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[ChromeBar]

Definitly would need strict enforcement were talking no excuses.. In africa the penalty for shooting an animal out of season is death!

[lapa]

Does somebody know how many of 528 Chinooks from test fishery are actually under 77cm?

[liketofish]

Yea, it would be nice to have the size info. If most of the fish is larger than 77cm, why bother even open the fishery to the sporties for c/r. Just stay home and find something else to do than harrassing the big spawners risking them not making it to home streams. One more point though. If DFO are having a size restriction to protect the bigger spawners, they should also limit the size of their nets to not kill the bigger fish. Isn't it logical? But you bet they won't bother. Restriciton is only on us poor sporties. Where do those fish killed in test nets go though? Natives? Markets? Employee benefits/parties? Hope not the last one. 

On the point of letting the nets in the Fraser, it is a pity that DFO has not learned from the lesson of the sockeyes. Sockeye stocks, even much more numerous than springs, cannot survive the nets in the Fraser. So how will springs stand the massive killing of the nets? If the natives cannot take sockeyes, and they turn their effort to harvesting springs with their mighty drift nets, all the science of managing springs can be out of the window. A few more days of opening can wipe out the run of a rive or trib. These nets scoop up every fish as they drift down, except the tiny ones. Too bad for the fish. They can't stand a chance against modern killing machines. 

[Every Day]

Yea, it would be nice to have the size info. If most of the fish is larger than 77cm, why bother even open the fishery to the sporties for c/r. Just stay home and find something else to do than harrassing the big spawners risking them not making it to home streams. One more point though. If DFO are having a size restriction to protect the bigger spawners, they should also limit the size of their nets to not kill the bigger fish. Isn't it logical? But you bet they won't bother. Restriciton is only on us poor sporties. Where do those fish killed in test nets go though? Natives? Markets? Employee benefits/parties? Hope not the last one. 

On the point of letting the nets in the Fraser, it is a pity that DFO has not learned from the lesson of the sockeyes. Sockeye stocks, even much more numerous than springs, cannot survive the nets in the Fraser. So how will springs stand the massive killing of the nets? If the natives cannot take sockeyes, and they turn their effort to harvesting springs with their mighty drift nets, all the science of managing springs can be out of the window. A few more days of opening can wipe out the run of a rive or trib. These nets scoop up every fish as they drift down, except the tiny ones. Too bad for the fish. They can't stand a chance against modern killing machines. 

I was gonna be done with this but....

First of all limiting the size of the nets will only catch MORE fish. They can't make the mesh bigger to avoid getting bigger fish cause then you won't get any, only smaller and will start getting sockeye and other by-catch rater than springs. So 528 Springs or a whole lotta sockeye in the nets as well.

Secondly, before you go blaming natives for the collapse of sockeye stocks you should really know what you are talking about. It may have something to do with the netting, but more frequent high water periods to wipe out reds on smaller rivers, warmer temps heating rivers to lethal temps, poor ocean survival conditions (having to do with feed in the ocean occurring earlier and faster due to higher temps earlier on in the year), netting in the ocean, sea lice, etc. These ALL have a huge impact on the stocks, and you can't go blaming just one group when I bet you were taking your 2 a day every year it was open, and that doesn't take long to build up when there are literally thousands of people on every bar from Chilliwack to Hope.

I also need to comment on the "mighty drift nets." I work with natives and have been inquiring about things like openings, different netting strategies and how many they get per net. The drift net is not at all as effective as you may think, and that is why DFO has that type of netting open right now (on Saturdays for 12 hr openings). The lady I work with goes out with her husband for a 12 hr opening and says an EXCEPTIONAL day is 50 fish. She said an average is more like 10, and on recent trips they have only been getting as few as 3. SET NETS on the other hand are the ones that do the damage, she said you can easily get 200 fish in 6 or so hours in one of those and they need to check the nets 2 -3 times a day because they get so jammed with fish.

I guess I'll stay out of this again until another uneducated, biased remark.

[alwaysfishn]

DFO does restrict the net mesh size and by making the net mesh size smaller the large fish will bounce off the nets rather than getting caught in them. A large spring is not going to get caught in the same net that a sockeye or small spring is getting caught in. I also suspect that the natives are not targeting large springs. Firstly they don't like catching large springs because they make a tangled mess in their nets and secondly there are sockeye in the river and they are much more marketable for those that choose to do so......

I agree with the drift net comments, set nets are more effective as the fish generally hug the shore in the slower water as they swim upstream.

[ChromeBar]

EveryDay , You keep basing your opinion on the thought that the only time the nets are in are on scheduled openings.. when in fact thats not the case. How often are you on the fraser?? I'm assuming you are not out there too much but I may be wrong.I spend between 150 and 200 days on the water and in the summer time it is not unusual to see some sort of netting going on everyday. I agree that set nets are much worse.. so take a drive up to yale and take a look at what is going on in the canyon there. The fact is that DFO ether chooses to ignore it or dosen't have the funding to properly enforce it. We all know that natives are not the only ones to blame i just feel that the nets are something we can deal with right now. As far as the thousands of sporties taking there limit everyday it's actually a small percentage of people consistantly taking there limit.

[liketofish]

Everyday, you are right to say I could take 2 sockeyes everyday I went out. Ya, right. That was years ago before the natives were netting like crazy. With their nets in, there were days when I took 10+ hours to get my limit and days with none. Many fellow fishermen report the same. Even a lot of the sockeyes caught were smallish with net marks. That tells the picture of the total annihilation by the drift nets. Only small fish got through. You guys are right about dirft nets not that 'mighty', but only in the lower river where it is much deeper than areas above Mission. From that point on, the river is fast and shallow. The nets took lots of fish in those areas where it is narrow, fast, and shallow. It is morally wrong that natives can operate drift nets in those areas, for the nets vacuum suck everything on their path. That has been my experience. If you fish within 1 or 2 days from the drift nets opening, you are like fishing dead water, not a thing.

[Every Day]

Chrome bar...
I drive over the fraser, along side it and work on it 5 days out of the week. I happen to work up in Yale as well.
So far I haven't seen any nets in there, but then again I guess I may not see as much of the river as you.
I also happen to know how many fish are going through... and if there are is many nets in the river as you say, they sure aren't doing a good job.

alwaysfishn...
Like I said making the mesh smaller will not do anything good for the sockeye runs which is what they are concerned with right now.
Why would DFO make the mesh size smaller at Albion to catch the sockeye they are trying to protect (Early Stuarts), rather than catch a minimal amount or larger fish?
I guess that sure, there may be the few that target the sockeye and kill them illegally, but once again you are clustering all the natives into the nutshell that they all poach fish, when this isn't the case. There are those that follow the rules and those that poach, just like on the rivers with rod and reel, not everyone openly breaks the law.

liketofish...
Once again, the lady I work with drifts up in Yale and it is no where as effective as set nets.
Fish will come up along the sides up there and through the whole river because they want the easiest path, drifting along the sides can be dangerous and a hassle with all the debris stuck along the sides, so they have to stay out away from the edges therefore making the drift nets less effective. Set nets are put right in the direct route of a fish' path. I just believe you are mixing up set nets and drift nets, because there is no way drift nets are going to be wiping the whole river clean of fish.

Just for the record I use to fish the Fraser a lot. I totally know about the void of fish after the openings of nets (which are set nets, not drift nets). Yes only the small fish get through and yes the set nets do a number on the stocks. I use to be, and still am totally against the natives netting. I wanted more info on it and went right to the direct source rather than making my own opinions without any knowledge about the topic. From what I can see as long as DFO keeps set nets closed the stocks will be way better off.

[alwaysfishn]

alwaysfishn...
Like I said making the mesh smaller will not do anything good for the sockeye runs which is what they are concerned with right now.
Why would DFO make the mesh size smaller at Albion to catch the sockeye they are trying to protect (Early Stuarts), rather than catch a minimal amount or larger fish?

I wasn't talking about DFO's test sets, I was talking about the native's nets. Here is some info on the nets used at Albion:
The Albion Chinook test fishery has operated since 1981 on the lower Fraser River at Albion (near Fort Langley). The test fishery is conducted with a drifted gill net at a specific site near the old Albion ferry crossing. The fishery begins in early April of each year, and fishes until mid-October. On each day of operation, the boat fishes two sets, timed to coincide with the daily high tide.

The Chinook test fishery normally fishes every day from April 1st through August 31st. During this period, the test boat uses two different nets which fish on alternating days: the "standard" Chinook net, which is constructed using eight-inch mesh; and a "multi-panel" net, which consists of panels of six, seven, eight, and nine inch mesh. The purpose of the multi-panel net is to ensure representative sampling of Chinook passing through the lower Fraser River, due to the wide range of body sizes observed in Fraser River Chinook stocks. Use of the multi-panel net began in 1997 - prior to that, the test fishery operated with the eight-inch mesh net only.

From September 1st through October 20th, the Albion Chinook test fishery fishes every other day, alternating days with the chum test fishery (which fishes a 6.75 inch mesh gill net). Throughout this period, the Chinook test fishery uses the eight-inch mesh net exclusively.

Both gill nets used in the Albion Chinook test fishery are 200 fathoms long.

Since its inception in 1981, the Albion test fishery has been conducted by the fishing vessel "Witch Doctor".

I guess that sure, there may be the few that target the sockeye and kill them illegally, but once again you are clustering all the natives into the nutshell that they all poach fish, when this isn't the case. There are those that follow the rules and those that poach, just like on the rivers with rod and reel, not everyone openly breaks the law.

Re-read my post and show me where I said that all natives poach fish. Your comparison of natives that poach using nets and fishermen that poach using rod and reel is like comparing a watermelon to a sunflower seed. Even though both acts are illegal the damage a native poacher with a net causes is 100's of time greater than the rod and reel poacher!

That's why the focus on native poachers!!

[liketofish]

You are right on, Alwaysfishn. To compare the two on stock damage is just unrelistic. Chris once reported counting 700 nets from the river mouth to up the Fraser canyon. Even if those nets are legal, how many fish can zig zag 700 times to avoid them? LOL. If a small % of them also poach, then the damage is way more than a few guys with one rod and one reel (even though there is no excuse for these rod & reel poachers). Nets are what DFO need to be concerned for stock convervation.