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[Sterling C]

So all flossers use long leaders? I can think of a couple types of water and instances where a 12-18" leader would be better for flossing than a 36" leader.

Its the anglers thought of mind and his/her actions that decide to floss (if theyre aware of what theyre doing), not their leader length, gear setup, gum boots or yellow rain coat that make them flossers. There are times when I go out in gum boots and rain gear yet I TRY not to floss fish, but it can still happen.

If you think a 36" leader is better for short floating you are simply delusional.

A shorter leader in the 12-18" range puts your bait exactly where you want it. With all that extra line between your weight and hook who's to say where your hook is floating, simply no control. Also, with that much extra slack in the line, how are you supposed to know if you have a bite?

I've been fishing some extremely clear water this year 20' + visibility and have still been using my standard 18" leader. Fish don't care about your weight.

[koko]

If you think a 36" leader is better for short floating you are simply delusional.

A shorter leader in the 12-18" range puts your bait exactly where you want it. With all that extra line between your weight and hook who's to say where your hook is floating, simply no control. Also, with that much extra slack in the line, how are you supposed to know if you have a bite?

I've been fishing some extremely clear water this year 20' + visibility and have still been using my standard 18" leader. Fish don't care about your weight.

Why some people using size 4 hook and 6lb test line for gin clear condition then. You can alway straighten your slack before your free float.

[Sterling C]

Why some people using size 4 hook and 6lb test line for gin clear condition then. You can alway straighten your slack before your free float.

Beacuse they aren't fishing right. I used to fish the size 4 hooks with a 3' leader because I thought the fish were weight shy. Turns out i was doing it wrong. I still see no point whatsoever in fishing a leader longer than 18" on the Vedder at any point in the year.

On notoriously low rivers such as the Chehailis during the summer time I have gone as long as 30" with my leader. It works fine if your using a jig or blade or something else to put tension on your line but it sucks to fish neutrally buoyant baits. You simply cannot properly detect bites.

If you feel the fish are weight shy, it probably means you are fishing slower water where the fish have longer to look at your presentation. In this situation its easier just to decrease your weight than lengthen your leader.

Anyone who uses a 3 foot leader on the Vedder and thinks all their fish are biting is just kidding themselves.

[Tex]

It works fine if your using a jig or blade or something else to put tension on your line but it sucks to fish neutrally buoyant baits. You simply cannot properly detect bites.

Amen.

[koko]

Beacuse they aren't fishing right. I used to fish the size 4 hooks with a 3' leader because I thought the fish were weight shy. Turns out i was doing it wrong. I still see no point whatsoever in fishing a leader longer than 18" on the Vedder at any point in the year.

On notoriously low rivers such as the Chehailis during the summer time I have gone as long as 30" with my leader. It works fine if your using a jig or blade or something else to put tension on your line but it sucks to fish neutrally buoyant baits. You simply cannot properly detect bites.

If you feel the fish are weight shy, it probably means you are fishing slower water where the fish have longer to look at your presentation. In this situation its easier just to decrease your weight than lengthen your leader.

You do know what you talking about

Anyone who uses a 3 foot leader on the Vedder and thinks all their fish are biting is just kidding themselves.

[koko]

You do know what you talking about

[Froodogga]

I neither said nor thought that a fly fisherman is better than anyone else.  I just take issue with comments that all fly fishermen are flossers or that the only proper way to fish is to short float.  And I just find it ironic that float fishing is the only realistic way to fish under combat conditions like at Tamahi or KWB.

I do not doubt that there are a few unethical flyfishermen, but I am willing to bet that there are a hell of a lot more unethical anglers using the float method.

You can try and stereotype me as a flosser, elitist or some rich guy with really expensive poseur equipment, but you would just be wrong in your assumptions.

It's not an assumption or stereotype, period...its simply the way fly lines are presented in the river and its simply a case where the flyfisherman is more of a flosser/snagger than the short floater.  Camo and slime lines to a 9 foot flourocarbon leeder/tippet to a size 10 fly is an obvious deception tactic.  I don't care if your fly line is a foot under the surface, mid water column or on the bottom, its going to floss/snag more fish than the short floater who uses pencil lead and a big gob of roe.  Fish travel in all columns of the river when the river is thick with fish, don't try and fool anyone saying that because your line may be 2-4 feet from the bottom that lowers your chances at flossing or snagging a fish.   Short floaters that use roe and spinners are targeting fish that "bite."  By using camo fly line, long leeders/tippets and a presentation smaller than a size 4 hook it becomes pretty obvious what the real intentions are.         

[milo]

It's not an assumption or stereotype, period...its simply the way fly lines are presented in the river and its simply a case where the flyfisherman is more of a flosser/snagger than the short floater.  Camo and slime lines to a 9 foot flourocarbon leeder/tippet to a size 10 fly is an obvious deception tactic.  I don't care if your fly line is a foot under the surface, mid water column or on the bottom, its going to floss/snag more fish than the short floater who uses pencil lead and a big gob of roe.  Fish travel in all columns of the river when the river is thick with fish, don't try and fool anyone saying that because your line may be 2-4 feet from the bottom that lowers your chances at flossing or snagging a fish.   Short floaters that use roe and spinners are targeting fish that "bite."  By using camo fly line, long leeders/tippets and a presentation smaller than a size 4 hook it becomes pretty obvious what the real intentions are.         

Frodogga, you have no clue about fly fishing, so please stop spreading misinformation. Ignorant posts as the above can only confuse newcomers to the sport. Remember once and for all and let's put this infantile debate to rest: it is all in the intention of the angler regardless of the equipment he/she chooses to use.
I can floss fish shortfloating wool with a 12" leader, with each and every fish being caught at the mouth. Likewise, I can snag fish with a fly fishing setup if I choose to do so.

Oh, and by BTW, proficient fly fishermen are much cooler dudes than bait chuckers.
That's why you dislike them so much - inferiority complex!

Cheers,

Milo (cross fisher and proud of it!)

[marmot]

The truth of the matter is, flyfishermen (in rivers and streams) snag, bb, floss or whatever you wanna call it as much as anyone else...Just cuz they use a fly and flyrod and try to fool the average float/roe chucker with fancy terms like t-14, type VI, .008 tippet, hemostats etc, they think they can escape the reality of what they really do...I wouldn't even call it elitist, more accurately I'd call it hypocritical.  So, when you see a flyfisherman on the river or stream, being one with nature, wearing his $200 set of neos, pulling flies out of his $80 monochromed sterling silver plated fly box, creating a beautiful cast with his $600 rod and playing a fish on his $400 reel, feel comforted knowing he is no better than anyone else that snags, bbs, or flosses fish...Just cuz he's fly fishing, "don't assume" he's any better than anyone else, only assume he thinks he is...

talk about assuming things on the river......  nice post    garbage like this doesn't do anything for anyone.

[Ed]

The truth of the matter is, flyfishermen (in rivers and streams) snag, bb, floss or whatever you wanna call it as much as anyone else...Just cuz they use a fly and flyrod and try to fool the average float/roe chucker with fancy terms like t-14, type VI, .008 tippet, hemostats etc, they think they can escape the reality of what they really do...I wouldn't even call it elitist, more accurately I'd call it hypocritical.  So, when you see a flyfisherman on the river or stream, being one with nature, wearing his $200 set of neos, pulling flies out of his $80 monochromed sterling silver plated fly box, creating a beautiful cast with his $600 rod and playing a fish on his $400 reel, feel comforted knowing he is no better than anyone else that snags, bbs, or flosses fish...Just cuz he's fly fishing, "don't assume" he's any better than anyone else, only assume he thinks he is...

At least we end up paying more taxes to pay for public expenditures lol

[ESF]

 

Its nice to be honest and a honest fisherman. Please don't misunderstand.....................
I treat everyone fairly but I've seen so much prejudice in Canada that its amazing. I will welcome you I like fishing room. We walk to avoid it but no one should fish within a poles reach of each other. The river is large. I've had groups of people (all nationalities) who have tried to get so close to annoy me so I will leave a hole. I've seen it both ways. You are refreshing and I'm glad you like fishing.

I'm from the US but own a Canadian home and I pay higher taxes and insurance but that is socialism. If a Canadian buys a home in the US, that won't happen.  Buying a BC home was my choice.  ALso, if I sell, 1/3 goes to your gov't.  There is more prejudice in Canada. Ours and the Canadian media have sabotaged what really occurs politically in the USA and that has hurt our relations.  Its similar to what is on the river. I'm from the US but Canadians and US people are to me, all Americans. Why am I called a Yankee?  Its OK, I like the country and its people.  I think you have more humor than the US.  I remind all the US people that we are visitors.  I also sway them away from knowing about the river.  I fear driving my own Washington state vehicle of fear of attacks.  I've lost over $3000 US in two vandals incidents toward my vehicle. I get annoyed with the prejudice and the people claiming they don't understand rules on the river. That irritates me. 

You've made a reminder of everyone treating each other fairly - which is good. If you correct those on the river, that is also good.
Hope to see you on the river. You can outfish me, I want get mad but I do ok too.

got my BC vehicle broken into in WA… while fishing. ICBC paid about 3 grand of my 4 grand total in losses (G note deductable)
everything depends who you talk to.

[ESF]

on a side note I am Asian and I don't even like salmon!!!
I catch and release all my fish! (unless my other Asian friend wants a salmon or two  ) 

My rig of choice for the river is a BB rig (w/ a short leader, i.e 16~24”)

[mvelasco]

i know what you mean....i watching the elder asians snag and bonk is pretty ugly.
but watching anyone do it is simply ugly.
oh well.
There is only a handful of people who actually fish for fun.

[Clarki Hunter]

Frodogga, you have no clue about fly fishing, so please stop spreading misinformation. Ignorant posts as the above can only confuse newcomers to the sport. Remember once and for all and let's put this infantile debate to rest: it is all in the intention of the angler regardless of the equipment he/she chooses to use.
I can floss fish shortfloating wool with a 12" leader, with each and every fish being caught at the mouth. Likewise, I can snag fish with a fly fishing setup if I choose to do so.

Oh, and by BTW, proficient fly fishermen are much cooler dudes than bait chuckers.
That's why you dislike them so much - inferiority complex!

Cheers,

Milo (cross fisher and proud of it!)

Method of fishing has NOTHING to do with snagging/flossing.  As Milo put it, it's the intent of the fisher... nothing more, nothing less.   That is obvious to everyone isn't it?

[hue-nut]

If you think a 36" leader is better for short floating you are simply delusional.

A shorter leader in the 12-18" range puts your bait exactly where you want it. With all that extra line between your weight and hook who's to say where your hook is floating, simply no control. Also, with that much extra slack in the line, how are you supposed to know if you have a bite?

I've been fishing some extremely clear water this year 20' + visibility and have still been using my standard 18" leader. Fish don't care about your weight.

my fishing buddy and I were nailing fish this year in the clear conditions on the vedder and now on some of the gin clear northern rivers with between 8" and 12" leaders! The bites in clear water can be so subtle that with a 24" or longer leader you will miss most actual bites. Mind you I am now fishing a clear 11g or 20g float with one or two large splitshot, so there is not much there to spook fish. Also if you watch fish in clear water, they will spook more from the size or color of your offering than a dull chunk of grey lead. I saw a fly guy the other day switch too a cerise colored fly and the fish absolutely freaked (in a bad way)