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[Gooey]

Well, I have to say I was disappointed in 2 things: a lack of focus on sports sector by DFO representatives (altho we had some great  conversations all the same) it was definitely a comercial sector focus and a lack of support from the sport fishing community.  Winter Steel and I were the only attendees I could see from the sport community - no sports fishing clubs/associations/groups etc ( altho they may be attending the workshops tomorrow).

Its late and I have a ton of things I would like to convey but I think winter steel and I will put bits and pieces together over several posts.

For those of you concerned about possible ground fish closures, I saw the maps and proposed conservation areas and they were not large sweeping areas.  Lots of small pin pointed areas in fact...as an examaple someone here said if you like fishing for flounder up indian arm, the ground fish closure will ruin that.  The proposed area of indian arm that would be could is actually quite small in respect to the entire arm...either way maps are available.

My main interest in attending tonight was to see how I could impact reform in the sport fishery.  WS and I spoke with a gentleman from DFO for roughly 2 hours and at the end of that I had what I needed.  This DFO representative will be passing me contact details for the sports fishing board/panel that is responsible for developing the regs that DFO then implements.  Apparrently they seek input and direction from the sport sector and dont get a lot (see fish freak, we can make a difference  ).  There was also talk that there may be more events like this focussing on the sport industry specifically.

There was also a man there who was a wild salmon broker.  He was basically saying that DFO is responsible for marketing both wild and farmed salmon, DFO is putting more marketing resources into farmed salmon, and wild salmon are in jeopordy due to the disparidy.  I know several people here are lobbying and signing petions against fish farms due to their impact on wild salmon (sea lice primarily).  Your causes seem very similairly aligned so if he has any good info I shall pass that along to the group.

The DFO representative shocked me with his position on "food fish".  I said thats a grey area, ie lots of fish get harvested  as food that end up being sold.  Based on DFO management of the fraser this year I really thought this food fishery thing was just a joke.  His postion was much more cut and dry...food fish can not be sold PERIOD...and if it is thats and enforcement issue.  He couldnt speak on the FN using unassigned drop off points for their catch etc but he did agree enforcement needs to be great.  The williams report highlighted that and yet no increase was made to the budget for enforcement.  In fact this year enforcement was up on the fraser during sockeye season but they took the resources from other areas...I wonder what happened when no one was watching the flock in other areas of the province.

Any how, I am bagged, sorry for any typo's etc.  I will add more tomorrow as will Winter Steel i assume.

 

[Rodney]

Thanks Gooey. The amount of information you get from these meetings can be very overwhelming. Hmm, you should consider attending the sportfishing advisory committee meetings, are you affiliated to any group? The sportfishing community does provide tremendous amount of input to DFO. During the summer months, conference calls take place on the weekly basis. The local SFAC has two meetings per year, pre-season and post-season, and further inputs are communicated by email. There is a need to create a better communicating bridge between DFO and the angling public though, as there are too many misinformed individuals out there regarding policies, regulations, stock information, etc. This year We've tried to use this website as that bridge and it's working somewhat (ie. Cultus Lake clipped sockeye info, bait ban, SARA, Cap weirs, Fraser sockeye, etc). Whenever different DFO sectors send information to my email, you'll either find it here or our news section.

Hey did you bring up flossing? Did the DFO rep become puzzled and tell you he had done that this morning?

Thanks for attending again guys.

[chris gadsden]

Good report Gooey and thanks for attending also Winter Steel. Glad others are taking an interest and getting involved as us old guys are getting worn out some.

If the FOC chap does not know about all the fish that are and have been sold illegally for years he has a lot to learn. He must be new to the job or maybe he is just from back East.

[Gooey]

The DFO rep, I have his card at home, his name was Ron.  He has been with DFO for 15 years if I remember correctly.  He was extremely knowledgable on the issues at hand.  In terms of food fish being sold off the fraser, he's an area director on the island so he may not have seen those things first hand.

Rod, your post triggered 3 thing:

One of the first things Ron asked WS and I is what group do we belong to.  WS is a part of the steelhead society I believe and I have no affiliation (for now).  The various groups we can join do have better representation then most individuals but if an individual wants to be heard, apparently there are routes.

We did talk about flossiing, snagging, a degridation of fishing ettiquette, etc  Ron didnt seem surprised by what WS and I conveyed but the other gentleman named Sandy did.  We talked of the viral spread of flossing the fraser to other water sheds.  We spoke about area closures (like KWB) to help minimize problem areas.  I am eager to find out the contact details for the Sports Fishery advisory panel Ron mentioned and while we did have a good discussion on the points above, he personally isnt in a position to effect change.

We talked about the proposed province wide bait ban and how that if anything would only dramatically WORSEN the flossing/snaggin epidemic.  We all know how you can keep up to 4 steelhead smolts on the vedder.  I wasquick  to pointed out that all these rainbows are residualised steelhead smolts that decide to remain in the river instead of going to sea.  DFO has a limit of 4 fish because these little buggers devour our salmon smolts as the hatch and migrate out.  This year we saw many grand parents and families with young kids on the banks of the vedder fishing these fish, with a bait ban, I anticipate these groups wont go out and the smolts will be left in the system.

In that breath, DFO is very concerned that the younger generation is not getting involved in fishing (either as a sport or occupation).   The bait ban would really hurt younger fishers who fall in love with the sport by sitting on a river or lake with a bobber and worm.  Take note all you youngster o the board...if you are passionate about our resource, there could be some significant opportunities for you in the future with DFO so get involved!

Thats it for now but I know there are some things I am still missing.

[Old Black Dog]

Number one, DFO is aware of flossing and has been for years.
They even did a survey at the Abbotsford show on this. The results were to leave it alone!

As to the bait ban that is PROVINCIAL, not federal. So you were talking to the wrong person.


You are right that most of DFO have no ideal about Sportsfishing and care less.
There concern is commercial and F/N.

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Apparently they seek input and direction from the sport sector and don't get a lot (see fish freak, we can make a difference   ).  There was also talk that there may be more events like this focussing on the sport industry specifically
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The SFAB has been giving advise for over 40 years. There is a difference between giving and receiving.

They get lots of advise, however they IGNORE it and do what they want.

As to the amount given it is huge and they ignore it, so don't always assume they are telling you the truth.

Question, what did you think about the changes to the Fisheries act?

[Gooey]

what changes to the fisheries act do you refer to.  My mian interest was sport fishing reform so thats the topic I stcuk to.

i am not sure who would be responsible for implementing a province wide bait ban...it could be DFO or provincial govenments.  From what I understand DFO is responsible for managing pacific salmon stocks...they release that little booklet each year the we pick up in additon to the provincial regs in the larger book.  The salmon supplement (a federal document) could easily contain sweeping bait bans.

What make you think its provincial?  I really can not say for sure either way, but if it were provincial, then why wouldn't  DFO say something last night?  As well, the body that they are putting me intouch with who designs the regs, who knows who they report to!   All I know for sure is I have been told there is an avenue for my voice to be heard and that does make me feel better in many ways.

[Old Black Dog]

I am not sure who would be responsible for implementing a province wide bait ban...
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The Province is responsible. DFO delegated freshwater to them!
It is in the Provincial regulation book and there will be meetings held throughout the province on this!

[chris gadsden]

A few of you may have missed this but three of us met with the new Minister of the Environment Barry Penner a few months ago re this bait ban and gave our reasons why the regulations should remain as it currently is. That is, putting bait bans on a stream by stream bases as needed which most would agree works well.

We also presented the petition of a few hundred to Barry that we had gathered from other anglers that opposed this proposal.


We also talked at the meeting with Al Martin from the department and we were told alot of opposition had been coming in from several fishing groups and individuails.

We left the meeting believing that no changes would be taking place but its not a bad idea to keep discussing this and writing letters to your MLA's etc.

As a personal note and I donot want to start the flossing debait (debate) but taking the bait away will just promote more of what is now practiced, it is turning into a epidemic as anyone that is fishing on the Vedder River will see.

It makes me very sad now to see what is happening on our beloved Vedder and I have lost a lot of interest now to go out there, even though I know I can find places to get away from it all.The scary part in my mind there is no real solution to curtail it.

[chris gadsden]

A very important and very well written report on this and only 101 reads.

[Sam Salmon]

I would have gone last night but my life got in the way.
Thanks for the info-a few pointers for newbies reading this.
DFO calls us Recreational Anglers for a reason-that's what we are.
If we take less than 5% of the catch (an oft used figure that may or may not be accurate) why should we expect more than 5% of the attention from DFO?
Beating the an old horse doesn't work-Sports Anglers need to come up with fresh and innovative ways of attracting attention/funding/developing political weight.
In this regard a site like this is in it's infancy.

Am I the only one who feels that the Chilliwack/Vedder system is a lost cause?

[winter steel]

Sam Salmon I absloutely agree with you in the sense that we need to be looking at new approaches to improving the sport fishery and ensuring our voices are heard and even perhaps some of our interests met. I had posted on another thread about a few ideas and a bit of ranting after a disappointing scenary on the Vedder and was a little disappointed in the responses. I was not necessarily looking for agreement, but just hoping that others cared enough to provide alternatives and other solutions to the problem. I am a relatively young fisherman (in comparison to some) who is looking to improve the angling exeperience.
    Chris, given some of your past posts I would assume that your rod and feet have walked a few river miles . My godfather use to talk about a time when runs were shared in terms of anglers working it from top to bottom in order to give every fishermen a shot at catching a fish and the whole experience was more social. I know those days are gone, but I for one would love to see them come back.
   Sam Salmon, what was very interesting about talking with Rod is the fact that certain species are more or less designated for sport/recreational fishing because of the value added importance of anglers and their purchasing of licenses, gear, gas, trips and so on. For example, in terms of the commercial market it basically goes sockeye, chum (for the resteraunts belive it or not and canning) chinook (however farmed chinook are starting to dominate) pinks and coho. The commercial fleet needs volume and simply put there are a heck of a lot of sockeye and chum out there in comparison to other species. The DFO realizes the importance in ensuring that our 5% of the total catch is met in most cases, but conservation measures are always met first, then aboriginal food, sport, commercial. The real big issue is many people have a problem with FN selling their food fish for profit. Which Rod pointed out is illegal. What DFO is trying to iimplement is include FN in the commercial fleet by buying licenses and then distributing them to FN groups so as not to increase the fleet, but at the same time inviting another group in as beneficiaries instead of barriers. The logic behind this being that FN now has an economic interest in making the fishing industry work for all those involved and would be subject to the same rules and regulations as the commercial fleet since t hey are part of it.
     We also hinted that even just more visual signs on popular runs and rivers could make the general public more aware of river restrictions and etiquette in general and perhaps could allow some self management. Yeah, I know the regulations are available, but I can't remember how many times I've gone to Berry's or Angler's West and they are not ready or they're all out or I simply forget to pick one up. Not to mention that some people struggle with the language. I don't think the Vedder or any river is ever a lost cause, it just may take more work by more people. I for one am willing to try as I believe that fishing is a great way to spend a day and I tell the kids I teach constantly about it. No, I'm not on strike-private school teacher. Tight lines. 

[chris gadsden]

Good post WS and I am glad I brought it back up as I was very disappoined that more people had not responded to it.

The problems now run very deep on a lot of our rivers and I have never been one to give up on issues that I have been involved with for many more years than I hate to admit.

However I also hate to admit it but we have or are very near the point of no return on what angling should be all about. You just go out on the rivers now and there is way too much abuse of the fishery, the fish and our environment. This is not just directed at the rec anglers but the other sectors as well. It seems to be the goal of many to get a fish by any means they can with no thought of giving the fish a sporting chance.

For example I stopped at Lickman Road to check the water conditions today and there they were, setting the hook at the end of every drift. Within a few minutes one had a fish on that I could tell from the start the hapless fish was foul hooked and it was not long into the fight that the fish is gone. This happens a lot when a fish is hooked in parts of the body other than inside the mouth. They have to fight the fish so long and use such heavy line the hook finally works it way free.

As I leave disgusted the jigging starts again. I could and maybe should have said something but there is so much of this going on people it really does not seem worth it as there is too many of them out there.

I could write more about this than most would want to read anyway so I will not. Most of the members of this forum know the problems out on the river as they are debated on this and many fishing forums with no real solutions given that will work.

I am not trying to put myself on a pedestal but telling it as it is, we can not hide from the raw truth out there, at least I cannot. I am close to admitting there is no solution in sight as there is too much educating to do and too many that do not want to be educated.

[Gooey]

Thanks for the support Chris, I felt so disappointed when this topic recieved 3 replies yesterday (yours,rodneys, and OBD) and by my bed time (9:30) it was almost off the first page     I really thought something positve happened and it went by virtually unnoticed.

Do people here really care more about their newbie status, roe recipes, ect, ect, ect?   

WS and I sat with 2 long time DFO representatives for almost 2 hours talking about the industry our sport, issues, possible improvements, etc no one has any questions or comments?

On another thread, I noted its time for people to get off the fence.  This is a prime example.  I started this thread by sharing my disappointment in focus on the Sport Sector by DFO that night and the equally unimpressive turn out by Sport Fishers.

If we all don't start taking a little more ownership of our beloved sport, then the problems will only get worse.

Another thing that came out of that nights conversations is that there are 400,000 recreational liscence holders in BC!  thats an impressive number.  I can't help but think that even if a fraction of us mobilize for a cause we can affect some real change.

BUT it has to start with each one of us get up off or butts to take a stand, to try to and make sports fishing better.

[dennyman]

Gooey: I think you are on to something about fishermen getting off their butts if things are to get better with regards to rivers like the Vedder. For whatever reason, it seems people just don't want to get involved to improve things, but instead would rather leave it to someone else to fix the problem.  And in this case they choose to leave it to the government to look after things. I for one do not think this is a wise decision because if they were doing such a good job then we would not have to be talking about illegal fishing practices, etc. etc.  Maybe what is needed is a group of sports fishermen to get together to voice their concerns to government and to do it in a cohesive group. It will not be easy, but if people really care about what happens to sports fishing in the future then they better take the time to try and do something now.

[Nostro]

Excellent post Gooey. What comes out loud and clear from your report is again the very little care and support we rec-anglers seem to devote to our passion. We are all screeming and demanding attention and justice during the sockeye season, and when it's over.......Well, we just don't appear to care.
I have ranted about this in a recent post (Sept. 27) that in spite of our numbers (400k+) and the revenues rec-anglers generate in BC ($2+Billion in revenues and more than $900 million in GDP annually), and in spite of the fact that there are at least half a dozen organizations in the Lower Mainland, representing segments of our numbers, we do not have a unified voice when we go to meetings or even information sessions. Chris and Rodney have spoken of this before as well that FN representatives have voiced concern that we are fragmented, that we cannot come to the table and discuss one single issue with a cohesive voice. And, I agree with them. It must be frustrating to keep going to many different meetings and listen to the same issues from different organizations, but not being able to get a commitment to an issue because of fictionalized interests.
I think this board, thanks to Rodney and his commitment to this sport, is an excellent place to advise and educate anglers. Rodney's monitoring and insertions of information within posts is excellent. Gooey, I learned a lot from your steelhead post earlier this week. I ,too, ran to the regs and re-read them and discovered further clarity. In my re-read I discovered other interesting points which I will share on another topic.
I think it is clear that as an interested group in this sport we have to organize ourselves better. We have the numbers. We generate $'s for the province, and we only take 5% of the fish, clearly demonstarting love and care for the resource. Now, let's get the VOICE and thereby, the ATTENTION we deserve. Any ideas how to achieve these? Let's hear them.