Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: fic on August 15, 2019, 09:20:12 AM

Title: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 15, 2019, 09:20:12 AM
From the area 20 Test fisheries, it looks like we may have more pinks this season compared to 2017.  Any rumors of possible openings for the rec sector?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2019, 09:26:00 AM
From the area 20 Test fisheries, it looks like we may have more pinks this season compared to 2017.  Any rumors of possible openings for the rec sector?

Yes it does appear that the test fisheries are improving and may be better then 2017.  In pre season meetings DFO said there may be a 2 week opening for the rec sector in the Fraser for pinks.

The difficulty is late sockeye returns were forecasted to be Low, So if there is no salmon fishing to protect the late run sockeye and no salmon fishing to protect IF coho. It leaves a very small window where you can have an in river pink opening.

That was all too before there was a slide to worry about
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 15, 2019, 11:00:30 AM
If the Fraser doesn't open, then we'll have to target them on the Harrison and Vedder.  The retention is 0 on the Vedder, the last time I checked but 2 on the Harrison.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2019, 11:07:04 AM
Fly fishing for them from a boat at the mouth of the harrison was one of my favourite fisheries. That was when you could actually get a parking spot at kilby.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on August 15, 2019, 03:42:45 PM
If the Fraser doesn't open, then we'll have to target them on the Harrison and Vedder.  The retention is 0 on the Vedder, the last time I checked but 2 on the Harrison.
The better solution would be to open only the tidal Fraser to fishing for pinks - since you really can't bb down there, and you can catch pinks in the tidal casting lures from shore, this would be a pretty selective opening.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Fish Assassin on August 15, 2019, 03:55:26 PM
Wouldn't surprise me in the least they'll open it for recreational fishing at the same time the First Nations have a food fishery.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 15, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
Wouldn't surprise me in the least they'll open it for recreational fishing at the same time the First Nations have a food fishery.

Given the small window they have to work with yes that is very high likelihood there will be nets out. That's the way it goes sometimes better open for all then not.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 15, 2019, 06:00:41 PM
The better solution would be to open only the tidal Fraser to fishing for pinks - since you really can't bb down there, and you can catch pinks in the tidal casting lures from shore, this would be a pretty selective opening.

not much flossing for pinks in the section they open for pinks. Also pretty hard to floss pinks below KW bridge. Flies and lures are excellent in both those places.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: avid angler on August 15, 2019, 07:06:01 PM
not much flossing for pinks in the section they open for pinks. Also pretty hard to floss pinks below KW bridge. Flies and lures are excellent in both those places.
lol are you talking about Keith Wilson bridge on the vedder. 99% of the fly caught pinks between kwb and the highway are flossed.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 15, 2019, 07:36:56 PM
lol are you talking about Keith Wilson bridge on the vedder. 99% of the fly caught pinks between kwb and the highway are flossed.

LOL! As if you counted & did the math.  If they were they don't have to be. Pinks chase a fly. They will even take a popped or waked fly on the surface sometimes chasing it 30 or 40 feet slashing at it the entire distance.

Put in a floating line only reg and then the chance of flossing fish all but disappears.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: avid angler on August 15, 2019, 11:15:47 PM
That’s not how most guys are fishing down there lol
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 16, 2019, 08:35:14 AM
lol are you talking about Keith Wilson bridge on the vedder. 99% of the fly caught pinks between kwb and the highway are flossed.
Out of all the years I've been flyfishing, I've never flossed a single fish with a fly rod. It's a ridiculous thing to say. Even with a sink tip or a sink line. If by chance you end up lining a good floss depth, the feeling of a thick fly line sliding thru the fishes mouth is enough to spook them. Pinks bite.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 09:03:02 AM
I was watching that show fishing on the fly or w/e it was called. They were fly fishing for steelhead on the skeena and catching sockeye after sockeye.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 16, 2019, 09:14:48 AM
Numbers of Pinks caught continue to exceed 2017.  2015 appears to be better than 2019.

Last 10 Days in Area 20
-------------------------------------------
2019           2017           2015
-------------------------------------
494               112           1083
3461             267            1071
1049               81           3908
177                118          4088
4140               59           4391
874                432          4202
3623              130          1848
6521              104          3273
4468              105           731
2895               631          678

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 09:16:14 AM
Numbers of Pinks caught continue to exceed 2017.  2015 appears to be better than 2019.

Last 10 Days in Area 20
-------------------------------------------
2019           2017           2015
-------------------------------------
494               112           1083
3461             267            1071
1049               81           3908
177                118          4088
4140               59           4391
874                432          4202
3623              130          1848
6521              104          3273
4468              105           731
2895               631          678

You need to include area 12 as well, As pinks can come down ether side of the island and the diversion rate can very year to year.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 16, 2019, 09:22:27 AM
Out of all the years I've been flyfishing, I've never flossed a single fish with a fly rod. It's a ridiculous thing to say. Even with a sink tip or a sink line. If by chance you end up lining a good floss depth, the feeling of a thick fly line sliding thru the fishes mouth is enough to spook them. Pinks bite.

Hey! I agree with you! ;D

The information out there for people who want to catch pinks on the fly is really bad. I have observed guides with paying clients who are clearly incompetent (the guides that is). The standard advice to use very hi-density tips is often a recipe to snag both fish and the bottom.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 16, 2019, 09:27:24 AM
I was watching that show fishing on the fly or w/e it was called. They were fly fishing for steelhead on the skeena and catching sockeye after sockeye.

"Sport Fishing on the Fly"

That episode (or episodes) incensed a number of fly anglers. But did you notice how they rigged? Split shot as many as 3 about 3 feet above the fly. Personally I don't know as I have never had the pleasure.

FWIW some anglers claim to regularly catch sockeye in the Skeena while Bar Fishing. The Skeena often has far better clarity than the Fraser in August.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: redside1 on August 16, 2019, 10:19:39 AM
You need to include area 12 as well, As pinks can come down ether side of the island and the diversion rate can very year to year.

good call.
The current diversion rate of sockeye on the last DFO update was 90% down through the inside waters. DFO still has a small overall forecast for pinks on the Fraser.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: samw on August 16, 2019, 10:25:10 AM
2015 appears to be better than 2019.


The totals in your table shows different.  I'm not saying 2019 is better than 2015, just saying that the table that you are using for the claim doesn't support this.
2019: 27,702
2015: 25,273
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 16, 2019, 10:28:47 AM
Aug 9 PSC Weekly Report:

Quote
The estimated diversion rate of sockeye salmon through Johnstone Strait has increased since last week to 90%
while the diversion rate of Fraser pink salmon is 25%, based on recent purse seine test fishery catches in the two
approach areas.


Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 16, 2019, 11:40:57 AM
By next weekend, you should start seeing schools of Pinks at the Summas/Fraser. Guaranteed. I have the past three cycles. Aug 24th last cycle  I have pictures on my phone showing hundreds of Pinks.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on August 16, 2019, 11:48:31 AM
By next weekend, you should start seeing schools of Pinks at the Summas/Fraser. Guaranteed. I have the past three cycles. Aug 24th last cycle  I have pictures on my phone showing hundreds of Pinks.

I have a photo showing hundreds people congregated under Keith bridge that day:)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 16, 2019, 01:17:11 PM
it can be easy to confuse the two.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 02:41:43 PM
Had a bit of spare time So here is the comparison from August 1 to 15. Area 20 + 12 combined. By the numbers this year only looks to be slightly better then 2017, anidotically sounds like its better too.  Still early numbers still influenced by other pink stocks.

(https://i.imgur.com/mc5lzQU.png)

In river is still early and Data deficient

(https://i.imgur.com/YunESOo.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on August 16, 2019, 02:52:41 PM
I assume all the fish caught in the seine are dead, aren't they?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
I assume all the fish caught in the seine are dead, aren't they?

They get sold to fund the test fishery, But purse seins can have a relatively high release survival rate when fish are sorted over the cork line. When not sorted over the cork line by catch is sorted on a table and then put into revival tanks.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 16, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
From 2017 - DFO Notice August 15:

Areas 12 and 20 purse
seine test fisheries indicate Fraser origin pink salmon comprise 30% and 44%,

---
Today's Notice 2019

Fraser Pink salmon run size and timing estimates are expected to be available
later in August. Stock composition information in the Area 12 and 20 purse
seine test fisheries indicates proportions of Fraser Pinks have increased to
48% and 68% respectively. Non-Fraser Southern BC and Washington State Pink
stocks are making up the balance of the Pink abundance at this time.


There is a higher percentage of Fraser Fish this year compared to 2017.  More Fraser pinks are being caught this year compared to 2017 so far.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 03:23:34 PM
From 2017 - DFO Notice August 15:

Areas 12 and 20 purse
seine test fisheries indicate Fraser origin pink salmon comprise 30% and 44%,

---
Today's Notice 2019

Fraser Pink salmon run size and timing estimates are expected to be available
later in August. Stock composition information in the Area 12 and 20 purse
seine test fisheries indicates proportions of Fraser Pinks have increased to
48% and 68% respectively. Non-Fraser Southern BC and Washington State Pink
stocks are making up the balance of the Pink abundance at this time.


There is a higher percentage of Fraser Fish this year compared to 2017.  More Fraser pinks are being caught this year compared to 2017 so far.

Love the comparison thanks for sharing! So does that mean fraser pinks are early this year?  does that mean their is more fraser pinks this year? or does it mean there is less pinks from other stocks?

So that data combined with the data I have posted mean that probably this year is a bit better then 2017 for fraser pinks how does it compare to 2015?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 16, 2019, 03:54:55 PM
from the PSC Weekly Management Report (Aug 16) https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/

Quote
Pink salmon catches in marine area purse seine test fisheries have increased over the last week and for Area 20 are above the cycle average.

Analyses of recent pink salmon DNA samples collected from the Area 20 test fishery indicate that 68% of the pink salmon encountered are of Fraser
River origin, 21% are from Puget Sound, and 12 % are from South Coast stocks. These Fraser River pink proportions are high in comparison to previous years and highlight the relative strength of Fraser pink returns in comparison to other pink stocks.

Analyses of recent pink salmon DNA samples collected from the Area 20 test fishery indicate that 68% of the pink salmon encountered are of Fraser
River origin, 21% are from Puget Sound, and 12 % are from South Coast stocks. These Fraser River pink proportions are high in comparison to previous years and highlight the relative strength of Fraser pink returns in comparison to other pink stocks.

Currently there is no in season Pinks salmon estimate but the trend is for a return over the cycle average (12.7 million).

Sockeye returns are disastrous. Estimates for the early summer return is below the P10 level. Returns of Summer sockeye have been estimated at 224,000 vs the pre season estimate of 3.9 million

This is shaping up to be the worst sockeye return on record, well below 2016. None of this factors in the effects of the Big Bar Slide which has proven to be impassable to sockeye so far.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 16, 2019, 05:17:29 PM
Love the comparison thanks for sharing! So does that mean fraser pinks are early this year?  does that mean their is more fraser pinks this year? or does it mean there is less pinks from other stocks?

So that data combined with the data I have posted mean that probably this year is a bit better then 2017 for fraser pinks how does it compare to 2015?
The closest comparable to 2015 is this", updated on August 14th 2015.

 "although the proportion of Fraser pinks has increased to 55% in Area 20. " 

No percentage was given for area 12 because the numbers to low to calculate it, I assume.

At 68% in area 20 this year, it's higher than the 55% in 2015.  I think the timing of pinks is pretty regular and may be varies by a few days. If the trend continues, it does look decent for Fraser Pinks. They have said there is not enough data yet to come to a reliable conclusion, so we'll have to wait until the data scientists make the call.

Other Pink stocks like the Squamish, don't seem to be getting as many pinks this time around.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 05:23:31 PM
Yeah something to look forward too, Altho I herd they closed the river to trout fishing so people would not be going after pinks and saying they were out trout fishing. Thats just a rumor tho
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 16, 2019, 05:33:28 PM
Yeah something to look forward too, Altho I herd they closed the river to trout fishing so people would not be going after pinks and saying they were out trout fishing. Thats just a rumor tho

Yep this one:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region2.html

Fraser River    No fishing for trout in the mainstem upstream of the CPR Bridge at Mission    August 15, 2019
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 16, 2019, 05:43:09 PM
Yep this one:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/changes/1719/region2.html

Fraser River    No fishing for trout in the mainstem upstream of the CPR Bridge at Mission    August 15, 2019

Unbelievable. Here we have ( what looks like a decent ) Pink Salmon run, really solid Chinook numbers and they dont want people fishing this river for trout ? This whole thing stinks. Its obviously because FN jave not yet filled quotas. Am I right ? Sure seems like it. Holy cow.

Anyone wanna buy a jet boat ?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 16, 2019, 05:48:51 PM
I herd it’s because they to ensure all the pinks make it up to the slide site. Again just a rumour

My guess it’s also to do with optics, if the nets are out of the river the rods better be too.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 16, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
My guess it’s also to do with optics, if the nets are out of the river the rods better be too.

Again. FN didnt fill their quotas so everyone suffers even tho FN dont normally retain Pink salmon for ceremonial purposes. Until this year I assume.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: rln on August 16, 2019, 10:36:03 PM
Unbelievable. Here we have ( what looks like a decent ) Pink Salmon run, really solid Chinook numbers and they dont want people fishing this river for trout ? This whole thing stinks. Its obviously because FN jave not yet filled quotas. Am I right ? Sure seems like it. Holy cow.

Anyone wanna buy a jet boat ?

The closure for trout fishing is to protect interior Fraser steelhead. They start to show up now. If you follow the regulation changes you will see the closure goes all the way up to the mouth of the chilcotin River.
Check out the region 3 & 5 in season updates.
Not really a First Nations deal at this time.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 17, 2019, 05:15:02 AM
The closure for trout fishing is to protect interior Fraser steelhead. They start to show up now. If you follow the regulation changes you will see the closure goes all the way up to the mouth of the chilcotin River.
Check out the region 3 & 5 in season updates.
Not really a First Nations deal at this time.

I find it hard to believe considering Chinook numbers and Pink numbers have been the best in 2 years or more. It's not stopping FN set nets in the river. So........... a rod and reel pose a greater threat ? I think not.

Not that I have an issue with FN fishing for their share. I dont at all. Just simply saying there seems to be something greater behind this decision.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on August 17, 2019, 05:41:51 AM
I see the trout fishing closure as a direct consequence of guides and other very visible anglers choosing to ignore the pink closure in 2017 and deliberately targeting pinks for catch & release.  The next step, if this doesn't work, is a clear "sturgeon fishing only" regulation  that will include minimum hook sizes and other gear restrictions.  C&R is NOT a zero mortality fishery, especially in warm waters and especially with pinks - those fish bleed out if you sneeze at them.  I hope we do get a window to target pinks in the Fraser, but until then I hope everyone can resist the temptation to test the waters by saying they are targeting something else. 

Also, it makes sense to me that the Fraser returns would be relatively better than those on the Squamish and other smaller systems because the pinks that spawn in the main stem and side channels of the Fraser I THINK didn't suffer the same extreme gravel moving events as the smaller rivers.  Just spitballing.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 17, 2019, 07:15:25 AM
Does anyone know if the Vedder suffered the same Gravel moving events during last season's rainstorm?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on August 17, 2019, 07:26:06 AM
I believe the "gravel moving events" (big rain storms that washed out Salmon eggs in 2017) were mostly an issue with the Squamish system itself. Others have mentioned in the past that the Squamish systems surrounding forest has been logged to such a great degree that when it rains hard the river rises fast and gets very turbid - one of the major problems with such severe logging. I don't think the other local rivers / Fraser tribs suffer to the same degree as they haven't been logged as severely. I could be wrong though.

It also depends really where the bulk of the rain comes down. Often it is pouring in Squamish an sunny in Chilliwack, or vise versa. I guess time will tell depending on the local tribs return.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 17, 2019, 08:50:41 AM
I herd it’s because they to ensure all the pinks make it up to the slide site. Again just a rumour

My guess it’s also to do with optics, if the nets are out of the river the rods better be too.

there are no major runs of pinks that go to and above the Big Bar Slide. |Seaton Creek is the most northerly major spawning return.Pink are sporadically present in the Quesnel system .Trout are open in the river below Mission. The Province didn't provide an on line rational though some folks attributed that move to IFS protection.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 17, 2019, 10:21:52 AM
So will the Fraser coho shut again to protect those ifr steelhead or is it to save the springs for the killer whales?  Doesn't opening Fraser pinks also threatens those 4 fish that make it to spawning grounds?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 17, 2019, 10:25:47 AM
So will the Fraser coho shut again to protect those ifr steelhead or is it to save the springs for the killer whales?  Doesn't opening Fraser pinks also threatens those 4 fish that make it to spawning grounds?

The Fraser is closed for sure during the fall coho salmon run time this year and for the years to come.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Jamier on August 17, 2019, 11:55:40 AM
Rod, so the closure for coho will not be the same as last year? Lower Fraser bar fishing opened end of October last year. Your saying we won't have any chance of fishing Coho this year or years to come. Correct?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 17, 2019, 12:01:08 PM
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The expected closure dates will be from September 21st to November 1st for the tidal portion of the Fraser River, from September 22nd to November 2nd for the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River from Mission to Hope. I guess there are still some opportunities for coho after November 1st. :-[

As for what's going to happen after August 23rd until September 20th, there's no information on that. It is unlikely that we will see a retention opening like two years ago IMO.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Jamier on August 17, 2019, 04:49:18 PM
Thanks for clarifying. Always enjoy my barfishing days on the river.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 17, 2019, 06:20:45 PM
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The expected closure dates will be from September 21st to November 1st for the tidal portion of the Fraser River, from September 22nd to November 2nd for the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River from Mission to Hope. I guess there are still some opportunities for coho after November 1st. :-[

As for what's going to happen after August 23rd until September 20th, there's no information on that. It is unlikely that we will see a retention opening like two years ago IMO.

As far as fishing for pinks, my experience is that the best fishing for pinks on the Fraser is done by those dates, particularly on the tidal section. Coho have been closed during those dates for 20 years or more - I'd bet $ Rod you know the year it started.

It is a shame to see the end of Bar fishing as I knew it since the mid-60s.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 17, 2019, 07:32:26 PM
Bar fishing for chinooks should be open right now, no reason for it not to be. The natives got gill nets in the water, no good reason for the bar fishermen to be left out.

Plus its annoying watching all the jet boats at sandheads bob up and down lol

isn't it about time for freds annual protest fishery?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 17, 2019, 09:55:05 PM
Bar fishing for chinooks should be open right now, no reason for it not to be. The natives got gill nets in the water, no good reason for the bar fishermen to be left out.

Plus its annoying watching all the jet boats at sandheads bob up and down lol

isn't it about time for freds annual protest fishery?

The sport fishing Alliance guys are silent that's for sure. Maybe Rod can explain why.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: cdjk123 on August 18, 2019, 07:44:57 AM
curious about this too ^^
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 18, 2019, 07:53:32 AM
The sport fishing Alliance guys are silent that's for sure. Maybe Rod can explain why.

Again this is just a rumor

Remember last year all the FN fishing photos making the rounds on social media. Well most of the photos were taken by sturgeon fishing guides. I herd that the First Nations threatened that they were going to get sturg fishing shut down as well as go after quota. Sturg fishing is the bread and butter of the fraser river guiding comunity. Apparently thoes threat worked and silenced a lot of our sports fishing reps.

Since then it sounds like our reps have been working on trying to get a round table process started. So it doesn't make sense to be public about stuff as it may jeopardize that.

anyways just rumors don't no if any of its true
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 18, 2019, 10:17:28 AM
https://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/gathering-at-the-river-event-aug-26-to-promote-harmony-between-anglers-and-first-nations.76404/

CHILLIWACK, BC – With a challenging 2019 summer fishing season underway in the Lower Fraser River region, the Fraser River Peacemakers and the Cheam Fishing Village will host a Gathering at the River on August 26 to promote harmony between recreational anglers and regional First Nation fishing communities.


Special guests and dignitaries from various communities will share a meal and enjoy the day together at the Cheam Fishing Village in Agassiz in a spirit of friendship. The day will feature speakers, cultural ceremonies and good will.

Reflecting its mandate to promote harmony on the Fraser, the Peacemakers’ message to all fishers is to be considerate, practice safety and communicate clearly with other people on the river. The Peacemakers’ mantra is to be respectful and avoid conflict by using good etiquette and sportsmanship. The protocol is demonstrated in the Peacemakers’ video, River Manners, at www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbyYW9cerxA&feature=youtu.be


The message of respect and goodwill is particularly relevant this summer. In order to protect the stocks, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans imposed restrictions on commercial, recreational and First Nation fishing of Chinook salmon in the Lower Fraser River tidal waters and non-tidal waters. As of August 15, the province also closed the main stem of the Fraser above the Mission Bridge to trout fishing. The Peacemakers are working to provide guidance where this is fishing to reduce tensions between eager anglers and First Nations fishers.


“Fraser River Peacemakers members encourage aboriginal and non-aboriginal fishers to exercise courtesy to one another in the coming weeks,” said Ernie Crey, Peacemakers co-chair and chief of Cheam First Nation. “Doing so ensures the fishery is well-managed, the resource can be shared and all fishers are respected and remain safe.”

The Chinook closures have impacted all fishing sectors, noted Rod Clapton, a Peacemakers director and B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers president.

“The summer of 2019 has seen total closures of the lower Fraser River recreational salmon and trout fishing resulting in tremendous economic losses to the local economies and loss of a valued Canadian heritage. First Nations food fisheries have been severely curtailed, creating significant hardship among their Fraser River communities. Salmon and steelhead stocks are at point of extreme conservation concern, which demands that all fishers come together seeking solutions to rebuild and protect our fisheries,” Clapton said.

“We would hope that despite these current closures, the August 26 gathering on the river will demonstrate that our communities can come together seeking responsible joint initiatives that will lead to preserving these priceless resources for future generations,” Clapton added.


The Gathering at the River event will build on the good will developed during informal meetings held earlier this year between Lower Fraser First Nations fishing communities and recreational fisher groups.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 18, 2019, 01:42:32 PM
anyways just rumors don't no if any of its true

It's just rumours.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: avid angler on August 18, 2019, 04:38:30 PM
I was offered chinook for 5 dollars a fish any size and have heard of guys selling for almost as cheap elsewhere. Don’t think anyone is hurting that bad for food.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 18, 2019, 05:33:19 PM
I was offered chinook for 5 dollars a fish any size and have heard of guys selling for almost as cheap elsewhere. Don’t think anyone is hurting that bad for food.

Sts'ailes selling salmon ? Blasphemy !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 19, 2019, 08:59:22 PM
I know its premature but I just came back from a scouting mission in the Summas/Fraser. The Panoptix spotted some fish at the mouth. I didnt see any. Saw 4 or 5 seals. I had ( what looked like ) a DFO chopper do a low flyby on my, came back and hovered 100 yards above my head for a min. I didnt even have a rod on the boat. I saw two other smaller boats in the canal scouting as well
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Animal Chin on August 19, 2019, 10:18:43 PM
Coho have been closed during those dates for 20 years or more - I'd bet $ Rod you know the year it started.

My reference point only goes back 6-7 years, but with the exception of last year.. don't they usually open the lower (tidal) Fraser for coho around Oct 10th .. or the 1st weekend of October?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 19, 2019, 11:02:37 PM
My reference point only goes back 6-7 years, but with the exception of last year.. don't they usually open the lower (tidal) Fraser for coho around Oct 10th .. or the 1st weekend of October?

It wasnt really closed at all. I can remeber lining up outside Kanaka creek with 10 other guys first week of Oct or late Sept for years and spin casting for Coho
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 20, 2019, 06:49:01 AM
retention of coho has been closed from around Labour Day until Thanksgiving for 20 years or more. In Odd numbered years it was open to retain pinks.  Last year a full salmon closure extended it 2 weeks or so. This year it will extend until Nov 1st or 2nd.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 09:34:22 AM
The issue this year is more the poor returns of sockeye. Late run sockeye are going to managed to 10% exploration rate with no direct fishery.  First Nations have priority so if they use up that 10% in their Chinook and pink fisheries. There will be no exploitation left for recreational fishermen.

really will depend if they decide to up that 10% sometimes they up it to 20% or even 30%.  Would really need to question the reasoning if they did decide to raise it in a year where sockeye returns are the worst on record.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on August 20, 2019, 09:46:53 AM
Just got a reminder for "potential start of pinks on the Fraser" in 11 days - August 31.
The reminder was from 2010 but I think it is from earlier than that.

We are still a week and a half away from a "normal" opening for pinks.

26 million Fraser pinks in 2013.
15 million Fraser pinks in 2015.
3.5 million Fraser pinks in 2017.
5 million Fraser pinks expected in 2019.

Looked up the notices from the 2013:

August 30, 2013 - notice FN0820 (tidal):
Pink: Effective immediately, until 23:59 hours Tuesday, December 31, 2013 the daily
limit is four (4) pink salmon per day.  There is a minimum size limit for pink
salmon of 30 cm.

August 30, 2013 - notice FN0825 (non-tidal):
Effective one hour before sunrise Saturday, August 31, 2013 until one hour
after sunset Tuesday, December 31, 2013 the waters of the Fraser River in
Region 2 upstream of the CPR bridge at Mission to Alexandria bridge are open to
the retention of four (4) pink salmon per day; and, two (2) chum salmon per day.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Tangles on August 20, 2019, 10:07:05 AM
Chubs and pikeminnows really picked up big time over the last few days - my cat is a happy cat  :P
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 01:20:20 PM
Going to be a good return this year must of released 15 of Thoes slime balls yesterday at sandheads. Did not bother keeping any. Did not have this issue in 2017. Annoying went though a pack of anchovies but managed one 15 pound chinook.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 03:55:56 PM
Current Fraser River Panel (FRP) information has determined that all four run timing groups of  Fraser R. Sockeye are in a low abundance exploitation rate (LAER) scenario.  At this time there are no allowable impacts available due to identified conservation concerns and the LAER is expected to be fully utilized in First Nation fisheries in fisheries directed at other species (i.e. Fraser Chinook).  This action is intended to mitigate potential impacts on sockeye and demonstrate priority to First Nations.  These management measures are being implemented given extremely poor returns of Fraser sockeye and extremely limited sockeye impacts available and to provide for priority access to chinook for First Nations food, social and ceremonial harvest opportunities.

Fraser pinks on the other hand appear to be returning at levels above the p75 forecast.  It is early in the migration but it is expected that the PSC will recommend a minimum Fraser River pink run size next week.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 20, 2019, 04:03:29 PM
Pack those pink rods up for two more years boys and girls. ;)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 04:12:41 PM
Pack those pink rods up for two more years boys and girls. ;)

Vedder will be open surely there is enough room for everyone!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 04:41:24 PM
There is a window where they may be able to have a pink fishery in the fraser it would be about september 15th-30th
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: chris gadsden on August 20, 2019, 06:01:23 PM
Its like kicking a dead horse but if we did not have the threat of BB ing no reason we could not have a bar fishing only, no harm to sockeye numbers. Many of us said this many years ago it would come up and bite us. I thought the Alliance was close to having a 3 foot leader brought in too, where is that at?

I wonder if this is the first BB thread for this year as I donot check this site out like I used too.

As many of us oldtimers now say, we have seen the best of it on the Fraser River.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 20, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
Its like kicking a dead horse but if we did not have the threat of BB ing no reason we could not have a bar fishing only, no harm to sockeye numbers. Many of us said this many years ago it would come up and bite us. I thought the Alliance was close to having a 3 foot leader brought in too, where is that at?

I wonder if this is the first BB thread for this year as I donot check this site out like I used too.

As many of us oldtimers now say, we have seen the best of it on the Fraser River.

Its not about BB, its all about satisfying first nations, Way easier to make then have selective/beach seine fisheries when we are off the water. If it was about BB you could still open the lower fraser. The pink fishery is is a very important one, it's the one salmon fishery where you can walk down to the fraser cast a spoon and have a good chance at landing a salmon. It is often the fishery that gets people into it that then they go onto other fisheries.

as you said tho it really is like kicking a dead horse, IMO tho if we can somehow work with first nations in a process that does not have dfo involvement.  like a round table we would be better off.  If we had first nation approval to have a pink fishery I know DFO would let it happen.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 20, 2019, 06:30:40 PM
The Test Fishery continue to be pretty decent.  I am guessing 13 Million Fraser Pinks for 2019. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: chris gadsden on August 20, 2019, 08:08:49 PM
Its not about BB, its all about satisfying first nations, Way easier to make then have selective/beach seine fisheries when we are off the water. If it was about BB you could still open the lower fraser. The pink fishery is is a very important one, it's the one salmon fishery where you can walk down to the fraser cast a spoon and have a good chance at landing a salmon. It is often the fishery that gets people into it that then they go onto other fisheries.

as you said tho it really is like kicking a dead horse, IMO tho if we can somehow work with first nations in a process that does not have dfo involvement.  like a round table we would be better off.  If we had first nation approval to have a pink fishery I know DFO would let it happen.
This is being tried once again, many years ago one was started here in Chilliwack and it started out OK but quickly fizzled out Rodney attended I believe and he can relate what happened.
As I said there has been cases and still is, a Round Table, Peace Keepers and other meetings but not many results as I see it. Then there was a story in the paper some F/N people are saying close the Fraser to the commercial and rec sector. It gave the indication we were fishing now. Here is the link  https://www.theprogress.com/e-editions/?iid=i20190814021913528&&headline=Q2hpbGxpd2FjayBQcm9ncmVzcywgQXVndXN0IDE0LCAyMDE5&doc_id=190814091930-2ee6991664eaee3ef935cb5375d6dd98&fbclid=IwAR1VctDX3C3646BCPCnyF65-aFhdtV8NcD26p0PiJ_Ml88nBkOoQHZtgHiE page 6. Not encouraging is it?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 20, 2019, 08:27:18 PM
The Test Fishery continue to be pretty decent.  I am guessing 13 Million Fraser Pinks for 2019.

my guess is over 5. How much over ? I'm going with 6.2mil. Last year the official total was over the estimated
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 21, 2019, 10:00:32 AM
The fishery notices are now available. No salmon fishing until further notice for the Lower Fraser River.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224560&ID=all

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224556&ID=all

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224552&ID=all
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on August 21, 2019, 10:05:38 AM
The fishery notices are now available. No salmon fishing until further notice for the Lower Fraser River.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224560&ID=all

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224556&ID=all

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224552&ID=all

It is good time to go interior lake then LOL
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 21, 2019, 10:37:32 AM
This is being tried once again, many years ago one was started here in Chilliwack and it started out OK but quickly fizzled out Rodney attended I believe and he can relate what happened.
As I said there has been cases and still is, a Round Table, Peace Keepers and other meetings but not many results as I see it. Then there was a story in the paper some F/N people are saying close the Fraser to the commercial and rec sector. It gave the indication we were fishing now. Here is the link  https://www.theprogress.com/e-editions/?iid=i20190814021913528&&headline=Q2hpbGxpd2FjayBQcm9ncmVzcywgQXVndXN0IDE0LCAyMDE5&doc_id=190814091930-2ee6991664eaee3ef935cb5375d6dd98&fbclid=IwAR1VctDX3C3646BCPCnyF65-aFhdtV8NcD26p0PiJ_Ml88nBkOoQHZtgHiE page 6. Not encouraging is it?

I talked to two first nations cheifs about the link you posted and this one https://bc.ctvnews.ca/close-fraser-river-to-all-fishing-while-assessing-rockslide-musqueam-say-1.4542244.

Their response to me was not my Nation and their goverment does not speak for me.  There is however one thing you will never see and that is one First Nation calling out another.

I think tho it does highlight the difficulties of setting up a round table with so many individual nations on the lower Fraser.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 21, 2019, 12:30:29 PM
I talked to two first nations cheifs about the link you posted and this one https://bc.ctvnews.ca/close-fraser-river-to-all-fishing-while-assessing-rockslide-musqueam-say-1.4542244.

Their response to me was not my Nation and their goverment does not speak for me.  There is however one thing you will never see and that is one First Nation calling out another.

I think tho it does highlight the difficulties of setting up a round table with so many individual nations on the lower Fraser.

It's easy for the wealthy bands along the Fraser to say stop fishing. Tswassen, Musqueam and others can get by. The uo stream bands need the salmon.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 21, 2019, 03:29:51 PM
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224564&ID=all

3 Day opening for American Commercial boats for Pinks.

During the Panel call today the run size for pink salmon remained unchanged at
the p50 forecast level of 5,018,600 and an Area 20 timing of August 28. At this
run size there is international TAC available and US commercial fisheries were
approved beginning Wednesday, August 21 through Friday, August 23.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 21, 2019, 06:49:49 PM
https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/photos/a.377539272711/10156680233852712

Posted my thoughts on today's decision.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 21, 2019, 07:25:54 PM
https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/photos/a.377539272711/10156680233852712

Posted my thoughts on today's decision.

Some of the harshest criticism I have herd you use in a very long time. Thanks for the write up.

means a lot


The extra sad part in all this with the fraser slide we could be running into this issue for decades to come every 4 years. low sockeye abundance(from slide) running into the steelhead closure.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Fish Assassin on August 21, 2019, 07:46:09 PM
https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/photos/a.377539272711/10156680233852712

Posted my thoughts on today's decision.

Well written. Never was a fan of DFO's fish management.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 21, 2019, 09:03:04 PM
Well that's a nicely put together piece Rod but it neglects a couple of things.

Selective methods or tackle restrictions have created more conflict than unity among recreational anglers. Some of the people championing a short leader restriction for the Fraser have been adamant opponents of other tackle restrictions that they felt attacked & denied their own preferences. At times we seem to hate each other as much as other communities that exploit the resource.

Bonanzas like the bi-annual pink run brings out the worst activity among 'sports' anglers. Included among that has been the inability to identify between zero retention species, like pinks vs coho or pinks vs chinook. Perhaps if we as a community were better behaved in the past and at other times the situation could be different.

The fact is the recreational community comes last of the 3 sectors. Other sectors forced to challenge DFO and the Federal power won that tier system.

There are other fishing opportunities and this isn't the first time we've lived through a full salmon closure on the Fraser Mainstem during a pink return. Rather than cry in our beer we need to explore these. Just about anyone who goes can tell you the interior lakes or places like the Skagit are all but empty in September and October. Often that's the best fishing in those places of the year.

Fact is I have scheduled some fishing away during what was usually my favorite week of September to fish for pinks. It wasn't hard to guess that a Pink Salmon opening was a questionable thing.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 21, 2019, 09:34:27 PM

Fact is I have scheduled some fishing away during what was usually my favorite week of September to fish for pinks. It wasn't hard to guess that a Pink Salmon opening was a questionable thing.

Wow you knew that there was going to be a bad sockeye return. That because of a fraser river slide they were going to manage it to a 10% exploitation rate instead of a 20% and therefore not have anything left for the recreational sector.

Or did you just think the return of pinks was going to be small??

want to cry for the rest of the night watch this, Brought me to tears

https://www.facebook.com/SpruceCityWildlifeAssociation/videos/733417943784732/
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 21, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Wow you knew that there was going to be a bad sockeye return. That because of a Fraser river slide they were going to manage it to a 10% exploitation rate instead of a 20% and therefore not have anything left for the recreational sector.

Or did you just think the return of pinks was going to be small??

want to cry for the rest of the night watch this, Brought me to tears

https://www.facebook.com/SpruceCityWildlifeAssociation/videos/733417943784732/

The effects of the slide is a tragedy but has zip to do with anything I said yet you styled it in your own inimitable way. The slide is a natural disaster has nothing to do with the dismal sockeye return so far this year. It just makes it that much worse. Stay home and cry if you want. It will make no difference.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 21, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
But the slide does effect how they are managing exploitation  rates that then effects how they manage Chinook and pink fisheries.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on August 21, 2019, 11:05:14 PM
If I was the FN leadership, I would be arguing that DFO should not worry about the exploitation rate at all.  What is the point in letting 90% of sockeye escape upriver when the majority of them are going to tire out and die downstream of the slide anyway?  There is a finite amount of fish that DFO will be able to transport above the slide site.  The way things are going, there is no way they can transport even 50% of what shows up there.  It it totally illogical. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: chris gadsden on August 22, 2019, 03:53:53 AM
https://www.facebook.com/fishingwithrod/photos/a.377539272711/10156680233852712

Posted my thoughts on today's decision.
This is what happen in the 1980 when the rec community was not treated fairly, not that I am condoning such action but this did lead to a meeting with the fisheries minister of the time Tom Siddon. This got us a lot of fishing opportunity in the years ahead that we have now lost for one reason or another. Its a bit brutal to watch and should have PG rating and we all look a lot younger too.lol This is the first time I have made this clip public, from my video files.https://youtu.be/kHRREqs9prA
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 22, 2019, 08:35:55 AM
1980 when Thompson river chinook we’re down to less then 2K because they had been almost wiped out by commercial fishermen.

Now it’s the strongest run of chinook in the Fraser and in 2015 over 100k returned. This year looks like it may be just as strong as 2015. Thanks for posting interesting to see the arguments from back then.

I was part of a protest in north van this year at the ministers office. It resulted in the organizers getting 2 sit downs with the minister who blamed the ocean closures on First Nation priority.

He has no excuses tho on the Fraser when it comes to tackle restrictions would be interesting to see how he would handle it.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: canoeboy on August 22, 2019, 10:32:42 AM
So basically this means rivers like the Vedder are going to be even more of a gong show then usual?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on August 22, 2019, 01:24:26 PM
So basically this means rivers like the Vedder are going to be even more of a gong show then usual?

Absolutely
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on August 22, 2019, 02:03:19 PM
So much for the slogan of 'Fishing in the City' if you have to drive that far to the Vedder for pinks when they are blowing by us city folks by the millions in tidal Fraser. We need fishery ministers who have done enough fishing to know that your chance of catching a sockeye by casting a pink spoon from shore for pinks is zero. DFO just can't deny people a fair chance and freedom to enjoy the pink fishery every 2 years with so little excuse. More tackle shores will closed if they are not already if DFO can't even open the popular pink fishery with zero impact on sockeye or chinook. If it is that easy to hook these from tidal Fraser with a spoon, Chris would't be complaining about bb around Chilliwack or Hope all these years. LOL. Who in the right mind will spend all that time and gas of driving that far if they can catch sockeye and chinook with a lure here at Tidal Fraser. So for a fishery minister and his staff to be so ignorant about these facts on actual fishing on the Fraser is just mind boggling. On what basis and merits is a fishery minister appointed? Their decisions can affect so many and yet they seem to have practically zero knowledge on what really has been happening in the popular pink fishery or for that matter most other fisheries. Like Rod said, pink fishery is like a family affair where youngsters get the first taste of successful salmon fishing with the help of their parents while the family have a good time doing wholesome fishing activity together. This breeds the next generation of fishers, and that is mindlessly taken away from the youngsters. What is really wrong with DFO and its mindless administrators and staff?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Fish Assassin on August 22, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
Ministerial appointments are political appointments nothing more.  :(
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: santefe on August 22, 2019, 03:03:46 PM
Am I missing something here?
I see fish being netted in the Fraser.
I can go to the mouth of the Fraser, area 29 and fish for Chinook.
Why can't I go and bar fish or cast a spoon in the Fraser for salmon?
I'm about to give up trying to make sense of DFO regulations.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on August 22, 2019, 03:23:33 PM
Am I missing something here?
I see fish being netted in the Fraser.
I can go to the mouth of the Fraser, area 29 and fish for Chinook.
Why can't I go and bar fish or cast a spoon in the Fraser for salmon?
I'm about to give up trying to make sense of DFO regulations.

If you cannot afford a big boat, do not fish salmon -- DFO
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: SALMONRULE on August 22, 2019, 11:42:27 PM
This whole situation really blows , I personally love fishing, I may not be any good at it, but this pink year would have been my first year fishing with my own vehicle. Its really frustrating to see how ignorant and ill informed the people in charge are. Do they not get the simple idea that fisheries are a system and that they should have a systems thinking mindset when approaching these problems. Im just going to wait a few more days and head on down to the river. these pink buzzbombs and crocs that I have been hoarding are eagerly awaiting a sockeye to bite it  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 23, 2019, 05:13:19 AM
Well, I'm fishing for Pinks. I dont wait 2 years for nothing. This year looks better than the last. We should start to see schools of them at the Sumas and Harrison mouths this weekend. I didnt spend $18,000 on a brand new jet sled for nothing. Pinks were part of the reason. Next week is on. When the chopper flys above my head when I'm within the boundaries of the Harrison and Summas, I'll make sure to give them a one finger salute
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on August 23, 2019, 10:06:15 AM
Theyre coming!


09-Aug 2,200
10-Aug 2,200
11-Aug 1,600
12-Aug 1,300
13-Aug 2,300
14-Aug 5,300
15-Aug 5,100
16-Aug 3,900
17-Aug 5,600
18-Aug 6,500
19-Aug 7,600
20-Aug 29,400
21-Aug 38,600
22-Aug 47,100
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: SALMONRULE on August 23, 2019, 11:35:16 AM
Theyre coming!


09-Aug 2,200
10-Aug 2,200
11-Aug 1,600
12-Aug 1,300
13-Aug 2,300
14-Aug 5,300
15-Aug 5,100
16-Aug 3,900
17-Aug 5,600
18-Aug 6,500
19-Aug 7,600
20-Aug 29,400
21-Aug 38,600
22-Aug 47,100

what are these numbers for , and where was it recorded !!!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on August 23, 2019, 01:01:58 PM
There is a hydro acoustic station in mission that can estimate passage for Sockeye and Pinks. These numbers above are for pinks, at their peak in the first week of September you can expect upwards of 200,000 a day if it is a good run.



https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fish-passage-past-the-psc-hydroacoustic-counting-station-near-mission-bc/
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: SALMONRULE on August 23, 2019, 01:57:00 PM
There is a hydro acoustic station in mission that can estimate passage for Sockeye and Pinks. These numbers above are for pinks, at their peak in the first week of September you can expect upwards of 200,000 a day if it is a good run.



https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fish-passage-past-the-psc-hydroacoustic-counting-station-near-mission-bc/

thank you very much, very interesting and will now monitor the site during the season !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 23, 2019, 02:11:02 PM
A friend of mine is sturgeon fishing today. He stopped by the Summas and a large school in the clear water. It's starting
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 23, 2019, 04:10:19 PM
From the notice a few minutes ago

"In Canada potential commercial fisheries for Pink salmon are being considered with Sockeye non-retention restrictions if they are to proceed."

Hopefully a rec opening will follow. What do I know tho. Definitely not what Rod knows that's for sure.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 23, 2019, 04:58:57 PM
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224753&ID=all

7,400,000 Pinks. Estimate increased from 5 Million.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 25, 2019, 11:41:09 AM
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224753&ID=all

7,400,000 Pinks. Estimate increased from 5 Million.

MY guess is they are going to down size it back to 5 million, test sets have really dropped of in recent days
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 25, 2019, 02:34:23 PM
MY guess is they are going to down size it back to 5 million, test sets have really dropped of in recent days

They do every cycle. It'll climb fast.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: armytruck on August 25, 2019, 09:34:28 PM
River was full with gillnetters today at golden ears . Y
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 25, 2019, 09:54:38 PM
River was full with gillnetters today at golden ears . Y

Lower Fraser River First Nations' FSC chinook salmon fishery.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 26, 2019, 08:56:09 AM
85 yesterday. Here they come !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: armytruck on August 26, 2019, 12:21:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffsZLXi0Qsc
Yes  ::)
They've already have come south  :o :( ??? ::) :P .
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on August 26, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffsZLXi0Qsc
Yes  ::)
They've already have come south  :o :( ??? ::) :P .

Flossing pinks.... classic. I guess that river has 0 vis so that is the only way to catch them.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on August 28, 2019, 10:03:53 AM
Looks to be decent numbers of pinks coming into the Fraser.

2017-08-27 Cottonwood numbers were = 8
The highest it got that year for Cottonwood was 84 on the last day of testing on Sept 10

2019-08-27 Cottonwood numbers are = 76

The marine area (San Juan) is dropping rapidly but were good.

2017-08-27 Area 20 San Juan Sockeye Seine = 166 with a peak of 3267 on Aug 15.
2019-08-27 Area 20 San Juan Sockeye Seine = 113 but a peak of 9620 on Aug 18.

There must be a lot of pinks jumping in the Fraser right now.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 28, 2019, 12:20:13 PM
Looks like it's going to be just 5 Million fish. Slight improvement over 2017. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 28, 2019, 02:05:40 PM
To the vedder we go!

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html?fbclid=IwAR20KEm25CeBDWXXG0b2TweUv9On_yC3oTOT_C4biaCQcPRKupYuyMWNiQA
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on August 28, 2019, 02:17:25 PM
To the vedder we go!

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html?fbclid=IwAR20KEm25CeBDWXXG0b2TweUv9On_yC3oTOT_C4biaCQcPRKupYuyMWNiQA

unfortunately
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 28, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
unfortunately

The beavers are gonna be busy taking out the fishing boundary signs at the mouth
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 28, 2019, 04:39:42 PM
The beavers are gonna be busy taking out the fishing boundary signs at the mouth

The boudry marker is brutal. Its only on one tree now. How is a newcomer going to know if the line is on an angle or straight across. You would think someone would get their act together and put up some proper signage
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: canoeboy on August 28, 2019, 07:06:33 PM
I thought it was going to be a gong show before ......Now that retention is on the table  :o
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 28, 2019, 08:25:15 PM
I wonder if the pike minnow demonstration fishery had anything to do with them adding retention to Vedder Pinks. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on August 29, 2019, 01:19:00 PM
Just spoke to someone relatively high up at Pacific DFO.

There is a possibility of a rec pink opening in the lower Fraser.

The opening depends on the PSC report on the estimated return due out Friday.
The estimate would have to be at the P75 level or higher (7.4M fish).

The paperwork couldn't be done by Friday for an opening so it would be Tuesday/Wednesday next week.

This would also probably mean a commercial opening but I'll take what I can get.

Edit: website for the PSC report: https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on August 29, 2019, 01:54:32 PM
Oh my goodness, are we going to exceed the low abundance exploitation rate for sockeye salmon in that case? lol...
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 29, 2019, 02:13:52 PM
Just spoke to someone relatively high up at Pacific DFO.

There is a possibility of a rec pink opening in the lower Fraser.

The opening depends on the PSC report on the estimated return due out Friday.
The estimate would have to be at the P75 level or higher (7.4M fish).

The paperwork couldn't be done by Friday for an opening so it would be Tuesday/Wednesday next week.

This would also probably mean a commercial opening but I'll take what I can get.

Edit: website for the PSC report: https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/

It's a long shot but itll definitely be good news. I know pretty much everyone who fishes from a boat at the mouth of the Summas loves to chase them in from low tide. With access in the Fraser portion, itll definitely be a game changer.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 29, 2019, 03:03:36 PM
Based on the test fisheries the last few days, I think it will remain at P50 unfortunately.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 29, 2019, 03:08:49 PM
Oh my goodness, are we going to exceed the low abundance exploitation rate for sockeye salmon in that case? lol...

like cultus lake sockeye the bigger the pink run the odds of encountering a sockeye lower at least that's what they used to say about cultus lake sockeye.

However as Fic says the marine catches have took a noise dive so I don't see them managing it for the P75 forecast will probably be p50.  If marine catches don't pick up we may even see a downgrade.

Still if there was ever a bone to toss to us the lower fraser pink fishery would be it. Man i hope
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 29, 2019, 03:54:07 PM
It's a long shot but itll definitely be good news. I know pretty much everyone who fishes from a boat at the mouth of the Summas loves to chase them in from low tide. With access in the Fraser portion, itll definitely be a game changer.

The rumor says it would be a below mission bridge opening
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 29, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
Confirmed with DFO there is no openings planned. Rumours are simply untrue

Sorry 😐

Also FYI they may downgrade the pink run tomorrow
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: mikeyman on August 30, 2019, 05:03:15 AM
Downgrade the pink run? There are lots out at the mouth. Cant keep them off while looking for springs right now.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 30, 2019, 06:23:08 AM
most of the South Coast runs have done better than 2017 and it appears that for some, like the Squamish, like Indian Arm, the later components of those runs have been stronger than the earlier.

So if they downgrade it it still may come back at better than the p50 forecast.

It also looks like no one expects it to be less and a return of 5 million fish is 60% better than what came back in 2017.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 30, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
Downgrade the pink run? There are lots out at the mouth. Cant keep them off while looking for springs right now.

Officially  downgraded.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 30, 2019, 04:25:09 PM
Interesting they felt there are enough pinks in the Vedder and Harrison to support a rec fishery.  Is it because the Vedder and Harrison are hatchery enhanced?  Wondering how the chum fishery will turn out this year.  Last year they shut down the Stave for retention but allowed them to stay open the Vedder.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on August 30, 2019, 04:27:34 PM
Interesting they felt there are enough pinks in the Vedder and Harrison to support a rec fishery.  Is it because the Vedder and Harrison are hatchery enhanced? 

it has nothing to do with the run size and everything to do with the fact that there are some first nation bands on the fraser that have not even harvested 1 salmon this year.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on August 30, 2019, 04:31:47 PM
Interesting they felt there are enough pinks in the Vedder and Harrison to support a rec fishery.  Is it because the Vedder and Harrison are hatchery enhanced?  Wondering how the chum fishery will turn out this year.  Last year they shut down the Stave for retention but allowed them to stay open the Vedder.
This certainly looks 100% like a calculated political move to keep the rec sector (including guides) happy while not having to give any exploitation of Fraser sockeye stocks to rec or commercial sectors.  I can't imagine DFO has any idea how many pinks are returning to the Vedder this year - it is far too early to estimate the run and as far as I know they don't have any methods in place to do that.  And I don't think there is any hatchery enhancement of pinks or chum in the Chilliwack or Harrison systems any more.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 30, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
The Chilliwack I understand. The boudry is a bit inside the river. You would think fish that go past that line are destined for that system. The Harrison however is not the same. The boudry is right at the mouth. It's even open to Chinook retention ( for now ) in that area as of Sept 1st. How many spawning Pinks and Chinnook pop into that boundary just for a rest ? I imagine folks will be plunking from a boat. I know I'll be come Sept 1st.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 30, 2019, 08:52:17 PM
This certainly looks 100% like a calculated political move to keep the rec sector (including guides) happy while not having to give any exploitation of Fraser sockeye stocks to rec or commercial sectors.  I can't imagine DFO has any idea how many pinks are returning to the Vedder this year - it is far too early to estimate the run and as far as I know they don't have any methods in place to do that.  And I don't think there is any hatchery enhancement of pinks or chum in the Chilliwack or Harrison systems any more.

wrongo all the way down.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on August 30, 2019, 09:22:52 PM
wrongo all the way down.
At least partly - I found the data for 2017 releases and I see that the Chehalis produces some pink fry, but I don't see any hatchery production of pinks in the Chedder.  I'm not sure what in particular you disagree with otherwise - the politics of this opening, or do you know of some active sampling/counting of pinks in the Vedder to know what the return will be?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 30, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
wrongo all the way down.

Ralph is right on this one.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: purple monster on August 31, 2019, 09:20:24 AM
Interesting they felt there are enough pinks in the Vedder and Harrison to support a rec fishery.  Is it because the Vedder and Harrison are hatchery enhanced?  Wondering how the chum fishery will turn out this year.  Last year they shut down the Stave for retention but allowed them to stay open the Vedder.

Can anyone tell me why there is no opening for pink above the Hwy 7 bridge on Harrison?  Has it always been excluded from the freshwater salmon supplement??
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 31, 2019, 10:41:47 AM
Can anyone tell me why there is no opening for pink above the Hwy 7 bridge on Harrison?  Has it always been excluded from the freshwater salmon supplement??

I cant tell you why all I can say is, it's been like that for a while now. The last two cycles it was from what I recall.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on August 31, 2019, 11:57:10 AM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=2ahUKEwil9J2I463kAhWJnp4KHZ73DowQFjABegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.psc.org%2Fdownload%2F32%2Ffrp-annual-reports%2F7605%2F2015-frp-annual-report.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2CkEF8rApiw55URwdysQpi

Compared to the 2015 Fraser pink run, the post-season was estimate 5,779,000.  Hopefully in a couple of years 2021, we'll be back up to the long term average of around 8 million fish.  With no commercial nor rec fishery on the Fraser, we'll hopefully get just as many spawners this time around compared to 2015.  There should be plenty of fish for everybody on the Vedder and Harrison.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on August 31, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
Can anyone tell me why there is no opening for pink above the Hwy 7 bridge on Harrison?  Has it always been excluded from the freshwater salmon supplement??

It was never open above Cabin Point. In other odd year cycles the boundary was the CPR Bridge.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on August 31, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
Lots of boats in the Sumas today. A buddy of mine is oit there now.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 03, 2019, 10:31:35 AM
Starting to come up in numbers now. Would be lights out on the fraser  :-[

27-Aug 59,300
28-Aug 65,800
29-Aug 76,500
30-Aug 93,800
31-Aug 121,100
01-Sep 131,100
02-Sep 273,300
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 03, 2019, 10:38:29 AM
Starting to come up in numbers now. Would be lights out on the fraser  :-[

27-Aug 59,300
28-Aug 65,800
29-Aug 76,500
30-Aug 93,800
31-Aug 121,100
01-Sep 131,100
02-Sep 273,300

200+ caught in one set in the lower fraser its loaded. What a shame and the one group that is allowed to fish for FSC tosses them out with the trash.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 03, 2019, 10:49:13 AM
Cottonwood single test sets for pinks.

29-Aug-19 132
30-Aug-19 75
31-Aug-19 113

01-Sep-19 362
02-Sep-19 219

Spring are also in the double digits daily.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 03, 2019, 10:50:31 AM
Cottonwood single test sets for pinks.

29-Aug-19 132
30-Aug-19 75
31-Aug-19 113

01-Sep-19 362
02-Sep-19 219

Spring are also in the double digits daily.

ITs pretty sad tho when the test has caught more chinook then sockeye.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: SALMONRULE on September 03, 2019, 11:51:52 AM
im gonna go fishing for pinks in the Fraser in a bit , il be fishing the coquitlam area of the fraser. peak tide was at 10 am this morning , is it worth going out and fishing rn ?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 03, 2019, 01:08:09 PM
I just got back from fishing the incoming tide in the Sumas. I counted 4 other boats. 5 total. We lost 4 fish and kept one. I didnt see many caught. Probably 7 ? Didnt see  whole lot of fish either. Very very slow compared to past years. I did see a few Springs in the Fraser in the clear water of the Sumas. Lots of Pinks as well. A few boats did cast lines I to the Fraser past the boundary.

That's all I got.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 03, 2019, 01:12:34 PM
I just got back from fishing the incoming tide in the Sumas. I counted 4 other boats. 5 total. We lost 4 fish and kept one. I didnt see many caught. Probably 7 ? Didnt see  whole lot of fish either. Very very slow compared to past years. I did see a few Springs in the Fraser in the clear water of the Sumas. Lots of Pinks as well. A few boats did cast lines I to the Fraser past the boundary.

That's all I got.

very slow compared to the same time two years ago??
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on September 03, 2019, 02:56:55 PM
im gonna go fishing for pinks in the Fraser in a bit , il be fishing the coquitlam area of the fraser. peak tide was at 10 am this morning , is it worth going out and fishing rn ?

So is this a protest fishery? Are we allowed C/R or you have to catch pinks on pikeminnow setup? LOL !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 03, 2019, 03:07:19 PM
So is this a protest fishery? Are we allowed C/R or you have to catch pinks on pikeminnow setup? LOL !

Pikeminnows go after a red croc. to that end i say go out and fish for pikeminnows.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 03, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
very slow compared to the same time two years ago??

Last cycle in the same spot was better.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 03, 2019, 03:54:01 PM
For Pinks in the Fraser my fishing diary entries go back to the early 90s and I usually found the middle of Sept to the end of the month  the best time for the Fraser above Mission and inthe Vedder. Often the big push up the Fraser was around Sept 10th. Fishing a week or so before that was usually slow. Back in the 80s I recall very large number of Pinks in the Vedder/Chilliwack in early to mid October & later. Within the last 10 to 15 years it was usually done by Thanksgiving. In 2013 I caught nice chrome pinks around the Cottonwoods on Labour Day. I was out last Thursday and didn't see a fish in the lower river. I saw one small school in the canal today. The weather has been dry and hot. I measured the temperature at 65F at about 830 this morning. The river gauge us showing a rise of 4C by early afternoon. With low water and warm temperatures the fish may be staying out in the Fraser or what fish are below the Sumas confluence are fish going up the Fraser but moving into the lower part of the Sumas. This is common on other rivers like the Harrison.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 03, 2019, 05:24:26 PM
For Pinks in the Fraser my fishing diary entries go back to the early 90s and I usually found the middle of Sept to the end of the month  the best time for the Fraser above Mission and inthe Vedder. Often the big push up the Fraser was around Sept 10th. Fishing a week or so before that was usually slow. Back in the 80s I recall very large number of Pinks in the Vedder/Chilliwack in early to mid October & later. Within the last 10 to 15 years it was usually done by Thanksgiving. In 2013 I caught nice chrome pinks around the Cottonwoods on Labour Day. I was out last Thursday and didn't see a fish in the lower river. I saw one small school in the canal today. The weather has been dry and hot. I measured the temperature at 65F at about 830 this morning. The river gauge us showing a rise of 4C by early afternoon. With low water and warm temperatures the fish may be staying out in the Fraser or what fish are below the Sumas confluence are fish going up the Fraser but moving into the lower part of the Sumas. This is common on other rivers like the Harrison.

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Robert_G on September 03, 2019, 05:44:14 PM
The only ones worth eating that are caught around Chilliwack or above are harvested before the 15th of September....even earlier some years. They used to open pinks in August....would catch some down by the Vedder mouth....they were in fantastic shape.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 03, 2019, 06:29:13 PM
The only ones worth eating that are caught around Chilliwack or above are harvested before the 15th of September....even earlier some years. They used to open pinks in August....would catch some down by the Vedder mouth....they were in fantastic shape.

I was surprised to see such small fish. I even saw a few zombie pinks swimming around. I caught and lost one fresh dose but lost it. All the Pinks we caught were very very small
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 04, 2019, 12:13:44 AM
It's still very early. Typically we don't see that big surge of fish passing Steveston until the 5th or 6th of September. Tributaries like the Vedder don't really see the high abundance of fish until the 10th. There are some fish in the river already, just very scattered out.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: matrix111 on September 04, 2019, 01:30:27 PM
Is Derby Reach still closed for fishing Pinks? I am looking at the regs and is a little confusing.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on September 04, 2019, 01:41:31 PM
Pikeminnows go after a red croc. to that end i say go out and fish for pikeminnows.

LOL. Is there anywhere in the fishery notices that say you can't use spoons or lures for pikeminnows? That itch of casting or testing a lure at tidal Fraser is strong this time of the year. LOL.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 04, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
LOL. Is there anywhere in the fishery notices that say you can't use spoons or lures for pikeminnows? That itch of casting or testing a lure at tidal Fraser is strong this time of the year. LOL.

The fishing notice state that fishing for salmon is closed, You may fish for pikeminnows anyway you like. I think trout fishing is also open below the mission bridge.

Rods website even states that crocs are a good way to catch pike minnows this time of year


"https://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/estuary_fishing/tidal_fraser_river_light_spincasting.html"

"The presence of northern pikeminnow is quite the opposite to trout and char. Large northern pikeminnow become active in August when freshet recedes and remain abundant until early October."

"Terminal tackle required in this technique is minimal. A box filled with spoons and spinners is your ticket to a fun fishing outing. Lures that are commonly productive include Gibbs' Croc and Koho. Small spinners can easily be made with blades, bodies and beads, which are readily available at tacklestores. Catching fish on homemade lures brings more joy than using store-bought lures. Lure sizes and colours vary based on water conditions. All colours would produce fish, but water clarity may alter catch results. It is best to experiment and document the results in a fishing journal for future references. 1/8oz and 1/4oz are the best lure weights, but larger spoons tend to produce more bull trout while the chance of catching a cutthroat trout is bigger with smaller spinners."
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 04, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
There's nothing stopping you from tossing a 1/4oz Croc in both the tidal and non-tidal portions of the Fraser River for northern pikeminnow. I used to do it all the time and it's how you'd target bigger ones without hooking the smaller ones frequently.

If Fisheries and Oceans Canada is not interested in considering selective angling methods as a management tool, then non-selective angling methods are not a concern when targeting the species you'd like to catch.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 04, 2019, 02:43:40 PM
Some really good  numbers in the river sets so far. More than tripple caught yesterday compared to last cycle same day. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 04, 2019, 04:18:08 PM
Some really good  numbers in the river sets so far. More than tripple caught yesterday compared to last cycle same day.

Is it possible to bring a 2.5hp 10' pram to fish Sumas?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 04, 2019, 05:47:57 PM
Is it possible to bring a 2.5hp 10' pram to fish Sumas?

Launch at Barrowtown yes.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: halcyonguitars on September 04, 2019, 06:12:07 PM
Would you eat a pike from the Fraser?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: DanL on September 04, 2019, 06:15:47 PM
Suspicious DFO Officer - "I see you're fishing the Fraser. How are you making out today?"

FWR members - "Terrible! I'm hoping to catch my favorite species, the legendary pikeminnow but the only thing biting are these stupid pinks..."
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
Looking at yesterday in river sets (613), this run is by far 4x times larger ( at least the river sets ) than 2017. It looks like DFO has underestimated this years run. Am I wrong ? It's looking very good. I admit I do not know a whole lot about how they get their estimates but I have a little understanding. The numbers are just thru the roof.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 05, 2019, 09:25:46 AM
Looking at yesterday in river sets (613), this run is by far 4x times larger ( at least the river sets ) than 2017. It looks like DFO has underestimated this years run. Am I wrong ? It's looking very good. I admit I do not know a whole lot about how they get their estimates but I have a little understanding. The numbers are just thru the roof.

I don't know about 4X, It does seem to be a strong run, ITs eather early, They are all migrating in a narrow window or its a strong run. Here's some data a crunch for you!  Kinda bonkers its closed on the fraser.  Its still a bit early to do a good comparision as it seems this test usually peaks around september 10-15.

(https://i.imgur.com/zUbf76i.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/nRnPyrE.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 05, 2019, 10:13:04 AM
I've never fished the sumas before nor have I caught a pink salmon before. Took my son and nephew out to the vedder on monday and we didn't see much other than a few schools of suckers. Must have been in the wrong place.

Is the sumas better with a boat? What's the preferred way to target pinks in there? Trolling? anchoring up and casting? I can't seem to find much info online about the preferred techniques to use there. Would love to get them into some fish before the run is over.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wookie on September 05, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
cast and retreive!  lures, jigs or flies.....
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wookie on September 05, 2019, 10:43:39 AM
Also, would anyone think running down the sumas canal with electric would be too risky?  Aside from having jets blast past every 15 mins.......
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: clarki on September 05, 2019, 11:50:00 AM
Also, would anyone think running down the sumas canal with electric would be too risky?  Aside from having jets blast past every 15 mins.......
Recommend paying attention to the tides. Normal river current, coupled with the additional current caused by a dropping tide, may be a bit much for your rig if motoring upstream.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 01:44:05 PM
Another river report

I just got back from the Sumas mouth. Fished the incoming tides this morning. Not a lot of action INSIDE the Sumas. There were 5 boats in the Fraser fishing the dirty water line. They were slaying them. Pinks rolling everywhere on the line. We took our one Pink we netted and caught some Sturgeon. I was just surprised 5 boats ( 16 people total ) had the balls to fish for Salmon in the Fraser. Crazy.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 05, 2019, 02:26:19 PM
I would phone the ORR line on all the boats fishing outside the boundary and retaining pink salmon.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 05, 2019, 02:30:15 PM
From Facebook


The FRSA would like to remind all anglers to pay attention to where the fishing boundary at the confluence of the Chilliwack/Vedder/Sumas River with the Fraser is, and that all salmon recreational fishing remains closed in the Fraser River.

The Chilliwack/Vedder River boundaries are:

"from a line between two fishing boundary signs on either side of the Chilliwack River 100 m from the confluence of the Chilliwack River and Slesse Creek downstream including that portion of the Sumas River from the Barrow Town Pump Station downstream to fishing boundary signs near the confluence with the Fraser River."

If you observe individuals fishing for salmon illegally outside of that boundary in the Fraser River, please use the DFO's ORR line.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 03:04:57 PM
I would phone the ORR line on all the boats fishing outside the boundary and retaining pink salmon.

I did when we got into reception. Theres little to no reception almost as soon as you turn into the Sumas. My friend who I with today said there were more than 15 boats in the Fraser on the weekend fishing for Pinks.

Same as it was last cycle. It was the same stuff. It's almost like DFO knows and does nothing about it. It wasnt enforced last cycle. People fished in the Fraser then a week later they opened it up to C&R.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 05, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
31-Aug 125,100
01-Sep 131,900
02-Sep 273,200
03-Sep 472,500
04-Sep 657,300

Wowww over 1.1 million pinks passed thru mission in the past 2 days. Highest day last cycle was 296,700 and only 4 days over 200,000
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 05, 2019, 04:13:30 PM
31-Aug 125,100
01-Sep 131,900
02-Sep 273,200
03-Sep 472,500
04-Sep 657,300

Wowww over 1.1 million pinks passed thru mission in the past 2 days. Highest day last cycle was 296,700 and only 4 days over 200,000

Wonder if they will adjust the in-season estimates upwards tomorrow based on this.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 04:14:53 PM
31-Aug 125,100
01-Sep 131,900
02-Sep 273,200
03-Sep 472,500
04-Sep 657,300

Wowww over 1.1 million pinks passed thru mission in the past 2 days. Highest day last cycle was 296,700 and only 4 days over 200,000

It is pretty good out there. We saw one giant massive blob of Pinks in Chilliwack today on the Fraser. It was never ending. We saw them jumping all over when Sturgeon fishing as well as outside the Nicomen slough where we launched. Jusy everywhere. FAR more than last cycle.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 05, 2019, 04:20:58 PM
It is pretty good out there. We saw one giant massive blob of Pinks in Chilliwack today on the Fraser. It was never ending. We saw them jumping all over when Sturgeon fishing as well as outside the Nicomen slough where we launched. Jusy everywhere. FAR more than last cycle.

Why don't them enter the river?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 05:07:00 PM
Why don't them enter the river?

The Nicomen ? I assume this what you're talking about. There is no Nicomen run from what I know
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on September 05, 2019, 05:14:49 PM
Why don't them enter the river?
Be patient. The fish passing by Chilliwack are mostly destined for up the Fraser further. The Chilliwack pinks are on the way. Any day will be a big push.. as others have stated over and over and over.. Sept 10 to 15th it gets good generally.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Gil_Tea on September 05, 2019, 05:59:00 PM
I walked over the train bridge and hooked into 3, landed 1 while the tide was changing. Seriously slowed down after that but they are there. Should be pretty good this weekend.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 05, 2019, 06:12:02 PM
I walked over the train bridge and hooked into 3, landed 1 while the tide was changing. Seriously slowed down after that but they are there. Should be pretty good this weekend.

It's going to be a gong show this weekend.

Also, I saw a couple in a kayak right on the tip of the sandy edge where the Fraser meets the Sumas today. I assume they paddled down from Barrowtown
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Gil_Tea on September 05, 2019, 08:15:58 PM
It's going to be a gong show this weekend.

Also, I saw a couple in a kayak right on the tip of the sandy edge where the Fraser meets the Sumas today. I assume they paddled down from Barrowtown

Good thing I just got my gong polished, shes a beauty. I saw a few Kayakers fishing when I was down there, I am guessing it still beats walking.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on September 05, 2019, 09:18:04 PM
This is the Fraser thread, right?  ;D  Anyway, I hope the Vedder is a mess this weekend, as I think most people will be blanked and will give up for a couple of weeks.  Thankfully there haven't been many inspiring pics on social media to get people out there.  I for one hope there are are enough pinks to make the coho less spooky but not enough to be a nuisance. 

And, yes, I agree, the big push of pinks in the Fraser right now is likely headed for upriver.  In my experience, the farther upriver the pinks travel, the earlier they enter the river.  I have caught and seen many pinks in Hope around this time in September.  Hopefully these pinks are full of an extra bit of spunk this year that gets them past the slide.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 06, 2019, 08:14:32 AM
Lol how is pink closed look at the whonnack catch yesterday lol.

Crazy
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 06, 2019, 08:38:32 AM
Lol how is pink closed look at the whonnack catch yesterday lol.

Crazy

902 in river sets yesterday. WOW !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 06, 2019, 09:16:44 AM
Hit another high yesterday Passage at Mission. 

31-Aug    125,100
01-Sep    131,900
02-Sep    273,200
03-Sep    472,500
04-Sep    656,000
05-Sep    671,600

Cumulative YTD passage is 2,957,600.  More than 1/2 way to the 5 Million estimate.  5 Million may be too low.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 06, 2019, 09:25:57 AM
Its still possible the run could come under but its looking fairly unlikely, The marine catches did shut off like a light bulb. Its possible there is a large number in a short migration window.

even if we get something like this over the next 4 days

06-Sep    650 000
07-Sep    500 000
08-Sep    400 000
09-Sep    250 000

We will be pretty close to the 5 million mark so it sure does seem like we will pass it , Even if you assume today is the peak and it will peter off like it started we would be looking at 6 million fish and that does not include the fish the americans already caught.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 06, 2019, 09:40:22 AM
In 2013 the test fisheries stayed strong into the last half of Sept. The largest single day was Sept 19th at 601 for Whonnock. The Mission Hydroacoustic shows that the major push of fish up the river is now underway. The esitmates for the last couple of days are more than 10 times the daily average of the last 10 days of August.

Is it possible the marine test catches have underestimated the number of pinks?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 06, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Is it possible the marine test catches have underestimated the number of pinks?
The fish got smart and migrated through at night when the boats were docked  ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 06, 2019, 09:54:48 AM
In 2013 the test fisheries stayed strong into the last half of Sept. The largest single day was Sept 19th at 601 for Whonnock. The Mission Hydroacoustic shows that the major push of fish up the river is now underway. The esitmates for the last couple of days are more than 10 times the daily average of the last 10 days of August.

Is it possible the marine test catches have underestimated the number of pinks?

I would say its very possible and still hearing about guys catching the odd pink in area 20.  Seines chase around schools, So they can be heroes or bust.  in 2013 the numbers sharply ended but if i recall i think they had the seine fleet out hammering them that was my experience on the water think catchers were still strong in river.  If you recall the seine catches last year over estimated the sockeye return.

seems stronger then the last two cycles, the south arm pinks really have slowed down so maybe we are seeing just one last big push but still think its going to be closer to 6 million then 5.

According to the PSC latest report they say the pink run was early this year Area 20 timing adopted in-season 17/Aug Area 20 timing expected pre-season  28/Aug

https://www.psc.org/download/598/2019/11882/august-30-2019.pdf

IT should also get updated today around 4pm so will see if they change things around.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: DanL on September 06, 2019, 11:25:33 AM
In 2013 the test fisheries stayed strong into the last half of Sept.

That seems to be generally true every cycle. test fisheries typically start taking off about now (Labour Day) and start tapering off around/after the 3rd week of Sept.

I havent been following this year's numbers too closely but if it starts to wind down next week that would be very atypical compared to historical results.

If we're already at 3M and it follows the typically expected timing, the final numbers will be far above 5M. That would be nice to see for a change, as in recent years the various sockeye/pink returns seem to fall below the p50 far more often than they exceed it...
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 06, 2019, 01:18:43 PM
Apparently these fish are not strong enough to make it pass that big rock slide.  They need to do many trips to haul these fish up in trucks.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/salmon-now-passing-through-fraser-river-slide-on-their-own-dfo-says-1.4579399
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 06, 2019, 02:11:03 PM
Interesting that they admit catches are above average but have not changed the run size and therefore there is no TAC for fisheries.


"Sockeye catches in the Fraser River gill net test fisheries have continued to
decline in recent days while Pink catches have remained above average with
highs of 362 on September 1 at Cottonwood and 737 on September 5 at Whonnock.
Due to the abundance of Pink salmon in-river the daily Sockeye escapement
estimates have been generated from the Whonnock test fishery catch information
rather than the normal hydroacoustic estimates since August 20. "



"During the Panel meeting today the run size for Pink salmon remained unchanged
at 5,000,000 with Area 20 timing of August 17. At this run size the
international TAC is reduced to a level where no additional US fisheries would
be considered. As well, given the uncertainty in the Pink run size, the limited
amount of commercial TAC identified is insufficient to initiate commercial or
recreational fisheries directed on Fraser Pink salmon in Canada. First Nations
fisheries for FSC purposes will continue to be considered at this time for Pink
salmon. Unless the Pink run size increases in the near future there will be no
directed commercial or recreational fisheries for Fraser Pink salmon this year.
The Pink run size will be reassessed on Tuesdays Panel call."

https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225208&ID=all
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 06, 2019, 02:27:08 PM
Interesting that they admit catches are above average but have not changed the run size and therefore there is no TAC for fisheries.


"Sockeye catches in the Fraser River gill net test fisheries have continued to
decline in recent days while Pink catches have remained above average with
highs of 362 on September 1 at Cottonwood and 737 on September 5 at Whonnock.
Due to the abundance of Pink salmon in-river the daily Sockeye escapement
estimates have been generated from the Whonnock test fishery catch information
rather than the normal hydroacoustic estimates since August 20. "



"During the Panel meeting today the run size for Pink salmon remained unchanged
at 5,000,000 with Area 20 timing of August 17. At this run size the
international TAC is reduced to a level where no additional US fisheries would
be considered. As well, given the uncertainty in the Pink run size, the limited
amount of commercial TAC identified is insufficient to initiate commercial or
recreational fisheries directed on Fraser Pink salmon in Canada. First Nations
fisheries for FSC purposes will continue to be considered at this time for Pink
salmon. Unless the Pink run size increases in the near future there will be no
directed commercial or recreational fisheries for Fraser Pink salmon this year.
The Pink run size will be reassessed on Tuesdays Panel call."

https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225208&ID=all

Same as last cycle. It was slightly higher than the p50 and they never adjusted it. It's all politics.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 06, 2019, 04:16:55 PM
It would be awkward for the machines to count 6+ million and keep the official count at 5 million.   ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 06, 2019, 04:23:42 PM
In 2017 the P50 was 8.7 million, the first in season forecast was 4.8 million then downgraded to 3.7 million a week later (Sept 8th) . Actual passage passed Mission was 3.4 million. TAC was about 200k.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 06, 2019, 05:32:22 PM
In 2017 the P50 was 8.7 million, the first in season forecast was 4.8 million then downgraded to 3.7 million a week later (Sept 8th) . Actual passage passed Mission was 3.4 million. TAC was about 200k.

I did not mind sitting out the 2017 season as numbers we’re poor this yeah just not seeing it
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 07, 2019, 09:41:40 AM
816 between Cottonwood and Whonnok yesterday. Great numbers !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 07, 2019, 10:20:16 AM
816 between Cottonwood and Whonnok yesterday. Great numbers !
The Mission Passage Test didn't get updated yet. But based on these Gillnet sets, it looks like it'll be around another 600K pinks
So total is 3.5 Million as of yesterday.  Today, we probably exceed all of the 2017 Pinks that made it past Mission.  Interesting it's not falling off the cliff like it did in area 20.  Did a bunch of seals chase away the pinks away form the test fishery ships there?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 07, 2019, 10:40:35 AM
The Mission Passage Test didn't get updated yet. But based on these Gillnet sets, it looks like it'll be around another 600K pinks
So total is 3.5 Million as of yesterday.  Today, we probably exceed all of the 2017 Pinks that made it past Mission.  Interesting it's not falling off the cliff like it did in area 20.  Did a bunch of seals chase away the pinks away form the test fishery ships there?

Itll pass 5mil for sure. 6mil ? Maybe. If everything keeps moving forward 2021 will be fantastic. Who knows how many we would returned if the US fleet never had an opening.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 07, 2019, 11:56:46 AM
in the perspective of the last 30+ years 5 to 6 million is not a big return. The median return since 1990 or so was about 12 million.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 07, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
in the perspective of the last 30+ years 5 to 6 million is not a big return. The median return since 1990 or was about 12 million.

I realize that since I can easily see the numbers online. I am simply comparing to last cycle.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on September 08, 2019, 09:28:22 AM
Why did the daily Pink Salmon past Mission count stop being posted/recorded online the last few days?? Seems pretty odd that the numbers were starting to point towards the run being much greater than 5 million and then they coincidentally stopped posting the numbers? Or am I looking at the wrong website?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2019, 10:54:39 AM
if you are looking at the PSC reports such as the Mission Hydro-acoustic counts, they are not done on weekends and it isn't unusual for them not to be posted daily during the week.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 08, 2019, 11:08:28 AM
It's clearly a conspiracy. ;)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on September 08, 2019, 11:13:58 AM
if you are looking at the PSC reports such as the Mission Hydro-acoustic counts, they are not done on weekends and it isn't unusual for them not to be posted daily during the week.

Yes I am looking at the PSC hyrdoacoustic pink counts. It looks like they have counted weekends up until now? https://www.psc.org/download/130/frp-data/11861/pink-passage-summary-pdf.pdf (https://www.psc.org/download/130/frp-data/11861/pink-passage-summary-pdf.pdf)

Unless you meant they will post the weekend count during the week. They haven't posted Friday, Saturday, or today (Sunday) yet.

It's clearly a conspiracy. ;)

Haha, I mean, I was joking of course but I also wouldn't be surprised these days!  ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 08, 2019, 11:47:24 AM
Top of the report says it may not be updated daily during mass migration.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2019, 11:56:39 AM
Quote
Unless you meant they will post the weekend count during the week. They haven't posted Friday, Saturday, or today (Sunday) yet.

uh yeah I think that's what I meant, but like I might be part of the great DFO/FN anti-sportie conspiracy?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2019, 11:57:35 AM
Top of the report says it may not be updated daily during mass migration.

the mass migration they are referring to is the huge number of DFO staff fleeing the country for fear of their lives! 8)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on September 08, 2019, 12:07:28 PM
uh yeah I think that's what I meant, but like I might be part of the great DFO/FN anti-sportie conspiracy?

It's not a conspiracy though, we already know that FN/Comm want fish before sporties, and that the DFO facilitates that want ;D.

I meant a conspiracy about the pink numbers not being reported because the run is looking to be larger than expected yet we all know because of the politics mentioned above we won't get a sport opening. My intention was to stir the pot, and it looks like you bit  :D.

Its also an interesting idea that we're "sporties" but what about people who just want to harvest some Salmon to eat? I wouldn't consider that a sport but sustenance off the land :).

I'm happy the pink run is looking so good... not all doom and gloom!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 08, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
Yes I am looking at the PSC hyrdoacoustic pink counts. It looks like they have counted weekends up until now? https://www.psc.org/download/130/frp-data/11861/pink-passage-summary-pdf.pdf (https://www.psc.org/download/130/frp-data/11861/pink-passage-summary-pdf.pdf)

Unless you meant they will post the weekend count during the week. They haven't posted Friday, Saturday, or today (Sunday) yet.

Haha, I mean, I was joking of course but I also wouldn't be surprised these days!  ;D

As someone who have looked at the PSC reports daily for more than the last few years. The counts usually always get updated on tuesday and friday and then sporadically during the week.

Lots jumping at Sandheads yesterday and I release a big 6-7 pound male that put up a great fight.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2019, 02:24:02 PM
It's not a conspiracy though, we already know that FN/Comm want fish before sporties, and that the DFO facilitates that want ;D.

they, as in DFO, has to by law.
Quote

I meant a conspiracy about the pink numbers not being reported because the run is looking to be larger than expected yet we all know because of the politics mentioned above we won't get a sport opening. My intention was to stir the pot, and it looks like you bit  :D.

Sure thing dude! Lots of people believe anything.

BTW those who say "X" is all politics, engage in politics.

Quote
I'm happy the pink run is looking so good... not all doom and gloom!

The pink run is not 'good'. It looks to be well below average. That's not good. Many are just stuck in a gold rush mentality.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Jk47 on September 08, 2019, 03:02:04 PM

The pink run is not 'good'. It looks to be well below average. That's not good. Many are just stick in a gold rush mentality.
"Like"
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 08, 2019, 03:08:20 PM
IT is below average but based on past data that i've looked at if we harvested a million pinks this year it won't make a big difference in the returns from two years from now.

The fluctuation in pinks is rather dramatic from what ive seen. 12 million escapement and 16 million return,. 5 million escapement then 22 million return ect... or even vice versa 10 million escarpment at 5 million return. Escapement is after the harvest.

So it sure does look like there is some room to have a few fisheries considering will probably have about 6 million return.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: AaronWilde on September 08, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
they, as in DFO, has to by law.
Sure thing dude! Lots of people believe anything.

BTW those who say "X" is all politics, engage in politics.

The pink run is not 'good'. It looks to be well below average. That's not good. Many are just stick in a gold rush mentality.

Whats your point about politics? Should I not call it what it is? The current situation is politics and yes I engage politics, so what? Is one who uses the word not supposed to engage in it lol?

Gold rush mentality? I would say poachers have a gold rush mentality. Im 28 and have only fished passionately for maybe 5 years. I guess I dont know what good is. This run seems decent if the numbers continue like they have this past week. Below average if it indeed is 5 million. Seems it could be much more though?

 I think its good that any return at all after the history of this place. Forgive me for wanting to fish for some scraps that the older generations raped haha.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 08, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
In 5 passionate years you've learned to think and talk like almost everyone else. Way to go!

Quote
if we harvested a million pinks this year it won't make a big difference in the returns from two years from now.

true. Escapement and returns in the next cycle don't correlate that well but then 'We' likely won't harvest a million. The Fraser will remain closed until Nov 1st. That won't change.


Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 09, 2019, 09:22:44 AM
At 4 million escapement and declining fast.

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 09, 2019, 09:32:22 AM
So the 5 Million estimate is probably pretty accurate after all.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 09, 2019, 09:39:31 AM
So the 5 Million estimate is probably pretty accurate after all.

Well Total run size we are already at 4.25 million if you include catch.  MY guess is tho they will keep it at 5 million as if there were to raise it it would trigger fisheries.  Is going to be above 5 million but will see by how much.

https://www.psc.org/download/598/2019/11889/september-6-2019-2.pdf
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 09, 2019, 10:15:59 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/7tPgFqr/20190909-083731.jpg)

Just got back from the Sumas/Fraser. All these boats are out of bounds. TONS of boats out there today. Gong show. I snapped this picture as we were leaving. I couldn't believe how many guide boats there was.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 09, 2019, 10:28:07 AM
the First fraser FSC opening for pinks i've seen posted

(https://i.imgur.com/DrMksej.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 09, 2019, 10:44:11 AM
the First fraser FSC opening for pinks i've seen posted

(https://i.imgur.com/DrMksej.png)


Yesterday, I saw hundreds fish rolling in the lower fraser. Very pleasing view like in a BBC video. It will diminish as the fk nets out
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sumasriver on September 09, 2019, 10:54:54 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/7tPgFqr/20190909-083731.jpg)

Just got back from the Sumas/Fraser. All these boats are out of bounds. TONS of boats out there today. Gong show. I snapped this picture as we were leaving. I couldn't believe how many guide boats there was.

Paying the big bucks to fish for humpies...... wow.....
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 09, 2019, 11:14:19 AM
Paying the big bucks to fish for humpies...... wow.....

I does not seem like they have many people on their boats probably fishing for sturgeon bait.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 09, 2019, 11:18:26 AM
I does not seem like they have many people on their boats probably fishing for sturgeon bait.

Some had two but never one. Always two or more. Some boats had 5.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: big_fish on September 09, 2019, 11:22:04 AM
I does not seem like they have many people on their boats probably fishing for sturgeon bait.

What do you do for work? Or do you just sit there and analyze everything on the internet?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: armytruck on September 09, 2019, 12:22:46 PM
What do you do for work? Or do you just sit there and analyze everything on the internet?
What do you work for ? Or do you just sit there and wait for someone to take a stab at . ( typical B_F reply ) . Keep up the good work wildmanyeah , nice to share important information to members here that may not know where to look or may give up trying .
 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Tangles on September 09, 2019, 02:44:42 PM
Looking at the totals up to date catches in the test fisheries on the Lower Fraser pinks is mind boggling.
We could've never caught even close to that many if we had a small opening. >:(
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on September 09, 2019, 04:43:42 PM
4 pinks a day in Departure Bay and Nanaimo harbour - FN0824.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=224591&ID=all
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: norm_2 on September 09, 2019, 09:42:15 PM
I too would like to thank wildmanyeah for sharing the statistics because I have no idea how to find them.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 10, 2019, 09:03:48 AM
Most likely, we exceed 5 million pinks today. Not as plentiful as the long term averages like others have posted, but I was fearing worse results after the 2017 cycle.

02-Sep    273,200   HA   1,157,500
03-Sep    472,500   HA   1,630,000
04-Sep    656,000   HA   2,286,000
05-Sep    670,600   HA   2,956,600
06-Sep    419,400   HA   3,376,000
07-Sep    265,500   HA   3,641,500
08-Sep    373,400   HA   4,014,900
09-Sep    616,300   HA   4,631,200

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 10, 2019, 09:06:37 AM
Most likely, we exceed 5 million pinks today. Not as plentiful as the long term averages like others have posted, but I was fearing worse results after the 2017 cycle.

02-Sep    273,200   HA   1,157,500
03-Sep    472,500   HA   1,630,000
04-Sep    656,000   HA   2,286,000
05-Sep    670,600   HA   2,956,600
06-Sep    419,400   HA   3,376,000
07-Sep    265,500   HA   3,641,500
08-Sep    373,400   HA   4,014,900
09-Sep    616,300   HA   4,631,200

Not slowing down yet! Great to see these numbers. I was near the Fraser multiple times over the past couple days and it was amazing to see how many fish were rolling.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 10, 2019, 09:14:17 AM
Most likely, we exceed 5 million pinks today. Not as plentiful as the long term averages like others have posted, but I was fearing worse results after the 2017 cycle.

02-Sep    273,200   HA   1,157,500
03-Sep    472,500   HA   1,630,000
04-Sep    656,000   HA   2,286,000
05-Sep    670,600   HA   2,956,600
06-Sep    419,400   HA   3,376,000
07-Sep    265,500   HA   3,641,500
08-Sep    373,400   HA   4,014,900
09-Sep    616,300   HA   4,631,200

Well we are pretty much there now 4 630 00 + 250k catch = 4 870 000, so yeah probably after todays count will be ahead 5 million and catchers were good in whonnock yesterday. They are meeting today so my guess is there will have to adjust the run size, But will see if they keep it at 5 million for "management purposes" 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 10, 2019, 10:03:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NEL2fEW.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 10, 2019, 10:32:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NEL2fEW.png)

Wicked. It would be nice to see this graph with the Mission HA numbers, which are more accurate. I have the 2017 pinks downloaded but for some reason they dont have archived results on their website. I have emailed them in the past for sockeye HA numbers and they emailed me those.

Edit: I have sent an email to get these numbers
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 10, 2019, 03:16:15 PM
as predicted they refused to change the runsize,


Tuesday, September 10, 2019


The Fraser River Panel met Tuesday, September 10 to receive an update on the migration
of Fraser River sockeye and pink salmon and review the status of migration conditions in the Fraser
River watershed, including an update of the rock slide at Big Bar. The rock slide at Big Bar
continues to be a major source of concern for the Panel as migrating sockeye salmon will need to
pass this area to reach their spawning grounds. There is now evidence of natural passage of sockeye
and pink salmon through the slide area, and as a result helicopter transport of fish above the slide
has halted for the time being.
It is currently estimated that approximately 455,100 sockeye and 4,631,500 pink salmon
have passed the Mission hydroacoustic site. Test fishing catches and daily escapements of sockeye
salmon continue to track well below pre-season forecast expectations. No changes were made to
the sockeye or pink salmon run size or timing.

On September 9 discharge of the Fraser River at Hope was 2,165 cms, which is
approximately 7% below average for this date. The temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark
Creek on September 9 was 18.1
0C, which is 2.50C above average for this date. Fraser River
discharge levels and water temperatures will be monitored closely to determine if specific
management actions are required during the in-river migratory period to help achieve sockeye
escapement goals.
All Panel Area Waters remain closed to commercial salmon fishing.
The next in-season meeting of the Panel is scheduled to occur on Friday, September 13, 2019.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on September 10, 2019, 03:47:47 PM
This whole darn close-down of the recreational fishery on pinks is looking more and more manipulative, unscientific and political. With fish count already in 4.6 million range, they have the gut to LIE about the run size not exceeding 5 million to justify shutting the sporties down. Does DFO even behave like a reasonable institution using science and actual figures to justify their politics motivated decisions? Shame!!!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 10, 2019, 03:52:28 PM
This whole darn close-down of the recreational fishery on pinks is looking more and more manipulative, unscientific and political. With fish count already in 4.6 million range, they have the gut to LIE about the run size not exceeding 5 million to justify shutting the sporties down. Does DFO even behave like a reasonable institution using science and actual figures to justify their politics motivated decisions? Shame!!!

Yep pathathic

https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225321&ID=all

"During the Panel meeting today the run size for Pink salmon remained unchanged
at 5,000,000 with Area 20 timing of August 17. Recent daily escapement
estimates at Mission suggest the run size may be larger but the is significant
uncertainty in the estimates at this time. At this run size no additional US
fisheries would be considered. First Nations fisheries for FSC purposes will
continue to be considered at this time for Pink salmon. Unless the Pink run
size increases in the near future there will be no directed commercial or
recreational fisheries for Fraser Pink salmon in Canada this year. The Pink run
size will be reassessed on Fridays Panel call."
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on September 10, 2019, 04:13:20 PM
This whole darn close-down of the recreational fishery on pinks is looking more and more manipulative, unscientific and political. With fish count already in 4.6 million range, they have the gut to LIE about the run size not exceeding 5 million to justify shutting the sporties down. Does DFO even behave like a reasonable institution using science and actual figures to justify their politics motivated decisions? Shame!!!
I think the treaty has tied their hands on this one - if they open it up to commercial or sport harvest in BC, then US fishers get a bigger take, then the impact on sockeye is that much greater.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 10, 2019, 04:59:03 PM
apologies if this is an uninformed question, but what is stopping them from making the Fraser at the least C&R like the Squamish? 1 per day retention? feels like there is a gradient of choices to make rather than an all-or-nothing dilemma. Is there an email address or phone number where we can voice concerns to the officials making these decisions?

asking as someone who was looking forward to catching my first pink this year and has a difficult time getting to where the current openings are.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 10, 2019, 05:01:35 PM
I think the treaty has tied their hands on this one - if they open it up to commercial or sport harvest in BC, then US fishers get a bigger take, then the impact on sockeye is that much greater.

don't mention sensible explanations for DFO's actions. Some people can't handle it and may become apoplectic.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 10, 2019, 05:04:04 PM
apologies if this is an uninformed question, but what is stopping them from making the Fraser at the least C&R like the Squamish? 1 per day retention? feels like there is a gradient of choices to make rather than an all-or-nothing dilemma. Is there an email address or phone number where we can voice concerns to the officials making these decisions?

asking as someone who was looking forward to catching my first pink this year and has a difficult time getting to where the current openings are.

try catching another salmon. I got a nice spring today. It was much more exciting than the 3 pinks I hooked. Springs also taste better. Pinks are like little bonbons. Fun but the tendency is to eat an entire bag and then realize you got nothing out of it but a stomach ache.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 10, 2019, 05:18:09 PM
try catching another salmon. I got a nice spring today. It was much more exciting than the 3 pinks I hooked. Springs also taste better. Pinks are like little bonbons. Fun but the tendency is to eat an entire bag and then realize you got nothing out of it but a stomach ache.

I'd love to but my little boat won't do too well out in the chuck and I don't think I have the gear for it on the vedder. Sounds like you need much heavier than I have for those boys.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 10, 2019, 06:31:20 PM
Was a typical slaughter show in the Sumas this morning. Nice to see fish caught and people having fun. Even thos they're still fishing illegally. It looks like fun.

BTW I'm blown away at the sea of Pinks at the Sumas /Fraser. Its unbelievable. The entire mud drop off on the west side of the mouth is a sea of Pinks.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 11, 2019, 12:23:23 AM
BTW I'm blown away at the sea of Pinks at the Sumas /Fraser. Its unbelievable. The entire mud drop off on the west side of the mouth is a sea of Pinks.

Because the entire river is closed.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 11, 2019, 11:45:14 AM
Because the entire river is closed.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/PinkKeptCatch.html

Huh?

(https://i.imgur.com/Z3z1xl8.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/zUb6KSA.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 11, 2019, 12:15:51 PM
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/PinkKeptCatch.html

Huh?

(https://i.imgur.com/Z3z1xl8.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/zUb6KSA.png)

Sh*t
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 11, 2019, 12:30:19 PM
Very slow oit there this morning. This should be peak of the run. The nets have had a real effect on fishing.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 11, 2019, 03:22:00 PM
06-Sep       419,400          3,376,000
07-Sep       265,500          3,641,500
08-Sep       373,400          4,014,900
09-Sep       616,800          4,631,700
10-Sep       1,427,000       6,058,700

1.4 million yesterday. Wow......

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: canoeboy on September 11, 2019, 03:38:34 PM
Holy crap!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 11, 2019, 04:13:53 PM
06-Sep       419,400          3,376,000
07-Sep       265,500          3,641,500
08-Sep       373,400          4,014,900
09-Sep       616,800          4,631,700
10-Sep       1,427,000       6,058,700

1.4 million yesterday. Wow......

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf

I'm surprised 1.4 mil made it past all those nets. Jeez
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 11, 2019, 04:21:31 PM
I'm surprised 1.4 mil made it past all those nets. Jeez

It was only a purse seine opening for one band, as far as i know.

Anyways thoes escarpment numbers seem to be agreeing with the catch at the whonnock gill net.  To bad they are still managing based on 5 million returning sad.

Two this either they underestimated based on ocean catch or they underestimated the % of fraser pinks that made up the ocean catch.

or the third political option their was a slide, first nations have said there should be no sport fishing on the fraser. so there is no sport fishing on the fraser.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 11, 2019, 05:53:58 PM
Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 11, 2019, 06:07:41 PM
Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.

The test catch graphs in area 29 is consistent with higher than anticipated number of fish compared to previous years. If the counters are wrong then I expect lower number of fish caught.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Roderick on September 11, 2019, 06:14:18 PM
It doesn't matter how many pinks we get this year, there could be 15 mil and we still wont get an opening. 


Fact is that there is a tradition?/policy?/whatever that says that the commercial and rec sectors are tied together.  If there are excess fish above conservation and FN concerns, then the recreational sector gets 5% and the commercial gets 95%. 


What this means is that they will not open it up for sporties without letting the commies have their take, and the gill nets intended for pink will kill sockeye when its the lowest run in history.  So even though sporties have limited (in non-tidal) or no (in tidal Fraser) impact on sockeye, they wont open it. 


This tradition/policy, which I imagine was put in place a long, long time ago when the runs were healthy, should change to reflect modern reality. Recreational and commercial openings should be considered separately.  It is 2019 after all.


Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 11, 2019, 06:19:34 PM
Perhaps the estimation issues is with the Hydroacoustic readings? 1.4 million in a single day seems ridiculously high. For years they said it was experimental and mostly to be used for comparative purposes. I have also wondered why past reading are not available in the test fishing archives.

Well if they went off the two in river test fisheries the returns would still be higher than 2015 and 2017 return based on cumulative CUPE. So no matter how you slice it pinks have had a pretty decent come back this year.

(https://i.imgur.com/wc7mh1l.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 11, 2019, 07:10:35 PM
It doesn't matter how many pinks we get this year, there could be 15 mil and we still wont get an opening. 


Fact is that there is a tradition?/policy?/whatever that says that the commercial and rec sectors are tied together.  If there are excess fish above conservation and FN concerns, then the recreational sector gets 5% and the commercial gets 95%. 


What this means is that they will not open it up for sporties without letting the commies have their take, and the gill nets intended for pink will kill sockeye when its the lowest run in history.  So even though sporties have limited (in non-tidal) or no (in tidal Fraser) impact on sockeye, they wont open it. 


This tradition/policy, which I imagine was put in place a long, long time ago when the runs were healthy, should change to reflect modern reality. Recreational and commercial openings should be considered separately.  It is 2019 after all.

How do you explain the opening and daily quota of 4 pinks per day for recs outside the Fraser River mouth?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: EricBou on September 11, 2019, 08:26:16 PM
When the absence of logic is screaming...

One can wonder why... or what is driving the decisions made!!!  :o
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 11, 2019, 08:30:27 PM
The test catch graphs in area 29 is consistent with higher than anticipated number of fish compared to previous years. If the counters are wrong then I expect lower number of fish caught.

the Cottonwood and Whonnock Test fisheries are not used  to calculate the in season forecasts in any way. There only use is to provide a relative measure of the number salmon that are in the river.  The Hydroacoustic system has some sources of error that none think about - any fish of about the size of a pink may get counted. As Mission is in the tidal portion of the river and salmon will drift up and down river with tidal influences, some may get counted twice. It would be better to compare the HA counts for this year with those of previous years but as I said above, they don't seem to be available on line.

Any forecast ultimately will have some degree of error. It could be the actual run size will vary by 10 or 20% from the forecast but I can't see this year being comparable to 2013. There is nothing to indicate that. I have been on the Vedder the last 2 days and while there are good numbers of pinks it is nothing remarkable. Also don't forget the Area 29 test catches for 2013 etc will reflect large commercial takes in the chuck and downstream of Cottonwood.

Try to comprehend the nuances of the data you use.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 11, 2019, 08:42:10 PM
yeah the run is not nearly as big as 2013 and you have to remember in 2013 the USA took 3 million pnks in the ocean. Then there was our ocean fisheries ect.. Definitely not close to 2013 but seems like its comparable to 2015 and 2015 was open for recs in the fraser.

The Fraser river is not open because of the optics of us having a rec fishery while some FN nations on the Upper Faser have not had a fishery.  If the department continues down this management regime then future recreational opportunities will be diminished.




https://aptnnews.ca/2019/09/11/salmon-swimming-past-b-c-landslide-on-their-own-but-is-it-enough/

Salmon swimming past B.C. landslide on their own – but is it enough?

This is the first year Esk’etemc doesn’t have salmon for its community and although Robbins is happy with the recent salmon success at the landslide, he says more could have been done.

“I like what I see happening now, but when the landslide first happened I think a state of emergency should have been declared,” says Robbins.

“And I strongly believe they should have been transporting fish earlier, and there should have been a complete closure for all fisheries along the coast.”

The Tsilhqot’in Nation also believes closures are needed.

At the beginning of August, they declared a local state of emergency because of the salmon crisis from the landslide and issued a salmon closure last week, prohibiting sockeye, chinook, and coho retention on the Chilcotin, Chilko, and Taseko rivers and tributaries.

(Kukpi7 (Chief) Fred Robbins of Esk’etemc First Nation held a ceremony for the salmon by the Big Bar Landslide. Photo courtesy: Jonathan Hand)

Chief Jimmy Lulua of Xeni Gwet’in First Nation says the Tsilhqot’in have never had to put restrictions on their members.

“The only people that have had restrictions are Indigenous people,” says Lulua. “DFO’s mandate is if First Nations’ needs are not being met than they have to shut down sport fishing. We’ve tested that theory and it doesn’t work. We shut down our fishing, other First Nations along the river have shut down their fishing, but yet sport fishing is still happening.

“Governments have done nothing. They say they want to work with us, but at the end of the day actions speak louder than words.”

The landslide also prompted four Tsilhqot’in communities to buy fish from Ahousaht First Nation on Vancouver Island.

Hundreds of coho arrived on a flatbed trailer last week.

“This is the first time in our history that we have had to buy fish and to me that is unacceptable,” says Lulua.

“There was expected a million fish to make it back to our spawning beds so a couple thousand fish making it over the slide to me is unacceptable. Something has to change.

“When you threaten our fish, you threaten our livelihoods and that means we go to war.”
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 11, 2019, 09:11:04 PM
Sounds like the government triggered the land slide LOL
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on September 11, 2019, 09:24:33 PM
“This is the first time in our history that we have had to buy fish and to me that is unacceptable,” says Lulua.

“There was expected a million fish to make it back to our spawning beds so a couple thousand fish making it over the slide to me is unacceptable. Something has to change.

“When you threaten our fish, you threaten our livelihoods and that means we go to war.”

Is it totally inconceivable for DFO to propose that those bands upriver of the slide be allowed fisheries below the slide this year?  Or even to trap fish at the slide for their harvest?  Or dip netting at the slide?  If this slide happened in 1650, would the upriver FN people starve, or would they go downriver to fish?  I don't mean to be flippant, only practical.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 12, 2019, 07:37:16 AM
People need to remember recreational fisheries for salmon are readily available on near by tributaries of the Fraser The Vedder Chilliwack was crowded with anglers Tuesday and Wednesday. I counted a few dozen on about a 500 meter stretch. Many were hooking, landing and keeping fish. I say chinook caught, pinks caught and even a coho or 2. Chinook and pinks were being retained. Chinook recreational openings were provided and currently available near Kamloops. Chinook, coho, chum and pinks are open in the tidal waters near Vancouver and How Sound. The FNs above the slide have no access to their traditional salmon resource. In many cases bands along the entire stretch of the Fraser have turned down  openings.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 12, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
People need to remember recreational fisheries for salmon are readily available on near by tributaries of the Fraser The Vedder Chilliwack was crowded with anglers Tuesday and Wednesday. I counted a few dozen on about a 500 meter stretch. Many were hooking, landing and keeping fish. I say chinook caught, pinks caught and even a coho or 2. Chinook and pinks were being retained. Chinook recreational openings were provided and currently available near Kamloops. Chinook, coho, chum and pinks are open in the tidal waters near Vancouver and How Sound. The FNs above the slide have no access to their traditional salmon resource. In many cases bands along the entire stretch of the Fraser have turned down  openings.


Why is the vedder open for pinks??With hundreds lined up flossing? No endangered sockeye to worry about? have the Soowahlie had an opening on the vedder this year??

Seems to me its hard to make any sense of why one place is open while another is closed.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 12, 2019, 08:18:13 AM
Anyways... no need to go their...saw this posted on FRSA facebook page

(https://i.imgur.com/BMLlwPE.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 12, 2019, 08:49:38 AM

Why is the vedder open for pinks??With hundreds lined up flossing? No endangered sockeye to worry about? have the Soowahlie had an opening on the vedder this year??

Seems to me its hard to make any sense of why one place is open while another is closed.

If you want to engage in sarcasm you should study the art of it.

All this pithy little BS will do nothing to reverse the closure on the Fraser. It is in fact to late to reverse the decision.

For people who don't like the lack of response from Public employees complain to the Deputy Minister, the Minister the Prime Minister the Opposition Leaders and local MPs.

Fortunately for my last couple days on the river the anglers I saw were mostly experienced. I saw no little snagging, all fish released were released in a commendable fashion. I saw no flossing. Of course I wasn't at KW. Lol

For folks wanting to fish for Pinks, the light gear you used on the Fraser is ok for some parts of the V/C and even suitable for coho. I spin their quite regularly myself. If conditions improve the Harrison will provide some really good shore fishing down towards the mouth. Later on there should be a big push of pinks up the river and you can fish from shore at many points up to the #7 bridge. Same tackle works there.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 12, 2019, 09:06:22 AM
*yawn*

anyways they opened the US test fishery back up interesting

https://www.psc.org/TestFish/DailyReports/11Sep19.PDF
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 12, 2019, 09:40:15 AM
If you want to engage in sarcasm you should study the art of it.

All this pithy little BS will do nothing to reverse the closure on the Fraser. It is in fact to late to reverse the decision.

For people who don't like the lack of response from Public employees complain to the Deputy Minister, the Minister the Prime Minister the Opposition Leaders and local MPs.

Fortunately for my last couple days on the river the anglers I saw were mostly experienced. I saw no little snagging, all fish released were released in a commendable fashion. I saw no flossing. Of course I wasn't at KW. Lol

For folks wanting to fish for Pinks, the light gear you used on the Fraser is ok for some parts of the V/C and even suitable for coho. I spin their quite regularly myself. If conditions improve the Harrison will provide some really good shore fishing down towards the mouth. Later on there should be a big push of pinks up the river and you can fish from shore at many points up to the #7 bridge. Same tackle works there.

Does bar fishing work in Harrison river mouth?



*yawn*

anyways they opened the US test fishery back up interesting

https://www.psc.org/TestFish/DailyReports/11Sep19.PDF

I haven't seen much fish rolling or jumping in the lower fraser since the first nation netting open on monday.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 12, 2019, 10:01:20 AM
I haven't seen much fish rolling or jumping in the lower fraser since the first nation netting open on monday.

Was on the river near Fort Langley yesterday evening and this morning and was seeing near constant fish rolling and jumping.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 12, 2019, 10:42:50 AM
For folks wanting to fish for Pinks, the light gear you used on the Fraser is ok for some parts of the V/C and even suitable for coho. I spin their quite regularly myself. If conditions improve the Harrison will provide some really good shore fishing down towards the mouth. Later on there should be a big push of pinks up the river and you can fish from shore at many points up to the #7 bridge. Same tackle works there.

Will the Harrison be blown out with all the rain coming this weekend? never tried would like to give it a go.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 12, 2019, 10:46:40 AM
Will the Harrison be blown out with all the rain coming this weekend? never tried would like to give it a go.

Thanks,

Harrison won't change much
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 12, 2019, 11:34:45 AM
Harrison won't change much

We had a wicked rain event last year. It was a few solid days of hard rain. I believe it was mid November. Anyhow, that was the first time I'd ever seen the Harrison run brown bellow the Chehalis. From Kilby all the way up to where the Chehalis comes out of the booms it was chocolate brown. Above that it was fine. Again, a rarity but it can happen. I can remeber seeing logs come down the Harrison from the Chehalis
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 12, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
I stopped at the Harrison yesterday. It's a bit high for the time of year and has some colour to it. The river actually is part of a long drainage system that extends well north of Pemberton where the heaviest rain is expected in the next day or 2. This may cause it to rise within the following couple of days and take a longer time to drop as Harrison Lake holds lots of water from runoff events and it drains off slowly.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 12, 2019, 12:33:17 PM
I stopped at the Harrison yesterday. It's a bit high for the time of year and has some colour to it. The river actually is part of a long drainage system that extends well north of Pemberton where the heaviest rain is expected in the next day or 2. This may cause it to rise within the following couple of days and take a longer time to drop as Harrison Lake holds lots of water from runoff events and it drains off slowly.

Interesting. Can you fish on the dyke road below the train bridge or is this native land?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 12, 2019, 12:48:55 PM
Interesting. Can you fish on the dyke road below the train bridge or is this native land?

(https://i.ibb.co/bbywwtf/Screenshot-20190912-124207-Earth.jpg)

It is reserve land. Reserve land start 50 meters or so down river from the train bridge. There is a google earth plug-in that will display all reserve land and land claims ( even mineral claims ). Just google search it. It works with Google earth on your phone as well. Makes things really simple.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 12, 2019, 12:52:39 PM
If you already have google Earth installed on your phone, download this file. It works with Android. I'm not too sure about Apple. I dont own one.

http://clss.nrcan.gc.ca/data-donnees/kml/Canada%20Lands.kmz
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 12, 2019, 01:32:41 PM
Interesting. Can you fish on the dyke road below the train bridge or is this native land?

I called the BC Land Office after having been hassled by one drunken individual there - I never had a problem any other time. That was at least ten years ago. I called BC Lands and they told me the reserve line was in the centre of the dike. The area from the centre to the high water mark was public. That was the only time I was ever bothered. After the dike was upgraded in 2007, the gate at the southeast has been left unlocked. Whenever I have been there since I have chatted with some FNs since and no one ever bothered me. I also greet them as "Good Morning, how is the fishing?"
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 12, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
*yawn*

anyways they opened the US test fishery back up interesting

https://www.psc.org/TestFish/DailyReports/11Sep19.PDF

your posts often remind of the saying:

"misery doesn't just love company, it demands it!".
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 12, 2019, 02:01:13 PM
The Scowlitz First Nation are very nice people. They have a brand new top of the line playground, water park and sports field. Better than any playground I've ever seen in......... well......... anywhere. They let the public use it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same for the dyke
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: tfishy on September 12, 2019, 05:48:56 PM
The  Fraser  River  Panel  met  Thursday,  September  12  to  receive  an update  on  the  migration of  Fraser  River  sockeye  and  pink  salmon  and  review  the  status of  migration  conditions  in  the  Fraser River  watershed,  including  an  update  of  the  rock  slide at  Big  Bar.  The rock  slide at  Big  Bar continues  to be  a  major  source of  concern  for  the Panel  as migrating  sockeye salmon  will  need  to pass this  area to reach their  spawning grounds. There  is  now  evidence of  natural  passage of  sockeye and pink  salmon through the  slide  area, and  as  a  result  helicopter  transport  of  fish  above  the  slide has  halted for  the  time  being. It  is  currently  estimated  that  approximately  468,600  sockeye  and  6,878,700  pink  salmon have passed  the  Mission  hydroacoustic  site.  Test  fishing  catches and  daily  escapements of  sockeye salmon  continue  to track  well  below  pre-season  forecast  expectations.  In-river test  fishing  catches and  daily  escapements of  pink  salmon  are  tracking  above pre-season forecast  expectations.  The Panel  adopted  run  sizes for  Early  Stuart,  Early  Summer, Summer  and  Late  run    of  26,000,  94,000, 360,000 and 20,000  with  associated  Area  20  timings  of  July  8, July  29,  and Aug  19  (for  both Summer  and Late  run),  respectively.  The  Panel  also  adopted  a  pink  run size  of  8,900,000 with  an Area  20  timing  of  August  17. On  September  11  the discharge of  the Fraser  River  at  Hope was  2,114  cms,  which is approximately  9%  below  average for  this date.  The temperature of  the Fraser  River  at  Qualark Creek  on  September  11  was  17.70C,  which  is  2.30C  above  average  for  this  date.  Fraser  River discharge  levels  and  water  temperatures  will  be monitored  closely  to  determine if  specific management  actions  are  required  during  the  in-river  migratory  period  to  help  achieve  sockeye escapement  goals
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 12, 2019, 06:05:56 PM
Lol.... I just... what a year


The  Panel  also  adopted  a  pink  run size  of  8,900,000 with  an Area  20  timing  of  August  17.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on September 12, 2019, 08:22:32 PM
Almost 9 million pinks and we are not allowed to fish tidal Fraser but boats can keep 4. Hello? Can DFO explain this to the recreational fishing community if it is their hidden agenda to kill off recreational fishing? BC fishermen and MPs should push for Ottawa to let BC handle our own salmon management. DFO is not being fair to their fellow Canadians!!!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: psd1179 on September 12, 2019, 09:22:16 PM
Almost 9 million pinks and we are not allowed to fish tidal Fraser but boats can keep 4. Hello? Can DFO explain this to the recreational fishing community if it is their hidden agenda to kill off recreational fishing? BC fishermen and MPs should push for Ottawa to let BC handle our own salmon management. DFO is not being fair to their fellow Canadians!!!


In my limited fishing experience, I haven't done better than 24 pink in 3 hrs before. I thought my skill must improved significantly since the run was small. However, this fk board eventually admit there are 9 million fish. What a shame to ruin my self illusion.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 13, 2019, 05:01:54 AM
I thought something was off when you could ( almost ) walk on the backs of Pink salmon is some areas of the Fraser. It's crazy out there. We went Sturgeon fishing after catching our Limit and counted 16 floaters in an hour as well. Soooooooo many Pinks at the Sumas mouth. No wonder DFO isnt enforcing the regs.  This political game that's being played is circus show.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: capman on September 13, 2019, 05:57:03 AM
By now, one thing that has become so obvious to fishing community is that majority of DFO decisions and enforcements have been based on political gains. It’s a shame that under the name of conservation they exclude rec fishermen from their natural rights. We learned this by having numerous meetings with DFO and Jonathan Wilkinson himself. They have been completely closing their eyes and ears and simply following their own agenda. It’s time for those of us who love the conservation and yet like be able to enjoy and practice using their natural resource to stand up educate and made aware not jut fishermen but the entire community of what is going on.
My apologies to bring this up in the report section but couldn’t help it.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 13, 2019, 09:52:11 AM
They are still coming.  Exceeding 8 Million today for sure.  ;)

08-Sep    373,400   HA   4,014,900   328   44.28   392   29.29   
09-Sep    616,800   HA   4,631,700   92   12.76   676   50.78   
10-Sep    1,402,000   HA   6,033,700   115   15.53   418   31.35   
11-Sep    844,400   HA   6,878,100   70   10.52   261   19.58   
12-Sep    848,400   HA   7,726,500   63   8.83   229   17.18   
13-Sep       No-Est      54   7.34         
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 13, 2019, 09:59:51 AM
Fishery Notice
Category(s):COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
Subject:FN0921-COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine and Troll - Fraser River Pink - Area B and H - Area 29 - 2019 ITQ Demonstration Fishery

In 2019, Area B seine and Area H troll Fraser River Pink harvest opportunities
will be managed as Individual Transferable Quota (ITQ) demonstration fisheries.

Key elements of the Fraser River Pink ITQ demonstration fishery are as follows:

1. The Fraser River Pink ITQ will be determined by DFO by dividing the Area B
Fraser River Pink allocation (82.5%) by the total number of licensed vessels
for Area B (169) or 0.48817% per licence. The ITQ percentage is multiplied by
the available commercial Fraser River Pink TAC (determined by DFO in-season) to
determine the ITQ in pieces of salmon. The Area H Fraser River Pink ITQ will be
determined using the same formula, i.e. by dividing the Area H Fraser River
Pink allocation (10.0%) by the total number of licensed vessels for Area H (77)
or 0.12987% per licence. The quota share will remain fixed in-season (subject
to amendments for seasonal quota transactions).

2. The available commercial Fraser River Pink TAC will be distributed over the
course of the fishery (in increments) rather than all at once and will be
announced by fishery notice and adjusted if necessary following Fraser Panel
meetings (usually Tuesday and Friday) depending on abundance and stock
composition.

3. Sockeye encounter rates will be assessed for both Area B and H fleets. The
Sockeye encounter rates will be based on independent At-Sea Observer data.
Different encounter rates may be used for each fleet (B vs H)and time (daily).
Note: The same encounter rates will be applied to all vessels in each fleet in
each Area on a given day, except those vessel with a stationary Observer that
have an encounter rate less than the fleet average.

4. Quota will be transferable in whole or in part within each licence area
(e.g. Area B to Area B or Area H to Area H) as well as between licence areas
(e.g. Area B to Area H or Area H to Area B). Transfers to other gears are not
allowed.

5. Quota may be reallocated as a percent (for the season) or by pieces (e.g.
temporarily to cover an overage).

6. Overages must be covered by a quota reallocation within 24 hours of landing
and validation (the '24 hours rule'). Vessels are not permitted to recommence
fishing until all overages have been covered.

7. An increase in the TAC cannot be used to cover an overage. The quota being
transferred to a vessel in an overage situation must be quota that was
available prior to the TAC increase.

8. Overages as a result of a run downgrade must be covered by a quota
reallocation.

9. An overage occurring as a consequence of a decrease in the TAC will not have
to be covered if the fishery is closed for the duration of the season.

10. Licence eligibility holders are strongly encouraged to designate a signing
authority prior to the start of the fishery. This designation permits someone
else to authorize a quota transfer if the license eligibility holder is out
fishing and is unable to complete the required transfer application. The
designation and reallocation forms can be obtained by contacting:

A/Resource Manager Erika Watkins
250-286-5882
Erika.Watkins@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

11. Start and end fishing reports are a requirement for Area B and Area H and
must be completed according to conditions of licence.

12. Daily catch reporting for Area B and Area H must be completed according to
the conditions of licence (e.g. phone in by 08:00 hours of the day after
fishing for the previous day's catch, etc.).

13. Catch validation will be mandatory and individual licence eligibility
holders will be required to cover the cost of catch validation provided by a
salmon offload observer service provider authorized by the Department.

14. Catch prohibited on board the licensed vessel while fishing include:
- No salmon caught while fishing in a non-quota fishery shall be on board the
licensed vessel while fishing in a quota fishery.
- No salmon of any species that are not permitted to be retained under the
authority of this licence at the time and area being fished shall be on board
the licensed vessel.
- No quota species caught under the authority of another licence shall be on
board the licensed vessel. For clarity, all quota species on board the vessel
shall be counted again the vessel's Area B or Area H quota.
- Any fish that have been landed and validated.

15. Area B and Area H vessels will be permitted to move fish from one vessel to
another on the grounds. All vessels are required to document in the Offload
Catch Report section of the logbook or e-log, when fish has been pooled
(transhipped) onto another vessel or vessels. If a vessel transports and lands
fish from other vessels the catch is assigned to the landing vessel. Quota
reallocations must be made within 24 hours of landing if the landing vessel has
a quota overage.

A copy of the guidelines for the 2019 ITQ demonstration fishery is available in
Appendix 7 of the 2019 Integrated Fisheries Management Plan for Southern BC at
the following link.

IFMP Southern: https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40799104.pdf

An Area B and Area H ITQ package is available at the following link and
includes the temporary reallocation forms and designation forms. 

http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/licence-permis/licence-commercial-permis-
eng.html

For more information regarding the ITQ package please contact Jessica Ottley at
250-627-3007 or by email Erika.Watkins@dfo-mpo.gc.ca


FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Christine Bukta 250-286-5888 or Christine.Bukta@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0921
Sent September 13, 2019 at 0941

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 13, 2019, 03:44:42 PM

https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225470&ID=all

During the Panel meeting on Thursday the run size for Pink salmon was increased
from 5.0 million to 8.9 million with Area 20 timing of August 17. Recent daily
escapement estimates at Mission peaked at 1.4 million on September 10 and
decreased to 848,390 on September 12. At this run size international TAC
increased substantially resulting in the scheduling of additional US fisheries
that began today. During today's Panel meeting Canada announced the scheduling
of ITQ fisheries for Areas B and H in Area 29. See the PSC Regulatory
Announcement for details on the US fisheries and the individual DFO Fisheries
Notices for Areas B and H in Canada. First Nations fisheries for FSC purposes
will continue to be considered for Pink salmon. First Nations economic
opportunity and recreational opportunities for Pink salmon are also being
considered. Information on any recreational opportunities will be communicated
in separate DFO Fisheries Notices.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 13, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Lamo.

So....... the rules that was never enforced will potentially be lifted. Goes to show their decision was political overall. Just a joke.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: tfishy on September 13, 2019, 04:38:27 PM
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225481&ID=all

Waters: Tidal waters of the Fraser River (downstream edge of the CPR Bridge at
Mission to the mouth).

Management measures: 

Effective September 14 until September 20, 2019:
- The daily limit for Pink salmon is four (4).
- The daily limit for Chum salmon is four (4).
- You may not retain Chinook or Coho salmon.
- No fishing for Sockeye salmon.
- You may not use bait when fishing for salmon.

In the tidal Fraser River, fishing for salmon is only permitted from one hour
before sunrise to one after sunset each day.

Variation Order numbers: 2019-RFQ-504, 2019-RCT-505
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 13, 2019, 04:44:25 PM
The Fraser will remain closed until Nov 1st. That won't change.

 :D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 13, 2019, 04:49:49 PM
Fishing for scraps. Nearing the end of the run soon. Thanks DFO. The fleet and FN will have their nets all over the place.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 13, 2019, 04:51:13 PM
Fishing for scraps. Nearing the end of the run soon. Thanks DFO

At Least sanity has prevailed and DFO resource managers came to their senese. This may be to little to late but its a WIN and ill take it.

PS it closes on the 20th so get out their!! you got 6 days!!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: CohoJake on September 13, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
What's the consensus on non-tidal?  Think an announcement will follow this one?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: RalphH on September 13, 2019, 05:08:08 PM
The Fraser will remain closed until Nov 1st. That won't change.

At 4 million escapement and declining fast.

https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Pink_Passage_Summary.pdf

 ::)

gotta love these kind of turnarounds.

Of course most of the 8.9 million run is past Mission now and is over 250% of the minimum escapement target.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 13, 2019, 05:24:09 PM
::)

gotta love these kind of turnarounds.

Of course most of the 8.9 million run is past Mission now and is over 250% of the minimum escapement target.

It's about principal keeping the lower fraser river closed in the face of mounting evidence that the pink run was indeed stronger than anticipated. Most of the run may be passed but at least there is still managers in DFO allowing fisheries to take place. This opening is going to infuriate people that were calling to keep the fraser river closed to recreational fishing and despite that pressure the department still opened it.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 13, 2019, 05:34:23 PM
4 pinks per day rec opening for 6 days.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 13, 2019, 05:46:16 PM
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=225481&ID=all
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 13, 2019, 06:07:11 PM
Opening for Tidal Only, so they prevented bottom bounching  ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 13, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
stoked to get out there this weekend! Goodluck everyone  ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: juno on September 13, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
WHat? it opened? so we have   no use in the lower fraser?  didn't  buy my salt license.  because thought it  would never open. frustrating. the >  DFO
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 13, 2019, 08:01:29 PM
I find it frustrating that they use the Mission CPR bridge as a boundry. It should be east of the Sumas. My 2 cents
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: DanL on September 13, 2019, 08:19:16 PM
Opening for Tidal Only, so they prevented bottom bounching  ;D

you joke but haven't measures like this been advocated for by the rec advocacy groups for some now to address some of the DFO's other concerns, as mentioned in some of Rodney's previous posts?

I want to believe the DFO is actually still considering the advisement of the sport sector as opposed to just ignoring them...
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 13, 2019, 09:18:44 PM
you joke but haven't measures like this been advocated for by the rec advocacy groups for some now to address some of the DFO's other concerns, as mentioned in some of Rodney's previous posts?

I want to believe the DFO is actually still considering the advisement of the sport sector as opposed to just ignoring them...
Good point.  Hopefully this is a start and may be in the future they can think about leader length recommendations for the Tidal and Non Tidal Fraser.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Wiseguy on September 14, 2019, 07:05:41 AM
DFO throwing the sporties a crumb. Extend the opening to include the non tidal portion of the river.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on September 14, 2019, 08:13:58 AM
Visibility is about a foot out by the tunnel - not so good.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 14, 2019, 09:47:54 AM
I stopped off under the Mission bridge for a bit this morning. No risers, no bites, no signs of life.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: ktt on September 14, 2019, 12:06:36 PM
This morning, Richmond Fraser, no risers, no bites.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Alomar on September 14, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
Fished sandheads yesterday no signs of pinks what so ever.  Lots of springs but no humpies
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 14, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
It's a quick run up the Fraser. This year is just another example of how fast the Pink run is. 13 days or so.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: coldfinger on September 14, 2019, 02:24:00 PM
Just returned from the Mission Bridge area. After a late start of 9:30 ish , due to the down pour here and just as things began to lighten up.  Second cast,  fish on !..
I was twitching a pink jig from shore. It was a fresh looking doe with lice still attached with no net marks. I let it go. First fish always goes... males or does. Just my way
15 minutes later switched to a pink w/ white thunderbolt spoon for the extra distance and boom , rewarded with big chunky Humpy male. After a great scrap, Off it went.
 Around 10:30 a  Buddy and his little one dropped by. Two more fish on. The little one to learn how lose those two gracefully. lol  Then things slowed down after that for us. But fish were still being landed up the beach as we were leaving around 1:00pm. Viz was 12"- 16"  not great but still ...
I'd say it was an alright morning.
2 cents worth
CF
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 14, 2019, 02:54:23 PM
Just returned from the Mission Bridge area. After a late start of 9:30 ish , due to the down pour here and just as things began to lighten up.  Second cast,  fish on !..
I was twitching a pink jig from shore. It was a fresh looking doe with lice still attached with no net marks. I let it go. First fish always goes... males or does. Just my way
15 minutes later switched to a pink w/ white thunderbolt spoon for the extra distance and boom , rewarded with big chunky Humpy male. After a great scrap, Off it went.
 Around 10:30 a  Buddy and his little one dropped by. Two more fish on. The little one to learn how lose those two gracefully. lol  Then things slowed down after that for us. But fish were still being landed up the beach as we were leaving around 1:00pm. Viz was 12"- 16"  not great but still ...
I'd say it was an alright morning.
2 cents worth
CF

What time did the tide peak this morning at the Mission bridge? Thanks for the report.

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 14, 2019, 03:18:39 PM
The Mission gauge says 8am
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 14, 2019, 03:20:56 PM
Actually that's a pretty smart way of finding out... why didn't I think of that...? ;D
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 14, 2019, 03:28:14 PM
Fished langley area this morning first light to about 10. Hooked into 6, landed 4. Great to be back out there!
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 14, 2019, 03:28:46 PM
Actually that's a pretty smart way of finding out... why didn't I think of that...? ;D

2 to 3 hours difference from the tides posted in New West Minister. Would be the tide at the Sumas mouth. The low tide seems to be the 3 hours difference and 2 hours for high tide. This is how I've always gauged my tides. I just compare the Mission gauge to the New West tide charts.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 14, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
Just came back from spot in langley with my son odd fish being caught no jumpers.

Nice to see all the young kids out
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Fish Assassin on September 14, 2019, 04:09:05 PM
Any reports from the Richmond area ?
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: red_sir on September 14, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
Fished south arm from 4-6pm. No signs of fish.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: lapa on September 14, 2019, 07:03:04 PM
Fished south arm from 4-6pm. No signs of fish.
The same on River road
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 14, 2019, 10:33:07 PM
Stopped off under the Mission bridge on the way home from work for a few casts. I saw a few 3 jumpers, no fish caught, got a wind knott after 30 casts and left. I'll return to the Sumas/Fraser with the Jet on Monday.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Steelhawk on September 15, 2019, 01:41:53 AM
Fished Surrey area in the afternoon. Very slow with hardly any risers. Only a few fish for all the guys for the few hours I was there. Did the commercials scooped up the fish? Lol.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 15, 2019, 09:58:46 AM
Most of the day yesterday and a couple hours this morning in the langley area, completely skunked. After about 9:30am yesterday stopped seeing fish rising at all and didn't see a single person with a fish on. Lady came through counting fish at the end of the morning today and hadn't come across anyone yet with a fish. Thanks for the scraps DFO.

Might try Chilliwack later today, fingers crossed this run doesn't completely pass me by.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 15, 2019, 10:22:12 AM
Most of the day yesterday and a couple hours this morning in the langley area, completely skunked. After about 9:30am yesterday stopped seeing fish rising at all and didn't see a single person with a fish on. Lady came through counting fish at the end of the morning today and hadn't come across anyone yet with a fish. Thanks for the scraps DFO.

Might try Chilliwack later today, fingers crossed this run doesn't completely pass me by.

It goes by so fast. My past records show ( for the Vedder area ) maybe 7 days of solid fishing. Then it's over.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: essyoo on September 15, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
It goes by so fast. My past records show ( for the Vedder area ) maybe 7 days of solid fishing. Then it's over.

This is my first pink run, was not expecting it to drop off SO fast. Nearly a year of salmon fishing with my kids and one chum to show for it. My wife thinks I'm crazy at this point.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: ratfish on September 15, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Fished Alex Fraser Bridge area today, A few risers out far. Looks like they are running up the river fast They are not meandering close to shore. Hooked one on a long cast and then lost it close to shore.   
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 15, 2019, 11:44:44 AM
This is my first pink run, was not expecting it to drop off SO fast. Nearly a year of salmon fishing with my kids and one chum to show for it. My wife thinks I'm crazy at this point.

Mine thinks I'm crazy too. You just have to put some serious time in come fresh water Salmon season. Convince her it's only 2 months and you deserve it !
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Shinny on September 15, 2019, 03:00:40 PM
Mine thinks I'm crazy too. You just have to put some serious time in come fresh water Salmon season. Convince her it's only 2 months and you deserve it !

Pick up a couple Safeway fillets on the way home when your skunked...then she won’t think your so crazy  :P
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 15, 2019, 03:22:36 PM
Pick up a couple Safeway fillets on the way home when your skunked...then she won’t think your so crazy  :P

It would definitely be cheaper than buying tackle that's for sure.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: danielk on September 15, 2019, 05:36:46 PM
Don’t give up.  The fishing season isn’t over it’s just starting  !!! Keep your lines wet !!! pretty sure the commercial opening cleaned up today’s fish.   Try again in the morning or after work should have a couple days left for pinks if that’s what your going for anyways       I just left Brownsville took the minions to see if anyone was catching anything  was dry.   But still nice in the sun
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: fic on September 15, 2019, 08:25:14 PM
The Area 29 Test Fishing yesterday and day before really has come down a lot. If they only opened it that day when 1.4 Million fish swam through  ???

Hopefully there is another surge before it closes on Friday.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: danielk on September 16, 2019, 09:52:51 PM
Messed around annacis today playing with some new lures nothing  was hoping for a dog (chummer). No risers it was kinda scary. Only one sturgeon hooked up by someone else      Anyone one else have any luck   Lower river.     And yes she’s done I know. 
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Fish Assassin on September 16, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Nothing for me this afternoon.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: ktt on September 16, 2019, 11:22:50 PM
Fished this morning and evening at Richmond south arm, no bites, only saw one riser, very small size,it should less than 3 pounds.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: 243Pete on September 17, 2019, 02:22:47 AM
Fish from a little past noon till about 6-7pm and only had two hits but one was a long line release and the other was a pike minnow who came off after it popped the surface, seen some good sized springs jumping around and the odd riser but it was all far between.
Looks like the majority of the run has already passed the lowers and should be headed into the smaller systems.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: sockeyed on September 17, 2019, 07:24:29 AM
Fraser pinks are done for me, numbers just arent there anymore. Had some success on Saturday morning, then nothing on a few short outings on Sunday morning and Monday night. I am sure the tributaries are loaded.


10-Sep      1,402,000        6,031,300 1
11-Sep      844,400           6,875,700
12-Sep      849,300           7,725,000
13-Sep      348,800           8,073,800
14-Sep      157,000           8,230,800
15-Sep      88,400

Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 17, 2019, 09:05:43 AM
Fraser pinks are done for me, numbers just arent there anymore. Had some success on Saturday morning, then nothing on a few short outings on Sunday morning and Monday night. I am sure the tributaries are loaded.


10-Sep      1,402,000        6,031,300 1
11-Sep      844,400           6,875,700
12-Sep      849,300           7,725,000
13-Sep      348,800           8,073,800
14-Sep      157,000           8,230,800
15-Sep      88,400

They spawn fast and furious. There are LOTS of floaters going down the Fraser. On my way up to the Sumas I counted over 10 just near my path.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: matrix111 on September 17, 2019, 10:04:45 AM
None in Surrey and none in Langley. I haven't seen anyone catching any. Pinks are done on the Fraser.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 17, 2019, 10:10:09 AM
None in Surrey and none in Langley. I haven't seen anyone catching any. Pinks are done on the Fraser.

Yep with the clean up crews out from the USA area 7 to the mouth in canada not much is making it to the river.  First two days of the opening were the only consistent days.

Was nice to see all the young kids out tossing a lure with all the space in the world. Very important recreational fishery for the future.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 17, 2019, 10:29:11 AM
The following is a letter from Marc Laynes, the chair of Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association​ to Rebecca Reid, Pacific Regional Director General at Fisheries and Oceans Canada​.

Quote
Dear Ms. Reid,
 
We question the decision to open the tidal Fraser for pink retention for recreational anglers, while the non-tidal section remains closed.  We acknowledge the concerns for sockeye but suggest that since beach seining has already been permitted in the upper river, why is selective recreational pink salmon fishing not open? 
 
As you are aware, angling groups have lobbied for years for a leader length restriction to be imposed when other  stocks of concern are present. This has been accepted as practical during chinook fisheries and is easily applicable during the current pink abundance.  A leader restriction would allow some opportunity for family fishing & would be a highlight of what has been a dismal summer angling season.  A leader restriction would virtually eliminate incidental catch of threatened sockeye stocks.
 
If selective fisheries (beach seining) are allowed for First Nations, why are we not granted the same opportunities? Extensive discussions have taken place through all SFAB channels including recommendations from the SFAB committee on selective fishing. The Fraser River angling community has supported selective fishing for years. We have patiently dealt with your department, anticipating cooperation toward providing opportunity.
 
Why is our sector denied these selective opportunities while other sectors are currently on the water?  It is unfathomable that we are still at these crossroads.
 
Marc Laynes, FVAGA Chair
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 17, 2019, 11:01:31 AM
have you proposed a demonstration fishery through the IFMP process I was told this was an avenue to explore.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: firstlight on September 17, 2019, 11:34:56 AM
The following is a letter from Marc Laynes, the chair of Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association​ to Rebecca Reid, Pacific Regional Director General at Fisheries and Oceans Canada​.

Thanks for that Marc.
Well said.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Robert_G on September 17, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
The hate for the sporties from our government has become so obvious that nothing short of a revolution is going to get us back on the water. It wouldn't even surprise me if the numbers of pinks coming in (as of 3 weeks ago) was fudged by the government on purpose to keep us out.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 17, 2019, 04:15:28 PM
The hate for the sporties from our government has become so obvious that nothing short of a revolution is going to get us back on the water. It wouldn't even surprise me if the numbers of pinks coming in (as of 3 weeks ago) was fudged by the government on purpose to keep us out.

I honestly wouldn't doubt anything. Including that.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Rodney on September 17, 2019, 04:24:49 PM
...It wouldn't even surprise me if the numbers of pinks coming in (as of 3 weeks ago) was fudged by the government on purpose to keep us out.

Lower Fraser First Nations could also say the same thing. Recreational openings were never going to open until First Nations' FSC fisheries begin, which took place last weekend.

In-season stock estimates are constantly changing as information comes in. When abundance is lowered after fisheries are opened, we cry mismanagement. When abundance is determined to be higher later on after all the fisheries are kept closed, we cry mismanagement. It's the nature of managing a fish population that is constantly on the move.

With that said, there are a couple of questionable actions. One is that in-season abundance was increased to 6. something million fish at one point but the Fraser River Panel refused to adopt it and still managed it at 5 million fish.

Secondly, it makes no sense that the saltwater recreational sector was able to retain 4 pink salmon per day in Area 29 and beyond outside of the Fraser River mouth while in-river fisheries (both recreational and FSC) remained closed.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 17, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
The hate for the sporties from our government has become so obvious that nothing short of a revolution is going to get us back on the water. It wouldn't even surprise me if the numbers of pinks coming in (as of 3 weeks ago) was fudged by the government on purpose to keep us out.

I believe it was posted earlier on here but there was a disagreement about the size of the run between PSC panel members, As a result they delayed all the fisheries till they had more in river data, As a result of that delay we basically missed our fishery.

No conspiracy just it seems like they were being overly cautious and that's a big change from last sockeye season where they overharvested the sockeye run by a considerable amount so perhaps that was in the back of their heads.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Hike_and_fish on September 17, 2019, 10:30:18 PM
Hopefully next cycle goes past 12 million. If all goes well.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: EricBou on September 18, 2019, 09:32:48 AM
Lower Fraser First Nations could also say the same thing. Recreational openings were never going to open until First Nations' FSC fisheries begin, which took place last weekend.

In-season stock estimates are constantly changing as information comes in. When abundance is lowered after fisheries are opened, we cry mismanagement. When abundance is determined to be higher later on after all the fisheries are kept closed, we cry mismanagement. It's the nature of managing a fish population that is constantly on the move.

With that said, there are a couple of questionable actions. One is that in-season abundance was increased to 6. something million fish at one point but the Fraser River Panel refused to adopt it and still managed it at 5 million fish.

Secondly, it makes no sense that the saltwater recreational sector was able to retain 4 pink salmon per day in Area 29 and beyond outside of the Fraser River mouth while in-river fisheries (both recreational and FSC) remained closed.

I can only agree at 300% with you Rod!!!

I would also questioned commercial fishing (in Alaska mostly) and all their by-catch of Canadian salmon.  The commercial fishery technology has changed significantly since the 70's-80's... their fishing capability (bigger boat, bigger net, better sonar, GPS, etc) to catch salmon (school) has increased drastically... this translate into the following:
- if salmon stock decreases, the effort to catch their quota (CPE) will remain "artificially" the same
- that quota, applied on a depleted stock, will have significant impact on the FW returns
- that quota, applied on an healthy stock, should be sustainable.

Are wild stocks depleted or healthy???
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: wildmanyeah on September 18, 2019, 09:32:56 AM
Hopefully next cycle goes past 12 million. If all goes well.

We are set up well for 2021, I would think about 12 million should return.

Here's the kicker tho, Escapement does not correlate well with pink salmon.  In fact an 8 million escapement is pretty high.  So in terms of pink making it to the spawning grounds this year is a pretty high year.

"The 2019 Pink salmon forecast of 5.0 million is lower than the long term average (12.7 million),
and the 2018 fry outmigration of 192.2 million is the lowest observed since the method for
enumerating outmigrating fry was standardized in 1968 and less than half of the long term
average of 431.9 million."

The 2018 fry that made this years return was one of the lowest on record and returned almost 9 million fish so Ocean Survival is really the key.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/347488.pdf
http://frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/2019%20Fraser%20Sockeye%20Forecast.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/7ILG54g.png)
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: canoeboy on September 19, 2019, 09:36:45 AM
On Wikipedia it says annually about 240 million pink salmon are harvested from the Pacific Ocean both east and west. If a 5.5 million run produces a fry output of 192 million just imagine if they cut the pink salmon commercial fishery by 1/4 so 60 million fish  :o.  Also im not sure but doesnt BC have some of the "strongest" pink runs. So who knows how much of the 240 million harvested is BC stock.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: Easywater on September 19, 2019, 12:29:32 PM
Alaska and Russia pump out about 5 BILLION pink fry each year.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: canoeboy on September 19, 2019, 04:41:21 PM
Really! Oh wow. That's intense (where did you find that information ? I would love to read it). See I would love to see just one run where none were taken out in the ocean, just to see them all in the rivers like a gaint :'( fish bridge you could walk across. I know it will never happen but a guy can dream.
Title: Re: Fraser Pinks 2019
Post by: SPEYMAN on September 19, 2019, 06:36:25 PM
Come to the Quinsam River hatchery late August to late September. Not a large river but has a large return of Pinks every year. Your dream may come true.