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Author Topic: 2018 Brood Capture Update.  (Read 6554 times)

psd1179

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2018, 08:10:51 PM »

 year to year around 5000 to 10000 steelhead return? I doubt.

Say in 20km fishable water along vedder, if there were 5000 steelhead, it means 25 fish every 100 meters. Then we don't need to struggle at all.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 08:26:22 PM by psd1179 »
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wildmanyeah

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2018, 08:17:10 PM »

There are just too many demands on these populations and society just do's not want to make any significant sacrifices to their lifestyles to allow these populations to recover if that is even possible.

That's pretty much it,

I can link many studies that point to wild salmon having better survival rates than thoes of hatchery raised but there is no will to close fisheries to let stocks recover. I am not going to get into that debate as its been extensively debated on other forums. 

Some people would say that the only reason C/V is doing good because the steelhead are winter run and not summer run.  Therefore they see very little interception in mix fisheries.

Whatever the reason i see there being very little point in removing the hatchery at this point. It's really one of the only few systems left in BC where Steelhead are effectively not extirpated from.

I am also pretty sure the only thing different from the wild steelhead and the hatchery steelhead in the C/V at this point is a clipped fin.   

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stsfisher

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2018, 09:04:34 PM »

year to year around 5000 to 10000 steelhead return? I doubt.

Say in 20km fishable water along vedder, if there were 5000 steelhead, it means 25 fish every 100 meters. Then we don't need to struggle at all.
The Chilliwack system is much larger than 25km. You must include up to and beyond the lake when considering the water these fish utilize, not just the water fisherman use.
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firebird

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 11:45:59 AM »

The report at this link gives a general sense of numbers of steelhead in the Chilliwack River.
 http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/documents/r2210/chilliwack_adult_2001_1106349746675_e5c96f8eb41e4f4b8c1eb5150a80e5f7.pdf
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Dave

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 01:35:28 PM »

Thanks firebird for this data.
 Some good points have been raised in this thread, and I agree, a Vedder- Thompson comparison is not valid as Vedder fish donít have the interception issues as Interior steelhead stocks, and rearing areas are not compromised by water extraction in spawning tributaries.  Like BNF 861, I also question the wisdom of using an unknown percentage of the wild stock annually, and especially the taking of these fish from the closed area. If indeed bkk is correct and there are at least 1000 wild spawners, then removing 15% for broodstock doesnít seem so bad, but what if there are only 500 spawners Ė is that removal rate still acceptable to anglers?

I also question the catch and release mortality rate possibly being equal to 15% of the population Ė at 1000 fish that would mean 70 carcasses along the shores of the river.  I have spent over 50 years on this system either fishing, or counting steelhead, and I can honestly say I have seen less than 10 dead in all those years.  What concerns me more than actual mortalities is the real possibility that spawning success and gamete viability is negatively impacted (as it is in sockeye and other salmonids that undergo stress) from being caught multiple times.
Iím not naÔve enough to think the steelhead hatchery program will stop on the Vedder, because as already stated, the river is too close to too many people, but I would sure like to see some justification for the present management decisions regarding the hatchery program.
And that may be coming as Iím told the Province has applied for funding for adult float count enumerations for this system.

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GENERAL-SHERMAN

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2018, 03:41:14 PM »

Perhaps taking the stress off these fish being caught during certain times would be more beneficial to spawning and mortality numbers. Especially April and may. Personally I prefer not to beat up Kelts and spawner fish that have been hooked repeatedly for 3+ months. Yes fresh fish come in right through April but are the few worth the many? larger closures in certain sections of the river and less rod days could be more impactful in the long run to protect future stocks and reduce mortality rates.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:48:50 PM by GENERAL-SHERMAN »
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firebird

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2018, 04:00:55 PM »

Some more light reading here further to discussion of mortality
 
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/documents/r7003/ChilliwackSteelhead_Nelsonetal2004_1147453320035_f5d6b7c48e5149a085e3a9784657fed0.pdf

"This report presents the results of a two-year biotelemetry study designed to collect reliable information regarding the in-river temporal and spatial distribution of wild and hatchery adult steelhead related to migration and spawning activities in the Vedder/Chilliwack River, BC. The study was designed to provide estimates of mortality rates following release from conventional angling methods, plus estimates of survival-to-spawning and survival-to-kelt for these same fish. Additionally, estimates of recapture reates were determined through the establishment of an angler reporting process that included tag returns and a dedicated telephone line. The study was conducted in the winter and spring of both 1999 and 2000, and thus monitored two seperate year-runs of returning adult steelhead."
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firebird

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 04:09:02 PM »

And that may be coming as Iím told the Province has applied for funding for adult float count enumerations for this system.
... and angler/creel surveys and compliance monitoring, so I've heard.
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chris gadsden

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2018, 06:08:08 PM »


And that may be coming as Iím told the Province has applied for funding for adult float count enumerations for this system.
[/quote

Dave, float counts especially below the clay slides will be very difficult to do and get accurate numbers because of the turbidity of the water caused by the recent slides.

RalphH

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2018, 06:37:39 PM »

Some more light reading here further to discussion of mortality
 
http://a100.gov.bc.ca/appsdata/acat/documents/r7003/ChilliwackSteelhead_Nelsonetal2004_1147453320035_f5d6b7c48e5149a085e3a9784657fed0.pdf

the study has been around and discussed a lot in the past. I would only hope that all fish were treated as well by anglers when released as the tagged fish in this study.

Looking at some of the info on where spawning of the study fish took place it may be worth considering moving the closure downstream towards the crossing to protect fish on the redds below Slesse Creek. I have heard that suggested before and seeing that data makes me think there may be much sense in that. It would be a away to keep anglers from targeting fish that are about to or are actively spawning.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 06:38:25 AM by RalphH »
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milo

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 03:22:21 PM »

Might be a better idea to leave all the wild fish alone to do their thing ... ::)

Well said Dave.
Hopefully people will begin to look beyond their petty needs and see the big picture.

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avid angler

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 05:52:09 PM »

Iíd be surprised if thereís less then 1000 fish even on the worst of years. I doubt weíve seen more then 3k in a really long time.
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Noahs Arc

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 07:32:47 PM »

year to year around 5000 to 10000 steelhead return? I doubt.

Say in 20km fishable water along vedder, if there were 5000 steelhead, it means 25 fish every 100 meters. Then we don't need to struggle at all.

I think if you could see clearly just what was going on down there you would throw your rod in the water and go home.
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RalphH

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 08:28:13 PM »

those last 2 posts are chillingly perceptive.
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avid angler

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Re: 2018 Brood Capture Update.
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 09:53:07 PM »

Iím pretty pro fishing opportunity when it comes to the vedder/Chilliwack but I would support some sort of closure from Allison pools up from March 15th on. There is a ton of phenomenal spawning habitat that isnít being used because the fish just push through it all because of all the fishing pressure.

I think the rivers carrying capacity for steelhead would go way up if they had unharassed access to this section of river.
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