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Author Topic: Nice!  (Read 29501 times)

Novabonker

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Nice!
« on: October 25, 2015, 09:25:35 PM »

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/teen-soccer-player-muzzled-1.3285181

"You can find another program to play in or choose to do a different sport," says Roberts.( Marine Harvest spokesman )

Nice! Tow our line or get lost. Sad to see free speech being muzzled by the farm crew. Disgusting, reprehensible and gutless.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:40:18 PM by Novabonker »
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 10:36:37 PM »

So glad you brought this up, NB.  I was eagerly waiting.

Free speech being muzzled? Hardly? When individuals decide to play in organized amateur sports there are rules of conduct. Marine Harvest is the sponsor of this soccer team so it does relate to soccer. You can't do what the Reeds are doing. Amateur hockey, basketball and football are not any different.  Not earth-shattering.  It's funny to see this on Alexandra Morton's blog. So many clueless people on there....

However, when Anissa Reed says her opinions and social media comments on fish farming have nothing to do with soccer then why even raise them in that arena. In my opinion parents like her should keep the comments on soccer and not on a political agenda that has nothing to do with the development of these young people into future athletes. Go protest somewhere else.

Originally, it was about wearing the brand on the uniform, promotional photos and fundraising efforts so the association bent over for Freyja and said that she didn't have to comply with that (so she doesn't have to promote Marine Harvest). Basically, she was essentially given special treatment to accommodate her beliefs.  In return, the association reasonably asked that the Reeds refrain from criticism of Marine Harvest's sponsorship on social media. It has nothing to do with Freyja telling her friends why she isn't at a team event - it's about using social media to do what they are doing now.  Freyja was given a choice - she wasn't denied the opportunity to be with her teammates. She decided that her beliefs were more important....ok...so now she should honour that choice because the association did it's part to accommodate her without her driving hours somewhere else to play.

The Reed's got their wish.....Their daughter didn't have to wear the branding that they objected due to their beliefs. However, they kept wanting to slam the sponsor.  Well that goes beyond their original objections.  I don't blame the association for putting their foot down. Basically the Reed's opposition has less to with the branding and more with forwarding an agenda of anti-fish farming in the arena of amateur sport. They also were given the option of having their money back or finding a different program. She could even do a different sport.

Personally, it is unfair to the other players on the team that may not hold the same views as the Reeds yet they are dragged into this. Sponsorship helps pay needed training, jerseys, travel, coaching, etc.  Perhaps the other players and their parent appreciate the support from Marine Harvest; however, they do not dare speak against the Reeds or they will be targets on this Facebook page also like other opponents to their beliefs.  But of course the Reeds do not consider that at all - it's more about them right now and their plight. That's pretty selfish. And they are on their soapbox screaming about no rights and being muzzled. Laughable...lol.

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Novabonker

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 07:28:47 AM »

The constitution disagrees with you

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

    (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
    (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
    (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
    (d) freedom of association.
They're muzzled if she wants to play soccer Brian. Play your word games as you wish, but it's a simple case of shut up if you want to play soccer. But allow me to look at your reasoning......


So glad you brought this up, NB.  I was eagerly waiting.

Free speech being muzzled? Hardly? When individuals decide to play in organized amateur sports there are rules of conduct. Marine Harvest is the sponsor of this soccer team so it does relate to soccer. You can't do what the Reeds are doing. Amateur hockey, basketball and football are not any different.  Not earth-shattering.  It's funny to see this on Alexandra Morton's blog. So many clueless people on there....

So you're saying that the rules of soccer associations overrides the constitution? Sure .

However, when Anissa Reed says her opinions and social media comments on fish farming have nothing to do with soccer then why even raise them in that arena. In my opinion parents like her should keep the comments on soccer and not on a political agenda that has nothing to do with the development of these young people into future athletes. Go protest somewhere else.

Because it's her opinion Brian. Last time I checked, they were legal to have and express.

Originally, it was about wearing the brand on the uniform, promotional photos and fundraising efforts so the association bent over for Freyja and said that she didn't have to comply with that (so she doesn't have to promote Marine Harvest). Basically, she was essentially given special treatment to accommodate her beliefs.  In return, the association reasonably asked that the Reeds refrain from criticism of Marine Harvest's sponsorship on social media.

Let's simplify- Shut up or get out.

 It has nothing to do with Freyja telling her friends why she isn't at a team event - it's about using social media to do what they are doing now.  Freyja was given a choice - she wasn't denied the opportunity to be with her teammates. She decided that her beliefs were more important....ok...so now she should honour that choice because the association did it's part to accommodate her without her driving hours somewhere else to play.

If they don't shut up we'll punish them. It may look like we're donating money to soccer, but we should get good PR and silence dissent.

The Reed's got their wish.....Their daughter didn't have to wear the branding that they objected due to their beliefs. However, they kept wanting to slam the sponsor.  Well that goes beyond their original objections.  I don't blame the association for putting their foot down. Basically the Reed's opposition has less to with the branding and more with forwarding an agenda of anti-fish farming in the arena of amateur sport. They also were given the option of having their money back or finding a different program. She could even do a different sport.


Yep - We all wish to be told to shut up if we don't agree with something- just like you're doing now.

"You can find another program to play in or choose to do a different sport," says Roberts.( Marine Harvest spokesman )

Shut up or go elsewhere. Nice way to treat kids - Classy!




Personally, it is unfair to the other players on the team that may not hold the same views as the Reeds yet they are dragged into this. Sponsorship helps pay needed training, jerseys, travel, coaching, etc.  Perhaps the other players and their parent appreciate the support from Marine Harvest; however, they do not dare speak against the Reeds or they will be targets on this Facebook page also like other opponents to their beliefs.  But of course the Reeds do not consider that at all - it's more about them right now and their plight. That's pretty selfish. And they are on their soapbox screaming about no rights and being muzzled. Laughable...lol.




Sure Brian, carry on..... :o (BTW- You can call me Bill if you like ;)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 07:30:42 AM by Novabonker »
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Dave

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 04:44:39 PM »

Not a lot of responses Nova, perhaps they read Fisherbob's post yesterday ;)

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/corporate-branding-and-a-soccer-moms-awesome-fail/
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 09:09:54 PM »

The constitution disagrees with you

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

    (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
    (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
    (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
    (d) freedom of association.
They're muzzled if she wants to play soccer Brian. Play your word games as you wish, but it's a simple case of shut up if you want to play soccer. But allow me to look at your reasoning......

Sorry, but you don’t understand what that part of the constitution was intended for.  That part of the charter is not carte blanche for an individual to say and do as they wish.  As the link says below – it is not absolute.  Two of the most notable cases were Ernst Zundel and James Keegstra who were charged for promoting hatred against Jewish people.  Although both tried to argue that their views were protected by the charter – the courts saw it differently and for good reason because it was found to infringe on the rights of those they were impacting.  In addition, spreading obscenity and pornography would not be protected by that part of the charter nor would slander and libel.  Although some of these are on the extreme end of the spectrum it goes to show that the Section 1 is not a licence to say what you want all the time.

However, let’s look at other more familiar examples where a Section 1 challenge would not be very advisable like internet fish forms or online newspaper blogs.  Forums such as this have a code of conduct that members agree to abide by when they register.  These rules are meant to discourage members from using these boards to promote personal business as well as protect members from bullying, personal attacks, intimidation and offensive language.  Thus, if members attempt to do any these things they can have their posts deleted or edited without their consent, or in some cases have their membership terminated  ;) .  Members can express their views, but there are restrictions and they are reasonable to most people I would think.

In the case of amateur sports, there really is no difference – there are rules of conduct that participants abide when they sign up.  When they sign up they are agreeing to those rules.  Again, this is not something new – every amateur sport association has rules of conduct.  In this particular case, the conduct of this soccer association states (as it said in the CBC news article) any parent who engages in negative comments in social networks, texts, emails, website blogs, correspondence, bullying, gossip, misinformation, intimidation or any other activity as related to soccer is subject to discipline.  Marine Harvest is sponsor of this soccer team so it relates to soccer.  Do you believe that any other sport association, at the amateur or professional level, would permit its players or the parents of those individuals to bully and intimidate their sponsors in social media?  That’s not reasonable at all.  The charter was not intended to protect people from engaging in that sort of behaviour and I would highly doubt that the Reeds would have leg to stand on if they pursued it in court.  The Reeds can express their opinions on Marine Harvest, but not through the soccer association because it’s not the place to do (what the association is saying).

This is a decision from the soccer association – not Marine Harvest.  I find it strange that critics are blaming Marine Harvest when they really have nothing to do with enforcing these rules.  The question that should really be asked now is why is Freyja still playing on this particular soccer team, clearly benefiting from the financial resources Marine Harvest is putting into training and coaching, if she and her mother have these objections to Marine Harvest as a sponsor?  Seems kind of hypocritical to me because if this sponsor goes against everything they believe in then one would think they would choose a different team, league or sport.

Personally, I don’t buy the argument from the Reeds that they have little choice to comply because there is a choice, but they chose not to exercise it.  Freyja is not being denied to play soccer.  The issue is that the Reeds want their cake and eat it too.  The Reeds are not the only family that had to drive their kids distances to play sports.  An hour or slightly more than that is not an extreme burden, but again the Reeds have to weigh that against their beliefs.  In this case, they chose that the travel was too much, but that was their choice.  Others on the team likely didn’t get the same treatment that Freyja is getting by being exempted from certain functions and wearing branding.  It is also not reasonable for the soccer association to customize the optimal environment for every participant playing which takes into consideration their pet peeves, political views, likes and dislikes.  Like I said before, there are other people on the team to consider which the Reeds are ignoring.  That’s selfish.  Just because the choices are limited in the eyes of the Reeds doesn’t necessarily equate to them being disadvantaged in reality.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=20181.0
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/just/06.html

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swimmingwiththefishes

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 09:29:58 PM »

I don't get how you guys are justifying a corporate sponsor for muzzling people, who 'have an agenda'. Does everyone who speaks up about problematic business/environmental practices have an agenda? I'm a little confused.

It sounds a lot like Harper talking about people concerned about the pipelines and tankers dotting our coast as all radicals with an 'agenda'. 

How do we figure out those who have an 'agenda' versus those who don't? Please clarify.

Also the fish farming company should have known that putting themselves out into the community in such a way was going to get backlash, and actually probably make them look even worse with their attempt to muzzle. Why do companies make so many bad PR moves? Like those stupid Enbridge adds that ran for weeks showing fly fishermen and nature. Totally useless PR that actually makes people question why they would do this. This is the internet era people aren't dumb. They can look up all the problems with many different things with a click of a button.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 09:32:36 PM by swimmingwiththefishes »
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SPEYMAN

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 09:37:29 PM »

My question is, how did the news media find out about this issue? Did "mommy" get in touch with the media to cause this issue? There are a number of untruths in the news article.

The young lady advised her team that she was not able to attend the boating excursion as she had a previous engagement. There was no plan to visit a Marine Harvest farm on that trip. It just happened that the operator of the boat advised the team that there was a farm close by and would they like to see it.
It became a photo op for Marine Harvest and the team. How does that become a story that the young lady refused to attend the trip to a fish farm owned by the new sponsor?

How is it that the media was given information as to when and where the team was playing their games? Seems to me "mommy" is using her daughter to advance her own agenda.

I have been against fish farms on the B.C. coast prior to any being constructed, but to use a 14 year old as this "mommy" is doing is criminal.

"Mommy" was advised that she and her daughter were breaking the rules of the soccer league and to stop or go away. So "mommy" decided what she was going to do.

What about the "TEAM"? There is no "I" in team.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 09:57:24 PM »

I don't get how you guys are justifying a corporate sponsor for muzzling people, who 'have an agenda'. Does everyone who speaks up about problematic business/environmental practices have an agenda? I'm a little confused.

It sounds a lot like Harper talking about people concerned about the pipelines and tankers dotting our coast as all radicals with an 'agenda'. 

How do we figure out those who have an 'agenda' versus those who don't? Please clarify.

Also the fish farming company should have known that putting themselves out into the community in such a way was going to get backlash, and actually probably make them look even worse with their attempt to muzzle. Why do companies make so many bad PR moves? Like those stupid Enbridge adds that ran for weeks showing fly fishermen and nature. Totally useless PR that actually makes people question why they would do this. This is the internet era people aren't dumb. They can look up all the problems with many different things with a click of a button.

First, Marine Harvest is not muzzling anyone.  This policy is from the soccer association and they enforce their rules.

Second, you talk about an "agenda" by Marine Harvest, but Marine Harvest isn't the first company to sponsor a sports team - professional or amateur.  Does that mean that Molson Canadian doesn't have an "agenda" at hockey games or sport franchises it supports? What about Bell, Telus, Wal-Mart or McDonalds? When companys sponsor teams they typically advertise at events the team plays such as a logo on a jersey or in team advertising.  Not a new or unreasonable concept.  It's because the sponsor is Marine Harvest that this one particular family is making a stink. If it where another company they would not be so opposed to branding.

Lastly, you make it seem like everyone is in the community and the team is against Marine Harvest as a sponsor. Is this more of your own perception or what you have gauged from Alexandra Morton's blog (which is a poll of the choir really)?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 10:14:42 PM by shuswapsteve »
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Novabonker

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 10:16:49 PM »

Not a lot of responses Nova, perhaps they read Fisherbob's post yesterday ;)

http://www.alaskasalmonranching.com/corporate-branding-and-a-soccer-moms-awesome-fail/

143 looks Dave. One person stopping long enough to think about it is a win. Does anyone but you and Brian read Bob's posts anymore?

Exactly swimmingwiththefishes. Don't say anything and here's a reward. Speak your conscience and get kicked to the curb. To loosely quote  Vic Teows - you're either with us or you're with child molesters.
Steve you're really stretching things by comparing this to holocaust deniers. Pretty thin gruel. I think the soccer association would do well to look for a less controversial sponsor."individuals to bully and intimidate their sponsors in social media?" So who's the bully Steve? A child and her mother that hold views shared by a lot of people or the corporation(through the soccer association) that wants them to shut up or get out? Did you skip the part where the Mh official said to shup or go elsewhere or doesn't that suit you?
While you may not believe the Marine Harvest has anything to do with this( I've got a nice piece of Saskatchewan ocean front for you), then why give if there's strings attached? I donate lots of time and energy to amateur rugby, but if someone badmouths my business, I'm not going to tell them to go away or I'll shut my wallet

Yeah Steve - all soccer moms are holocaust deniers. ::) :o
 
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 10:40:44 PM »

143 looks Dave. One person stopping long enough to think about it is a win. Does anyone but you and Brian read Bob's posts anymore?

Exactly swimmingwiththefishes. Don't say anything and here's a reward. Speak your conscience and get kicked to the curb. To loosely quote  Vic Teows - you're either with us or you're with child molesters.
Steve you're really stretching things by comparing this to holocaust deniers. Pretty thin gruel. I think the soccer association would do well to look for a less controversial sponsor."individuals to bully and intimidate their sponsors in social media?" So who's the bully Steve? A child and her mother that hold views shared by a lot of people or the corporation(through the soccer association) that wants them to shut up or get out? Did you skip the part where the Mh official said to shup or go elsewhere or doesn't that suit you?
While you may not believe the Marine Harvest has anything to do with this( I've got a nice piece of Saskatchewan ocean front for you), then why give if there's strings attached? I donate lots of time and energy to amateur rugby, but if someone badmouths my business, I'm not going to tell them to go away or I'll shut my wallet

Yeah Steve - all soccer moms are holocaust deniers. ::) :o

If you had read what I wrote I clearly stated that some were extreme examples, but nonetheless show that the Chapter 1 is not a licence to say whatever you want and whenever. It doesn't work that way. However, I also showed more everyday examples (such as this forum) which are totally reasonable and where arguing the charter would be kind of futile, in my opinion.  If you disagree, go fight it in court and see where you get.  That would be the test right there.

No one is getting "kick to the curb"...lol!  That is a very big over exaggeration of the situation.

As for skipping parts you haven't touched the fact that there are other players on the team that may not share the views of the Reeds. What if they support Marine Harvest as a sponsor?

Why give it there are no strings attached? Do you understand commercial sponsorship, NB?  As for rugby, what your particular association decides it wants to tolerate is up to them, but these codes of conduct are not unusual in amateur sport.
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clarkii

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 05:05:27 PM »

The kid is 14.

You know the world is in a sad state when a 14 year old who wants to play a sport is being told off because she disagrees with a sponsor.    Obviously the league doesn't have their priorities in the right spot if thats the case. 
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 05:35:08 PM by clarkii »
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GordJ

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 07:20:15 PM »

The simple solution is for the anti farm people start their own sponsorship program.  Should be no problem to come up with $10,000 or $20,000 and with any luck half of the team will be from families that work at farms and we can see how far their definition of free speech goes.
I can't imagine an organization that would allow criticism of one of their backbone sponsors. Try criticizing Rods sponsors and see how long you last.
Especially for someone that was parachuted into their catchment area.
It is a weird world where a company that sponsors minor sports to this extent is criticized and vilified for donating money. If this girl came to Comox to play soccer as claimed , one reason that the organization is so desirable is because it is well funded.
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swimmingwiththefishes

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 07:42:40 AM »

The simple solution is for the anti farm people start their own sponsorship program.  Should be no problem to come up with $10,000 or $20,000 and with any luck half of the team will be from families that work at farms and we can see how far their definition of free speech goes.
I can't imagine an organization that would allow criticism of one of their backbone sponsors. Try criticizing Rods sponsors and see how long you last.
Especially for someone that was parachuted into their catchment area.
It is a weird world where a company that sponsors minor sports to this extent is criticized and vilified for donating money. If this girl came to Comox to play soccer as claimed , one reason that the organization is so desirable is because it is well funded.

You got your wish and good for Willie.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/teen-soccer-player-muzzled-1.3287555
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Novabonker

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Re: Nice!
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 08:35:05 AM »

Well Dave, it seems that there's a few more comments and more interest than you thought....... ;) Good on Willie!
Steve, if you're that naive to believe that Marine Harvest had nothing to do with this, reconsider the Saskatchewan ocean front property I was telling you about. Holocaust deniers verses a young girl's opinion on phish pharms. I'm still laughing at you for that weak and, well, pathetic defence. (See Marine Harvest's response about this issue)Too funny, you just can't make that stuff up.



Pros don't speak out? Read this...

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/florida-panthers-captain-willie-mitchell-not-a-fan-of-glenn-healys-analysis

« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 08:38:04 AM by Novabonker »
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