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[skaha]

-kokanee bite so I don't see why sockeye wouldn't bite? I expect it would be much more difficult and much more work to actually catch one that bit a lure.

--the harvest is selective as catch and release kills some fish so whatever regulation is in place it is just a way to regulate what is killed vs what gets away. Regulations simply manage escapement.

--we do many things to provide different experiences.... these could be regulated geographically... similar to crosscountry ski trails and snowmobile trails... there are some areas where skiers are banned and some areas where snowmobiles are banned... doesn't mean they can't use the same parking lot.... one heads north one heads south... There will always be people who could not tollorate this and would insist they could not enjoy skiing if they can hear a snowmobile and there will be snowmobilers who will insist they have the right to roar up hills  that skiers are coming down.

[FlyFishin Magician]

I have no problem with a maximum leader length - but it should not apply to fly fishing since we'll often require a leader longer than 3 feet.   

[doja]

I have no problem with a maximum leader length - but it should not apply to fly fishing since we'll often require a leader longer than 3 feet.  

I don't know.... On the stave this year I saw lots of people fishing (more so snagging but they probably didn't know it) with single and double hand rods. A leader restriction may have prevented that shameful act from happening...

But on the flip side I saw a lady (who was spey casting very, very well and much better than me) spey fishing with the exact same set up and getting them all in the mouth (not back, fins).

This "rule" would not fly as it doesn't really do much and is too broad to ever be implemented or be effective.

I'm curious, is there any where in the world that has a leader restriction?

-kokanee bite so I don't see why sockeye wouldn't bite? I expect it would be much more difficult and much more work to actually catch one that bit a lure.

--the harvest is selective as catch and release kills some fish so whatever regulation is in place it is just a way to regulate what is killed vs what gets away. Regulations simply manage escapement.

The vedder has seen a 3x increase in returns to the hatchery since 2005. Clearly flossing is not harming the coho stock. NOTE: this  only apply s to the vedder

--we do many things to provide different experiences.... these could be regulated geographically... similar to crosscountry ski trails and snowmobile trails... there are some areas where skiers are banned and some areas where snowmobiles are banned... doesn't mean they can't use the same parking lot.... one heads north one heads south... There will always be people who could not tollorate this and would insist they could not enjoy skiing if they can hear a snowmobile and there will be snowmobilers who will insist they have the right to roar up hills  that skiers are coming down.

You are so right, skaha. It's more about not wanting to share with other user groups that they don't agree with. This happens in almost every sport. Surfers don't like kayakers, snowboarders don't like skiers, ethical fishermen don't like floss fishermen.

Now it would be kinda alright to see areas designed for a particular style of fishing as different styles don't usually mix well, but in reality that is sorta of happening, tamahi-flossing, KWB-flossing/snagging, etc. The spots I fish I rarely see this stuff (except the vedder) and usually have a spot to my self or just a couple people (also including the vedder). If you don't like the gong show don't fish there...

And the OP stated "unless they impose a maximum leader length we're going to have to put up with the gong show". It appears he is more concerned about sharing spots then saving the fish, LOL.

[FlyFishin Magician]

Sometimes, when a run is choked full of fish (e.g. chum), the fly is not the best because the presentation will go right through the fish.  One thing I would do is lighten my tip and this should result in less foul hooked fish.  Also, I do not strike on every hesitation.  The key is learning to tell the difference between a fish taking the fly, as opposed to brushing up against the fly.  However, even when doing these things - you can still inadvertently snag fish - particularly when picking up the line to cast if you're not careful.  This has happened to me many times and I switched up to a drift rod and foul hooked less fish.

Problem with the fly is that the leader is part of the presentation.  It needs to be tapered or the line will not cast properly.  The leader is an extention of the fly line.  Sure - very short leaders will work on certain occasions, but for the most practical purposes, leaders will be longer than 3 feet.   

[burnaby]

Imposing short leader (<18") with small hooks (size 1 or greater) would greatly minimize the snagging or at least reduce damages of body snags.

BTW: A short (9") leader with a small hook is a deadly combination in the skilled hands.


doja> Excellent points. Only ethical sport is hiking on a vegetarian diet; rest is barbaric in someone's eye. The collapse of the Atlantic cod fishery is proof of the damages of Commercial over harvesting that now gives power to DFO to protect the Pacific fishery by shutting down commercial Salmon harvest whenever stock abundance is a concern.

Doubt the fish cares whether you floss or bait. Anyone see the video of cows with guns, if fish had guns all the anglers would be shot.

[t-bone]

how is long leader (4 feet) and different from a flyrod line?

I adjust my leader baseed on water clarity - not to floss fish (which I think would be really hard on the vedder).

[t-bone]

sorry for the bad spelling above. My main point is: longer leader is ok if your not snagging (or intending to) and ripping through pools.

[cutthroat22]

When i use cheaper jigs I am able to bend the hook inwards.  I can then jig through hundreds of fish without snagging one.  If I drift the jig occasionally I will snag but not usually.

So....how about some kind of hook restriction where the point has to be inwards?  You can still floss and snag fish but it is a lot more difficult.

[skaha]

--If DFO or whomever believes it is appropriate for a section or river and species to harvest via snagging... It should be a separate permit... and the quota should not be counted against the recreational sport harvest numbers.
--I do care but if there are enough fish for a harvest and it is sanctioned then the harvested fish should be assigned a quota with its own set of regulations, fees and those that want this harvest can get in line with the rest of us when the quota is dished out, or not.
--If we don't want to witness this harvest then we can stay away from the designated areas when it is occuring.

--similar to hunting license.. I have one but cannot shoot a whitetale deer without a tag and there are specific regulations to that harvest which have different times and locations from the harvest of other species.

[wizard]

--If DFO or whomever believes it is appropriate for a section or river and species to harvest via snagging... It should be a separate permit... and the quota should not be counted against the recreational sport harvest numbers.
--I do care but if there are enough fish for a harvest and it is sanctioned then the harvested fish should be assigned a quota with its own set of regulations, fees and those that want this harvest can get in line with the rest of us when the quota is dished out, or not.
--If we don't want to witness this harvest then we can stay away from the designated areas when it is occuring.

--similar to hunting license.. I have one but cannot shoot a whitetale deer without a tag and there are specific regulations to that harvest which have different times and locations from the harvest of other species.

and what would this accomplish?  legalize poaching?  just because there's lots of people who poach doesn't mean they should be allowed to in certain areas.  this would cause lots of problems, people would just poach other systems and say, "oh I thought we're allowed to snag anywhere now", or "oh...i thought the whole river was open to snagging".  I compare your proposed scenario to retention of sturgeon.  if they allowed retention of sturgeon it would lead to a whole lot more sturgeon being killed then what would legally be accounted for.  it would be feeding the fire if it were.

why are people so intent on fishing for fish that won't bite their presentations.?  how hard is it to just walk away and fish for something that will actually bite?

[chris gadsden]

and what would this accomplish?  legalize poaching?  just because there's lots of people who poach doesn't mean they should be allowed to in certain areas.  this would cause lots of problems, people would just poach other systems and say, "oh I thought we're allowed to snag anywhere now", or "oh...i thought the whole river was open to snagging".  I compare your proposed scenario to retention of sturgeon.  if they allowed retention of sturgeon it would lead to a whole lot more sturgeon being killed then what would legally be accounted for.  it would be feeding the fire if it were.

why are people so intent on fishing for fish that won't bite their presentations.?  how hard is it to just walk away and fish for something that will actually bite?

Yes I have wondered for a long time why people need a fish so bad they have to take it by flossing, sweeping, ripping, snagging or Tow ing. Unfortunately I don't think it will change in the near future for many people. Saying that some people have stopped doing it after reading posts on this and other forums when they acknowledge to themselves it is not a very sporting way to take a fish. It appears these days a very high percentage of people thinks it OK and have many reasons as are stated on this thread to justify it. I guess it is just a sign of the times we live in.

[skaha]

--I'm not proposing to legislate people into compliance... My suggestion is that IF there is an area that is proposed and accepted for harvest that it be assigned a harvest quota and not come out of the quota of sport recreational fishery but be assigned a quota.

--If there are people who want to harvest fish by snagging they should form their own group and lobby for a legitimate opportunity.  I do not appreciate people fishing illegally under the guise of sport fishing and using up a portion of the quota assigned to and fought for by the sport fishing community.

[VAGAbond]

Keep in mind that the readers of this and other forums are a very small percentage of fishers.  I fished in BC for 40 years, including a bit of river fishing, and had never heard the term flossing prior to starting to read this forum a few years back.  I doubt there are 10% of my fishing associates who have ever heard of flossing.  Mostly they don't river fish so why should they but they are capable of looking to see what works and copying.

This past summer I introduced a young fellow from the prairies to the joys of flossing sockeye on the Fraser.    He opined that the method would probably work on the Chilliwack.   When I advised that the technique was not used on most other rivers, being a bright fellow, after a short consideration he observed that there must be some unwritten rules.    That is a key observation, you are expecting people to observe unwritten rules.   

[skaha]

--Funny thing: I learned how..not to floss while fly fishing on the Adams.. several years ago.. On the Adams the target fish is rainbow trout... either resident rainbows in the river or larger lake rainbows that gather at the mouth. One of the methods is to drift a single egg pattern... often when the river is stacked with sockeye..
--It is a real pain in the butt if you floss a sockeye as it reduces your fishing time for trout and if you only have a few egg pattern fly's you don't want to have to break them off and loose them.
--Rather than cheering you for flossing a sockeye most anglers there laugh as you loose your spot on the trout fishing run while trying to retrieve your fly. We mostly thought a flossed sockeye was a sign of lack of fishing experience or momentary loss of concentration and never considered it as a method to catch fish.

--Same deal when trying to catch whitefish or trout with egg patterns on the Thompson either with fly rod or bottom bouncing with a bait caster... again you are trying to avoid salmon by-catch.

[alwaysfishn]

Yes I have wondered for a long time why people need a fish so bad they have to take it by flossing, sweeping, ripping, snagging or Tow ing. Unfortunately I don't think it will change in the near future for many people. Saying that some people have stopped doing it after reading posts on this and other forums when they acknowledge to themselves it is not a very sporting way to take a fish. It appears these days a very high percentage of people thinks it OK and have many reasons as are stated on this thread to justify it. I guess it is just a sign of the times we live in.

The reason is the same as why native and commercial fishermen use their nets......   People need to eat, they like the taste of salmon and they have figured out an effective, and efficient way to catch them. This isn't just a sign of the times, this has gone on for generations.

I have a problem with fishermen that break the law, however I disagree with labeling fishermen as non-sporting when they are using legal techniques to catch fish. Implementing new rules like regulating leader lengths and types of gear without more CO's to enforce those regulations would be pointless.