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Author Topic: Canadian democracy in action!  (Read 3484 times)

Terry D

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Canadian democracy in action!
« on: September 11, 2008, 10:05:03 AM »

Just received this via email and thought you may like to see it (bet you won't like the contents though):

OUR INDUSTRY NEWS SOURCE
 
Parliament Rejects British Columbians Concerns on Tsawwassen Treaty
Bill Otway SDA

This past June our National Parliament in Ottawa chose to ignore the concerns of many British Columbians by passing Bill C 34: the act to install the Tsawwassen Treaty. The members of parliament, with the exception of BC MP John Cummins and Alberta MP Art Hanger, refused to even provide an hour to listen to the concerns of a number of British Columbians, individuals and organizations that asked to appear before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs. Moreover, they would not even take the time to look at the briefs submitted by these BC organizations and individuals. 
 
The Sportfishing Defence Alliance (SDA), for example, in its brief, which the committee members refused to read, tried to point out the implications of the treaty on fish and wildlife management, and the impacts on the rights of other Canadians. The SDA noted that the Nisga'a Treaty had resulted in an annual assignment of 20 salmon per year per person for the members of the Nisga'a bands. The Tsawwassen Treaty, as negotiated and agreed to by the government, provided for 468 salmon per year per person for the Tsawwassen band members.
 
This type of provision repeated throughout the Fraser River based on population would require an annual allotment of18,720,000 Fraser River salmon for First Nations' use within the Fraser River alone. If you estimated the Tsawwassen share on the basis of giving the same amount to every other band on the Fraser, you would only require 12,263,419 Fraser River salmon for the bands in the Fraser River. One of the key concerns of the SDA and other BC organizations was the entrenchment of harvest agreements with the treaty to give, in perpetuity, an exclusive share of our salmon harvest to the Tsawwassen Band to use for commercial purposes. This is a direct infringement of the Canadian right to fish and is contradictory to the findings of the Supreme Court of Canada (see SCC Judgments, Regina vs. Gladstone 1996, par. 67).  Following is the June 4, 2008, transcript from the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs dealing with clause by clause review - a 600-page document: 

The Chair: Okay. Well, if the committee likes, we can move to .... Maybe I'll ask someone to move whether we move to clause-by-clause. 
Ms. Jean Crowder: I move that we move to clause-by-clause immediately. 
The Chair: Seconded by Mr. Russell.
 (Motion agreed to) 
The Chair: It passes. So be it. We'll move directly into clause-by-clause.  We'll take one minute for the agenda to be distributed to committee members. 
Ms. Jean Crowder: Can I make a motion that we move all clauses in one motion? 
The Chair: We will proceed in that way. But rather than a motion, I'll deal with clause-by-clause consideration. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the preamble and clause 1 are postponed to the end. (Clauses 2 to 33 inclusive agreed to).
The Chair: Shall the short title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed. 
The Chair: Shall the preamble carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed. 
The Chair: Shall the title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed. 
The Chair: Shall the bill carry? 
Some hon. members: Agreed. 
The Chair: Shall the chair report the bill to the House? 
Some hon. members: Agreed. 
The Chair: That's it. The bill is passed.

Canadian democracy in action!  John Cummins stood up for all Canadians.

September/October www.bcosportfishing.com15

I have the actual email if some would like it forwarded.
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Shooter

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 10:11:26 AM »

i wouldn't mind a copy....

ah__shit@hotmail.com
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milo

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 11:04:22 AM »

Lots of bad math above if you check out the Fraser Basin FN demographics as per the 2006 census. ::)
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salmon river

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 01:59:31 PM »

What are the numbers? I found this http://www.shim.bc.ca/atlases/fbc/ss3/Aboriginal.html that states the population of Aboriginal origin in the Fraser Basin was 115,000 and the population of Aboriginal identity was 88,000.
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Fish Assassin

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 02:07:10 PM »

Proof that politicians really don't give a hoot about our fishery
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milo

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 03:14:20 PM »

What are the numbers? I found this http://www.shim.bc.ca/atlases/fbc/ss3/Aboriginal.html that states the population of Aboriginal origin in the Fraser Basin was 115,000 and the population of Aboriginal identity was 88,000.

You got the numbers.
Now do the math as per the opening post.

The numbers are ludicrous.

Who came up with the 468 salmon per person per year anyway?
Couldn't find any reference to it anywhere on the net.

Smells fishy to me. ;)

« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 03:25:34 PM by milo »
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Terry D

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 12:20:21 PM »

Milo, I contacted Bill Otway at the SDA and he said that he came up with that number by calculating and adding up the number of salmon allocated in the Treaty by the various species and dividing that total by the reported population of the Tsawwassen Band.  The Treaty itself sets out the numbers with regard to FSC allocations, and the Harvest Agreement sets out the Commercial allocation.

The Nisga'a allocation is both for FSC and Commercial so the comparison is valid.

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milo

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 01:36:29 PM »

Well, then tell Bill Otway that his numbers are wrong.
There are currently around 100.000 FN people in the Fraser Basin. (not just the LML).

If you assign 468 fish a year to each of them, that totals 46.800.000 fish.
That's 46.8 million fish!!!
Not even with the best pink run does the Fraser see nearly that many fish.
Silly proposition!

20 fish per band member as per the Nisga'a Treaty sounds more realistic.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 02:22:39 PM by milo »
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Rodney

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 03:01:14 PM »

Milo, I think you've misunderstood what the SDA is trying to suggest here, which is the same what you are pointing out. The recent harvest agreement with the Tsawwassen Band guarantees a percentage of each year's salmon run which the band to harvest for commercial sale (eg. 468 fish per person this year). The SDA is suggesting and warning that if the same harvest agreement is passed with every band in the Fraser Basin, then we will see the end of the Fraser River salmon stocks and fisheries.

milo

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 03:44:57 PM »

Oh, now I get it.  :-[
Thanks, Rodney!

I wasn't being critical of the SDA - on the contrary.
I just didn't get the percentage part.

Horrible numbers any way you look at it.

Hope it never takes off.
And to whomever came up with the brilliant idea...nah, I better shut up! >:(
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Terry D

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 03:57:21 PM »

I'd just to say I'm not trying to cause arguments, I'm just trying to put forward some hopefully interesting info that the readers may not yet have come across.
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Steelhawk

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 04:13:49 PM »

Milo, I think you've misunderstood what the SDA is trying to suggest here, which is the same what you are pointing out. The recent harvest agreement with the Tsawwassen Band guarantees a percentage of each year's salmon run which the band to harvest for commercial sale (eg. 468 fish per person this year). The SDA is suggesting and warning that if the same harvest agreement is passed with every band in the Fraser Basin, then we will see the end of the Fraser River salmon stocks and fisheries.

Amen. They may as well give FN the trout, bass and for that matter, the carp too, so we can all hang up our rods and go shopping with our ladies.  ;D Time to think about other hobbies.
I wonder if the Americans will do the same down south?  ;D
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Terry D

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Re: Canadian democracy in action!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2008, 10:43:45 AM »

That's the reason I sent off my donation to the SDA.  We need a group like this to fight at govenment level for OUR RIGHTS to fish.
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