Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robert_G]

I used to be up to speed on Cultus Lake water quality, and unless something drastic has happened to the lake in the last 5 years, I would have no qualms about eating anything but perhaps a 20 year old char.
Afaik, these bass in Cultus are made up of 3 year classes, so exposure to any possible contaminamts would be short lived.

True enough, but the trout don't stay in the shallows like Bass are known for which is kind of where the motor oil and fuel seems to go in Cultus.

[clarki]

You know, I would like to understand better how management decisions for AIS (Aquatic Invasive Species ) are made. If it was me, I would decree no limits on Cultus Lake bass and let the haters have at 'er. The limit of just 20 is puzzling. I'm sure there's a lot of AIS management decisions that I have an uninformed, one dimensional, perspective of.

For example, how freshwater AIS (specifically bass) are managed varies a great deal across the province. In Region 1 they have increased the bass limits to unlimited but in other water bodies they are managed with limits of 4. Just a few years ago, there was a closure on bass harvesting during the Apr-June spawn, although that is no longer in place.  In Region 2, it's mostly a limit of 20 and in Region 4, it's mostly illegal to fish for bass, period.

Other AIS that are coarse fish, and not game fish (i.e. carp) can be speared and are not managed. But native coarse fish (i.e. pike minnow) are not managed either.  I don't understand why invasive species are managed and native coarse species are not.

Consider the hunting regs. Many invasive species can be killed or captured with no bag limit and a hunting license is not even required.

Maybe a good conversation to have with a biologist at next year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing

[Rodney]

You know, I would like to understand better how management decisions for AIS (Aquatic Invasive Species ) are made. If it was me, I would decree no limits on Cultus Lake bass and let the haters have at 'er. The limit of just 20 is puzzling. I'm sure there's a lot of AIS management decisions that I have an uninformed, one dimensional, perspective of.

For example, how freshwater AIS (specifically bass) are managed varies a great deal across the province. In Region 1 they have increased the bass limits to unlimited but in other water bodies they are managed with limits of 4. Just a few years ago, there was a closure on bass harvesting during the Apr-June spawn, although that is no longer in place.  In Region 2, it's mostly a limit of 20 and in Region 4, it's mostly illegal to fish for bass, period.

Other AIS that are coarse fish, and not game fish (i.e. carp) can be speared and are not managed. But native coarse fish (i.e. pike minnow) are not managed either.  I don't understand why invasive species are managed and native coarse species are not.

Consider the hunting regs. Many invasive species can be killed or captured with no bag limit and a hunting license is not even required.

Maybe a good conversation to have with a biologist at next year's Chilliwack's All About Fishing

The primary concern which managers have, and I agree with this too, is when you open it up for no-limit retention to cull as an objective, you will have misinformed anglers retaining the wrong species. This is quite evident from what I saw at the Cultus Lake pikeminnow derby, where people were bringing in pretty much everything that doesn't look like salmonids. I also don't think retaining as many fish as possible by angling would make a difference on the population. It may in fact shift the population dynamic, which might even favour it. A better and more efficient approach is probably destroying nests like what the regional biologists have been doing since last spring as a way to control the expansion of the population.

The unfortunate reality is that once they are in there, they are there forever. In five, ten years from now it'll most likely turn into a great smallmouth bass fishery like what Dave said. Once their diet composition survey is done, we'll be able to learn how other species will be affected.

[clarki]

It may in fact shift the population dynamic, which might even favour it.

Meaning anglers will harvest the more aggressive fish, leaving the less aggressive one behind to fill the gene pool, thereby, in the long run, making them harder to cull through angling?   

[Rodney]

No what I meant before was that some harvest would only thin out the population a bit, promote growth of the rest of the fish due to reduction of competition. Bigger fish, resulting in more efficient predation and reproduction.

Most anglers don't realize that culling by angling is an ongoing effort and you'd have to catch a heck lot of fish to have an impact. We don't have enough anglers interested, yet, to have that impact. To really eliminate the entire population, you'd need to just kill off everything by chemical.

[Quin]

"Other AIS that are coarse fish, and not game fish (i.e. carp) can be speared and are not managed".

Heads up for the Island, Lower Mainland, and Kootenays --  No spearfishing of any kind (includes bow fishing) in Region 1, 2 and 4.

I remember seeing people bowfishing carp in lower mainland sloughs way back when, so when I read this a couple years ago, I was a little surprised to find out it was now banned in these areas.

[RalphH]

With smallmouth bass now confirmed in the Region, there has to be the additional concern they will be moved to other waterways as the Largemouths were. Add to that SMs can do well in streams. May be that they don' predate heavily on salmonids but they will compete with them... as they will with various native and non-native species.

[cutthroat22]

I think these bass should be in quarantine for 14 days and then self-isolate. Rumour has it they are not staying local and travelling to further destinations.  I don't believe they can do that on one tank of gas and will ultimate stop in other communities to refuel and get supplies.  Perhaps we should build a wall?  I don't have all the answers.

[Rodney]

I think these bass should be in quarantine for 14 days and then self-isolate. Rumour has it they are not staying local and travelling to further destinations.  I don't believe they can do that on one tank of gas and will ultimate stop in other communities to refuel and get supplies.  Perhaps we should build a wall?  I don't have all the answers.

They should be shamed on social media.

[skaha]

--Each lake, waterbody should have a specific management regime adjusted as required.  In some, non-native species can co-exist and are not invasive. In others, native species may have an unintended competitive advantage, in particular where other competitive species are targeted by anglers. Getting some real data will help to make informed management decisions, we should be supporting the efforts rather than whining about them.

[clarki]

[/quote author=Rodney link=topic=43456.msg411786#msg411786 date=1588132268]
No what I meant before was that some harvest would only thin out the population a bit, promote growth of the rest of the fish due to reduction of competition. Bigger fish, resulting in more efficient predation and production.[/quote]
Got it. Makes good sense.

I think these bass should be in quarantine for 14 days and then self-isolate. Rumour has it they are not staying local and travelling to further destinations.  I don't believe they can do that on one tank of gas and will ultimate stop in other communities to refuel and get supplies.  Perhaps we should build a wall?  I don't have all the answers.

LOL. Maybe a sign would help "Non-local bass not welcome. Go back to where you came from"

we should be supporting the efforts rather than whining about them.

Was that directed at me? I said I didn't understand, that I am uninformed, and wanted to have a conversation. That's not whining.  That's acknowledging that I don't have the whole picture and want to know more. I've learned to be curious. Often, positions fall by the wayside when you ask questions and seek to understand, rather than being understood.

[skaha]

--I attended several fisheries meetings over the years. We made suggestions that seemed acceptable and even endorsed at the local level. Once the suggestions went to the provincial bodies the whiners from other regions just could not seem to live with a different approach. One suggestion that I thought had Merritt was to actually manage and enhance the Bass fishery in designated waters, along with strictly enforcing no fishing for Bass in new areas and further measures to reduce Bass numbers in areas that it was possible to do so.
--So no, was not intending to point fingers at individuals here when there are so many deserving candidates elsewhere.
-- Overall, one of my biggest complaints is with what I call Lazy Management. It is OK to have some general rules of practice, like single barbless hooks for all streams..which was hotly protested at the time, but has become generally accepted. I would much rather see the subject be Cultus Lake Smallmouth Bass monitoring and understanding...maybe we will find that the Bass do not require suppression or that they can be kept at a level where the impact is acceptable.
--Maybe a parallel study on Northern Pikeminnow would show who the Cultus Culprit is, assuming there are some as I don't fish the lake I don't know. In area studies done in USA in some areas, Smallmouth just displaced the Northern Pikeminnow thus when the Bass were removed or suppressed the Pikeminnow returned and ate the same critters.

[Rodney]

Well, it's pretty obviously who the real culprit is when it comes to the demise of Cultus Lake sockeye salmon...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1aGIVJZEw

[Dave]

--I attended several fisheries meetings over the years. We made suggestions that seemed acceptable and even endorsed at the local level. Once the suggestions went to the provincial bodies the whiners from other regions just could not seem to live with a different approach. One suggestion that I thought had Merritt was to actually manage and enhance the Bass fishery in designated waters, along with strictly enforcing no fishing for Bass in new areas and further measures to reduce Bass numbers in areas that it was possible to do so.
--So no, was not intending to point fingers at individuals here when there are so many deserving candidates elsewhere.
-- Overall, one of my biggest complaints is with what I call Lazy Management. It is OK to have some general rules of practice, like single barbless hooks for all streams..which was hotly protested at the time, but has become generally accepted. I would much rather see the subject be Cultus Lake Smallmouth Bass monitoring and understanding...maybe we will find that the Bass do not require suppression or that they can be kept at a level where the impact is acceptable.
--Maybe a parallel study on Northern Pikeminnow would show who the Cultus Culprit is, assuming there are some as I don't fish the lake I don't know. In area studies done in USA in some areas, Smallmouth just displaced the Northern Pikeminnow thus when the Bass were removed or suppressed the Pikeminnow returned and ate the same critters.

I’m with you on this one Skaha.  Cultus Lake is no longer a nice place for salmonids (although a few char might not agree), and Cultus does have history of being managed in specifically.
The bass, as Rodney says, are here to stay. They were transferred at the perfect time, as a Northern Pikeminnow removal program left a perfect niche for these guys to thrive. Whoever or whatever group that did this knew their stuff. This will be a quality fishery when these guys reach about 4-5 lbs
Imo, this bass eradication program should change emphasis and actually become a bass study, the focus being interactions with other species considered of valu. 
As for bass getting into the Vedder, rumour has it they are in Sweltzer Creek already so expect to hear of one caught in the Vedder very soon.

[Rodney]

I’m with you on this one Skaha.  Cultus Lake is no longer a nice place for salmonids (although a few char might not agree), and Cultus does have history of being managed in specifically.
The bass, as Rodney says, are here to stay. They were transferred at the perfect time, as a Northern Pikeminnow removal program left a perfect niche for these guys to thrive. Whoever or whatever group that did this knew their stuff. This will be a quality fishery when these guys reach about 4-5 lbs
Imo, this bass eradication program should change emphasis and actually become a bass study, the focus being interactions with other species considered of valu. 
As for bass getting into the Vedder, rumour has it they are in Sweltzer Creek already so expect to hear of one caught in the Vedder very soon.

Soon you won't be able to keep up with the custom bass stick orders.