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Author Topic: Sharkfin Soup  (Read 86446 times)

Ed

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2011, 08:16:51 AM »

 You haven't checked hard enough. Caviars are from farmed sturgeon, 10 years before they harvest it.

Time for shark farms! And trust me Sturgeon farms weren't around when Caviar was first being consumed, it was probably the solution so Sturgeons wont become extinct.


Another reason why the Government will probably not support the international banning of Shark Fin, well even if they did, wont make much of a difference.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/11/09/bc-china-mining-deals.html
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 09:09:32 AM by Ed »
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silver ghost

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2011, 12:44:08 AM »

That is true, but the best way to revive a species is probably to leave it alone and not fish it even if it is catch and release. Its probably not the most ethical thing to put these ancient beasts through the amount of stress of being caught, taken a picture of, and then release. Last time I checked that doesn't make them live longer, and what do we benefit from it ? A nice long fight vs a fish? A nice picture so you can post it online? I'm not sure what the concern is here? The species itself (sharks) or do people have a problem with the practice fishermen use to kill sharks?

In reality, I doubt that Vancouver will ban Shark Fin, since it would probably piss off most restaurant owners in the Vancouver/Richmond area. The economic costs of banning shark fin in Vancouver will probably be higher than the environmental "gains". If you really care about the environment, there should be more protests regarding the oil sands in Alberta, lumber industries in BC, and not to protest something that we will make very minimal impact. No offence but we have 30 million people in Canada in total, out of 30 million how many consume shark fin ? In Shanghai there is aprox, 18 million people, in Beijing another 12-15 million and those are just 2 cities.


As long as poverty is around, its hard to educate people to not harvest the sharks for their fins, because at the end of the day, its those fins that are putting food on the table. And banning it in BC, will not cut down the demand by much.

Interesting points. I have never fished sturgeon before, dontreally have a strong desire too but dont think it should be banned either so long as you go with a guide who knows what hes doing and takes steps to avoid harm to the fish.

Im kind of confused about your position though, because on one hand you are saying to ban sturgeon fishing but on the other hand you say there is no point banning shark fin  :D ? I get where youre coming from, but if we can save 50 sharks per year say, I think that is still making a difference  8) jus sayin
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Ed

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 12:36:17 PM »

Interesting points. I have never fished sturgeon before, dontreally have a strong desire too but dont think it should be banned either so long as you go with a guide who knows what hes doing and takes steps to avoid harm to the fish.

Im kind of confused about your position though, because on one hand you are saying to ban sturgeon fishing but on the other hand you say there is no point banning shark fin  :D ? I get where youre coming from, but if we can save 50 sharks per year say, I think that is still making a difference  8) jus sayin

I've never gone sturgeon fishing either but I can't see fighting them for 15 min being a healthy dose of cardio for them.

I believe that shark fin should be banned because Sharks to act as a very important part of our ecosystem, but I think there are so many more practices in our society that has a way larger impact on our environment. Instead of trying to create media attention and campaigning to ban shark fin in Canadian cities (I can almost guarantee that we account for a very small percentage of the total consumption of shark fin) why don't these people spend more time doing something a bit more productive? Unless we can stop the demand of shark fin from the countries in Asia or other parts of the world, campaigning for banning shark fin soup is almost as pointless as the people wasting their lives and our tax dollars "hanging out, smoking pot" at the Vancouver Art Gallery.

Like i've said in my previous posts, the sad truth of why it will be very difficult to save the sharks is simply that outside of our country, a lot of the world is living in poverty or very poor conditions. Back in the days when we were at a similar state, many animals ie. American Bison etc have all been species that have been almost pushed to extinction. But over time and as our livelihood got better, people became more concerned about other factors of life such as the environment. For the people who fish the sharks, its hard for them to comprehend the importance of the environment when they are struggling to put food on the table everyday.
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silver ghost

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 11:53:36 AM »

I get what you're saying. It makes sense for these people to better use their time attacking the broader issue.

thankfully greenpeace does wonderful work regarding this matter ex. exposure and education
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Ed

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roseph

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2011, 08:13:32 AM »

That is great to see.  I think other businesses will follow if it affects their bottom line. 

It's easier for customers to make an informed decision when the country they're from or respect has banned something like selling sharkfin.  I don't see anything negative in putting efforts towards a ban.  It brings the issue to people who might otherwise not be aware and makes our position on the matter clear.
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Sandy

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2011, 01:56:31 PM »

I agree with you Roseph, many immigrant..oops! new Canadian groups cannot eat or import some foods that they considered traditional or just cos they liked it this goes for the Asians as well.
Just because you are from a certain ethnic group does not mean you have the right to break the laws of your new homeland or expect special treatment.
Ban Sharkfining and outlaw the possession of fins or products Fishing quotas do not work, If you know that the penalty for possession is going to be stiff, there will be a better chance of squelching this trade. Of course that takes a legal system that has some guts! another discussion, another day.

I want real haggis and royal game soup!
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finding your limits is fun, it can also be VERY painful.

If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

liketofish

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2011, 03:40:05 PM »

What is the justification to ban Chinese in this country from eating shark's fin soup when the West allows the slaughtering of the blue fin tuna & the Japanese fleets are still hunting whales? Which are the more endangered species? I believe this is hypocritical. It is more about this - I can eat what I like but not you. I support more regulating & monitoring of shark harvest, not banning shark's fin. Sharks, like tuna & whale, should be allowed to be harvested by men on a controlled basis. Sharks just killed a few people recently in Australia, not to say there are many unreported attacks in the world. Do you want to swim in shark infested waters or fall off your boat in those waters after man stop hunting them altogether and their population explode? We see what happen to the salmon when seals are not hunted by man. If they don't find enough food in the open ocean, they gather at river mouths or even swim up tributary rivers (like the Vedder) to decimate the fish near their spawning ground. The future is not all that rosy.  ::)
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Ed

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 03:21:43 PM »

What is the justification to ban Chinese in this country from eating shark's fin soup when the West allows the slaughtering of the blue fin tuna & the Japanese fleets are still hunting whales? Which are the more endangered species? I believe this is hypocritical. It is more about this - I can eat what I like but not you. I support more regulating & monitoring of shark harvest, not banning shark's fin. Sharks, like tuna & whale, should be allowed to be harvested by men on a controlled basis. Sharks just killed a few people recently in Australia, not to say there are many unreported attacks in the world. Do you want to swim in shark infested waters or fall off your boat in those waters after man stop hunting them altogether and their population explode? We see what happen to the salmon when seals are not hunted by man. If they don't find enough food in the open ocean, they gather at river mouths or even swim up tributary rivers (like the Vedder) to decimate the fish near their spawning ground. The future is not all that rosy.  ::)

finally someone that can see the bigger picture. totally agree with that.
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roseph

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 03:36:48 PM »

What is the justification to ban Chinese in this country from eating shark's fin soup when the West allows the slaughtering of the blue fin tuna & the Japanese fleets are still hunting whales? Which are the more endangered species? I believe this is hypocritical. It is more about this - I can eat what I like but not you. I support more regulating & monitoring of shark harvest, not banning shark's fin. Sharks, like tuna & whale, should be allowed to be harvested by men on a controlled basis. Sharks just killed a few people recently in Australia, not to say there are many unreported attacks in the world. Do you want to swim in shark infested waters or fall off your boat in those waters after man stop hunting them altogether and their population explode? We see what happen to the salmon when seals are not hunted by man. If they don't find enough food in the open ocean, they gather at river mouths or even swim up tributary rivers (like the Vedder) to decimate the fish near their spawning ground. The future is not all that rosy.  ::)

wow!  man I hope you're not in charge of anything important.
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Ed

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2011, 03:26:49 PM »

wow!  man I hope you're not in charge of anything important.

I beg to differ, its not a crime stating the sad truth with the reality of this world. The world is a lot bigger than just BC and Canada.
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liketofish

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2011, 02:29:56 AM »

I don't know what is wrong with my position. It is about fairness. Seal hunt, for example, has been the way of life for eons of time of the Eskimo before the white men arrived this continent. Why should the Eskimo's traditional way of life be ruined by them being targeted by the extremist elements of the educated western industrialized world, such as the animal rights folks or greenpeace? Just because seals are cute and have been some one's childhood toys? The Inuits' traditional seal hunt has been targeted, the bloody scenes twisted & horrified, and the mass media caught on the frenzy (and the same tactics are being used against shark hunt). Seal fur & products were banned in many parts of the world. The native Inuit people's way of life, their income source dried up. Their youth who are supposed to learn hunting from their elders and spending time on the wild wrestling with nature are losing direction in life, and in boredom turning to boosts, drugs, and they have the highest suicide rate among young people of the country. It is genocide, man. Even some of the original founder of Greenpeace regretted the harm done to the Inuit people.

Why the heck the West don't turn the cameras to their own slaughter houses, the fish markets or aboard the fishing boats in the West. They don't waste anything or not cruel enough? Look at the shrimp fleets. How many other species of fish have been accidentally killed by the shrimp trawlers or being met with cruel handling? Why shouldn't the West stop eating their shrimps? I get it. You can enjoy your shrimp salad but we cannot drink our soup (even when most Chinese don't have shark fin soup once per year as it is only a ceremonial dish while the West eat shrimp whole year round). Wastage? Don't just take the fin & dump the whole mercury laden shark body? Wait a minute. Those shrimp boats just dump tons of other little fishes overboard to get a bucket of shrimps. That is not wastage? Locally, don't we see chum roe taken while the whole ocean fresh & edible chum dumped here? Talking about wastage!!! Why then no western media frenzy over such wastage? Perhaps China should bring their filiming crews here to expose the hypocrisy.

Now the animal rights group, the eco scientists, the environmentali freaks (oh yes, the shark dive operators too) are stirring up the sentiment against the Chinese eating shark fin soup in urnest like they did seals. In shark, some of these groups find another hot button to push. When the issue is hotly contested, the donation/funding to these groups will pour in. In reality, they may never achieve the goals of shutting down shark hunting in the world, but many small fishing communities of the world are going to suffer with dwindling income with less places to sell to. Who know what will happen to those communities and their young people. These people don't have universities to go to. Fishing can be their way of life for life. The human cost of a complete ban can be enormous. Why is it that these folks can lose their income? They will do more damage to fish in the oceans? Oh well, so why don't we shut down the shrimp fleets, the mile-long high sea drift net fleets, or even salmon farms here while they have done so much damage to wild stocks in Europe and probably here already.

Let's be fair. The effort should be to pressure for regulating sharks harvest among countries, just like blue fin tuna & whales. Not a complete ban on shark fin or shark harvest. To do so is to me a direct assault to the Chinese cultural tradition. The Chinese nation and its people are no longer a push over like the old days. Better be a fair play to them, or else they may pull the plug on the West on their debts .... ;)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 11:19:09 AM by liketofish »
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Sandy

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2011, 10:11:33 PM »

liketofish,
you bring up some very valid points, first regulation is often brought in to place because the public find a certain practice distasteful; very few people seem to have a liking to the shark killing ,no matter who reports it. The argue meant that other species are treated just as bad does not cut it; akin to complaining everyone else was speeding too! We cannot continue to pillage the seas and hope that it's bounty will never end.
 I happen to agree that the native peoples should be able to hunt and kill their traditional foods in support of their traditional lifestyle, but any sport or commercial harvesting should be open to all Canadians without bias. You are right in that many folks, too many, do not consider that domestic stock are not an option,  should it be a forced option on natives especially so to the northern native,and we non-natives eat domestic stock simply because it was and is easy to get.

your point about by-catch wastage is also valid, I  believe that any commercial fisher should have to land all fish caught and those fish should be recorded. The system we now have just subscribes to wastage; licences should be based on total amounts caught and not just landed (all fish caught should be landed ). Right now you can buy haddock marked product of China ,does not say it was caught of the coast of Europe. caught, processed, packaged and transfers to cargo ships at sea.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:14:20 PM by Sandy »
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finding your limits is fun, it can also be VERY painful.

If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

Sandy

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2011, 10:24:37 PM »

as for the Chinese pulling their debt? a naive statement at best, think about it! China survives and has grown simply because it is a source of cheap labour and hence products that the so-called developed world needs or wants. What would happen if China pulled it's markers in? some countries will have to basically become insolvent, therefore they cannot buy products from.... you guessed it China, now what? wait, what about the other countries that cannot pay too? China needs exports to stay afloat right? or it's growth comes to a halt ala the US, they also have to give trade loans so that the client can buy their products, around and around it goes until someone stops the wheel. China is now no differant than the other leading countries and is just as vulnerable to the foibles of world economics, as is beginning to show up now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 10:45:43 PM by Sandy »
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finding your limits is fun, it can also be VERY painful.

If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

Bassonator

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Re: Sharkfin Soup
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2011, 10:51:29 PM »

How time changes things, anyone remember the mudshark derbies back in the day, I forgot now who sponsored it but let me tell you alot of boats came in loaded with dead fish. You should have seen the sea floor of horseshoe bay at the end of the derby. But I digress, after seeing how the fins are harvested, there has to be a better way. I blame the fish farms. ;D




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