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[alwaysfishn]

Thanks Jonhill, Great info!

[gman]

Salmon farms are one possible reason why last years run went missing. It is clear that salmon farms in BC and around the world have had dramatic affects on various wild salmon runs. Over the years they seem to be getting a bit better, with fallow times of year, changing drug use etc to minimize affeccts, but there is still lots of potential for the same or new problems (different diseases etc). Alexandra Morton has put pressure onthe fish farmers to make positive changes - she has benefited wild salmon.

[newsman]

I my be wrong, but weren't the salmon farms fallowed when the smolts from this run went out to sea.

[aquapaloosa]

IMO
I think on average at the most at any time would be 25 % of farms being fowled at any time.  Having said this it is likely that many farms were active during smolt salt water introductions.
As it has been posted there are so many factors involved in ocean salmon survival.  But as it has been protested/funded etc. that salmon farms will be the demise of "wild" salmon, this sockeye run is just one more clear indicator that it may be possible for both salmon farms as they are today and four to five years ago, and "wild" salmon to co-exist.  Off course if you are a zero tolerance environmentalist that doesn't really eat food and never drives a car, or use plastic and tries to not breath to reduce carbon emissions etc, etc, but will except donations how ever they come than I understand that this thought is unexceptional.  That was a bit of a rant.

By the way salmon returns have been on the rise every since salmon farms started in bc in 1985. 
The skeena has no salmon farms and continues to have pour runs.
Salmon Farming is bc's #1 agricultural producer... this equals revenue for the province and taxpayers.  that  is a large contribution.
 
  Mrs Morton:

Stated that salmon farms were dead zones and years later is suing salmon farming companies for having pink smolts in pens.  Truth is salmon farms are teaming with sea life because they support it.
Predicted the collapse of pink salmon stocks.  This did not happen.
Changed governing powers from provincial to federal which changes nothing but claims otherwise.   
May not except american donations (anymore) but can not escape here intention to hands down get rid of salmon farms under the title of "wild" salmon.
When the pinks came back she swiftly slathered sockeye salmon with her dire "scientific" predictions.
What will it be next.  There is obviously going to be a shift in strategy.  From her record it is obvious.

  To make a claim that salmon farming is not the main concern for salmon ocean survival is wise but to suggest moving salmon farms to land is not so wise.  Maybe if it was a different species ya but salmon just cant be raise efficiently on land.  I strongly disagree with this claim even though it has been done does not make it financially viable though others will swear up and down that it is.  Ya I heard about it but having been in the business for 15 years I can state my opinion based on experience and it is not just possible.   If you think closed containment is a reasonable alternative you are again being miss lead by the organizations that have "don't forget to donate" at the bottom of all their literature. 

  To answer the stated question:  My guess is that they are wild salmon and that is what they do. I would love to think that this is the product of salmon management and pollution laws ect. Salmon are awesome and important and deserve attention, respect and management.  We all benefit when there are abundant salmon runs.  Sadly this massive sockeye run will bring sad stories of greed and waist and inefficiencies.

IMO

[BBarley]

By the way salmon returns have been on the rise every since salmon farms started in bc in 1985. 
The skeena has no salmon farms and continues to have pour runs.

Ummmm, care to back that up?

People all along the Skeena drainage fought tooth and nail to keep the farms out of the migration path of wild Skeena salmon. I'd love to see some documented proof, or even a hypothesis suggesting that the Skeena salmon runs could/would benefit from having open-net farms in the migration lanes.

Skeena steelhead numbers are tracking as the best this decade, amazing what years of dismal sockeye returns do for other species
Skeena coho have been on the rebound ever since the commercial boys agreed to reduce their catch in SE Alaska.

[Rodney]

Thread cleaned up. Let's back up a bit, focus on the actual debate instead of belittling the credibility of those who don't share the same views as you. The mods have very little tolerance when the discussion heads that way and have no problem with locking it if it continues.

[aquapaloosa]

Here is one example

http://www.greenspirit.com/pinksalmon/

And when I was referring to the skeena I should has stated socks.

[aquapaloosa]

Story about salmon declines where there are no salmon farms.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080129210349.htm

[aquapaloosa]

People all along the Skeena drainage fought tooth and nail to keep the farms out of the migration path of wild Skeena salmon. I'd love to see some documented proof, or even a hypothesis suggesting that the Skeena salmon runs could/would benefit from having open-net farms in the migration lanes.

There would be no such proof.  But it is a possibility that since there was fresh farmed salmon available on the market it reduced the financial/political drive to fish that area creating a positive effect.

[BBarley]

Considering that one lake produces anywhere from 85-95% of the Skeena sockeye return, the poor runs you mention need all the help they can get.
I also question the positive effect Atlantic salmon have had, seems the commercial boys have a fair amount of say when it comes to fisheries management anywhere on the coast.

Just to give an example, the Skeena Tyee Test Fishery which operates similar to the Albion Test Fishery, had a two day bump in sockeye numbers leading fisheries managers to believe 1,300,000 sockeye we're coming back, which would allow a harvestable surplus and a one day opening was allowed. The numbers then dropped off and the overall estimate is now at 950,000 sockeye which DFO has stated is below the escapement target that allows for commercial fisheries.......oops.

If there is more salmon than DFO deems needed, they will be scooped up by somebody somewhere regardless supply and demand.

[Gooey]

Story about salmon declines where there are no salmon farms.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080129210349.htm

All that proves is in that area, it was something else other than a farm...coninue to read and:

from the link provided:
The reason for the decline is unclear. Both hatchery and naturally produced fish have been negatively affected, and returns of coastal stocks in Oregon, in the Columbia River, and in British Columbia were all low in 2007. The decline seems to be a coastwide phenomenon, probably related to ocean conditions.


In fact in that link under related stories:

Dramatic Declines In Wild Salmon Populations Linked To Exposure To Farmed Salmo - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080212085841.htm

"Comparing the survival of wild salmonid populations in areas near salmon farms with unexposed populations reveals a large reduction in survival in the populations reared near salmon farms."

[jon5hill]

All that proves is in that area, it was something else other than a farm...coninue to read and:

from the link provided:
The reason for the decline is unclear. Both hatchery and naturally produced fish have been negatively affected, and returns of coastal stocks in Oregon, in the Columbia River, and in British Columbia were all low in 2007. The decline seems to be a coastwide phenomenon, probably related to ocean conditions.


In fact in that link under related stories:

Dramatic Declines In Wild Salmon Populations Linked To Exposure To Farmed Salmo - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080212085841.htm

"Comparing the survival of wild salmonid populations in areas near salmon farms with unexposed populations reveals a large reduction in survival in the populations reared near salmon farms."

Gooey, you're doing it all wrong. The way to do research is to only read the stuff you agree with and completely ignore the rest.

[gordc]

Or you could just read the stuff from Suzuki or Morton where the editting /omitting of data is already done for you

[jon5hill]

Or you could just read the stuff from Suzuki or Morton where the editting /omitting of data is already done for you

Or you could do like I have done, reading all sources including academic literature, aquaculture proponent magazines, fisheries and oceans gray literature, news paper articles, salmon management literature meta-analysis, attend symposiums and seminars that discuss these issues, as well as critically think for yourself - and then come up with a conclusion. Alternatively, you can have a "gut feeling" and go with it, we all know how well those stand up in debates.

[gordc]

The comment was sacrastic.  I will admit to not spending as much time reading literature as you have mainly due to the fact that I spend almost all of my available time away from work with my family.  This perhaps makes you a more informed person on the subject than I but certainly doesn't warrant the elitist attitude you so often present.  Just my opinion.  I think there are many elitists that live on this forum.