Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Robert_G on August 24, 2010, 06:33:19 PM
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http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=127224&ID=all
This is freakin unprecedented. I don't remember them ever getting a 32 hour opening.
For those who don't know where this is...this is the area of the Fraser mouth and sometimes as far upstream as the Mission Bridge.
For crying out loud, they just got an 8 hour opening yesterday...but after this opening, the Fraser will be devoid of any salmon....period...until at least Sunday...and that's if they don't get another opening right away. The entire river is about to be raped like never before.
They did this back in 1994, and DFO admitted that they were one commercial opening away from obliterating the run. 16 years pass by and they've forgotten all about it....Complete morons.
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Greedy,greedy
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this run has just been upgraded to 25,000,000. fish coming from every direction. not greed, necessity !
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I don't care if there are 100 million coming up...The river will lifeless after this 32 hour opening.
Not to mention there have been huge runs coming up this river for thousands of years...and it's never needed the 'help' of a commercial opening.
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too many returning is just as bad as none.
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There is no such thing as too many returning.
There have been years of strong runs of fish returning long before we had commercial fisheries...and the numbers were always there. The commercial fisheries like what is happening this year only ruins the runs.
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it can take all day to get your 2 fish on the weekend , no matter how good of a bottum bouncer are you . im going to bring a cooler full of ice so that first fish dosent spoil in the sun
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its better to have gill netters in the fraser than purse seiners in johnstone st. they take much bigger numbers, of course they both are open. 17,000000 late run is much bigger than its 2006 brood year. maybe 4 for sports in area 2 would help to get the numbers down. or keep it open into sept 10-15th. in 1997 it was open till end of sept.
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I'm sorry ynot, but how is having unselective gillnets stretched across the mouth of the river better than a purse seine in the marine approach areas???
Regardless of numbers, if the fishery is truly managed using an ITQ under a firm TAC, I would be more concerned about bycatch and stocks of concern such as the Cultus Lake sockeye.
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Wow... robert G.
I guess the commercial fisherman (one of which is my father who has fished this river for 60 yrs as did his father before him when he came from japan) forgot to consider your needs as a recreational fisherman. May i just mention that these are the same men who were interned in greenwood with houses and boats seized and sold without consent only to return to Steveston and start over again... but i digress.
There are many issues that informed people need to take into consideration before spouting off nonsense and ignorance. I get dragged into this every year....
History lesson
First off, 15 yrs ago or so and previous thousands of boats fished these same adams river run (following them) all the way from winter harbour (north tip of vanc island), to johnston straits, juan de fuca straits, sabeen chanel, and the fraser. They fished for 10 months of the year with multiple 24 and 48 hour openings in the Fraser. The trolled, gillnetted and seined. They did this for decades up until about 15 yrs ago. The runs were healthy and as we see today we are having a run of the adams that hasn't been seen for a century. 15yrs ago they started buying back lisences to reduce the fleet and today it is reduced by at least half. They then made the commercial fleet choose only two areas that they could fish (something like this, i am not exactly sure) - they could no longer troll in winter harbour, then gillnet the straits, then fish the fraser - they had to choose. Now, those who choose to fish the fraser have had a total of about 4 days in the last 4 years fishing for sockeye. Not to mention the nets have been reduced in size from 200 fathoms long ( 6feet per fathom) to 100 feet per fathom.
No doubt fishing has had a huge impact on stocks, especially smaller runs to begin with. But it is interesting that decades of fishing go on fine until the last 15 - 20yrs when stocks really started declining in certain runs. Again, the Adams somehow maintained strong numbers despite fishing.
Other considerations
Fishing is not the only factor to consider. Deforestation (causing silt and warmer tributaries = destroys spawning habitat), Pollution from ...everything, especially farms (juvinille salmon spend most of their time in backeddies and such where higher concentrations of pollutants exist), ocean conditions (unkown what happens out there), and fish farm (lice).
Why is it that last year a run of 10million was expected and only 1 million showed up - there was sufficient spawners and little fishing pressure on that run. Why is it that the broughton archepeligo expecting millions of pinks was obliterated then 2yrs later come back with a vengence? How is that this run on 14 million that had the only fishing pressure of any extent 4 and 8 yrs ago all of a sudden double in size to levels never before seen for 100yrs?
Commercial Fishing on the Fraser - the real deal
Obviously the numbers in the river when they get to hope will be reduced significantly enough to make it difficult for the Flossers out there to have optimal chances of hooking up. But the first nations commercial opening (yes they get a seperate commercial opening, other than food fishing, from the rest of the commercial fleet) lasted 3 days -THEN the commercial fleet went out for 8 hrs and still the boats upriver did extremely well compared to the boats at the mouth - my point is FISH GET THROUGH!
HOW you ask. TIDES!!!! When the tide is running, netting at the mouth is very ineffective - the net lays sideways and are not deep enough (60 mesh) to catch the fish as they stick close to the bottom and the sides of the river looking for easier paths. The only time the nets are effective is during slack and back up when the fish flood in and push up river. This means optimal fishing only occurs for a few hours of each tide. For example, we have fished for hours, back when the river was loaded with boats and 200 fathom nets, catching only 5 - 20 fish per set. Then all of a sudden, as the tide slows and stops, the fish appear seamingly out of nowhere everywhere in the river. TIDES ARE THE KEY.
PURSE SEINE - unfortunately, purse seine definately hits hard. It wasn't until the late 50's that the seine boat used drums and hydrolics adding to their efficiency. instead of 2 sets a day they can make up to 10. To compare a purse seine to a gillnet would be to compare a ping pong net to a tennis net. That is why you will never see them in the mouth of the Fraser - that would obliterate the run.
TOO MANY SPAWNERS - as ibily mentioned, you can only have a certain number of spawners or the spawning beds are destroyed and numbers are reduced even more than they would be if an optimal # is allowed. I'm sure there is a farming comparison in there somewhere. Robert G. - Of course the gillnetters aren't there to help the numbers
Gillnetters - are not greedy. they are just trying to make a living fishing legally when they are allowed to, by the powers that be. They agree with management and want there to be fish for everyone.
Finally - If you want to complain, be informed, be respectful, and aim it at the right targets.
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The above has to be the most educational and interesting post I have read in a long time on any fishing forum.
Thanks, Ricer.
Beer's on me when we meet. :)
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The above has to be the most educational and interesting post I have read in a long time on any fishing forum.
Thanks, Ricer.
Beer's on me when we meet. :)
DITTO All the way here. Very informative Ricer, thanks.
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Some very valid points there ricer. The one I disagree with is the thought that too many spawners will dig up redds and affect the eggs??? Is there any documented proof of this.
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forgot to mention, that of course the stocks have gone on fine for thousands of years but have they always been strong? I don't have the info or the numbers to back that up but I bet robert G doesnt either. I have heard that the runs have fluctuated as do all predator prey species, farmer fields, ect....
If fish are going to die and eggs wasted, why not harvest if there is more than enough to perpetuate the species. Obviously there were enough spawners 4, 8, 16, 24 ect... years ago and look at all the milllions of people around the world fed and happy!!! I think this was a part of the BIG GUY's plans when he told us to manage and oversee his creation. Hopefully we have learned from the mistakes in the east and judging by the returns this year we are on the right track.
What concerns me know a little is all the dead fish i have seen floating around steveston - anyone hear about what this is about?
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Interesting article
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/protecting-weak-stocks-may-be-key-to-salmon-recovery/article1589500/
check out this article mentioning management of too many spawners and protecting weaker runs. The funny thing is they had a terrible year this year (or last year?). Anyways just another example of proof that harvesting properly can work and the fact that there are things out of our control that affect returns.
I forgot to mention drift netting by other countries as well.
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Ricer.
What do you say to the fact that your tax dollars have been supporting a dead industry for the 3 previous years.....Government subsidy for an industry that should no longer exist.
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Agree they should do more to protect the poor runs.
But realistically how long can you commercially freeze sockeye for? Long enough to stockpile for the bad years?
At the end of the day food, economics and politics are what drives the decisions, not science!
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ricer, I enjoyed your well typed out explanation and partial defense of the commercial fishery.
There are a few holes in your argument you may wish to rethink though....
Overspawning - I'm well aware of certain situations where ESSR is a valid concern. Realistically one must take into account several issues here. The length of suitable spawning gravel, nutrient sources, predation etc. You mention that populations of several species fluctuate which is absolutely the case with everything. Nature does have a wonderful way of working things out though and unless a severe disease outbreak occurs, overspawning is extremely localized and rarely demonstrates challenges to the overall health of the returns.
The other one, as Robert_G already mentioned, is the extremely subsidized commercial fishery as it is today. You mentioned that 15 years ago the commercial fishermen fished 10 months a year. Up and down the coast salmon stocks have typically had a downward trend in regards to populations and spawning numbers. Do you think maybe there is some correlation between the long commercial openings and the downturn in many salmon populations? The case of Skeena coho populations and the SE Alaskan commercial fishery is an excellent example. As you stated, the commercial fishermen have had 4 days of fishing in the last 4 years at the mouth of the Fraser. I`m sorry, but from a layman`s view, that simply does not add up to a financially viable income choice.
I`m well aware that many commercial fishermen both past and present have had to find another source of income to provide for themselves and their families. I guess what I`m trying to say is, is it worth it for commercial fishermen to pay for the upkeep of their boats and equipment when the overall commercial fishing openings are becoming rarer and rarer?
I`m not trying to take a shot at your argument, you made alot of great points.
Here`s to a healthy conversation. :)
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The problem is that guys like ricer are blinded by sentimentalism.
His family has several generations of commercial fishing, so he is going to have a soft spot for it.
Unfortunately, he allows emotions and sentimentalism to blind himself to the fact that commercial fishing is a dead industry that is subsidized by tax payers and is ruining what is left of our DECLINING salmon stocks...not to mention the devastating bycatch that DFO is not paying attention to right now.
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--I don't understand why so many want to take away from the legal catch of others..
--If the fish numbers are correct I can forgo a few days of slower recreational fishing, although some fish do still get through. Maybe during these times it will be a bit less crowded and at little more enjoyable fishing.
--I still think we should be looking for some scientists that come from a different university than our current crop so we get a more diverse/accurate approach to management and maybe someone that can come up with decent run predictions.
--For years commercial fishers have provided an excellent source for data on fish runs.. I think they even pay some taxes, license fees and provide jobs for those servicing the fleet.
--We should be celebrating a sustainable commercial fishery and wait our turn on the recreational fishery.
--I cannot understand why people are so down on sustainable commercial fishing and forestry that this provice was founded on and has been recently ignored to the point of ruin.
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--I cannot understand why people are so down on sustainable commercial fishing and forestry that this provice was founded on and has been recently ignored to the point of ruin.
I guess if we were a little more focused on sustainablility, there might be a little more support. The "good old days", were not really so good for the enviroment, especially in forestry, maybe what they meant to say was, if you werent so worried and would stop watching us and telling us about the environment and sustainability, we could really make some money here. I have been involved with forestry, and know first hand the devestating consequences of poor logging practices.
The other point I want to make is...if you could only work 3 hrs out of 4 yrs...is that really the industry you want to work in? Truely, I dont care how many generations you came from that were involved in it, maybe if our grandfathers had paid a little more respect to this fishery, we wouldnt be in the trouble we are in now, just like forestry.Pillaging a resource until there is nothing left of it, is not sustanability in my books, I could be wrong, but I bet 100 million cod would argue other wise.
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I guess if we were a little more focused on sustainablility, there might be a little more support. The "good old days", were not really so good for the enviroment, especially in forestry, maybe what they meant to say was, if you werent so worried and would stop watching us and telling us about the environment and sustainability, we could really make some money here. I have been involved with forestry, and know first hand the devestating consequences of poor logging practices.
The other point I want to make is...if you could only work 3 hrs out of 4 yrs...is that really the industry you want to work in? Truely, I dont care how many generations you came from that were involved in it, maybe if our grandfathers had paid a little more respect to this fishery, we wouldnt be in the trouble we are in now, just like forestry.Pillaging a resource until there is nothing left of it, is not sustanability in my books, I could be wrong, but I bet 100 million cod would argue other wise.
i would have to agree...as much as i feel for the commercial fishers, they are at the forefront of the industry's decline...poor harvesting practices and mismanagement along with the 'bottomless pit' mentality that killed the east coast cod fishery.
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What I can not comprehend is: why we (recreational fishermen) could not take our 4 fish instead of current 2 when the sockeye return is so great (the best in 100 years) and everybody else taken them by millions?! We also pay our taxes, gas, licences, stamps, etc, etc.
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What I can not comprehend is: why we (recreational fishermen) could not take our 4 fish instead of current 2 when the sockeye return is so great (the best in 100 years) and everybody else taken them by millions?! We also pay our taxes, gas, licences, stamps, etc, etc.
Probably so that you'll give up up your spot on the river bank so some other fisher can have a chance at the resource.
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What I can not comprehend is: why we (recreational fishermen) could not take our 4 fish instead of current 2 when the sockeye return is so great (the best in 100 years) and everybody else taken them by millions?!
Because you don't bring enough money to the table. Buy a boat and go out on the ocean and you can have four. The logic of that escapes me also.
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What I can not comprehend is: why we (recreational fishermen) could not take our 4 fish instead of current 2 when the sockeye return is so great (the best in 100 years) and everybody else taken them by millions?! We also pay our taxes, gas, licences, stamps, etc, etc.
I'm sure everyone in the upper river will be able to get as much sockeye as they need... no reason to up the daily quota. A person can only eat so many fish and keeping them in the freezer for longer than 6 months will seriously degrade the taste. Be appreciative of what you have... ;)
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i would have to agree...as much as i feel for the commercial fishers, they are at the forefront of the industry's decline...poor harvesting practices and mismanagement along with the 'bottomless pit' mentality that killed the east coast cod fishery.
I don't blame the commercial fishermen on either coast for the decline in salmon or cod stocks. They only go out and catch, under heavy regulations, what they are told they can catch. If the catch number is too high for too long, the stock suffers but it wasn't the fishermens fault. They are just doing their job.
The daily management of the Fraser River salmon fisheries south of Texada is the responsibility of the Fraser Panel of the Pacific Salmon Commission, not DFO, and it has been since the 1980's and the Salmon Treaty. DFO chairs the Canadian side of the panel but the USA has 40% of the seats and there are reps for gillnetters, seiners, First Nations and recreational fishermen that make decisions about harvesting and openings. It's all on the PSC website. DFO gives them best guesses as to how many spawners they need to let through and what the forecast numbers coming back are expected to be. But if you read the start of season forecasts, it's obvious that they can no longer predict how many fish will be coming back until they open the test fisheries. Something wild and fluctuating is going in the ocean and the trick will be to manage conservatively to protect the weak years. But the Fraser Panels mandate is to maximize productivity and sustainable harvest, which can often mean pushing the limits of fishing.
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just got home from work, and as I was driving over the Alex Fraser, I saw the most boats I've ever seen, for as far as I could see on either side of the bridge...like at least 3 or 4 dozen boats or more....might be slow fishing in the valley this weekend!
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As of August 24th,
Catch Accounted to date - 4,086,580
Potential Spawning Escapement - 5,891,820
Looks like 41% of the run to date has been taken out before even getting out of tidal water.
Combine that with the FN fisheries and the sportsfisheries above Mission and it's feasible to be looking at 45% of the run not even getting a chance to spawn.
Maybe throw a few more obstacles in the way like high water temperatures, low water flows and disease outbreak.
Ultimately the true story will be 4 years from now when this generations offspring flood the rivers again.
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I'm sure everyone in the upper river will be able to get as much sockeye as they need... no reason to up the daily quota. A person can only eat so many fish and keeping them in the freezer for longer than 6 months will seriously degrade the taste. Be appreciative of what you have... ;)
I asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. Today I think that the 2 fish a day limit is fine. By now most people probably have enough fish in the freezer or cans. What is the point in catching more fish you won't eat. I hate throwing meat or fish out because it was in the freezer too long. Some people will go out and catch their limit if it was 2, 4, or 10 just because they can.
We have enough fish for ourselves and my parents. We may go out again if my sister or a cousin wants to go out, but we don't need to bring any more home for us.
It has been a good sockeye season for us and we appreciate all the fish we were able to bring home.
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you need to get a vacuum sealer, works awesome, meat and fish last way way longer in the fridge and freezer
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As of August 24th,
Catch Accounted to date - 4,086,580
Potential Spawning Escapement - 5,891,820
Looks like 41% of the run to date has been taken out before even getting out of tidal water.
Combine that with the FN fisheries and the sportsfisheries above Mission and it's feasible to be looking at 45% of the run not even getting a chance to spawn.
Maybe throw a few more obstacles in the way like high water temperatures, low water flows and disease outbreak.
Ultimately the true story will be 4 years from now when this generations offspring HOPEFULLY flood the rivers again.
There - fixed that for ya :D
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http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=127224&ID=all
This is freakin unprecedented. I don't remember them ever getting a 32 hour opening.
For those who don't know where this is...this is the area of the Fraser mouth and sometimes as far upstream as the Mission Bridge.
For crying out loud, they just got an 8 hour opening yesterday...but after this opening, the Fraser will be devoid of any salmon....period...until at least Sunday...and that's if they don't get another opening right away. The entire river is about to be raped like never before.
They did this back in 1994, and DFO admitted that they were one commercial opening away from obliterating the run. 16 years pass by and they've forgotten all about it....Complete morons.
Who made the recreational fishermen the only ones that should be able to fish? So the rivers will be slow for a couple of days. You have already had a couple of weeks to be able to fish. If you are so worried about the salmon stocks maybe you should let them all swim by as well. :o
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Is the fishing best at high slack or low slack?
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looks like monday for another opening on the fraser.
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Robert, Robert, Robert
Again, you need to understand all the facts. I think sentimentality is more on your side than mine. As i mentioned, the commercial fishing fleet as a whole has been greatly reduced. All of my Dad's generation have sold their boats and/or licences to government buy back. Others (younger folk) have turned their fishing vessels into fishing guides and tour guides. My dad sold his licence years ago and now leases a licence if available. Most of the remaining fishermen have dual licences so they can fish other areas such as barkley, rupert, rivers ect... Still others have turned to shrimping, crabing and dragging for bottom fish. Very few boats with fishing licences sit idle with fishermen chomping at the bit to fish the Fraser. Fishing the Fraser is simply a bonus for these guys and recreational fishermen alike.
We all totally agree that the Fraser runs were mismanaged and overfished when runs needed to be protected. My point was that commercial fishing properly managed does not alone destroy salmon stocks as so many of the recreational fisherman believe. There are countless other factors (reread original post with this in mind).
As to overspawning, true we do not know that too many fish can devestate a run or even cause a smaller run but we do know that there is an optimal amount based on the many factors that were mentioned by another, to maintain a solid return of salmon. If people want every salmon possible to return then we must stop all fishing, rec, native, commercial, international (I forgot to mention that while fishing San juan, the canadians were allowed partial openings a few days a week while our southern brothers fished 24/7 with monofilament deep and long gillnets - they are catching our fish).
I only hope to help give information to the discussion and bring some insight that many have not heard or realized. I think some need to ask themselves why they react so strongly to this information instead of adding it to their understanding of this very complex issue. There are no simple answers and it is not an exact science. I love to fish - recreationally - I am an avid fly fisherman and i catch and release 99% of the fish i catch - mainly trout. I refuse to sit in lineups and "catch" sockeye but i love to fly fish for pinks. I have nothing against flossers and have done it myself - once. I love fish and my sentiment is to the health of the Fraser river....but i can smell ignorance a mile away!
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25 million returning salmon - this is declining?
and... do you really think that the Fraser is the only source of fish in our province?
Anyways, I am done, this tires me out and sometimes i think guys like Robert never want to listen or consider reason and they are sitting there laughing away as the hook me into another discussion - best catch of the day right ;)
But it was fun anyways.
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Ricer, can you drop me an email, I'd like to chat offline.
thanks
Geoff
PS - I have fished 5 or 6 days now...my freezer is pretty full of vacume packed socks and the neighbors have all had some to so anyone who thinks 4 a day is needed...I'd have to say thats over the top.
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I guess if we were a little more focused on sustainablility, there might be a little more support. The "good old days", were not really so good for the enviroment, especially in forestry, maybe what they meant to say was, if you werent so worried and would stop watching us and telling us about the environment and sustainability, we could really make some money here. I have been involved with forestry, and know first hand the devestating consequences of poor logging practices.
The other point I want to make is...if you could only work 3 hrs out of 4 yrs...is that really the industry you want to work in? Truely, I dont care how many generations you came from that were involved in it, maybe if our grandfathers had paid a little more respect to this fishery, we wouldnt be in the trouble we are in now, just like forestry.Pillaging a resource until there is nothing left of it, is not sustanability in my books, I could be wrong, but I bet 100 million cod would argue other wise.
--I'm sure the commercials don't sit around doing nothing waiting for this fishery it is just one portion of their year and as others have pointed out they do many other jobs with their boats to earn a living.
---sorry I didn't explain myself better, I don't think there where any good old days... I think there was a glimmer of hope in the mid to late 70's where forest management was attempted but would agree that industry won the battle in getting government to sell us out on sustainable forest management. I don't have any love for the big name environmental groups, either that now seem to have their focus on raising funds and supporting popular causes rather than doing meaningful work.
--My point mainly is that forestry and fisheries ... should and could be sustainable if managed with more thought....and that we could and should come to a concensus agreement on allocation for all us to get our piece of the pie and not begrudge other legitimate users from their fair share when enough fish are available to sustain the population, also at an agreed upon level.
--I am astonished that after so many years of so called scientific study that we cannot better predict the run sizes thus at least give us a chance at setting some management goals.. Either they have the ability and don't want to tell us the sad state of affairs or we need better funded and prepared practitioners.
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I was doing some figuring today and really, in terms of this country, commercial fishing is not old and recreational fishing for sockeye is practically new. My Great grandfather started fishing in 1907, by 1914 there was a significant Fraser fleet but they fished with sails and hand pulled in short nets and could only fish slack water tides (approx 4-8 hours of any given 24 hour period). By the 1950's the drum and hydrolics was in full force and the fleet grew. By the 70's the fleet in BC was huge and boats could gillnet and troll anywhere they were able to get to when opened.
In other words recorded fishing is only about 100 years old and DFO/scientific study/management is even younger than that. That means any given 4 year cycle has only run 20 -25 times over this period. It really is amazing that this years return is the largest on record since 1914 and it is fair to say that prior that the runs must have naturally been on average lower than that - We must give the managers some credit and some leway as they are always learning as well.
RECREATIONAL fishing for sockeye is only 10-15 yrs old on the Fraser. I would like to hear from those who have fished longer (especially flossers). That means I would guess that most people who recreationally fish for sockeye have only done so over the last 8yrs or so and this really is only 2 cycles!! That makes it difficult for people to comment with validity. I imagine most of those people wouldn't have given a thought to this issue until they started fishing for themselves. What is reported in the media (as is the case for most things) is not always fact based and unbiased.
I think we can all say that there is lots to be learned and there are lots to be positive about.
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Ricer...you always fail to respond to the bycatch issues.
Perhaps you could explain why there are no Skeena Steelhead in July (commercials are fishing during this time) anymore.
Perhaps you could explain why the last 3 years ( no commercial opening) have seen really good early coho on the Vedder.
This year the early Vedder fall Coho and Springs will probably be poor.
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32 hr opening !!!!!!!!!
My guess is these commercial guys & possible gals will be preparing their boats & nets alot of hrs before that...then as it's 32 hrs they will be fishing most of that time..& unloading etc... Like that means possibly alot of these folks will be up for 40 hrs or more with NO SLEEP !!!
Kinda crazy for one's health esp if they have a little bit of a weak heart...
Guess they will be drinking alot of caff drinks coffee cokes etc...
Then there is the concern of safety on the water...& operating a boat etc... currents tides winds rock jetties docking in crowded ports...
Side note ...now that the Esso Marine Station is closed down in Steveston....it must be great to be the owner of the Chevon in Steveston Harbour !!!
But seriously they should space out the openning abit...say every 3-4 days & 6 hr openings say at the proper tides as Ricer mentioned when the fish suddenly appear in numbers to be caught in the drift nets. 32 hr opening doesn't seem to make much sense to me. ??? ??? ???
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Are you fishing again Robert?
I totally agree with your comments on bycatch but that isn't exactly what we have been discussing. But since you bring it up the fisheries have "tried" to manage this as well by shutting down the commercial fishing when the bulk of these runs begin which is usually when the Chum salmon begin their migration as well. Much to the complaints of the old time fisherman as my Dad would say "I used to fish this river 4 days a week 10 months of the year". That ended in the 1980's. I have been out every opening so far with my dad (in the Fraser) and no coho have been caught and only 3 springs. This year I am not so sure they will with all the salmon coming up so late. Usually this run is almost done by now. Hopefully the coho and springs are also a little late but i have heard of the rec fishermen doing quite well. I don't fish the vedder (too crowded for me) how have the runs of coho/steelhead/and springs been over the years previous the last 3.
What i would worry about is if they open the straight to seine fisherman.
It was amazing out on the mouth yesterday. We were fishing by the lighthouse with fish jumping everywhere and we were only getting 10 a set. We headed up river (a mile below garry point) when the tide began to slow and all finally had our biggest set of the day 250. After that we caught another 100 (for 4 sets) and went in for the night. When the tide is running our nets are virtually sideways only going down about 5 feet. The seines will have no problem coraling all those fish. They will catch 20-50 thousand to our 500! That is why they haven't fished in the straight for decades!
I can't comment on the Skeena because i don't know much about that system other than it was strong but had a weak run last year. I also know from watching my fishing channel that if you want to catch coho, and steelhead that is the place to go!
If you want to comment on the Thompson - commercial has been closed in the mouth when they run for over 30 yrs. We have NEVER nor has any other fisherman in the Fraser that i know of, caught a steelhead. They seem to run a different route than we fish. However, i can't say the same for commercial in san juan or johnstone straights - i have no idea about those catches since we fished that in the 80's and early 90's and we never caught one that i can recall. Again, they run the same time as the coho so that has been shut down for decades aside from a few short chum and pink openings
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arimaboater
we came in and slept at 11:00 went out again at 6:00 for 35 fish and came in again to sleep and will go out again at 12:00.
These guys used to do this all the time and most know the river like the back of their hand. it is the sporties running around after dark that have us a little worried. I say a 12 ft with no lights running in from the mouth at dark! That to me is crazy!
However, we have all been saying that we liked the short openings on optimal tides as well.
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Ricer, if we want to buy sockeye caught in this opening directly from your family instead of from the Steveston dock (crowd, hard to know which openings the fish were caught from), is it possible? ;D
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ROD
;D sorry but we are leasing the boat and we deliver fish to CANFISCO other than a few for family and friends.
By the way I met you at Garry a few days ago when i was with my kids watching you fly fish for PM's. I see you caught one!
Robert,
you made an interesting point about good coho returns. Interesting that the same sockeye run that year was abismal while the coho was strong - what is up with that? Both were fished four years prior and the sockeye had great spawning numbers. The mystery continue.
Don't misunderstand me still... I am all for management and conservation as well. I am also all about education :)
Keep it up because we can all learn a lot and raise awareness
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--I'm sure the commercials don't sit around doing nothing waiting for this fishery it is just one portion of their year and as others have pointed out they do many other jobs with their boats to earn a living.
---sorry I didn't explain myself better, I don't think there where any good old days... I think there was a glimmer of hope in the mid to late 70's where forest management was attempted but would agree that industry won the battle in getting government to sell us out on sustainable forest management. I don't have any love for the big name environmental groups, either that now seem to have their focus on raising funds and supporting popular causes rather than doing meaningful work.
--My point mainly is that forestry and fisheries ... should and could be sustainable if managed with more thought....and that we could and should come to a concensus agreement on allocation for all us to get our piece of the pie and not begrudge other legitimate users from their fair share when enough fish are available to sustain the population, also at an agreed upon level.
--I am astonished that after so many years of so called scientific study that we cannot better predict the run sizes thus at least give us a chance at setting some management goals.. Either they have the ability and don't want to tell us the sad state of affairs or we need better funded and prepared practitioners.
I agree, the choice, or rather the pressure on govt to allow the practice of exporting non-value added products does nothing for our economy, but puts money into the pockets of big business, as far as I am concerned, nothing should be leaving this province, with out additional value being added. The perfect example would be the practice of exporting raw logs. Why does this happen? Pressure from big business, who more than likely are NOT Canadian owned.
Sustainability is not always about reaping the highest profits possible, but that ulitimately IS the goal of business. Ricer siad it in an earlier post, most of the commercial fleet boats were NOT huge. "My Great grandfather started fishing in 1907, by 1914 there was a significant Fraser fleet but they fished with sails and hand pulled in short nets and could only fish slack water tides (approx 4-8 hours of any given 24 hour period). By the 1950's the drum and hydrolics was in full force and the fleet grew. By the 70's the fleet in BC was huge and boats could gillnet and troll anywhere they were able to get to when opened." When we lookback at how well a resource has performed, we also have to look at the methods of production or harvest. It is possible to be sustainable, but not with the huge seiners, and gill netters.
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ROD
;D sorry but we are leasing the boat and we deliver fish to CANFISCO other than a few for family and friends.
By the way I met you at Garry a few days ago when i was with my kids watching you fly fish for PM's. I see you caught one!
Robert,
you made an interesting point about good coho returns. Interesting that the same sockeye run that year was abismal while the coho was strong - what is up with that? Both were fished four years prior and the sockeye had great spawning numbers. The mystery continue.
Don't misunderstand me still... I am all for management and conservation as well. I am also all about education :)
Keep it up because we can all learn a lot and raise awareness
I think the answer is pretty simple. The coho were strong because there were less commercial boats fishing for salmon during the same year they were both returning.
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ROD
;D sorry but we are leasing the boat and we deliver fish to CANFISCO other than a few for family and friends.
By the way I met you at Garry a few days ago when i was with my kids watching you fly fish for PM's. I see you caught one!
Ah too bad. ;D I'll head down to the dock later this evening or early tomorrow morning then. We're looking into buying a couple dozen fish at once and not really look forward to hauling them all up from the floating dock. ;D
Did we chat at Garry Point? I'm trying to remember when it was. Edit: Oh wait, I remember now. Were we talking about the Thompson rainbows?
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Ah too bad. ;D I'll head down to the dock later this evening or early tomorrow morning then. We're looking into buying a couple dozen fish at once and not really look forward to hauling them all up from the floating dock. ;D
Did we chat at Garry Point? I'm trying to remember when it was. Edit: Oh wait, I remember now. Were we talking about the Thompson rainbows?
You might be able to get them at $6.50/kg. http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/08/25/bc-sockeye-prices-falling.html
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Rodney,
that's right we talked briefly about the thompson. sorry rod i would love to sell them but it is up to my father and he is still old school and sells to the company. Most have their own buyers lined up or sell to cash buyers. you could show up at the launch at the end of 2 road about an hour after closing and buy some there from fishermen who are hauling them around. I heard anywhere from 10 to 15 dollars a fish. average weight is 5 - 7 lb fish. Adams fish is starting to show.
Well we just got back from fishing and delivering and the fishing was very good... iam ... sorry to say? Interesting note, we actually caught one pink salmon! Strange.
We caught most our fish right along deas island. at 1:30 the tide was ripping but as soon as we drifted over the tunnel and to the gap we caught some fish (85 on a 15 min set). Next set (we start at the top of deas island) the tide started to slow and we caught 110. third set the tide stopped and we caught 500! most my dad has ever caught on a 100 fathom net. it was incredible. before and after this tide a set might get you 10 to 20. i don't know where they appear from and this is after 28 hours of fishing the fish still appear up river.
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Rodney,
that's right we talked briefly about the thompson. sorry rod i would love to sell them but it is up to my father and he is still old school and sells to the company. Most have their own buyers lined up or sell to cash buyers. you could show up at the launch at the end of 2 road about an hour after closing and buy some there from fishermen who are hauling them around. I heard anywhere from 10 to 15 dollars a fish. average weight is 5 - 7 lb fish. Adams fish is starting to show.
Well we just got back from fishing and delivering and the fishing was very good... iam ... sorry to say? Interesting note, we actually caught one pink salmon! Strange.
We caught most our fish right along deas island. at 1:30 the tide was ripping but as soon as we drifted over the tunnel and to the gap we caught some fish (85 on a 15 min set). Next set (we start at the top of deas island) the tide started to slow and we caught 110. third set the tide stopped and we caught 500! most my dad has ever caught on a 100 fathom net. it was incredible. before and after this tide a set might get you 10 to 20. i don't know where they appear from and this is after 28 hours of fishing the fish still appear up river.
Thanks. :) We went down to the pier this morning and other people had the same idea, so there were line-ups to get your fish. ;D Fish were selling for $20 each if you buy one, or a bit cheaper (down to $15) if you buy several. Here's our buy.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4933202680_f584bdcd82_b.jpg)
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wow...they must be so busy, they dont even have time to clean them!
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Heyy..... I thought the limit was 2 per day Rodney!! ;D
Nice take for .. how long did it take you to drive down, hand select the ones you want and drive back home????
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Pretty much all of the fish available were undressed, as they just came in from last night and probably still backed up from earlier catches. Only three of those fish were mine actually, the rest were for a couple other people. I even cleaned all of the fish for them. :P Now I have a nice tub of roe sitting in the fridge. ;D
Heyy..... I thought the limit was 2 per day Rodney!! ;D
Nice take for .. how long did it take you to drive down, hand select the ones you want and drive back home????
It took a bit longer than we thought because there were so many people. :o I left my house at 9:30am, we were back just before 10:30am. I did get the opportunity to hop on the boat and watched which fish were being hauled into my cooler. ;D It's just like going to the Vedder, except I didn't have to get up as early. ;D
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Category(s):
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0735-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Area E - Area 29- Fraser River Sockeye Openings
Fraser River Sockeye:
Gillnets open for 24 hours commencing at 10:00 hours Monday, August 30 to 10:00
hours Tuesday, August 31 in Subareas 29-1 to 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, and 29-9 to 29-
17.
V.O. # 2010-STN-GN-005
Gillnets open for 12 hours commencing at 07:00 hours Wednesday, September 1 to
19:00 hours Wednesday, September 1 in Subareas 29-1 to 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, and 29-
9 to 29-17.
V.O. # 2010-STN-GN-006
A maximum net length of 100 fathoms is in place for these opening. This means
that a maximum aggregate net length of 100 fathoms (approximately 187.5 metres)
is on the drum of the vessel.
The target species for this fishery is sockeye salmon although retention of
chinook, chum and pink salmon is permitted. Fisher harvesters are reminded
mandatory non-retention and non-possession of all coho, steelhead, and sturgeon
are in effect.
New for 2010 is the requirement for start and end fishing reports. Vessel
masters must, prior to leaving for the fishing grounds, phone AMR at 1-888-387-
0007 and provide a start fishing report. Refer to 2010 Area E Conditions of
Licence for more information including provisions for vessel masters using
electronic harvest logs.
Notes:
1. Maximum mesh size is 140 mm (approximately 5.5 inches). Maximum depth 60
meshes. Maximum hang ratio 3:1. Maximum corkline to web distance 45 cm.
2. Fishers are reminded that a mandatory harvest log (paper harvest log or
electronic paper log) and catch reporting program is in place for the 2010
season. At the end of each fishing day prior to 08:00 hrs of the next day, the
vessel master must, as a condition of licence, report their catch by and record
their catch information in their Salmon Log Book. Note that a report is
required for all fishing activity even if no fish are caught. Please refer to
appropriate sections of the 2010 Area E Conditions of Licence and Logbook
instructions for the reporting format and requirements.
3. All vessels must have operating revival tanks that meet the specifications
as outlined in the 2010 Area E conditions of licence.
4. Fishers are requested to avoid fishing among birds and not to run the line
if birds are near the net. Fishers are requested to retain all dead birds
which are entangled and to release live and unharmed birds by placing them in
the water. Please check all birds for metal bird bands (rings) on the leg. If
a bird is banded please contact Laurie Wilson with the band number and capture
date and location at 1-866-431-2473 (BIRD) or by the email below. Handle birds
with gloves, double bag dead birds and label each bird with date, time, and
location and store them on ice. Please call your local charter patrol to
organize pick-up or drop them off at a local DFO office. Alternatively, please
send photographs of birds with a reference object such as a coin, and the date,
time and location to laurie.wilson@ec.gc.ca. Your names and vessel names do
not need to be identified or included.
5. Fisheries and Oceans Canada is interested in reports of sea turtles in BC
waters. By documenting sightings we are able to learn more about how, when,
and where these turtles are using our waters. If you see or entangle a sea
turtle, please call this toll-free phone number: 1-866-I SAW ONE (1-866-472-
9663). Please include information such as the type of sea turtle seen (i.e.
leatherback), the location, and time of sighting and if entanglement has
occurred.
An additional fishery proposed for Thursday, September 2 will be confirmed on
Tuesday, August 31 in the PM following the next scheduled meeting of the Fraser
River Panel.
Recorded updates for Area E fleet are available at (604) 666-2828.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (604)666-2370
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0735
Sent August 27, 2010 at 13:51
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Think I'll head down to Steveston tomorrow and pick up a bunch.
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There is no such thing as too many returning.
You are totally clueless.
When too many fish spawn in a given area, the 2nd (& 3rd & 4th) set of spawning fish clears the nest of the 1st set of eggs.
This completely wastes the first spawning generation efforts.
These eggs then float around in the spawning areas and can rot and cause disease in the final set of eggs.
Why do you think that salmon "bite" at roe in the river?
They stop eating when they enter the river but they are attempting to get rid of excess eggs floating in their spawning areas.
The reason that we had huge numbers of fish 50 years ago was there was probably 3 to 4 times the spawning area there is now.
We have less due to dams, logging damage to streams, gravel extraction, etc.
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you can get fraser sockeye heads off cleaned 15-25 dollars 4.50 lb. at the real canadian super store. decent value.
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at lunch time today they were 4 for $50
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Intereting thread here.
The numbers in 1913 were around 30 million.
1914 - Hell's Gate slide.
1941 - Fish ladders and new spawning beds constructed to help save the salmon runs from collapsing.
Now, up to the the Hell's gate slide, commercial fishing was easily supported by this river. They were obviously fishing before 1913, otherwise how would they know that 30million was the largest ever, up to that point. So commercial fishing ins't the only, OR the main reason for the low numbers in the past.
People forget that for years, DFO and the Fish processors have been seeding the lakes with macrozooplankton to feed the lake fry, for good returns. So really, these numbers are kinda artificial. But definitely large enough to support a commercial opening or 5.
If you haven't been to the Adams river to witness the Sockeye return. I encourage you all to go see. You'll realize why 25 million fish returning to the beds would be a disaster. They weren't meant to hold this many. And with the lack of other spanwning areas in different systems, that is wy the lake seeding has gone on.
Why the big numbers? Who Knows:
Is it the lack of commercial and recreational openings over tha last few years?
The Aboriginal fishery has had heavy pressure on the river for the last for or MORE years, and that doesn't seem to have an affect.
What has happened in the ocean for these fish?
They only have 100 years of kowledge but, you have to let DFO manage the fishery. They know more than you Robert.
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I think someone posted that in 1913 they estimated 38 million sockeye and they harvested 31 million that year.... Apparently the only way they had to monitor the numbers at that time was to count the number of fish that were processed by the canneries.
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What I know is that the Sockeye got along just fine before DFO came along...even on big run years.
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What I know is that the Sockeye got along just fine before DFO came along...even on big run years.
Wow.............soooo blind.
Are you just pissed that it may take you an extra hour to floss a sockeye so you can get your limit?
Go get informed, ie: read something, then come back and ADD some good info to the forum. Nothing you have said is educational or informational.
Sounds like you're just spewing info you've heard through other people down the line........... Same thing you do on the Fish BC forum.
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What is with the notion that there can be too many fish on the spawning grounds?
This makes little to no sense to me. If there are fish that die before spawning because there are simply too many trying to get to the spawning area, then that is simply selecting for the stronger, fitter individuals. People think it's a "disaster" if there are too many fish on the spawning beds? I suppose this disaster never occurred before human intervention, right? The exact appropriate quantity of fish arrived each and every year and they didn't fight one another, they patiently waited in line for their spot on the spawning grounds, spawned and died in peace...
The cold hard reality of the natural world is that it is a race. This is the mechanism by which natural selection operates. Humans are ridiculous, thinking we are supposed to be correcting something, or that there is something wrong with the natural processes that occur. Why do you think they have developed insane kyped mouths, big humps, and are aggressive as hell? Would you rather we have weaker genetics in the stock and have the fish be completely maladaptive? I understand the reduction in spawning area that has occurred in the past, however that is something humans have done. You don't have to go and cull 5 million fish to avoid a traffic jam on the spawning beds.. this would void natural selection and the genetic strength of the Sockeye population.
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What is with the notion that there can be too many fish on the spawning grounds?
This makes little to no sense to me. If there are fish that die before spawning because there are simply too many trying to get to the spawning area, then that is simply selecting for the stronger, fitter individuals. People think it's a "disaster" if there are too many fish on the spawning beds? I suppose this disaster never occurred before human intervention, right? The exact appropriate quantity of fish arrived each and every year and they didn't fight one another, they patiently waited in line for their spot on the spawning grounds, spawned and died in peace...
The cold hard reality of the natural world is that it is a race. This is the mechanism by which natural selection operates. Humans are ridiculous, thinking we are supposed to be correcting something, or that there is something wrong with the natural processes that occur. Why do you think they have developed insane kyped mouths, big humps, and are aggressive as hell? Would you rather we have weaker genetics in the stock and have the fish be completely maladaptive? I understand the reduction in spawning area that has occurred in the past, however that is something humans have done. You don't have to go and cull 5 million fish to avoid a traffic jam on the spawning beds.. this would void natural selection and the genetic strength of the Sockeye population.
Excellent post and also I might add that all the dead sockeye in their natal streams even though they may not have spawned successfully provide excellent nutrients as the offspring will feed on their relative's dcaying flesh when they emerge from their redds in the Spring.
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Seems to me fish are doing ok right now - this run anywas - up to 30 million! Again, over the last 8 years this cycle has been the only run that had multiple openings. I'm not saying fishing helps runs but this article seems to suggest it does.
interesting article on Friday's Richmond News talking about :
Want more fish? Kill more fish
Not enough salmon being harvested: UBC professor
BY NELSON BENNETT, RICHMOND NEWSAUGUST 27, 2010
If the Department of Fisheries and Oceans wants to increase wild salmon stocks, it should let fishermen harvest more fish, says a UBC fisheries expert.
Dr. Carl Walters, who recently sat on the science panel advising the Cohen Commission, says DFO's current escapement targets are too low.
"The real big story here isn't so much that it's such a big run, it's that it's not being harvested at the rates it could be," says Walters.
It's an argument Conservative MP John Cummins has made over the years: Allowing too many fish to return to spawn is actually bad management. However, it's an argument that is hard to sell to the public or even DFO because it seems to defy common sense.
But Walters, whose expertise is in fish population dynamics, said there is compelling evidence that allowing too many fish to spawn has a deleterious rebound effect.
"If you put too many fish on the spawning grounds, it will come back to haunt you," said Walters, a professor at UBC's Department of Zoology.
The haunting comes in what Walters calls "delayed density dependence," and he said there is now 15 years of evidence to support that the 30 per cent exploitation rates embraced by DFO is a failed experiment.
"It doesn't seem like anyone in government realizes it was an experiment in the first place," Walters said.
DFO used to allow fishermen to harvest up to 80 to 90 per cent of returning salmon. But in 1995, fisheries managers decided to lower the exploitation rate to 30 per cent.
The assumption was that allowing more salmon to return to spawn would result in more fish hatching, returning to the ocean and coming back in four year's time.
"The evidence is now very clear that that didn't happen," Walters said.
Allowing too many salmon to return to spawn results in a boom in predators and parasites, Walters said.
Fish may not be the only species hurt by DFO's current escapement policies -- so are commercial fishermen. Walters said the commercial fishing sector has lost $300 million needlessly since 1995. While he agrees the commercial fishery needs to be shut down when stocks are drastically low -- as they were in 2009 -- he thinks DFO made a mistake in keeping the commercial fishery largely closed in 2007 and 2008.
© Copyright (c) Richmond News
How does Robert know that fish got along just fine before DFO came along?
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John Cummins can blow it out his @$$.
Easy to criticize DFO's management practice when your pocketbook depends on it.....
Humans are not god's gift to the world, we're an overpopulated species that has evolved like everything else. We were not designed to manage the world, that's why we have natural flaws like greed. There is nothing about harvesting more salmon to enhance future runs that makes any sense. I bet if I was slipped a few thousands bucks for me studies from the Fisheries Workers Union I could come up with some bull#^$@ that would sound like Dr. Walters report.
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Wow.............soooo blind.
Are you just pissed that it may take you an extra hour to floss a sockeye so you can get your limit?
Go get informed, ie: read something, then come back and ADD some good info to the forum. Nothing you have said is educational or informational.
Sounds like you're just spewing info you've heard through other people down the line........... Same thing you do on the Fish BC forum.
Sounds to me like you're spewing out a bunch of anger. Interestingly enough coming from a brand new member with no information in his profile.
Perhaps you should read what Jon5hill just said.
I'll say it again....The sockeye did just fine before DFO and commercial fisheries ever existed.
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Yup, a brand new member here. I was reminded about Rodney's page the other day, so I decided to join the fray.
Well done Rod. Excellent site.
A new member here, but a founding member on Fish BC.
There's no anger in my statements, just perplexed at your posts that don't offer anything. Bring something to the table......
Up until 1913 the salmon runs supported the commercial fishery just fine. After Hell's Gate, it took 28 years of fishing, logging, habitat destruction, and environmental changes to realize the fish need our (Canada fisheries, and US fisheries) help to survive.
Yes Jon5hill makes some good points but the problem is "The exact appropriate quantity of fish arrived each and every year....." is just that. It isn't the exact appropriate quantity. It's an artificial quantity. Those particular spawning beds can't hold those numbers. Back in 1913 there were many more spawning beds over different areas that the fish would go to. SInce then an ever increasing loss of habitat pormpted DFO and Fishing companies to increase survival rate of fry in particular lake systems, to make up for the loss.
Without this, there would be no fishing at all. There simply would be not enough fish.
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Back in 1913 there were many more spawning beds over different areas that the fish would go to.
I think this part is overlooked a lot.
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I think Jon5hill makes a good point but not a contradictory point to what we have been saying. I don't think that we "need" to harvest to have strong stocks but i think we can and still have strong stocks. No one argues that there is a maximum capacity that a river can sustain. When this capacity is exceeded or if the not enough fish meet it than stocks may be reduced for a cycle until #'s can recoup. But this is the beauty of nature, if we can find the maximum sustainable amount that ensures continued stocks will be strong than we can have recreational and commercial openings and have enough fish to spawn - is that too much to ask ;D
The problem continues to be the complexity of it all - which has been my push all along. There are so many factors that are yet to be discovered and new factors that may be conjjoured. Last year's stocks had great returns four years prior - that is why they estimated 10million to return but they didn't. They don't know if the problem was in the hatch, the fry stage, the juvinille stage, the migration or the open ocean stage. We don't know if there were man made causes or natural causes or as is likely a combination of both.
The Pacific Salmon foundation is attempting to research all these stages to determine the 2009 collapse - BC outdoors sports fishing Mag.
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--it is easy to set and manage targets after the run has occurred... until we get reliable numbers on returning fish and where they are going how can we possibly set catch targets.
--I think the escapement targets have more to do with the lack of confidence in the return predictions than it has on what appropriate targets should be.
--Also am concerned with the number of small tributary spawn stream.. (not the main know areas) that have disappeared over the years ( urban development,lack of water etc). My money on the health of the population and ability to rebound from disaster would be on the many small tributaries where fish arrive in small numbers at different times than the main runs.
--What is going to happen if a tank truck with toxic waste plows off the bridge on the Adams or the hells gate slide type event, remember recent slide on the chilcotin that blocked the river for a few days.. these catastrophic events continue to happen.
--I am wondering if there is any significant correlation between sockeye rebound and seemingly similar rebound of Okanagan kokanee populations that have in recent years also been on the recline.. Maybe our scientists are taking to much credit for what is a naturally occurring cycle. We may not be as significant a factor as we think,, I agree we can destroy a population, not sure we are actually the ones who are the significant factor in rebuilding it.
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... the problem is "The exact appropriate quantity of fish arrived each and every year....." is just that. It isn't the exact appropriate quantity. It's an artificial quantity. Those particular spawning beds can't hold those numbers. Back in 1913 there were many more spawning beds over different areas that the fish would go to. SInce then an ever increasing loss of habitat pormpted DFO and Fishing companies to increase survival rate of fry in particular lake systems, to make up for the loss.
Without this, there would be no fishing at all. There simply would be not enough fish.
Considering most stocking programs and artificial enhancement select fish from a narrow range of the gene pool, it makes sense to let selection act on these monocultures as much as they can. The Alaskan Sockeye fishery manages for diversity. By reducing the mean variation in genetic composition among our Sockeye by artificial enhancement, we are effectively promoting boom and bust cycles. If we want a healthy, predictable, and harvestable fishery, we should be managing for diversity, rather than artificially enhancement - waiting for a boom year, and then harvesting the crap out of the run. In an eye opening paper published in Nature in March of this year, leading Salmon biologists (Schindler, Hilborn, Quinn, and others) demonstrate how stability is gained from increased biodiversity in the Alaskan Sockeye fishery. The Fraser Sockeye run has never been managed for diversity, and as such the remaining fish are likely less adapted for their particular systems than Alaskan Sockeye are for their respective systems. If we think that the spawning beds are saturated and we need to harvest more to allow 'appropriate numbers', then natural selection will not operate maximally on these huge boom cycles of fish. The operation of natural selection on any population always maximizes diversity, and if we want to take a page from a properly managed fishery that is sustainable and predictable, we should adapt management practices that maximize natural selection and thus manage for enhanced diversity within and between Sockeye runs on the Fraser.
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Another great theory and plan that came to a screeching halt this salmon year in Alaska when they had a bust of a year. There still is no full proof plan and i don't think there ever will be. But Alaska has been the most consistent over the last while so they must be doing something right.
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Looks like another opening for the commercial guys today...lots of boats out there.
Anyone know how long this opening is for?
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24 hours, started at 10am.
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Just stopped by Garry Point and saw commercials netting as expected, but there were so many sockeye jumping! Every second there would be a few jumping within my view.
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24 hours, started at 10am.
do we know yet if there will be any more openings (commercial) this week?
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do we know yet if there will be any more openings (commercial) this week?
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24773.msg233446#msg233446
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There are so many sockeye jumping and pushing up the river it is unbeleivable, we would just stand there in awe and all i hear is that more is on the way. Off to catch low water slack!
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Monday 10AM for 24 hours, and Wednesday 12 hours (7AM to 7PM) and now Thursday 12 hours too.
What does this mean for the sockeye bars above Chilliwack in a few days? My guess it will be dead until Friday and be dead again for 12 hours on Saturday. Some one needs to write a program to calculate this. ;D
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Category(s):
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0749-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net - Area E - Area 29- Fraser River Sockeye Openings
Fraser River Sockeye:
The Area E Gill Net fishery closed as scheduled at 10:00 hours Tuesday, August
31.
Further to FN0735, Gillnets open for 12 hours commencing at 07:00 hours
Wednesday, September 1 to 19:00 hours Wednesday, September 1 in Subareas 29-1
to 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, and 29-9 to 29-17.
V.O. # 2010-STN-GN-006
Gillnets open for 12 hours commencing at 07:00 hours Thursday, September 2 to
19:00 hours Thursday, September 2 in Subareas 29-1 to 29-4, 29-6, 29-7, and 29-
9 to 29-17.
V.O. # 2010-STN-GN-007
A maximum net length of 100 fathoms is in place for these opening. This means
that a maximum aggregate net length of 100 fathoms (approximately 187.5 metres)
is on the drum of the vessel.
The target species for this fishery is sockeye salmon although retention of
chinook, chum and pink salmon is permitted. Fisher harvesters are reminded
mandatory non-retention and non-possession of all coho, steelhead, and sturgeon
are in effect.
New for 2010 is the requirement for start and end fishing reports. Vessel
masters must, prior to leaving for the fishing grounds, phone AMR at 1-888-387-
0007 and provide a start fishing report. Refer to 2010 Area E Conditions of
Licence for more information including provisions for vessel masters using
electronic harvest logs.
Notes:
1. Maximum mesh size is 140 mm (approximately 5.5 inches). Maximum depth 60
meshes. Maximum hang ratio 3:1. Maximum corkline to web distance 45 cm.
2. Fishers are reminded that a mandatory harvest log (paper harvest log or
electronic paper log) and catch reporting program is in place for the 2010
season. At the end of each fishing day prior to 08:00 hrs of the next day, the
vessel master must, as a condition of licence, report their catch by and record
their catch information in their Salmon Log Book. Note that a report is
required for all fishing activity even if no fish are caught. Please refer to
appropriate sections of the 2010 Area E Conditions of Licence and Logbook
instructions for the reporting format and requirements.
3. All vessels must have operating revival tanks that meet the specifications
as outlined in the 2010 Area E conditions of licence.
4. Fishers are requested to avoid fishing among birds and not to run the line
if birds are near the net. Fishers are requested to retain all dead birds
which are entangled and to release live and unharmed birds by placing them in
the water. Please check all birds for metal bird bands (rings) on the leg. If
a bird is banded please contact Laurie Wilson with the band number and capture
date and location at 1-866-431-2473 (BIRD) or by the email below. Handle birds
with gloves, double bag dead birds and label each bird with date, time, and
location and store them on ice. Please call your local charter patrol to
organize pick-up or drop them off at a local DFO office. Alternatively, please
send photographs of birds with a reference object such as a coin, and the date,
time and location to laurie.wilson@ec.gc.ca. Your names and vessel names do
not need to be identified or included.
5. Fisheries and Oceans Canada is interested in reports of sea turtles in BC
waters. By documenting sightings we are able to learn more about how, when,
and where these turtles are using our waters. If you see or entangle a sea
turtle, please call this toll-free phone number: 1-866-I SAW ONE (1-866-472-
9663). Please include information such as the type of sea turtle seen (i.e.
leatherback), the location, and time of sighting and if entanglement has
occurred.
The next update on the progress of Fraser River sockeye runs will be on Friday,
September 3 in the PM following the next scheduled meeting of the Fraser River
Panel.
Recorded updates for Area E fleet are available at (604) 666-2828.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Barbara Mueller, Resource Manager (604)666-2370
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0749
Sent August 31, 2010 at 13:35
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Bought fish today at $10 per (not gutted) from today's opening. Much cheaper than the free fish that I have to harverst myself from the Fraser.
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there is no free fish. Everything has a price. I think the fishes I have been catching are at least $400 to $500 bucks each. Counting in the lack of experience and the huge amount of wrong or lost gear and all, plus related expenses.
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Bought fish today at $10 per (not gutted) from today's opening. Much cheaper than the free fish that I have to harverst myself from the Fraser.
Hey Clariki,
I am interested in buying some Sockeye myself. Heard there will be an opening tomorrow as well ending at 7:00 pm. Could you tell me where you are getting them at that price? (I'm not interesting in joining the hordes on the bar)
Email me at dougliu@telus.net
Thanks!!
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Steveston Fisherman's Wharf. Shop around. Most were selling $20 per fish or 3 for $50.00
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there is no free fish. Everything has a price. I think the fishes I have been catching are at least $400 to $500 bucks each. Counting in the lack of experience and the huge amount of wrong or lost gear and all, plus related expenses.
I know. I meant "free"
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Hey Clariki,
I am interested in buying some Sockeye myself. Heard there will be an opening tomorrow as well ending at 7:00 pm. Could you tell me where you are getting them at that price? (I'm not interesting in joining the hordes on the bar)
Email me at dougliu@telus.net
Thanks!!
It was a private, friend of a friend, thing. I don't know his name.
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Steveston Fisherman's Wharf. Shop around. Most were selling $20 per fish or 3 for $50.00
Picked some up for $8 earlier, much less gas than driving to chilliwack too and I didnt lose a single bit of tackle
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Picked some up for $8 earlier, much less gas than driving to chilliwack too and I didnt lose a single bit of tackle
Where abouts?
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Yes, i would want to know as well ;D
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Probably from the black market in the back lane... ;D
I don't want to buy from this source, however cheap, because I like sockeyes for sushi and those fish probably did not get bleeding done like a self caught fish. Good for bbq but not sushi.
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I was just wondering how successful people have been with all the commercial openings lately.
I've been putting off another trip out to the valley, but time seems to be running out.
Will it be worth the drive out this weekend?
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Will it be worth the drive out this weekend?
If you're asking whether you'll catch your daily limit in record time... ??? Nope!
If you're asking whether you'll enjoy the scenery and the serenity of spending some time out in nature - depends where you go ::)
But then again - I have no idea where you are driving from. Flip a coin - best 2 out of 3 wins.
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Picked up 10 for $10 bucks a fish tonight at Steveston. Medium sized fish, I asked for mostly males. Saw one boat with two springs. One was over 40lbs and a bar of chrome. He wanted $5 bucks a pound for it :o
No lineups but quite a few people trying to bargain.