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[dnibbles]

Do you think only good spring bottom bouncers are gonna be out there, give me a break, Yesterday there were no FN nets out up this way but lots of bottom bouncers In places that catch sockeye using methods that catch sockeye maybe there should be some sort of test to see who's a good spring bottom bouncer and who isn't , or just put a leader restriction on and just about totally eliminate any bycatch. We can't do anything about what the DFO and the the natives do between themselves  but we can clean up our act as sportfishers.

Hear Hear.

Anglers should be spearheading the way and setting an example for being responsible and conservationally minded users.

It doesnt matter the numbers of other users. The fact remains that anglers are stubbornly snagging fish when they could be using much much more selective measures that have been very very successful of late for chinook.

I wasnt aware that people have snagging down to an art where they can selectively hook certain species!?!?! 

Dont play the numbers game! Sure, nets are potentially very bad, Im not taking that fact away, but dont use that as an excuse to behave poorly as well. Only the fish lose when people do that. 

Well said 2:40. It comes across as childish to me when bottom bouncers play the "well, if they're breaking the rules, then I should be allowed to as well" game. Do you want to be part of the problem, or part of the solution? Anglers should be leading the way, not getting dragged into the same messes that have been afflicting our fisheries for so long.

[nosey]

I'd sure go for a stationary fishing only or a leader length restriction, this voluntary thing is not working, I saw more than 40 bottom bouncers between Hope and Laidlaw coming home just now and ther were a few of the more popular spots I couldn't see from the road. I also saw quite a few sockeye breaking the last few days

[buck]

Close the sockeye fishery for good as it has turned into nothing but a gong show. As for flossing /BB ban it as well and go to Bar fishing / fixed weight only. Prior to the sockeye fishery things were much more civilized on the river. I'll bet DFO would like to return to the good old days.

[Gooey]

I bet a lot of flossers mainly fish the sockeye run each summer not spending as much energy on fall salmon or steelhead...as well the sockeye run is not a hard fishery to have success with so it is a good draw for new fishers too. 

"Good old days"?? Unless you are talking of run sizes, I don't think DFO cares about the "good old days"!   Do you think gov. wants to turn its back on all the cash generated from those licenses and salmon tags?  Thats really what drives them.

I know a gentleman who managed the allocation of sockeye quotas for 5-8 years back in the 80's as I recall.  His comments to me was that the sport impact was always so INSIGNIFICANT that our getting a crack at those fish was never even a question (during his time anyways).  I don't think that our impact on the stock has changed that much since then in terms of how many fish are take VS the total run size.

Bottom line is that the sports sector is so small in comparison to the native & commercial fishery that DFO can't expect us not to fish if there isn't a total river closure.

I wonder how many of the bar fishers who actively go against flossing have access to a boat?  My feeling is that if they faced the same constraints as all the flossers fishing walk in bars, they may have to come down off their high horse and be a little more open minded.

[Rieber]

Man - give this issue a rest. I'll fish the way I want to fish and you fish the way you want to fish. As long as they're both within the regulations why is there an issue.

The regulation is the problem not the method.

I love the activity involved in BB-ing and I like my red springs canned. I find Bar fishing boring. If they change the regulation then I'll find away to make bar fishing less boring if I still want red springs for canning.

Don't preach to me about BB-ing or try make me out to be some sort of law breaker because I like to BB. I'll do it as long as we can because it's an fun way for me to legally catch the fish I love to eat. If BB-ing becomes illegal then I'll stop it and find another legal way to catch them.

[Steelhawk]

Way to go, Rieber. Stand up & be counted, BBers.  If you look at the numbers at the bar, BBers are definitely the majority. In the democratic society of Canada, the majority rules. 

Unless DFO outlaws BBing, there is no reason to stop fishing the way majority of the Fraser fishers like to fish. BBing is not blind fishing. Good BBers can map out the bottom of the river by boucning with great skill. That is why in any BBing bars, you will find only a few who consistently catch fish, particularly springs, while others fail. My friend (a forum member) was into 11 springs hookups in two trips and there was not one sockeye touched. Most people were skunked but not him, times after times. No name will be forthcoming as he wants to fish in peace. I think in the end, people have to respect other fishers' choice of fishing method as long as it is permitted under the law.

Like I said in another thread, if every BBer turns into a bar-fisher because BBing is outlawed due to the relentless lobbying by a few bar-fishers who are politically well connected to the authority, then the bar fishers will find their favourite holes or 'private islands' invaded with people without casting room. Each bar fisher requires much more space separation from each other as compared to BBers. Good BBers are known to sychronize their casts when standing less than a rod's length apart.

In terms of conservation, I just don't witness any sockeyes caught in the bar I went whereas FN catch them & keep them massively, endangered or not. If the stock is that endangered so that even an incidental catch & release is too much, then FN should stop as they have no priority over conservation. Even test fisheries should stop. Oh well, should bar-fishing go on? Good luck! I don't think so. The method still catch sockeyes and the poor thing has to drag up to 1 lb of lead during the fight as compared to our 2-3 oz.  A bar caught sockeye is a dead fish indeed.

[marshal]

Have a read of Eagleye's post via the link below.
Right on the money!

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=11008.0

[bkk]

The regulation is the problem not the method.




That seems to be the main theme in this thread. After sitting on Sport Fish Advisory Boards for many years I have asked why the regulations can not be more clear on this issue. Why post a request to fish selectivly when you could word the regulation to eliminate the bottom bouncing      ( after all, is this not the intent of the current regulation?) The answer I have received many times is that DFO does not have the regultory power to put that type of regulation in place. To get a stationary weight regulation in place they have to vet the regulation thru the Sportfish Advisory Boards ( public consultation) and then to Ottawa. Evidently that is a multi year process.

As I see it, this issue revolves more around ethics than anything else. And how do you regulate ethics. Very hard because what is acceptable to one is not to another. I have been told that is one of the reasons DFO does not want to "get into the tackel box of the anglers". Their more concerned with the big picture issues such as allocation. The sport fishery allocation for sockeye, pink and chum in 2006 for the South Coast is 5 % of the total catch. This info was gleamed from the 2006 South Coast Management Plan document that was released a couple of weeks back. So with the exception of threatened stocks, the sockeye sport fishery is a non-issue as it's just an allocation to a user group. So now your back to how to allow the chinook fishery while the early Stuart sockeye are in the Fraser? Toatal closure or a regulation that is open to interpertation? I think that unless DFO gets lots of comments/suggestions from the public on this issue, your just going to see more of these regulations in the future.

 Prior to the sockeye fishery things were much more civilized on the river. I'll bet DFO would like to return to the good old days.

I have to agree with Buck, Im sure a lot of people in DFO wish this whole mess would just go away.

[Old Black Dog]

This thread comes up every year, just like clockwork.

Sportsfishermen get 5% of the commercial catch numbers. get over it.

You who feel that the sportsfishermen are killing the runs are out to lunch.

However you might be responsible for killing runs of fish due to urbanization and water.

What about houses and cottages on these rivers that are creating problems?

What about all the cottages/ houses on Cultus Lake? Are you prepared to up your taxes so they can buy out everyone of these and put it back to the way it was prior to man?

If you want to do something constructive as opposed to ranting on about this get involved.

Get involved on water rights, river restoration etc.

That will help to ensure there are fish in the future.

[All Tangled Up]

Well said World Famous! However, take a look at the posts regarding the defenders of BB'ing and I don't think you'll find anyone posing to be a 'Sport Fisherman'. This technique is the best way to put meat on the plate or jammed in a can.(Other than a net) I partake in BB'ing Springs and Soxs every year, and have never once left the river with my limit thinking I enticed the fish to bite or had any great skill displayed to catch them. It is purely for the enjoyment of the great outdoors and the filling of my belly. Those people who choose not to BB have every right to tell me this style of fishing is not sporting. I agree with them. I on the other hand don't see the sporting aspect of tossing a 16oz weight into the Fraser, grabbing your six pack, sitting back relaxing in your lawn chair waiting for the bell to ring. It probably is more of a social thing and great times are had by all, but I like to be a little more active in my snag...fishing than that.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. "Shut the whole river down if it's that important".

[buck]

Fun Fish
You mentioned that your fishing buddy was into 11 springs in two outings. Catch and release at temperatures approching 19 degrees could be lethal to chinook or sockeye after release. Although these fish may appear to be fine at release they have expended a large amount of energy . One of my pet pevees is anglers telling me about the 20 - 30 sockeye, and numerous chinook that they have released during a single outing.These anglers are not aware of how stress is affecting these animals or they don't care. How about catching your limit for the day and then going home. As for not seeing any sockeye being caught BB thats because there are so few. Early Stuart run size has been downgraded from 84K. Only 12 k have past Mission so far and some of those fish are headed for the Vedder River.
I'm not anti BB as I have done my share, but lets not kill fish becuse we want to impress our buddies.
Fishery stats said sports anglers killed 40 k sockeye last year and release 70k. How many of those fish released actually made it to the spawning ground ? If temperatures were near 20 degree C, not many. Temperatures are already 21  degree C in the Stuart River which will most certainly be lethal to a large % of adults.

[BwiBwi]

For recreational fishery, no matter what method you fish. You will catch sockeye once in a while. C&R will cause death. However, not 100.  Unlike FN netting, which is 100% mortality rate let it be sockeye or chinook.

[Steelhawk]

No body said my friend C&R springs for fun. He just hooked into that many springs but could not land until he landed one. One spring emptied his whole spool. In this aspect of failing to land a hooked spring, there is no difference between BBing & bar fishing. Springs are not easy to land by either method.  At least springs hooked by BBing do not have to drag a lb of lead along which depletes their much needed energy for long migration.

[All Tangled Up]

Some people just don't read before they post. Don't take offence funfish.

[liketofish]

It is human nature to think all is well with my choice but not yours. Bar fishing folks will not think for a second that their fishing method, however unintentional, will still harm fish survival. No method is perfect. They just point the finger the other way at all cost because they don't like our method for whatever reason. It is useless to debate over ethics. If the law allows it, so be it.