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Author Topic: Documentary Reveals Untold History Of Salmon Farms  (Read 9495 times)

aquapaloosa

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Re: Documentary Reveals Untold History Of Salmon Farms
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 06:56:56 PM »

http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/fraser_sockeye_vs_farmed_/2014/09/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon.html

Wow look at the comments at the end.  AM taking some heavy comments on her blog:

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As a student, scientist in training, and fish lover I find this very hard to believe. How can you exactly pinpoint that less salmon farms= more wild salmon. There are other factors that need to be considered here. Was there more food in the ocean for the sockeye this year? Maybe the number of predators have gone down. Were there fewer/more algae blooms this spring and summer? Was the temperature more ideal for the salmon? There are many things to consider before you go jumping the gun and saying that less salmon farms=more wild salmon.

I feel as though you are quick to make accusations without any proper data to back up your findings. You also extremely misinform the public. You claim that salmon farms dye the flesh pink.. however they do not at all. There is a certain carotenoid in their food, astaxanthin, which naturally causes the flesh to turn pink.

Salmon farms do not use hormones, but I know you have told the public otherwise... salmon farming is the most regulated industry in Canada.

I also wonder why you ignore Alaska's salmon ranching. Alaska pumps out millions of pinks and chums every year into the Pacific ocean to compete with our wild salmon. Alaska boasts about how it doesn't believe in salmon farming, however they just use a different word and are in direct contact with Pacific salmon. How can Alaska guarantee that their ranched salmon are not spawning with wild salmon? After all a ranched salmon is born in a hatchery.. and if that hatchery fish spawns with a wild fish it is messing with the wild salmon genetics.

Your claims are bogus and should be looked upon as void.

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As a scientist, don't you think it is premature to state (or even imply) that the shutting down of salmon farms is the direct cause of increased salmon runs? Certainly, salmon runs in Alaska and Russia are not affected by farming in the Fraser river. I support your work and I think you are a great advocate for ensuring the longterm health of our rivers, but I don't think you are doing justice for the cause by making links that are not yet substantiated. I'm happy to see sockeye numbers rebound, but we don't yet know why. There are any number of plausible explanations for this: declining bear population, climate change causing warmer ocean temperatures or more runoff from glaciers. Let's find out the real answers before we claim victory. - See more at: http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/fraser_sockeye_vs_farmed_/2014/09/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon.html#sthash.mfkEIxy8.dpuf/quote]

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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

chris gadsden

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Re: Documentary Reveals Untold History Of Salmon Farms
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 08:43:41 PM »

Wow look at the comments at the end.  AM taking some heavy comments on her blog:

Quote
As a scientist, don't you think it is premature to state (or even imply) that the shutting down of salmon farms is the direct cause of increased salmon runs? Certainly, salmon runs in Alaska and Russia are not affected by farming in the Fraser river. I support your work and I think you are a great advocate for ensuring the longterm health of our rivers, but I don't think you are doing justice for the cause by making links that are not yet substantiated. I'm happy to see sockeye numbers rebound, but we don't yet know why. There are any number of plausible explanations for this: declining bear population, climate change causing warmer ocean temperatures or more runoff from glaciers. Let's find out the real answers before we claim victory. - See more at: http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/fraser_sockeye_vs_farmed_/2014/09/fewer-salmon-farms-more-wild-salmon.html#sthash.mfkEIxy8.dpuf/quote]
We all get used of "heavy Comments " I take them here all the time. ;D ;D ;D

chris gadsden

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Re: Documentary Reveals Untold History Of Salmon Farms
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 08:48:21 PM »

Typically the "anti everything" types are quick to respond far before the actual facts surface.  Ie: its not a tanker!

From the comments:
The fact is its not a Tanker, if it was it would have been more than 200 miles off shore. And if it was a tanker loaded with product in the future from Kitimat it would have a tug escort and would be double hulled

Lets hope the Foss tug gets there soon and helps the ship to a safe place. its a very small container ship and talking about the small amount of fuel over the lives of the crew is just not right."

Not that I am pro oil.  I am pro truth. 

It is entertaining to watch the campaigners knee jerk reaction to this.  Its embarrassing.
What about all the other oil spills. Herer is a list for you.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_spills#Complete

shuswapsteve

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Re: Documentary Reveals Untold History Of Salmon Farms
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 11:13:06 PM »

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Salmon farms are a strong correlate with elevated prespawn mortality, lower productivity and higher unpredictability in fraser sockeye, but the even stronger factor that cannot be ignored is the mortality related signature found by DFO scientist, Dr. Miller. Millions of sockeye were dying in the Fraser just before spawning. No one could figure out why until Miller began reading their immune system via genomic profiling. Suddenly there was a pattern. The sockeye that were dying were fighting a virus, the ones that were surviving were not. While her work was terminated before the virus could be found and reported on, the response by the fish's immune system suggested a retrovirus, tumors, Leukemia. In the 1990s DFO discovered, named and reported on Salmon Leukemia virus in most, if not all the salmon farms in the Discovery Islands. They exposed sockeye to it and found it infected the sockeye. These are facts, but there has been no follow work done. – Alexandra Morton

How are salmon farms a strong correlate with elevated prespawn mortality, lower productivity and higher unpredictability in Fraser Sockeye?  Cohen didn’t see it that way so where is she getting this from – oh yeah, it’s her own feelings and emotions coming into play.  There is concern for elevated prespawn mortality, but folks need to understand that there is nothing abnormal about prespawn mortality in general terms.  Generally speaking, you will find increased prespawn mortality at the very beginning as the Sockeye enter their natal stream or lake, but as they approach peak of spawn the spawning success will improve.  There can be some parts of the watershed that will experience high prespawn mortality whereas other areas in the same season will be quite normal as compared to historical averages.

In 2009 (the year that initiated the Cohen inquiry), spawning success for Fraser Sockeye was actually good when compared to other years like in the late 90’s in the mid’2000s.  There can be systems with low prespawn mortality, but a high prevalence of IHNv and vice versa.  Last season, high prespawn mortality was anticipated with prolonged Fraser water temperatures, but that high prespawn mortality never materialized.  Salmon farms, as far as I know, were operating then.  So, if Morton wants to play games and suggest that there is a strong collorate there then go ahead.

As for lower productivity, if you look at the work from Randall Peterman who provided testimony at the inquiry he found productivity declines in not only Fraser Sockeye stocks, but also non-Fraser Sockeye stocks - in Canada and the US.  Don’t take my word for it – it’s in the Final report and the technical report (#10).  Morton knows it’s in there, but she chooses to ignore it.

We found that most Fraser and many non-Fraser sockeye stocks, both in Canada and the U.S.A., show a decrease in productivity, especially over the last decade, and often also over a period of decline starting in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Thus, declines since the
late 1980s have occurred over a much larger area than just the Fraser River system and are not unique to it. This observation that productivity has followed shared trends over a much larger area than just the Fraser River system is a very important new finding. More
specifically, there have been relatively large, rapid, and consistent decreases in sockeye productivity since the late 1990s in many areas along the west coast of North America, including the following stocks (from south to north).
– Randall Peterman and Brigitte Dorner (Cohen Technical Report 10; page 2)

As for calling Dr. Miller’s discovery a “virus” well the fact is that although Miller was very confident that it could be a virus she didn’t have the evidence to conclusively call it a virus – nor could she say that it actually caused disease.  Dr. Miller testified that the earliest she found this mortality-related signature was in November, before fish were going to smolt in their natal rearing areas.   Don’t take my word for it – it’s in the report.  Morton knows it’s in there but she chooses to ignore it.

As for the presence of tumours….well what did Cohen have to say about Dr. Miller's response:

Dr. Miller agreed that in a meeting of DFO scientists she distributed a paper entitled “Epidemic of a novel, cancer-causing viral disease may be associated with wild salmon declines in B.C.”  This paper was based on literature relating to the salmon leukemia virus, which was thought to involve optic tumours. Samples she examined carried very heavy vascularization on the outside of the optic lobe, but subsequent analysis showed these to be hemorrhages, not tumours.– Justice Bruce Cohen (Cohen Final Report; Vol. 2; Ch. 4; pg. 35)

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Please know I have done 10 years of extensive field work examining juvenile salmon as they approach and swim past salmon farms. I have co-published over 20 papers on this. There is nothing off-the-cuff about my views. - Alexandra Morton

That is one of the biggest flaws of her “research”.  There is more to the life history of Fraser Sockeye than the juveniles swimming past salmon farms.  They swim past a lot of things.  Her comments come across as arrogant – as if she already knows it all while in fact there is much we still need to learn.  The ocean phase of Fraser Sockeye is the least most understood.  Currently work is being done to track the migration of Sockeye smolts from there natal areas to the saltwater utilizing telemetry and ocean tracking (POST).  For someone that has co-published over 20 papers (correlative data and mathematical models) on this she has no idea where Sockeye spawn in Quesnel Lake or much about Harrison Sockeye.  My cat is more of an authority on Fraser Sockeye than Alexandra Morton.

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Doug - As stated in this blog, clearly something very good went on in the open Pacific. This generation of salmon found enough food to sustain themselves. For 18 - years British Columbia salmon returning to the Fraser River could not survive, even when runs from other countries were thriving. This suggests something was hitting them that was not hitting sockeye from the US and Russia. This year BC joined the ranks of countries enjoying good salmon runs. Whatever was suppressing BC wild salmon appears to have been lifted. We know the salmon farming industry uses salmon infected with pathogens, because they argued in favour of being allowed to continue doing this court in June. - Alexandra Morton

Clearly there is more going on than just salmon farms should have been the response, but then why try to ruin a great story.  Once again she fails to note the low productivity noted in non-Fraser Sockeye stocks in both the US and Canada.  Scott Hinch?  Scott who?  Also, no mention of massive numbers of smolts released by countries like Russia, Japan and the US (Alaska) from ocean ranching.  In BC, farmed salmon juveniles are released into net pens disease-free.

PRV (which has been beat to death like a dead horse) is found in Atlantic salmon which show no signs of disease (i.e. HSMI).  Additionally, it has been found in Pacific salmonids which show no signs of disease.  Salmon that have high concentrations of PRV do not show corresponding signs of disease either.  She talks about her recent study (low sample size, single year, computer modelling), but fails to mention that a recent study found that PRV found in BC farmed and wild salmon isn’t so new, but in fact has been around since 1977.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jfd.12285/abstract
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:43:39 PM by shuswapsteve »
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