Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bentrod]

speaking of pikeminnows, has the dfw or other ever entertained the notion of a bounty on them like in Washington State?   

[chris gadsden]

speaking of pikeminnows, has the dfw or other ever entertained the notion of a bounty on them like in Washington State?   

Has been talked about but that is as far as it got. The recent derby at Cultus paid out $2 for each PM caught.

[Robert_G]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Northern Pikeminnows (Squawfish) native to the Fraser River Watershed? If they are native as opposed to introduced, who are we to decide they need to be annihilated?

[Stealth]

Pikeminnows are an important part of the Fraser rivers ecosystem and they do not hurt salmon, They are the cleaners of the river and provide food for many animals including Ospreys, Eagles, Herron's and of course Sturgeon. They are very important and to try to eliminate them would be disastrous to the ecosystem.

[Robert_G]

I hear ya Stealth...the same stuff is heard on the hunting forums about how we need to kill all the wolves so that we will have more deer to hunt. Nature can balance itself out.....if we would just let it.
Just like the Cultus Lake Sockeye lived in harmony with the Pikeminnows for thousands of years. I can never figure out how we think killing off one type of fish or animal will help another speices.

For example.
In some parts of the world, they have annhilated the bat population...little did they know (but they do now) that bats eat mosquitoes by the thousands and now they have more malaria outbreaks then ever before.
When man starts to tinker with nature...the results are almost always disasterous.

[chris gadsden]

I hear ya Stealth...the same stuff is heard on the hunting forums about how we need to kill all the wolves so that we will have more deer to hunt. Nature can balance itself out.....if we would just let it.
Just like the Cultus Lake Sockeye lived in harmony with the Pikeminnows for thousands of years. I can never figure out how we think killing off one type of fish or animal will help another species.

For example.
In some parts of the world, they have annihilated the bat population...little did they know (but they do now) that bats eat mosquitoes by the thousands and now they have more malaria outbreaks then ever before.
When man starts to tinker with nature...the results are almost always disastrous.

Which we have done that is why fish along with lots of other species are in trouble which includes us. Needless to say human greed is part of the problem and putting profit before looking after the environment and those that depend on its health at the top of the list. 

[bentrod]

Northern pikeminnow eat millions of salmon and steelhead juveniles each year in the Columbia and Snake River systems. The goal of these programs is not to eliminate northern pikeminnow, but rather to reduce the average size and curtail the number of larger older fish. Reducing the number of these predators can greatly help the salmon and steelhead juveniles making it out to sea.  National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), and the US Army Corps of Engineers agree that this program is very effective and does not crash the ecosystem; therefore they continue to fund it.  Many Environmental Impact Studies have been written about these programs.  They are available for review.  It is easy for the average Joe to make correlations between bats, gray wolves and Northern Pikeminnows.  Before simplistic statements trying to influence others opinions are made, please take the time to understand these things.



   

[chris gadsden]

Northern pikeminnow eat millions of salmon and steelhead juveniles each year in the Columbia and Snake River systems. The goal of these programs is not to eliminate northern pikeminnow, but rather to reduce the average size and curtail the number of larger older fish. Reducing the number of these predators can greatly help the salmon and steelhead juveniles making it out to sea.  National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS), and the US Army Corps of Engineers agree that this program is very effective and does not crash the ecosystem; therefore they continue to fund it.  Many Environmental Impact Studies have been written about these programs.  They are available for review.  It is easy for the average Joe to make correlations between bats, gray wolves and Northern Pikeminnows.  Before simplistic statements trying to influence others opinions are made, please take the time to understand these things.



   

Good points.

[Robert_G]

Bentrod...you are missing the point.

What I'm trying to say is that the Cultus Lake Sockeye co-existed with the Pikeminnow for thousands of years BEFORE man intervened. If they co-existed for that long, why all of a sudden do we need to step in and 'tinker'?
The Cultus Lake Sockeye used to be a very healthy productive run of fish....and without us killing the Pikeminnows. My point is that it is man's tinkering...and agreeing with Chris that it is also greed and corruption that have ruined the Cultus Lake Sockeye as well as other species.

[Stealth]

The Columbia and Snake systems are heavily dammed thus changing that eco system, the Fraser still flows free and because of this the timing of the pikeminnow and salmon spawning and fry/smolt migration has not been modified so the pikeminnow do not present a significant problem to the salmon.

[Nitroholic]

The Columbia and Snake systems are heavily dammed thus changing that eco system, the Fraser still flows free and because of this the timing of the pikeminnow and salmon spawning and fry/smolt migration has not been modified so the pikeminnow do not present a significant problem to the salmon.

the fraser itself might not be dammed though some of its tributaries are...

[Every Day]

Bentrod...you are missing the point.

What I'm trying to say is that the Cultus Lake Sockeye co-existed with the Pikeminnow for thousands of years BEFORE man intervened. If they co-existed for that long, why all of a sudden do we need to step in and 'tinker'?
The Cultus Lake Sockeye used to be a very healthy productive run of fish....and without us killing the Pikeminnows. My point is that it is man's tinkering...and agreeing with Chris that it is also greed and corruption that have ruined the Cultus Lake Sockeye as well as other species.

Robert... you are missing a VERY important point on the Cultus socks.
Yes the pikeminnow and socks lived together and were productive together years ago but...

Since the introduction of milfoil into Cultus Lake pikeminnow numbers exploded.
The numbers before were in balance because pikeminnow also prey on their own young, but with milfoil the young had more places to hide and grow to larger sizes.
The milfoil also allowed the larger fish to ambush the smolts that are swimming around in the open water column and not the weeds.
Eliminating them IMO (since I worked up there this summer) has only helped this ecosystem.
Sockeye escapement numbers were up in the past 5 years (period of program) and other pops of fish such as trout were in greater numbers as well.

And I wouldn't say these are massively important to the Fraser system.
The sturgeon have the salmon and other fish to feed on, and the one or two pikeminnow they find dead wont help them that much.
Same goes for all the eagles, etc.

I agree that man's tinkering and greed do destroy habitats and that nature could balance itself out, but Cultus Lake is a bad example.
Those sockeye need all the help they can get and with the milfoil the pikeminnow numbers won't be at an equilibrium.
Can't see that run coming back anyways, go whichever direction the wind is blowing after a weekend and look at the oil on the water.

[Robert_G]

That makes more sense Every Day.
So the bottomline IS the fact we are dealing with an introduced species....that being the millfoil.
The fact also remains that without man's tinkering, the Cultus Sockeye would probably continue to live in harmony with the Pikeminnow.

Anyways....are there ways to remove millfoil once it is introduced....or is that a done deal?

[skaha]

--selective harvest such as a bounty with size, geographic area and quota can be useful management tools.
--must be thoughfully used, measured and monitored so to judge success or failure in the specific area applied.

-populations fluctuate we generally tend to want the populations static as easier to manage if we know and can predict exact numbers and composition.. size, age sex etc., maybe we have to learn to better deal with these fluctuations and live with the frustrations of opening and closing fisheries geographically on a regular basis.  Like rotating cattle grazing patterns... at least we can see the grass and know when it is being overgrazed.

-I think we are sadly lacking in good population predictions thus hampering well intentioned management strategies.  It's easier to apply after the fact gear restrictions, bounties and closures that just appear to be management with no useful measurement of how effective they are.

[Stealth]

"And I wouldn't say these are massively important to the Fraser system.
The sturgeon have the salmon and other fish to feed on, and the one or two pikeminnow they find dead wont help them that much. Same goes for all the eagles, etc."


Every Day, While you may have a valid point for Cultas lake you could not be more wrong when talking about the Fraser. Pikeminnows and very important to the ecosystem. Eagles may only get a occasional meal from them but Ospreys, Herons and Cormorants all rely on them and who only knows what else. As far as Sturgeon are concerned they absolutely feed on Pikeminnows and not just dead ones. Make no mistake Sturgeon are active hunters and easily feed on many LIVE organisms particularly Pikeminnows. On years when they don't get many oollies and salmon stocks are low they really rely on these fish to survive. Pikeminnows are regular and important part of the Sturgeons diet, particularly the larger fish.