Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River  (Read 59029 times)

Rieber

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1441
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2017, 09:35:02 AM »

I wonder if the demonstrators will be wearing leather fishing vests with the big round embroidery on the back saying " Taking Back the Fraser - One Salmon at a time"

Or maybe "One Bar - One Way"

 ;D Now, I'm just being cheeky.
Logged

firstlight

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1550
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2017, 09:42:40 AM »


It's not so simple. Almost without exception, FNs have a very different metabolic system from Europeans and Asians. What is food for us is often literally poison for them. Their bodies cannot handle processed foods and additives the way ours can. They get obese and sick much faster than caucasians and Asians do. It's getting bad for us, too, but that's another story.
FNs don't do well getting their essential nutrition from grocery stores. They need their wild fish, their game, their traditional way of harvesting and preparing food in order to be healthy and thrive. For centuries now, the white man has been denying them that, imposing upon them a lifestyle that does nothing but kill them off slowly.
And that is WRONG.  Wrap your mind around that concept. WRONG.
While you and I don't NEED our wild salmon for existential purposes, our native brethren do.
Educate yourself. Read this paper, it contains in a few short pages everything you should know about Natives' lifestyle, metabolism, nutrition and such. And about the horrendous impact that your ancestors have had on those good people.

1828_NCCAH_mini_diets_health_final.pdf

Is funny that the First Nations people I know eat the exact same foods as I do.
Im calling BS on this one.
Logged

NothingToSnagAbout

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 202
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2017, 10:05:13 AM »

So the Japanese will die off without whales?
Logged

Rieber

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1441
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2017, 10:13:10 AM »

So the Japanese will die off without whales?

That's a strange question. Are the Japanese harvesting whales in the Fraser?
Logged

Rodney

  • Administrator
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14766
  • Where's my strike indicator?
    • Fishing with Rod
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2017, 10:39:20 AM »

This discussion is getting sidetracked a little bit but that's expected. Rather than focusing on what First Nations should or shouldn't do, perhaps lets look at what the angling community hopes to achieve on Saturday.

Whether you see tomorrow's event as a demonstration or a protest, lets be clear that participants will not be taking part in anything illegal. Fred and other FRSA directors have communicated with the officers at DFO's C&P, to ensure that and also to let them know what they can expect from the event. This isn't just about a bunch of angry individuals going out and doing anything to get a rise out of the authority, far from that because it'd be counter-productive. Everyone who shows up at Island 22 at 8:30am will have to register before going out. Few things are expected to be accomplished:

FRSA wants all fish that are caught, released or legally retained, recorded so at the end of the day there is some data to demonstrate that selective methods can be used by the angling community to specifically target species that can and should be open for fishing. This collection is long overdue as we have been asking Fisheries and Oceans Canada to do so for years.

The event will also show that the regulations need to be improved. As of now, not just tomorrow, but the whole summer, you can freely head down to the non-tidal Fraser and bar fish, and when asked you simply have to say you're bar fishing for steelhead, trout or char. You can head down to the tidal Fraser River, spincast a lure with a light outfit, or bottom fish with roe, and when asked you simply have to say you are targeting northern pikeminnow, bull trout and cutthroat trout. Majority of us are not doing that, because we've chosen not to make this management harder when closed salmon species are moving through. At some point that restraint and patience will run out when another user group continues to be allowed to harvest while the anglers sit on the sideline.

You don't have to fish tomorrow when participate in the event. FRSA directors won't pretend to know all the solutions and they don't, so this is an opportunity to provide your inputs and ideas.

Some may suggest that an event like this would just further escalate and create conflicts, but I think if the current management approach continues, conflicts will be expected at some point when one user group continues to be given access while the other is ignored. Rather than shutting down all recreational salmon fishing opportunities to minimize conflicts on the water with First Nations, there have to be better communications. This should not about denying First Nations' rights to harvest, it should be about the push for better management by those who are in charge in this area.

The socio-economic impacts from these closures cannot be neglected. This summer's freshwater fishing licence sales have been the lowest in the past decade due to Region 2 fishing closures, and fires in Regions 3 and 5. You may not be affected financially by it, but there are plenty of businesses in the Fraser Valley that are, so that's where we are at now.

Rieber

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1441
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2017, 10:51:49 AM »

Sounds good. Thank you Rodney.
Logged

milo

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2106
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2017, 11:42:57 AM »

Is funny that the First Nations people I know eat the exact same foods as I do.
Im calling BS on this one.
You can call BS all you want - you obviously didn't even read the document I linked.
Besides, if they eat exactly the same foods you eat, they are probably overweight and diabetic.  ::)

Quote
So the Japanese will die off without whales?
Whale meat is not nearly as important a staple in the Japanese diet as salmon is in FN's.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 11:51:12 AM by milo »
Logged

Rieber

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1441
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2017, 12:59:15 PM »

This thread was about: Recreational Fishermen protesting the Closure of the Fraser river.

Stake holders:  Recreational, FN & Commercial Fisheries (associated groups, lobbies, businesses)
Geographical location of focus: Fraser River
Policy & Management Groups:  DFO, FN,  Canadian Federal, Provincial & Municipal Governments

It (the Thread) now references in "one way or another":

- Eugenics
- DNA gene sequencing
- Extreme Views of the "Alt right / Alt Left"
- Separatist Ideology
- Discrimination
- Race Baiting
- Reparations
- Politically Correct Jargon
- Historical Inaccuracy
- Climate Change Debates

*Hopefully someone will discuss how "Alien Abductions" could factor into the situation. We should also not forget about the impact that "Sasquatch (Bigfoot)" populations have been making

That's really good. This topic stayed at the top for its duration since being created. Nearing 5000 views. People are well aware of the demonstration and we got a good idea on where people stand on this topic.

I hope the demonstration proves to be effective, safe and enjoyed by all that attend. I think it would have been good it was able to be seen by public from the roadyways somehow but that's not possible.

Hopefully there will be footage via drone.

Hopefully there are no Sockeye caught on the bar rigs or any sockeye that show up downstream belly up. Yes, I know the odds of that happening are extremely low.

Lots of water, portable shade and sunscreen - it's going to be a hot one.
Logged

standalone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 76
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2017, 03:23:01 PM »

Do we have exact fish numbers taken by FN,Commercial, and recreational in past, say 5 or 10 years?
Logged

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4888
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2017, 03:34:34 PM »

Do we have exact fish numbers taken by FN,Commercial, and recreational in past, say 5 or 10 years?

there are some reliable numbers for FN and commercial fisheries. No one has a clue for the rec sector.
Logged
"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.

armytruck

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 750
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »

Here is a commercial one . You may have to dig a little deeper to find any other stats.
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Fos2_Internet/commercialSM/salmonCatchStats.cfm?year=2017
Logged
"Everyone ought to believe in something;  I believe I'll go fishing."

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13881
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2017, 04:08:32 PM »

Fred has written a letter to the Minister Dominic Leblanc of Fisheries, Oceans, and the Canadian Coast Guard on the eve of tomorrow's demonstration fishery organized by the Fraser River SportFishing Alliance.
Dear Minister
It is in an act of desperation that I seek your assistance with improving how fisheries are managed in the Fraser Valley, mainly the Fraser River and the precious Salmon resources that provide huge economic and social value to our community.
I was born in 1955 and raised on the banks of the Fraser River in the Chilliwack area. I have dedicated my entire life to the fishing community in every possible way. My passion and commitment for this priceless resource has been well documented for over forty five years. My business established in 1978 includes retail fishing tackle and guided fishing trips. My priority however has been to the community, our staff, friends, family and our clients. The collective commitment has been to the fish, conservation and a sustainable future. Without the fish, all of this is lost and this would be such a preventable demise to a multi million dollar industry.
Over the years, runs of salmon have diminished in drastic ways and opportunity to fishers and users have been reduced to historic low levels. Some years are better than others but the facts suggest we are trending towards disaster in the immediate future as we witness this year becoming a serious reality check. It must be recognized that the environment is changing quickly and we need to change with that reality. The demands on the resource are out growing the returns with sustainability being a legitimate question.
It is time to bring positive, progressive, collective and co-operative efforts to the table. There is an organization called the Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance that is working hard to include the knowledge and leadership from our industry, our communities and all users of the resource. We are over due in developing a resourceful, respectful and effective strategy to help government work towards realistic goals and sustainable fisheries for the future. We need accountability from everyone if we want to change where fisheries are headed.
It is obvious that the recreational sector that is dependant on opportunity is being neglected to the point of being insulting. The economic and social hardships need to be understood, respected and not underplayed. Conservation has to be the number one priority and everyone agrees on this. The issue is that opportunity has to be handled in a fair and equitable manner. First Nations have a priority access in the constitution and in law and that is understood and respected. The frustration comes from the lack of communication and effort that is given to recreational Fraser River fisheries and the rational the does not allow for catch and release and or other species to be targeted. There are ways to address the concerns by DFO that have been suggested over the years but unfortunately the department has ignored or undermined the process. It is clear that they default to a simple closure as it is a easy and cheap way out. This has to change immediately.
A big concern is enforcement levels and funding. The officers are doing a tough job and deserve support especially when conservation concerns are in place. Monitoring has to be stepped up to ensure all the rules are followed and law breakers are made accountable with severe consequences. It is time to reward good behaviour and punish the bad behaviour that often is overlooked as if it does not exist.
A campaign to resolve issues needs to include recreational anglers that are participating in the fisheries. Anglers desperately need to be involved as part of solutions to protecting our priceless heritage for future generations. The social and economic losses are astronomical and has to be considered before it is too late.
Please open the door of opportunity to include a team of dedicated and knowledgable people with forward and inclusive thinking in a time of crisis. Governments role in bringing this team together is a priority and your assistance is requested.
The FRSA is looking for a positive and effective change in dealing with the serious challenges that face us in today's changing world. Lets work together and remove the hurdles that stall and complicate the issues. Lets bring creative and positive efforts to resolving and fixing the troubled waters.
Yours truly,
Fred Helmer
Owner Freds Custom Tackle
Co-chair Fraser River Sportfishing Alliance

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4888
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2017, 04:14:54 PM »

Logged
"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.

Rieber

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1441
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2017, 04:22:16 PM »

Chris, Fred's letter is well written - thank you for sharing.

Have you ever seen positive or constructive responses to these letter from the Ministry?
Logged

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13881
Re: Demonstration Fishery On The Fraser River
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2017, 04:23:43 PM »

Chris, Fred's letter is well written - thank you for sharing.

Have you ever seen positive or constructive responses to these letter from the Ministry?
Not that I have heard but was away on a road trip the last 4 days.