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Author Topic: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"  (Read 2867 times)

stsfisher

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2019, 10:20:15 AM »

??? Media is sure getting lazy in what gets circulated these days.
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Rodney

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2019, 10:39:23 AM »

Lazy? This is an OP letter from an aquatic biologist.

Natural predators of salmonids are not the problem, eliminating them all will not improve salmon stocks. These predator-prey relationships have evolved for hundreds of thousands of years, the balance is always shifting but humans have pushed that balance too much for it to bounce back. Northern pikeminnow is just a conveniently labelled culprit while the real issues are ignored.

Predators like Northern pikeminnow are natural selectors. They prey on salmonid eggs and juveniles, which is in fact not a bad thing. This selection over time strengthens the salmon populations. The problem is when you start building dams like the Columbia River where habitats become more desirable for northern pikeminnows so they thrive in that environment, their predatory efficiency increases and so does the population. The problem is when you harvest too many salmon and the population can no longer withstand the natural predation.

Some population control of NPM may help in the short run, but it is not a long term solution for saving salmonids.

stsfisher

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2019, 12:44:03 PM »

Lazy? This is an OP letter from an aquatic biologist.

Natural predators of salmonids are not the problem, eliminating them all will not improve salmon stocks. These predator-prey relationships have evolved for hundreds of thousands of years, the balance is always shifting but humans have pushed that balance too much for it to bounce back. Northern pikeminnow is just a conveniently labelled culprit while the real issues are ignored.

Predators like Northern pikeminnow are natural selectors. They prey on salmonid eggs and juveniles, which is in fact not a bad thing. This selection over time strengthens the salmon populations. The problem is when you start building dams like the Columbia River where habitats become more desirable for northern pikeminnows so they thrive in that environment, their predatory efficiency increases and so does the population. The problem is when you harvest too many salmon and the population can no longer withstand the natural predation.

Some population control of NPM may help in the short run, but it is not a long term solution for saving salmonids.


Yes Lazy.  This outlet likes to post half stories of important issues, just like this OP posting regarding the protest fishery. There is much more to this story that could have and should have been added by this news outlet. This story leaves non fishers reading a story thinking that these recreation fishers are just wining. I have no doubt the OP who is very well know in the angling community has his facts straight but it would have been nice to read more about the facts surrounding the demonstration fishery as stated in the title, considering the demonstration fishery was organized for a much different purpose.

Thank you Rod for offering much more insight into the story than the OP and news outlet........
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stsfisher

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2019, 12:56:09 PM »

Yes Lazy.  This outlet likes to post half stories of important issues, just like this OP posting regarding the protest fishery. There is much more to this story that could have and should have been added by this news outlet. This story leaves non fishers reading a story thinking that these recreation fishers are just wining. I have no doubt the OP who is very well know in the angling community has his facts straight but it would have been nice to read more about the facts surrounding the demonstration fishery as stated in the title, considering the demonstration fishery was organized for a much different purpose.

Thank you Rod for offering much more insight into the story than the OP and news outlet........

I can only assume the biologist was responding to the one line which was taken from this article written by The Progress reporter. "Coarse fish feed on salmon eggs so he said targeting them will take some out of the system." found here:
https://www.theprogress.com/news/demonstration-fishery-puts-lack-of-fishing-opportunities-on-the-fraser-in-focus/

This line was not even used as a quote from Dean but something the reporter said he said, while quoting Dean on other important context. So again I feel this OP letter should be looked at as a form of lazy reporting or lazy filling of space in their paper.
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Rodney

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2019, 01:07:53 PM »

I doubt the author of the OP is concerned or interested about recreational fishing issues on the Fraser River, why should he? His concerns are on the native fish species, which is his field.

I agree that the intent of these demonstration fisheries etc get lost in the media very easily and a different picture on recreational fishermen could be painted, this is why these events and their messaging need to be thought through very carefully before executing them.

chris gadsden

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 02:21:19 PM »

Interesting that in the USA they pay a bounty of PM' shttp://www.pikeminnow.org/background/save-a-salmon-and-make-money-doing-it  Also FOC for years has netted and angled for PM in Cultus Lake and the Master and a group now take 2500 a year from the lake. And then there is the annual Cultus lake PM derby that has gone on for years. https://youtu.be/yqgWFgO70Dc

skaha

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 03:34:14 PM »

--An issue is the generalization...each system is different. In many lakes, NPM is in balance and not likely to become the dominant critter in the area. In some areas perhaps it is inevitable that NPM will have a dominant influence. Bounty areas and culls may be appropriate in some areas where the management objective is to enhance the viability of other species. For whatever reason, some seem to vilify certain species. Scientist, please get off your high horse and explain in more detail the reasons for your management decisions so that we can understand the intent and perhaps even assist. Or at the least have an informed discussion.
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wildmanyeah

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 03:36:17 PM »


I agree that the intent of these demonstration fisheries etc get lost in the media very easily and a different picture on recreational fishermen could be painted, this is why these events and their messaging need to be thought through very carefully before executing them.

I believe the issue is the group that organized this event is mandated to be a conservation group and not a recreational advocacy group. Yet they were trying to launch an advocacy/protest event while portraying themselves as a conservation group...  So the message ended up being very muddled

straight from their press release

Coarse Fish Demonstration September 2nd 2019

The press release

"The Fraser Valley Salmon Society supports the closure for salmon fishing when based on good science and in no way plans to pursue that fishery until regulations permit. The Society’s mandate is conservation, opportunity and habit protection."

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Wiseguy

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2019, 06:08:00 AM »

Interesting that in the USA they pay a bounty of PM' shttp://www.pikeminnow.org/background/save-a-salmon-and-make-money-doing-it  Also FOC for years has netted and angled for PM in Cultus Lake and the Master and a group now take 2500 a year from the lake. And then there is the annual Cultus lake PM derby that has gone on for years. https://youtu.be/yqgWFgO70Dc
They should start this in Chilliwack Lake. I have seen hundreds of them resting on the bottom at the far end where the creek comes in with no trout in sight. I used to be able to spot trout in this area now all I see is pike minnow and many of them are large in size.
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Dave

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2019, 06:27:51 AM »

They should start this in Chilliwack Lake. I have seen hundreds of them resting on the bottom at the far end where the creek comes in with no trout in sight. I used to be able to spot trout in this area now all I see is pike minnow and many of them are large in size.

Are you sure they are pikeminnows? I have seen many Largescale suckers in that same area.
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RalphH

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Re: "Fishing demonstration was based on false science"
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2019, 07:56:24 AM »

Interesting that in the USA they pay a bounty of PM' shttp://www.pikeminnow.org/background/save-a-salmon-and-make-money-doing-it  Also FOC for years has netted and angled for PM in Cultus Lake and the Master and a group now take 2500 a year from the lake. And then there is the annual Cultus lake PM derby that has gone on for years. https://youtu.be/yqgWFgO70Dc

the rational for the Columbia River PM bounty is that dams and reservoirs on the Columbia has shifted local conditions to heavily favor Pike Minnow and populations have exploded. Again it is a localized situation. I have never seen evidence the bounty system does anything to reduce predation on salmon. Does it work or is it a knee jerk reaction kept going because some anglers make a few $s from it?
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