to back it up) produced by the collaboration of scientists that are involved with BAMP:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0060096
The authors in the above study (note who the authors are) suggest that: Adapting the management of parasites on farmed salmon according to migrations of wild salmon may therefore provide a precautionary approach to conserving wild salmon populations in salmon farming regions.
Wow, people from different perspectives and backgrounds working together to put science first. Note the similar authors from the study you provided.
Here is another study (with data to back it up) that has come out at the same time (see below). Salmon farms may harm wild salmon, but it is not certain according to the authors because of other considerations mentioned in the study. They recommend that salmon farmers and fish managers continue to be proactive in what they are doing now which includes fallowing of sites. You may be interested to read near the end what the authors have to say about SLICE.
https://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/sealice_2012_phil-trans-r-soc-b-2012-brauner-1770-9.pdf
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/367/1596/1770.full (same study but in a different format)
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So why have 60 grocery chains across N.America rejected it ,including the biggest Costco .Fact is their is no requirement for them to label it as GMO .So you are taking away consumers right to chose. We don't know the dangers that these gmo products have on health and until their has been solid science to prove out that there is no risk to human or animal health then I applaud Costco for taking such a position .
If grocery stores are not carrying these fish it is not because they are not safe to eat. It is more than likely due to misinformed activists using fear mongering tactics to scare the public into signing petitions or directly contacting the stores to stop selling it. Fact is there are many foods you are likely eating right now that are GMO or have feeds that are GMO. But I agree with you that they should label these fish appropriately and tell the consumer what they are.
For instance, wild salmon taken in mixed stock fishery using gillnets should be labelled as such. They should do DNA/scale work on them so they can tell the consumer what stock they potentially came from. I am sure the consumer would like to know if they are about to purchase wild Sockeye from the Bowron or even Cultus. What about a wild Coho from Louis Creek? The same would apply with Alaskan ranched salmon which is marketed as “wild” but it certainly is not. They should call these ranched fish what they really are and not use a fictitious term as “wild”. The consumer should know what they are getting there would you agree?
I do not believe any amount of science will sway your opinion of GMO. The FDA did its due diligence while you have presented nothing to “back up” your concerns that we do not know the dangers. If you believe their science on this is not solid then perhaps you can tell me specifically where it is not solid.
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They have approved many many products in the past and sometimes the approval has more to do with who's lobbying for them, I trust the Canadian standards more because we are traditionally more conservative .
Do you mean that you will trust them up to the point they deviate from your perception of GMO fish?
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http://www.news1130.com/2015/11/22/first-nations-group-wants-govt-to-address-fish-farm-concerns/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ec16497ac-Salmon_News_Nov_25_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-8ec16497ac-166912013
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Living/2015-11-21/article-4344942/A-better-way-to-farm-salmon/1?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ec16497ac-Salmon_News_Nov_25_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-8ec16497ac-166912013
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http://www.news1130.com/2015/11/22/first-nations-group-wants-govt-to-address-fish-farm-concerns/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ec16497ac-Salmon_News_Nov_25_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-8ec16497ac-166912013
Nice atlantic salmon they used in that photo. LOL(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg.html)
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http://www.news1130.com/2015/11/22/first-nations-group-wants-govt-to-address-fish-farm-concerns/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ec16497ac-Salmon_News_Nov_25_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-8ec16497ac-166912013
Old news that has already discussed here, or did you not read it?
Beat me to it aqua ;D More shoddy journalism.
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Nice atlantic salmon they used in that photo. LOL(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg.html)
The interesting thing about Kuterra is you will only hear that they have put fish to market. You never hear the actual details. I have a few questions.
1. What conversion rate are these fish achieving and what size are the fish making it to market?
2. What are the mortality rates?
3. What is causing the mortality?
4. What are the details on the solid waist recovery and fertilizer production?
There is much more to this project then just getting some fish to the store.
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http://www.thetelegram.com/Living/2015-11-21/article-4344942/A-better-way-to-farm-salmon/1?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ec16497ac-Salmon_News_Nov_25_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-8ec16497ac-166912013
Nice heart felt story And so many "facts" left out.
http://www.doeni.gov.uk/niea/niea-waterpollutionincidents-and-enforcement2006.pdf
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More land pollution.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/thousands-of-fish-killed-in-limerick-water-pollution-incident-1.2242830
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/5187146.stm
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Thank you for showing me another marketing strategy Chris. Keep up the good work. :)
So you admit to being in the business of marketing farm salmon and are not just "Bob the fisherman"?
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http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/08/disease_kills_150000_fish_in_h.html
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So you admit to being in the business of marketing farm salmon and are not just "Bob the fisherman"?
I was talking about the stores marketing strategy. Presume what ever makes you happy and fits your thoughts. :)
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Nice atlantic salmon they used in that photo. LOL(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/salmon-878x494-1_zpsyxwxjylk.jpg.html)
Yes, while it was a wild one.lol
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Yes, while it was a wild one.lol
I assumed you would make such an assumption.
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I was talking about the stores marketing strategy. Presume what ever makes you happy and fits your thoughts. :)
You are way too active on this board for doing it just for fun.
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You are way too active on this board for doing it just for fun.
Once again, assume what ever makes you happy. Chris seems to have fun spending lots of time on here. Do you think a double standard is needed here? You may want to spend more time posting scientific facts than worrying about mythical thoughts of who I am. But if you are having fun, carry on. :)
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/alaskan-fisheries-allegedly-endangering-skeena-sockeye-1.1365058
"A 2008 report by the Skeena Independent Science Panel to the provincial and federal governments estimated that Alaskans catch approximately 23 per cent of all the sockeye harvested from the run."
http://www.adn.com/article/20140729/canadas-trawlers-drastically-cut-bycatch-why-cant-alaskas
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Once again, assume what ever makes you happy. Chris seems to have fun spending lots of time on here. Do you think a double standard is needed here? You may want to spend more time posting scientific facts than worrying about mythical thoughts of who I am. But if you are having fun, carry on. :)
Yes but I am paid thosands, mostly USA money to keep you boys in line.lol ;D ;D ;D
This along with the money I get as an advisor for the Toronto Maple Leafs are making me a very rich man but you do not read Sports Chat to get this. ;D
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Yes but I am paid thosands, mostly USA money to keep you boys in line.lol ;D ;D ;D
This along with the money I get as an advisor for the Toronto Maple Leafs are making me a very rich man but you do not read Sports Chat to get this. ;D
Good for you Chris. I am just having fun correcting you guys. :)
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Yes but I am paid thosands, mostly USA money to keep you boys in line.lol ;D ;D ;D
And let me guess, Almo and Eddie are your advisors ;)
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And let me guess, Almo and Eddie are your advisors ;)
And many more, some from the "Long Table", when you are not there.lol
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Once again, assume what ever makes you happy. Chris seems to have fun spending lots of time on here. Do you think a double standard is needed here? You may want to spend more time posting scientific facts than worrying about mythical thoughts of who I am. But if you are having fun, carry on. :)
I think there should be a double standard. look at what chris has done for his local rivers. from volunteering to sit on boards and have discussions, to actually doing the leg work and picking up garbage, and likely a host of other crap we have no idea about.
maybe your one of the guys that does a ton and wants ZERO recognition. I work closely with those types and without them my job would be very difficult.... it's you just don't come across that way...you like people to know when they are (or could be) wrong. and the zero recognition type don't usually roll like that. ;)
if your constant posting of propaganda links is the result of one 'bunk' donation, don't worry about it man, i bought something back in 1996 that was also bunk..... but I let it go.
maybe, with your stellar google skills you could start posting links where closed containment systems are becoming viable. or where REAL progress regarding environmental sustainability in these open pens is taking place. .. is that not what you want? legions upon legions of wild pacific salmon running free and healthy? or is that a conflict of interest?
my browser protector keeps telling me your salmon farm websites are also 'high risk' is that just a coincidence as well?
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Why is it when the anti-farm crowd has no science to back up their claim of farming being detrimental to wild, caricature attacks start. Nothing new though. I noticed it all the time when I was believing in Morton. Now it just seems silly. Btw I do not think it is anyones business or brag about who I donate to or volunteer for these days. Fun times though. :)
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I think there should be a double standard. look at what chris has done for his local rivers. from volunteering to sit on boards and have discussions, to actually doing the leg work and picking up garbage, and likely a host of other crap we have no idea about.
maybe your one of the guys that does a ton and wants ZERO recognition. I work closely with those types and without them my job would be very difficult.... it's you just don't come across that way...you like people to know when they are (or could be) wrong. and the zero recognition type don't usually roll like that. ;)
if your constant posting of propaganda links is the result of one 'bunk' donation, don't worry about it man, i bought something back in 1996 that was also bunk..... but I let it go.
maybe, with your stellar google skills you could start posting links where closed containment systems are becoming viable. or where REAL progress regarding environmental sustainability in these open pens is taking place. .. is that not what you want? legions upon legions of wild pacific salmon running free and healthy? or is that a conflict of interest?
my browser protector keeps telling me your salmon farm websites are also 'high risk' is that just a coincidence as well?
Another good post Banx, as usual. … Chris does tons for angler and fish advocacy; of that there is no doubt. His work with the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and Chilliwack Vedder River Clean up Society is unquestioned and is perhaps the reason these two organizations are still functioning and functioning well.
Here’s the thing though … he firmly believes BC salmon farms are the biggest reason salmon populations are declining. Some here, me especially, don’t believe that; we think there are far more and bigger reasons and all have been discussed here and on other sites, ad nauseam.
When Chris posts what he posts, a few of try to show the many younger readers on this site he may not be scientifically accurate, may simply be “posting from the heart”, or what he has been told by others. For some of us that is simply not good enough, hence our posts. I think Fisherbobs posts reflect that line of thinking.
I suggest if people don’t like what we say, dismiss it and go on to other things.
Interestingly, although Chris and I fight like cats and dogs on salmon farming here on FWR, and at the Long Table (although he is not nearly as vocal there ;)) we are really pretty good friends … perhaps it's something to do with aging that does that to people with nearly common interests ;D
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Another good post Banx, as usual. … Chris does tons for angler and fish advocacy; of that there is no doubt. His work with the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and Chilliwack Vedder River Clean up Society is unquestioned and is perhaps the reason these two organizations are still functioning and functioning well.
Here’s the thing though … he firmly believes BC salmon farms are the biggest reason salmon populations are declining. Some here, me especially, don’t believe that; we think there are far more and bigger reasons and all have been discussed here and on other sites, ad nauseam.
When Chris posts what he posts, a few of try to show the many younger readers on this site he may not be scientifically accurate, may simply be “posting from the heart”, or what he has been told by others. For some of us that is simply not good enough, hence our posts. I think Fisherbobs posts reflect that line of thinking.
I suggest if people don’t like what we say, dismiss it and go on to other things.
Interestingly, although Chris and I fight like cats and dogs on salmon farming here on FWR, and at the Long Table (although he is not nearly as vocal there ;)) we are really pretty good friends … perhaps it's something to do with aging that does that to people with nearly common interests ;D
I will sleep well tonight after reading this but tomorrow is another day. ;D ;D ;D
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Just don't post crap and we'll be fine :) Go to bed oldtimer ;)
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Yes, I did mention the Suzuki commissioned report because up to this point you have not answered my question on where you are getting your information from. I keep asking but you keep dodging. I brought up the Suzuki report (a report commissioned by an environmental non-governmental organization that openly opposes open net pen aquaculture) to see if you could find where antibiotics and chemicals are brought up in that report as one of those cumulative impacts. It may appear “vague” because the authors at that time believed there were multiple factors involved and that there was no direct evidence that available to suggest what particular factor caused the reduced survival of the 2000 brood in that area of the Broughton. From that standpoint, the authors are not that far off because if you had read Cohen (Remember that report I use with little to no backup with data…lol? The one with testimony from Dr. Randall Peterman…That guy with no data to backup his claims either?) you would have noticed that he didn’t conclude that sea lice, on a different front, were the main cause of Fraser Sockeye declines. I suggest that your opinion of the Suzuki report soured when it did not fully implicated salmon farms, so then it became “vague” and not worth mentioning anymore. First time I heard someone on this board that opposes fish farms disagree with a report commissioned by a group that opposes fish farms.
That report was inconclusive why would I use it to backup my point ?My opinion never soured as I didn't choose the report in the first place,you did, probably because it was inconclusive to make your point.
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Unfortunately, “Arts & Opinion” is an opinion piece – not a scientific study. In fact, that website (dated 2005) contains no scientific references for the information it uses. It also talks about salmon farms in Maine which is a different regulatory environment. Cypermethrin is not even used on BC fish farms to my knowledge. It provides no context about the use of SLICE in BC such as frequency, conditions it is applied, or other management strategies. However, considering this is opinion piece is from 2005 I am not surprised that it is not current with what is going on today with fish husbandry. Antibiotic use on BC fish farms has decreased by more than half since 2005. It is actually 50 to 5 grams per tonne nowadays. It also provides no context about the frequency and what conditions antibiotics are used. Most of the feed provided to BC farmed fish contain no antibiotics. So much for this source of information.
Its tells of past practices and does have info on Slice and it doesn't matter that you call it an 'opinion piece" it still has info and numbers on what was done for the time .The fact is the industry learned from this over use of antibiotic and as you say they don't use as much and at a different frequency during the year.Good did come out of this and trust the data in this report /article.
You have quoted the dfo website as well and while they do report info, one is never sure how much is included.
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Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.
The interview starts at 3:10
https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
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That report was inconclusive why would I use it to backup my point ?My opinion never soured as I didn't choose the report in the first place,you did, probably because it was inconclusive to make your point.
The study wasn't inconclusive - that's your own conclusion.
The authors state:
We conclude that this low productivity is a result of cumulative impacts from marine adult migration,
through freshwater spawning and incubation, to early marine residence.
I never suggested that I thought the study was inconclusive - you did.
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Its tells of past practices and does have info on Slice and it doesn't matter that you call it an 'opinion piece" it still has info and numbers on what was done for the time .The fact is the industry learned from this over use of antibiotic and as you say they don't use as much and at a different frequency during the year.Good did come out of this and trust the data in this report /article.
You have quoted the dfo website as well and while they do report info, one is never sure how much is included.
Hey, if you want to defend that garbage go ahead - I won't. Funny how you want information backed up, but that opinion piece provides no references in order to back up that information and numbers. I attached the DFO website because the graphs show how much antibiotics and SLICE have been used since the mid-90s. If you are not sure if it's not all included you could contact that aquaculture branch. With Trudeau at the helm now you should get a quicker response.
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Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.
The interview starts at 3:10
https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
This is how it should be. Now the department can be more proactive and respond to these questions instead of having activists interpret what they are saying. Scientists like Miller should be able to come right out and respond about the science she is involved in. It will be more difficult now for people like Morton to twist the facts or cherry pick what should be relayed to the public. Thanks Mr. Prime Minister!
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The study wasn't inconclusive - that's your own conclusion.
The authors state:
We conclude that this low productivity is a result of cumulative impacts from marine adult migration,
through freshwater spawning and incubation, to early marine residence.
I never suggested that I thought the study was inconclusive - you did.
Yup, it sure doesn't draw a single clear conclusion
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Yup, it sure doesn't draw a single clear conclusion
Rarely do you get single factors acting alone in biological systems as they can be inter-related, but I can understand how many fish farm critics would like a single smoking gun.
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Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.
The interview starts at 3:10
https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
Very interesting and worth the watch. Thanks Aquapaloosa :)
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Very interesting and worth the watch. Thanks Aquapaloosa :)
Wow! The virus was not found in Atlantic salmon and was found in sockeye 1000km from the Fraser River (and fish farms) Wow!
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Wow! The virus was not found in Atlantic salmon and was found in sockeye 1000km from the Fraser River (and fish farms) Wow!
Looks like Doc Mortons anti-farming myths will be dealt with in a timely fashion now with the unmuzzling. The only argument the hard core antis will have, will be, they are payed to say that LOL. I doubt the old, gov are in the pockets of the farmers finger pointing will go away any time soon. :)
Thanks again for the link Aqua. Miller time at 3:00. :)
http://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
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I think I will be talking to my MP shortly to try to get fish farms banned outright in BC.
Maybe the Minister, as well.
Why take chances with foreign owned companies when they can setup shop elsewhere in the world where there are no native salmon stocks to harm?
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You said nearly the same thing 10 days ago Easywater. Let us know how that conversation goes ;D
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Why is it when the anti-farm crowd has no science to back up their claim of farming being detrimental to wild, caricature attacks start. Nothing new though. I noticed it all the time when I was believing in Morton. Now it just seems silly. Btw I do not think it is anyones business or brag about who I donate to or volunteer for these days. Fun times though. :)
really bob? theres plenty of 'science' that says farms are likely detrimental to wild stocks. I have yet to read a report that says an open pen floating in the ocean is beneficial to wild stocks, beneficial to the environment or beneficial to the other organisms in the immediate area.......
i summed up the cohen report as 'ya, farms aren't to blame, but they're not exactly good either'
I don't see a caricature attack. i asked if you actually cared about wild stocks or if it was a conflict of interest....
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Another good post Banx, as usual. … Chris does tons for angler and fish advocacy; of that there is no doubt. His work with the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and Chilliwack Vedder River Clean up Society is unquestioned and is perhaps the reason these two organizations are still functioning and functioning well.
Here’s the thing though … he firmly believes BC salmon farms are the biggest reason salmon populations are declining. Some here, me especially, don’t believe that; we think there are far more and bigger reasons and all have been discussed here and on other sites, ad nauseam.
When Chris posts what he posts, a few of try to show the many younger readers on this site he may not be scientifically accurate, may simply be “posting from the heart”, or what he has been told by others. For some of us that is simply not good enough, hence our posts. I think Fisherbobs posts reflect that line of thinking.
I suggest if people don’t like what we say, dismiss it and go on to other things.
Interestingly, although Chris and I fight like cats and dogs on salmon farming here on FWR, and at the Long Table (although he is not nearly as vocal there ;)) we are really pretty good friends … perhaps it's something to do with aging that does that to people with nearly common interests ;D
thanks. I agree with you on the whole 'not the biggest reason' and I believe in accurate science. i appreciate the links steve usually posts as well because they do not start with www.salmonfarms-are-awesome.com
for all of humanity's accomplishments and talents i'm sure there is a way to make this farming profitable and better for the environment without them just floating around in an open pen.
i personally feel though, that as man has played god with other species we farm, we have created problems. and I don't think the 'strongest regulations' in the world can prevent mother nature from mutating.
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really bob? theres plenty of 'science' that says farms are likely detrimental to wild stocks. I have yet to read a report that says an open pen floating in the ocean is beneficial to wild stocks, beneficial to the environment or beneficial to the other organisms in the immediate area.......
i summed up the cohen report as 'ya, farms aren't to blame, but they're not exactly good either'
I don't see a caricature attack. i asked if you actually cared about wild stocks or if it was a conflict of interest....
Realy Banx? Implying conflict of interest? Looks like you want me to post only links that you want to hear. That to me is propaganda. If you actually took the time to open my links and see the links they provide you will find that, yes I do care about wild stocks. There are still many problems with closed containment and I would not brag about one that says we are doing it right and sea pens are doing it wrong while at the same time not being transparent them selves at all. That seems to be a conflict of interest to me.
Also, you imply that farms are likely detrimental and then not to blame. Can you make up my mind for me. On top of that, nobody is stopping you from posting links that you would like to debate about. Warning, some of us do not do face book. Join the fun not the fight. :)
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Wow! The virus was not found in Atlantic salmon and was found in sockeye 1000km from the Fraser River (and fish farms) Wow!
Not found in chinooks either.
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Not found in chinooks either.
Looking forward to hearing more about the parasite found as well. Glad I voted Liberal as now it's pretty obvious people like Miller-Saunders are going to be interviewed regularly and the media will lap this stuff up. It's all good.
I'm sure this latest video will turn Almo's hair white, oh wait ... ;D
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I'm sure almo is busy going through her blog feverishly making omissions on anything parvo.
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Posting for information purposes..
http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2013-2017/2015AGRI0050-001218.htm
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Realy Banx? Implying conflict of interest? Looks like you want me to post only links that you want to hear. That to me is propaganda. If you actually took the time to open my links and see the links they provide you will find that, yes I do care about wild stocks. There are still many problems with closed containment and I would not brag about one that says we are doing it right and sea pens are doing it wrong while at the same time not being transparent them selves at all. That seems to be a conflict of interest to me.
Also, you imply that farms are likely detrimental and then not to blame. Can you make up my mind for me. On top of that, nobody is stopping you from posting links that you would like to debate about. Warning, some of us do not do face book. Join the fun not the fight. :)
yes really bob. no I'm fine with you posting links from other organizations other than your top three that start with www.salmonfarm. and most of those are written with such personal bias it's tough to believe they are being impartial.
also robert, it's also possible for something to be detrimental and not the root cause of a problem....
take for instance the seymour river estuary. there's no real habitat due to industrial development for these smolts to grow, they get flushed out pretty quick. literally.....a bunch of them end up in the capilano (steelhead radio tagged)..... now ask these same fish to swim by a few farms where sea lice can be, here's the word, detrimental. would a farm be the sole culprit of that fish not surviving... of course not, but does it benefit that fish? no. obviously it doesn't.
does that not make sense to you?
post all you want bob, everybody's got a job to do man, bills to pay. you know how it is :-*
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yes really bob. no I'm fine with you posting links from other organizations other than your top three that start with www.salmonfarm. and most of those are written with such personal bias it's tough to believe they are being impartial.
also robert, it's also possible for something to be detrimental and not the root cause of a problem....
take for instance the seymour river estuary. there's no real habitat due to industrial development for these smolts to grow, they get flushed out pretty quick. literally.....a bunch of them end up in the capilano (steelhead radio tagged)..... now ask these same fish to swim by a few farms where sea lice can be, here's the word, detrimental. would a farm be the sole culprit of that fish not surviving... of course not, but does it benefit that fish? no. obviously it doesn't.
does that not make sense to you?
post all you want bob, everybody's got a job to do man, bills to pay. you know how it is :-*
How about you get back to me when you can sound a little bit less angry next time. I am up for questions, but please reread your post. A link to a scientific study that points farmed sea lice to be detrimental to wild would help. From the studies I have seen and posted, farmed salmon enter the salt water farm disease and lice free and monitered during the time to harvest. By now Morton should know this. Then mayby she does and that could be why her hair is white now. :)
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How about you get back to me when you can sound a little bit less angry next time. I am up for questions, but please reread your post. A link to a scientific study that points farmed sea lice is detrimental to wild would help. From the studies I have seen and posted, farmed salmon enter the salt water farm disease and lice free and monitered during the time to harvest. By now Morton should know this. Could be why her hair is white now. :)
a scientific study that says sea lice is detrimental? wow, come on man, maybe just drop back 47 or so pages. they are there, several, from the metric tons of antibiotics used, to the condition of bottom, yadda yadda it goes on..... I spoke my piece. had to back it up and eat my words a few times. but i'm pretty sure the 90's were golden. golden bobby.
for the record, yet again, i am not a morton fan, supporter, or previous sponsor, nor am I angry.
i know the cuts run deep bob. but maybe with regards to morton you can just....
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/letitgo.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/letitgo.jpg.html)
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a scientific study that says sea lice is detrimental? wow, come on man, maybe just drop back 47 or so pages. they are there, several, from the metric tons of antibiotics used, to the condition of bottom, yadda yadda it goes on..... I spoke my piece. had to back it up and eat my words a few times. but i'm pretty sure the 90's were golden. golden bobby.
for the record, yet again, i am not a morton fan, supporter, or previous sponsor, nor am I angry.
i know the cuts run deep bob. but maybe with regards to morton you can just....
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/letitgo.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/letitgo.jpg.html)
Sheeesh. You really need to do some thing better than that. All you had to do was at least re-post one of them to prove my links are crap, or you can take your own advice,, move on and get over it. :)
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"There are still many problems with closed containment and I would not brag about one that says we are doing it right and sea pens are doing it wrong while at the same time not being transparent them selves at all. That seems to be a conflict of interest to me. "
http://www.kuterra.com/facts/news
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Sheeesh. You really need to do some thing better than that. All you had to do was at least re-post one of them to prove my links are crap, or you can take your own advice,, move on and get over it. :)
i thought it was funny
anyways, that's not what you asked. you asked me to post a study saying sea lice is detrimental.... ::) i said go back 40 or 50 odd pages. I posted quite a few studies, etc and so have others. there's 120+ pages of links, studies, rebuttals, questions and concerns..... maybe like 8 if you removed all of yours... If you can't remember, or are not in the mood to scroll back that's fine with me. there's a ton of information in this thread.... i will let it go.
again, i do read your links, and i find some have personal undertones. it honestly makes it feel like they are being biased..... and the domain name itself. most are accurate, i will give you that. just combining the domain name and the writing style makes it less believable though.
hopefully you find closure with that $60 donation soon.
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The way stores are dropping the dirty fish from their product list these day's, Bawb can look forward to selling them out the back of his truck. ;D Better deal than when he was shovelling "Money to Morton" from the old pick up. No Dire Straights for you Bawb.
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The way stores are dropping the dirty fish from their product list these day's, Bawb can look forward to selling them out the back of his truck. ;D Better deal than when he was shovelling "Money to Morton" from the old pick up. No Dire Straights for you Bawb.
Yes, good to see the Boycott paying off now as the oppositions continues to grow on so many levels.
A recent letter helps as well.http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/article_4770941a-954f-11e5-9ecf-ff5e6c87302a.html
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Yes, good to see the Boycott paying off now as the oppositions continues to grow on so many levels.
A recent letter helps as well.http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/article_4770941a-954f-11e5-9ecf-ff5e6c87302a.html
Do you really believe that garbage Chris? Escaped Atlantics' threaten to displace Pacific salmon? Really?
Did you actually read it?
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Do you really believe that garbage Chris? Escaped Atlantics' threaten to displace Pacific salmon? Really?
Did you actually read it?
Just posting the letter for those intersted in reading it. ;D
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http://www.aquaculture.ca/files/documents/CAIA_Sealice_Info_20Dec07.pdf
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http://www.aquaculture.ca/files/documents/CAIA_Sealice_Info_20Dec07.pdf
Blast from the good old past when fishfarmers could throw the old curve ball. But that's 2007 Bawb. Nowadays their taking the product off the shelf. Fill the truck and try your luck fish mongering the beasties. No money typing on the net citing the old days. Good luck.
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Blast from the good old past when fishfarmers could throw the old curve ball. But that's 2007 Bawb. Nowadays their taking the product off the shelf. Fill the truck and try your luck fish mongering the beasties. No money typing on the net citing the old days. Good luck.
LOL!!! Chris does it all the time ;D (but I don't think he reads 'em, too busy ;))
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"There are still many problems with closed containment and I would not brag about one that says we are doing it right and sea pens are doing it wrong while at the same time not being transparent them selves at all. That seems to be a conflict of interest to me. "
http://www.kuterra.com/facts/news
I read the media articles related to that link you provided. Surprisingly, I found them mostly informative and interesting because usually the reporting on these issues is kind of poor (in my opinion). I do not see the conflict of interest you apparently observe. Personally, I have nothing against closed containment and do not wish them to fail – actually the opposite. Namgis officials make good points about controlling conditions, better able to avoid diseases from the wild, grow fish at a faster rate, and the recycling of waste into things like biofuel. However, at this stage it is difficult for them because their operations are not at a stage that can meet the growing demand for seafood protein which increases more and more each year. This is why I believe Aqua Bounty will eventually find stable markets for their genetically modified Atlantic Salmon. Those fish grow even faster, needing less feed, and are raised in closed containment. What was interesting to read was that the Federal government was one of the funding sources for the Namgis project which opponents of open net pen aquaculture do not really mention.
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Yes, good to see the Boycott paying off now as the oppositions continues to grow on so many levels.
A recent letter helps as well.http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/article_4770941a-954f-11e5-9ecf-ff5e6c87302a.html
These almost seem like form letters where some activist creates these and just leaves a space at the end for someone's name. Shawn Calvert apparently didn't read the Cohen Report either. Ignorance continues to grow on so many levels.
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I read the media articles related to that link you provided. Surprisingly, I found them mostly informative and interesting because usually the reporting on these issues is kind of poor (in my opinion). I do not see the conflict of interest you apparently observe. Personally, I have nothing against closed containment and do not wish them to fail – actually the opposite. Namgis officials make good points about controlling conditions, better able to avoid diseases from the wild, grow fish at a faster rate, and the recycling of waste into things like biofuel. However, at this stage it is difficult for them because their operations are not at a stage that can meet the growing demand for seafood protein which increases more and more each year. This is why I believe Aqua Bounty will eventually find stable markets for their genetically modified Atlantic Salmon. Those fish grow even faster, needing less feed, and are raised in closed containment. What was interesting to read was that the Federal government was one of the funding sources for the Namgis project which opponents of open net pen aquaculture do not really mention.
He was quoting me Steve. You are right and thanks :)
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I was trying to find out where that quote was coming from. I thought it was coming from the link even. My apologies to Rook.
Anyway, my main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they keep bringing up.
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I was trying to find out where that quote was coming from. I thought it was coming from the link even. My apologies to Rook.
Anyway, my main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they keep bringing up.
I hear ya. I was talking before about this artical. The funding and who funds the anti propaganda. Neat to see where the smolts came from.
http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/2013/08/namgis-pin-hopes-on-closed-containment-fish-farm/
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I doubt Namgis will have any problem covering the largest expense of closed containment and may not be all that it is cracked up to be.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=886949
The river flow chart data link is a must see on this link
https://www.brookfieldrenewable.com/content/asset_information/kokish_river_hydro-37702.html
Well at least we tried. I find it most interesting to see some of the "Keep the Kokish wild organizations and individuals" names have jumped on the closed containment "only" band wagon.
https://www.watershed-watch.org/2012/03/watershed-watch-signs-on-with-more-than-50-organizations-to-say-keep-the-kokish-river-wild/
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Always wondered how the Namgis were going to pay for the electricity at their closed containment site ... now we know.
I agree, it's interesting who some of the "players" are in this; Willie Mitchell is a financial backer of Kuterra salmon, but also signed on to keep the Kokish River wild. Not really blaming him but his financial advisors should have kept him in the loop I think.
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Always wondered how the Namgis were going to pay for the electricity at their closed containment site ... now we know.
I agree, it's interesting who some of the "players" are in this; Willie Mitchell is a financial backer of Kuterra salmon, but also signed on to keep the Kokish River wild. Not really blaming him but his financial advisors should have kept him in the loop I think.
Poor Willie. Where is his heart at - his investment in Kuterra salmon or the Kokish River?
Similar to the gravel removal on the Fraser, First Nations do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with environmentalists it seems.
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I doubt Namgis will have any problem covering the largest expense of closed containment and may not be all that it is cracked up to be.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=886949
The river flow chart data link is a must see on this link
https://www.brookfieldrenewable.com/content/asset_information/kokish_river_hydro-37702.html
Well at least we tried. I find it most interesting to see some of the "Keep the Kokish wild organizations and individuals" names have jumped on the closed containment "only" band wagon.
https://www.watershed-watch.org/2012/03/watershed-watch-signs-on-with-more-than-50-organizations-to-say-keep-the-kokish-river-wild/
I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.
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I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.
Too lazy? There are many reasons for me not wanting to re-read any of your little "who can post the most links" contest but I can assure that laziness is not one of them. And for anyone to believe that either position has a monopoly on "facts" is idiotic.
Normally I wouldn't use words like idiotic but I guess I was just too lazy to frame my response properly.
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It is a fact that you need power to run closed containment. In this case it is a run of the river power plant for it.
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I am very sorry for reposting this to a new page of facts. However I feel that there are a few people that are too lazy to scroll back or answer questions. This repost is for them.
Too lazy? There are many reasons for me not wanting to re-read any of your little "who can post the most links" contest but I can assure that laziness is not one of them. And for anyone to believe that either position has a monopoly on "facts" is idiotic.
Normally I wouldn't use words like idiotic but I guess I was just too lazy to frame my response properly.
ya no $hit. I actually went fishing yesterday bob. something I don't think you've done since maybe 1974. when grandpappi took you out with a worm and a stick.
I figured I'd take a page out of your play book, and post links while on company time. :D
your sea lice link was from 2007. and the 'science' from 2005.... it's 2015. 2013 was a great run, 2015 not so much.
also, a classic highlight, funded by the Canadian Aquaculture Industry Alliance, a national industry association, headquartered in ottawa. It represents the interests of canadian aquaculture operators, feed companies, suppliers.... standard procedure bobby.
" it remains debatable whether the transfer from the farmed salmon to the wild salmon could be on a sufficient scale to have an impact".... "we don't know if there is sufficient enough transfer." Dr. Kevin Butterworth. That to me is sound science, very, very sound.
and now, you will say that well, these refugee fish have no lice when they enter the ocean... it's the wild that gives it to them. Then wouldn't you want to protect your investment by removing them? does that make sense? if you can't predict future wouldn't you want to ensure your investment is safe?
why are you such a strong supporter of pens bob? what do you have to lose? I honestly doubt you even made a donation to morton and it is a front for you. If you did, it would have been tax deductible, so maybe you actually kept it for your tax records. As I do with my tax donations..... a photo would be appreciated..... you know, so people here actually feel your legit.
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anti-environmental-opposition-to-gmo-salmon/
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Where has farmed salmon in Washington and BC harmed wild salmon Banx?
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answer my questions. or, scroll back 47 pages...... it's there. or are you too lazy? ::)
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It is a fact that you need power to run closed containment. In this case it is a run of the river power plant for it.
So open pens have no power on shore? Everything done with aa batteries and flashlights? the pumps are run by hamsters on wheels? Candle light?
I don;t see your point with a closed system requiring electricity.
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If you are asking me if I Kill wild salmon, then yes I do. These days I feel that farming takes the stress off the wild and leaves more for us sport fishers to enjoy. We are very lucky to still have the opportunity to do so compared to other parts of the world that have been fished out. I have just winterized my boat and have her tied up nice and snug till March. So no, I didn't go fishing this weekend. Great Grey Cup though. :)
I do take the time to go back and read Banx. I still have not found your boogie man in the closet. Perhaps you can educate me by showing me where farmed salmon harm the wild.
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So open pens have no power on shore? Everything done with aa batteries and flashlights? the pumps are run by hamsters on wheels? Candle light?
I don;t see your point with a closed system requiring electricity.
Do open net pens use pumps? I thought they used tide flow. Guess I may be wrong. Sorry Banx, I can not answer that. Maybe some one that has visited a farm can tell us. :)
Are you fine with run of the river power to run closed containment? That seems to be the case for the Namgis.
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so there's nothing on shore then bob? no structures, no supplies, no power? no environmental impact at all. there is zero infrastructure supporting an open pen facility? is that what your saying?
theres a link there bob, its from a study done in the 90's. i'm sure you have the time to browse through. i'm not paid to post links like you though.....
I like how you used the term "us sports fishers" brilliant.
i'm sure the tax receipt to morton is probably onboard your boat right? put away for the winter...... ::)
my understanding would be that yes an open net pen would require a set of several pumps, and holding tanks. at least from what i've read. because my understanding is that when the fish get 'sick' they are sometimes removed from the ocean to provide treatment.... that would require some sort of either moving water via circulation pumps, or an air pump providing oxygen to said tank.
is that how it works on your farm? or do you have a different setup? some pictures of how things are done on your farm would be great. probably better than google images.
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It looks like you may have let me get under your skin a bit. Sorry for that Banx. But Really, I do not see the need for you to make up stories in an attempt to prove your point of view. How ever, all the power to you if it makes you feel better.
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Here is a good synopsis of closed containment salmon farming recommendations for Canada. I have only browsed this paper but from what I did read it seems all it would take is money to get them going. GM fish might even make it economical.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Committee/411/FOPO/Reports/RP5994887/foporp03/foporp03-e.pdf
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I read the media articles related to that link you provided. Surprisingly, I found them mostly informative and interesting because usually the reporting on these issues is kind of poor (in my opinion). I do not see the conflict of interest you apparently observe. Personally, I have nothing against closed containment and do not wish them to fail – actually the opposite. Namgis officials make good points about controlling conditions, better able to avoid diseases from the wild, grow fish at a faster rate, and the recycling of waste into things like biofuel. However, at this stage it is difficult for them because their operations are not at a stage that can meet the growing demand for seafood protein which increases more and more each year. This is why I believe Aqua Bounty will eventually find stable markets for their genetically modified Atlantic Salmon. Those fish grow even faster, needing less feed, and are raised in closed containment. What was interesting to read was that the Federal government was one of the funding sources for the Namgis project which opponents of open net pen aquaculture do not really mention.
This is a successful way to farm in my view, they are on board with working to watch what environmental issues they can cause and are careful to mitigate them. Because of this ,I know that this salmon is popular with the restaurant trade because they can truthfully claim that its farmed sustainably .The other farm operation is Creative Salmon ,they farm chinook, but like Kuterra they have their eyes on the waste and impacts on the environment .This is the better way .But unfortunately its hard to beat a fresh wild sockeye for flavour, imo.
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Poor Willie. Where is his heart at - his investment in Kuterra salmon or the Kokish River?
Similar to the gravel removal on the Fraser, First Nations do not necessarily see eye-to-eye with environmentalists it seems.
Wille Mitchell is an avid fisherman and like me, wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. Kuterra farm is a great idea,takes the pressure off wild fish in a sustainable manner .But clearly your inference that the run of river project is paying for the fish farm ?????
Surely the capital cost is paid off over years of the profits from the product.
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Do open net pens use pumps? I thought they used tide flow. Guess I may be wrong. Sorry Banx, I can not answer that. Maybe some one that has visited a farm can tell us. :)
Are you fine with run of the river power to run closed containment? That seems to be the case for the Namgis.
Yah that's it, they don't need pumps , just let the effluent flow out with the tide.........
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Kinda like Victoria.
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/09/29/critics-still-talking-crap-about-farmed-salmon-poop/
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Seems to me that in order to make a closed cotainment pay off, a run of the river power plant is needed.
I am not bashing closed containment. I feel they have a long way to go before i would say they are invironmentaly freindly.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/08/13/closed-containment-salmon-farming-less-attractive-as-worlds-freshwater-sucked-up/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/09/29/critics-still-talking-crap-about-farmed-salmon-poop/
Yes, nice stuff on the ocean bottom under the pens. ::) https://youtu.be/4QKwEsaACsk
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Yes, nice stuff on the ocean bottom under the pens. ::) https://youtu.be/4QKwEsaACsk
Thanks for the vid Chris. I am taking a guess that their affect on the public would not be near the same if they had a bottom sample from the same depth far away from a farm to compare it with. But that is not the story they want us to hear.
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Yes, nice stuff on the ocean bottom under the pens. ::) https://youtu.be/4QKwEsaACsk
I wonder what we would find at the end of the sewer pipe leading from Chilliwack's treatment plant in the Fraser River?
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Bottom sampling at 5:00 min.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/video-eng.html
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It looks like you may have let me get under your skin a bit. Sorry for that Banx. But Really, I do not see the need for you to make up stories in an attempt to prove your point of view. However, all the power to you if it makes you feel better.
you are correct, you have gotten under my skin. You demand evidence of people opposing farms yet you deflect every question addressing your own credibility. No one I have met personally supports open pen farming as it stands. The only logical reason someone would be a supporter is if they have a financial association with it. I don't think your a stupid human being, so that only leaves money.
You have failed to support any of your claims regarding being a 'sports fisher' and you have also failed to substantiate your claims of being a supporter of morton. All of which leads me to conclude that moving to closed containment is in fact a conflict of interest for you. Again I don't think i'm making up stories..... but your welcome to prove me wrong.
regardless of what has transpired all over the world and the fact that man has had his actions backfire each time he has played god you are still pro open pen.
we have seen diseases/viruses develop in other species we farm and have paid the consequences. Yet, in your eyes, allowing these pens to float around in some of the most pristine environments in the world mingling with a myraid of natural occurring species is all fine and dandy...... just blows my mind. seriously, like boom.
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22599.full.pdf
Because farm-source sea lice accounted for 98% of the variability
in wild salmon sea lice prevalence from 2002 to 2009 and
sea lice were sometimes common on farmed Atlantic salmon
during the 1990s, farm-source sea lice probably infested juvenile
pink salmon many years before they were first examined for sea
lice in 2001 (1). As evidence, we show that sea lice were abundant
on farm fish in 2000 (Fig. 1). Before 2000, farm fish sea lice were
usually not quantified, but infestations were common enough that
sea lice treatment options were investigated in the early 1990s
http://www.ecoserve.ie/projects/sealice/caligus3.pdf
Although noticeable effects of environmental factors such
as season and salinity affect farm lice levels, any natural patterns of lice variation were masked by considerable
variations in levels within and between farms caused by local conditions and farm management practices. Recycling of infection within farms is common but there is evidence that fallowing of farm sites between generations of stocks can greatly reduce lice levels.
The pattern of changes in salmonid populations was considered to be too complex to easily summarise but generally, it was considered that an overall problem in salmonid populations occurred mainly due to an increase in the post-smolt mortality.
There is no doubt that heavy lice infections are highly pathogenic both in farmed and wild fish. Heavy infections with juvenile stages of lice can stress fish but most of the gross pathology and mortality is caused by preadult and adult lice, particularly immediately following development of the lice to the pre-adult stage.
http://www.seaweb.org/resources/documents/reports_farmingsalmon.pdf
Similarly, sea lice, which previously had been rarely observed on wild salmon, now are
regularly found on wild salmon in Ireland, Scotland, and Norway. Heavy infestations of
sea lice appear to cause higher mortality of smolts at sea.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/338123.pdf
Sea lice have been reported to cause serious disease in many seawater netpen facilities
http://www.seaweb.org/resources/documents/reports_farmingsalmon.pdf
By 1995, Atlantic salmon that had escaped from salmon cages were reported in 18 rivers in British Columbia. Commercial fishermen in this part of the Pacific Ocean reported a tenfold increase in their catch of Atlantic salmon. In producing 32,000 tonnes of farmed salmon in 1995, B.C. salmon farmers used fish meal produced from 118,000 tonnes of fish from the Pacific Ocean off South America, generating as much sewage as a city of 500,000 people.
In a typical salmon farm, roughly one-third of moist feed falls through the netpen to the
water column and sea bottom. Another 20 percent of the food becomes feces. Altogether,
as much as 1,080 tonnes of waste ore generated in producing 1,000 tonnes of fish.
Four years after the first salmon farms appeared in New Brunswick in 1979, farmed
salmon escapees accounted for 5.5 percent of the salmon in the Magaguadavic River. By
1995, farmed salmon made up 90 percent of the salmon in this river. (not BC but sweet jesus thats impressive)
In the summer of 1997, 300,000 Atlantic salmon escaped from several net pens in Puget
Sound, when the nets were torn during a move to avoid an algal bloom.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/278452.pdf
While scientific certainty is not absolute, European research does indicate that sea lice
abundance can be associated with salmon farming. Given this evidence, combined with
the presence of sea lice on Broughton Archipelago pink salmon smolts, and the fact the
decline in numbers was limited to Broughton Archipelago fish, the Council believes that
sea lice were associated with the decline observed in the Broughton Archipelago. Where
there is a risk of serious or irreversible harm the precautionary approach calls for action
based on the best evidence available. In this Broughton Archipelago case, the absence of
any evidence of some other cause, than sea lice, justifies action.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1602048/#bib30
Lice frequently infest farm salmon, and many studies have linked planktonic lice and lice parasitizing wild salmonids with the presence of farms (Tully & Whelan 1993; Costelloe et al. 1996, 1998a,b; Todd et al. 1997; Mackenzie et al. 1998; Tully et al. 1999; Bjørn et al. 2001; Bjørn & Finstad 2002; Marshall 2003; Morton & Williams 2004; Morton et al. 2004; McKibben & Hay 2004; Penston et al. 2004; Carr & Whoriskey 2004). Sympatric wild salmonid populations may then be affected: farms have been implicated in the infestation and collapse of pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) cohorts in Pacific Canada (PFRCC 2002; Morton & Williams 2004; Morton et al. 2004), wild sea trout (Salmo trutta) and Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) populations in Europe (McVicar 1997, 2004).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3012511/
Several studies have attempted to explain the impact of sea lice and salmon farming on pink salmon population decline, but these studies have been limited by lack of access to fish farm data (14–17). In one series of studies, juvenile pink salmon of unknown history were captured from the wild (2004–2007), separated by lice infestation status into field-based enclosures, and held for several weeks to assess differences in mortality (14, 18, 19). Results from these studies were used to support the conclusion that “recurrent louse infestations of wild juvenile pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha), all associated with salmon farms, have depressed wild pink salmon populations and placed them on a trajectory toward rapid local extinction” (3). However, the field mortality studies were not able to differentiate whether sea lice were the cause of mortality or whether sea lice had preferentially attached to fish that were destined to die from some other cause. To overcome this deficiency, other research exposed juvenile pink salmon of known history to Pacific forms of L. salmonis under controlled laboratory conditions (20); results were used to estimate that sea lice killed no more than 4.5% of juvenile pink salmon in any given year from 2005 to 2008 (21). Conclusions from these studies remain controversial, in part because they depend on experimental results from confined wild fish. Pink salmon sometimes adapt poorly to confinement (22) and change their behavior when exposed to sea lice (23); therefore, experimental results might overestimate or underestimate mortality among lice-infested fish in the wild. To overcome limitations inherent in using experimental studies to estimate population outcomes, we use a combination of approaches common in medical science and mathematical modeling to analyze actual farm data in relation to wild salmon information.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/courses/bio416/gross_cjfas_1998.pdf
http://www.math.ualberta.ca/~mlewis/Publications%202008/Krkosek_FishSci.pdf
http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/1320966463.pdf
though not directed at you robert. (honestly) I'm sure just about everyone who has contributed or read this thread has felt this same way.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/banx14/IMG_2548.jpg) (http://s116.photobucket.com/user/banx14/media/IMG_2548.jpg.html)
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you are correct, you have gotten under my skin.
I would think that is your own fault for letting me. I prefer to stay anonymous under the chance that we may know each other in real life. That could make it a bit awkward don't you think. :)
http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/Finfish/salt-water-fish/growing-market-size-salmon-on-land/
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I would think that is your own fault for letting me. :)
http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/Finfish/salt-water-fish/growing-market-size-salmon-on-land/
what can I say, when I visit a fishing forum I expect to discuss and share ideas with other fisher-people. not employees.
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To make it easy, this link may answer all your concerns of the studies you posted Banx. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/library/
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what's actually funny is you post verbatim off that site.
everyone of your posts on this thread, especially the last few have been straight from there. the links all match.
one sentence and a link..... ::)
why don't you take the time to read those articles and post the appropriate quotes or paragraphs. maybe summarize in your own words. or are you too busy working, you know, posting the same information on other sites? or are you too lazy to actually read them? ;)
since you edited a post after i replied.....with regards to you 'actually knowing me' it's unlikely. I also don't think it would be awkward. I'm friends with plenty of christians who think the earth is only 6000 years old. they can still be good people ;D..... like i'm sure your not a bad guy just because your money is in open pen farming.
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(http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/image_zpsnqls7esu.gif) (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/aquapaloosa/media/image_zpsnqls7esu.gif.html)
I agree with banx. I'm sure we all get along fine in real life.
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what can I say, when I visit a fishing forum I expect to discuss and share ideas with other fisher-people. not employees.
I expect the same Banx. Now we have something in common. I think it would be very interesting to see just what would happen if a sport fishing salmon farmer actually did come on here to discuss and share ideas. :)
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I wonder what we would find at the end of the sewer pipe leading from Chilliwack's treatment plant in the Fraser River?
It will be not good either, not sure how the treatment they have in place at the plant helps.
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I expect the same Banx. Now we have something in common. I think it would be very interesting to see just what would happen if a sport fishing salmon farmer actually did come on here to discuss and share ideas. :)
I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer. ::)
Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
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Welcome to FWR CK! I think you will find us a bit less confrontational than that other site, lol!
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I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer. ::)
Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
Please do, the PAP Gang are harmless. ;D
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Welcome to FWR CK! I think you will find us a bit less confrontational than that other site, lol!
Ah yes, you mean the one where I was banned by the "moderators" for a month for having a good old knock-down-drag-out battle with a prolific anonymous antagonist?
I've been watching this one for quite a while, just decided I'd pop in and use my account for the first time after seeing that last post...
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Ah yes, you mean the one where I was banned by the "moderators" for a month for having a good old knock-down-drag-out battle with a prolific anonymous antagonist?
I've been watching this one for quite a while, just decided I'd pop in and use my account for the first time after seeing that last post...
Yeah, that one ;) I'm surprised I wasn't banned for dissing the anonymous antagonist as well. Welcome aboard; I think even the anti's on here will appreciate your knowledge of salmon farming in BC.
They will definitely learn a lot but a few (but certainly not all if you research back a few pages) have their minds made up and nothing short of Almo going to work in the PR department for Marine Harvest will change their minds ::)
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I'm a sport-fishing salmon farmer. ::)
Not sure I'm ready to dive in yet though.
Welcome CK. I am sure your hands on experience will add to the discussion and shared ideas. :)
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11526417
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Well I messed this post up a bit. Howerever can you explain to me where I said I "actually" know you Banx? I sure would like to clear this one up. :) atm it seems that you have turned a shared thought into a fact.
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Yes, nice stuff on the ocean bottom under the pens. ::) https://youtu.be/4QKwEsaACsk
The goo in this old video of organic waste looks a lot like the stuff Chilliwack farmers spread by the ton on local fields to fertilize the crops we all eat, ie broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts and the crop you sell in summer months Chris, genetically modified corn ;D
I suggest what is sprayed on our fields, locally and in other agricultural areas, contains far more left over antibiotics, pesticides (from bovine, avian and porcine diets), and other pharmaceuticals including growth hormones, than all the salmon farms combined in BC waters. And yet the general public is fine with this practice ::)
If I am wrong someone please educate me.
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Wille Mitchell is an avid fisherman and like me, wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. Kuterra farm is a great idea,takes the pressure off wild fish in a sustainable manner .But clearly your inference that the run of river project is paying for the fish farm ?????
Surely the capital cost is paid off over years of the profits from the product.
Well, it seems like making inferences and assumptions is kind of becoming a game here so I thought I would join in the fun.
The inference made by fish farm critics is that those that do not subscribe to their views on this must have financial interests in the BC fish farm industry and/or do not love wild salmon. Kind of a lame argument. Like Willie Mitchell, I am also is an avid fisherman who wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. The difference is that I do not buy into these theories and correlations that apparently prove devastation by fish farms here in BC. Now Willie can skate the pants off of me on the ice and fire the puck much harder than I could ever do; however, with this issue feel very comfortable expressing my opinions and backing them up….and I have never spent one day working for the BC aquaculture industry.
My main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they bring up which apparently prove that salmon farming how it is done now in BC is devastating wild salmon. For instance, let’s take the most prolific correlation fish farm opponents use which apparently show that Fraser Sockeye productivity started to decline as salmon farming in BC became more prominent after the early 90s. Well, if that’s the case then another correlation could be made to show that since the Alaskan Salmon hatchery program (i.e. salmon ranching) began to increase even more in the early 90s Fraser Sockeye productivity began to decrease throughout the 90s and the last decade. Instead, the billions of ranched salmon released annually by multiple countries in the North Pacific are viewed as a great example by many anti-fish farm activists as a shining example of good fisheries management. When Fraser Sockeye returns do not come in at the forecasted 50p level the fingers automatically get pointed at fish farming, but when returns are average or above then it is called an anomaly. It’s just not sea lice, but the way many fish farm critics talk about viruses and diseases - most of it is either exaggerated or not based on facts.
Lastly, in my opinion, many fish farm critics have a severe lack of knowledge of the wild salmon they profess to want to save. To me that would be sort of important. If people like Alexandra Morton, Don Staniford, D.C. Reid, Bob Chamberlain, and David Suzuki are going to start professing a love for Fraser Sockeye then they should start understanding some biology about them first. For instance, a photo of a “Chinook Salmon” got posted on the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page. The poster not only called it a Chinook Salmon, but blamed the external wounds on the fish on salmon farms (surprise surprise). Well, as it was correctly pointed out, the fish was actually a Sockeye and those wounds on the carcass were likely the result of a predator. One would think that those dedicated to wild salmon would welcome this rather obvious correction and embrace fair comment, but instead the post was deleted. This leads me to my last criticism of fish farm opponents: They accused the last Federal government of muzzling scientists, but they seem to be also muzzling the message themselves. So much for transparency when they do not practice it themselves.
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The goo in this old video of organic waste looks a lot like the stuff Chilliwack farmers spread by the ton on local fields to fertilize the crops we all eat, ie broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts and the crop you sell in summer months Chris, genetically modified corn ;D
I suggest what is sprayed on our fields, locally and in other agricultural areas, contains far more left over antibiotics, pesticides (from bovine, avian and porcine diets), and other pharmaceuticals including growth hormones, than all the salmon farms combined in BC waters. And yet the general public is fine with this practice ::)
If I am wrong someone please educate me.
The difference being that manure that is spread is allowed to decompose and it would benefit the plants that are grown in it.
The effluent under the farms is in effect waste left there ,in the hopes of the farm to rot or dissipate, why would anyone want this to be left behind.
It seems ridiculous that we have strict rules about' leave no trace 'camping,hiking, backcountry recreation,yet we let these multinational companies leave this muck behind by the tonne !
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Great post Banx.
Some great info there about sea lice and its effect on salmon in general,farmed and wild.
I especially think the info on juvenile salmon is most important .
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[quote author=banx link=topic=32635.m
since you edited a post after i replied.....with regards to you 'actually knowing me' it's unlikely.
Well I messed this post up a bit. Howerever can you explain to me where I said I "actually" know you Banx? I sure would like to clear this one up. :) atm it seems that you have turned a shared thought into a fact.
you said, what if you knew me....I said I don't actually think you do. and that it wouldn't be awkward. I probably could have worded it better and dropped the quotations around actually.
Well, it seems like making inferences and assumptions is kind of becoming a game here so I thought I would join in the fun.
The inference made by fish farm critics is that those that do not subscribe to their views on this must have financial interests in the BC fish farm industry and/or do not love wild salmon. Kind of a lame argument. Like Willie Mitchell, I am also is an avid fisherman who wants to see the environment protected so that the wild stocks have a chance to live on for generations. The difference is that I do not buy into these theories and correlations that apparently prove devastation by fish farms here in BC. Now Willie can skate the pants off of me on the ice and fire the puck much harder than I could ever do; however, with this issue feel very comfortable expressing my opinions and backing them up….and I have never spent one day working for the BC aquaculture industry.
My main criticism with opponents of fish farms is not their desire to have closed containment a reality; instead it is these theories and correlations they bring up which apparently prove that salmon farming how it is done now in BC is devastating wild salmon. For instance, let’s take the most prolific correlation fish farm opponents use which apparently show that Fraser Sockeye productivity started to decline as salmon farming in BC became more prominent after the early 90s. Well, if that’s the case then another correlation could be made to show that since the Alaskan Salmon hatchery program (i.e. salmon ranching) began to increase even more in the early 90s Fraser Sockeye productivity began to decrease throughout the 90s and the last decade. Instead, the billions of ranched salmon released annually by multiple countries in the North Pacific are viewed as a great example by many anti-fish farm activists as a shining example of good fisheries management. When Fraser Sockeye returns do not come in at the forecasted 50p level the fingers automatically get pointed at fish farming, but when returns are average or above then it is called an anomaly. It’s just not sea lice, but the way many fish farm critics talk about viruses and diseases - most of it is either exaggerated or not based on facts.
Lastly, in my opinion, many fish farm critics have a severe lack of knowledge of the wild salmon they profess to want to save. To me that would be sort of important. If people like Alexandra Morton, Don Staniford, D.C. Reid, Bob Chamberlain, and David Suzuki are going to start professing a love for Fraser Sockeye then they should start understanding some biology about them first. For instance, a photo of a “Chinook Salmon” got posted on the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page. The poster not only called it a Chinook Salmon, but blamed the external wounds on the fish on salmon farms (surprise surprise). Well, as it was correctly pointed out, the fish was actually a Sockeye and those wounds on the carcass were likely the result of a predator. One would think that those dedicated to wild salmon would welcome this rather obvious correction and embrace fair comment, but instead the post was deleted. This leads me to my last criticism of fish farm opponents: They accused the last Federal government of muzzling scientists, but they seem to be also muzzling the message themselves. So much for transparency when they do not practice it themselves.
well sir, you are correct on most points again. as for "not caring about wild salmon" I was just being a dick to bob.... (my apologies) the fact that BC farms are heavily regulated, monitored and likely have a ton of employees who care is great. it is.
I think there is an inherent difference between devastating, and just a bad idea...... also money allows people to do things they might not generally agree with.
Like we discussed earlier, there's a ton of stuff out there that is effecting salmon returns a lot more than farms. lots more. But they are generally things that we can't really control. Heavy industrialization, loss of habitat, ocean conditions, etc. Eventually, these things gotta come out of the water. they do, and they should. I don't think the gamble is worth it. like, is the juice worth the squeeze?
your also right (damnit ;) ) about the knowledge part, maybe they should read the cohen report. i'm sure suzuki could bust it off on a few of his chartered flights to the climate change conferences he goes to.
I don't know how you mistake a chinook with a sockeye. maybe chinook and coho. but that's pretty bad.
Great post Banx.
Some great info there about sea lice and its effect on salmon in general,farmed and wild.
I especially think the info on juvenile salmon is most important .
thanks.
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Thank you for clearing that up Banx. I appreciate that. :)
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First Nations and Aquaculture. There are some very interesting comments all the way through this video.
http://youtu.be/6X6xcqu09jk
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The goo in this old video of organic waste looks a lot like the stuff Chilliwack farmers spread by the ton on local fields to fertilize the crops we all eat, ie broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts and the crop you sell in summer months Chris, genetically modified corn ;D
I suggest what is sprayed on our fields, locally and in other agricultural areas, contains far more left over antibiotics, pesticides (from bovine, avian and porcine diets), and other pharmaceuticals including growth hormones, than all the salmon farms combined in BC waters. And yet the general public is fine with this practice ::)
If I am wrong someone please educate me.
Non GMO corn my boy. ;D
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http://www.salmonguy.org/?p=4458
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/bc-salmon-farming_b_8695522.html
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I would take it more seriously if they included the Atlantic farms in Washington. But then we all know where the big hype US funding comes from.
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I would take it more seriously if they included the Atlantic farms in Washington. But then we all know where the big hype US funding comes from.
No need to keep repeating this as we have heard it from you so many times, old news as Dave says. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/bc-salmon-farming_b_8695522.html
Another exaggerated piece of journalism with little fact and context. So much to hammer away on in this article. Most notably is about this "subsidy". I am not sure how BC salmon farmers are getting a subsidy for being order to destroy diseased farmed salmon. Obviously Jeff Matthews doesn't know what he is talking about and spouts off this ignorance to others. How do fish farmers make money on fish that are not market size? The answer is simple - they don't. This "subsidy" is what is paid to other agricultural sectors when they are forced to destroy their livestock due to disease. It's the law and it is meant to encourage those in the agricultural sector to comply. What Matthews fails to mention is that this compensation is only paid out when the CFIA orders that the livestock be destroyed. He didn't mention the fact that when BC fish farms on the WCVI proactively destroyed their farmed salmon a few years back due to an IHN outbreak they received no compensation. This is a good example why I don't support these activists. It is clear what the facts are, but they choose to ignore them. They are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.
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No need to keep repeating this as we have heard it from you so many times, old news as Dave says. ;D ;D ;D
And yet you and Almo never, ever, mention the salmon farms in Puget Sound ... I can easily understand why American born Morton and heir to the Hubbard fortune won't and doesn't, but why not you, Eddie, and the other anti's? Why are their farms exempt from your criticism? What are their farms doing that is better than BC's to make you believe they are OK?
Some answers please, no deflections.
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And yet you and Almo never, ever, mention the salmon farms in Puget Sound ... I can easily understand why American born Morton and heir to the Hubbard fortune won't and doesn't, but why not you, Eddie, and the other anti's? Why are their farms exempt from your criticism? What are their farms doing that is better than BC's to make you believe they are OK?
Some answers please, no deflections.
Because activists are too busy with things on this side of the border. If only they had more time, money and bodies they would be willing to take on things like salmon farms in Puget Sound and ranched salmon in Alaska. Seeing as though activists in BC are getting verbal support from US senators and congress people on this it is probably best not to stir the pot south of the border, Dave. The US is on the verge of expanding on its on aquaculture production so it wouldn't be good business to rock the boat there and put them in an awkward position, looking like hypocrites.
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Because activists are too busy with things on this side of the border. If only they had more time, money and bodies they would be willing to take on things like salmon farms in Puget Sound and ranched salmon in Alaska. Seeing as though activists in BC are getting verbal support from US senators and congress people on this it is probably best not to stir the pot south of the border, Dave. The US is on the verge of expanding on its on aquaculture production so it wouldn't be good business to rock the boat there and put them in an awkward position, looking like hypocrites.
Sounds more like your getting your "feelings" off your chest. Because that made absolutely no sense at all. Senators and congress pfft wtf. But it is good to get things off your chest so you can move on. Maybe people are against open pen salmon farming and not aquaculture. Please spare yourself one of your long winded answers.
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So tell me Chris, why are those american foundations happy to fund anti salmon farm propaganda in Canada but not in the US? If they cared about wild salmon so much they would be funding the same crap against the salmon farmers in their own country. Just a marketing tactic on a sinking ship. The articles are sounding sillier each time. :)
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Sounds more like your getting your "feelings" off your chest. Because that made absolutely no sense at all. Senators and congress pfft wtf. But it is good to get things off your chest so you can move on. Maybe people are against open pen salmon farming and not aquaculture. Please spare yourself one of your long winded answers.
Not surprised this makes no sense to you, but then again it is not my fault you are out to lunch with this. Ahhhh...that felt good getting that off my chest..lol. Thanks.
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Some answers please, no deflections.
Never want to spread one too thin, one battle at a time. ;D ;D ;D
Also, if I and a couple of others did not post info this thread would die, of course that would give you more time to works on rods and the other PAP gang able to spend more time at their jobs. ;D
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About what I expected.
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About what I expected.
You are welcome, did not want to disappoint you, get back to work. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/bc-salmon-farming_b_8695522.html
One of the most damning articles against fish farms that I have seen.
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One of the most damning articles against fish farms that I have seen.
I have to agree with you. Classic example of how to get misinformed people to hit that donate button. :)
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This is worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL9Qf3NSxmg&feature=youtu.be
Dr. Richard Beamish talks about "What we know, what we don't know, and what we need to know."
He even gets a Feynman quote in there...
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That was a magnificent first "post of importance", CK ;) I suspect many won't put in the time to watch this in it's entirety and that's a shame because Beamish is a brilliant scientist; arrogant as hell but very, very few had the balls to debate him. His comments on the future of aquaculture in BC begin around the 50th minute.
I had some brief correspondence with this guy; as mentioned in the lecture he had a passion for lamprey's and their relationship with salmon. I worked in the Fraser Canyon sampling sockeye and often encountered upstream migrating lampreys ... I reported my observations to him and all of a sudden I was on a first name basis with a future Order of Canada recipient. Needless to say a confidence booster for a lowly technician :)
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that was good, after that into i expected at least a little lazer light show, maybe some fog.... he needed a glass of water though, poor guy.... what i got from it was the science is solid and there's lots we don't know.
ocean acidification is legit. also, the question at the end was good and the answer just as good.
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http://www.livingoceans.org/media/news/salmon-farms-out-control
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That was a magnificent first "post of importance", CK ;) I suspect many won't put in the time to watch this in it's entirety and that's a shame because Beamish is a brilliant scientist; arrogant as hell but very, very few had the balls to debate him. His comments on the future of aquaculture in BC begin around the 50th minute.
I had some brief correspondence with this guy; as mentioned in the lecture he had a passion for lamprey's and their relationship with salmon. I worked in the Fraser Canyon sampling sockeye and often encountered upstream migrating lampreys ... I reported my observations to him and all of a sudden I was on a first name basis with a future Order of Canada recipient. Needless to say a confidence booster for a lowly technician :)
I would not call you a lowly technican as would those that read your posts regarding FF. ;D
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/11/30/enviro-group-shows-its-hypocritical-anti-science-side/
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2015/02/11/oregon-lake-no-longer-stocking-atlantic-salmon/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/04/18/landmark-collaborative-sea-lice-study-published/
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/10/12/sea-lice-studies-in-2011/
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Found this old post interesting that was posted by Ian and Dave.
Quote from: Dave on June 21, 2014, 03:00:39 PM
"Glad to see you have an open mind Ian. What damage have you seen done to sensitive areas that is directly related to salmon farms?"
"Near a fish farm outside the mouth of the Mahatta River, a well known summer steelhead river, it is now a dead zone when previously it was teaming with life. And, after fishing the river several times I did not see anywhere close to the numbers of steelhead I have seen in the past.
Talking with a fisheries officer who did studies before and after a fish farm went into operation near Nootka Island, he told me there were drastic changes. Before the fish farm, a simple beach seine would show all 6 species of salmonids, as well as bottom fish of many species. There were even little seahorses and countless sea perch and sculpins. The area was very rich in sea life of all sorts. A year after the fish farm went into operation the area was almost a complete dead zone and only a few fish species were captured in several beach seines in the exact same location.
My only conclusion, from a layman's long term study, is if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then chances are that it is a duck."
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The guy lost me at sea horse. If we have sea horses on this coast I have yet to see one. I think the guy is stretching the truth a lot.
6 species of salmon? umm.... How about 5. I,m not even sure there are any pinks out of Nootka.
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So tell me Chris, why are those american foundations happy to fund anti salmon farm propaganda in Canada but not in the US? If they cared about wild salmon so much they would be funding the same crap against the salmon farmers in their own country. Just a marketing tactic on a sinking ship. The articles are sounding sillier each time. :)
Is it possible that we are the precursor to what will happen in the US,puget sound maybe.
Possibly they are watching us to see what is happening and want to stop before it spreads south,just like a large tide of sea lice and effluent .
Besides that you are suggesting a conspiracy,not sure what it could be and besides why would we care as long as we receive support,financial or in belief.
We can see the damage and so can they, we want to stop it or minimize damage to our environment ,how can you not be behind sustainability for everyones future ?
Why should we be steamrolled by these few big multinationals for there financial gain at the expense of our environment., because we are being affable Canadians ?
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Is it possible that we are the precursor to what will happen in the US,puget sound maybe.
Possibly they are watching us to see what is happening and want to stop before it spreads south,just like a large tide of sea lice and effluent .
Besides that you are suggesting a conspiracy,not sure what it could be and besides why would we care as long as we receive support,financial or in belief.
We can see the damage and so can they, we want to stop it or minimize damage to our environment ,how can you not be behind sustainability for everyones future ?
Why should we be steamrolled by these few big multinationals for there financial gain at the expense of our environment., because we are being affable Canadians ?
When you look at the timeline when Atlantic Salmon were introduced to the Pacific Northwest, why would BC necessarily be thought of a precursor to what will happen in the US, specifically the Puget Sound. Look at the facts. In 1972, the first Atlantic Salmon farm on the Pacific Coast was established in Puget Sound. Look at the history of Atlantic Salmon introductions. In 1904, Atlantic Salmon was first brought to Washington State to start an ocean sport fishery. Besides that, explain to me how net pen aquaculture of Atlantic Salmon in the Puget Sound area is that different in order for BC to be considered a “precursor”? Possibly watching for what – to see if a large tide of sea lice and effluent is going to head south? So open net pen fish farms in Puget Sound do not have sea lice or effluent and this is basically a made-in-BC thing that threatens to move south like some large tide?
It’s kind of ironic hearing a fish farm critic accuse someone else on the opposite side of the debate for suggesting a conspiracy. Farm critics are full of some bizarre theories – like large tides of sea lice and effluent spreading south from BC.
Why would we care as long as long as we receive support, financial or in belief?? That statement suggests to me that you are willing to turn a blind eye to other similar operations south of the border (and any hypocrisy) so that money and verbal support continues to flow into BC from these foundations. As long as farm critics leading the struggle here are getting their money that’s all that matters (Yep..I said that…lol). Sort of the “ends justifies the means.” Nice.
So, “we” can see this damage and so can they (I guess you are talking about these US foundations) and “we” want to stop it or minimize the damage to our environment, but somehow farmed Atlantic Salmon in open net pens in Puget Sound or even ranched salmon in Alaska should not raise any concern at this time? What is this damage we and even they are seeing? If they can see this happening then why wouldn’t they take similar action south of the border unless you are attempting to tell me that this "damage" south of the border doesn’t exist yet – only in BC? Oh, that’s right, the tide of sea lice and effluent hasn’t quite happened yet, but it’s probably going to happen anytime soon.
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When you look at the timeline when Atlantic Salmon were introduced to the Pacific Northwest, why would BC necessarily be thought of a precursor to what will happen in the US, specifically the Puget Sound. Look at the facts. In 1972, the first Atlantic Salmon farm on the Pacific Coast was established in Puget Sound. Look at the history of Atlantic Salmon introductions. In 1904, Atlantic Salmon was first brought to Washington State to start an ocean sport fishery. Besides that, explain to me how net pen aquaculture of Atlantic Salmon in the Puget Sound area is that different in order for BC to be considered a “precursor”? Possibly watching for what – to see if a large tide of sea lice and effluent is going to head south? So open net pen fish farms in Puget Sound do not have sea lice or effluent and this is basically a made-in-BC thing that threatens to move south like some large tide?
It’s kind of ironic hearing a fish farm critic accuse someone else on the opposite side of the debate for suggesting a conspiracy. Farm critics are full of some bizarre theories – like large tides of sea lice and effluent spreading south from BC.
Why would we care as long as long as we receive support, financial or in belief?? That statement suggests to me that you are willing to turn a blind eye to other similar operations south of the border (and any hypocrisy) so that money and verbal support continues to flow into BC from these foundations. As long as farm critics leading the struggle here are getting their money that’s all that matters (Yep..I said that…lol). Sort of the “ends justifies the means.” Nice.
So, “we” can see this damage and so can they (I guess you are talking about these US foundations) and “we” want to stop it or minimize the damage to our environment, but somehow farmed Atlantic Salmon in open net pens in Puget Sound or even ranched salmon in Alaska should not raise any concern at this time? What is this damage we and even they are seeing? If they can see this happening then why wouldn’t they take similar action south of the border unless you are attempting to tell me that this "damage" south of the border doesn’t exist yet – only in BC? Oh, that’s right, the tide of sea lice and effluent hasn’t quite happened yet, but it’s probably going to happen anytime soon.
BC would be considered a precursor based on number of farms not timeline, currently Puget sound has 8 open net pen farms vs BC's 130.
Based on this Puget Sound could look to BC to see how BC's industry evolves,much like we look to Norway and Chile with concern about the state of their Farm industry
The term sea lice and effluent was a metaphoric term, not to be taken literally .
Funding from elsewhere with people holding similar beliefs in protecting the environment,why would anyone turn their backs on support.Their is no conspiracy here,its true that we export farmed salmon to the US, which would be the biggest customer .The foundations spoken of simply have the same beliefs in environmental causes.To suggest that they are in some way linked to a lobby for more US farmed fish is a stretch.
The damage south of the border does exist based on the virus outbreak in 2012.
"In 2012, there was an outbreak of infectious hemotopoietic necrosis virus, or IHNV, in three of the farms – the Orchard Rocks, Fort Ward and Clam Bay facilities" all in Puget Sound."While the virus likely arose from wild salmon, the high densities in the net pens artificially elevated the outbreak. "
The problems do exist down south, yet they are on a smaller scale, because they have a smaller operations.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/nov/04/group-sues-to-stop-commercial-salmon-farms-in-puge/
We have larger operations and larger problems in BC .
For now I will focus on BC cause that's where I live, and any support I get from people down south will be appreciated.
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That was a magnificent first "post of importance", CK ;) I suspect many won't put in the time to watch this in it's entirety and that's a shame because Beamish is a brilliant scientist; arrogant as hell but very, very few had the balls to debate him. His comments on the future of aquaculture in BC begin around the 50th minute.
I had some brief correspondence with this guy; as mentioned in the lecture he had a passion for lamprey's and their relationship with salmon. I worked in the Fraser Canyon sampling sockeye and often encountered upstream migrating lampreys ... I reported my observations to him and all of a sudden I was on a first name basis with a future Order of Canada recipient. Needless to say a confidence booster for a lowly technician :)
Thanks Dave, I figured it was worthy - especially considering (and I'm 99% sure here) that it was Morton who at around 1:15 attempted to defend her and Krkosek's paper about the presumed extinction of Pinks by claiming salmon farms changed their sea lice management program in such a dramatic way that not only did some runs not go extinct, they increased 10x.
"Unfair", I think was the term she used to describe how he laid out where reality (as seen through empirical evidence) had summarily destroyed their hypothesis.
Actually, after consideration, I am bumping that 99% to 100% surety it was Morton - reflecting on all the tiptoeing Beamish did around aquaculture and validating the paper in question being published - she must have been front and center.
If my memory serves me right she certainly didn't give him much respect during the Cohen Commission...
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BC would be considered a precursor based on number of farms not timeline, currently Puget sound has 8 open net pen farms vs BC's 130.
Based on this Puget Sound could look to BC to see how BC's industry evolves,much like we look to Norway and Chile with concern about the state of their Farm industry
The term sea lice and effluent was a metaphoric term, not to be taken literally .
Funding from elsewhere with people holding similar beliefs in protecting the environment,why would anyone turn their backs on support.Their is no conspiracy here,its true that we export farmed salmon to the US, which would be the biggest customer .The foundations spoken of simply have the same beliefs in environmental causes.To suggest that they are in some way linked to a lobby for more US farmed fish is a stretch.
The damage south of the border does exist based on the virus outbreak in 2012.
"In 2012, there was an outbreak of infectious hemotopoietic necrosis virus, or IHNV, in three of the farms – the Orchard Rocks, Fort Ward and Clam Bay facilities" all in Puget Sound."While the virus likely arose from wild salmon, the high densities in the net pens artificially elevated the outbreak. "
The problems do exist down south, yet they are on a smaller scale, because they have a smaller operations.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/nov/04/group-sues-to-stop-commercial-salmon-farms-in-puge/
We have larger operations and larger problems in BC .
For now I will focus on BC cause that's where I live, and any support I get from people down south will be appreciated.
Here's some info on BC farms: http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/
Here's a map of all the operating farms over the last few years: http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/all_companies_2014-07_out_migration_sites1.pdf
Not all the tenures are in use, so the number is less than the 130 you quoted.
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Here's some info on BC farms: http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/
Here's a map of all the operating farms over the last few years: http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/all_companies_2014-07_out_migration_sites1.pdf
Not all the tenures are in use, so the number is less than the 130 you quoted.
Thanks CK,
Some good info there including the locations and number of sites which number to 98 based on the pdf file.
Creative Salmon is front and center on there, they are organic and have a good record environmentally,glad they leading the way,even though they only have 1 farm.
I understand that some farms sites are rotated as well .Good to know ,that explains the empty tenures I assume,being left to recover.
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BC would be considered a precursor based on number of farms not timeline, currently Puget sound has 8 open net pen farms vs BC's 130.
Based on this Puget Sound could look to BC to see how BC's industry evolves,much like we look to Norway and Chile with concern about the state of their Farm industry
The term sea lice and effluent was a metaphoric term, not to be taken literally .
Funding from elsewhere with people holding similar beliefs in protecting the environment,why would anyone turn their backs on support.Their is no conspiracy here,its true that we export farmed salmon to the US, which would be the biggest customer .The foundations spoken of simply have the same beliefs in environmental causes.To suggest that they are in some way linked to a lobby for more US farmed fish is a stretch.
The damage south of the border does exist based on the virus outbreak in 2012.
"In 2012, there was an outbreak of infectious hemotopoietic necrosis virus, or IHNV, in three of the farms – the Orchard Rocks, Fort Ward and Clam Bay facilities" all in Puget Sound."While the virus likely arose from wild salmon, the high densities in the net pens artificially elevated the outbreak. "
The problems do exist down south, yet they are on a smaller scale, because they have a smaller operations.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/nov/04/group-sues-to-stop-commercial-salmon-farms-in-puge/
We have larger operations and larger problems in BC .
For now I will focus on BC cause that's where I live, and any support I get from people down south will be appreciated.
Thanks for CK for correctly explaining that not all farms sites are in operation at the same time. So it doesn’t necessarily matter that the farms in Puget Sound are open net pens raising Atlantic Salmon similar to what is in BC, that fish farm critics are highly critical of……..it matters more that there is more of them now here (which you are not sure what the number is)? So are you suggesting that as long as they keep them at a low number like 8 then it should be given a pass by environmentalists and these US foundations? There are environmentalists in BC that not only disagree with ocean net pen aquaculture, but those same environmentalists also disagree with the massive numbers of ranched salmon being released in Alaska annually, but these same foundations do not seem to have it on their radar. In turn, these Alaskan “wild” salmon get a clean bill of health from SeaChoice. Doesn’t it make you wonder a bit why so much of their focus is here when there are clearly skeletons in the closet south of the border? In my opinion, the reasons for this deflection away from operations south of the border (and north of our border) are lame and highly hypocritical especially if wild salmon are being held in such high regard.
I do not necessarily believe it is a good idea to say that Puget Sound can look at BC to see how the BC industry evolves much like we look towards Chile and Norway; 1) Because Atlantic salmon farming started in Puget Sound and Atlantic Salmon introductions in Washington State have as long or longer history than in BC; 2) Although there can be concerns with what goes in other countries like Chile and Norway it becomes a bit of a false crutch for environmentalists because having issues somewhere else doesn’t necessarily translate to problems here unless you can actually demonstrate it (i.e. ISA and HSMI for instance); and 3) the regulatory environments between BC and other places like Chile and Norway are not comparable. Larger problems here? What are these larger problems, Rook? I will refer you to the Cohen Report where Cohen not just talks about potential risks of factors like aquaculture, but also says there is no evidence that diseases and viruses are out of control on BC fish farms either. He also points to other factors also and not all his recommendations pertain to aquaculture. Can you point to a part in the Cohen Report where it is stated that we have much larger problems than in Washington State and what these large problems are? How do you know that issues down in Washington State are not on a smaller scale or are you just speculating based purely on the number of farms? So if BC had less fish farms then you would be ok with ocean net pen aquaculture here? As you can see I have a lot of questions for you.
The term sea lice and effluent was a metaphoric term, not to be taken literally? Ok, I’m glad that has been taken off the table because it is best to stay away those bizarre theories and leave it up to those on the Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page.
Before you start down the IHNv/IHN path you should keep in mind the pathology of IHNv and its distribution. This is what your source (again an opinion article with no reference for that assertion) is sorely lacking. Adult Pacific Salmon like Sockeye are natural carriers of IHNv. Although, juvenile salmonids are the most prone stage to IHNv they have evolved with this endemic virus for centuries off our coast from Alaska to California. On the other hand, Atlantic Salmon have not developed similar immunity to IHNv. Considering that fish farmers are on guard for this high risk, endemic virus (which can wipe out the fish in their pens) through routine testing it is not in their best interests to have this virus around and have the resulting disease proliferate throughout the farm and adjacent farms. As I stated before, farmed fish that are destroyed before they become market size are a financial loss – not a subsidy bonanza as incorrectly stated by Jeff Matthews. Not exactly sure what these Puget Sound farms did at the time, but in BC (and CK can confirm for you or correct me) the industry has become much more proactive in this regard since outbreaks in 2003. Once farms here have a suspected case of IHNv they will destroy those fish instead of waiting for a confirmation test from the CFIA which could take more than a week. This is what happened in 2012 on Mainstream’s Dixon Bay farms. While waiting for results of a confirmation test, the virus could potentially spread to other farm operations in the area – causing more fish to be destroyed. Can you show me some scientific documentation where these “high” densities in net pens artificially elevate the IHN outbreak?
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The number of farms in BC based on salmonfarmers pdf file , if you care to read it, is from my count = 98 .
The link is there and it's not 30 pages long ,its on the first page and the info is from 2014.
The fact that Puget sound has only 8 ,conversely you would think they would have less problems based on scale ,8 vs 98.
Agree that 'thank god' we have a stricter regulatory environment here rather than Chile or Norway .
Not sure that we see all the issues,Sea lice,disease outbreak,etc that come out , this was another argument about govt scientists being muzzled .
Hoping the new govt can be more transparent about this .
As for problems down south, they did have an outbreak in 2012, reported facts in the newspaper article .
Maybe we had an outbreak and it was never reported?swept under the proverbial pen ,(sorry my favourite joke)
Sorry not gonna quote Cohen report or some facebook page ,don't think it has information that it conclusive, you keep quoting these, likely exactly for this reason.
Like the creative salmon model and kuterra, however I do understand it's probably more expensive.But we are talking about our precious environment that once gone is gone !It wont be suitable for farming either if its too polluted.
The Alaska salmon ranching is similar to the hatchery system in BC .The fact also that it puts the fish back in the hands of the fisherman, not a large multinational .
"Can you show me some scientific documentation where these “high” densities in net pens artificially elevate the IHN outbreak?"
Don't have the scientific study in hand I will rely on you to point these out,you can google them .Its pretty clear that this concentration elevates the risk of disease transmission .
Heres one
http://www.thefishsite.com/diseaseinfo/4/infectious-haematopoietic-necrosis-ihn/
Some good info actually stating that these diseases are hardest on fry,including the wild fish migrating through these affected areas at the time of an outbreak.
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The number of farms in BC based on salmonfarmers pdf file , if you care to read it, is from my count = 98 .
The link is there and it's not 30 pages long ,its on the first page and the info is from 2014.
The fact that Puget sound has only 8 ,conversely you would think they would have less problems based on scale ,8 vs 98.
Agree that 'thank god' we have a stricter regulatory environment here rather than Chile or Norway .
Not sure that we see all the issues,Sea lice,disease outbreak,etc that come out , this was another argument about govt scientists being muzzled .
Hoping the new govt can be more transparent about this .
As for problems down south, they did have an outbreak in 2012, reported facts in the newspaper article .
Maybe we had an outbreak and it was never reported?swept under the proverbial pen ,(sorry my favourite joke)
Sorry not gonna quote Cohen report or some facebook page ,don't think it has information that it conclusive, you keep quoting these, likely exactly for this reason.
Like the creative salmon model and kuterra, however I do understand it's probably more expensive.But we are talking about our precious environment that once gone is gone !It wont be suitable for farming either if its too polluted.
The Alaska salmon ranching is similar to the hatchery system in BC .The fact also that it puts the fish back in the hands of the fisherman, not a large multinational .
"Can you show me some scientific documentation where these “high” densities in net pens artificially elevate the IHN outbreak?"
Don't have the scientific study in hand I will rely on you to point these out,you can google them .Its pretty clear that this concentration elevates the risk of disease transmission .
Heres one
http://www.thefishsite.com/diseaseinfo/4/infectious-haematopoietic-necrosis-ihn/
Some good info actually stating that these diseases are hardest on fry,including the wild fish migrating through these affected areas at the time of an outbreak.
First off. It looks more like Creative Salmon has 6 sites with 4 operating. Your link was very interesting, suggesting that IHN was introduced to Japan in the 60's by eggs from "Alaska" and has been around or should I say, "identified" since the 50's.
If the American funded activists in Canada cared so much about our wild salmon they would have included the US Atlantic farmed salmon in their campaign years ago. The 2012 outbreak off IHN in Washington happened at peak emigration. Those salmon pass through our Canadian waters. Talking about hiding information under the pen LOL.
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The number of farms in BC based on salmonfarmers pdf file , if you care to read it, is from my count = 98 .
The link is there and it's not 30 pages long ,its on the first page and the info is from 2014.
The fact that Puget sound has only 8 ,conversely you would think they would have less problems based on scale ,8 vs 98.
Agree that 'thank god' we have a stricter regulatory environment here rather than Chile or Norway .
Not sure that we see all the issues,Sea lice,disease outbreak,etc that come out , this was another argument about govt scientists being muzzled .
Hoping the new govt can be more transparent about this .
As for problems down south, they did have an outbreak in 2012, reported facts in the newspaper article .
Maybe we had an outbreak and it was never reported?swept under the proverbial pen ,(sorry my favourite joke)
Sorry not gonna quote Cohen report or some facebook page ,don't think it has information that it conclusive, you keep quoting these, likely exactly for this reason.
Like the creative salmon model and kuterra, however I do understand it's probably more expensive.But we are talking about our precious environment that once gone is gone !It wont be suitable for farming either if its too polluted.
The Alaska salmon ranching is similar to the hatchery system in BC .The fact also that it puts the fish back in the hands of the fisherman, not a large multinational .
"Can you show me some scientific documentation where these “high” densities in net pens artificially elevate the IHN outbreak?"
Don't have the scientific study in hand I will rely on you to point these out,you can google them .Its pretty clear that this concentration elevates the risk of disease transmission .
Heres one
http://www.thefishsite.com/diseaseinfo/4/infectious-haematopoietic-necrosis-ihn/
Some good info actually stating that these diseases are hardest on fry,including the wild fish migrating through these affected areas at the time of an outbreak.
Public reporting of BC salmon aquaculture data is actually second to none when it comes to animal husbandry.
Fish health, sea lice, escapes, and other key information is either available through DFO, the BC Salmon Farmer's Association, or the companies themselves.
In today's regulatory and social license environment nothing gets, "swept under the proverbial pen" - so I hope we can put that one to rest.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/index-eng.html
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/press-room/public+reporting
As for IHN, it is correct that Cermaq pre-emptively culled a farm upon receiving internal confirmation that IHN was present - that is, the farm was culled prior to getting an order from the CFIA to do so, at management's discretion, in order to enact timely and effective controls on the outbreak.
In the past salmon aquaculture companies had not been as successful in managing viral issues, as can be seen here: http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1320968207.pdf
On the topic of disease transmission, Atlantic salmon are most certainly naïve to IHNv, although they can now be vaccinated against it.
A wild population hosting the virus will have developed resistance to it throughout their life cycle - most Sockeye will have been exposed to many pathogens in the freshwater environment while they co-exist with the dead and dying year-class entering the river they have not yet left...
From what we can tell, a wild population passing a farm has the potential to infect cultured fish if they are carriers - the virus will then spread throughout the population within the farm due to the relative proximity of fish in the area, and their potential lack of resistance.
The inverse is true for those same pathogens moving out of the farm - the chance of a wild fish picking anything up from a cultured population would be possibly the same, but for that pathogen to spread into other members of the population they would have to be found in sufficient numbers, proximity, and have no or little resistance to what would be an endemic virus to begin with.
So, in a nutshell, I guess what I am trying to say is this: The fish health risk appears to fall on the side of the farmers, and needs to be managed effectively through good husbandry and effective viral screening in order to ensure that we continue to put more than 90% of salmon entered into our pens to market as a premium product.
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Lots of FF news here for the PAP gang to get their teeth into as well to get the fingers typing. ;) http://issuu.com/steelhead-salmon-society/docs/legacy1215
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A quick glance at page 3, the table of contents, and I focused on salmon farms as you suggested ... clicked on someone by the name of Cooperman saying the low Adams return this year could be caused by climate change or fish farms. Really? Does this dude follow any science on this stuff?
Closed the link.
Read a bit about Anissa's soccer playing daughter. Monumental fail to get the Mother's agenda in the headlines.
Closed the link.
Another protest about consumers having the right to choose what they buy. Give me a break!
Closed the link.
No more typing from me regarding this post Chris.
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What Dave said.
Chris, one would think that after all these discussions we have had on this thread you yourself could pick that piece you posted apart no problem. Sadly you seem more than willing to support the spread of misinformation which your link is riddled with. Oh, wait, I forgot you actually believe all that stuff despite repeatedly being pointed in the direction of actual facts about the topic that contradict your beliefs. Thanks for letting us see what out there tho, just don't think its actualy reality, ok?
I truly believe your heart is in the right place I just wonder if you ever personally question the integral aspects of posting/supporting distribution of information that is a gross misrepresentation of facts.
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A quick glance at page 3, the table of contents, and I focused on salmon farms as you suggested ... clicked on someone by the name of Cooperman saying the low Adams return this year could be caused by climate change or fish farms. Really? Does this dude follow any science on this stuff?
Closed the link.
Read a bit about Anissa's soccer playing daughter. Monumental fail to get the Mother's agenda in the headlines.
Closed the link.
Another protest about consumers having the right to choose what they buy. Give me a break!
Closed the link.
No more typing from me regarding this post Chris.
A closed mind on this subject too?lol
Here is a video from the Wild Salmon Caravan I filmed last Spring, Some may take Eddie's talk to heart. https://youtu.be/1evjp0xGL00
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The number of farms in BC based on salmonfarmers pdf file , if you care to read it, is from my count = 98 .
The link is there and it's not 30 pages long ,its on the first page and the info is from 2014.
The fact that Puget sound has only 8 ,conversely you would think they would have less problems based on scale ,8 vs 98.
Agree that 'thank god' we have a stricter regulatory environment here rather than Chile or Norway .
Not sure that we see all the issues,Sea lice,disease outbreak,etc that come out , this was another argument about govt scientists being muzzled .
Hoping the new govt can be more transparent about this .
As for problems down south, they did have an outbreak in 2012, reported facts in the newspaper article .
Maybe we had an outbreak and it was never reported?swept under the proverbial pen ,(sorry my favourite joke)
Sorry not gonna quote Cohen report or some facebook page ,don't think it has information that it conclusive, you keep quoting these, likely exactly for this reason.
Like the creative salmon model and kuterra, however I do understand it's probably more expensive.But we are talking about our precious environment that once gone is gone !It wont be suitable for farming either if its too polluted.
The Alaska salmon ranching is similar to the hatchery system in BC .The fact also that it puts the fish back in the hands of the fisherman, not a large multinational .
"Can you show me some scientific documentation where these “high” densities in net pens artificially elevate the IHN outbreak?"
Don't have the scientific study in hand I will rely on you to point these out,you can google them .Its pretty clear that this concentration elevates the risk of disease transmission .
Heres one
http://www.thefishsite.com/diseaseinfo/4/infectious-haematopoietic-necrosis-ihn/
Some good info actually stating that these diseases are hardest on fry,including the wild fish migrating through these affected areas at the time of an outbreak.
These IHN outbreaks certainly do not get swept under the proverbial pen. Learn about the law in this respect, Rook. Not liking Cohen now because it is not conclusive enough? Well, I guess if it is not finding fish farms as the sole cause then it is a bust huh? Does that mean you do not agree with Cohen's recommendations?
Alaska salmon ranching has similarities to Federal salmon hatcheries and even fish farms here, but they are not the same. The obvious differences are that: 1) federal hatcheries here are not releasing billions of fish like they are in Alaska; 2) federal hatcheries here do not raise fish in ocean net pens like ranched salmon are; and 3) the fish released from federal hatcheries here are not the same size as those released from ranched salmon operations. Ranched salmon are released at a much larger size which could translate in a much better competitive advantage when it comes to foraging for food in the marine environment. Juveniles released from federal hatcheries here still have to migrate out of the freshwater and then adapt to the saltwater environment. Ranching essentially bypasses this freshwater phase that juveniles from federal hatcheries have to negotiate through. Alaskan salmon fisheries were suffering before state management took over in the mid 70s. Without salmon ranching, they would likely be in even worse shape than in BC. I am not against salmon ranching, but I do take issue with Alaska's portrayal that ranched salmon are "wild" and that they do not rely heavily on aquaculture. Lastly, the release of billions of these ranched fish from North Pacific countries may not be so benign on the environment as many people think.
Rely on me to point this out for you? Ahhh....noooo...lol. I am not doing research for you...lol...but nice try. It's not up to me to prove that the Atlantic Salmon in net pens are artificially elevating IHN. You were the one that posted that so I believe the onus should be on you (or the individuals in that source you posted) to show me - not the other way around. If it's "pretty clear" then you should have no problem even tonight finding this documentation for me. You are certainty entitled to your own opinions on this, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
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First off. It looks more like Creative Salmon has 6 sites with 4 operating. Your link was very interesting, suggesting that IHN was introduced to Japan in the 60's by eggs from "Alaska" and has been around or should I say, "identified" since the 50's.
If the American funded activists in Canada cared so much about our wild salmon they would have included the US Atlantic farmed salmon in their campaign years ago. The 2012 outbreak off IHN in Washington happened at peak emigration. Those salmon pass through our Canadian waters. Talking about hiding information under the pen LOL.
Not sure what you are implying about the American funded activists in Canada .I am as much a conspiracy theorist as anybody,but I don't see the conspiracy ??? Its seems straight forward to me , these groups just plain and simple have environmental protection issues in mind .
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Public reporting of BC salmon aquaculture data is actually second to none when it comes to animal husbandry.
Fish health, sea lice, escapes, and other key information is either available through DFO, the BC Salmon Farmer's Association, or the companies themselves.
In today's regulatory and social license environment nothing gets, "swept under the proverbial pen" - so I hope we can put that one to rest.
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/index-eng.html
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/press-room/public+reporting
As for IHN, it is correct that Cermaq pre-emptively culled a farm upon receiving internal confirmation that IHN was present - that is, the farm was culled prior to getting an order from the CFIA to do so, at management's discretion, in order to enact timely and effective controls on the outbreak.
In the past salmon aquaculture companies had not been as successful in managing viral issues, as can be seen here: http://www.sfu.ca/grow/science/resources/1320968207.pdf
On the topic of disease transmission, Atlantic salmon are most certainly naïve to IHNv, although they can now be vaccinated against it.
A wild population hosting the virus will have developed resistance to it throughout their life cycle - most Sockeye will have been exposed to many pathogens in the freshwater environment while they co-exist with the dead and dying year-class entering the river they have not yet left...
From what we can tell, a wild population passing a farm has the potential to infect cultured fish if they are carriers - the virus will then spread throughout the population within the farm due to the relative proximity of fish in the area, and their potential lack of resistance.
The inverse is true for those same pathogens moving out of the farm - the chance of a wild fish picking anything up from a cultured population would be possibly the same, but for that pathogen to spread into other members of the population they would have to be found in sufficient numbers, proximity, and have no or little resistance to what would be an endemic virus to begin with.
So, in a nutshell, I guess what I am trying to say is this: The fish health risk appears to fall on the side of the farmers, and needs to be managed effectively through good husbandry and effective viral screening in order to ensure that we continue to put more than 90% of salmon entered into our pens to market as a premium product.
" In today's regulatory and social license environment nothing gets, "swept under the proverbial pen" - so I hope we can put that one to rest"
I have read the reports and inspections ,whats concerning is that there are never any punitive consequences,for a higher level of sea lice,disease,or overcrowding ,either they just harvest or an infusion of fresh water,talk about flushing it under the pen .Not sure what the remedy's for this would be.This is allowed to happen over and over, never are they proactive, seems the "organic "farms are, under the threat of losing their "organic " stamp.
"The inverse is true for those same pathogens moving out of the farm - the chance of a wild fish picking anything up from a cultured population would be possibly the same, but for that pathogen to spread into other members of the population they would have to be found in sufficient numbers, proximity, and have no or little resistance to what would be an endemic virus to begin with."
Of course the concentration of sea lice around the pen would be another issue that the wild salmon or even the vulnerable fry would have to deal with in such large numbers.Again the close proximity of the biomass leading to a higher concentration of sea lice infestation .
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These IHN outbreaks certainly do not get swept under the proverbial pen. Learn about the law in this respect, Rook. Not liking Cohen now because it is not conclusive enough? Well, I guess if it is not finding fish farms as the sole cause then it is a bust huh? Does that mean you do not agree with Cohen's recommendations?
Alaska salmon ranching has similarities to Federal salmon hatcheries and even fish farms here, but they are not the same. The obvious differences are that: 1) federal hatcheries here are not releasing billions of fish like they are in Alaska; 2) federal hatcheries here do not raise fish in ocean net pens like ranched salmon are; and 3) the fish released from federal hatcheries here are not the same size as those released from ranched salmon operations. Ranched salmon are released at a much larger size which could translate in a much better competitive advantage when it comes to foraging for food in the marine environment. Juveniles released from federal hatcheries here still have to migrate out of the freshwater and then adapt to the saltwater environment. Ranching essentially bypasses this freshwater phase that juveniles from federal hatcheries have to negotiate through. Alaskan salmon fisheries were suffering before state management took over in the mid 70s. Without salmon ranching, they would likely be in even worse shape than in BC. I am not against salmon ranching, but I do take issue with Alaska's portrayal that ranched salmon are "wild" and that they do not rely heavily on aquaculture. Lastly, the release of billions of these ranched fish from North Pacific countries may not be so benign on the environment as many people think.
Rely on me to point this out for you? Ahhh....noooo...lol. I am not doing research for you...lol...but nice try. It's not up to me to prove that the Atlantic Salmon in net pens are artificially elevating IHN. You were the one that posted that so I believe the onus should be on you (or the individuals in that source you posted) to show me - not the other way around. If it's "pretty clear" then you should have no problem even tonight finding this documentation for me. You are certainty entitled to your own opinions on this, but you are not entitled to your own facts.
I know that this disease is not ignored ,this being a serious threat to populations,wild and farmed.
The cohen report is hard to draw any conclusion from , this is becoming a dead horse to me, of course any conservation recommendations I am all for.The fact is NONE of them have been implemented and until the govt has the kahunas to institute these, they still remain recommendations and is only a start on the road to environmental responsibility.
The Alaska fish would be half wild , our own wild fish,unclipped coho ,IE, would be considered truly wild.Still like the idea of this ranching ,seems sustainable .
I have lots of documentation to back up my opinions based on facts I have posted here .
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Alaska ranching uses open net pens also Rook. I hope your documentation is not from Doc Morton. Even Chris can not tell me what she has got right.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/10/11/signs-of-a-crank-recognizing-pseudoscience/
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This is some very interesting info on salmon ranching in Alaska. Many of the comparisons between salmon ranching in Alaska and salmon farming here in BC are absolutely staggering and really shows how massive and intense salmon ranching actually is.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf
From the PFD:
Ranching introduces 250 times as many smolts, consumes 70 times as much feed to produce less than 10 times the volume of marketable salmon!
Whilst the salmon farming sector in BC has been subjected to scrutiny, vilification, political opportunism and uncertainty, salmon ranching has been allowed
to operate without constraint. Heavily subsidized by governments, and demonstrably less efficient in terms of feed conversion, ranching also creates intense competition for food to native wild salmon and is a real threat to the integrity of the gene pool of the wild fish – but it receives none of the scrutiny and negative publicity directed at salmon farming.
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Alaska ranching uses open net pens also Rook. I hope your documentation is not from Doc Morton. Even Chris can not tell me what she has got right.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2012/06/26/mortons-latest-error-dishonesty-or-ignorance/
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/10/11/signs-of-a-crank-recognizing-pseudoscience/
What she has done right? Well bringing awareness to the public of this threat to wild salmon here in BC has been very important.
Also just think, without her you and the PAP gang would not be the celebrities you are on FWR. Of course we only know the true names of Dave and his friend from Kamloops. ;D ;D ;D
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The only thing that Doc Morton has made me aware of, is that she never gets anything right LOL. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/12/19/junk-science-attack-on-processing-plant-gets-its-facts-totally-wrong/
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This is some very interesting info on salmon ranching in Alaska. Many of the comparisons between salmon ranching in Alaska and salmon farming here in BC are absolutely staggering and really shows how massive and intense salmon ranching actually is.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf
From the PFD:
Ranching introduces 250 times as many smolts, consumes 70 times as much feed to produce less than 10 times the volume of marketable salmon!
Whilst the salmon farming sector in BC has been subjected to scrutiny, vilification, political opportunism and uncertainty, salmon ranching has been allowed
to operate without constraint. Heavily subsidized by governments, and demonstrably less efficient in terms of feed conversion, ranching also creates intense competition for food to native wild salmon and is a real threat to the integrity of the gene pool of the wild fish – but it receives none of the scrutiny and negative publicity directed at salmon farming.
Wow! staggering numbers ... thanks for this aqua.
Chris I know you're far to busy for this so please pass this on Eddie, he might actually read it.
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Wow! staggering numbers ... thanks for this aqua.
Chris I know you're far to busy for this so please pass this on Eddie, he might actually read it.
I don't know if this has been posted before, but it's an interesting graph comparing Alaska's ranched releases and Fraser Sockeye runs:
https://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/alaskareleasecomparison1.jpg
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Would be nice to see the graph updated to 2015. That would make 2010 and 2014 even more of an anomaly.
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This is some very interesting info on salmon ranching in Alaska. Many of the comparisons between salmon ranching in Alaska and salmon farming here in BC are absolutely staggering and really shows how massive and intense salmon ranching actually is.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf
From the PFD:
Ranching introduces 250 times as many smolts, consumes 70 times as much feed to produce less than 10 times the volume of marketable salmon!
Whilst the salmon farming sector in BC has been subjected to scrutiny, vilification, political opportunism and uncertainty, salmon ranching has been allowed
to operate without constraint. Heavily subsidized by governments, and demonstrably less efficient in terms of feed conversion, ranching also creates intense competition for food to native wild salmon and is a real threat to the integrity of the gene pool of the wild fish – but it receives none of the scrutiny and negative publicity directed at salmon farming.
I agree with the majority of this, and it brings up a point by that guy (UBC) in clayquotkids video. about what we don't know what happens in the ocean and it's ability to produce enough food for what we are dumping in. both ranch, hatchery.
where I don't think its a fair comparison is saying that the end goal of ranching is producing 'marketable' salmon..... I definitely could be wrong cause I only read a few articles, but wasn't ranching embraced because both sporties and the commercial guys were benefiting?
also, the one huge plus of ranching as opposed to farming..... again I only read a few articles. was that these salmon return to rivers to try to spawn naturally. If they are, then they are adding a significant amount of nutrients to the river during spawning and death. as opposed to pooping all over the bottom in the same spot.
of course you could then argue that these ranched fish are screwing up the natural populations with interbreeding and resource competition. blaaaa this issue makes me wanna crack a beer at 9 in the morning.
now imagine if we dumped all the money into habitat restoration instead of lawyers and commissions and lobbyists and advertising.
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I agree with the majority of this, and it brings up a point by that guy (UBC) in clayquotkids video. about what we don't know what happens in the ocean and it's ability to produce enough food for what we are dumping in. both ranch, hatchery.
now imagine if we dumped all the money into habitat restoration instead of lawyers and commissions and lobbyists and advertising.
Totally agree on both points banx.
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I agree with the majority of this, and it brings up a point by that guy (UBC) in clayquotkids video. about what we don't know what happens in the ocean and it's ability to produce enough food for what we are dumping in. both ranch, hatchery.
where I don't think its a fair comparison is saying that the end goal of ranching is producing 'marketable' salmon..... I definitely could be wrong cause I only read a few articles, but wasn't ranching embraced because both sporties and the commercial guys were benefiting?
also, the one huge plus of ranching as opposed to farming..... again I only read a few articles. was that these salmon return to rivers to try to spawn naturally. If they are, then they are adding a significant amount of nutrients to the river during spawning and death. as opposed to pooping all over the bottom in the same spot.
of course you could then argue that these ranched fish are screwing up the natural populations with interbreeding and resource competition. blaaaa this issue makes me wanna crack a beer at 9 in the morning.
now imagine if we dumped all the money into habitat restoration instead of lawyers and commissions and lobbyists and advertising.
I am on board with you there Banx. Its after 5:00, Cheers :)
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I know that this disease is not ignored ,this being a serious threat to populations,wild and farmed.
The cohen report is hard to draw any conclusion from , this is becoming a dead horse to me, of course any conservation recommendations I am all for.The fact is NONE of them have been implemented and until the govt has the kahunas to institute these, they still remain recommendations and is only a start on the road to environmental responsibility.
The Alaska fish would be half wild , our own wild fish,unclipped coho ,IE, would be considered truly wild.Still like the idea of this ranching ,seems sustainable .
I have lots of documentation to back up my opinions based on facts I have posted here .
Would you consider hatchery fish from a federal or provincial hatchery as "half wild"? Like fish in federal hatcheries, ranched salmon are artificially propagated. Are you saying that salmon farms artificially elevating IHN is a fact then? If it is a fact then please show me this documentation that says so.
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This is some very interesting info on salmon ranching in Alaska. Many of the comparisons between salmon ranching in Alaska and salmon farming here in BC are absolutely staggering and really shows how massive and intense salmon ranching actually is.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf
From the PFD:
Ranching introduces 250 times as many smolts, consumes 70 times as much feed to produce less than 10 times the volume of marketable salmon!
Whilst the salmon farming sector in BC has been subjected to scrutiny, vilification, political opportunism and uncertainty, salmon ranching has been allowed
to operate without constraint. Heavily subsidized by governments, and demonstrably less efficient in terms of feed conversion, ranching also creates intense competition for food to native wild salmon and is a real threat to the integrity of the gene pool of the wild fish – but it receives none of the scrutiny and negative publicity directed at salmon farming.
The survival rate would be similar to that in a hatchery raised fish,and to boot ,it is consuming natural food after it leaves.
You could also compare how much feed the farm raised consumes per fish throughout its 2 year cycle,whereas the ranched salmon, is only ranched for 1 year.
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The survival rate would be similar to that in a hatchery raised fish,and to boot ,it is consuming natural food after it leaves.
You could also compare how much feed the farm raised consumes per fish throughout its 2 year cycle,whereas the ranched salmon, is only ranched for 1 year.
As mentioned earlier the survival rate for Ranched salmon is much higher than regular hatchery smolts and fry because they are held so long to achieve the size that provides a high survival rate which is something most hatcheries have difficulty achieving due to lack of space.
Generally wild salmon covert 10/1 which is extremely high compared to farmed salmon.
http://seafood.oregonstate.edu/.pdf%20Links/Farmed%20or%20Wild%20-%20Both%20Types%20of%20Salmon%20taste%20Good%20and%20Are%20Good%20For%20You.pdf
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/aquaculture-regs-ecology-action-centre-1.3356982?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=ea8a34786d-Salmon_News_Dec_9_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-ea8a34786d-166914497
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/aquaculture-regs-ecology-action-centre-1.3356982?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=ea8a34786d-Salmon_News_Dec_9_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-ea8a34786d-166914497
Did you read this link Chris? Please explain how this has relevance to BC and Washington salmon farming practices.
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Did you read this link Chris? Please explain how this has relevance to BC and Washington salmon farming practices.
A FF anywhere is still a FF. ??? ;D
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A FF anywhere is still a FF. ??? ;D
Unless it is in Doc Mortons home country. LOL. :)
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A FF anywhere is still a FF. ??? ;D
Really? You suggest a fish farm in Thailand, Vietnam or China is comparable to what we have in BC?
A Chilean, Norwegian or a Nova Scotian fish farm is comparable to what we have here? As Aqua suggested, how is it possible you believe this after all that has been posted on this and other sites? Take off the tinfoil hat Chris and do some research. Show us a reason why we should believe you, give us some science to show why we should follow you, not just your opinion because you are embarrassing yourself and losing credibility to those that actually think for themselves.
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Really? You suggest a fish farm in Thailand, Vietnam or China is comparable to what we have in BC?
A Chilean, Norwegian or a Nova Scotian fish farm is comparable to what we have here? As Aqua suggested, how is it possible you believe this after all that has been posted on this and other sites? Take off the tinfoil hat Chris and do some research. Show us a reason why we should believe you, give us some science to show why we should follow you, not just your opinion because you are embarrassing yourself and losing credibility to those that actually think for themselves.
Now now, stop getting personal after all it is near Christmas and, good will to all men.
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Now now, stop getting personal after all it is near Christmas and, good will to all men.
Happy season to you Chris. :). I must say that you are the main reason that I jumped the fence. When I started on FWR and asked for help to answer questions from the anti-farming group, I found it very frustrating that all I got was, its there look for it. After looking for it, I found why you could not answer me, and still do not today. BS dog science and repetitive hearsay makes the news leaving real life to be just another day. Not being led by the nose today feels realy good. :)
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Happy season to you Chris. :). I must say that you are the main reason that I jumped the fence. When I started on FWR and asked for help to answer questions from the anti-farming group, I found it very frustrating that all I got was, its there look for it. After looking for it, I found why you could not answer me, and still do not today. BS dog science and repetitive hearsay makes the news leaving real life to be just another day. Not being led by the nose today feels realy good. :)
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, also glad you continue to contribute to this topic and came on board. The reason I post is to keep this topic going so people see both side of the debate and keep the thread going.
Busy these days going through my hundreds of 25 plus year VHS tapes and DVD so watch for some I post to my u Tube channel, you might even see Dave in a couple of clips later on, so people know what he looks like. ;D ;D
I have one I produced 19 years ago, "A River In Crisis" nearly ready to put up.It is about the Slesse Clay Slide on the Chilliwack River using some of my filming, other film I dug up and BC TV footage and reports. You never know it may start another topic, I know Dave will jump in. :P
All the best. Chris
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A FF anywhere is still a FF. ??? ;D
You sound like Don Staniford when you speak like that.
BC has it's own specific advantages and challenges when it comes to salmon aquaculture.
Right now the scientific community is still working on identifying the natural influencing factors in wild salmon population fluctuations, and is pretty far away (IMHO) from actually pointing to an accurate number when it comes to what salmon farms might impact either way.
The continued insular thinking by those who oppose the practice is predominately based on speculative, fill-in-the-blanks studies which only serve to provide peer reviewed fodder full of "may" "might" "could" weasel words which completely invalidate their findings.
As Dr. Beamish pointed out - that is part of science, and the rebuttals crafted in response to such papers clearly point out where the plot falls apart.
I am quite confident that current projects aimed at fish health matters and farmed/wild interactions will support what seems to be clear, at least anecdotally, which is healthy farmed salmon pose little risk to wild populations - and through effective management from the aquaculture side, those criteria can be achieved.
As I've pointed out before elsewhere - if there actually was a time when salmon aquaculture had a % mortality on wild salmon populations identified and supported by observation, it would then have to be compared to other impacts like the survival of released wild Coho and undersize Chinook by fishermen.
That's a double edged sword, and I have a hard time believing that whatever measurable impact aquaculture might have will rank higher than many common practices with grandfathered in "Social License".
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You sound like Don Staniford when you speak like that.
BC has it's own specific advantages and challenges when it comes to salmon aquaculture.
Right now the scientific community is still working on identifying the natural influencing factors in wild salmon population fluctuations, and is pretty far away (IMHO) from actually pointing to an accurate number when it comes to what salmon farms might impact either way.
The continued insular thinking by those who oppose the practice is predominately based on speculative, fill-in-the-blanks studies which only serve to provide peer reviewed fodder full of "may" "might" "could" weasel words which completely invalidate their findings.
As Dr. Beamish pointed out - that is part of science, and the rebuttals crafted in response to such papers clearly point out where the plot falls apart.
I am quite confident that current projects aimed at fish health matters and farmed/wild interactions will support what seems to be clear, at least anecdotally, which is healthy farmed salmon pose little risk to wild populations - and through effective management from the aquaculture side, those criteria can be achieved.
As I've pointed out before elsewhere - if there actually was a time when salmon aquaculture had a % mortality on wild salmon populations identified and supported by observation, it would then have to be compared to other impacts like the survival of released wild Coho and undersize Chinook by fishermen.
That's a double edged sword, and I have a hard time believing that whatever measurable impact aquaculture might have will rank higher than many common practices with grandfathered in "Social License".
They were talking the same in 2003, in an editorial I just read last night in BC Outdoors, may type it out one day. :-\
Nice you know Don too. ;D ;D
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children
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children
;D but welcome to the topic.
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As mentioned earlier the survival rate for Ranched salmon is much higher than regular hatchery smolts and fry because they are held so long to achieve the size that provides a high survival rate which is something most hatcheries have difficulty achieving due to lack of space.
Generally wild salmon covert 10/1 which is extremely high compared to farmed salmon.
http://seafood.oregonstate.edu/.pdf%20Links/Farmed%20or%20Wild%20-%20Both%20Types%20of%20Salmon%20taste%20Good%20and%20Are%20Good%20For%20You.pdf
Some good info there,thanks for that but if you read the next sentence
"However, it should be noted that the water content in live prey items is much higher than in feed. "
So in effect what they are saying is that part of the weight of the feed would be water ,that would make the feed ratio smaller .
They also eat zooplankton which occur naturally ,rather than relying on other fish bycatch.Has anyone done a zooplankton study??
Also mentioned is the fact that the smolts would continue to contribute their biomass to the environment, sure the survival rate would be less but they would also provide feed for other species.As well when they spawn , they contribute to the river environment,providing feed for animals and significant nutrients to there environment when they die.
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They were talking the same in 2003, in an editorial I just read last night in BC Outdoors, may type it out one day. :-\
Nice you know Don too. ;D ;D
You raise a good point - the discussion regarding the proposed/supposed impacts of salmon aquaculture on wild stocks in BC has been going on for many decades now.
While the least high-tech, and probably most effective, measure being comparing similar run fluctuations between areas with and without farms, we now wait for the very high-tech findings of researchers including Dr. Miller-Saunders which will show what might be present and transferrable - even if there is no correlation shown between farms and notable, abnormal declines.
And yes, I do *know* Don.
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Pretty soon no one will care about studies about old style net pen fish farming because no one will be buying them. Except for the one's from the back of Bawb's truck. He might need some help so it's not all doom and gloom.
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https://www.climate.gov/news-features/event-tracker/record-setting-bloom-toxic-algae-north-pacific
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http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/salmon-enhancement-a-top-priority/
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http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/salmon-enhancement-a-top-priority/
Good to see them putting some funds and work into this and a good P/R move too. I see they are blaming logging and habitat loss for the loss of wild salmon stocks to many rivers, no mention of other causes. :-X :P
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Did you miss the part about warming water? Did you read Bob's post about toxic algae and how it affects salmon rearing in the ocean?
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Good to see them putting some funds and work into this and a good P/R move too. I see they are blaming logging and habitat loss for the loss of wild salmon stocks to many rivers, no mention of other causes. :-X :P
I guess if they didn't donate anything then it would be seen as a poor P/R move and there would inevitably be those that would critical of that, so it's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. I wonder how much money, equipment and expertise Raincoast Conservation Foundation, Watershed Watch Salmon Society, David Suzuki Foundation and the Coastal Alliance for Aquaculture Reform and Living Oceans Society have donated lately to these local salmon enhancement facilities? I mean you have all these groups that claim to love wild salmon, but I wonder how many of them are putting money into these grassroot projects. Are other stakeholders (like commercial fisheries) and other industries stepping up to help these local salmon enhancement facilities? Some of that equipment if purchased new would be a huge expense for those with shoestring budgets. Even if technology changes, that equipment that is donated is still very usable and valuable to those local groups. If they can make use of it that is a plus. Saves these groups some money and it's doesn't end up in a landfill.
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From the Carvan From Wild Salmon to get your day off to a good start. ;D https://youtu.be/F2-sT2CUd84
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And for Dave. https://youtu.be/8KmHFZ_hzQ8
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Good to see them putting some funds and work into this and a good P/R move too. I see they are blaming logging and habitat loss for the loss of wild salmon stocks to many rivers, no mention of other causes. :-X :P
Given the nature of the job - working on the water, running boats, watching salmon eat - it's pretty fair to say that a high % of aquaculture workers are avid fishers.
Maybe they volunteer, donate, and support enhancement and habitat causes because they actually care?
You may need to create the distinction to rationalize your position, but your "side" doesn't have a monopoly on caring about wild salmon.
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Given the nature of the job - working on the water, running boats, watching salmon eat - it's pretty fair to say that a high % of aquaculture workers are avid fishers.
Maybe they volunteer, donate, and support enhancement and habitat causes because they actually care?
You may need to create the distinction to rationalize your position, but your "side" doesn't have a monopoly on caring about wild salmon.
As I believe you work for the FF industry do you see any negatives or is everything fine from your standpoint?
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As I believe you work for the FF industry do you see any negatives or is everything fine from your standpoint?
I do work in the salmon aquaculture industry, and have for more than a decade.
During that time I have never seen an example of where salmon aquaculture in BC has been shown to cause a decline in wild salmon populations anywhere farms exist.
What I have seen - from a boat, from a kayak, from the beach, from the riverbank, from anywhere I have actively and passionately fished for any number of species over the years - is many, many, observable one-time and annually repeating impacts on fish populations that have absolutely nothing to do with the culturing of salmon in pens on the Coast.
The criticisms of salmon aquaculture start at an assumption of harm lacking evidence, and then work backwards to fill in areas where limited and incomplete data serves to support the "Precautionary Principle" in the construct of peer-reviewed risk analyses utilising "may" and "could" to give the appearance of a statistical reality.
What has been, and continues to be lacking, is a testable and repeatable hypothesis which identifies a signal from aquaculture within the wide range of factors known to influence wild salmon populations.
I've spent almost half my time in the industry working directly with enhancement groups trying to boost salmon populations in the areas we operate, and have also led wild salmonid sea lice data collection projects mirroring Morton's work in the Broughton, as well as being Co-Chair of the Clayoquot Salmon Roundtable group for the last few years - so I am quite familiar with what we know and don't know about the success of many different runs on the coast.
I am thankful that there are many groups and individuals out there who are asking all the questions regarding salmon survival, and not simply beating the dead horse of a "smoking gun" they seem to think aquaculture holds.
I don't mean to rag on you personally Chris, but I have to say you are part of a group which is so startlingly myopic in your campaign against farmed salmon, I truly feel you miss out on a great deal of opportunity to find common ground.
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I do work in the salmon aquaculture industry, and have for more than a decade.
During that time I have never seen an example of where salmon aquaculture in BC has been shown to cause a decline in wild salmon populations anywhere farms exist.
What I have seen - from a boat, from a kayak, from the beach, from the riverbank, from anywhere I have actively and passionately fished for any number of species over the years - is many, many, observable one-time and annually repeating impacts on fish populations that have absolutely nothing to do with the culturing of salmon in pens on the Coast.
The criticisms of salmon aquaculture start at an assumption of harm lacking evidence, and then work backwards to fill in areas where limited and incomplete data serves to support the "Precautionary Principle" in the construct of peer-reviewed risk analyses utilising "may" and "could" to give the appearance of a statistical reality.
What has been, and continues to be lacking, is a testable and repeatable hypothesis which identifies a signal from aquaculture within the wide range of factors known to influence wild salmon populations.
I've spent almost half my time in the industry working directly with enhancement groups trying to boost salmon populations in the areas we operate, and have also led wild salmonid sea lice data collection projects mirroring Morton's work in the Broughton, as well as being Co-Chair of the Clayoquot Salmon Roundtable group for the last few years - so I am quite familiar with what we know and don't know about the success of many different runs on the coast.
I am thankful that there are many groups and individuals out there who are asking all the questions regarding salmon survival, and not simply beating the dead horse of a "smoking gun" they seem to think aquaculture holds.
I don't mean to rag on you personally Chris, but I have to say you are part of a group which is so startlingly myopic in your campaign against farmed salmon, I truly feel you miss out on a great deal of opportunity to find common ground.
Thanks for this. Of course as I have said before I worry about what FF have done in other countries and it could happen here over time.
We have, as a human race has in the past and are still making many mistakes that are running our planet a bit at a time.
The good point from those opposed to FF it helps keep the industry on its toes. Its like in our democratic government system if there was no opposition to those in power they could do what they like although some try to do that, but as the last federal election showed, they were sent to the other side of the house.
Thanks again for our post, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and good sports fishing too.
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A nicely worded and well measured response CK. We FWR members are happy you're willing to share your hands on knowledge and expertise on this contentious issue.
As I have said many times before, fish farming as it is practiced on this coast is just a scapegoat for the real reasons wild salmon populations are dropping.
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I know saying this is about as ineffective as SLICE is becoming on sealice, but saying people here are against salmon farming is not true. Just the way their farmed. But at least you guys have a few shoulders to cry on now. :'(
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Quite some time ago, years in fact, I saw a video, I think it was entitled "Calling from the Coast"
Any way It was Ms. Morton netting juvenile salmon in the Discovery Passage area near some fish farms.
These little salmon were heavily infested with sea lice. I know that sea lice are a natural occurring fact of life in the ocean.
But thousands of salmon in a pen on a salmon migration route is not natural.
It has made a believer in me that ocean net pen farmed salmon are a detriment to our wild salmon stocks.
And nothing will change my mind on this matter. And eventually we are going to pay a heavy price because of farmed salmon in the ocean.
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I know saying this is about as ineffective as SLICE is becoming on sealice, but saying people here are against salmon farming is not true. Just the way their farmed. But at least you guys have a few shoulders to cry on now. :'(
There they're their TB, no use crying over something that is not going away. Perhaps this may make you feel better. :)
http://www.education.com/worksheet/article/there-their-theyre-third/
http://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
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And nothing will change my mind on this matter.
Bingo, I think you nailed it. ;) Do some research on Pink salmon population fluctuations in the Broughton area; go back before fish farms and compare the numbers to the last few cycles. Google is your friend but if your mind is made up don’t waste your time; send money to Almo.
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/04/18/landmark-collaborative-sea-lice-study-published/
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http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/04/18/landmark-collaborative-sea-lice-study-published/
From your link. "About this blog"
"We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture." ;D ;D
And
mikearmstrong184
2013/04/19 at 11:17
You just pointed out with the formula the problem with this discussion. It your world it is all about what is in the pen! No one disputes that the sea lice come from the wild fish. Locking millions of Atlantics in an open net pen, providing hundreds of thousands of hosts for lice incubation, is the issue.
Show me the data that says if this formula & Slice applied at 3 lice/fish (6 x the Norwegian threshold of .5/fish), there is a corresponding drop in lice on the wild stock. If a Fraser wild salmon swims north and only picks up 1 louse per site as it passes, it will not survive. You have multiple farm operations leaching adult and larval sea lice, sited right on the migration route the wild stocks will follow.
Reply
mikearmstrong184
2013/04/18 at 12:16
Good paper on what happens inside the pen. Now where is the coloration between the reduced sea louse counts inside the pens, and the count on the wild fish passing by outside.
Where are the corresponding wild smolt lice infection numbers? Does a reduction of lice inside the pen result in an infection reduction on the wild salmon smolt outside?
Wild salmon don’t get inoculated against disease or treated with Slice. 3 gravid lice/fish on a site with 1,000,000 fish could produce 1,800,000.000 larva every 2 to 3 weeks.
Why is the acceptable threshold here of 3 so much higher than in Norway where a count of .5 females/fish triggering a treatment.
The Atlantic smolts attacked in Norway are 5 to6 inches in length and scales up when they pass the open net pens.
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Also from the same link Chris. :)
"Clearly you didn’t read the paper, of you would see there is a formula in there for calculating the growth rate of sea lice in a farm pen. Take a look and give it a try!
You also don’t seem to realize that wild salmon are exposed to sea lice naturally. In fact, *GASP* that’s where they come from in the first place! Wild fish! Whodathunkit."
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Who is Mike Armstrong?
How does he conclude one sea louse on a smolt (he doesn't mention what size smolt of course, or species of salmon) kills it?
Read the article again Chris; read the list of authors, then question this fellows logic.
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Who is Mike Armstrong?
How does he conclude one sea louse on a smolt (he doesn't mention what size smolt of course, or species of salmon) kills it?
Read the article again Chris; read the list of authors, then question this fellows logic.
I guess you missed this part.
From your link. "About this blog"
"We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."
Just saying.lol
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Just saying :)
http://www.aquaculture.ca/
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/aquaculture.html
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I guess you missed this part.
From your link. "About this blog"
"We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."
Just saying.lol
This is a prime example of what frustrates me when discussing aquaculture with many critics.
When an opponent makes a claim based on back-of-the-napkin calculations, completely lacking any scientific corroboration, that serves to support the anti view - it is given an immediate pass.
When someone in support of aquaculture makes a counter-claim using evidence or valid methodology it is dismissed - simply due to confirmation bias.
On the topic of sea lice in British Columbia, what models created by people like Krkosek fail to incorporate is the natural world - resulting in an over-simplified and unrealistic result.
You can calculate the amount of larval lice generated using averages of gravid females found in samples on the farm - what you can't realistically estimate is the survival and success of those lice in relation to their ability to attach to passing wild smolts.
(A mortality calculation is used, with no estimate of predation and infection ratio incorporated)
It has been shown in research from Washington State farms that the biomass of filter and detritus feeders on cage systems is significant, and that the variety of fish and other aquatic animals utilising the farms as habitat are also feeding on anything they find in or around the farms.
http://www.wfga.net/documents/marine_finfish_finalreport.pdf
I've personally experienced huge schools of herring, anchovy, and pilchard feeding adjacent to farms.
It is partly because of these natural controls that we don't see lice generated by farmed hosts creating a reliable, measurable increase in infection rates on wild fish nearby.
Also, larval sea lice are zooplankton which wild smolts and other small fish feed on - there's a reason naturally occurring lice get close enough to infect stickleback and salmon in the nearshore environment.
There are also environmental aspects key to louse survival including temperature and salinity that have a major role in their abundance - some years are worse than others.
Simply put, if the models accurately portrayed unnatural, uncontrolled increases in louse abundance related to farmed salmon populations we would see a correlation in survival rates in wild populations adjacent to farming areas.
Not only has this not been seen, but research has shown (Morton's own paper) that there is no statistical difference in areas with and without farms.
"The survival of the pink salmon cohort was not statistically different from a reference region without salmon farms."
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract
What we have is researchers creating papers which hypothesise impacts that are not seen at the population level, and only seem to exist in either models or speculative findings.
If farms had an additional negative impact on wild populations it would show up in enumeration work being done all over the coast.
Since we don't see that, I am confident in my opinion that the effects of salmon aquaculture on wild populations are either neutral, or too small to be measured against the vast range of natural impacts.
But, then again, I am unashamedly pro-aquaculture, so...
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But, then again, I am unashamedly pro-aquaculture, so...
Thats OK, we understand this as it is your livelihood! :P
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Thats OK, we understand this as it is your livelihood! :P
Makes more sense than Doc Mortons never get it right livelihood. :)
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Makes more sense than Doc Mortons never get it right livelihood. :)
If it was not for Alex you would not be here and nothing to talk about, no livelihood. ;D ;D
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And if were not for Alex the monumental waste of money spent on the Cohen Commission would perhaps be available for salmon habitat restoration work or more research on things that really matter to wild salmon, like ocean acidification, overfishing, warming Fraser River water temperatures, etc
I admire your drive Chris but you're not a pup ... it's time to put your energy into something that matters in the bigger picture. Salmon farms are here to stay in BC and will undoubtedly expand in number when Miller-Saunders and Riddell's (along with many more researchers) work is completed.
In the meantime take some drum lessons from Eddie ;D Would love to see someone filming you doing that ;)
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And if were not for Alex the monumental waste of money spent on the Cohen Commission would perhaps be available for salmon habitat restoration work or more research on things that really matter to wild salmon, like ocean acidification, overfishing, warming Fraser River water temperatures, etc
I admire your drive Chris but you're not a pup ... it's time to put your energy into something that matters in the bigger picture. Salmon farms are here to stay in BC and will undoubtedly expand in number when Miller-Saunders and Riddell's (along with many more researchers) work is completed.
In the meantime take some drum lessons from Eddie ;D Would love to see someone filming you doing that ;)
Wow, you know what they are going to report already, you said you were just a lowly DFO tech. ;D ;D
Some reading for you while I play badminton tonight. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/after-years-of-delay-ottawa-setting-aside-ocean-territory-for-specialprotection/article27730642/
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Here's a good link regarding the warming Pacific Ocean and how that influences salmon populations.
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archiv...uvenile-salmon
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Here's a good link regarding the warming Pacific Ocean and how that influences salmon populations.
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archiv...uvenile-salmon
Page not found here is the correct link and direct link to the story.
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2015/dec/osunoaa-study-warm-water-years-are-tough-juvenile-salmon
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Thanks Chris!
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Keeping the thread alive before we have a cease fire at Christmas time.
http://www.livingoceans.org/media/news/salmon-farms-out-control
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Will you be funding them Chris? If so, will you get a tax deductible receipt, and .... didn't you post this link earlier?
Don't you think if escaped Atlantic's were colonizing BC rivers, the hundreds of thousands of anglers fishing these rivers would have reported them, if not to DFO who obviously can't be trusted ::) but perhaps on social media? Seriously, if you caught an Atlantic on the Vedder, would you not let the world know?
Damn straight you would.
Happy holidays my friend but just so you know, no cease fire anytime from this front ;) As long as you post garbage, myself and a few others will pick it up and properly bag it.
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No mention of salmon farming in the US once again. Follow the money that the US foundations pump up here. I don't see any of it going to enhance salmon.
" By 2009, Tides was responsible for allocating $75 million per year in donor money, most of which went to fund progressive political causes."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tides_(organization)#Tides_Canada
http://www.livingoceans.org/about/oceans-fund
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How ironic that the tides foundation is all big tobacco money.
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Its that time again.lol http://www.omrn-rrgo.ca/confpres/heaslip.pdf
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http://youtu.be/6X6xcqu09jk
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http://youtu.be/6X6xcqu09jk
And pictures from today, videos later. https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/1126354234042643/?notif_t=like
A note, we need salmon to come back to our rivers as more than just humans depend on them to do so. FF fish in a pen do not do this, a fact many miss.
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http://youtu.be/6X6xcqu09jk
Perhaps your best post Bob, and Happy New Year to you bud! So refreshing to see First Nation leaders thinking and learning for themselves, rather than being told what is best for them. In the early 90’s I was a minor part of the DFO’s Aboriginal Fishery Strategy team and was fortunate then to meet the FN leaders of today; one of them was included in this film.
This video truly exemplifies the disconnect as to what certain activists say regarding negative FN involvement in BC’s expanding aquaculture industry … and what is actually happening and being discussed by band members in the coastal communities that really need this economic boost. Good on them, and I expect more coastal bands will be coming on board and not only allowing salmon farms in their traditional territories, but requesting them.
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And pictures from today, videos later. https://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/1126354234042643/?notif_t=like
A note, we need salmon to come back to our rivers as more than just humans depend on them to do so. FF fish in a pen do not do this, a fact many miss.
Bang on Chris. The way to get salmon back to rivers, and their necessary carcasses for the ecosystem, is to stop killing them.
Try telling that to commercial fishermen, FN fishers or heaven forbid, sports fishermen ;D
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Bang on Chris. The way to get salmon back to rivers, and their necessary carcasses for the ecosystem, is to stop killing them.
Try telling that to commercial fishermen, FN fishers or heaven forbid, sports fishermen ;D
In some ways you are right but you miss one important point David, if it was not for a good number of people in each of the sectors you mentioned and others that truly care and try to do something about it, for the survival of our wild fish we would lose much more due to destruction of habitat and other numerous attacks on our fragile fish stocks, many man made others not so.
Sometimes one wonders if some people, business owners, including government too would like that, as development then could go on unabated, dams on the Fraser River at Moran etc.. We hope the new government now in power in Ottawa, will do more to look after our wild stocks than has been done in the past.
These people in this video I filmed today really care!!! https://youtu.be/evph8ZEgJxU
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An more from yesterday. https://youtu.be/91hWBHxuQ2s
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http://youtu.be/zEehqCUpI5c
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http://youtu.be/zEehqCUpI5c
LOL!
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LOL!
9 year old video, not current. :o ::) :-[
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Fish Farm Blues. ;D ;D ;D https://youtu.be/73fr6Kyg_Lo
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9 year old video, not current. :o ::) :-[
Not unlike most of the anti-fish farm rhetoric.
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http://youtu.be/zEehqCUpI5c
Need the ok from the mothership first before commenting. Ironically, there are lots of similarities between anti-fish farm leadership and the former Federal Conservative Government.
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9 year old video, not current. :o ::) :-[
And there has been no anti-fish-farmer still that can answer the simple question, when has salmon farming killed wild salmon in BC or Washington? I think now they should just be called dodgers lol.
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And there has been no anti-fish-farmer still that can answer the simple question, when has salmon farming killed wild salmon in BC or Washington? I think now they should just be called dodgers lol.
Dodgers, I love The Los Angles Dodgers even when they were in Brooklyn. ;D ;D ;D
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Not unlike most of the anti-fish farm rhetoric.
Glad you are back.
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Dodgers, I love The Los Angles Dodgers even when they were in Brooklyn. ;D ;D ;D
Bob, you must remember, Chris always wanted to be a politician. Even though I don't believe he ever ran for office, he was a campaign manager for a local politician who went on be a rather famous MLA. Chris learned from this man (whom he now despises) the art of deflecting questions when the answers don't agree with your agenda ;)
Give it another try Chris; answer Bob's question.
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Bob, you must remember, Chris always wanted to be a politician. Even though I don't believe he ever ran for office, he was a campaign manager for a local politician who went on be a rather famous MLA. Chris learned from this man (whom he now despises) the art of deflecting questions when the answers don't agree with your agenda ;)
Give it another try Chris; answer Bob's question.
I donot despise anyone, just disagree at times with what people do and say, like on this thread. ;D ;D ;D
(I was not a campaign manager by the way, make sure you get your facts straight ;D ;D ;D)
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http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/salmon-farming-factsheet.pdf
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http://www.farmedanddangerous.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/salmon-farming-factsheet.pdf
Love the references ;)
Sorry, I thought you told me you were the CM for our esteemed MLA. Apologies, as even you can't be that (pick a word) ;D ;D ;D
And again, nice deflection. Bob, trust me, he will never answer the question as a truthful answer would end this argument once and for all.
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Love the references ;)
Sorry, I thought you told me you were the CM for our esteemed MLA. Apologies, as even you can't be that (pick a word) ;D ;D ;D
And again, nice deflection. Bob, trust me, he will never answer the question as a truthful answer would end this argument once and for all.
That is Ok, you are aging like a few of us here where remembering facts, of the past are becoming difficult.
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If there were better information on the affects of open pen fish farms in BC these type of pompous remarks about fish farming and the posters would be a non issue. But they like to play the field until the facts catch up to them. Then you'll not hear a word from them. Sorry you have to read their drivel Chris. Soon fish farming will be done more sensibly and they will fossilize into the past.
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If there were better information on the affects of open pen fish farms in BC these type of pompous remarks about fish farming and the posters would be a non issue. But they like to play the field until the facts catch up to them. Then you'll not hear a word from them. Sorry you have to read their drivel Chris. Soon fish farming will be done more sensibly and they will fossilize into the past.
Perhaps you can answer Bob's question?
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Perhaps you can answer Bob's question?
From FB that Dave refuses to read so i have to post things for him. :o
"Walk the beaches of Quadra Island or kayak along the shore of the Discovery Islands or the Johnstone straight and it is disgusting the garbage that litters the shoreline.....when on my old charter boat I would scoop and haul where ever we went....The Quadra Island Earth Day Beach Clean-up organized by the Q I Chapter of the Sierra Club hauled dump truck loads full ..... check out the garbage from the aquaculture industry ... the piss pharms , and oyster farms who are without a doubt , are the main polluters, AND who cleaned it up .... the environmentally aware.... This industry has got to go !
https://youtu.be/R7xiR1Z5ZNI
And coming soon.
The Wild Salmon Protection Act to be introduced this year.
The Wild Salmon Protection Act (Bill C-225, formerly C-518) would require fish farms operating on BC's coast to transition from harmful open-net fish farms to safe closed containment systems.
BC's wild salmon stocks are in a vulnerable state. By moving fish farms to closed containment, we protect our wild stocks from sea lice, pollutants and other harmful substances that inevitably disseminate from open-net fish farms.
The future of BC aquaculture is closed containment. The technology exists, it is economically feasible, and the prospective jobs and economic opportunities for British Columbians are immense.
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So now you post a 5 year old clip? You’ve had 3 opportunities in one day to explain the whys and wherefores of what you believe but you’ve delivered jack squat; don’t worry Chris, I’ll put you out of your misery and won’t ask again as I know you can’t answer Bob’s question without embarrassing your cause.
Perhaps troutbreath will bail you out as the question is now to him ;D
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http://globalnews.ca/news/2392094/b-c-company-still-awaiting-federal-approval-for-new-food-for-farmed-fish/
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Looks like Santa was good to them. :o ::)
http://www.marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/container2015/29-dec-2015/
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Looks like Santa was good to them. :o ::)
http://www.marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/container2015/29-dec-2015/
You appear surprised or shocked about this certification ... why?
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If there were better information on the affects of open pen fish farms in BC these type of pompous remarks about fish farming and the posters would be a non issue.
BC's wild salmon stocks are in a vulnerable state. By moving fish farms to closed containment, we protect our wild stocks from sea lice, pollutants and other harmful substances that inevitably disseminate from open-net fish farms.
Nice contradiction, gentlemen. Do we need better information or do we have all we need? What were the findings and recommendations in the report? Did Cohen call for closed containment or BC wild salmon were doomed? Did Cohen say that diseases and virus were out of control on BC fish farms?
Seems like Fin couldn't wait for findings and recommendations from Cohen's Final Report. I guess he didn't want to wait for better information. When the Morton mothership spoke I guess he needed to act.
https://openparliament.ca/bills/41-2/C-225/
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You appear surprised or shocked about this certification ... why?
I think things will be changing soon, be prepared to be shocked.
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https://twitter.com/DFO_Pacific/status/678988637179129858
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I think things will be changing soon, be prepared to be shocked.
Well Chris, you’ve made prognostications like this several times before; eventually I suppose you will be proved right on at least one, but not likely for what you want from the fish farming industry. But, carry on, lol ;)
How about you and Eddy Gardner get together and do a bit of drum beating and protesting against the contaminated soil dump issue that might happen right beside the Chehalis River, right in downtown Sto-lo territory. Surely Almo, the savior of wild salmon, would back you on this, no?
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Well Chris, you’ve made prognostications like this several times before; eventually I suppose you will be proved right on at least one, but not likely for what you want from the fish farming industry. But, carry on, lol ;)
How about you and Eddy Gardner get together and do a bit of drum beating and protesting against the contaminated soil dump issue that might happen right beside the Chehalis River, right in downtown Sto-lo territory. Surely Almo, the savior of wild salmon, would back you on this, no?
Get involved, with your knowledge you certainly would be able to get it stopped, let us know how it goes.
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https://youtu.be/QopK-K1LKMw
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Well Chris, you’ve made prognostications like this several times before; eventually I suppose you will be proved right on at least one, but not likely for what you want from the fish farming industry. But, carry on, lol ;)
How about you and Eddy Gardner get together and do a bit of drum beating and protesting against the contaminated soil dump issue that might happen right beside the Chehalis River, right in downtown Sto-lo territory. Surely Almo, the savior of wild salmon, would back you on this, no?
Eddie and the rest of his group seem to be absent from Seabird Island. I wonder why. I thought their "minds were one" so if one person showed up there to protest then the rest would follow. I wonder why many environmentalists that protest fish farms and hazardous material recycling sites steer clear of this? Pfft...they are only pinks, chum and threatened sturgeon anyway.
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Eddie and the rest of his group seem to be absent from Seabird Island. I wonder why. I thought their "minds were one" so if one person showed up there to protest then the rest would follow. I wonder why many environmentalists that protest fish farms and hazardous material recycling sites steer clear of this? Pfft...they are only pinks, chum and threatened sturgeon anyway.
As I said before, maybe you missed it, a person can not tackle every issue that surfaces. I said to Dave a good challenge for him hopefully he will take it on and with your help I am sure you will be successful in stopping this, gosh even Bob may help too, that would make a terrific threesome.
Also Happy New Year and keep your posts coming.
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As I said before, maybe you missed it, a person can not tackle every issue that surfaces. I said to Dave a good challenge for him hopefully he will take it on and with your help I am sure you will be successful in stopping this, gosh even Bob may help too, that would make a terrific threesome.
Also Happy New Year and keep your posts coming.
Perhaps you can answer the simple question of when salmon farming has harmed wild salmon in BC and Washington. You know the one question on the issue that you are zoned into Chris, but seeming unwilling to answer. Happy New to you. :)
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Perhaps you can answer the simple question of when salmon farming has harmed wild salmon in BC and Washington. You know the one question on the issue that you are zoned into Chris, but seeming unwilling to answer. Happy New to you. :)
All will be explained when the Cohen Inquiry is looked into by the new government and the study Dave's friend is conducting along with Kristi Miller, stay tuned. ;D ;D ;D
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All will be explained when the Cohen Inquiry is looked into by the new government and the study Dave's friend is conducting along with Kristi Miller, stay tuned. ;D ;D ;D
And here I thought you already had it figured out with scientific data LOL. No wonder there has not been an answer from you. Do not get too depressed on the outcome of what you think may happen. Feel free to stay tuned. I am here for you hehe. :)
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And here I thought you already had it figured out with scientific data LOL. No wonder there has not been an answer from you. Do not get too depressed on the outcome of what you think may happen. Feel free to stay tuned. I am here for you hehe. :)
We have but whatever we post you and the PAPG always dispute so you will have to wait for the truth from others, stay tuned, over to you now.;D ;D ;D
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I think things will be changing soon, be prepared to be shocked.
Is this what we were supposed to be waiting for, Chris?
http://huffstrategy.com/MediaManager/release/Raincoast-Research-Society/7-1-16/Feared-Atlantic-Farm-Salmon-Virus-Identified-in-British-Columbia/3221.html
http://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-015-0459-1
Kibenge, Morton, and Routledge back with another "shocker"?
Pumped up primer, "non-negative" results coinciding with a lack of clinical disease symptoms?
I, for one, wouldn't be surprised if there was a long-standing presence of some sort of European descent virus considering the millions upon millions of Atlantic salmon and Brown trout stocked in BC over the last hundred years.
I have a feeling this won't net the result Morton et al. are fishing for.
UPDATE
After some further investigation some points make themselves quite clear:
- Kibenge's lab has a history of poor practices regarding cross-contamination
- Their tests are not repeatable
- Fresh moribund farmed Atlantic's WERE tested with clear results documented at the Cohen Commission
- They didn't do any other corroboration to their PCR results using OIE standards available, or have an outside lab confirm
- The press release doesn't match the paper's own findings in its claims
Looks like a case of, "Run it till we see something we like."
[/list][/list][/list]
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This is something I have suspected all along; an endemic non pathogenic strain of ISAv here on the Pacific coast. So what. Interesting the cutthroat sampled from Cultus Lake were perfectly healthy and at the time these fish were sampled I questioned why Chilliwack Lake (a lake with an increasing sockeye population) cutthroat weren't used as a control... Blaming what appears to be an endemic strain of ISAv for the demise of Cultus Lake sockeye is a typical Morton stretch.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_diseases_and_parasites
"It is reported that wild salmon on the west coast of Canada are being driven to extinction by sea lice from nearby salmon farms.[47] Antibiotics and pesticides are often used to control the diseases and parasites."
Bawb won't be impressed until he's knee deep in dead salmon. But I guess he's already seen that at the farm.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_diseases_and_parasites
"It is reported that wild salmon on the west coast of Canada are being driven to extinction by sea lice from nearby salmon farms.[47] Antibiotics and pesticides are often used to control the diseases and parasites."
You seem like relatively bright boy; do you believe this statement?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_diseases_and_parasites
"It is reported that wild salmon on the west coast of Canada are being driven to extinction by sea lice from nearby salmon farms.[47] Antibiotics and pesticides are often used to control the diseases and parasites."
Wikipedia reality - as backed by Morton, Routledge, Krkosek, and Volpe.
Why am I not surprised.
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While we're on the topic of fish virology, here's some new stuff on PRV: http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/26983/study-finds-piscine-orthoreovirus-not-linked-to-hsmi/
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Wikipedia reality - as backed by Morton, Routledge, Krkosek, and Volpe.
Why am I not surprised.
And how do you dispute this?
I have been following this work for many years. ISA virus is a serious matter,' says Dr. Daniel Pauly, one of the world’s leading fisheries scientists, based at the University of British Columbia (UBC). 'A member of the influenza family in open ocean feedlots is a risk Canada should not be taking on the west coast.'"
I think Dr. Pauly knows more than all of us that post here but I am sure the PAPG will find some fault in this scientist.
It always amazes many of us that oppose FF in our oceans are always hearing from those that favor them stating everything rosie and we have nothing to worry about. ::)
Of course most that say that I suppose have some invested interest in them but that is hard to prove as they hid behind some pseudonym name except Dave.
My name is always out there, on this forum anyway. ;D ;D ;D
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While we're on the topic of fish virology, here's some new stuff on PRV: http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/26983/study-finds-piscine-orthoreovirus-not-linked-to-hsmi/
Dr Diane Morrison (DVM), Marine Harvest’s Director of Fish Health and Food Safety, was one of the eight authors of the study.
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A local story on this breaking news story.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
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A local story on this breaking news story.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
I expected better from Jennifer, and really wonder who passed this on to her. Chris, do you understand the words endemic and non pathogenic? Do you understand the difference between ISAv and ISA, the disease?
Make what you will of this but trust me, you and all those who think this is a smoking gun are going to be embarrassed, again.
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I expected better from Jennifer, and really wonder who passed this on to her. Chris, do you understand the words endemic and non pathogenic? Do you understand the difference between ISAv and ISA, the disease?
Make what you will of this but trust me, you and all those who think this is a smoking gun are going to be embarrassed, again.
I knew you would say that, I am sure you will be writing a letter to the editor correcting the errors as you see them. We will be watching next Monday's paper for it.
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All that trash you posted on the video is all selfish trash not salmon farm trash!
Don't worry Chris as new research results are released you and your anti crew will have plenty to pat each other backs over even if the outcomes are not in your favour. Watch for creative reporting by anti salmon farming activists much like the work in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqDP8SnPVA0
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And how do you dispute this?
I have been following this work for many years. ISA virus is a serious matter,' says Dr. Daniel Pauly, one of the world’s leading fisheries scientists, based at the University of British Columbia (UBC). 'A member of the influenza family in open ocean feedlots is a risk Canada should not be taking on the west coast.'"
I think Dr. Pauly knows more than all of us that post here but I am sure the PAPG will find some fault in this scientist.
Just because Pauly has a PhD doesn't mean he is above being questioned, Chris. In this case, the facts are very, very clear. He knows it, I know it and everyone that deals with wild salmon on a professional level knows it - there has been no confirmed cases of ISA in wild salmon and farmed salmon tested here in BC. This was dealt with at great length during the Cohen Inquiry where even the panel of experts on this (including Dr. Kibenge) all agreed that there had been no confirmed cases of ISA in ANY of the Pacific salmon tested by the time of the ISA hearings back in December 2011. Thousands of Atlantic salmon tested on BC fish farms were not positive of ISAv (this was an exhibit presented during the inquiry). Read Cohen Volume 2.
A few years later, 2 years of viral surveillance work done by the Canadian and US governments did not find ISA or ISAv in wild salmon tested. This includes hundreds of fish from the interior and the coast. However, as Dr. Nylund (a world renowned expert on ISA) said during the Cohen Inquiry, if ISA is going to rear its ugly head it will be on fish farms first. ISA is lethal to Atlantic Salmon. If it is on farms here it won't just kill a few farmed fish, but thousands. Not unlike the Chilean examples critics such as yourself frequently bring up here and in the media. Fact is that we haven't seen any fish kills of that nature on BC fish farms as a result of ISA. Fish hatched from eggs imported from other areas before were quarantined before release and nowadays farms here use their own broodstock for eggs (CK can correct me if he needs to). Scientists like Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders found that during her retro analysis of preserved samples of wild salmon that it is quite likely that the ISAv-like virus she was seeing was around our waters before salmon farming began. I realize that they can be very uncomfortable given how much time you have invested in this, but do you honestly feel more comfortable with speculation being your guidance here? By all means be critical of government or industry, but at the end of the day you should look at what people like Morton are saying and think for yourself if it really all makes sense.
I agree with Dave that is it quite possible that a virus similar to non-virulent strain or different variant of ISAv has existed off our coast for a long, long time and we haven't really noticed it until recently because most of this sampling in the past has been done on cultured fish - not wild fish. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was brought here by aquaculture.
So, while Dr. Pauly is correct that ISA is a serious matter it needs to be balanced with relevant evidence to date here. You also have to look at the farms and see if you are seeing these massive fish kills as a result of ISA. To just say that ISA is a serious matter and implying that wild salmon are in grave danger because of it without providing some context around that is not responsible, in my opinion. Instead of seeing this as "picking apart" start looking into this more because the information is there if you choose to look for it. This is not solely coming from industry as you can see with the latest PRV study. I have not interest in leading you astray on this, but I am not going to nod my head in unison and say that diseases on fish farms are running rampant, devastating wild salmon when the evidence to date does not show that. You and many other fish farm critics seem to be hung up on "risk" and then erroneously extrapolating that as "reality" based on speculation.
It always amazes many of us that oppose FF in our oceans are always hearing from those that favor them stating everything rosie and we have nothing to worry about. ::)
That's not true, but I accept that as your interpretation. What many of have been saying is that these issues are likely more involved with many factors working together. To beat up fish farms over wild salmon numbers is spinning tires after awhile. Although Cohen said that fish farms can pose a risk, he didn't find the doom and gloom that many critics were claiming. Many of us look at the large abundances of Pink salmon in the North Pacific and wonder why. Many of us look at this abnormally warm water blob off our coast and want to know more about it's implications on wild salmon survival in the marine environment. Do you ever question Morton's theories or do you just take them at face value?
Of course most that say that I suppose have some invested interest in them but that is hard to prove as they hid behind some pseudonym name except Dave.
My name is always out there, on this forum anyway. ;D ;D ;D
Yes, anyone with an opinion counter to yours must have a vested interest in fish farming. That's so old and stale, Chris...lol. Maybe some of us chose to look into these issues a bit more and question the source.
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A local story on this breaking news story.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
A variant of ISAv....ISAv sequences. Isn't that what Dr. Miller found also. What was her take on the variant she found in her samples? Why didn't her findings make it into the article, but information from Routledge's samples back in 2011 did? Miller suggested that the virus variant she was finding mostly likely was off our coast for a long time perhaps even before salmon farming began here, but there is no reference to this anywhere in the report.
What is the origin of these tested market Atlantic salmon? The "market" is not the origin. Are we to assume they are from BC?
No mention of the retesting of those samples from Cultus Lake as described during the inquiry. Here are the facts missing from the article and the report.
Dr. Frederick Kibenge testified that there was “clearly a positive amplification of ISA virus in those samples.” However, he also said that for Cultus Lake sockeye the product obtained was not a match for ISAv. Indeed, in an email from Dr. Molly Kibenge to Dr. Jones, she says that
“the sockeye clone sequences show homology to short sequences of human, mouse, rat, and zebrafish clones.” Dr. Jones said this indicated
that the PCR results for the Cultus Lake fish were false positives.
Dr. Jones said that, in October 2003, they decided to get another opinion on Dr. Molly Kibenge’s results, so they sent 20 blind samples of Chinook salmon (10 that were positive in Dr. Molly Kibenge’s results, and 10 that were negative) to the laboratory of Dr. Frederick Kibenge at the AVC. Dr. Frederick Kibenge was able to confirm that six samples were positive; however, three of these were in Dr. Molly Kibenge’s negative samples and three were in her positive samples. Dr. Jones said that he, Dr. Molly Kibenge, Dr. Dorothy Kieser, and Dr. Garth Traxler
decided to send samples to Ms. Gagné’s laboratory at DFO Moncton for further testing. Ms. Gagné testified that, in 2004, she received
93 samples from Dr. Molly Kibenge and tested them for ISAv using the same primers and kits that Dr. Molly Kibenge had used, with “minor differences at some points.” Ms. Gagné was unable to find positives in the samples. Further, Ms. Gagné testified that in the fall of 2011, she re-tested backup tissues she had kept from Dr. Molly Kibenge’s samples, using the validated real-time RT-PCR assay developed at DFO Moncton, as well as the Snow segment 8 primers. All those tests were negative.
Dr. Jones testified that shortly after Ms. Gagné tested the samples in 2004, Dr. Molly Kibenge left PBS and went back to AVC. - Justice Cohen; Cohen Final Report; Vol. 1; Ch. 9; pg. 458
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Dr Diane Morrison (DVM), Marine Harvest’s Director of Fish Health and Food Safety, was one of the eight authors of the study.
Alexandra Morton was one of the authors in the study you posted.
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While we're on the topic of fish virology, here's some new stuff on PRV: http://www.thefishsite.com/fishnews/26983/study-finds-piscine-orthoreovirus-not-linked-to-hsmi/
Similar to Miller, Dr. Garver is another scientist Alexandra Morton loves to quote, but when they diverge from her message you don't see them quoted anymore.
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Thanks for taking the time for these posts. I hope you along with Dave will take the time to write a letter to the Chilliwack Progress explaining to the public your response to the story.
As very few read this thread it would be good for others in our area to see the other side of this topic from you 2 that have so much information on how we have nothing to fear from FF.
Send your letter to this address. editor-Chilliwack Progress <editor@theprogress.com>
Looking forward to it. Happy New Year and good fishing.
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Dave's response to the Chilliwack Progress might get posted, but they are not going to post long winded diatribes that some people like to post on here. :o ;D
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Dave's response to the Chilliwack Progress might get posted, but they are not going to post long winded diatribes that some people like to post on here. :o ;D
Right on, a letter needs to be concise and to the point.
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The bug hunt is back LOL. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/fish-virus-deja-vu-the-hunt-for-isav/
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You guy's should start a facebook page. ::) Help you post some buggy information beyond this site.
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You guy's should start a facebook page. ::) Help you post some buggy information beyond this site.
If you were not so selective on what you want to hear, you would notice those sites already exist. I know how much you like to hear about Mortons family TB. This one stays a classic:)
http://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
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Why would I want to know about Mortons family? You got a case of Mortonitis and it's making you itchy to keep mentioning her? Maybe you got the hots for her but I don't buddy.
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Why would I want to know about Mortons family? You got a case of Mortonitis and it's making you itchy to keep mentioning her? Maybe you got the hots for her but I don't buddy.
The bunk you like to hear does not fall far from the tree. Just saying dude. :)
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If your hearing things go get help. You meant to say bug I think? The bug you hear came from the tree.
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Something positive on sockeye salmon, pleasing viewing for a Friday afternoon. http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/blogs/scientist-captures-amazing-aerials-massive-alaskan-sockeye-salmon-run
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Dave's response to the Chilliwack Progress might get posted, but they are not going to post long winded diatribes that some people like to post on here. :o ;D
Feeling a little left out? Kind of happens when you turn to Wikipedia for your information. That was funny.
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Thanks for taking the time for these posts. I hope you along with Dave will take the time to write a letter to the Chilliwack Progress explaining to the public your response to the story.
As very few read this thread it would be good for others in our area to see the other side of this topic from you 2 that have so much information on how we have nothing to fear from FF.
Send your letter to this address. editor-Chilliwack Progress <editor@theprogress.com>
Looking forward to it. Happy New Year and good fishing.
Thanks for the suggestion but considering the freedoms and rights we enjoy in this country I imagine Dave and I would like to exercise those - not unlike what you do when you dodge recent questions from Bob. Some of us post on here not for the high number of members but rather for the fair and diligent moderation that discourages bullying, intimidation and personal attacks. I could care less if there are 10 members or 10,000 members on here. I could care less if these posts that we do on here don't make it out to the general public. For some of us at least, this is sort of like having a bunch of guys (or gals) that meet up at a certain place during the day in a moderated forum to discuss fishing or topics related to fisheries like this particular one - where the topics are the issues not the poster. If you are uncomfortable about what people like me and Dave post on this board then why don't you start up your own blog where you can censor what is being posted so that your message is the only one being heard. Morton and other farm critics like Dennis Reid already do this.
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At my age I donot get uncomfortable about very much these days but maybe my aching body at times. :P
And yes meeting places like the 'Long Table' here in Chilliwack that Dave attends has its fair share of discussions on FF.
Hope you have a good weekend and thanks for continuing for posting on this topic.
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Even the weather network is carrying the story. http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/scientists-claim-most-feared-salmon-virus-detected-in-bc--/62074/
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And more. http://www.straight.com/news/610611/grand-chief-stewart-phillip-calls-independent-first-nations-testing-fish-farms
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http://discoverynewvariantisav.typepad.com/
"When accidentally introduced to Chile from Norway in Atlantic salmon eggs, the ISA virus lay dormant for many years without an outbreak. Then in 2007, a highly virulent strain appeared, HPR7b, that killed so many farmed salmon it cost the Chilean salmon farming industry $2b in damages. Chile has not successfully eradicated European-strain ISA virus. Chile does not have wild salmon and so impact was confined to the salmon farming industry."
Won't happen hear according to the resident experts.
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Another who doesn't believe it ...
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/BCSFA_ISA_Statement_January82016_F2.pdf
But Dr. Gary Marty is a paid shill, right?
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2015/07/10/Compensation-From-Fish-Farms/
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As shuswapsteve mentioned, one of the big questions regarding this new ISAv report is the origin of the store bought Atlantic salmon. For example, Costco imports all it’s Atlantics from Chile and Norway; most BC Atlantics are exported to the US, so for any of these samples to have relevance to BC we must know the source … and interestingly, and probably the most damning as far as credibility goes, the report does not mention that.
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This story is spreading like FF lice and other diseases. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2016/01/most-feared-salmon-virus-has-arrived-in-bc-waters/#.VpHT1k-VHAn
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Some more reading. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675643/
If you donot want to read it all here is the conclusion.
Salmon lice are natural parasites on salmonids in the sea water with a circumpolar distribution in the northern Hemisphere. The populations in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans are genetically distinct. Intensive salmon farming has improved the conditions for the growth and transmission of the parasites compared with natural conditions. Gene flow among populations appears high and most likely results from association with highly migratory hosts. There are distinct differences in the susceptibility to salmon lice infections among salmonid fish species.
Salmon recreational fishery, commercial fishery (sea fishery) and aquaculture have different stakeholders, practices, traditions and management objectives and strategies (Liu, Olaussen & Skonhoft 2011). Sea lice have clearly impacted wild salmon and trout fisheries without compensating for the imposed negative external costs. The quantitative estimates of these impacts show large variations. Further research is needed in order to understand the mechanisms and processes. The density of farms in an area has a clear effect on the levels of sea lice at individual farms within that area.
Since the start of large-scale salmon farming in the 1970s, control of salmon lice has been based mainly on chemotherapy. This has been effective and simple to use, but also creates unwanted environmental effects, occupational hazards and drug resistance problems. During the last few years, there has been a trend towards a more integrated management approach with synchronized treatments, biological control (cleaner fish), immunological interference (immunostimulants), mechanical de-lousing systems, selective breeding for louse-resistant salmon and regulatory approaches (zones with synchronized production and fallowing).
Sea lice resistance to chemotherapeutants is a serious concern. In Norway, Scotland, Ireland and eastern Canada, the number of salmon in farms greatly exceeds the number of wild salmon. Thus, the main sources of re-infestation are the farms themselves, where regular parasite treatments place constant selection pressure on resistance development. New chemicals may only be valuable for a limited period of time. Management practices with a variety of methods will be necessary to keep the sea lice under control in salmon farms.
Two published studies tested vaccine candidate antigens against salmon lice, which resulted in a reduced infection rate (Grayson et al. 1995; Carpio et al. 2011). For parasites like salmon lice that do not proliferate on or in the host, a vaccine will primarily reduce infection pressure. Salmon lice create problems for both the salmon farming industry and, under certain conditions, wild salmonids. A vaccine will probably not be adequate as a stand-alone treatment, but it would be a valuable element in the hierarchy of salmon lice prevention methods.
For the foreseeable future, salmon lice will continue to be a serious problem for the salmon farming industry and a threat to their environmental credibility. Salmon farmers invest in expensive sea lice monitoring and treatment programmes. The key to a sustainable production is to integrate several management practices. This will require a substantial increase in research in areas such as new pharmaceuticals, mechanical lice removal, vaccines and immunostimulants, selective breeding for increased resistance, effective aquaculture production and use of cleaner fish, and the development of coastal hydrographic models to estimate transmission dynamics and to support farm siting decisions and coordinated management.
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This story is spreading like FF lice and other diseases. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2016/01/most-feared-salmon-virus-has-arrived-in-bc-waters/#.VpHT1k-VHAn
Yeah, that's how fear mongering works, Chris. Some folks take some information and then slowly add to it, maybe even tweak it a bit, so that after awhile it's a full blown epidemic that is devastating wild salmon and needs to be contained. Did you ever wonder why the authors of the study did not get any samples from US waters and aquaculture operations? Do you wonder why Molly Kibenge's 2004 ISAv tests on Cultus Lake Sockeye were unpublished and why the authors do not say why? Somehow Molly Kibenge's unpublished results during the Cohen Inquiry are mentioned in the study and the press release, but Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunder's unpublished results during the Cohen Inquiry in regards to her retro-analysis work are absent. Miller's name is not mentioned anywhere in the study. Rock Bottom reporting at it's finest.
Kind of strange how the latest study on PRV didn't get any coverage. It was not even mentioned on Alexandra Morton's blog or Facebook page? I guess if the desired result is not met then it isn't worth reporting. Strange how you get a hold of all these other studies and post them here, but this one about the second most controversial virus in BC (well...according to fish farm critics anyway) seemed to fall through the cracks.
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Some more reading. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675643/
If you donot want to read it all here is the conclusion.
Salmon lice are natural parasites on salmonids in the sea water with a circumpolar distribution in the northern Hemisphere. The populations in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans are genetically distinct. Intensive salmon farming has improved the conditions for the growth and transmission of the parasites compared with natural conditions. Gene flow among populations appears high and most likely results from association with highly migratory hosts. There are distinct differences in the susceptibility to salmon lice infections among salmonid fish species.
Salmon recreational fishery, commercial fishery (sea fishery) and aquaculture have different stakeholders, practices, traditions and management objectives and strategies (Liu, Olaussen & Skonhoft 2011). Sea lice have clearly impacted wild salmon and trout fisheries without compensating for the imposed negative external costs. The quantitative estimates of these impacts show large variations. Further research is needed in order to understand the mechanisms and processes. The density of farms in an area has a clear effect on the levels of sea lice at individual farms within that area.
Since the start of large-scale salmon farming in the 1970s, control of salmon lice has been based mainly on chemotherapy. This has been effective and simple to use, but also creates unwanted environmental effects, occupational hazards and drug resistance problems. During the last few years, there has been a trend towards a more integrated management approach with synchronized treatments, biological control (cleaner fish), immunological interference (immunostimulants), mechanical de-lousing systems, selective breeding for louse-resistant salmon and regulatory approaches (zones with synchronized production and fallowing).
Sea lice resistance to chemotherapeutants is a serious concern. In Norway, Scotland, Ireland and eastern Canada, the number of salmon in farms greatly exceeds the number of wild salmon. Thus, the main sources of re-infestation are the farms themselves, where regular parasite treatments place constant selection pressure on resistance development. New chemicals may only be valuable for a limited period of time. Management practices with a variety of methods will be necessary to keep the sea lice under control in salmon farms.
Two published studies tested vaccine candidate antigens against salmon lice, which resulted in a reduced infection rate (Grayson et al. 1995; Carpio et al. 2011). For parasites like salmon lice that do not proliferate on or in the host, a vaccine will primarily reduce infection pressure. Salmon lice create problems for both the salmon farming industry and, under certain conditions, wild salmonids. A vaccine will probably not be adequate as a stand-alone treatment, but it would be a valuable element in the hierarchy of salmon lice prevention methods.
For the foreseeable future, salmon lice will continue to be a serious problem for the salmon farming industry and a threat to their environmental credibility. Salmon farmers invest in expensive sea lice monitoring and treatment programmes. The key to a sustainable production is to integrate several management practices. This will require a substantial increase in research in areas such as new pharmaceuticals, mechanical lice removal, vaccines and immunostimulants, selective breeding for increased resistance, effective aquaculture production and use of cleaner fish, and the development of coastal hydrographic models to estimate transmission dynamics and to support farm siting decisions and coordinated management.
Good post. Any paper authored or co authored by Simon Jones is worth reading.
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That ISA paper was by far the most messed up formatting I have read...I understand each journal has their own requirements, but come on. General order is Abstract-intro-methods-results-discussion-conclusion, that thing was all over the map!
Not being a geneticists I am unable to comment on the rest of it, but I am wondering about the journal's credibility itself.
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More, this time from the Squamish Chief, the coverage continues. ;D ;D http://www.squamishchief.com/news/local-news/study-finds-virus-in-salmon-1.2147623
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http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/
It is hard to believe that this day would ever come, having watched the multi-billion dollar Marine Harvest, Cermaq and Grieg Seafood, simply push their way into all the pristine oceans on earth and soil them for so long, to finally say, and they will no doubt not agree, but that the world is on the tipping point, even though it will take these companies a decade of death throws to die or change, that the beginning of the end for in-ocean fish farms has finally come.
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http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/
Hmmmmm, fish farm news and science eh. Oh its a blog by DC reid, has 16 members, and a messages that says "Followers - Please Use Your Real Names, Particularly Marine Harvest, Cermaq Mainstream, Grieg".
The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them.
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That ISA paper was by far the most messed up formatting I have read...I understand each journal has their own requirements, but come on. General order is Abstract-intro-methods-results-discussion-conclusion, that thing was all over the map!
Not being a geneticists I am unable to comment on the rest of it, but I am wondering about the journal's credibility itself.
Good to read at least a few others have the ability to think for themselves and to question this report and how it was published.
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The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them.
Funny how the antis never mention PRV now isn't it, lol! Mind you, most of them don't even know what we're talking about.
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Hmmmmm, fish farm news and science eh. Oh its a blog by DC reid, has 16 members, and a messages that says "Followers - Please Use Your Real Names, Particularly Marine Harvest, Cermaq Mainstream, Grieg".
The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them.
Well look at some of the childish goofiness on pro fish farm sites.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/07/sea-lice-study-adds-to-manufactured-body-of-evidence/
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Here is today's updated online Chilliwack Progress story on the reported ISAv found in Cultus Lake cutthroat trout. Kudos to the reporter, Jennifer Feinberg, for re writing this and not publishing in hard copy the original story last Friday.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
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Every day it seems another paper jumps on this latest news which of course is understandable.http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/food/world-s-most-feared-salmon-virus-found-in-canadian-waters/article/454287
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Every day it seems another paper jumps on this latest news which of course is understandable.http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/food/world-s-most-feared-salmon-virus-found-in-canadian-waters/article/454287
Keep pounding the table Chris. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/fish-virus-deja-vu-the-hunt-for-isav/
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Keep pounding the table Chris. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/fish-virus-deja-vu-the-hunt-for-isav/
You bet and thanks for the link, now we may know some of the names of the posters on this thread and who they work for.. ;D ;D ;D
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You bet and thanks for the link, now we may know some of the names of the posters on this thread and who they work for.. ;D ;D ;D
You can start off by telling us what Doc Morton has got right and who she works for, along with an answer to when has Atlantic salmon farming in Washington or BC harmed wild salmon?
Old news but really nothing new.
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/12/09/if-theyre-not-detecting-isa-what-are-they-detecting/
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You bet and thanks for the link, now we may know some of the names of the posters on this thread and who they work for.. ;D ;D ;D
So who didn't you know, and who do they work for?
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Every day it seems another paper jumps on this latest news which of course is understandable.http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/food/world-s-most-feared-salmon-virus-found-in-canadian-waters/article/454287
More bad reporting....."Based on a study of farm-raised salmon, a European variant of a deadly disease called infectious salmon anemia virus (ISAV) has now arrived in British Columbia." A virus is different from a disease. Sigh...
No mention that these authors did find the whole virus - only fragments.
No mention of the lack of repeatability of the results.
No mention that these results were based on PCR alone and why OIE standards for disease confirmation were not used.
No mention of why no other labs were used to confirm these results.
No mention of why Routledge's samples in 2011 didn't make the grade.
No mention where the farmed samples in this study came from?
No mention why samples were not taken from US waters.
No mention of the facts behind Molly Kibenge's samples from 2004 as described in detail in the Cohen Final Report. Like why some of the samples that were once negative in Molly's work came up as positive in husband's lab.
No mention that none of the fish in this study did not show any clinical signs of ISA. Not to mention no farmed fish in BC have ever showed signs of ISA following the testing of thousands of samples of farmed fish.
No mention of Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders work and what she said during the Cohen Inquiry about ISAv.
Back to you, Chris.
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Don't expect much Steve ;D
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Here is today's updated online Chilliwack Progress story on the reported ISAv found in Cultus Lake cutthroat trout. Kudos to the reporter, Jennifer Feinberg, for re writing this and not publishing in hard copy the original story last Friday.
http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
Kudos to you, Dave. However, unfortunately, for every one reporter that gets it right there are many more that do not as we have seen already here. Morton will likely call the Progress a fish farm industry apologist now. Don't go against the mothership!
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steve, just out of curiosity, are you Sal Nam from flybc? you guys have similar writing styles. tone seems a bit different though
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Haha :D I'll answer for him .... no
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Don't expect much Steve ;D
I am still here more ground shaking news to come. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.conservationcouncil.ca/fish-farm-biosecurity-inadequate-to-protect-wild-salmon/
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Media Advisory
Rally - Ocean Fish Farms – Ticking Virus Bombs?
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2016
Place: DFO Office, 401 Pender Street, Vancouver
Time: 11:00 am
A rally will be held at the Department of Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard office this Thursday to raise public awareness about the danger fish farms pose to wild salmon, the diverse economy and biodiversity it supports. With long overdue action on the Cohen Commission, the aggressive intent of the ocean fish farm industry to expand, and new scientific evidence the ISA virus is in BC waters, there is no time to waste.
“It is extremely urgent for the Liberal government to meet with scientists publishing on the ISA virus, and the First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance (FNWSA) to avoid the unimaginable – the loss wild salmon due to viruses such as ISA,” stated Jim Hobart, Chief of the Spuzzum First Nation, and member of the FNWSA. “The fish farm industry approach of attacking the peer-reviewed science only emphasizes the need for immediate open and transparent virus testing of farmed salmon in those open-net pens,” added Chief Hobart.
“We are all in favor of long overdue testing of ocean farmed salmon, but what is also required is an immediate stop to any expansion of open-net pen farms on migration routes of wild salmon, insisted Chief Michelle Lee Edwards of Sekw’el’wes First Nation in Lillooet.
Wild Salmon Defenders are mobilizing to be at the site for the rally with signs, banners, drummers and singers and statements from stakeholders.
Eddie Gardner, Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance Coordinator
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Media Advisory
Rally - Ocean Fish Farms – Ticking Virus Bombs?
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2016
Place: DFO Office, 401 Pender Street, Vancouver
Time: 11:00 am
“It is extremely urgent for the Liberal government to meet with scientists publishing on the ISA virus,
Eddie Gardner, Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance Coordinator
Thats interesting that they only want government to meet with a particular group of scientists. How about meeting with a panel of experts. Nah, that wouldn't work to so well with this group of protesters.
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Thats interesting that they only want government to meet with a particular group of scientists. How about meeting with a panel of experts. Nah, that wouldn't work to so well with this group of protesters.
Hope you are able to go Thursday and talk first hand to the protesters.
In the meantime.
http://news.yahoo.com/researchers-detect-devastating-virus-farmed-salmon-190251883.html
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Hey chris,
Since you are in the story writing business how does this work. I see that the same story is posted over and over by different agencys since you post them every time a story is repeated. Does one person write the story and then sell it to the other media outlets? How much does a story sell for? could a story such as the one above be paid for by an outside organization and posted as a story?
Just wondering since we always seem to see textbook examples of this from this thread from you.
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I am still here more ground shaking news to come. ;D ;D ;D
Hahahahahaha!
Wait, you're serious...
I'm having a hard time watching media spin speculative nonsense from a press release regarding a paper that specifically reported non-results in its findings.
No virus.
No disease.
All BS.
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Hey chris,
Since you are in the story writing business how does this work. I see that the same story is posted over and over by different agencys since you post them every time a story is repeated. Does one person write the story and then sell it to the other media outlets? How much does a story sell for? could a story such as the one above be paid for by an outside organization and posted as a story?
Just wondering since we always seem to see textbook examples of this from this thread from you.
Every news outlet be it print, radio or TV news monitor what others are writing or airing, you may get the same story with a different slant on it of course. When I freelanced for Global news I was told by another TV station they watched all the other stations news broadcasts, a very competitive business.
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Hahahahahaha!
Wait, you're serious...
I'm having a hard time watching media spin speculative nonsense from a press release regarding a paper that specifically reported non-results in its findings.
No virus.
No disease.
All BS.
Keeping you on your toes and keeping you happy too. :D :D :D
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Every news outlet be it print, radio or TV news monitor what others are writing or airing, you may get the same story with a different slant on it of course. When I freelanced for Global news I was told by another TV station they watched all the other stations news broadcasts, a very competitive business.
So competitive that they are willing to publish half truths and misinformation.
Could you answer these questions a bit more directly?
Does one person write the story and then sell it to the other media outlets?
Could a story such as the one above be paid for by an outside organization and posted as a story?
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Keeping you on your toes and keeping you happy too. :D :D :D
Chris,
The anti-aquaculture mentality is like a tornado that keeps you aloft in a dizzy, repetitive blur.
As soon as you stick your head out of the echo-chamber and question even one little part of the poorly stitched quilt of BS people like Morton have crafted - you will be whisked out of the current and land softly back in the real world.
If you are comfortable being carried along by the emotional rhetoric so fondly embraced by the sacred crowd, I guess I can't really do anything about that - but, if you and the rest of the crew insist on chirping nonsense wrapped in pseudoscience from within the vortex I feel obligated to respond with the sunlight of reality.
I am really wondering how long anti-aquaculture activists can cry wolf before the people they are trying to convert outside any given supermarket on any given Sunday just tell them to F- off like they would any sign-waving member of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Sorry not sorry, have a nice day. ;)
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So competitive that they are willing to publish half truths and misinformation.
Could you answer these questions a bit more directly?
Does one person write the story and then sell it to the other media outlets?
Could a story such as the one above be paid for by an outside organization and posted as a story?
Do not know, sorry.
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2016/01/12/alleged-findings-of-isa-in-bc-salmon-will-not-spur-testing-changes/
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Interesting statement in the post above.
The claim that there is risk of ISA in BC, Dunn said, is a grave one.
"ISA is very serious, [it's] an internationally reportable disease. If you detect ISA there are legislative and legal steps that you need to follow…there are hundreds if not thousands of tests on salmon in British Colombia…on a regular basis to ensure that there is no ISA. This is one of few farming regions that has not contracted ISA, and that’s incredibly important to the industry.”
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Chris, he's talking about ISA the disease, not the virus. Even Morton says they have no evidence of finding the disease. Try to keep up if you are going to post this stuff...
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Chris, he's talking about ISA the disease, not the virus. Even Morton says they have no evidence of finding the disease. Try to keep up if you are going to post this stuff...
Something you may wish to listen too from, On The Coast on CBC. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/programs/onthecoast/evidence-of-a-deadly-salmon-virus-found-in-b-c-waters-study-suggests-1.3397827
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"ISA claims Rubbished"
http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/isa-claims-rubbished/
"They also say that their own tests could not be duplicated and have not been confirmed by accepted international tests, and no disease was present. Moreover, the authors admit that “All virus isolation attempts on the samples were negative, and thus the samples were considered ‘negative’…”
"Furthermore, whether intentional or not, the authors blatantly lie about the facts. They state in the conclusion of the paper that the CFIA completed two years of ISAv surveillance in BC, but they did not test Atlantic farmed salmon…”
Morton repeats the lie on CBC.
They must have used the same primer to crank out the press release and speaking points as they used in the PCR testing...
It's craptastic science.
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"ISA claims Rubbished"
http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/isa-claims-rubbished/
"They also say that their own tests could not be duplicated and have not been confirmed by accepted international tests, and no disease was present. Moreover, the authors admit that “All virus isolation attempts on the samples were negative, and thus the samples were considered ‘negative’…”
"Furthermore, whether intentional or not, the authors blatantly lie about the facts. They state in the conclusion of the paper that the CFIA completed two years of ISAv surveillance in BC, but they did not test Atlantic farmed salmon…”
Morton repeats the lie on CBC.
They must have used the same primer to crank out the press release and speaking points as they used in the PCR testing...
It's craptastic science.
Thanks for the link.
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Love how the Salmon Farmer rep in the CBC interview admitted that the virus was present but according to them had not caused any negative outcomes in their fish.
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At least American born Doc Morton has stayed true to her fable form. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/2011/11/09/the-american-salmon-conspiracy/
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Love how the Salmon Farmer rep in the CBC interview admitted that the virus was present but according to them had not caused any negative outcomes in their fish.
You mean the part where he clearly stated CFIA and OIE standard tests (which have been run in the thousands) have never shown the virus to be present in BC and where he expressed the fact that farmed salmon in BC have never shown any clinical signs of the disease or have experienced any mortality - and then Morton states right after that the CFIA is not testing farmed Atlantic salmon?
Like I said earlier, if you even lift your head slightly out of the BS vortex and, quite literally, question ANY of the things Morton says, you will quickly and effortlessly be transported back to scientifically supported reality.
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This one's got me particularly fired up, due to the remarkable disconnect between the actual study, the press release, and the resulting media response.
The stupid has been doubled down upon, and it burns.
Oh, how it burns.
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Hang in there CK ;) Eventually, when farmed and wild salmon are found to be perfectly healthy people will realize this is just another in a long list of fails by our favorite activist.
The sooner the Miller-Saunders/Riddell disease work is made public the better.
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Hang in there CK ;) Eventually, when farmed and wild salmon are found to be perfectly healthy people will realize this is just another in a long list of fails by our favorite activist.
The sooner the Miller-Saunders/Riddell disease work is made public the better.
It's painful fielding questions from friends and co-workers on this one.
"How did they get through peer review if they couldn't verify the chain of custody on the farmed fish they bought at the stores?"
"How did they manage to write a press release that completely misrepresented the findings in the paper and have the media jump on it?"
"Why didn't they do something that could be repeated or confirmed using another method?"
Painful I say.
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CK, I have to wonder how much time and money American born Morton has cost taxpaying Canadians? I truly believe the Cohen fiasco was a knee jerk reaction from Ottawa mainly brought about by her, and the opportunity to buy a few votes out west .. the money that cost us ($30 M), the time spent by people like yourself answering questions when you have more important issues, the media frenzy she has created, the public relations cost to BC's salmon farming industry, the loss of jobs and credibility to FN who are gullible enough to buy into her story ... it just keeps piling up. As far as I can see and read she does nothing for wild salmon, other than advocate we eat them.
And who or what is the biggest benefactor from all this? ... Alaskan fishing interests. Oh wow, now I'm like Chris talking conspiracy ;D
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CK, I have to wonder how much time and money American born Morton has cost taxpaying Canadians? I truly believe the Cohen fiasco was a knee jerk reaction from Ottawa mainly brought about by her, and the opportunity to buy a few votes out west .. the money that cost us ($30 M), the time spent by people like yourself answering questions when you have more important issues, the media frenzy she has created, the public relations cost to BC's salmon farming industry, the loss of jobs and credibility to FN who are gullible enough to buy into her story ... it just keeps piling up. As far as I can see and read she does nothing for wild salmon, other than advocate we eat them.
And who or what is the biggest benefactor from all this? ... Alaskan fishing interests. Oh wow, now I'm like Chris talking conspiracy ;D
;D ;D ;D. It has cost me a lot of MY own money and time too but that is my own choice as I am just a volunteer doing my best for the environment and the fish.
The day the pens are out of the ocean and on land we can all relax but then I will miss this thread and all the chaps that post here, well there still is Sports Chat to discuss with FA about the Canucks and the mighty Leafs that continue going upstream towards the Cup. ;D ;D ;D
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So when have farmed salmon in Washington and BC harmed wild salmon Chris?
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;D ;D ;D. It has cost me a lot of MY own money and time too but that is my own choice as I am just a volunteer doing my best for the environment and the fish.
It's OK to not like salmon aquaculture.
It's not OK to make stuff up when you're trying to argue against it.
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So when have farmed salmon in Washington and BC harmed wild salmon Chris?
I found some interesting reading here, and I see there was concerns expressed, need to read it again to get more out of it.
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BCSFA_Workshop_Final_Report.pdf
Also did Dr Marty work at one time for FF's? Most likely no one here would know.
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http://youtu.be/vSSgP7T54gs
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I found some interesting reading here, and I see there was concerns expressed, need to read it again to get more out of it.
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BCSFA_Workshop_Final_Report.pdf
Also did Dr Marty work at one time for FF's? Most likely no one here would know.
"Dr. Marty is a board-certified veterinary pathologist with a Master's degree in Fisheries Biology and a Ph.D. in Comparative Pathology. For the past 9 years he has served as the fish pathologist for the BC Ministry of Agriculture's veterinary diagnostic laboratory. He has over 50 peer-reviewed scientific publications, including results from a 13-year study investigating the role of disease in a marine fish population in Alaska after the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Over the past several years he has been very active in public education regarding matters of fish health."
Am I to assume that those qualifications would be disregarded if he happened to have worked in the aquaculture industry at one point?
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if he ever has.
Just for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
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Thanks for this, was just checking as I was told he did at one time. Just wanted to clear that up if you knew.
Have a good week.
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From Alex this morning, will this happen?
Dear Salmon Farmers:
Making defamatory statements about me is not helpful. I invite you, once again, to debate me in public. I think ISA virus is in BC, you don't. Let me go to your farms escorted by local First Nations to select the best samples for testing, and distribute the samples among the government labs that have also detected ISAV and Gary Marty - and then lets hold a public round table and decide what the next steps are.
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"Marty has never worked for any fish farm company in Canada; in the United States, he consulted for the industry in 2000 and 2001. Since 2004, Marty has analyzed fish-farm samples for the British Columbia provincial government, which is sometimes paid a fee for those services by the farm companies. Saksida, as part of her private veterinary practice over the past 15 years, has done contract work for all three fish farm companies that operate in the study area."
https://bccahs.wordpress.com/tag/gary-marty/
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CK, I have to wonder how much time and money American born Morton has cost taxpaying Canadians? I truly believe the Cohen fiasco was a knee jerk reaction from Ottawa mainly brought about by her, and the opportunity to buy a few votes out west .. the money that cost us ($30 M), the time spent by people like yourself answering questions when you have more important issues, the media frenzy she has created, the public relations cost to BC's salmon farming industry, the loss of jobs and credibility to FN who are gullible enough to buy into her story ... it just keeps piling up. As far as I can see and read she does nothing for wild salmon, other than advocate we eat them.
And who or what is the biggest benefactor from all this? ... Alaskan fishing interests. Oh wow, now I'm like Chris talking conspiracy ;D
you know, a conspiracy doesn't seem too far fetched. maybe the yanks were choked at us for everything marc emery did down there. so they sent us morton, and now they're having the last laugh.
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you know, a conspiracy doesn't seem too far fetched. maybe the yanks were choked at us for everything marc emery did down there. so they sent us morton, and now they're having the last laugh.
LOL!!
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sea-lice-not-cause-of-wild-salmon-collapse-researchers-say/article1319582/
"Dr. Marty, who has worked for the fish farming industry in the United States, said the finding means environmentalists' demands that fish farms be moved away from the migratory routes of wild salmon are not justified."
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"How did they get through peer review if they couldn't verify the chain of custody on the farmed fish they bought at the stores?"
Yeah, I can't believe that one either. No mention where those farmed fish came from and how they were handled from capture to analysis.
"Why didn't they do something that could be repeated or confirmed using another method?"
Didn't need to do it. That would involve needless work on their part. This isn't about science and due diligence. If it was then we would know the chain of custody and origin of those farmed fish in the study. That's for people who actually care about their credentials and professional standing and reputation. Morton already accomplished her goal after the media took the study and ran with it (i.e. it went viral...lol).
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From Alex this morning, will this happen?
Dear Salmon Farmers:
Making defamatory statements about me is not helpful. I invite you, once again, to debate me in public. I think ISA virus is in BC, you don't. Let me go to your farms escorted by local First Nations to select the best samples for testing, and distribute the samples among the government labs that have also detected ISAV and Gary Marty - and then lets hold a public round table and decide what the next steps are.
Isn't Alexandra a member on FWR? Why doesn't she set the record straight here on this forum with all of us non-believers? I find it hilarious that she feels like she has some sort of credibility or credentials on this subject - enough to be at a "public round table" to "decide" what needs to be done. Before she starts participating in a round table discussion on this maybe she might want to address the deficiencies in the latest study she was involved in as she will undoubtedly be grilled severely over them by researchers that know what they are talking about.
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/sea-lice-not-cause-of-wild-salmon-collapse-researchers-say/article1319582/
"Dr. Marty, who has worked for the fish farming industry in the United States, said the finding means environmentalists' demands that fish farms be moved away from the migratory routes of wild salmon are not justified."
Marty doesn't he work for fish farmers .....hilarious. Yet there's the pro bad practice open pen fish farm groupies and workers giving him credibility. Now that he's exposed they ignore the fact. Epic fail :o
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Marty doesn't he work for fish farmers .....hilarious. Yet there's the pro bad practice open pen fish farm groupies and workers giving him credibility. Now that he's exposed they ignore the fact. Epic fail :o
Wow.
Confirmation bias wrapped in cognitive dissonance, sprinkled with some assorted rhetological fallacies and fried in BS.
Now there's an epic fail.
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Time for you guys to get some more paid Fish Farm PR people on this board.
Funny how they identify themselves as "simple folk" here, instead.
"Fisherbob" and "ClayoquotKid" are losing ground fast.
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Wow.
Confirmation bias wrapped in cognitive dissonance, sprinkled with some assorted rhetological fallacies and fried in BS.
Now there's an epic fail.
You already said you work at one of those places, so I understand your frustration. It's a challenge to change careers.
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Time for you guys to get some more paid Fish Farm PR people on this board.
Funny how they identify themselves as "simple folk" here, instead.
"Fisherbob" and "ClayoquotKid" are losing ground fast.
When all else fails for the anti-crew, they sling the bottom of the barrel BS. Still no word on when salmon farming in Washington or BC has harmed wild salmon from them. Back to you lol. :)
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You already said you work at one of those places, so I understand your frustration. It's a challenge to change careers.
I'd love to fast-track my retirement plan of running a guide/accommodation operation out of Ukee where I can fish every day and the Mrs. can help with the guests.
Unfortunately I'm stuck here for now trying to explain how the realities of scientific process and evidence gathering prove to be too much of a challenge for aquaculture critics to overcome.
You've got the feels, and the feels are good enough for you - that's fine, just don't expect to be taken seriously in the real world.
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Today in Vancouver. https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1910373_10153721266931253_3901597644947115246_n.jpg?oh=d0c40012dc5b7171d7e162026a6cd1ab&oe=570733AD
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Today in Vancouver. https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1910373_10153721266931253_3901597644947115246_n.jpg?oh=d0c40012dc5b7171d7e162026a6cd1ab&oe=570733AD
I feel like getting my drum and joining them. ;D
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I'd love to fast-track my retirement plan of running a guide/accommodation operation out of Ukee where I can fish every day and the Mrs. can help with the guests.
Unfortunately I'm stuck here for now trying to explain how the realities of scientific process and evidence gathering prove to be too much of a challenge for aquaculture critics to overcome.
You've got the feels, and the feels are good enough for you - that's fine, just don't expect to be taken seriously in the real world.
You should be able to guide them over to the net pen for some pay and play. Guess that's not allowed?
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Today in Vancouver. https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1910373_10153721266931253_3901597644947115246_n.jpg?oh=d0c40012dc5b7171d7e162026a6cd1ab&oe=570733AD
Help me out here Chris. What "Virus" was detected? Back to you. :)
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Today in Vancouver. https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/1910373_10153721266931253_3901597644947115246_n.jpg?oh=d0c40012dc5b7171d7e162026a6cd1ab&oe=570733AD
Yup, looks like the usual suspects attending, lol! Chris, who paid their expenses?
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Wow Chris. Looks like double the turn out of regular grocery store protests. How many this time. 20?
Good question Dave.
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I feel like getting my drum and joining them. ;D
Considering that you cannot continue a discussion on the subject matter here without using the same, old corruption labeling and childish remarks then perhaps drumming will be good for you. At least you will get some exercise. It is funny how you are jumping all over Dr. Marty for his past employment with the fish farm industry as if it was some great discovery of something sinister. Most of our knowledge of pathogens in fish have come from culture fish. Who do you think would require knowledge from fish health professionals? Your grand contention of "epic fail" here is hilarious.
More importantly, before you criticize others for their writing you might want to clean up your own act, especially your spelling and grammar. Keep with the cut and pasting.
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Help me out here Chris. What "Virus" was detected? Back to you. :)
Check this thread 47 pages, before you came on the scene. ;D ;D ;D
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=28342.0
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It was garbage then and it's garbage now.
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"Also did Dr Marty work at one time for FF's? Most likely no one here would know."
"It is funny how you are jumping all over Dr. Marty for his past employment with the fish farm industry as if it was some great discovery of something sinister."
He was right no one here would know because they just go on and on about Morton. A sign of what they may know about possible harm from open pen fish farm no doubt.
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It was garbage then and it's garbage now.
But you, SS and Abby posted there? ;D ;D ;D
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From Alex to keep the boys in the loop. Keep up the good work Alex and Eddie. Looking forward to the this years Wild Salmon Caravan in June.
"The Provincial government weighs in on the new paper that I co-published, which started a nasty little chain of tweets. As well the response to this paper from the industry has been to make defamatory remarks about me. I remain hopeful our federal government will listen to the First Nations who have put out press releases and set up a demonstration about this paper in front of DFO yesterday. FYI insulting me is not going to contain ISA virus, this is a dangerous virus, with quite a reputation and I just can't understand how government can let it continue unrecognized in the face of so much evidence. As for the government of BC, I think it may be time for an upgrade. Our children's future is under too much a grave threat to engage in such stupidity. For the record universities grant honourary degrees for exceptional contributions to society. In my case it was for my research on the impact of sea lice from salmon farms on our wild salmon.'
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From Alex to keep the boys in the loop. Keep up the good work Alex and Eddie. Looking forward to the this years Wild Salmon Caravan in June.
"The Provincial government weighs in on the new paper that I co-published, which started a nasty little chain of tweets. As well the response to this paper from the industry has been to make defamatory remarks about me. I remain hopeful our federal government will listen to the First Nations who have put out press releases and set up a demonstration about this paper in front of DFO yesterday. FYI insulting me is not going to contain ISA virus, this is a dangerous virus, with quite a reputation and I just can't understand how government can let it continue unrecognized in the face of so much evidence. As for the government of BC, I think it may be time for an upgrade. Our children's future is under too much a grave threat to engage in such stupidity. For the record universities grant honourary degrees for exceptional contributions to society. In my case it was for my research on the impact of sea lice from salmon farms on our wild salmon.'
What are the defamatory statements? You mean about her falsely stating that farmed Atlantic Salmon have not been tested for ISAv by BC fish farms as well as Canadian and US agencies when they actually were? Pretty smart to get the First Nations all riled up and misinformed and have them carry out the demonstrations outside government offices while leaving the social media stuff to the mothership. I wonder why she is getting very defensive about this latest study? Still no word about the whereabouts of those farmed salmon samples I notice. Nice to know she is all for good science.
Oh....and for the record....it is not correct for individuals like Ms. Morton to refer to themselves as "Dr.", nor should they use the title on business cards or in correspondence. The designation is to be used behind their name. Maybe she forgot to get clarification from SFU? Yeah that what it was...lol.
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" Yeah that what it was..."
"you might want to clean up your own act, especially your spelling and grammar"
you where saying......or trying to say.....
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Let's try again... who pays the protester's expenses?
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Let's try again... who pays the protester's expenses?
I never get a cent. ;D ;D ;D
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Let's try again... who pays the protester's expenses?
fishfarm bawb did at one time. :)
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I never get a cent. ;D ;D ;D
How about Eddy and the other protesters? To get that many people to Vancouver cost several hundred dollars in fuel, and after a good protest, a man's gotta eat ...
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How about Eddy and the other protesters? To get that many people to Vancouver cost several hundred dollars in fuel, and after a good protest, a man's gotta eat ...
Shoot Eddie an e mail, not an important issue anyway in the scheme of things.
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The Wild Salmon rally made the Global News today at 15:39 on this video with a follow up report about the effect of climate change on Wild Salmon.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1149299/watch-news-hour/
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Shoot Eddie an e mail, not an important issue anyway in the scheme of things.
Now some would say that's a deflection from answering the question. Others might say hmmm ;D
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" Yeah that what it was..."
"you might want to clean up your own act, especially your spelling and grammar"
you where saying......or trying to say.....
Oh yes...I forgot to say that you might want to add some original thought to your posts on this topic instead of cut and pasting most of the time. Thanks for the reminder.
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fishfarm bawb did at one time. :)
Pat yourself on the back TB. You got something right for a change. Has Doc Morton? Back to you. :)
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From yesterday, Eddie.
Net-Pen Fish Farms - Stop Playing Russian Roulette with Wild Salmon!
People from all backgrounds answered the call to raise public awareness and deliver the message of a call to action on testing farmed salmon immediately that would involve First Nations being involved in all the steps, and selecting scientists to do the testing. We all urge the Honourable Hunter Tootoo to meet with Alexandra Morton, Rick Routledge, Kristi Miller, Dr. Kibenge and the First Nation Wild Salmon Alliance.
News of the first published evidence that a European variant of the infectious salmon anaemia virus (ISAV) is present in British Columbia is extremely disturbing, and stakeholders are legitimately alarmed. The peer-reviewed study was published in the Virology Journal, a scientific publication from BioMed Central, a leading academic open access publisher in the areas of biology, medicine and health. Co-author Dr. Rick Routledge said that the potential of the ISA virus to be contributing to widespread decline in sockeye salmon populations must not be taken lightly. Dr. Alexandra Morton, independent biologist with Raincoast Research Society, stated, “This work gives B.C. and our U.S. neighbors the opportunity to avoid tragic consequences, but immediate steps must be taken.”
This study adds to our grave concerns about fish farms, and they must be removed from the ocean,” asserted Shane John, a Katz First Nation fisher.
“It is extremely urgent for the Liberal government to meet with scientists publishing on the ISA virus, and the First Nations Wild Salmon Alliance (FNWSA) to avoid the unimaginable – the loss or disappearance of wild salmon due to viruses such as ISA,” stated Jim Hobart, Chief of the Spuzzum First Nation (east of Yale, B.C.) and member of the FNWSA. “The fish farm industry approach of attacking the peer-reviewed science only emphasizes the need for immediate open and transparent virus testing of farmed salmon in those open-net pens,” added Chief Hobart.
“We are all in favour of long overdue testing of ocean farmed salmon, but what is also required is an immediate stop to any expansion of open-net farms on the migration routes of wild salmon,” insisted Chief Michelle Lee Edwards of Sekw’el’wes First Nation in Lillooet.
The Ahousaht First Nation made the historic decision in 2015 to have a fish farm removed from their territory. “By not allowing this fish farm in our territory, we gave the wild salmon of the Atleo River a fighting chance to survive, and we protected nearby clam beds to feed future generations,” said Lennie John of Ahousaht First Nation. “To me, this study reconfirms fish farms don’t belong in the ocean,” Lennie added.
"Open-net fish farms could very well be ticking virus bombs, and raises the spectre of wild salmon vanishing, with devastating consequences for biodiversity and the wild salmon economy, warned Eddie Gardner, Coordinator of the Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance. "To prevent this, we need to honor the precautionary principle by removing open-net fish farms from the ocean," Eddie said emphatically.
We were honoured by Coleen Thomas of the Tseil Waututh who welcomed us to the territory shared by the Tseil Waututh, Musqueam and Squamish. She said she was in solidarity and her heart was full of good feelings to be in solidarity with the people at the rally and what we stood for. OCM!"
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So, now Dr. Miller-Saunders is being mentioned again by activists, but her previous retro-analysis work in 2011 with ISAv-like sequences was not worth mentioning in the study. Eddie did a good job cut and pasting all those statements together. If Morton is so concerned about our US neighbours then why didn't she collect some wild, farmed or ranch salmon samples from Washington State and Alaska? She had no problem obtaining samples from First Nation fishers here so why didn't she try asking First Nations in the US?
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So, now Dr. Miller-Saunders is being mentioned again by activists, but her previous retro-analysis work in 2011 with ISAv-like sequences was not worth mentioning in the study. Eddie did a good job cut and pasting all those statements together. If Morton is so concerned about our US neighbours then why didn't she collect some wild, farmed or ranch salmon samples from Washington State and Alaska? She had no problem obtaining samples from First Nation fishers here so why didn't she try asking First Nations in the US?
As you know this is a very big file and one can only do so much, it is more than just being able to sit behind a computer like you and I typing out responses to each other. Have a good weekend, I will be back posting on Monday, time to rest over the weekend. ;D
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As you know this is a very big file and one can only do so much, it is more than just being able to sit behind a computer like you and I typing out responses to each other. Have a good weekend, I will be back posting on Monday, time to rest over the weekend. ;D
Yes, posting propaganda and conducting faulty science can take up a bunch of time from actually doing something constructive for our fisheries. Have a great weekend yourself. I will look forward to more "beetle dung" on this topic as Absolon used to call it. ;D
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Yes, posting propaganda and conducting faulty science can take up a bunch of time from actually doing something constructive for our fisheries. Have a great weekend yourself. I will look forward to more "beetle dung" on this topic as Absolon used to call it. ;D
Where is Abby these days?
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Fishing :D
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Check this thread 47 pages, before you came on the scene. ;D ;D ;D
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=28342.0
Same old lol. Perhaps you can tell me what Doc Morton was right with then or what she has got right since then. Or perhaps Alex can come back on FWR and reply for herself.
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Yes, posting propaganda and conducting faulty science can take up a bunch of time from actually doing something constructive for our fisheries. Have a great weekend yourself. I will look forward to more "beetle dung" on this topic as Absolon used to call it. ;D
And besides working up a typing storm- what do you do? (besides spewing belittling arrogant rants? ;) ;D ;D) Kudos to Chris for actually doing something other than sitting at a computer, arguing with his computer.....
(9 page retort coming soon! ;D)
I'm back! :) ;)
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/silencing-critics-101-an-activists-guide-to-controlling-the-message/
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And besides working up a typing storm- what do you do? (besides spewing belittling arrogant rants? ;) ;D ;D) Kudos to Chris for actually doing something other than sitting at a computer, arguing with his computer.....
(9 page retort coming soon! ;D)
I'm back! :) ;)
Sigh...
Well if you actually followed this along better you would have noticed that the criticism about doing something constructive for our fisheries was directed at Alexandra Morton and not Chris. She apparently has a lot of time posting her propaganda and conducting poor science (Chris is not conducting any science that I am aware of) instead of being more diligent in her sampling design.
However, the "beetle dung" comment was directed at Chris as that is my opinion on those media articles he posts about fish farms (this term was used by Absolon awhile back with Chris). Why don't you go back a few posts and see. Once again, you go off half cocked and end up with your foot in your mouth.
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And besides working up a typing storm- what do you do? (besides spewing belittling arrogant rants? ;) ;D ;D) Kudos to Chris for actually doing something other than sitting at a computer, arguing with his computer.....
(9 page retort coming soon! ;D)
I'm back! :) ;)
Now that you are back can we expect more name calling to go along with threats of legal action? I have a friend that would describe your actions as that of an immature, impotent fool with a hero worship complex. I don't necessarily agree with his assessment but that is what I think he would say if I asked him. Run that opinion by your legal eagle prop and see if it is actionable.
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Now that you are back can we expect more name calling to go along with threats of legal action? I have a friend that would describe your actions as that of an immature, impotent fool with a hero worship complex. I don't necessarily agree with his assessment but that is what I think he would say if I asked him. Run that opinion by your legal eagle prop and see if it is actionable.
Edit- I had a sharper response, but let's just say the irony of your post speaks for itself. ::)
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Sigh...
Well if you actually followed this along better you would have noticed that the criticism about doing something constructive for our fisheries was directed at Alexandra Morton and not Chris. She apparently has a lot of time posting her propaganda and conducting poor science (Chris is not conducting any science that I am aware of) instead of being more diligent in her sampling design.
However, the "beetle dung" comment was directed at Chris as that is my opinion on those media articles he posts about fish farms (this term was used by Absolon awhile back with Chris). Why don't you go back a few posts and see. Once again, you go off half cocked and end up with your foot in your mouth.
Fingers sore? I expected at least 25 paragraphs...... ;)
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2016/01/12/alleged-findings-of-isa-in-bc-salmon-will-not-spur-testing-changes/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=22b673bf2e-Salmon_News_Jan_20_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-22b673bf2e-166912013
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And... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/fish-farm-review-fast-tracked-1.3405101?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=22b673bf2e-Salmon_News_Jan_20_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-22b673bf2e-166912013
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To keep those interested in this thread, more reading for an Wednesday afternoon. https://www.yahoo.com/food/can-land-based-fish-farms-fix-farmed-seafoods-125456604.html?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=22b673bf2e-Salmon_News_Jan_20_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-22b673bf2e-166912013
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2016/01/12/alleged-findings-of-isa-in-bc-salmon-will-not-spur-testing-changes/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=22b673bf2e-Salmon_News_Jan_20_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-22b673bf2e-166912013
Nice to see the testing has been and will continue to be done by educated people and is refreshing to see from Doc Morton's "Dog Science". :)
"A recently released scientific paper claiming that a sequence of infectious salmon anaemia (ISA) virus is present in British Columbia, Canada, will not prompt any changes to the already-vigorous ISA testing program, according to the B.C. Ministry of Agriculture's senior fish pathologist Gary Marty."
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farms-eye-piece-10-billion-aquaculture-pie
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/fish-farms-eye-piece-10-billion-aquaculture-pie
Nice! It's plain to see aquaculture is here to stay in BC and is expanding it's potential for other opportunities to benefit others, much like the chicken, beef and pork industry has done with their waste products. Good post ;)
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So right now sea life on ocean floor under these pens should be thriving and flourishing more so then areas not close to the pens due to all the "nutrition"?
Is this correct?
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A few years ago I posted that I had the opportunity to jig for bottom fish with my brother in law, a few km outside of Port Hardy. Understand, neither of us were experienced with this type of fishing but he had a 40' sailboat, we were spreading my mother in law's ashes in the Pacific at her request, and it was a beautiful, sunny day. Some beers were on board and consumed. He knew my stand on salmon farms so I asked him to drift alongside a farm and we did, perhaps a hundred M from the first farm we came to (on the left, just out of Hardy Bay) jigging big ugly spoon like chunks of shiny metal, just off the bottom. Again, we are total beeks at this style of fishing but in about 45 minutes we caught 4 species of ground fish, the only 2 I could identify were a small ling cod and a capezon.
While drifting along side this salmon farm we saw many sea birds, a few dolphins, several sea lions and many seals. The place was alive with living things.
To me, this one day of fishing near a salmon farm totally convinced me a farm properly sited, taking into consideration sheltered bays and tidal influences, made my argument easier to defend.
There was a video posted earlier of prawns thriving beneath salmon farm net pens ..., perhaps someone could dredge that up ;D
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A few years ago I posted that I had the opportunity to jig for bottom fish with my brother in law, a few km outside of Port Hardy. Understand, neither of us were experienced with this type of fishing but he had a 40' sailboat, we were spreading my mother in law's ashes in the Pacific at her request, and it was a beautiful, sunny day. Some beers were on board and consumed. He knew my stand on salmon farms so I asked him to drift alongside a farm and we did, perhaps a hundred M from the first farm we came to (on the left, just out of Hardy Bay) jigging big ugly spoon like chunks of shiny metal, just off the bottom. Again, we are total beeks at this style of fishing but in about 45 minutes we caught 4 species of ground fish, the only 2 I could identify were a small ling cod and a capezon.
While drifting along side this salmon farm we saw many sea birds, a few dolphins, several sea lions and many seals. The place was alive with living things.
To me, this one day of fishing near a salmon farm totally convinced me a farm properly sited, taking into consideration sheltered bays and tidal influences, made my argument easier to defend.
There was a video posted earlier of prawns thriving beneath salmon farm net pens ..., perhaps someone could dredge that up ;D
I wonder how many years the pens had been there when the Beaks drifted by?
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I have no idea how long that farm had been there and indeed is the only salmon farm I have seen first hand. What I did see, along with the fish caught, was a ton of avian and mammalian diversity close by, and a few people making a decent living who spend their earnings in the town of Port Hardy... looked just about right to me.
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" I could identify were a small ling cod and a capezon."
You could of seen her on facebook? So she's making a decent living eh.
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I'd have liked to have seen some analysis on residuals in those fish Dave. Always the Devil's advocate.... ;)
End buy da Lard Tonderin', Eye kin teech ya how ta jig cod, my sun. Me Newfinese Dad end me Nova Scotian unkles tawt me reel gud, bye.
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I'd have liked to have seen some analysis on residuals in those fish Dave. Always the Devil's advocate.... ;)
End buy da Lard Tonderin', Eye kin teech ya how ta jig cod, my sun. Me Newfinese Dad end me Nova Scotian unkles tawt me reel gud, bye.
Yeah, I'm sure better fishermen would have caught a lot more :)
The fish were released but looked healthy to me, and I have seen a ton of unhealthy fish ;D
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" I could identify were a small ling cod and a capezon."
You could of seen her on facebook? So she's making a decent living eh.
Say what???
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Yeah, I'm sure better fishermen would have caught a lot more :)
The fish were released but looked healthy to me, and I have seen a ton of unhealthy fish ;D
Oddly enough, rules were lax enough that, even as 12 year old kids, we could row a dory out,set 'tubs of trawl" and hand line to our hearts content. Caught a lot of pollock, tommy cod, haddock even a cusk or two. We salted it down in punchins and barrels to be sold it at Christmas.
I will admit you do know sick fish better than I would, but with my career I've handled tons of nasty chemicals( butyls,perc,wet and dry solvents, etc.)that I'm sure are residing in my liver or somewhere else and I appear healthy. Somewhat, anyway. Never get hydroflouric acid on your fingers.....
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I hear ya Nova ... I used to do histology on fish tissues and actually handled known carcinogens like xylene, formaldehyde and acetone with bare hands .. didn't know any better back then :'( and like you I consider myself relatively healthy.
And you're correct, the fish we caught near the fish farm could have had some form of contaminant level but what fish doesn't nowadays? Check out the famed Alaskan Copper River sockeye and chinooks for resididual contaminants ... scary.
Dead Pacific orcas, St. Lawrence belugas and Baltic seals are considered too toxic for landfills; we live in dangerous times for the environment and I can't see it improving anytime soon; make the best of what time we have left and hope the next generations can somehow right our wrongs.
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Most of what I use now is actually edible, tastes horrible and makes me really , um , gassy. Stay down wind! ;)For my own safety first and foremost as I come in contact on a daily basis, but also for my customer's safety, I stay as green as possible. There's been a lot of progress in chemical engineering for what I need to use. I got hydroflouric acid burns on 2 fingers once. It's calcium seeking and the only way to deal with it was to take off 2 fingernails and open the meat to the bone to neutralize it. I found out why fingernail removal was an effective torture.
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Say what???
capezon is a persons name, cabezon is perhaps a fish or big head
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capezon is a persons name, cabezon is perhaps a fish or big head
sorry, spelling mistake :-[
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A few years ago I posted that I had the opportunity to jig for bottom fish with my brother in law, a few km outside of Port Hardy. Understand, neither of us were experienced with this type of fishing but he had a 40' sailboat, we were spreading my mother in law's ashes in the Pacific at her request, and it was a beautiful, sunny day. Some beers were on board and consumed. He knew my stand on salmon farms so I asked him to drift alongside a farm and we did, perhaps a hundred M from the first farm we came to (on the left, just out of Hardy Bay) jigging big ugly spoon like chunks of shiny metal, just off the bottom. Again, we are total beeks at this style of fishing but in about 45 minutes we caught 4 species of ground fish, the only 2 I could identify were a small ling cod and a capezon.
While drifting along side this salmon farm we saw many sea birds, a few dolphins, several sea lions and many seals. The place was alive with living things.
To me, this one day of fishing near a salmon farm totally convinced me a farm properly sited, taking into consideration sheltered bays and tidal influences, made my argument easier to defend.
There was a video posted earlier of prawns thriving beneath salmon farm net pens ..., perhaps someone could dredge that up ;D
Prawns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il0Y16uZmNs
Here's a link to research done in Washington State re: beneficial impacts of aquaculture: http://www.wfga.net/documents/marine_finfish_finalreport.pdf
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Thanks CK!
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/sea-lice-outbreak-shows-no-links-salmon-farming-bc-report
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Way to keep the thread alive, Bob!
It's like a website called "FrackingIsOk.com" saying there are no problems with fracking.
There is some good information in this link, however.
It appears that DFO published sea lice counts for individual farms:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/lice-pou-eng.html
Double-digit louse counts per fish (up to 24!) at several sites.
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So, let me see If I have this right … Almo predicted sea lice would cause the extinction of pink salmon and now we find that obviously didn’t happen, with populations actually increasing, but they are one of the reasons there are more sea lice, even far from fish farms.
Interesting ;)
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This thread has been slipping badly better post something. ;D ;D http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-open-net-pen-salmon-farms-ending-in-norway-1.2185654
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-dialogue-breakthrough
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bc-dialogue-breakthrough
Nice try but it was not all that great as this article tries to say it was. ::)
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Nice try but it was not all that great as this article tries to say it was. ::)
Please explain your thinking as the two links are entirely different. One mentions problems in Norway, the other talks about how salmon farming in BC can get better with collaboration from various concerned experts in the field of salmon farming, including anti's. Seems to me these meetings of people concerned with salmon farming in BC and Washington are a good thing.
One wonders, was Almo there?
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Dr. Kristi Miller, an internationally recognised scientist from Fisheries and Oceans Canada, joins the Salt Spring Forum to discuss her research on wild salmon (and how to save them), an issue of extreme importance for the coast of BC.
In 2011, Dr. Miller published an article in the world-leading journal Science but then was prohibited from discussing her research with the media by the Harper government. Since the change of government this past fall, Dr. Miller is once again able to speak freely.
Dr. Miller has worked with Fisheries and Oceans Canada since 1994. She is currently the Head of the Molecular Genetics Laboratory at the Pacific Biological Station in Nanaimo and an adjunct Professor in the Department of Forest and Conservation Sciences at UBC. She has conducted genetics and genomics research on fish and shellfish for over 20 years; her current research is focused on the role of infectious disease in wild salmon declines.
Tickets are available at ArtSpring at 250.537.2102 and online at http://www.tickets.artspring.ca/, or at Salt Spring Books. $15 Forum Members; $20 General Admission.
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Wherever you copied this from should update their files; her married name is now Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders ;)
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/warming-temperatures-and-exotic-predators-may-reduce-2016-alaska-salmon-catch/
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/land-based-salmon-still-not-investor-ready
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Interesting read Bob. I knew cc salmon farming was expensive but had no idea it was x7 over net penned fish. For sure, hard to find investors in this and one wonders how long the Namgis experiment will last.
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Here's another link to a video about the potential aquaculture opportunities in the US.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/growing-up-the-argument-for-american-aquaculture/
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Here's another link to a video about the potential aquaculture opportunities in the US.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/growing-up-the-argument-for-american-aquaculture/
Watched the video. I find it funny that fish farm critics keep bringing up how farmed salmon is so unsafe to eat because of PCBs; however, when you look at the diet of the average American citizen and the actual risk of PCB-related cancers from farmed salmon it actually pretty clear where the real problem is and what people need to be eating more of. Type 2 diabetes, heart disease and obesity (especially in children) far outweigh any risk that farm salmon pose. Folks should go to Dallas-Ft.Worth airport and see what food is served there. It's a haven for the brown food group. That's the real health problem. Aquaculture is going to take off in the US. They are not going to keep importing at the rate they are now when they can do more of it themselves - and they know they can. It's only a matter of time.
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/377474871.html?mobile=true
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Thread has been dying lately, time to wake the boys. ;D http://www.nature.com/news/nine-years-of-censorship-1.19842?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews
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Thread has been dying lately, time to wake the boys. ;D http://www.nature.com/news/nine-years-of-censorship-1.19842?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews
See what you get when scientists can speak ... Kristi Miller Saunders talks about the 2:50 minute mark. Chris won't like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sovKDToTFNE&feature=youtu.be
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/fisherie-oceans-department-hiring-research-scientists-1.3577115
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2016/05/case-adjourned-dfo-blinks.html
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http://actionforsalmon.ca/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=6d9fa42287-Salmon_News_May_18_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-6d9fa42287-166912013
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http://www.ketchikandailynews.com/free/Opinion--Editorial-for-Tuesday-May-18?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=6d9fa42287-Salmon_News_May_18_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-6d9fa42287-166912013
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http://seekingalpha.com/article/3978202-salmon-farming-stalemate-british-columbia
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http://seekingalpha.com/article/3978202-salmon-farming-stalemate-british-columbia
Not sure why I have to get an App to read the full article Chris. Does it fund Doc Morton never getting it right? Bin there done that. :)
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
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Not sure why I have to get an App to read the full article Chris. Does it fund Doc Morton never getting it right? Bin there done that. :)
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
Good to hear from you as the rest of the boys have now gone into hiding due to the latest news. As Dave loved to say, this story on this link is 3 years old now. ;D ;D
Have a good weekend and hope you are having some good fishing.
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The boys aren't hiding Chris, just waiting for the rest of the story from Miller-Saunders. When it does come out you will see another Almo fail ;)
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Be very afraid of Cooke Aquaculture- their record is appalling.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/aquaculture-company-on-the-hook-for-500k-for-pesticide-use-1.1317105
http://www.southcoasttoday.ca/content/cooke-aquaculture-charged-environment-canada-illegal-pesticide-use
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/112300-cooke-aquaculture-slow-to-report-barge-sinking
And there's WAY more about this company.
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The boys aren't hiding Chris, just waiting for the rest of the story from Miller-Saunders. When it does come out you will see another Almo fail ;)
Of course you are going to say that, I am pretty sure their further report will be having no political interference now but stranger things do happen when a lot of money is at stake. :-\
Of course no one can deny all the problems in other countries but the PAP gang always pick that apart too.
We have requested a meeting with Tooto on the Caravan, but have not heard back. The Wild Salmon Caravan is going to be great, it is too bad you miss out on it because of your narrow views.
I think the chap in Kamloops will be lurking in the shadows when we pass through, I hope he takes the time to come an introduce himself to us. ;D ;D
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The Wild Salmon Caravan is going to be great, it is too bad you miss out on it because of your narrow views.
::)
Perhaps if more focus was on real issues and not witch hunts I would be interested. Whatever, fill 'yer boots.
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Dave what's your opinion on Cooke's takeover of Icicle? I'm not trolling, but I am curious about your thoughts.
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::)
Perhaps if more focus was on real issues and not witch hunts I would be interested. Whatever, fill 'yer boots.
You can always work on dealing with what you say is "the real issues", let us know what you plan to do and maybe others will help you out too.
Oh and we will be in Abbotsford today getting ready for the Wild Salmon Caravan, I will ask Eddie to sing your favorite song, the shoppers love it too. ;D ;D
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Hey Chris, count how many endangered early run Fraser chinooks are consumed by all the salmon warriors during this effort to save them.
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Dave what's your opinion on Cooke's takeover of Icicle? I'm not trolling, but I am curious about your thoughts.
Sorry Bill, I have not followed this takeover so have no comments. How about your thoughts as this is more your area of expertise, being as you have history there.
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Sorry Bill, I have not followed this takeover so have no comments. How about your thoughts as this is more your area of expertise, being as you have history there.
The above nuggets, these below show a pretty callous approach. They may not be the worst, but they aren't far down the list. Wild Atlantic salmon are nearly extinct , so somehow I don't feel these guys should be getting all the coddling they get. I have a sneaking suspicion there's probably something behind the collapse of the lobster fisheries that used to thrive in the area of the Saddle Island site that my family fished for generations. As far as I know, the area is still pretty barren of lobster.
http://southcoasttoday.ca/content/more-troubles-cooke-aqua-product-recall-do-not-buy-notice-farmed-salmon-loan-demands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFSjxA96Dn0
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Hey Chris, count how many endangered early run Fraser chinooks are consumed by all the salmon warriors during this effort to save them.
As usual you avoid the question I asked of you on a earlier post "You can always work on dealing with what you say is "the real issues", let us know what you plan to do and maybe others will help you out too." :-[
Beako begone. ;D ;D
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I notice a lot of silence on Cooke as well.... C'mon Dave, I had you figured as objective.
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I notice a lot of silence on Cooke as well.... C'mon Dave, I had you figured as objective.
Ha ha! I think I am as well but as I said I don't really follow fish farming in other areas; just here on the West coast.
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Ha ha! I think I am as well but as I said I don't really follow fish farming in other areas; just here on the West coast.
You might want to bone up on them. They're going to be making some plays out here.
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2016/06/wild-salmon-sampling-expedition-to-the-discovery-islands-.html
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No one the pro farmed salmon advocates have gone into hiding. http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/most-canadian-seafood-fails-harvesting-sustainability-test-report
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/2-clayoquot-sound-salmon-farms-hit-by-toxic-algae-1.3633722
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If algae bloom affects salmon the way it affects trout, the salmon would taste like crap after ingesting the algae.
Saw a lot of shut down fish farms in Esperanza Inlet because of algae blooms.
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https://soundcloud.com/pulse1077/kash-heed-show-alex-morton-interview-2016-06-14
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https://soundcloud.com/pulse1077/kash-heed-show-alex-morton-interview-2016-06-14
Is doc morton a registered biologist, was, or not?
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/%E2%80%9Cdr%E2%80%9D-alexandra-morton-does-it-again
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Is doc morton a registered biologist, was, or not?
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/%E2%80%9Cdr%E2%80%9D-alexandra-morton-does-it-again
Grasping at straws now? :P I give you credit for at least posting while the others have now seen the writing on the wall. ;D
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Ah Chris, into the koolaid again I see ;D Why not wait until Miller-Saunders publishes her science? Then we can start talking with facts to back up our arguments, not Morton's opinions.
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Meanwhile, Cooke aquaculture's disgraceful record is not worthy of comment for the pro side as they slime their way into the west coast.... ::). If it gets ignored long enough, maybe it'll get buried and go away -OR- I'll help them get some education .... ;)
http://bangordailynews.com/2013/04/27/business/cooke-aquaculture-to-pay-490k-after-illegal-pesticides-kill-lobsters-in-canada/
http://www.southcoasttoday.ca/content/trial-date-closer-cooke-execs
http://www.southcoasttoday.ca/content/20000-reward-really
http://novascotiafishing.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4269-aquaculture-my friend-fights-back-on-new-website-guess-were-getting-their-attention/page-5
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2015/04/09/maine-man-fined-in-cross-border-pesticide-case/
http://ellsworthamerican.com/archive/2005/10-13-05/ea_news6_10-13-05.html
http://www.petersburgpilot.com/story/2016/05/12/news/icicle-seafoods-to-be-purchased-by-cooke-family/4777.html
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/martin-sheen-save-salmon-sea-shepherd-alexandra-morton-1.3642242
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/the-working-waterfront/
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From a FB contact
"Breaking! This is so sad...Alex can't make it up there and we know that Marine Harvest probably won't truthfully document it...if anyone is in the area of Bull Harbour, which is at Hope Island north of Port Hardy, and can go out to take pics and video
Wendy Pederson to Alexandra Morton..."Ole Skogan just asked me to pass on to you that you might want to go to Bull Harbour right away. It just happened in the last few hours that farm fish escaped on mass from their pens. The net broke or whatever happened. They are jumping all over the place"
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9c_KttvQPU
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Well it seems common sense is alive and well. Hopefully this will get Almo working on important issues such as FN over fishing early run Fraser chinooks, or Alaska's salmon ranching. ... yeah, right.
http://www.cfax1070.com/News/Top-Stories/BC-biologist-decrying-DFO-decision-granting-licens#.V3u2WzJ0kp0.facebook
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/it-s-alive-the-blob-lingers-at-new-depth-scientists-say-1.3663878
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Well it seems common sense is alive and well. Hopefully this will get Almo working on important issues such as FN over fishing early run Fraser chinooks, or Alaska's salmon ranching. ... yeah, right.
http://www.cfax1070.com/News/Top-Stories/BC-biologist-decrying-DFO-decision-granting-licens#.V3u2WzJ0kp0.facebook
Or perhaps this problem also
https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/salmon-near-seattle-found-with-cocaine-and-other-drugs-in-tissue
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Or perhaps this problem also
https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/salmon-near-seattle-found-with-cocaine-and-other-drugs-in-tissue
We are talking about FF, looks like diversion by you once again. See troutbreath's post for things more to the point.
Sure miss SS posts I guess he has finally seen the writing on the wall.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvVbyV2WaHU&feature=share
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We are talking about FF, looks like diversion by you once again. See troutbreath's post for things more to the point.
Sure miss SS posts I guess he has finally seen the writing on the wall.
Or you know, maybe he is doing some weird random thing called fishing
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Or you know, maybe he is doing some weird random thing called fishing
I doubt he has time for fishing right now but bet your butt he is involved with fish.
Chris, the writing has been on the wall in big, bold letters for years now but you refuse to read it. Here it is again, just for you ...
fish farming is here to stay ;)
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We are talking about FF, looks like diversion by you once again. See troutbreath's post for things more to the point.
Sure miss SS posts I guess he has finally seen the writing on the wall.
I'm still around but I have been very involved with my kids lately as well as fishing as was noted already as a likely activity at this time of the year. Been mending from some injuries also. However, I'm slowly transitioning from fishing to the summer/fall field season.
Seen the writing on the wall? Lol. Chris, if only you truly knew how small of a space you and other activists (including Ms Morton) in this fish farm issue actually occupy. Lot more going on with activists not involved like they think they are. Nothing really new to discuss other than rehashing the same old stuff over and over again, so just been doing other things.
PRV is really no different as this virus is apparently ubiquitous here amongst salmonids. It also found in US waters. Recent studies show that the virus likely predates fish farming here. Folks that angle should understand that any restrictions that fish farms encounter with PRV is likely going to transcend over to sport angling if the concern is about it spreading (which makes no sense because it has been shown to exist in farmed and wild fish for some time). With environmental conditions (i.e. Ocean and Freshwater) being the way they are there are a multitude of endemic pathogens already that wild salmon can fall victim to, so to make some big stink about HSMI, which is not totally fatal and has only been documented in farmed fish in Norway and recently in some here, is kind of sensationalize more than it should be at this stage. One thing that got forgotten in this rush to judgment were all the fish that had PRV but showed no clinical signs of HSMI or the wild salmon that did not develop HSMI when directly injected with PRV. From a fish culture end of things, diseases like IHN pose far more risk so at this stage we should put things in perspective and not drinking the Kool-Aid in large doses.
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only been documented in farmed fish in Norway and recently in some here
From what I have read these findings have not been confirmed and fall under the category of might, maybe and posable. Correct me if I am wrong.
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From what I have read these findings have not been confirmed and fall under the category of might, maybe and posable. Correct me if I am wrong.
You could be correct. On a similar note I'm still waiting for confirmation of disease in those transferred Marine Harvest fish from Morton, but to date she has provided no evidence of disease.
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Sea Shepard with Alex coming to Vancouver shortly and someone that will even excite even Dave. More info to follow.
Welcome back SS and hope injuries are not too severe,I understand now why you did not attend the Wild Salmon Caravan in your territory last month, what a trip it was.
I see it looks like Dave is back from camping in his own back yard so to speak. :P
I stayed in your favorite campground between SB and M you should be there, filmed this little video for you to bring back a memory of the area for you. https://youtu.be/CORx5Ouq3E4 First nations know a lot more about things than most of us, including the FF issue of course. ;D ;D
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I will be there filming and picture taking for this tread and the PAP gang. lol http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/2016/07/15/sea-shepherd-launches-campaign-to-investigate-farmed-salmon-industry-1828#.V4sJBpJekpg.facebook
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I will be there filming and picture taking for this tread and the PAP gang. lol http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/2016/07/15/sea-shepherd-launches-campaign-to-investigate-farmed-salmon-industry-1828#.V4sJBpJekpg.facebook
Almo sure does seem to attract them! Now we have the well-known fisheries spokesperson Pamela Anderson on board, as well as the Chief of arguably the most militant Indian band in BC; the same band that advocates for gravel extraction in the “heart of the Fraser”, operates an unregulated landfill near the Fraser, and regularly thumbs their noses at DFO and its conservation regulations. He says fish farms contribute to the declivity of wild salmon … I say his members do far more harm.
The good news is we have the unbiased reporting of Chris to set the record straight ;D
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Almo sure does seem to attract them! Now we have the well-known fisheries spokesperson Pamela Anderson on board, as well as the Chief of arguably the most militant Indian band in BC; the same band that advocates for gravel extraction in the “heart of the Fraser”, operates an unregulated landfill near the Fraser, and regularly thumbs their noses at DFO and its conservation regulations. He says fish farms contribute to the declivity of wild salmon … I say his members do far more harm.
The good news is we have the unbiased reporting of Chris to set the record straight ;D
You will be happy to know they are reading your posts. Hope to see you at Jones Lake next weekend to help cleanup the mess there left by many that are polluting the waters there.
Will say Hi to Pam for you tomorrow which by the way is related to my first cousin on the Island. :-X ::)
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I find it interesting that Sea Shepherd and Doc Morton would not investigate the Atlantic Salmon Farms in their own home country back yard. Perhaps you can ask for us Chris. :)
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I will be there filming and picture taking for this tread and the PAP gang. lol http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/2016/07/15/sea-shepherd-launches-campaign-to-investigate-farmed-salmon-industry-1828#.V4sJBpJekpg.facebook
Where are all these places with "lots" of wild salmon but no salmon farms? Would Pam be talking about Alaska? I guess the TelePrompTer in front of her didn't mention about ranched salmon and how they are raised. No mention of the billions of ranched salmon released each year by Alaska, Russia and Japan. But I guess they have Pam believing that ranched salmon are wild. Washington State farms are different apparently......I mean treated differently.
Now fish farms are responsible for making it hard for whales to feed their families. Oh so touching....Too bad that it didn't really get into all the factors involved and attempt to be more informative instead of fear mongering.
Then you have First Nation leadership getting after DFO meanwhile having no issue extracting gravel from the "Heart of the Fraser River". Did the wild salmon caravan stop there this year? Kind of a protest-free zone I guess.
Conducting audits for disease and other factors huh? I guess this is what activists do to make it appear that they are really doing something but in actual fact they are so far away from the current research to date that they need the help from Hollywood to boost ratings.
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I find it interesting that Sea Shepherd and Doc Morton would not investigate the Atlantic Salmon Farms in their own home country back yard. Perhaps you can ask for us Chris. :)
I will let you handle that.
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Where are all these places with "lots" of wild salmon but no salmon farms? Would Pam be talking about Alaska? I guess the TelePrompTer in front of her didn't mention about ranched salmon and how they are raised. No mention of the billions of ranched salmon released each year by Alaska, Russia and Japan. But I guess they have Pam believing that ranched salmon are wild. Washington State farms are different apparently......I mean treated differently.
Now fish farms are responsible for making it hard for whales to feed their families. Oh so touching....Too bad that it didn't really get into all the factors involved and attempt to be more informative instead of fear mongering.
Then you have First Nation leadership getting after DFO meanwhile having no issue extracting gravel from the "Heart of the Fraser River". Did the wild salmon caravan stop there this year? Kind of a protest-free zone I guess.
Conducting audits for disease and other factors huh? I guess this is what activists do to make it appear that they are really doing something but in actual fact they are so far away from the current research to date that they need the help from Hollywood to boost ratings.
We did stop there and because of the Fraser River Gravel Stewardship Comittee that I have a small part of no major gravel extractions have taken place the last few years.
Recently some meetings have taken place on this subject which I am sure you are aware in the capacity of your work or at least some others in the department. If you have not I am sure you can find out. :P
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And of course FF. http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+news/fraser+river+sockeye+returns+predicted+dismal+again+this/12062160/story.html
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On my way, watch the news tonight.lol http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+news/pamela+anderson+joins+anti+fish+farm+fight/12065150/story.html
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On my way, watch the news tonight.lol http://www.theprovince.com/news/local+news/pamela+anderson+joins+anti+fish+farm+fight/12065150/story.html
Let the carnival tour begin. :)
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Pictures I took today are on FB for the curious PAP boys and will have all the vid's up in the days ahead for you to enjoy and to PAP. ;D ;D
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sea-shepherd-society-pamela-anderson-1.3684019
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We did stop there and because of the Fraser River Gravel Stewardship Comittee that I have a small part of no major gravel extractions have taken place the last few years.
Recently some meetings have taken place on this subject which I am sure you are aware in the capacity of your work or at least some others in the department. If you have not I am sure you can find out. :P
I guess Eddie played a major role also in pausing these activities?
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sea-shepherd-society-pamela-anderson-1.3684019
What will gathering mussels to test for the presence of PRV around fish farms and elsewhere attempt to prove? PRV has been showed to be ubiquitous in farmed salmon and has been shown to exist in wild salmon and trout in BC waters showing no signs of disease. 2007 is incorrectly quoted in the news article as PRV has been demonstrated to be much longer than that. Why isn't there any planned PRV testing in Alaskan and Washington State waters during this boondoggle trip? Still waiting for evidence from Ms Morton that supports her claim that transferred Marine Harvest farmed salmon were in fact diseased. Again, this is mainly for publicity in order to make it appear like they are mainstream science when in reality it's just for show.
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I guess Eddie played a major role also in pausing these activities?
Diversion tactics SS. :P
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The first video I filmed yesterday. https://youtu.be/LYEw5XrJHus
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It was so reassuring to see on the global news last night and this morning that the fish farm representative says that less than 1% of the farm fish have viruses that would be of concern to wild salmon. Given the millions 's of fish out there in pens exactly how many tens of thousands of fish does this percentile represent?
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Looks like Doc Morton got corrected once again. I must say she puts on a good show lol :)
http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BCSFA_CorrectionDocument_Sea-Shepherd_July18_Final-1.pdf
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Diversion tactics SS. :P
I guess the support from certain groups is just too important than to rock the boat?
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It was so reassuring to see on the global news last night and this morning that the fish farm representative says that less than 1% of the farm fish have viruses that would be of concern to wild salmon. Given the millions 's of fish out there in pens exactly how many tens of thousands of fish does this percentile represent?
Not to mention all the wild salmon that can already carry endemic pathogens. Reassuring that Morton is going to get to the bottom of this by testing mussels.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/pamela-anderson-gets-screwed-on-a-boat-again/
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http://theprovince.com/opinion/opinion-our-nation-needs-aquaculture-not-celebrity-activists
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http://www.campbellrivermirror.com/business/387837162.html?mobile=true
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http://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/4057-2/
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Operation Summer Boondoggle is in high gear it seems
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Operation Summer Boondoggle is in high gear it seems
Depends what side of the fence you are on or should I say ocean located net pen. ;D ;D ;D
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/meeting-fish-farmer/
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https://www.utoronto.ca/news/what-brought-sea-louse-epidemic-bc-salmon-u-t-researchers-explain
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/salmon-wild-aquaculture-1.3687385
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https://youtu.be/g7EQklfNUsY
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seems crazy.
what about a plan to resolve this problem ?
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seems crazy.
what about a plan to resolve this problem ?
We keep trying but as usual big business seems to rein even at the cost of our environment and in this case wild salmon.
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https://youtu.be/g7EQklfNUsY
"
Corrections to Alexandra Morton statements:
Morton claims she won a “landmark court decision” which “ruled that the salmon farming industry
could no longer stock their farms with diseased fish.”
This statement grossly misrepresents the court ruling. A B.C. salmon farm’s aquaculture license to operate has always ensured only healthy fish are transferred from freshwater hatcheries to ocean farms. The final ruling in this case asked for the licenser (Fisheries and Oceans Canada) to amend the aquaculture license to ensure the decision to transfer fish was that of the Minister, and could not be delegated.
“... so as it stands today, salmon farming industry cannot put piscine reovirus infected fish into the net pens unless they get express permission from the Fisheries and Oceans Minister to transfer diseased fish”.
This is incorrect, and purposely confuses a common benign fish virus with disease. Piscine reovirus (PRV) is a commonly found virus in the ocean (a single drop of sea water contains a million viruses) and is known to have been present for decades or more – it is not new to this coast and is not a disease. No research in British Columbia has confirmed a causal link between the PRV virus and any disease.
Morton claims she first discovered PRV – which according to her was likely to have arrived from Norway somewhere around 2007.
This statement is false. PRV was first detected in fish on the Pacific Northwest by Dr. Kristi Miller, and follow up molecular testing of archival samples has shown it to be present in salmonids in the Pacific Ocean since at least 1988."
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"
Corrections to Alexandra Morton statements:
Morton claims she won a “landmark court decision” which “ruled that the salmon farming industry
could no longer stock their farms with diseased fish.”
This statement grossly misrepresents the court ruling. A B.C. salmon farm’s aquaculture license to operate has always ensured only healthy fish are transferred from freshwater hatcheries to ocean farms. The final ruling in this case asked for the licenser (Fisheries and Oceans Canada) to amend the aquaculture license to ensure the decision to transfer fish was that of the Minister, and could not be delegated.
“... so as it stands today, salmon farming industry cannot put piscine reovirus infected fish into the net pens unless they get express permission from the Fisheries and Oceans Minister to transfer diseased fish”.
This is incorrect, and purposely confuses a common benign fish virus with disease. Piscine reovirus (PRV) is a commonly found virus in the ocean (a single drop of sea water contains a million viruses) and is known to have been present for decades or more – it is not new to this coast and is not a disease. No research in British Columbia has confirmed a causal link between the PRV virus and any disease.
Morton claims she first discovered PRV – which according to her was likely to have arrived from Norway somewhere around 2007.
This statement is false. PRV was first detected in fish on the Pacific Northwest by Dr. Kristi Miller, and follow up molecular testing of archival samples has shown it to be present in salmonids in the Pacific Ocean since at least 1988."
We now know where Bob works. ;D
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Nice diversion tactic Chris. Lets stay on topic. :)
When did Doc Morton ever get anything right?
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We keep trying but as usual big business seems to rein even at the cost of our environment and in this case wild salmon.
You mean activists keep trying but somehow their credibility is lacking along with their evidence. Like the fact that there is no evidence that PRV actually causes disease. Like the fact that Morton has never provided evidence that those now infamous, transferred Marine Harvest fish that were suspected as having PRV and being diseased were in fact diseased. As we both know by now, wild and farm fish can have PRV but not show clinical signs of disease. Wild fish injected with the virus can have high levels of PRV for weeks but not develop disease. In order for activists to be successful in proving their case with things like PRV they need to overcome these and provide evidence to the contrary.
Don't blame big business for activists not being able to get their facts straight (which is oddly the title of this thread). You need to get your act together and provide evidence - not just a bunch rhetoric. Also fish farmers are working with people like Miller. What involvement does Morton have with this Fish Health Initiative? Answer: none. Instead, she is on this public relations boat trip, taking photos, testing mussels and blogging about, masquerading it as some big scientific effort. There's nothing scientific about. You need to realize the real short comings and quit making excuses. When you start doing that then people like me might have a different opinion about your efforts.
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http://www.thetyee.ca/News/2016/07/25/Sea-Lice-Young-Salmon/
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The headline makes it sound explosive where in fact the findings look average.
"
Since the early 2000s, there has been much study on sea lice prevalence on B.C.’s wild and farm-raised salmon. This has provided researchers, and salmon farmers, with a much better understanding of trends of sea lice abundance in the ocean, and what environmental factors may drive the annual variability of sea lice. For example, in 2015, researchers noted an increase in sea lice prevalence on juvenile wild salmon compared to the previous year. This occurrence was quite similar to levels observed in 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2010, and much lower than levels observed in 2004."
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Make sure you quote the right section, Bob:
Between 2006 and 2014 researchers typically recorded that only 30 per cent of the wild migrating juveniles were infected with sea lice, which feed on the skin and flesh of young fish.
But last year approximately 70 per cent of young pink and chum salmon carried the parasite.
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With a record run of Pinks and warm water temps in 2015, I would expect a natural higher count in sea lice. After all, Doc Morton said herself that she did not find any significant difference in sea lice counts in areas that do not have farms to areas that do.
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Just the ideal place for Atlantics (warning -good news)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/inverness-anglers-salmon-fisher-restoration-1.3696335
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/are-they-really-shepherds/
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/dfo-allowed-visit-venture-point-salmon-farm/
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/dfo-allowed-visit-venture-point-salmon-farm/
Morton is trying to manufacture another crisis I see. Shocker.
She received a prompt response from Marine Harvest and DFO yet she continues to speculate. Her only evidence are her own observations from a boat. Cermaq even put out a press release stating that samples were being taken for testing.
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/low+oxygen+at+venture+point+sea+site+in+okisollo+channel
Aeration is not a guaranteed solution to prevent fish kill. It's not unlike the situation many of our small lakes with little to no flow face in the winter. Stressed fish can become more prone to impacts of pathogens. That's why the company is trying to reduce as much of that stress as possible. For Morton to continue to refer to herself as a fisheries biologist is laughable. If she is so focused on testing these fish then she should cough up the funds herself or ask Pam for a loan. She wouldn't even trust the results anyway from DFO so what's the point.
She certainly is not seen as some saviour to area by all folks during her travels. I see not all First Nations in the area are welcoming her arrival. Voyage for Dollars continues.....
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Poor Almo, her credibility is going down as fast as Pam did in her famous video.
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Poor Almo, her credibility is going down as fast as Pam did in her famous video.
Looking bad every day for those still loving the FF, lost in the wilderness you and the PAP gang are. ;D ;D
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/4388-2/
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Looking bad every day for those still loving the FF, lost in the wilderness you and the PAP gang are. ;D ;D
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/4388-2/
Publicity stunt.....
Taking photos and speculating isn't scientific research. It's called propaganda.
She says she doesn't speak half truths but her quote from Cohen is exactly that. Cohen had more to say than that. She's just cherry picking. Her paper along with other coauthors that tried to slam a fish processing plant a few years ago was full of half truths and some no truths even. Morton exists as an icon in her own mind.
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The traveling voyage for "doh" continues to be entertaining at best. Doc Morton sure seems to ask a lot of questions that she does not want to hear the answer to. You are right Dave, the Doc is going down, but not near as fast as Pam did :)
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The traveling voyage for "doh" continues to be entertaining at best. Doc Morton sure seems to ask a lot of questions that she does not want to hear the answer to. You are right Dave, the Doc is going down, but not near as fast as Pam did :)
Careful with some of this message as this is a family friendly forum. :-[
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Careful with some of this message as this is a family friendly forum. :-[
Read into it what you wish to hear Chris and make it the way you want (which you appear to be very good at). After all Chris, it is your own "choice" on how you want to read what I wrote. :)
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Poor Almo, her credibility is going down as fast as Pam did in her famous video.
I was sure surprised when almo hooked up with sea Shepard and Pam. Big mistake I think but certainly revealing of almo's true colours which I have suspected all along.
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Read into it what you wish to hear Chris and make it the way you want (which you appear to be very good at). After all Chris, it is your own "choice" on how you want to read what I wrote. :)
Everyone knows what you were saying, not very respectful to this forum that prides itself in its content since 2002 when I first met Rod and this fishing forum was getting started.
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Poor Almo, her credibility is going down as fast as Pam did in her famous video.
Disappointed in you that you would say this on this family forum. :-[
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Everyone knows what you were saying, not very respectful to this forum that prides itself in its content since 2002 when I first met Rod and this fishing forum was getting started.
Then we could say nothing has really changed Chris, especially when all you have done is dodge questions that I just thought you could teach me on. :( Sad but true I think. :)
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
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Then we could say nothing has really changed Chris. Sad but true I think. :)
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
Thanks for posting this again and as it says, "We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture." ::)
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Thanks for posting this again and as it says, "We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture." ::)
It seems nothing has changed since you got on here. But still is entertaining. Keep up your grand stand and dodge the questions. Btw I do not see a donate for "DOH" on my links. :)
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It seems nothing has changed since you got on here. But still is entertaining. Keep up your grand stand and dodge the questions. Btw I do not see a donate for "DOH" on my links. :)
Been here since 2002 with you still a new chap not even 4 years but a good amount of posts with nearly 1,000 posts but all FF related, interesting fact to some. ;D ;D ;D
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Been here since 2002 with you still a new chap not even 4 years but a good amount of posts with nearly 1,000 posts but all FF related, interesting fact to some. ;D ;D ;D
Perhaps instead of attacking me, you can answer the questions I asked when I started on here. All you and the aff's have done is dodge them. It seems that you are reverting back to that dodge mentality Chris. This should be easy for you by now after all this time Chris. Since 2002 you should be up to date on this.
What science has shown farmed salmon has harmed wild salmon?
What has Doc Morton got right?
Back to you :)
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Morton and the Sea Shepherd Society boat, including supporting vessels, were asked to keep their distance following yet another explanation of the situation. Instead they declined to cooperate and are hell bent on continuing this circus which they refer to as "research".
http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/protesters-disregard-fish-welfare/
How do you think fish behave when birds fly over them? So when a drone flies over them how do you think they might react?
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Perhaps instead of attacking me, you can answer the questions I asked when I started on here. All you and the aff's have done is dodge them. It seems that you are reverting back to that dodge mentality Chris. This should be easy for you by now after all this time Chris. Since 2002 you should be up to date on this.
What science has shown farmed salmon has harmed wild salmon?
What has Doc Morton got right?
Back to you :)
No matter what we say you will pick it apart, so will continue the, "dodge". ;D Away from the forum for a few days, so you can take a rest too and go back to farming. :P
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No matter what we say you will pick it apart, so will continue the, "dodge". ;D Away from the forum for a few days, so you can take a rest too and go back to farming. :P
Speculating at its best. keep it up :)
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Disappointed in you that you would say this on this family forum. :-[
The one you should be disappointed with is Almo for agreeing to this farce.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/captain-paul-watson-and-his-tin-foil-hat/
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Here is a photo from Almo where she actually shows a random non-selected sample. Hmmm, no lice. Another morton slip up. [img]
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Here is a photo from Almo where she actually shows a random non-selected sample. Hmmm, no lice. Another morton slip up. [img]
No picture, did you change your mind about posting it?lol
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I am having an issue with posting photo's here but I will get it up for you chris once I have this resolved.
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I am having an issue with posting photo's here but I will get it up for you chris once I have this resolved.
Thanks, I find it easier to post on FB, so quick, maybe you are not on it lol If so check out the Fraser Valley salmon Society page if you do not. I donot often put FF issue up there as the administrator. :P
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More Pam for Dave and Fisherbob, what remarks will they make this time. ::) https://youtu.be/OK8iQWwm-QM
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http://www.thetyee.ca/News/2016/08/08/Fish-Farm-Patrolling-Martin-Sheen/
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http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/feature-on-salmon-farming-concerns-over-diseases-on-bc-coast
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/captain-paul-watson-and-his-tin-foil-hat/
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Here is a photo from Almo where she actually shows a random non-selected sample. Hmmm, no lice. Another morton slip up. (http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad287/aquapaloosa/13391426_1827019940859892_964924895622917352_o_zpsd01e7e2f.jpg)
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More Pam for Dave and Fisherbob, what remarks will they make this time. ::) https://youtu.be/OK8iQWwm-QM
Brilliant.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fisheries-minister-dominic-leblanc-sockeye-fraser-river-declining-1.3713332?cmp=rss&CMP=news-digests-british-columbia
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/sea-shepherd-honoured/
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Unbelievable how Morton can continue calling herself a biologist when she posts stuff like this:
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/dzawadaenuxw-board-salmon-farms-territory/
Such a dramatic and highly exaggerated blog post about decaying fish in a tote. What do you think happens to dead salmon on a riverbank? Maggots not very appetizing? Of course not, but how do you think they get there? Ever heard of flies, Alex? Doesn't smell good? It's not supposed to because....they are dead, decaying fish. Instead let's play the disease card and speculate based on apparent hemorrhaging under the skin. When fish decay they can have a multitude of pathogens in them. Doesn't mean that is how they died. Cell structure also breaks down. That is how decomposition works. If it's warm outside those processes excellerate. Maybe some of the elementary school kids that tour the spawning grounds can be explain this to Ms Morton, "salmon biologist".
Oh, I'm really in awe how Ms Morton can identify wild salmon from a head and vertebrae. If she has her crystal ball or taro cards with her she can probably determine species, sex and stock also. Such responsible and objective biological work. Operation Summer Boondoggle continues.........
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Tell us how you really feel Steve, lol!!
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http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/cermaq+statement+on+recent+protest+activity
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/historic-day-wild-salmon/
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Hello
The Musgamagw Dzawada’enuxw First Nations are a group of 4 Tribes. One third of the BC salmon farming exists in their territory (Broughton Archipelago) despite nearly 30 years of opposition. The salmon farming industry does not have permission to operate in Musgamagw Dzawada'enuxw territory.
Last spring up to 40% of the young salmon leaving their territory were killed by sea lice from Cermaq and Marine Harvest salmon farms. Today they are evicting the Norwegian/Japanese salmon farming industry from their territory.
This video below is going viral on facebook, 37,000 views in less than 24 hours
First Nation evict Norwegian salmon farms
If you don't have facebook, you can view the Youtube version of the film at https://youtu.be/9WgWotb97Lk
You can follow this developing situation at:
www.cleansingourwaters.com
Alexandra Morton
www.voyageforsalmon.ca
____________________________________________________________
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Sure would be nice to see some real honest Doc Morton science out of all this for a change. :)
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Sure would be nice to see some real honest Doc Morton science out of all this for a change. :)
looking like they are on the way out now.http://cleansingourwaters.com/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/72-hours-to-vacate-first-nation-gives-eviction-notice-to-salmon-farm-1.3728860
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Have been glad to be part of this for the last few years there will not be much more SS, Dave and FB and a couple of other poster will be saying now one would think.
https://youtu.be/7rZyVDTRsDo
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Have been glad to be part of this for the last few years there will not be much more SS, Dave and FB and a couple of other poster will be saying now one would think.
https://youtu.be/7rZyVDTRsDo
Good move by Morton to get First Nations to fight her battles so she can keep her hands cleaner but sad that they are being manipulated and used like this. Morton has them so convinced that disease is running rampant on fish farms with nothing more than her misinformed opinion. You would think that if disease was so prevalent as indicated in the video that there would be thousands and thousands of morts. Instead, Morton has this particular First Nation convinced that the dead Atlantic Salmon (not wild Pacific Salmon as alleged) in these totes represent the actual population on the farm. No big achievement on her part. No science. Just need a camera, access to social media, and maybe some high profile help from Hollywood actors/actresses and activists. Just goes to show how some use the power of social media to strike fear and misinform. I also feel bad for those fish farm employees who are put in a difficult situation where need to secure the farm, but tread a fine so that the situation doesn't get more inflamed.
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Good move by Morton to get First Nations to fight her battles so she can keep her hands cleaner but sad that they are being manipulated and used like this. Morton has them so convinced that diesese is running rampant on fish farms with nothing more than her misinformed opinion. You would think that if diesese was so prevalent as indicated in the video that there would be thousands and thousands of morts. Instead, Morton has this particular First Nation convinced that the dead Atlantic Salmon (not wild Pacific Salmon as alleged) in these totes represent the actual population on the farm. No big achievement on her part. No science. Just need a camera, access to social media, and maybe some high profile help from Hollywood actors/actresses and activists. Just goes to show how some use the power of social media to strike fear and misinform. I also feel bad for those fish farm employees who are put in a difficult situation where need to secure the farm, but tread a fine so that situation doesn't get more inflamed.
Just to put the record straight, First Nations have been involved with this situation for a long time.
Not a big deal but you may wish to correct your spelling of disease.
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Just to put the record straight, First Nations have been involved with this situation for a long time.
Not a big deal but you may wish to correct your spelling of disease.
Would that record include Morton's involvement with them? Do you believe she has very little or a great deal of influence in their decisions about fish farms?
Thanks for noticing the typo. I will correct it, but I have given your posts an easy ride in that department.
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Would that record include Morton's involvement with them? Do you believe she has very little or a great deal of influence in their decisions about fish farms?
Thanks for noticing the typo. I will correct it, but I have given your posts an easy ride in that department.
Yes, but I donot have much of an education, in that department or Math too Terry B. tells me.lol
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Yes, but I donot have much of an education, in that department or Math too Terry B. tells me.lol
I like chocolate donots.
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"In fact, average annual returns of pink salmon have been higher during the 15 years since salmon farming began in the Broughton than they were during the previous 35 years."
http://greenspiritstrategies.com/alexandra-morton/
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/08/25/RCMP-Arrest-Indigenous-Fish-Farm-Protestors/
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/08/25/RCMP-Arrest-Indigenous-Fish-Farm-Protestors/
I was in Vancouver yesterday on the front lines filming and taking pictures, This is the first of 12 I filmed. I did not get arrested and the Vancouver Police where very helpful as we set up on the center of the street for part of the rally in support of those that were arrested. FB and SS will love to attack us on this action. ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/vdWxekTVZhY
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/first-hard-evidence/
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"That same year the federal government paid $4.1 million to two other corporations for the loss of farmed fish from the same virus in B.C. waters. The federal government has compensated corporate fish farms for disease losses with nearly $100 million in payments since 2011."
Nothing like a nice payday if things go wrong. Foreign corporations getting wads of Canadian taxpayer cash because things didn't work out. Defend that gravy boat boys.
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https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/first-hard-evidence/
This is a great example of why so many of us consider Almo a joke. She gets herself in a tizzy over an Atlantic salmon eating a juvenile herring, but sits idle and says nothing when commercial boats harvest thousands of tons of adult herring annually ??? As Bassonator used to say, it is to laugh.
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Defend that gravy boat boys.
That has been defended many time before on this site Nova. Take it up with the CFIA as it's their regulations. Or maybe lobby your MP and see where that gets you ;D
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The defence is:
It is no different from a chicken farm that gets wiped out by bird flu.
However, not too many chicken farmers locate their farms next to known sources of infection.
The effect of the virus in Pacific salmon on Atlantic salmon should prohibit Altantics from ever being raised here.
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This is a great example of why so many of us consider Almo a joke. She gets herself in a tizzy over an Atlantic salmon eating a juvenile herring, but sits idle and says nothing when commercial boats harvest thousands of tons of adult herring annually ??? As Bassonator used to say, it is to laugh.
Ya, this is pathetic. Those fish are dropping out of the population so they are near the surface at the edges looking not so great. You see this in fish hatcheries as well. What she doesn't show you is the other 99% of the population doing fine schooling normally. This sampling strategy is the same method she uses when showing see lice. Only showing what she hopes to be a gullible public. Nothing new here, far from proof of anything other than her selective sampling display.
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That has been defended many time before on this site Nova. Take it up with the CFIA as it's their regulations. Or maybe lobby your MP and see where that gets you ;D
You can't defend the indefensible.
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The defence is:
It is no different from a chicken farm that gets wiped out by bird flu.
However, not too many chicken farmers locate their farms next to known sources of infection.
The effect of the virus in Pacific salmon on Atlantic salmon should prohibit Altantics from ever being raised here.
As the thread title says....Get your facts straight.....
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-in-birds.htm
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"That same year the federal government paid $4.1 million to two other corporations for the loss of farmed fish from the same virus in B.C. waters. The federal government has compensated corporate fish farms for disease losses with nearly $100 million in payments since 2011."
Nothing like a nice payday if things go wrong. Foreign corporations getting wads of Canadian taxpayer cash because things didn't work out. Defend that gravy boat boys.
Again as the thread title says.....Get your facts straight....
https://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/blog/blogger+errs+again+in+claims+about+salmon+farms+and+compensation
Same legislation that pays compensation to other livestock in the event of a disease outbreak where the producer is ordered by law to destroy the impacted and potentially impacted animals/birds. The compensation is nothing compared to what the livestock would be worth at market size so the producers are not making money from this. Lastly, and has been mentioned many times already, fish farmers that preemptively destroy there farmed fish before any order and confirmation of disease are not compensated by the legislation. Those are the facts.....jack.
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I was in Vancouver yesterday on the front lines filming and taking pictures, This is the first of 12 I filmed. I did not get arrested and the Vancouver Police where very helpful as we set up on the center of the street for part of the rally in support of those that were arrested. FB and SS will love to attack us on this action. ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/vdWxekTVZhY
First, I'm glad you didn't get arrested. Second, I don't "love" to attack you on this. It has nothing to do with attacking. Your leadership is making either false claims or is exaggerating things too much. They are inciting fear amongst First Nations who are basically be used because they have more political clout than the people on that sail boat. You need to start looking around and see what's going on with the ocean these days. Maybe wonder why anchovies are flourishing here for example. Instead First Nations are being sold the idea that if fish farms are gone from their territory there will be great runs of salmon again. Meanwhile, commercial fisherman clearly were caught breaking the rules and nobody from this boat says boo about. Morton figures it's best to keep good relations with these fisherman by saying the department was harassing them. Really?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fisheries-and-oceans-crackdown-northern-bc-1.3708492
By all means, stand with these people, Chris, but don't think the rest of us or going to give critics a free pass on this.
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Ya, this is pathetic. Those fish are dropping out of the population so they are near the surface at the edges looking not so great. You see this in fish hatcheries as well. What she doesn't show you is the other 99% of the population doing fine schooling normally. This sampling strategy is the same method she uses when showing see lice. Only showing what she hopes to be a gullible public. Nothing new here, far from proof of anything other than her selective sampling display.
What Morton just posted was one of the most insanely, idiotic things I have ever heard. She doesn't come close to being rational. This is probably one of the worst pieces of propaganda yet from her. Once again, an edited video clip showing only a very small fraction of the population. Doesn't take in consideration that some fish, even on fish hatcheries, do not look or behave like the rest. She omitted the fact that these fish were recently exposed to low dissolved oxygen concentrations where they were not fed until oxygen levels were favourable again. Feeding during times of stress would have made the situation worse. It also didn't help matters having Morton and her entourage in close proximity during this low dissolved oxygen event.
She takes video of fish and begins to speculate on their condition. Morton is back on with the Furunculosis bandwagon but as history shows she knows very little about it.
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/18/alexandra-mortons-furunculosis-fable/
She also uses the video to start identifying juvenile fish which she couldn't do the first time. There was no mention of the recent story about the large abundance of anchovy in our waters. The warming of our local marine environment has resulted in more southern species, including anchovies, to be more successful here. Morton likely can't tell the difference between a juvenile herring and a stone fly.
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/anchovy-schools-are-back-in-session-with-phenomenal-numbers-spawning-in-howe-sound
The by-catch argument was probably the most insane. It would not be uncommon for farmed salmon of that size or even wild salmon of similar size to go after smaller juvenile fish species. Then to blame BC fish farmers for using them as food for the farmed fish is absolutely ludicrous. Top it off with the very muted response to the recent illegal commercial fishing practices by saying "just a couple of wild fish aboard". It was more than just a couple. What arrogance and ignorance. Those few could represent most of the fish from smaller, more depressed populations. It astounds me that there are people that can take her seriously.
First hard evidence? Whatever. Lol.
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First, I'm glad you didn't get arrested. Second, I don't "love" to attack you on this. It has nothing to do with attacking. Your leadership is making either false claims or is exaggerating things too much. They are inciting fear amongst First Nations who are basically be used because they have more political clout than the people on that sail boat. You need to start looking around and see what's going on with the ocean these days. Maybe wonder why anchovies are flourishing here for example. Instead First Nations are being sold the idea that if fish farms are gone from their territory there will be great runs of salmon again. Meanwhile, commercial fisherman clearly were caught breaking the rules and nobody from this boat says boo about. Morton figures it's best to keep good relations with these fisherman by saying the department was harassing them. Really?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fisheries-and-oceans-crackdown-northern-bc-1.3708492
By all means, stand with these people, Chris, but don't think the rest of us or going to give critics a free pass on this.
"They are inciting fear among First Nations who are basically be used because they have more political clout than the people on that sail boat."
First Nations as many of us know have a right to be fearful when one looks what we have done to them and there way of life since we arrived on their land, all in less than 200 years, shameful is putting it politely. In many cases the department you work for has, in some of our minds have not done a very good job of looking after our fish stocks, not only here in BC but the East Coast as well.
I am not blaming you and others in the lower parts of the department but those making the major decision have not done the best of jobs as has the governments in power.
One can still hope the new government may be able to right the ship. (Sea Shepard's Martin Sheen)lol but we must give them a chance too.
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Hey so wanna know how all the Morton haters are rationalizing away her latest video showing pretty nasty looking fish. Truly disgusting...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzqvfpvc7A
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Hey so wanna know how all the Morton haters are rationalizing away her latest video showing pretty nasty looking fish. Truly disgusting...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzqvfpvc7A
Read back a few responses.
Just curious swtf, do you have anything relevant to add to this discussion? You know, something new?
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This will be great, hope Dave will come down to Vancouver and ask all the questions he wants answers too.
The Musgamagw Dzawada’enuxw in collaboration with Sea Shepherd and Alexandra Morton call for your support as we, in assertion of our indigenous rights, deliver a message to remove fish farms from our traditional territories to the governments of British Columbia and Canada.
Delegates T'łat'łagwoł (Melissa Willie), Chief Okwilagame (Willie Moon), K'wak'wabalas (Ernest Alfred) & Chief Waxawidi (William Wasden Jr) will be departing with the crew of the R/V Martin Sheen & Alexandra Morton from Campbell River, Monday August 29th, 1:00 pm
The ship will stopover in the following locations (times may change depending on conditions) :
Comox - Tuesday, August 30th 11:00 am
Nanaimo - Wednesday, August 31st 3:00 pm
Victoria Inner Harbour - Saturday, September 3rd 1:00 pm
Vancouver - Monday, September 5th 1:00 pm
We request your support to unite in solidarity with all indigenous nations, who also face industrial exploitation of their ancestral territories, to come and add your voice to these rallies.
"The wild salmon connect all of us, they migrate through all of our territories. We depend on it. So let's link arms and come together. I also ask British Columbians, I know a lot of you don't agree with fish farming - link arms with us!" Chief Ol’ Siwid (Mike Willie)
For further information on this movement see
Our Website: cleansingourwaters.com
Facebook Page: Musgamagw Dzawada'enuxw Cleansing Our Waters
Twitter: fishfarmsgetout@fishfarmsout
Instagram: cleansingourwaters
http://www.seashepherd.org/
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/
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Read back a few responses.
Just curious swtf, do you have anything relevant to add to this discussion? You know, something new?
I tried but this thread gets pretty thick. Lot's of facts that are having to be 'straightened' I suppose.
Spare me the deep dive back 5 pages... I'm sure you or farmerB could update me on how smolts being attracted to farm feed pellets and in turn either predated or in close proximity to clearly quite ill and diseased fish is somehow no big deal.
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This will be great, hope Dave will come down to Vancouver and ask all the questions he wants answers too.
The Musgamagw Dzawada’enuxw in collaboration with Sea Shepherd and Alexandra Morton call for your support as we, in assertion of our indigenous rights, deliver a message to remove fish farms from our traditional territories to the governments of British Columbia and Canada.
Delegates T'łat'łagwoł (Melissa Willie), Chief Okwilagame (Willie Moon), K'wak'wabalas (Ernest Alfred) & Chief Waxawidi (William Wasden Jr) will be departing with the crew of the R/V Martin Sheen & Alexandra Morton from Campbell River, Monday August 29th, 1:00 pm
The ship will stopover in the following locations (times may change depending on conditions) :
Comox - Tuesday, August 30th 11:00 am
Nanaimo - Wednesday, August 31st 3:00 pm
Victoria Inner Harbour - Saturday, September 3rd 1:00 pm
Vancouver - Monday, September 5th 1:00 pm
We request your support to unite in solidarity with all indigenous nations, who also face industrial exploitation of their ancestral territories, to come and add your voice to these rallies.
"The wild salmon connect all of us, they migrate through all of our territories. We depend on it. So let's link arms and come together. I also ask British Columbians, I know a lot of you don't agree with fish farming - link arms with us!" Chief Ol’ Siwid (Mike Willie)
For further information on this movement see
Our Website: cleansingourwaters.com
Facebook Page: Musgamagw Dzawada'enuxw Cleansing Our Waters
Twitter: fishfarmsgetout@fishfarmsout
Instagram: cleansingourwaters
http://www.seashepherd.org/
https://www.voyageforsalmon.ca/
Thanks Chris I will share widely.
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First, I'm glad you didn't get arrested. Second, I don't "love" to attack you on this. It has nothing to do with attacking. Your leadership is making either false claims or is exaggerating things too much. They are inciting fear amongst First Nations who are basically be used because they have more political clout than the people on that sail boat. You need to start looking around and see what's going on with the ocean these days. Maybe wonder why anchovies are flourishing here for example. Instead First Nations are being sold the idea that if fish farms are gone from their territory there will be great runs of salmon again. Meanwhile, commercial fisherman clearly were caught breaking the rules and nobody from this boat says boo about. Morton figures it's best to keep good relations with these fisherman by saying the department was harassing them. Really?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fisheries-and-oceans-crackdown-northern-bc-1.3708492
By all means, stand with these people, Chris, but don't think the rest of us or going to give critics a free pass on this.
Just curious about the hatchery argument because last time I checked ALL where on land not on migratory routes.Am I missing something?
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I tried but this thread gets pretty thick. Lot's of facts that are having to be 'straightened' I suppose.
Spare me the deep dive back 5 pages... I'm sure you or farmerB could update me on how smolts being attracted to farm feed pellets and in turn either predated or in close proximity to clearly quite ill and diseased fish is somehow no big deal.
Why should you be spared some background reading - it might bring you up to speed.
What smolts? Are you referring to the small fish shown to be eaten in Almo's video?
Have you visited a salmon hatchery and observed the juvenile fish (or adult broodstock) on the perimetry of rearing channels or pens? if so you know not all fish are looking their best .. that's life in general and especially so in a fish pond.
Again, bring us something new. I and others will be all over it because we are truly interested but this is all old stuff and frankly regurgitating old info is getting boring.
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Just curious about the hatchery argument because last time I checked ALL where on land not on migratory routes.Am I missing something?
I don't know what you are referring to so I cannot say whether you are missing something or not.
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"They are inciting fear among First Nations who are basically be used because they have more political clout than the people on that sail boat."
First Nations as many of us know have a right to be fearful when one looks what we have done to them and there way of life since we arrived on their land, all in less than 200 years, shameful is putting it politely. In many cases the department you work for has, in some of our minds have not done a very good job of looking after our fish stocks, not only here in BC but the East Coast as well.
I am not blaming you and others in the lower parts of the department but those making the major decision have not done the best of jobs as has the governments in power.
One can still hope the new government may be able to right the ship. (Sea Shepard's Martin Sheen)lol but we must give them a chance too.
As you post these recent links you haven't attempted to defend these conclusions or address any of the issues some of us have with them. Why not? I mean if these recent claims from Morton are justification for this injustice you speak about then you should be able to articulate to me how these claims make sense. Do you agree with Morton's characterization of recent Departmental action towards those commercial fishermen in the article I posted?
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https://petitions.parl.gc.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-463
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Signed the petition, thanks for the link Chris.
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So the pro boys club thinks we should invite foreign companies in and when they fail we just throw open the cash drawer and toss them our money. Makes perfect sense - to the offshore owned companies. When they win they win and when they lose they win. With our tax dollars. That is patently ridiculous. I don't agree with pay outs or bail outs for Canadian business let alone foreign nationals sucking on Canada's teat.. Yeah I know its been said before but it needs to be said again and again until it's just not done any more. Sink or swim, but don't expect my wallet to fly open. I run a small business that's had good times and tough times but I never got one plugged nickel when the chips were down nor did I expect anything. But its a-OK for the feedlots that ship the profits offshore and to belly up to the tax trough. Just plain weird.
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016AGRI0049-001545?WT.mc_id=NEWS&WT.cg_n=HootSuite
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016AGRI0049-001545?WT.mc_id=NEWS&WT.cg_n=HootSuite
Not sure if you know or even think about it but there is more to making more money and more money at the expense of the environment and those that call it home, and that includes us.
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http://www.mhssahousaht.ca/news/ahousaht-first-nations-why-we-support-salmon-farming
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Not sure if you know or even think about it but there is more to making more money and more money at the expense of the environment and those that call it home, and that includes us.
I like that statement but there how do recent events by this cruise further our knowledge to protect that environment that you talk about. If you can't defend it or explain it then you should pose questions to those that are professing it. I noticed that you steered clear of criticizing Morton for her comments about recent DFO enforcement of illegal commercial fishing. If that's the case, then I have to take your criticisms of the department with a grain of salt because on one hand you talk about departmental mismanagement of the salmon fishery, but on the other when the department takes action on illegal by catch to protect the fishery you feel is being neglected you have no comment after Morton refers to it as harassment.
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Portions of Morton's "10 minute" video were shown on Global News last night.
Paints a very bad picture for fish farms.
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Portions of Morton's "10 minute" video were shown on Global News last night.
Paints a very bad picture for fish farms.
I just watched that video and it is hard to watch what is going on there. The skinny fish with the heart and skeletal muscle inflammation - that is really disturbing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzqvfpvc7A
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I just watched that video and it is hard to watch what is going on there. The skinny fish with the heart and skeletal muscle inflammation - that is really disturbing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzqvfpvc7A
Proof doesn't matter. Wait for the denial,or the video is rigged; a rant against MS. Morton or some other such nonsense. I do feel sorry for the fish and scorn for the feedlot for not putting those suffering creatures out of their misery.
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Why would Doc Morton not just ask a farmer what they do with the few fish like that? She was right there on the farm. Seems she just does not want to know and I guess speculation gets her more attention.
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well tell us robert, what do you do with a fish when you see it like that? ;)
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Why would Doc Morton not just ask a farmer what they do with the few fish like that? She was right there on the farm. Seems she just does not want to know and I guess speculation gets her more attention.
When mom comes to visit - you clean the dishes and hide the bong.
This is the video Alex took after the farmer most likely already did all in their power to make it as pristine-looking an operation as possible. What does it look like on a normal day when the environment police are not on-site and looking for problems?
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When mom comes to visit - you clean the dishes and hide the bong.
This is the video Alex took after the farmer most likely already did all in their power to make it as pristine-looking an operation as possible. What does it look like on a normal day when the environment police are not on-site and looking for problems?
This is you talking out your butt. You might want to find out more about HSMI and how it's diagnosed and how it isn't.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=tp&crtr.page=1&nid=1069579
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This is you talking out your butt. You might want to find out more about HSMI and how it's diagnosed and how it isn't.
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?mthd=tp&crtr.page=1&nid=1069579
Not the most informative article - but hey - I'm always up for expanding my perspective. Anything with a quote from Hunter Tootoo must be legit ;D
How exactly am I talking out my butt? Was I speaking about specifics of diagnosis of this condition? Nope. I was commenting on the transparency of these operations and their apparent inability to prevent the growth of biological monstrosities and other unnatural conditions that are not beneficial to the natural environment.
I have no financial interest in fish farming. My comments are from the perspective of a concerned citizen of this planet. Outdoorsmen and fishermen should have concerns about the effect open-net pen fish farms have on our wild species such as salmon, trout, herring, anchovies, dogfish, cod, etc.
If images like we saw in Alex's video don't make you the slightest bit uneasy, then I don’t know what to say.
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How exactly am I talking out my butt? Was I speaking about specifics of diagnosis of this condition? Nope.
Actually you were jumping to conclusions without evidence....sort of like the person shooting the video:
I just watched that video and it's hard to watch what is going on there - the skinny fish with heart and skeletal muscular inflammation - that is really disturbing
That's why I posted that link. Facts are right there. You may also want to check out comments from the real scientists themselves like Dr. Kristi-Miller Saunders in regards to this. Also HSMI isn't diagnosed with video.
I was commenting on the transparency of these operations and their apparent inability to prevent the growth of biological monstrosities and other unnatural conditions that are not beneficial to the natural environment.
What do you really know about the transparency of these operations or the situation in question? Cermaq has been quite open with recent conditions on these farms in question if you go to their website. They even explained this recent event to Morton. They also notified federal authorities as they are supposed to. As per fish health protocols samples were taken for testing. Federally reportable diseases are required by law to be reported. What do you know about the applicable Federal legislation that governs the industry or the scientific research that is currently being done? Additionally, if you go to the Cermaq website you will see that they are making efforts to be transparent:
http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/press-room/public+reporting
http://www.marineharvest.ca/planet/environmental_commitment/additional-data-reporting/2016-archive/
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/index-eng.html
What are these "biological monstrosities" you are talking about? What do you know about these monstrosities?
My comments are from the perspective of a concerned citizen of this planet. Outdoorsmen and fishermen should have concerns about the effect open-net pen fish farms have on our wild species such as salmon, trout, herring, anchovies, dogfish, cod, etc.
If images like we saw in Alex's video don't make you the slightest bit uneasy, then I don’t know what to say.
It's good to be concerned. It's also good to be informed. Edited videos like that do not help the general public with being informed. It's meant to shock people without providing any facts or context. The video was very successful in hooking many people; however, videos do not always tell the whole story. You are trusting someone who knows very little about what they are talking about. That should make you feel uneasy.
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Great rally in Vancouver today, for those interested my pictures are on Salmon are Sacred, there was CTV coverage as well, have not checked for the link yet. I filmed most of the rally, will post them as I get them uploaded.
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Great rally in Vancouver today, for those interested my pictures are on Salmon are Sacred, there was CTV coverage as well, have not checked for the link yet. I filmed most of the rally, will post them as I get them uploaded.
One of the video I filmed yesterday, powerful. https://youtu.be/hydcNc2Bfik
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One of the video I filmed yesterday, powerful. https://youtu.be/hydcNc2Bfik
Food trucks downtown must have been busy.
Read some really funny comments by farm critics in one of the recent Tyee articles. Here's my favourite....
What study do you have that tells us that putting millions of fish in one area that is frequented by wild fish will not disrupt the life cycles of the wild fish? For all you know, wild fish may not feel the need to breed because of the unnatural number of salmon in their natural environment. Nature knows how to balance herself. The wild fish may decide there isn't enough food to raise their own young. The only real certainty about man is that the more he knows the more he knows he doesn't know. We are only proving our stupidity by growing fish in a feedlot and our failures to protect the wild stocks.
If he/she is talking about wild salmon they do not raise their young. Most fish do not care for their young, but there are some species that do. However, we are not talking about cichlids and Siamese fighting fish with this issue.
Noticed that Ms Morton chimed in and as usual took off once she was challenged. So much for "Hard Evidence".....so rock solid, but unable to actually defend it. Instead, people that are critical of her recent expedition need to submit responses to scientific journals and have them published in order to get a response. I guess that's why the message and any replies to it are tightly controlled on her sites. Ironically, this is how the Harper Government rolled.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/08/31/First-Nations-Fish-Farm-Eviction-Rallies/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=083116-2&utm_campaign=editorial-0816
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Food trucks downtown must have been busy.
Really?
Federal employees making racist comments...
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Uh, how is that racist?
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Really?
Federal employees making racist comments...
Food trucks that sell food on the street (i.e. mobile restaurants) is racist? Really? Lol
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Vancouver+food+trucks+worth+visit+revisit+with/8798419/story.html
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/what-is-the-future-of-bcs-iconic-fish
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http://universityofcalifornia.edu/news/can-farmed-fish-feed-world-sustainably
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This kinda makes you want to throw up. Look at the wounds.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/humpback-entangled-marine-harvest-klemtu-1.3760833
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The following is just small sample. However, you won't see these mentioned at all by Morton or Salmon Are Sacred.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/minke-whale-freed-from-fishing-gear-in-bay-of-fundy-1.3161794
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/humpback-whale-caught-in-prawn-traps-rescued-near-powell-river-b-c-1.3127890
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/humpback-whales-tangled-in-fishing-lines-off-maritimes-not-uncommon-1.3151069
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/humpback-whale-rescue-underway-on-bay-of-fundy-1.3145207
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/humpback-whale-likely-killed-by-entanglement-near-klemtu-1.3188311
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/blue-whale-entangled-california-1.3656646
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/man-rescues-entangled-humpack-whale-1.3669081
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/whale-entanglements-increasing-off-b-c-coast-1.3174322
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There's always distraction as a tactic for not showing the skid marks on the underwear...... ;)
Hey look Dad - the other lemmings are jumping off of the cliff! Can we do it too?
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Or there's always the pot calling the kettle black....or there's people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...or let he who without sin cast the first stone.....Lots of neat ways to look at it.
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Or those that aren't so bling that they can see the Emperor isn't wearing clothes. Let's see here......According to wiki, humpback whales can and do feed on salmon. Now were there any salmon at the feedlot?It really must be taxing to be right all the time Brian. I heard you were wrong once, but it turns out you were simply mistaken. ;)
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What's taxing is hearing a grown man whine all the time so I will refrain from hurting your feelings anymore with this incident regarding the whale.
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You're confused Steve. Along with many others, we're just over the moon with joy that you come down from the Mount to impart your higher levels of non partisan wisdom onb us little people.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/giphy_zpsf7ubseot.gif) (http://s158.photobucket.com/user/Willy1956/media/giphy_zpsf7ubseot.gif.html)
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Not confused at all....When the discussion doesn't go your way you start complaining then you make this personal. Look what you are doing now. It would be really easy to be impulsive and jab back, but this merry-go-round gets boring and it detracts from the issue.
This isn't about me being right and you being wrong - it's about providing some balance to show that whales are also injured in commercial nets. It's not nice in either circumstance for the whale and it certainly doesn't mean because one sector is doing it that it's fine for others. However, before critics start pointing fingers at fish farms they should realize that this isn't at all isolated to just fish farms. The fact is that thousands of cetaceans are caught and injured in commercial nets and fishing gear each year - not just here but in other places in the world. Kind of a big fact to ignore.
Salmon Are Sacred folks just vilify fish farms for this and make it appear as a problem with aquaculture alone which it's not. Not one member on that site (a site of apparent conservationists) mentioned the obvious omission. Then Alexandra Morton uses this as a lead in to start talking about fish farms attracting whales which are attracted to the herring that are apparently feeding on feed pellets, but fails to mention the fact that the farm site in question had no nets or fish at the time. Despite this, I'm sure Marine Harvest will want to review what happened in order to prevent this from happening again because it's not in their best interests to have this happen. Instead of pointing fingers at Marine Harvest at what they plan to do to prevent this from happening again, Morton might want to inquire from her supporters in the commercial industry about what they are doing to reduce these incidents with cetaceans themselves.
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http://m.thetelegram.com/News/Regional/2016-09-19/article-4644764/Senators-fans-of-fish-farms,-report-says-aquaculture-industry-should-double-in-size/1
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http://m.thetelegram.com/News/Regional/2016-09-19/article-4644764/Senators-fans-of-fish-farms,-report-says-aquaculture-industry-should-double-in-size/1
Who said the Senate was useless?
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Who said the Senate was useless?
Let's go back Dave to the post where you said you don't care or wouldn't bother to read up on the damage done back east .....and now it's all good? I also verydistinctly remember you expressing doubts about east coast salmon farming - live and in person :o I've got a great memory. :)
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32635.msg375976#msg375976
a few pearls from one company - just one!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/aquaculture-company-on-the-hook-for-500k-for-pesticide-use-1.1317105
http://www.southcoasttoday.ca/content/cooke-aquaculture-charged-environment-canada-illegal-pesticide-use
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/112300-cooke-aquaculture-slow-to-report-barge-sinking
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Let's go back Dave to the post where you said you don't care or wouldn't bother to read up on the damage done back east .....and now it's all good? I also verydistinctly remember you expressing doubts about east coast salmon farming - live and in person :o I've got a great memory. :)
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32635.msg375976#msg375976
a few pearls from one company - just one!
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/aquaculture-company-on-the-hook-for-500k-for-pesticide-use-1.1317105
http://www.southcoasttoday.ca/content/cooke-aquaculture-charged-environment-canada-illegal-pesticide-use
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/112300-cooke-aquaculture-slow-to-report-barge-sinking
Totally correct Bill, I do believe East coast salmon farming has impacted indigenous wild Atlantic stocks; I have always made myself very clear on that. I also think net pen salmon farming of Atlantic's in all countries that have wild Atlantic's has often been detrimental, mainly from interbreeding with escaped farmed fish.
But, I live in BC where most East coast issues are non issues here. The Senators seemed to endorse increased aquaculture Canada wide, something I think is inevitable.
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http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/421/pofo/press/19sep16-e.htm
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Totally correct Bill, I do believe East coast salmon farming has impacted indigenous wild Atlantic stocks; I have always made myself very clear on that. I also think net pen salmon farming of Atlantic's in all countries that have wild Atlantic's has often been detrimental, mainly from interbreeding with escaped farmed fish.
But, I live in BC where most East coast issues are non issues here. The Senators seemed to endorse increased aquaculture Canada wide, something I think is inevitable.
I feel better now but it was a curious response to applaud a Newfoundland newspaper toting governmental leaning towards approval of expansion in the feedlots there.For some odd reason, I was under the impression that the farm Atlantics were sterile.
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The definition of this thread,,,,,,,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/marine-harvest-canada-alexandra-morton-1.3780977
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/marine-harvest-canada-alexandra-morton-1.3780977
Was wondering when you would post this Bob ;D
Wait for the pleas for funding to fight this ....
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It was funny to hear Alex's latest rants on her Facebook page. Seeing as this thread is about getting facts straight maybe she should learn something about Fraser Pink salmon life history and the difference between odd and even years.
Here in BC we have the lowest number of sockeye returning to the Fraser in history and no pink salmon. - Alexandra Morton
Fraser River Pink Salmon return as 2 year old fish spawning in odd years. It's 2016. In some areas of the province the even year is more dominant. If she is going to champion wild salmon and spout off her criticism then she should get her facts straight. She should also tell her followers that this Fraser Sockeye cycle line is typically the lowest of the 4 years. The 2012, brood experienced very poor spawning success in most areas. This doesn't include the possibility of poor marine survival for those that outmigrated to the ocean in 2014. So, although very disappointing, her criticism is missing some context. Lastly, I see no mention of ranched salmon in this and the billions released annually by countries like Russia and the US (Alaska).
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Someone mentioned this before - do Alaska and Russia really release billions of pink salmon fry?
Seems like it is one of the least commercially desirable salmon and they would compete with Sockeye and Chinook up north.
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Here's some information on salmon ranching ... and yes, ranched pinks definitely compete with BC's sockeye. I think if you include all the countries using this practice it would certainly be in the billions of hatchery fish released.
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/what-is-salmon-ranching/
and here's some more
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/fishers-against-competition/
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http://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/msca-content-en/mainstream-canada/news/blog/why+do+some+countries+have+better+salmon+returns
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http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/marine-harvest-canada-alexandra-morton-1.3780977
Nothing like a SLAPP to try to hide what your doing. The more I read about Salmon Ranching the more I like it over open net pens.
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The more I read about Salmon Ranching the more I like it over open net pens.
Why does that not surprise me ::)
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Why does that not surprise me ::)
Keep doing some kind of work, that the devil may always find you employed.
In the fish farming business.
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Nothing like a SLAPP to try to hide what your doing. The more I read about Salmon Ranching the more I like it over open net pens.
http://www.adn.com/business-economy/2016/09/23/alaska-gov-walker-appeals-for-a-pink-salmon-disaster-declaration/
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http://www.adn.com/business-economy/2016/09/23/alaska-gov-walker-appeals-for-a-pink-salmon-disaster-declaration/
Where are you coming from with that post?
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Where are you coming from with that post?
You might want to get your short term memory checked out TB. :)
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/by-the-numbers-how-green-is-your-animal-protein
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http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/09/30/Alexandra-Morton-Trespassing-Lawsuit/
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/
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Well Chris, here's your opportunity to send more money her way ;)
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Well Chris, here's your opportunity to send more money her way ;)
Yep, corn sales have been so good I can send a couple of thousand. ;D ;D ;D
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https://theecoreport.com/?s=Salmon+farming
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https://theecoreport.com/?s=Salmon+farming
And https://www.facebook.com/watershedwatchsalmonsociety/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf
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Don't see much of a change to date.
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/12/activist-alexandra-morton-lies-on-national-tv/
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Don't see much of a change to date.
https://salmonfarmscience.com/2014/05/12/activist-alexandra-morton-lies-on-national-tv/
2 years old and this says it all "About this blog.We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."
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2 years old and this says it all "About this blog.We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."
And so are most critical thinking Canadians Chris. The sooner we stop killing wild salmon the closer we will be to salvaging the remnants of what we have left. I think we have a slight chance of righting this ship and that would be to curtail commercial harvesting of all Pacific salmon. All sports fisherman and fish advocates would embrace that but we also know it won’t happen soon enough to change the eventual outcome.
When you consider there are no measureable impacts of salmon farming on the Pacific coast to wild stocks, it makes social and economic sense to change directions. Humans have evolved into farmers and gardeners; the gathering days will soon be over due to anthropogenic reasons, so it makes sense, imo, to bring on more farmed salmon to fill the need of consumers. Seems like our newly elected government agrees and is about to do that.
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And so are most critical thinking Canadians Chris. The sooner we stop killing wild salmon the closer we will be to salvaging the remnants of what we have left. I think we have a slight chance of righting this ship and that would be to curtail commercial harvesting of all Pacific salmon. All sports fisherman and fish advocates would embrace that but we also know it won’t happen soon enough to change the eventual outcome.
When you consider there are no measureable impacts of salmon farming on the Pacific coast to wild stocks, it makes social and economic sense to change directions. Humans have evolved into farmers and gardeners; the gathering days will soon be over due to anthropogenic reasons, so it makes sense, imo, to bring on more farmed salmon to fill the need of consumers. Seems like our newly elected government agrees and is about to do that.
This is part of the problem, Maybe SS can help right the ship. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dfo-federal-audit-report-fish-stocks-collapse-1.3793197
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This is part of the problem, Maybe SS can help right the ship. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dfo-federal-audit-report-fish-stocks-collapse-1.3793197
It's not part of the problem Chris ... it is the problem. Overfishing in times of lower than optimum freshwater conditions in natal rivers and poor ocean productivity due to warming water, increased acidity, and toxic algae blooms is the reason all Pacific salmon stocks are in decline.
Can you see any user group saying they will stop fishing until conditions improve? All want what they consider their share - fish be damned.
Sporties are most certainly included in this group, as witnessed this summer on the Fraser River.
FN .... chum roe fishery ... 'nuf said.
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It's not part of the problem Chris ... it is the problem. Overfishing in times of lower than optimum freshwater conditions in natal rivers and poor ocean productivity due to warming water, increased acidity, and toxic algae blooms is the reason all Pacific salmon stocks are in decline.
Can you see any user group saying they will stop fishing until conditions improve? All want what they consider their share - fish be damned.
Sporties are most certainly included in this group, as witnessed this summer on the Fraser River.
FN .... chum roe fishery ... 'nuf said.
True,as well our governments and some ministeries have mismanaged not only our fisheries but many things related to the environment as they put money first, a lot because of the demands of the people. We, in my mind, many of us, not all, are guilty as we all want more, 2 cars, large houses, more toys and the list goes on, a me first mentality.
This is off topic but we know first hand, look at all the garbage people throw out everywhere, they donot care about the environment, go look at the blocked off area at Old Orchard Road and what is dumped there recently I will send you the picture later, off to the Long Table for coffee. ;D
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This is part of the problem, Maybe SS can help right the ship. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dfo-federal-audit-report-fish-stocks-collapse-1.3793197
I believe much of this report covers the actions of the previous Federal government who cut the department's budget repeatedly year after year. Some of the things mentioned in the report have been addressed by the new government such as new ships for the CCG. New staff have been hired in Pacific Region to address things like climate change, aquaculture, ground fish, and better modelling. There has been a commitment in the Minister's mandate letter to do better so we will just have to see. Intergrated fisheries plans requires information from scientists and stock assessments. This information is passed onto fishery managers. If there are deficiencies in gathering the necessary data then how can fisheries managers make better decisions? Stock status and Wild Salmon Policy is in the same boat. Righting the ship requires that funding be restored. However, equally important it requires that staff succession and recruitment be more strategic as scientific staff age and retire.
Morton has used this opportunity to piggy back aquaculture onto the auditor's report which one can argue that more needs to be done with addressing Cohen recommendations. However, she goes a bit too far as she starts suggesting that we bring First Nation fisheries teams together to sample and count fish instead of the department. First, the department is already involved with many First Nation groups doing exactly that. Second, the capacity for First Nations to carry out this work is not same in every area of the province and with every First Nation group. On one extreme, you have a very few that have put great resources and commitment towards fisheries stock assessment; whereas, on the other, there is absolutely no capacity or commitment and would not be able to carry out any stock assessment without department assistance. Until many First Nations start making more of a commitment to retain staff to do this work you will continue to get a revolving door of folks that are not able to do the job or teach others. The work is not a 3 month summer job. If you are going do it properly you need to keep staff employed 12 months which includes report writing and data analysis. They get funding for these initiatives so they need to decide whether it worth putting the energy into their young people to do this work.
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A number of us wrote this to Justin.
Comments: Wild salmon are a keystone species in Canada.
Despite the presence of pristine salmon habitat, Clayoquot Sound’s wild salmon runs are in serious decline, with runs now numbering in the tens, rather than tens of thousands. No surprise—wild salmon are in exceptional decline everywhere salmon feedlots are in operation around the world. There are 20 salmon feedlots in Clayoquot Sound, putting at risk wild salmon which are the lifeblood of Clayoquot's ancient forests.
Salmon farms have many negative impacts on the environment including ease of virus transmission between captive and wild fish, sea lice infestations which spread to wild salmon, escapes, pollution including chemicals and tonnes of salmon sewage, and conflicts with marine mammals.
The solution to all these problems is simple: get the farms out of the ocean and rebuild wild fish stocks and wild fish economies.
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Salmon farms have many negative impacts on the environment including ease of virus transmission between captive and wild fish, sea lice infestations which spread to wild salmon, escapes, pollution including chemicals and tonnes of salmon sewage, and conflicts with marine mammals.
In regards to escaped Atlantic Salmon and waste on Fraser River Sockeye:
Atlantic escapees. Both Dr. Dill and Dr. Noakes agreed that “it’s very unlikely that escapees are implicated in the decline of Fraser River sockeye salmon.” Atlantic escapees are not spawning in streams occupied by Fraser River sockeye, and they are not competing with Fraser River sockeye for food. Very few Atlantic salmon have been found in the lower Strait of Georgia and the Fraser River. Dr. Dill acknowledged a “slight potential for disease to transfer to wild sockeye via escaped Atlantics.” Dr. Noakes said “it is far more likely that farms would be a more viable source of pathogens than chance encounters between Pacific salmon and escaped Atlantic salmon. - Justice Bruce Cohen (Cohen Final Report; Volume 2; Chapter 4; pg 66).
I accept the evidence of Dr. Dill and Dr. Noakes that wastes and chemicals discharged at salmon farms are unlikely to have any population level effects on Fraser River sockeye. I also accept their evidence that escaped Atlantic salmon are unlikely to have any impact on Fraser River sockeye given that they are not spawning in streams frequented by sockeye and are not competing with sockeye for food. - Justice Bruce Cohen (Cohen Final Report; Volumen 2; Chapter 5; pg 113).
Chris, when you composed your letter where did you get your information (i.e. literature cited) with regards to escaped Atlantic salmon and wastes?
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In regards to escaped Atlantic Salmon and waste on Fraser River Sockeye:
Atlantic escapees. Both Dr. Dill and Dr. Noakes agreed that “it’s very unlikely that escapees are implicated in the decline of Fraser River sockeye salmon.” Atlantic escapees are not spawning in streams occupied by Fraser River sockeye, and they are not competing with Fraser River sockeye for food. Very few Atlantic salmon have been found in the lower Strait of Georgia and the Fraser River. Dr. Dill acknowledged a “slight potential for disease to transfer to wild sockeye via escaped Atlantics.” Dr. Noakes said “it is far more likely that farms would be a more viable source of pathogens than chance encounters between Pacific salmon and escaped Atlantic salmon. - Justice Bruce Cohen (Cohen Final Report; Volume 2; Chapter 4; pg 66).
I accept the evidence of Dr. Dill and Dr. Noakes that wastes and chemicals discharged at salmon farms are unlikely to have any population level effects on Fraser River sockeye. I also accept their evidence that escaped Atlantic salmon are unlikely to have any impact on Fraser River sockeye given that they are not spawning in streams frequented by sockeye and are not competing with sockeye for food. - Justice Bruce Cohen (Cohen Final Report; Volumen 2; Chapter 5; pg 113).
Chris, when you composed your letter where did you get your information (i.e. literature cited) with regards to escaped Atlantic salmon and wastes?
Most of us know wherever FF have been around the world problems like this exist why would it be any different here SS?
http://wellnessmama.com/105599/problems-with-fish-farming/
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This has been answered many time but you don't listen. I doubt anyone here has the patience to try again.
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This has been answered many time but you don't listen. I doubt anyone here has the patience to try again.
I plan on out lasting you all on this topic. ;D ;D ;D
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If you plug both ears and shout "BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA..." all the time its going to be pretty easy for you Chris. We are having the discussion but you never seem to hear any of it.
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So true Aqua. Chris seems to think if you say something often enough it becomes fact; funny, Almo thinks that way also.
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Beam me up Scotty......
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/captain-kirk-beams-in-to-back-wild-salmon-protection-bill-1.3800195
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Beam me up Scotty......
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/captain-kirk-beams-in-to-back-wild-salmon-protection-bill-1.3800195
Thanks for the link, sounds like a lot are hearing us even though the few posters above donot seem to get it yet but of course most worked or are working for FOC or are involved in FF in one way or another. The work we have been doing for the last few years will soon put them on the shelf like a can of Atlantic Salmon. :D :D
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Most of us know wherever FF have been around the world problems like this exist why would it be any different here SS?
http://wellnessmama.com/105599/problems-with-fish-farming/
So, your response to scientific evidence/testimony presented at the Cohen Inquiry on escaped Atlantic salmon and wastes is an obscure website from a Google search. A site that starts out with, "Simple answers for healthier families" sounds swell. Well I can't say I'm really surprised either. Lol
While farmed fish have obvious drawbacks there are also sustainability concerns about wild caught fish.
Sustainability concerns about wild caught fish?! Really?! Shocker. I guess another drawback of capture fisheries would be incidental capture of marine mammals, but that apparently doesn't exist with the Salmon Are Sacred crowd.
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Dear Chris,
Today I unveiled a video endorsement from Canadian Actor & icon William Shatner in support of my Bill C-228 to #SaveWildSalmon.
I am thrilled to share his video statement and hope you will help spread the word about Bill C-228.
Watch, like, and share the video here: https://www.facebook.com/fin.donnelly/videos/10153795064490723/
I'm very proud to add William Shatner to the growing list of supporters who are calling on Members of Parliament to vote for Bill C-228 to #SaveWildSalmon.
You can watch and share Shatner's video statement on Facebook here, Twitter here, and Youtube here.
By spreading the message we can encourage more people to contact their MPs to support Bill C-228.
Mr. Shatner joins a host of other high profile endorsers, like David Suzuki, Alex Morton, Willie Mitchell, Yvon Chouinard, Chief Bob Chamberlin, Tony Allard and Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, Please view & share their quotes online at: http://findonnelly.ndp.ca/bill-c-228-endorsements
Together, we can ensure a healthy future for wild salmon and the people who depend on them.
Thank you for your support.
Fin Donnelly
Member of Parliament
Port Moody—Coquitlam
(Anmore & Belcarra)
New Democrat Critic for Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard
-=-=-
Fin Donnelly, MP for Port Moody-Coquitlam · Canada
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http://m.torontosun.com/2013/10/11/the-two-suzukis-theres-saint-suzuki-the-one-you-see-on-cbc-and-secret-suzuki-the-capitalist-millionaire
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/alexandra-morton-non-profit-revenue-2000-2010.html
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http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/alexandra-morton-non-profit-revenue-2000-2010.html
What? There may be a link to Almos’s activism and Alaskan fishery interests?
Who would have thought that ;D
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What? There may be a link to Almos’s activism and Alaskan fishery interests?
Who would have thought that ;D
Great to see the funds keep coming in hope we can get more in the years ahead. ;D ;D Thanks for the link Dave.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/news/b-c/ndp-mp-s-bill-targets-ocean-based-fish-farms-1.2362987
Probably pass the private members bill this time. Shatners going to see to that!
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Frankenfish anyone?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gmo-salmon-heads-to-court-1.3809924
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers
And add in my dollars too. ;D ;D ;D
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http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1139379&tp=1
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http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1139379&tp=1
Good - just maybe with a little gumption, some of Harper's secretive stench might be removed from fisheries department. It was pleasure to finally meet you today Chris. I told my son about the work you and others are doing to ensure a future fishery for him and his children - he was quite impressed.(You should have the coho I pulled out of that run ;D)
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Good - just maybe with a little gumption, some of Harper's secretive stench might be removed from fisheries department. It was pleasure to finally meet you today Chris. I told my son about the work you and others are doing to ensure a future fishery for him and his children - he was quite impressed.(You should have the coho I pulled out of that run ;D)
Glad you got a fish and thanks for your support. I filmed this today and it shows the importance of wild salmon returning to our rivers.https://youtu.be/Y1JNM7W4x-M
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Same thing could be said about Doc Morton I would think.
http://www.aboutseafood.com/dr-oz-misinformation-machine-turns-farmed-salmon/
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Here's a novel idea - and closed containment to boot
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/take-a-tour-of-hamilton-s-first-legal-marijuana-production-plant-1.3544318
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http://www.stornowaygazette.co.uk/news/plea-to-keep-communication-lines-open-over-fish-disease-1-4251773
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/i-own-many-glass-houses-so-i-can-throw-stones/
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http://www.salmonfarming.org/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ISFA_LandFarmingreport_web.pdf
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http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/risk-and-precaution-paper-deceptive-says-expert/
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Thanks Bob; more garbage from Morton. One wonders how this stuff gets published.
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Thanks Bob; more garbage from Morton. One wonders how this stuff gets published.
Of course the link FB posts comes from so called fish farm expert. ::)
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Dr. Gary Marty. Do you know a higher authority?
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Dr. Gary Marty. Do you know a higher authority?
God. :P
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'nuf said. Can you spell denial??
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Here is the video I filmed of the Drum Circle in yesterday's rally at the Superstore, we are not going away like some would suggest we do. ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/9Mxqp5TEyYE
More video of the rally will be on my u tube channel for you to enjoy. :-\
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Bill C-228 will be debated for the first time in the House of Commons today at 2:30pm PST (5:30pm EST) and you can watch live by visiting: http://www.cpac.ca/en/house-portal/
I will be making my opening remarks in support of my bill to help #SaveWildSalmon which will be followed by 40 minutes of debate. I hope you will tune in and watch by clicking here.
Another key date is fast approaching.
November 3rd, is the deadline for accepting new signatures for Alexandra Morton’s official House of Commons e-petition in support of Bill C-228.
Over 5,500 passionate wild salmon supporters have already signed the petition. With one final push, I know we can reach 6,000!
If you have not already done so, please sign the petition here and share this facebook post to spread the word.
Thank you for your dedication to my campaign to help #SaveWildSalmon.
Sincerely,
Fin Donnelly, MP
Port Moody—Coquitlam
Critic for Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard
Canada’s New Democrats
PS: For more information check out my website here: http://findonnelly.ndp.ca/save-west-coast-wild-salmon
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Fin Donnelly, MP for Port Moody-Coquitlam · Canada
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Of course the link FB posts comes from so called fish farm expert. ::)
Can you post what science Doc Morton has been right on that makes her an expert? All I have seen is junk science that feeds on peoples emotions.
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Can you post what science Doc Morton has been right on that makes her an expert? All I have seen is junk science that feeds on peoples emotions.
Lets start with you.lol.
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Lets start with you.lol.
Or perhaps you could could post the science that you stand behind :)
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Same old, same old by the Fisheries Minister.
"There's no science to say that fish farms are bad for wild salmon".
That's because the previous government had stifled all science on the subject.
Predatory policies by a rogue government...
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DFO scientists today are free to speak ... they have nothing new to add to this debate. It's coming everyone, Miller-Saunders and Riddell are working on it, expect some publications in 2018. In the meantime, you're right "there's no science to say that fish farms are bad for wild salmon"
Be patient.
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DFO scientists today are free to speak ... they have nothing new to add to this debate. It's coming everyone, Miller-Saunders and Riddell are working on it, expect some publications in 2018. In the meantime, you're right "there's no science to say that fish farms are bad for wild salmon"
Be patient.
If the science comes back and they determine that fish farms have zero impact on wild stock is there a point to having hatchery's anymore? Would it not then be more economical for then the government to give up the hatchery's and then let the industry just farm them? Hatchery's seem like an antiquated system at that point.
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Hatcheries provide employment for commercial fishermen, angling opportunities for sports anglers and work for federal employees. Can't see much change there, despite what future science may show regarding salmon farms.
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Hatcheries provide employment for commercial fishermen, angling opportunities for sports anglers and work for federal employees. Can't see much change there, despite what future science may show regarding salmon farms.
All things that Fish farms could provide. They could even design them like a theme parks for anglers. Obvious employment for Commercial fishermen and still would be regulated by the government to provide jobs for federal employees.
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If the science comes back and they determine that fish farms have zero impact on wild stock is there a point to having hatchery's anymore? Would it not then be more economical for then the government to give up the hatchery's and then let the industry just farm them? Hatchery's seem like an antiquated system at that point.
Federal hatcheries are involved with coded wire tagging (CWT) of Chinook and Coho. CWTs are a vital management tool to help determine things like survival, exploitation, distribution and abundance. It is difficult to successfully capture enough juvenile salmon in the wild to apply CWT to make it worthwhile. Not just because of abundance, but because the environmental conditions to capture them don't cooperate very well - especially at this time of the year. That's why hatcheries are involved.
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/seafood-consumption-increasing-in-america-your-heart-thanks-you/
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http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1363677-cooke-aquaculture-buys-u.s.-salmon-producer-icicle-seafoods
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Federal hatcheries are involved with coded wire tagging (CWT) of Chinook and Coho. CWTs are a vital management tool to help determine things like survival, exploitation, distribution and abundance. It is difficult to successfully capture enough juvenile salmon in the wild to apply CWT to make it worthwhile. Not just because of abundance, but because the environmental conditions to capture them don't cooperate very well - especially at this time of the year. That's why hatcheries are involved.
Chilliwack River Hatchery does not CWT coho any more I am told.
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True, but others do :)
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Of course the link FB posts comes from so called fish farm expert. ::)
Back to you. Where is the science you stand behind? Taking a guess it is the same hype I jumped ship from :)
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True, but others do :)
Which ones Dave?
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DFO scientists today are free to speak ... they have nothing new to add to this debate. It's coming everyone, Miller-Saunders and Riddell are working on it, expect some publications in 2018. In the meantime, you're right "there's no science to say that fish farms are bad for wild salmon"
Be patient.
After watching the debate on the bill and hearing what the Parliamentary Secretary to the Fisheries Minister had to say we know what Riddell is going to report. :( Did you watch the debate?
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Back to you Chris. Where is the science you stand behind? Taking a guess it is the same hype I jumped ship from :)
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After watching the debate on the bill and hearing what the Parliamentary Secretary to the Fisheries Minister had to say we know what Riddell is going to report. :( Did you watch the debate?
No.
When was the last time a private members' bill was recognized? Name an MP that would vote to put app. 5,000 people out of work? Besides, I had some drying paint that needed watching.
Riddell will report the science; be assured of that. He is as reputable as they come but I know you won't believe anyone that may possibly find no fault with Pacific coast salmon farms.
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No.
When was the last time a private members' bill was recognized? Name an MP that would vote to put app. 5,000 people out of work? Besides, I had some drying paint that needed watching.
Riddell will report the science; be assured of that. He is as reputable as they come but I know you won't believe anyone that may possibly find no fault with Pacific coast salmon farms.
I hope you are right but when a group like, Pacific Salmon Foundation, Fraser Basin Council etc. gets funding from government that raises concerns what they will say at times.https://www.psf.ca/contributor/fisheries-and-oceans-canada.
And as I said the present government said at the debate, ocean located FF are fine. Is the report from Riddell going to say they are a problem to wild salmon and the environment and go against what the Fisheries Minister is saying, time. will tell I guess.
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I hope you are right but when a group like, Pacific Salmon Foundation, Fraser Basin Council etc. gets funding from government that raises concerns what they will say at times.https://www.psf.ca/contributor/fisheries-and-oceans-canada.
And as I said the present government said at the debate, ocean located FF are fine. Is the report from Riddell going to say they are a problem to wild salmon and the environment and go against what the Fisheries Minister is saying, time. will tell I guess.
ITs Funny how on this forum where there are mostly fresh water fishermen there a lot support fish farms. On a Salt Water forum that I frequent, all the fishermen there want to see salmon farms gone. I guess when you know or have herd of someone catching an Atlantic Salmon in the chuck its a different story (Sorry Dave no I don't have the science to back up this comment).
Harper decimated the whole department (was not just Harper but John Crachan and Paul Martin too being the economical liberals they were). He brought in the navigable waters act to streamline development at take small salmon streams out of DFO's hands. Now there is one guy in the Prince George office that approves all the development for BC. He just basically auto accepts the applications because like he has time to come down and visit the effected streams. (Sorry Dave I don't have links to the facts just what i have been told from a retired fish biologist). Since DFO stopped doing stream counts most of the current fishery officers don't even know half of the salmon bearing creeks in the lower mainland.
IF the science comes back that fish farms are good and have zero impact. The wild stocks (from climate change) and Hatchery (from Funding) will go the way of the dodo bird. You will have fish farms using the science in commercials touting the benefits of farm salmon. They will pay for high profile chefs to go on commercials stating how better they taste and sustainable they are.The general public will start looking at rec fishermen like they do hunters. The Government will give the industry the over site to third party company so the industry can manage themselves.
The Federal Government would want nothing more then to see wild salmon go extinct, its been a thorn in their side years. From the Fish wars on the Fraser in the 1990's, to closing Laid law bar for garbage to having to deal with recreation fishermen throwing bouncing betties at First Nations.
Sorry for the no facts in the facts thread. Apparently I am too jaded being to close to these issues for to many years. Still I am happy tho that attest some people still care to have this discussion so thank you guys!
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It's good to get a slightly different perspective on this. Thanks for taking the time to speak your mind . Fwiw, I agree with many of your comments and know the PG guy ... he is totally swamped.
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No.
When was the last time a private members' bill was recognized? Name an MP that would vote to put app. 5,000 people out of work? Besides, I had some drying paint that needed watching.
Riddell will report the science; be assured of that. He is as reputable as they come but I know you won't believe anyone that may possibly find no fault with Pacific coast salmon farms.
And there lies the crux- It's a big country with 2 ocean coasts, and I can honestly say the eastern region is a total flipping mess. (and I don't buy into the western feedlots are holy and sacred)
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I agree Nova, salmon farms are impacting wild Atlantic salmon on the East coast; I have always said that … but this bill was directed here, the Pacific. Looks like a fail by Donnelly and I'm sure a big disappointment to local activists, but seriously, you’re a bright guy, did you expect a different outcome?
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I'm taking a trip to Nova Scotia this summer and I'm going to get a friend to take me out to the Saddle Island feedlot. I'll shoot some video of the carnage and talk to some fisherman that will give you a full understanding of why I have zip/zero/zilch trust in fish farms. If it's OK to pull the finger out east by some of the same companies, how and why in the name of Great Aunt Sadie would I trust them here? Or trust a government that gives them carte blanche out there? Fool me once...... ::) Who knows, it might even change your mind or at the very least give you pause for thought.
P.S.- Cooke Aquaculture is busy trying to make some plays out here. They already have started.Look at the record they sport.
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2016/06/10/cooke-family-closes-deal-with-icicle-seafoods/
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And another snack for you. ;)
http://fisherynation.com/archives/tag/cooke-aquaculture
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/save-bc-salmon_b_12758462.html
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/save-bc-salmon_b_12758462.html
So much old and outdated information in that post ... but tell us how did Bill C-228 turn out?
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So much old and outdated information in that post ... but tell us how did Bill C-228 turn out?
It went well as more people now understand how bad FF are to our wild salmon. Like anything it takes time to change things around when you have some people making a lot of money and who care little about our wild salmon, habitat, the environment etc...
We humans have done so much damage to our planet the last 100 plus years.
Just look in Chilliwack to the recent gravel excavations on the Vedder and the covering of A1 farmland, the best in the world for the new Molson's brewery there, many people who think this is just fine or maybe do not understand the implications.
As long as I can, I will continue to battle to save what is dear to me and others, no matter that others say or differ on my opinion.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/jeff-matthews/save-bc-salmon_b_12758462.html
Excellent article - a few quotes:
But here's the really diabolical part: salmon farmers have been knowingly putting virus-infected smolts into BC waters for years, while our government turned a blind eye. The practice is almost certainly illegal. Section 56 of the Fisheries Act states that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans must ensure that farmed fish are free of disease before allowing their transfer into our ocean
Tons of other interesting info and links as well.
The world's largest salmon farming company, Marine Harvest, has begun a shift towards closed containment in Norway. Shouldn't we insist foreign companies show the same respect for our environment as they do in their own countries?
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2007/sep/29/fishfarm
The world's largest seafood company is coming under intense pressure to shift its fish farms further out to sea after its largest shareholder claimed the industry was helping to kill off wild salmon and trout populations.
John Fredriksen, a Norwegian shipping and oil industry billionaire who owns 29% of Marine Harvest, surprised anglers and conservationists by directly linking fish farms to plunging wild fish populations.
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Excellent article - a few quotes:
But here's the really diabolical part: salmon farmers have been knowingly putting virus-infected smolts into BC waters for years, while our government turned a blind eye. The practice is almost certainly illegal. Section 56 of the Fisheries Act states that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans must ensure that farmed fish are free of disease before allowing their transfer into our ocean
Tons of other interesting info and links as well.
The world's largest salmon farming company, Marine Harvest, has begun a shift towards closed containment in Norway. Shouldn't we insist foreign companies show the same respect for our environment as they do in their own countries?
For those that might want more information than given by this article, here are a few links. The first two are by DFO so I know Chris won't read them, the last by Almo. You decide who you believe.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1069579
https://www.ecojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/FINAL-PRV-HSMI-backgrounder-v2.pdf
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For those that might want more information than given by this article, here are a few links. The first two are by DFO so I know Chris won't read them, the last by Almo. You decide who you believe.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1069579
https://www.ecojustice.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/FINAL-PRV-HSMI-backgrounder-v2.pdf
Thanks for the links, I skimmed them but as we all know FOC has to try to back up, to this point why they have allowed these FF to grow and have an impact on our wild salmon stocks. That is OK as it makes us work harder to get them out of our ocean.
I was wondering why the Weaver Creek spawning channel bury their salmon after they spawn instead of putting them back in the creek, as you say and I agree it is so important for the health of a river or stream. Is it they are infected with a disease they picked up from the FF's? :P
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Thanks for the links, I skimmed them
Yeah, knew you would, Try reading them.
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Is it they are infected with a disease they picked up from the FF's? :P
Time for your meds Chris.
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Time for your meds Chris.
More med's for Atlantic Salmon in their net pens you mean. ;D ;D Of course with your Canucks losing I will understand if you need some too. ::)
You have not backed FOC up why they bury the carcasses at Weaver, you worked for FOC so you should know.
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Sorry, I don't know why the carcasses are buried or if in fact they still are, although I did suggest higher numbers of carcasses' may have been the reason in a small watershed. I think you're sucking straws but use your journalistic skills to find out and get back to us.
Seriously, do you really think they are buried (or not) because they have some disease brought on by salmon farms? What disease?
Your turn.
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Sorry, I don't know why the carcasses are buried or if in fact they still are, although I did suggest higher numbers of carcasses' may have been the reason in a small watershed. I think you're sucking straws but use your journalistic skills to find out and get back to us.
Seriously, do you really think they are buried (or not) because they have some disease brought on by salmon farms? What disease?
Your turn./quote] Getting back to you quickly. As I stated before, it was in their recent brochure I picked up this week.
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Again, do you really think they are buried (or not) because they have some disease brought on by salmon farms? What disease?
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Thanks for the links, I skimmed them but as we all know FOC has to try to back up, to this point why they have allowed these FF to grow and have an impact on our wild salmon stocks. That is OK as it makes us work harder to get them out of our ocean.
I was wondering why the Weaver Creek spawning channel bury their salmon after they spawn instead of putting them back in the creek, as you say and I agree it is so important for the health of a river or stream. Is it they are infected with a disease they picked up from the FF's? :P
Conspiracy and speculation is so fun
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It went well as more people now understand how bad FF are to our wild salmon. Like anything it takes time to change things around when you have some people making a lot of money and who care little about our wild salmon, habitat, the environment etc...
We humans have done so much damage to our planet the last 100 plus years.
Just look in Chilliwack to the recent gravel excavations on the Vedder and the covering of A1 farmland, the best in the world for the new Molson's brewery there, many people who think this is just fine or maybe do not understand the implications.
As long as I can, I will continue to battle to save what is dear to me and others, no matter that others say or differ on my opinion.
Having a hard time mentioning that other gravel extraction operation near Chilliwack, Chris? Who's the proponent for that one anyway?
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Excellent article - a few quotes:
But here's the really diabolical part: salmon farmers have been knowingly putting virus-infected smolts into BC waters for years, while our government turned a blind eye. The practice is almost certainly illegal. Section 56 of the Fisheries Act states that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans must ensure that farmed fish are free of disease before allowing their transfer into our ocean
Tons of other interesting info and links as well.
The world's largest salmon farming company, Marine Harvest, has begun a shift towards closed containment in Norway. Shouldn't we insist foreign companies show the same respect for our environment as they do in their own countries?
Are "Virus" and "Disease" interchangeable? Do you have evidence that those smolts released by Marine Harvest, that allegedly have PRV, had developed a disease because of it? If so, now is your chance to show what is currently just speculation based on no factual evidence.
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Having a hard time mentioning that other gravel extraction operation near Chilliwack, Chris? Who's the proponent for that one anyway?
If you are talking about the Fraser River it is the Seabird F/N.
And here is a topic posted on another thread in relation to gravel mining the Fraser River you may have missed it.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=40397.0
Sorry as we are off topic but need to answer your question.
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Sorry, I should have contributed something to the discussion about Weaver Sockeye being buried because of some phantom disease.
Chum galore this season.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/chum-salmon-runs-record-levels-1.3837854
But according to Morton we have all the scientific evidence we need.
Petition manages only just over 7,000 signatures? Is that it? That would be a real poor turnout for a Canuck's home game. More people take in Canada Day celebrations at different municipalities in BC. Salmon Are Sacred Facebook page has just over 8,000 members, but the petition manages to get less than that? Not the majority of public support as some critics often elude to. But somehow MPs are being asked to vote in favour of this bill which essentially has very weak support? What this says is that Morton has been able to hold onto most of her followers, but unable to get wider public support.
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I think the science is very clear regarding the burying of weaver sockeye. Irrefutable actually, it's to hide them from the sasquatch
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I think the science is very clear regarding the burying of weaver sockeye. Irrefutable actually, it's to hide them from the sasquatch
LOL!!
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I think the science is very clear regarding the burying of weaver sockeye. Irrefutable actually, it's to hide them from the sasquatch
I went to check the site out and there was signs of digging, you better set up a camera and you will be famous. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/salmon-returns-are-cyclical/
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Someone's going to get Shat-on real soon. As in Willy Shatner of Startrek fame. Net penning the dirty fish penners. Just saying.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/captain-kirk-beams-in-to-back-wild-salmon-protection-bill-1.3800195
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Was please to be on this journey from start to finish, missed SS in Kamloops and Dave in the Valley. ;D
https://vimeo.com/190969343
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No.
When was the last time a private members' bill was recognized? Name an MP that would vote to put app. 5,000 people out of work? Besides, I had some drying paint that needed watching.
Riddell will report the science; be assured of that. He is as reputable as they come but I know you won't believe anyone that may possibly find no fault with Pacific coast salmon farms.
here is some on the bill for you to watch and Pick A Part.https://youtu.be/cd8cfmCHpOA
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And this is the result, as expected ;)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/ePetitions/Responses/421/e-270/421-00589_DFO_E.pdf
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And this is the result, as expected ;)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/ePetitions/Responses/421/e-270/421-00589_DFO_E.pdf
They are making this statement, when the results of your friend Riddell's study is not even out yet. Typical government way of doing things. I guess we know the results of the study before it is done or released. I guess more of our taxpayers money wasted.
We will continue on until you and others see the light, I hope it is not to late. ::) :'( :o
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And this is the result, as expected ;)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/ePetitions/Responses/421/e-270/421-00589_DFO_E.pdf
Thank you for the post Dave. :)
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They are making this statement, when the results of your friend Riddell's study is not even out yet. Typical government way of doing things. I guess we know the results of the study before it is done or released. I guess more of our taxpayers money wasted.
We will continue on until you and others see the light, I hope it is not to late. ::) :'( :o
LOL!
So, because this Bill didn’t pass as you’d hoped, the ongoing science by Riddell, Miller-Saunders, et al, is a waste money? Wasn’t it you and Almo who pushed for this stuff?
What was a waste of resources was a poorly conceived Bill by a publicity seeking MP that would have nothing for wild salmon but would have put several thousand people out of work and disrupted the economies of more than few coastal communities.
Fwiw, Riddell is not my friend; doubt if he even remembers me. He was my Section Head for a while and left a senior science position with DFO so he would not be caught up in the bureauocracy that is Ottawa. He has huge respect worldwide, and Pacific salmon are better off for it.
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And this is the result, as expected ;)
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/ePetitions/Responses/421/e-270/421-00589_DFO_E.pdf
After reading this, I was wondering who is "Mrs. Jordan" that submitted this?
I did a quick Google search and it looks like she is a member of the DFO Standing Committee.
Here's a link on the latest committee meeting regarding east coast fisheries (for Novabonker).
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2016/parl/xc51-1/XC51-1-2-421-26-eng.pdf
Interesting that one of the guests to the meeting didn't like the fact cod were making a recovery in Newfoundland because it will have an effect on the more profitable shrimp fishery.
Not really relevant to the discussion here but I thought some insight into the government process would be interesting.
It looks like our expert MP on fisheries had nothing to say in the meeting other than to correct a sexist offender at the end.
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They are making this statement, when the results of your friend Riddell's study is not even out yet. Typical government way of doing things. I guess we know the results of the study before it is done or released. I guess more of our taxpayers money wasted.
We will continue on until you and others see the light, I hope it is not to late. ::) :'( :o
Funny you mention that because it seems like Fin is saying some stuff that isn't known either. That's why we have projects like the one Riddell and Miller are involved in - not some useless boating adventure made for propaganda rather than science. Actually, Fin's speech has a lot of misinformation, speculation and exaggeration.....and even some cherry picking. What are these diseases that are out of control? Nevers mentions the secondary spin off employment generated from the industry. Never mentions that Fraser Sockeye survival between 2009 and 2014 was close to normal while salmon farms were still operating - instead he talks about 2009 then jumps to 2016. He talks about the Cohen Report as a condemnation of salmon farming, but that's not what it was about. However, if nobody actually reads the report and instead defaults to filtered sources for that information then is that's what they are going to believe. Obviously, facts don't seem to matter to some people. Making stuff up has become normalize. The recent presidential campaign by Trump is good evidence of that. There's ways to protect yourself from sources like Fin or though. Don't let the title fool you - its the point of the article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-could-replace-president-trump-with-little_us_5829f25fe4b02b1f5257a6b7
He's basically saying that if BC salmon farms are removed then wild salmon will come back in plentiful quantities. That's irresponsible and misleads the public in believing that these issues are so simple. Like Morton - just another snake oil salesperson.
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if BC salmon farms are removed then wild salmon will come back in plentiful quantities
There's no science that says that won't happen.
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There's no science that says that won't happen.
Well then, please provide us with some science that says it would,,, that may float my anti-salmonfarming boat again. LOL :)
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2016/11/response-to-marine-harvest-slapp.html
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2016/11/response-to-marine-harvest-slapp.html
I wonder how much money Morton has cost taxpayers with her law suits and court costs, not to mention the 26M Cohen debacle she basically instigated.
I guess the good news is she's making tons of money for Canadian juridical people, and keeping Chris mentally active :D
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Like Morton - just another snake oil salesperson.
And salmon feedlotters are known to only spout gospel...... ;D ;D ;D ;)
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And salmon feedlotters are known to only spout gospel...... ;D ;D ;D ;)
I suppose Dave had FF salmon for lunch today. ;D
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I suppose Dave had FF salmon for lunch today. ;D
Nope, Jolly Miller pizza and a beer. Thanks Nova :D
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There's no science that says that won't happen.
Like Bob suggests I could come right back at you and ask you for proof that removing all net pen aquaculture will bring back wild salmon in droves. I believe there's some onus on the snake oil salespeople like Fin to show this considering he is standing up in the House of Commons pronouncing this. Fin is coming out saying that the science is clear on this, but that's Morton's interpretation which deviates from reality.
There's increasing evidence that suggests that these issues are not as cut and dried as some may believe. Why do we go from records low Fraser Sockeye returns in 2009 and 2016 to a historical record return in 2010 and near average survival in between? Amongst poor returning Fraser Sockeye CUs there are some that return greater than brood. When some Pacific salmon species do poorly others return in exceptional numbers (i.e. Chum this season and Pink in other years) - why? Interior Fraser Coho numbers are looking better this year. Meanwhile, in the marine environment, we had this warm water blob that has existed off our coast since 2013 which we still do not know how or if this had any impact, especially when you have the inconsistencies I just mentioned. You then have a freshwater environment where juvenile salmonid assessment concentrates on certain areas intensively, but there's a big void in other areas where we really cannot say how many juveniles are outmigrating to the ocean. Additionally, during the Cohen Inquiry, it was shown that Sockeye survival in other adjacent areas to BC had done relatively poorly also - not just isolated to the Fraser.
As we get closer to aquaculture, critics that blame PRV for HSMI ignore evidence that not only shows that salmon injected with the virus do not develop HSMI, but that PRV likely existed here before salmon began here - with a distribution that extends from Alaska to Washington State. We know for a fact that PRV is found in asymptotic farmed and wild salmon. Of course, Morton still cannot prove that those transferred Marine Harvest fish that allegedly had PRV were indeed diseased.
Of course, Fin never considered any of this and instead decided to do his own narrative of the situation.
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http://advocate.gaalliance.org/in-canada-salmon-farmers-building-social-license-with-first-nations/
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I have a question...
Do the fish farm companies pay leases to First Nations groups in order to put their farms on native land (water)?
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According to Bob's article, compensation, if not lease money.
Sure sounds like a win-win for all.
“As a result, today we have a mutually respectful relationship with Grieg where we’ve got each other’s backs,” he said. “We receive signing bonuses for new farms, rental for the site when there are fish in the water and a percentage reimbursement per kilo for the fish.” His tribe uses its compensation from the company towards student education and building a new community in Campbell River. - See more at: http://advocate.gaalliance.org/in-canada-salmon-farmers-building-social-license-with-first-nations/#sthash.tCV0X70p.dpuf
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I have a question...
Do the fish farm companies pay leases to First Nations groups in order to put their farms on native land (water)?
If it's Crown Land then I would say no. However, the province is legally obligated to consult and accommodate First Nations on land use decisions that could impact their interests. In a situation like the Brittany Triangle in the Chilcotin (Tsilhqot'in Nation v. British Columbia, 2014), the Supreme Court of Canada agreed to the the Tsilhqot'in Nation's aboriginal title claim so they call a lot of the shots in the land in question, with the exception of privately held lands which were not part of the decision. However, the Tsilhqot'in National Government is not about to kick the public off the land. It's not in their best interests to exclude access, business and government. They want to form partnerships and build capacity within their own ranks so manage what they have. They have checkpoints at different points of entry into the triangle but it's more informational and just getting an idea what activities are going on.
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/News/wild-lobsters-thrive-near-salmon-farm/
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/News/wild-lobsters-thrive-near-salmon-farm/
Over to you Nova ;)
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Like their going to bite the hand that feeds them. Shat on them Shatner.
Sweeney International Marine Corp. (formerly Sweeney International Management Corp) was established in January 2002 as a one-man business operation working with the salmon farming industry in southwest New Brunswick's Bay of Fundy region.
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Over to you Nova ;)
\
I hate it when an INDUSTRY TRIES TO SELL OUTRIGHT bovine excrement and tell you its chocolate pudding. Wait until I get back from Nova Scotia with plain FACTS and some other disturbing things about Cooke Aquaculture and not some shilling codswallop - the proof will be plain as day.
http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/story/can-sustainable-salmon-be-farmed/14610
https://www.saltscapes.com/people-culture-section/1871-the-future-of-the-family-fish-farm.html
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\
I hate it when an INDUSTRY TRIES TO SELL OUTRIGHT bovine excrement and tell you its chocolate pudding. Wait until I get back from Nova Scotia with plain FACTS and some other disturbing things about Cooke Aquaculture and not some shilling codswallop - the proof will be plain as day.
http://halifax.mediacoop.ca/story/can-sustainable-salmon-be-farmed/14610
https://www.saltscapes.com/people-culture-section/1871-the-future-of-the-family-fish-farm.html
Check your pm's Bill.
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http://canadians.org/blog/public-comment-period-neonicotinoid-pesticide-ban-closes-february-17
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More fake news exposed. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/searching-for-anvesha-sharma/
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More fake news exposed. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/searching-for-anvesha-sharma/
What a shock - poor reporting by the media.
Or is it?
I suspect this was the part the person at "The Truth About Alaska Salmon" had issue with:
Wild-caught fishes are healthier and less contaminated than farm raised fish as wild-caught ones feed on a natural diet with fewer bacteria and parasites. Farm-raised fish have more contamination from industrial chemicals such as PCBs. Plus, they are raised in crowded conditions and contain higher rates of pesticides, antibiotics and artificial colouring.
Lower levels of Omegas: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37321656
PCBs in farmed salmon: http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/getting-your-omega-3s-vs-avoiding-those-pcbsthe-family-healthguide
Unfortunately, the PCBs come from the feed fish so in order to lower the PCB levels, they are using less fish in the feed, which lowers the Omega levels.
The fact that the person writing the article made up their "expert" has nothing to do with salmon or farming and has everything to do with personal integrity.
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"Prof Tocher stressed that farmed salmon was still one of the richest sources of beneficial fish oils and he urged people who buy farmed salmon for its potential health benefits to continue doing so.
"Farmed salmon is just about the best way of getting omega-3 in our diet. All the other fish are much lower than mid-Atlantic salmon, including wild salmon," he said."
Very interesting. Thanks for the post Easywater.
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"The PCBs in farm-raised salmon come from the feed, which is made from smaller fish like herring and anchovies. Previous research had hinted at a problem, but a study in the Jan. 9, 2004, Science made a big splash because it was much larger (700 salmon samples) and was published in a prestigious journal. The study found that the PCB concentrations in farm-raised salmon were, on average, almost eight times higher than the concentrations in wild salmon (36.63 parts per billion vs. 4.75). That was still much lower than the FDA limit of 2,000 parts per billion. But the EPA has stricter standards for limiting exposure to pollutants in fish. The researchers said if those guidelines were applied to farm-raised salmon, it would trigger an EPA warning not to eat any of the farm-raised salmon they tested more often than once a month."
In this study, did they not compare farmed Atlantics to less fatty Pacific Salmon? I guess comparing farmed to wild atlantics would have a far less inpact on feelings.
Found it. :)
"As per Pew's specifications, the Hites study compared farmed Atlantic salmon and wild Pacific salmon. Because wild Atlantic salmon and farmed Pacific salmon were excluded, comparisons among the same species of salmon were avoided. In essence, the study compared apples to oranges."
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/did-david-suzuki-prevaricate-about-pcbs-in-farmed-salmon.html
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/files/letter-to-david-suzuki-11may07-8.pdf
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More fake news exposed. :)
http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/searching-for-anvesha-sharma/
Interesting how this "nutritionist" packed up and left when questioned. I mean if it was truly legit they would stick around and respond. The internet can be a great source of information but it's "buyer beware" with many sites.
Well the 2004 Hites study had numerous critics and was kind misleading in many respects. To alarm people away from farmed salmon because of undocumented, long term risk of cancer versus the more immediate threat of heart disease and other obesity related diseases makes no sense to me. I mean we could use the EPA guidelines and be really strict, but is that going to be better for society as a whole or would it be better to encourage people to eat farmed or wild salmon to tackle the immediate health threats?
There are many things we consume that are potentially harmful to us, but some we would have to consume great quantities in such a short time in order to harm us. We would likely vomit first before we suffered long term impacts. I remember folks here in BC being so paranoid about Fukushima impacts, but the amount of radiation they were taking about that was here as a result of the disaster was less than what we are typically exposed to each day. Actually operating a microwave oven was worse I believe. I concede that pregnant woman are going to opt for as little risk as possible, not matter how slight it is. I don't blame them because they are flooded with information on what to do and what not to do and meanwhile baby is coming out in 9 months. As I have said from the beginning, I'm going to encourage my children to eat a balanced diet which can include farmed or wild salmon because it would be a greater risk not to. Personally, I feed them trout I catch because it's something I like to do and encourage them to one day do also for their own kids.
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http://nevalleynews.org/7831/opinion/salmon-farming-a-fishy-situation/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=c3d98f3436-Salmon_News_Dec_7_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-c3d98f3436-166912013&mc_cid=c3d98f3436&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8#prettyPhoto
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You still haven't answered my question.
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https://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/
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At this time of year I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year as I take a break from this thread and give SS a break too, to all his lengthily posts so he can spend more time with his family and maybe some fishing.
Back in 2017.
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You're taking a break to stop the heat and embarrassment of being wrong. You cannot/will not respond to the question so imo, your credibility on this topic is toast.
Stop posting garbage and we will all be better off.
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https://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/
Is she one of your co-workers? Must be paid to write that much prop.
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Is she one of your co-workers? Must be paid to write that much prop.
When you have no facts or science to back your feelings, simply stay true to form and use the personal attack tactic TB. I love it LOL. The ones you follow must be so proud of you. :)
https://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/
I know how much you like this guy so I thought I would re-post him and some of Doc Mortons family heritage for you TB. Enjoy :)
https://youtu.be/0QsCrFANMzc
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Is she one of your co-workers? Must be paid to write that much prop.
troutbreath, here is your opportunity to school Bob and I. What parts of the link posted by Bob are not true? What is misrepresented?
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I couldn't be bothered to read the emotional based material. All I said is she must be paid to write that much drivel. Fill your boots though, cry, laugh and clutch hankies while enjoying her "heart on her sleeve" feelings about her co-workers. :'( :D
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I couldn't be bothered to read the emotional based material.
So, you don't know if Ms. Krause is factual in her statements but you call it drivel .... you're a treat to debate with tb ;D
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I couldn't be bothered to read the emotional based material. All I said is she must be paid to write that much drivel. Fill your boots though, cry, laugh and clutch hankies while enjoying her "heart on her sleeve" feelings about her co-workers. :'( :D
This may help you with the legitimacy of your opinions TB, if you read it that is. :)
http://m.wikihow.com/Form-an-Opinion
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So, you don't know if Ms. Krause is factual in her statements but you call it drivel .... you're a treat to debate with tb ;D
You hired Mike Duffy as a ghost writer. ::) Bob has been is probably shovelling cash to Vivian since he turned turtle on Morton. That's good hanky money down the toilet. Her dad is funding her Bob so you don't have to.
https://www.desmog.ca/vivian-krause
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Interesting, Thanks TB. At least they get to the point. :)
"Who supports our work?
DeSmog Canada is incorporated as a non-profit society under the Society Act of British Columbia. We are funded by individuals and foundations that care about climate change, democracy, science and the environment. Since our launch in 2013, hundreds of readers have donated to support our independent journalism. In addition, we are grateful to accept funding from philanthropic foundations that support our mission. DeSmog Canada's funders neither influence nor endorse our reporting."
Something to think about TB :)
http://www.populartechnology.net/2011/04/truth-about-desmogblog.html?m=1
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troutbreath, here is your opportunity to school Bob and I. What parts of the link posted by Bob are not true? What is misrepresented?
Back to you TB. It seems to me that she has been very transparent where the ones she has been asking fair questions tend to hide from answering. :)
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Back to you TB. It seems to me that she has been very transparent where the ones she has been asking fair questions tend to hide from answering. :)
What part of it is true? Is she your co worker or being paid or both? Back at ya money bags.
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What part of it is true? Is she your co worker or being paid or both? Back at ya money bags.
Since you seem to want to debate the way you do, I am going to say Vivian is correct on all of what she says. Now it is simply up to you to prove me wrong. Back to you TB. :)
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Bob, we both know tb and Chris can't back up their claims fish farming in BC or Washington is causing any harm to wild salmon. Thing is they believe it to be so, therefor in their minds it is.
It doesn't matter to them one bit that in nearly 40 years of fish farming on this coast there has been no link to anything for their concerns.
Hey, even if Almo started working on a fish farm they would still toe the line ;D
One more time to save some semblance of credibility guys - show us we are wrong.
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This may help you with the legitimacy of your opinions TB, if you read it that is. :)
http://m.wikihow.com/Form-an-Opinion
Unfortunately many of the Morton apologists only follow steps 1, 2, 5, 7, and 10. Not necessarily in that order.
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http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/industry-relieved-by-closed-containment-defeat/
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http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/industry-relieved-by-closed-containment-defeat/
It's like hearing Trump won the election. Hopefully consumers make the right choice about what they buy.
"I would emphasize that we are not putting the industry’s needs ahead of the environment"
well well well what a pile of shat
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It's like hearing Trump won the election. Hopefully consumers make the right choice about what they buy.
"I would emphasize that we are not putting the industry’s needs ahead of the environment"
well well well what a pile of shat
What smart choice would that be TB? Save a wild salmon, eat farmed? Seems the eat only wild to save the wild comment is a bit far fetched these days LOL. :)
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Bawb I know it's hard for you to get past open net penned method of salmon farming. So carry on dino.
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troutbreath, you are most certainly the dino in this conversation. Fish farming on the Pacific coast is not going away; you know it but can't accept it; it's called denial.
So you carry on, eat all the wild salmon you can and feel as good as you can about it ::)
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Speaking of denial......You know it doesn't matter a whit to the pro crew about how much information from highly accredited scientists or peer reviewed studies I've posted in the past,(denial) the answer always comes back to the sewer water the feedlots concoct and put out themselves while frantically patting themselves on the back (corporate denial) .Whale deaths? Look over here at this! - Denial. I've posted tons of filth on the feedlots and the ruinous practices the very same companies pull in other countries - all met with denial and codswallop about what a wonderful record they have here. Even more denial. I purposely stayed away from Ms. Morton's studies by using others research- but was accused of being an organ for her.More denial.Post some proven facts - I get called a liar. Even more denial, with a little bit of subterfuge for good measure.
Why bother? Anything I post that's factually based is met with denial and scorn. You can't have a pertinent discussion with a bunch of rocks.
- Merry Christmas everyone!
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troutbreath, you are most certainly the dino in this conversation. Fish farming on the Pacific coast is not going away; you know it but can't accept it; it's called denial.
So you carry on, eat all the wild salmon you can and feel as good as you can about it ::)
Daveosaur I have nothing against FF just the way it's done. Please accept that notion. Also I only eat hatchery salmon and I don't deny that. just sayen
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Looks like there are risks in every thing humans do. Alaska salmon ranching comes to mind.
https://www.wildsalmoncenter.org/2012/05/14/hatchery-risks/
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/hatch-22_the_problem_with_the_pacific_salmon_resurgence/2335/
"In 1970, hatcheries released 500 million young salmon. By 2008, that figure had jumped to 5 billion."
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https://nutrilover.com/farmed-salmon/
Triggered!!!!
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Un-triggered :)
http://www.doh.wa.gov/CommunityandEnvironment/Food/Fish/FarmedSalmon
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Un-triggered :)
http://www.doh.wa.gov/CommunityandEnvironment/Food/Fish/FarmedSalmon
you should mention your information is from the time when dino's roamed the earth.....triggered and lumbering about in the Mesozoic Era
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you should mention your information is from the time when dino's roamed the earth.....triggered and lumbering about in the Mesozoic Era
Perhaps you can help me get up to date on when salmon farming has harmed wild salmon in BC and Washington TB. The only harm I see is keeping the price of wild salmon down. Nothing wrong with a little competition I would think. :)
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Now back be it a a couple of days early.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dead-herring-digby-county-investigation-1.3898021
Wondering what if?
"Fish farm involvement examined
DFO is warning people to only buy herring from licensed harvesters until they figure out why the fished died.
As the list of possible causes is checked off, others are being added, including the possibility of nearby fish farms being involved.
"We've looked into such things as infectious salmon anemia and so far there is no evidence of a link," said Whorley. "But the books aren't closed on all of this."
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Ah Chris ... :) another waste of cyberspace. Have a good new year but please explain how this is relevant to the Pacific coast.
On another note, what's up with Almo? Very quiet lately ...
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Now back be it a a couple of days early.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dead-herring-digby-county-investigation-1.3898021
Wondering what if?
"Fish farm involvement examined
DFO is warning people to only buy herring from licensed harvesters until they figure out why the fished died.
As the list of possible causes is checked off, others are being added, including the possibility of nearby fish farms being involved.
"We've looked into such things as infectious salmon anemia and so far there is no evidence of a link," said Whorley. "But the books aren't closed on all of this."
Maybe you should follow your own advice and stick to the thread title which is "Get Your Facts Straight"
When you actually have some facts regarding this come on back. :P
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/research/perch-shows-potential-in-reducing-sea-lice-infestation-in-fa/
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Interesting stuff!! Thanks Bob
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“There's a pretty good weight of evidence that [PRV] is certainly a factor in the development of HSMI in Atlantic salmon. But what other triggers may be required isn't really well understood," leading genomic researcher Kristi Miller-Saunders, who is with Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO), told CBC News
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/research/perch-shows-potential-in-reducing-sea-lice-infestation-in-fa/
Very cool, Wonder If they would be able to keep them in the pens and not worry about them escaping.
Then again a breeding program for POP would not be a bad thing at all for our local area.
http://www.afsc.noaa.gov/Rockfish-Game/description/POP.htm
"The POP are an important catch for the commercial fisheries from Oregon to the Bering Sea. Most of the POP are caught by bottom trawls, while fewer are caught from midwater trawls. In the 1960s, catches in the Gulf of Alaska peaked at over 300,000 tons, compared to 60,000 tons off British Columbia. In recent years, the diminished B.C. catch has stabilized, increasing somewhat to less than 5,000 tons. Using tight fishery controls and strong recruitment, a long-term rehabilitation effort has occurred recently off Washington and Oregon in an attempt to increase the low POP yield. The POP are occasionally caught by recreational anglers.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/genetically-modified-salmon-cfia-aquabounty-1.3929571
mmmmmmmmmm
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/genetically-modified-salmon-cfia-aquabounty-1.3929571
mmmmmmmmmm
More fishy stuff, thanks for posting.
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People can always have suspicions but that doesn't necessarily mean they are factual. The Canadian Biotechnology Action Network tries to make this Action of Information as some scandalous story but that's just their interpretation which has no facts. Lucy Sharratt can disagree with Aquabounty and GMO fish, but she has no proof that the CFIA is not doing their job properly in this case. Instead she unfairly smears the agency and its employees based on her suspicions that this request influenced their testing and they were more concerned about the company.
The reasons for the expedited testing of these eggs, given the eggs are only viable for so long, are not unreasonable. Priorities at labs are not engraved in stone. It's not uncommon for lab clients to get their samples done as soon as possible. Doesn't mean they are going to get their own way because some tests are just not completed over night. If it's possible to adjust schedules to get testing done sooner for a perishable product without compromising the testing process and safety then why not consider it. At this point, the onus is on the Canadian Biotechnology Action Network to prove that this jumping ahead in the cue compromised safety, not the CFIA to disprove an interpretation of the Action of Information document by the Network.
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More for the boys to pick a part,we got to keep them busy typing. ;D ;D
http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/ourview/fish-farms-indicted-on-sea-trout--debate-is-over-438374.html?utm_source=link&utm_medium=click&utm_campaign=nextandprev
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Nothing to pick a part; means jack squat to this coast, as we don't have sea run brown trout.
Not a lot of typing needed ...
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Nothing to pick a part; means jack squat to this coast, as we don't have sea run brown trout.
Not a lot of typing needed ...
But of course we have others species, a fish is a fish. ::)
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A fish is a fish? :o
OK Chris, yes, we have other species... which ones are being impacted like the brown trout in the Irish link you posted?
Over to you ... again.
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A fish is a fish? :o
OK Chris, yes, we have other species... which ones are being impacted like the brown trout in the Irish link you posted?
Over to you ... again.
http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=&day=11&id=89224&l=e&country=0&special=&ndb=1&df=0&utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=238385a5e4-Salmon_News_Jan12_2017&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-238385a5e4-166912013&mc_cid=238385a5e4&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/reminder-alexandra-morton
http://m.icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/research-innovation/
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/reminder-alexandra-morton
http://m.icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract
Old news.
This one is current, coming to the waters near you? :(
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/price-of-salmon-leaps-50-as-sea-lice-epidemic-worsens?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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The Alaskan salmon farmers will be happy. Btw do they do sealice counts on the 1.5 billion salmon they release each year that compete with wild salmon? Ever think that may enhance the lice problem also? Just thinking outside the box lol. :)
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Old news.
This one is current, coming to the waters near you? :(
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/price-of-salmon-leaps-50-as-sea-lice-epidemic-worsens?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Chris likes to throw this stuff on the wall and come back later to see if any stuck. Because he cites countries with totally different salmon farming conditions, different salmonid species, and varying environmental regulations, as they apply to BC and Washington, very little does.
Keep trying though .. ;D
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Chris likes to throw this stuff on the wall and come back later to see if any stuck. Because he cites countries with totally different salmon farming conditions, different salmonid species, and varying environmental regulations, as they apply to BC and Washington, very little does.
Keep trying though .. ;D
But they're usually the same hacks we have here or divisions of them. That's part of the problem Dave. If they can't run a peanut stand there why should they be trusted here? The only people that blow the horns are the feedlots or their mouthpieces. They must be double jointed to be able to pat their own backs so furiously. There's NOTHING independent from salmonfarmingunmonitored or salmonfarmingnonsense.
OH BTW - I still owe you $10 and I forgot to give it to Chris at the hockey game.Great repair! I'll throw in a bonus for my tardiness.
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Nova, the repair is on me. Your pm when I lost my dog Molly really made an impression as to your character, and our lunches haven't changed my mind ;)
Now, just admit there are 2 coasts where salmon are farmed and the conditions, and practices, are totally different and we are good, lol!!
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/News/farm-raised-salmon-is-greener-than-chicken-beef/
Two pages on this link.
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http://aquaculturenorthamerica.com/Finfish/salt-water-fish/a-challenging-environment-for-land-based-salmon-farming/
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Debunking fake news that does not back up what they say with facts.
http://www.marineharvest.ca/about/blog-marine-harvest-canada/2017/worlds-most-toxic-news/
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No surprise here ...
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
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No surprise here ...
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
And the link below that story? :o
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-fish-farm-fuel-spill-still-spreading-and-theres-no-way-to-clean-it-up-fisheries
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Independent biologist Alexandra Morton said the spill could have been worse, since juvenile pink and chum salmon — which eat insects from the surface — will soon pass through the area.
Actually insects, if any, make up a very small portion of their diet at the juvenile stage. Mostly made up of other items like amphipods, copapods, decapods, and euphausiids.
http://people.oregonstate.edu/~brodeuri/webpage%20pdf%20and%20docs/BrodeurAFS.pdf
http://www.npafc.org/new/publications/Technical%20Report/TR9/Cook%20and%20Sturdevant.pdf
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f73-164?journalCode=jfrbc#/doi/abs/10.1139/f73-164?journalCode=jfrbc
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Jeez, there you go with facts again ;D
You just know she had to say something about this, and as usual it was embarrassing.
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Independent biologist Alexandra Morton said the spill could have been worse, since juvenile pink and chum salmon — which eat insects from the surface — will soon pass through the area.
Actually insects, if any, make up a very small portion of their diet at the juvenile stage. Mostly made up of other items like amphipods, copapods, decapods, and euphausiids.
http://people.oregonstate.edu/~brodeuri/webpage%20pdf%20and%20docs/BrodeurAFS.pdf
http://www.npafc.org/new/publications/Technical%20Report/TR9/Cook%20and%20Sturdevant.pdf
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f73-164?journalCode=jfrbc#/doi/abs/10.1139/f73-164?journalCode=jfrbc
So it's OK if just a little of their diet is poisoned with diesel..... :o
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So it's OK if just a little of their diet is poisoned with diesel..... :o
Ah, that's your comment. I was just stating the facts about their diet. Feel free to dispute the information with your own alternative facts.
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Actually insects, if any, make up a very small portion of their diet at the juvenile stage.
Nope - yours, not mine.So your saying a little diesel is OK?
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No surprise here ...
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
"Large, land-based Atlantic salmon farms are under construction in Norway, Switzerland and Nova Scotia. "
no surprise :-\
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Nope - yours, not mine.So your saying a little diesel is OK?
Hmmm, no it was yours.....
So it's OK if just a little of their diet is poisoned with diesel
That would be you that said that.......That was your comment....The one I was referring to in my previous post.......But thanks for the alternative facts.
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Clean your glasses Brian - You stated that little, if any of the diet consisted of insects.Does the escaped diesel have or have the possibility of creating health issues for the fish? Simple query, and since you work in the fisheries field one might expect a lucid answer, not skirting the issue.Insinuating I'm a liar or I distort the facts? ::)
You may wish to read this again.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/reports-rapports/vicr-virc/vicr-virc2012-eng.htm#dem
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http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm
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No surprise here ...
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
Not so quick. CBC Interview – Kuterra LP continues to operate its land-based Atlantic salmon farm with full staff, excellent operating conditions, fish growing into 2018, and a trajectory to break even this year. Kuterra is now talking to potential investors about a range of positions and actions to leverage its achievements as a pilot facility into a profitable business, and to pay back the loans the ‘Namgis First Nation guaranteed on behalf of Kuterra when the company needed help in the early years of intense R&D.
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Any link to this breaking news ...?
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Clean your glasses Brian - You stated that little, if any of the diet consisted of insects.Does the escaped diesel have or have the possibility of creating health issues for the fish? Simple query, and since you work in the fisheries field one might expect a lucid answer, not skirting the issue.Insinuating I'm a liar or I distort the facts? ::)
You may wish to read this again.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/reports-rapports/vicr-virc/vicr-virc2012-eng.htm#dem
Nice spin, but it won't save you. What I said about the diet of juveniles chum and pink is not remotely close to your comment about their diet being poisoned with diesel. I never mentioned anything about diesel poisoning - you did. Again, I was referring to your comment. Why would I be referring to my comment if I quoted yours...lol? Silly.
Saying "So it's ok if just a little of their diet is poisoned with diesel" is basically asking me to confirm your speculation. It's not a question - you have your conclusion and now you want me to verify it for you. Now your latest post actually displays how you should have originally asked the question, but considering how combative you are towards me why should I assist you? Actually why should anyone? I know well enough now that those that subscribe to certain preconceived narratives only listen to what aligns to their beliefs. The CBC did a follow up report on the spill which included comment on fate of the remaining diesel. Read it. Want to know more about the toxicology of diesel on aquatic life - look it up. I'm not interested in providing answers (or trying to find out) to those that don't appreciate them and are not interested in a productive dialogue.
Our latest encounter reminds me of the recent Melissa McCarthy skit on SNL from 2:40 to 3:25 where she plays White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. I had the same look as that actor that played the reporter.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw1JzeqLFfQ
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https://youtu.be/sggqHCEjz-A
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Nice spin, but it won't save you. What I said about the diet of juveniles chum and pink is not remotely close to your comment about their diet being poisoned with diesel. I never mentioned anything about diesel poisoning - you did. Again, I was referring to your comment. Why would I be referring to my comment if I quoted yours...lol? Silly.
Saying "So it's ok if just a little of their diet is poisoned with diesel" is basically asking me to confirm your speculation. It's not a question - you have your conclusion and now you want me to verify it for you. Now your latest post actually displays how you should have originally asked the question, but considering how combative you are towards me why should I assist you? Actually why should anyone? I know well enough now that those that subscribe to certain preconceived narratives only listen to what aligns to their beliefs. The CBC did a follow up report on the spill which included comment on fate of the remaining diesel. Read it. Want to know more about the toxicology of diesel on aquatic life - look it up. I'm not interested in providing answers (or trying to find out) to those that don't appreciate them and are not interested in a productive dialogue.
Our latest encounter reminds me of the recent Melissa McCarthy skit on SNL from 2:40 to 3:25 where she plays White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer. I had the same look as that actor that played the reporter.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw1JzeqLFfQ
A lotta verbosity to say no, I don't know. ::) Humour an old man - don't ever call my integrity or honesty into question. Of the few things a man might have, those are the ones that I prize.
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No posts for weeks better get it going again. :-X ;D https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-short/fish-farms-can-be-disease-accelerators
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A lotta verbosity to say no, I don't know. ::) Humour an old man - don't ever call my integrity or honesty into question. Of the few things a man might have, those are the ones that I prize.
I would do a check on this honesty and integrity thing you claim. He gave a detailed, logical reason to not answer your ridiculous "when did you stop beating your wife" question and you immediately accused him of lying about his knowledge. How is there integrity in that? Bending your response to mis-interpret his answer is mis-stating facts and akin to lying, isn't it? I think I am suggesting that your integrity and honesty prizes are finishing off the podium.
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I would do a check on this honesty and integrity thing you claim. He gave a detailed, logical reason to not answer your ridiculous "when did you stop beating your wife" question and you immediately accused him of lying about his knowledge. How is there integrity in that? Bending your response to mis-interpret his answer is mis-stating facts and akin to lying, isn't it? I think I am suggesting that your integrity and honesty prizes are finishing off the podium.
I asked an honest question to a person employed in the science end of fisheries. Maybe the way I posed them wasn't to your personal satisfaction, so that makes me a liar and lacking integrity> That's just plain the weirdest interpretation.I'm just an ignorant plebe,but a curious one. However, before I ask any more questions should I pm them to you for vetting? Perhaps you could reword them to your personal satisfaction and then I'll post them. ;)
And if you can, please show me the error of my ways and the lies I've posted. Can't? That's because there aren't any.
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No posts for weeks better get it going again. :-X ;D https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-short/fish-farms-can-be-disease-accelerators
Did you read paragraph three? No, didn't think so ;D
Keep stirring the pot Chris. Some day you might have something worth reporting.
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Did you read paragraph three? No, didn't think so ;D
Keep stirring the pot Chris. Some day you might have something worth reporting.
Well the Leafs made the playoffs, I had the right. ;D ;D ;D
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I may as well throw a log on the fire: https://www.voanews.com/a/norway-salmon-lice/3818568.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/norway-salmon-lice/3818568.html)
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Interesting post. The best part is this new technology is being tested far away from this coast ;)
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Interesting post. The best part is this new technology is being tested far away from this coast ;)
Agreed, but it seems to admittedly increase the risk of escaped farmed fish.
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http://www.mapleridgenews.com/opinion/along-the-fraser-where-do-they-stand-on-fish/
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https://vimeo.com/214302093
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Kristi Miller-Saunders speaks about aquaculture. From December 2016.
https://youtu.be/VSIZgWdW0T8
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Caught me at home ..
6 months ago this was all over the internet, and now you post this?? Welcome back Chris ??? ???
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Caught me at home ..
6 months ago this was all over the internet, and now you post this?? Welcome back Chris ??? ???
keeping the thread alive. Any comments on the video?
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https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/
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Nice post Fb. Might get Chris re thinking his agenda ;)
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/06/13/Fish-Farm-Drops-Trespass-Lawsuit/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=130617
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sea-lice-bc-salmon-1.4162794
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https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/
I kind of agree that climate change and perhaps hatcheries are an issue. Climate change will almost certainly wipe out salmon populations in the South Coast within 30 years. Even as it is there is not much good news as far as salmon stocks are concerned on the southern inside waters & the interior Fraser watershed.
However I'd note that since the Broughton collapse sea lice control programs have been followed, measured and adjusted so a collapse may have been avoided by those measures.
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/06/20/Wild-Salmon-Sea-Lice-Study/
http://www.seangodwin.org/Godwinetal_2017_JFB.pdf
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Really this is still going on??? ;D
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Really this is still going on??? ;D
We haven't got the facts straight yet!
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Really this is still going on??? ;D
Only for a select few ;)
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Only for a select few ;)
Not so much any more since it was realized I'm right all the time. I thought I was wrong once but I was simply mistaken. ;)
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https://www.bcbusiness.ca/Raising-fish-and-vegetables-in-the-same-water
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One of the several videos I filmed on board the Sea Shepherds Virus Hunter's Martin Sheen boat at Fishermen's Wharf last Thursday. This one has Martin Sheen speaking, was a good afternoon with Alexandra Morton, Eddie Gardner, David Suzuki and many others. https://youtu.be/RfLJww0ROIk
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yawn
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yawn
Yes a number of you have been yawning for some time and some have gone to sleep as we never hear from them, I guess they have now seen the errors of their ways. ::) ;D
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yawn
I\m leaving for Nova Scotia on Saturday Dave. I'll have some disturbing new material for you from some of the same players that inhabit the coast here as well as the Crook, um , Cooke crew.
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Enjoy your trip Bill :)
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/03/Morton-Launches-Offensive-Against-Salmon-Farms/?utm_source=daily
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/03/Morton-Launches-Offensive-Against-Salmon-Farms/?utm_source=daily
Thank you for your post Chris. Looks like the shenanigans migrate for another year. Do you think Doc Morton will remember to take a microscope along with her this year?
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here's something for the teeth gnashers
http://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/news/canadians-buy-4-5-tonnes-of-gm-salmon/
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=803
Sea Shepherd throwing around a (red) herring
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Goes to show that not much has changed.
http://farmfreshsalmon.org/salmon-farm-science-%E2%80%9Ctouched-nerve%E2%80%9D-alexandra-morton
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not sure if you guys have reviewed this one
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2641448?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
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For sure, it was big news when it came out seventeen years ago. Since then I am not aware of any siting's of adults or juveniles in Pacific coast rivers, and the issue of potential colonization of Atlantic's had apparently gone to bed.
Now it's back :) Good, we needed to keep this thread going in Chris's absence.
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For sure, it was big news when it came out seventeen years ago. Since then I am not aware of any siting's of adults or juveniles in Pacific coast rivers, and the issue of potential colonization of Atlantic's had apparently gone to bed.
Now it's back :) Good, we needed to keep this thread going in Chris's absence.
Hard to have sightings when no one walks the streams to count them any more, how convenient
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sfu-salmon-study-1.4256265
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/timeline_Atlantic_salmon_Pacific-Coast.pdf
They do not seem to survive in Pacific waters.
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Hard to have sightings when no one walks the streams to count them any more, how convenient
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sfu-salmon-study-1.4256265
True enough but I think more than enough anglers are out there to report finding Atlantic's ... if they were there.
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/timeline_Atlantic_salmon_Pacific-Coast.pdf
They do not seem to survive in Pacific waters.
quote]
yeah sensitive little muffins like steelhead if you can't compete get out!
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http://globalnews.ca/video/3691773/rally-at-vancouver-dfo-offices-against-b-c-fish-farms
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/24/protect_salmon/?utm_source=daily
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http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/fish-spill-bigger-than-initial-estimates-farm-destroyed/
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http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/canada-monitoring-u-s-salmon-spill-it-s-very-serious-minister-says-1.22154482?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=6084867b76-Salmon_News_Aug25_2017&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-6084867b76-237222109&mc_cid=6084867b76&mc_eid=efab37499f
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not sure if you guys have reviewed this one
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2641448?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Have you read the 2012 Cohen report, specifically the sections dealing with the impacts of Atlantic Salmon on Fraser Sockeye which included expert testimony and evidence?
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Hard to have sightings when no one walks the streams to count them any more, how convenient
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sfu-salmon-study-1.4256265
There is a little hyperbole in your comment. While I don't necessarily disagree with the author's findings (other than highlight the uncertainty that surrounds models that predict how reduced fishing would impact CU status) if you had read the paper you would have noticed that the results of the study were based on data from the North and Central coasts - not province wide. Unfortunately when this story came out, fish farm critics jumped at the talking points from the more vocal activists. The media was partially responsible. Again, context is important and so are facts.
It's not true that nobody walks the streams anymore. What I will say is that some species of Pacific salmon in BC are assessed much better than others and some watersheds are assessed much better than others. Doesn't mean there is no problems or challenges in these other areas, but there are crews (DFO and First Nations) on the ground walking streams, conducting live counts, dead pitching carcasses and doing biological sampling. Yes, budget cuts from the past federal government certainly didn't help and have hampered our ability to fully implement the Wild Salmon Policy, but I get annoyed when I keep reading on social media that nobody walks streams anymore. These crews do a great job and encounter many salmon carcasses and would be diligent enough to recognize anything out of the ordinary including sightings of Atlantic Salmon.
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/atlantic-salmon-catches-hint-at-widening-circle-of-escaped-fish-in-b-c-water
already spotted in Sechelt and fort Renfrew.
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/atlantic-salmon-catches-hint-at-widening-circle-of-escaped-fish-in-b-c-water
already spotted in Sechelt and fort Renfrew.
Seal food ;D
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http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/occupiers-dig-in-for-protest-at-salmon-farm-off-alert-bay-1.22237550
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Nothing new there Chris. Doc Morton is not much of a biologist if she has never seen that before imo. All she needs to do is open a book. :). More fear factor than anything.
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The escape of thousands of Atlantic salmon from an imploded net pen in the San Juan Islands this month led to further calls to close the farms and move to land-based operations. In response to the escape, Washington state issued a moratorium on new net-pen permits.
B.C. Agriculture Minister Lana Popham said Monday the provincial government has put a hold on new tenure permits for salmon farms. The last tenure permits issued were to four operations in 2015.
only Fred Flinstone supporting open pens now :o
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The escape of thousands of Atlantic salmon from an imploded net pen in the San Juan Islands this month led to further calls to close the farms and move to land-based operations. In response to the escape, Washington state issued a moratorium on new net-pen permits.
B.C. Agriculture Minister Lana Popham said Monday the provincial government has put a hold on new tenure permits for salmon farms. The last tenure permits issued were to four operations in 2015.
only Fred Flinstone supporting open pens now :o
If any juveniles show up in the screw traps on the Nooksack and Skagit rivers in the next year or two, we will know this was a total disaster. Until then, we just wait and watch.
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An update from Alex.
Here is a little recap of what is going on right now. There are two occupations underway of salmon farms in the Broughton Archipelago. One is on the Swanson Island Marine Harvest site, led by Ernest Alfred and the other on the Wicklow Marine Harvest site led by Willie Moon, which started just this afternoon! The Shusawp Nation sent a press release out in support of these occupations, as the collapsing Fraser River salmon are exposed to farm salmon effluent and they are seeing sickness in the fish they are catching.
Twenty US treaty tribes are pushing for the closure of salmon farms in Puget Sound as a result of the farm salmon spill and Atlantic salmon all over the place. Some are now being caught in BC and I am hoping to track a few of them down with your help and test them.
Both fish farm occupations are calling for the end of fish farming in the territories of the Musgamagw Dzawada'enuxw, Namgis and Mamalilikulla (Broughton Archipelago) who have been telling government this for over 30 years, but government ignored them and put 1/3 of salmon farms in their territories!!
The provincial NDP have the power to revoke the salmon farm Licences of Occupation in this territory. Claire Trevena said she would clear these territories of salmon farms when she was trying to get elected and she did get elected. Today the NDP are telling everyone that aquaculture is going to be on the agenda at the all Minister's meeting in Vancouver in a few days, not really good enough BUT Chief Willie Moon and others involved in these occupations are going to be in that meeting. So we will get to hear what the NDP government is going to do about all this.
There are two choices for the NDP tell First Nations they HAVE to have salmon farms no matter what or cancel salmon farming tenures where First Nations have said no for over 30 years
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Yeah the expected hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims again. Classic Morton.
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/09/04/Better-Way-To-Farm-Fish/
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/escaped-atlantic-salmon-reported-250-km-north-of-collapsed-fish-farm-1.4288626
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The beginning of the end one would hope. http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/no-invasive-species-sooke-moves-to-ban-atlantic-salmon-farms-after-escape-1.3592154#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=K10rnCS
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The beginning of the end one would hope. http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/no-invasive-species-sooke-moves-to-ban-atlantic-salmon-farms-after-escape-1.3592154#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=K10rnCS
They banned land based operations. Seems a s s backwards to me
"We don’t have any jurisdiction, we recognize that, but we do over what’s on the land, and that’s why the zoning amendment would prohibit any land-based operations,” Tait said. “The message is that we don’t want to have this invasive species within our community.”
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Monteray Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch thinks BC's farmed salmon is a "Good Alternative".
https://www.seafoodwatch.org/seafood-recommendations/groups/salmon
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/09/21/Fish-Farm-Occupations-Tensions/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=210917
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http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/alexandra_morton/2017/09/the-last-farm-salmon-harvest-at-swanson-island.html
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Yeah the expected hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims again. Classic Morton.
Now is your chance to speak when the Wild Salmon Caravan is in Kamloops next week, hope to see you there. if not I may have to come to your office. ;D ;D ;D
The Wild Salmon Caravan is a celebration of BC's Sockeye Salmon return organized by the Working Group for Indigenous Food Sovereignty. This event involves caravaners traveling for along the migratory path of BC’s sockeye salmon, from the Pacific Ocean to the Adam's River, stopping in communities along the way, hosting ceremonies, prayers, and parades to celebrate this keystone species and call for its protection.
You're invited to the Wild Salmon Caravan Parade in Kamloops. On October 11 at 10 a.m. in Riverside Park, caravaners and paraders will begin to gather. There will be ceremony, a welcome, then a lively parade along 3rd to Victoria through the Farmers Market to 5th to Landsdowne back to the Park. After the parade, there will be refreshments served at Riverside Park, and performances from the Melawmen Collective, JUST duo, Solidarity NOtes Choir, and Jarrod Doherty.
Everyone is encouraged to parade their creatively: make and wear costumes, decorate and ride bikes, make banners, posters, and flags that relate to wild salmon. There will be a number of Arts Build Workshops where you can create materials for the parade. Information about these workshops will be posted on Facebook as they become available.
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RIP Raif Mair. A strong supporter of environmental issues.
https://rafeonline.com/tag/salmon-farms/
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Yeah the expected hyperbole and unsubstantiated claims again. Classic Morton.
As usual SS stayed in hiding when we were in Kamloops, but he could have been peering from behind some building. ;D ;D
The Caravan went very well at all stops from Vancouver to Chase, very few sockeye in the Adams River. I will have some video from along the way. There is some great pictures taken by Murray Bush on the Wild Salmon Caravan FB page.
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As usual SS stayed in hiding when we were in Kamloops, but he could have been peering from behind some building. ;D ;D
The Caravan went very well at all stops from Vancouver to Chase, very few sockeye in the Adams River. I will have some video from along the way. There is some great pictures taken by Murray Bush on the Wild Salmon Caravan FB page.
Sorry, not into following fish farm protests, especially when I have kids to tend to. Hope you had a nice visit at the Adams.
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Hmm.....
https://www.ctv.ca/W5/Video/S52E4-Farm-TroublesThe-Good-Fight-vid1211499 (https://www.ctv.ca/W5/Video/S52E4-Farm-TroublesThe-Good-Fight-vid1211499)
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Hmm.....
https://www.ctv.ca/W5/Video/S52E4-Farm-TroublesThe-Good-Fight-vid1211499 (https://www.ctv.ca/W5/Video/S52E4-Farm-TroublesThe-Good-Fight-vid1211499)
Thanks for that. The pro crew will be here in a minute defending the mealy mouthed bunkmates and/or the piece was slanted or claim we're all bathing in ignorance. Marty came across as about with the same sincerity level as Donald Trump. Put the damn things on land.
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http://www.bclocalnews.com/opinion/b-c-views-salmon-farm-smear-campaign-sinks/
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Tom Fletcher has proven himself to be an idiot, charlatan and purveyor of bovine scatology time and time again.
http://www.mwpr.ca/go9099a/AN_IN_DEPTH_OPINION_FROM_TOM_FLETCHER_ON_THE_TAR_SANDS
http://climate.uvic.ca/people/ewiebe/tom_fletcher_13.php
http://northerninsights.blogspot.ca/2015/02/agenda-journalism.html
"You saw nothing in the city media because organizers can’t publicize the event, lest the protesters pull out their familiar placards and descend."
So anybody with a contrary view is not allowed to participate in a public policy forum because they don't march in lockstep with a predetermined agenda....Now that's democracy...
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Sorry, not into following fish farm protests, especially when I have kids to tend to. Hope you had a nice visit at the Adams.
Family is always important of course but you knew we would be in Kamloops for some time now and surely you could have made arrangements to be away for an hour. Would have been nice to meet you and discuss things face to face, maybe next year. Say hi To Dale M. for me.
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Fishers and First Nations: hipster hypocrites are using you
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=815
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well written
https://www.straight.com/news/981166/celia-brauer-open-net-fish-farms-and-modern-mainstream-economics-match-made-hell
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Ha ha, looks like native issues are going to be the downfall of fish farms with both the federal and provincial governments looking to make concessions to the native groups.
http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-popham-pens-eviction-notice-like-letter-to-fish-farms
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FN have always been the potential game changer in the Broughton ... time will tell the tale but I suspect if necessary the farms will relocate and secure partnerships with FN in nearby friendly territory.
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What I would like to see is for the Provincial and Federal government put up funds to build the land based infrastructure for fish farms. Lease it back to the companys for next to nothing.
We need farm salmon. There is not enough wild salmon to support the popularity of it.
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Bob, Dave and SS, the beginning of the end, all the work by many is starting to pay off. No wonder SS did not want to meet when the Wild Salmon Caravan was in Kamloops. :-X
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/10/horgans-tone-salmon-farming-unsettling-marine-harv/
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More to disturb Bob, Dave and SS. :-X :P http://theprovince.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-horgan-points-accusing-finger-at-fish-farm-fearmongers/wcm/e82c648e-5da1-48f3-8819-6a664d0d970d
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More to disturb Bob, Dave and SS. :-X :P http://theprovince.com/opinion/columnists/vaughn-palmer-horgan-points-accusing-finger-at-fish-farm-fearmongers/wcm/e82c648e-5da1-48f3-8819-6a664d0d970d
Will make you a bet right now nothing changes ....
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/first-nations-encouraged-by-pophams-warning-shot-to-fish-farms
"Popham confirmed the government is investigating Marty’s research at the request of First Nations."
Hopefully they include Morton in the investigation! Next they will investigating Bombast Bob.
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Burn...
"First Nations are also asking the government to fire provincial fish pathologist Dr. Gary Marty, who has refuted claims that fish farms pose a significant risk to wild salmon".
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Will make you a bet right now nothing changes ....
It has changed as SS has given up like you will be with the Canucks soon. ;D ;D ;D
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The results for this year have not been reported yet but apparently no tagged sockeye made it passed where there is a high density of fish farms. Lots died at the mouth of the Fraser where seal, bird and other predator fish populations are high. The technology is super new, so it's possible the batteries died. So know conclusions should be made.
I just when i saw it thought hmmmmm.... who knows if there is any causation or correlation. Time will tell when the tech gets better
Press play
From 2017
http://kintama.com/animator/dep/Chilko2017_sockeye/
From 2016
http://kintama.com/animator/dep/Chilko2016_sockeye/
Study info
http://marinesurvivalproject.com/research_activity/list/juvenile-salmon-studies-ca/
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Bob, Dave and SS, the beginning of the end, all the work by many is starting to pay off. No wonder SS did not want to meet when the Wild Salmon Caravan was in Kamloops. :-X
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/10/horgans-tone-salmon-farming-unsettling-marine-harv/
The article you posted is inaccurate. Cohen didn’t recommend locating fish farms away from migratory routes. He did make other recommendations though. If you or other wild salmon conservationists haven’t read the Cohen Final Report which was released back in 2012 here is the section being referred to here:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2012/bcp-pco/CP32-93-2012-3-eng.pdf
See Recommendations #14 to 21
Funny how you are after me for not finding the time to attend “wild salmon caravans”, but you and many other fish farm critics (and apparently some media reporters now) have had 5 years to review the Cohen Final Report. Why is that? You should also understand the difference between consultation and consent or between consultation and veto.
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http://www.surreynowleader.com/opinion/b-c-views-horgan-fumbles-salmon-farm-threat/
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Good ol' Tom :) Another column I agree with.
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http://www.surreynowleader.com/opinion/b-c-views-horgan-fumbles-salmon-farm-threat/
Neither Popham nor Horgan demonstrated a detailed understanding of the Cohen Commission’s findings.
Shocker
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The article you posted is inaccurate. Cohen didn’t recommend locating fish farms away from migratory routes. He did make other recommendations though. If you or other wild salmon conservationists haven’t read the Cohen Final Report which was released back in 2012 here is the section being referred to here:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2012/bcp-pco/CP32-93-2012-3-eng.pdf
See Recommendations #14 to 21
Funny how you are after me for not finding the time to attend “wild salmon caravans”, but you and many other fish farm critics (and apparently some media reporters now) have had 5 years to review the Cohen Final Report. Why is that? You should also understand the difference between consultation and consent or between consultation and veto.
The sad part to all of this is in my mind and many others is the majority of those that defend fish farms either work or worked for them, have investments in FF companies, worked at one time or work now for FOC so they have no choice but defend FOC policies.
We all know how FOC mishandles the fishery on the east coast and now we feel are doing the same here on the Pacific, shame is a polite word for it.
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http://www.surreynowleader.com/opinion/b-c-views-horgan-fumbles-salmon-farm-threat/
Black Press political reporter Tom Fletcher, whose wife is a Public Affairs Officer for the BC Liberal Government, no wonder he defends liberal policies. :-X
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The sad part to all of this is in my mind and many others is the majority of those that defend fish farms either work or worked for them, have investments in FF companies, worked at one time or work now for FOC so they have no choice but defend FOC policies.
Do you honestly believe because I once worked for DFO I have no choice but to support fish farms?
Have you ever considered that because of my previous work and interactions with people far brighter than me is the very reason I do support them?
Fish farming won't go away because BC has a new government but I do think a few farms will be relocated to areas where FN will welcome them.
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The sad part to all of this is in my mind and many others is the majority of those that defend fish farms either work or worked for them, have investments in FF companies, worked at one time or work now for FOC so they have no choice but defend FOC policies.
We all know how FOC mishandles the fishery on the east coast and now we feel are doing the same here on the Pacific, shame is a polite word for it.
That’s a total blanket statement based mostly on conjecture. While there are likely those that have worked for aquaculture and government at some point of their careers you are defending the lack of knowledge of basic Cohen facts by environmentalists by throwing people at FOC under the bus. Take responsibility for things you and other environmentalists say which are dead wrong on instead of saying FOC employees have no choice to defend FOC policies.
Critics of BC open net pen aquaculture would serve themselves better if they stayed with the facts (all, not just selected), avoided hyperbole, distance themselves from those that are actually dragging them down (i.e. Morton) and work collaboratively with government and university scientists into these issues. It’s difficult (not impossible) to have a discussion about this because you have formed your conclusion based on selecting information that favours that conclusion without looking at the whole picture and all the evidence. You aren’t even aware of the Cohen recommendations - instead side with sources which are 100% incorrect and it can be easily demonstrated as such. There are likely many in government that want the same thing as you do, but don’t agree with the approach.
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So I used to hate fish farms but one morning I woke up and walked down my stairs, looked out my kitchen window into my nabours house. There kitchen window also looks straight into our as we live in a townhouse. On a wall in there kitchen they have a caulk board where they do a weekly dinner menu. On it they had salmon scheduled twice for dinner in one week.
They don't fish as most people who consume salmon now don't. With out Fish Farms where would they get there fish? how much pressure would this put on wild stocks? Could these people one day put up enough of a stink that they close down a rec fishery for only a commercial managed one? If they can't get salmon from Canadian fish farms would they turn to american or south american ones?
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http://www.nanaimobulletin.com/opinion/letter-to-the-editor-fish-farming-done-responsibly/
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The article you posted is inaccurate. Cohen didn’t recommend locating fish farms away from migratory routes. He did make other recommendations though. If you or other wild salmon conservationists haven’t read the Cohen Final Report which was released back in 2012 here is the section being referred to here:
http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2012/bcp-pco/CP32-93-2012-3-eng.pdf
See Recommendations #14 to 21
Funny how you are after me for not finding the time to attend “wild salmon caravans”, but you and many other fish farm critics (and apparently some media reporters now) have had 5 years to review the Cohen Final Report. Why is that? You should also understand the difference between consultation and consent or between consultation and veto.
Recommendation #14 says:
Beginning immediately and continuing until at least September 30, 2020, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should ensure that
■ the maximum duration of any licence issued under the Pacific Aquaculture Regulations for a net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) does not exceed one year;
■ DFO does not issue new licences for netpen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2); and
■ DFO does not permit increases in production at any existing net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2).
Discovery Islands start just north of Campbell River (Cortes, Quadra) - the main migratory route for emerging salmon.
Recommendation 15:
The Department of Fisheries and Oceans should explicitly consider proximity to migrating Fraser River sockeye when siting salmon farms.
Recommendation 19:
On September 30, 2020, the minister of fisheries and oceans should prohibit net-pen salmon farming in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) unless he or she
is satisfied that such farms pose at most a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon. The minister’s decision should summarize the
information relied on and include detailed reasons. The decision should be published on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ website.
If that isn't good enough for you - page 92:
the state of scientific research about sockeye–fish farm interactions is not sufficiently developed to rule out diseases and pathogens on salmon farms as contributing to the decline of Fraser River sockeye and posing future risks.
Fraser River sockeye face some likelihood of harm from disease and pathogens on salmon farms. However, I cannot quantify the likelihood of harm occurring. That requires further study.
Salmon farms along the sockeye migration route in the Discovery Islands have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases which can have a negative impact on Fraser River sockeye.
Disease can cause significant population declines, and, in some situations – for example, if a disease were to wipe out a vulnerable stock of Fraser River sockeye – such effects could be irreversible.
I therefore conclude that the potential harm posed by salmon farms to Fraser River sockeye salmon is serious or irreversible.
You forgot recommendation #3:
The Government of Canada should remove from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product.
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Some more ??? from the NDP about fish farms ... Chris, take note.
http://www.canada.com/news/politics/ottawa+denies+minister+claims+about+fish+farm+complaint/15326615/story.html
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So I used to hate fish farms but one morning I woke up and walked down my stairs, looked out my kitchen window into my nabours house. There kitchen window also looks straight into our as we live in a townhouse. On a wall in there kitchen they have a caulk board where they do a weekly dinner menu. On it they had salmon scheduled twice for dinner in one week.
They don't fish as most people who consume salmon now don't. With out Fish Farms where would they get there fish? how much pressure would this put on wild stocks? Could these people one day put up enough of a stink that they close down a rec fishery for only a commercial managed one? If they can't get salmon from Canadian fish farms would they turn to american or south american ones?
if FOC would do a better job of looking after our wild stocks and their habitat we would not have to rely on FF and also lets put them on land. Look how they have allowed so many projects to go ahead that have allowed that have destroyed fish habitat. I know the readers of this thread are well aware of them so no need to list.
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Recommendation #14 says:
Beginning immediately and continuing until at least September 30, 2020, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should ensure that
■ the maximum duration of any licence issued under the Pacific Aquaculture Regulations for a net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) does not exceed one year;
■ DFO does not issue new licences for netpen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2); and
■ DFO does not permit increases in production at any existing net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2).
Discovery Islands start just north of Campbell River (Cortes, Quadra) - the main migratory route for emerging salmon.
Recommendation 15:
The Department of Fisheries and Oceans should explicitly consider proximity to migrating Fraser River sockeye when siting salmon farms.
Recommendation 19:
On September 30, 2020, the minister of fisheries and oceans should prohibit net-pen salmon farming in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) unless he or she
is satisfied that such farms pose at most a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon. The minister’s decision should summarize the
information relied on and include detailed reasons. The decision should be published on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ website.
If that isn't good enough for you - page 92:
the state of scientific research about sockeye–fish farm interactions is not sufficiently developed to rule out diseases and pathogens on salmon farms as contributing to the decline of Fraser River sockeye and posing future risks.
Fraser River sockeye face some likelihood of harm from disease and pathogens on salmon farms. However, I cannot quantify the likelihood of harm occurring. That requires further study.
Salmon farms along the sockeye migration route in the Discovery Islands have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases which can have a negative impact on Fraser River sockeye.
Disease can cause significant population declines, and, in some situations – for example, if a disease were to wipe out a vulnerable stock of Fraser River sockeye – such effects could be irreversible.
I therefore conclude that the potential harm posed by salmon farms to Fraser River sockeye salmon is serious or irreversible.
You forgot recommendation #3:
The Government of Canada should remove from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product.
Thanks for this lets see how the PP gang deals with this, they seem to have answers for everything, especially those that have worked for FOC and still do.
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More to keep the boys busy answering and scratching their heads. ;D
Farmed Salmon disease jump to Wild Salmon ... overview of a new NINA (Norways environmental department ) report .
Åse Helen Garseth is a researcher at the Veterinary Institute and a member of the RCL.
In Norway, we have a stock of approximately 350 million (700,000 tonnes) of farmed Atlantic salmon distributed at approx. 600 active locations along the coast. During the sea phase, the salmon is bred mainly in open cages. This farming situation, where a large number of individuals are kept in a relatively small volume, involves on the one hand infection exchange between individuals within the cage, and on the other hand that the infection can spread to the surrounding environment and wild fish. In addition, a large number of farmed fish escapes every year and a proportion of these find their way up the rivers. The described situation is the reason why infectious diseases in fish farming are considered a threat to wild salmonids.
Infectious status in the aquaculture industry
In the project Lack of salmon fish in the sea, conducted by the Norwegian Food Safety Authority and FHF in 2013, it was shown that 6-7% of farmed fish died as a result of infectious diseases during the period between sea and slaughter. Infections are thus one of the major biological and economic challenges in the aquaculture industry. The Veterinary Institute has for a number of years described the number of cases of the various fish diseases in its annual Fisheries Report.
Although many of the important bacterial diseases in the industry are controlled using vaccines, it remains to get knowledge and control of several microorganisms and parasites. In 2016, the Veterinary Institute diagnosed 360 cases of viral disease in the sea (pancreatic disease - PD 138, infectious pancreatic necrosis - IPN 19, infectious salmon anemia - ILA 12, heart and skeletal muscle inflammation - HSMB 101 and cardiomyopathy syndrome - CMS 90) (Fish Health Report). The number of cases of non-notifiable diseases IPN, CMS and HSMB is probably higher, since the diagnoses can also be made by private laboratories and fish health services.
It has taken decades to come where we are today in terms of knowledge about salmon lice and interaction wild-farming. We must acknowledge that research on the effects of other infectious diseases in fish farming today is hardly the starting point.
Outbreaks of disease at a site with nearly 600,000 individuals provide a significant development and excretion of environmental pollution. Several of the important contaminants in fish are robust in the marine environment and spread horizontally from cages to cages, from plant to plant, and to transport of fish. Therefore, wild salmon that resides in the same marine environment is also exposed to a contagion pressure from the aquaculture industry. In addition, as described, infected escaped fish constitute a challenge. Runaway farmed fish go up in rivers also outside areas of farming, and surveys have so far shown that there is higher odds for detecting infection of escaped fish than in wild fish. The Veterinary Institute has conducted studies in which the relationship between virus from farmed fish and wild salmon fish has been analyzed. These show that viruses are exchanged between wild fish and farmed fish.
Infection status of wild salmonids
Knowledge of the health of wild fish is generated through passive and active health monitoring, and through research. The Veterinary Institute takes care of the public's responsibility to resolve disease suspicion and inexplicable mortality in wild fish. Such clarifications constitute the passive part of the health surveillance and contribute both to increasing knowledge about the health and disease of wild fish, and to maintain healthy populations. Disease detection in wild fish is also an important contribution to the preparedness and monitoring of the interaction between infections in farmed and wild fish populations.
The active monitoring programs are carried out on behalf of the Norwegian Food Safety Authority. Traditionally, the results from these programs have provided an important evidence of the freedom or presence of specific infections. The prevalence of Gyrodactylus salaris has been monitored in this way over several years.
Monitored since 2012
Since 2012, the Institute of Marine Research and the Veterinary Institute has carried out health surveillance of wild anadrom salmon fish on behalf of the Norwegian Food Safety Authority. The monitoring program has mainly focused on viruses that are common and cause disease challenges in the aquaculture industry, but have only partially followed the same template as used for other surveillance programs. The reason for this is that repeated monitoring of agents, which one can not easily detect in wild fish, has no utility as long as you do not know why you are not detecting them.
In the period 2012-2014, the incidence of viruses giving ILA (ILAV), PD (SAV), IPN (IPNV), HSMB (PRV) and CMS (PMCV) was investigated. The Veterinary Institute had largely already carried out mapping of these viruses and thus had a basis for assessing the usefulness of the monitoring. The main findings of the Veterinary Institute's part of health monitoring are summarized in the table below.
Virus IPNV SAV ISAV PMCV PRV
Veterinary Institute's Health Monitoring
Number tested
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More to keep them busy. ::) ;D
In health surveillance, essentially PCR methodology is used to detect virus genetic material. This methodology gives a snapshot of infection status in the population. An important prerequisite for detecting viruses with this methodology is that virus RNA / DNA is present at the time the sample is taken. Infections with short duration will therefore often be challenging to capture. Short duration in this context is either that the fish gets rid of the virus by becoming immune or that the fish dies as a result of the developing disease. In other words, it is a prerequisite that infected fish survives until the sample is taken. The absence of virus-positive wild fish can therefore be caused by wild fish not infected (function of time and susceptibility to infection) that infected wild fish are not caught because the infection is short-lived or wild fish infected,
Thus, in the absence of virus-positive wild fish it becomes too easy to conclude that wild fish is not infected (of farmed fish). Furthermore, it would maintain the monitoring of the same agent based on the expectation that increased infection pressure will reflect in several virus-positive fish of little value. The Veterinary Institute therefore changed its health monitoring plan and has focused on generating new knowledge about wild fish and wildlife interaction, including investigating infectious tissue in freshwater, family surveys to detect infection, mapping the incidence of new agents, etc. The results may Read on the websites of the Norwegian Food Safety Authority, the Veterinary Institute and the Institute of Marine Research.
Complex interaction
As described, there is a major focus on virus diseases in the aquaculture industry and in research and monitoring in wild fish health. Viral diseases, however, are only one of several groups of infectious diseases, and it is important to make sure that there is a total load of infectious diseases in the aquaculture that poses a threat to the wild fish. It is also important to make sure that this influence is unlikely to occur in the form of outbreaks of mass deaths. Wild fish that are impaired by disease will disappear without drama because they are an easy exchange for different predators because they lose the fight for food or because illness interacts with other factors of influence. Probably there is a complex interaction where disease interacts with other factors and affects life history, productivity and reproductive capacity.
It is said that when someone recognizes a problem, someone can do something about it. It has taken decades to come where we are today in terms of knowledge about salmon lice and interaction wild-farming. We must acknowledge that research on the effects of other infectious diseases in fish farming today is hardly the starting point. Thus, it may take many years before we make real progress in this field of research. The major challenges lie in adapting and developing methods for studying wild fish health in general, the complex interaction and the factors that influence this.
Meanwhile, the shortage of knowledge will in itself pose a threat to wild salmonids.
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We are gathering strength, a clip of what Dave missed in Chilliwack and SS in Kamloops but they could be lurking around. We know what Dave looks like but SS hides behind SS, maybe one day he will reveal it himself. :-\ I am glad when this forum started Rod put a few of us with our names here. I am glad he did so as we can be held accountable to what we say.
https://youtu.be/OjSJFAbGdEk
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Very impressive. Looks like you washed your truck for the occasion.
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http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ottawa-denies-b-c-ministers-claims-about-fish-farm-complaint
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Very impressive. Looks like you washed your truck for the occasion.
Glad you liked it,the video that is, I will be posting more in the days ahead so you are updated. We are having a benefit concert for the those occupying the farms, Don't be like SS always unwilling to hear more about our mission to oust the farms from our oceans. Good music too and our famous t shirts. ;D
One day before the tackle sale.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-open-net-pen-salmon-farms-ending-in-norway-1.2185654
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https://www.surreynowleader.com/opinion/b-c-should-learn-from-norways-example/
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Good article Fb. The last paragraph fit's BC attitude to resource development perfectly.
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And now for something completely different....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-premier-appoints-top-deputy-to-review-integrity-of-fish-farm-testing-lab-1.4373076
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And now for something completely different....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-premier-appoints-top-deputy-to-review-integrity-of-fish-farm-testing-lab-1.4373076
Ha ha, yeah, we have seen this type of face saving before.
Poor Horgan ... backed into another time and money waster when there are far more important matters to be concerned about. Bet he had a few words for his Minister ;)
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Ha ha, yeah, we have seen this type of face saving before.
Poor Horgan ... backed into another time and money waster when there are far more important matters to be concerned about. Bet he had a few words for his Minister ;)
That s how i Feel about the Cohen report now. Should of spent the money on scientific studies and habitat.
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That s how i Feel about the Cohen report now. Should of spent the money on scientific studies and habitat.
Yup, said so at the time. Just imagine if that 30M had been spent on habitat restoration! The mind boggles at how many fish that could produce. The whole Cohen response was a knee jerk reaction from Ottawa, brought on by the media tactics of activists who hoped the salmon farming industry would be shown to be the "cause" of declining salmon stocks.
Many people might not know that some of this Cohen money and, not counting the many lawyers, nearly all the man power, came at the expense of curtailed DFO programs.
Such a waste of energy.
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http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/no-ill-feelings-towards-the-minister-b-c-fish-scientist-speaks-out
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Betcha Miller-Saunders is off Marty's Christmas card list ;)
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Recommendation #14 says:
Beginning immediately and continuing until at least September 30, 2020, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans should ensure that
■ the maximum duration of any licence issued under the Pacific Aquaculture Regulations for a net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) does not exceed one year;
■ DFO does not issue new licences for netpen salmon farms in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2); and
■ DFO does not permit increases in production at any existing net-pen salmon farm in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2).
Discovery Islands start just north of Campbell River (Cortes, Quadra) - the main migratory route for emerging salmon.
Recommendation 15:
The Department of Fisheries and Oceans should explicitly consider proximity to migrating Fraser River sockeye when siting salmon farms.
Recommendation 19:
On September 30, 2020, the minister of fisheries and oceans should prohibit net-pen salmon farming in the Discovery Islands (fish health sub-zone 3-2) unless he or she
is satisfied that such farms pose at most a minimal risk of serious harm to the health of migrating Fraser River sockeye salmon. The minister’s decision should summarize the
information relied on and include detailed reasons. The decision should be published on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ website.
If that isn't good enough for you - page 92:
the state of scientific research about sockeye–fish farm interactions is not sufficiently developed to rule out diseases and pathogens on salmon farms as contributing to the decline of Fraser River sockeye and posing future risks.
Fraser River sockeye face some likelihood of harm from disease and pathogens on salmon farms. However, I cannot quantify the likelihood of harm occurring. That requires further study.
Salmon farms along the sockeye migration route in the Discovery Islands have the potential to introduce exotic diseases and to exacerbate endemic diseases which can have a negative impact on Fraser River sockeye.
Disease can cause significant population declines, and, in some situations – for example, if a disease were to wipe out a vulnerable stock of Fraser River sockeye – such effects could be irreversible.
I therefore conclude that the potential harm posed by salmon farms to Fraser River sockeye salmon is serious or irreversible.
You forgot recommendation #3:
The Government of Canada should remove from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ mandate the promotion of salmon farming as an industry and farmed salmon as a product.
So it shows how you cherry picked through the report. It’s what fish farm critics generally do. Sort of missed a lot of findings and recommendations also. Cohen put those dates to allow for more research to be conducted following testimony from individuals like Dr. Korman. There are parts Recommendations #64 and #68 that are already underway. You might want to check them out and ask yourself if farm critics have a firm grasp on this already or whether more work is actually required. There was Also show note that companies like Marine Harvest already suggested moving their operations from these controversial routes.
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Thanks for this lets see how the PP gang deals with this, they seem to have answers for everything, especially those that have worked for FOC and still do.
It’s easy because you listen to Morton
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More to keep them busy. ::) ;D
In health surveillance, essentially PCR methodology is used to detect virus genetic material. This methodology gives a snapshot of infection status in the population. An important prerequisite for detecting viruses with this methodology is that virus RNA / DNA is present at the time the sample is taken. Infections with short duration will therefore often be challenging to capture. Short duration in this context is either that the fish gets rid of the virus by becoming immune or that the fish dies as a result of the developing disease. In other words, it is a prerequisite that infected fish survives until the sample is taken. The absence of virus-positive wild fish can therefore be caused by wild fish not infected (function of time and susceptibility to infection) that infected wild fish are not caught because the infection is short-lived or wild fish infected,
Thus, in the absence of virus-positive wild fish it becomes too easy to conclude that wild fish is not infected (of farmed fish). Furthermore, it would maintain the monitoring of the same agent based on the expectation that increased infection pressure will reflect in several virus-positive fish of little value. The Veterinary Institute therefore changed its health monitoring plan and has focused on generating new knowledge about wild fish and wildlife interaction, including investigating infectious tissue in freshwater, family surveys to detect infection, mapping the incidence of new agents, etc. The results may Read on the websites of the Norwegian Food Safety Authority, the Veterinary Institute and the Institute of Marine Research.
Complex interaction
As described, there is a major focus on virus diseases in the aquaculture industry and in research and monitoring in wild fish health. Viral diseases, however, are only one of several groups of infectious diseases, and it is important to make sure that there is a total load of infectious diseases in the aquaculture that poses a threat to the wild fish. It is also important to make sure that this influence is unlikely to occur in the form of outbreaks of mass deaths. Wild fish that are impaired by disease will disappear without drama because they are an easy exchange for different predators because they lose the fight for food or because illness interacts with other factors of influence. Probably there is a complex interaction where disease interacts with other factors and affects life history, productivity and reproductive capacity.
It is said that when someone recognizes a problem, someone can do something about it. It has taken decades to come where we are today in terms of knowledge about salmon lice and interaction wild-farming. We must acknowledge that research on the effects of other infectious diseases in fish farming today is hardly the starting point. Thus, it may take many years before we make real progress in this field of research. The major challenges lie in adapting and developing methods for studying wild fish health in general, the complex interaction and the factors that influence this.
Meanwhile, the shortage of knowledge will in itself pose a threat to wild salmonids.
Seeing as though you cut and pasted this from another site what do you think it means, Chris? When you read this what do you think the take home messages are? I see you posted this to “keep us busy” but when you read it there are some important messages for farm critics to take from this.
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-open-net-pen-salmon-farms-ending-in-norway-1.2185654
Moving salmon farms out of the ocean into closed containment will allow wild-salmon populations to rebound and continue to support cultures, economies and ecologies throughout the province as they have for millennia.
Based on what information? This comment appears to suggest that the main problem is known and that moving the industry to land based operations will create a plethora of wild salmon again. No mention by the author of the other significant challenges or factors wild salmon face, but that becomes standard commentary omission from fish farm critics.
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http://www.abbynews.com/opinion/b-c-views-myths-of-our-marine-environment/
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https://biv.com/article/2017/11/fish-out-ocean-water-dampen-aquaculture-enterprise/
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Tom Fletcher? An economist (of truth) Notice I didn't say bald faced liar.
http://northerninsights.blogspot.ca/2015/02/agenda-journalism.html
http://climate.uvic.ca/people/ewiebe/tom_fletcher.php
https://tidechange.ca/2017/10/17/grandpasmillennials-respond-black-press-trump-ee-ter/
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http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+dispute+findings+provincial+report+that+minimizes+risk+aquaculture+wild/11131293/story.html
And Dr. Miller smells a rotten salmon as well.....
http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/premier-appoints-deputy-minister-to-lead-probe-of-fish-farm-science
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Haha ... giving Chris a rest? ;)
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Haha ... giving Chris a rest? ;)
Van is in the shop for a few days.Besides, with retirement coming up, a man has to get a few hobbies going. ;D
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Haha ... giving Chris a rest? ;)
Buck said you bought a ticket, SS not so. Anyway we dedicate this song to the PAP gang, I know they will watch it as they dwell on every word I post. :D :D
Nova, I have a ticket for you if you can make it, also the FVSS tackle sale is on the next day and Dave will be there too I am sure unless he is hiding from us like SS.. ;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/uJv1uSpgWl8
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Why buy a ticket when you can educate us Chris? When and how has farmed salmon in B.C. And Washington harmed wild salmon? Besides the price per pound.
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Buck said you bought a ticket, SS not so. Anyway we dedicate this song to the PAP gang, I know they will watch it as they dwell on every word I post. :D :D
Nova, I have a ticket for you if you can make it, also the FVSS tackle sale is on the next day and Dave will be there too I am sure unless he is hiding from us like SS.. ;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/uJv1uSpgWl8
Drumming to the same beat. That’s the problem.
I dedicate this song to you Chris. Lol
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI
(Lest we Forget)
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here's another set of lyrics for Chris ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb2OweNMQvo
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https://www.facebook.com/events/755884594609591/
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here's another set of lyrics for Chris ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb2OweNMQvo
Just watched the ad. Down in the dumps are you as your team loses again. ;D ;D ;D
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Why buy a ticket when you can educate us Chris? When and how has farmed salmon in B.C. And Washington harmed wild salmon? Besides the price per pound.
not worth the time as everything we post you PAP. :-X
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not worth the time as everything we post you PAP. :-X
You might want to try posting facts for a change then. :)
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It looks like Doc Morton has lost touch of what is going on in her own country. I know Chris, this is outside of your back yard. :)
https://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/aquaculture-jobs-in-alaska-now-this-is-exciting/
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i will be there tomorrow. Nova please phone me, I have some exciting news to share..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/protesters-vow-to-continue-b-c-fish-farm-protest-amid-court-action-1.4399745
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Salmon Farms yes please!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz8vHvGUnyY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz8vHvGUnyY)
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you know bob. they are making leaps and bounds in PTSD treatment regarding psilocybin, maybe drop a gram or two and you might forget about giving morton 30 bucks.
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you know bob. they are making leaps and bounds in PTSD treatment regarding psilocybin, maybe drop a gram or two and you might forget about giving morton 30 bucks.
Shrooms eh? nice to see some humor on this subject ;D
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Shrooms eh? nice to see some humor on this subject ;D
Hope you travel to Vancouver to support the Fish Farmers today. ;D ;D ;D
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you know bob. they are making leaps and bounds in PTSD treatment regarding psilocybin, maybe drop a gram or two and you might forget about giving morton 30 bucks.
Perhaps you are willing to anwser the question of when has farmed salmon in BC, Washington, and now we can add Alaska, harmed wild salmon Banx? :)
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we went through this already bob. I posted links and it was in the 90's with sea lice. which is why the practices have changed so much.
man that PTSD is strong over $30.
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we went through this already bob. I posted links and it was in the 90's with sea lice. which is why the practices have changed so much.
man that PTSD is strong over $30.
Typical response, with a feeble attemt to belittle without showing facts to prove your feelings. Keep up the stand Banx. Its like the sealice myth is under the bed with the boogie man. I see nothing has changed for the AFs since Absolon's post on page 7 of this thread LOL. Like Dave, I do like your humor. :)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3012511/
http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/metro/lice+outbreak+shows+links+salmon+farming+report/11728714/story.html
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posted dec 1st 2015
....Because farm-source sea lice accounted for 98% of the variability
in wild salmon sea lice prevalence from 2002 to 2009 and
sea lice were sometimes common on farmed Atlantic salmon
during the 1990s, farm-source sea lice probably infested juvenile
pink salmon many years before they were first examined for sea
lice in 2001 (1). As evidence, we show that sea lice were abundant
on farm fish in 2000 (Fig. 1). Before 2000, farm fish sea lice were
usually not quantified, but infestations were common enough that
sea lice treatment options were investigated in the early 1990s
http://www.ecoserve.ie/projects/sealice/caligus3.pdf
Although noticeable effects of environmental factors such
as season and salinity affect farm lice levels, any natural patterns of lice variation were masked by considerable
variations in levels within and between farms caused by local conditions and farm management practices. Recycling of infection within farms is common but there is evidence that fallowing of farm sites between generations of stocks can greatly reduce lice levels.
The pattern of changes in salmonid populations was considered to be too complex to easily summarise but generally, it was considered that an overall problem in salmonid populations occurred mainly due to an increase in the post-smolt mortality.
There is no doubt that heavy lice infections are highly pathogenic both in farmed and wild fish. Heavy infections with juvenile stages of lice can stress fish but most of the gross pathology and mortality is caused by preadult and adult lice, particularly immediately following development of the lice to the pre-adult stage.
http://www.seaweb.org/resources/documents/reports_farmingsalmon.pdf
Similarly, sea lice, which previously had been rarely observed on wild salmon, now are
regularly found on wild salmon in Ireland, Scotland, and Norway. Heavy infestations of
sea lice appear to cause higher mortality of smolts at sea.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/338123.pdf
Sea lice have been reported to cause serious disease in many seawater netpen facilities
http://www.seaweb.org/resources/documents/reports_farmingsalmon.pdf
By 1995, Atlantic salmon that had escaped from salmon cages were reported in 18 rivers in British Columbia. Commercial fishermen in this part of the Pacific Ocean reported a tenfold increase in their catch of Atlantic salmon. In producing 32,000 tonnes of farmed salmon in 1995, B.C. salmon farmers used fish meal produced from 118,000 tonnes of fish from the Pacific Ocean off South America, generating as much sewage as a city of 500,000 people.
In a typical salmon farm, roughly one-third of moist feed falls through the netpen to the
water column and sea bottom. Another 20 percent of the food becomes feces. Altogether,
as much as 1,080 tonnes of waste ore generated in producing 1,000 tonnes of fish.
Four years after the first salmon farms appeared in New Brunswick in 1979, farmed
salmon escapees accounted for 5.5 percent of the salmon in the Magaguadavic River. By
1995, farmed salmon made up 90 percent of the salmon in this river. (not BC but sweet jesus thats impressive)
In the summer of 1997, 300,000 Atlantic salmon escaped from several net pens in Puget
Sound, when the nets were torn during a move to avoid an algal bloom.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/278452.pdf
While scientific certainty is not absolute, European research does indicate that sea lice
abundance can be associated with salmon farming. Given this evidence, combined with
the presence of sea lice on Broughton Archipelago pink salmon smolts, and the fact the
decline in numbers was limited to Broughton Archipelago fish, the Council believes that
sea lice were associated with the decline observed in the Broughton Archipelago. Where
there is a risk of serious or irreversible harm the precautionary approach calls for action
based on the best evidence available. In this Broughton Archipelago case, the absence of
any evidence of some other cause, than sea lice, justifies action.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1602048/#bib30
Lice frequently infest farm salmon, and many studies have linked planktonic lice and lice parasitizing wild salmonids with the presence of farms (Tully & Whelan 1993; Costelloe et al. 1996, 1998a,b; Todd et al. 1997; Mackenzie et al. 1998; Tully et al. 1999; Bjørn et al. 2001; Bjørn & Finstad 2002; Marshall 2003; Morton & Williams 2004; Morton et al. 2004; McKibben & Hay 2004; Penston et al. 2004; Carr & Whoriskey 2004). Sympatric wild salmonid populations may then be affected: farms have been implicated in the infestation and collapse of pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha) cohorts in Pacific Canada (PFRCC 2002; Morton & Williams 2004; Morton et al. 2004), wild sea trout (Salmo trutta) and Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) populations in Europe (McVicar 1997, 2004).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3012511/
Several studies have attempted to explain the impact of sea lice and salmon farming on pink salmon population decline, but these studies have been limited by lack of access to fish farm data (14–17). In one series of studies, juvenile pink salmon of unknown history were captured from the wild (2004–2007), separated by lice infestation status into field-based enclosures, and held for several weeks to assess differences in mortality (14, 18, 19). Results from these studies were used to support the conclusion that “recurrent louse infestations of wild juvenile pink salmon (Oncorhynchus gorbuscha), all associated with salmon farms, have depressed wild pink salmon populations and placed them on a trajectory toward rapid local extinction” (3). However, the field mortality studies were not able to differentiate whether sea lice were the cause of mortality or whether sea lice had preferentially attached to fish that were destined to die from some other cause. To overcome this deficiency, other research exposed juvenile pink salmon of known history to Pacific forms of L. salmonis under controlled laboratory conditions (20); results were used to estimate that sea lice killed no more than 4.5% of juvenile pink salmon in any given year from 2005 to 2008 (21). Conclusions from these studies remain controversial, in part because they depend on experimental results from confined wild fish. Pink salmon sometimes adapt poorly to confinement (22) and change their behavior when exposed to sea lice (23); therefore, experimental results might overestimate or underestimate mortality among lice-infested fish in the wild. To overcome limitations inherent in using experimental studies to estimate population outcomes, we use a combination of approaches common in medical science and mathematical modeling to analyze actual farm data in relation to wild salmon information.
http://www.zoology.ubc.ca/courses/bio416/gross_cjfas_1998.pdf
http://www.math.ualberta.ca/~mlewis/Publications%202008/Krkosek_FishSci.pdf
http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/resources/1320966463.pdf
there you go bobby, the industry got a check up and thats why it's so heavily regulated. are they doing it now, no, they are not. but they did and changed.
your rebuttal to that post was quite well researched and incredibly lengthy.
To make it easy, this link may answer all your concerns of the studies you posted Banx. :)
http://salmonfarmscience.com/library/
so there you have it bobby, they did some naughty things that effected wild fish while they were allowed to. then changed the way they do things because of regulations. now they so full of themselves that they claim nothing will ever happen.
mean while some pig is like i have the flu, and the cows are like, hey we're mad, and the chickens are all like hey i have the flu too...... and their farmers all thought it was roses.
also bob, you never did answer. But as a farmer, maybe you can explain how the lunar eclipse burst that pen in washington?
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You and the AFs keep bringing up the myths and dog science "presumtions" and I and others debunk it all Banxy. I think that makes us all a team Banxy. As a team member, I suggest you try the medication that you prescribe for others Banxy. LOL. I do like your humor. :)
https://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/2013/11/06/primary-factors-for-fraser-river-sockeye-salmon-decline-in-2009/
"“I am also satisfied that marine conditions in both the Strait of Georgia and Queen Charlotte Sound in 2007 were likely to be the primary factors responsible for the poor returns in 2009. Abnormally high freshwater discharge, warmer-than-usual sea surface temperatures, strong winds, and lower-than-normal salinity may have resulted in abnormally low phytoplankton and nitrate concentrations that could have led to poor zooplankton (food for sockeye) production.” (Volume 3, page 59)
Wow! “Primary factors”, you say Judge? That sure sounds like the “smoking gun”!
And then this zinger:
“…data presented during this Inquiry did not show that salmon farms were having a significant negative impact on Fraser River sockeye…” (Volume 3, page 24).
Holy crap!
Let’s summarize: No evidence suggests that salmon farms have any effect on Fraser River sockeye, and lack of food for salmon when they entered the ocean was likely the primary factor in the poor salmon return in 2009."
Also http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/news/metro/lice+outbreak+shows+links+salmon+farming+report/11728714/story.html
Btw Banxy, you still have not answered my question. When has farmed salmon in BC and Washington harmed wild salmon?
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http://marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/2017/bc-supreme-court-orders-protesters-to-leave-marine-harvest-workplace/
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http://marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/2017/bc-supreme-court-orders-protesters-to-leave-marine-harvest-workplace/
Was this what Chris was protesting about today? Wow, could have saved him a trip had he asked how this was going to go down :)
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bob, YOU haven't debunked anything. you, like morton, do not belong in lab coats :P......you asked for links for the 90's which was what I posted. which is when farms had an effect on wild salmon. it's in bold. you missed it three times now.
your entire rebuttal was a link to www.ilovesalmonfarms.com
since your posting the cohen report from 2009... not with any info from the 90's contradicting anything i posted, you are ackowledging the fact that farms were effecting various species within their immediate proximity prior to being heavily regulated.... which also falls in line with other industries when faced with regulations. auto industry, tobacco, mining, agriculture and land based farms, etc.
I share the same belief as cohen. which I have posted several times. around the 88-96 page mark. that farms are not the sole culprit. they are just sprinkles on the sunday so to speak.
do we need access to more fish protein? sure
are open net pens the way to do it? no
is it good that open net pens are heavily regulated? yes
are there worse things out there causing salmon populations to collapse? yes, of course.
are we smart enough to do this on land? yes
are farms the boogey man? no, but they are still scary.
are open net pens the key to future human survival? unlikely
simply bob, we can't insure the ocean.
Open net farms are physically small and the industry is also small enough that they can all be relocated. Every other species humans have farmed has had major issues with mutations and disease. every other one. salmon are no different because you think we are superfantastic at it here in BC.
Just because nothing hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't..... thats the main concern. It really is easy to point an uninformed finger. unfortunately now, I had to get that finger informed. I still think its a bad idea, a very bad idea.... the uncertanties are absolutely huge, and I feel the risk is incredibly high. it's such a gamble.
this is my final post in this thread, as nothing more needs to be said. I beat this horse to death, brought it back to life only to beat it to death again. there will be no trilogy.
anyways, I wish you well Bob. I really do, and hopefully between posts your getting out to wet a line.
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.
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forget it...
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Filmed this from Vancouver Court House yesterday.Mainstream Media had left so I got this exclusive interview. hold the comments on that statement. ;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/Bb8Bt7KWzek
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And more I filmed for the PAP gang to grind there teeth over. Things will be heating up soon stay tuned. ;D
https://youtu.be/ZAOdZ8RLlbM
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Only the beginning Dave my boy, lots more is
going to happened. I will have all the coverage up from yesterday soon. Of course you are in the dark ages as cannot see all the pictures not being on FB. ;D ;D ;D
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https://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/fair-comment/
This explains my thinking of your links after reading them a few times Banx. We must take into mind how all articals are written before we jump to conclusions.
"“Fair comment is a legal term for a common law defense in defamation cases (libel or slander)… In Canada, for something to constitute fair comment, the comment must be on a matter of public interest (excluding gossip), based on known and provable facts, must be an opinion that any person is capable of holding based on those facts, and with no actual malice underlying it. The cardinal test of whether a statement is fair comment is whether it is recognizable as an opinion rather than a statement of fact, and whether it could be drawn from the known facts.”
I think it is well worth reading the full fair comment page. :)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation
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https://www.facebook.com/events/625235821199917/ Nova the e maill you gave me did not work, here is the details.
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Our work is starting to pay off. https://www.newsdeeply.com/oceans/articles/2017/11/15/fish-out-of-water-interest-in-land-based-aquaculture-grows
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https://biv.com/article/2017/11/fish-out-ocean-water-dampen-aquaculture-enterprise/
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http://knkx.org/post/cooke-aquaculture-sued-over-net-pen-collapse
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http://knkx.org/post/cooke-aquaculture-sued-over-net-pen-collapse
That sounds nasty LOL. Look at the history. :) They could be coming after our sport fishing industry next.
https://www.salmonfishingnow.com/timeline-of-atlantic-salmon-on-north-americas-pacific-coast/
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That sounds nasty LOL. Look at the history. :) They could be coming after our sport fishing industry next.
https://www.salmonfishingnow.com/timeline-of-atlantic-salmon-on-north-americas-pacific-coast/
https://youtu.be/8_TKoZNEFlw
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https://youtu.be/8_TKoZNEFlw
That's it? No wonder you have been quiet about this ...
I gather the Chilliwack DFO Wild Salmon Policy meeting didn't go as well as you had hoped also. Not to worry Chris, you still have your dreams.
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That's it? No wonder you have been quiet about this ...
I gather the Chilliwack DFO Wild Salmon Policy meeting didn't go as well as you had hoped also. Not to worry Chris, you still have your dreams.
You need to come these events to learn more instead of wasting your time watching
your team loose, again. ;D
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https://www.mccollmagazineonline.com/it-takes-two-to-reconcile.html
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https://www.mccollmagazineonline.com/it-takes-two-to-reconcile.html
I bothers me how the media and activists use the phrase "first nations appose". At first glance and to any one who isn't thinking critically this phase comes across as if all first nations are united in an opinion or stance however the reality is in our language the plural form of first nation means more than one.
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Good article Bob. This paragraph says it all ...
"It is interesting to note that Alexandra Morton, an American, who benefits from American funding sources, is a lay-biologist who appears to have a particular mission coincidentally supportive of national interests of aquaculture in Alaska, which so happens to come at the expense of Canada's own Indigenous people seeking economic opportunities in the Broughton. Her subterfuge is deeply engrained and highly suspicious to some as a result, and what if it's entirely related to dismantling the potential legacy of economic opportunity in Canada's Pacific coast in favour of American investors in their thriving Alaskan aquaculture industry?"
Finally someone has connected the dots.
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Also the footnote on that link sounds direct enough for those that think going closed containment is the only way it should be done.
"As a footnote to this present foofaraw, Kuterra is a failed business enterprise too heavily burdened by debt to continue operation."
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Where is SS has he had his fins clipped by the government agencies he works for.
I told the biologist for FOC that deals with aquaculture about this tread at the meeting last week but did not mention anyone name or who they worked for of course.
When time permits must get some thing up about the meeting, too bad Dave could not find the time to attend so he could report too. :-\
Of course the bio was very pro FF in my opinion. :-X
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Of course the bio was very pro FF in my opinion. :-X
Good to see smart biologists in the Department!
Chris, fwiw, feel free to tell anyone you want how I feel about fish farming.
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Good to see smart biologists in the Department!
Chris, fwiw, feel free to tell anyone you want how I feel about fish farming.
You should be telling them yourself, in person.
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Good article Bob. This paragraph says it all ...
"It is interesting to note that Alexandra Morton, an American, who benefits from American funding sources, is a lay-biologist who appears to have a particular mission coincidentally supportive of national interests of aquaculture in Alaska, which so happens to come at the expense of Canada's own Indigenous people seeking economic opportunities in the Broughton. Her subterfuge is deeply engrained and highly suspicious to some as a result, and what if it's entirely related to dismantling the potential legacy of economic opportunity in Canada's Pacific coast in favour of American investors in their thriving Alaskan aquaculture industry?"
Finally someone has connected the dots.
I am not surprised at all the US is know for paying activists millions. Just look at BC LNG. It dragged on mean while a huge number of terminals got built in Washington state and Alaska. Same thing happening with pipelines ours are getting stalled meanwhile thousands of km or being laid south of the boarder.
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I am not surprised at all the US is know for paying activists millions. Just look at BC LNG. It dragged on mean while a huge number of terminals got built in Washington state and Alaska. Same thing happening with pipelines ours are getting stalled meanwhile thousands of km or being laid south of the boarder.
In all respects, if it was not for activists the planet would be in worse shape than it is.
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In all respects, if it was not for activists the planet would be in worse shape than it is.
I guess that depends is the activist is not just a not im my back yard sort of one. What does the planet care if a mine gets built in south america rather then in canada. At lest in canada there is regulations....
Fish farms are going to get built as long as there is demand for seafood. The question now is who? When and where? and how? regulations?
Respect what you do Chris! you are bring well needed awareness with your carivans
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I don't think there are any operating LNG plants in either Washington or Alaska states.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/broken-islands-fish-farm-debris-spill-1.4413240
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Not sure what she is talking about?
https://www.facebook.com/alexandra.morton.1671/videos/2109855015909715/ (https://www.facebook.com/alexandra.morton.1671/videos/2109855015909715/)
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Nor does she but thats normal for Almo ::)
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Not sure what she is talking about?
https://www.facebook.com/alexandra.morton.1671/videos/2109855015909715/ (https://www.facebook.com/alexandra.morton.1671/videos/2109855015909715/)
Not so much what’s she talking about than what she is leaving out. But of course she puts together a video that similar to Christian Children’s Fund.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/broken-islands-fish-farm-debris-spill-1.4413240
Dont leave out this industry on clean up even though it is not on Doc Mortons radar.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/baynes-sound-cleanup-1.4312275
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Dont leave out this industry on clean up even though it is not on Doc Mortons radar.
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/baynes-sound-cleanup-1.4312275
her hippy friends run that industry. Get to close to them and they will shoot at you. To many close calls fishing around Quartas or Quadra island. Go in the wrong bay and those hippies will gladly shoot at you. Oyster farms and pot is their game
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/11/15/BC-Supreme-Court-Orders-End-Fish-Farm-Occupation/
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In Merritt next up we are in SS's Country. ;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/LrHOBnczt3A
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/11/15/BC-Supreme-Court-Orders-End-Fish-Farm-Occupation/
https://www.mccollmagazineonline.com/it-takes-two-to-reconcile.html
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/11/15/BC-Supreme-Court-Orders-End-Fish-Farm-Occupation/
This is a week old. Try to keep up if you want to stay in the game ... ;)
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This is a week old. Try to keep up if you want to stay in the game ... ;)
Sorry if you had a list as long as mine you might understand, ;D ;D ;D lucky I am not 2 weeks behind. Get your stuff ready for the tackle sale and stop being a beak!!!! :D :D :D. See you at the tackle sale or a the benefit concert for the FF occupiers, you can see and hear them first hand, we are nearing a sell out but I will save one for you until noon, only $40 and if you are hard up I can help you out. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/update-head-of-b-c-laboratory-consulted-with-government-and-industry-vets-1.3690863#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=kcl06mD
Responses boys?
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-science-continues-to-show-b-c-salmon-farms-are-safe-1.23101758
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What a great night you missed Dave. https://youtu.be/PRL-uNGs65o
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http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-science-continues-to-show-b-c-salmon-farms-are-safe-1.23101758
Jeremy Dunn, head of the Fish Farmer's Association, what would you aspect him to write. Does not hold salt water. :-X ::) ??? :(
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Jeremy Dunn, head of the Fish Farmer's Association, what would you aspect him to write. Does not hold salt water. :-X ::) ??? :(
"The report says that while a level of concern is warranted, “there is currently no evidence that there is any impact from salmon farms to wild salmon.”
Seafood Watch ranked farmed Atlantic salmon raised in marine net pens as a “good alternative,” or yellow on its red-yellow-green consumer scale. B.C. is the only region in the world to have this distinction, and its farm-raised salmon is recommended to consumers by this program."
Back to you Chris. When has farmed salmon harmed wild salmon on the pacific coast? :)
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-science-continues-to-show-b-c-salmon-farms-are-safe-1.23101758
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"The report says that while a level of concern is warranted, “there is currently no evidence that there is any impact from salmon farms to wild salmon.”
Seafood Watch ranked farmed Atlantic salmon raised in marine net pens as a “good alternative,” or yellow on its red-yellow-green consumer scale. B.C. is the only region in the world to have this distinction, and its farm-raised salmon is recommended to consumers by this program."
Back to you Chris. When has farmed salmon harmed wild salmon on the pacific coast? :)
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-science-continues-to-show-b-c-salmon-farms-are-safe-1.23101758
I guess you missed this post.http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/update-head-of-b-c-laboratory-consulted-with-government-and-industry-vets-1.3690863#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=kcl06mD
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I guess you missed this post.http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/w5/update-head-of-b-c-laboratory-consulted-with-government-and-industry-vets-1.3690863#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=kcl06mD
“I diagnose inflammation in the heart and skeletal muscle when it occurs; however, I do not diagnose HSMI in these fish because the submitting veterinarians tell me that their fish do not have clinical signs consistent with HSMI. As a referral veterinarian I would need some very strong justification to diagnose a syndrome contrary to the information provided by my referring veterinarians.”
“… the aquaculture veterinarians said that they were not seeing a clinical pattern that was consistent with Norwegian HSMI (all the Atlantic salmon companies have Norwegian connections, so I assume that they are well aware of the clinical signs of HSMI. Therefore, we decided that what I was seeing was probably not the same as Norwegian HSMI.”
In the same e-mail he wrote, “The farm’s veterinarian told me that the fish did not have clinical signs consistent with the description of the European syndrome HSMI.”
So Chris. Where in the link you posted does it say Farmed salmon has had a direct link to harming wild salmon on the Pacific west coast?
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Another video I filmed at a very successful concert for the occupiers of the fish farms.https://youtu.be/Ebi9vyQouLQ
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Why is money being collected for these people when they have been ordered to vacate the site?
Who is administering the money collected? How will it be spent when the protesters are not allowed on site?
Were receipts issued to donors?
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This is an outrage and we should demand an audit.
Just to be fair, we should review the financials of fish farm companies.
Wait, they are all foreign companies that don't file financial reports in Canada.
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This is an outrage and we should demand an audit.
Just to be fair, we should review the financials of fish farm companies.
Wait, they are all foreign companies that don't file financial reports in Canada.
But all the employees of the farms file taxes ;)
Hey, the anti's like Chris are always talking about accountability in fish farm activities. I'm asking where the money collected goes, that's all.
Pretty sure I'm not the only curious reader.
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Why is money being collected for these people when they have been ordered to vacate the site?
Who is administering the money collected? How will it be spent when the protesters are not allowed on site?
Were receipts issued to donors?
Send me an e mail ASAP if you wish and I will send you the contact where you can ask all the questions of the treasure as I am not the one.
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But all the employees of the farms file taxes ;)
Hey, the anti's like Chris are always talking about accountability in fish farm activities. I'm asking where the money collected goes, that's all.
Pretty sure I'm not the only curious reader.
if they operate as Corporations I believe they have to be incorporated here & they would have to file with Revenue Canada. If not they'd pay more taxes. BTW all the shares would likely be owned by their foreign parent company. The parent company would have to report on foreign operations. Google International Financial Reporting Standards. Just checked and there is a 25% withholding tax regardless if they are incorporated here or not on all after tax source income or any distributions paid to any legal person outside of Canada.
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http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0188690
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http://www.timescolonist.com/life/islander/b-c-fish-farms-a-tangled-net-1.23111384
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http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/aboriginal-fish-farm-foes-press-for-talks-with-premier-1.23110988
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Seems like the info could be all at one stop :)
https://seawestnews.com/category/news/in-the-news/
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https://seawestnews.com/the-inconvenient-truth-about-salmon-farming-in-b-c/
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http://www.westerlynews.ca/opinion/b-c-views-untold-stories-of-b-c-salmon-farms/
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/sockeye-salmon-recommended-for-listing-under-species-at-risk-act/article37178682/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail%3A+Newsletters+%2F+E-Blasts+%2F+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links
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https://seawestnews.com/a-net-loss-for-canada/
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/2-republicans-seek-immediate-ban-on-atlantic-net-pens-too-and-faster/
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https://www.biv.com/article/2017/5/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks/
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Deniers won;t like this......
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-research-shows-wild-salmon-exposed-to-fish-farms-have-much-higher-rate-of-disease-1.4446839
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Deathnail!
Research Article
The effect of exposure to farmed salmon on piscine orthoreovirus infection and fitness in wild Pacific salmon in British Columbia, Canada
Alexandra Morton ,
Richard Routledge ,
Stacey Hrushowy ,
Molly Kibenge ,
Frederick Kibenge
[IMG]
Published: December 13, 2017
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0188793
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188793
Abstract
The disease Heart and Skeletal Muscle Inflammation (HSMI) is causing substantial economic losses to the Norwegian salmon farming industry where the causative agent, piscine orthoreovirus (PRV), is reportedly spreading from farmed to wild Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) with as yet undetermined impacts. To assess if PRV infection is epidemiologically linked between wild and farmed salmon in the eastern Pacific, wild Pacific salmon (Oncorhynchus sp.) from regions designated as high or low exposure to salmon farms and farmed Atlantic salmon reared in British Columbia (BC) were tested for PRV. The proportion of PRV infection in wild fish was related to exposure to salmon farms (p = 0.0097). PRV was detected in: 95% of farmed Atlantic salmon, 37–45% of wild salmon from regions highly exposed to salmon farms and 5% of wild salmon from the regions furthest from salmon farms. The proportion of PRV infection was also significantly lower (p = 0.0008) where wild salmon had been challenged by an arduous return migration into high-elevation spawning habitat. Inter-annual PRV infection declined in both wild and farmed salmon from 2012–2013 (p ≤ 0.002). These results suggest that PRV transfer is occurring from farmed Atlantic salmon to wild Pacific salmon, that infection in farmed salmon may be influencing infection rates in wild salmon, and that this may pose a risk of reduced fitness in wild salmon impacting their survival and reproduction.
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Deniers won;t like this......
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-research-shows-wild-salmon-exposed-to-fish-farms-have-much-higher-rate-of-disease-1.4446839
From the article:
The research is the first of its kind to conclude that large numbers of B.C's wild salmon are becoming infected with PRV through exposure to fish farms.
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From the article:
The research is the first of its kind to conclude that large numbers of B.C's wild salmon are becoming infected with PRV through exposure to fish farms.
Wait for it. Waaaiit Foorr iit.wait for it. Denial galore, followed by obfustication, with coming to a thread near you!
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Should be an interesting week!
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Deniers won;t like this......
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-research-shows-wild-salmon-exposed-to-fish-farms-have-much-higher-rate-of-disease-1.4446839
Full of Doc Morton speculation and presumptions with a big dash of left out information from studies by qualified biologists that have an education and actually work for a living. IMO of course :)
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Full of Doc Morton speculation and presumptions with a big dash of left out information from studies by qualified biologists that have an education and actually work for a living. IMO of course :)
Yes but unfortunately those qualified working educated biologists are getting paid by the Norwegians.
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Media is lovin it!
https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/391617/
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/BCSFA_MortonPRvPaper_Release_DEC14-2017.pdf
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/BCSFA_MortonPRvPaper_Release_DEC14-2017.pdf
Fisherbob bringing in the right hook nice one!
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How many farm critics here actually read the study? Or did most just default to the red meat media version? I think for most it was the latter. Shocker.
The BC Salmon Farmers press release makes some good points, but one just has to read the study to find out that the claims made are sketchy at best. First, it was a very poor sample size with very unequal representation. Look at the raw data provided to see where the samples were from within the Fraser watershed - those upstream and downstream of Hope. Most are downstream of Hope. Look at the data in the columns. Of course infection rate is greater in the lower regions if that’s where most of the samples are from. Within those catch areas the fish could have all been handled differently if caught by recreational anglers and First Nations. In order to make broad population inferences one should do a more extensive, structured surveillance of wild salmonids which the authors admitted was lacking in their study.
Second, the authors categorizing of “significant migratory challenges” is too vague and incomplete and doesn’t address WHAT THE ACTUAL ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS WERE AT THE TIME. Nowhere in the study do the authors put context to their findings by saying what the Fraser River conditions were during the sampling period in 2012 and 2013. Also, those conditions can change within the migration from month to month, from run timing group to run timing group. For instance, Early Stuart Sockeye can typically face some significant migratory challenges in some years through Hell’s Gate in June and July due to much much higher discharge following spring freshet. Early Summer to Summers Sockeye can experience higher water temperatures some years, but Late Summer Sockeye can avoid those late on in September and October.
In a nutshell, there’s variability. But what might be a major migratory difficulty one year might not be so much the next. Yes, places like Hell’s Gate and the other migratory bottlenecks can be difficult places for salmon migration, but it depends on what the river discharge and water temperatures are at the time. Pacific salmonids have water discharge and temperature thresholds where migration can be difficult, but not so much below those levels. Some years had very high water temperatures in the Fraser but that didn’t necessarily translate into major prespawn mortality. Instead, the authors make it black and white (i.e. challenged or not) which in reality isn’t what its really like.
Third, what are these PRV infected salmon relative to what actually escaped to the spawning grounds in 2012 and 2013 if we are looking at the adult samples. In 2013, some Fraser CUs that escaped to the spawning grounds did better than cycle year averages. Yet the authors claim that PRV infected salmon could be experiencing migratory difficulties due to bad hearts. Well the spawning ground escapements for many CUs don’t appear to corroborate those claims in both 2012 or 2013. Can’t take the number of samples they did and start making those claims - especially at the population level. Statistics are great but they should be ground truthed.
Lastly, HSMI has not been documented in wild salmon in BC or even in Norway. The authors even state:
However, HSMI has not been reported in wild or captive Pacific salmon.
How many of the samples in the study were examined for HSMI? Apparently, PRV is this very deadly virus to wild Pacific salmonids and no testing for the disease, HSMI. I know the answer why not and so do you.
Happy Holidays!
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Here is one of the latest information releases from DFO regarding fish farms in BC
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/dfo-report-risk-of-viral-transfer-to-wild-sockeye-from-b-c-fish-farms-is-low
As FWR seems to be losing readers, here is another forum for those wishing for continued discussion on BC salmon farms
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?forums/conservation-fishery-politics-and-management.38/
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http://marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/2017/b.c.-supreme-court-grants-injunction-to-marine-harvest/
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ah, common sense at work ..
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http://marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/2017/b.c.-supreme-court-grants-injunction-to-marine-harvest/
How will almo be able make her videos? her donations are going to be hurt
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In her own words.
http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/?p=849
Just so sad that Doc Morton has let down her followers once again :(
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So as an uneducated layman can I assume that the sockeye are infecting the farm fish?
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So as an uneducated layman can I assume that the sockeye are infecting the farm fish?
That's how it works. I believe herring also carry IHNv.
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So as an uneducated layman can I assume that the sockeye are infecting the farm fish?
That is how it happens considering adult Sockeye are natural carriers of IHNv, having immunity at that life stage; whereas, Atlantic Salmon have not developed the level of immunity and are therefore very vulnerable to IHNv (the virus) and IHN (the disease). When IHNv is confidently suspected on BC fish farms they be proactive and will cull their fish, before CFIA confirmation, to avoid risking it spreading to other farms. This is one of the reasons why IHNv from farmed fish to wild Sockeye is considered minimal risk.
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DAMN those resident fish! The nerve of them to carry a virus that kills a foreign species! The quicker they get wiped out the better! ::)
Merry Christmas!
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:)
https://protestingtheprotesters.wordpress.com/
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Looks like the AFF,s have sunk.
https://www.northislandgazette.com/news/judge-orders-salmon-farm-protesters-to-stay-away/
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Looks like the AFF,s have sunk.
https://www.northislandgazette.com/news/judge-orders-salmon-farm-protesters-to-stay-away/
One wonders who pocketed the money from the recent fundraiser held in Chilliwack to keep these activists disrupting salmon farm operations.
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One wonders who pocketed the money from the recent fundraiser held in Chilliwack to keep these activists disrupting salmon farm operations.
If you had followed this you will know the occupiers did and the battle is far from over my boy. ;D ;D ;D
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Ah, the lawbreakers got the money ... sounds typical ::)
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If you had followed this you will know the occupiers did and the battle is far from over my boy. ;D ;D ;D
Did they clean up their greasy sunk boat mess with it Chris? Or is that on the back of us taxpayers again? I think the Lawyers made the money and the pawns made very little, if any. This could be the AFF's new theme song. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZx_TokIHdI
https://www.northislandgazette.com/news/judge-orders-salmon-farm-protesters-to-stay-away/
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Ah, the lawbreakers got the money ... sounds typical ::)
Beek. :(
Another video I filmed of these brave Wild Salmon Warriors.https://youtu.be/TLyq866U1kw
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https://youtu.be/o3104gYQRT0
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http://business.financialpost.com/feature/eco-colonialism-rift-grows-between-indigenous-leaders-and-green-activists
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The writing is on the wall.....HOORAY! Cooke has one of, if not the worst records in the faux fish business.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/state-says-decision-to-terminate-port-angeles-atlantic-salmon-farm-is-final/
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Another dirty fish farm article: https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/01/10/DFO-Deadly-Farmed-Salmon-Disease-Downplay/
Interesting that Morty's lab gets direct donations from the fish farm industry:
$176,000 from three salmon aquaculture companies
No conflict there, right?
Morty and the industry are playing the semantics game.
His definition of a disease diagnosis requires "clinical signs" whereas Millar uses pathology (international standard).
It's like saying there is no cancer until you see signs of cancer, which is usually too late.
As a federal employee, I am ashamed of the behaviour of DFO as outlined in the article.
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Another dirty fish farm article: https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/01/10/DFO-Deadly-Farmed-Salmon-Disease-Downplay/
Interesting that Morty's lab gets direct donations from the fish farm industry:
$176,000 from three salmon aquaculture companies
No conflict there, right?
Morty and the industry are playing the semantics game.
His definition of a disease diagnosis requires "clinical signs" whereas Millar uses pathology (international standard).
It's like saying there is no cancer until you see signs of cancer, which is usually too late.
As a federal employee, I am ashamed of the behaviour of DFO as outlined in the article.
Perhaps you shouid understand what Dr. Marty and Dr. Miller-Saunders both specialize in first before being ashamed. One is a fish pathologist while the other is a molecular geneticist. The each look at these issues differently. A fish pathologist looks at the tissue level with microscopes while a molecular geneticist looks at the molecular level beyond what the eye can see - the genes, using technologies that are beyond most folks here including myself.
The study Miller was involved in followed one farm for a whole year and looked at live and dead farmed fish at different stages while the Abbotsford lab looked at fresh dead from more than one farm but not throughout the whole growing cycle. The Miller study had a much larger sample size from one farm. Using more novel techniques than traditional methods as well as a larger sample size from one farm over a whole year, Miller was able to find that the pathology was diagnostic of HSMI. Under traditional technology by looking at just fresh dead at a point in time it wasn’t so obvious, especially when most farmed fish were surviving to market size. What this research did theorize was that fish husbandry and the reduction of stress could be influencing the development of HSMI. It’s probably one reason why it wasn’t so obvious because there wasn’t the 20% loss seen elsewhere. It’s especially not very obvious when PRV is ubiquitous in farmed Atlantic salmon, but these fish do not necessarily develop HSMI just because they have PRV. Just because you have a virus doesn’t mean you develop a disease. Hear what Dr. Miller-Saunders says about that in the videos below.
Is the $176K “donations” from aquaculture companies? According to the article that seems to be your own interpretation, but Damien Gillis provides no clarification what that money was for. For all we know that could have been for diagnositic and testing services because the Animal Health Centre does testing for various clients throughout Canada. But I understand the angle crafted here by fish farm opponents because it makes it appear that the lab and its employees are engaged in corrupt and unethical activities. This ignores the fact that most if not all the employees there are members of professional organizations which can have strict standards on professional conduct - much different from some “independent biologists” or journalists/activists like Damien Gillis who can say whatever they want.
Damien Gillis likes to connect dots but he, like most activists, he selects the ones that make his case. Using the latest Morton and Routledge study as evidence is laughable because the data doesn’t show that PRV may reduce a wild salmon’s ability to undergo a “challenging upriver migration”. They could only hypothesize it, but if you look at the many adult Fraser Sockeye returns for 2012 and especially 2013 they don’t corroborate with major migratory difficulty across the board. They didn’t look at actual Fraser River conditions at the time and what fish they designated as “challenged” is highly questionable. Just because you catch a wild salmon in the ocean doesn’t mean that it’s final destination was where you captured it. Statisticians are not fisheries biologists.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=3557s&v=qfIGzDrTtJA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5EPsyEuKU
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I guess almo gets her funding from people that don’T have a vested interest in seing fish farms go.
Iyayyay
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In 2015, I was asked to be on a government science steering committee examining Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis Virus (or IHNV for short) from salmon farms and its risk to wild salmon.
Of course, I had concerns about being on a government-led committee, especially after the Cohen Inquiry into the Decline of Fraser Sockeye Salmon concluded that DFO may have a pro-salmon farming bias. Despite my reservations, I accepted the role, and the confidentiality of the position.
Now that the steering committee has published their final report, I’m free to tell you about my experiences.
The report concluded that the risk of IHNV from salmon farms was minimal, based on the industry’s virus management practices. Here’s the kicker. The details of the industry’s management practices that substantiate the conclusions were confidential, so we couldn’t review this information. When I asked to see the documents, a DFO scientist denied me access. This is contradictory to what a scientific peer-review should be.
That’s not all. At the peer-review meeting, on three separate occasions, I witnessed scientists who appeared uncomfortable in sharing their views on salmon farming issues and refrained. What kind of scientific peer-review is DFO running? One where secret industry information is used to support pro-industry conclusions? And where scientists don’t feel safe to speak freely and honestly about salmon farms?
After seeing firsthand how DFO produces its science, I have much skepticism about this report’s benign conclusions about IHNV. We don't know whether IHNV from salmon farms is harming wild fish, in part because the information can’t be reviewed.
This will all come to a head soon. DFO is proceeding with more of these flawed science reviews on other pathogens, despite my criticisms in the peer-review sessions and on CFAX radio and in the Times Colonist.
We need precautionary action from our government, not biased science that protects industry secrets. Wild salmon need to be defended from the diseases and parasites of fish farms.
You’ve already signed our Safe Passage petition, calling for the removal of fish farms from wild salmon migration routes, but can you help us get to 10,000 signatures by the end of January by sharing it with friends, family and co-workers?
We’ve heard rumours that DFO may begin consultations for new aquaculture legislation sometime early this year. We need to be ready with loads of engaged citizens, collectively calling for the protection of our wild salmon.
Can you share our Safe Passage petition with 10 friends and ask them to sign? Help us reach 10,000 signatures and together we’ll make big waves in 2018!
In solidarity,
Stan Proboszcz
PS. Click here to share the petition on Facebook and Twitter
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In 2015, I was asked to be on a government science steering committee examining Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis Virus (or IHNV for short) from salmon farms and its risk to wild salmon.
Of course, I had concerns about being on a government-led committee, especially after the Cohen Inquiry into the Decline of Fraser Sockeye Salmon concluded that DFO may have a pro-salmon farming bias. Despite my reservations, I accepted the role, and the confidentiality of the position.
Now that the steering committee has published their final report, I’m free to tell you about my experiences.
The report concluded that the risk of IHNV from salmon farms was minimal, based on the industry’s virus management practices. Here’s the kicker. The details of the industry’s management practices that substantiate the conclusions were confidential, so we couldn’t review this information. When I asked to see the documents, a DFO scientist denied me access. This is contradictory to what a scientific peer-review should be.
That’s not all. At the peer-review meeting, on three separate occasions, I witnessed scientists who appeared uncomfortable in sharing their views on salmon farming issues and refrained. What kind of scientific peer-review is DFO running? One where secret industry information is used to support pro-industry conclusions? And where scientists don’t feel safe to speak freely and honestly about salmon farms?
After seeing firsthand how DFO produces its science, I have much skepticism about this report’s benign conclusions about IHNV. We don't know whether IHNV from salmon farms is harming wild fish, in part because the information can’t be reviewed.
This will all come to a head soon. DFO is proceeding with more of these flawed science reviews on other pathogens, despite my criticisms in the peer-review sessions and on CFAX radio and in the Times Colonist.
We need precautionary action from our government, not biased science that protects industry secrets. Wild salmon need to be defended from the diseases and parasites of fish farms.
You’ve already signed our Safe Passage petition, calling for the removal of fish farms from wild salmon migration routes, but can you help us get to 10,000 signatures by the end of January by sharing it with friends, family and co-workers?
We’ve heard rumours that DFO may begin consultations for new aquaculture legislation sometime early this year. We need to be ready with loads of engaged citizens, collectively calling for the protection of our wild salmon.
Can you share our Safe Passage petition with 10 friends and ask them to sign? Help us reach 10,000 signatures and together we’ll make big waves in 2018!
In solidarity,
Stan Proboszcz
PS. Click here to share the petition on Facebook and Twitter
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In 2015, I was asked to be on a government science steering committee examining Infectious Hematopoietic Necrosis Virus (or IHNV for short) from salmon farms and its risk to wild salmon.
Of course, I had concerns about being on a government-led committee, especially after the Cohen Inquiry into the Decline of Fraser Sockeye Salmon concluded that DFO may have a pro-salmon farming bias. Despite my reservations, I accepted the role, and the confidentiality of the position.
Now that the steering committee has published their final report, I’m free to tell you about my experiences.
The report concluded that the risk of IHNV from salmon farms was minimal, based on the industry’s virus management practices. Here’s the kicker. The details of the industry’s management practices that substantiate the conclusions were confidential, so we couldn’t review this information. When I asked to see the documents, a DFO scientist denied me access. This is contradictory to what a scientific peer-review should be.
That’s not all. At the peer-review meeting, on three separate occasions, I witnessed scientists who appeared uncomfortable in sharing their views on salmon farming issues and refrained. What kind of scientific peer-review is DFO running? One where secret industry information is used to support pro-industry conclusions? And where scientists don’t feel safe to speak freely and honestly about salmon farms?
After seeing firsthand how DFO produces its science, I have much skepticism about this report’s benign conclusions about IHNV. We don't know whether IHNV from salmon farms is harming wild fish, in part because the information can’t be reviewed.
This will all come to a head soon. DFO is proceeding with more of these flawed science reviews on other pathogens, despite my criticisms in the peer-review sessions and on CFAX radio and in the Times Colonist.
We need precautionary action from our government, not biased science that protects industry secrets. Wild salmon need to be defended from the diseases and parasites of fish farms.
You’ve already signed our Safe Passage petition, calling for the removal of fish farms from wild salmon migration routes, but can you help us get to 10,000 signatures by the end of January by sharing it with friends, family and co-workers?
We’ve heard rumours that DFO may begin consultations for new aquaculture legislation sometime early this year. We need to be ready with loads of engaged citizens, collectively calling for the protection of our wild salmon.
Can you share our Safe Passage petition with 10 friends and ask them to sign? Help us reach 10,000 signatures and together we’ll make big waves in 2018!
In solidarity,
Stan Proboszcz
PS. Click here to share the petition on Facebook and Twitter
Well Mr. Proboszcz says he’s all about peer-reviewed science but fails to include all relevant information like the following...just for starters:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/SAR-AS/2017/2017_048-eng.pdf
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas-sccs/Publications/ResDocs-DocRech/2017/2017_072-eng.pdf
No big secrets. No big conspiracies. If you actually read the Health management plan document it says that the each company considers its standard operating procedures proprietary which could mean many things and not necessarily that they are keeping secrets because if you take time to read the document you will see that companies require a Salmonid Health Management Plan along with SOPs and are subjected to regular audits by DFO. The plans have required elements that each company must address in their plans. This doesn’t include the 3rd party certification that the companies are engaged in which are in addition to the required regulations - something Mr. Proboszcz doesn’t mention. Come to think of it Mr. Proboszcz fails to mention a lot of things. Strange considering he was invited to this government-led committee.
He doesn’t mention that the review covered much more than industry management practices. He also didn’t mention that all the companies here voluntarily vaccinate for pathogens like IHNv despite not being a requirement. As someone so dedicated to objective science, I’m surprised that Mr. Proboszcz didn’t take the opportunity to talk about these other very relevant aspects to the review, such as: oceanographic and environmental conditions; characterization of IHNV; the biology of Fraser Sockeye; and IHNv transfer risk assessment. Instead, he could help but put on the activist hat and slam the process and the department. He’s now free it seems to push for petitions to further his society’s agenda rather than a greater understanding of ALL aspects to this. He’s all for transparency apparently and loves to point fingers at the government and industry for not, but figures folks that sign the petition don’t need to know all the details.
Lastly, his observations of scientists being uncomfortable are purely his own opinion which can have his own biases considering who pays his salary and their objectives, so the bias game goes both ways.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/colwell-aquaculture-aquaculture-fish-farming-cooke-minister-colwell-1.4494969
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https://marinedebris.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/publications-files/Ghostfishing_DFG.pdf
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https://seawestnews.com/should-we-be-able-to-see-what-is-being-caught-in-our-oceans/
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https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-author-warns-of-paid-puppets-and-props-used-to-plug-resource-projects-in-canada/
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Cooke - AGAIN!
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/state-investigators-focus-on-nets-plugged-with-mussels-in-atlantic-salmon-net-pen-failure/
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https://www.facebook.com/alexandra.morton.1671/videos/2143994512495765/
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Interesting that Morty's lab gets direct donations from the fish farm industry:
$176,000 from three salmon aquaculture companies
.......
Morty and the industry are playing the semantics game.
His definition of a disease diagnosis requires "clinical signs" whereas Millar uses pathology (international standard).
It's like saying there is no cancer until you see signs of cancer, which is usually too late.
As a federal employee, I am ashamed of the behaviour of DFO as outlined in the article.
Hey EASYWATER,
I don't appreciate being implicated in accusations on this issue !!!
- I have not diagnosed any disease, nor have I commented on this thread for a long time.
As a "federal employee" I expect that you would take a lot more care in writing your replies.
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https://www.northislandgazette.com/news/kwakiutl-first-nation-host-fish-farm-dialogue/
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Wow a joint statement, things are moving in the right direction now. What will SS, Dave and FB have to say to this?
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0006-000128
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Wow a joint statement, things are moving in the right direction now. What will SS, Dave and FB have to say to this?
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0006-000128
I wonder if Horgan will still be in power when this is finally resolved? He has some tough decisions to make that will be unpopular with many people, this among them.
I am in favor of him going ahead with site C, and pushing for LNG, but am against his latest attempt to stop the Kinder-Morgan pipeline expansion in BC.
Lawyers will love it though ;)
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Wow a joint statement, things are moving in the right direction now. What will SS, Dave and FB have to say to this?
https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018FLNR0006-000128
I may be pessimistic but when i read this it certainly does not look good for recreational fishermen in the future having access to an ever dwindling salmon resource.
"“We have agreed to immediately embark on government-to-government discussions to address the issues and concerns about fish farms in the Nations’ traditional territories, based on free, prior and informed consent.
“Today’s meeting was the next step toward finding solutions together, which will include shared priorities and decision-making.
“We are prepared to do the necessary hard work to find a path forward together in the Broughton Archipelago in keeping with and enacting the principles of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.”"
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I filmed this in Vancouver at Canada Place yesterday at the meeting with the NDP. PAP gang will like this.https://youtu.be/ilP2UdYPFqE
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I filmed this in Vancouver at Canada Place yesterday at the meeting with the NDP. PAP gang will like this.https://youtu.be/ilP2UdYPFqE
Ignorance up until the part about residential schools. Ernest is a teacher? Shouldn’t be talking about things he has no idea about and instead talk about the stuff he does like his traditional language and the history of residential schools. Yep loved it, Chris.
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-industry-supports-talks-to-address-undrip-issues-in-bc/
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https://seawestnews.com/growing-fish-for-a-growing-world-the-future-of-salmon-aquaculture/
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-industry-supports-talks-to-address-undrip-issues-in-bc/
Of course they have no choice not to do so.
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Ignorance up until the part about residential schools. Ernest is a teacher? Shouldn’t be talking about things he has no idea about and instead talk about the stuff he does like his traditional language and the history of residential schools. Yep loved it, Chris.
Lots more videos to come for you to continue to PAP. :-X
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https://seawestnews.com/growing-fish-for-a-growing-world-the-future-of-salmon-aquaculture/
I gotta admit it sure looks like BC salmon farming industry is starting to look a bit antiquated.
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Wow
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From The Times Colonist , I like the last sentence.. "Later in the day, another coastal move was made.
Four cabinet ministers and four First Nations released a “statement on work in the Broughton Archipelago.” It came after a daylong meeting in Vancouver to discuss the issue of fish farms in the nations’ traditional territories.
The statement said: “The basis for this meeting was to jointly honour the implementation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and to confirm a commitment to a consent-based government-to-government process focused on the current fish-farm operations in the Broughton area, and the protection of wild salmon.
“We are prepared to do the necessary hard work to find a path forward together” by way of UNDRIP. The NDP government has committed to observe that declaration’s requirement for informed consent from First Nations on most development issues affecting their territories.
No industry representatives were invited.
The statement essentially confirms the threat Agriculture Minister Lana Popham issued to salmon farmers in October.
Popham was an ardent critic in Opposition and soon after she became a cabinet minister, she wrote to one firm warning that its routine restocking plan for one Broughton location could be problematic to its tenure, which could not be guaranteed.
The days of open-net pens on the coast appear limited. And the all-out war over control and access to the coast is about to begin.'
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From The Times Colonist , I like the last 2 sentences. "Later in the day, another coastal move was made.
Four cabinet ministers and four First Nations released a “statement on work in the Broughton Archipelago.” It came after a daylong meeting in Vancouver to discuss the issue of fish farms in the nations’ traditional territories.
The statement said: “The basis for this meeting was to jointly honour the implementation of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and to confirm a commitment to a consent-based government-to-government process focused on the current fish-farm operations in the Broughton area, and the protection of wild salmon.
“We are prepared to do the necessary hard work to find a path forward together” by way of UNDRIP. The NDP government has committed to observe that declaration’s requirement for informed consent from First Nations on most development issues affecting their territories.
No industry representatives were invited.
The statement essentially confirms the threat Agriculture Minister Lana Popham issued to salmon farmers in October.
Popham was an ardent critic in Opposition and soon after she became a cabinet minister, she wrote to one firm warning that its routine restocking plan for one Broughton location could be problematic to its tenure, which could not be guaranteed.
The days of open-net pens on the coast appear limited. And the all-out war over control and access to the coast is about to begin.'
[/quote]
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http://vancouversun.com/pmn/business-pmn/major-us-salmon-producer-fined-332k-for-farmed-fish-escape/wcm/ad5a7ae1-82c3-4c65-8425-6755bbaee0d9
Dirty fish in a dirty net = fine.
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Dirty Puppet? ^^^^^^^ hehehe
https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-author-warns-of-paid-puppets-and-props-used-to-plug-resource-projects-in-canada/
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Anyone who can defend Cooke is willfully blind, ignorant or outright FOS.
Here's a good list of reading to show what companies like Cooke do and how many times they got caught. And one for the I told you so file, especially SS about loss of lobster numbers near the Saddle Island operation. I wonder why.......
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cooke+aquaculture+fines+enviromental&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=fOxzWoXwEJi5-APemJigDQ
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A powerful message from Eddie Gardner at the rally at Canada Place on Monday that I filmed
.
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A powerful message from Eddie Gardner at the rally at Canada Place on Monday that I filmed
.
::)
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::)
https://youtu.be/0hqLXDeBHhw
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2018/02/minister_leblancannouncesindependentexpertpanelonaquaculturescie.html
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2018/02/minister_leblancannouncesindependentexpertpanelonaquaculturescie.html
Chris do you believe that this is a good thing?
I know about 30 people on a different forum that would say DFO being the Promoter and the Regulator of the fish farms industry they cannot be trusted.
They would point to the Silencing of DFO biologist Christy Miller, They would point to CFIA's discrediting of the Lab that found the first case of ISA virus. They would point out to the recently released report by dfo that stated that IHNV is treatable with vaccines and not an issue yet DFO based all its conclusions based on a "proprietary report" from the fish industry that they did not share with the independent panel.
I myself being Pro aquaculture and fish farms side with DFO.
You are anti fish farm, you attempt to discredit them when they don't come to the conclusions you want.
So why would you celebrate anything that DFO does?
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2018/02/minister_leblancannouncesindependentexpertpanelonaquaculturescie.html
The panel members to be appointed will be the key to this knee jerk but totally expected taxpayer expense. Being another pro fish farm guy, I look forward to following this.
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Chris do you believe that this is a good thing?
I know about 30 people on a different forum that would say DFO being the Promoter and the Regulator of the fish farms industry they cannot be trusted.
They would point to the Silencing of DFO biologist Christy Miller, They would point to CFIA's discrediting of the Lab that found the first case of ISA virus. They would point out to the recently released report by dfo that stated that IHNV is treatable with vaccines and not an issue yet DFO based all its conclusions based on a "proprietary report" from the fish industry that they did not share with the independent panel.
I myself being Pro aquaculture and fish farms side with DFO.
You are anti fish farm, you attempt to discredit them when they don't come to the conclusions you want.
So why would you celebrate anything that DFO does?
https://youtu.be/kQhNN6nKMc8
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https://youtu.be/kQhNN6nKMc8
::)
https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-author-warns-of-paid-puppets-and-props-used-to-plug-resource-projects-in-canada/
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fish-farm-collapse-cooke-aquaculture-report-washington-state-1.4516075
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fish-farm-collapse-cooke-aquaculture-report-washington-state-1.4516075
I find it very interesting that the sport fishery was never fined for polluting. ::)
https://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/7a850996-d21c-48c5-bb84-9e2049bdc680/History+of+Atlantic+Salmon+Introductions+in+the+Pacific.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url
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Anyone who can defend Cooke is willfully blind, ignorant or outright FOS.
Here's a good list of reading to show what companies like Cooke do and how many times they got caught. And one for the I told you so file, especially SS about loss of lobster numbers near the Saddle Island operation. I wonder why.......
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cooke+aquaculture+fines+enviromental&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=fOxzWoXwEJi5-APemJigDQ
::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_northwest_cod_fishery
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/sustainable-durable/fisheries-peches/lobster-homard-eng.htm
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https://youtu.be/GYuqguy2Dvs
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The end is beginning.https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washington-state-cancels-lease-for-atlantic-salmon-farm-off-cypress-island/
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Are we really celebrating another Canadian company getting kicked out of the USA.
This will just put Canada further behind in developing better sustainable aquaculture and technology.
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Are we really celebrating another Canadian company getting kicked out of the USA.
This will just put Canada further behind in developing better sustainable aquaculture and technology.
Just take a minute and look at Cooke's operations.If they represent Canadian values, then I'm from the moon.
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Just take a minute and look at Cooke's operations.If they represent Canadian values, then I'm from the moon.
What damage did Cooke do besides to its own equipment? Then think about the values of wild catch.
http://www.livingoceans.org/sites/default/files/bycatch_BC_Bottom_Trawl_Fishery_0.pdf
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Just take a minute and look at Cooke's operations.If they represent Canadian values, then I'm from the moon.
Let me know when they start banning US aquaculture operations. Wonder what will happen to the prices for the US players now that their booting out Cooke.
Also did Cooke not apply for permits before the release event so they could upgrade the pens and the USA government was sitting on them waiting to approve.
I think the tides have turned its only a matter of time now before we see more and more fish farms leave our coast but if you think that going to help wild fish your mistaken. All one has to look at is the yellow eye and Halibut Quota to release that we will fish them to extinction anyways. There is never enough fish
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What damage did Cooke do besides to its own equipment? Then think about the values of wild catch.
http://www.livingoceans.org/sites/default/files/bycatch_BC_Bottom_Trawl_Fishery_0.pdf
Let's start with releasing a foreign species to Washington waters. That's an undeniable faux pas.That many frankenfish alone competing for feed would have an impact.
This happened in area where my family lives.Another blooper.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/112300-cooke-aquaculture-slow-to-report-barge-sinking
Not to mention the area used to have an active lobster fishery- that's gone now. I wonder if there's any relation to this....
https://bangordailynews.com/2013/04/27/business/cooke-aquaculture-to-pay-490k-after-illegal-pesticides-kill-lobsters-in-canada/
and some more
http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/article189614154.html
there's a lot more, but you can do your own digging.
BTW - Cooke pays a total of 12.80 per hour to employees. For what it's worth, the operation plant in Blandford relies on temporary foreign workers because nobody else would be able to survive on that chump change. They rely on Russian and Filipino folks. How do I know this? Because that particular pland was started by my Great Uncle and Grandfather and run for a long time by my cousins. They paid the plant workers a living wage and treated them fairly.
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Let's start with releasing a foreign species to Washington waters. That's an undeniable faux pas.That many frankenfish alone competing for feed would have an impact
FYI just for starters. ::)
https://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/7a850996-d21c-48c5-bb84-9e2049bdc680/History+of+Atlantic+Salmon+Introductions+in+the+Pacific.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url
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FYI just for starters. ::)
https://www.cermaq.com/wps/wcm/connect/7a850996-d21c-48c5-bb84-9e2049bdc680/History+of+Atlantic+Salmon+Introductions+in+the+Pacific.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url
That many frankenfish alone competing for feed would have an impact.
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That many frankenfish alone competing for feed would have an impact.
Not so much me thinks :)
“A few fish had things like wood chips or mussel shells in their stomachs, but the vast majority had empty stomachs,” Michele Dunlop with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife said in an email.”
https://www.opb.org/news/article/atlantic-salmon-swim-far-and-wide-after-puget-sound-fish-farm-collapse/
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“But history has shown that Atlantic salmon don’t feed well in the Pacific and have never established spawning populations outside their natural range despite transplant programs around the world.
“There are Pacific salmon in Lake Ontario, which is home for Atlantic salmon and guess who is winning? The Pacific species,” said Tony Farrell, a professor in the Faculty of Land and Food Systems at the University of B.C. ”
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/millions-of-atlantic-salmon-introduced-to-b-c-streams-since-1905
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https://www.desmog.ca/2018/02/05/bloodwater-released-b-c-s-coastal-water-contains-deadly-fish-virus-government-tests-confirm
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https://www.desmog.ca/2018/02/05/bloodwater-released-b-c-s-coastal-water-contains-deadly-fish-virus-government-tests-confirm
Thanks Chris. It will be interesting to get the real news on this topic :)
http://leftexposed.org/2016/08/desmogblog/
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https://www.desmog.ca/2018/02/05/bloodwater-released-b-c-s-coastal-water-contains-deadly-fish-virus-government-tests-confirm
Good read Chris - I found this one there too.
https://www.desmog.ca/2018/02/02/fish-farm-lowballed-number-escaped-atlantic-salmon-misled-regulator-report
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https://news.ubc.ca/2018/02/06/viruses-lots-of-them-are-falling-from-the-sky/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8IdEoJIXes&feature=youtu.be
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8IdEoJIXes&feature=youtu.be
At first i was disappointed because there was no drums, but was delighted to hear him talk about moving fish farms on land.
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At first i was disappointed because there was no drums, but was delighted to hear him talk about moving fish farms on land.
lead the way and invest, thinking it can be done easily is free. :)
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
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lead the way and invest, thinking it can be done easily is free. :)
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/land-based-atlantic-salmon-farm-ordered-to-shut-down-as-buyer-sought
Preaching to the choir, I was delighted because it's better than his typical rhetoric.
Also how is a land based operation suppose to compete when their is cheaper ocean pens available. Do you go to the mall or do you buy it off amazon?
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Soon to be spreading North too.https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/washington-state-senate-oks-phasing-out-atlantic-salmon-net-pen-farming/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_left_1.1
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Cleaning up our populated back yard should come first.
https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/news/victoria-harbour-fraser-river-are-b-c-s-most-polluted-coastlines-study/
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Fisherbob,
unfortunately I don't think the truth matters, like it or not fish farms seem to be the new punching bag and if sockeye don't come back this year i can guarantee everyone will be pointing at fish farms weather that had anything to do with it or not.
It seems some refuse to think that climate change and other things like pollution are having an effect on our environment and our fish stocks. People are always looking for a quick easy fix and they are hoping that fish farms are that fix.
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Fisherbob,
unfortunately I don't think the truth matters, like it or not fish farms seem to be the new punching bag and if sockeye don't come back this year i can guarantee everyone will be pointing at fish farms weather that had anything to do with it or not.
It seems some refuse to think that climate change and other things like pollution are having an effect on our environment and our fish stocks. People are always looking for a quick easy fix and they are hoping that fish farms are that fix.
Having activists encouraging "the quick fix" on social media is helping this whole anti fish farming movement along very quickly. It will be up to the politicians, not scientists, if BC continues to be progressive and have fish farms.
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/why-do-salmon-farming-critics-hate-science-so-much/
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https://www.ktoo.org/2018/02/12/atlantic-salmon-grower-calls-effort-ban-fish-farms-puget-sound-foolishness/
“The family-owned Canadian company took over the Washington locations in 2016 after buying Seattle-based Icicle Seafoods. Cooke is now the only commercial-scale operator of Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters.”
Protectionist policies, easy to stop fish farms when your only effecting a foreign company. So typical of what happens to Canadian company’s in the USA.
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https://seawestnews.com/washington-lawmakers-must-vote-fish-farm-ban/
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https://seawestnews.com/black-soldier-fly-new-mission-salmon-farms/
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https://seawestnews.com/letter-from-top-us-seafood-scientists-about-salmon-farming/
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ah, common sense ...
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ah, common sense ...
Common sense says, Fish Farms Out. :P :-X
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https://www.ktoo.org/2018/02/12/atlantic-salmon-grower-calls-effort-ban-fish-farms-puget-sound-foolishness/
Protectionist policies, easy to stop fish farms when your only effecting a foreign company. So typical of what happens to Canadian company’s in the USA.
It must be because of the fabulous wages Cooke pays Canadians - $12.35/hr - wages that are so bad, they're bringing in people from the Philippines and Russia under the TFW because unless you're living with Mom and Dad or have a trust fund, you don't have a chance to get ahead. I wonder what family supporting wages were paid to American workers?
I'm 100 % patriotic all Canadian and support success to most Canadian business, but there's parameters.
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It must be because of the fabulous wages Cooke pays Canadians - $12.35/hr - wages that are so bad, they're bringing in people from the Philippines and Russia under the TFW because unless you're living with Mom and Dad or have a trust fund, you don't have a chance to get ahead. I wonder what family supporting wages were paid to American workers?
I'm 100 % patriotic all Canadian and support success to most Canadian business, but there's parameters.
Very well then,
But you know if this was a 100% American company that the situation would be different, When it shows up in headlines in Washington that a Canadian company is responsible and also owns all the fish farms that politically it's far easier to spin to get your desired results.
also if you don't think that Protein rich farm salmon helps poor people think again. Fish farms keep the price down and make it more available to those who don't otherwise have access to rich protean.
http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/how-greedy-mcdonalds-became-the-most-effective-poverty-fighter-in-the-country
Also
The future of fish farming
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinio...-commentary/future-fish-farming/#.WpWyFa7typo
Plenty of Fish on the Farm
Why Clean Energy Is Key for Next-Generation Aquaculture
https://thebreakthrough.org/index.php/issues/the-future-of-food/plenty-of-fish-on-the-farm
"Aquaculture is a crucial supplement to wild-capture harvests, and fish are more efficient at converting feed into protein than pigs or cows, so farmed fish generally has lower environmental impacts than meat."
It should also be noted that I have always been a proponent of land-based recirculating systems However this will only be possible though regulations not though draconian government knee jerk measures. I also believe the Canadian government should subsidize LBRS systems so the company's can remain competitive internationally.
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https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/science-not-emotion-needs-to-take-the-lead-on-fish-farming/
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/why-you-dont-deserve-the-attention-you-crave/
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Filmed this today at the rally. https://youtu.be/aWA4SGAWHzs
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From a “scientific standpoint”, as Suzuki likes to use loosely, he never mentions what else has changed in our oceans and climate as he speaks to the crowd. No mention of the warm water blob or southern plankton species (not as nutritious as northern species) off our coast. No mention of declining productivity elsewhere adjacent to BC. No salmon farms in Southeast Alaska, but the numbers and size of Chinook are declining as well as the fecundity of female Chinook. So, if Suzuki wants to get on his soap box and berate salmon aquaculture here and say that he’s talking from a scientific standpoint then don’t cherry pick because from a scientific standpoint there’s much more going on which is going to impact livelihoods dependant on wild salmon.
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Filmed this today at the rally. https://youtu.be/aWA4SGAWHzs
With the volume muted it was watchable ::) Always seems to be the same folks that attend these gatherings Chris, you need some new blood.
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From a “scientific standpoint”, as Suzuki likes to use loosely, he never mentions what else has changed in our oceans and climate as he speaks to the crowd. No mention of the warm water blob or southern plankton species (not as nutritious as northern species) off our coast. No mention of declining productivity elsewhere adjacent to BC. No salmon farms in Southeast Alaska, but the numbers and size of Chinook are declining as well as the fecundity of female Chinook. So, if Suzuki wants to get on his soap box and berate salmon aquaculture here and say that he’s talking from a scientific standpoint then don’t cherry pick because from a scientific standpoint there’s much more going on which is going to impact livelihoods dependant on wild salmon.
Thanks for watching , glad I posted it so we could hear from you again, I was worried what had happened to you. :P
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Breaking news. "Terrific news!!! Washington Senate just passed the ban on Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters!!! It was a roller coaster day but we did it!!!! BC next up!!!"
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Breaking news. "Terrific news!!! Washington Senate just passed the ban on Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters!!! It was a roller coaster day but we did it!!!! BC next up!!!"
You spend time protesting in the USA and you didn’t pick me up cherry cola how dare you.
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Breaking news. "Terrific news!!! Washington Senate just passed the ban on Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters!!! It was a roller coaster day but we did it!!!! BC next up!!!"
I just remembered SS was always writing how we should complain about the FF in Washington, I am sure he is happy now and will not have to write about that anymore.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/nova-scotia-infectious-salmon-anemia-1.4557629
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Breaking news. "Terrific news!!! Washington Senate just passed the ban on Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters!!! It was a roller coaster day but we did it!!!! BC next up!!!"
I guess that means BC's salmon farmers now have a larger market .... can you say expansion?? ;D
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I guess that means BC's salmon farmers now have a larger market .... can you say expansion?? ;D
The beginning of the end Dave, better sell your shares.lol
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The beginning of the end Dave, better sell your shares.lol
The fisheries minister said its up the the province of bc if they want to give out new leases or renew them.
How's the file going with the BC Government?
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Breaking news. "Terrific news!!! Washington Senate just passed the ban on Atlantic salmon net pens in Washington waters!!! It was a roller coaster day but we did it!!!! BC next up!!!"
Reads to me that Atlantic salmon farming is banned. Perhaps they will change over to farming Pacific salmon now and you will still have something to keep you busy Chris :)
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Reads to me that Atlantic salmon farming is banned. Perhaps they will start farming Pacific salmon now and you will still have something to take up your time Chris :)
Can you see the irony if that happens 8) and it wouldn't surprise me a bit ... face saving, no job losses, great solution to a politically driven agenda.
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To be continued.....
"the legislature intends to phase out nonnative finfish aquaculture in Washington's marine waters.".....
http://apps2.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=2957&Year=2018&BillNumber=2957&Year=2018#documentSection
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2017-18/Pdf/Amendments/House/2957%20AMH%20BLAK%20H4832.1.pdf
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Can you see the irony if that happens 8) and it wouldn't surprise me a bit ... face saving, no job losses, great solution to a politically driven agenda.
Just taking a guess that it would be a different story if a U.S. company like Icicle Seafoods did not sell the farms to Cooke in 2016 and had to deal with this. Looks like Cooke bought some crap that was not updated for many years. Doc Morton should have been on top of Icicle farming Atlantics from the start in Washington as she was in B.C. since they are in her own home country. Too busy campaigning for her home country benefits I guess. But then again, Icicle is also in the "Farmed wild Catch" Alaska fishery. We are well aware that there is "no" salmon farming going on up there in Alaska LOL.
As Chris says, that is outside our back yard. ::)
https://alaskasalmonranching.wordpress.com/
it is good to see Icicle advertising U.S. Washington Farmed Atlantic salmon still :)
http://www.icicleseafoods.com/products/Atlantic_Salmon/
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"Looks like Cooke bought some crap"
Nice way to talk about your fellow fish farmer Bawb. Its a race to the bottom for you guy's. :P
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Nice way to talk about your fellow fish farmer Bawb. Its a race to the bottom for you guy's. :P
That's where the fish are! 8)
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https://seawestnews.com/canada-reacts-washingtons-ban-atlantic-salmon-farming/
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I just remembered SS was always writing how we should complain about the FF in Washington, I am sure he is happy now and will not have to write about that anymore.
That was Bob not me. But I do agree that you fish farm critics complain a lot and miss the bigger picture while you are at it.
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one day people will realize that farm farms are the only one actually tackling the supply side of the equation.
Fish Farm critics like to portray that if fish farms are gone that suddenly the next day that salmon stocks would be back to normal and will be on our merry way.
They like to completely ignore all the facts about warming oceans, habitat loss and the other scientifically proven facts that face wild salmon.
That kind of message is harmful because were left ignoring the actual environmental factors causing wild stocks to plummet. Now the masses are buying the quick fix.
In the end we're going to be left with an ever growing demand for wild salmon, with pressure from all sectors to continue to lobby DFO to manage our stocks to zero.
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one day people will realize that farm farms are the only one actually tackling the supply side of the equation.
Fish Farm critics like to portray that if fish farms are gone that suddenly the next day that salmon stocks would be back to normal and will be on our merry way.
They like to completely ignore all the facts about warming oceans, habitat loss and the other scientifically proven facts that face wild salmon.
That kind of message is harmful because were left ignoring the actual environmental factors causing wild stocks to plummet. Now the masses are buying the quick fix.
In the end we're going to be left with an ever growing demand for wild salmon, with pressure from all sectors to continue to lobby DFO to manage our stocks to zero.
The solution, move the farms onto land, so many miss this solution to the problem.
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The solution, move the farms onto land, so many miss this solution to the problem.
If you actually followed this issue with your head instead of your heart you would know land based salmon farms are not yet economically viable on a comparable scale as open net pens. . The Namgis experiment proved that.
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The solution, move the farms onto land, so many miss this solution to the problem.
Agreed. Everything has a cost and money is just one type of cost. If land-based pens aren't economically viable then it begs the question: what are the non-monetary costs of keeping them in the ocean? We're effectively subsidizing fish farming businesses at the expense of the health of our local waters. Get them on to dry land and I'm on board.
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‘Land based farms in Canada years away from being profitable’
[/i]http://salmonbusiness.com/land-based-farms-in-canada-years-away-from-being-profitable/
"While Kuterra is not yet profitable, Hobson said it is breaking even."
"Namgis Chief Don Svanvik said the project just needs to scale up to become profitable. “If the farm is even twice the size it is now, we’d be making money,” Svanvik said."
“We sell all of our coho everywhere outside of B.C.,” said Don Reed of Willowfield Enterprises, which owns West Creek Aquaculture. “No one in B.C. will buy our fish because it’s farmed. Our inability to sell our land-based salmon is directly related to the campaign against ocean farmed salmon.”
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I have been a big propionate on land based fish farms unfortunately from everything i've read land based fish farms are not economically viable in BC and probably will never be without government subsidies.
you need cheap land, cheap electricity, moderate climate, cheap labour
http://www.timescolonist.com/life/islander/are-land-based-fish-farms-a-financially-viable-option-1.23111387
Land based fish farms are coming and I support them. However I have yet to be show scientist proof that they creating harm or more harm than any other user group to our pacific salmon.
I can however quantify the harm that recreation fishers, first nations and commercial harvest is doing. Case in point look at the Thompson steelhead, its madness
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‘Land based farms in Canada years away from being profitable’
[/i]http://salmonbusiness.com/land-based-farms-in-canada-years-away-from-being-profitable/
"While Kuterra is not yet profitable, Hobson said it is breaking even."
It's operating costs are breaking even, Its initial capital cost of $4.5 million is yet to be recouped, they would not be covering the interest payments on it, the land was free and there's no property taxes. It also does not take into consideration deprecation of the assets.
http://www.kuterra.com/files/6315/0845/2477/17_10_19_-_Kuterra_update_statement.pdf
its close but not there yet and Vancouver area or vancouver island is definitely not the place to do a land based fish farm.
here is potentially a better example of land based fish farms
http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1547322-huge-inland-salmon-farm-planned-for-maine-where-cooke-now-dominates
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I have been a big propionate on land based fish farms unfortunately from everything i've read land based fish farms are not economically viable in BC and probably will never be without government subsidies.
you need cheap land, cheap electricity, moderate climate, cheap labour
It looks like they have the cheap electricity taken care of.
https://renewableops.brookfield.com/en/presence/north-america/recreation-and-safety/kokish-river-hydro
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https://www.workingcoastbc.org/voices_of_bcs_salmon_farming
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‘Land based farms in Canada years away from being profitable’
[/i]http://salmonbusiness.com/land-based-farms-in-canada-years-away-from-being-profitable/
"While Kuterra is not yet profitable, Hobson said it is breaking even."
"Namgis Chief Don Svanvik said the project just needs to scale up to become profitable. “If the farm is even twice the size it is now, we’d be making money,” Svanvik said."
Twice the size would equal twice the loans, which I would think only brings twice breaking even. How about putting twice the amount of fish in the tanks they have? ;D
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https://thetyee.ca/Video/2018/03/02/Science-Politics-Fish-Farms-Virus/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=050318
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Chris,
Maybe you can apply for funding now from Almo she looks like shes got some serious cash flowing in.
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https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/opinion/salmon-farm-smear-campaign-sinks/
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"“Does the governor want to be known for holding a Canadian company to a different standard than that which his predecessors applied to US-owned companies who actually experienced larger fish escapes in the past?”"
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2018/03/05/lobby-group-calls-on-washington-governor-to-veto-bill-ending-salmon-farming-in-state/
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A little history of Cooke buying out Isicle.
https://thefishsite.com/articles/last-gasp-attempt-to-prevent-washington-salmon-farm-ban
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Chris,
Maybe you can apply for funding now from Almo she looks like shes got some serious cash flowing in.
Thanks for the idea but all my work is volunteer as it has been since I got involved with this issue.
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A little history of Cooke buying out Isicle.
https://thefishsite.com/articles/last-gasp-attempt-to-prevent-washington-salmon-farm-ban
Cooke also invested in state-of-the-art technology and net-pen infrastructure to ensure the long-term viability of the company and the economic benefits it provides
Blah de blah for Cooke those nets were really state of the art.
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I've been reading about this topic for a long time now and my conclusion is that fish farms are detrimental to the health of our wild salmon stocks. Years ago I saw a video, I believe it was 'calling from the coast' showing migrating smolts passing fish farms in the Discovery Passage/Broughton Archipelago literally infested with sea lice. Yes sea lice are naturally occurring in the wild. But thousands of Atlantic salmon in a pen is not a natural occurrence. That video convinced me that fish farms do impact the wild stocks.
PRV virus is not harmful? I've never heard of a helpful or harmless virus.
That recent news report of a discharge of some red looking effluent from a fish farm was found to be not so harmless as the salmon farm industry says.
Yes, there may be a place for fish farms in BC but too many in one area is not prudent for the environment. Lets hope the politicians and scientists make the right calls and decisions.
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Chris can you enlighten him about the sea lice isssue in discovery passage. What does almo refer to
It again as?
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What's this? A tiny admission that there might be something wrong?
"the very low risk posed to native salmon,”
Although it's lukewarm at best, at least it's a tiny crack.
The part that cracks me up is the wages they say "support families". They pay peanuts to their employees and drive them hard.
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I've been reading about this topic for a long time now and my conclusion is that fish farms are detrimental to the health of our wild salmon stocks. Years ago I saw a video, I believe it was 'calling from the coast' showing migrating smolts passing fish farms in the Discovery Passage/Broughton Archipelago literally infested with sea lice. Yes sea lice are naturally occurring in the wild. But thousands of Atlantic salmon in a pen is not a natural occurrence. That video convinced me that fish farms do impact the wild stocks.
PRV virus is not harmful? I've never heard of a helpful or harmless virus.
That recent news report of a discharge of some red looking effluent from a fish farm was found to be not so harmless as the salmon farm industry says.
Yes, there may be a place for fish farms in BC but too many in one area is not prudent for the environment. Lets hope the politicians and scientists make the right calls and decisions.
Do you have any scientific information on when and where salmon farming has harmed wild salmon in BC or Washington?
http://www.vancouversun.com/lice+outbreak+shows+links+salmon+farming+report/11728714/story.html
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/another-lousy-sea-lice-study
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/create-wild-salmon-secretariat-bc-green-mla-proposes-1.4564138
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I have not been able to find that video on sea lice and migrating smolts. But I will keep searching.
It depicted small salmon netted adjacent to salmon farm nets literally covered with lice. They were not healthy looking fish. It made a believer in me that fish farms do impact wild salmon stocks.
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I have not been able to find that video on sea lice and migrating smolts. But I will keep searching.
It depicted small salmon netted adjacent to salmon farm nets literally covered with lice. They were not healthy looking fish. It made a believer in me that fish farms do impact wild salmon stocks.
You find it anymore because Almo calls it her biggest blunder. She took all the footage and then claimed that pink stocks in the area would go extinct. 4 years later the area had its biggest return of pinks salmon ever.
She then claimed it’s because salmon farms started treating for sea lice thanks to her pictures and videos.
https://biv.com/article/2017/05/whats-destabilizing-bcs-wild-salmon-stocks
"“The louse-induced mortality of pink salmon is commonly over 80% and exceeds previous fishing mortality,” the study, co-authored by Martin Krkošek and Alexandra Morton, concluded. “If outbreaks continue, then local extinction is certain, and a 99% collapse in pink salmon population abundance is expected in four salmon generations.”"
"And in 2010, the Cohen Commission heard testimony that sea lice and disease transmission from fish farms might have contributed to the 2009 collapse of Fraser River sockeye.
But wild pink salmon stocks in the Broughton Archipelago didn’t collapse – they surged dramatically in 2014. And in 2010, Fraser River sockeye made a stunning comeback, with a return of 28 million fish, followed four years later with a return of 19 million."
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/create-wild-salmon-secretariat-bc-green-mla-proposes-1.4564138
Agreed the Provence has total dropped the ball on steelhead.
"Currently, responsibility for salmon falls between 6 provincial ministries and 1 federal department"
6 provincial ministries that the definition of passing the buck.
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I have not been able to find that video on sea lice and migrating smolts. But I will keep searching.
It depicted small salmon netted adjacent to salmon farm nets literally covered with lice. They were not healthy looking fish. It made a believer in me that fish farms do impact wild salmon stocks.
Was it around this time by chance?
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/alexandra-morton-biologists-gone-bad
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http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2018/03/05/first-nation-chief-urges-b-c-feds-to-follow-phase-out-fish-farms.html
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Chris when salmon farms are gone
What kind of increase returns can we start to expect? 5% 10%
AKA can you provide me with the current damage they are currently doing?
or is all this just wishful thinking?
I just want to know so I have a metric to compare to when they are gone
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http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2018/03/05/first-nation-chief-urges-b-c-feds-to-follow-phase-out-fish-farms.html
It shows how poorly the writer researched this when you see a mistake in the picture before you even read the article.
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Chris when salmon farms are gone
What kind of increase returns can we start to expect? 5% 10%
AKA can you provide me with the current damage they are currently doing?
or is all this just wishful thinking?
I just want to know so I have a metric to compare to when they are gone
As you know fish farms are just part of the problem and I know you also know the other factors that have caused the decline the last number of years, we are all to blame as well.
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That’s for sure we all need to do our part in helping salmon and steelhead recover.
Chris with the removal of fish farms do u support giving the commercial(including economic aboriginal fisheries) sector a larger portion of the pie? so that the avg Canadian that does not fish will have access to wild salmon?
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It shows how poorly the writer researched this when you see a mistake in the picture before you even read the article.
Looks like the bear has an Atlantic in it's mouth. ;D
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Looks like the bear has an Atlantic in it's mouth. ;D
You need a fish id course ...
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Their are some Southern Resident Killer Whales that are definitely not happy with that bear.
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That’s for sure we all need to do our part in helping salmon and steelhead recover.
Chris with the removal of fish farms do u support giving the commercial(including economic aboriginal fisheries) sector a larger portion of the pie? so that the avg Canadian that does not fish will have access to wild salmon?
I bet that would be great news for the Alaska salmon farmers.
http://salmonbusiness.com/wild-alaskan-salmon-largely-farmed-report/
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https://www.dnr.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/PRV%20whitepaper%20revised%20Sept%202017.pdf?3c0h5&b2f0s02j4i
Prepared By
The Pacific Northwest Fish Health Protection Committee
By
T.R. Meyers
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
Juneau Fish Pathology Laboratory
Summary Conclusion Based on Available Data: The ubiquitous nature of piscine orthoreovirus (PRV), its apparent historic presence in wild Pacific salmonid stocks in the Pacific Northwest and the lack of clear association with disease in Pacific
salmonids suggest the virus poses a low risk to wild species of Pacific salmonids.
Why PRV in the PNW is of low risk regarding HSMI in wild Pacific Salmonids
1. The disease “heart and skeletal muscle inflammation” (HSMI) has not been reported in wild
salmon populations in Norway or elsewhere and appears to only be a threat to farmed fish
2. While PRV causes HSMI in farmed Norwegian Atlantic salmon, high levels of PRV genetic
material have been detected in asymptomatic wild and cultured salmonids with no evidence of
HSMI disease
3. Histopathological lesions of HSMI were recently described as statistically correlated with the
presence of PRV at one Atlantic salmon farm in British Columbia, Canada (BC) while other
studies have detected the presence of PRV genetic material in wild and cultured Chinook, coho
and pink salmon and steelhead trout from Washington State, BC and Alaska where years of
surveillance have reported no presence of HSMI
4. Molecular testing of archived fish tissues in BC has shown that PRV was present in
asymptomatic wild and farmed Pacific salmon since 1987 and may have been present as early as
1977 before Atlantic salmon were imported for aquaculture
5. HSMI has not been reported in Pacific salmon or steelhead in North America to date
6. Laboratory studies with Chinook and sockeye salmon have demonstrated that PRV is infectious
and will persist for quite some time but does not cause fish mortality, HSMI, or any other
apparent disease
7. Development of HSMI and HSMI-like diseases of farmed salmonids (Atlantic and coho
salmon; rainbow trout) infected by PRV may be a result of different viral strains, host specific
antiviral responses and environmental stressors that do not appear to be present or active for
indigenous salmon on the Pacific Coast
8. The presence of PRV genetic material in Pacific salmon tissues is not sufficient evidence
for HSMI disease
The PRV strain present in indigenous Pacific salmon in the PNW, historically and experimentally, appears to be relatively benign and unable to produce significant disease or HSMI in native salmonids.
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But Almo says this is a disaster waiting to happen ... how could Alaskan, Washington State and Canadian scientists get this wrong?
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https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/mobile/b-c-first-nation-in-federal-court-in-bid-to-halt-fish-farm-restocking-1.3841546
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https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/mobile/b-c-first-nation-in-federal-court-in-bid-to-halt-fish-farm-restocking-1.3841546
Did you read what wildmanyeah posted just above yours? I think your'e dreaming if you think the Namgis will win this.
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But Almo says this is a disaster waiting to happen ... how could Alaskan, Washington State and Canadian scientists get this wrong?
Looks like not much has changed with her over the years.
http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/junk-science-week-this-science-is-fishy
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Looks like not much has changed with her over the years.
http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/junk-science-week-this-science-is-fishy
That looks like information from a source you can trust:
https://www.desmog.ca/2015/02/06/climate-scientists-andrew-weaver-wins-50-000-defamation-suit-against-national-post-terence-Corcoran
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That looks like information from a source you can trust:
https://www.desmog.ca/2015/02/06/climate-scientists-andrew-weaver-wins-50-000-defamation-suit-against-national-post-terence-Corcoran
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/salmon-farming-company-wins-defamation-lawsuit-1.1302306
As if fish farm critics are any scource of information ::)
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Did you read what wildmanyeah posted just above yours? I think your'e dreaming if you think the Namgis will win this.
http://marineharvest.ca/about/news-and-media/2018/namgis-first-nation-application/
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Wow,
The First Nations previously accepted thoes smolts for their land base fish farms before from marine harvest.
Something stinks here
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https://www.desmog.ca/2018/03/14/b-c-about-become-last-place-west-coast-allow-open-net-fish-farms
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Wow,
The First Nations previously accepted thoes smolts for their land base fish farms before from marine harvest.
Something stinks here
Yuppers, 23,000 to start with.
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/namgis-first-nation-opens-land-based-salmon-farm-1.94597
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https://www.desmog.ca/2018/03/14/b-c-about-become-last-place-west-coast-allow-open-net-fish-farms
It “may” be if Alaska stops salmon farming lol
http://salmonbusiness.com/wild-alaskan-salmon-largely-farmed-report/
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Yuppers, 23,000 to start with.
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/namgis-first-nation-opens-land-based-salmon-farm-1.94597
So, these Marine Harvest smolts were fine for the ‘Namgis project at start up but when the Kuterra land based salmon farm couldn’t make a go of it without further outside funding, the same smolts are now diseased and should not go into net pens? What a crock.
Someone is paying off someone.
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It “may” be if Alaska stops salmon farming lol
http://salmonbusiness.com/wild-alaskan-salmon-largely-farmed-report/
You guys get so hung up on Alaska "ranching" - there is no "ranching" of Atlantic salmon.
Here's a description from one of your own rags: http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/what-is-salmon-ranching
What is Salmon Ranching?
Salmon ranching involves the release of hatchery raised salmon into the wild. Similar to salmon farming, eggs are artificially hatched and grown in a freshwater hatchery.
When ready, the young salmon are moved to saltwater net pens where they are fed food pellets. When these hatchery-raised fish reach a size large enough to allow them to compete with wild fish, they are discharged from their pens and swim freely into the ocean to compete with other fish for food – this is “ranching”.
They remain in the ocean for anywhere from two to five years, depending on what species of salmon they are, at which time they return to the area where they were held in cages during the earlier stage of their lives.
When these ranched salmon return, they are caught by both commercial fishers and sports salmon enthusiasts alike. Ranched salmon may also be referred to as “wild-caught” salmon.
The link I previously posted outlined that the US is going to put significant pressure on the BC government to get rid of salmon farms as the disease and parasites affect all young salmon heading north including those from the US.
When asked if the B.C. government is considering relocating farmed fish operations from the Broughton Archipelago to alternate locations, the department of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development provided a statement saying, “the province is concerned about protecting wild salmon and the migratory routes that they use and is interested in moving to closed containment where feasible.”
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“the province is concerned about protecting wild salmon and the migratory routes that they use and is interested in moving to closed containment where feasible.”
We all care about wild salmon. My question to you Easywater is where do you think “feasible” is?
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How do you think Washington State is going to put pressure on BC to stop salmon farming? Their own people say what happens in BC is not their concern.
I really think Washington State will simply change their rules to allow farming of Pacifics ... face saving, job saving and vote getting.
But what a mistake that may be.
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Alaska Salmon Ranching involves raising salmon in open ocean pens to a certain age then releasing them
Unlike our hatcheries where wild salmon actually have a higher survival rate then our hatchery's.
In alaska because their raise and feed them to an older age they are able to outcompete wild salmon. Yes in BC we have a few Coho and Chinook net pens its no where even close to what Alaska has and we certainly are not doing it with pink salmon. '
So at what age does a salmon have to be in a net pen before it turns from ranching to farming????????
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Alaska Salmon Ranching involves raising salmon in open ocean pens to a certain age then releasing them
Unlike our hatcheries where wild salmon actually have a higher survival rate then our hatchery's.
In alaska because their raise and feed them to an older age they are able to outcompete wild salmon. Yes in BC we have a few Coho and Chinook net pens its no where even close to what Alaska has and we certainly are not doing it with pink salmon. '
So at what age does a salmon have to be in a net pen before it turns from ranching to farming????????
Aparently there are a couple of Alaska salmon ranching hatcheries that keep pens of their salmon to harvest size and sell fresh. I saw it on youtube or in one of the posts I have done.
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018PREM0033-000414
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2018PREM0033-000414
For those who follow this, totally expected ... I hope the people who called for Marty's head will apologize. Yeah, right.
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Christy miller gave the crazy’s all the ammo they needed, the damage has been done.
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https://seawestnews.com/b-c-lab-cleared-conflict-accusations-salmon-farms/
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/03/16/BC-Outlier-On-Open-Net-Salmon-Farms/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=160318
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2018/03/16/BC-Outlier-On-Open-Net-Salmon-Farms/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=160318
Chris this was already posted like 4 post backs
"Carol Linnitt is managing editor of DeSmog Canada, where this story first appeared."
https://www.desmog.ca/2018/03/14/b-c-about-become-last-place-west-coast-allow-open-net-fish-farms
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Chris this was already posted like 4 post backs
"Carol Linnitt is managing editor of DeSmog Canada, where this story first appeared."
Haha! You should know by now Chris doesn't read what he posts ..his job is to forward anything negative related to fish farms.
I suspect Kinder-Morgan will be next.
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Chris this was already posted like 4 post backs
"Carol Linnitt is managing editor of DeSmog Canada, where this story first appeared."
Wanted to make sure no one missed this post.lol
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Wanted to make sure no one missed this post.lol
Keep up the good work buddy- I know you love it ;)
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Wanted to make sure no one missed this post.lol
Chris your so refreshing to debate with your level of honesty is much appreciated
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-fish-farm-activists-leave-taxpayers-hefty-bills/
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-fish-farm-activists-leave-taxpayers-hefty-bills/
This should be required reading for people like Chris ...
Funny, have you noticed Miller-Saunders and Popham have been quiet since this debacle. Both told to keep their unfounded comments to themselves, I bet.
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-fish-farm-activists-leave-taxpayers-hefty-bills/
You want to talk about how our tax dollars are spend on the fish farm file? http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
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You want to talk about how our tax dollars are spend on the fish farm file? http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canadian-taxpayers-bail-norwegian-fish-farms-diseased-fish/
Atta boy Chris - dredge up some 5 year old news that is hardly applicable to BC or what Horgan just went through because of his anti salmon farm Minister.
If you are really concerned about CFIA payments, do some googling of what the Avian flu payout to farmers was. Or perhaps the recent mad cow scare ..
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https://www.northislandgazette.com/columns/kervins-corner-alexandra-morton-challenges-marine-industry-to-public-debate-lets-give-her-one/
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/biz-monday/article205736704.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/biz-monday/article205736704.html) Now I've read everything. Salmon farming in Florida, on land. I'd love to see this be successful.
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https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
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https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/wash-tribes-first-nations-unite-to-end-atlantic-salmon-net-pen-fish-farms-across-west-coast/
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Nearly reached your quota for the week?
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Chris can you ask Alfred these questions for me?
“We congratulate you for the strong stand you have taken against this industry,” said Ernest Alfred, a traditional leader of the Namgis First Nation, which is seeking a shutdown of 20 Atlantic salmon net-pen fish farms in British Columbia, with leases that come up for renewal in June.
Does Ernest Alfred represent all the First Nations of BC?
"“I represent many people all up and down the coast when I say we want the fish farms out,” Alfred said."
Again what bands do you represent Alfred?
"The declaration called for “consistency of law to ban all open net-pen Atlantic salmon fish farms."
How come only Atlantic salmon farms? when Kristy Millers research has shown that more virus and disease may be in chinook fish farms?
“Given our documented concerns toward the cumulative and collective impacts of fish farms on indigenous salmon populations, we call for an immediate halt to the restocking of fish farms and the cancellation or decline to renewal of all remaining fish farm leases along the west coast of North America.”
Again has DFO or any other Agency shown that fish farms have caused damage to wild stocks or is the reason for the declines in wild salmon? What are the cumulative and collective impacts?
http://www.chronline.com/news/washington-tribes-and-first-nations-unite-to-end-atlantic-salmon/article_f3977084-2c64-11e8-987c-8ba0a31fa8d0.html
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Chris can you ask Alfred these questions for me?
“We congratulate you for the strong stand you have taken against this industry,” said Ernest Alfred, a traditional leader of the Namgis First Nation, which is seeking a shutdown of 20 Atlantic salmon net-pen fish farms in British Columbia, with leases that come up for renewal in June.
Does Ernest Alfred represent all the First Nations of BC?
"“I represent many people all up and down the coast when I say we want the fish farms out,” Alfred said."
Again what bands do you represent Alfred?
"The declaration called for “consistency of law to ban all open net-pen Atlantic salmon fish farms."
How come only Atlantic salmon farms? when Kristy Millers research has shown that more virus and disease may be in chinook fish farms?
“Given our documented concerns toward the cumulative and collective impacts of fish farms on indigenous salmon populations, we call for an immediate halt to the restocking of fish farms and the cancellation or decline to renewal of all remaining fish farm leases along the west coast of North America.”
Again has DFO or any other Agency shown that fish farms have caused damage to wild stocks or is the reason for the declines in wild salmon? What are the cumulative and collective impacts?
http://www.chronline.com/news/washington-tribes-and-first-nations-unite-to-end-atlantic-salmon/article_f3977084-2c64-11e8-987c-8ba0a31fa8d0.html
Best you speak to him yourself, so you can have a good debate not sure when he is in Vancouver next. Not sure where you live. If you live on the island you could travel to Alert Bay for a meeting.
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2018/03/22/cooke-activists-wrap-up-lobbying-as-washington-governor-mulls-fish-farm-ban-bill/
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https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/03/21/news/federal-chief-science-advisor-investigate-fish-farms
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Best you speak to him yourself, so you can have a good debate not sure when he is in Vancouver next. Not sure where you live. If you live on the island you could travel to Alert Bay for a meeting.
:) you should try that yourself Chris. But then you may learn where the money comes from that funds the dog science.
https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
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:) you should try that yourself Chris. But then you may learn where the money comes from that funds the dog science.
https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
I donot have to as very content on the stand I take on this issue, we continue to make headway all the time. Being near 75 I am not sure if I will live long enough to see the battle won but I am happy we have contributed to save our wild fish the best I can and the environment on other fronts too.
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Come on guys no personal against Chris! He's fighting for salmon with his heart!
We can have a debate but no personal attacks!
also what is the definition of wild salmon these day? because im very confused after reading statements like these....
"5th year of rebuilding Capilano’s Chinook run with eggs from Chilliwack Hatchery. The goal is to eradicate any of the remnant Qualicum red population and replace with a fish that is less likely to rear in the inside passage. The program to date has been a success. With this program came with some CWT funding that we are using to evaluate rearing strategies (net pens vs. river release). This was the third year of receiving data on this project. Data suggest that net pen fish are being caught in high numbers and their survival is also high."
Also aren't Chilliwack Chinook Harrison stock? like im beginning to question the terms thrown around wild, native ect...
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Chilliwack White chinooks came from Harrison River stock. The July reds are I believe Quesnel, Bowron, Chilko and Slim Creek fish. Buck will know for sure
There was a Chilliwack run of native red fleshed at one time but I think that is all gone now.
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Chris
July reds are from Slim Creek.
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Chris
July reds are from Slim Creek.
Thanks for the correct information.
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https://seawestnews.com/court-dismisses-namgis-application-stop-restocking-fish-farm/
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Best you speak to him yourself, so you can have a good debate not sure when he is in Vancouver next. Not sure where you live. If you live on the island you could travel to Alert Bay for a meeting.
Found my answer looks like he doesn't even represent all the people in his own Band!
https://www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/opinion/b-c-views-untold-stories-of-b-c-salmon-farms/
TF: There’s another guy named Ernest Alfred involved, is he related?
MI: Yes. I’m actually related to Ernest myself. So he says, anyway. The day he occupied Swanson Island, the first day he was there, I arrived there and he said, “hey, there’s my cousin Maurice.”
TF: He’s a hereditary chief?
MI: He’s the representative, he’s the lead guy. He’s not a negotiator. He’s stated that many times. He’s a bad representative of our people. He’s disrespectful.
TF: Licences for 18 Broughton Archipelago salmon farms are coming up for renewal by the province. Do you think you’re getting a fair assessment?
MI: I don’t feel it’s fair from their side. The protesters aren’t actually showing any real science and facts, other than some cherry-picked pictures that they spent hours and hours trying to capture.
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https://seawestnews.com/court-dismisses-namgis-application-stop-restocking-fish-farm/
So I wonder who pays the court costs? No, I guess I know who .... us. Another taxpayer bill because of activists like Almo.
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So I wonder who pays the court costs? No, I guess I know who .... us. Another taxpayer bill because of activists like Almo.
Could you imagine what 100k would do for the SEP program who has not seen a budget increase since 1997!
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Could you imagine what 100k would do for the SEP program who has not seen a budget increase since 1997!
F*** 100K, think about the 26M spent on Cohen :-[
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http://www.conservationcouncil.ca/en/fish-farm-biosecurity-inadequate-to-protect-wild-salmon/
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What a bizarre article to read. It reads in a way that suggests ISA is in BC yet provides nothing to support such a claim. Crafty but false. The PSF DFO and a bunch of other groups recently finished sampling 14000 salmon up and down the coast here in BC and didn't find ISA once. Dont take my word for it. You can hear it from one of the worlds most highly respected scientist whom all salmon farm activist have paraded non stop for about 8 years, Kristy Millar Saunders. See 33:45 in the video where she explains clearly how much ISA they detected on the BC coast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2020&v=qfIGzDrTtJA
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http://www.conservationcouncil.ca/en/fish-farm-biosecurity-inadequate-to-protect-wild-salmon/
Your link isn't working ... maybe they realized the article was disingenuous :o
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What a bizarre article to read. It reads in a way that suggests ISA is in BC yet provides nothing to support such a claim. Crafty but false. The PSF DFO and a bunch of other groups recently finished sampling 14000 salmon up and down the coast here in BC and didn't find ISA once. Dont take my word for it. You can hear it from one of the worlds most highly respected scientist whom all salmon farm activist have paraded non stop for about 8 years, Kristy Millar Saunders. See 33:45 in the video where she explains clearly how much ISA they detected on the BC coast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2020&v=qfIGzDrTtJA
Correction
There is a study posted in the article but it and the article are from early 2016. In the results the term used for all samples except for one tested "non-negative". The only difference between non-negative and postive is non-negative includes Zero and positive can only be a number greater than zero. Hmmmmmm.
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Here's another side to BC's salmon farms ..
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-shutting-down-salmon-farming-would-put-us-out-of-business-1.23246490
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Here's another side to BC's salmon farms ..
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/op-ed/comment-shutting-down-salmon-farming-would-put-us-out-of-business-1.23246490
I wonder what those jobs pay? Anything like Cooke's whopping 12 dollar and change an hour wage? How many of those McJobs are full time? Pensions and benefits? ;)
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My brother just moved to Port Mcneill, Bought a house overlooking the ocean for less than 200k. 2k square feet bc box, with most rooms redone.
I make twice as much as he does down here but he has by far more take home pay.
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https://biv.com/article/2018/04/fish-farm-moratorium-remain-place
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And a little more fuel for the fire........ I listened to David Hawksworth being interviewed and in support of land based facilities, he uses Kuterra. Dave convinced met to try a piece of Kuterra once. Not my cup of tea, but it was edible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/big-name-b-c-chefs-protest-salmon-farms-1.4607421
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And a little more fuel for the fire........ I listened to David Hawksworth being interviewed and in support of land based facilities, he uses Kuterra. Dave convinced met to try a piece of Kuterra once. Not my cup of tea, but it was edible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/big-name-b-c-chefs-protest-salmon-farms-1.4607421
https://biv.com/article/2018/04/fish-farm-moratorium-remain-place
“We’ve committed to the idea of moving ocean-based farms onto land,” she said. “I don’t know how that will actually play out, but I can tell you that the technologies around the world are progressing and we’re keeping a close watch on”
The problem with land-based fish farms is that, to date, none have turned a profit.”
https://seawestnews.com/skuna-bay-salmon-joins-movement-to-offer-sustainable-seafood-options/
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And a little more fuel for the fire........ I listened to David Hawksworth being interviewed and in support of land based facilities, he uses Kuterra. Dave convinced met to try a piece of Kuterra once. Not my cup of tea, but it was edible.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/big-name-b-c-chefs-protest-salmon-farms-1.4607421
You must really like pink salmon then nice and lean and no fat.
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https://seawestnews.com/credibility-not-on-the-menu-for-these-bc-chefs/
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http://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/april-2018/integrity-of-the-dfos-science-advisory-process-in-question/
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“Raise them on land.” This is the sole solution from our local “environmentalists” who insist they want to see salmon raised in land-based tanks – regardless of the 4.16 billion litres of fresh water these tanks would need.“
https://seawestnews.com/sustainable-salmon-farming-in-british-columbia/
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Land-based salmon producer: Price premium helping offset production issues
CEO of Polish producer tells IntraFish that the road to success has been full of challenges when it comes to closed-containment salmon farming.
April 12th, 2018 11:14 GMT Updated April 12th, 2018 12:34 GMT
Polish land-based farmed salmon producer Jurassic Salmon is still facing production issues, but is nevertheless continuing to receive a higher price for its fish than its open net-pen competitors, the top executive at the group told IntraFish.
The farm has had a number of problems, both with meat quality, cooling and production
"Producing salmon in closed systems in not that easy," CEO Michal Kowalski told IntraFish.
The quality of salmon has improved, but the weight remains a problem, with the company harvesting fish of between 2-4 kilos, he said.
This means the company is harvesting around 50 metric tons per month, equivalent to 600 metric tons per year -- while the potential, according to Kowalski, is about 50 percent higher at 900 metric tons.
"We hope to reach that potential within a couple of years," he said.
On the up side, Jurassic Salmon is selling its fish at prices that are between 20 percent and 30 percent higher than salmon from open net pen farms, thanks in part to its Aquaculture Stewardship Council (ASC) certification and the fact that vaccines or medicines are not used in
raising this fish, he said.
The company's use of thermal water also gives it additional margin on production as well, according to Kowalski.
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http://www.kuterra.com/files/1614/8064/9419/Kuterra_performance_metrics_to_16_06_30.pdf
Not so investment worthy :(
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http://www.kuterra.com/files/1614/8064/9419/Kuterra_performance_metrics_to_16_06_30.pdf
Not so investment worthy :(
Alaska makes land based fish farms IN BC not economical. Floods the market with cheap ranched salmon
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Alaska makes land based fish farms IN BC not economical. Floods the market with cheap ranched salmon
Ranched salmon: Genetically inferior drones that mine the ocean of protein.
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Wow you all still at it??? I'll be back once work eases a bit. Too much fun to read
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Welcome back Basso. Yeah, nothing has changed ... still no hard evidence salmon farms are harming what's left of our wild fish but people still need a scapegoat.
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The battle is over pretty well, ENGO's have won and definitely a sign of our current left wing governments.
Fishermen have unwittingly put their support behind groups that will end commercial and recreational salmon fishing Mark my words!
More and more of this BS every day, Social Media campaigns are winning
https://www.safesalmon.ca/
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I think you may well be right Wildmanyeah, social media has turned the tide. The sad part is these well-meaning (for the most part) activists are being manipulated and possibly even funded by self-interested American groups with financial ties to the resources that are the backbone of the Canadian economy.
We are being had right now, big time.
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This should be required reading for people like Chris ...
Funny, have you noticed Miller-Saunders and Popham have been quiet since this debacle. Both told to keep their unfounded comments to themselves, I bet.
Popham is doing some big backtracking now. Now she’s a defender of the Abbotsford lab. Funny how facts seem to do that. Wow how things change when the bs hits the fan and hit her square in the face. But of course we will keep getting the Deep State conspiracy theories. Entertaining but not constructive.
http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/review-backs-b-c-s-fish-farm-science-dismisses-ministers-concerns
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https://seawestnews.com/why-is-the-anti-fish-farm-lobby-so-afraid-of-science/
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http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/fisheries-department-doing-too-little-to-protect-wild-fish-from-salmon-farms-federal-audit-finds
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http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_cesd_201804_01_e_42992.html
OMG the Almo Sea Lice photo shows up in a government report wow!
What we examined. We examined whether Fisheries and Oceans Canada had measures in place to prevent and control infectious diseases and pathogens in salmon farms where it had this authority. We also looked at whether the Canadian Food Inspection Agency met its requirement to implement measures to prevent the introduction and spread of infectious diseases in salmon farms across Canada.
1.38Disease controls for aquaculture operations in British Columbia. We found that the Department established conditions for the location and expansion of aquaculture sites to ensure that farms were best located to reduce aquaculture risks. For example, as had been recommended by the Cohen Commission, the Department prohibited new sites and expansions in one area of British Columbia where many salmon farms were located, due to the number of wild salmon migrating through this area.
1.39 The Department also imposed conditions on the operation of salmon farms in British Columbia. For example, aquaculture companies had to monitor and control diseases and parasites, and to record the number of fish placed in net pens, the number of deaths during the growing cycle, and the number of fish harvested. If the number of deaths exceeded a certain limit, the companies had to notify the Department.
1.40 To verify compliance with these conditions, the Department conducted fish health audits and sea lice inspections on salmon farms in British Columbia. Although it noted high compliance with licensing conditions, the Department acknowledged that it might not have been addressing the most important fish health issues, such as the detection of new and emerging diseases. The audit program had not been updated since 2006. In addition, the Department had not analyzed trends in diseases and parasites. During the course of our audit, the Department conducted a review of its audit program and planned to make changes as appropriate.
1.41Disease controls for aquaculture in Canada. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Fisheries and Oceans Canada co-delivered the National Aquatic Animal Health program to prevent and control the spread of disease. Under this program, the Agency had the lead role for activities such as monitoring the presence of disease and ordering the destruction of diseased fish. In 2016, the Agency also became responsible for controlling the movement of fish between provinces. Before 2016, only Fisheries and Oceans Canada had this responsibility.
1.42 For the areas we examined, we found that the Agency managed its responsibilities in terms of disease control for salmon aquaculture in a manner consistent with its mandate to protect fish across Canada. It certified whether areas where net-pen salmon farms were located were free of disease, and it set conditions for the movement of fish to prevent the spread of disease. It focused on a set of diseases based on a list of criteria established by the World Organisation for Animal Health. The criteria included trade importance and the potential to negatively affect significant wild fish populations.
1.43 However, we found that the Department and the Agency did not have a formal process to share information about aquatic animal health. Agency officials noted that they shared information with Department officials at headquarters, but that this was not always transmitted to Department staff in the regions. In our view, information sharing was critical to ensure that the Agency and the Department were working together effectively to control the disease risks associated with aquaculture.
1.44 At the time of our audit, the Department planned to transfer to the Agency responsibility for controlling risks related to the movement of live fish. This transfer would be limited to diseases the Agency was already regulating. We found that the Department had not formally assessed whether this change would create gaps in the protection of wild fish. For example, the Department and the Agency had not clarified their respective roles and responsibilities for managing emerging diseases, which created the risk that potential emerging diseases affecting farmed and wild salmon would not be adequately addressed.
1.45 Finally, we found that the Department had limited laboratory capacity to provide timely surveillance test results to the Agency so that the Agency could make timely decisions on disease control. In some cases, the Department provided test results to the Agency one year after samples had been taken.
1.46Recommendation. Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency should clarify their roles and responsibilities for managing emerging disease risks to mitigate the potential impacts of salmon farming on wild fish.
The Department’s response. Agreed. Fisheries and Oceans Canada will continue to work collaboratively with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the federal lead for managing diseases of both farmed and wild fish, to clarify roles and responsibilities for managing emerging diseases and agree on the most efficient and effective method for sharing information on fish health. The Department will work with the Agency to establish a formal process to discuss, assess, and share information on emerging diseases of interest to either government entity. This process will help to clarify the government response and framework for the assessment of risk for emerging diseases to mitigate any potential impacts to wild fish. This formal process will be implemented by April 2019.
The Agency’s response. Agreed. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency will work with Fisheries and Oceans Canada to develop and document a formal process to discuss and evaluate emerging diseases of concern to either government entity and decide which entity will assume which role or responsibility with regard to such diseases in order to protect wild fish. Technical staff in the Agency and the Department will engage in the development of such a process during the 2018–19 fiscal year, with implementation by April 2019.
1.47Use of the precautionary approach in managing aquaculture. In its Aquaculture Policy Framework, the Department committed to applying the “precautionary approach” to decision making. This approach ensured that when there were threats of serious or irreversible damage to wild fish, lack of full scientific certainty would not be used as a reason for postponing measures to protect them.
1.48 However, the Department had not clarified how it would apply the precautionary approach in its management of aquaculture. For example, it had not set limits or thresholds for when to take action if it observed declines in wild fish stocks in areas where aquaculture was prevalent. To respond to such declines, the Department would have to consider the potential effects of aquaculture along with those of other stressors, such as climate change and overfishing.
1.49 In our view, a clear explanation of how the Department applied the precautionary approach was especially important, given its commitment to advancing aquaculture, as stated in the Aquaculture Policy Framework. Without this explanation, the Department was vulnerable to claims that it prioritized the development of the aquaculture industry over the protection of wild fish.
1.50Recommendation. Fisheries and Oceans Canada should determine and communicate how it applies the precautionary approach to managing aquaculture when there is uncertainty about the effects of aquaculture on wild fish. The Department should also clearly articulate the level of risk to wild fish that it accepts when enabling the aquaculture industry.
The Department’s response. Agreed. Fisheries and Oceans Canada will continue to apply the precautionary approach according to the Government of Canada’s framework on precaution. The Department applies the precautionary approach where appropriate, as a subcomponent within an overall decision-making approach, to deal with risks of serious or irreversible harm even with significant scientific uncertainty. Even when a particular activity is deemed “low” risk, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used to postpone mitigation measures to prevent further potential environmental degradation. The Department will clearly communicate how it applies the precautionary approach to management decisions (for example, on the Department’s website).
To support this, the Department conducts research to characterize how individual species, populations, and communities respond to a range of stressors, including aquaculture. This research informs management decision making concerning establishment or refinement of thresholds to protect at-risk ecosystem functions and valued components.
The Department will further explore options, building on best practices in the current pathway of effects framework, to more clearly articulate, by March 2019, how precaution and the application of risk assessments inform departmental decision making.
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https://globalnews.ca/video/4171717/fish-farm-critics-release-shocking-new-video
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Seems like the wild fishery is the real concern.
http://glassspongereefs.com/
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I have a hunch there is more to this story. A year seems a long time to have no biological source scarfing up all those nutrients.
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https://www.facebook.com/Olsen4MLA/videos/1877440592288524/UzpfSTE2Mzc2NTg4MzY1MzgyOToxOTM5MDQ0NzA5NDU5MjYy/
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http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/fisheries-department-doing-too-little-to-protect-wild-fish-from-salmon-farms-federal-audit-finds
Here is another report and video too. http://aptnnews.ca/2018/04/24/canada-not-properly-managing-fish-farms-environment-commissioner-says/
Thoughts on this?
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Social media has won
Good job Chris
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/virus-killing-farmed-pacific-and-atlantic-salmon-raises-risk-for-wild-b-c-population-study-1.3918507#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=w066rQ
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https://seawestnews.com/salmon-virus-study-is-about-activism-not-science-experts/
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https://seawestnews.com/salmon-virus-study-is-about-activism-not-science-experts/
Thanks, I know Dave had said a while ago that he had a lot of respect for Dr. Riddell and would be supporter of the finding he found.
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https://seawestnews.com/inside-the-fear-mongering-campaign-against-aquaculture/
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http://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/prv_sept_2014.pdf
Question and Answer: Piscine Reovirus (PRV)
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https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/05/08/fisheries-and-oceans-canada-monitoring-tofino-fish-farms-after-sea-lice-outbreak.html
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https://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/news/too-many-salmon-sea
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Thanks, I know Dave had said a while ago that he had a lot of respect for Dr. Riddell and would be supporter of the finding he found.
Yes I do respect what Riddell says and so far he has not said what you want to hear. To many " mays, perhaps, it appears", etc. When he says it "does" I will listen.
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Yes I do respect what Riddell says and so far he has not said what you want to hear. To many " mays, perhaps, it appears", etc. When he says it "does" I will listen.
He has almost squealed it out. Still I find the inconclusiveness in the report extremely frustrating. I think this more of salmon stocks are doing bad so fish farms have to give up their piece of the pie if everyone else does.
Good take on the PSF study,
http://www.fis.com/fis/worldnews/wo...=8&id=97194&l=e&country=0&special=&ndb=1&df=0'
“Our study used novel molecular tools to show that PRV-1 was intimately involved in the development of jaundice/anemia in chinook salmon,” said Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and lead scientist in the SSHI.
“The study also reveals a difference in PRV-1 sensitivity between species that could easily explain why the virus causes inflammation in Atlantic salmon and cell death in chinook salmon,” Riddell stressed.
In Riddell’s view, the study goes far enough to encourage regulators to act on protecting wild salmon.
“It’s extremely difficult to measure mortality rate in wild salmon,” he said. “The idea that we have to demonstrate everything to the last degree in wild salmon is not going to get us to a solution.”
And then their is this release by the PSF
“This transition to closed containment will take time but the removal of open net-pen farms along migratory routes of wild Pacific salmon, particularly for those stocks of greatest concern, should occur as soon as possible. During this transition, everything possible should be done to improve the assessment of the risks to wild Pacific salmon, including through the work of the Strategic Salmon Health Initiative that is being done in partnership with PSF, Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and Genome BC. “
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PACIFIC SALMON FOUNDATION POSITION ON AQUACULTURE IN BC
News Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 9th, 2018
The Pacific Salmon Foundation Board of Directors today released the following position on aquaculture in British Columbia:
The Pacific Salmon Foundation (PSF) believes that British Columbia and Canada must put wild Pacific salmon first and that a move to closed-containment salmon aquaculture is recommended. We are taking this position now based on the combination of the information in the recent report of the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Finfish Aquaculture; the results of our own research to date; and the chronically-low abundance of most wild Pacific salmon populations today.
This transition to closed containment will take time but the removal of open net-pen farms along migratory routes of wild Pacific salmon, particularly for those stocks of greatest concern, should occur as soon as possible. During this transition, everything possible should be done to improve the assessment of the risks to wild Pacific salmon, including through the work of the Strategic Salmon Health Initiative that is being done in partnership with PSF, Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and Genome BC.
PSF supports the report of the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Finfish Aquaculture and is prepared to assist the provincial and federal government in the move to closed-containment aquaculture and restoration of wild Pacific salmon.
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BACKGROUNDER ON CHANGES TO OPEN NET-PEN AQUACULTURE
The Pacific Salmon Foundation (PSF) is calling for a move to closed-containment salmon aquaculture as the best way to protect wild Pacific salmon.
This position – approved by the PSF Board of Directors – is based on the potential impacts from open net-pen salmon farms on wild Pacific Salmon.
For more than 30 years, PSF has followed the development of “sustainable aquaculture” in B.C.’s coastal waters. While changes have been implemented by the industry, concerns about interactions with wild Pacific salmon continue to grow and we see no resolution to them in the short term. PSF has come to its decision for a number of reasons, including:
the information in the recent report of the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Finfish Aquaculture;
the results of scientific research to date from the Strategic Salmon Health Initiative it currently has underway with DFO and Genome BC;
and the critical situation with respect to many wild Pacific salmon populations in southern BC, including Fraser River Sockeye and many Chinook, Coho and Steelhead.
Because of all of this, PSF believes that open net-pen salmon aquaculture in B.C.’s marine waters poses biological risks to the abundance and diversity of already depleted wild Pacific salmon.
The approach of waiting for scientific certainty is unrealistic because the potential risks have continually been placed on our wild Pacific salmon. PSF is therefore calling on British Columbia and Canada to put wild Pacific salmon first with respect to the management of these risks. Pacific salmon are invaluable to our province, ecosystems and people.
PSF recognizes that a full transition to land-based aquaculture will take time, so it is advocating that some actions need to be taken now to minimize risks.
The first priority should be moving – as soon as possible – the open net-pen farms located along the major migratory routes of wild Pacific salmon, particularly the Fraser River sockeye, as those stocks are of great public concern, have the strongest annual assessment programs to monitor change, and are known to be exposed to farms in Johnstone Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound.
PSF remains willing to assist the provincial and federal government in advancing the move to closed-containment aquaculture, and more so, in restoring wild Pacific salmon populations.
Contact:
Stephen Bruyneel, Pacific Salmon Foundation, 604 842 1971
About the Pacific Salmon Foundation:
The Pacific Salmon Foundation was created in 1987 as an independent, non-governmental, charitable organization to protect, conserve and rebuild Pacific Salmon populations in British Columbia and the Yukon. The Foundation’s mission is to be the trusted voice for conservation and restoration of wild Pacific salmon and their ecosystems and works to bring salmon back stream by stream through the strategic use of resources and local communities. www.psf.ca
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The PSF has enough clout to actually force changes in fish farming, and along with the anti FN groups, I think this will play into Horgan's decision to not renew a few contentious farm licences.
Interesting times ahead for the salmon farming industry in BC. Any bets a few get involved in chinook recovery programs?
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The PSF has enough clout to actually force changes in fish farming, and along with the anti FN groups, I think this will play into Horgan's decision to not renew a few contentious farm licences.
Interesting times ahead for the salmon farming industry in BC. Any bets a few get involved in chinook recovery programs?
When I was in Victoria 2 weeks ago I got the indication when talking to a NDP Cabinet minister what you are saying could happen but we will see in June to confirm that the NDP will not renew some licenses. The opposition continues to mount. ;D
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The PSF has enough clout to actually force changes in fish farming, and along with the anti FN groups, I think this will play into Horgan's decision to not renew a few contentious farm licences.
Interesting times ahead for the salmon farming industry in BC. Any bets a few get involved in chinook recovery programs?
Funny you say that I just emailed seawest news and basically outlined that if they want to change the PR picture
That salmon farms need to put some of their budget into net pen projects and salmon enhancement to offset their impacts.
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https://seawestnews.com/british-columbia-salmon-farming-and-viruses/
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https://seawestnews.com/british-columbia-salmon-farming-and-viruses/
Seawestnews is starting to piss me off, They need to rethink their PR campaign. Attacking the science with other science is clearly not working and with the PSF now on the side of removing fish farms the PR campaign needs to take a drastic shift. PSF has to much clout as a neutral body to fight against.
Seawestnews needs to get together with the salmon farming industry and come up with some sort of wild stock enhancement program. If land based fish farms cost 10 times is much then Fish farms must have some decent profits that can go into wild /hatchery/net pen enhancement.
They need to have some sort of positive PR that they can sell to fishermen and the public.
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NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
May 17, 2018
Contact: Ken Warheit, 360-902-2595
WDFW denies permit for company to place
800,000 Atlantic salmon into Puget Sound net pens
OLYMPIA – Citing the risk of fish disease transmission, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) has denied permission for Cooke Aquaculture to transport 800,000 juvenile Atlantic salmon from its hatchery near Rochester to net pens at Rich Passage in Kitsap County.
In late April, Cooke applied for permission to move juvenile non-native salmon from its hatchery into pens in Kitsap County to replace adult fish that were recently harvested. Washington lawmakers enacted a bill earlier this year that will phase out Atlantic salmon net-pen aquaculture by 2022, but Cooke plans to continue to operate until then.
WDFW officials cited two factors in denying the permit that they said would increase the risk of disease transmission within the net pens and possibly to wild and hatchery-raised Pacific salmon outside the pens:
The population of Atlantic salmon that would have been transported from Cooke’s hatchery near Rochester tested positive for a form of the fish virus PRV (piscine orthoreovirus) that is essentially the same as the PRV that occurs at the Iceland hatchery from which Cooke receives Atlantic salmon eggs. The Icelandic form of PRV is not known to occur in the eastern Pacific Ocean or Puget Sound, so WDFW classifies it as “exotic” in Washington.
Cooke proposed to place fish into pens that have not been empty (or “fallow”) for at least 30 days after the most recent harvest of adult fish, and within a farm that still contains adult Atlantic salmon. These actions would contradict the company’s own management plan.
“Each of these factors raised an unacceptable risk of introducing an exotic strain of PRV into Washington marine waters,” said Ken Warheit, WDFW fish health manager. “This would represent an unknown and therefore unacceptable risk of disease transmission.”
Warheit said samples of the juvenile fish that would have been transported were collected by an independent licensed veterinarian under contract with Cooke. The samples were tested for PRV at the Washington Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory at Washington State University. Test results were confirmed at the U.S. Geological Survey’s Washington Fisheries Research Center.
Until recently, Cooke operated up to nine net pens in Puget Sound, including one at Cypress Island in Skagit County that collapsed last August and allowed approximately 250,000 Atlantic salmon to escape. The company’s latest permit application is not related to the Cypress Island operation or the August mishap.
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That's great news Chris - I've been going on about Cooke for a long time after seeing the rubbish they pull oin the east coast.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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https://watershedsentinel.ca/articles/crunch-time-bc-contested-salmon-farms/
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Fish farms vs wild caught salmon. Why fish farms? A) $$$$$$$ making B ) meets restaurant demands / regular supply.
Bottom line salmon is considered a healthy food product. There's your plate of pan fried or oven baked BC (farm) salmon,with vegetables,salad,side of fries or yams. Bill is $35 in this dining place.
Person may be very well off & eats the same dish many times per week.
Oh what about either the UBC or SFU study that was in either in The Sun or The Province newspaper in the 1990s. Do remember CLEARLY the article stated to eat a farm salmon max. 1x per month!!!!!!!!!!!
Because of all the chemicals that were found in the fish!!!!!!!
I mean soft ice cream is also tasty but do we eat a giant bowl of it for breakfast lunch & supper??? No.
If experts recommend to eat only 1 farm salmon per month what does that tell you ????
Unhealthy to eat regularly.
Does the average eater think of that looking at a menu. No. We have warnings on cig packages & should there not be a warning on the menu that farm salmon should be eaten max. 1x per month ? Of course.
If it gets well known this is an unhealthy choice the demand will decrease by 80% me thinks.
Too many think it 's a healthy choice when the opposite is true.
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https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/05/24/we-are-salmon-people-bc-us-coalition-protesting-net-pen-fish-farms-on-traditional-indigenous-land.html
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Chris your favorite anti fish farm group is now calling for a stop to all recreational chinook salmon fishing.
Ottawa’s plan to limit Chinook Salmon fishing to help resident orcas gets mixed reaction
Posted By: Isabelle Raghemon: May 26, 2018In: CHEK, News
WATCH: Federal government announced this week it will be reducing the total fishery removals for Chinook salmon by up to 35 per cent. The plan is getting mixed reactions. Isabelle Raghem reports.
<div>Please enable Javascript to watch this video</div>
Ottawa is getting mixed reactions to its plan to protect southern resident killer whales by putting limits on Chinook salmon fishing, the orcas' primary food.
"This notion that somehow you can simply say well if everyone stopped fishing, the whales would be better off or the fish would be better off simply makes no sense," says the Chair of the Sport Fishing Advisory Board, Gerry Kristianson.
Kristianson says while the group wants to be part of the solution, he fears the fishing community is being unfairly singled out.
"Whale watchers, commercial crab fishing, all these other things continue to take place... this will mean that in effect the recreational fishery is being sacrificed when others are not being asked to make the same contribution."
In the announcement, the Ministry of Fisheries says they will be implementing "a reduction in the total fishery removals of chinook salmon of 25-35 percent," and placing "fishery closures for recreational finfish and commercial salmon fisheries in portions of the Strait of Juan De Fuca and portions of the Gulf Islands."
But the director of the Watershed Salmon Watch Society says 35 per cent isn't going far enough.
"There's this huge array of threats so when we're confronting these threats we need to address the ones that we can and certainly reduce the over-fishing of these endangered Chinook population is something we can do right now," says Aaron Hill.
"[Chinook Salmon] are in severe crisis and so there really isn't any fishing to be done on them at all," he adds.
There still many questions surrounding this plan that have not yet been answered including how it will be implemented and where. Those are details expected to come out in the coming weeks.
The Sport Fishing Advisory Board would like to see the government work to produce more Chinook salmon rather than limiting anglers.
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https://www.northislandgazette.com/news/b-c-first-nations-tell-activists-to-stay-away-this-summer/
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A Notice of Intention to Apply for a Disposition of Crown Land under the Land Act is currently underway by Albeit Aquaculture Corp.
This Corporation is wanting to establish a freshwater Aquaculture farm to raise a subspecies of landlocked Atlantic Salmon native to fresh waters of a province in Argentina.
The legal description of the land is MoT highway right of way, District Lot 5915 RDCK South Terminus of Taghum Hall Road (Nelson).
Albeit Corporation will receive comments up until June 30, 2018. Please share this on your social media sites.
If you have an objection, please let Albeit Corp know, as well as our local MLA Katrine Conroy
Address / Contact Info
Kootenay West Constituency Office
2 - 1006 3rd Street Castlegar, BCV1N 3X6
Phone : (250) 304-2783
Toll-free : 1-888-755-0556
Fax : (250) 304-2655
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A Notice of Intention to Apply for a Disposition of Crown Land under the Land Act is currently underway by Albeit Aquaculture Corp.
This Corporation is wanting to establish a freshwater Aquaculture farm to raise a subspecies of landlocked Atlantic Salmon native to fresh waters of a province in Argentina.
The legal description of the land is MoT highway right of way, District Lot 5915 RDCK South Terminus of Taghum Hall Road (Nelson).
Albeit Corporation will receive comments up until June 30, 2018. Please share this on your social media sites.
If you have an objection, please let Albeit Corp know, as well as our local MLA Katrine Conroy
Address / Contact Info
Kootenay West Constituency Office
2 - 1006 3rd Street Castlegar, BCV1N 3X6
Phone : (250) 304-2783
Toll-free : 1-888-755-0556
Fax : (250) 304-2655
not in my backyard ...
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/535/633/992/
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http://financialpost.com/opinion/suzukis-fish-story
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David Suzuki has been asked whether the bad press that his foundation has generated about salmon farming is part of a “demarketing” campaign to prop up demand for Alaskan salmon.
Suszki also wants to stop all wild chinook salmon fishing by recreational fishermen.
https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/petition-for-srkw-emergency-order_2018-01-30.pdf
the poaching for salmon is gonna go up 10 fold
There is no way to support getting rid of fish farms without supporting the same people that want to put an end to recreational fishing.
Recreational fishermen and salmon farms are in the same boat we both kill wild salmon..sure looks like recreational fishermen kill more tho
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2018/06/06/algal-bloom-kills-half-of-griegs-salmon-at-two-british-columbia-farms/
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https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2018/06/06/algal-bloom-kills-half-of-griegs-salmon-at-two-british-columbia-farms/
Sad news. How many wild do you think we lost to the same bloom Chris?
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More bad news. http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/algae-bloom-decimates-two-b-c-fish-farms
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https://seawestnews.com/wild-salmon-first-or-money-first/
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https://www.facebook.com/GeorgiaStraitBC/videos/2009579222408656/UzpfSTExMTM2NTUwODg3NDg1OToxOTg2MzkxNjY4MDM4ODkx/
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https://www.regulatorwatch.com/brent_stafford/salmon-wars-first-nations-pushback-fish-farm-fight/
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https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/ashleigh-ball-of-hey-ocean-live-and-hear-the-call-film-tickets-46967591330
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https://issuu.com/aquaculturemag/docs/aquaculturemag_44-3/54
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https://issuu.com/aquaculturemag/docs/aquaculturemag_44-3/54
Thanks for this link Bob, hope you send along part 3 ;)
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Why is Fisherbob still allowed to post....pretty obvious they are a paid fishfarm partictipant? Might be worth looking into Rodney?
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Why is Fisherbob still allowed to post....pretty obvious they are a paid fishfarm partictipant? Might be worth looking into Rodney?
Im curios Old Blue. If it was your forum would you get rid of FBob? And why?
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http://www.namgis.bc.ca/news-items/province-establishes-joint-decision-making-process-with-first-nations-for-broughton-archipelago-fish-farm-tenures/
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Filmed this last Thursday. https://youtu.be/KfONg_r_oTY
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Filmed this last Thursday. https://youtu.be/KfONg_r_oTY
https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
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https://biv.com/article/2018/07/prv-not-salmon-killer-bc-study
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https://biv.com/article/2018/07/prv-not-salmon-killer-bc-study
Can't wait for the author's, and Almo's, response to this. On it goes.
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Can't wait for the author's, and Almo's, response to this. On it goes.
Dave you know what the response will be from almo it will be to call out the EVIL government and how they are in the pockets of rich companies.
I am more interested to hear pacific salmon foundations response but my guess is they are going to be silent. This will be an utter embarrassment for them if it goes sideways on them.
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4750305
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https://seawestnews.com/whale-of-a-whopper-by-anti-fish-farm-activists/
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https://theprovince.com/opinion/op-ed/john-paul-fraser-lessons-learned-about-ocean-based-salmon-farms
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https://seawestnews.com/armed-with-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists-seek-your-cash/
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https://craigmedred.news/2018/08/18/buying-fish/
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Business as usual I see. Health isn't great but I need to turn over some rocks. I wonder if SS misses me.... ;) ;)
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https://seawestnews.com/nothing-new-here-and-nothing-alarming-here/
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https://seawestnews.com/nothing-new-here-and-nothing-alarming-here/
Thanks for keeping these links coming Fisherbob :) I wonder if people still send money to this lady?
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https://www.seawestnews.com/b-c-first-nations-tell-eco-militants-to-stay-away/
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Thanks for keeping these links coming Fisherbob :) I wonder if people still send money to this lady?
Come join the Caravan David, stop by next Monday and talk to us folks here in Chilliwack and hear Eddie and others doing some great drumming too.
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Come join the Caravan David, stop by next Monday and talk to us folks here in Chilliwack and hear Eddie and others doing some great drumming too.
Nah, Eddie's drumming gives me a headache ::)
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I am no longer blinded by what a few people “think” from foreign funded propaganda. Enjoy your Monday Chris. But then again, Chilliwack is not near our waters :)
Yup I know its a double post I think Chris missed out on this one.
https://www.seawestnews.com/b-c-first-nations-tell-eco-militants-to-stay-away/
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Port Hardy and the First Nations around Port Hardy are probably the most pro fish farm people on our coast.
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Port Hardy and the First Nations around Port Hardy are probably the most pro fish farm people on our coast.
Who should we get our information from, people that see what the farming is all about or what foreign funded dog science wants us to think?
Just asking :)
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I am no longer blinded by what a few people “think” from foreign funded propaganda. Enjoy your Monday Chris. But then again, Chilliwack is not near our waters :)
Yup I know its a double post I think Chris missed out on this one.
https://www.seawestnews.com/b-c-first-nations-tell-eco-militants-to-stay-away/
Comment FB? https://hashilthsa.com/news/2018-09-17/high-sea-lice-counts-leads-cermaq-close-farm-site-clayoquot-sound
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Comment FB? https://hashilthsa.com/news/2018-09-17/high-sea-lice-counts-leads-cermaq-close-farm-site-clayoquot-sound
It looks like Cermac is on top of it and I like what Stewart Johnson had to say. :)
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It looks like Cermac is on top of it and I like what Stewart Johnson had to say. :)
If it was not for people like Alex they would not be on top of it, that's for sure. We are now on the Wild Salmon Caravan for a week as we follow the sockeye home. So glad to be part of it. Keep the posts coming while I am away as this industry continues to falter.
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Im just sitting here reading enjoying this wonderful tasty snack.
(https://i.imgur.com/J7j3bIC.png)
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If it was not for people like Alex they would not be on top of it, that's for sure. We are now on the Wild Salmon Caravan for a week as we follow the sockeye home. So glad to be part of it. Keep the posts coming while I am away as this industry continues to falter.
Morton has done nothing for wild salmon; she has, however, cost Canadian taxpayers miliions of dollars in her efforts to rid BC of salmon farms.
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Morton has done nothing for wild salmon; she has, however, cost Canadian taxpayers miliions of dollars in her efforts to rid BC of salmon farms.
More like she has cost DFO pacific regions budget a significant hit. Money that would of otherwise been spent on enforcement or salmon enhancement/studies.
That not even factoring the time that people that work for DFO have spent chasing down her wild theories. Biologist, enforcement ect...
Was it worth it?
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Your thoughts Chris?
https://www.seawestnews.com/inside-the-fear-mongering-campaign-against-aquaculture/
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What do you think Chris?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=038EKn5HAKE
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Morton has done nothing for wild salmon; she has, however, cost Canadian taxpayers miliions of dollars in her efforts to rid BC of salmon farms.
https://www.seawestnews.com/anti-fish-farm-activists-leave-taxpayers-hefty-bills/
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What do you think Chris?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=038EKn5HAKE
Sorry for getting to this as was on the Wild Salmon Caravan for a week and then hunting for a week. Will have some video for you later. Happy Thanksgiving and wild fish for supper and then Blue Grouse for tomorrow, no farmed food for me.lol
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interesting..
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The march continues to rid FF from our Oceans. https://youtu.be/XwuFRMShBug
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So you won’t answer Bob’s questions; no surprise there. Too bad you and your FN cronies won’t channel your passion for wild salmon by speaking out against the waste happening on the Fraser River now with the chum roe fishery, or the continued harvesting of endangered early and summer Fraser River chinooks. You know, do something that actually would help wild salmon.
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So you won’t answer Bob’s questions; no surprise there. Too bad you and your FN cronies won’t channel your passion for wild salmon by speaking out against the waste happening on the Fraser River now with the chum roe fishery, or the continued harvesting of endangered early and summer Fraser River chinooks. You know, do something that actually would help wild salmon.
Where is your FOC friends, SS etc? Of course they will not deal with FF and illegal activity by many sectors. Can you contact them and report back to us what they are doing with the chum fishery you speak of. I am spread thin with too many causes right now. Also I am told Fred, Rod Clapton and their new group are working on it.???
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The only people who can stop this Fraser River carnage are FN themselves - that is where Eddie Gardner and others who think likewise can really make a difference.
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The only people who can stop this Fraser River carnage are FN themselves - that is where Eddie Gardner and others who think likewise can really make a difference.
This is where it is.
Steelhead conservation is a significant priority for us" - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
From: RODNEY CLAPTON
Date: 2018-10-13 1:57 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: "Reid, Rebecca" <Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Fwd: Fraser River salmon fishing closure
Rebecca I know you have seen the e mail trail attached. Please see message from Bent Rods received today. Very genuine concerned sentiment that is shared by most within the Rec community. I am personally asking you to instruct your staff & C&P people to closely monitor the beach seining. This has to happen NOW as the remnants of the Thompson /Chilcotin fish are currently migrating. I know skeptics might suggest the fish ID was misinterpreted by the individual & we can again be told the fishery is closely monitored & mortality is low. Past studies & current observations refute those statements.
Last year the Beach Seine EO fishery reported 25 steelhead intercepted. That's 15% of the total hat reached spawning grounds. We can only guess at numbers intercepted in other legal & non legal net fisheries. I don't want to get into further e mail discussions on the issue & the generic DFO response. We have individuals within the rec community who suggest actions which could destroy the rapport we have established thru Peacemakers & other direct meetings with First Nations. We are not going to get into a war of words with First Nations as that is counter productive. We want to continue dialogue with our First Nations friends & hopefully expand thru perhaps a Fraser River Round Table. We have requested DFO support establishing that table but hear nothing.
I know you take conservation of endangered species very seriously. We need your as RDG to initiate the actions to save these steelhead & wild Thompson coho. Lets all stop the blame game & look at reality. The rec sector is totally committed to conservation & saving threatened stocks. The Fraser fishery is a tremendous Canadian heritage we must preserve for future generations. The constitutional rights of First Nations does not mean exclusivity to the resource. They must bear a significant responsibility for conservation of all species.
Rebecca I am sincerely reaching out to you in respect of your position & attempting to ensure these priceless Thompson steelhead can be saved. I honestly don't know what else to do.
An obvious DFO presence on the river & independent monitoring of by catch could help. That's a call I hope you can make immediately.
Yours in Conservation
Rod Clapton
BCFDF President
Co Chair Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance
---------
From: "Rebecca |Reid" <Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
To: "Rod Clapton"
Cc: "Andy Thomson" <Andrew.Thomson@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>, "Carlson, Mike" <Mike.Carlson@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>, "Fogliato, Cara" <Cara.Fogliato@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 3:54:45 PM
Subject: Re: Fraser River salmon fishing closure
Hello Rod - you are absolutely right that we do care about steelhead and conservation. Thank you for writing to me and sharing your concerns. I will be sure to discuss your e-mail with my enforcement, management, and species at risk staff to ensure this information is included in our operational planning.
Steelhead conservation is a significant priority for us and I can assure you we are making every effort to work with BC, indigenous groups and other partners on this important issue, including the rec sector.
Rebecca Reid
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You really aren't listen to what Dave is saying, Even with Fish farms removed without First Nations agreeing to stop fishing for endangered stocks thoes early fraser chinooks u used to love to fish for will never return in numbers sufficient for a recreational fishery to open. Nor will the SRKW have enough food to eat.
You also know that for DFO to stop the Seine chum FSC fishery they would be required to shut down all recreational fishing even out in the ocean and implement a 8 week closure window this would effectivly shut down rec fishing for pinks as well on the fraser. Fred and Rod don't want that they want rec fishing to be open so they can make money.
Their is years worth of court challenges that have set precedence for this.
The real solution is to have first nations agree to stop fishing not just whine to DFO about it. Cowichan tribes on the island have agreed to do this and the cowichan has been seeing increased returns since.
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You really aren't listen to what Dave is saying, Even with Fish farms removed without First Nations agreeing to stop fishing for endangered stocks thoes early fraser chinooks u used to love to fish for will never return in numbers sufficient for a recreational fishery to open. Nor will the SRKW have enough food to eat.
You also know that for DFO to stop the Seine chum FSC fishery they would be required to shut down all recreational fishing even out in the ocean and implement a 8 week closure window this would effectivly shut down rec fishing for pinks as well on the fraser. Fred and Rod don't want that they want rec fishing to be open so they can make money.
Their is years worth of court challenges that have set precedence for this.
The real solution is to have first nations agree to stop fishing not just whine to DFO about it. Cowichan tribes on the island have agreed to do this and the cowichan has been seeing increased returns since.
Thanks for your comments, hope you join and work with a group to come to a solution, if there is one. For me at 75 I have enough on my plate to do more than I am doing. I think you know what I am involved in, I think about 7 projects, I could list them but most people know, including looking after 6 or 7 FB pages with videos and pictures that take a bit of time. Of course I like to fish, hunt, play badminton and enjoy 8 soon to be 9 grandchildren, enough to start a ball team soon, maybe I could coach. ;D
Of course you may have a lot on your plate but as most on this site never post under their real name whitch is too bad as easy to say almost anything.
Also forgot to mention advisor to the Maple Leafs. ;D ;D ;D
Off for coffee now and maybe join the weekend warriors on the fishing grounds for an hour.
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maybe I could coach. ;D
Well this forum has probably helped you develop thick skin, you will be ready for any of today's parents as a coach. ;)
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Chris if you need to free up some time you can stop fighting fish farms and leave that up to the ENGOs. Theirs is about a 100 different ones fighting fish farms spending millions lobby and activists to get rid of them.
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Chris, nobody is asking you to personally solve this problem.
As mentioned, FN themselves can be the solution … all I am saying is you seem to be tight with a few FN elders who may or may not have some influence on how and when their respective band members fish. If that is the case simply suggesting to them they are losing the PR battle with this controversial beach seine fishery may be beneficial to all.
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Well this forum has probably helped you develop thick skin, you will be ready for any of today's parents as a coach. ;)
Done that as an coordinator for minor hockey and baseball for many years. Could right a book on that one, oh and for adults too.lol
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Chris if you need to free up some time you can stop fighting fish farms and leave that up to the ENGOs. Theirs is about a 100 different ones fighting fish farms spending millions lobby and activists to get rid of them.
Nope,will continue to do that for what time I have left. Have worked with Eddie and Alex since the Get Out Migration, I think around 8 years. Great people too with many others as well. Of course without the work of these people it would be a lot worse.
One day I may write a book one of, the success and failure of what I have worked at for many years.
Could write more but off to church now where I will pray for you too.
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Thanks Chris
even with fish farms gone were looking at like what a 10% increase in returns best case scenario? That's like what 10 more Thompson steelhead? That's about the same amount that was intercepted in just the test gillnets this year.
Some of our endangered runs need to double a few times over to be opened up again to recreational fishing or have healthy returns.
You wanna look up what happens with over exploitation lookup rivers inlet sockeye. was at one point the second largest return of sockeye on this coast.
Climate change and ignoring the over exploitation of wild salmon will be salmons down fall not fish farms.
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Thanks Chris
even with fish farms gone were looking at like what a 10% increase in returns best case scenario? That's like what 10 more Thompson steelhead? That's about the same amount that was intercepted in just the test gillnets this year.
Some of our endangered runs need to double a few times over to be opened up again to recreational fishing or have healthy returns.
You wanna look up what happens with over exploitation lookup rivers inlet sockeye. was at one point the second largest return of sockeye on this coast.
Climate change and ignoring the over exploitation of wild salmon will be salmons down fall not fish farms.
Of course I know what you speak of, it is several causes but you put them all together and that is why we are in trouble. including the rec sector. If you read the post on rivers conditions I posted this AM you will see so many uneducated anglers out there. Flossing of course does not help as I have written about for years as it brings out the worse of some people. As someone that has fished the Vedder since the seventies I see how things have changed for the worse. That is maybe why Dave gave up angling. Many of us older guys keep saying "We have seen the best of it'
Not sure if you work for FOC but it has not done the greatest job of management of our fishery but one should maybe point our fingers at many levels of government who are FOC masters, remember the Atlantic cod scenario for example/
Time for a nap.
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https://www.seawestnews.com/the-cost-of-farming-fish-on-land/
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https://www.seawestnews.com/the-cost-of-farming-fish-on-land/
Its weird bob but the public generally accepts the destruction of habitat and wildlife on land, yet for some reason does not extend that belief to the ocean.
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https://livingoceans.org/action/sea-lice-out-control?fbclid=IwAR15CWmdr2KsPQMkfxPVr0HrriwBtDqwDQ9CZCXs6tS-CYai3r392PU8_Kk
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https://www.comoxvalleyrecord.com/opinion/letter-are-salmon-farms-part-of-a-government-agenda-to-destroy-and-replace-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR2O6Usndcr0Oizx5gRY9R1JOdImcl7fSiUswxUMVduVTTpVaaZ_-jsLGAc
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https://www.comoxvalleyrecord.com/opinion/letter-are-salmon-farms-part-of-a-government-agenda-to-destroy-and-replace-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR2O6Usndcr0Oizx5gRY9R1JOdImcl7fSiUswxUMVduVTTpVaaZ_-jsLGAc
IS our wild salmon harvest sustainable?
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IS our wild salmon harvest sustainable?
Other than a few sockeye stocks every 4th year, the answer is no. If people will insist on wild salmon they will be getting them from Alaska, and a large % of those are questionably "wild"
We are finished as a race of hunter-gatherers ... farming is the only way to feed people now.
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I could pick apart that link about a thousand ways. It says Salmon in Scotland have went extinct in Scotland because of fish farms. Yet more and more pink salmon are showing up in Scotland each year. In Chile Chinook salmon are thriving in the wild after introductions from fish farms. In the arctic salmon are starting to expend their range.
Me thinks the climate change around the world is probably most responsible for the changes we are seeing.
Alaska salmon returns are cupcakes this year with exception to Bristol Bay returns . 70%+ of the Bristol Bay sockeye population rears in the Bering sea. Guess where Chilko and Adams also rear? a good portion of them spend time in the Bering Sea. The bearing sea has also seen some of the poorest King crab harvests in recent years. King crab specifically like to stay in waters of about 4C. Cod populations in Alaska have recently crashed
Almo's statement
"It is clear to me, open net salmon farms are destroying all of the world’s incredible wild salmon; each tearing down a massive riparian ecology with it."
Is pretty darn ignorant
IMO what Almo is doing is hindering efforts to find the actual cause of diminishing salmon returns,
Have a read
https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060104389
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Harvesting millions of wild salmon a year, then blame fish farms for their decline....
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Chris did I just read you bonked a chum? Despite the fact that chum are in some serious trouble this year?
Yet you wonder why wild stocks are declining.
Haha! Didn't you read the Chilliwack is the only river with an "abundance" of chums? Lets hope so ... they are going to be slaughtered.
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I emailed them to ask why the wack was still open the repligh.
"In addition to overall low returns of Chum this year, info. from info. from FIA Stock Assessment staff are indicating that none of the terminal areas are showing any abundance of Chum; the only exception to this is Chilliwack where it is looking like we will make brood targets."
Apparently abundance is barely making brood targets
makes you feel all warm and fuzzy dont it
Sorry chris i removed my post i didn't mean to single you out!
Haha! Didn't you read the Chilliwack is the only river with an "abundance" of chums? Lets hope so ... they are going to be slaughtered.
The sad part is sportties will kill them for the same reasons they are pointing their fingers at the FN fishery. For the roe, Sturg bait and dog food....
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I emailed them to ask why the wack was still open the repligh.
"In addition to overall low returns of Chum this year, info. from info. from FIA Stock Assessment staff are indicating that none of the terminal areas are showing any abundance of Chum; the only exception to this is Chilliwack where it is looking like we will make brood targets."
Apparently abundance is barely making brood targets
makes you feel all warm and fuzzy dont it
Sorry chris i removed my post i didn't mean to single you out!
The sad part is sportties will kill them for the same reasons they are pointing their fingers at the FN fishery. For the roe, Sturg bait and dog food....
No we enjoy them and use them and are very good smoked too.There was a lot of chum showing this AM and I noticed the side channels have good numbers too.
As well what we take is a minimal amount in the few weeks they run. So many other issues that cause their smaller numbers than in the past, most of know what they are.
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http://shuswappassion.ca/shuswap/what-happened-to-this-years-salmon-run/?fbclid=IwAR3GFWwB44ECGpQvzjSrsblaiLOWB0SXqO3ZacguUfcq6pcM3c1Kv6fOQHM
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https://globalnews.ca/video/4617935/new-reports-calls-on-fish-farms-to-do-more-to-fight-sea-lice
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http://shuswappassion.ca/shuswap/what-happened-to-this-years-salmon-run/?fbclid=IwAR3GFWwB44ECGpQvzjSrsblaiLOWB0SXqO3ZacguUfcq6pcM3c1Kv6fOQHM
The watershed watch is really pushing for terminal fisheries and you can see why, Most of the adams run was harvested in the ocean before they even had a clue on the run strength,
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/08/Sea-Shepherd-Documents-Wild-Fish-Trapped/?fbclid=IwAR3woFk50epnkl2EHIEWLQNNkmEMs-QT1kj1rT-Cfyi4kwzzToKggqPLuGs
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https://www.seawestnews.com/scientist-refutes-wfc-claims-regarding-farmed-salmon/
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https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/08/Sea-Shepherd-Documents-Wild-Fish-Trapped/?fbclid=IwAR3woFk50epnkl2EHIEWLQNNkmEMs-QT1kj1rT-Cfyi4kwzzToKggqPLuGs
I always laugh when looking at photos of general population shots of, in this case herring near a salmon farm(in the article), and in other cases sockeye fry, and the fish look fantastic and healthy not a single lice on them or even a blemish. Its a challenge for activists to present two different topic without contradicting themselves. On one hand farms are lice infested and rampant with disease but when they want to show wild fish "trapped" or near a salmon farm the wild fish look immaculate. Hmmmm.
Just an observation.
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https://youtu.be/72Lqrdb-Ebg Filmed this last night, 150 people honored Eddie for all his work.
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I always laugh when looking at photos of general population shots of, in this case herring near a salmon farm(in the article), and in other cases sockeye fry, and the fish look fantastic and healthy not a single lice on them or even a blemish. Its a challenge for activists to present two different topic without contradicting themselves. On one hand farms are lice infested and rampant with disease but when they want to show wild fish "trapped" or near a salmon farm the wild fish look immaculate. Hmmmm.
Just an observation.
Hard to believe with all the negative fishery management decisions lately why fish farms are still thought by some to be the reason for wild salmon declivity.
As a past poster said ... if you want to save wild salmon, stop killing them.
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Hard to believe with all the negative fishery management decisions lately why fish farms are still thought by some to be the reason for wild salmon declivity.
As a past poster said ... if you want to save wild salmon, stop killing them.
Many of us feel the rec sector takes a small percentage of the harvest, no?
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Depends on the allocation
Rec sector is allocated for pink/chum/sockeye 5% of the Canadian Commercial TAC
For Chinook and Coho recreation has priority after FSC. Except on the west coast of vancouver island where the FN their though a recent Supreme Court decision goes FSC/ FN Commercial then REC then all commercial. Rec takes i think the biggest amount of Chinook and Coho on the west coast. All though its spilt pretty close split 1/3 REC , 1/3 COMM, 1/3 FSC
The problem isn't anyone sector or individual.
its the aggregate of all sectors streaming WE WANT MORE HARVEST.
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Depends on the allocation
Rec sector is allocated for pink/chum/sockeye 5% of the Canadian Commercial TAC
For Chinook and Coho recreation has priority after FSC. Except on the west coast of vancouver island where the FN their though a recent Supreme Court decision goes FSC/ FN Commercial then REC then all commercial. Rec takes i think the biggest amount of Chinook and Coho on the west coast. All though its spilt pretty close split 1/3 REC , 1/3 COMM, 1/3 FSC
The problem isn't anyone sector or individual.
its the aggregate of all sectors streaming WE WANT MORE HARVEST.
Thanks very much for this.
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Another reason we need to save our wild salmon, I know Dave loves the eagles.https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/incredible-sight-thousands-of-bald-eagles-flock-to-b-c-valley-1.4172092?fbclid=IwAR2iZicZ6oT7mrKRsiWQ0UBRGJbbSQ3pICf3gquFMflUd44S0jBB76vh2w4
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Another reason we need to save our wild salmon, I know Dave loves the eagles.https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/incredible-sight-thousands-of-bald-eagles-flock-to-b-c-valley-1.4172092?fbclid=IwAR2iZicZ6oT7mrKRsiWQ0UBRGJbbSQ3pICf3gquFMflUd44S0jBB76vh2w4
This is another good reason to make sure we have a healthy chum population.
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This is another good reason to make sure we have a healthy chum population.
For sure, the eagles are returning to the Harrison River to feed on the salmon right now,the annual Eagle festival coming up this month. They are putting transmitters on some eagles to see where they go and come from. Will be interesting data.
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I wonder if this will draw out the PAP gang as they have given up or gone into hibernation like the bears that need our wild salmon before hibernation. https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.com/2018/10/sustainable-salmon-future-well-no.html?fbclid=IwAR1CcRRHt5MeFFMpkfFwpBJq3J98S0n8OwVJEbyaimZkvZptyIMOyurXNM8
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I wonder if this will draw out the PAP gang as they have given up or gone into hibernation like the bears that need our wild salmon before hibernation. https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.com/2018/10/sustainable-salmon-future-well-no.html?fbclid=IwAR1CcRRHt5MeFFMpkfFwpBJq3J98S0n8OwVJEbyaimZkvZptyIMOyurXNM8
Keep blaming fish farms ...
https://www.terracestandard.com/news/researchers-on-state-of-b-c-salmon-in-warm-water-blob/#
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Keep blaming fish farms ...
https://www.terracestandard.com/news/researchers-on-state-of-b-c-salmon-in-warm-water-blob/#
Thanks Dave, looks like you are the last survivor here lol
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Thanks Dave, looks like you are the last survivor here lol
Just keeping you honest ;D I known you think if it's said often enough it becomes fact.
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I guess SS has his wings clipped by his higher ups from FOC and FB is no longer employed by the FF industry. The rest, have seen the errors of their ways. :D
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Just keeping you honest ;D I known you think if it's said often enough it becomes fact.
You hit the nail on the head there Dave.
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Just keeping you honest ;D I known you think if it's said often enough it becomes fact.
Do you think that they have anything new to report? I keep reading the same press releases over and over but it’s all produced by the anti-common sense zealots. I guess I should post a link to another “news” release to “prove” my point but it just seems to be too repetitive.
I just saw another A&W commercial and it made me think, isn’t hamburger “plant based”? Aren’t cows made from plants?
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Do you think that they have anything new to report? I keep reading the same press releases over and over but it’s all produced by the anti-common sense zealots. I guess I should post a link to another “news” release to “prove” my point but it just seems to be too repetitive.
I just saw another A&W commercial and it made me think, isn’t hamburger “plant based”? Aren’t cows made from plants?
Well, if there is anything new, they aren't reporting it. It's just too easy for some with various agendas to blame salmon farms, when all the science and, as you say, common sense, points to far bigger problems.
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The ENGO's move with news cycles it's the best way to get donations, They almost all switched to fighting to save the whales when they seen the type of dollars that a save the whale campaign could bring.
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Our work may be paying off I guess that is why the PAP has not posted for some time, except Dave. :D :D
https://www.cheknews.ca/province-to-announce-changes-to-salmon-farms-in-the-broughton-archipelago-517042/?fbclid=IwAR2z08wbuJfC769pwoUBeIdKh2r1lK4b_vOUiZA6acCs-i5kmDOei3-ztDs
Dec. 13, 2018
Office of the Premier
MEDIA ADVISORY
VICTORIA - Media are invited for an update on Broughton-area government-to-government discussions.
Join Premier John Horgan; Lana Popham, B.C.'s Minister of Agriculture; Jonathan Wilkinson, federal Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Coast Guard; Indigenous leaders from Kwikwasut'inuxw Haxwa'mis, 'Namgis and Mamalilikulla First Nations; and aquaculture industry representatives; as they announce a historic decision regarding the future of salmon farming in the Broughton region.
Event Date: Friday, Dec. 14, 2018
Location:
Parliament Buildings
Legislative Library and Press Theatre
Victoria
Times (Pacific time):
9 a.m: Technical briefing in the Press Theatre
10 a.m.: Announcement in the Legislative Library
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If they can boot fish farms off their traditional territory
what do you think they can do to recreational fishermen on their traditional territory?
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Fish farms in Broughton Archipelago to be phased out by 2023
https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/fish-farms-in-broughton-archipelago-to-be-phased-out-by-2023-1.23537659
...about time.
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Fish farms in Broughton Archipelago to be phased out by 2023
https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/fish-farms-in-broughton-archipelago-to-be-phased-out-by-2023-1.23537659
...about time.
Not a science based removal, A traditional territory removal.
The writing was on the wall for farms in this area, Its a know area where smolts go missing (PSF confirmed), First nations don't want them there and they are in particularly high density in this area.
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Statement from Minister Wilkinson on British Columbia recommendations for aquaculture in the Broughton Archipelago
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...e-in-the-broughton-archipelago-702789712.html
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If they can boot fish farms off their traditional territory
what do you think they can do to recreational fishermen on their traditional territory?
I have always echoed a similar sentiment to other industries. When one supports shutting down of an industry under controversial science in the name of the precautionary principle this action empowers the same action to other industries ie, whale watching, sport fishing, etc., free of concrete evidence. Carful what you wish for because you are empowering as system which picks a choses as it pleases.
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I have always echoed a similar sentiment to other industries. When one supports shutting down of an industry under controversial science in the name of the precautionary principle this action empowers the same action to other industries ie, whale watching, sport fishing, etc., free of concrete evidence. Carful what you wish for because you are empowering as system which picks a choses as it pleases.
Beautifully worded
Thank you
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Statement from Minister Wilkinson on British Columbia recommendations for aquaculture in the Broughton Archipelago
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...e-in-the-broughton-archipelago-702789712.html
Link isn't working.
We pro farmers have always said this would be a FN decision, and imo it's a good one, as it seems to open the door for farms on pro FN territories. Everyone wins and we can now be assured wild salmon will make a remarkable recovery ;D
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-fish-farms-broughton-archipelago-1.4946570
"Currently, there are up to 600 people working on fish farms in the Broughton area. Both companies said they don't expect major job losses, as they move production to other areas."
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Link isn't working.
We pro farmers have always said this would be a FN decision, and imo it's a good one, as it seems to open the door for farms on pro FN territories. Everyone wins and we can now be assured wild salmon will make a remarkable recovery ;D
VANCOUVER, Dec. 14, 2018 /CNW/ - Protecting ocean health is a priority to Canadians and the Government of Canada. We have a collective responsibility to ensure that fish and their habitat are protected for future generations, and we take this responsibility very seriously. This is why earlier this week, we announced the Government of Canada's approach to enhance the environmental sustainability of the aquaculture sector. This approach includes: a study on the alternative technologies for aquaculture, including land and sea-based closed containment technology, moving towards an area-based approach to aquaculture management, placing greater emphasis on the precautionary principle and creating a single comprehensive set of regulations, the General Aquaculture Regulations.
Today, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast, the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson is issuing the following statement on the recommendations made today by a steering committee comprised of the Province of British Columbia, Namgis, Kwikwasutinuxw Haxwa'mis and Mamalilikulla First Nations, and the aquaculture industry that is focused on fish farming in the Broughton Archipelago:
"We commend the work the Province of British Columbia has done in collaboration with Indigenous partners and industry. The committee developed unanimous recommendations to ensure that aquaculture in BC is managed in a way that protects our oceans, our wild pacific salmon, and considers and engages Indigenous knowledge and concerns. We look forward to reviewing their recommendations regarding land tenures for existing aquaculture sites in the Broughton Archipelago and working with the Province of BC and other parties going forward.
The work of the steering committee was in large part inspired by concerns of potential impacts to wild salmon from farms located on wild salmon migration routes. The announcement I made earlier this week to put greater emphasis on the precautionary principle was inspired by similar concerns.
We will work with the Province of BC, Indigenous leaders, industry and environmental groups to address the steering committee's recommendations in a manner that is consistent with our new approach to aquaculture announced earlier this week.
Along with our partners, we will ensure aquaculture is managed in an environmentally responsible way, one that protects our oceans and wild salmon. Our efforts are fully consistent with the significant efforts and investments we are making to protect and restore wild Pacific salmon stocks. Such work includes the recently announced British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation Fund."
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Link isn't working.
We pro farmers have always said this would be a FN decision, and imo it's a good one, as it seems to open the door for farms on pro FN territories. Everyone wins and we can now be assured wild salmon will make a remarkable recovery ;D
If pink salmon in the Broughton Archipelago don't recover im gonna be pissed!
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If pink salmon in the Broughton Archipelago don't recover im gonna be pissed!
;)
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The work is paying off lets see what Bob and SS say, very little when they and others thought they had the upper hand in this issue. Of course Dave will have some excuses or try and blame someone else.
BREAKING: 17 fish farms are to be removed from the Broughton Archipelago off the Northeast side of Vancouver Island; six in the short term, and the remaining 11 over the next five years.
This is a victory for wild salmon and all who treasure them. For the first time since this dirty industry washed over B.C.'s coast over 30 years ago, the tide is finally turning. We commend the hard work and leadership of Chief Chamberlin, Premier Horgan, and many others from the ‘Namgis, Kwikwasut’inuxw Haxwa’mis, and Mamalilikulla Nations, and the B.C. Government who made this happen. Now it is up to the feds to follow suit.
This victory would not have been possible without the fierce backing of Indigenous activists and leaders from the Broughton and all over B.C., and the tens of thousands of people from around this province who have stood up in defence of wild salmon.
Watershed Watch was honoured to provide science advice and technical support to the Broughton area Nations in their negotiations with the Province, and look forward to assisting further in the implementation of the joint panel's recommendations. This is only the beginning. Scores of farms are still spewing viruses and parasites onto to our wild salmon and we will not rest until our wild fish are safe.
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The science is only controversial as there are differences of opinion. That's a normal part of science. Despite such differences governments can still determine policy. The need for constant large doses of anti-lice pesticides is a good enough reason to act.
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Went to Morton's website to see if there was more information and saw this interesting other article.
For those asking how fish farms harm local salmon - disease, lice, pollution:
Federal Government invested in Marine Harvest,
protects company’s right to farm fish infected with virus killing Chinook salmon.
The Canadian Pension Plan is one of the top 10 investors in the Norwegian salmon farming company Marine Harvest*, as the federal Minister of Fisheries defends the right of this company to ignore Fishery laws of Canada.
In 2013, Marine Harvest and the Minister of Fisheries were sued to stop the transfer of farm salmon infected with piscine orthoreovirus, PRV, from a hatchery near Sayward, BC into marine net pens off Port Hardy. The case was won in 2015, with the court ruling that the Minister of Fisheries must screen all farm salmon for PRV, as a disease agent. As per section 56 of the Fishery General Regulations, fish infected with a “disease agent” are prohibited from transfer into Canadian waters.
However, the Minister refuses to acknowledge this decision (2015 FC 575) and was sued again by Alexandra Morton and the ‘Namgis First Nation of Alert Bay to stop the transfer of PRV into their territory. These cases were heard together in September, decision pending. Marine Harvest revealed that all but one of their hatcheries is PRV-positive and thus their company profits would be “severely” damaged if they were prohibited from farming with the PRV-infected fish.
This means that the Minister is defending Marine Harvest’s right to operate outside the laws of Canada, to protect the profitability of a company that the federal CPP profits from, even as DFO scientists report that the virus at issue is causing acute disease in Chinook salmon and half the Chinook salmon in BC are now in decline.
December 2017, scientists published on the spread of PRV to wild salmon exposed to salmon farms, and one month later, senior DFO scientists, reported that while PRV causes a transient heart wasting disease in Atlantic salmon, it triggers a more acute disease in Chinook salmon causing their red blood cells to rupture en masse resulting in organ failure.
“It has been hard for the lawyers, scientists and environmentalist to understand why Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson is using our tax dollars to fight DFO science and the law when half of BC’s Chinook salmon are in decline,” says independent biologist Alexandra Morton, “learning that the federal government’s CPP is one of the biggest global investors in Marine Harvest, puts the Minister’s defense of this company in a new light.”
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The work is paying off lets see what Bob and SS say, very little when they and others thought they had the upper hand in this issue. Of course Dave will have some excuses or try and blame someone else.
Read my post, I'm not blaming anyone, I like the decision. There is no excuse.
You need to understand these farms will be moved, not removed.
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I heard a reliable and authoritative report that the farms are being moved to Bigger Saskatchewan! Not only salmon will be raised but also Kielbasa!!
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I heard a reliable and authoritative report that the farms are being moved to Bigger Saskatchewan! Not only salmon will be raised but also Kielbasa!!
Ah, but how would farmed Kielbasa effect wild Saskatchewan sausage links? Expect a gofundme page soon so activists can fight this!
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The only place you could put a fish farm in saskatoon and be profitable would be in a potash mine...
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Ah, but how would farmed Kielbasa effect wild Saskatchewan sausage links? Expect a gofundme page soon so activists can fight this!
Getting a bit sketchy now Dave as the coffin is now closing, no wonder most of the PAP gang has now gone from this page with Dave trying to hang in. ;) ;D
http://epaper.vancouversun.com/@terry_b/csb_8p85u7Ae7YLJEtS0cliU3Vu2c_mqd_FRCgDNC8KtJAAjZIYrBz3We0PT3RBdM31h
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Getting a bit sketchy now Dave as the coffin is now closing, no wonder most of the PAP gang has now gone from this page with Dave trying to hang in. ;) ;D
http://epaper.vancouversun.com/@terry_b/csb_8p85u7Ae7YLJEtS0cliU3Vu2c_mqd_FRCgDNC8KtJAAjZIYrBz3We0PT3RBdM31h
Chris I think your missing something....but thats okay if this is a victory for you, then perfect
HINT..look what the caption says under the picture
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Its interesting to watch activists claim a victory here. I think they are missing whats really going on here completely.
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Its interesting to watch activists claim a victory here. I think they are missing whats really going on here completely.
I have a theory on this.. My theory is the funding has dried up for the ENGO's and now they need to claim victory so they can move onto other things like SRKW that will drive donations.
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Its interesting to watch activists claim a victory here. I think they are missing whats really going on here completely.
Absolutely, but you are seeing the far bigger picture ;) It's going to take a few more of these to really impact sports fishing, but it will.
Just sticking to this decision, it seems to me everyone wins. Farms are removed from the territories of those who don't want them and, from wild salmon migratory routes, as specified by Cohen. Farms will be relocated to suitable sites where other FN can be employed, and Horgan claims fish farming will likely expand due to this legislation, so Marine Harvest, Cermaq and all their employees are happy.
Chris, I really don't see how you think fish farming has lost, but as wmy says, good for you!
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https://www.seawestnews.com/a-new-era-for-salmon-farming-in-british-columbia/
Not over yet Chris. You still have a job/hobby to do. :)
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https://www.seawestnews.com/a-new-era-for-salmon-farming-in-british-columbia/
Not over yet Chris. You still have a job/hobby to do. :)
Good to see you back and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/Steering_Committee_Broughton_Recommendations.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3tsPvgFN76e4GlyvVdWNYlzKlNMq7ptOyyg1ByBV5CAxKZOHeQFiIHAEk
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https://news.gov.bc.ca/files/Steering_Committee_Broughton_Recommendations.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3tsPvgFN76e4GlyvVdWNYlzKlNMq7ptOyyg1ByBV5CAxKZOHeQFiIHAEk
A merry Christmas and a healthy and prosperous new year to you and your family Chris. Thank you for the link. It is nice to see the relocation plan instead of the total get out mind set for a change. :)
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I agree Bob, a new era has begun. I never thought I would say this but John Horgan has impressed me with the way this was handled - kudos to him.
Merry Christmas to you,Chris, aquapaloosa, wildmanyeah and all the others who participate in this thread. We now know farms are not going anywhere, and will likely expand, but the siting criteria will be drastically different, with the well being of wild salmon and agreeable FN participation being paramount. There will still be issues, but I believe everyone is better off today.
Who's betting Almo retires?
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Merry Christmas all,
Hope farms are going no where other wise salmon may cost more then this...
Rare tyee salmon arrives in SA
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/thesourcesa/rare-tyee-salmon-bought-by-angelakis-brothers-snapped-up-by-andre-orsini-for-orso-his-european-restaurant-in-kensington/news-story/130e8cae4f189603fe784ef4af730aca
IF you like your salmon rare, this may be the fish of your dreams.
Angelakis Brothers has bought a tyee salmon, one of the rarest fish in the world, from New Zealand. The fish weigh more than 13kg, and are coveted by high-end restaurants around the globe.
“The fish is very rare, one of just 40 in the world, and three were sent to Australia,” says Alex Knoll, from Angelakis Brothers. “Their longer life cycle means the flavour and oil profile…is more developed.
“Nobu Restaurant (Melbourne) has one and we are getting the other.Andre Ursini bought the tyee salmon for his new European restaurant, Orso, in Kensington.
“We would normally sell this type of salmon for $80/kg as a whole fish, or $150/kg as fillets,” Alex says.
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there are one or 2 rivers in NZ that have transplanted runs of chinook though they rarely get to any size nor are they terribly numerous
FWIW I mostly avoid farmed salmon. Sometimes I get some given to me. It tastes ok and is much better than it was years ago. Still not wild chinook or sockeye quality of flavour IMO.
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https://www.ladysmithchronicle.com/business/b-c-salmon-farm-agreement-a-milestone-for-indigenous-rights/?fbclid=IwAR3J_iQGGzrE9zouCjLmth5qv2r1VxN5s1dfi3Ki8k4OVjiLA1JFv6uxO4k
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https://www.ladysmithchronicle.com/business/b-c-salmon-farm-agreement-a-milestone-for-indigenous-rights/?fbclid=IwAR3J_iQGGzrE9zouCjLmth5qv2r1VxN5s1dfi3Ki8k4OVjiLA1JFv6uxO4k
Just one step closer to this:
B.C. sport fishing agreement yet another milestone for Indigenous rights.
Carful what you wish for.
I find it quite entertaining how NGO's are calming a victory here. What they are essentially doing is empowering small individual indigenous groups to say ya or nay to all thing retaliated to the environment and industry. This includes sport fishing.
The irony is this will blow up in NGO's faces in the future however sport fishing will always suffer from this. I sometimes feel the canadian west coast should just start ranching salmon and call it a day for truly "wild" salmon.
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The writing's on the wall with Bill C-262. If it gets passed, Without first nations consent we won't be fishing.
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If there won't be fishing then there won't be fish farms either - only a small minority support fish farms.
I think that having to move the farms from Broughton may be the final nail in the coffin for fish farms.
Imagine that after fish farms are moved out over the next few years and salmon stocks recover.
This will be the final proof that fish farms are damaging wild stocks and DFO won't be able to ignore it anymore.
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Haha, you must have found Chris's stash ;D
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If there won't be fishing then there won't be fish farms either - only a small minority support fish farms.
I think that having to move the farms from Broughton may be the final nail in the coffin for fish farms.
Imagine that after fish farms are moved out over the next few years and salmon stocks recover.
This will be the final proof that fish farms are damaging wild stocks and DFO won't be able to ignore it anymore.
Maybe we should put a bunch of salmon farms on the migration routs of the skeena river salmon and see if the numbers crash....
Oh, they have crashed on their own already without the presence of salmon farms. Hmmmm.
See what I did there?
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I was there too and will have my pictures and videos up when I return from the badminton tournament in Campbell River.https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/b-c-first-nation-files-lawsuit-to-evict-fish-farms-from-territorial-waters-1.4251339?fbclid=IwAR0tMuLvSVXW59WbJAOIfJWfApKeIVLi3uXT-lqTmCFk30hxeZCQj7YF2mE
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I was there too and will have my pictures and videos up when I return from the badminton tournament in Campbell River.https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/b-c-first-nation-files-lawsuit-to-evict-fish-farms-from-territorial-waters-1.4251339?fbclid=IwAR0tMuLvSVXW59WbJAOIfJWfApKeIVLi3uXT-lqTmCFk30hxeZCQj7YF2mE
Trust me Chris you do not want them to win this case
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A Tyee article on the same subject:
https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/01/11/First-Nation-Lawsuit-Fish-Farm-Licences/
Jack Woodward, a Campbell River lawyer representing the First Nation, said his clients now have three outstanding legal challenges to the fish farm industry and the way it has invaded territory.
One launched against the province last year claims that provincial fish farm tenures infringe upon aboriginal title.
A second is seeking a court injunction that would prevent Marine Harvest and Cermaq from applying to renew other provincial licences in their territory.
And the third is the federal challenge.
“A win on any one of these cases would end fish farm licences for Atlantic salmon on the coast,” said Woodward.
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Trust me Chris you do not want them to win this case
Exactly. It opens the door for so much ... timber, mining, any development ,hunting, fishing ... pretty much anything happening on FN territorial land will be open for discussion, and, at a cost. The lawyer era is just starting.
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Trust me Chris you do not want them to win this case
Not worried one bit.
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Look if the science comes out and points to all the bad things that fish farms do and they get removed that one thing. I think most could get on board with that.
However, to remove them based on First Nation claims is far different. First Nations could come out tomorrow and say that its a unjust infringement on their right that they do not have a C/V Steelhead Quota. That they have the right to fish ahead of recreational fishermen for all fish species. They could also say that the C/V fishery is now closed to all recreational anglers. Angling on our traditional territory is banned, The recreational fishing community has not received our consent.
I'm surprised this needs to be spelled out for you have you not been keeping up with current events? Maybe spend some time and go read Bob Hootons blog...
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Look if the science comes out and points to all the bad things that fish farms do and they get removed that one thing. I think most could get on board with that.
However, to remove them based on First Nation claims is far different. First Nations could come out tomorrow and say that its a unjust infringement on their right that they do not have a C/V Steelhead Quota. That they have the right to fish ahead of recreational fishermen for all fish species. They could also say that the C/V fishery is now closed to all recreational anglers. Angling on our traditional territory is banned, The recreational fishing community has not received our consent.
I'm surprised this needs to be spelled out for you have you not been keeping up with current events? Maybe spend some time and go read Bob Hootons blog...
I donot see it happening but anyway we will not live long enough to see who is right, as it would take a long time to come to pass.Right now it is important to be saving our fish stocks for the future generations. I know the PAPG said what is happening now would not be. Watch for my videos once I get back home to see the whole story on this latest news.
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You live in your own little world Chris ::)
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There is more and more experience that if FNs get both a say and benefits in various kinds of resource use, they are more inclined to opt in than out.
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There is more and more experience that if FNs get both a say and benefits in various kinds of resource use, they are more inclined to opt in than out.
Agreed, and I do think we will be seeing FN partnerships with sports fishing developing soon. If FN are successful in purchasing the TMP, the sky will be the limit.
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Agreed, and I do think we will be seeing FN partnerships with sports fishing developing soon. If FN are successful in purchasing the TMP, the sky will be the limit.
And that will be the end of green groups using canadian indigenous groups to do their dirty work.
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Traditionally First Nations were much more involved in the C/V steelhead harvest, from both the FSC perspective and the sports sector. It wasn't uncommon to hire a first nation guide to take you up river on horseback. It also wasn't uncommon for them to set nylon nets in both the fraser and C/V in the winter to harvest steelhead.
If the Stolo wanted to they could get a quota tomorrow, That's just a fact. They could probably even get a commercial quota as the SCC has ruled that the government is not justified in putting a recreation harvest ahead of FN FSC or FSC commercial.
Add this fish farm case to the list and have the SCC set a president over traditional territories and the sky's the limit. The future is here chris it will happen in our lifetime.
Paragraph 8 (g) Addressing the General Unjustified Infringement in Priority
in Allocation
The Court also found that Canada unjustifiably infringed the Five Nations’
exercising of their rights by giving priority in allocation to the recreational fishery
over their rights.
To address this unjustified infringement, DFO proposes the following remedy:
Where possible, DFO will, as a general principle take, the Five Nations’
commercial allocations as shares of the Canadian Total Allowable Catch (CTAC)
(i.e. after FSC and First Nations Treaty Allocations) in fisheries that have a
CTAC. By taking their share from the CTAC instead of the commercial TAC, DFO
provides the Five Nations with access that is not affected by the access provided
to the recreational fishery
For Coho, as there is no TAC to provide a share, DFO will provide the Five
Nations with a fixed allocation with priority over the recreational fishery. This
allocation will not be varied unless there is a conservation concern.
In the longer term, DFO is conducting a broader review of the entire Salmon
Allocation Policy to reconsider how allocations are assigned between all
Aboriginal rights holders and stakeholders. In the conduct of this review, DFO will
also address the court’s general direction on the Five Nations’ priority in
allocation over the recreational fishery in that policy.
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And that will be the end of green groups using canadian indigenous groups to do their dirty work.
That will be a grand day.
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And that will be the end of green groups using canadian indigenous groups to do their dirty work.
I would think so also but the elected chiefs and the hereditary chiefs will have to work together. Sad to say but I do not see that happening any time soon.
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I would think so also but the elected chiefs and the hereditary chiefs will have to work together. Sad to say but I do not see that happening any time soon.
Sad part is most people don't understand first nation politics. Hereditary chiefs making a stink about issues is typically because they are trying to get support from their band members so they get votes for future council positions.
It our world we would call in the official opposition. Media fails in making this clear in a lot of instances because they dont understand First Nation politics.
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That will be a grand day.
Love ya brother but how about eliminating the self serving bullshjt and propaganda the feed lots put out. If you think all of that is gospel, well........
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Nova, you're back!! Hope all is well!
feedlots again, lol!
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Love ya brother but how about eliminating the self serving bullshjt and propaganda the feed lots put out. If you think all of that is gospel, well........
I have read Dave's posts for the last couple of years and he certainly does not take the "feedlot propaganda" as gospel. However if we did just stick to science and not the social media sensation stuff the anti fish farm people would have very little to share.
As for ENGO's using First Nations to do their dirty work, First Nations have a name for it its called redwashing
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/environmentalists-red-wash-their-fight-against-pipeline-first-nation-chief-says
https://www.seawestnews.com/when-the-salmon-dont-return-they-have-a-name-for-it/
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I got as far as the offer of security jobs. Wouldn't it be much more beneficial to offer trades training as a carrot instead of low paying security McJobs?
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-salmon-farming-lawsuit-1.4976042
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-salmon-farming-lawsuit-1.4976042
Chris did you read the court document? it has more to do with salmon harvesting rights then aquacultural ones. Looks to me like they are asking for similar to what the 5 nations got on WCVI.
Chris thank you soo much for this, this proves what i have said all along that this invovles more then just fish farms.
Relief sought
1. The plaintiff claims the following relief:
a. In respect of eulachon:
i. A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
harvest eulachon for food, ceremonial and social purposes within the
area depicted on the map in Appendix A (the ?Rights Area?);
ii. A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
exchange eulachon for other goods on a limited basis and to harvest
eulachon for that purpose within the Rights Area;
A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
manage the eulachon ?sheries within the Rights Area;
b. In respect of Coho, Chum (aka Chinook (aka ?Spring?), Pink and
Sockeye salmon (collectively the ?Sahnon Species?):
i. A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
harvest the Salmon Species for food, ceremonial and social purposes
within the Rights Area;
ii. A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
exchange the Salmon Species for money or goods on a limited basis
and to harvest the Salmon Species for that purpose within the Rights
Area;
A declaration that the Dzawada?enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
manage the Salmon Species ?sheries within the Rights Area;
c. A declaration that the Defendant has infringed the Dzawada?enuxw?s
Aboriginal rights in respect of eulachon by issuing each of the following
Fin?sh aquaculture licenses (collectively the ?Fin?sh Licences?):
i. License No. AQFF 115202 2016/2022 Burdwood Group, Raleigh
Passage, issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.;
ii. License No. AQFF 115208 2016/2022 Cecil Island, Greenway
Sound, issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.;
License No. AQFF 115201 2016/2022 Cliff Bay Simoom Sound
Wishart Peninsula, issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.;
iv. License No. AQFF 115213 2016/2022 Cypress Hrbr, Harbour PT,
Sutlej Channel, issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.;
v. License No. AQFF 115309 2016/2022 Glacial Falls, Watson Cove,
Tribune Channel, issued to Marine Harvest Canada Inc.;
vi. License No. AQFF 115209 2016/2022 Maude Island, SE
Broughton 15., issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.;
vii. License No. AQFF 115233 2016/2022 Midsummer Island, Spring
Passage, issued to Marine Harvest Canada Inc.;
License No. AQFF 115316 2016/2022 Potts Bay, Midsummer
Island, issued to Marine Harvest Canada Inc.;
ix. License No. AQFF 115214 2016/2022 Sir Edmund Bay, NE Shore
Boughton Inlet, issued to Cermaq Canada Ltd.; and
x. License No. AQFF 115327 2016/2022 - Wicklow Point, Broughton
Island, issued to Marine Harvest Canada Inc.
d. A declaration that the Defendant has infringed the Dzawada?enuxw?s
Aboriginal rights in respect of the Salmon Species by issuing each of the
Licenses;
e. An order quashing the Fin?sh Licenses; and
f. Such further and other relief as this Honourable Court deems just.
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Where's the palm face slap icon when you need it ;D
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Where's the palm face slap icon when you need it ;D
Join in with the singing and drumming Dave. ;D
I will have all the speeches I recorded for you to dissect and PAP soon. https://youtu.be/D8YVK2wc9SI
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Join in with the singing and drumming Dave. ;D
I will have all the speeches I recorded for you to dissect and PAP soon. https://youtu.be/D8YVK2wc9SI
Why are you trying to shut down recreational Chinook fishing Chris? I will ask you again have you read the court filing? Have you looked at the rights area? it will give access you Fraser river bound salmon.
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Why are you trying to shut down recreational Chinook fishing Chris? I will ask you again have you read the court filing? Have you looked at the rights area? it will give access you Fraser river bound salmon.
I donot see it that way but you of course can interpret any way you wish. Maybe you are a lawyer? Do you work at any environmental issue to do with fish or the environment? Going steelhead fishing now before I cannot. :-X
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I donot see it that way but you of course can interpret any way you wish. Maybe you are a lawyer? Do you work at any environmental issue to do with fish or the environment? Going steelhead fishing now before I cannot. :-X
ug this is not about all the amazing work you do chris no one is questioning that. All i wondering is if you new all what was in that court filing when you showed up to the protests? because it has far more stuff in it then just fish farms.
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https://www.facebook.com/watershedwatchsalmonsociety/videos/1436294939734244/UzpfSTE2Mzc2NTg4MzY1MzgyOTpWSzoxNDM2Mjk0OTM5NzM0MjQ0/?__tn__=%2Cd-]-h-R&eid=ARAhJYo3ETJm5c1uY-Y2RsZHCL8McqzPw1UkUW_GcHmhko_gU31i4pS7gEZYWjD41oWUUbT3HaPrOuaW
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https://aptnnews.ca/2019/01/19/b-c-first-nation-files-aboriginal-rights-lawsuit-against-canada-over-salmon-farms-in-their-territory/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=ef677ae261-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_23_10_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-ef677ae261-166912013&mc_cid=ef677ae261&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
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https://youtu.be/nlOIGh-fJrM
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https://youtu.be/nlOIGh-fJrM
By By recreational salmon quota....By By recreational salmon quota....Stop infringing on our rights...stop infringing on our rights....By By recreational salmon quota...we want to sell salmon....we want to sell salmon
Their fixed the song for you
What do you think this means Chris? did you no this was part of the filing when you showed up to protest? Did you know that the Rights Areaa also included access to Fraser river salmon migration area? I have fished these waters across from Port McNeil, Fraser river and white Harrison Chinook feed their. How much quota do you want them to have to sell?
ii. A declaration that the Dzawada'enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
exchange the Salmon Species for money or goods on a limited basis
and to harvest the Salmon Species for that purpose within the Rights
Area;
A declaration that the Dzawada'enuxw have an Aboriginal right to
manage the Salmon Species within the Rights Area;
11. The Dzawada'enuxw have various aboriginal rights in respect of the Salmon Fishery,
protected by s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982, including the rights to harvest the
Salmon Species for food, ceremonial and social purposes, to harvest and exchange the
Salmon Species and salmon Fish Products for money other goods on a limited basis,
and to manage the Salmon Fishery within the Rights Area.
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Also Chris did you know that in the filing they claimed that wild salmon species are crashing but also asked for the right to kill wild salmon and sell them?
How much is about actually protecting wild salmon?
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How much is about actually protecting wild salmon?
Jack squat.
I don't understand why people are not up in arms over this potential court ruling. Maybe there is just so much going on with protests and protesters, the bigger picture is lost.
People like Chris need to understand this not only about fish farms.
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Jack squat.
I don't understand why people are not up in arms over this potential court ruling. Maybe there is just so much going on with protests and protesters, the bigger picture is lost.
People like Chris need to understand this not only about fish farms.
Get a group together and get support for what you and the PAPG are concerned about. Arrange a meeting with FOC to save the fisheries you are concerned about. You and SS have lots of contacts I am sure, working for them for many years. Get back to us how it goes.
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Get a group together and get support for what you and the PAPG are concerned about. Arrange a meeting with FOC to save the fisheries you are concerned about. You and SS have lots of contacts I am sure, working for them for many years. Get back to us how it goes.
You mean like funding an expedition to the gulf of Alaska? to learn how stocks salmon stocks are influenced by ocean conditions? Are these the pro fish farm people that used to work for DFO that you are referring to?
https://youtu.be/cF1-VILg2aM
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You mean like funding an expedition to the gulf of Alaska? to learn how stocks salmon stocks are influenced by ocean conditions? Are these the pro fish farm people that used to work for DFO that you are referring to?
https://youtu.be/cF1-VILg2aM
Good interview and thanks for the link. I watched it all and look forward to the report.
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https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/freshwater-wildlife-face-an-uncertain-future?fbclid=IwAR0hajc7Xds-mn4ECgx16fpEZLldy5Qp9X5-BbXJwGbTdHKlQVJsxUANK_4
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First of my videos at the press conference. https://youtu.be/JTUGlfB_rpc
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Video 2 of the press conference I filmed for those on this thread. https://youtu.be/kQwnwaZAtJs
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With Eddie. https://youtu.be/Rgccw4nmeUU
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Lawyer Jack Woodward. https://youtu.be/jo2-cdLryCw
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https://chromersportfishing.com/2018/01/30/bc-fish-farms-sea-lice-killing-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR2XAkSsPj-XMlhv2dhTdntz-sAWsfvC8R1oe3jxIL6Un0TNIQMRHPAcYu0
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https://chromersportfishing.com/2018/01/30/bc-fish-farms-sea-lice-killing-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR2XAkSsPj-XMlhv2dhTdntz-sAWsfvC8R1oe3jxIL6Un0TNIQMRHPAcYu0
The actual scientific review done by the PSF, not the cherry picked data,
Quantifying Survival of Age Two Chilko Lake Sockeye Salmon
during the First 50 Days of Migration
"Several factors could differentially affect early marine survival in the CSOG and NEVI
regions. The NEVI area includes the northern-most 1/5th of the Strait of Georgia, and continues
north to encompass the Discovery Islands, Johnstone Strait, the Broughton Archipelago, and
Queen Charlotte Strait, and it is vastly more complex than the CSOG. The area north of
Johnstone Strait is world-renowned for its rich underwater biodiversity (Britnell 2010), and
offers whale watching and other eco-tourism opportunities (Destination BC 2017). The
Johnstone Strait, however, has little primary production (and thus zooplankton prey) because
wind and currents keep it well mixed to depths well below the photic zone (Thomson 1981;
McKinnell et al. 2014), and this leads to decreased juvenile salmon growth rates (Journey et al.
2018). Following the 2009 Fraser River sockeye crash, a trophic gauntlet hypothesis was put
forth by McKinnell et al. (2014) which describes the extreme ocean and climate events occurring
in this region and Queen Charlotte Sound that may have led to poor survival of juvenile sockeye
in 2007, two years prior to the adults’ return. Extreme environmental conditions could lead to
either decreased growth and size-based selection by predators as a result, or outright starvation if
continued for long enough. For instance, (Tucker et al. 2016) observed that Cassin’s auklets
preferentially preyed on smaller salmon in poor condition in southern Queen Charlotte Sound,
area directly 610 north of our study site. The SOG, on the other hand, is one of the most
productive inland seas. Nutrient input and spring phytoplankton bloom timing means that there is
an abundant prey resource pool for migrating juvenile salmon (Harrison and Mackas 2014), and
growth rates are higher (Journey et al. 2018). In the Discovery Islands area between the SOG and
Johnstone Strait, there appears to be an abundant food supply in some years (Price et al. 2013),
but not in others (Neville et al. 2016); McKinnell et al. (2014) discuss the potential production
mechanisms associated with this transition zone
Predation by marine mammals, particularly pinnipeds, has gained more attention as more
studies reveal the preferred diets that these animals consume. The harbour seal (Phoca vitulina
richardsi) population in British Columbia, and particularly the SOG, has rebounded to historic
levels since the species was protected in 1970 (DFO 2009) and there is evidence that they feed
on salmon species of conservation concern, including sockeye (Thomas et al. 2016). ()Even if
juvenile salmon comprise only a small proportion of the total diet, this results in large numbers
of fish (Thomas et al. 2016; Howard et al. 2013; Chasco et al. 2017). As the NEVI region
includes the northern-most area of the SOG, the lower survival we estimated for NEVI could be
partly attributed to fish becoming be more vulnerable to predation as they are concentrated in the
northern SOG and narrower waterways of the Discovery Islands where there are numerous seal
haul outs (DFO 2009; Yurk and Trites 2000)().
Finally, the NEVI area, unlike the SOG, has numerous open net-pen salmon farms, and has
been fraught with controversy regarding the possible effect on wild salmon (Young and
Matthews 2010). The potential for interaction between wild and farmed salmon was highlighted
in a 2012 federal inquiry into the decline of sockeye salmon (Cohen 2012). The inquiry called on
the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) to enforce stricter regulations and
recommended prohibiting salmon farms in the Discovery Islands region if DFO cannot
confidently say “the risk of serious harm [to wild salmon] is minimal” (Cohen 2012). For
example, farmed salmon may transmit sea lice to migrating wild salmon, possibly reducing
foraging success and growth rates of wild salmon (Godwin et al. 2015; Godwin et al. 2017).
There are also a host of viral and bacterial pathogens associated with farmed salmon which may
be potentially harmful to wild salmon (Johansen et al. 2011) although the transmission of disease
has been poorly documented. Travel times reported here indicate that juvenile salmon migrate
quickly through this area, but the risk of serious harm is largely unknown, emphasizing the
importance of evaluating the effect of salmon farm exposure times on wild salmon survival."
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https://www.ecojustice.ca/pressrelease/court-strikes-policy-piscine-orthoreovirus-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR3y9eaWh5lZG5JfkIPswXnf48Y4V3dt1oov_PuQ9j6CnnkDhmo0c8jfYUQ
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https://www.ecojustice.ca/pressrelease/court-strikes-policy-piscine-orthoreovirus-wild-salmon/?fbclid=IwAR3y9eaWh5lZG5JfkIPswXnf48Y4V3dt1oov_PuQ9j6CnnkDhmo0c8jfYUQ
good for elmo and a win for the precautionary principle. Will be interesting to see if DFO recognizes PRV as a threat to salmon tho.
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good for elmo and a win for the precautionary principle. Will be interesting to see if DFO recognizes PRV as a threat to salmon tho.
It will also be interesting if Federal and Provincial hatcheries will be screened as well. Big $$$ for that to happen but if PRV is as infectious as Almo claims, returning hatchery fish may be infected. Using these fish as broodstock would not be legal.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/court-quashes-government-policy-not-to-test-baby-farmed-salmon-for-disease?fbclid=IwAR0RVruV1K8OUy9PQ-JqdKqFXaonUiYbn_opqoVDKMzduf_BG1w6MBSyimo
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http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2019/02/peer-review-concludes-piscine-orthoreovirus-transfer-from-atlantic-salmon-farms-poses-minimal-risk-to-wild-fraser-river-sockeye.html
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That's because it is a disease affecting Chinook salmon:
http://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2018-0008
suggesting that migratory chinook salmon may be at more than a minimal risk of disease from exposure to the high levels of PRV occurring in salmon farms.
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That's because it is a disease affecting Chinook salmon:
http://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2018-0008
suggesting that migratory chinook salmon may be at more than a minimal risk of disease from exposure to the high levels of PRV occurring in salmon farms.
The best they can come up with is MAY be more then MINIMAL risk. The samples are also based on Farmed Chinook salmon not wild Chinook salmon. That's why they say words like MAY and MINIMAL. Whats the odds of Wild Chinook salmon being in the same density as farmed Chinook Salmon as well as having the same exposure time.
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Whoosh
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The best they can come up with is MAY be more then MINIMAL risk. The samples are also based on Farmed Chinook salmon not wild Chinook salmon. That's why they say words like MAY and MINIMAL. Whats the odds of Wild Chinook salmon being in the same density as farmed Chinook Salmon as well as having the same exposure time.
Doc Morton uses that same word all the time to get every one up in arms. It is her loyal followers that leave words like that out.
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https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/02/07/environmental-groups-question-certainty-behind-dfo-finding-that-virus-poses-minimal-risk-to-sockeye.html?fbclid=IwAR1PgKqJZu2pRyvgfx0J_Vscl6Xb_HUeW5iyvkEIfm83CQC4rHmaapl6TWo
There’s ‘total uncertainty’ about impact of highly contagious virus on sockeye, environmental groups say
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As I and others have said many times for a while now.https://globalnews.ca/video/4938080/ottawa-accused-of-silencing-critics-on-salmon-virus?fbclid=IwAR1fkGaZQegA0ven8tFTZ5jTuVWm-V6nDz6QTowCokRIBWwQ0htUulTTQWw
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As I and others have said many times for a while now.https://globalnews.ca/video/4938080/ottawa-accused-of-silencing-critics-on-salmon-virus?fbclid=IwAR1fkGaZQegA0ven8tFTZ5jTuVWm-V6nDz6QTowCokRIBWwQ0htUulTTQWw
Here comes the cry me a river. What happend to silencing of the dfo’s?. And of course a member of the DSF will keep rambling on. We all know who pays this guys income.
https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/vivian-krause-suzukis-funding
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https://globalnews.ca/video/4959664/federal-fisheries-minister-talks-about-controversies?fbclid=IwAR2dfsiwybJusdh109VqEpds68aQTeLzPvHpfDg9MEc0L8VoDQ_9yw0fuQA
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Wow two thumps up to the fisheries minister
Canada keen to support technology overhaul for salmon farms: fisheries minister
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/canada-keen-to-support-technology-overhaul-for-salmon-farms-fisheries-minister?fbclid=IwAR0rxo5jrsSHZZO9VzYuDzCnJu502HMrrTYSIKQhOm-Xnr2KsRb_oTqTbnU
“There is scientific debate out there, so we need to address the issues that people have expressed concern about,” he said. “Should we be siting fish farms on wild salmon migration pathways? Given the debate around pathogens, probably not.”
Environmental groups have raised concerns that net-pen farms may harm wild fish through the transfer of sea lice and other pathogens, most recently pressing the industry to test farmed fish for piscine reovirus (PRV).
“We are moving toward area-based management which means moving to sites that are more environmentally suitable, where communities are supportive and — in the long run — looking at closed-containment technology and how we get to the point where those (designs) are economically viable,” said Wilkinson.
As people transition away from red meat and the output of the world’s wild fisheries declines, demand for farmed seafood is expected to increase.
“The answer to feeding those people will not be to catch more fish, so there is an opportunity to solve that challenge through aquaculture if we can do it sustainably,” he said.
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-more-caution-needed-with-salmon-farming-on-west-coast-federal/
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Why we are concerned about the FF file as well.https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/dfo-buried-scientists-concerns-about-endangered-steelhead-b-c-deputy-minister-says?fbclid=IwAR2AxSXhO8hdzUcdCgSSsv0Kv8ipAPAEy9OQZGWbw7Qf5N_jNew3dJs2wkc
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Why we are concerned about the FF file as well.https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/dfo-buried-scientists-concerns-about-endangered-steelhead-b-c-deputy-minister-says?fbclid=IwAR2AxSXhO8hdzUcdCgSSsv0Kv8ipAPAEy9OQZGWbw7Qf5N_jNew3dJs2wkc
Your article indirectly excludes salmon farming in BC as a threat to these steelhead. However I agree this is concerning but no surprise.
Salmon harvesting is the “only substantial threat to Interior Fraser steelhead that can be immediately mitigated” to save a population that has fallen from 8,000 spawners to only 277, writes Zacharias.
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We were at the Fisheries Minister's office in North Vancouver on Saturday. https://youtu.be/eCXN3r_Q10o
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We were at the Fisheries Minister's office in North Vancouver on Saturday. https://youtu.be/eCXN3r_Q10o
BC wild salmon council
https://engage.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/426/2019/03/Wild-Salmon-Advisory-Council-Report.pdf
Fish farms: Although not in the WSAC’s terms of reference, concerns with marine open-pen salmon farming –
such as lighting, disease, sea lice, pesticides, and escapes – were repeatedly raised. The need for incentives
and innovation related to transitioning to closed containment or land-based systems was often referenced. At
the same time, some stated that salmon farms are not the key culprit in wild salmon declines, and that many
other issues must be addressed. Overall, it was suggested that there needs to be more ongoing co-ordination
between B.C., Canada and Indigenous communities on fish farms and their impacts on wild salmon. Examples:
• Incentives for innovation and closed containment
• Limits to salmon farming in Western U.S. (e.g., Washington, Alaska)
• Broughton Archipelago government-to-government process, outcomes and next steps
• Land-based aquaculture challenges and success stories
¡ Climate change: Participants in the engagement period remind
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1388951&fbclid=IwAR3j25iwd1GBet6QmCS3GtZZ8gLiKpP4gV-HvbM_rgKkOtvddcSaku7RkeM
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What is PRV?
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
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Good news :)
http://seawestnews.com/new-studies-reaffirm-prv-is-not-a-salmon-killer/
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Good news :)
http://seawestnews.com/new-studies-reaffirm-prv-is-not-a-salmon-killer/
Does Not change a thing and the news is neither good nor bad.
The courts have told DFO they have to deal with PRV and the government has chose not to appeal. That is where its at fish farms will have to deal with it.
Fish farm hatcheries will have to be PRV free.
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I think you're reading into it wrong WMY. Heres an article that better describes the court action.
https://www.straight.com/news/1214671/jonathan-wilkinson-renewed-approach-aquaculture?fbclid=IwAR29q9QVzceSBterav7008ZOq19oTp-4ynYF54SN_QZedG5Bj1V2Q5yaieM
For example, in an article that ran on this website earlier this month, a noted environmental activist asserted that (if not appealed) a recent Federal Court decision regarding piscine orthoreovirus (PRV) requires, by law, that, as of June 4, smolts be tested for PRV before being transferred to open-net pens. In fact, what the court actually found is that DFO’s current policies set the threshold for “harm” to wild stocks too high and should be revisited. The court also said that upon revisiting this matter, “it is possible that the Minister will still conclude that it is appropriate to maintain the PRV Policy,” i.e. that it is not necessary to test for PRV.
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You may have missed this part of the artical also wmy.
“Do salmon farmers test for PRV?
Yes. BC salmon farmers provided samples for the 2014 scientific study that documents PRV in BC and Alaska salmon without associated disease. BC salmon farmers are providing samples for other scientific studies that are underway. This is being done even though Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO), and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), do not have PRV on the list of reportable diseases/pathogens.”
http://seawestnews.com/new-studies-reaffirm-prv-is-not-a-salmon-killer/
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https://www.straight.com/news/1214671/jonathan-wilkinson-renewed-approach-aquaculture?fbclid=IwAR09jaIydG_eazfAfaUmS6xccYU1-Nh61P8Ynd7x4UKR_T_6BwXRXDTXUAg
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https://www.facebook.com/johnhorganbc/videos/2579210905483929/UzpfSTU1NDY5NDA1NToxMDE1ODM1NzA5OTk4OTA1Ng/
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Fish farms are going to stay in the ocean till buying a wild salmon is so expensive it makes on land fish farms worth it
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http://seawestnews.com/claims-by-anti-fish-activist-not-true-says-minister/
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http://seawestnews.com/claims-by-anti-fish-activist-not-true-says-minister/
lol I was in such disbelief that I had to go find the op ed.
https://www.straight.com/news/1214671/jonathan-wilkinson-renewed-approach-aquaculture
Dave I think here wrote this paragraph just for you, as you have been saying this for years
"Over 90 percent of the planet’s wild fish stocks are either fished to the maximum or overfished, yet demand for healthy sources of protein is increasing. Nearly half of fish consumed by humans now comes from aquaculture. It is clear the world needs aquaculture."
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I also like how he linked the court case! lol wow
https://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/363491/index.do?q=morton).
Looks like hatcheries won't have to worry about testing for PRV, unless DFO says they must. The courts are deferring to DFO Science,.
[370] For the same reasons as in T-1710-16, I have concluded that the PRV Policy Decision is unreasonable and must be quashed. The further declarations sought by ‘Namgis related to PRV, such as testing, are unnecessary and, in these circumstances, are not appropriate to the Court’s role.
wow boy was Mortan way off the mark by what she and others reported.
"[365] The basis on which I have found the PRV Policy Decision to be unreasonable is that the Minister’s Interpretation of s 56 of the FGRs is unreasonable, the PRV Policy Decision derogates from the precautionary principal, and fails to consider the health of wild Pacific salmon. It is not the role of this Court to make scientific findings, which, in essence, is what would be required to ground the additional declaratory relief sought by Ms. Morton."
[366] And, although the PRV Policy Decision will be quashed, because there are many aquaculture facilities now in operation that will likely require and apply for transfer licences while the PRV Policy is being reconsidered, it is appropriate to suspend my judgment for a four (4) month period from the date of its issue to permit DFO time to complete its outstanding risk assessment concerning PRV and HSMI, as described in Thomson Affidavit #2, which presumably will include a comprehensive review of the current science concerning PRV and HSMI.
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I think its important to note just how far off the mark the media was when they reported about this case.
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This, and a Leafs loss tonight will be hard on Chris ;)
Oh well, Almo made some more money for her lawyer buddies. Wonder who pays court fees?
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This, and a Leafs loss tonight will be hard on Chris ;)
Oh well, Almo made some more money for her lawyer buddies. Wonder who pays court fees?
Ms. Morton shall have her costs in the amount of $22,000.00, as agreed by the parties in the event of her success, payable as follows:
(a) DFO shall pay to Ms. Morton the sum of $7,333.00, offset by $1,500.00 for a total payment of $5,833.00 inclusive of all fees, disbursements and taxes;
(b) Marine Harvest shall pay to Ms. Morton the sum of $7,333.00, inclusive of all fees, disbursements and taxes;
(c) Cermaq shall pay to Ms. Morton the sum of $7,333.00, inclusive of all fees, disbursements and taxes.
‘Namgis shall have its costs assessed pursuant to Rule 400(5) subject to this Court’s direction that:
(a) All costs shall be assessed in accordance with Tariff B, Column III;
(b) The assessed costs shall be payable by the Minister to ‘Namgis.
(c) All costs pertaining to T-744-18 shall be excluded.
6. A copy of these reasons shall be placed in the files of T-1710-16 and T‑744‑18.
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This, and a Leafs loss tonight will be hard on Chris ;)
Oh well, Almo made some more money for her lawyer buddies. Wonder who pays court fees?
Believe it or not it looks like she stuck the Namgis nation with a bunch of court bills that will not be paid because they lost part of the ruling.
T-744-18
The application for judicial review is dismissed;
There shall be no order as to costs;and
A copy of these reasons shall be placed in the files of T-1710-16 and T-430-18.
"[400] I also agree with the Minister that, in essence, ‘Namgis made unfounded allegations of unethical behaviour on the part of counsel for the Minister to ground a claim of breach of procedural fairness, which claim I have found to lack merit. I have also found that the ‘Namgis Expert Affidavits, which it submits demonstrate the Minister’s bad faith, to be inadmissible and, even if they were admissible, that they do not establish bad faith. I agree with the Minister and Cermaq that those bad faith allegations added significant procedural steps and costs to the applications. However, while this approach by ‘Namgis may have been ill advised, it was open to it. That said, it is not apparent to me why ‘Namgis required three expert affidavits which are based on the same instructions and largely cover the same ground. Finally, I would note that, as I have observed above, the bifurcation of ‘Namgis’ case between T-430-18 and T-744-18 was unnecessary. "
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lol I was in such disbelief that I had to go find the op ed.
https://www.straight.com/news/1214671/jonathan-wilkinson-renewed-approach-aquaculture
Dave I think here wrote this paragraph just for you, as you have been saying this for years
"Over 90 percent of the planet’s wild fish stocks are either fished to the maximum or overfished, yet demand for healthy sources of protein is increasing. Nearly half of fish consumed by humans now comes from aquaculture. It is clear the world needs aquaculture."
I had it posted above for you so you did not have to look for you. Notice in the picture the Minister is handling the sockeye with gloves, as all of us know that is not good.I guess he did not want to get the protective slime off the fish and onto his hands.
From FWR, 2009. Read Everday's post in page 1.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22832.0
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https://seawestnews.com/no-impact-on-lobsters-from-salmon-farm-operations%ef%bb%bf/
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https://seawestnews.com/scientist-gets-top-award-for-a-lousy-choice%ef%bb%bf/
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https://seawestnews.com/scientist-gets-top-award-for-a-lousy-choice%ef%bb%bf/
Thanks for this information Bob. I had the pleasure of doing technical stuff for Simon; great guy and a well deserving honor.
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https://seawestnews.com/alaska-hatchery-pink-salmon-imperil-wild-stocks/
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Have you guys seen this one lol, Who honestly believes Elmo found this?
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/sea-louse-found-in-packaged-salmon-from-north-vancouver-store-1.4448508
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So, you think she slipped it under the packaging somehow?
There have been massive lice outbreaks at fish farms recently.
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/
“http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/why-you-dont-deserve-the-attention-you-crave/”
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/
“http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/why-you-dont-deserve-the-attention-you-crave/”
People that are desperate and have no money will do anything. On her Facebook page she was ranting about how all the big ENGOs were getting the anti fish farm donations and she was left high and dry after she partnered with them.
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https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/fisheries-minister-announces-wild-salmon-safeguards-and-aquaculture-virus-tests?fbclid=IwAR3pLz_VYcgmUeQq8faNw3fRuTjo-9GgOljSl0HGl73aGhSbuuI-NT2Pds4
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There have been massive lice outbreaks at fish farms recently.
Major sea lice epidemics have erupted on Atlantic salmon fish farms on Vancouver Island’s west coast over the last three months, according to industry, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and independent reports.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/06/11/Sea-Lice-Plagues-Return/
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Major sea lice epidemics have erupted on Atlantic salmon fish farms on Vancouver Island’s west coast over the last three months, according to industry, Fisheries and Oceans Canada and independent reports.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/06/11/Sea-Lice-Plagues-Return/
“If this happens for a couple more years we won’t have any wild salmon left in Clayoquot Sound,” she added
Do you think she will would bet me a 100 bones? i'm willing to bed in a couple years salmon will be there
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“If this happens for a couple more years we won’t have any wild salmon left in Clayoquot Sound,” she added
Do you think she will would bet me a 100 bones? i'm willing to bed in a couple years salmon will be there
http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070/news/increasing-number-of-wild-fish-dying-at-bc-fish-farms-1.9323713
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http://www.iheartradio.ca/cfax-1070/news/increasing-number-of-wild-fish-dying-at-bc-fish-farms-1.9323713
Thats with respect to incidental catch and its mostly herring. and a small fraction of the the commercial industry harvests. Good PDF to get donations tho so make sure you empty your piggy bank.
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https://www.westerlynews.ca/news/first-nations-and-allies-protest-fish-farms-in-clayoquot-sound-near-tofino/?fbclid=IwAR0C8A04BIHWQBUYgoYd8MIunskHFlqYmUYoLVGh-6JJJzwPKJ3hl1kkl24
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https://www.westerlynews.ca/news/first-nations-and-allies-protest-fish-farms-in-clayoquot-sound-near-tofino/?fbclid=IwAR0C8A04BIHWQBUYgoYd8MIunskHFlqYmUYoLVGh-6JJJzwPKJ3hl1kkl24
Smells like a hereditary and elected chief dispute. Same old.
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2019/06/government-of-canada-announces-enhancements-to-sea-lice-enforcement-in-british-columbia.html?fbclid=IwAR1aA-_dAVZvmkoLQYaV397lpNJLVCNRc4p5k4mLdInOQom99F4XOO98rtQ
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I still believe that the main problem is over fishing... salmon, herring, etc...
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/david-attenborough-s-worried-about-this-ocean-threat-and-it-s-not-plastic
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ohhhh we have a new debater to welcome to the field!
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https://www.fishfarmermagazine.com/health/farmed-fish-only-food-sector-free-of-medicine-residues/
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https://act.newmode.net/action/unredactforsalmon
Web page from Alexandra Morton to send an email to your MP and the Minister of Fisheries with the following contents:
Dear Minister of Fisheries, Jonathan Wilkinson:
CC: my local MP
After losing three lawsuits, you are now trying to change the law to allow PRV-infected farm salmon into fish farms. Before you do this, we need know what the Norwegian virologist told DFO about the virulence of this virus.
To protect wild salmon, section 56 of the Fishery (General) Regulations prohibits the Minister of Fisheries from transferring fish infected with a “disease agent” into marine net pen fish farms.
The salmon farming industry argued in court that this law “severely impacts” their business, because so many farm salmon are infected with PRV. PRV is a Norwegian blood virus associated with massive blood cell rupture and organ failure in Chinook salmon.
Three Ministers before you ignored the Federal Court ruling that farm salmon must be screened for PRV before issuing a licence to transfer them from hatcheries into marine farms.
As a result, wild salmon exposed to salmon farms are becoming infected with PRV and many runs of wild salmon are sliding towards extinction.
Your department’s position is that PRV is not harmful.
However, on April 4, 2016, DFO received virulence test results from a Norwegian virologist. Eleven lines of this email were redacted. Despite DFO promises to be transparent, requests for the information in this email have been denied.
Before you change the laws of Canada to fit the salmon farming industry by legalizing PRV-infected farm salmon, we need to review all information on how virulent PRV is to salmon.
Please release the unredacted version of the April 4, 2016 email from Dr. Rimstad to Dr. Kyle Garver (DFO).
Thank you,
[your name will go here]
[your email address will go here] [your location will go here]
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Record Sockeye in Bristol Bay in Alaska - over 40 million already.
23 million pinks expected.
Coho numbers are good.
Chinook returns are poor.
https://www.adn.com/business-economy/2019/07/25/bristol-bay-sockeye-harvest-blowing-away-forecast-once-again/
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/fishing/2019/07/26/fish-abound-across-southcentral-alaska-as-salmon-swarm-area-streams/
Ocean survival is not the problem - the problem exists between the Fraser and the top of Haida Gwaii.
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Record Sockeye in Bristol Bay in Alaska - over 40 million already.
23 million pinks expected.
Coho numbers are good.
Chinook returns are poor.
https://www.adn.com/business-economy/2019/07/25/bristol-bay-sockeye-harvest-blowing-away-forecast-once-again/
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/fishing/2019/07/26/fish-abound-across-southcentral-alaska-as-salmon-swarm-area-streams/
Ocean survival is not the problem - the problem exists between the Fraser and the top of Haida Gwaii.
Ocean survival varies for different species and regions. When northern stocks do well, southern stocks tend to suffer, and vice-versa. Also, Alaska chinook survival has been dismal for a few years, but California is having a banner year.
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Record Sockeye in Bristol Bay in Alaska - over 40 million already.
23 million pinks expected.
Coho numbers are good.
Chinook returns are poor.
https://www.adn.com/business-economy/2019/07/25/bristol-bay-sockeye-harvest-blowing-away-forecast-once-again/
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/fishing/2019/07/26/fish-abound-across-southcentral-alaska-as-salmon-swarm-area-streams/
Ocean survival is not the problem - the problem exists between the Fraser and the top of Haida Gwaii.
Actually the problem persists up to the top end of the gulf of alaska. Bristol bay sockeye live there lives in the bering sea and the warmer warmers there have been great for sockeye. Not so good for their cod fishery tho.
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What about this run in the Kenai?
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/fishing/2019/07/29/sockeye-salmon-continue-to-surge-into-kenai-river/
The river is in the inlet that leads to Anchorage just off the gulf of Alaska.
Another news article showing the scope of the fishing:
https://www.adn.com/outdoors-adventure/fishing/2019/07/20/alaskans-line-the-kenais-mouth-to-dipnet-for-sockeye-salmon/
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Salmon farm decommission in B.C.'s Broughton on track, says premier
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/salmon-farm-decommission-1.5290677
5 farms have been decommissioned, 5 more by 2022 and another 7 by 2024.
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https://seawestnews.com/there-is-a-reel-life-bias-in-patagonias-fishy-film-draft/
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They are not done yet.
https://seawestnews.com/cooke-makes-a-fish-farming-comeback-in-washington-waters/
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https://seawestnews.com/its-not-about-wild-first-its-about-votes-first/
“Despite apocalyptic projections that salmon farms will decimate all wild salmon stocks on the West Coast, nothing of the sort has happened.”
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PRV testing update.
https://seawestnews.com/fish-farms-do-not-need-to-test-for-b-c-strain-of-virus/
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Good, science prevailed over the activist. That, plus testing for an endemic virus would have made it nearly impossible for volunteer hatcheries to continue.
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Interesting
https://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2019/7/richmond-council-set-give-right-way-yvr-jet-fuel-pipeline/
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This man imo is a very good speaker. Well worth taking the time to watch this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-ZWaWJZgV4
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Good, science prevailed over the activist. That, plus testing for an endemic virus would have made it nearly impossible for volunteer hatcheries to continue.
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/farmed-salmon-toxic-flame-retardants?fbclid=IwAR2cgF1kSPKHI3IQfJb2hV7RTZ3ut6wWLRFXHyjq8vJjB3S_l7PAqsL3kLU
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https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/farmed-salmon-toxic-flame-retardants?fbclid=IwAR2cgF1kSPKHI3IQfJb2hV7RTZ3ut6wWLRFXHyjq8vJjB3S_l7PAqsL3kLU
More scare tactics. Looks like it is in a lot of food we eat Chris.
https://www.sgs.com/en/news/2014/06/brominated-flame-retardants-in-food
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https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/flame-retardants-are-everywhere/
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Here is some entertainment for you bob check out the comments,
https://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1749#comments
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Here is some entertainment for you bob check out the comments,
https://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1749#comments
Thanks Wildman. I am looking forward to her reply:)
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Ha ha! I would be surprised if Almo did any more posting on Bob's site ;D
The steelhead derby on the Harrison is as bad as predicting extinction of pink salmon in the Broughton.
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/international-expedition-answers-troubling-questions-about-b-c-salmon-runs
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https://seawestnews.com/ontario-farmed-rainbow-trout-gets-ocean-wise-nod
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https://seawestnews.com/as-canada-dithers-the-world-moves-on-with-aquaculture
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Hello,
Tomorrow I am giving a TEDX talk in Seattle. It will be live-streamed at the website below. My talk is at 12:10pm...
Of course it is about salmon... :)
https://tedxseattle.com/
Alex
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https://watershedwatch.ca/media-releases/b-c-environmental-groups-urge-prime-minister-to-keep-election-promise/?utm_source=Watershed+Watch+Email+List&utm_campaign=e9f70155f4-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_11_27_10_15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_405944b1b5-e9f70155f4-166912013&mc_cid=e9f70155f4&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
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Environmental groups have learned they can't win this based on the science. So they take resort to lobbying. Hope the First Nations in Klemtu that relight havealy on fish farming survive this. IT would be a shame to rip the farms away from them.
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Go to Globalbc news right now ...commercial...then...
News about if Trudeau will keep his fish farm promise.
I understand in 5-6 yrs he wants them to be land based !
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Go to Globalbc news right now ...commercial...then...
News about if Trudeau will keep his fish farm promise.
I understand in 5-6 yrs he wants them to be land based !
ITs not that simple, Some first nations like fish farms and it appears the goverment has yet again failed to consult with them before making the announcement to remove fish farms.
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ITs not that simple, Some first nations like fish farms and it appears the goverment has yet again failed to consult with them before making the announcement to remove fish farms.
The scale of public opinion is against fish farms.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Boat has been holed & slowly taking on water & no pump...pail not big enough...
Just a matter of time...no matter who's in Ottawa.
When a gov. makes an announcement on this issue it's good as done.
But timeline may take longer than than 5-6 yrs.
Thought natives were all unified against fish farms???
So they should give thumbs up or green light to remove fish farms from the salt.
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https://www.oceanographicmagazine.com/clayoquot-sound-salmon-deaths/?fbclid=IwAR07HKyRjGYWXbELAJPMJ_N2NOxxxmKOpRT6k_m-CCRJH5cB7FUUGLThf20
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https://www.oceanographicmagazine.com/clayoquot-sound-salmon-deaths/?fbclid=IwAR07HKyRjGYWXbELAJPMJ_N2NOxxxmKOpRT6k_m-CCRJH5cB7FUUGLThf20
I don't understand what the big deal is, algie killed some fish and they died.
woopty doo
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I don't understand what the big deal is, algie killed some fish and they died.
woopty doo
I don't understand why the dead fish were trucked away in the dead of night. ( if not a big deal )
Where there's smoke there's fire.
Reminds me of the secret USA base AREA 51 or whatever number it is.
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I don't understand what the big deal is, algie killed some fish and they died.
woopty doo
spoken like a 'true scientist'.
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I don't understand why the dead fish were trucked away in the dead of night. ( if not a big deal )
Where there's smoke there's fire.
Reminds me of the secret USA base AREA 51 or whatever number it is.
Ancient aliens and fish farms do have a lot in common
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Ancient aliens and fish farms do have a lot in common
Name me one.
But secrets & trying to coverup or hide something from the general public has lots in common !
:)
Talking about ufos & aliens ...people are seeing them but they are not real ufos/or aliens.
But people are seeing them that's for sure but that's not on this trend topic...so will not elaborate any further.
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/fish-farm-foes-take-heart-from-pledge-to-take-aquaculture-out-of-b-c-waters/?fbclid=IwAR0shfQXDN_vzHr-aDn17yYQeSTEuoXYRha8aFUL5C7nqW8SkS4M40iIEH4
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https://www.theprogress.com/news/fish-farm-foes-take-heart-from-pledge-to-take-aquaculture-out-of-b-c-waters/?fbclid=IwAR0shfQXDN_vzHr-aDn17yYQeSTEuoXYRha8aFUL5C7nqW8SkS4M40iIEH4
A plan by 2025...then plan to proceed or proceed. Gee sounds like it will take 10-25 yrs to finally get it entirely land based. Hope not.
Leader said fish farming must change is admitting there is a PROBLEM the way it's done now.
The boys of fish farms are socking their $$$ away for a rainy day.
I'd imagine the land based farms would still need same number of workers (?) but will the production numbers be as high ?
I believe Israel has fresh water fish farms. Worked for them.
EDIT IN: for wild stocks to recover it's multi factor as we all know. Get rid of fish farms are just one.
Now they must fix that slide on the Fraser. Kinda like Hell's Gate 2.
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https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/12/06/meet-the-business-elite-who-took-up-the-fight-to-get-fish-farms-out-of-bcs-water.html?fbclid=IwAR04gkoBcpCacaXh3m4IxLb5LnJq7vigjpj_PSijLL85Yc39v4Rft4NcW2g
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Large land-based salmon farms face opposition in Maine
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/aquaculture-atlantic-salmon-net-pens-land-based-1.5401145
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Russia prepares to allocate $242m for development of national salmon farms
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/12/27/russia-prepares-to-allocate-242m-for-development-of-nations-salmon-farms/
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oh dear .... ;D
https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/bc-net-pens-wont-be-transitioned-by-2025-says-minister/?utm_campaign=newsletter__22_01_2020&utm_source=netflex&utm_medium=email
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oh dear .... ;D
https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/bc-net-pens-wont-be-transitioned-by-2025-says-minister/?utm_campaign=newsletter__22_01_2020&utm_source=netflex&utm_medium=email
It does not matter Climate change is the driving force is salmon returns anyone that thinks differently firmly has their head planted in the sand and is ignoring the wealth of science that is coming out.
altho the boogie man fish farm sells better.
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It does not matter Climate change is the driving force is salmon returns anyone that thinks differently firmly has their head planted in the sand and is ignoring the wealth of science that is coming out.
altho the boogie man fish farm sells better.
And, it gives Almo, Eddie, and Chris something to do for the next few years ::)
Seriously, I was wondering how the new government was going to handle this, with UNDRIP and reconcilliation so foremost on their agenda.
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https://youtu.be/ATWAbT_z0Qg
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Something for you pro-farm people to pick apart and rage about:
https://islandfishermanmagazine.com/yellow-salmon-alexandra-morton-asks-for-fishermens-help/
Quote: Most farm salmon in BC are infected with piscine orthoreovirus, or PRV. I have confirmed this by testing hundreds of BC farm salmon in markets and the industry now admits to it.
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/we-re-on-the-brink-report-highlights-concerning-virus-in-b-c-salmon-1.4798539?fbclid=IwAR1ViKZlk3iypq_sdid2WZxwZF0hvvq-1P5V63mwI5ciLL2EhtjUWx2pGzw#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=U4f7SmF
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Note where a lot of this comes from. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ghost-gear-snowdrifts-of-foam-major-hurdles-in-ocean-cleanup-b-c-government-report?mc_cid=0ee68be033&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
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Note where a lot of this comes from. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ghost-gear-snowdrifts-of-foam-major-hurdles-in-ocean-cleanup-b-c-government-report?mc_cid=0ee68be033&mc_eid=e6f132e5f8
Most of it comes from the shellfish industry and has for a very long time.
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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/common-tire-chemical-implicated-mysterious-deaths-risk-salmon
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Hey Bob, glad you're back. Interesting study for sure.
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its not really anything new, perhaps because CNN reported on it that its blowing up in news outlets. Seems like the new thing may be the have isolated the death causing chemical and lobby and focus on banning it.
anyways good for it to get out in the media and have people think about salmon.
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its not really anything new, perhaps because CNN reported on it that its blowing up in news outlets. Seems like the new thing may be the have isolated the death causing chemical and lobby and focus on banning it.
anyways good for it to get out in the media and have people think about salmon.
The Science article is the most current and definitive on the topic (that's why they got it published in Science). They finally narrowed it down to the specific chemical that is causing the die-offs (6PPD), whereas for years before they just thought it was something in tire particles/residue. Hopefully they can find a suitable safer replacement for 6PPD and get it in the industry quickly.
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Has similar significant coho pre-spawn mortality been noted in BC urban streams? Or are there no streams similar in nature to those in Seattle?
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https://seawestnews.com/salmon-farmers-care-deeply-about-our-coastal-waters-says-ndp-mp/
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Has similar significant coho pre-spawn mortality been noted in BC urban streams? Or are there no streams similar in nature to those in Seattle?
Saw several dead fish early this season on the banks of my local creek. The fish were in decent shape and weren't spawned out. I wondered at the time why there were so many dead ones... perhaps related to this type of pollution. The fish in the photo below was more silver on the other side but I flipped it over because someone's off-leash dog chewed off the other side of its face just before I snapped the photo :o
(https://i.ibb.co/Sx4dVKw/IMG-1900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BP5rTg2)
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I discovered some salmon in a very small urban stream near my home. Couple of days ago while walking I heard a commotion and found a man and his off leash dog, the owner said we were " just checking the fish out". There were several live as well as spawned out fish about.
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https://seawestnews.com/dead-loss-report-on-aquaculture-is-dead-wrong/
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Dead Loss: access to the actual report:
https://www.justeconomics.co.uk/health-and-well-being/dead-loss
https://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=&day=12&id=111550&l=e&special=&ndb=1%20target=
other media reports:
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/salmon-farming-causing-significant-damage-report-finds?top
https://www.asf.ca/news-and-magazine/salmon-news/global-salmon-farming-harming-marine-life-and-costing-billions-in-damage
(https://asf.imgix.net/assets/images/assets/images/blogs/990-Aquaculture-nfographic-V4-1.jpg?auto=format&crop=focalpoint&domain=asf.imgix.net&fit=crop&fp-x=0.5&fp-y=0.5&ixlib=php-3.3.0&q=80&w=480&s=559f0cc7da9181e20c9277e5707291ea)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/11/global-salmon-farming-harming-marine-life-and-costing-billions-in-damage?mc_cid=5c41d697c2&mc_eid=72b301a8fa
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/sep/15/net-loss-the-high-price-of-salmon-farming
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https://seawestnews.com/court-rejects-mortons-missive-on-bc-fish-farms/
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Hey Bob, glad you're still in the game, lol!
Lonely here without Chris ;D
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yeah thanks for the continuation of your links to corporate sponsored yellow journalism! ;D
Happy April 1st.
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https://seawestnews.com/court-rejects-mortons-missive-on-bc-fish-farms/
Hey don't you know she is the next jane goodall.
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Judge Aylen’s also blocked morton back in 2017,
Bet morton was not happy when Judge Aylen’s got put on the docket!
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her affidavit wasn't accepted as it was hearsay which doesn't met the rules for evidence in any court. How affidavit did various Republicans swear out after the last Presidential election? Affidavits are supposed to describe facts not gossip or delusions.
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https://seawestnews.com/spies-and-lies-in-anti-salmon-farm-activists-book/
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Alexander Morton has had a full page article published in the Opinion section of today's Globe and Mail:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-salmon-fisheries-threaten-bcs-wild-salmon-we-have-one-last-chance-to/
Salmon fisheries threaten B.C.’s wild salmon. We have one last chance to save them
Industry has failed to keep sea lice, viruses and bacteria from putting wild stocks at risk, but challenges from First Nations and conflicts in court could finally compel governments to act
Alexandra Morton is founder of the Salmon Coast Field Station and author of Not on My Watch: How a Renegade Whale Biologist Took on Governments and Industry to Save Wild Salmon.
Salmon farming in Canada was born on the wrong side of the law more than 30 years ago, and it has continued to bend the spirit and intention of Canadian fishery laws, no matter the successful legal challenges to its practices or the science measuring the harm it causes to wild fish.
For decades, federal and provincial bureaucrats have turned a blind eye to the damage wrought by this enterprise and softened the regulations intended to keep it in check. They created an industry that saw no reason to accommodate the people who depend on wild stocks. Salmon farming companies may adorn their vessels and websites with Indigenous imagery, but woe to the First Nation that has tried to defend its vanishing salmon runs from the viruses, bacteria and parasites unleashed from these floating feedlots.
But now, in a remarkable turn of events, the three foreign-owned companies that dominate salmon farming in British Columbia face a hard reckoning. It comes from the hands of Indigenous governments that place a high priority on the benefits provided by wild salmon. On Dec. 17, 2020, in a stark reversal of the status quo, the federal Minister of Fisheries, Bernadette Jordan, emerged from consultations with seven First Nations and told the industry that it was not allowed to restock its 19 salmon farms in B.C.’s Discovery Islands, and that their licences would expire in 2022.
As far back as 1984, a lawyer named Bruce Wildsmith told the federal government, which seemed bedazzled by the promise of salmon farms, that unless Canada’s laws were restructured, the rights of First Nations would one day threaten the industry. The federal government ignored his warning, handing regulation over to the provinces, which branded these operations “farms” and leased tenures to the companies so they could drop anchors on the seafloor. While the provinces have the right to issue seafloor tenures, the floating pens tied to these anchors raised legal issues as they effectively walled-off portions of the ocean.
One of my own court challenges to the industry, Morton vs. British Columbia 2009, established that it is the same ocean inside and outside these pens. Since the ocean is federal jurisdiction, the judge ruled it was illegal for the provinces to regulate activities in the pens. The judge handed regulation back to the feds, and the salmon “farms” became a “fishery” – albeit a private one, which has no legal precedent in Canada. Furthermore, the decision made clear that who actually owns the fish in the pens is open to dispute. (Inexplicably, the provinces still regulate salmon farms in Eastern Canada.)
All this bending of our laws put the bureaucrats in charge of day-to-day salmon farming operations in a difficult position. The solid rules they relied on to run public fisheries became fuzzy around this private fishery. For example, all fish boats in Canada must by law display a visible licence number – except for vessels involved in the salmon aquaculture fishery. The Fisheries Act was written before salmon farms, and so rules on how to resolve conflicts between the private and the public fisheries do not exist.
Today, despite the drastic curtailment of commercial fisheries, many wild salmon runs in B.C. are in a state of utter collapse. Clearly something has gone wrong. Over the past 20 years, scientists from universities and government, as well as independent scientists such as myself, raised red flags in international scientific journals and connected disease amplification in salmon farms with declines in wild salmon runs. But even as Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) built a powerful Aquaculture Management Division, it assigned no one to oversee the health of wild salmon. All the science that could have been used to ensure both a vibrant wild fishery and an aquaculture industry was ignored, simply because there was no DFO inbox to receive this information. There is no one at the director level of the DFO to counterbalance the needs of industrial salmon with the needs of wild salmon.
In 2017-18, the First Nations of the Broughton Archipelago responded to the collapse of wild salmon runs by occupying the salmon farms located without their permission in their territories for 280 days. For the first time, myself and the other people occupying the farms put cameras in the pens and saw the reality of this industry: Atlantic salmon with open sores, tumours hanging out of their mouths, emaciated, deformed and pocked with sea lice, swimming in a stew of stringy brown feces. The water flowing out of these pens was saturated with larval lice, bacteria and viruses, even some no one knew existed on the B.C. coast.
The majority of the plagues that humanity has suffered came from animals we put in farms. And yet this hard-won knowledge is ignored when it comes to fish farms.
To be clear, the issue here isn’t whether we should farm fish, but how. If these companies erected solid barriers between their feedlots and the ocean, they would solve a long list of problems. But the only solid wall is the one the bureaucracies of the provincial Ministry of Agriculture, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and the DFO’s Aquaculture Management Division built to protect the industry from anything that might reduce profits. Salmon farming revenues hinge on externalizing the cost of dealing with waste. Moving into tanks means companies would have to pay more for its removal, so they are not keen to do so.
c Globe and Mail April 3, 2021
continued:
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-salmon-fisheries-threaten-bcs-wild-salmon-we-have-one-last-chance-to/
I have spent my whole adult life trying to chase this industry away from wild salmon by uncovering its secrets, publishing science on its impact and forcing it to comply with the law. Meanwhile, I watched young wild salmon die every year, infested with the sea lice breeding in the farms. Eventually, I got a good look beyond the bureaucratic wall by using the Access to Information Act to obtain internal government communications.
I have read the words of senior bureaucrats as they denied, played down and suppressed any DFO science that reported the impact of salmon farms on wild salmon. For example, on March 1, 2020, DFO senior management lowered sea-lice regulations to the point that a farm can remain dangerously loaded with the parasite for six weeks – long enough to infect entire runs of juvenile wild salmon – and still remain in “compliance.” They made this decision even as the department’s own veterinarians and conservation and protection staff tried to make companies reduce the number of breeding sea lice.
The DFO’s aquaculture managers also stubbornly refuse to acknowledge evidence from their own scientists and others that a virus traced to Norway, called PRV, appears to cause the red blood cells of chinook salmon to rupture en masse and cause heart damage in sockeye. This denial means that PRV-infected farm fish were transferred by the millions from freshwater hatcheries, where they were born, into floating farms, where they were raised. The virus then spread unchecked into B.C. waters and infected wild salmon, which have carried it up the Fraser, Skeena and many other rivers.
Research by DFO scientists that linked the salmon leukemia virus that surged through chinook salmon farms in the Discovery Islands in the 1990s to extreme Fraser sockeye prespawning mortality rates was defunded and the researchers muzzled. Our own Canadian Food Inspection Agency says in a July 24, 2019, memo that it doesn’t want to test farmed salmon for certain foreign viruses because the results might trigger restrictions on shipping the fish out of the country.
The First Nations’ principled occupation of the salmon farms in the Broughton Archipelago led to a year of talks between their governments and the province, which ultimately affirmed the Nations’ authority to remove 17 farms from the B.C. coast. The recent decision by the Minister of Fisheries to prohibit the restocking of 19 salmon farms in the Discovery Islands will clear another 300 kilometres of migration route, giving wild salmon on the eastern side of Vancouver Island a fighting chance for survival.
But these victories don’t mean the battle has been won, given that the three companies that dominate salmon farming in B.C. are now suing the Minister of Fisheries because – in one of Canada’s boldest acts of reconciliation – Ms. Jordan stood to honour the demand by the Homalco, Klahoose, K’omoks, Kwiakah, Tla’amin, We Wai Kai and Wei Wai Kum First Nations to protect wild salmon.
And despite reading thousands of pages of internal government communications, I was not prepared for what was revealed in documents I obtained on Feb. 23, 2021.
A team of DFO and Pacific Salmon Foundation scientists discovered that the bacteria causing widespread mouthrot in salmon farms is accumulating in seawater in the Discovery Islands. Their data suggested that this pathogen might be causing as much as an 87.9-per-cent reduction in the survival of young sockeye, and lowering populations of chinook and coho salmon as well. Some of the affected stocks are just a few fish away from extinction.
In October, 2020, the scientists took their findings to senior DFO managers, some of whom were involved in the Discovery Islands consultations. On Nov. 4, 2020, DFO managers gave the BC Salmon Farmers Association a heads-up that this research should concern the industry because the high rate of infection in their farms appeared to be spreading to wild salmon. These managers did not inform the seven First Nations involved in the consultations nor, it would appear, the Minister of Fisheries.
On Dec. 16, two months after senior staff were first briefed and the day before the federal licences expired and the minister had to make her decision, the DFO regional director for the Pacific Coast wrote in an e-mail to an assistant deputy minister in Ottawa: “I feel like this issue should be raised to the Deputy Minister asap, given the current context.” This was a bit late, and I found no evidence that Ms. Jordan was told about it.
While she relied on the position of the First Nations in this case, her department effectively left her unprepared to make an informed decision critical to preventing the extinction of the Fraser River sockeye and other wild salmon runs.
Only 5 per cent of the late-run Fraser sockeye lived to return to the river in 2020. Some spawning grounds saw as few as 20 fish. Almost 10 years ago, Justice Bruce Cohen wrote an extensive report on the $23-million inquiry into the collapse of the Fraser sockeye. In it he warned that DFO loyalties were “divided” when it came to salmon farms.
“Divided,” however, does not begin to describe the act of hiding evidence of an epidemic that could wipe out the last of the salmon in the Fraser – the largest salmon river in the world, and a legacy we owe our children. The DFO communications reveal a serious rupture in the flow of scientific information required to make the best decisions for all Canadians.
As the salmon farming industry takes the Minister of Fisheries to court, it will be first time that the federal government, First Nations and many scientists and environmentalists are all on the same side, leaving the corporations standing alone. In January, one of the companies also sued the Norwegian government over an order to reduce the number of farmed salmon in pens because their sea lice was affecting wild salmon. On March 17, the day before the first hearing in Canadian court, they lost. Farm salmon production worldwide hinges increasingly on the courts.
As I write, young wild salmon are wriggling up through the gravel nests dug by their mothers in cool clear rivers throughout B.C. They are preparing for an epic 3,000-kilometre round trip to the open Pacific Ocean. They will feed 100 species, and on their return trip they will benefit every town they pass, providing fishing and tourism dollars and food security. They will nourish the ancient ceremonies essential to First Nation culture. They will provide for our forests. Whether many of these little fish make it through B.C. waters alive will be decided in federal court.
As a biologist and a grandmother, it is my duty to issue a warning. This is a moment after which B.C. will never be the same. Many wild salmon populations can no longer decline; if this abuse continues, they can only vanish. I offer foresight. Seize this moment while there is still time. Put the salmon farms on land and allow wild salmon to survive. They are a gift we will not be given twice.
c/ Globe and Mail April 3, 2021
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https://seawestnews.com/court-allows-baby-salmon-transfer-in-discovery-islands/
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https://seawestnews.com/court-allows-baby-salmon-transfer-in-discovery-islands/
I think they got lucky with the Judge they got
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“Despite the concerted misinformation campaign that some anti-aquaculture ENGO groups have waged against marine aquaculture, in the end, such groups failed to prove any negative impacts of fish farming on the marine environment,” she said.
https://seawestnews.com/washington-okays-fish-farms-using-science-rejects-activism/
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“Despite the concerted misinformation campaign that some anti-aquaculture ENGO groups have waged against marine aquaculture, in the end, such groups failed to prove any negative impacts of fish farming on the marine environment,” she said.
https://seawestnews.com/washington-okays-fish-farms-using-science-rejects-activism/
this is to raise triploid steehead, a native species and sterile. I suppose raining non-native fertile atlantic salmon as is done in BC is not supported by science? Not by this decision using your logic.
Cheers
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this is to raise triploid steehead, a native species and sterile. I suppose raining non-native fertile atlantic salmon as is done in BC is not supported by science? Not by this decision using your logic.
Cheers
is raising steelhead tiploids in open nets acceptable to you or were you just pointing out the inconsistent logic?
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I would say history is science.
https://salmonbusiness.com/millions-of-atlantic-salmon-intentionally-released-to-b-c-waters/
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I would say history is science.
https://salmonbusiness.com/millions-of-atlantic-salmon-intentionally-released-to-b-c-waters/
No history is not science. Because it didn't happen doesn't mean it won't. The Brown trout population in the Cowichan popped up out of no where 20 years after they were stocked.
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is raising steelhead tiploids in open nets acceptable to you or were you just pointing out the inconsistent logic?
preferable but perhaps not acceptable.
Would the the ruling have been different if it was proposed to use farm stock Atlantics? The Seawest Propaganda article doesn't say nor does it provide a link to the ruling though it does state that the WDFW found " ...that farming steelhead posed no significant risk to the marine environment." doesn't say a word about Atlantics". Puget Sound has some of the worst water qaulity issues for an inland marine waterway in the PNW. We'll see if it improves as a result of the farm.
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https://seawestnews.com/activists-correct-their-fishy-science-about-salmon-virus/
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https://seawestnews.com/lets-get-the-facts-right-about-aquaculture-mr-risley/
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Thankfully, this is starting to get some traction again.
https://biv.com/article/2021/05/debilitating-virus-spreading-wild-salmon-through-fish-farms-say-ubc-researchers
Debilitating virus spreading to wild salmon through fish farms, say UBC researchers
A UBC study using genomic sequencing has found the piscine orthoreovirus has been transmitted from B.C. fish farms to wild Pacific chinook for at least a decade, leading researchers to call for a "precautionary approach" to salmon farming
Sadly, 4 or 5 years ago, DFO was supposed to produce 8 reports on salmon health and possible dangers to them.
They only produced one report saying PRV didn't affect Sockeye but it's clear that it mostly affects Chinook.
Google "piscine orthoreovirus".
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“He also argues that the paper’s authors “are an isolated group (not representative of the entire Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO)) who continually focus on activist research against aquaculture and ignore contradicting evidence”.
https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/prv-was-in-canada-before-salmon-farming-says-fish-vet/?fbclid=IwAR1-EKAKhMwhmwZ8DMiutMS_vuxmaYAGY1JOeZtG28ldjq0DRFZl62Ol7F0
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“Dr. Hugh Mitchell, an aquaculture veterinarian, with more than 30 years of experience, agreed that the latest paper has more to do with activism against fish farms than science.”
https://seawestnews.com/10-million-program-hijacked-by-anti-salmon-farming-activists/?fbclid=IwAR0Bco9-6HiGOFFY0iFnB_MGweO8M-C1ggERt7oBUGv958BlQglQJ8PuXQY
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https://www.atlanticfishfarmers.com/media-releases-all/2021/6/18/support-for-salmon-farming-remains-strong-in-atlantic-canada
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Fine, let Atlantic Canada farm atlantic salmon. I believe that fish farms on the west coast are harmful to our five wild salmon species. I do not believe that atlantic salmon should be 'farmed' on the west coast. Is that only because atlantic salmon are easier to raise instead of coho or chinook?
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https://globalsalmoninitiative.org/en/about-salmon-farming/
https://www.aquaculture.ca/canadian-farmed-salmon
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https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/testimony-again-showed-a-high-level-of-ignorance-letter/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR2nU_wKtdWxgsvYXTKSnnKpZkWGPydSzNPWT6QIkNz3qX07ps9x6wu3CzM
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https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/opinion/testimony-again-showed-a-high-level-of-ignorance-letter/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&fbclid=IwAR2nU_wKtdWxgsvYXTKSnnKpZkWGPydSzNPWT6QIkNz3qX07ps9x6wu3CzM
A letter to the editor is the best you can do? By someone in the aquaculture industry? How about some real facts?
https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/study-tofino-fish-farm-sea-lice-infestations-add-fuel-to-push-to-remove-open-pens/
"In 2018, Bartlett said B.C. fish farms developed a resistance to the SLICE, an infeed sea lice treatment, that resulted in the highest spike of sea lice ever recorded.
At one point during the spring out-migration of wild salmon, Bartlett said the industry reported as many as 50 sea lice per fish on a farm site.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada reported the average number of sea lice per fish in 2018 was 13.
“The number of sea lice were definitely better in 2019, but they are still quite high. They weren’t fully able to prevent sea lice outbreaks on farms.
Within the terms of licence, they have to keep below three motile lice per fish on farm and they still haven’t been able to keep below that number in either 2019 or 2020,” Bartlett said.”
“Last year, they went over nine separate times. That number was designed to help prevent impacts on wild juvenile salmon during their migration,” said Bartlett, adding that in Norway the motile lice per fish has gone down to 1.5 lice per fish in some areas."
Sea lice are pink smolt killers.
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https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22599
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-science-and-social-acceptability-according-to-bernadette-jordan/
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https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22599
over 10 years out of date. Sea lice near BC Fish farms have developed and continue to develop resistance to sea lice treatment agents.
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-main-driver-of-fish-production-globally/
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-main-driver-of-fish-production-globally/
I don't think there is a doubt that there is an ever increasing demand for the product but i think the fish farming industry has dropped the ball a bit. IMO when international company's are listed on stock exchanges they really start pushing to maximise profits. Each year we need to see attest 7% growth in profits no matter what you do we don't care just get it done. When you look at ways to do that it you have two options you can increase revenues or you can cut costs. Increased revnus mean more fish farm sites and ever growing. If you cant get more sites approved then you will have to cut costs. How do you do that? more fish in the pens, less staff, less maintenance.
IMO fish farms probably failed to piviot about 10 years ago, should of went with less profit margins looked at ways to build relationships with first nations and have local agreements that worked.
I do support fish farms, IMO they fill a need a need that's not going away but they do need to reinvent themselves in BC.
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https://seawestnews.com/ubc-study-debunks-claims-by-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
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Fine, let Atlantic Canada farm atlantic salmon. I believe that fish farms on the west coast are harmful to our five wild salmon species. I do not believe that atlantic salmon should be 'farmed' on the west coast. Is that only because atlantic salmon are easier to raise instead of coho or chinook?
They're becoming extremely unwanted there because of things like this:
https://i.cbc.ca/1.1520493.1379106424!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/hi-ns-lunenburg-beach-close-8col.jpg
No sewage for 50 miles down the coast and that is treated. It's happened 5 or 6 times in the last years and not before. The only culprit releasing raw sewage is the Saddle Island fish farm a mile off the coast of the beach.
https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/environment/sea-lice-are-decimating-atlantic-salmon-and-climate-change-is-making-the-situation-worse/
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https://www.aquaculturenorthamerica.com/from-the-editor-globe-mail-piece-is-more-than-just-about-wild-salmon/
https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-will-give-america-climate-friendly-food-security/
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https://seawestnews.com/ocean-farmers-challenge-dishonest-diatribe-of-anti-aquaculture-activists/
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https://griegseafood.com/news/statement-by-tlowitsis-nation-and-grieg-seafood-bc?fbclid=IwAR1ykcFecB_NFvS30mHYvN9UQa57DBY7kymK0-ufr97UiEhdOElPrB7XGp8
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https://seawestnews.com/net-gains-from-aquaculture-for-first-nations-businesses/
https://seawestnews.com/first-nation-wants-more-salmon-farms-in-its-traditional-territory/
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-advocates-must-dispel-myths-about-ocean-farming
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https://seawestnews.com/make-a-pledge-to-know-us-urge-bc-salmon-farmers/
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They're becoming extremely unwanted there because of things like this:
https://i.cbc.ca/1.1520493.1379106424!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/hi-ns-lunenburg-beach-close-8col.jpg
No sewage for 50 miles down the coast and that is treated. It's happened 5 or 6 times in the last years and not before. The only culprit releasing raw sewage is the Saddle Island fish farm a mile off the coast of the beach.
https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/environment/sea-lice-are-decimating-atlantic-salmon-and-climate-change-is-making-the-situation-worse/
Great info from the 2 young lads about the sad lack of recognition by the powers that be on the plight of the farms and there affect on water quality .
Good to hear that BC 's government stance is appreciated
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https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/oceaninnovation/
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-salmon-farms-pathogen-risk-1.5770154
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-48266480
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https://blogs.umass.edu/natsci397a-eross/solutions-to-unsustainable-salmon-farming-practices/
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/01/is-farming-salmon-bad-for-the-environment
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https://healyeatsreal.com/farmed-salmon-dangers/
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https://thehealthyfish.com/common-myths-about-farmed-fish/
https://www.deeptrekker.com/resources/10-common-fish-farm-misconceptions
https://seawestnews.com/ubc-study-debunks-claims-by-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
https://salmonconfidential.wordpress.com/busting-the-myths/
https://www.imv-technologies.com/blog/debunking-the-myths-of-wild-versus-farmed-salmon
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-key-to-meet-food-demand-says-un/?fbclid=IwAR2wkvEciSeL-bOMA2y74DZNX2nOGs76uAACIXPmGYR-0Ywcp4dVnV8ceyY
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07/23/magazine/are-sprawling-fish-farms-coming-swallow-maine/
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https://pittnews.com/article/167335/opinions/opinion-a-pescatarians-plea-for-sustainable-seafood-consumption/
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https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=salnon+farm+pollution&docid=608011573621436105&mid=2CED04D55DDEC6A802612CED04D55DDEC6A80261&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
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https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=salnon+farm+pollution&ru=%2fvideos%2fsearch%3fq%3dsalnon%2bfarm%2bpollution%26FORM%3dHDRSC3&view=detail&mid=36894C61DE99E020218D36894C61DE99E020218D&rvsmid=2CED04D55DDEC6A802612CED04D55DDEC6A80261&FORM=VDRVRV
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https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/anti-salmon-farming-organizations-well-funded/
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https://pcma.news/vivian-krause-exposes-u-s-money-and-tactics-behind-canadian-environmentalism/
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https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/mowi-highlights-superior-quality-of-salmon-at-farm-in-activist-video/
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https://www.cheknews.ca/its-amazing-chinook-salmon-are-returning-in-surprising-numbers-to-cowichan-river-891199/
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https://salmonaquaculturescotland.wordpress.com/2018/03/11/why-salmon-farms-pollute/#:~:text=%20Why%20Salmon%20Farms%20Pollute%20%201%20%E2%80%9CA,by%20chemical%20therapeutants%20used%2C%20in%20the...%20More%20
http://www.ohea.on.ca/blog/the-environmental-impacts-of-open-net-salmon-farming-a-critical-review-and-recommendations-for-policy-in-canadian-aquaculture
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https://theferret.scot/fish-farm-pesticide-pollution-rise-2019/
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/activist-must-pay-fish-farm-75000-bc-court-rules/article13348016/
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https://sentientmedia.org/farmed-salmon/
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You guys should get a room ;D
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https://sentientmedia.org/farmed-salmon/
maybe we should eat chum instead.. rare wild delicacy
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https://sentientmedia.org/farmed-salmon/
". Plant-based diets have all the essential nutrients, including the right amount of omegas that our body needs. Becoming a vegan for the animals and the planet is the best thing you can do to minimize one’s contribution to the needless exploitation of farmed salmon and motivate others to be a part of the change. "
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Cows are plant based. The only thing that goes into them is plants.
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https://seawestnews.com/irrational-anti-salmon-aquaculture-activist-to-face-court-hearing/
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"According to court records, Staniford arrived on the B.C. scene in 2004 as a paid employee of Friends of Clayoquot Sound."
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https://seawestnews.com/documentaries-vs-shockumentaries-in-the-world-of-aquaculture/
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-propels-first-nations-tribal-communities-towards-self-reliance/
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https://seawestnews.com/plenty-of-salmon-for-bcs-killer-whales-study/
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https://worldanimalsvoice.com/2019/03/16/the-poison-from-the-salmon-farm-industry/
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https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/farmed-salmon-toxic-flame-retardants
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https://www.onemedical.com/blog/eat-well/farmed-salmon
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https://www.beliefnet.com/wellness/health/dr-andrew-weil/farmed-salmon-is-it-really-toxic.aspx#:~:text=A%20recent%20study%20made%20headlines%20when%20researchers%20found,10%20times%20the%20toxic%20load%20of%20wild%20salmon.
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https://seawestnews.com/salmon-species-matter-when-it-comes-to-fish-on-your-plate/
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https://www.aquaculturenorthamerica.com/sorting-through-the-noise-in-the-farmed-vs-wild-debate/
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https://nsapes.ca/sites/default/files/attachments/Sunday%205%20May%202013%20%20Pesticides%20from%20salmon%20farms%20poison%20Scotland's%20lochs.pdf
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https://www.thecompassionateroad.com/blog/2020/3/11/w757zfp9wlpu9120m44sd53h6h2uzt
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https://thefishsite.com/articles/problems-associated-with-salmon-farming
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https://www.fishfarmermagazine.com/news/salmon-farms-are-the-victim-of-wild-claims-and-myths/
https://salmonconfidential.wordpress.com/busting-the-myths/
https://salmonbusiness.com/vivian-krause-we-have-80000-bears-on-the-canadian-west-coast-so-we-need-a-lot-of-wild-salmon/
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https://seawestnews.com/fishy-fear-mongering-dominates-new-anti-salmon-farm-campaign/
“Our salmon production is totally dependent upon a healthy ocean environment and we are on the seas constantly monitoring the waters we work in…not in some downtown Vancouver office creating fear mongering propaganda so that the activists can get a paycheck.”
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-salmon-farms-pathogen-risk-1.5770154#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20suggests%20that%20the%20presence%20of,from%20organisms%20that%20cause%20disease%20in%20wild%20salmon.
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-fish-farms-undercount-sea-lice-salmon-risk-1.5718322
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https://www.douglasmagazine.com/controversy-salmon-fish-farms-british-columbia/
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https://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/what-got-me-started-uofa-complaint.html
https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/deeperdive/
“WHAT YOU MIGHT BE HEARING“
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https://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/what-got-me-started-uofa-complaint.html
https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/deeperdive/
“WHAT YOU MIGHT BE HEARING“
The only option FF have now is to pump as much money as possible into first nation agreements.
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-will-help-rebuild-salish-sea-tribal-leader/
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https://seawestnews.com/aquaculture-will-help-rebuild-salish-sea-tribal-leader/
Thanks Bob, They way its going to be going forward.
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https://www.tlowitsisnation.ca/2021/11/19/two-public-open-house-meetings-regarding-their-proposed-ga-guump-farm-site/
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https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/aquaculture-group-monitoring-data-refutes-claim-sea-lice-loads-on-wild-salmon-dropped-after-re-stocking-ban/?fbclid=IwAR1gT3oI_yoQo8TjpfHSiVkahG8SB25rGId3NWf-V1hAPhpjPb0rxYA7qd0#
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-salmon-farm-activists-trample-on-first-nations-rights/
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https://youtu.be/HFFrqNbq-EM
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https://longevity-box.net/farmed-salmon-one-of-the-most-toxic-foods-in-the-world/
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https://www.campbellrivermirror.com/news/aquaculture-group-monitoring-data-refutes-claim-sea-lice-loads-on-wild-salmon-dropped-after-re-stocking-ban/?fbclid=IwAR1gT3oI_yoQo8TjpfHSiVkahG8SB25rGId3NWf-V1hAPhpjPb0rxYA7qd0#
Report from SFU last year on lice counts at fish farms.
https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2020/09/study-suggests-sea-lice-on-salmon-is-under-reported-at-b-c--salm.html
Our team found that when DFO is auditing the farms, industry counts increased, on average, by almost 20 per cent for one species of sea louse, and nearly doubled for the other species.
So when DFO is not auditing, which is most of the time, the reported industry counts seem to be underestimates.
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https://seawestnews.com/theatre-of-aquaculture-absurdities-set-for-2022-season/
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https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/highlights/alaskan-fishers-intercepting-bc-salmon-at-jarring-rate-4943714
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https://seawestnews.com/washingtons-top-court-rejects-claims-by-anti-fish-farm-activists/
“ In a scathing ruling, Judge Mandy Aylen said that “Morton’s proposed affidavit contains untested hearsay evidence, contains improper opinion evidence under the guise of being factual evidence.”
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-fish-farm-activists-kill-80-aquaculture-jobs-in-surrey/
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I sure wish these same activists would lobby as hard for something that might benefit salmon, say something like getting off our collective asses and doing something about the Big Bar slide. A high water year will devastate a third straight brood line for early run sockeye and chinook, and AFAIK absolutely nothing is being done to solve this problem.
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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/federal-decision-on-fish-farms-prompts-closure-of-b-c-processing-plant-company/ar-AASSqF2?ocid=hplocalnews
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I sure wish these same activists would lobby as hard for something that might benefit salmon, say something like getting off our collective asses and doing something about the Big Bar slide. A high water year will devastate a third straight brood line for early run sockeye and chinook, and AFAIK absolutely nothing is being done to solve this problem.
Is it time to nudge Joyce Murray to wake the Liberals from their stupor into action? Bernadette Jordan wasn't up to the task any more than Andrew Wilkerson was. Breasts on a boar.
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There is no money on the other side for ENGO lobbies to push for big bar.
If BC fish farms get removed, then alaska wild salmon prices go up
If BC herring fishery gets removed. Then Alaska herring prices go up
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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/debris-from-fishing-oyster-farms-lurks-underwater-in-bc-endangering-sea-life/ar-AATdmre?ocid=ACERDHP17&li=AAggNb9
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https://seawestnews.com/cooke-wins-aquaculture-boundary-expansion-in-nova-scotia/
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https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/modern-aquaculture-sustains-treaty-rights-and-tribal-food-security/
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https://salmonbusiness.com/aquaculture-has-no-adverse-impact-on-wild-salmon-or-orcas-in-puget-sound-concludes-noaa/
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https://seawestnews.com/coastal-communities-at-risk-if-salmon-farm-licences-expire-premier-horgan/
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Hey Bob, good to see you're still fighting the good fight ;) Liking John more and more, lol!
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https://seawestnews.com/respect-our-rights-to-salmon-farming-say-first-nations/
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It's a sad day when fish farmers ride on the coat tails of First Nations to get what they want.
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/n-s-aquaculture-salmon-farms-keith-colwell-1.5445728
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https://nasf.is/en/norway/
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https://fishfarmnews.blogspot.com/2018/09/toxic-sea-lice-chemicals-norway-is.html?m=1
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HFFrqNbq-EM
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https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/business/reopening-hundreds-of-jobs-to-be-had-in-surging-atlantic-seafood-industry-100710759/
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https://www.aquaculturenorthamerica.com/viewpoint-a-faustian-pact/
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https://www.cpac.ca/episode?id=734869e2-93fd-47a9-a832-110bec7073a6&fbclid=IwAR20y5h_ALwLhD8WaWaW0HoLvGgsZkytowEmWyJm5HnkrEpXzbUZfgv6Z5I
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https://seawestnews.com/bc-first-nations-in-ottawa-to-fight-for-salmon-farming-rights/
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https://seawestnews.com/land-based-salmon-farming-not-for-us-first-nations-coalition/
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https://seawestnews.com/land-based-salmon-farming-not-for-us-first-nations-coalition/
seems like the writing is on the wall in the name of "social acceptability"
Don't vote for NDP or Liberals bob
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Bob's American...
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https://biv.com/article/2022/04/clock-ticking-salmon-farm-licences
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Why a federal salmon study that found viruses at B.C. fish farms took 10 years to be released
For ten years, Kristi Miller-Saunders could not fully disclose the results of her study that showed a virus spreading among fish-farmed salmon in British Columbia.
The federal Fisheries Department in the government of Stephen Harper would not release the 2012 report into open-net fish farms, a position that continued with the Trudeau government.
In March, the federal Information Commissioner ordered the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) to release the information that found pathogens among open-net fish farms in the province. The commissioner ruled that suppressing publication of the document was not justified. “The complaint is well-founded,” the commissioner said of a request to access the material.
Dr. Miller-Saunders, who was a key author of the 2012 report, expressed frustration that it took until March of this year for the findings to finally surface. The study found that fish-farmed salmon suffered from jaundice and anemia because of the highly contagious Piscine orthoreovirus (PRV). This virus is associated with organ failure in chinook although it is not considered harmful to humans.
Dr. Miller-Saunders said PRV continues to be identified as a threat to wild Pacific salmon, notably Chinook and coho, and a transmission risk between farmed and wild salmon.
“Moreover, sequence epidemiology, similar to what has been done to track the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in humans, shows that the virus originated in Norway and spread to North America some 30 to 35 years ago, and is being actively transmitted between farmed and wild salmon in B.C.,” she wrote in her statement.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-salmon-study-that-found-viruses-at-fish-farms-released-10/
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These finding were intentionally suppressed by DFO:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe2592
https://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2018-0008
https://www.psf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Findings-from-the-Strategic-Salmon-Health-Initiative-SSHI-related-to-Piscine-orthoreovirus-in-British-Columbia-FINAL_0.pdf
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https://seawestnews.com/their-aim-is-to-spread-fear-not-facts-about-salmon-farming/
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https://hashilthsa.com/news/2022-04-19/ahousaht-chief-stands-behind-fish-farms-his-territory
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https://civileats.com/2020/12/07/some-first-nations-are-fighting-fish-farms-in-british-columbia-to-protect-their-waters-and-cultures/
Still, support for the farms among community members is mixed.
“The hereditary chiefs and Chief of Council work for Cermaq. They protect the company. They are getting rich off of it, but Ahousaht is poor,” says Len John, an Ahousaht member who runs a small boat charter and water taxi company. “We, the people, don’t see that money. We have homeless people, elders with homes that are gutted, with no running water.”
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https://bangordailynews.com/2022/04/20/news/hancock/aquafarms-salmon-farm-permit-terminated/
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https://seawestnews.com/ocean-farmers-challenge-dishonest-diatribe-of-anti-aquaculture-activists/
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2020/12/measures-to-phase-out-salmon-farming-in-the-discovery-islands-area.html
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https://www.mindbodyhealth.com/farmed-raised-salmon-toxic-junk-food/
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https://www.canada.ca/en/fisheries-oceans/news/2020/12/measures-to-phase-out-salmon-farming-in-the-discovery-islands-area.html
yeah this is the area that was supported by the cohen commission and also an area where first nations don't want them.
I support the removal in this area
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https://www.mindbodyhealth.com/farmed-raised-salmon-toxic-junk-food/
Spot prawns
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=spotshrimp.printerfriendly
Status
Shrimp are an important component of Alaskan marine ecosystems. They once supported large and historically important commercial fisheries in the late 1950s through the early 1980s, particularly in the central and western Gulf of Alaska. Recent commercial harvests are much smaller in volume and are predominantly from Southeast Alaska.
Pot fisheries targeting spot shrimp have historically occurred in protected embayments, largely in Southeast Alaska and to a lesser extent in Prince William Sound. The pot fisheries in Southeast Alaska grew rapidly in the 1990s and are now capped at about 800,000 ib. with most of the harvest being taken in southern and central Southeast. Pot fishing in Prince William Sound had been closed since the early 1990s due to low stock abundance. This fishery reopened in 2010. Spot shrimp fisheries in Southeast Alaska are largely stable.
Trends
The spot shrimp fishery on the West Coast of North America, extending from Alaska to California, has great potential to be an exception to the ecological and social destruction that typifies many shrimp fisheries. This potential is a function of several factors:
the ecological sensitivity of spot prawns and their critical habitat has been recognized and reflected in most of the fishery’s management
the fishery is primarily a community-based fishery, with a great deal of fisher involvement in management
the high-value and expanding markets for spot prawn product lead to a greater “value” placed on the conservation and sustainability of the species
managers commonly recognize that constant refinement and improvement of the management system is a prerequisite for long-term sustainability
Threats
Shrimp—harvested in the wild or produced via aquaculture—are generally characterized as among the most unsustainable of all global fisheries. Destructive fishing methods, vast quantities of bycatch, loss of habitat, and coastal pollution are only a few of the serious environmental and social problems that have been associated with the wild harvest and aquaculture of shrimp. Yet shrimp is also one of the fastest-growing and most lucrative global and domestic seafood markets.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of shrimp consumers do not know that the unsustainable production and harvest of shrimp is devastating ecosystems and local communities. Moreover, they have no way of identifying or ordering sustainably produced shrimp in a restaurant or supermarket. There is a critical need to establish an ecologically certified, sustainable shrimp fishery that can be used to educate consumers, shift seafood demand to more ecologically sound products, and dramatically reduce demand for unsustainably produced seafood.
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Spot prawns
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=spotshrimp.printerfriendly
Status
Shrimp are an important component of Alaskan marine ecosystems. They once supported large and historically important commercial fisheries in the late 1950s through the early 1980s, particularly in the central and western Gulf of Alaska. Recent commercial harvests are much smaller in volume and are predominantly from Southeast Alaska.
Pot fisheries targeting spot shrimp have historically occurred in protected embayments, largely in Southeast Alaska and to a lesser extent in Prince William Sound. The pot fisheries in Southeast Alaska grew rapidly in the 1990s and are now capped at about 800,000 ib. with most of the harvest being taken in southern and central Southeast. Pot fishing in Prince William Sound had been closed since the early 1990s due to low stock abundance. This fishery reopened in 2010. Spot shrimp fisheries in Southeast Alaska are largely stable.
Trends
The spot shrimp fishery on the West Coast of North America, extending from Alaska to California, has great potential to be an exception to the ecological and social destruction that typifies many shrimp fisheries. This potential is a function of several factors:
the ecological sensitivity of spot prawns and their critical habitat has been recognized and reflected in most of the fishery’s management
the fishery is primarily a community-based fishery, with a great deal of fisher involvement in management
the high-value and expanding markets for spot prawn product lead to a greater “value” placed on the conservation and sustainability of the species
managers commonly recognize that constant refinement and improvement of the management system is a prerequisite for long-term sustainability
Threats
Shrimp—harvested in the wild or produced via aquaculture—are generally characterized as among the most unsustainable of all global fisheries. Destructive fishing methods, vast quantities of bycatch, loss of habitat, and coastal pollution are only a few of the serious environmental and social problems that have been associated with the wild harvest and aquaculture of shrimp. Yet shrimp is also one of the fastest-growing and most lucrative global and domestic seafood markets.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of shrimp consumers do not know that the unsustainable production and harvest of shrimp is devastating ecosystems and local communities. Moreover, they have no way of identifying or ordering sustainably produced shrimp in a restaurant or supermarket. There is a critical need to establish an ecologically certified, sustainable shrimp fishery that can be used to educate consumers, shift seafood demand to more ecologically sound products, and dramatically reduce demand for unsustainably produced seafood.
Strike prawns from the menu. A family member used to drop a few tubs of spot prawns off to us now and again. I haven't bought them in years.
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From Tradex Foods:
This week we report on the dying Pacific Salmon populations in British Columbia Canada, as the political chaos within Canadian fisheries management over open-net Farmed Atlantic Salmon and Wild Pacific Salmon make international headlines. In 2021, only 660,000 Pacific Salmon were commercially harvested in B.C. waters compared to over 40 million Salmon in 1991 - which is over 30 years ago, when DFO was first alerted that Wild Salmon in B.C. might be in trouble. Take a look at this exclusive clip of what Alexandra Morton, (a Canadian Biologist who has studied Pacific Salmon for the last thirty years) had to say about recent headlines relating to DFO's suppression of the virus research.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU69uVinpAQ
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https://biv.com/article/2022/04/federal-court-overturns-order-shut-down-salmon-farms
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Former federal Fisheries and Oceans Minister Bernadette Jordan breached the rights of B.C. salmon farmers to procedural fairness when she ordered all salmon farms out of the Discovery Islands, a Federal Court judge has ruled.
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/federal-court-overturns-order-to-shut-down-salmon-farms-5299534
In light of all the information coming forward regarding intentional government cover-ups of the negative impacts of these farms, I consider this a serious setback.
And yet another nail in the coffin for our own salmon stocks...
Sad Day
Nog
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http://blog.farmfreshsalmon.org/
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https://seawestnews.com/false-facts-matter-to-bcs-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
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https://seawestnews.com/the-lying-games-by-bcs-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
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https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/aquaculture/cooke-sustainability-lawsuit-dismissed-animal-welfare-group-exploring-legal-options
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https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2022/06/10/does-ottawa-have-selective-hearing-when-it-comes-to-salmon-farming-in-bc/
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https://seawestnews.com/canada-renews-79-licences-for-bcs-salmon-farmers/
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https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-assert-traditional-rights-to-farm-salmon/
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https://seawestnews.com/new-book-rehashes-false-claims-about-salmon-farming/
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https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-to-shape-the-future-of-aquaculture-in-bc/
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https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/must-reads/stop-the-bleeding-bc-groups-call-on-alaska-to-halt-interception-of-canadian-salmon-5186658
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DFO Suppresses Science and Pushes Salmon Farms, Critics Tell MPs
Tyee article claims DFO has suppressed publicly funded papers that show open net salmon farms harm wild salmon and that internal DFO steering committees responsible for risk assessments were stacked with Salmon farm employees, contractors and DFO Aquaculture specialists. Perspective of Salmon farming advocates are also presented;
https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/05/13/DFO-Suppresses-Science-Pushes-Salmon-Farms/
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https://seawestnews.com/nova-scotia-seeks-public-input-on-aquaculture-expansion/
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https://seawestnews.com/bcs-anti-salmon-farming-activist-gets-it-wrong-again/
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https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-school-minister-about-salmon-farming-in-bc/
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https://seawestnews.com/idea-of-growing-salmon-on-land-is-a-dead-horse/
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Somebody works for seawest news. Who?
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0tgaQkEQoYU
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https://seawestnews.com/fishy-salmon-farming-ban-by-franz-under-fire/
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https://seawestnews.com/salmon-farmers-dominate-global-protein-sustainability-rankings-report/
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https://seawestnews.com/why-atlantic-canada-wants-aquaculture-to-keep-growing/
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https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2022/12/10/fish-farm-rights-are-ocean-management-rights-for-b-c-first-nations/
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https://seawestnews.com/politically-self-serving-fish-farming-ban-challenged-in-washington/
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https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/news/government-of-canada-science-report-confirms-no-statistically-relevant-association-regarding-sea-lice-and-the-production-of-farmed-salmon/
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https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/news/government-of-canada-science-report-confirms-no-statistically-relevant-association-regarding-sea-lice-and-the-production-of-farmed-salmon/
Must be fake news, lol!
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I find it very telling that the groups like BC Salmon Farmers spin the report to suit them.
They sound like Republicans who openly lie and hope no one fact checks them.
The report talks about Sockeye salmon not being harmed by sea lice but the fish farming groups spin it to say all salmon are not harmed.
Here's a quote from the top of the article:
A new peer-reviewed Science Response Report published on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada’s (DFO) website by the Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat (CSAS) concludes that sea lice on farm-raised salmon does not impact sea lice levels on wild juvenile salmon in British Columbia.
However, the body of the report refers to no impact on Sockeye. Sockeye are quite large after rearing in a lake and sea lice don't kill them.
Pinks and Chum are fry when they enter the ocean and are killed by sea lice.
Also, PRV kills Chinook salmon but some of the other reports state that PRV doesn't affect Sockeye, no mention of Chinook.
The symbiotic relationship between DFO and salmon farmers is troubling.
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https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
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Your link doesn't support your claims.
Kibenge et al. 2013 proposed that PRV first arrived in BC from Norway sometime around 2007. However, recent testing of archived samples held by DFO has revealed that PRV has been present in salmonids on the Pacific coast of North America salmon since 1987 and possibly as early as 1977 (Marty et al. 2015; Siah et al. 2015)..
And when did fish farming start in BC:
https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/history/#:~:text=BC's%20original%20fish%20farmers%20date,the%20BC%20Salmon%20Farmers%20Association.
BC’s original fish farmers date back to only the mid-1970s and 1980s
Studies exposing Norwegian Atlantic salmon to purified PRV showed that exposed fish replicated virus and developed histophathological lesions diagnostic of HSMI, establishing PRV as the causative agent (Wessel et al 2017)
And what country do all of the fish farm companies in BC call home - Norway.
I recall that, early on, Atlantic eggs were imported from Norway by the parent companies.
One more thing, fish farms companies release diseased fish into the ocean - which is illegal but DFO does nothing about it.
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“I recall that, early on”?
https://griegseafood.com/bc-wild-pacific-salmon
“ Historically, Atlantic salmon were stocked by the provincial government into BC waters more than a century ago in the hopes of establishing salmon populations for recreational fishing. In 1905, 200,000 salmon were introduced into lakes and streams on the BC mainland and Vancouver Island. By 1935, over eight million Atlantic salmon had been unsuccessfully introduced into BC fresh waters.
None of these attempts were successful in establishing Atlantic salmon on BC’s Pacific coast. They were not able to spawn in streams or rivers, possibly because the existing Pacific salmon species are considered more aggressive and outcompeted them for food resources and freshwater spawning grounds.” a
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Pacific salmon for the win.
https://www.1stchoicecharters.com/king-salmon-chinook/
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https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/invasive/salmo-salar
“ Numerous attempts were made in the 20th century by agencies on the Pacific coast to introduce and establish Atlantic salmon. The most recent effort by WDFW was in 1981, when attempted introductions were made via the release of cultured Atlantic salmon smolts. No adult Atlantic salmon returned as a result of the releases.”
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/millions-of-atlantic-salmon-introduced-to-b-c-streams-since-1905
“Nearly 200 introductions were made into 52 different water bodies and a total of 13.9 million eggs, alevins, fry or smolts were introduced,” according to a 2017 report to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).“
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You're posting gibberish that has nothing to do with the topic at hand - I thought a marketing person for one of the fish farm companies could do better than that.
Your first and third posts talk about attempts by the government to establish Atlantic salmon in Pacific waters a hundred years ago.
Your second post talks about salmon fishing in New York.
I personally don't have a problem with fish farms.
I just don't want them in BC killing native Pacific salmon.
It tells you a lot that Atlantic fish farms have been banned in Washington, Oregon, California and Alaska.
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I personally don't have a problem with fish farms.
I just don't want them in BC killing native Pacific salmon.
When and where has salmon farming in BC killed native Pacific salmon? Time to leave your feelings behind or buck up with the documented scientific proof.
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https://davidsuzuki.org/story/suppressed-science-shows-fish-farms-endanger-wild-salmon/
PRV causes anemia and jaundice in farmed salmon and can spread to wild salmon. The study found it’s uniquely damaging to Chinook, causing their blood cells to rupture, leading to kidney and liver damage.
https://watershedwatch.ca/top-3-reasons-open-net-pen-salmon-farms-threaten-wild-salmon/
Read the comments - there are dozens of links outlining the damage done by fish farms.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/virus-killing-farmed-pacific-and-atlantic-salmon-raises-risk-for-wild-b-c-population-study-1.3918507
Scientists have discovered that a highly-contagious virus impacting farmed Atlantic salmon also harms their Pacific cousins.
https://environment.geog.ubc.ca/something-is-fishy-salmon-farming-on-the-b-c-coast/
Evidence has been found that suggests a clear correlation between sea lice abundance and commercial salmon farms (Noakes et al, 2008), where the crowded pens provide ideal conditions for the parasites to thrive. As juvenile wild salmon migrate to the ocean from the surrounding rivers, these estuaries teeming with parasites infestations, become prime killing grounds for the young fish
That is a small portion of the information you can find with a Google search.
I won't post any links to Morton's information as it probably gives fish farmers strokes.
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https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aah-saa/species-especes/aq-health-sante/prv-rp-eng.html
Your links do not provide any information where and when wild stocks have been decimated by farmed salmon. It seems to me that wild stocks transfer common diseases to farmed salmon that enter the farms disease free and your links are full of speculation that foreign funding has paid for.
https://fairquestions.typepad.com/files/follow-the-money-2.pdf
Btw. Try to keep up with the times on the sea lice debate.
https://bcsalmonfarmers.ca/news/government-of-canada-science-report-confirms-no-statistically-relevant-association-regarding-sea-lice-and-the-production-of-farmed-salmon/
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Are you blind?
I even quoted the relevant text from the websites.
If you look at the actual DFO published report, it tells a different story than what the farm promotion websites have twisted it to.
The role of farmed salmon, particularly farmed Atlantic Salmon, as potential reservoirs of L.
salmonis is accepted (Saksida et al., 2015).
The title of your "report" says:
Government of Canada science report confirms “No statistically relevant association” regarding sea lice and the production of farmed salmon.
Table 3 of the DFO report shows the weekly sea lice counts at an average of 65 fish farms was as high as 10,257,985,037 in 2013 and 2018.
there are about 750 fish farms in BC so the total sea lice counts are astronomical.
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https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/archive/2001-2005/2002agf0020-000827.htm
“Fish farms are havens for massive outbreaks of disease.”
In fact, there is no recorded instance in B.C. of bacterial or viral disease moving from farmed salmon to wild stocks. Diseases like IHN are a threat to production but pose a very low risk to wild stocks and absolutely no risk to human health. As well, all smolts put into fish farms are inspected to be free from the virus.“
https://biv.com/article/2023/01/sea-lice-farmed-wild-salmon-insignificant-csas
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https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/archive/2001-2005/2002agf0020-000827.htm
“Fish farms are havens for massive outbreaks of disease.”
In fact, there is no recorded instance in B.C. of bacterial or viral disease moving from farmed salmon to wild stocks. Diseases like IHN are a threat to production but pose a very low risk to wild stocks and absolutely no risk to human health. As well, all smolts put into fish farms are inspected to be free from the virus.“
https://biv.com/article/2023/01/sea-lice-farmed-wild-salmon-insignificant-csas
you are aware the first link was an op/ed piece published close to 20 years ago.
the second reported a finding of "no statistical significance" which by itself means nothing, based on a review of previous studies which it means it provides no new information.
Neither addresses the question of disease transfer.
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https://seawestnews.com/their-aim-is-to-spread-fear-not-facts-about-salmon-farming/
https://seawestnews.com/ubc-study-debunks-claims-by-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
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The UBC study actually has different findings than debunking claims by anti-salmon farming advocates:
here is another summary not from a Salmon farming PR mouthpiece:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210526150216.htm
"Both our genomic and epidemiological methods independently came to the same conclusion, that salmon farms act as a source and amplifier of PRV transmission," said Dr. Gideon Mordecai, a viral ecologist and Liber Ero fellow with UBC Science and researcher with UBC Medicine, who led the study. "Because separate lines of independent evidence all point to the same answer, we're confident in our finding."
Sequencing of 86 PRV genomes helped researchers track the history of PRV emergence in British Columbia. They estimate that the lineage of PRV in the North East Pacific diverged from PRV in the Atlantic Ocean approximately 30 years ago. This suggests that the introduction of PRV to B.C. and infection of wild Pacific salmon is a relatively recent phenomenon, coincident with the growth of salmon aquaculture in the province -- not dating back to early attempts to introduce Atlantic salmon to the region, starting in 1874.
...
Our finding that PRV is transmitted between farmed and wild salmon is particularly relevant given recent field and laboratory studies showing the lineage of PRV in B.C. is likely to cause disease in both Pacific and Atlantic salmon" says Dr. Mordecai. A recent Norwegian study found that a Canadian isolate of the virus causes heart lesions in Atlantic salmon. More importantly to the Pacific ecosystem, PRV has been associated with a different disease in Chinook salmon in which blood cells rupture, leading to kidney and liver damage. These are in contrast to the DFO's assessment that PRV is not a disease agent.
from the State of Alaska Department if fisheries:
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/species/disease/pdfs/fishdiseases/piscine_orthoreovirus.pdf
PRV is reported from Norway,Denmark, Ireland, Chile, Japan and the Pacific Northwest (WA, AK, BC, Canada) infecting Atlantic salmon, Pacific
salmon and trout (cutthroat, steelhead,sea-run brown). In Alaska, PRV was sequenced from three stocks of coho and one stock of Chinook and unconfirmed
in one stock of chum salmon
Troubling that other governments recognize this when ours does not.
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Does it matter anymore, been around for 30 years and the best that any study can say is that it may cause jaundiced is farmed chinook.
farm from a smoking gun for salmon survival that some believe.
Also that's only one example of PVR there is also Native PRV to the pacific not linked to Atlantic.
I don't believe there is anything showing PRV to be causing declines and killing of pacific salmon. Also a virus that old and spread thought out the population for years means the population likely has high natural immunity to it.
I believe DFO looked at its effects on sockeye population and found that it was not a viral agent in sockeye.
Cristy miller i believe study said it caused jaundice of the liver in farmed chinook. It does however caused deises in farmed Atlantic salmon.
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Yes it matters. Contrary to what the Salmon farming industry says there is evidence that PRV transmission from farmed to wild salmon may be harmful particularly among chinook; "PRV has been associated with a different disease in Chinook salmon in which blood cells rupture, leading to kidney and liver damage".
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Yes it matters. Contrary to what the Salmon farming industry says there is evidence that PRV transmission from farmed to wild salmon may be harmful particularly among chinook; "PRV has been associated with a different disease in Chinook salmon in which blood cells rupture, leading to kidney and liver damage".
there is midwater shrimp trawlers that kill thousand of juvenile chinook in the SOG every year. Quantifiable
PRV is endemic now that's my point it doesn't matter, remove the farms the PRV is still here
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PRV is endemic now that's my point it doesn't matter, remove the farms the PRV is still here
Excellent point, one I had not considered. Not sure if the European strain of PVR causing all the fuss would be considered endemic yet but certainly there would be some form of immunity, thus the zero known mortalities?
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Excellent point, one I had not considered. Not sure if the European strain of PVR causing all the fuss would be considered endemic yet but certainly there would be some form of immunity, thus the zero known mortalities?
how can it be proven there are zero moralities in the wild?
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how can it be proven there are zero moralities in the wild?
I am not aware of any documented PRV induced mortalities, are you?
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Well absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Likewise one or even more studies that fail to produce a statistically significant result does not eliminate the possibility of causation. Such results don't in and of themselves indicate anything. They just fail to find a significant relationship. That's something learned in a basic grounding in experimental design often lacking even at the grad school level. Much of what been has been said to dismiss PRV as a threat to salmon is based on logical fallacies.
According to the latest genetic studies PRV has been in the Pacific for about 30 years. Has the number of salmon gone up, down or remained static over that time period? If you agree it's gone down there needs to be careful thought given to issues like PRV and jaundice syndrome.
Personally I don't think it is wise to write off any possible factor without serious study.
PRV has shown it can infect chinook, coho and rainbow/steelhead at minimum.
PRV is associated with jaundice in salmon. Jaundice is not a disease it's a symptom of a underlying physiological issue such a blocked bile duct or liver damage or failure. I can be a symptom of a very serious condition. It may also may impede development, survival in the wild and spawning success and have a significant effect on population levels. Many necropsies do find damage to the liver and spleen.
Jaundice syndrome is also not unique to salmon. Almost every study of fish with jaundice syndrome can't identify a casual agent though most suspect a virus. Infectivity studies that inject live materiel from diseased fish into healthy fish often don't produce a significant infection rate in the healthy specimens.
That could because by the time the jaundice occurs the casual agent is no longer transmissible.
Please keep in mind we have just had a 3 year crash course on how quickly viruses can mutate and dodge the efforts of medicine to control their spread. Let's not be complacent.
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So that's a no.
I agree we should not be complacent, however imo there are far greater dangers to Pacific salmon, especially Fraser fish.
I also personally know DFO'S lead scientist who works on this issue and have huge respect for his integrity. In other words I believe him over Almo and the others with their anti salmon farming rhetoric.
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That's fair enough Dave. As yet there is no indication PRV is a major threat.Salmon face so many threats it's hard to know which one's to prioritize or even change.
However I am very much against the Salmon Farm industry PR campaigns which IMO are essentially anti-science . Disagreements among scientists and contradictions within the body of research are common. The involvement of those with direct financial interests are invariably negative. In the worst cases it's lead to unnecessary suffering and death,ie tobacco and cigarettes yet the major tobacco companies still deny there is a link to health issues. The salmon Farming industry seems to use a similar playbook in response to critics. I also think DFO has been placed in an untenable conflict of interest as has been confirmed in many studies and Royal Commission investigations
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For 10 years DFO blocked publication of studies sponsored by DFO such as that by Dr Kristi Miller-Saunders that found a link between PRV and disease in wild salmon. Dr Miller-Saunders says that “It is really a travesty that the study could not come to light 10 years ago, and that the findings associated with this virus have been so contentious in Canada, as the role that this virus plays in disease development in salmon in other countries is not disputed”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-salmon-study-that-found-viruses-at-fish-farms-released-10/
https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/05/13/DFO-Suppresses-Science-Pushes-Salmon-Farms/
In another study published last month DFO states that the lack of statistical significance between sea lice populations and salmon farms means that sea lice infestations cannot "solely be explained" by the presence of farms. Please note that they did not say the lack of statistical significance proves fish farms do not cause such infestations but there may be other factors.
Not considered is the fact that since the collapse of a entire year's return of pink salmon in the Brougton Archipelago, salmon farms have been required to follow sea lice protocols that include monitoring lice densities around the farm pens, the use of anti-lice pesticides and even moving farm pens away from salmon migration pathways. Please note that even without such controls we have no assurance that farms are not part of the cause for harmful lice infestations:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dfo-study-sea-lice-1.6724476
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‘Serious scientific failings’: experts slam DFO report downplaying threat of salmon farms
A Fisheries and Oceans Canada study found no significant link between sea lice at B.C. salmon farms and on wild salmon, prompting scientists to express ‘professional dismay’
"one of the worst pieces of science I’ve ever seen come out of a government agency..."
On January 30, he and 15 other academic scientists wrote to Fisheries and Oceans Minister Joyce Murray to share their “professional dismay at serious scientific failings” in the report.
“This report falls far short of the standards of credible independent peer review and publishable science,” the letter, which was made public Thursday, says.
There are over 30 peer-reviewed scientific papers from B.C. that link sea lice on wild juvenile salmon with salmon farms, and many more papers internationally,” the scientists note.
The DFO report “in no way overturns the accumulated scientific evidence that salmon farms are one of the primary drivers of sea louse infestations on nearby wild juvenile salmon,” they write.
https://thenarwhal.ca/bc-dfo-sea-lice-report/
Within the last 10 years it was common for Salmon Farming industry spokes people and associated public individuals to claim there was not a single peer reviewed scientific paper that had established a direct link between salmon farming and harmful sea lice infestations in BC. Now there are dozens yet DFO and the Industry continues to down play or even ignore this body of evidence.
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Ha, I was sick for a few days and had time to stir the pot.
Went to the beach a few days ago and ran into a nice woman I know and have been preoccupied for a bit.
Glad to see others pick up the torch against all the bs that gets posted here by the pro-farmers and DFO-types.
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'A scientific sin': 16 Canadian salmon scientists claim DFO sea lice report was manipulated
16 scientists slam a recent DFO report that found salmon farms had an "insignificant" impact on wild salmon infestations — claiming the report's authors cherry-picked data, ignored scientific consensus and failed to consult with experts outside the department.
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/a-scientific-sin-16-canadian-salmon-scientists-claim-dfo-sea-lice-report-was-manipulated-6493604 (https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/a-scientific-sin-16-canadian-salmon-scientists-claim-dfo-sea-lice-report-was-manipulated-6493604)
I think a spirited scientific debate is long past due on the role of salmon farms and disease/parasite effects on salmon. For too long it was based on what the section of DFO that supports the farms said. To say otherwise was to be muzzled. That's exactly what happened to me some years ago when I was told "you can't say..." such and such. Time for change.
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'A scientific sin': 16 Canadian salmon scientists claim DFO sea lice report was manipulated
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/a-scientific-sin-16-canadian-salmon-scientists-claim-dfo-sea-lice-report-was-manipulated-6493604 (https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/a-scientific-sin-16-canadian-salmon-scientists-claim-dfo-sea-lice-report-was-manipulated-6493604)
I think a spirited scientific debate is long past due on the role of salmon farms and disease/parasite effects on salmon. For too long it was based on what the section of DFO that supports the farms said. To say otherwise was to be muzzled. That's exactly what happened to me some years ago when I was told "you can't say..." such and such. Time for change.
there is lots they cant say for example dfo cannot say how much is allocated to each band for FSC.
Where did you work Ralph?
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https://youtu.be/sEF4qtxjwyM
Dr. Simon Jones - Impacts of Parasites on Wild Salmon Populations
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https://youtu.be/dXtzo1eoqp4
Dr. Sonja Saskdia - Major Diseases in Wild Salmon and Transmission from Salmon Farms
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Good, now shut down the rest of the 750 fish farms in BC.
https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/15-bc-salmon-farms-closed/wcm/ae4fa1f0-816d-4374-996e-f43615791b5e
Fisheries Department to shut 15 salmon farms off B.C.’s coast to protect wild fish
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Good, now shut down the rest of the 750 fish farms in BC.
https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/15-bc-salmon-farms-closed/wcm/ae4fa1f0-816d-4374-996e-f43615791b5e
Fisheries Department to shut 15 salmon farms off B.C.’s coast to protect wild fish
750 lol did you even read what you posted
there's 79 farms left
"Fisheries and Oceans said last summer that open-net salmon farms may continue operating during a consultation process, with the final plan to transition 79 farms expected to be released later in the year."
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You're right - I did a Google search a few weeks ago that said 750 but that included shellfish farms.
It's even better than I thought - should be a simple matter to close the remaining few.
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yeah everyone thinks there is thousands of farms lining our coast.
there is not
its why removing them isent going to increase salmon numbers anywhere near what the anti fish farm lobby has sold them on
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https://seawestnews.com/controversial-salmon-farming-decision-heads-back-to-court/
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https://seawestnews.com/controversial-salmon-farming-decision-heads-back-to-court/
Not unexpected but i thought they probably would not challenge this one.
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So it is ok to import farmed salmon?
https://seawestnews.com/science-vs-sovereignty-in-the-fight-to-farm-salmon/
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https://theconversation.com/the-colour-of-farmed-salmon-comes-from-adding-an-antioxidant-to-their-feed-with-benefits-for-everyone-201344
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https://seawestnews.com/lawsuits-mount-against-unlawful-discovery-islands-aquaculture-decision/
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https://www.aquaculturenorthamerica.com/podcasts/dr-gary-marty-the-fish-doctor/
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https://seawestnews.com/imagination-runs-wild-with-bumper-pink-salmon-returns/
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https://seawestnews.com/anti-aquaculture-activists-recycle-debunked-sea-lice-data-again/
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https://seawestnews.com/this-is-salmon-farming-with-sam-tomkinson/
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https://weareaquaculture.com/news/aquaculture/bc-anti-salmon-farming-activists-slip-on-the-peer-review-process/39410/
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https://weareaquaculture.com/news/aquaculture/bc-anti-salmon-farming-activists-slip-on-the-peer-review-process/39410/
does not look like third party data so the antis will never accept it
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does not look like third party data so the antis will never accept it
much like the pro side dismissal of any evidence that supports the anti side.
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much like the pro side dismissal of any evidence that supports the anti side.
Hey Bill, good to see you're still kicking! Sad though, you still haven't seen the light, lol :) ;)
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https://seawestnews.com/minister-urged-to-steer-aquaculture-transition-with-balanced-approach/
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https://seawestnews.com/former-fisheries-ministers-accused-of-unlawful-conduct-in-lawsuits/
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https://seawestnews.com/former-fisheries-ministers-accused-of-unlawful-conduct-in-lawsuits/
wonder if this will get settled outside of court
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Hey Bill, good to see you're still kicking! Sad though, you still haven't seen the light, lol :) ;)
I saw lots of light when I went to Nova Scotia to find my favourite beach closed down by a Cooke aquaculture site pollution. :P
But I did have a nice cross country drive. I'm liking retirement and fishing the local lakes. Salmon Arm is awesome!
(I still haven't run into Shuswap Steve so I could buy him lunch and correct his poorly informed views. I do know where his office is.)
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https://seawestnews.com/courts-rein-in-anti-salmon-farming-activist-us-politician/
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https://seawestnews.com/why-anti-salmon-farming-activists-fear-canadas-new-fisheries-minister/
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https://seawestnews.com/seafood-farmers-rip-aquaculture-report-by-parliamentary-committee/
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https://seawestnews.com/seafood-farmers-rip-aquaculture-report-by-parliamentary-committee/
they have lost public sentimate, the fat lady is singing
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https://seawestnews.com/first-nations-call-for-nine-year-renewal-of-salmon-farming-licences/
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Fish Farms Meant to Boost Wild Salmon Numbers are Killing Them; Newsweek
https://www.newsweek.com/farmed-salomon-face-negative-impacts-1855981
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Salmon Escaping Farms Are Wreaking Havoc on Wild Fish; Newsweek
https://www.newsweek.com/salmon-escaping-farms-are-wreaking-havoc-wild-fish-1851418
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When it comes to Sea Lice numbers, Canada's standards just don't measure up to the rest of the world:
https://www.thetyee.ca/News/2023/12/26/Canada-Sea-Lice-Limits/
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https://seawestnews.com/the-world-needs-more-aquaculture-says-the-un-food-agency/
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https://seawestnews.com/factually-incorrect-anti-salmon-farming-ads-removed-again/
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https://seawestnews.com/false-facts-matter-to-bcs-anti-salmon-farming-activists/
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https://seawestnews.com/mandate-muddle-mars-aquaculture-transition-plan-in-british-columbia/
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Thanks Bob, appreciate your passion.
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It's becoming a truism that by-lines such as "...based on facts and science" mean the writers have an interest in anything but...
A quick media search yielded over half a dozen articles that stated open pen fin fish aquaculture is not allowed or being phased out in Oregon Washington and Alaska. The Sea West Article claims that is not true but cites no evidence, state laws or regulations to the contrary.
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https://seawestnews.com/will-a-ban-on-sports-fishing-replenish-wild-salmon-stocks/
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Good to see a lot of FF's closed since I last posted a while ago but I see Bob is still with them. :'(
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https://watershedwatch.ca/stories/fish-farms-kill/?fbclid=IwAR0urXvQoEOHcuDt587WRAyaJ-v8U_WUi63LU0gx9uV3mbXaMu-cmwUHVa0
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https://seawestnews.com/mega-science-review-showcases-the-realities-of-salmon-farming-in-bc/