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[fishseeker]

I have been getting into a lot more fly fishing this year and I think I have been having more success that last year thanks to small refinements and helpful comments from everyone on this site.  Evertime I go out nowadays I try to think of what I could do better the next time.

Anyway, I get faced with this problem of new lakes a lot because there are enough of them around that I don't know much about.   Last weekend I went out to Whonnock lake because I heard it had been stocked the previous weekend but when I got there I realized that I had no idea where to fish it because there were no obvious structures or dropoffs that I could see from the shore.

First, I had no idea what fly to choose but settled on a doc spratley because it had some nice little hackles and a bit of silver to act as an attractor - there was no signficant logic to my choice I could just as easily have picked a green or olive wooly bugger.  Next, I rowed up against the wind as far as I could go then chucked my fly line out and drifted with the wind as slow as possible and as close as possible to the shore.  I had read the previous post on trolling plus a bunch of articles on it - I have always had limited success with it but I figured it would allow me to cover a lot of water given that I had no idea where the fish were concentrated.

After many snags in the lillys I eventually approached the doc near the parking lot and started fan casting around my rubber boat -  I got a small yellow crappy doing that which was comforing.  I didn't need to feel I was completely skunked.

As the sun started going down I figured I would drift troll the final 200 yards or so back to my car and that was when I saw my rod dip and the thrill of dancing silver on the end.   Now I can at least say from experience that trolling can work - I have always got completely skunked on this before.

I guess my questions are these:

a) Would trolling the middle work just as well?  I figured trolling near the shore should be better because there is likely to be more structure around but floating lillies caused me a lot of grief.
b) Choosing a fly under these circumstances is completely hit and miss - what should drive my choice?
c) I have heard the brightness of the day should influence the depth one fishes.  Saturday last weekend was slightly overcast so I used a floating line with about 8 feet of leader.  If it is bright I have heard it is better to fish closer to the bottom - is this really so? 

All comments very welcome.

[DragonSpeed]

I am far from an expert, but my technique on a new lake is this:

I usually go with a black or red doc sprately.. simple attractor pattern.  While fishing them - look in the water and the air around.  What's in the water - what's in the air?  Do you have a fly coloured or  shaped like that?

Location:  Head from shore until it suddenly dissappears.  If not.. head further up the coastline and do it again.  Takes some searching but you SHOULD find some sort of drop off.  Fish just OFF the drop off parallel to shore.

Hope.

Good luck!

[marmot]

Check for insects in the water, evidence of hatches.  Do your best to locate shoals, have a look for any feeder streams too.  If you see rises, try to figure out if they are feeding under the surface, juuuust under the surface, or on top.  If you can see insects in the water, try to match what it is, and concentrate around shoals, submerged islands or other features that you can make out.  On some lakes its pretty hard but most "good' lakes will have visible shoals and will be fairly shallow in at least SOME parts.  Try to present the fly where you think the fish are feeding, depthwise.  The first fish you catch, pump its stomach to see what its eating, and you'll know what most will come on.  Changing weather is bad...overcast ,as long as it is stable, is great.  Sunny days, rainy days, they can all be great ....it really depends on stability.  Crazy barometer can wreak havoc on it too, IMO.  Some people don't buy it but it kinda goes hand in hand with weather shifts.  If I'm having a hard time getting the first fish i'll throw on a maroon colored microleech and drag it on the dropoffs, usually I'll get at least one like that, then pump it (if i have a pump handy!).

I dunno....I get skunked as much as the next guy....and to be honest, much of what I have learned has been passed on info.....so probably, the best advice?    If you see somebody camping, or fishing, just ask how the fishing has been.  Most guys are happy to gloat and share, except the grumpy ones, in which case, it will be a short conversation and wont take much of your time anyways.   Good luck with it you sound very enthusiastic!

[mastercaster]

I normally spend the first ten minutes or so (even on lakes I fish all the time) just bombing about with my electric motor set on top speed to cover as much water as possible and see if I can locate any fish on the sounder.  I won't anchor up until I find them somewhat in numbers.  If you know your entomology you should have a pretty good idea with what to start with at any given time of year.  For this time of year I always start with chironomids, usually with both rods.  On some of the lakes I fish, the mayflies will start to pop a little after noon time.  They'll hatch at the same time for several days.  If I know the fish are going to key on them I'll start fishing the nymphs an hour or so earlier than when the adults are going to hatch. 

The mays are pretty much over for this year but the sedges are starting to pop in the mountain lakes in the interior but the fish don't usually start to key on them until there's numbers.  When this happens the fish can't help themselves...even the largest fish in the lake can become "stupid" at this time. 

All you need to do is catch one feeding fish, do a throat sample, and that should tell you almost everything you need to know.  I say almost, because sometimes early in the morning the fish will be feeding on different stuff, especially before the insects start to move.  Sometimes it's shrimp, sometimes daphnia, etc.  That's why I usually do a throat sample on the next fish I hook.... if they're not on chronies already.

When it appears that nothing is going to hatch that day I'll stick with leeches which is my "go to" fly or a dragon.  I hate fishing shrimp because of the multitude of different shades and sizes.   It seems evewry lake is vastly different than the next.  I'll likely remained anchored if I'm over fish but if there isn't any "biters"  I'll lift my anchors and row along the drop offs using sink tip or high D lines until I find feeders.  Then back to the anchors.  Hope this helps.  Cheers!

[fishseeker]

Hey thanks all of you!

I realized some of this overlapped with a lot of answers on the trolling post someone put out on this forum recently but these are all ideas that I can be aware of when I run into this situation again.

Unfortunately I have not come even close to being able to "read the water" when it comes to things like recognising a hatch - I can see some of you have a great deal more experience at that than I do.   I did have a stomach pump that day and I would have used it but, sadly, the day was at an end and there was no opportunity to try it.

So far I have started experiencing modest success using standard general patterns like woolly buggers and doc spratleys and I would love to add more techniques to my repetoire.   I would really like to go further with Chironomid techniques but I have not had much opportunity to use them or probably not recognised the conditions when that is the appropriate method.

As for the comment on shrimp patters - interesting.  When I was at Roche Lake in Septermber last year everybody was getting  skunked (especially me).  I could see the water was loaded with these little green shrimps so I tried to match - I had flies that appeared to be the exact size and color:  absolotuley no hits.   It sounds like that pattern is a bit difficult to get right - oh well.  Eventually I managed to get two one on a good old reliable woolly bugger and it's stomach appeared to be loaded with those little shrimps - I never did figure out why the shrimp pattern wasn't working.

[DragonSpeed]

As for the comment on shrimp patters - interesting.  When I was at Roche Lake in Septermber last year everybody was getting  skunked (especially me).  I could see the water was loaded with these little green shrimps so I tried to match - I had flies that appeared to be the exact size and color:  absolotuley no hits.   It sounds like that pattern is a bit difficult to get right - oh well.  Eventually I managed to get two one on a good old reliable woolly bugger and it's stomach appeared to be loaded with those little shrimps - I never did figure out why the shrimp pattern wasn't working.

I think if there is too much food, then your fly just becomes one bit among the hoardes and your fly ends up using the group survival theory that fish often do.  i.e. the chance of YOU getting eaten is smaller if there area bunch of similar targets in close proximity.

Cheers.

[marmot]

Yeah I second what DS just said....if its packed with feed you can do something like go a size up, like if they are feeding on 14's and the lake is packed with feed, put on a 12 and maybe something with a bit of attraction to it.  this goes for all types.  Usually, if its like that , I'll just throw on a leech.  Sometimes too, there may be loads of scuds in the water but the fish simply might not be feeding on them.

As mastercaster says the sedge hatches are coming up....late afternoons to evening you can have some action that will keep you coming back to them for life   Easy to fish too, some of my first days out on the water when i was old enough to go myself were sedge hatches....great memories.  I can still remember some of the takes.  You'll find out why soon enough

[fishseeker]

OK, those are very interesting answers.   I guess there are times when matching the hatch works well and others when it really doesn't - lots to learn!  This is why I find fly fishing so fascinating

I did not know much about Sedges until you brought it up so I did a little research and found some info on this link:

http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/bugs/caddisfly/caddisfly.phtml

This quote jumped out at me: "Indeed, from the last week in June until about mid-July they are often the main food source of the trout."

I have always heard fishing for trout was pretty crappy in July / August on account of hot weather - I figured I would put the trout fishing on hold to focus on course species like Bass, Carp etc.  This time of year is supposed to be better for those and I enjoy going after just about anything anyway.

Unfortunately time and very high gas prices keep me limited to the greater vancouver vicinity these days so I do not have access to those pristine interior lakes.   I live in Burnaby: are there any places within reasonable distance where I could put sedge techniques to practice?  I have tried on Buntzen Lake three times now with zero success - the thing that really sucks about that lake is the gates close quite a bit sooner than the evening so I can't take advantage of prime fishing time.

[newsman]

You don't have to travel that far to experience good fishing.

You made a good choice with Whonnock (one of my favorites), but like any lake it has it's secrets.

So here is my advice:

#1 Read every book on fly fishing in the library.
#2 Watch every video on fly fishing from the library.
#3 Take a fly fishing (Not casting or Tying) class from someone who knows their stuff. I gage ones experience in years of consistent success , like 10 or more (it take a minimum 4 years to earn a trade ticket and a master angler is not made in one successful 3 day weekend).
#4 Invest in a compass fish migrate to the north east in colder waters and south west in warmer waters.
#5 Invest in a thermometer and use it to locate water closest to your chosen fishes comfort zone.
#6 Study all our sport species to determine their peak season and fish accordingly balancing both river, lake, and beach fisheries.

Do all that and you can find good fishing year round all within the lower mainland.

[newsman]

Went to Whonnock tonight to see what I could do. It was tuff. For a one and a half hour effort I brought to hand 4 small bows and three Crappies. It took me about 4 fly changes to dial them in. All in all it was not what it should have been. I would say the lake is in transition too warm for the trout and has not been warm enough long enough to get the crappies really moving. The crappies are still out in the deep water, where they go after the spawn, I would guess the cold spring has them out there longer than usual. A week or three and the close in top water action for crappies should be good.

[fishseeker]

OK thanks Newsman.  I have read a fair bit on the topic and I will certainly be reading more but no matter how much theory I read there is just no substitute for going out and doing it.  It's only through catching a few that I can actually gain any confidence in what I am doing.

Last year was painful because I got skunked probably 80% of the time.  This year I am getting skunked maybe 50% of the time so I feel that I am making some progress.  I believe I am doing better because I pay more attention to the time of day and the season so I can certainly appreciate what you are saying about that.    Every time I go fly fishing for trout I will try to pay attention to small but not doubt important details like water temperature, bugs in the water, compass bearing etc. etc. (I had never heard about compass bearings and fish migration before so thanks for that piece of interesting info).

Maybe this is simple minded but I have pretty well planned it out this way this year:

April through to mid june. : Trout      ( I figure I am pretty well over with that now unless I can figure out the deal with exploiting the Sedge hatches MasterCaster and Marmot told me about).

July through August : Carp & Bass  because I believe they are more active at this time of year and trout are less active when the water is warmer.  ( I may fly fish for bass but I will use whatever technique works best).

September to Mid - October :  Back to trout again

Mid October through November:  Trout and maybe some Salmon fishing because I know Chum are abundant at this time of year and relatively easy to catch for newbies like me.  (To be honest Salmon fishing is least appealing to me.   Too much driving required and too many people doing it.  Not the kind of fishing I like).

November through end of April : I will probably hang up the fishing poles and go back to skiing.  No for me driving out to remote locations hunting steelhead - I am just not that much of a diehard fisherman.

[newsman]

Hey fish I can see you are really trying. That's good, sounds like you have the stuff to make into the top 5% who catch 95% of the fish. I would not rule out winter fishing not where you live anyway. The Inlet has a good population of Sea-run Cutthroat and since you have the fortune of living in Burnaby, you have a wealth of info just out side your door. Bob! Bob of Bob's tackle on Hastings can steer you to some great local beach action. Also come out and talk to Rick and I at Fish For The Future a week from Sat I am sure we can help you see past allot of the elitist BS thrown around in this sport.

Tip for today Make friends with the Black Gnat, Royal Coachman, Zulu, Adams, Baggy Shrimp, Halfback, and Renegade. They catch more fish locally than all others combined.

[newsman]

Well maybe those flies don't of fish exact patterns in the hands of expert, but they do for the novice.

[fishseeker]

Thanks much Newsman, you have been very helpful.  I appreciate all the good advice.

When I next head out to Hastings I will certainly look up Bobs tackle to find out more about the cutthroat opportunities.  So far I have not explicitly targeted those because I have heard they can be here there and everywhere so chancing on them is largely a matter of luck.  They must be a lot of fun to catch.

You mentioned 'the inlet'.  Are you talking about Burrard Inlet?   I have often walked along the sea wall and wondered about that - there are certainly lots of small minnows about but I have never seen any evidence of larger fish preying on them.   To be honest I have never looked closely enough - fly fishing there would attract a lot of interest from passers by [Never seen anybody doing any kind of fishing there either]

As for flies I have had some success with Wooly Buggers and the Halfback.  They seem to be good general patterns that get me in to fish quite a lot - the rest will be down to stomach pumps and doing research on the patterns you just mentioned here.   Thanks a lot.

As for getting into the top 5% that would be nice but  I will be very happy if I can just be consistent so that I only get skunked 10% of the time.  (These days, even the pikeminnows skunk me from time to time )

By the way, I am planning to take my Nephew out to the 'Fish for the Future' event in Steveston so I will keep an eye out for Rick.  Hopefully I will be able to make it out there (My nephew appears to have even more enthusiasm for this than I do).

[Min]

I would be very happy to be skunked only 10% of the time.  But, it is enjoyable trying to get there.

Gordon