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[absolon]

Regardless of the cause, and it goes well beyond globalization, and in spite of the gains made in other parts of the world, the fact remains that we as a society were better off then than we are now.

[Ed]

Regardless of the cause, and it goes well beyond globalization, and in spite of the gains made in other parts of the world, the fact remains that we as a society were better off then than we are now.

Better for who though? the middle class white man ?  I'm pretty sure if you ask anybody else or if you asked most women, the world is a lot better than 50 years ago. In your logic, then maybe it was even better 100 + years ago when women couldn't vote and colored people were openly discriminated against?

The fact is, now to make the same as you did before doing x amount of work. Now you need to do 5x to stay competative or to provide the same quality of living. Before having a post grad degree might have been a big deal, now it's pretty common to have a Bachelors Degree. The world from 50 years ago is more environmentally concious, smarter, more open to multiculturalism, and etc.  Only way the world was better 50 years ago is if some people are still stuck 50 years ago when everything around them got better or improved over the years.

[blueback]

Hey Nog,
I couldn't agree with you more on this. I have been aware of this nightmare of an agreement for about three weeks and have been telling everyone I know about it. A constitutional lawyer I know says that this has been something cooking in the Tory backrooms for quite some time and there has been very little mainstream media attention to this either, which I believe is a travesty. Whether you like this thing (which is hard to fathom IMHO ) or not, there should be a heck of a lot more public consultation in a treaty so far reaching. There are a few petitions currently on the go calling for a delay in ratification and more debate and this is a link to one of them.       http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/281/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=11824
Cheers,
Blueback

[adriaticum]

Better for who though? the middle class white man ?  I'm pretty sure if you ask anybody else or if you asked most women, the world is a lot better than 50 years ago. In your logic, then maybe it was even better 100 + years ago when women couldn't vote and colored people were openly discriminated against?

The fact is, now to make the same as you did before doing x amount of work. Now you need to do 5x to stay competative or to provide the same quality of living. Before having a post grad degree might have been a big deal, now it's pretty common to have a Bachelors Degree. The world from 50 years ago is more environmentally concious, smarter, more open to multiculturalism, and etc.  Only way the world was better 50 years ago is if some people are still stuck 50 years ago when everything around them got better or improved over the years.

Bla bla bla Ed..

We are talking economics here. Not gender, race, nationality...

Economically "as a whole" western civilization is worse than 40 years ago. We cannot support a family of 4 on 1 salary.
Yes there are a few who are better off now, but they are less than 1 %.
If you think your Batchelors Degree is worth anything, you've got another thing coming. Less people have survival skills.

We weren't as environmentally aware because we didn't need to be. Environmental awareness came as a result of a crisis. It's not something we had to work towards.
If we didn't over populate the planet we wouldn't have to worry about the environment.

Multiculturalism is not new in most parts of western civilization. It is relatively new in North America.
Multiculturalism doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make anything better. It economiccally doesn't contribute to our well being.
All it does it provides, people like me, who are interested in travel and learning about different cultures an opportunity to do so.
Globalization also doesn't mean things are global, doesn't mean you can travel more, live in more places.
All it does is provides mobility to capital and those who have it.
All it did was to provide those who did business in your community an opportunity to move that business to another community to make more profit.
So now you are suddenly out of a job and you have to work more to keep your standard of living.

But things are changing I think. People are beginning to understand that your neighbour is your best friend and if you are not taking care of your neighbour you are not taking care of yourself.

[IronNoggin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg

[adriaticum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg

Jolly good!

[bcguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTIOMJT5ubg

So true, but just the tip of the iceberg!!!
Treasonous comes to mind...

[Ed]

Bla bla bla Ed..

We are talking economics here. Not gender, race, nationality...

Economically "as a whole" western civilization is worse than 40 years ago. We cannot support a family of 4 on 1 salary.
Yes there are a few who are better off now, but they are less than 1 %.
If you think your Batchelors Degree is worth anything, you've got another thing coming. Less people have survival skills.

We weren't as environmentally aware because we didn't need to be. Environmental awareness came as a result of a crisis. It's not something we had to work towards.
If we didn't over populate the planet we wouldn't have to worry about the environment.

Multiculturalism is not new in most parts of western civilization. It is relatively new in North America.
Multiculturalism doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make anything better. It economiccally doesn't contribute to our well being.
All it does it provides, people like me, who are interested in travel and learning about different cultures an opportunity to do so.
Globalization also doesn't mean things are global, doesn't mean you can travel more, live in more places.
All it does is provides mobility to capital and those who have it.
All it did was to provide those who did business in your community an opportunity to move that business to another community to make more profit.
So now you are suddenly out of a job and you have to work more to keep your standard of living.

But things are changing I think. People are beginning to understand that your neighbour is your best friend and if you are not taking care of your neighbour you are not taking care of yourself.

It is pretty ignorant to think that the economy is not linked with sociology or the environment itself. We lived in a globalized world today so everything is somewhat connected with each other. I totally agree that "as a whole" the "western" civilization was better before, but hey too bad! the world is changing and the balance of power is totally different than the world 40 years ago! I'm not sure where you were during urbanization but bush wacking skills doesn't do you good in the city! But hey a bachelors degree or a master''s degree will get you a better paying job! I can see why you are stuck 40 years ago with your views on education.

You weren't environmentally aware because only the "western" civilization was polluting the world where the third world countries just got out the colonial period. Search up the dust storms in the USA, American Bison or the impacts of the Industrial Revolution in England. The only reason why it's such a big problem now is that people who were not priviledged to have the "western" lifestyle are starting to achieve a better quality of life. And with this new life comes a stronger economy through industries and etc (more pollution).

I agree that globalization provides more mobility to capital, but to say it only goes to those who have it is wrong. If it wasn't for globalization and trade, chinese people in Canada wouldn't have access to the food/products that would be available in China. From a media point of view, if it wasn't for globalization people in China wouldn't be able to experience the music + movies made in the Americas. What you are trying to describe is the whole concept and ideology of Capitalism! Capitalism = the foundation of western economics is the reason how the western civilziation got so wealthy, but it doesn't feel so good when countries like China are benefiting from it more so than ever. I understand that there might be some bitter feelings, especially since it's a common thing that companies go to countries with lower salaries, but isn't it wrong to blame the people who are making pennies and put more blame on the actual companies?

Like I said in my prevoius post, the world WAS better for the middle class white man but now it's better for everybody else!

[adriaticum]

Ed, I think there is a generational gap here.
You think that music and movies are benefiting China in some way and access to different foods means something to me here.

Let me summarize to you what the problem is.
My Fraser river here used to supply 500 million potato eaters in Europe with salmon for 100 years.
Now, my Faser river has to supply 1 billion potato eaters in Europe and 3 billion rice eaters in Asia.
That's really is globalization.
Population is the greatest pollution.

[Ed]

Ed, I think there is a generational gap here.
You think that music and movies are benefiting China in some way and access to different foods means something to me here.

Let me summarize to you what the problem is.
My Fraser river here used to supply 500 million potato eaters in Europe with salmon for 100 years.
Now, my Faser river has to supply 1 billion potato eaters in Europe and 3 billion rice eaters in Asia.
That's really is globalization.
Population is the greatest pollution.

My point of China having music and movies was referring to them improving their lifestyle to actually afford these luxuries.

Well technically the Fraser river does not belong to you, so it might be a problem with you but for everybody else life just got better. I'm pretty sure our First Nations were the original owners of this land. It was the potato eaters in europe that took it from them and now the rice eaters from Asia are buying the land out. Since you are complaining about population, I believe the baby boomers born during 1946-1964 are the most to blame? 50 years ago, birth control also wasn't as common!

Its a pity that we are selling our lands to another country, but hey if we didn't plan on selling our resources we should have developed some better industries!

[blueback]

Right on Rick Mercer!! You know, it seems funny to me that everyone that I've read, who opposes this agreement comes with facts, and references to those facts. The gov. folks only seem to come with platitudes and 'you really don't know as much as us important people, so don't worry because we say it's OK' comments. People, find a petition you like and sign it; write your MP; get this thing (at least) scrutinized by parliament. My children and yours depend on it!     

[Ed]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/China+plenty+options/7673939/story.html

nice article i found regarding the nexen acquisition.

[Novabonker]

Better for who though? the middle class white man ?

Why the constant bigotry Ed? Is racism really needed? I've found constant themes in your posts that point to hatred of the "white man". This is Canada. We're CANADIANS and that includes all races, religions and creeds. Your bigotry is disgusting and after reviewing some of your posts, it's a constant theme.

[Joey]

Yes,yes sell every thing we have,sell CP rail, sell CN rail,sell BC hydro,sell shark fin soup,sell all the resources we have and end up nothing for the future......freaking people.

[Ed]

Why the constant bigotry Ed? Is racism really needed? I've found constant themes in your posts that point to hatred of the "white man". This is Canada. We're CANADIANS and that includes all races, religions and creeds. Your bigotry is disgusting and after reviewing some of your posts, it's a constant theme.

No i just had to point out that 50 years ago it wasn't better. Sadly 50 years ago racism was something that was quite common so i had to bring out the "race" card. If you want to put it in Canadian terms, then Canadians now are better off than 50 years ago. My posts just state the "facts" of what reality is like, and for most of the people saying that it was better off 50 years ago are probably not immigrants, women, or anything outside the "main society" of those times. The fact that history was like that in the past disgusts me and i'm glad that the world has evolved since then.