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[RalphH]

don't think the SCOC gave First Nations exclusive rights to all fish either but DFO is currently managing it that way.

Has anyone ever stopped to think just how many pounds of salmon a person can eat in a year, have ceremonies with, etc? Then take the first nations population and to some math on it? I haven't but I bet there is no where near the amount of salmon eaten has taken.

I didn't say SCOC did give them rights to all the fish.Another good example of people distorting what I say. It also makes me doubt your claims about dealing with DFO. You also talk like no one other than FNs are catching salmon in BC which is another gross distortion.

One has to consider what the salmon returns that matter to Fraser River FNs have been like for several years;

- a series of years  with the worst sockeye returns on record
- consistent high in river temperatures that cause high mortality and reduced spawning success
- the Big Bar slide
- spring and early summer chinooks numbers have fallen off a cliff.
- even  late summer Shuswap chinook have had depressed returns

we still have major conservation issues with Interior steelhead and coho.

Even over last 10 years we gotten some kind of fisheries when the numbers supported it - there were openings for sockeye in 2014, 2018 and 2022. We have had a pink opening every cycle since for over 20 years. The only shut down of the Fraser happened sometime in the late 90s when they closed it because a lot of anglers " tell the difference between a wild IF coho and a pink salmon" That was documented.

I am also sure there has been a similar situation on the Skeena and salmon angling has been shut to allow FNs their to harvest springs in place of sockeye.

BTW the number of FNs who are entitled to receive salmon under the FN fishing agreements with DFO are used to calculate their allowable catch. That would be FNs with status who live in the Fraser watershed or historically fished the Fraser. Other FNs in BC or Canada do not have an entitlement to receive fish or fish outside their own traditional territories.

[Dave]

As I’ve said before, kudos to Ralph as he is one of the very few who advocate for fish

[Roderick]

As I have said before in past years, DFO policy (which I think needs to be changed) is that rec fisheries for pink and sockeye are always tied to commercial openings.  If there aren't enough fish for a commie opening then we recreational fishers don't get to fish. 

There are still steelhead, coho, springs, and about a quarter of the run of sockeye coming in.  Some rec fishers might have difficulties distinguishing between species, but the nets just kill em all. 

[Darko]

As I have said before in past years, DFO policy (which I think needs to be changed) is that rec fisheries for pink and sockeye are always tied to commercial openings.  If there aren't enough fish for a commie opening then we recreational fishers don't get to fish. 

There are still steelhead, coho, springs, and about a quarter of the run of sockeye coming in.  Some rec fishers might have difficulties distinguishing between species, but the nets just kill em all.

this is the craziest part to me because lets say for example a gill net or set net or whatever picks up a wild steelhead or coho in between 50-200 other fish. Out of 100 times I am willing to bet that only one time or less would it actually be seen in time and released for the fish to have a decent chance of surviving. Whereas for an angler to catch a steelhead in the first place on lures in the tidal fraser would be very rare, they will be looking at the specific fish for a while and likely there are minimum 5-10 other people around them that will notice. though of-course I know that governments are often not logical and make choices based off other factors.

[RalphH]

As I have said before in past years, DFO policy (which I think needs to be changed) is that rec fisheries for pink and sockeye are always tied to commercial openings. 

Yes well that is  another result of DFO and the Federal Government going to court and ending up in SCOC and getting a negative ruling they were not expecting. The priority you quote, First nations FSC first, commercial 2nd and then recreational fishery was set by the court almost 40 years ago.

[roeman]

The priority you quote, First nations FSC first, commercial 2nd and then recreational fishery was set by the court almost 40 years ago.

What a load of crap.  Quit selling their catch on the side of the road.  Quit selling it to guides so they can take clients sturgeon fishing.  Decisions from the past get changed all the time..  Weed is legal now.  And now FN sell it on their land like its a double double from Tim Hortons..   Last week some FN woke up and thought lets close Joffree Park.  And boom... Its closed for food gathering...  Never seen anything in the bush make people fat before... How long before Morris Valley Road gets closed?  Or both sides of the Chehalis River.  Its coming.... Keep bending over and they will keep giving it to us..... Want your land back... Grab a gun and take it back.....I feel better now.....

[pwn50m3 f15h3r]

What a load of crap.  Quit selling their catch on the side of the road.  Quit selling it to guides so they can take clients sturgeon fishing.  Decisions from the past get changed all the time..  Weed is legal now.  And now FN sell it on their land like its a double double from Tim Hortons..   Last week some FN woke up and thought lets close Joffree Park.  And boom... Its closed for food gathering...  Never seen anything in the bush make people fat before... How long before Morris Valley Road gets closed?  Or both sides of the Chehalis River.  Its coming.... Keep bending over and they will keep giving it to us..... Want your land back... Grab a gun and take it back.....I feel better now.....

Bruh.

[RalphH]

Roeman, there has been a black market for salmon since the Federal Government took away the FN right to sell their catch over 100 years ago. It's still not legal unless its a valid opening under a communal opening with an allowance for sales. Laws about weed or any other drug have nothing to do with the SCOC. Those laws were made by Governments, much like Prohibition which was later revoked.

[Phronesis]

most of these fish are headed to the Shushwap. Harrison/Chilliwack chinook will start in a few weeks.

Thanks Ralph !

[RalphH]

As I’ve said before, kudos to Ralph as he is one of the very few who advocate for fish

Thanks Dave! I feel both humbled and honored by your recognition.

My feelings on such topics are without the fish, what do we have? so they come first. Sector politics are down the list for me.

[dennisK]

My feelings on such topics are without the fish, what do we have?

Just the chips.

[wildmanyeah]

My feelings on such topics are without the fish, what do we have? so they come first. Sector politics are down the list for me.

If we can't fish for them does it matter how many return?

Like the only reason people that care about how many IFS return is because they want enough to return to fish for them. Outside of the fishing community no on cares not even big ENGOs don't.

 First Nations also don't care about IFS, look at the comments in the IFMP from first nations about IFS, they just get in the way of chum fisheries. Yet when it comes to sockeye, they are the stuarts of the land and care deeply about fish.

We also are not talking about the extinction of piks there is a forecast of 13 million, over 800k are already estimated to have passed the mission bridge.  No one is asking to fish for the last fish. If nothing else at least open pinks to selective fishing below mission bridge.

Hopefully there is still room to operation sound fisheries management decisions, while protectings stocks while also allowing some social,cultrial and economic catch.

Im not asking to catch the last pink

[Darko]

If we can't fish for them does it matter how many return?

Like the only reason people that care about how many IFS return is because they want enough to return to fish for them. Outside of the fishing community no on cares not even big ENGOs don't.

very true, if we don't get a chance to use the resource we will care less and less

I for one now can only dream about catching a Thompson Steelhead. If I want a semi similar steelhead experience I need to travel to Skeena or Dean River or something similar distance, trips that can cost 3k+ $ where a drive to the Thompson from Vancouver and back can cost only 80$+ depending on your car.

Yes I think they are cool fish and should exist, I also care to actually get a chance to see one and catch one.

The fact that anglers are willing to spend so much $ even just to catch and release special fish like those seems to be way more economically beneficial than many commercial fisheries in my eyes.

[RalphH]

If we can't fish for them does it matter how many return?

Yes it does. It's the most important part.

[Rodney]

Yes it does. It's the most important part.

Yep it sure does.

I think it comes down to what a person is advocating, the fish, or the fishery.