Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bigsnag]

Lol what. Removing the hatcheries in the lower mainland would more or less be the end of lower mainland salmon and steelhead fishing.

Removing the hatcheries in the lower mainland would be the end of lower mainland salmon and steelhead fishing.

[RalphH]

again the thread goes off the rails. I also don't agree that closing hatcheries would end salmon and steelhead fishing in the FV. It wouldn't even be the end of retention. However it would change it significantly and it may drive many people out of the pastime. That said I don't think it wil happen at least any time soon. If ocean survival stays low or worse continues to decline, economics will end the hatchery model as we know it.

[wildmanyeah]

I also don't agree that closing hatcheries would end salmon and steelhead fishing in the FV.\

What salmon fishery would be open? Sockeye on "abundant years"?

[RalphH]

there is little or no hatchery enhancement of Atlantic on the East Coast or in Europe yet there is a sport fishery. On top of that Atlantic Salmon are in no better and perhaps worse shape than Pacific Salmon. Anglers can also retain salmon in some areas.

There are many streams here in LM/FV that have no hatchery enhancement yet you can fish for salmon & steelhead and in some cases wild fish can be retained. So I don't buy that salmon and steelhead fishing would end here if hatchery programs were closed down.

FWIW we are now going down that road with anadromous cutthroat.

[Hike_and_fish]

there is little or no hatchery enhancement of Atlantic on the East Coast or in Europe yet there is a sport fishery. On top of that Atlantic Salmon are in no better and perhaps worse shape than Pacific Salmon. Anglers can also retain salmon in some areas.

There are many streams here in LM/FV that have no hatchery enhancement yet you can fish for salmon & steelhead and in some cases wild fish can be retained. So I don't buy that salmon and steelhead fishing would end here if hatchery programs were closed down.

FWIW we are now going down that road with anadromous cutthroat.

I honestly can not name one flow in the LM or FV where you can retain a wild steelhead or wild Coho. Just wild Chum. And the Harrison for Chinook ( if it's open).

[RalphH]

there aren't any. But you can retain chum pink and chinook, some years. Ditto for the saltwater. I believe some coho population could in good years  could support a modest retention of wild fish. Same with steelhead I believe though we have hypnotized ourselves otherwise.

I should also mention we have quite nice Bulltrout fisheries that are not hatchery enhanced and are c&r only. We could porbably take a few fish
for supper in that fishery as well.

Like I said many people would quite possibly stop fishing locally in such a circumstance.

[Dave]

Really Ralph?
I believe we are talking LM, right? on what system do you think anglers could retain wild steelhead?
Is it possible Bull Trout populations seem to be healthy because they are released?

ah, it's devils advocate night for you , and I'm guilty of de railing as well

[wildmanyeah]

If you removed hatcheries, after saltwater fishermen had their take there would be nothing left.

South Thompson chinook, maybe sockeye, maybe pinks  that’s all I can think of

Our chum fishery is completely enhanced, Wild Harrison chinook stock would be over exploited in the ocean with the loss of the cap and Chilliwack production.

Between the cap and Chilliwack hatcherys this year 42 thousand clipped coho went to First Nations in ESSR.

I can’t see our wild coho populations doing that, so after First Nations were allocated wild to replace that their would not be any left for sports fishermen

[Robert_G]

Ralph is up to his usual Saturday night over drinking....just ignore him.
No hatcheries...and its the final nail in the coffin....Maybe a sockeye or 2 every 4 years and that would be it.
And don't forget....they'd never sell another salmon tag again....who's gonna buy one if there is no retention?

[DanL]

And don't forget....they'd never sell another salmon tag again....who's gonna buy one if there is no retention?

While reduced, plenty of people would still C&R salmon for the sport opportunity if still available. After all who would buy a sturgeon tag with no retention?

[RalphH]

While reduced, plenty of people would still C&R salmon for the sport opportunity if still available. After all who would buy a sturgeon tag with no retention?

well the sturgeon hatcheries make up for that don't they! LOL

WMY - you think a switch to no hatcheries would mean no change in how the saltwater fishery is managed?

Dave you have any idea how Atlantic salmon retention is managed in Quebec, the Maritimes or NFLD? Apparently not.

The Chilliwack could possibly manage some retention of wild fish by lottery or a limited tag system muc as hunting is managed. No deer or moose or elk hatcheries AFAIK.

BTW I am just saying this is maybe how it could be done without hatcheries - I don't expect it to happen. We'll just keep on with the same old same old until all the fish are gone.

[Hike_and_fish]

The fish need our help. It's clear as mud. We can all go on and on and name a seemingly endless amount of systems with poor return from Vailmount to the FV. The upper Pitt sees enough wild Coho. Where is that opening. Please Ralph. It's a total pipedream to think the powers that be will even open a wild Steel or wild Coho fishery. The Pitt is a prime example of that.the amount of trust I put into what the federal government tells me is slim to none. I'll never in a million years bend over and submit to a hatchery shut down in Hope's of wild stocks rebuilding on their own and one day retain wild fish in the LM.

[wildmanyeah]

To many presidents already set by the Supreme Court for B.C. salmon that make the no hatchery system possible.


As for comparing it to hunting well, commercial hunting was banned for a reason. However your never going to ban commercial fishing with how ingrained it is in First Nation culture in our coast. The recent Supreme Court rulling on the WCVI proves that.

The Supreme Court May have locked us into a death spiral of manage to zero or Atlest manage to almost zero.
 

[RalphH]

To many presidents precedents already set by the Supreme Court for B.C. salmon that make the no hatchery system possible.


...

The Supreme Court May have locked us into a death spiral of manage to zero or Atlest manage to almost zero.

Fixed that error for you.. had to or there'd be a Trump joke somewhere.

The SCOC has never issued a  ruling on hatcheries. Evidence is hatcheries don't really help fish, just sport anglers. Pretty clear however some rivers like the Cap and Seymour wouldn't have much a salmon return without hatcheries.

[wildmanyeah]

I know what you mean ralph that their is  a wealth of information out there that points out issues with hatcherys.

I am just not sure their is political will to live though that transition.

If we only care about wild salmon and not killing them then certainly removing hatcherys makes sence.