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[firstlight]

The province is dead set against hatchery fish spawning with wild fish. Hatchery fish are abominations to them that need to be killed.

They are all Hatchery fish now.
Even the ones with adipose fins.

[Rodney]

The long term enhancement objective has been to produce about as many returning hatchery fish as wild fish so increasing the that doesn't make a lot of sense. I also wonder if there is capacity at the hatchery to increase the number significantly.

Where are you getting this information from? There is a hatchery smolt target, which has been 125,000 each year and has not changed in a long time. I’ve never heard of that long term objective. All the discussions have been around getting a more accurate picture of the population size and figure out whether the hatchery program is extracting too many adults for broodstock.

[CohoJake]

If the goal is to remove hatchery fish from the system, why not also impose mandatory retention of hatchery fish?  That would also prevent all day C&R of wild fish after catching a hatchery fish.

[RalphH]

Where are you getting this information from? There is a hatchery smolt target, which has been 125,000 each year and has not changed in a long time. I’ve never heard of that long term objective. All the discussions have been around getting a more accurate picture of the population size and figure out whether the hatchery program is extracting too many adults for broodstock.

My memory is that is what was stated in some of the papers derived from the radio tag studies that were done, what about 15 years ago? At that time they though the LTA for wild fish was about 2,000 fish (?) that return on 125k hatchery smolts works out to about 1.5 to 2% adult return.

[Rodney]

The radio tagging was done in 2000 I believe, 20 years ago already yikes.

I've asked Mike to comment on it. Also, he wants me to share this chart with everyone. This is the river's catch and effort on steelhead based on the steelhead questionnaire people mail back.



Number of angling days per fish caught have not changed over the years, therefore they believe increasing the daily quota to two would not change angling pressure.

My concern isn’t that we’d see a surge of anglers or angling days if we change the daily quota, but more how much more time anglers would spend on the waters when they are out on any particular day. Current reg means they’d get their hatchery fish, maybe first thing in the morning, or by Noon, then head home right away. With the daily quota of 2, you’d get people sticking around for the rest of the day, trying to retain another one, or just wanting to catch and release until they have to go home. This would become especially frustrating on days when fish are concentrated at certain locations where people would just fence post all day.

[wildmanyeah]

Number of angling days per fish caught have not changed over the years, therefore they believe increasing the daily quota to two would not change angling pressure.

My concern isn’t that we’d see a surge of anglers or angling days if we change the daily quota, but more how much more time anglers would spend on the waters when they are out on any particular day. Current reg means they’d get their hatchery fish, maybe first thing in the morning, or by Noon, then head home right away. With the daily quota of 2, you’d get people sticking around for the rest of the day, trying to retain another one, or just wanting to catch and release until they have to go home. This would become especially frustrating on days when fish are concentrated at certain locations where people would just fence post all day.

From what i can tell most the people on local social media want it to stay at 1 fish a day. Tho i don't think it has anything to do with increased pressure i think it has more to do with they view it as more competition with the top anglers.

If a pro shows up on friday and takes his two, that's one less for the next guy on saturday. There is a finite amount of returning fish and everyone always says the majority of fish are caught by the top 5% of anglers. 

if the province goal is to kill more hatchery fish faster, then letting the pros keep more will accomplish that.

[RalphH]

Does "angling days" or "Effort in days fished" reflect days per hour? Where the potential for increased pressure is that if people stay on the river after catching and killing a hatchery fish  whereas previously they'd go home or go somewhere else (believe it or not folks there are other places!) that will increase the number of angling on the river banks at any given time.

Rod there had been previous attempts to estimate the total number of returning fish. There was one published back in the 70s (IIRC) that put it at about 5,000 fish. Of course averages are just that - year to year it may vary wildly. Also be interested in how the angler success rate has changed over the years. FWIW when I go to the river, which isn't often. I seldom speak to an angler who has caught or hooked a fish. More often they don't even see or talk to a person who has hooked one. The old adage that 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the fish may be more true than ever.

[stsfisher]

The radio tagging was done in 2000 I believe, 20 years ago already yikes.

I've asked Mike to comment on it. Also, he wants me to share this chart with everyone. This is the river's catch and effort on steelhead based on the steelhead questionnaire people mail back.



Number of angling days per fish caught have not changed over the years, therefore they believe increasing the daily quota to two would not change angling pressure.

My concern isn’t that we’d see a surge of anglers or angling days if we change the daily quota, but more how much more time anglers would spend on the waters when they are out on any particular day. Current reg means they’d get their hatchery fish, maybe first thing in the morning, or by Noon, then head home right away. With the daily quota of 2, you’d get people sticking around for the rest of the day, trying to retain another one, or just wanting to catch and release until they have to go home. This would become especially frustrating on days when fish are concentrated at certain locations where people would just fence post all day.

Angler effort has not changed in the last 4 years but I would bet the angler effort graph would be much higher ( maybe closer to the 50 000) mark demonstrated around 2012 if 2 fish were once again allowed. I personally like the 1 and done regulation and feel allowing 2 hatchery fish per day hurts the anglers who hate fence posting on known lower river sections. The kind of anglers looking to keep 2 steelhead a day are not the anglers who care about the QUALITY of their experience on the water.
I thought the idea behind the 1 and done regulation put in place was to ensure a quality fishing experience for ALL anglers. If guys need 2 hatchery fish a day they can drive to another system. When did the steelhead season turn into a meat fishery? I sure hope the number of returning steelhead equals 50% of the salmon return daily to support a 50% harvest of what the salmon retention is daily in the fall.  GOOD GOD help us! Oh, when will the surplus hatchery fish be allocated to FSC harvest if we think there is a surplus for rec anglers?
 
I support the Tamihi closure in April, but do not support the 2 hatchery fish a day.

[Rodney]

Lots of feedbacks being provided here but you need to send them in to the fish and wildlife head office.

To do this, go to:

https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/chilliwackvedder-rivers

Click on login and log in with your BCeID.

Once you are logged in, in that link above, scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll find three options for you to choose - Support, neutral, oppose.

Choose your option, then a field will become available for you to provide your feedback before sending it.

[stsfisher]

From what i can tell most the people on local social media want it to stay at 1 fish a day. Tho i don't think it has anything to do with increased pressure i think it has more to do with they view it as more competition with the top anglers.

If a pro shows up on friday and takes his two, that's one less for the next guy on saturday. There is a finite amount of returning fish and everyone always says the majority of fish are caught by the top 5% of anglers. 

if the province goal is to kill more hatchery fish faster, then letting the pros keep more will accomplish that.

Pro's......... I wonder if there might have been 8 fish weighed in the Boxing day derby if these pros could have kept 2 each?

[wildmanyeah]

Pro's......... I wonder if there might have been 8 fish weighed in the Boxing day derby if these pros could have kept 2 each?

so if we went to two a day only 6 more people would of been fishing longer on boxing day lol. Are you really concerned about 6 more people sending the day on the water?

[stsfisher]

so if we went to two a day only 6 more people would of been fishing longer on boxing day lol. Are you really concerned about 6 more people sending the day on the water?

Ok the boxing day derby is a bad example, however over a season we are taking about a lot of extra rod day effort.
 
I am not worried about any anglers if you are asking in the context of competing for fish that I may or may not encounter in a day.

[Silex-user]

Thanks for posting this Rod. I going to send in my 2 bits reply. I remember the 80's and 90's retention of 2 steelheads a day on Chilliwack-Vedder system. Not fun. Meat fishermen would fence post on all the popular meat holes.


Silex-user

[bigblockfox]

i think the boundary rule change is a great idea. i have personally witness steelhead pairing up well before the hatchery on more than one occasion.

i think the daily quota should stay at 1. i know a few individuals who dont abide by the current rules. think if you were fishing with a pair. could hand off fish to others. dont like it. then think about the procession limits. 2 guys could harvest 8 fish. if their were good numbers of fish i wouldn't care but that is not the case.

[Dave]

I believe a concern of the Province is if the Tamihi closure is put in place, the possibility of hatchery fish spawning with wild fish, or together, is more probable, having a month’s less angling pressure.   The 2000 telemetry study that showed hatchery fish were spawning then in this area and I suspect have been spawning there since.  It is possible spawning hatchery fish are a considerable component to our later run unclipped fish.

So the question is, does the closure, the good in this case (less pressure on unclipped fish) outweigh the bad (more clipped fish spawning)?