Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1309416 times)

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1050 on: October 02, 2014, 10:42:11 PM »

http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/02/12/aquaculture-america-blog-us-aquaculture-farmers-missing-out-on-anti-trust-exemption-law/

Feb. 12, 9:21pm: Gulf of Mexico should replicate Alaska hatchery system, professor says

The Gulf of Mexico would benefit from taking a note from Alaska’s playbook, Daniel Benetti, professor and director of aquaculture at the University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science, told Undercurrent.

“I consider the wild salmon fisheries in Alaska to be perhaps the most successful aquaculture initiative ever developed in the United States,” Benetti said, referring to Alaska’s robust hatchery program, which supplies the fishery with a significant chunk of the fish caught in the wild each year. “I think perhaps we should apply that concept to the Gulf [of Mexico].”

The Gulf could be restocked with red snapper, red drum and any and all other native species to that area.

Wild?  “Wild salmon fisheries”?  Well, they are not wild.  Using this logic means we should be calling hatchery salmon that are cultured in hatcheries wild salmon?  Juvenile salmon produced by ranch operations are artificially propagated so how can he call them “wild”.  I am not totally against hatcheries because there is a place for them and the folks here in this province do a good job with them, but I think it’s hilarious that fish farm opponents try to convince people that ranched salmon are wild.  With ranching operations, selected adult salmon are stripped of eggs and milt with the fertilized eggs cultured in a hatchery.  In the wild, do we go out in the river in our waders and start selecting which male salmon are going to mate with what female salmon or are both sexes allowed to pair-up naturally on the spawning grounds?

With ranching operations, the hatched juveniles are transferred from freshwater to saltwater net pens where they are continued to be cultured.  During this time they are fed feed pellets which can include antibiotics when required.  They can also be received vaccinations because they are now in an environment and at a size where they are even more vulnerable to pathogens.  Diseases like IHN are threats and can result in ranched salmon having to be destroyed (Hmmm…where have we heard this before???); however, protocols are in place to help reduce the risk of these diseases (Hmmm…would salmon hatcheries and salmon farms have protocols for pathogen control also?).  This fish husbandry helps give them a head start and improves their survival early in their life cycle.  Once large enough to compete for resources with wild salmon, these cultured salmon are released into the ocean where they forage for food and hopefully return back to the area of their release.  Ranched salmon make up close to 40% of the commercial catch in Alaska.  These ranching operations (also in Japan and Russia) have been successful, but when you look at the recent literature now at what cost to wild salmon?
Logged

troutbreath

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2908
  • I does Christy
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1051 on: October 03, 2014, 03:49:39 PM »

Well they seem to be doing pretty good as in no regular mass infections and fish being trucked off to the dump like around here.

There stats on the good work:
 http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/fishing/PDFs/hatcheries/2013_ak_hatcheries.pdf

and again because they banned salmon farming it has upset some folk. But if they raised them in land based tanks the same folk would be upset......it is what it is.
Logged
another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

rjs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • work is over rated !!!!
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1052 on: October 03, 2014, 07:10:46 PM »

Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1053 on: October 03, 2014, 07:11:03 PM »

The Russians and the Japanese have been doing pretty good also with salmon ranching, but at what cost?  That's what the recent literature is saying - even those groups like Watershed Watch Salmon Society who are staunch critics of ocean net pen salmon farming are saying the same thing.
Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1054 on: October 03, 2014, 07:39:13 PM »

http://www.farmed-salmon-boycott.com/news/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon/

just filling in for Chris !

Morton latest attempt at glory is another case of trying to connect the dots by stretching/bending the lines, but omitting other information in order to make the case.  Her theory also neglects to mention the other factors that may be involved.  So much for other things mentioned in the Cohen Final Report.  Nope...it has to be the number of salmon farms, but as you can see below her data is incorrect.  It's been a tough season for her campaign because the salmon are not doing what she thought they would do.  The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.

http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf
Logged

rjs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • work is over rated !!!!
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1055 on: October 03, 2014, 08:26:29 PM »

Morton latest attempt at glory is another case of trying to connect the dots by stretching/bending the lines, but omitting other information in order to make the case.  Her theory also neglects to mention the other factors that may be involved.  So much for other things mentioned in the Cohen Final Report.  Nope...it has to be the number of salmon farms, but as you can see below her data is incorrect.  It's been a tough season for her campaign because the salmon are not doing what she thought they would do.  The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.

http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf

but steve thats just from the the farmers mouth ! back peddling as usual !
Logged

Fisherbob

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1346
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1056 on: October 03, 2014, 08:27:01 PM »

http://www.farmed-salmon-boycott.com/news/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon/

just filling in for Chris !
Looks like Doc Morton does not know there are good and bad years for salmon returns. Making out like there will be good returns from now on is not the way to think. We knew there were odd and even year returns before net pens were thought of. Just taking a guess, next year will not be as good as this one. I hope it will be but if not, nature wins over our greed again.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:49:39 PM by Fisherbob »
Logged

rjs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • work is over rated !!!!
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1057 on: October 03, 2014, 08:29:33 PM »

and how much is this gonna cost us over taxed tax payers ? no 1 ever answered that !

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/30/algae-kills-280k-farmed-fish
Logged

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3377
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1058 on: October 03, 2014, 08:32:25 PM »

The diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye this season through Johnstone Strait was unprecedented this season at 99% - right by those salmon farms near Campbell River.
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/090314_correction_morton_september_3_2014_blog_fraser_river_sockeye_return2.pdf
Wonder how she will explain this one  :)
Mothership imploding ...
Logged

troutbreath

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2908
  • I does Christy
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1059 on: October 03, 2014, 08:47:55 PM »

So your saying that the sea lice are more fatal to adult sockeye?

Or are the fish farms getting heavy handed with the SLICE on the lice?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Logged
another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

rjs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • work is over rated !!!!
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1060 on: October 03, 2014, 08:55:10 PM »

So your saying that the sea lice are more fatal to adult sockeye?

Or are the fish farms getting heavy handed with the SLICE on the lice?

Inquiring minds want to know.

think half of them were dead already TB with the major blum created by there feces !!!
Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1061 on: October 03, 2014, 09:08:54 PM »

but steve thats just from the the farmers mouth ! back peddling as usual !

How can it be back peddling. It's publicly posted information that Morton got wrong. Are you saying that this map is wrong?

http://www.salmonfarmers.org/sites/default/files/all_companies_2013-07_out_migration_sites.pdf

No mention of missing data from Ms Morton huh?  Why do you think she omits those years? Why are other factors from Cohen are not mentioned? 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:13:53 PM by shuswapsteve »
Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1062 on: October 03, 2014, 09:10:21 PM »

Looks like Doc Morton does not know there are good and bad years for salmon returns. Making out like there will be good returns from now on is not the way to think. We knew there were odd and even year returns before net pens were thought of. Just taking a guess, next year will not be as good as this one. I hope it will be but if not, nature wins over our greed again.

Are you talking about Pinks or Sockeye?
Logged

rjs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 367
  • work is over rated !!!!
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1063 on: October 03, 2014, 09:13:47 PM »

How can it be back peddling. It's publicly posted information that Morton got wrong. Are you saying that this map is wrong?

http://www.salmonfarmers.org./sites/default/files/all_companies_2013-07_out_migration_sites.pdf

No mention of missing data from Ms Morton huh?  Why do you think she omits those years? Why are other factors from Cohen are not mentioned?

but it's all put together by the farmers in there defense ! sorry...
Logged

Fisherbob

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1346
Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1064 on: October 03, 2014, 09:21:18 PM »

Are you talking about Pinks or Sockeye?
I was talking all salmon in general. And I ment it as I hope it will be as good as this year. :)
Logged