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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1630949 times)

chris gadsden

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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2056 on: January 09, 2016, 03:57:09 PM »

As shuswapsteve mentioned, one of the big questions regarding this new ISAv report is the origin of the store bought Atlantic salmon.  For example, Costco imports all it’s Atlantics from Chile and Norway; most BC Atlantics are exported to the US, so for any of these samples to have relevance to BC we must know the source … and interestingly, and probably the most damning as far as credibility goes, the report does not mention that.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2057 on: January 09, 2016, 07:49:07 PM »

chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2058 on: January 09, 2016, 07:53:00 PM »

Some more reading. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675643/

If you donot want to read it all here is the conclusion.

Salmon lice are natural parasites on salmonids in the sea water with a circumpolar distribution in the northern Hemisphere. The populations in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans are genetically distinct. Intensive salmon farming has improved the conditions for the growth and transmission of the parasites compared with natural conditions. Gene flow among populations appears high and most likely results from association with highly migratory hosts. There are distinct differences in the susceptibility to salmon lice infections among salmonid fish species.

Salmon recreational fishery, commercial fishery (sea fishery) and aquaculture have different stakeholders, practices, traditions and management objectives and strategies (Liu, Olaussen & Skonhoft 2011). Sea lice have clearly impacted wild salmon and trout fisheries without compensating for the imposed negative external costs. The quantitative estimates of these impacts show large variations. Further research is needed in order to understand the mechanisms and processes. The density of farms in an area has a clear effect on the levels of sea lice at individual farms within that area.

Since the start of large-scale salmon farming in the 1970s, control of salmon lice has been based mainly on chemotherapy. This has been effective and simple to use, but also creates unwanted environmental effects, occupational hazards and drug resistance problems. During the last few years, there has been a trend towards a more integrated management approach with synchronized treatments, biological control (cleaner fish), immunological interference (immunostimulants), mechanical de-lousing systems, selective breeding for louse-resistant salmon and regulatory approaches (zones with synchronized production and fallowing).

Sea lice resistance to chemotherapeutants is a serious concern. In Norway, Scotland, Ireland and eastern Canada, the number of salmon in farms greatly exceeds the number of wild salmon. Thus, the main sources of re-infestation are the farms themselves, where regular parasite treatments place constant selection pressure on resistance development. New chemicals may only be valuable for a limited period of time. Management practices with a variety of methods will be necessary to keep the sea lice under control in salmon farms.

Two published studies tested vaccine candidate antigens against salmon lice, which resulted in a reduced infection rate (Grayson et al. 1995; Carpio et al. 2011). For parasites like salmon lice that do not proliferate on or in the host, a vaccine will primarily reduce infection pressure. Salmon lice create problems for both the salmon farming industry and, under certain conditions, wild salmonids. A vaccine will probably not be adequate as a stand-alone treatment, but it would be a valuable element in the hierarchy of salmon lice prevention methods.

For the foreseeable future, salmon lice will continue to be a serious problem for the salmon farming industry and a threat to their environmental credibility. Salmon farmers invest in expensive sea lice monitoring and treatment programmes. The key to a sustainable production is to integrate several management practices. This will require a substantial increase in research in areas such as new pharmaceuticals, mechanical lice removal, vaccines and immunostimulants, selective breeding for increased resistance, effective aquaculture production and use of cleaner fish, and the development of coastal hydrographic models to estimate transmission dynamics and to support farm siting decisions and coordinated management.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 07:56:29 PM by chris gadsden »
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shuswapsteve

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2059 on: January 09, 2016, 08:58:01 PM »

This story is spreading like FF lice and other diseases. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2016/01/most-feared-salmon-virus-has-arrived-in-bc-waters/#.VpHT1k-VHAn

Yeah, that's how fear mongering works, Chris.  Some folks take some information and then slowly add to it, maybe even tweak it a bit, so that after awhile it's a full blown epidemic that is devastating wild salmon and needs to be contained.  Did you ever wonder why the authors of the study did not get any samples from US waters and aquaculture operations?  Do you wonder why Molly Kibenge's 2004 ISAv tests on Cultus Lake Sockeye were unpublished and why the authors do not say why?  Somehow Molly Kibenge's unpublished results during the Cohen Inquiry are mentioned in the study and the press release, but Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunder's unpublished results during the Cohen Inquiry in regards to her retro-analysis work are absent.  Miller's name is not mentioned anywhere in the study.  Rock Bottom reporting at it's finest.

Kind of strange how the latest study on PRV didn't get any coverage.  It was not even mentioned on Alexandra Morton's blog or Facebook page?  I guess if the desired result is not met then it isn't worth reporting.  Strange how you get a hold of all these other studies and post them here, but this one about the second most controversial virus in BC (well...according to fish farm critics anyway) seemed to fall through the cracks.
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2060 on: January 09, 2016, 09:00:43 PM »

Some more reading. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3675643/

If you donot want to read it all here is the conclusion.

Salmon lice are natural parasites on salmonids in the sea water with a circumpolar distribution in the northern Hemisphere. The populations in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans are genetically distinct. Intensive salmon farming has improved the conditions for the growth and transmission of the parasites compared with natural conditions. Gene flow among populations appears high and most likely results from association with highly migratory hosts. There are distinct differences in the susceptibility to salmon lice infections among salmonid fish species.

Salmon recreational fishery, commercial fishery (sea fishery) and aquaculture have different stakeholders, practices, traditions and management objectives and strategies (Liu, Olaussen & Skonhoft 2011). Sea lice have clearly impacted wild salmon and trout fisheries without compensating for the imposed negative external costs. The quantitative estimates of these impacts show large variations. Further research is needed in order to understand the mechanisms and processes. The density of farms in an area has a clear effect on the levels of sea lice at individual farms within that area.

Since the start of large-scale salmon farming in the 1970s, control of salmon lice has been based mainly on chemotherapy. This has been effective and simple to use, but also creates unwanted environmental effects, occupational hazards and drug resistance problems. During the last few years, there has been a trend towards a more integrated management approach with synchronized treatments, biological control (cleaner fish), immunological interference (immunostimulants), mechanical de-lousing systems, selective breeding for louse-resistant salmon and regulatory approaches (zones with synchronized production and fallowing).

Sea lice resistance to chemotherapeutants is a serious concern. In Norway, Scotland, Ireland and eastern Canada, the number of salmon in farms greatly exceeds the number of wild salmon. Thus, the main sources of re-infestation are the farms themselves, where regular parasite treatments place constant selection pressure on resistance development. New chemicals may only be valuable for a limited period of time. Management practices with a variety of methods will be necessary to keep the sea lice under control in salmon farms.

Two published studies tested vaccine candidate antigens against salmon lice, which resulted in a reduced infection rate (Grayson et al. 1995; Carpio et al. 2011). For parasites like salmon lice that do not proliferate on or in the host, a vaccine will primarily reduce infection pressure. Salmon lice create problems for both the salmon farming industry and, under certain conditions, wild salmonids. A vaccine will probably not be adequate as a stand-alone treatment, but it would be a valuable element in the hierarchy of salmon lice prevention methods.

For the foreseeable future, salmon lice will continue to be a serious problem for the salmon farming industry and a threat to their environmental credibility. Salmon farmers invest in expensive sea lice monitoring and treatment programmes. The key to a sustainable production is to integrate several management practices. This will require a substantial increase in research in areas such as new pharmaceuticals, mechanical lice removal, vaccines and immunostimulants, selective breeding for increased resistance, effective aquaculture production and use of cleaner fish, and the development of coastal hydrographic models to estimate transmission dynamics and to support farm siting decisions and coordinated management.
Good post.  Any paper authored or co authored by Simon Jones is worth reading.
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clarkii

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2061 on: January 10, 2016, 12:43:13 AM »

That ISA paper was by far the most messed up formatting I have read...I understand each journal has their own requirements, but come on.  General order is Abstract-intro-methods-results-discussion-conclusion, that thing was all over the map!

Not being a geneticists I am unable to comment on the rest of it, but I am wondering about the journal's credibility itself.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2062 on: January 10, 2016, 08:34:56 AM »

More, this time from the Squamish Chief, the coverage continues. ;D ;D http://www.squamishchief.com/news/local-news/study-finds-virus-in-salmon-1.2147623

troutbreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2063 on: January 10, 2016, 08:45:42 AM »

http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/


It is hard to believe that this day would ever come, having watched the multi-billion dollar Marine Harvest, Cermaq and Grieg Seafood, simply push their way into all the pristine oceans on earth and soil them for so long, to finally say, and they will no doubt not agree, but that the world is on the tipping point, even though it will take these companies a decade of death throws to die or change, that the beginning of the end for in-ocean fish farms has finally come.
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

aquapaloosa

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2064 on: January 10, 2016, 10:26:19 AM »

http://fishfarmnews.blogspot.ca/


Hmmmmm, fish farm news and science eh.  Oh its a blog by DC reid, has 16 members, and a messages that says "Followers - Please Use Your Real Names, Particularly Marine Harvest, Cermaq Mainstream, Grieg".
The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them. 
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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2065 on: January 10, 2016, 11:39:28 AM »

That ISA paper was by far the most messed up formatting I have read...I understand each journal has their own requirements, but come on.  General order is Abstract-intro-methods-results-discussion-conclusion, that thing was all over the map!

Not being a geneticists I am unable to comment on the rest of it, but I am wondering about the journal's credibility itself.
Good to read at least a few others have the ability to think for themselves and to question this report and how it was published.
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2066 on: January 10, 2016, 11:41:49 AM »

The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them.
Funny how the antis never mention PRV now isn't it, lol!  Mind you, most of them don't even know what we're talking about.
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troutbreath

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2067 on: January 10, 2016, 01:10:40 PM »

Hmmmmm, fish farm news and science eh.  Oh its a blog by DC reid, has 16 members, and a messages that says "Followers - Please Use Your Real Names, Particularly Marine Harvest, Cermaq Mainstream, Grieg".
The blog just falls short of asking for money and seems to have fallen short on the latest PRV info just like the rest of them.

Well look at some of the childish goofiness on pro fish farm sites.

http://salmonfarmscience.com/2013/01/07/sea-lice-study-adds-to-manufactured-body-of-evidence/
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2068 on: January 11, 2016, 04:38:45 PM »

Here is today's updated online Chilliwack Progress story on the reported ISAv found in Cultus Lake cutthroat trout. Kudos to the reporter, Jennifer Feinberg, for re writing this and not publishing in hard copy the original story last Friday.
 http://www.theprogress.com/news/364568161.html
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #2069 on: January 11, 2016, 04:52:34 PM »

Every day it seems another paper jumps on this latest news which of course is understandable.http://www.digitaljournal.com/life/food/world-s-most-feared-salmon-virus-found-in-canadian-waters/article/454287