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[StillAqua]

Does anyone seriously believe there is a provincial or federal political party that would back a seal cull given how supporting twinning of an existing oil pipeline in BC is working out for the Libs? DFO answers to their political masters no matter who they be and even if there was definitive scientific evidence that a cull would improve chinook and orca abundance, it's only one part of any government policy decision and I can't think of a party that would champion it. We're pitting those really cute doe-eyed rehabbed seal release videos by the Aquarium up against videos of stacks of seal carcasses on the beach! Unfortunately, what might fly politically at the mouth of the Columbia River is going to be a very tough sell in the Salish Sea.

Debating what it was like 20, 200 or even 2000 years ago is interesting but I don't think it's very helpful because of how the ecosystem has been changed and knocked out of it's natural balance by us for the last 150 years: contaminating their food chains, driving some prey and predator species to near extinction while artifically pumping up others, warming and filling the oceans with microplastics, messing up freshwater and nearshore habitats, etc. There may be parts of the ecosystem we can enhance and protect but direct manipulation of ecosystems has a long history of "unintented consequences". We need to find a balanced approach to limiting our utilization of the resources while letting the natural ecosystem "recover" to whatever it's new equilibrium will be given the new environmental conditions we've imposed on it.

[sbc hris]

Does anyone seriously believe there is a provincial or federal political party that would back a seal cull given how supporting twinning of an existing oil pipeline in BC is working out for the Libs? DFO answers to their political masters no matter who they be and even if there was definitive scientific evidence that a cull would improve chinook and orca abundance, it's only one part of any government policy decision and I can't think of a party that would champion it. We're pitting those really cute doe-eyed rehabbed seal release videos by the Aquarium up against videos of stacks of seal carcasses on the beach! Unfortunately, what might fly politically at the mouth of the Columbia River is going to be a very tough sell in the Salish Sea.

Debating what it was like 20, 200 or even 2000 years ago is interesting but I don't think it's very helpful because of how the ecosystem has been changed and knocked out of it's natural balance by us for the last 150 years: contaminating their food chains, driving some prey and predator species to near extinction while artifically pumping up others, warming and filling the oceans with microplastics, messing up freshwater and nearshore habitats, etc. There may be parts of the ecosystem we can enhance and protect but direct manipulation of ecosystems has a long history of "unintented consequences". We need to find a balanced approach to limiting our utilization of the resources while letting the natural ecosystem "recover" to whatever it's new equilibrium will be given the new environmental conditions we've imposed on it.

A very wise post, in my opinion. Pretty well my thoughts on the matter too, but stated much more eloquently than I could express it myself.

[IronNoggin]

... DFO answers to their political masters no matter who they be and even if there was definitive scientific evidence that a cull would improve chinook and orca abundance, it's only one part of any government policy decision and I can't think of a party that would champion it....

Which leads to the obvious conclusion that any harvests, or culls as you put it, would necessarily have to be conducted by those who do not require government approval to do so. 

Cheers,
Nog

[CohoJake]

Which leads to the obvious conclusion that any harvests, or culls as you put it, would necessarily have to be conducted by those who do not require government approval to do so. 

Cheers,
Nog

We should start a GoFundMe page to buy seal guns and ammo for the FN.  Maybe they can pre-sell some seal skin coats and hats.  I've been looking for a new lucky fishing hat - my old one is getting really stinky.

[RalphH]

we'll all look so chic, splattered with red paint. 

[cammer]

Gofundme account for natives?   Isn’t that already in place ? I see it every 2 weeks on my pay statement it’s called taxes

[IronNoggin]

Wild Chinook salmon productivity is negatively related to seal density, and not related to hatchery releases in the Pacific Northwest

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2017-0481#.W0qVNcInbct

Hmmm...

Niog

[RalphH]

It is a negative correlation and correlations don't necessarily mean anything. This is something taught in 1st semester Statistics courses and high school math.

If seals have increased because the cull was stopped over 40  years ago and they are protected from shooting by commercial and sports fishers but wild chinook numbers have gone down due to a variety of factors, there will be a negative correlation but it may little or nothing to do with the increase in the seal population. Likewise if hatchery chinook have higher ocean mortality rates than wild fish, due to a variety of factors, wild chinook number may correlate positively with hatchery releases but there could little or no causal relation between hatchery releases and wild chinook numbers.

[IronNoggin]

It is a negative correlation and correlations don't necessarily mean anything.

OK, then why don't you inform those learned scientists that they are wasting their time on such studies? 

I understand you love to play the Devil's Advocate quite often Ralph.

Carry on...

Cheers,
Nog

[RalphH]

Oh I am sure they are quite aware of it but other people... not so much.