Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News  (Read 13692 times)

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13880
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2014, 05:32:14 PM »

The link is a little misleading - it is 1.5 million over 5 years, not 15 million.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/salmon+farmers+funding+research+wild+farmed+fish+interact/10468554/story.html
They get a few things wrong many times. ;D

Fisherbob

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1347
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2014, 07:26:27 PM »

Care to tell us what Doc Mortan has got right Chris? :)
 I quit funding that useless investment.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 07:55:11 PM by Fisherbob »
Logged

aquapaloosa

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • They don't call'em fish for nothin.
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2014, 07:31:37 PM »

I thought she was bang on when she was saying she was going to quit.
Logged
Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3377
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2014, 08:26:10 PM »

I thought she was bang on when she was saying she was going to quit.
Yup, I suspect she has had about enough .. too many battles lost, huge funding issues, her latest court failure, and the mounting disrespect from academia ... I think we may be seeing the waning days of Almo.

Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2014, 11:29:36 PM »

They get a few things wrong many times. ;D

It was 1.5 Million instead of 15 Million.  Someone forgot to put in the decimal.  They bad I guess.  Other than that what else about the news article was incorrect, Chris?

I have been reading Morton’s posts in her Facebook page and she is still very delusional.  She is completely forgetting what Justice Cohen said in his findings, especially about ISAv and ISA.  She is also ignoring the results of viral surveillance work from the Alaska, Canada and Washington State.  Cohen's comments about ISAv and ISA are right there in the report (Volume 2, Chapters 4 and 5).  All 4 expert witnesses (Nylund, Miller, Gagne and even Kibenge) weighed in on this and this is what Justice Cohen said in Chapter 4 (Decline-related evidence):

Although they did not agree on whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus was present, all agreed that more research was necessary and that, whether ISAv is present or not, there had been no confirmation of ISA in any of the Pacific salmon tested by the time of the December hearings.  As stated in Volume 1, Chapter 9, Fish health management, I find that the evidence does not allow me to conclude whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus currently exists in Fraser River sockeye. However, I accept the opinion of the expert panel (Dr. Kibenge, Dr. Nylund, Ms. Gagné, and Dr. Miller) that, as of December 2011, there was no evidence that fish tested for ISAv (the virus) suffered from ISA (the disease) as that disease was then understood. – Justice Bruce Cohen Final Report (Vol. 2; Ch. 4; pg. 60).

Yet, she drags up some select exhibits from the inquiry - not mentioning that one exhibit alone was not used in Cohen’s findings and recommendations.  Of course she is going to find exhibits that make her case, but one needs to take in all the exhibits and weigh what they are saying.  She is only showing a snap shot but anyone that has followed the inquiry knows full well that she isn’t telling the whole story.

Now her followers on Facebook are turning their guns on the media (i.e. The Province) and blaming them.  Now I have always been critical of the media getting things wrong, but to start blaming the media like they are doing is really sad because attacking the messenger (even if they wrote the article entirely incorrect) in this case does nothing to change the fact that ISAv and ISA have not been confirmed in BC waters.  It doesn’t change the fact that if virulent ISAv were present on BC fish farms there would be millions of Atlantic Salmon dead.  If Morton is so convinced that this work done by the US and Canada is so wrong then let’s see the published work (including methods) of her viral surveillance work so we can compare.  The fact is that we will never see the light of day of this work.  Who is really not being transparent?  As it stands now both the Canada and the US have posted their work online for the public to see and critique.

What is surprising is that Morton’s followers on Facebook that are supposedly supporters of science are against research being done locally because of work done in other countries which apparently prove their point with what is going on here.  Well, their opinions in this regard are contrary to what came out of the Cohen Inquiry.  Cohen’s clearly said in his report that there are data gaps here that needed to be address.  Here…not Norway, Chile, Thailand or Malta.  I don’t believe seeing a recommendation that said, “don’t do any research here and instead just read studies done in other countries.”  Funding like this is needed because good research is not inexpensive and government is not providing enough.  This work also aligns with other work underway; such as, the Fish Health Initiative by Genome BC/PSF/DFO and the Salish Sea Project.

Instead, Morton supporters are being encouraged to ignore research to help address these data gaps and instead fund an expensive negative advertising campaign which does nothing to help wild salmon where they need it.  The media gets the money – not the biologists or technicians that actually need the funding.  Does that seem right?  Where are all these farm critics that were so adamant that research was not getting done and that nobody seemed to care?  Morton is quickly losing whatever credibility she has left with the scientific community.  Her followers on Facebook are trying support Morton like trying to arrange deck chairs on the Titanic.  She is frustrated that Cohen’s Report didn’t align with her views and is now desperate.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 11:33:04 PM by shuswapsteve »
Logged

Fisherbob

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1347
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2014, 11:05:07 AM »

Looks like the US is fine with the Atlantic salmon farms in their own country. I guess that is what Californication is all about. :)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 11:10:53 AM by Fisherbob »
Logged

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13880
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2014, 11:20:43 AM »

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3377
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2014, 11:44:50 AM »

http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewild/commentary/could-canadian-fish-farms-harm-californias-wild-salmon.html#.VI_UPb1PIjM.facebook

Chris, buddy .. when you post drivel like this it shows just how much you are disconnected to the realities of salmon farming here in the Pacific.  The movie “Salmon Confidential” is a joke and virtually all its content has been refuted or disclaimed many times over.  Try reading this …  http://salmonconfidential.com/
But carry on, as I know you will.
Logged

chris gadsden

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13880
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 04:06:11 PM »

Chris, buddy .. when you post drivel like this it shows just how much you are disconnected to the realities of salmon farming here in the Pacific.  The movie “Salmon Confidential” is a joke and virtually all its content has been refuted or disclaimed many times over.  Try reading this …  http://salmonconfidential.com/
But carry on, as I know you will.
But but--- you wanted me to post some new things and when I do you call it drivel. ;D ;D ;D
Now we have Site "C", time for another thread to deflect.lol
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:07:59 PM by chris gadsden »
Logged

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2014, 12:16:45 AM »

http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewild/commentary/could-canadian-fish-farms-harm-californias-wild-salmon.html#.VI_UPb1PIjM.facebook

An independent documentary from last year suggested that farmed salmon from the B.C. coast may pose a threat to wild salmon runs in other places, as the viruses that afflict the farmed salmon may survive the journey from fish farm to grocery store to your kitchen sink. The viruses are not considered a threat to human health, but can wipe out wild Pacific salmon stocks. California salmon may also be at risk when they mingle with Canadian wild salmon in the North Pacific.

Really? If they are talking about ISAv where is the science that shows that wild Pacific salmon stocks can be wiped out? Lots of science that shows that Atlantic Salmon don't do so well with ISAv.

The actual level of risk to other runs of wild salmon is unknown, say activists, in part because Canadian officials are obstructing independent scientific investigation of the health of fish in the hundreds of salmon farms in British Columbia. But it's possible that the viruses now afflicting British Columbia's farmed salmon could be spread to California's wild runs through acts as simple as washing salmon steaks in a kitchen sink prior to cooking.

Really?  I guess they didn't see the results of from the 2 year viral surveillance study by the CFIA who partnered with many other groups in BC.  I guess it would be too much to actually educate the public in this article about endemic viruses like IHNv which has a distribution which extends from Alaska to California.  Naaa...better to fear monger.

In those fish farm pens, thousands of imported Atlantic salmon are kept in close quarters and fed artificial food, then harvested for the export market. The overcrowding allows parasites and pathogens to spread rapidly through the pens. And though the Atlantic salmon can't get out of the pens, their waste can, filling the Strait with effluent.

What did Cohen say about the evidence of diseases out of control on BC fish farms?  What did Cohen say about the risk of chemicals and effluent on Fraser Sockeye?  All of this is right there in the report, but obviously this website didn't care to read it.  Farms don't want densities that encourage stress on their fish that is why they do not want overcrowding.

As shown in the film, biologist Alexandra Morton and others contend that by forcing B.C.'s wild salmon to run a gauntlet of fish farms and their effluent on their way to their Fraser River spawning grounds, the fish farms may essentially be infecting the Fraser's wild salmon populations, including sockeye and coho, with some of the most deadly diseases salmon suffer. As a result, say activists, the Fraser's salmon runs have crashed catastrophically, with between 10 and 13 million fish missing in the 2009 runs alone.

Hmmm...lots of reference to the film but not the Cohen Final Report. I wonder why?

All of the viral diseases can kill wild salmon, and some have been fingered as likely culprits in mass die-offs of Fraser River salmon before the fish can spawn.

Dumbest statement made on the website because it lacks context.  It  ignores what we already know about endemic and exotic viruses as well as the interaction between pathogens and other factors (i.e. environmental). Pathogens like viruses can kill wild salmon not always. Viruses don't necessarily lead to disease 100% of the time.

Though the movements of salmon during their oceangoing periods are somewhat of a mystery, it's also very likely that salmon that spawn in California rivers intermingle with Fraser River salmon while at sea. Though most salmon do return to their natal spawning rivers, some do end up in the wrong place and can thus offer yet another way for a virus to spread to previously uninfected streams.

More fear mongering.....Take straying and now use it to make the public fearful of exotic diseases and viruses that haven't been confirmed.  That's responsible.

"This NAFTA process is supposed to shine light on whether environmental laws are being enforced, but the process has become increasingly politicized and it's clear Canada does not want the facts revealed about the damage to wild salmon from industrial fish farms," said Jeff Miller with the Center for Biological Diversity.

Until we get some straight answers out of Canada -- if we ever do -- it's just one more good reason to buy only wild-caught salmon.


Hmmm....more like farm critics in Canada don't like what Cohen said and are frustrated with not having their doom and gloom prophecies coming to life. 
Logged

troutbreath

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2908
  • I does Christy
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2014, 08:27:19 PM »

Dave and SS are pretty happy with what that closet fishfarmer produces for xmas so no need plumping their goose.
Logged
another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

shuswapsteve

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 894
Re: Dave Was Asking For Some FF News
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2014, 08:53:38 PM »

I need to go buy a turkey actually. Seems like there are a few on this thread.
Logged