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[shuswapsteve]

" but the actions of a certain activist caused a chain reaction that ended up with regulatory change being a necessity now."


that statement is so under the net pen buddy 

Sorry if the truth hurts so bad.  Have a sip of Kool-Aid.

[troutbreath]

Sorry, you can't use governments as the scape goat because when it comes down to it nobody wants to be told they can't fish and everyone (i.e. general public, stakeholders) likes to point fingers at everyone else except their own contribution to the situation.  Management plays a role, I won't deny that, but rarely is there a single cause in things like this.  Using common sense to defend opinions that are not based on facts does not make much sense, NB.

Again more stuff from under the netpen. You phsycic or something, or just making this stuff up. people are told about the fishing regs which include closures..... duh. The other stakeholders just use cash to bribe politicians to get their way. Management......well they like their paycheck you know just common sense.

Shoe thrown under the netpen again.

[shuswapsteve]

Again more stuff from under the netpen. You phsycic or something, or just making this stuff up. people are told about the fishing regs which include closures..... duh. The other stakeholders just use cash to bribe politicians to get their way. Management......well they like their paycheck you know just common sense.

Shoe thrown under the netpen again.

Seems like the only one using psychic ability right now is you.  Who in particular is taking bribes?  Who is just concerned with just the paycheck and not on management?  Lots of rhetoric and no substance.  I think you are on your way to having a role in a sequel to Salmon Confidential.  Jody Erickson needs a sampling buddy.

[Novabonker]

Sorry, you can't use governments as the scape goat because when it comes down to it nobody wants to be told they can't fish and everyone (i.e. general public, stakeholders) likes to point fingers at everyone else except their own contribution to the situation.  Management plays a role, I won't deny that, but rarely is there a single cause in things like this.  Using common sense to defend opinions that are not based on facts does not make much sense, NB.

Where are facts missing Steve? I simply related what idiotic policies from DFO had and how it devastated a fishery and the fallout from mismanagement had on families, mine being one of them - my family made most of it's income from fishing since arriving on the east coast over a hundred years before Canada became Canada.Nobody from my family is involved in fisheries now as it became apparent that the game was over. I saw the fallout first hand and I see the same lunacy behind the feedlots here.

Management plays a role, I won't deny that, - Exactly, but you don't want management to take any heat when the ,um, net pen poop hits the fan? Hilarious!

[Novabonker]

I shouldn't answer for troutbreath, but the "bribes" as I see them are the money delivered to political parties in the form of donations. Ever look at who gave money to the Liberal party? Then see if they benefited from the largesse. If you're that blind to reality......

[Fisherbob]

http://www.seaaroundus.org/TVRadio/2009/CBC_FishFecesReduceOceanCO2Levels.pdf

[shuswapsteve]

Where are facts missing Steve? I simply related what idiotic policies from DFO had and how it devastated a fishery and the fallout from mismanagement had on families, mine being one of them - my family made most of it's income from fishing since arriving on the east coast over a hundred years before Canada became Canada.Nobody from my family is involved in fisheries now as it became apparent that the game was over. I saw the fallout first hand and I see the same lunacy behind the feedlots here.

Management plays a role, I won't deny that, - Exactly, but you don't want management to take any heat when the ,um, net pen poop hits the fan? Hilarious!

Correction, NB, I never stated that I didn't want management to take any heat.  It comes with the territory.  I acknowledged those policies, but I also acknowledge the culture and society which we live in that always wants more (never less), but does little to take responsibility for actions they take.  I also acknowledge that there are individuals who do not take the time to know the complete picture.

Management involves advisory processes and consultation involving many different players.  It is not the easiest task to get agreement.  Stakeholders not only bicker with DFO but they bicker with each other - accusing the other of robbing the resource.  Don't take my word for it, go ask those involved in the advisory processes (on both sides of the table); talk to those involved with consulations with sporties and First Nations; and read some of the forum topics on the internet where sporties, commies, and First Nations all go at each other accusing each other of not doing their fair share to protect the resource.  Try being that person in between sometime. 

With regards to Fraser Sockeye, the management of the fishery is a complex set of tasks requiring the analysis of a lot of information coming in from different sources (test fisheries, creel, acoustic surveys and spawning ground surveys) that can constantly change from preseason to postseason. When you add in environmental conditions it can make it even more complex.  Decisions need to be made quickly and most times with conflicting information.  Each time a decision is made someone is undoubtedly going to complain.  Trust me, there are times where I shake my head at some resource management decisions; however, I understand somewhat what resource management deals with and how being on the hot seat requires not just technical skills but also diplomacy.  Definitely not a job I would desire.  They may not always be the right decisions, but I would like to see how some of you would behave under similar circumstances.  Situations where you are looked upon by many different groups to make not only the right decisions, but also timely decisions as well as being perceived as being fair. 

http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_05.pdf#zoom=100

[shuswapsteve]

I shouldn't answer for troutbreath, but the "bribes" as I see them are the money delivered to political parties in the form of donations. Ever look at who gave money to the Liberal party? Then see if they benefited from the largesse. If you're that blind to reality......

You're right, you shouldn't have answered for him.

[Dave]

Each time a decision is made someone is undoubtedly going to complain.  Trust me, there are times where I shake my head at some resource management decisions; however, I understand somewhat what resource management deals with and how being on the hot seat requires not just technical skills but also diplomacy.  Definitely not a job I would desire.  They may not always be the right decisions, but I would like to see how some of you would behave under similar circumstances.  Situations where you are looked upon by many different groups to make not only the right decisions, but also timely decisions as well as being perceived as being fair. 

http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_05.pdf#zoom=100

Well, you might not want it but I believe you would make an excellent resource manager for your area. For sure, the future of what's left of this resource needs proper management by competent people, and you fit the JD

[chris gadsden]

One of the problems as I see it is a lot of decisions are being made in the political theatre, I saw that first hand with the Fraser River Gravel file over the years. Some lost their jobs because they were not saying what those in power at the time wanted to hear. I am sure others can add further examples to these.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=32646.0

 http://www.watershed-watch.org/2013/04/globe-and-mail-ottawa-withholding-reports-on-bc-wild-salmon/

http://www.timescolonist.com/sports/fish-farms-allied-with-government-activists-say-1.146182

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/05/03/when-science-goes-silent/


Also, how many recommendations from the Cohen inquiry not to mention numerous other Inquiries over the last number of years have actually been acted on?

Gets pretty depressing that we are all faced with such obstacles.

 

[Dave]

Also, how many recommendations from the Cohen inquiry not to mention numerous other Inquiries over the last number of years have actually been acted on?
Gets pretty depressing that we are all faced with such obstacles.

Well Chris, at least two recommendations from the $26 M Cohen farce (think what that money could have done for habitat restoration) have been acted on ... one, there is to be no expansion of salmon farms in the Discovery Island area, said BC’s newly elected Premier, and two, Federal and private funding has been allocated to research into the relationship between wild and farmed salmon disease issues, this to be addressed by Dr's. Riddell, of the Pacific Salmon Foundation, and Miller, Science Branch, DFO.
But in the mean time all user groups are fighting over, and killing what's left because humans in general are greedy bastards..

[chris gadsden]

Well Chris, at least two recommendations from the $26 M Cohen farce (think what that money could have done for habitat restoration) have been acted on ... one, there is to be no expansion of salmon farms in the Discovery Island area, said BC’s newly elected Premier, and two, Federal and private funding has been allocated to research into the relationship between wild and farmed salmon disease issues, this to be addressed by Dr's. Riddell, of the Pacific Salmon Foundation, and Miller, Science Branch, DFO.
But in the mean time all user groups are fighting over, and killing what's left because humans in general are greedy bastards..

Well I hope something good comes of this, another study to add to many in the past. As well it does not take forever to be released to us and there is no government interference that has become all too common place these days.

[rjs]

$26 M Cohen farce

I don't think that was a farce !

I think dfo and Harper are a farce !!!

Time to dismantle DFO and there Ottawa jobs ! here here

[shuswapsteve]

Chris, I don't deny that our King back east is a bit of dip and that science is seen more of an inconvenience most times.  One example is the not criminally responsible legislation changes proposed by the Harper Government which are not based on science from experts, but instead based on fear and ignorance towards mental illness (I have a family member that suffers from a mental illness).  However, the media reports you posted only show part of the big picture - some are actually misleading.  Not for what they say but what they do not say.  That's why I take media reports with a grain of salt most times.

For instance, in the Times Colonist article you posted the reporter failed to mention the fact that veterinarians in BC are bound to confidentially (provincial legislation) with regards to data they collect - not just fish veterinaries but also with other animal veterinarians.  Even medical doctors are bound to confidentially.  This isn't some new thing that came down the pipe to stifle opponents to net-pen aquaculture.  Mr. Coste may find it alarming but it is the law and people like Dr. Marty did the right thing under the circumstance.  That's why people need to dig a little deeper than a news article because if people rely solely on that for information than they are short changing themselves.  That's why some of us are not instantly alarmed by the news articles posted regarding aquaculture, Chris.  You should be aware that aquaculture information is much more accessible now under the feds.  Did the reporter mention that?  I admit some of it is slow going, but critics cannot say that no one is listening.

[shuswapsteve]

I don't think that was a farce !

I think dfo and Harper are a farce !!!

Time to dismantle DFO and there Ottawa jobs ! here here

Well, that's great you didn't think Cohen was a farce.  You might also be pleased to know that along with criticism labelled against the department and recommendation made, Justice Cohen also had praise for the job people in the department are doing under challenging circumstances.