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Author Topic: Fraser Pinks 2019  (Read 95248 times)

Hike_and_fish

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #241 on: September 11, 2019, 12:30:19 PM »

Very slow oit there this morning. This should be peak of the run. The nets have had a real effect on fishing.
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sockeyed

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #242 on: September 11, 2019, 03:22:00 PM »

06-Sep       419,400          3,376,000
07-Sep       265,500          3,641,500
08-Sep       373,400          4,014,900
09-Sep       616,800          4,631,700
10-Sep       1,427,000       6,058,700

1.4 million yesterday. Wow......

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 03:25:29 PM by sockeyed »
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canoeboy

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #243 on: September 11, 2019, 03:38:34 PM »

Holy crap!
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #244 on: September 11, 2019, 04:13:53 PM »

06-Sep       419,400          3,376,000
07-Sep       265,500          3,641,500
08-Sep       373,400          4,014,900
09-Sep       616,800          4,631,700
10-Sep       1,427,000       6,058,700

1.4 million yesterday. Wow......

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf

I'm surprised 1.4 mil made it past all those nets. Jeez
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wildmanyeah

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #245 on: September 11, 2019, 04:21:31 PM »

I'm surprised 1.4 mil made it past all those nets. Jeez

It was only a purse seine opening for one band, as far as i know.

Anyways thoes escarpment numbers seem to be agreeing with the catch at the whonnock gill net.  To bad they are still managing based on 5 million returning sad.

Two this either they underestimated based on ocean catch or they underestimated the % of fraser pinks that made up the ocean catch.

or the third political option their was a slide, first nations have said there should be no sport fishing on the fraser. so there is no sport fishing on the fraser.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 04:27:37 PM by wildmanyeah »
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RalphH

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #246 on: September 11, 2019, 05:53:58 PM »

Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.
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fic

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #247 on: September 11, 2019, 06:07:41 PM »

Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.

The test catch graphs in area 29 is consistent with higher than anticipated number of fish compared to previous years. If the counters are wrong then I expect lower number of fish caught.
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Roderick

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #248 on: September 11, 2019, 06:14:18 PM »

It doesn't matter how many pinks we get this year, there could be 15 mil and we still wont get an opening. 


Fact is that there is a tradition?/policy?/whatever that says that the commercial and rec sectors are tied together.  If there are excess fish above conservation and FN concerns, then the recreational sector gets 5% and the commercial gets 95%. 


What this means is that they will not open it up for sporties without letting the commies have their take, and the gill nets intended for pink will kill sockeye when its the lowest run in history.  So even though sporties have limited (in non-tidal) or no (in tidal Fraser) impact on sockeye, they wont open it. 


This tradition/policy, which I imagine was put in place a long, long time ago when the runs were healthy, should change to reflect modern reality. Recreational and commercial openings should be considered separately.  It is 2019 after all.


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wildmanyeah

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #249 on: September 11, 2019, 06:19:34 PM »

Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.

Well if they went off the two in river test fisheries the returns would still be higher than 2015 and 2017 return based on cumulative CUPE. So no matter how you slice it pinks have had a pretty decent come back this year.

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Rodney

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #250 on: September 11, 2019, 07:10:35 PM »

It doesn't matter how many pinks we get this year, there could be 15 mil and we still wont get an opening. 


Fact is that there is a tradition?/policy?/whatever that says that the commercial and rec sectors are tied together.  If there are excess fish above conservation and FN concerns, then the recreational sector gets 5% and the commercial gets 95%. 


What this means is that they will not open it up for sporties without letting the commies have their take, and the gill nets intended for pink will kill sockeye when its the lowest run in history.  So even though sporties have limited (in non-tidal) or no (in tidal Fraser) impact on sockeye, they wont open it. 


This tradition/policy, which I imagine was put in place a long, long time ago when the runs were healthy, should change to reflect modern reality. Recreational and commercial openings should be considered separately.  It is 2019 after all.

How do you explain the opening and daily quota of 4 pinks per day for recs outside the Fraser River mouth?

EricBou

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #251 on: September 11, 2019, 08:26:16 PM »

When the absence of logic is screaming...

One can wonder why... or what is driving the decisions made!!!  :o
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RalphH

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #252 on: September 11, 2019, 08:30:27 PM »

The test catch graphs in area 29 is consistent with higher than anticipated number of fish compared to previous years. If the counters are wrong then I expect lower number of fish caught.

the Cottonwood and Whonnock Test fisheries are not used  to calculate the in season forecasts in any way. There only use is to provide a relative measure of the number salmon that are in the river.  The Hydroacoustic system has some sources of error that none think about - any fish of about the size of a pink may get counted. As Mission is in the tidal portion of the river and salmon will drift up and down river with tidal influences, some may get counted twice. It would be better to compare the HA counts for this year with those of previous years but as I said above, they don't seem to be available on line.

Any forecast ultimately will have some degree of error. It could be the actual run size will vary by 10 or 20% from the forecast but I can't see this year being comparable to 2013. There is nothing to indicate that. I have been on the Vedder the last 2 days and while there are good numbers of pinks it is nothing remarkable. Also don't forget the Area 29 test catches for 2013 etc will reflect large commercial takes in the chuck and downstream of Cottonwood.

Try to comprehend the nuances of the data you use.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 06:58:13 AM by RalphH »
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wildmanyeah

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #253 on: September 11, 2019, 08:42:10 PM »

yeah the run is not nearly as big as 2013 and you have to remember in 2013 the USA took 3 million pnks in the ocean. Then there was our ocean fisheries ect.. Definitely not close to 2013 but seems like its comparable to 2015 and 2015 was open for recs in the fraser.

The Fraser river is not open because of the optics of us having a rec fishery while some FN nations on the Upper Faser have not had a fishery.  If the department continues down this management regime then future recreational opportunities will be diminished.




https://aptnnews.ca/2019/09/11/salmon-swimming-past-b-c-landslide-on-their-own-but-is-it-enough/

Salmon swimming past B.C. landslide on their own – but is it enough?

This is the first year Esk’etemc doesn’t have salmon for its community and although Robbins is happy with the recent salmon success at the landslide, he says more could have been done.

“I like what I see happening now, but when the landslide first happened I think a state of emergency should have been declared,” says Robbins.

“And I strongly believe they should have been transporting fish earlier, and there should have been a complete closure for all fisheries along the coast.”

The Tsilhqot’in Nation also believes closures are needed.

At the beginning of August, they declared a local state of emergency because of the salmon crisis from the landslide and issued a salmon closure last week, prohibiting sockeye, chinook, and coho retention on the Chilcotin, Chilko, and Taseko rivers and tributaries.

(Kukpi7 (Chief) Fred Robbins of Esk’etemc First Nation held a ceremony for the salmon by the Big Bar Landslide. Photo courtesy: Jonathan Hand)

Chief Jimmy Lulua of Xeni Gwet’in First Nation says the Tsilhqot’in have never had to put restrictions on their members.

“The only people that have had restrictions are Indigenous people,” says Lulua. “DFO’s mandate is if First Nations’ needs are not being met than they have to shut down sport fishing. We’ve tested that theory and it doesn’t work. We shut down our fishing, other First Nations along the river have shut down their fishing, but yet sport fishing is still happening.

“Governments have done nothing. They say they want to work with us, but at the end of the day actions speak louder than words.”

The landslide also prompted four Tsilhqot’in communities to buy fish from Ahousaht First Nation on Vancouver Island.

Hundreds of coho arrived on a flatbed trailer last week.

“This is the first time in our history that we have had to buy fish and to me that is unacceptable,” says Lulua.

“There was expected a million fish to make it back to our spawning beds so a couple thousand fish making it over the slide to me is unacceptable. Something has to change.

“When you threaten our fish, you threaten our livelihoods and that means we go to war.”
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:51:44 PM by wildmanyeah »
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psd1179

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Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
« Reply #254 on: September 11, 2019, 09:11:04 PM »

Sounds like the government triggered the land slide LOL
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