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[wildmanyeah]

Some happy steelhead out their today


FN1161-Salmon - Fraser River Chum Update - October 17, 2018

In-season estimates of abundance for Fraser River chum are based on catch
information provided by the Albion test fishery. Using Albion test fishery data
through October 17th, the current median estimate for the terminal Fraser River
chum return is 793,000 chum, with a 50% migration date of October 18th. There
is an 80% probability that the run is between 658,000 and 951,000, and a 47%
probability that the run will exceed the escapement goal of 800,000. 

The current run size is not sufficient to allow for commercial opportunities in
the Fraser River.

Opportunities to harvest chum salmon will be constrained by management
objectives for Interior Fraser steelhead, which is a stock of concern presently
co-migrating in the Fraser River. Harvest opportunities in all fisheries will
be planned to minimize impacts on these stocks, as outlined in the 2018 South
Coast Salmon Integrated Fisheries Management Plan (IFMP). Fishers are required
to take every measure possible to ensure that their fishing activities avoid
impacts on steelhead. Any steelhead encountered must be released with the least
possible harm.   

While no additional in-season updates are planned at this time, we will
continue to closely monitor chum catch at the Albion test fishery over the
coming days. Should new data indicate the need to update the current run size
and timing estimate, additional updates will be provided.

[Sage2106]

That's good news for the steelhead. This weekends up coming gill net fishery isnt......

[Hike_and_fish]

What about FN ?

[Sage2106]

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/CommunalOpeningTimes.html

[wildmanyeah]

The only thing I’ll add is be careful what you wish for when in comes to FSC fisheries. If you think closing them down will mean business as usual in Fraser tributaries will happen I doubt it.

Eather the Tribs will close to sports fishing or you will be sharing KWB with some seine nets.

It’s a pretty blunt instrument that DFO has to work with when it comes to closing FSC.

[Sage2106]

They already fish the harrison. Not to mention the fn are givin access to the fish returning to the hatcheries. The supreme court has already ruled conservation is number 1 priority so the dfo just needs to enforce it. Just limit the fisheries during the closer and stop with the gill nets

[wildmanyeah]

They already fish the harrison. Not to mention the fn are givin access to the fish returning to the hatcheries. The supreme court has already ruled conservation is number 1 priority so the dfo just needs to enforce it. Just limit the fisheries during the closer and stop with the gill nets

If a full closure for conservation is something that you would like to see happen DFO is doing consultations right now.

Here is what it would look like:http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/species-especes/consultations/steelheadtrout-saumonarcenciel/index-eng.html

[Sage2106]

I would be more then ok with a closure like that as long as it was applied to everyone. We all need to sacrifice for the future. I would be ok with a complete cycle closure for everything on the main stem fraser if it meant more fishing for the future.
Even reduce limits in half. And actually set a quota on fn fishing and give them the choice fsc fishery or economic but not both. How the system is set up now where they fish 3 days of the week under fsc fishery sliding into economic opportunity.  Where do you think all the fish go?? Then they say they havent got enough food. 1 or the other choose.

[RalphH]

Some members have claimed that the fall FN chum fishery is responsible for the apparent drop in chum returns over the last several years.

Is the FN takes excessive? To date in a year when the chum return is estimated at about 800k, FN reports are that about 13,000 fish have been harvested. That's less than 2%

Last year when the return was well over a million the FN take was 158,575. Well under 20% of the estimated return.

Gee don't we wish the sockeye returns were harvested at a similar level - well they are by all segments of FN harvest including 'economic opportunities'. This year they took 588k when the total return was 12 million or about 5%. Man talk about over harvest and 'salmon genocide'.

Of course some will argue they are lying. Well of course  they are lying but then so are you! Even if the numbers were doubled they still amount to a pretty small % of the total run and a distant 2nd in overall harvest.

[Sage2106]

Their numbers ralph dont include the fish they toss up on the beach to die nor do their numbers represent the numbers of eggs destroyed my friend the beach seine nets continually drag through the fresh reds. You have no idea what your even talking about.

[stsfisher]

Is the FN takes excessive? To date in a year when the chum return is estimated at about 800k, FN reports are that about 13,000 fish have been harvested. That's less than 2%

Last year when the return was well over a million the FN take was 158,575. Well under 20% of the estimated return.


/quote]

Don't forget these are all females. What do the percentages work out to be when throwing a factor like that into the equation?

[RalphH]

Don't forget these are all females. What do the percentages work out to be when throwing a factor like that into the equation?

I only like to talk about real numbers and not products of other people's imagination.

In the commercial chum fishery that goes on over all coastal BC they often have trouble finding buyers for male chum but mostly they do - at least according to people I've talked to involved.

The numbers reported via DFO would have to be blown up several times to even approach the level of damage some people claim and that leaves such claims lacking credibility.

[stsfisher]

I only like to talk about real numbers and not products of other people's imagination.

In the commercial chum fishery that goes on over all coastal BC they often have trouble finding buyers for male chum but mostly they do - at least according to people I've talked to involved.

The numbers reported via DFO would have to be blown up several times to even approach the level of damage some people claim and that leaves such claims lacking credibility.

That has to be a cozy rock you live under Ralph.
By your own words we are talking about FN reported catch, not commercial catch which is a whole different ball of wax. We all know the Beach seine Chum fishery is a Roe fishery. The Beach seine was introduced as a means to sort not only unwanted bi-catch of other species, but unwanted male chum. If you believe different than you must live under a rock.

I am not saying the commercial sector is any better, and have no doubt there are buyers for male chum, just as there is for the female chum that hold the same value as the male fish. Lets not try to value the females any differently than the males, as the roe is sold to a totally different market with out any prejudice were the fish goes to market. Once chum get to market they are not treated differently. Roe on the other hand.............

[RalphH]

living under a rock? Great real, I know about beach seining and I know that most of the value from chum fishery is the roe. What you wrote is a product of your imagination which is mostly if anyone like me doesn't agree that the product of your imagination is a reality you must [insert insult put down of your choice]. If roe is so bad let's ban it's use as bait? Maybe lets allow only retention of male chum for sport anglers?

Chances of stopping the roe fisheries for Chum and herring from your soap box here is zero.

BTW Sage 2106 I do know what I am talking about which had nothing to do with you or the particular issue you have reported. I don't support dumping by-catch to rot and I don't support beach seining on spawning grounds. What you proposed seem reasonable to me.

[stsfisher]

living under a rock? Great real, I know about beach seining and I know that most of the value from chum fishery is the roe. What you wrote is a product of your imagination which is mostly if anyone like me doesn't agree that the product of your imagination is a reality you must [insert insult put down of your choice]. If roe is so bad let's ban it's use as bait? Maybe lets allow only retention of male chum for sport anglers?

Chances of stopping the roe fisheries for Chum and herring from your soap box here is zero.

BTW Sage 2106 I do know what I am talking about which had nothing to do with you or the particular issue you have reported. I don't support dumping by-catch to rot and I don't support beach seining on spawning grounds. What you proposed seem reasonable to me.

Please Ralph what is it I am imagining?
Is it the fact DFO and has no grasp on the actual numbers of harvested chum? Is it the fact DFO has no real data since the mid 1990's that takes in account for female roe exploitation? Is it the fact DFO can't even use their own study's to properly manage this chum fishery where this years return of 800,000  fish are thought to be excessive?  http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/192607.pdf (last page tells a good story)

If my imagination is telling me that DFO needs to look at the roe fishery in a way it has not in the past then yes you are correct. This is the only study I could find on salmon roe fisheries, maybe its time for a new look into actual numbers harvested now, http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/16699.pdf (pages 1, 19,20) If my imagination tells me its time to gather actual numbers reported by putting more boots to the ground rather relying on "reported catches" then yes you are correct.

"If roe is so bad let's ban it's use as bait? Maybe lets allow only retention of male chum for sport anglers?"
I wonder Ralph, why is it you always turn this subject and many others into a recreational issue, when in your own words  you "know that most of the value from chum fishery is the roe"
Anglers have proven we can carry on the practice of fishing with out the need for Chum roe. We already have regulations in place for such things. Chum roe is obviously a commodity for sport fisherman, but we are not using 1000's maybe 10's of 1000's of it a season. http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/16699.pdf

I will not carry on this conversation any further, instead I will insult myself by climbing under my own rock burying my head in the sand beneath it.

Some reading for those interested in coming up with their own imaginary thoughts.
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/16699.pdf

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/chum-salmon-runs-record-levels-1.3837854

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/192607.pdf