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Author Topic: Area E gets a 32 hour opening  (Read 35615 times)

Robert_G

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Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« on: August 24, 2010, 06:33:19 PM »

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=127224&ID=all

This is freakin unprecedented. I don't remember them ever getting a 32 hour opening.
For those who don't know where this is...this is the area of the Fraser mouth and sometimes as far upstream as the Mission Bridge.

For crying out loud, they just got an 8 hour opening yesterday...but after this opening, the Fraser will be devoid of any salmon....period...until at least Sunday...and that's if they don't get another opening right away. The entire river is about to be raped like never before.

They did this back in 1994, and DFO admitted that they were one commercial opening away from obliterating the run.  16 years pass by and they've forgotten all about it....Complete morons.
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Weatherby

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 07:17:11 PM »

Greedy,greedy
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iblly

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 07:41:05 PM »

this run has just been upgraded to 25,000,000. fish coming from every direction. not greed, necessity !
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Robert_G

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 07:42:59 PM »

I don't care if there are 100 million coming up...The river will lifeless after this 32 hour opening.
Not to mention there have been huge runs coming up this river for thousands of years...and it's never needed the 'help' of a commercial opening.
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iblly

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 07:44:39 PM »

too many returning is just as bad as none.
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Robert_G

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 07:55:39 PM »

There is no such thing as too many returning.
There have been years of strong runs of fish returning long before we had commercial fisheries...and the numbers were always there. The commercial fisheries like what is happening this year only ruins the runs.
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kosanin kosher salt

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:10:41 PM »

it can take all day to get your  2 fish on the weekend  , no matter how good of a bottum bouncer are you . im going to bring a cooler full of ice so that first fish dosent spoil in the sun
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ynot

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 09:13:57 PM »

its better to have gill netters in the fraser than purse seiners in johnstone st. they take much bigger numbers, of course they both are open. 17,000000 late run is much bigger than its 2006 brood year. maybe 4 for sports in area 2 would help to get the numbers down. or keep it open into sept 10-15th. in 1997 it was open till end of sept.
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BBarley

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 09:29:39 PM »

I'm sorry ynot, but how is having unselective gillnets stretched across the mouth of the river better than a purse seine in the marine approach areas???
Regardless of numbers, if the fishery is truly managed using an ITQ under a firm TAC, I would be more concerned about bycatch and stocks of concern such as the Cultus Lake sockeye.
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ricer

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 10:26:44 PM »

Wow... robert G.
I guess the commercial fisherman (one of which is my father who has fished this river for 60 yrs as did his father before him when he came from japan) forgot to consider your needs as a recreational fisherman.  May i just mention that these are the same men who were interned in greenwood with houses and boats seized and sold without consent only to return to Steveston and start over again... but i digress.

There are many issues that informed people need to take into consideration before spouting off nonsense and ignorance.  I get dragged into this every year....

History lesson

First off, 15 yrs ago or so and previous thousands of boats fished these same adams river run (following them) all the way from winter harbour (north tip of vanc island), to johnston straits, juan de fuca straits, sabeen chanel, and the fraser.  They fished for 10 months of the year with multiple 24 and 48 hour openings in the Fraser.  The trolled, gillnetted and seined.  They did this for decades up until about 15 yrs ago.   The runs were healthy and as we see today we are having a run of the adams that hasn't been seen for a century.  15yrs ago they started buying back lisences to reduce the fleet and today it is reduced by at least half.  They then made the commercial fleet choose only two areas that they could fish (something like this, i am not exactly sure) - they could no longer troll in winter harbour, then gillnet the straits, then fish the fraser - they had to choose.  Now, those who choose to fish the fraser have had a total of about 4 days in the  last 4 years fishing for sockeye.  Not to mention the nets have been reduced in size from 200 fathoms long ( 6feet per fathom) to 100 feet per fathom.

No doubt fishing has had a huge impact on stocks, especially smaller runs to begin with.  But it is interesting that decades of fishing go on fine until the last 15 - 20yrs when stocks really started declining in certain runs.  Again, the Adams somehow maintained strong numbers despite fishing. 

Other considerations
Fishing is not the only factor to consider.  Deforestation (causing silt and warmer tributaries = destroys spawning habitat), Pollution from ...everything, especially farms (juvinille salmon spend most of their time in backeddies and such where higher concentrations of pollutants exist), ocean conditions (unkown what happens out there), and fish farm (lice).

Why is it that last year a run of 10million was expected and only 1 million showed up - there was sufficient spawners and little fishing pressure on that run.  Why is it that the broughton archepeligo expecting millions of pinks was obliterated then 2yrs later come back with a vengence?  How is that this run on 14 million that had the only fishing pressure of any extent 4 and 8 yrs ago all of a sudden double in size to levels never before seen for 100yrs?


Commercial Fishing on the Fraser - the real deal
Obviously the numbers in the river when they get to hope will be reduced significantly enough to make it difficult for the Flossers out there to have optimal chances of hooking up.  But the first nations commercial opening (yes they get a seperate commercial opening, other than food fishing, from the rest of the commercial fleet) lasted 3 days -THEN the commercial fleet went out for 8 hrs and still the boats upriver did extremely well compared to the boats at the mouth - my point is FISH GET THROUGH!

HOW you ask.  TIDES!!!!   When the tide is running, netting at the mouth is very ineffective - the net lays sideways and are not deep enough (60 mesh) to catch the fish as they stick close to the bottom and the sides of the river looking for easier paths.  The only time the nets are effective is during slack and back up when the fish flood in and push up river.   This means optimal fishing only occurs for a few hours of each tide.  For example, we have fished for hours, back when the river was loaded with boats and 200 fathom nets, catching only 5 - 20 fish per set.  Then all of a sudden, as the tide slows and stops, the fish appear seamingly out of nowhere everywhere in the river.  TIDES ARE THE KEY.   

PURSE SEINE - unfortunately, purse seine definately hits hard.  It wasn't until the late 50's that the seine boat used drums and hydrolics adding to their efficiency.  instead of 2 sets a day they can make up to 10.  To compare a purse seine to a gillnet would be to compare a ping pong net to a tennis net.  That is why you will never see them in the mouth of the Fraser - that would obliterate the run.

TOO MANY SPAWNERS - as ibily mentioned, you can only have a certain number of spawners or the spawning beds are destroyed and numbers are reduced even more than they would be if an optimal # is allowed.  I'm sure there is a farming comparison in there somewhere. Robert G. -  Of course the gillnetters aren't there to help the numbers

Gillnetters - are not greedy.  they are just trying to make a living fishing legally when they are allowed to, by the powers that be.  They agree with management and want there to be fish for everyone.

Finally - If you want to complain, be informed, be respectful, and aim it at the right targets.

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milo

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 10:35:25 PM »

The above has to be the most educational and interesting post I have read in a long time on any fishing forum.
Thanks, Ricer.
Beer's on me when we meet.  :)
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one more cast

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 10:37:19 PM »

The above has to be the most educational and interesting post I have read in a long time on any fishing forum.
Thanks, Ricer.
Beer's on me when we meet.  :)

DITTO All the way here. Very informative Ricer, thanks.
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mattyo

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 10:38:04 PM »

Some very valid points there ricer. The one I disagree with is the thought that too many spawners will dig up redds and affect the eggs???  Is there any documented proof of this.
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ricer

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 10:41:41 PM »

forgot to mention, that of course the stocks have gone on fine for thousands of years but have they always been strong?  I don't have the info or the numbers to back that up but I bet robert G doesnt either.  I have heard that the runs have fluctuated as do all predator prey species, farmer fields, ect....  

If fish are going to die and eggs wasted, why not harvest if there is more than enough to perpetuate the species.  Obviously there were enough spawners 4, 8, 16, 24 ect... years ago and look at all the milllions of people around the world fed and happy!!!  I think this was a part of the BIG GUY's plans when he told us to manage and oversee his creation.  Hopefully we have learned from the mistakes in the east and judging by the returns this year we are on the right track.

What concerns me know a little is all the dead fish i have seen floating around steveston - anyone hear about what this is about?
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ricer

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Re: Area E gets a 32 hour opening
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 10:53:45 PM »

Interesting article
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/protecting-weak-stocks-may-be-key-to-salmon-recovery/article1589500/

check out this article mentioning management of too many spawners and protecting weaker runs.  The funny thing is they had a terrible year this year (or last year?).  Anyways just another example of proof that harvesting properly can work and the fact that there are things out of our control that affect returns.

I forgot to mention drift netting by other countries as well.
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