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[mojo7]

I was fishing a well known, accessible by transit, local, urban, hatchery enhanced  river  (0 to little natural spawning due to river geography and large water volume fluctuations) who's hatchery is well funded due to the proximity to tourists and a large recreational user base that has a very healthy bi annual coho return rate.

Guy beside me was casting a spoon and I was using wool and blade. We were both getting the odd fish, mostly pinks, and I got a nice dime bright spring jack that I bonked. We both hooked and lost a couple of coho and it was past dinner time when buddy beside me caught a pristine, 10 minutes out of the ocean, 10lb hatchery coho, the kind of dime bright ocean fresh coho this river is famed for...


by the tail. 


There was no one else around but me that could see that is was snagged and the guy was heartbroken having to let it go. He says to me "Damn! It's snagged" and proceeds to unhook it. I thought to  myself  this guy has been fishing ethically for 4 hours and letting go all the pinks (non retention in this particular river) and a couple of nice springs I would have kept. The coho in question would have probably ended up like 90% of the coho in this river as black zombies sitting in a pool with no where to spawn until a massive water level rise would have flushed its fungus infested, half rotten body down the river to feed the crabs in the ocean. At that thought I turned to the guy and said...

 "Look buddy you might as well keep the fish."

He looks up at me with surprise and confusion.

 I say "That is a perfect coho. Just keep it I won't say anything."

He eyes me suspiciously, and then tempted by the potential forthcoming gourmet dinner, he lets out a water testing..."It IS a nice fish"

I say "Take it home and have yourself a nice dinner. The thing is only going to rot and die anyway so you might as well make good use of it. The hatchery won't need it."

He says..."Are you sure?"

I say..."Just take it"

He says..."Well I am going home as it's getting late and I have a bit of a drive" and then he quickly gives the fish a head massage, cleans it and puts it in a bag and heads on home.

This guy was going to release the fish so he knows the rules and plays by them so I thought I'd give him a break and give him a nice dinner.

Alright guys let me have it...right or wrong?

[Johnny Canuck]

WRONG! You're promoting/encouraging snagging and poaching.

[leapin' tyee]

WRONG! You're promoting/encouraging snagging and poaching.

x2

[mojo7]

WRONG! You're promoting/encouraging snagging and poaching.

So you can't see the big picture? Only the written rules printed in tiny letters demanding compliance.

The guy was not a noobie he was fishing ethically, he was not attempting to snag as it was a by product of proper fishing method, the fish in this river are NOT endangered and would in all likelihood rot and die without spawning. I gave him a nice dinner and he was grateful.

Do you come to a complete stop at a stop sign on an empty rural 4 way intersection when there is no other traffic around?

[Stuart Dickinson]

Still wrong.  It is the thin end of the wedge.  And there are so many people out there who don't know or care about the rules.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"  A little extreme perhaps but the point is valid.  Every decision has a greater effect.  It is up to those of us who care and who know the rules to encourage others to do so.  None of us is perfect, I've forgotten to pinch barbs before, we are all human, but wilfully disobeying the rules and actively encouraging one of the other 'good guys' to break them is not cool.

[DanJohn]

I can see where youre coming from. No one will really agree with you, but in the real world, it happens.

My thoughts are, its a hatchery fish. Its not wild, its an enhanced, placed fish. That being said, rules are rules, and I tend to follow them. If someone is fishing in a meat fishery, and they want to keep ONE fish for dinner, then hooked in the mouth, hooked in the tail, it doesnt matter, as its no longer sport or recreation, but simply meat harvesting. Again, these are just my thoughts, and I dont encourage poaching, but at the end of the day, all the snaggers in Canada probably cant match the harm a couple nets do.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"  A little extreme perhaps but the point is valid.

Your analogy doesnt apply to this scenario as much as it does to someone who is actually harming the fish run. One person who takes a fish, be it mouth, tail, fin, doesnt matter, still takes one fish. I understand the idea of survival of the fittest, and that fish does not deserve to be taken out of the life cycle early, but even so, its one fish. If it were 20, 30, 500 fish, that will effect the health of the run. I would hardly say the guy who kept a snagged fish is evil, but simply selfish, maybe even greedy, but evil? I think thats more than a little extreme.

[Stuart Dickinson]

Your analogy doesnt apply to this scenario as much as it does to someone who is actually harming the fish run. One person who takes a fish, be it mouth, tail, fin, doesnt matter, still takes one fish. I understand the idea of survival of the fittest, and that fish does not deserve to be taken out of the life cycle early, but even so, its one fish. If it were 20, 30, 500 fish, that will effect the health of the run. I would hardly say the guy who kept a snagged fish is evil, but simply selfish, maybe even greedy, but evil? I think thats more than a little extreme.

I agree with you, I don't think it is 'evil', not even close.  My point, and use of that quotation is to say this:  If those who actually KNOW the rules and CARE about the health of ALL our fisheries choose to disobey them and encourage others to do so then what hope do we have?  Just because it is the Cap and the fish might die in a pool doesn't matter.  I'll offer another quote:  “Act as though the maxim of your action were by your will to become a universal law of nature.”

To me, the point isn't whether under those narrow circumstances, retaining a fish will negatively impact the population.  The point is what happens if, by encouraging that behaviour, that guy then goes out and does that on another river.  And then some guys see him doing it and say "why should I follow the rules if no-one else does?" 

It is a slippery slope, thin end of the wedge, whatever you want to call it.  Of course I don't literally mean that it is Evil, I used that quotation to illustrate the point that it is incumbent upon those of us who know and care to hold ourselves to a higher standard.  How can you be taken seriously if you care to raise a moral objection against those guys in the Okanagan who poached 50+ trout if they can say back to you - 'Well, you broke the rules too...'

What are you going to say... 'yeah but mine wasn't as bad as yours?'

[Fish Assassin]

Wrong

[bigblue]

I have seen a lot go on that river from the mouth all the way up to the top and some guys making up their own rules on what is acceptable for that river. No matter what the situation might be, you can't write your own regulations! What the OP did was WRONG!

[Ian Forbes]

Although it's wrong, I certainly would not get upset over it, and would probably do the same as Mojo under the same circumstances. There was nobody else around to cause problems and no bad examples being set. People can say a precedence is being set, but I disagree. Ethical behaviour is something we CHOOSE to do on our own and not just because others are looking. In our society we have a lot of rules and laws that we are somehow supposed to abide by. In many applications they are silly. How many here drive 5  to 10 km over the speed limit? No lying now. I know very few people who never speed. How many people here stop and wait several seconds at a stop sign when there is no traffic on the road. It is the law that you are supposed to come to a COMPLETE stop and look both ways at EVERY stop sign. Very few people do and few things are totally black or white. Ethics are what we are really debating here and I've heard a wide variety ethics on many different subjects.

[DanJohn]

I agree with you, I don't think it is 'evil', not even close.  My point, and use of that quotation is to say this:  If those who actually KNOW the rules and CARE about the health of ALL our fisheries choose to disobey them and encourage others to do so then what hope do we have?  Just because it is the Cap and the fish might die in a pool doesn't matter.  I'll offer another quote:  “Act as though the maxim of your action were by your will to become a universal law of nature.”

To me, the point isn't whether under those narrow circumstances, retaining a fish will negatively impact the population.  The point is what happens if, by encouraging that behaviour, that guy then goes out and does that on another river.  And then some guys see him doing it and say "why should I follow the rules if no-one else does?" 

It is a slippery slope, thin end of the wedge, whatever you want to call it.  Of course I don't literally mean that it is Evil, I used that quotation to illustrate the point that it is incumbent upon those of us who know and care to hold ourselves to a higher standard.  How can you be taken seriously if you care to raise a moral objection against those guys in the Okanagan who poached 50+ trout if they can say back to you - 'Well, you broke the rules too...'

What are you going to say... 'yeah but mine wasn't as bad as yours?'

I know you weren't being literal, I just wanted to point out that what happened is illegal, but not disgustingly wrong.

to your last point, it would be easy to expect to be taken seriously. it's like stealing a chocolate bar vs rape. both are crimes, one is a lot more sever than the other. really, I'm playing devils advocate here. I wouldn't do this, note would I offer the advice the op did, but if I saw it on a river, I wouldn't raise all kinds of hell, for the reasons I listed. a wild fish, or large quantity of fish and that's a different story.

I have seen a lot of sh** go on that river from the mouth all the way up to the top and some guys making up their own rules on what is acceptable for that river. No matter what the situation might be, you can't write your own regulations! What the OP did was WRONG!

Actually what the op did was give bad advice. what the other guy did was wrong.

[bigblue]

Actually what the op did was give bad advice. what the other guy did was wrong.

What I meant was that encouraging someone to break the law is wrong. What the other guy did was illegal.

[Sandman]

...Ethical behaviour is something we CHOOSE to do on our own and not just because others are looking...

Precisely why it was wrong, regardless of whether anyone was around to witness it and be influenced by it.  The OP encouraged the guy to break the law and keep a snagged fish, and the guy could have run into a CO on his way out to the car and now has to explain why his fish has a fresh wound on its tail and not in its lip.  Bottom line is the guy did not "catch" it, so he did not deserve to keep it no matter how long and hard he had tried prior. You can call me elitist now if you like, but this fish was not caught by fishing, it was caught by snagging.  If it was ok for him to keep a fish that he snagged, then it is ok for anyone to snag and keep fish as long as they have "tried hard" and know the rules.  The speeding analogy is telling.  If you drive 10km over the limit you likely feel the limit is too low, that you can safely drive at the higher speed.  If that is the case here, then you are suggesting that the law be changed and snagging should be allowed.  It does not really matter how many people roll stop at a stop sign, that is the thing about right and wrong, it doesn't matter how many people do it.  If it is wrong, it is wrong.

[KingOfEastVan]

Mojo7, I somehow suspect that the salmon you encouraged that guy to take was the exact SAME salmon I was destined to catch LEGALLY this Sunday - but now it's gone! Thanks a lot! No wonder I never catch anything - ever! Sheesh!

[hotrod]

So you told the guy you wouldn't say anything and now you've gone back on your word and we all know about it! LOL:))

 hotrod