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[psd1179]

I saw the comments below Rodney's facebook. looks someone has bar fishing since October. it isn't allowed to bar fishing with salmon fishing closed, is it?

[Rodney]

Fishing for salmon is closed, but fishing isn't closed. Unlike the non-tidal portion, fishing for non-salmon species including trout is still open in the tidal portion and bait can be used.

[wildmanyeah]

I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.

"In recent seasons the river would open for Rec. HM Coho retention when it opens for Chum retention.  However, given current historically low in-season abundance status of Fraser Chum returns (Ref. FN1150: Fraser Chum Update),  there are no plans this season to open Fraser mainstem for Chum.  It also looks like Coho encounters at Albion TF continue to be very low in recent days, including this past weekend."

My response.

"That response frankly frustrates me quite a bit for a couple of reasons. In the past twenty years+ years, we have had years when hatchery coho salmon retention is open while chum salmon fishing is closed in the Lower Fraser River. Even right now, we have hatchery coho salmon retention available while chum salmon fishing is closed in terminal fisheries in the Lower Fraser tributaries, so I can’t see why this isn’t possible in the Lower Fraser. Does the department know what the incidental by-catch of chum salmon by rec anglers while targeting coho salmon in the Lower Fraser? From my own personal experiences, fishing in the tidal portion from 1995 to 2015, my total number of chum salmon encounters was in the single digit while targeting coho salmon. They simply don’t bite, like sockeye salmon.

Secondly, why does it matter what the Albion TF numbers are when determining the hatchery coho salmon rec opening in the Lower Fraser? Our group is looking for opportunities to recreate, and we do not have a harvest goal or number that we want to achieve. Opening this fishery up would only benefit the entire Region 2 community. For one, it provides opportunities for those who have no access to the terminal fisheries (senior anglers, family with little kids, those who cannot drive). Two, it spreads effort out and takes pressure off the few terminal fisheries that we have at the moment."

Same BS excuses for pinks, but for pinks it was there not enough in the river yet, now for hatchery coho it's oh there no longer is enough left in the river. 

Then it came out (in a meeting) that FN really just requested DFO to not open any rec fishing for salmon and the RDG was accommodating that request.

That's really how all the management has changed, has to go through 100 people and also get FN approval.  If it wasn't for the hatchery rivers we would have nothing all the wild fish are allocated to FN on a priority bases.  Now even hatchery coho, you may intercept a chum and if you do that then will have to give first nations more chum fisheries, and because abundance is low were trying to limit FSC chum fishery's, so there for people fishing for hatchery coho in the lower fraser cant fish.

everyone was so proud when pinks were not opening i'm doing my part, im part of the solution fish first, i don't care if it does not open it's not my OX that's being ghored 

BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

[Wiseguy]

And yet DFO is keeping the Stave open with tons of anglers twitching jigs and catching lots of chums which are being mishandled by getting dragged up on shore before being released. Lots of poaching going on there as well with chum being bonked and kept as well the females slit open and the roe removed. DFO you are incompetent and will mismanage our salmon fisheries into extinction just like you did with the East Coast cod fishery.

[Fish Assassin]

Does DFO really believe the garbage they're spewing ?

[Woody Debris]

My response.

... Does the department know what the incidental by-catch of chum salmon by rec anglers while targeting coho salmon in the Lower Fraser? From my own personal experiences, fishing in the tidal portion from 1995 to 2015, my total number of chum salmon encounters was in the single digit while targeting coho salmon. They simply don’t bite, like sockeye salmon.

Secondly, why does it matter what the Albion TF numbers are when determining the hatchery coho salmon rec opening in the Lower Fraser?

Oh they bit alright. Once i deliberately targeted chum in the North arm a couple miles upstream of the Knight Street bridge. The return was supposed to be very large so i timed my trip for the flood and turn to fish the dropping ebb. lots of chum were rolling when i got there but chucking an orange hued Croc spoon didn't give me any luck. then they started swirling near shore against a rip rap bank so I targeted those. I landed 3 chum in 20 minutes and it was over. They were as booty as the ones 60 miles upriver. I have seen the odd one caught on bait while bar fishing.

However I had it from a reliable source that a few anglers used to catch easy limits back in the 90s when the ebb was running fast after a high flood tide using a 4.5 inch Tomic plug like this: 



I was told they fished them in the current on a bar rig at Nelson Road and some other Richmond Bars. I still have a couple of those but never gave them a try.

Anyone check the Albion test fishery coho catch? About 12 fish since Oct 1 mostly in the 1st week.

Oh, as a blast from the past, here is a photo of my wife's Grandfather bar fishing the Fraser (guess the bar) that was featured in The Province newspaper in 1973 with a caption that he was "trying to catch a fish before a nasty cold! Notice how crowded the bar is.

[Wiseguy]

Cool photo. My Dad made the cover of the Surrey Leader back in the day. “Fishing the Fraser for 50 years” was the caption. Him and a bunch of colourful characters regularly fished Brownsville bar back in the day. Thanks for sharing the photo. Cheers.

[Fish Assassin]

Those were the good old days.

[clarki]

I've had a response to my enquiries this morning.

Great response, Rodney. You’ve earned the right to be heard by DFO. Thanks for fighting the good fight on behalf of rec anglers.

[Woody Debris]

know it was about the chinook. Not a surprise.  The proposed early pink opening was a red herring. The Fns have had a similar deal on the Skeena for a few years now. The FNs  do get the gears from a few jerks. Boats have been vandalized and other stuff.

It was not about rec chinook openings it was about FN conducting gillnet chinook fishery's in the river and not wanting Rec fishermen on the water fishing for pinks at the same time.

yes we know your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol

...

I don't see what the problem you have with this is? No where does it state or even imply " your narrative the rec fishermen the great evil of our society lol". That's very close to libel. Quite the opposite! it refers to a few "jerks".  Also never referred to any angler as "a bank maggot" . Pointing out that the fall bar fishery was closed until Nov 15th is just a fact as is the fact FNs on the Skeena have gotten a blanket salmon angling closure during their major harvest openings.

Problem is a few people here can't deal with these bad turns without getting angry, irrationally angry. Nobody asks DFO why they didn't issue a notice that the bar fishery would remain closed because the chum return was low. No one also bothers ask if that possible closure isn't listed in the IMP which says the IFS closure window lifts on Nov 1 below Port Mann and Nov 2nd below Mission. At a minimum DFO can do a better job of communicating

[Chum Slayer]

I don't get it, in the states they have dozens of quality steelhead and salmon fisheries for the public. While up here in BC we really only have 8 . I think the DFO need to actually create opportunity instead of taking it away. If not BC will eventually become like the UK with a pay to fish system for Salmon and steelhead. Imagine paying 2000 dollars a day to fish for salmon during the peak run!

[Woody Debris]

there are only 8 quality salmon or steelhead fisheries in BC? What are they?

There are probably well over 8 in the Skeena watershed alone.

[Chum Slayer]

Sorry let me clarify I meant fisheries near population centers, not everyone has the money to drive or fly to the Skeena. For some people, the only option to fish for salmon is on the Fraser. Also, the Skeena is having low returns of steelhead and salmon which also limits angler opportunity and even if it is open is it even ethical to target them? If you want to save wild populations of fish you need to create other opportunities, look at our lake fisheries for example. Plenty of nice harvest fisheries to create quality opportunities combined with trophy fisheries. In the lower mainland, we could easily stock more fisheries with hatchery, chinook, coho, and pink salmon.

[Woody Debris]

. In the lower mainland, we could easily stock more fisheries with hatchery, chinook, coho, and pink salmon.

any specific examples?

In general Fisheries biology has turned away from hatchery augmentation to preservation of wild fisheries, too many drawbacks.However management regimes may not be adhering to the later goal for a variety of reasons. Hatchery supplementation is not cheap either. Our measly license fees gets us access to quite a cornucopia and a cheap source of protein when the returns are good. Back in the mid 70s a hatchery steelhead cost about $7 for a fish that returned to it's natal river. Not factoring in the decline productivity (from around 10% to 2% on average ) that would optimistically  be about $40 to $50 today. Less for coastal springs or chums which don't have to be held and fed for a year.

[Chum Slayer]

Kanaka creek, Coquitlam river and the Little Campbell come to mind for hatchery salmon, specifically more springs, coho and chum. Although already stocked it would make sense to put more fish into a river that is close to a major population center. On the steelhead side of things Kanaka Creek, Nicomen Slough, Harrison River, Squamish, and the once-great Chehalis could use some fish. We could use Vedder River fish as broodstock for the salmon fisheries and some of the steelhead fisheries (hatchery steelhead for broodstock, no usage of wild fish). Specifically on the Kanaka, Nicomen, Little Campbell, and Coquitlam. However, for the Harrison, Chehalis, and Squamish, it would be better to start a broodstock program and then slowly shift it to only taking hatchery fish.