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[Fatso]

Why isn't there the same outrage when a river is ruined for 50years, as there is when a few Indians are "illegally" catching a renewable resource to help supplement their income?  Where's the outrage?  Where's the posse? 

[Spudcote]

One was an accident...not that it makes it any better. 

[DragonSpeed]

Why isn't there the same outrage when a river is ruined for 50years, as there is when a few Indians are "illegally" catching a renewable resource to help supplement their income?  Where's the outrage?  Where's the posse? 

It happened.  It's still happening.  When dealing with corporations the outrage tends to be more with the lawers than with the mouth.  groups of individuals tend to be less inclined to react to a bunch of lawyers.

[Fatso]

One was an accident and one was on purpose.   And one is in the right, and the other was caused because the perpetrator was contributorally negligent.  "OOOOps, we didn't see anything.  Mind you  we weren't looking either".  The one where the perpetrator was negligent, ie the Railway,  also happened to kill the river for 50 year, (which is a lifetime if you're already 50 years old like me).  And nobody wants to "lynch" anybody.  Whereas Indians catching a few fish, or sockeye flossers, garner a whole lot of people up in arms.  Alls I'm asking is, where's the big posse that chastise the Indians for feeding themselves.  Should the posse be at least equally as vigilant against CN? 

[BwiBwi]

CN gets fined. They have to work with fishery department on restoration. There is 'input' back to the system.
FN take no give. That is a big difference.

[Fatso]

BwiBwi, what should an appropriate fine be for decimating a river?  Any fines imposed will amount to a slap on the wrist and just be considered a "cost of doing business" by CN.  Meanwhile these fines will not reflect the true cost to the residents on the river, the environment, the fish stocks, tourism industry, recreational fisherpeople, etc.  It amounts to wanton waste that nobody benefits from except the railway, and the lawyers. 

Meanwhile, there are Indians just trying to make an honest living.  They aren't getting rich taking a few sockeye.  They are using a renewable resource that they have a right to use. 

Dragonspeed, I agree that the public are less likely to be up in arms against a bunch of lawyers who are virtually invisible.  It's too tough.  However, it's easier to bully a visible minority with little or no voice, especially when they're poor. 

In my opinion, the Indians and the recreational fisherman are on the same side.  The public should be all over CN Railway   

[BwiBwi]

Ouch, derailment does not benefit the railway. They are at mercy of low cost economy. And to think it's all CN's fault is not right. What do we need the government for? And why is there safety board and department of transporation? They are there to ensure if a disaster occurs their duty is to prevent it from occuring again.
1 st derailment bad on CN's part
2nd derailment, bad on CN and the government
3rd derailment, where the heck is the government?

You kept on saying FN are honest people trying to make a living. Well there maybe some of them that abides to law and that means keeping within their fishing timeframe and quantity. If they go over their allowance than it's not honest people trying to make a living.

[marmot]

Not that im disagreeing with you fatso...just interested in what source gave you the information that the river will be decimated for 50 years.

[Eagleye]

Although the former minister of transportation did limit the lenght of cars in response to the derailments his regulation was far too leniant because it only limits the lenght of conventional trains with locomotives at the front of the train to 80 cars.  The derailments are occuring on 125 car distributed power trains which are not affected by the new regulation. 

just interested in what source gave you the information that the river will be decimated for 50 years.

Vancouver Sun article:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=131bb0e1-83d2-465d-aaff-9d3bc8d78784&k=54535

[marmot]

Thanks for that!  Though the sun is usually crap (just my opinion) I can beleive it.

[Fatso]

thanks for posting that Eagleye.

BwiBwi, I believe the problem that we have today is people not taking responsibility for their own actions.  The Railway should operate as a responsible citizen and we shouldn't have to rely on the government to make the rules, rules that can always be bent.  However, the Railway will cut corners by not maintaining the tracks and tressles.  They will also make the trains too long to operate safely.  In effect they are gambling that they can move freight cheaper.  The occasional derailment is just a  nuisance to the railway, so long as there are no substantial fines or reparation levys.  To the railway it's a "cost of doing business" that has already been factored into the "bottom line".

1 st derailment bad on CN's part
2nd derailment, bad on CN and the government
3rd derailment, where the heck is the government?

Also BwiBwi, derailments are up in 2005.  If I remember correctly, I believe there were some 150 derailments in Canada last year. And something like 140 the year before.  One of the most notable ones was the one that happened on the Kettle River that also killed two railway workers.  The Railway plead guilty, or was found guilty of negligence in that they didn't maintain the trestle properly.  These aren't accidents.  Accidents are unforeseeable consequences.  These are acts of negligence. 

First rule...." do not rely on the government to do something right.  they will only do what is politically correct for themselves".

So my point is, it seems that it's quite OK for a Railway, or some other corporation, to kill people and the environment so that they can improve their bottom line, but it's not alright for Indians to feed themselves by properly using a renewable resource.  People of the Forum, we, and the Indians, are on the same side of the battle.  Let's not fight between us.  Let's direct our energy at the real culprits.   

[Fatso]

here's another beauty 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050803.wderail0803/BNStory/National/

[Eagleye]

but it's not alright for Indians to feed themselves by properly using a renewable resource. 

I don't think anyone on this forum has a problem with the natives catching fish for food.  The problem is they are catching way more than they could possibly eat and selling it.  The resource is only renewable if enough fish make it back to spawn. 

The Railway should operate as a responsible citizen and we shouldn't have to rely on the government to make the rules, rules that can always be bent.

I wish the natives would fish responsibly so we wouldn't have to rely on dfo/government/courts to make the rules, rules that they bend!