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Author Topic: Best snagging day ever!!!!!  (Read 30804 times)

Fish Assassin

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2014, 03:36:33 PM »

And so, round and round in circles we go...

I think we should just re-pin an old topic from 4-6 years ago, every August so that people can add the same things to it.

Again and again and again....

Yup,
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2014, 03:38:30 PM »

Yes DanL, the wording is interesting, so far as regs go, and some of our stately neighbours are evolving their regs. Ethically, flossing is snagging and we can dress it up all we want and discuss regs and opinions and openings but at the end of the day it is what it is - a meat fishery that's accepted and open to all with a license and a 12' leader. No problem. It's not sportsfishing if the fish doesn't bite, outer maxillary or fin is a moot point. Is it fun? Sure. Is it legal? Sure. That's why discussing it is a razor's edge. It's a differing of choice, of opinion. Mine is not to floss.
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George Gordon Byron

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2014, 09:23:23 PM »

Sounds like TNA has unlocked the sockeye code!
Care to share with us your non flossing technique?
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RalphH

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2014, 08:06:59 AM »



I think we should just re-pin an old topic from 4-6 years ago, every August so that people can add the same things to it.


I want to go back to the days when fly fishing was the only ethical way to fish and gear anglers almost believed it too! ;D
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2014, 08:38:52 AM »

Sounds like TNA has unlocked the sockeye code!
Care to share with us your non flossing technique?

I can't describe it completely.  It is a little red winged bobber (quarter inch long probably) with green yarn.  Not the yarn you find in the stores though, knitting yarn and a specific color green that is hard to describe but sort of like pea green.  The color matches the flash on the side of I believe sticklebacks in the ocean so if you can try and see what that looks like in the water, match that.  A little bit more than the size of a pea.  Can't be too much or too little.  It has to be fished at just the right speed though.  Too fast and you won't touch much of anything.  Too slow and you won't get anything either.  The weight should be enough that the weight picks up for just a little tiny bit but no more than about 30% of your drift and no less than about 5% or 10%.  The weight picking up is just an indicator though as usually, if your drift is right, your bite will come the 20% of your swing before it picks up.

Of course, conditions change things.  I just heard that one of the last times my dad went fishing, the guys using the same set up caught all kinds of sockeye but couldn't touch a Chinook which is unusual.  One of the guys finally did, and then got three.  They were all inside the sockeye instead of outside which is where they usually are.  That required going through the whole drift and then letting it sit at the end of the drift, picking it up every so often so that it drifts a little further in.  Said he had to worry about the anchor rope of the guy below them but he hooked three Chinook that way.  Usually they are outside the sockeye but maybe with the numbers entering they are trying to avoid the sockeye and staying inside where the beach runner sockeye usually go.

Like I said before, we catch probably 95% of our fish straight up through the nose or straight down right in the middle of their mouth and there is very little doubt, the bigger Chinook will almost rip the pole out of your hand.  Some of the bigger sockeye will too.   The color of the yarn is very important though as off a couple shades and you won't get much of anything.  We have done plenty of experimenting, where one guy will put on a different shade of green when there are tons of fish in the water and it is amazing how that one person won't catch anything and the others will catch multiple.  It doesn't matter which person switches as we have done it in shifts and whoever doesn't have the right shade on, the bite disappears.  It used to be a way of taking a little bit of a break from fighting fish back when the sockeye numbers were consistently through the roof.

Of course, there are days where the fish are not in a biting mood.  The people flossing or snagging will still get their normal fish, but if a storm comes in or this year it was the horrible wind for a couple days, or if the nets have been in the water pounding them hard, we won't catch anything or not much.  Go out on a day where the fish aren't freaked out over something though, and we will outfish the flossers/snaggers 10 to 1, 50 to 1, even 100 to 1 some days. Heck, back in the 90s I remember going to Grassy and there were days we would see 25 sockeye caught all day in all the other boats combined.  And my dad and I would be out there, every second or third cast at most there was a fish.  I lost count of how many times we would both have one on.  We easily caught probably 150, so that was an entire stretch of boats that we outfished easily 6 to 1.  I couldn't lift my arms the next day.  We had guys anchoring right below us trying to figure out what we were fishing with and many that got pissed and went flying out of there  giving us a little rattle.  It amazed me that none had the courtesy of asking.
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typhoon

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2014, 01:47:04 PM »

The sockeye c&r study found 18% of fish were hooked inside the mouth.
100% of the fish were flossed.
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 01:49:26 PM »

Wow. That's an interesting stat, Typhoon.
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George Gordon Byron

TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2014, 01:55:03 PM »

The sockeye c&r study found 18% of fish were hooked inside the mouth.
100% of the fish were flossed.
Interesting.

My sample size is large enough that I can say with quite a lot of certainty that our fish were not flossed then.  Which leads me to believe that given the right conditions, sockeye will hit.  It just requires extra work that a lot of people don't want to put into their fishing.
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2014, 02:16:32 PM »

And your leader isn't crazy long? That's great, TNAngler! Years ago at a canyon creek mouth, I had sockeye 'mouth' a green dry fly consistently but they wouldn't devour it. Seemed more like a curiosity but who knows? A few others are trying new methods, too, and I wish them luck.

Either way, let's hope for a safe fishery for all involved. It can get hectic out there.
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There is pleasure in the pathless woods

George Gordon Byron

typhoon

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2014, 03:05:46 PM »

.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 10:17:39 PM by typhoon »
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Noahs Arc

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2014, 06:38:10 PM »

TNA, I think it would be beneficial for the sporting community for you to post a pic of the magic lure.
If you're not sure how to post you can email it to somebody to post.
How long is your leader? Can you explain the whole rig up from main line to hook?
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VAGAbond

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2014, 07:31:14 PM »

If TNA's method works in the non- tidal, it should work in the tidal section.  I bought some slow sink Bombarda floats from the UK and planned to give the tidal section a good try in 10 days or so when the fish are in the river in numbers.  I don't quite know what to tie on the end of the line so TNA's method is as good a way to start as any.  Let's get a picture of that rig.

'Quarter inch winged float'??   Is that a spin and glow?
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2014, 07:46:39 AM »

Well, see, the issue is that I am in TN and all the rigs are in WA.

Ok, tri-swivel with home made round ball weight on one side (we fished Grassy and were using 1.5 oz, 2 was too heavy, 1 too light, when we used to fish spaghetti, it was faster, so it was a 2 most of the time but if the water was up it would take a 3 oz).  On the other is some commercial net hanging line for about a foot with quarter inch size oakies on each side (this is to keep the sinker from destroying the line and also provide a little buoyancy to the line to keep it off the rocks).  Probably 8-10 feet of leader.  A red and white spin-n-glo like the one pictured here except small, probably half inch I guess, unless the water is horribly dirty and then this might need to go the next size or two up.



Then a red bead and then two little round disks (I don't know where these come from) to keep the above from getting tangled on the hook and spinning the hook (if you lower it in the water and watch, the spin-n-glo should be able to spin and the hook should remain still.

On the hook is yarn probably between the size of one pea and two peas.  This is the best match to the color that I could find on a quick search online.



Now, I know what is coming.  8 FEET OF LEADER!!!!!!!  You are snagging them because you are flossing them.  Except the numbers show that not to be true.  Granted, if there are a lot of fish in the river and you know what you are doing, you are able to feel the line going through the mouth sometimes.  Don't set the hook.  Even if it seems you have a fish on after that, just let it get off which it will do with a quick head shake (that hasn't happened in the last two years to me in the 10 days per year I was up there but my dad has said with some of the large groups coming in now it is happening sometimes).  The length of the leader is more a result of where the fish wish to strike and protecting the gear.  If you are in shallower water, shorter leader is fine because the lure should be closer to the bottom and you won't likely won't have huge rocks.  Given we are usually fishing in 10-15 feet of water where we are casting, that spin-n-glo starts out about 8 feet up, halfway to the bottom, and slowly sinks as it goes downstream so that when you get to the sweet spot it is at the right depth.  We used to use significantly shorter leader, like 2-3 feet and still caught fish so if you feel better doing that, feel free.  The reason we went a little longer is because with 2-3 feet of leader, your hook and spin-n-glo bang hard into too many rocks and after about half hour of fishing your hook is very dull and you go through 3 or so spin-n-glos in the course of a day, at least we did up at spaghetti (may it rest in peace, I miss that bar).  With the longer leader, hooks only need to be sharpened a couple times a day and you don't destroy the spin-n-glo (although the fish might do their own damage to it)

You have to make sure the spin-n-glo spins good.  The water can't be too slow.  It also seems to only work on rocky bottoms although not too big of rock as the sinker will get stuck too often.  I don't know if the fish prefer rocky bottom or if the sand slows the sinker down or speeds it up so that the rig doesn't fish right.  I've never done well on sandy bottom though so I think it is a fish preference.

It also doesn't seem to catch the really small sockeye.  They will hit it but they won't get hooked.  However, it often hooks the large sockeye, 10-14 pounders and they hit it hard.

And HOLD ON!  More than once my wife has about had the pole taken out of her hands because she wasn't ready but she didn't grow up fishing like this.  I had the "hold on to the pole right and tightly all the time" pounded into my head since I could walk pretty much.
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2014, 07:51:36 AM »

And your leader isn't crazy long? That's great, TNAngler! Years ago at a canyon creek mouth, I had sockeye 'mouth' a green dry fly consistently but they wouldn't devour it. Seemed more like a curiosity but who knows? A few others are trying new methods, too, and I wish them luck.

Either way, let's hope for a safe fishery for all involved. It can get hectic out there.

I think part of it is the color is something they are interested in but more than that, it is moving fast enough they see the flash and instincts take over.  If they have time to think about it, it doesn't seem like this works.  As the water gets clearer you have to go smaller (on the yarn but never less than the size of a pea).  It has to be instinctual, flash of green like food in the ocean, strike.  Not "what is that green thing coming down?  Looks like food.  Meh, I'm not hungry.  I'll just move over here."
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2014, 07:53:54 AM »

Great post, TNAngler. Thank you. I'll bet a few folks will try it out!
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There is pleasure in the pathless woods

George Gordon Byron