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[IronNoggin]

U.S. House approves bill to allow killing sea lions

WASHINGTON – The U.S. House passed a bill Tuesday that would allow tribal managers and government fish managers to kill limited numbers of sea lions in the Columbia River to improve the survival of endangered salmon and steelhead populations.

The legislation passed by a vote of 288 to 116.

Under the bill, designated officials would be able to remove some California and Stellar sea lions from specific areas where they are posing the most harm to endangered native fish runs.

The bill is sponsored by U.S. Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler, R-Wash., and U.S. Rep. Kurt Schrader, D-Ore.

“For the salmon and steelhead fighting to make it upstream, today’s vote in the U.S. House significantly improves their chances of survival," Beutler said after passage of the bill.

"The passage of my bipartisan bill signals a return to a healthy, balanced Columbia River ecosystem by reining in the unnatural, overcrowded sea lion population that is indiscriminately decimating our fish runs."

Beutler said supporters of the bill are "not anti-sea lion," adding, "We’re just for protecting a Pacific Northwest treasure - salmon, steelhead, sturgeon and other native fish species iconic to our region."

A companion bill is moving through the U.S. Senate now, sponsored by U.S. Sen. Jim Risch, R-Idaho, and U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.

Joe Stohr, acting director of the Washington State Department of Fish & Wildlife, supported the passage of the bill.

“We appreciate today’s action by the House of Representatives and the efforts of Representatives Herrera Beutler and Schrader to secure the bill’s passage. Sea lion predation on salmon is a complex issue, and we thank them for recognizing the need for action to help recover threatened and endangered populations in the Columbia River.”

http://komonews.com/news/local/us-house-to-vote-on-bill-allowing-lethal-removal-of-sea-lions

Cheers,
Nog

[IronNoggin]

What People Are Saying About the Endangered Salmon and Fisheries Predation Prevention Act

https://schrader.house.gov/legislation/salmon-predation-prevention.htm

Interesting...
Nog

[IronNoggin]

Tens of thousands of seals in the Salish Sea are devouring millions of adult and juvenile salmon, sparking renewed debate about culling the furry predators.

Recent studies have linked high seal-population density to troubled chinook runs and the decline of southern resident killer whales that feed on chinook in the summer.

https://theprovince.com/news/local-news/exploding-salish-sea-seal-population-sparks-call-for-a-cull/wcm/bc8be6d3-6241-4a16-bce0-b1b4800cf615

Nog

[avid angler]

We are at the point this really needs to happen.

[IronNoggin]

We are at the point this really needs to happen.

aYup.

Our less than glorious leaders apparently need a good swift kick to get them motivated.
Apparently there is a new group poised to do just that.   
More as it becomes available...

Nog

[RalphH]

LoL. Article states Ben Nelson the  lead researcher on the project "remains uncertain that a seal cull would have a significant impact on chinook survival."  The dead chinook in the FN would hardly have been saved shooting the seals involved since those fish were already caught in the gill net. Issues on the Columbia are related to man made structures as are much of the problem on the Puntledge. Typical case of a solution looking for a problem?

[IronNoggin]

... Typical case of a solution looking for a problem? 

When current studies conclude that seals & sea lions are consuming approximately 40 % of the annual chinook production, and 47 % of the annual coho production in the Gulf & Straits, representing SIX HUNDRED TIMES  what the combined commercial and recreational catches of the same species are, would you somehow conclude that Houston, we don't have a problem?

Really? 

Wondering...
Nog

[Steelhawk]

From this article in below link, it seems there is a national will to hunt seals even for the MPs. The Inuit, as an indigenous people suffer at the hand of zealous greenpeacers and animal rights fanatics when they turned their campaign against seal hunts. This is like a genocide on these people as their already high suicide rate sky rocketed after their way of life has been brutally robbed of. This article mentions about a film called 'Angry Inuit' in which Inuit people are pointing the fingers that the rich industrialized countries have done their fair share of animal cruelty and yet no world wide campaigns were organized or these cruelty acts got exposed to public media. I agree with the Inuit people. It is a hypocritical world out there. Baby seals are easy to invoke pet like love than baby pigs or cows. So the Inuit have suffered as a people by the hands of these animal rights or eco friendly organizations because their campaigns to protect baby seals can draw funding for their organizations much easier than the chickens, pigs, or cows. In the end, it is $$$ that is the evil. The Inuits are too innocent and too detached from the rest of the world to fight back.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada-is-never-ever-going-to-stop-killing-seals-your-tell-all-guide-to-the-seal-hunt

So if our Canadian government is for seal hunts, then why DFO doesn't want to do seal culls as a way to protect salmon & steelhead? Rather they want to 'cull' off the economic survival of so many coastal communities. Are they afraid of the animal right groups?

[RalphH]

When current studies conclude that seals & sea lions are consuming approximately 40 % of the annual chinook production, and 47 % of the annual coho production in the Gulf & Straits, representing SIX HUNDRED TIMES  what the combined commercial and recreational catches of the same species are, would you somehow conclude that Houston, we don't have a problem?

Really? 

Wondering...
Nog

that's not what they conclude. The studies & article that have been posted, most often by you actually say much what Nelson said in the Province article - they don't know that a seal cull based o these studies would see an increased abundance of  chinook or coho salmon. They also have said the results should not be used to support a cull now.

Seahawk - you are using an apples and oranges comparison...Inuit have relied on seals for thousands of years.FNs on the PNWC not so much - they hunted them but only to a minor extent. That Mps support that continued hunt by Inuit in the face of oppostion by some conservation and Animal Rights groups is not support for a hunt or cull here.
 
I don't have a problem with an FN hunt here. I don't have a problem with culling problem seals. The issue is that suggesting a widespread cull will return some species to significant abundance. As yet there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

[IronNoggin]

... Are they afraid of the animal right groups? 

Terrified actually.
It was a coalition of 5 "green" NGO's that threatened the Feds over the SARA listing that brought the previous closures in, and now forces the proposal of these larger scope ones. And they (and no-one for "our side") sits to advise the government regarding Marine Protected Areas which are ongoing right now. Starting to see a pattern yet??
Yes, DFO is scared crapless of these folks.

BTW, I was there, working alongside the Inuit (Inuvialuit) through many of the years of opposition to their way of life.
Largely we won. And largely I recognize the "why" that occurred...

that's not what they conclude.

Yes Ralph, it is. I will cite the NOAH references for you tomorrow.
Regardless of how you or anyone else tries to spin it, those were the results they obtained.
Really.

...Inuit have relied on seals for thousands of years. FNs on the PNWC not so much - they hunted them but only to a minor extent.

Again - Wrong. The FN of BC's coast utilized seals to a much larger extent than you suggest.
Much of that has been recorded, and focused efforts are underway right now to document more.
Nice try though...
 

I don't have a problem with an FN hunt here. I don't have a problem with culling problem seals. The issue is that suggesting a widespread cull will return some species to significant abundance. As yet there is no evidence of that whatsoever.

There is more than sufficient information at our fingertips to suggest that it will help in our current situation.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a harvest as a stand-alone measure. Combined with habitat and population enhancement measures, we have every reason to believe it will make a positive difference.

Cheers,
Nog

[Blood_Orange]

I did some Googling to find out what eats seals and sea lions. Turns out that there are whales called Orcas that eat seals and these whales can live comfortably in the chilly waters around BC. What if DFO started a hatchery program to increase Orca populations? The Vancouver Aquarium has big tanks and they could probably help with this. More whales would mean fewer seals... fewer seals would mean more fish! Then we could fish for all the Chinook we want

[RalphH]

Again - Wrong. The FN of BC's coast utilized seals to a much larger extent than you suggest.
Much of that has been recorded, and focused efforts are underway right now to document more.
Nice try though...
 

'Nog - you may be a biologist. I have a degree in anthropology - the anthropological record is that consumption of seals was limited. Mostly some parts of the seal were used to make air floats etc. There was much more nutritious foods that required far less effort to harvest. MOst of the papers you posted  via links to date say exactly that.

There is close to zero interest in the FN community to have seals back into their diet. The Makah people on the Olympic peninsula who re-introduced their traditional whale hunt didn't produce much interest in continuing as they found the meat unpalatable.

Post the NOAH references. I have read all the references you have posted to date and haven't read any endorsement for a widespread cull. Some of the things you claimed were in some of the references supplies, well I couldn't find them.

Blood orange unfortunately Orcas have never been numerous The southern resident whales don't eat seals, at least not here. The Biggs Orcas whales do but there isn't enough of them to make a dent.

I've grew up here on the coast and started to fish soon after I could walk. Fishermen have always complained about seals eating salmon and wanted them killed. The seals have been in rivers like the Harrison and Fraser since I can remember. I saw seals shot off the bars on the Fraser in the 60s. Saying seals have just appeared in the rivers these past few years doesn't match the facts.
 

[wildmanyeah]

I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone that can do math that buy killing some seals that it may produce more salmon and that in turn may result in a fishery opening up. Ie if we kill seals we can kill more salmon.

As Ralph says it’s about the pie and right now seals are taking more of the pie then they have in a very long time.

Does the ecosystem as a whole Warrent killing seals. Nope we can keep cutting more fisheries.

Seals preferred pray is stream type chinook, steelhead, sockeye and coho

Pink and chum smolts are too small. I

[IronNoggin]

... the anthropological record is that consumption of seals was limited. Mostly some parts of the seal were used to make air floats etc. There was much more nutritious foods that required far less effort to harvest.

Oddly enough, I was in a very recent meeting wherein this very subject was being discussed. Several Island Bands, and a couple on the adjacent mainland, were noting studies that had been conducted focusing on their people's historic use of seals & sea lions. In two of the Island Band cases, middens and other related evidence strongly pointed to the fact that at certain times of the year, an average family would utilize up to 3 or 4 seals per month. That created more than a little interest among those present, and several unrelated Bands are now gearing up investigations of their own into this very matter. I would suspect that within a reasonable time period, we may well have a few answers to this question in hand...

There is close to zero interest in the FN community to have seals back into their diet.

In that same meeting, there was quite the discussion of the health benefits etc of consuming marine mammals. And from what I saw, there was and is considerable interest in at least trying this out. Several Bands noted they were reaching out to Inuit peoples to determine the appropriate methods from dispatch to table-fare.

Saying seals have just appeared in the rivers these past few years doesn't match the facts. 

Perhaps not, but certainly the explosion in numbers has been documented.
For simply harbor seals alone, their population went from around 10,000 in the early '70's, to in excess of 105,000 by 2008, and has not shown any indication of slowing down since.
Re: POPULATION ASSESSMENT: PACIFIC HARBOUR SEAL (PHOCA VITULINA RICHARDSI) DFO 2011

Post the NOAH references.

Seals consume approximately 40% of juvenile chinook and 47 % of the coho production in the Georgia Strait every year.

https://marinesurvivalproject.com/research_activity/list/predation/

Seals consume 6 times the catch by commercial and recreational fishermen.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0203#.W0ZQIMInbcs

There is no single cause of the decline in Chinook stock, a comprehensive plan to protect our salmon stocks must include the discussion of the control of the seal population.

Harbor Seal diet in northern Puget Sound: implications for the recovery of depressed fish stock.
M. Lance, Monique & Chang, WY & Jeffries, Steven & Pearson, Scott & Acevedo-Gutierrez, Alejandro. (2012). Harbor seal diet in northern Puget Sound: Implications for the recovery of depressed fish stocks. Marine Ecology Progress Series. 464. 257-271. 10.3354/meps09880.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8

While only the latter two suggest that direct management of seals should be considered in protecting / enhancing salmon populations, others do brush up against the subject:

"As more protected species respond positively to recovery efforts, managers should attempt to evaluate tradeoffs between these recovery efforts and the unintended ecosystem consequences of predation and competition on other protected species."

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0203#.W0ZQIMInbcs

I actually don't think a heavy handed widespread cull as you termed it is required. Rather the case can and is being made for a focused control of certain individuals and groups of seals / sea lions that are having the greatest impact on salmon populations.Not so much a "shotgun effect" as more of a "surgical strike" kind of approach.

Saying that, I honestly believe that controlling some of the seal population is the only short term action that will have immediate results, and it is an action that is going to have to be taken to save the southern orcas from extinction over the long term. Such a program would be FAR more effective than closing off access to marine areas where these whales do not even frequent.

Obviously components relating to habitat mitigation / enhancement and population augmentation would necessarily have to go hand in hand with any such program.

Cheers,
Nog

[RalphH]

I've read all the papers circulated on Ben Nelson's work on seal predation. The estimates were extrapolated from local scat samples across a wider geographic area.  From the 1st link you list:

High rates of predation by harbour seals on salmon smolts may explain the decline and lack of recovery of coho and Chinook salmon in the Salish Sea. However, rates of predation and the relative spatial and temporal vulnerabilities of smolts to predation by seals are unknown[/u]...

Ben notes that seal predation appears to be highest on juvenile fish between 115-145mm in length, but also cautioned that the consumption estimates and mortality could be biased due to high emphasis on “estuary seals” because of the locations that scats were sampled.

Yet many people in the angling community (just read some of the posts above and in other threads) regard this work as a smoking gun and slam dunk for a broad seal cull. It is not. A discussion about controlling seal populations is not an endorsement of a widespread cull!


However you and I at least have some common ground as yes some sort of cull in specific areas may need to be part of a recovery attempt.