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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1340738 times)

banx

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1785 on: November 26, 2015, 06:05:49 PM »

Once again, assume what ever makes you happy. Chris seems to have fun spending lots of time on here. Do you think a double standard is needed here?  You may want to spend more time posting scientific facts than worrying about mythical thoughts of who I am.  But if you are having fun, carry on. :)

I think there should be a double standard. look at what chris has done for his local rivers. from volunteering to sit on boards and have discussions, to actually doing the leg work and picking up garbage, and likely a host of other crap we have no idea about.

maybe your one of the guys that does a ton and wants ZERO recognition.  I work closely with those types and without them my job would be very difficult.... it's you just don't come across that way...you like people to know when they are (or could be) wrong.  and the zero recognition type don't usually roll like that.  ;)

if your constant posting of propaganda links is the result of one 'bunk' donation, don't worry about it man, i bought something back in 1996 that was also bunk..... but I let it go.

maybe, with your stellar google skills you could start posting links where closed containment systems are becoming viable. or where  REAL progress regarding environmental sustainability in these open pens is taking place. .. is that not what you want? legions upon legions of wild pacific salmon running free and healthy? or is that a conflict of interest?

my browser protector keeps telling me your salmon farm websites are also 'high risk' is that just a coincidence as well?


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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1786 on: November 26, 2015, 06:38:19 PM »

Why is it when the anti-farm crowd has no science to back up their claim of farming being detrimental to wild, caricature attacks start. Nothing new though. I noticed it all the time when I was believing in Morton. Now it just seems silly. Btw I do not think it is anyones business or brag about who I donate to or volunteer  for these days. Fun times though. :)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 06:50:25 PM by Fisherbob »
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1787 on: November 26, 2015, 06:56:47 PM »

I think there should be a double standard. look at what chris has done for his local rivers. from volunteering to sit on boards and have discussions, to actually doing the leg work and picking up garbage, and likely a host of other crap we have no idea about.

maybe your one of the guys that does a ton and wants ZERO recognition.  I work closely with those types and without them my job would be very difficult.... it's you just don't come across that way...you like people to know when they are (or could be) wrong.  and the zero recognition type don't usually roll like that.  ;)

if your constant posting of propaganda links is the result of one 'bunk' donation, don't worry about it man, i bought something back in 1996 that was also bunk..... but I let it go.

maybe, with your stellar google skills you could start posting links where closed containment systems are becoming viable. or where  REAL progress regarding environmental sustainability in these open pens is taking place. .. is that not what you want? legions upon legions of wild pacific salmon running free and healthy? or is that a conflict of interest?

my browser protector keeps telling me your salmon farm websites are also 'high risk' is that just a coincidence as well?
Another good post Banx, as usual. … Chris does tons for angler and fish advocacy; of that there is no doubt. His work with the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and Chilliwack Vedder River Clean up Society is unquestioned and is perhaps the reason these two organizations are still functioning and functioning well.

Here’s the thing though … he firmly believes BC salmon farms are the biggest reason salmon populations are declining.  Some here, me especially, don’t believe that; we think there are far more and bigger reasons and all have been discussed here and on other sites, ad nauseam.
When Chris posts what he posts, a few of try to show the many younger readers on this site he may not be scientifically accurate, may simply be “posting from the heart”, or what he has been told by others.  For some of us that is simply not good enough, hence our posts.  I think Fisherbobs posts reflect that line of thinking.
I suggest if people don’t like what we say, dismiss it and go on to other things.

Interestingly, although Chris and I fight like cats and dogs on salmon farming here on FWR, and at the Long Table (although he is not nearly as vocal there ;)) we are really pretty good friends … perhaps it's something to do with aging that does that to people with nearly common interests  ;D
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1788 on: November 26, 2015, 07:59:50 PM »

Another good post Banx, as usual. … Chris does tons for angler and fish advocacy; of that there is no doubt. His work with the Fraser Valley Salmon Society and Chilliwack Vedder River Clean up Society is unquestioned and is perhaps the reason these two organizations are still functioning and functioning well.

Here’s the thing though … he firmly believes BC salmon farms are the biggest reason salmon populations are declining.  Some here, me especially, don’t believe that; we think there are far more and bigger reasons and all have been discussed here and on other sites, ad nauseam.
When Chris posts what he posts, a few of try to show the many younger readers on this site he may not be scientifically accurate, may simply be “posting from the heart”, or what he has been told by others.  For some of us that is simply not good enough, hence our posts.  I think Fisherbobs posts reflect that line of thinking.
I suggest if people don’t like what we say, dismiss it and go on to other things.

Interestingly, although Chris and I fight like cats and dogs on salmon farming here on FWR, and at the Long Table (although he is not nearly as vocal there ;)) we are really pretty good friends … perhaps it's something to do with aging that does that to people with nearly common interests  ;D
I will sleep well tonight after reading this but tomorrow is another day. ;D ;D ;D

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1789 on: November 26, 2015, 08:18:42 PM »

Just don't post crap and we'll be fine :)  Go to bed oldtimer ;)
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salmonrook

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1790 on: November 26, 2015, 08:46:37 PM »

Yes, I did mention the Suzuki commissioned report because up to this point you have not answered my question on where you are getting your information from.  I keep asking but you keep dodging.  I brought up the Suzuki report (a report commissioned by an environmental non-governmental organization that openly opposes open net pen aquaculture) to see if you could find where antibiotics and chemicals are brought up in that report as one of those cumulative impacts.  It may appear “vague” because the authors at that time believed there were multiple factors involved and that there was no direct evidence that available to suggest what particular factor caused the reduced survival of the 2000 brood in that area of the Broughton.  From that standpoint, the authors are not that far off because if you had read Cohen (Remember that report I use with little to no backup with data…lol?  The one with testimony from Dr. Randall Peterman…That guy with no data to backup his claims either?) you would have noticed that he didn’t conclude that sea lice, on a different front, were the main cause of Fraser Sockeye declines.  I suggest that your opinion of the Suzuki report soured when it did not fully implicated salmon farms, so then it became “vague” and not worth mentioning anymore.  First time I heard someone on this board that opposes fish farms disagree with a report commissioned by a group that opposes fish farms.

 That report was inconclusive  why would I use it to backup my point ?My opinion never soured as I didn't choose the report in the first place,you did, probably  because it was inconclusive to make your point.
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salmonrook

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1791 on: November 26, 2015, 09:00:22 PM »


Unfortunately, “Arts & Opinion” is an opinion piece – not a scientific study.  In fact, that website (dated 2005) contains no scientific references for the information it uses.  It also talks about salmon farms in Maine which is a different regulatory environment.  Cypermethrin is not even used on BC fish farms to my knowledge.  It provides no context about the use of SLICE in BC such as frequency, conditions it is applied, or other management strategies.  However, considering this is opinion piece is from 2005 I am not surprised that it is not current with what is going on today with fish husbandry.  Antibiotic use on BC fish farms has decreased by more than half since 2005.  It is actually 50 to 5 grams per tonne nowadays.  It also provides no context about the frequency and what conditions antibiotics are used.  Most of the feed provided to BC farmed fish contain no antibiotics.  So much for this source of information.


Its tells of past practices and does have info on Slice and it doesn't matter that you call it an 'opinion piece" it still has info and numbers on what was done for the time .The fact is the industry learned from this over use of antibiotic and as you say they don't use as much and at a different frequency during the year.Good did come out of this and trust the data in this report /article.
 You have quoted the dfo website as well and while they do report info, one is never sure how much is included.
 
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aquapaloosa

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1792 on: November 26, 2015, 09:38:33 PM »

Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.

The interview starts at 3:10

https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 09:40:42 PM by aquapaloosa »
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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1793 on: November 26, 2015, 09:56:29 PM »

That report was inconclusive  why would I use it to backup my point ?My opinion never soured as I didn't choose the report in the first place,you did, probably  because it was inconclusive to make your point.

The study wasn't inconclusive - that's your own conclusion.

The authors state:
We conclude that this low productivity is a result of cumulative impacts from marine adult migration,
through freshwater spawning and incubation, to early marine residence.


I never suggested that I thought the study was inconclusive - you did.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 10:09:50 PM by shuswapsteve »
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1794 on: November 26, 2015, 10:04:50 PM »

Its tells of past practices and does have info on Slice and it doesn't matter that you call it an 'opinion piece" it still has info and numbers on what was done for the time .The fact is the industry learned from this over use of antibiotic and as you say they don't use as much and at a different frequency during the year.Good did come out of this and trust the data in this report /article.
 You have quoted the dfo website as well and while they do report info, one is never sure how much is included.

Hey, if you want to defend that garbage go ahead - I won't.  Funny how you want information backed up, but that opinion piece provides no references in order to back up that information and numbers. I attached the DFO website because the graphs show how much antibiotics and SLICE have been used since the mid-90s. If you are not sure if it's not all included you could contact that aquaculture branch. With Trudeau at the helm now you should get a quicker response.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1795 on: November 26, 2015, 10:08:52 PM »

Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.

The interview starts at 3:10

https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE

This is how it should be. Now the department can be more proactive and respond to these questions instead of having activists interpret what they are saying. Scientists like Miller should be able to come right out and respond about the science she is involved in.  It will be more difficult now for people like Morton to twist the facts or cherry pick what should be relayed to the public.  Thanks Mr. Prime Minister!
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salmonrook

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1796 on: November 26, 2015, 10:39:04 PM »

The study wasn't inconclusive - that's your own conclusion.

The authors state:
We conclude that this low productivity is a result of cumulative impacts from marine adult migration,
through freshwater spawning and incubation, to early marine residence.


I never suggested that I thought the study was inconclusive - you did.
Yup, it sure doesn't draw a single clear conclusion
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1797 on: November 26, 2015, 11:03:37 PM »

Yup, it sure doesn't draw a single clear conclusion

Rarely do you get single factors acting alone in biological systems as they can be inter-related, but I can understand how many fish farm critics would like a single smoking gun.
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Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1798 on: November 27, 2015, 06:53:11 AM »

Kristy Miller "unmuzzled". Anti salmon farming types sure quiet about this interview. Seems she was a better pawn for activistswhen she was muzzled. Now that she is free to speak...not so much. This is just the beginning.

The interview starts at 3:10

https://youtu.be/sovKDToTFNE
Very interesting and worth the watch. Thanks Aquapaloosa :)
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1799 on: November 27, 2015, 07:59:15 AM »

Very interesting and worth the watch. Thanks Aquapaloosa :)
Wow!  The virus was not found in Atlantic salmon and was found in sockeye 1000km from the Fraser River (and fish farms)  Wow!

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