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Author Topic: 5 wt on the vedder?  (Read 1999 times)

noobfisher

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5 wt on the vedder?
« on: April 01, 2012, 10:03:34 AM »

Possible to target cutties and bulltrout with a 5 wt rod on the vedder with a floating line?  Or am I to under gunned with a 9 foot 5 wt?
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Rp3Flyfisher

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 11:29:39 AM »

Depends where you are going to fish.

If you are fishing in Slower water, you will be fine, but if you hook into a larger Bull in faster water, you may be undergunned!


Cutties, no problem anywhere on the Vedder with a 5wt.

Rick
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Tight Lines & Fun Times

Rick Passek
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typhoon

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 04:38:47 PM »

Not only where but when. If there is a reasonable probability of hooking something larger then you will be significantly undergunned and will harm the fish.
Sep-May should be off limits for 5wt rods.
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Rp3Flyfisher

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 05:06:21 PM »

Not only where but when. If there is a reasonable probability of hooking something larger then you will be significantly undergunned and will harm the fish.
Sep-May should be off limits for 5wt rods.

Agreed!!!

Rick
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Rick Passek
http://www.theflyfishfanatic.com

Author of:
The Freshman FlyFisher "A Beginners Guide for a new Generation"
&
The Freshman FlyFishers Insect Guide

Pro Staff:
Leader Sales (RIO, Sage, Redington, Dr Slick, Renzetti, Islander, Lamson, C&F Design, Moby Nets, Bradly Smokers)
Howard Hackle

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noobfisher

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 05:29:50 PM »

ok sounds like the 5wt will have to wait :)
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nickredway

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 07:50:40 AM »

Of course you can fish your five weight, just fish for the appropriate sized species, use a light 6lb or less leader and don't try and play out any steelhead you hook just snap them off.
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typhoon

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 08:14:53 AM »

Of course you can fish your five weight, just fish for the appropriate sized species, use a light 6lb or less leader and don't try and play out any steelhead you hook just snap them off.
So you want him to leave hooks with trailing line in a wild steelhead?
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nickredway

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 08:45:53 AM »

Yes that's exactly what I want, it's better than playing them to death.If you think that it is "unethical" to target Vedder cutties or bulls with the appropriate tackle and snap off rather than play out any Steelhead hooked then I suggest you take up another hobby, maybe knitting? I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure that being hooked as bycatch by a guy fishing a five weight for trout doesn't figure very high in the list of current threats to wild BC Steelhead.
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typhoon

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 08:55:04 AM »

So how many dead wild steelhead due to ignorance is acceptable?
Really, this isn't any different than dragging a wild fish up on the sand before releasing it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:44:51 AM by typhoon »
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Noahs Arc

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 12:36:33 PM »

Hey noob buy yourself a back roads map and fill your boots on the many local spots that hold cutthroat and or bulls.
Your chances of hooking steel are greater then hooking a cut on the vedder right now
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nickredway

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 05:51:35 PM »

So how many dead wild steelhead due to ignorance is acceptable?
Really, this isn't any different than dragging a wild fish up on the sand before releasing it.
That is ridiculous. You are actually arguing that on a river where people can legally target wild steelies with any kind of gear including bait, giant spoons etc that somebody targeting differnt species with trout gear is more of a threat than the mortality caused by people actually targeting steel and that if you do happen to hook into one with trout gear you will do more damage snapping one off with a tiny fry pattern in its yap than playing them out on a 5 weight?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 05:57:04 PM by nickredway »
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typhoon

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 07:16:18 PM »

That is ridiculous. You are actually arguing that on a river where people can legally target wild steelies with any kind of gear including bait, giant spoons etc that somebody targeting differnt species with trout gear is more of a threat than the mortality caused by people actually targeting steel and that if you do happen to hook into one with trout gear you will do more damage snapping one off with a tiny fry pattern in its yap than playing them out on a 5 weight?
Yes, I am saying that. If someone were flossing steelies with 6/0 hooks I would say the same thing.
It's all about intent.
If your intent is to leave hooks and trailing line in wild steelhead then I will call you on it.
If you were intentionally targeting wild steelhead for C and R I would call you on it.
If you drag a wild steelhead up the bank I will call you on it.
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nickredway

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 07:36:12 PM »

It's all about intent? OK so if I am targeting trout with a 4 or 5 weight I am certainly not intending to leave a hook in a steely, in fact I am not even intending to hook a steely and am reasonably unlikely to do so, especially with a floating line, in the unfortunate event that I do I would choose to snap them off rather than play them out as I believe that this is the less harmful of the two options and you think that this is the same as dragging one up on the beach?

On a second point if you a really saying that you will call people out who target wild steel for C and R then you should really take up a different sport, if you are targeting hatchery fish you are targeting wilds end of story!!!!
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Speyfitter

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 10:15:34 PM »

I think the recommendation to just fish the 5 weight and if you hook into something that you can't comfortably manage to shore in a reasonable time frame that you should break off, is a fair, and good one.

I used to work at a hatchery that has a hatchery steelhead program. We have broodstock anglers who catch steelhead for the hatchery by hook and line.
They would catch a steelhead and put it in a tube with mesh ends obviously so they could not escape but it still allowed water to flow through. They would then tie that tube with a rope, with steelhead in it, to a rock or log in the river in a quiet area of the river and then call us to come get the fish. We would fill up the tote on the back of the truck with water and drive down to the location where the fish was located about a half hour to hour later (keep in mind this fish has already been played by hook and line).
We would hike or walk down, depending on the location of the fish relative to the truck, with a heavy duty back pack. We would fill a heavy duty clear plastic bag with just enough water to submerge the fishes gills only. We would then put the bag inside the back pack. Then we would pick the fish up in tube (we do not take the fish out of the tube) and put the fish in the plastic bag head first, as I just mentiond, so it's gills are submerged so it can breath. Anymore water and the back pack is NOT manageable (a 10 +/- fish plus enough water to submerge the gills is a good sized load. Then the assistant would help mount the pack on the backpackers back. We hiked the fish out of some rough holes sometimes, but that was the nature of what was producing to get broodstock sometimes. And then we would finally get to the truck, we'd rest the backpack on the tailgate, take it off, then dump the fish, still in tube, out of the plastic bag into the tote and then close it and drive to the hatchery. Upon arriving at the hatchery we would throw the fish into a condo and finally remove it from the tube. About 5-15 minutes later we would innoculate the fish with clove oil, take a scale sample, give it a shot (to prevent disease), measure, and weigh the fish along with other pertinent details. The fish, could, at times, be out of the water for up to a minute while knocked out to do these important fish culture duties. We would then put it back into the water in it's condo where it would revive and a day later we would put it in a holding pond with other adult steelhead who have undergone the same thing. A few weeks to a few monthes later, they would again be knocked out with clove oil and live spawned (steelhead and most trout are live spawned, only salmon are generally killed during the fish culture process of egg/milt taking). During the live spawning the fish again could be out of water for up to a minute it seems at times. Their bellies are repeatedly massaged to get as much milt or eggs out for the fish culture process. They are then put back in a condo to revive where they sit over night. A couple days later they are often released as "kelts" back into the river.

So looking at the above ordeal, my expierience has been the fish generally fair much better than we think. During my 3 years involved we typically had a 95+% survival rate from the time we took them to the time we released them.  One very important factor when handlng fish is water temperature; colder temperatures have higher oxygen levels often times, at least in rivers. My boss had a rule that we wouldn't start taking fish for the broodstock program until the river temperature was less than 10 degrees celsius.
Certainly proper handlng techniques and respect are deserved by the fish from us but they are quite hearty - heartier than we give them credit for. 

So I don't see any problem with going out to target bulls & trout, and if you manage to hook into a steelhead, well use your common sense. But I'm not going to get wound up about a wild steelhead floating around with a hook in it's mouth. At the same time, use your head. It's not gonna make your **** bigger if you land a big steelhead on a 5 weight rod. There is no shame in pointing and breaking off. I would give you a landed status if you told me you hooked one and broke it off as far as I'm concerned. Count that as one on your belt if you are so inclined.
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typhoon

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Re: 5 wt on the vedder?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 01:34:32 AM »

It's all about intent? OK so if I am targeting trout with a 4 or 5 weight I am certainly not intending to leave a hook in a steely, in fact I am not even intending to hook a steely and am reasonably unlikely to do so, especially with a floating line, in the unfortunate event that I do I would choose to snap them off rather than play them out as I believe that this is the less harmful of the two options and you think that this is the same as dragging one up on the beach?

On a second point if you a really saying that you will call people out who target wild steel for C and R then you should really take up a different sport, if you are targeting hatchery fish you are targeting wilds end of story!!!!

Well by all means, fill your boots. Be sure to post your hero shots on here and flybc. I'm sure everyone will be receptive to your great accomplishment.
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