Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on March 12, 2010, 11:20:50 AM
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Although Gordo and The Clowns believe their HST program is a Done Deal, this is really not the case.
As most are likely aware, this new tax-grab will affect a great many areas that have been previously tax free (un-tapped resources in Gordo's Twisted point of view). These range from taxing services to re-taxing used vehicle sales and more. The average Family will end up pouring even more of their earnings into the LIEberals coffers to support more foolish and worthless pet projects.
Tired of being amongst the most taxed population in this Country? Not quite willing to freely bend over and let them increase those taxes yet again? Want to send a CLEAR message you have had enough of this BS?
This: http://fighthst.com/ has a very real chance of succeeding! Why not join us on April 6 and send a LOUD message to Gordo as to just who the April Fool may be! ;)
This group still needs a few volunteers. I will be offering my services to promote this exercise, and truly believe that each British Columbian should consider doing the same!
For those that might like the imposition of yet another tax here in BC, I leave you with Rick Mercer's thoughts on the matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLfm6XKtRHI
GET INVOLVED FOLKS! It ain't too late to send the message that we are FED UP! Even if it is a simple as ensuring you sign the petition, please, for all our sakes, do so!
Cheers,
Nog
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I'm sorry but fighting the HST seems to be a poorly thought out idea.... they will just find other ways, they always do, if your even lucky enough to succeed.
They are taking money from BC hydro, ICBC... ever wonder why claims are down some years but you never see a refund, they just keep shaving from the top of the slush fund.
You need to go to the root of the problem.... Spending...IE: 20 billion a year to fight against threats from who? The Taliban....ya, Ok, maybe if they were an actual threat worthy of such monies.... Hitler, on the other hand was an actual threat. But you will find large opposition from government contractors!
How much money did we spend on a silly game called the "Olyimpics", and following are budget cuts, HST, but not to head governments.
There are many other wasteful spending practices going on and that is where people should be focusing their attention.... Or, prepare to buck up!
However I do applaud you for actually trying to do something... I would love for nothing more than to make a move on the government but with so few people willing to give up their time and monies and gather on the same page I do strongly believe they, the government, will always win.... but I still have some hope, albeit quickly fading. :-\ :(
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ahh they just need to tax big businesses instead going after working class folk some barley make ends meat damn liberal government why they got voted in i have no idea should have been NDP i know i voted NDP. Vote NDP send the HST back to Ontario where it belongs its expensive enough to live out here now. That slimball gordon campbell dont like him never will like him he needs to take a long walk off a VERY short peir then we should all sit on the peir and cast lots of barbed treble hooks at him DOWN WITH THE HST I SAY.
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Vote NDP ..... send the HST back to Ontario where it belongs its expensive enough to live out here now.
Isn't that called "Jumping from the frying pan into the fire"?
Don't be deceived into thinking the NDP would do anything different. The BC government needs the HST tax dollars and if it doesn't implement the HST it will get the tax dollars somewhere else .
At least the liberals are attracting businesses to invest in BC. New business investment means jobs and tax dollars. I'm afraid the NDP has the reputation for scaring business investment out of the province.
That being said the liberals are no where near perfect, but be careful what you wish for.....
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Thanks Nog, I will be volunteering to help on gathering petitions starting on the 6th.
I know we all have to pay taxes but I get sick of hearing the present government saying we have the lowest taxes in Canada but they do not tell of all the other ways they have and are raising other taxes that we actually pay in the long run. Then they said before the last election they would not be bringing in the HST but they promptly announced they would after they got another 4 year mandate.
They always criticize how badly the NDP managed the Province's finances in the 1990's but our debt has risen every year since the Liberals have been elected.
Besides they have not in my mind done much to help our salmon, steelhead stocks and the environment the last while but have done the opposite with their expansion of fish farms, run of the river projects etc.
Time for a change to see if another party can do better, at least they can do no worse in my mind.
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the only reason the NDP did not get voted in was because of Carol James. get a new leader and they will get the votes.
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the only reason the NDP did not get voted in was because of Carol James. get a new leader and they will get the votes.
Like pretty boy Gregor Robertson ?
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Then they said before the last election they would not be bringing in the HST but they promptly announced they would after they got another 4 year mandate.
They always criticize how badly the NDP managed the Province's finances in the 1990's but our debt has risen every year since the Liberals have been elected.
Besides they have not in my mind done much to help our salmon, steelhead stocks and the environment the last while but have done the opposite with their expansion of fish farms, run of the river projects etc.
Time for a change to see if another party can do better, at least they can do no worse in my mind.
Agreed Chris, and Many THANKS for lending support in the HST Cause! Enough of us get behind this, we really do have a very good chance of stopping it!
Get on board Folks! 8)
Cheers,
Nog
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This Gordo has to go....
Agree that most do not see Carol James as a leader so they should put Moore to head the NDP. HE'S A GOOD SPEAKER ...LOOKS PEOPLE IN THE EYES...& NOT MEDIA SHY plus he's got something between the ears !!!
Thus as it is Gordo keeps his power & gets re-elected.
Sometimes I think the world is going thru so much "CRAP" (so much scandals/crime/deceptions in bussiness plus lies & more lies by our elected politians) people just shake their heads....& just don't care anymore.
When Gordo was in opposition he called the elect of the day..."pigs at the trough"...but since he's been in power...ya guessed it...he's given himself alot of increases $$$ wise.
Then he brought in Bill 19 (I think it was called) where 1000's lost their jobs !!! Only to have it challenged by the highest court of the land. Results were that what Gordo did was WRONG !!!
Then he said he would not sell the BC Rail.....well the CNR now is the new owner.
He is behind our increases in fuel tax...& we BC residents pay SUPER BIG INCREASED COSTS in our electricty & natural gas....
He said HST will not be brought in...well (honesty he is going to bring out a fart tax as it increases the green house problem) Gordo is a bone head. Yes lets not accept this crappy new tax. :o This fart tax is coming one day ...just watch!!! Unless we get rid of Mr LONG NOSE.
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The HST is coming in ..... like it or not! The government needs more tax dollars! The alternative is cutting services. Watch the protests if that was proposed. I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???
Eventually every province will have it because it makes more sense than having 2 taxes! I believe the BC government is supposed to get a 1.5 billion one time payment from the Feds when it implements the HST. Now that is an incentive that will be impossible for the BC government to turn down.
I would much rather have a transparent tax like the HST than more hidden taxes that most people aren't aware of (like the gas taxes). If I was to protest the HST, I would be lobbying to exempt some products and services like used cars sold privately for example or professional services. In both of these cases we'll now be paying both GST and PST.
As far as the NDP coming back in...... sorry I'm still having Glenn Clark nightmares! ???
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...I believe the BC government is supposed to get a 1.5 billion one time payment from the Feds when it implements the HST. Now that is an incentive that will be impossible for the BC government to turn down.
OR...
Twist to their advantage regardless of the cost? ???
Why March 24 Will Define BC's Fiscal Managers
That's when the Campbell government might defy its own contract with Ottawa, costing BC taxpayers millions.
By Will McMartin, 8 Mar 2010, TheTyee.ca
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The nub of the issue is this:
The Campbell government merely needs to carry through on a single, simple clause in a contract it has signed with the federal government in order to trigger an extra half billion dollars in payments from the feds to hard-hit provincial coffers this year.
But so far it seems the Campbell government does not intend to follow through. And if it doesn't, the premier and his finance minister can expect some hard questions directed their way come March 25. Questions like:
Why are the taxpayers now being made to pay interest on hundreds of millions of dollars in debt that could have been avoided?
Is it because we are being forced to pick up the bill for the B.C. Liberal party's political strategy to win in 2014?
Assuming I have your interest, then, what follows is the explanation for why March 24 is such an important date for the B.C. taxpayer -- and possibly for the political future of the B.C. Liberals.
A contract in black and white
At issue on March 24 is the tabling of a bill to repeal B.C.'s social service (sales) tax. This legislation would make way for the new federal-provincial Harmonized Sales Tax (HST), which comes into effect in less than four months on July 1.
Negotiated last summer, the deal between Ottawa and Victoria requires the federal government to pay B.C. $1.599 billion in "transitional assistance." A schedule of the timing of those federal payments was included in the contract signed by both parties. [see pp. 45 and 46 at this link.]
According to the contract, Ottawa must give B.C. the first $750 million installment of those transition monies "within seven days of the tabling by the province of legislation to wind-down the Provincial Sales Tax (PST) of the province."
The second payment of $374 million is due "on the first business day following the implementation date," and the final $475 million installment will be paid exactly one year later.
In effect, British Columbia should get $750 million this spring, within a week of moving to repeal the provincial sales tax, $374 million on July 2, and $475 million on the same date in the next calendar year.
Pretty clear, right? If Victoria moves expeditiously to repeal the provincial sales tax by bringing in legislation before March 24 (which is seven days before the end of the fiscal period), B.C. will get a $750 million payment in the current fiscal year just ending (2009/10). This payment will be followed by transfers of $374 million and $475 million (in 2010/11 and 2011/12, respectively).
A mysterious intent to delay
However, as was reported in The Tyee last Tuesday by both Andrew MacLeod and this writer, the Campbell Liberals want to delay acceptance of those federal monies. This delay is wanted even though the provincial government expects a $2.8 billion deficit in the current fiscal year (which ends on March 31), and sees a $1.7 billion shortfall in the next fiscal period.
According to last Tuesday's budget and fiscal plan [see p. 12 at this link], B.C. wants to record just $250 million in federal transition monies this year (down from the contracted $750 million), and then $769 million and $580 million over the next two years.
The apparent reason the Campbell Liberals want to postpone those federal monies is that, as was outlined last summer on The Tyee, they want to deliberately create a massive post-election deficit -- a deficit which will gradually be whittled down to a balanced or surplus budget in advance of the next general election, which is scheduled for 2013.
The Campbell Liberals, therefore, believe that the federal HST monies are not required now, less than a year after the last general election. They are required later, closer to the next electoral contest. It's a political calculation, not a fiscal decision, that is motivating Victoria to seek to delay Ottawa's transition funding.
There is much more, including the ramifications of this slick little twist: http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/03/08/McMartinBCBudget/index.html
I would much rather have a transparent tax like the HST than more hidden taxes that most people aren't aware of (like the gas taxes).
You mean "on top of"... ???
If I was to protest the HST, I would be lobbying to exempt some products and services like used cars sold privately for example or professional services. In both of these cases we'll now be paying both GST and PST.
And therein lies the Crunch. A LOT more Businesses and of course People than Gordo et al suggest will be negatively effected once they begin paying taxes on the great many items/services previously exempt from one or the other. Bad News Scenario when attempting (or at least supposedly) to draw a dwindling economy back to life.
As far as the NDP coming back in...... sorry I'm still having Glenn Clark nightmares! ???
He ain't there any more. IMHO Gordo has been, and continues to be Worse. Really. ;)
Cheers,
Nog
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I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???
You missed a question.......... ;D
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Nog's info on a "balancing scale" & now alwaysfishn's info on this debate on the other side ...ok let's see let's see... ok ok ok ...
Nog's side is going down so he wins the debate !!!!
alwaysfishn when gov's need their billions to spend on this & that skytrain hospitals roads schools etc... and they are taxing the people...and they know they will be need $$$ to keep everything going...why then do they take on the Olympics with 1 billion spent just for security !!! Let alone all the other things...
Now it's time after the party to pay up...
What I'm saying is when ya got politians who give themselves big yearly pay cheques then set themselves up with the greatest pensions...& who knows after they retire they sit on some "board" or are a so called "consultant" by some big friendly companies......sorry but politians who have caught lying over & over are like rust on a car...don't trust the guy as far as I can spit. When they spend our tax money like candy out of a machine...when they should be budgeting...sure meet the demands of the needs but do so wisely & don't spend BILLIONS on the parties (winter games) when we do not have oil wells pumping out of the ground.. or major gold mines. Take it easy Gordo how ya spend & take it easy how ya are going for increase this now let's increase that ...oh it's been 2 mos now...we need another increase ...the guy's out of control.....
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What I'm saying is when ya got politians who give themselves big yearly pay cheques then set themselves up with the greatest pensions...& who knows after they retire they sit on some "board" or are a so called "consultant" by some big friendly companies......sorry but politians who have caught lying over & over are like rust on a car...don't trust the guy as far as I can spit. When they spend our tax money like candy out of a machine...when they should be budgeting...sure meet the demands of the needs but do so wisely & don't spend BILLIONS on the parties (winter games) when we do not have oil wells pumping out of the ground.. or major gold mines. Take it easy Gordo how ya spend & take it easy how ya are going for increase this now let's increase that ...oh it's been 2 mos now...we need another increase ...the guy's out of control.....
Easy to criticize Campbell for this and that...remember when the MLA's voted themselves a hefty pay raise ? The NDP supported the pay increase til the public outcry forced them to abandon it.
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I don't understand where people think the government gets money to spend on the stuff everybody wants???
Actually didn't miss it always. Kinda figured you'd get back on that point. And since it is it's own whole can of worms, it is likely worthy of a stand-alone response...
"Everybody Wants". Hmmmm... Let's just have a little boo at that shall we...
The Winter Olympics, while they did instill a sense of National Pride, they were in fact a very serious blow to the financial picture in this Province. We all witnessed the cuts to such Mother & Apple Pie services as Health, Education and more to put this not-so-little party for the Rich & Famous together. Those made headlines, many other related cuts (or stripping of budgets to finance "the party") were intentionally buried. With Gordo's direct oversight, no-one actually knows what the bottom line for this fiasco is, and if he has his way, no-one ever will realize the depth of the related debt. You can rest assured however that we (you, I and every other taxpaying citizen of BC) WILL be paying for them for a considerably long period of time.
The LIEberals would have you believe the latest budget "builds on momentum from hosting the Olympics". Momentum? Non-existent in forward momentum except in the fairy-tale fantasy world of the present Dictator. In fact, if there is any "momentum" at all, it is directly related to increasing the overall Provincial debt, increasing the interest rates on an ever-growing deficit, and driving the provincial economy even deeper into the abyss. Not something most would be in favor of continuing to "build on" methinks.
Several polls well indicated that were the Olympic fiasco to be put to a public vote prior to their occurrence, the majority of those in the Province located outside of the LML would have been in opposition. Appears that this is one example of "everyone wants"? Not likely.
Are there more examples of what "everyone wants"? Why certainly...
- Phasing-out the Corporation Capital Tax which generated $100 million-plus annually for Victoria over most of the last decade and was applied mainly to the country's big banks. The Banks are certainly Happy, but the tax-payer picks up the tab. Everyone Wants?
- At the same time the above noted tax on the banks etc was being eliminated, Carole Taylor, Hansen's predecessor at the finance department introduced a new levy called the Financial Institutions Minimum Tax. This was designed to ensure that Canada's banks, insurance companies and trusts, all headquartered outside B.C. -- and very, very profitable -- nonetheless would continue to pay some monies (albeit much-reduced than formerly) directly into the provincial treasury.
Hansen and his government colleagues instead opted to repeal the minimum financial institutions tax -- even before it takes effect! So, two years after deciding to forgo most of the $100 million-plus generated annually for the province by the corporation capital tax -- instead accepting a one-time payment $48 million -- the Campbell Liberals now have resolved to let Canada's big banks keep the entire amount and pay nothing to Victoria. Again, the Banks are Happy. Is this another example of what the taxpayer on the hook for this shortfall "wants"?
- The "shell game" of deferring federal funding transfers related to the HST (see my last post above) results in an additional accumulation 75 million PLUS in interest charges that will be borne by the tax base. Somewhat effective ploy for the LIEberals - as the deferred funding will now show up just in time to help "balance" the budget prior to the next election, allowing Gordo to LIE once again and claim that the "balance" is somehow due to he and his team's efforts. An overt attempt to sway their own political aspirations, at the direct cost to the taxpaying public. I'm sure the LIEberal's very much like this idea. What about "everyone" else?
At a time when spending "restraint" and a VERY scrutinizing eye should be focusing on PRIORITIZATION of that spending should be the overwhelming focus of the day, Gordo and The Clowns continue to spend tax dollars as if there was an endless supply. The largest beneficiaries are of course Big Business and the personal friends of those in power. Amongst the "priorities" the gov "promised" to attend to, and which have subsequently fallen off the table as the stars got realigned in favor of the LIEberals and their increasingly well-off cronies, are:
- Jobless rate has increased rather than decreased. Appears all the lip-service given to this issue was indeed little more than LIES directed to ensure they got elected the last time around. This trend is noted in the current budget to continue well into 2013 and beyond.
- Child Poverty is the HIGHEST in Canada. Another set of LIES. Beyond more lip-service, little if anything is being done by Gordo et al to address this pressing situation.
- At the time when most rural Communities are struggling, there's no plan for rural economic development. In fact the resource ministries that are supposed to oversee and responsibly develop opportunities in the sectors (sectors that drive the majority of rural communities btw) have had their budgets slashed to the tune of 320 million plus. Guess that's OK if you reside in the Big Smoke and snuggle up closely with the Fools On The Hill. As for the rest (most) of the province: Everyone Wants?
- The Housing and Social Development ministry's budget showed a decrease in spending on housing and employment programs, despite an increase in the amounts spent on disability and income assistance. The Crown agency B.C. Housing, however, has seen its budget go up to $900 million from $627 million last year, with a provincial contribution four times what it was a few years ago.
- Despite "maintaining" funding for Health and Education, Professionals in both fields have been very critical of the new budget:
Rachel Tutte, co-chair of the B.C. Health Coalition: "It looks like further cuts to our health care system."
Health Sciences Association of B.C. president Reid Johnson: "It's a no-news budget and that's not good news for British Columbians in terms of health care"
Cindy Oliver president of the Federation of Post-secondary Educators of B.C.: "Spending was flat. I was really disappointed"
Of course "topping" these portfolios up a little makes political sense, they are amongst the utmost importance to the public after all. Might have made even more sense had those same ministries not been stripped of funding previously to pay for a handful of worthless "pet projects".
And the list goes on...
Who can forget:
- Privitization of BC rail - LIE
- Privitization of BC Ferries - LIE
And of course on the environmental front:
- ROR projects EXEMPT from Environmental Impact Studies. Destruction of huge habitat components that cannot help but push the fisheries resources even further towards the edge, while at the same time handing control of our Provinces rivers over to Foreign interests in perpetuity.
- Gravel extraction from proven fish spawning / rearing habitat.
- Promoting Fish Farms Hell Bent for Leather and DAMN any potential consequences.
- Slashing MOE's budgets to the point they are barely even a presence.
And on and on and on and...
Methinks you'll get the picture. A little digging and you'll discover a WHOLE lot more...
Easy to criticize Campbell for this and that...remember when the MLA's voted themselves a hefty pay raise ? The NDP supported the pay increase til the public outcry forced them to abandon it.
Ah, but WHO brought it in? Gordo not only runs a sharp whip over his underlings' backs to keep them in line, but also tosses them an economic bone to help insure their continued alliance. Gotta look after your Flock you see... ::)
So, as pretty well anyone with eyes that are open can see, it isn't so much a case of "Everyone Wants", but rather "Everyone Left Wanting" under Gordo's reign.
Their complete lack of fiscal responsibility and the subsequent fall-out is VERY much of their own making. In their minds it is a simple matter to address, figure out just how to increase taxes once again. As in "Suck It Up" Joe Public, and cough for their indiscretionary spending.
Well, I say ENOUGH! And I am by no means alone in this mindset. I am hoping there are enough of us that do have our eyes open and are fed up with blindly following along regardless of the related personal and overall costs to our Society and Environment. Time to STOP being Sheeple Folks, and let them know their actions are by no means what "Everyone Wants".
Cheers,
Nog
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Once again so well put.
Nog your words are wise & spoken from the heart.
(You speak true words not like Gordo with his FORK TONGUE)
Had a person who visited us a few times but this lady had a very very bad lying habit. When she'd talk 50% of what she said was a pack of lies !!! She say things like "I was in California last week" We caught her as the day before she had a dif. story what she did the wk. before .
That's the trouble with liars as they have to lie to cover their lies...& they lie so much they forget what story they told whatever to...
I basically told the lady ...what is the value of being friends as you make an *** out of us & yourself.
Really just do not have the time to be close friends with a person who lies so much. Waste of time.
But a leader of a province says "I will not do this & that or says I will not sell that & that etc..." Then turns around & does it !!!!
I can understand if he calls the media to cover his special flip flop & the reasons why.... & explain himself. But no he just goes on his merry way..... Plus as mentioned he wanted to be in the world limelight with this Olympics but didn't give a hoot about ALL THE INCREASED TAXATION to us taxpayers.... Spend & put the bill on the tab.....ok folks we need your EXTRA MONEY ...Pay Up In The Name Of The Gov. Of BC. Period.
No wonder many are turning to crime...as their normal job after taxation they would be in the lower middle class.....or worse.
Yes many who turn to crime or lie about this or that or who pay under the table etc... are because of the result of Gordo & co way of doing things . Draining the average joe blows income via his increases...
I've seen many a family who rents a 2 bedrm apt...2-3 kids...& the man working 2 full time jobs...(both low paying) just to get by.
Are there any honest political people anymore?????????
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Hey Nog,
I can tell you are passionate about what you believe! Well written.
Unfortunately I still have the nightmares when I remember what the NDP did when they governed here in BC. I lived in Ontario when the NDP under Bob Rae ruled the roost there as well. It was the same story,they drove out business by taxing them heavily and made it easier for Unions to also drive out the very businesses that created the jobs and the wealth.
While I don't agree with everything "Gordo" is doing, I fear the alternative....
Let's agree to disagree on this one. :)
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Well I can hold my head high knowing I did not vote to re-elect the liberals, the of the sheep in this province will just accept what the govt says and not be able to thnk for themselves. If there is less money, I have an idea, cut services, reduce overhead, work within your means. Thats where we come into play, if we dont have the money...we dont have the money, I will for one be out in Apr. What I am waiting for a is a govt that does whats best for us and the province, a little more nationalistic, and not selling the provinces assets for short term gain. I dont want to see big business interest take precident over us, nor am I interested in big labour sucking us dry either (I work for a living)
I for one will be signing this petition
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So where is it that this HST money is going to go that you're so upset about it?
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Not so much as where the $$$$ is going but the fact that it's a tax on top of another tax.
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How is it a tax on top of another tax?
There will be no more 7% PST
There will be no more 5% GST.
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How is it a tax on top of another tax?
There will be no more 7% PST
There will be no more 5% GST.
The HST will be applied to certain items that were tax exempt. Example school supplies, dinners
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That's not a tax on a tax. That's tax on additional stuff.
In fairness though, the taxes along the way from factory to consumer will be eliminated. That will make the price from factory through to retailer lower. If our free enterprise system responds, and it usually does, the retailers who want to gain business will lower their prices to attract us to THEIR stores. In effect the "retail prices should be lower before the combined PST&GST is added.
I'm not a proponent of the new tax but willing to learn what all the commotion is about changing and streamlining the process.
Back to my question "Where is the money going" that people are upset about this?
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Back to my question "Where is the money going" that people are upset about this?
It is going to help pay to keep the deficit from being more than it would be without it and to pay interest on the Provincial debt. In the long run it along with the 1.6 billion from the Federal Government over 3 years just will go into general revenue to make up for the lower income taxes the present government kept boasting about.
Most likely we have and will be paying more now even with our reduced income taxes with the HST and charges the government has announced after the election. The latest I heard today was additional camping fees. With all the government staffing cutbacks of late we will have less services for more money.
I know we have to pay for all the services including health care that we want to have but what upsets people is the government was not up front before the election about the HST as they said anything they could to mislead the voter just to get elected.
One final remark, we have all enjoyed the Olympics and Paralympics but the cost may have been too high in the long run as we will pay higher taxes and face cutbacks in services because of it. I guess that is hindsight now but we all will be paying hundreds of dollars in extra charges to help pay for it for a few years.
I guess it is up to each individual if they mind paying for the 3 week party.
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Thanks Chris - clear mind and level head as always.
So, the root of the uprising here is that some voters believe that at least some Liberals avoided the truth in order to get re-elected. If so, then lets not copy that. Lets not rally under a cause named HST when if fact we're P.O.'d about the real HST agenda being hidden from us. Let's rally around a banner of honesty.
Thinking through the actual cash flow issues related to HST - the money is not going into Gordo's bank account. The money is not going to be accumulating is some government valut in Victoria. It's going to be paid right out to people working in BC who are providing: health, and safety, and education, and recreation services to us. They in turn will likely spend that money in their local economies and keep the wheels turning in our province.
Our tax money does not get buried in a hole someplace nor shot out into space to be lost forever. It keeps circulating. (and considering we have a deficit, it's circulating out faster than it's coming in)
I think that each of us is expecting more from our society today that it can afford to give us. We each have our special interest, but can we afford ALL these things?
* Do we really NEED planted gardens with automated sprinkler systems in the middle of our roads? "We" somehow managed without those for several thousand years.
* Do schools really NEED nice cork bulletin boards in our schools that are then covered with coloured paper, then again trimmed with yet another layer of coloured boarder to display our children's artwork? Many generations before did without those and actually learned how to spell, do math, and write a coherent sentence.
I could go on, but methinks ya gots da point.
RR
(p.s. I notice that the spell checker on this BB doesn't recognise the Canadian spelling of coloured with a "u")
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They always criticize how badly the NDP managed the Province's finances in the 1990's but our debt has risen every year since the Liberals have been elected.
Besides they have not in my mind done much to help our salmon, steelhead stocks and the environment the last while but have done the opposite with their expansion of fish farms, run of the river projects etc.
Time for a change to see if another party can do better, at least they can do no worse in my mind.
QFT
Quoted
For
Truth
Thanks Chris
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Here is a list of what we could be paying the HST on unless it is stopped
http://www.fighthst.com/wp-content/uploads/HST-List.pdf
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Thanks for the research Chris, I haven't seen a list like that before.
The tax guys definitely need to revise their "taxable" list
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Yes you can see that it is going to cost many of us a good sum of money when you put 12 % on things we will purchase that are on this list. I saw Campbell on Shaw this evening and he said how excited business is about this and how it is going to help get us out of debt by bringing more companies to invest in British Columbia. He said it will make us more competitive somehow in the world economy.
I have not figured all this reasoning out yet. Of course I am just a middle class guy that will be the one doing most the paying along with Joe public.
PS I guess Rodney will now have to collect HST on subscriptions too. Better sign up before July 1. ;D ;D ;D
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Yes you can see that it is going to cost many of us a good sum of money when you put 12 % on things we will purchase that are on this list.
Chris, the list itself says that the items will be subject to 7% extra tax, but now you have now stated that everything will cost 12% more........
Now I've been around long enough that I know if I read something on the internet it must be true..... ;D
....... but aren't we stretching the truth just a bit?
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After that well written post, Nog for MLA ! (for the next NDP government). You sure are more informed then most elected politicians. How about in charge of MOE if you ever get there, so we will have more steelhead stocking? ;D
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The tax guys definately need to revise their "taxable" list
AIN'T going to happen Morty. Once they see the possibility of additional income, it is VERY much like a shark smelling blood.
They have LIED to us over and over and over repeatedly. Now I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I DO recognize when I'm getting screwed over. IMHO if in light of all that has happened you still support the LIEberals and their damned tax grab, you have either been brainwashed, or for some reason like "bending over".
We have to send a message to this Fool On The Hill that his BS will no longer be meekly accepted. Simple matter, sign the petition...
Cheers,
Nog
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A Buddy's Take:
"Most economists see some benefit in the HST. They like the fact that it will streamline tax administration. But few if any believe it will generate any economic growth. And there is no doubt it will cost all of us a lot more money by increasing the tax on major items, like real property and food. And I seriously doubt that you or I will feel any benefit from streamlining tax administration.
But the economists may not be the best authority on this. The biggest issue is that this tax was introduced to the BC public days after an election. But it was never mentioned or debated during that election. It is being foisted on the BC tax payer without any democratic mandate whatsoever. Thus, fighting this damned tax is about more than fighting against the tax, it is about fighting for democracy in BC.
Regardless of whether you support the BC Libs, the NDP, another party, or no party at all, the HST is symptomatic of cynical politics at its worst. If you don't like the direction politics is headed in BC, and who does, then this is the best chance you will ever have to stand up for yourself and fight back. And for once, the odds of winning are high. All you have to do is sign your name."
aYup!
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Bill Vanderzalm and the anti HSTcampaign is coming to Chilliwack on Wednesday where I will be signing up to gather signatures.
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If I was convinced that the HST was so awful I'd volunteer to help Bill Vanderzalm carry his "Stop the HST " banners as well.
However, I can't see a lot of problems with the HST other than the fact that a few items we buy will now carry some additional tax. I like user pay taxes like the PST, GST and HST because they are right there in your face and if I choose to buy the item that is being taxed I will calculate it in as part of the price.... or choose not to buy the item!
These are taxes that the rich will pay more of than the poor.... because they have more money to buy the stuff that is taxed! The lowest income group will be receiving additional HST credits.That is a fair tax.
The fact that the HST was a surprise announcement well folks that's life. The suggestion that the Liberals lied to us.... have you seen a politician that hasn't lied? That's not a good thing but it's reality. We can judge them with our vote in the next election. If a government needs tax dollars it is going to introduce what ever tax it needs to so it can try and balance it's budget. What I want to see is a government that puts tax policies in place that encourage economic growth, create jobs, simplify tax policies and tax those who can most afford it. The HST does all of these things.
The HST is a replacement tax for the existing PST and GST taxes. While it will likely cost all of us more, it will help small businesses because it simplifies their tracking (they only need to collect one tax). It also benefits these businesses because they can claim back the taxes that they paid to buy the products so they can then resell them. In a competitive market many products will cost less than they do now. The simpler a tax is the more transparent it is.
I'm afraid I'll need more convincing proof (besides the fact that the liberals "lied" to us) to convince me to sign Bill Vanderzalm's/the NDP's petition. ;D
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If I was convinced that the HST was so awful I'd volunteer to help Bill Vanderzalm carry his "Stop the HST " banners as well.
However, I can't see a lot of problems with the HST other than the fact that a few items we buy will now carry some additional tax. I like user pay taxes like the PST, GST and HST because they are right there in your face and if I choose to buy the item that is being taxed I will calculate it in as part of the price.... or choose not to buy the item!
These are taxes that the rich will pay more of than the poor.... because they have more money to buy the stuff that is taxed! The lowest income group will be receiving additional HST credits.That is a fair tax.
The fact that the HST was a surprise announcement well folks that's life. The suggestion that the Liberals lied to us.... have you seen a politician that hasn't lied? That's not a good thing but it's reality. We can judge them with our vote in the next election. If a government needs tax dollars it is going to introduce what ever tax it needs to so it can try and balance it's budget. What I want to see is a government that puts tax policies in place that encourage economic growth, create jobs, simplify tax policies and tax those who can most afford it. The HST does all of these things.
The HST is a replacement tax for the existing PST and GST taxes. While it will likely cost all of us more, it will help small businesses because it simplifies their tracking (they only need to collect one tax). It also benefits these businesses because they can claim back the taxes that they paid to buy the products so they can then resell them. In a competitive market many products will cost less than they do now. The simpler a tax is the more transparent it is.
I'm afraid I'll need more convincing proof (besides the fact that the liberals "lied" to us) to convince me to sign Bill Vanderzalm's/the NDP's petition. ;D
What really stinks, besides the outright lies and deceit, is the elected are NOT representing the people that put them there. Democracy represents the electorate and with 85% AGAINST the HST, this is a slap in the face to those of us who want a government that represents the wishes of the people. As far as "helping" small business - BALOGNA - I own a small business and there is no help to it to me. I have no chance of raising my prices to keep pace with increased costs. And if you and others are OK with liars and have no desire to hold their feet to the fire , than democracy is dead , having given way to dictators. Personally, I'm hoping this is enough to wake people up to the giveaways like BC Rail ,no cost to CN as they used tax credits to cover the purchase, the IPP's that will make your hydro rates soar (look at the ex Liberal butt sniffers that relocated there, sorta like flies to poop) , banks getting hundreds of millions in tax breaks, gas and oil getting 120 million in tax breaks,(these 2 are really galling as they have billions in profit) and on and on.
WAKE UP! The tax revenue lost is being foisted on the working stiff and small business so Campbell can give great chunks of the province to his supporters. And just look how well those that donate to the pack of thieves do.
"The suggestion that the Liberals lied to us" - That's not a suggestion- it's a FACT.
And:
"The suggestion that the Liberals lied to us.... have you seen a politician that hasn't lied? That's not a good thing but it's reality."
Then it's time to stand up and demand accountability, not stand around like a bunch of sheeple and accept it. I won't accept it from my kids, but we should accept and expect it from political hacks? Balogna again.
Time for a tea party...
Democracy for sale!
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I own a small business and there is no help to it to me. I have no chance of raising my prices to keep pace with increased costs. And if you and others are OK with liars and have no desire to hold their feet to the fire , than democracy is dead , having given way to dictators. Personally, I'm hoping this is enough to wake people up to the giveaways
And this is the problem! You and probably most of the anti HST'ers are upset with Campbell for one reason or another and you are using the new HST to vent. No problem with being upset with Campbell but why use the HST campaign?
The whole anti HST campaign loses credibility when it's real motive is to complain about Campbell. There are many more positives than negatives about the HST. 7 out of 10 provinces are incorporating it! Only Manitoba, Saskatchewan and PEI are currently holding out. Manitoba is probably the next province to incorporate HST and they have an NDP government.
The help for small business has been simplification of their tax collecting duties. Now they only need to collect one tax not 2 taxes. I've owned a business in Ontario and that is huge!!! The HST will benefit the consumer over the long run because many products we buy and pay PST and GST on have PST incorporated in the price. This is because our current system doesn't allow the business to claim back the PST it pays before it sells a product to you or I. In a competitive market that will knock between 3-5% off many products. Although all taxes suck, simpler is better when it comes to taxes.
Save your Campbell frustrations for the next election and express them there.... where they can actually make a difference! ???
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Again - When we accept outright bologna and manipulation by PROVEN LIARS and just lie down like sheep, there is no hope that these LIARS will ever change their ways. Whatever the citizens can do to wake these arrogant idiots out of the stupor is effort well spent.This entire group of trolls and zombies is NOT accountable to the electorate, but to the party donors. I'm pretty sure Campbell will be set adrift before the next election in any case as the political baggage is getting very heavy and his "porters" are at the point of having had enough.
Why do you think these actions are acceptable?
There is a recall initiative on the books. Maybe it won't gain traction, maybe it will, but I don't believe in going to a lake and not trying to catch a fish.
I'm reminded of the plan to privatize the Coq. Enough uproar and it went away. Time to make noise, not go have a multi year nap.
BTW- How many types of business had to collect just GST? I run a service business that has its customers get whacked with an increase. There is no benefit to many small service business owners, but just another anchor.
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This entire group of trolls and zombies is NOT accountable to the electorate, but to the party donors.
Thank goodness the NDP does not stoop to these standards. Fast ferries was for the good of the electorate and no benefit whatsoever to the NDP's union donors. We obviously have something to look forward to......... or very short memories! ;D
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And this is the problem! You and probably most of the anti HST'ers are upset with Campbell for one reason or another and you are using the new HST to vent. No problem with being upset with Campbell but why use the HST campaign?
The whole anti HST campaign loses credibility when it's real motive is to complain about Campbell. There are many more positives than negatives about the HST. 7 out of 10 provinces are incorporating it! Only Manitoba, Saskatchewan and PEI are currently holding out. Manitoba is probably the next province to incorporate HST and they have an NDP government.
The help for small business has been simplification of their tax collecting duties. Now they only need to collect one tax not 2 taxes. I've owned a business in Ontario and that is huge!!! The HST will benefit the consumer over the long run because many products we buy and pay PST and GST on have PST incorporated in the price. This is because our current system doesn't allow the business to claim back the PST it pays before it sells a product to you or I. In a competitive market that will knock between 3-5% off many products. Although all taxes suck, simpler is better when it comes to taxes.
Save your Campbell frustrations for the next election and express them there.... where they can actually make a difference! ???
I own a small business and only have to collect the gst like alot of others. How the hell is this going to help me other than cost me and my customers more? Your only thinking of one part of the equation just like a lib. And your fast ferry comment. Live in the past much? Nothing compared to whats happening today.
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as a small business owner and a farmer. I actually like the idea of the HST. On one hand I have to pay more for certain things that were not taxed before, but that is more than being offset by the ability to claim back not only the GST, but the PST as well.
I figured it out and I actualy come out ahead in the deal, signifcantly better that before.
So with more money in my pocket i will be able to hire an extra helper to reduce my work load(more fishing) and increase productivity. I'm jsut a small operation, if the same effect applies to other businesses it may actaully work out quite well.
I cant stand any of the current politicians but the NDP are by far the worst thing that ever happens to BC past and present. Its very intersting that during the olympics there was no sign of Carole James or NDP, not even giving the courtesy of congratualting all the athletes and the hard working volunteers that made the games such a success. I for one am absolutely disguted by their dis-respectful attitude.
So i wont be signing any petition.
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I figured it out and I actualy come out ahead in the deal, signifcantly better that before. So with more money in my pocket i will be able to hire an extra helper to reduce my work load(more fishing) and increase productivity.
I rest my case!
Anything that allows you to do more fishing has to be an excellent thing!!! ;D ;D
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as a small business owner and a farmer. I actually like the idea of the HST. On one hand I have to pay more for certain things that were not taxed before, but that is more than being offset by the ability to claim back not only the GST, but the PST as well.
I figured it out and I actualy come out ahead in the deal, signifcantly better that before.
So with more money in my pocket i will be able to hire an extra helper to reduce my work load(more fishing) and increase productivity. I'm jsut a small operation, if the same effect applies to other businesses it may actaully work out quite well.
I cant stand any of the current politicians but the NDP are by far the worst thing that ever happens to BC past and present. Its very intersting that during the olympics there was no sign of Carole James or NDP, not even giving the courtesy of congratualting all the athletes and the hard working volunteers that made the games such a success. I for one am absolutely disguted by their dis-respectful attitude.
So i wont be signing any petition.
Glad it is going to be a benefit for you and your business and you will now be able to get more fishing time in. However someone has to make up for the short fall in revenues and in many cases it is the ordinary taxpayer that has to do it. Also we have no means to claim it back. I certainly do not mind paying my share but we have this pending HST because of mis management of our present Liberal government that has seen our deficit balloon the last few years. Of course they always blame it on the down turn in the world's economics and never take any of the blame themselves.
Of course the good part is because they have misled the public so badly on this and many other issues they will be turfed in the next election. ;D ;D
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Just saw on the news that a house buyer will be paying an extra 7 % on a house on July 1. $400,000 dwelling will mean an extra $2,800 in tax than it is now. ::)
No wonder the government likes this.
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Of course they always blame it on the down turn in the world's economics and never take any of the blame themselves.
Has any government ever accepted blame for financial mismanagement whether they be the Liberals, NDP, Socreds etc ? They all play the blame game.
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ANYONE who thinks goods may decrease in cost is absolutely delusional ! More paper work for us who are self employed contractors for example.
Just what I want. It's nothing more than a TAX GRAB >:(
ANYONE who thinks Gordito and his Banditos are doing it for the good of the consumer is off their rocker LOL...
Those who think the HST is a good thing probably think IPP's /ROR projects are a good thing. After all Gordo said so . LMAO
Libs get real, wake up and smell the coffee. ;)
Bluesteele
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Well one point two billion dollars sure sounds like a lot of money, I mean really that's the same amount as we got when we leased out BC rail, look at all the help that's been to the schools and hospitals in BC, seriously look at how the 600 promised jobs to the Prince George area CN has created that came with the leasing of BC rail has helped the interior. Hmmmmmmm more broken promises or flat out lies. Since Gordon and the Liberals have been in power their fiscal responsibility policies have taken the provincial dept from 34 billion to almost 70 billion now, that 1.2 bil won't even cover the interest on that. Our unemployment rate has never been as low as it was in 2001 under the former government, anyone that thinks we're better off now just because the liberals tell them we are better look at the numbers. Naturally if we away the province there will be all kinds of big companies show up to take it off our hands but they have to be made to pay some of the bills while they're here the HST is just downloading more of the expenses of running the province from the rich to the working class and damn near everyone I talk to that is on this forum are working class people.
I hope this HST thing serves to topple the Liberals out of power but by the time the next election roles around BC will be close to 100 billion in dept the way things are going and no future government will ever be able to bring back the standard of living we once had with that kind of dept load, like I said earlier the HST won't even pay the interest on the money the liberals have borrowed since they've been in power, they keep making cor perate tax cuts, so it's just the working people that the burden falls on.
Gordon give us a break, do the best thing for the people of BC fall on your sword, resign, retire to Norway where your money"s coming from, just get out of Victoria your government and it's policies have failed.
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Just saw on the news that a house buyer will be paying an extra 7 % on a house on July 1. $400,000 dwelling will mean an extra $2,800 in tax than it is now. ::)
No wonder the government likes this.
--I believe 7% is 28,000 not much of a difference.
--HST is coming and here to stay so I think we should be pushing to ensure it is fairly implemented. For example if HST on restaurant is the current liquor tax etc going to come off... how about hotel tax etc. if these and other taxes are removed. Why should HST apply to government user fees such as fishing licence etc.
--some will recall that federal government promised to get rid of GST but didn't so lets ensure we spend our collective minds on how best to implement the HST which will not go away with a change of government no matter what the other parties promise.
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Well one point two billion dollars sure sounds like a lot of money, I mean really that's the same amount as we got when we leased out BC rail, look at all the help that's been to the schools and hospitals in BC, seriously look at how the 600 promised jobs to the Prince George area CN has created that came with the leasing of BC rail has helped the interior. Hmmmmmmm more broken promises or flat out lies. Since Gordon and the Liberals have been in power their fiscal responsibility policies have taken the provincial dept from 34 billion to almost 70 billion now, that 1.2 bil won't even cover the interest on that. Our unemployment rate has never been as low as it was in 2001 under the former government, anyone that thinks we're better off now just because the liberals tell them we are better look at the numbers. Naturally if we away the province there will be all kinds of big companies show up to take it off our hands but they have to be made to pay some of the bills while they're here the HST is just downloading more of the expenses of running the province from the rich to the working class and damn near everyone I talk to that is on this forum are working class people.
I hope this HST thing serves to topple the Liberals out of power but by the time the next election roles around BC will be close to 100 billion in dept the way things are going and no future government will ever be able to bring back the standard of living we once had with that kind of dept load, like I said earlier the HST won't even pay the interest on the money the liberals have borrowed since they've been in power, they keep making cor perate tax cuts, so it's just the working people that the burden falls on.
Gordon give us a break, do the best thing for the people of BC fall on your sword, resign, retire to Norway where your money"s coming from, just get out of Victoria your government and it's policies have failed.
Sounds like Carol James wrote that for you. ;D
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Just saw on the news that a house buyer will be paying an extra 7 % on a house on July 1. $400,000 dwelling will mean an extra $2,800 in tax than it is now. ::)
No wonder the government likes this.
You missed a decimal place - $28,000
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--I believe 7% is 28,000 not much of a difference.
--HST is coming and here to stay so I think we should be pushing to ensure it is fairly implemented. For example if HST on restaurant is the current liquor tax etc going to come off... how about hotel tax etc. if these and other taxes are removed. Why should HST apply to government user fees such as fishing licence etc.
--some will recall that federal government promised to get rid of GST but didn't so lets ensure we spend our collective minds on how best to implement the HST which will not go away with a change of government no matter what the other parties promise.
Never was good in math. ::)
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Just saw on the news that a house buyer will be paying an extra 7 % on a house on July 1. $400,000 dwelling will mean an extra $28,000 in tax than it is now. ::)
No wonder the government likes this.
You need to tell the whole story...... ;)
To offset the increase in costs, the Government of BC plans to offer a partial rebate of the provincial portion of the HST for new (and substantially renovated existing) housing to ensure that new homes up to $525,000 will bear no more tax than under the current PST system, while homes above $525,000 will receive a flat rebate of $26,250. New home sales over $525,000 will be impacted, as buyers will have to pay an additional 7% tax less the $26,250 flat rebate.
http://www.bcrea.bc.ca/hst/faq.htm#11 (http://www.bcrea.bc.ca/hst/faq.htm#11)
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You need to tell the whole story...... ;)
To offset the increase in costs, the Government of BC plans to offer a partial rebate of the provincial portion of the HST for new (and substantially renovated existing) housing to ensure that new homes up to $525,000 will bear no more tax than under the current PST system, while homes above $525,000 will receive a flat rebate of $26,250. New home sales over $525,000 will be impacted, as buyers will have to pay an additional 7% tax less the $26,250 flat rebate.
http://www.bcrea.bc.ca/hst/faq.htm#11 (http://www.bcrea.bc.ca/hst/faq.htm#11)
You should run for the Liberals in the next election. ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the clarification and I should have researched it more thoroughly but I still don't like it and I will be going to sign up tonight as a canvasser to get names at the meeting with gardener Bill tonight.
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You should run for the Liberals in the next election. ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the clarification and I should have researched it more thoroughly but I still don't like it and I will be going to sign up tonight as a canvasser to get names at the meeting with gardener Bill tonight.
No problem Chris.
I won't be running for the liberals. Probably because I know that by speaking the truth nobody would ever vote for me!!! I believe all politicians will say whatever they need to get into power and stay in power. On the HST issue I just want to do myl part to help clarify what the HST actually will do,whether I like it or not.
Say Hi to Bill for me........ and mention to him that I think he should stick to gardening!!! ;D ;D ;D
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And this is the problem! You and probably most of the anti HST'ers are upset with Campbell for one reason or another and you are using the new HST to vent. No problem with being upset with Campbell but why use the HST campaign?
The whole anti HST campaign loses credibility when it's real motive is to complain about Campbell. There are many more positives than negatives about the HST. 7 out of 10 provinces are incorporating it! Only Manitoba, Saskatchewan and PEI are currently holding out. Manitoba is probably the next province to incorporate HST and they have an NDP government.
The help for small business has been simplification of their tax collecting duties. Now they only need to collect one tax not 2 taxes. I've owned a business in Ontario and that is huge!!! The HST will benefit the consumer over the long run because many products we buy and pay PST and GST on have PST incorporated in the price. This is because our current system doesn't allow the business to claim back the PST it pays before it sells a product to you or I. In a competitive market that will knock between 3-5% off many products. Although all taxes suck, simpler is better when it comes to taxes.
Save your Campbell frustrations for the next election and express them there.... where they can actually make a difference! ???
Well, I think there is alot of propagnada being spewed, half truths.... blahblahblah.
But heres the thing, been involved in business operations for a good 20 yrs now, and SUPRIZE!!! There is a thing called a PST number that most, if not all businesses (manufacturers) use. NO ONE pays PST, its called an exemption number. Only certain things are not exempt from PST under the current laws. So there is very little PST being included in manufactured goods (other than certain consumables) for sale in BC already. If you buy... say...10 tons of steel for a project, the company you buy it from doesnt charge you PST, because you're exempt (remember that thing called the PST number). Under the current regs, a company pays GST, but then later submits it for refund, usually on a quarterly basis, now imagine you have say $100,000 or $200,000 in payables on a monthly basis,
your company has to hold over 3 months, the cost of the GST (5%) they are charged to buy raw materials for production. So if you have, for simplicity sake, to hold $15,000 over 3 months (remember quarterly) before your rebate is refunded to your business, but under the HST, you will now have to hold $36,000, how is this allowing a manufacturer to save money, 1) They already dont pay PST, and 2) they will now have to pay out even more before seeing it returned to their working capital (cashflow).
As far as retailers and streamlining etc, big deal, there is business software out there most if not all businesses use to calculate the end user taxes they are expected to submit to the govt, with a push of a button, a savings of at least a whole 5 minutes...BIG DEAL, no folks, no matter the propaganda you hear spewed from the mouths of the fiberals, take this to the bank...this is a cash grab PERIOD, there will be no savings to pass on, and the reason provinces are going this route? 1) Federal incentives 2) More money into general revenue from you and me from more taxes.
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Under the current regs, a company pays GST, but then later submits it for refund, usually on a quarterly basis,
i) That's a bureaucratic nightmare. Why not just exempt the GST at the source rather than paying it and then submit for refund ?
ii) Why are the Feds so interested in having the provinces harmonize their sales tax ? What do they gain ?
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i) ii) Why are the Feds so interested in having the provinces harmonize their sales tax ? What do they gain ?
I video tapped some of Bill's presentation tonight and he explains this. I will get them up on u tube for you in the next day or so.
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i) That's a bureaucratic nightmare. Why not just exempt the GST at the source rather than paying it and then submit for refund ?
ii) Why are the Feds so interested in having the provinces harmonize their sales tax ? What do they gain ?
--I think that is the plus side point... this should reduce the cost of collecting the tax and the amount of paperwork and recordkeeping by business owners.
--feds get the province to collect the tax for them and I think actually pay the province some portion for collection.
--feds can lay off some of their employees currently adminsitering GST only taxes.
--Please don't bother to quote me as I am not an expert on this.. I do not know if Provincial or Fedeal employees actually collect the tax but the idea was to greatly reduce admin by having only one agency collect thus reducing overhead on the collection.
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i) That's a bureaucratic nightmare. Why not just exempt the GST at the source rather than paying it and then submit for refund ?
ii) Why are the Feds so interested in having the provinces harmonize their sales tax ? What do they gain ?
i) The idea with GST and HST is that the end consumer should pay the tax. It's hard to determine in advance who the end consumer is so GST/HST is charged every time something is sold and rebated if the product is resold. This is different from the current system where some items that are not PST exempt get resold and PST ends up charged on top of PST. The consumer ends up paying more for the products.
ii) The Feds want it harmonized for a number of reasons.... they do have something to gain.
- They probably will be able to collect more tax (more revenue for them)
- They are doing businesses a favor because it's simpler collecting one tax rather than 2 taxes.
- They are saving the provinces a lot of money because the province no longer needs the staff to administer/collect the PST. The Feds are responsible for collecting the HST and they will send the province a cheque.
Businesses are the biggest fans of the new HST because it is simpler to administer and in spite of what bcguy says, it will lower their costs. While businesses will owe a bigger HST cheque than the current GST cheque that they submit each quarter, what bcguy didn't mention is that they will be collecting more HST tax when they sell their product. Remember the HST they pay out is subtracted from what they collect in HST and only a cheque for the difference is sent to the feds. The net effect is exactly the same as under the current system!
Because the BC government will be collecting less PST they will make up for that by charging the HST on more items. The BC government no longer legislates what items are subject to HST, the Feds make those rules. Lower income families will get a bigger rebate than the GST rebate they currently get.(to compensate for paying more tax) Most of the items you see on the HST list are items that will be purchased by higher income families. Theoretically they can afford it.
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No problem Chris.
I won't be running for the liberals. Probably because I know that by speaking the truth nobody would ever vote for me!!! I believe all politicians will say whatever they need to get into power and stay in power. On the HST issue I just want to do myl part to help clarify what the HST actually will do,whether I like it or not.
Say Hi to Bill for me........ and mention to him that I think he should stick to gardening!!! ;D ;D ;D
Said hi to Bill for you tonight but he does not remember you, I said you fished and were not a gardener so he said that explains it. ;D ;D
A very large crowd at the gathering tonight, in the hundreds and many including me signed up to canvas names starting April 6.
I video tapped some of Bill's presentation so I will get up on u tube in a day or so for you to view. They have made many stops and will be in Vancouver and onto the Island in the next few days.
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Said hi to Bill for you tonight but he does not remember you, I said you fished and were not a gardener so he said that explains it. ;D ;D
Maybe I was wrong to suggest that Bill stick to gardening...... I should have suggested he take up fishing! ;D
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And this is the problem! You and probably most of the anti HST'ers are upset with Campbell for one reason or another and you are using the new HST to vent. No problem with being upset with Campbell but why use the HST campaign?
So it's A-OK to just let him and the rest of his cowering curs,um, caucus to get away with ANOTHER outright lie and just say Please Sir -Can I have some more? I'd rather die fighting than lie down like a sheep. How many straws before the camels back finally breaks? I think this bale will do it. Campbell isn't the only source of my anger- it's also the rest of the liars, apologists and gutless hacks that lack the testicular fortitude to stand up to what they should know is dead wrong on not just this, but more than a few other things that are highly suspect. These zombies were sent to Victoria to represent their constituents , not Campbell's political donor list. They're as corrupt as sure as the sun shines.Doubt me? Look at the donor list, see who benefits from the Liberal agenda. It stinks. Reeks of government for sale. What seems pretty vacant here with your response is the wait until the next election.NO If I can do some arm twisting and it makes one person think, makes one Liberal STAND UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING, not what the liars and con men running the game tell them to do, mission accomplished.
The whole anti HST campaign loses credibility when it's real motive is to complain about Campbell. There are many more positives than negatives about the HST. 7 out of 10 provinces are incorporating it! Only Manitoba, Saskatchewan and PEI are currently holding out. Manitoba is probably the next province to incorporate HST and they have an NDP government.
Gee- I'm reminded of Mom asking me if all my friends wanted to jump off a cliff...I'm not a lemming.
The help for small business has been simplification of their tax collecting duties. Now they only need to collect one tax not 2 taxes. I've owned a business in Ontario and that is huge!!! The HST will benefit the consumer over the long run because many products we buy and pay PST and GST on have PST incorporated in the price. This is because our current system doesn't allow the business to claim back the PST it pays before it sells a product to you or I. In a competitive market that will knock between 3-5% off many products. Although all taxes suck, simpler is better when it comes to taxes.
More taxes always benefit the consumer. ::) I'm old enough to remember Mulroney telling us how good the GST was.... ::)
Save your Campbell frustrations for the next election and express them there.... where they can actually make a difference! ???
And I can lie down in front of a steamroller if I choose.Maybe the recall act is weak, but if the only weapon I have is rocks, than I'll put them in my sling and aim it right between the eyes. I'm sure that I'm not the only humanoid in BC who is fed up with outright lies and pablum. In my opinion, when we collectively shrug our shoulders and accept liars and scam artists as representative of our society and province, than it's time to cash in my chips.Now is the time to stand up to make the worms squirm. Simply put, this a beachhead. Fight or flee? I'll fight.When I know somethings wrong, I'll resist and fight every step of the way, as I'm seeing more than a few BCer's getting angry enough to sweep aside the garbage the hacks toss at us and stand up to be counted. The knives are coming out for Campbell, although I don't see any of his sheeple being bright enough to turn around the Liberals, maybe they'll do the honourable thing and rid themselves of the political constipation known as Gordon Campbell.
And to the person that brought up the fast ferries- How much was the convention center OVER budget? ;)
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I feel better now!
Isn't this forum great? I always feel better when I vent as well........ ;D ;D
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What a "fantastic" night it was last night being there with Bill and hundred's of concerned citzens about this unfair tax. The turnout in a Liberal hot bed was unbelievable I can hardly wait to get my canvasser package and am going to try for a 100 signatures.
Incase you missed it please check out the web site at FightHST.com for more information. Maybe it will change alwaysfishn stance. ;D ;D ;D
Hope to get my video's uploaded later tonight.
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It seems that everyone that is either for or against the HST highlights only the points that support their argument. Here's a report summary from TD Financial Group which highlights both positive and negative aspects of the tax.
Thought I'd post it so some of the anti-Campell posters could have a little more of an argument besides "we don't like that #$@!&'n Campbell" ... or words to that effect. ;D
Here's a summary but the full link is below. http://www.hstincanada.com/2010/01/td-bank-hst-impact-report/ (http://www.hstincanada.com/2010/01/td-bank-hst-impact-report/)
Key Highlights from the Report
• We estimate that the move to a harmonized sales tax (HST) will reduce the cost of doing business by a total of $6.9 billion in Ontario and British Columbia
• The majority of the cost savings will pass onto consumers in the form of lower prices, and consumers in both provinces could witness a 0.8% -0.9% drop in the pre-tax ticket prices on the purchase of goods and services
• However, the tax burden will shift from businesses to consumers, who will now pay the flat HST on a broader array of goods and services than before, and the effective tax rate on consumption will increase by 1.5 percentage points Ontario and B.C. , and the overall price level will increase by 0.7 percentage points in both provinces
• The combined impact will lead to a permanent 0.4% increase in Canada’s average annual consumer price level relative to where it would have been without harmonization.
Notable Excerpts
Since Ontario and B.C export and import a significant portion of their GDP, firms in these regions face a high degree of competition from foreign suppliers. Therefore, in order to attract more demand and increase profitability, firms will have to pass the majority of these savings forward to consumers.
Although we anticipate that consumers will pay lower pre-tax prices on average, they will have to pay the flat HST on a broader array of goods and services than before, therefore increasing their effective tax rate on consumption.
Given the list of goods and services that will be affected by the new tax, we have estimated that Ontario consumers will experience an 8 percentage point increase in the posted tax rate on approximately 19% of their expenditures.
In B.C., consumers will be subject to a 7 percentage point increase on the tax rate on 21% of their expenditures. In Ontario and B.C., this will lead to a 1.5 percentage point increase in the effective tax rate.
Fortunately in Ontario (and in Toronto), about 90% of new homes are priced below $500,000 (and 75% of new homes are priced under $400,000) 4, so the majority of new homebuyers will be affected at the lower range. B.C. will likely be hit harder by the tax, as home prices in the province are higher than those in Ontario. Existing homes are about 30% more expensive in B.C. than they are in Ontario.
Conclusions?
The report does not try and veil the fact that the HST has both positive and negative ramifications. Overall the folks at TD are in favor of the added tax and believe it will simplify the current system, encourage job growth, and increase wages and investment. However they admit that in the short run it will raise consumer prices, and could have a negative effect on the housing industry, primarily in B.C. (this report was released before the B.C. gov changed the maximum cost of new house to $525,000).
I think it is up to us to be fully informed on potential benefits and shortcomings and to then take initiative to ensure that the least fortunate of our country are not going have to foot the bill.
http://www.td.com/economics/special/dp0909_hst.pdf (http://www.td.com/economics/special/dp0909_hst.pdf)
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http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/news/89732432.html
For a report on the meeting last night in Chilliwack.
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I listened to Bill on the video and have decided to make a small donation ......
so that Bill can buy some duct tape to hold up his ant-HST sign at the next rally. ;D
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The majority of the cost savings will pass onto
consumers in the form of lower prices, and consumers
in both provinces could witness a 0.8%
-0.9% drop in the pre-tax ticket prices on the
purchase of goods and services
This is from the report. Well in my 67 years I do not oftern see things go down in price only up. Today we saw a number of increases.
Hydro, TransLink and other fees increase today
By Jonathan Fowlie, Vancouver SunApril 1, 2010 Several everyday activities in B.C. become more expensive today, as fee increases kick in for a range of services from gas and electricity to transit, ferries and provincial parks.
"There is a cruel April Fool's joke coming ... to the public in British Columbia," New Democratic Party leader Carole James said Wednesday as she highlighted the fee increases.
"Almost every family will be hit by further fees," she said. "This is just going to be continued pressure on families."
Because April 1 is the first day of the new fiscal year for government, many planned fee increases take effect today.
Rates at BC Hydro will increase by about nine per cent. The overall utility bill for most Terasen Gas customers will go up about six per cent.
TransLink fares will increase as well, with a monthly one-zone pass rising to $81 from $73. A book of 10 one-zone tickets will rise to $21 from $19.
Fares at BC Ferries will increase, with the cost of a one-way car trip on a major route rising to $46.75 from $45. A walk-on ticket for the major routes will increase $0.50 to $14.
Camping fees in provincial parks increase today, with rates for the highest demand sites rising to $30 from $26.
On Wednesday, Finance Minister Colin Hansen defended the increases, saying each one had been carefully scrutinized, with bodies like BC Ferries and Hydro having to make their cases to oversight bodies before any increases were approved.
Hansen added that his government has lowered personal income taxes since taking office in 2001.
"At a minimum a British Columbian today is paying about 37 per cent less than they would have paid 10 years ago for the same income level. And for lower income British Columbians they actually have an even more substantial reduction in their personal income tax," said Hansen.
"Yes there are some things that are going to cost a little bit more in terms of fees, but the bottom line is that B.C. families have much more disposable income today than they had 10 years ago," he added.
jfowlie@vancouversun.com
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I listened to Bill on the video and have decided to make a small donation ......
so that Bill can buy some duct tape to hold up his ant-HST sign at the next rally. ;D
That was just a signal the HST is going to fall under the pressure as 85 % of the people in BC that are against it. ;D ;D
Save your money incase the HST comes in, you will need it. :o
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Businesses should brace themselves for a likely slowdown in Canadian spending in 2010 as consumer fundamentals are at their weakest point in 15 years and do not match up with recent rebounds in sentiment, a new CIBC World Markets report says.
Benjamin Tal, economist with CIBC, has developed a new consumer capability index based on seven economic factors to measure the ability of Canadians to spend.
This differs from the traditional consumer confidence survey, which asks Canadians if they feel they can maintain their spending.
"The recent surge in spending is not backed up by rising consumer fundamentals," Mr. Tal said in the report. "The 'V-shaped' recovery in consumer confidence we have seen throughout the second half of 2009, has actually coincided with a drop in the ability of households to spend."
He warns that if, as expected, the Bank of Canada raises interest rates in the summer, it will have an unexpected side effect on spending as Canadians have been spending through increased debt, not rising income.
"To a certain extent debt is replacing income as a major driver of consumer purchases," he said. "Given the vulnerable starting point of the consumer, the Bank of Canada will soon find that even a moderate monetary squeeze will be sufficient to drive a material deceleration in consumer spending."
In particular, Mr. Tal found that mortgage debt accounts for about 70% of the total increase in household debt in the past year due to the skyrocketing Canadian real estate market.
Also, while the debt-service ratio has fallen to 2006 levels during the recession, it still remains elevated, so households will respond quickly to any interest rate changes. Mr. Tal said.
Other concerns include the fact that the gap between real estate gains and income growth is widening, suggesting stagnating or falling real estate markets in coming years, and that household debt is rising faster than assets.
"Despite the rebound in stock valuations and the recent surge in home prices, over the past two years Canadians have seen their liabilities rising twice as fast as their assets," he said.
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This is from the report. Well in my 67 years I do not oftern see things go down in price only up. Today we saw a number of increases.
It's called inflation...... not HST ;)
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It's called inflation...... not HST ;)
Ok now inflation will continue to rise because of the added cost of the HST.
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It seems that everyone that is either for or against the HST highlights only the points that support their argument. Here's a report summary from TD Financial Group which highlights both positive and negative aspects of the tax.
Thought I'd post it so some of the anti-Campell posters could have a little more of an argument besides "we don't like that #$@!&'n Campbell" ... or words to that effect. ;D
Here's a summary but the full link is below. http://www.hstincanada.com/2010/01/td-bank-hst-impact-report/ (http://www.hstincanada.com/2010/01/td-bank-hst-impact-report/)
Key Highlights from the Report
• We estimate that the move to a harmonized sales tax (HST) will reduce the cost of doing business by a total of $6.9 billion in Ontario and British Columbia
At what cost to social programs?
• The majority of the cost savings will pass onto consumers in the form of lower prices, and consumers in both provinces could witness a 0.8% -0.9% drop in the pre-tax ticket prices on the purchase of goods and services
Wanna buy a bridge?
• However, the tax burden will shift from businesses to consumers, who will now pay the flat HST on a broader array of goods and services than before, and the effective tax rate on consumption will increase by 1.5 percentage points Ontario and B.C. , and the overall price level will increase by 0.7 percentage points in both provinces
BINGO!!!
• The combined impact will lead to a permanent 0.4% increase in Canada’s average annual consumer price level relative to where it would have been without harmonization.
Doing a GREAT job on proving my points
Notable Excerpts
Since Ontario and B.C export and import a significant portion of their GDP, firms in these regions face a high degree of competition from foreign suppliers. Therefore, in order to attract more demand and increase profitability, firms will have to pass the majority of these savings forward to consumers.
See bridge for sale above
Although we anticipate that consumers will pay lower pre-tax prices on average, they will have to pay the flat HST on a broader array of goods and services than before, therefore increasing their effective tax rate on consumption.
Given the list of goods and services that will be affected by the new tax, we have estimated that Ontario consumers will experience an 8 percentage point increase in the posted tax rate on approximately 19% of their expenditures.
In B.C., consumers will be subject to a 7 percentage point increase on the tax rate on 21% of their expenditures. In Ontario and B.C., this will lead to a 1.5 percentage point increase in the effective tax rate.
Great way to stimulate the economy in a recessionary cycle! ::)
Fortunately in Ontario (and in Toronto), about 90% of new homes are priced below $500,000 (and 75% of new homes are priced under $400,000) 4, so the majority of new homebuyers will be affected at the lower range. B.C. will likely be hit harder by the tax, as home prices in the province are higher than those in Ontario. Existing homes are about 30% more expensive in B.C. than they are in Ontario.
Housing is out of reach for most as the system is presently. Let's make it tougher!
Conclusions?
The report does not try and veil the fact that the HST has both positive and negative ramifications. Overall the folks at TD are in favor of the added tax and believe it will simplify the current system, encourage job growth, and increase wages and investment. However they admit that in the short run it will raise consumer prices, and could have a negative effect on the housing industry, primarily in B.C. (this report was released before the B.C. gov changed the maximum cost of new house to $525,000).
I think it is up to us to be fully informed on potential benefits and shortcomings and to then take initiative to ensure that the least fortunate of our country are not going have to foot the bill.
http://www.td.com/economics/special/dp0909_hst.pdf (http://www.td.com/economics/special/dp0909_hst.pdf)
In one of her last acts as Finance Minister, Carole Taylor ended the corporate capital tax on banks -- $100 million a year in government revenue. Upon leaving government, Taylor joined the TD Bank board where she stands to earn $145,000 to $300,000 per year
Weird how that works.... Just a coincidence I suppose.If I had more time, I could put up the ex Liberals that now work for Liberals bootlickers and donors, but that's a lot of bandwidth to use up. It's not only Campbell that earns my disgust, but the whole troop of liars and con men that sit in power. NOT ONE has the cajones to stand up for what the electorate want, but they opt for the iron hand/s personal agenda.
Please excuse the cut and paste teacher, I just didn't have time to retool it.
The BC Healthy Kids Program now covers annual checkups along with other basic dental services – such as X-rays and fillings – for a total of $1,400 every two years.
YET
There's money in the sugar jar for :
Olympic tickets
120 million to oil and gas companies (no profit there)
7 million to build a free apartment building in China
Film Industry give away:
The credits, announced by Finance Minister Colin Hansen and Kevin Krueger, Minister for Tourism, Culture and the Arts, provide for a new BC Interactive Digital Media tax credit of 17.5 per cent of labour costs in the development of video games. It also sweetens the labour tax credit for foreign producers, raising it to 33 per cent from 25 per cent. The qualified labour expenditure cap rises from 48 to 60 per cent, and the digital animation and visual effects tax credit rises 2.5 per cent, from 15 to 17.5 per cent.
Cuts to community Addiction and Mental Health Services, sexual abuse counselling and autism services for children
The highest rate of child poverty for six years in a row
Cutting $10 million dollars of funding to community social services programs
Millions of dollars in cuts for gaming and lottery funding to community programs
800 teachers in Vancouver and more around the province have received layoff warning letters
Cuts to thousands of surgeries and other medically necessary health care services to make up the $360 million in savings the BC government wants
Increasing the cost of living to seniors living in care homes by raising care-home fees eight per cent in 2010 and 10 per cent in 2011, impacting 75% of seniors, leaving many seniors with only $275 per month for their personal needs
This is one of the most DISGUSTING pieces of frogpoop any heartless piece of trash could come up with)
The lowest minimum wage in Canada, with no increase in nine years, combined with one of the highest costs of living in the nation
Is this what we want for BC alwaysfishin? And you think sitting on one's butt and waiting for more decimation and give aways (BC Rail, Jordan River tree farm and on and on) is OK? Or should we stand up and be counted?
My Dad told me to stand up and fight for the right cause. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but simply put, I'd rather see my taxes go to seeing a kids teeth be taken care of or our seniors being afforded a bit of dignity before we start handing out money to a profitable business sector. When we as a society, start pushing the vulnerable to the side for a few dollars and get whitewash and male bovine excrement as reasoning then it is time to stand up and be counted instead of concluding that "I've got mine".
If you want, I can hook you up with a torch and pitchfork. ;D
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Is this what we want for BC alwaysfishin? And you think sitting on one's butt and waiting for more decimation and give aways (BC Rail, Jordan River tree farm and on and on) is OK? Or should we stand up and be counted?
My Dad told me to stand up and fight for the right cause. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but simply put, I'd rather see my taxes go to seeing a kids teeth be taken care of or our seniors being afforded a bit of dignity before we start handing out money to a profitable business sector. When we as a society, start pushing the vulnerable to the side for a few dollars and get whitewash and male bovine excrement as reasoning then it is time to stand up and be counted instead of concluding that "I've got mine".
If you want, I can hook you up with a torch and pitchfork. ;D
As I said earlier, everyone will pick out the facts that support their argument and highlight them while ignoring the rest of the facts. I'm aware of the pros and cons and am realistic enough to realize that the perfect solution isn't available.
My Dad told me if I want to complain about something then I better have an alternate solution. How about some of you left leaning folks suggest some solutions on how the government can balance the budget and still provide the social programs everyone wants. Reality must suggest to you that one doesn't exist without the other... ???
And try to remember that the businesses you suggest are making the huge profits are also the businesses that write your pay cheques. Chasing them out of the province could hurt you.
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Where to cut?
My personal favourite is the Public Affairs Bureau. There's no need for infomercials and propaganda machines in government. Disassemble the regional health boards and all the fat cat salaries and benefits from this massive failure.In fact, disassemble a lot of the boards and gravy that gets given to Liberal, um, board members.Bureaucracy has become a growth business but you don't see cuts there, just childrens dental programs. Fire David Hahn. Ferry fares are an insult to riders and to reap a million a year for that is a disgraceful insult to all British Columbians. That was a fix - comparable remuneration , like Washington State ferries is in 250,000 to 300,000 area. Direct that money back into health care. Downsize the cabinet.I've heard there's a proposed Ministry Of Ingrown Toenails( For John Van Dongen or John Les). The cabinet is bloated. Up sin taxes- I don't drink but I'll live with an extra $.50 to a buck on a pack on my pack of Players. Raise PST a penny. We lose our sovereign rights to taxation by handing them over to Ottawa. This one won't win me fans, but it would save money and generate revenue. Legalize marijuana. Distribute it, sell it through outlets like liquor stores and tax the crap out of it. The war on that hasn't been very successful, most Canadians are tolerant to it. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Tough choices, but needed ones.
Can I start sharpening the tines on that pitchfork for you yet? ;)
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I agree with you on many of the points in your last post... although I'm not convinced on legalizing marijuana , even if it raises some tax money.
I was glad to see you avoided the old NDP "raise taxes on the profitable corporations" argument.
But back to HST. I realize it will increase taxes for most of us. However it will effect the higher income earner much more than the lower income earner. In the process it puts in place a tax system that is simpler, fairer and allows our businesses to be more competitive not only against the other provinces but internationally as well.
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I agree with you on many of the points in your last post... although I'm not convinced on legalizing marijuana , even if it raises some tax money.
I was glad to see you avoided the old NDP "raise taxes on the profitable corporations" argument.
But back to HST. I realize it will increase taxes for most of us. However it will effect the higher income earner much more than the lower income earner. In the process it puts in place a tax system that is simpler, fairer and allows our businesses to be more competitive not only against the other provinces but internationally as well.
Um, unless you're earning 8 bucks an hour or on disability. There's nothing to protect or help the poorest of the poor except a grab at the few pennies they have to survive on.
I knew the marijuana thing seems a bit out there, but the reasoning is pretty sensible.Not only would it create revenue, but it would free up policing. We're not winning any war on it, never will. Prohibition was an abject failure as well.
(We better stop soon or we'll suffer "The Wrath of Wrodney". :-X ;D)
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Where to cut?
My personal favourite is the Public Affairs Bureau. There's no need for infomercials and propaganda machines in government. Disassemble the regional health boards and all the fat cat salaries and benefits from this massive failure.In fact, disassemble a lot of the boards and gravy that gets given to Liberal, um, board members.Bureaucracy has become a growth business but you don't see cuts there, just childrens dental programs. Fire David Hahn. Ferry fares are an insult to riders and to reap a million a year for that is a disgraceful insult to all British Columbians. That was a fix - comparable remuneration , like Washington State ferries is in 250,000 to 300,000 area. Direct that money back into health care. Downsize the cabinet.I've heard there's a proposed Ministry Of Ingrown Toenails( For John Van Dongen or John Les). The cabinet is bloated. Up sin taxes- I don't drink but I'll live with an extra $.50 to a buck on a pack on my pack of Players. Raise PST a penny. We lose our sovereign rights to taxation by handing them over to Ottawa. This one won't win me fans, but it would save money and generate revenue. Legalize marijuana. Distribute it, sell it through outlets like liquor stores and tax the crap out of it. The war on that hasn't been very successful, most Canadians are tolerant to it. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Tough choices, but needed ones.
Can I start sharpening the tines on that pitchfork for you yet? ;)
X2 on this post. AF you sure are out to lunch man.
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The bottom line is that the HST is simply a very bad tax. The long range problem is that it is a Federal Tax and BC will lose its ability to adjust tax rates without going to Ottawa first. Very, very bad idea.
If your confused about all the debate you hear simpy ask yourself this question: Why would the Federal Government offer BC $1.6B to do this?
That simple fact should convince you tha the HST is very bad tax.
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Another opinion.
Liberals distort tax history to justify their HST flip-flop
By Vaughn Palmer, Vancouver SunApril 3, 2010 When Finance Minister Colin Hansen tabled the enabling legislation for the harmonized sales tax this week, he offered a justification that was completely at odds with his government's previous taxation policy.
"This is a bill that modernizes and enhances the competitiveness of the provincial tax system by eliminating the old, antiquated, inefficient and job-killing provincial sales tax," Hansen said in the house.
Old, antiquated, inefficient and job killing? The PST?
That's no way for a B.C. finance minister to talk about a tax that occupied a central position in provincial fiscal policy from the time it was first enacted to support social services in 1948.
Provincial governments of every political stripe -- Coalition, Social Credit, New Democratic Party and B.C. Liberal -- often tinkered with the tax, raising rates, adding exemptions.
But they jealously guarded the made-in-B. C. nature of the tax as a mainstay of their budget-making, a source of revenue on one hand, a way of dispensing incentives on the other. Both aspects were tailored to a unique provincial economy and political culture.
The federal government and provincial business leaders periodically called for Victoria to join with Ottawa in a single sales tax. Most economists could sketch the longterm advantages of the one tax over the two on the back of an envelope.
The pitches failed every time. Not because B.C. politicians failed to understand the longterm economic benefits, but because they feared the short-term political consequences of shifting from the relatively narrow PST base to the broader federal goods and services tax regime.
All those services, now subject only to the GST, where the tax bite would increase by more than double overnight. All those provincially authored exemptions that would disappear as well. No provincial government was prepared to risk the inevitable political fallout.
Carole Taylor, Hansen's predecessor as finance minister, presided over an extensive study of harmonization during the Liberals' second term.
She concluded that while many businesses could benefit, the tax shift would be punishing for provincial consumers and, not incidentally, for the politicians who depend on their support to get elected.
Asked point-blank whether the B.C. Liberal government would harmonize the provincial sales tax with its federal counterpart, Taylor's reply was succinct and final: "Not on my watch."
Instead the B.C. Liberals embarked on an extensive and time-consuming review of the provincial sales tax, with an aim to reforming it to better suit a changing provincial economy.
Presiding over the review was then-revenue minister Rick Thorpe who noted the added advantages of a homegrown solution. "We do not want to give our sovereign tax rights away to the federal government."
As I've noted before, there's a certain irony in the way harmonization was rejected by Taylor, one of the more "liberal" Liberals, and by Thorpe, one of the more conservative ones, both of whom retired at the subsequent provincial election.
I mention it again only to note the grotesque distortion in Hansen's current justification for harmonization, implying, as it did, that his predecessors had unwittingly maintained a tax regime that was inefficient and killing jobs in the provincial economy.
Another distortion was evident in his chosen title for the enabling bill, the Consumption Tax Rebate and Transition Act, which made no mention of the harmonized sales tax that made the legislation necessary.
"I'm not quite sure why the government has chosen this rather modest title that only obliquely suggests it has anything to do with the HST," said NDP finance critic Bruce Ralston in his opening comments on the bill in the legislature Thursday.
"It perhaps is an excess of modesty on the part of the minister or perhaps it's a realization that the words 'harmonized sales tax,' if it were to really identify the bill for what it was, might provoke even more public anger."
Ralston went on to suggest alternative titles: "The holding up B.C.'s end of the deal with the federal government to get $1.6 billion in swag and implement the HST act. The single best thing we can do for the B.C. economy but didn't want to tell you about before the last election act. This tax is going to fund health care, but we didn't think of that explanation for eight months." And so on.
Better still was his tongue-in-cheek suggestion that the title might violate the truth-in-advertising provisions of the Consumer Protection Act.
"I say that this particular title of this particular bill falls squarely within the definition of a deceptive act or practice. It makes no reference to the HST. Everyone knows it's about the HST.
"[But] they don't even have the jam to put it in the title of the bill."
So it went in the first instalment of a debate that is expected to consume most of the available time in the legislature this month.
There's the barrel. There's the fish. Fire away, Opposition members. The government has surely created a target-rich environment.
vpalmer@vancouversun.com
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Telling it like it is Chris! ;)
April 6 is coming up FAST Folks!
The attendance at the rallies held thus far have been stupendous! In almost every location, over capacity crowds are rallying to the cause! In fact, more Folks are attending these than any of the rallies held by either of the major parties in the past several elections! The Groundswell is Growing! ;D
Due to the issue relating to my eye problems, and following the intensive surgery performed on that last week, I have had to bow out of being directly involved. That hurts as much as dealing with the eye problems itself. I VERY much wanted to play a role here, however small. But they have some Fine local representation, and I feel confident the matter is in good hands.
And so it goes. We VERY much stand a good chance of turning this one around. Please help us end the message that we are NOT "Sheeple" and this latest BS being forced upon us Will Not Be Tolerated!
Cheers,
Nog
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X2 on this post.
??? ?????? ???
AF you sure are out to lunch man.
Reading between the lines, I'm going to take a long shot here and suggest that yamadirt is neutral on the HST. ;D
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The bottom line is that the HST is simply a very bad tax. The long range problem is that it is a Federal Tax and BC will lose its ability to adjust tax rates without going to Ottawa first. Very, very bad idea.
If your confused about all the debate you hear simpy ask yourself this question: Why would the Federal Government offer BC $1.6B to do this?
That simple fact should convince you tha the HST is very bad tax.
I would have thought that having one government consult with another government before imposing a tax increase would be the ultimate in tax decision making!. I've seen more downward movement in the GST than I've ever seen in the BC PST!
The idea that HST is bad because BC is being paid to implement it is a connection that I never would have seen..... ??? I actually like getting paid for stuff I do! ;D
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Another opinion.
Liberals distort tax history to justify their HST flip-flop
etc etc etc.
Why don't the NDP come right out and say "If we vote NDP in the next election that they promise to repeal the HST!"
With 80% of BC's population against the HST (Vanderzalm's words, not mine) it seems like a sure fire way for the NDP to win a landslide . ::) ::)
Oh that's right.... the Federal Liberals tried that one already with the GST! ;D
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Why don't the NDP come right out and say "If we vote NDP in the next election that they promise to repeal the HST!"
With 80% of BC's population against the HST (Vanderzalm's words, not mine) it seems like a sure fire way for the NDP to win a landslide . ::) ::)
Oh that's right.... the Federal Liberals tried that one already with the GST! ;D
Exactly right ! The federal Liberals promised to rid of the universally despised GST brought in by the Tories. Last time I looked we still got the GST. Despite what they are saying in public does anyone really think the NDP is going to HST ?
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Exactly right ! The federal Liberals promised to rid of the universally despised GST brought in by the Tories. Last time I looked we still got the GST. Despite what they are saying in public does anyone really think the NDP is going to HST ?
They should be able to get rid of it as the way the present government is talking we will be rolling right along ;D ;D ;D with a great economy, high paying jobs, oodles of surplus money in the budget etc. because of the HST.
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Just one question alwaysfishin- Are you content to be bald faced lied to by the politicians? (looking forward to that answer)
I'm not and I think some of what you're seeing is the electorate getting fed up with liars who have the morals of an alley cat.
One thought would be to have EVERY POLITICIAN, regardless of political stripe , sign an oath holding them to their promises or resign the seat. Make the recall initiative more workable, because I'm more than a little sick of seeing iron handed dictators on all political levels hold an ax over any members head who doesn't follow party lines.
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Just one question alwaysfishin- Are you content to be bald faced lied to by the politicians? (looking forward to that answer)
I'm not and I think some of what you're seeing is the electorate getting fed up with liars who have the morals of an alley cat.
One thought would be to have EVERY POLITICIAN, regardless of political stripe , sign an oath holding them to their promises or resign the seat. Make the recall initiative more workable, because I'm more than a little sick of seeing iron handed dictators on all political levels hold an ax over any members head who doesn't follow party lines.
I don't like being lied to by anyone!
If you have ever owned/operated a business you have at some point changed your business strategy because the economy, technology, customers or staff have changed. Looking back does that mean you lied about what you originally planned to do? Should you have stuck to your original plan even though it was no longer workable and an alternate plan was necessary to make your business more successful?
Few folks have experienced running a business so they can't relate on that level. Running a province or country is no different than running a very large business. Unfortunately to most people a change in strategy by a politician means that he/she lied.
However this thread is about the HST. Whether the liberals "lied" has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the HST.
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C'mon now Alwaysfishin- Do you really believe that the implementation of the HST was anything but a desperate tax grab for federal lolly? Do you really believe this wasn't "on the radar" until just after the votes were counted? Did you read the letter or press release about the Liberal stance before and after? Would you allow your offspring to lie like this and just shrug your shoulders? I highly doubt many BC'ers are that gullible, but there may be a few. Very few, but your stance seems to represent that microscopic minority.
I have some magic beans I can sell you and just to sweeten the pot, I'll throw in a bridge.
It's past time government represented the electorate and their wishes. 85% are against the HST. Does that seem representative of our collective will?
BTW- I DO own and operate a business so that doesn't wash. If I, to all intents and purposes sign a contract to perform certain duties and I lay out the plan, but after I cash the cheque I change the rules of the contract, most of my customers would rightly fire me and/or sue me, as well they should. This is the exact same thing, except as a society we let politicians get away with it.
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C'mon now Alwaysfishin- Do you really believe that the implementation of the HST was anything but a desperate tax grab for federal lolly? Do you really believe this wasn't "on the radar" until just after the votes were counted? Did you read the letter or press release about the Liberal stance before and after? Would you allow your offspring to lie like this and just shrug your shoulders? I highly doubt many BC'ers are that gullible, but there may be a few. Very few, but your stance seems to represent that microscopic minority.
I have some magic beans I can sell you and just to sweeten the pot, I'll throw in a bridge.
It's past time government represented the electorate and their wishes. 85% are against the HST. Does that seem representative of our collective will?
BTW- I DO own and operate a business so that doesn't wash. If I, to all intents and purposes sign a contract to perform certain duties and I lay out the plan, but after I cash the cheque I change the rules of the contract, most of my customers would rightly fire me and/or sue me, as well they should. This is the exact same thing, except as a society we let politicians get away with it.
And that's the great thing about a democracy.... We all can express our opinions. I voted for MR Besler in the last provincial election. (He's the anti-HST organizer in Chilliwack). It wasn't that I was concerned about the liberal government, it was my concern that Mr Les had used his office to profit from some real estate deals.
I love that 85% statistic. Nobody likes taxes, specially if they seem like new taxes. Will that translate to votes for the NDP... not likely.
I haven't seen any signed contract that says the liberals wouldn't raise taxes or introduce new ones....
I do expect that they operate this province on a financially responsible basis and I accept that because the tax base is eroding they need to either cut expenses or raise revenue.
You are choosing to believe the HST is a desperate tax grab, I'm choosing to believe it's an opportunity to put a nation wide sale tax in place that makes more sense than the current system.
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I hope to get my canvasser kit this week and for starters I am gong for 100 signatures minimum. Sorry I have had trouble uploading Bill's talk here in Chilliwack to u tube as I promised but I am trying to get the problem fixed.
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I love that 85% statistic. Nobody likes taxes, specially if they seem like new taxes. Will that translate to votes for the NDP... not likely.
Perhaps not. But what it WILL translate to is the anti-HST program collecting their required 10% of the registered voters' signatures and forcing the matter to a public vote. Given the results of the Ipsos-Reid polls (between 80 - 85% directly opposed) there is likely little room for another outcome. 90 days to collect those signatures, and a growing juggernaut of support from nearly all directions, including notably in Gordo's own riding. ;D
You and the rest of the LIEberal Apologists can of course continue to offer your blind support for this merry Band Of Fools - that is your right.
As for the rest of us who are becoming more than jaded with the way this Shepherd tends his "flocks", methinks the day is coming up quickly when that message will be driven home. While you may not agree with the anti-HST program, it appears the vast majority do not share the same sentiment.
Gordo and his much hated HST are Going Down Folks. Given the overwhelming responses in the polls, there is likely no other outcome. As a small business operator myself, I couldn't be happier with the thought...
I do expect that they operate this province on a financially responsible basis and I accept that because the tax base is eroding they need to either cut expenses or raise revenue.
(http://bestsmileys.com/lol/20.gif) Methinks that your "expectations" are a tad beyond reality. "Financially Responsible"? LOL! Surely even one as obviously brainwashed as you appear to be don't actually believe what you just wrote? FAR too many examples to even begin to cite here!
As for "the tax base eroding" being the underlying causal agent driving the HST, methinks you're again choosing to support your first erroneous statement with another of the same ilk. If it wasn't for Gordo's complete LACK of fiscal responsibility, we wouldn't be facing down the deficit growing in such tremendous leaps and bounds under his Dick-tatorship.
You are choosing to believe the HST is a desperate tax grab, I'm choosing to believe it's an opportunity to put a nation wide sale tax in place that makes more sense than the current system.
You obviously can continue to believe whatever you want. Free country after all. Apparently some still believe the earth is flat, the moon made of cheese, and Gordo is actually a gentleman. ::)
After it is all said and done, we'll see who rules the day - Those that continuously LIE while in governance, or those who are PO'd enough to do something about it.
Cheers,
Nog
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the moon made of cheese
.........Its NOT!!!! :o There goes another childhood myth :-[ Just like the one about Gordo and his pirates being fiscally responsible. hey Nog-- aint you supposed to stay quiet in bed during your recovery period????....BADDDD boy
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But what it WILL translate to is the anti-HST program collecting their required 10% of the registered voters' signatures and forcing the matter to a public vote. Given the results of the Ipsos-Reid polls (between 80 - 85% directly opposed) there is likely little room for another outcome. 90 days to collect those signatures, and a growing juggernaut of support from nearly all directions, including notably in Gordo's own riding. ;D
So let's play along here Nog..... suppose the anti HST campaign does manage to get 10% of the voters in each riding to sign up. Next the new "bill" to propose canceling the HST needs to go to a public vote at taxpayer expense of course. Are you aware that 50% of the registered voters would need to vote in favor of the new "bill" in order to have it implemented?
It ain't gonna happen! It's tough enough to get 50% of the voters to a regular election let alone an election on a nuisance bill.
If I believed that the anti -HST campaign could get to first base, I'd be getting upset at what your futile exercise is going to cost us tax payers just for you to try get the "bill" to second base......
Fortunately I don't believe the anti-HST campaign will make it to first base ;)
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From a circulating e mail.
Hi folks
Not my usual broadcast, but an important one if you are a Canadian. Delete...it if it's not your cup of tea......but I thought it was an interesting perspective on the new harmonization tax.............I was wondering just how WE were going to pay for the Olympics.....its a bit disconcerting and sorry for the reality check. My question is...what's the solution? Mine is to live in a 3rd world country for 4-5 months of the year and support an economy and people I can afford to help, rather than feeling energy sucked in this one. I love it here and I find it more and more expensive to live in harmony. I believe living in Community is one solution, but most of the people I know, don't seem too ready for this. Off the grid, free energy, shared expenses, like cars, housing, etc, growing our own food... There are lots of solutions, but for now, here's the reality.
It's a cute poem and unbelievable how many taxes there are, considering 100 years ago, there were none and we were a very prosperous country...what happened? Did we become passive aggressive or too busy to notice, enjoying the fruits of the material world?
The Gov't of BC announced that BC will be 'Harmonizing' Provincial sales tax with the Federal GST, and said it will be revenue neutral. I heard today that harmonization will mean that there will be many fewer items that will be tax exempt now. Bottom line: More revenue will be collected.
Read carefully. Many groups including our MLAs want you to believe it will be revenue neutral but it sure doesn't look that way to me. The government in Ontario is giving each resident a $ 1000. cheque. Our government should forget about doing the same in BC. It will not even begin to pay the first year increase in costs. Remember the $ 100.00 we received when the carbon tax was introduced.?
Let's send a message to our MLA, (perhaps even this email) talk about it to your friends, send this email to everyone you can think of. These figures don't include some major key items such as car and home insurance going up 7%, home heating oil and gas for your car and natural gas for your home are going up 7 %. Just think about this the next time you eat in a restaurant. The entire bill will be taxed at 12% and the suggested tip is 15% for a total of 27%.
Trips to chiropractors, natualpaths and other important services up 7%,
Home purchases, used car purchases and many more that no one has thought about yet.
It is time to act before it is too late.
This is done to save business money by combining the two taxes (PST and GST) but there are already exceptions so why is there a need to add PST to items that don't have PST on them other then as a tax grab.
Let those MLA's know how unhappy we are.
THE TAX GRAB 7% more for NOTHING more
Seniors living in retirement enjoy a lifestyle different than the one they lived while at work. In retirement, to be active, often means paying a fee, a membership, an admission, a subscription or for costs for travel, etc.
We have calculated that the impact of this will be more costly for seniors, than anyone has reported.
Consider a retired couple, receiving total retirement income of $41,400 after tax per year, healthy enough to enjoy some comfort in retirement.
Many of those items used on a daily basis will now be subject to an 7% cost increase, because of the new harmonized sales tax introduced by the Liberal government
Look at just a few of those items that will cost more, without getting more.
* Cable TV: if $60 monthly, yearly increase is $50.40 more.
* Golf Fees: if $1,500 yearly X 2, yearly increase is $210.00 more
* Gym Membership: if $35 month X 2, yearly increase is $58.80 more.
* Hydro: if $85 monthly, yearly increase is $71.40 more.
* Haircuts: if $450 annually for 2 people, yearly increase is $31.50 more.
* Heating Fuel: if $1000. annually, yearly increase is $64.00 more.
* Internet: If $65 monthly, yearly increase is $70.00 more.
* Income Tax Prep. If cost is $150 X 2, yearly increase is $21.00 more.
* Legal Fees: for wills, P.Of A., advice, etc. Add 7%, ??? more
* Hockey/Football/Baseball Game Tickets ??? more
* Magazine Subscription: ??? more
* Movie Tickets: one per month X 2, yearly increase is $20.16 more
* Newspapers Subscription: $20 monthly, yrly incr. Is $16.80 more
* Curling Fees: if $600. yearly x 2 is $84.00 more
* Telephone: if $48 monthly, yearly increase is $40.32 more
* Echo Players/Bard to Broadway, Chemainus Theatre Tickets: ??? more
* Vacation Travel: $450 airline ticket X 2, yrly increase $63.00 more
* Veterinarian: Beagle is Family! Add more.
* Vitamins: Add more
* Tim Hortons Coffee: 3 per week X 2, yrly increase is more
Are you ready for the TAX KICK coming?
For just these listed items
NEW TAXES OVER $2,100.00 MORE
Every year
IS THIS A NEW HIDDEN TAX TO HELP PAY FOR THE 2010 OLYMPICS?...you bet it is
THIS TAX IS COMING IN 2010
Sad but true!!
At first I thought this was funny....then I realized the awful truth of it. Be sure to read all the way to the end!
Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table
At which he's fed.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for peanuts
Anyway!
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his my friend i.e. his donkey.
> >>>> >>>>
Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.
> >>>> >>>>
When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.
> >>>> >>>>
Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid.
> >>>> >>>>
Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
To my doom...'
> >>>> >>>>
When he's gone,
Do not relax,
It’s time to apply
The inheritance tax.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
Accounts Receivable Tax
Airline surcharge tax
Airline Fuel Tax
Airport Maintenance Tax
Building Permit Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Death Tax
Dog License Tax
Driving Permit Tax
Environmental Tax (Fee)
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment (UI)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Gasoline Tax (too much)
Gross Receipts Tax
Health Tax
Hunting License Tax
Hydro Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Tax
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Mortgage Tax
Personal Income Tax
Property Tax
Poverty Tax
Prescription Drug Tax
Provincial Income Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Retail Sales Tax
Service Charge Tax
School Tax
Telephone Federal Tax
Telephone Federal, Provincial and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Water Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was one of the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had a large middle class, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
I hope this goes around CANADA at least 100 times!!!!! YOU can help it get there!!!!
GO AHEAD - - - be a CANADIAN !!!!!!!!!!
e!
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Saw Vaughn Palmer being interviewed during the Noon News. He thinks the odds of repealing the HST is an uphill struggle because the NDP who originally passed the legislation designed it in such a way to make to make it virtually impossible to overturn a government's decision. They need at least 10% of the eliigible voters in each riding to sign the petition. He thinks alot of the people who signs the petition will be disqualified because they are either not on the voters list or not residing in the consitutency. VanderZalm claim he has over 5,000 volunteers to canvas the province. Palmer in talking to Election BC says he has less than 2,000
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Saw Vaughn Palmer being interviewed during the Noon News. He thinks the odds of repealing the HST is an uphill struggle because the NDP who originally passed the legislation designed it in such a way to make to make it virtually impossible to overturn a government's decision. They need at least 10% of the eliigible voters in each riding to sign the petition. He thinks alot of the people who signs the petition will be disqualified because they are either not on the voters list or not residing in the consitutency. VanderZalm claim he has over 5,000 volunteers to canvas the province. Palmer in talking to Election BC says he has less than 2,000
Of course if you do not try you have no chance of succeeding. It is bringing alot of attention to this HST issue as I saw in Chillwack last week. Re the numbers of volunteers, they are so back logged at Election BC they have not been able process them all.
Many more to come as many people sign up at the rallies that have and will be held the next while. When we that are out canvassing we are to separate people's signatures onto separate lists depending what riding they were in at the last election.
If nothing else the Liberal party will be decimated in the next election over this issue and of course the Leafs will win the Cup at the same time. ;D ;D ;D
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From a circulating e mail.
Hi folks
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was one of the most prosperous in the world.
We had absolutely no national debt, had a large middle class, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
What happened is everybody wanted free health care, free education, better highways, etc etc. You can blame the politicians but you need to look in the mirror as well. ???
This stuff needs to be paid for folks! Wow, I can't believe I needed to say that..... :D
Sure HST is going to cost you more, although not as much as that narrative is suggesting. The government needs to get the money somewhere. Would you rather they increased the PST? I hear that NS is increasing their PST portion of the HST to 10%. http://money.canoe.ca/money/business/canada/archives/2010/04/20100406-161422.html (http://money.canoe.ca/money/business/canada/archives/2010/04/20100406-161422.html)
Nothing against complaining about higher taxes. Directing your anger at HST which is simpler, less costly to administrate and makes any products manufactured in BC more competitive world wide, makes no sense.
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If nothing else the Liberal party will be decimated in the next election over this issue and of course the Leafs will win the Cup at the same time. ;D ;D ;D
As a fellow Leaf fan I am looking forward to that! (The part about the Leafs winning the cup) ;D
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As a fellow Leaf fan I am looking forward to that! (The part about the Leafs winning the cup) ;D
The Global TV segment on the HST that FA talked about is here.
http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=lks1ujS03qDrHmD7KqtMCmlmxsQuF_FM
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Here is a great graphic showing the difference between PST/GST and HST on a 2x4 you would buy at Home Depot.
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/alwaysfishn/HST_How_It_Works_Web.jpg)
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Are you actually a PAB staffer AF? ;)
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Are you actually a PAB staffer AF? ;)
"PAB" ???
I guess if I don't know what that stands for..... probably answers your question.
What does it stand for? ???
As far as the graphic I put up, I figure if you're going to be anti something you should at least understand what it is. ;D ;D
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Public Affairs Bureau - the 30 million PLUS dollar infomercial and propaganda arm of the Liberals. (Lotta dental work for poor kids in that budget if the tax money was properly prioritized. But we at least know we live in "The Best Place On Earth" ::) You come across as a PAB staffer.Or a really stubborn salesman, that just can't accept NO as an answer ;)
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As a fellow Leaf fan I am looking forward to that! (The part about the Leafs winning the cup) ;D
There goes your credibility ;D
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There goes your credibility ;D
I've always stayed in the closet with that bit of info.....
But I figured with the popularity of Chris and his anti-HST campaign I could let that out and maybe gain some acceptance from the anti-HST'ers! ;D
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Maybe you and Chris can go fishing to discuss the HST further while local fans watch the Canucks in the playoffs ;D ;D
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You see AF, a few of us will remember the introduction of the GST. We were told that everything would be cheaper, our paths littered with flower petals and Canada would be magically transformed into a state of Nirvana. The memory of His Royal Highness, King Mulroney flinging fertilizer all over the peasants is still fresh in my mind! It still brings me moments of delusional ecstasy. I can help you snap out of the same symptoms, but it won't be easy. First you have to focus really hard on reality....... ::)
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You see AF, a few of us will remember the introduction of the GST. We were told that everything would be cheaper, our paths littered with flower petals and Canada would be magically transformed into a state of Nirvana. The memory of His Royal Highness, King Mulroney flinging fertilizer all over the peasants is still fresh in my mind! It still brings me moments of delusional ecstasy. ;D ;D I can help you snap out of the same symptoms, but it won't be easy. First you have to focus really hard on reality....... ::)
Your problem Novabonker is that you are still a dreamer.... You still think that politicians will tell you the truth....and win elections. ??? You and the anti-HST'ers probably experience "moments of delusional ecstasy" when you dream about defeating the HST... :D :D
The last politician I remember telling the truth was Joe Clark when he campaigned that gas would need to go to at least 25 cents a litre because the government needed the revenue. Trudeau, campaigned that this is ridiculous and if we elected him he would never raise gas to 25 cents a liter. He won the election and 6 months later gas prices were higher than the 25 cents Joe Clark had predicted.
That's why the HST should be judged on it's merits rather than on the person, or party that is introducing it. Be more concerned about how much the HST increases over future years whether it's the socialists or the liberals/conservatives running the province. There are some countries that have the VAT (which is the equivalent of the HST) and their VAT rate is as high as 25%.
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I heard hst could conceivably cost a B.C. family of four extra 2100 bucks a year. Can anyone verify this?
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I heard hst could conceivably cost a B.C. family of four extra 2100 bucks a year. Can anyone verify this?
The government says it will be revenue neutral. Meaning that with the HST credits they provide and the PST savings that the businesses pass on, that it won't cost you more than you are paying under the PST/GST system.
I believe it will cost us something extra..... It depends how much a family of four spends. I guarantee it will cost a family that spends $100,000 per year at least twice as much as a family of four that spends $50,000 a year. ;)
I'm not an expert on this, but I hear the anti - HST group is....... ;D
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You know AF, if you're content to sit on a well marbled duff and let the corrupt trash we call leaders (READ BALD ACED LIARS) run the country and province, so be it, but you lose credibility when it comes to belittling the efforts of those of us who want to change the status quo. Whether the initiative succeeds or fails, it's about a group of people that are fed up with bull$hitters and con men getting away with doing what THEY please, lie as they wish, and not represent the will of the constituents that sent them there. You may want to look up the meaning of democracy as you seem to be unable to grasp what this is all about.
The Anti HST group see a gaping deficit in honesty within the Liberals and want to hold their feet to the fire. What do you see wrong with that?
Let's all lie down an accept whatever lies are foisted on us or stand up and be counted. My moral fiber says take the second choice.
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Okay, so it's not so much about the HST as it is about the politicians. Gotcha.
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Novabonker, I am with you.
Just like you, I will do my part and sign the petition, and try to educate as many people as I can to do the same.
I happen to hail from a country with an HST of 23%, and I know what you are talking about.
If there is a constitutional means to abort the HST before it is implemented, by all means, it is our duty as citizens to do what we can to help. The petition is a unique and democratic means for the population to stand up and say ENOUGH!
The HST never has and never will benefit the masses, it only serves those who are already wealthy to become even wealthier (corporations, industrialists, big businesses), by passing the buck to the already dwindling middle class.
In addition, the HST is a federal tax which further undermines our Province's autonomy. Some of you might not give a rat's behind about it, but I sure do. I've seen how federal interference screwed up great Regional initiatives. Examples abound around the world. Educate yourselves. There is NOTHING GOOD in the HST for us, the working stiffs and average Joes.
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Anybody organizing a petition for our MP's whose pension increased bt 10% ?
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The government says it will be revenue neutral. Meaning that with the HST credits they provide and the PST savings that the businesses pass on, that it won't cost you more than you are paying under the PST/GST system.
I believe it will cost us something extra..... It depends how much a family of four spends. I guarantee it will cost a family that spends $100,000 per year at least twice as much as a family of four that spends $50,000 a year. ;)
I'm not an expert on this, but I hear the anti - HST group is....... ;D
A question, if it is to be revenue neutral why are they bringing it in, could they not leave it as it is?
The Lib's are bringing it an attempt to raise billions of dollars to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in. That is why they have added so many new products and services that will now be taxed. We have to pay for the bad decisions they have made the last few years.
They always boast of how we have the lowest tax rate in Canada which they used to help get them elected 3 times. This was mis management and now we are having to make up for this lost revenue.
They have fooled many of us three times including me for 8 years when I was on the local Liberal Riding Association but their rein is now on its last legs, time to give another party a chance. A defeat of Campbell and his band of merry men should show politicians that arrogance and false hoods do not go over with British Columbians. They have lost the trust on so many issues and no longer allow serious input on people's concerns. If you want to see some examples go to http://thecanadian.org/k2
As the saying goes it is politicans themselves that cause their own demise.
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The Anti HST group see a gaping deficit in honesty within the Liberals and want to hold their feet to the fire. What do you see wrong with that?
We could debate the honesty of politicians issue for a long time.... If politicians were "honest" and said they needed to raise taxes in order to balance the budget most people wouldn't vote for them. That's our contribution to creating the kind of politicians we have now.
As a company shareholder I expect the CEO to do whatever is necessary in order to ensure my investment is safe and it grows. As a citizen I expect the premier or PM to do whatever they need to do in order to make sure this country is run on a balanced budget even if it means doing something that they campaigned that they wouldn't do...
I think I do comprehend democracy, that's why I'm representing the pro HST minority. :)
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A question, if it is to be revenue neutral why are they bringing it in, could they not leave it as it is?
The Lib's are bringing it an attempt to raise billions of dollars to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in.
The HST is a simpler tax that costs less to collect. It gets passed to the end user without inflating the price along the way(see home depot 2x4's graphic). This makes the products that we manufacture in BC competitive with provinces that have no PST(Alberta) or provinces that have adopted the HST. It also makes our products more competitive when we sell them internationally. The PST is often a tax on a tax while the HST is a single tax, paid once by the end consumer.
Supposing they left it as PST, what's to stop them from increasing the PST "to get them out of the financial hole they have dug our Province in"?. The problem is every time they increase the PST it makes our BC manufactured products less competitive and we lose sales, BC jobs and tax revenue.
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We could debate the honesty of politicians issue for a long time.... If politicians were "honest" and said they needed to raise taxes in order to balance the budget most people wouldn't vote for them. That's our contribution to creating the kind of politicians we have now.
So we get off our a$$ and demand better. I have no time for being conned.
As a company shareholder I expect the CEO to do whatever is necessary in order to ensure my investment is safe and it grows. As a citizen I expect the premier or PM to do whatever they need to do in order to make sure this country is run on a balanced budget even if it means doing something that they campaigned that they wouldn't do...
I'm not content with liars running amok, nor should any Canadian, and acceptance of that kind of behavior by political hacks highlights how apathetic our society has become. We deserve and should demand better.
I think I do comprehend democracy, that's why I'm representing the pro HST minority. :)
Tough sledding trying to sell that, huh? ;)
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The PST is often a tax on a tax while the HST is a single tax, paid once by the end consumer.
/quote] I guess that means us!!! ::)
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So you'd rather pay PST a bunch of times instead of just once? I prefer to be taxed once.
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(http://gallery.fishbc.com/albums/Ironnoggin/Excessive_Dishonesty_2.jpg)
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What an unfair representation Mr. IronNoggin! Don't you know conditions change? Like the 495 million deficit and "Not A penny more"!
(Wonder how much it would have been without the HST bribe money?)
It was really Ontario's fault!
(Let's declare war on the wild tribes of Ontarians)
It's the single best thing they can do for the economy!
(Yeah! Derail recovery and consumer spending by compounding taxes! BRILLIANT!!)
It wasn't on our radar!
(Time to take the radar to the shop for repairs)
These are all plausible! Now be a good donkey an accept that our version of the sort of truth is not quite as true as the true truth. If you hurry you can lay down and just accept our version of truth, like another poster says we should. After all, when we started cutting programs, the truth program was first to go, as is clearly illustrated by our inspirational actions. The Liberals are a party of conviction(s) , be it lead foot driving or slinging back a few and goin' for a scoot around town.
Sir I DEMAND you retract that post!
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........ Just another opinion, which I may or may not agree with. ;D
HST good policy, bad politics http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/missioncityrecord/opinion/letters/90248492.html (http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/missioncityrecord/opinion/letters/90248492.html)
Tom Fletcher’s column is one of the few grown-up comments I’ve seen about the B.C. HST. I would emphasize two substantive issues and one process issue.
As you mentioned, the HST raises revenue from income tax evaders; the more they spend on high-end services – mani-pedis, expensive hair treatments, heli-skiing, and so on – the more tax is collected, especially compared to the extra $15 a year I’ll pay in HST on haircuts!
The second issue is that unlike income tax, there is no refund for prior years’ consumption taxes so governments don’t have the double whammy in recessions of both lower current taxes but also refunds from capital loss and business tax loss carrybacks.
The anti-HST crowd have much in common with the Tea Party rabble in the United States - the only group which answers YES to a poll which asks if they support a) lower taxes b) lower government spending and c) more government services! Bill Vander Zalm and the BC NDP are taking a juvenile unprincipled stand against an efficient revenue raiser needed to reduce deficits.
The Federal Conservatives poisoned the well – and created the federal budget deficit – by reducing the GST, a terrible policy move criticized by all tax analysts. The B.C. Liberals are in the unenviable position of implementing the HST, good policy but bad politics, necessary to prepare for higher health care spending in the next two decades.
Don Miller
Nanaimo
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So I guess, so much of what is said is true from both sides, myself, not a fan of the Liberals, and thier business buddy system. If it was legitimate business dealings, then so be it, but based on the number of Liberals with positions in IPP's, I suspect it isn't.
We have seen and heard of nothing but lies for, let me seeeeHmmmm, how long have they been in power for?? Any how, when the Liberals took over, it was going to be about sound fiscal management and no epic cost overruns (unlike those union pandering, ferry building...), above board (No undercover deals for these boys, no siree, no railways for sale here to balance budgets),straight shooting (we will not sell you out to American corporations for hydro) etc. Well we know this has simply not been true so far...things could change in the future, but probably not.
Okay, I'm finished ranting,
so here is the point in this argument I would like to bring up. During the "good times" when business was booming, and transactions were fast and furious, when apparently any business man could have told you 6 or 8 years ago "we need to streamline our tax system" and increase our profits, was there any initiative then? When we could have been socking away money from the revenues generated by natural gas, and other resources the Liberals say they created through their sound business mangement, what has happened? Let...me...seeeee, oh right, a deficit, not even the debt, but a deficit of... what is it this year so far, I cant even remember any more, it keeps changing. In an atmosphere of a booming world economy, they somehow managed to get us worse off than when they took over. Hey, not a fan of NDP politics either and they had the collapse of Pacific rim economies to contend with back then (a major for BC business too)l but I simply dont see how this province is in any better shape at the moment then when NDP was at the helm. I'm paying more to live now, with no relief in sight, but in fact higher costs. We pay top wages to MLA's and senior civil servents, who are supposed to be the best and capable talent (in thier own words), yet even I could raise taxes as a means to stimulate business and try to keep up with deficit, (and I'll work for half their yearly salary and pension...so elect me next time) this is not rocket science, these guys make TOP DOLLAR to run this province, with gold plated pensions, and portions of their income tax free, now is the time to earn it, so its time for them to try thinking outside the box or get out of office. Raising taxes is not the only answer. If we no longer have the high transactions being processed in business, lets try cutting the services that supported these transactions in the govt. Where have we seen reductions in processes? The HST is a actually a good thought, but reduction of bureacracy for businesses should not come to us as costs to us as citizens. If the harmonization of taxes so great, then do it without a cost to us...the citizens, this great hamonization should pay for itself, while at the same time stimulating business to operate with greater efficiency, but quit asking me to pay for it, if the improvement of the process cant pay for it self, it isn't really an improvment...IS IT?
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........ Just another opinion, which I may or may not agree with. ;D
HST good policy, bad politics http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/missioncityrecord/opinion/letters/90248492.html (http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/missioncityrecord/opinion/letters/90248492.html)
Tom Fletcher’s column is one of the few grown-up comments I’ve seen about the B.C. HST. I would emphasize two substantive issues and one process issue.
As you mentioned, the HST raises revenue from income tax evaders; the more they spend on high-end services – mani-pedis, expensive hair treatments, heli-skiing, and so on – the more tax is collected, especially compared to the extra $15 a year I’ll pay in HST on haircuts!
The second issue is that unlike income tax, there is no refund for prior years’ consumption taxes so governments don’t have the double whammy in recessions of both lower current taxes but also refunds from capital loss and business tax loss carrybacks.
The anti-HST crowd have much in common with the Tea Party rabble in the United States - the only group which answers YES to a poll which asks if they support a) lower taxes b) lower government spending and c) more government services! Bill Vander Zalm and the BC NDP are taking a juvenile unprincipled stand against an efficient revenue raiser needed to reduce deficits.
The Federal Conservatives poisoned the well – and created the federal budget deficit – by reducing the GST, a terrible policy move criticized by all tax analysts. The B.C. Liberals are in the unenviable position of implementing the HST, good policy but bad politics, necessary to prepare for higher health care spending in the next two decades.
Don Miller
Nanaimo
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/60078965545d499a01ce95.gif)
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(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/60078965545d499a01ce95.gif)
I think I recognize that song.............
Isn't that the "Fight the HST" anthem? ;D ;D ;D
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For those in Maple Ridge that want to sign the petition you can go to the seniors center on Sunday April 11 between 11am and 1:30pm. The center is located on 224th street and the north side of Dewdney trunk road.
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I think I recognize that song.............
Isn't that the "Fight the HST" anthem? ;D ;D ;D
Actually it was a comment on your salesmanship ..... ;) I guess another Liberal resigned yesterday under a cloud.Who'd of thought? :o
Read this....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/selling-the-hst/article1528476/
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I read the globe article. Here's one of the interesting tidbits I found.
"Last month, an Angus Reid online poll found 77 per cent of British Columbian's oppose the HST."
Uh Oh..... it appears the numbers are slipping :o :o Didn't Vanderzalm say 85% of the voters in BC were against it?
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I read the globe article. Here's one of the interesting tidbits I found.
"Last month, an Angus Reid online poll found 77 per cent of British Columbian's oppose the HST."
Uh Oh..... it appears the numbers are slipping :o :o Didn't Vanderzalm say 85% of the voters in BC were against it?
Just a little better than one in four? Seems pretty obvious to anyone that believes in DEMOCRACY that the will of the CITIZENS is being ignored by His Arrogance. As you pointed out, the initiative is non binding, but the recall campaign that will follow is going to be. Maybe a few of the zombies will show some fortitude and not support this lunacy. But we know what happens to any who aren't "YES! men".
"If you feed enough oats to the horse, some will pass through to feed the sparrows" ;D
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Got my kit today and I cannot believe how many people are so eager to sign. ;D ;D ;D
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Got my kit today and I cannot believe how many people are so eager to sign. ;D ;D ;D
77% of the people, according to the last count. But the numbers are dropping..... ;D
Seriously though, Good luck Chris! This is democracy at work.
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77% of the people, according to the last count. But the numbers are dropping..... ;D
Seriously though, Good luck Chris! This is democracy at work.
Thanks, let me know if you change your mind, I should still have a space left for you to sign. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks, let me know if you change your mind, I should still have a space left for you to sign. ;D ;D ;D
I don't believe alwaysfishn is a registered voter.... :D
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I don't believe alwaysfishn is a registered voter.... :D
That's too bad as we should always insure we are registered so we can exercise our franchise as that is what democracy is all about.
I am amazed how many people want to sign the petition, more than I thought. I will reach my goal of two hundred in no time flat and I am so excited about it I may go for more. ;D ;D ;D
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I am astonished as well on the response for the opposition to this plan.
Amazing how the grouping of people may have a change. Congratulations to the people of white rock for an astonishing reversal of thought.
STOP. Save Tomorrow Oppose Politicians.
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If I came to you today & said "Hey buddy take out your wallet...now open it...ok now give me those $50 dollar bills...come on more more....thanks see ya in a few months...."
You would be "hot under the collar".
Well this is exactly what HST does. More money out of your wallet. PERIOD. (more things will be taxed)
If ya don't want the gov. to say..."Hey buddy take out your wallet...now open it...ok...etc......"......... then say no to this HST.
Talk about sea lice.....we have tax lice on our bodies & more want to attach themselves....
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Gosh I am starting to feel like a celebrity as everywhere I go wearing my anti HST button I am approached by people wanting to sign the petiition, I am quickly running out of sheets.
I am getting more attention than when I have my Maple Leaf hat on. ;D ;D ;D
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Is there an official online petition that I can add my name to that anyone knows of that actually counts?
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Is there an official online petition that I can add my name to that anyone knows of that actually counts?
No and you have to sign on the Election BC petition for the riding you are registered in.
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The "Longest Political Suicide Note In History"(I like that one) continues.....
*NDP take 18 point lead in polls
*81% want to sign the petition
There you go AF- the good fight is back over 80%. ;)
Now the idiot trust is scrambling to put out the word - with OUR tax money of course- by a nice, shiny flyer. I hope it's as soft as Charmin, but I'll never know because it's already full of $*%#, albeit of the unnuetered male bovine variety. The claim that we just don't understand leaves me nearly speechless. I think most get it. A tax shift from the already beleaguered citizenry to business. You can put lipstick, mascara, eyeliner, sexy underwear and a short skirt on it and it's still a pig. One of the next steps is to go out and buy an economist to write a paper that "supports" the Fiberal position.That's already been tried and it was discovered that the same author wrote a paper on the opposite side of the track. Guess he can't make up his mind. Dr. Jack Mintz seems willing to write a postive spin on anything for a buck.He got paid $12000 of OUR money to produce a 12 page report. $1000 a page for cheerleading to a losing side. HYPOCRITE FOR HIRE! HYPOCRITE FOR HIRE!There appears to be a complete inability by Gordo and his band of renown to grasp THE PUBLIC DOES NOT NOW OR WILL THEY LIKELY EVER SUPPORT THIS. The funny thing is the political collateral the Liberals had before this is eroding faster than the clay banks of the Veddar after 2 weeks of rain. The stunning betrayals to the restaurant and land developers show these buffoons are starting to eat their own and are as treacherous as legally possible. And illegally possible with the amount of clouds over their heads right now IE Kash Heed, BC Rail trial, the emerging casino scandal,John Les etc.
And after the petition succeeds, and it will:
RECALL
It's time the government represented the citizens and not their buddies. No more scheming to cover their arses from poor fiscal management. (Balanced budget law ::)) Think how big the hole would be if the fed money was pulled from the budget. "450 million maximum" miass :o There's liars and there's damned liars and delusional damned liars.........
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And after the petition succeeds, and it will:
RECALL
Unfortunately once you sign the petition you will be disappointed; as the petition (if successful) only gives the anti's the right to force the government to exercise 1 of 2 options....
1. Force the government to introduce the bill attached to the petition. Wonder how many Liberals will vote for the bill? ???
The 10% of the voters that sign the petition are stanch NDPer's and wouldn't vote for the Liberals in an election anyway.
2. The government can choose to allow it to go to a peoples referendum in September 2011 at a huge cost to the taxpayers. If 50% of the registered voters vote for the bill then it becomes law(no HST). Highly unlikely outcome as barely 50% of the registered voters even show up for a general election.
So........ Your glee is probably a little premature. Although the law allowing this type of petition seems to give a lot of power to the people, it's just smoke and mirrors.
The government of the day (NDP)that passed this law didn't want to give it too much bite in case it was used against them. ???
I don't want to rain on your parade....... On the other hand I think you should be aware that your efforts are rather a waste....
So "Good Luck" with your campaign.... :D
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And if they do win, aside from the cost to tax payers for the referendum, don't forget to add another nearly $2billion to the deficit, as that is what will have to be returned to the federal government. The NDP are sweating that one right now, because they don't want to be the party responsible for having to return that money and saddle the BC tax payers with another $2billion in debt.
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And if they do win, aside from the cost to tax payers for the referendum, don't forget to add another nearly $2billion to the deficit, as that is what will have to be returned to the federal government. The NDP are sweating that one right now, because they don't want to be the party responsible for having to return that money and saddle the BC tax payers with another $2billion in debt.
There's other ways to raise the revenue. Read back a few pages and I came up with a few ideas. The Pubic Affairs Bureau or the the taxpayer funded liberal propaganda machine costs over 30 million a year. Cut the size of the biggest and most bloated (no I'm not referring the Rich Coleman) cabinet in history.Reintroduce the cut off for luxury tax on automobiles. Stop giving money away and stop subsidizing profitable business - 120 million alone to oil companies (I guess they're not all that profitable. ::)) AF liked this one- Legalize marijuana and tax the daylights out of it- Seems to be coming down the pipe in California, why not here? That revenue stream alone would balance the budget.Raise the PST one cent. Tax profits taken out of this jurisdiction. Raise traffic fines to double what they are now. Open your eyes and look around- there's other ways to do this without lies and sellouts to the feds.Unfortunately once you sign the petition you will be disappointed; as the petition (if successful) only gives the anti's the right to force the government to exercise 1 of 2 options....
1. Force the government to introduce the bill attached to the petition. Wonder how many Liberals will vote for the bill? ???
The 10% of the voters that sign the petition are stanch NDPer's and wouldn't vote for the Liberals in an election anyway.
2. The government can choose to allow it to go to a peoples referendum in September 2011 at a huge cost to the taxpayers. If 50% of the registered voters vote for the bill then it becomes law(no HST). Highly unlikely outcome as barely 50% of the registered voters even show up for a general election.
So........ Your glee is probably a little premature. Although the law allowing this type of petition seems to give a lot of power to the people, it's just smoke and mirrors.
The government of the day (NDP)that passed this law didn't want to give it too much bite in case it was used against them. ???
I don't want to rain on your parade....... On the other hand I think you should be aware that your efforts are rather a waste....
So "Good Luck" with your campaign.... :D
You were doing OK AF up until now, but you're not understanding the anger that's associated with the codswallop. According to your post,only 10% will sign and they're all NDP.
BUT WAIT!
81% polled said they want to sign, so I guess a mass conversion to NDPism is underway!
In the narrowly won ridings, I feel the anger about this betrayal would be enough to initiate recall . These yesmenandwomen were sent to Victoria to represent the constituents and not King Gordo, something that maybe they need to be reminded of and if reminders include losing your seat, so be it.
Funny how both you and the above poster feign concern about the cost- Democracy isn't cheap, but the alternative is to let idiots, lie, manipulate, loot and plunder while we grovel for table scraps. I'm not the only one that's fed up with the bull$*^t. Much like a boil, this has formed a head. Time to squeeze it and rid the province of the pus.
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Raise the PST one cent.
Not too many arguments with some of the stuff you are suggesting but when you make statements like this one, it shows you just don't understand the difference between PST and HST. Let me repeat, the PST is an inflationary tax that makes products more expensive to produce in a jurisdiction that has PST versus a jurisdiction that does not have PST. If you don't understand that concept then the rest of the discussions are pointless. HST levels the playing field. Having the PST let alone increasing the PST makes the products produced in BC less competitive with products produced outside of BC. By suggesting that the PST be raised you are already accepting a tax increase! On the other hand you are mad at the "Lying Liberals" because they want to put in a more logical tax system and in the process raise a little more tax revenue. ???
81% polled said they want to sign, so I guess a mass conversion to NDPism is underway!
Com'on Novabonker, Where do you get this stuff? At least post a link to support your statements. Then we can judge the statement on the basis of who wrote it. Right now I'm suggesting you are making this stuff up. As far as I've read there was only one poll done and it asked if people agreed with or opposed, harmonizing the PST and GST. http://www.globaltvbc.com/Ipsos+Reid+Global+News+Poll/1863303/story.html (http://www.globaltvbc.com/Ipsos+Reid+Global+News+Poll/1863303/story.html) This is a poll taken at the beginning of August 2009, shortly after the HST was announced and well before anyone even understood HST.
It would be interesting to see the poll results if the question was "Do you support a one percent increase in the PST rather than implementing the HST?"
The point is nobody likes more taxes, especially if they come with a new name. "Any poll that asks people whether they like a tax is going to show they don't -- no one likes taxes." http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vast+majority+people+Ontario+oppose+poll/2306934/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Vast+majority+people+Ontario+oppose+poll/2306934/story.html)
Don't read into it as much as Vanderzalm is reading into it. When it comes down to a vote people consider more than just one issue.
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http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010.04.17_Politics_BC.pdf
Yep - your right. I'll just BOHICA. ::) Not this time. You're selling air conditioning in Inuvik in January to supplement your ice sales. Nothing you've posted has made me even have a quiver of doubt that this is going to continue to snowball. I live in LiberalLand, North Vancouver. The campaign is rolling along very well with around 1300 and climbing to the threshold of 3700 rapidly and take into consideration there isn't a high visibility of canvassers here yet. The goal is to over achieve each riding by at least 5%, with the extras parachuting in to aid the areas with lower returns. You may not like it, but this going to be messier than molasses wrestling. But You should know - denial is not A RIVER. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for posting the link!
I had a nice lady knock on my door this afternoon asking if I would sign her HST petition. She left disappointed, but probably a little more informed.
Just trying to do my part to educate the uninformed.
Did I mention that she seemed like a very nice lady? .....although she did lean a lot to the left when she walked. ;D
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Thanks for posting the link!
I had a nice lady knock on my door this afternoon asking if I would sign her HST petition. She left disappointed, but probably a little more informed.
Just trying to do my part to educate the uninformed.
Did I mention that she seemed like a very nice lady? .....although she did lean a lot to the left when she walked. ;D
Good for you! I got my canvasser application today from the nice gentleman in Lynn Valley. Geez in 20 minutes on an early Sunday morning he had collected 30 signatures! He was standing straight and tall, like all HONEST people normally do. It will be my pleasure to educate whomever I run into that isn't brainwashed by the blarney or buying barrels of bullspit. ;)
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HOT OFF THE PRESS!!!!
Apparently there will be a legal challenge if the government follows through with the flyer campaign. Elections BC and the RCMP have been asked to investigate.
Seems they just step out of one pile and right into another bigger one.
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HOT OFF THE PRESS!!!!
???
It'll make more sense if you post a link!
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glowbull tv- It seems that the government is breaking elections BC rules by not having some form of intervener status. It can lead to criminal charges, but that's nothing new for the Liberals. ;D ;D ;D The snowball keeps growing!
and I'll even give a tip on the next scandal - who paid for Olympic accommodations for the Libs...... I have some inside knowledge from my work on this one and it's going to be messy..... When you put your hands in the cookie jar, make sure you wash your hands and wipe for prints ;). Seems that building a house of cards won't work in a windstorm.
Here's the first of many more issues around this to come. Had enough corruption yet?
http://thetyee.ca/News/2010/04/19/MinisterHotelTab/
UPDATES -
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/04/19/bc-government-hst-pamphlets-illegal.html
According to Elections BC: "An individual or organization who wishes to oppose an initiative petition and intends to incur expenses in their opposition campaign must apply to register as either an opponent or as an initiative advertising sponsor."
There were no opponents registered to the HST initiative campaign by the March 8 deadline, according to Elections BC.
Now there's a way to save us some money.... ;D ;D ;D
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Some clarification notes on HST.
1. You may have heard “The HST adds $2,100 to your yearly costs”
a. You would need to spend an additional $30,000 on currently PST-exempt items to reach $2,100
b. For a Family of 4 with a $60,000 annual income the true impact is $8.91 per month.
c. A Senior Couple with a $30,000 income will be impacted by an additional $1 per year.
d. A Family of 4 with a $90,000 income will be impacted by an additional $14.83 per month.
e. A Family of 4 with a $30,000 income will actually benefit by $44.58 per month (because of the BC HST Credit)
2. You may have heard “Everything will cost more”
The vast majority of retail items will see no tax change with HST
Items on which you pay PST and GST today stay exactly the same. (7%PST + 5%GST = 12% HST)
a. New cars, trucks, boats, recreational vehicles
b. Furniture
c. Electronics
d. Kitchenware
e. Toiletries
f. Hardware and tools
g. Adults clothing
h. Pet Food
3. You may have heard “Housing will cost more”
a. No HST on used homes which make up 80% of total sales in BC
b. HST rebate will apply on new homes up to $525,000 – maximum $26,250
c. Homes above $525,000 are eligible for a rebate of $26,250
d. In BC - 73% of home sales are under $500,000
e. In Northern BC 99% of home sell for less than $500,000
4. You may have heard “You’ll pay more for car insurance, home insurance…”
The HST won’t change the price of any of those items. They are exempt.
5. You may have heard “Staying warm and keeping the lights on will cost more”
Home heating fuels and residential electricity are eligible for a point-of-sale rebate, including:
a. Oil
b. Natural gas
c. Propane
d. Wood and wood pellets
HST won’t increase the cost of heating or powering your home
6. You may have heard “It will cost more to feed my family”
These are ALL zero rated –
a. basic groceries such as milk, bread, and vegetables.
b. agricultural products such as grain, raw wool, and dried tobacco leaves.
c. most farm livestock.
d. most fishery products such as fish for human consumption.
e. prescription drugs and drug-dispensing fees (in case you buy these at the grocery pharmacy).
The general rule of thumb is – if there is currently GST on any item at the grocery store then HST will apply.
7. You may have heard “The disabled will be impacted by additional cost for medical devices”
These Medical devices are zero-rated:
(a) hearing aids
(b) heart-monitoring devices
(c) hospital beds
(d) breathing apparatus
(e) asthmatic devices
(f) prescription eyeglasses/contact lenses
(g) artificial eyes
(h) artificial teeth such as dentures, crowns and bridges, orthodontic appliances
(i) aids to locomotion such as a chair, commode chair, walker, wheelchair lift or other aid to locomotion for use by an individual with a disability
(j) patient lifters
(k) wheelchair ramp; portable wheelchair ramp
(l) modifying motor vehicles to adapt the vehicle for the transportation of an individual using a wheelchair
(m) prescription orthotic and orthopedic devices
(n) prosthesis/devices
(o) canes or crutches
(p) articles for blind individuals
(q) guide dogs for blind individuals and hearing ear dogs
(r) supplies and services related to medical and assistive devices.
8. You may have heard “Children’s clothes and items will increase”
Children’s clothing and items below will not be subject to the provincial portion (7%) of the HST or HST exempt
(a) Children's clothing designed for babies, girls, and boys up to and including girls' Canada Standard Size 16 and boys' Canada Standard Size 20, or clothing designated for girls and boys in sizes small, medium or large if the clothing does not have a designated Canada Standard Size would be eligible for point-of-sale rebate. This would not include costumes or clothing like sports protective equipment.
(b) Children’s footwear designed for babies, girls, and boys up to and including girls' size 6 and boys' size 6, including footwear without a numerical size that is designated for girls or boys in sizes small, medium or large would be eligible for point-of-sale rebate. This would not include skates, rollerblades, ski-boots, footwear that has cleats, or similar footwear.
(c) Diapers, including cloth and disposable diapers designed for babies and children, and diaper inserts and liners, rubber pants, and training pants would be eligible for point-of-sale rebate. Incontinence products would be zero-rated under HST, in accordance with current GST rules.
(d) Children's car seats and car booster seats that are restraint systems or booster cushions that conform with Transport Canada's safety requirements for Standards 213, 213.1, 213.2 and 213.5, as described under the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act would be eligible for point-of-sale rebate.
9. You may have heard "Education costs are going to increase including my child’s music lessons”
Educational services such as courses supplied by a vocational school leading to a certificate or a diploma which allows the practice of a trade or a vocation, or tutoring services made to an individual in a course that follows a curriculum designated by a school authority; music lessons are not taxable.
10. You may have heard “HST will hurt small business”
HST will be good for business. It will replace hidden sale tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.
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Item 10 alone should make people sit up and take notice. Sadly, people are too wrapped up in politics rather than economics and are blind to the reality that this tax makes sense.
As an aside, alwaysfishn, you might want to edit item 10 to make it easier to read. The code is making it cumbersome.
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HST critics need to take a closer look at crumbling PST
A column from today’s VancouverSun by SFU professor Jon Kesselman on the advantages of the Harmonized Sales Tax, as well as a link to his full report in the BC Business Council publication Policy Perspectives
http://www.bcbc.com/Documents/ppv17n2.pdf (http://www.bcbc.com/Documents/ppv17n2.pdf)
Vancouver Sun
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
Page A02
By Jon Kesselman
Four out of five British Columbians in a recent survey expressed a willingness to sign the petition to repeal the harmonized sales tax. Many groups and opposition parties have cited deficiencies of the impending sales tax reform. But in failing to propose any alternative to the HST, they have accepted the notion that British Columbia's existing retail sales tax is a relatively desirable tax.
After all their publicly bandied criticism of the HST -- much of it misinformed and misconceived -- opponents of this tax reform need to justify retention of the PST. It's time for the public spotlight to be turned from the HST to the PST. In fact, B.C.'s PST is seriously flawed and economically damaging, and whatever its potential shortcomings, the HST will be superior in almost every respect.
A common adage is that "an old tax is a good tax." B.C.'s PST is not only an old tax but an antiquated and outmoded tax. The format is used in only five Canadian provinces (just three after Ontario and B.C. replace their sales taxes mid-year) and 45 of the 50 U.S. states. Almost every other country has long since abandoned retail sales taxes and adopted a value-added tax format like Canada's GST.
Moreover, no country besides Canada simultaneously employs two such divergent forms of sales tax at the national and sub-national levels. Retention of the PST in B.C. would leave the province's businesses with an unnecessary $150 million of tax compliance costs each year, which push up product prices for all consumers. Retaining the PST would also leave the provincial government burdened with annual costs of $30 million for administration plus $50 million for vendor compensation.
These operational costs will be eliminated with the move to an HST, thus helping to preserve public services and/or resist pressures for tax hikes. In addition, repealing the HST would deprive the B.C. treasury of $1.6 billion in federal transfers made to facilitate harmonization. Opponents of the HST have not told us how they would make up those lost revenues: raise taxes (and which ones) or cut public spending (and on which services)?
Even worse than these financial impacts of repealing the HST, keeping the PST would continue to act as a drag on B.C. economic prosperity. B.C. has one of the weakest records among Canadian provinces in growth of investment, productivity, and wages, which research studies link to the PST burden on businesses. Nearly 40 per cent of the $5 billion in annual PST revenues falls directly on business rather than consumers.
Non-partisan panels of economic experts have identified provincial retail sales taxes as one of the most damaging public policies in terms of productivity growth. In this context, harmonization's estimated onetime impact on the consumer price level of 0.7 of one per cent will be a bargain in return for many years of increased growth in jobs and real wages. How many HST opponents would turn down this exchange if they understood it?
The existing PST imposes a heavier burden on the poor and near-poor than the impending HST with its companion refundable tax credits. For example, a childless couple with income of $30,000 (above the poverty line) will gain by a couple of hundred dollars per year after netting their HST tax credits against their slightly higher living costs.
In contrast, retaining the PST will continue to impose large but hidden tax burdens not only on the poor but on all consumers. The $1.9 billion in PST paid directly by businesses gets built into the competitive prices that they must charge consumers.
As a consequence of these embedded business taxes, products that are nominally tax-exempt under the PST actually bear positive effective tax rates. All goods and services now carrying a seven per cent rate of PST have effective tax rates exceeding seven per cent. With the shift to the HST, these embedded taxes will disappear through rebates to businesses for the taxes they pay on their inputs, so that B.C.'s tax rate will be a true and uniform seven per cent for consumers.
Apparently, HST opponents prefer to pay their taxes in hidden, covert ways rather than in the highly visible manner of a value-added tax. B.C.'s move to harmonize its sales tax with the federal GST provokes the same misunderstandings and opposition as arose with the 1991 shift of the hidden federal manufacturers' sales tax to the highly visible GST.
Before casting their stones against the impending HST, critics should take a closer look at the decrepit and crumbling structure called the retail sales tax -- the tax that they are implicitly supporting.
Jon Kesselman holds the Canada research chair in public finance with the graduate public policy program at Simon Fraser University.
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Why people are fed up with your Liberals Alwaysfishin.
Premier's bid to save face put Liberals on their HST road to ruin
Election budget projections changed drastically two days after election
By Vaughn Palmer, Vancouver SunApril 21, 2010 -As the B.C. Liberals reel from the backlash over the harmonized sales tax, their troubles can be traced back to a meeting that took place just two days after they won the last provincial election.
May 14, 2009. Deputy Finance Minister Graham Whitmarsh was providing Finance Minister Colin Hansen with a postelection update on the budget. Premier Gordon Campbell stopped by for a listen.
"A relatively casual meeting," as Campbell recalled it later. But the contents were anything but casual in terms of their impact on his third term of government.
"During that meeting was the first time that I heard that the projected, forecast deficit was going to be probably in excess of a billion dollars -- between $1.1 billion and $1.3 billion," the premier advised the legislature during debate last fall.
Campbell was taken aback. "I was very concerned about getting those numbers. I actually said to them: 'Why am I getting these numbers now?' "
The Liberals had tabled a budget with a deficit of $495 million. Many observers thought the figure was low-balled. But Campbell had insisted, as recently as the halfway mark of the campaign, that the number was a "maximum."
Now he was hearing that the deficit would be more than twice as hefty. And this just six weeks into the financial year.
It must have brought back memories of Campaign 1996 and the then victorious New Democratic Party government having to admit, just weeks after the election, that it was going to miss its budget target.
Campbell had exploited that so-called "fudge-it budget" scandal to lay waste to the NDP's credibility. He wasn't going to let the current version of the NDP do the same to him.
The finance ministry officials got their marching orders. "Go out and find out how we're going to meet the budget target of $495 million," the premier told them. "It was a relatively rapid meeting ... that work was commenced immediately on May 14."
Indeed it was. On the very next day, according to documents obtained recently under federal access to information legislation, Glen Armstrong, the provincial head of tax policy, contacted his federal counterpart to request information about the harmonized sales tax.
An obvious line of inquiry. The province had already tapped the available sources in its own budget, cutting travel, consulting contracts, grants and other forms of discretionary spending.
But Ottawa was offering "transition funding" to provinces that agreed to harmonize their provincial sales taxes with the federal goods and services tax. Ontario, which signed on earlier in the year, was in line for more than $4 billion. B.C.'s take on a per-capita basis would be $1.6 billion.
Genuine cash money. And more than enough of it to keep Campbell from looking ridiculous on the deficit, or so it must have seemed at the time.
Ten days after that initial inquiry, Hansen sidled up to his federal counterpart, Jim Flaherty, during a meeting of the country's finance ministers and confided that B.C. was reconsidering its long-standing opposition to harmonization.
Not just on his own initiative. Campbell backed him fully.
"Before the meeting, he said that he thought that we should be reconsidering our position with regard to HST," the premier recalled. "I said, 'Fine ... Find out what they're reaching in terms of an agreement between the federal government and Ontario, and see whether or not that would apply to British Columbia'."
Following the contact at the ministerial level, provincial officials determined that yes, if B.C. harmonized, it could expect equivalent terms to those being negotiated with Ontario, including a tidy sum of federal dollars.
Campbell kept a close eye on the talks. "I had a number of discussions with the minister of finance once he commenced having discussions with federal officials around the end of May."
By the time the cabinet was sworn in on June 10, harmonization was already in the works. Hansen, after taking the oath of office for another stint as finance minister, made a point of telling reporters that the government was still confident of the $495-million deficit. Meaning (as he admitted later), "I knew that I would be recommending the HST to my cabinet colleagues."
The HST didn't end up on the cabinet agenda for a decision until mid-July. By then, further deterioration in revenues (including bad news from Ottawa on income and corporate tax receipts) meant that even with the HST transition money, B.C. couldn't hope to hit Maximum Gordon's deficit target.
But also by then, the HST had acquired its own momentum. Ontario was doing it. The reduced tax burden would help the resource and export industries. The transition money would move the province back to balanced budgets sooner than without it.
"It was a cabinet decision," Campbell would say later. His ministers surely went along with him, as they always do. But the starting point on this particular road to ruin was May 14, when the premier ordered the finance ministry to find the money that would allow him to save face on the deficit.
vpalmer@vancouversun.com
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Thanks Alwaysfishin for your clarifiaction notes on the HST but will you now please list the new items that we will be paying the HST on. Please donot be like the Liberals who play dodgeball when they are asked this same question by the official opposition. ::)
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http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/04/12/AgainstTheOdds/index.html
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Why people are fed up with your Liberals Alwaysfishin.
.............
I thought we were talking about HST?
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Thanks Alwaysfishin for your clarifiaction notes on the HST but will you now please list the new items that we will be paying the HST on. Please donot be like the Liberals who play dodgeball when they are asked this same question by the official opposition. ::)
There have been all kinds of lists that have been posted on this thread already, so we don't need another one. :D
The best way to determine how much it will cost you Chris, is to make a list of all the items that you plan on purchasing this coming year that are currently tax exempt. You also need to calculate the additional HST/GST credit you'll be receiving. And for true comparative purposes calculate how much income tax you pay versus what you would pay if you lived in another province.
That is a realistic way of determining the cost to you of the HST. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised!
The Vanderzalm fear-mongering is just that. It's totally irrelevant to what an individual like you or I will be paying with the HST!
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/04/12/AgainstTheOdds/index.html (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/04/12/AgainstTheOdds/index.html)
Thanks for the link Chris, interesting read..... ::)
quote:
"One thing, though, is certain: Vander Zalm has given up none of the views that previously got him into trouble. "The premier’s problem," concluded Hughes in his report on the Fantasy Gardens affair, "stems not just from his inability to draw a line between his private and public life, but in his apparently sincere belief that no conflict existed so long as the public wasn’t aware of what was going on."
Asked last week what he had learned from that experience, Vander Zalm said: "I made a mistake selecting someone in the bureaucracy to be judge over me. That was a real boner." He admits no other regrets. "My values," he adds, "haven’t changed."
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VICTORIA – Those of us old enough to remember the introduction of the GST in 1991 can find a warm feeling of nostalgia in today’s political argument over its logical extension, the HST.
No wait, that’s not nostalgia. It’s nausea.
Then-prime minister Brian Mulroney’s “hated” GST was proposed to be nine per cent, then brought in at seven amid a storm of unfocused outrage. It was sure to destroy the country, or whatever was left of it after the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Mulroney handed off to B.C.’s own Kim Campbell, too late. Jean Chrétien’s Liberals crushed the Progressive Conservatives in 1993, chiefly by promising to replace the GST with a better tax, or a fairer tax, or something. They floated an alternative, aptly named BST, but it was all just a show for the poor dumb folks.
Here’s how dumb Canada was, not even 20 years ago. The GST replaced a 14-per-cent manufacturers’ sales tax that was imposed on our own industries, but not on imports. Then we stood around in our dirt-glazed lumberjack shirts, Molson stubbies in hand, and wondered why were still hewing wood and drawing water for the world.
Now B.C. voters tell pollsters they’re going to give the Kim Campbell treatment to Gordon Campbell, and elect the NDP to keep taxes down. A radio station does person-in-the-street interviews. Two out of three people don’t know what the HST is. The third is against it.
Unlike Chrétien, NDP leader Carole James doesn’t promise to repeal the HST, at least not right away. We’re stuck with it for five years, she says. The best bet is to stop it now, even though the province can’t change a federal law.
NDP MLAs have awkwardly joined up with Bill Vander Zalm’s petition drive, in the great tradition of running to the front of the day’s parade. They did it with the carbon tax too. They’ve turned into a reactionary force, confronting a flood of B.C. Liberal innovations, with none of their own.
No one really knows what a successful petition would mean, although the best guess is, not much.
Vander Zalm doesn’t promote an NDP government. That would be a hill too far even for him. He made a career out of fighting Ottawa, over the GST, abortion and French on corn flakes boxes, and this is more of the same.
At anti-HST rallies around the province, Vander Zalm talks openly about a conspiracy to impose global government. Canada’s doing the HST, they’ll talk U.S. President Barack Obama into it, and the next thing you know we’ll be merged with the European Union and B.C.’s tax rate will be set not in Ottawa, but in Brussels.
Vander Zalm says the HST will once again till the soil for a third provincial party, presumably the B.C. Conservatives under his sidekick Chris Delaney. (Chris who? Never mind.)
In 1999, Vander Zalm ran for the fledgling Reform B.C. in a Delta South by-election and was trounced by Val Roddick. He entered politics in the 1970s claiming to be both a federal and provincial Liberal, presumably because that was the vehicle he found with the keys in it.
Here’s the central reason that B.C. in 2010 needs to move to a consumption tax. The baby boomers are retiring. There won’t be enough people paying income tax to support them. This is not a prediction. As the engineer aboard the Titanic said, it is a mathematical certainty.
You might want to check the rising water before you sign a petition.
Tom Fletcher is legislative reporter and columnist for Black Press and BCLocalnews.com.
tfletcher@blackpress.ca
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Provincial web site on the HST and I cannot seem to see a list posted on what new products and services will now be subject to the HST. It amazes me they say all the false information the ant HST camp is saying but they will not post the information many of us would like to see. What are they are they afraid of? :o
http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/
I had hoped alwaysfishn would have posted them for us as I know he is an honorable gentleman but maybe he can not find the official list either.
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Provincial web site on the HST and I cannot seem to see a list posted on what new products and services will now be subject to the HST. It amazes me they say all the false information the ant HST camp is saying but they will not post the information many of us would like to see. What are they are they afraid of? :o
http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/
I had hoped alwaysfishn would have posted them for us as I know he is an honorable gentleman but maybe he can not find the official list either.
Thinking it will be hard to find my answers I sent this e mail to:
CTBTaxQuestions@gov.bc.ca
(I wonder if I will get an answer to this simple request)
Dear Sirs,
Could you please provide a list of all products and services subject to the 12% HST come July 1st as I could not locate it on the Provincial Government's web site.
Thanks for you early reply,
Chris
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Wow did I get a fast answer( darn insulted as it was an automatic response, could I have expected more :() but it looks like they will provide no list, well I could not find one.
Maybe you can. ;D
Thank you for contacting the Tax Inquiries Group in the Policy and
Legislation Branch of the Ministry of Finance.
This is an automatic acknowledgement of your email.
Social Service Tax (PST), Carbon Tax, Hotel Room Tax, Motor Fuel Tax and
Tobacco Tax
The Tax Inquiries Group is responsible for providing responses to
questions relating to the Social Service Tax (PST), Carbon Tax, Hotel
Room Tax, Motor Fuel Tax and Tobacco Tax.
Should you require immediate assistance, our customer service agents can
be reached toll-free from anywhere in Canada at 1-877-388-4440 or
604-660-4524 within the Vancouver area between the hours of 8:30am -
4:30pm. They are unable to provide information regarding the proposed
HST.
For additional information please visit our website at:
http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/rev.htm.
BC HST
Subject to the approval of the Legislature of British Columbia, the
harmonized sales tax (HST) is the single harmonized value-added tax that
will replace the GST and PST in British Columbia on July 1, 2010.
Information on the proposed harmonized sales tax (HST) is available at:
http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/ (General information)
http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/business/Consumer_Taxes/Harmonized_Sales_Tax/HS
T_Transitional_Rules.html (HST Notices)
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/hrmnztn/bc/menu-eng.html
(CRA information and links to detailed Questions and Answers)
We can respond with general information on the proposed HST. However,
we are unable to provide technical rulings or interpretations on HST
questions.
The HST will be administered by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA). Please
direct technical HST inquiries to the CRA at 1 800 959-5525 (business
inquiries) or 1-800-959-8281 (individuals).
Thank you.
Tax Inquiries Group
Policy and Legislation Branch
Ministry of Finance
7th Floor - 1802 Douglas Street
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Provincial web site on the HST and I cannot seem to see a list posted on what new products and services will now be subject to the HST. It amazes me they say all the false information the ant HST camp is saying but they will not post the information many of us would like to see. What are they are they afraid of? :o
http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/
I had hoped alwaysfishn would have posted them for us as I know he is an honorable gentleman but maybe he can not find the official list either.
I appreciate the "honorable" mention Chris. :D
Any products or services currently subject to GST will be subject to HST. There was a list posted earlier on this thread which was fairly inclusive. As I suggested earlier the more relevant way to calculate the effect of HST on your budget is to calculate the HST cost on the things you purchase versus the current PST/GST cost of the things you purchase. I suggest there is little difference.
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http://www.fighthst.com/wp-content/uploads/HST-List.pdf
This is the list I got from Bill but why does they government not post theirs? Second thought it may be that they will once again change their mind like they did 2 days after the election. :-X :o
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I would be skeptical of anything I got from Bill...... Look at his record of truthfulness on Fantasy Gardens ;D ;D
CRA will be administering the HST by the same rules that the GST is administered...
Check out the CRA website http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/txblxmpt-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/txblxmpt-eng.html)
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10. You may have heard “HST will hurt small business”
HST will be good for business. It will replace hidden sale tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.
This is not exactly true, most if not all businesses have whats called a PST exemption number, and are not charged PST, nor is there any cost to be embedded at a later date. If I buy 10 widgets to build a product, I only pay the GST, then later get it back.
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10. You may have heard “HST will hurt small business”
HST will be good for business. It will replace hidden sale tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.
This is not exactly true, most if not all businesses have whats called a PST exemption number, and are not charged PST, nor is there any cost to be embedded at a later date. I f I buy 10 widgets to build a product, I only pay the GST, then later get it back.
You are correct that most businesses have a PST exempt number which exempts the products they buy for resale.
What they are referring to above is the PST that is charged on everything that goes into producing/manufacturing the products they sell. Approximately 40% of PST revenue collected in BC is paid by businesses on goods and services which they purchase to run their operations – everything from equipment, machinery, vehicles, and building materials to office supplies, furniture, energy, legal services and more. The HST that they pay in the future can be claimed back. In addition the cost of collecting the PST tax will be eliminated.
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The HST's bitter pill might be good medicine
Times Colonist (Victoria)
Friday, April 23, 2010
Page A12
By Maclean Kay
Until you live someplace, you can't get a proper feel for her passions and proclivities. So, naturally I started paying attention to the debate over the harmonized sales tax.
Coming from Alberta, I naturally sympathized with its opponents -- taxes bad! Announced just after an election, when it needed to be discussed in advance, the timing wasn't merely suspicious. It reeked. Still does.
But it didn't take long to see the issue was more complicated.
B.C. politics "enjoy" a reputation as harsh and noisy, making it hard to discern mindless rhetoric from fair comment. Many of the HST's detractors are ordinary people who think it's a bad idea. Fair enough.
But many of the loudest are the types who think Premier Gordon Campbell lies when he orders lunch. That's not a knock on the left -- they have counterparts on the other side, just as shrill and stupid. It's a knock on people who don't know what they're for, only who they hate.
Assuming the Liberals aren't evil fat cats lighting cigars with $100 bills, but actually believe this is good policy, I wanted to hear their side. They must think it's worth it to endure this, because they couldn't have handled it worse.
If that's the case, I should ask the smartest person I could find to explain it. So, I looked in the mirror.
Yes, I'm kidding. I asked a friend who can arrange such things, who he would recommend. Would a Harvard MBA economist do? Uh ... yeah. That would be fine.
Ralph Sultan, the first provincial politician I've met with a Harvard MBA, was good enough to call me and explain the benefits of the HST, slowly, using long words only when absolutely necessary. Sultan started by saying, basically, value-added taxes are the future. Most Western countries are moving this way, with the notable exception of the United States. Simpler and cheaper overall, they're much loved by economists.
Currently, consumers are hit by several layers of provincial sales tax before the product or service appears in front of them, especially in sectors like manufacturing. This accumulates, driving the costs of business up. You're paying those taxes now, you just aren't seeing them.
The HST has the benefit of being visible. That I can appreciate.
I asked Sultan how British Columbians can be expected to support what is, to most, a bigger tax on more items.
"Let's start with jobs," he said. No matter how much this isn't fun to hear, the companies people work for have to do well, or they either fold or leave. Neither of those is good for the province, and the multi-tiered tax system makes B.C. less attractive to do business in.
Yes, the "annoyance factor" will be there. Some things will be more expensive. But the cost of business will go down, encouraging reinvestment in industries not doing well, such as forestry.
As someone who wasn't here in the awful 1990s, but pointing and laughing from Alberta (now doing the same in reverse), I can appreciate that, too.
Policy aside, Sultan has been one of his own government's harshest critics of the timing and delivery. He's right -- the delivery was borderline incompetent, and incomprehensibly slow to muster a response to the storm of opposition. That doesn't inspire confidence, which the Opposition MLAs have exploited. As they should.
Sultan made good points, I had to admit. I enjoyed the chance to pick his brain. Too often, we decry politicians for swaying with the polls and playing it safe.
Nothing is irreversible -- the Liberals are clearly and openly gambling that by the next election, voters will have seen the benefits and calmed down.
The federal Liberals vowed to repeal the hated GST, but found it made too much sense and kept it. Sultan says it will be the same here -- bitter pill, good medicine.
But man, was that timing ever horrible.
macleankay@shaw.ca
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Restaurant meals
Cable TV
New Homes
Non-prescription meds
Telephone
Internet
Propane / Natural gas
Hockey tickets
Some groceries – Prepared foods
Hair cuts
Admission fees
Membership fees
Movies
Theatre
Bus fares
Magazines/ newspapers
Rents /Strata fees
Taxi fares
Airline tickets
Golf fees
Music lessons
Skiing
Spa services
Massage therapy
Resort packages
Parking
Coffee shops
Fast food - Beverages
Dry cleaning
Car repair & maintenance
Vitamins
Dietary supplements
School supplies
Photography
Home maintenance
Health equipment
Consulting services
Storage lockers
Moorage
Campgrounds
RV parks
Animal feed
Fishing charters
Heating fuel
Naturopathy
Reflexology
Veterinarian
Physiotherapy
Museums
Home renovations
Painting
Real estate fees
Bicycles
Accounting
Architects
Legal fees
Concert Tickets
Funeral services
Chinese medicine
Marketing services
Safety equipment
Helmets
Life jackets
First aid kits
Smoke detectors
Fire extinguishers
Energy equipment
Insulation
Solar power
Attractions / Events
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With that list, you guys keep forgetting to list the rebates to the HST that are applicable. Particularly the rebates for new home purchases. I like how that keeps being included in the list without clarification. Also, go through that list and realistically identify how many items on it you consume regularly. If you can afford any of those things on a regular basis, you can most likely afford an additional bit of tax. Also, take rent off that list, as it is not subject to HST - and remember that landlords are limited in how much they can increase rent each year.
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With that list, you guys keep forgetting to list the rebates to the HST that are applicable. Particularly the rebates for new home purchases. I like how that keeps being included in the list without clarification. Also, go through that list and realistically identify how many items on it you consume regularly. If you can afford any of those things on a regular basis, you can most likely afford an additional bit of tax. Also, take rent off that list, as it is not subject to HST - and remember that landlords are limited in how much they can increase rent each year.
What rebates? And all you can come up with to dispute is rent? And good luck finding a home in the lower mainland under the $500,000 threshold.
There's a lot on that list are pretty necessary - like natural gas or you can freeze in winter. I've tried cutting my own hair- looked pretty bad. Do you really think a landlord is going to take a hit like the HST is going to put on maintenance, and not pass it on? Are you really deluded enough to think retailers are going to pass on any savings they might realize? Don't need a phone? Never had a therapeutic massage or physiotherapy for a messed up back? Walk, don't take a bus if you can't afford a car. If you get a headache, don't reach for an aspirin (or if you need it for your heart). Don't take vitamins. Look at the sizes before kids aren't considered kids for tax purposes. My 13 year old is 6'1 and takes size 11 shoes, but his clothes are taxed.School supplies. Don't try to get fit - your membership is hit as well as your bicycle, forget about the savings to the health care system.Etc,etc
I make no bones about my disdain for the liar - lawn chocolates in power. They're beneath contempt and way beyond arrogance.
DISMISSED!
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Restaurant meals
Cable TV
etc. etc
This list taken from Vanderzalm's website is full of duplications, inaccuracies and as CameronT120 noted, fails to list any offsetting HST rebates and credits. Vanderzalm would have more credibility if he referred people to the CRA GST/HST website. ???
It's safe to say if you currently pay GST on anything you purchase / consume, you will pay HST. The HST as the current HST will be administered by CRA not the provincial government.
There has never been a "GST" list put out by the federal government so it is unlikely that they will put out an "HST" list. If you go to the GST website you can at least learn from the source rather than the Vanderzalm "fan the flames" rhetoric.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/menu-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/menu-eng.html)
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What rebates? And all you can come up with to dispute is rent? And good luck finding a home in the lower mainland under the $500,000 threshold.
There's a lot on that list are pretty necessary - like natural gas or you can freeze in winter. I've tried cutting my own hair- looked pretty bad. Do you really think a landlord is going to take a hit like the HST is going to put on maintenance, and not pass it on? Are you really deluded enough to think retailers are going to pass on any savings they might realize? Don't need a phone? Never had a therapeutic massage or physiotherapy for a messed up back? Walk, don't take a bus if you can't afford a car. If you get a headache, don't reach for an aspirin (or if you need it for your heart). Don't take vitamins. Look at the sizes before kids aren't considered kids for tax purposes. My 13 year old is 6'1 and takes size 11 shoes, but his clothes are taxed.School supplies. Don't try to get fit - your membership is hit as well as your bicycle, forget about the savings to the health care system.Etc,etc
I make no bones about my disdain for the liar - lawn chocolates in power. They're beneath contempt and way beyond arrogance.
DISMISSED!
Novabonker, you must be drinking the same strong coffee that Vanderzalm drinks... ;D At least your intentions are quite honest. (even though you clearly don't appreciate the advantage of the HST system versus the current PST tax system)
You will be paying more consumption taxes for sure (the province needs your money), however as long as you keep drinking that coffee you won't need to buy any of those "expensive" aspirin for your heart. :D
Vanderzalm on the other hand, is clearly misleading the public in order to make a name for himself, so that he can run for premier in the next election as the leader of the BC Conservative party. ???
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Let's toss the list to the side and bring up DEMOCRACY. We supposedly live in a democracy, but this flies right in the face of that. Look at the polling numbers. When a government tries to ram it's agenda down the electorate's throat, it's time to stand up and be counted. It's our province and not the liberals. They were sent to Victoria to represent the wishes of B.C., not act like tin pot dictators in the third world. The waste these fools foist on us just by the size of the cabinet and the 30 million dollar PR machine (read PAB) would help pare down some of the ATM attitude that the buffoon Campbell has for the taxpayer that doesn't earn hundreds of thousands a year. If money is so tight why the hell did Gordo put on that dog and pony show to announce the site c dam project? These same idiots that can't see a raise in the minimum wage earner from a measly 8 bucks an hour. ::) It's all about business and nothing for the working poor.Yeah, yeah, yeah rebates, quarterly cheque and all that horse hockey still doesn't feed or house the people that can least afford it.Smoke, mirrors and bafflegab don't fill a hungry stomach any better than the excrement that comes from the liar's mouths.Show me the list of rebates and credits that you're trumpeting about but have yet to deliver.
One small, but important point - If this is such a wonderful tax, why wasn't it trotted out before the last election? Because we both know the liberals would have lost the election. They even went the extra mile saying they wouldn't be bringing in the HST. So, in essence, they got there by fraudulent means. Lies and deceit. Put as much lipstick, mascara and other make up as you wish on the pig, but it's still a pig.
Tell me AF and your sidekick- Do you believe in democracy? That's the only question I'm asking of you. nothing else, no sidetracks or pro or anti GST rhetoric, just simply - Do you believe in democracy?.
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Let's toss the list to the side and bring up DEMOCRACY. We supposedly live in a democracy, but this flies right in the face of that. Look at the polling numbers. When a government tries to ram it's agenda down the electorate's throat, it's time to stand up and be counted. It's our province and not the liberals. They were sent to Victoria to represent the wishes of B.C., not act like tin pot dictators in the third world. The waste these fools foist on us just by the size of the cabinet and the 30 million dollar PR machine (read PAB) would help pare down some of the ATM attitude that the buffoon Campbell has for the taxpayer that doesn't earn hundreds of thousands a year. If money is so tight why the hell did Gordo put on that dog and pony show to announce the site c dam project? These same idiots that can't see a raise in the minimum wage earner from a measly 8 bucks an hour. ::) It's all about business and nothing for the working poor.Yeah, yeah, yeah rebates, quarterly cheque and all that horse hockey still doesn't feed or house the people that can least afford it.Smoke, mirrors and bafflegab don't fill a hungry stomach any better than the excrement that comes from the liar's mouths.Show me the list of rebates and credits that you're trumpeting about but have yet to deliver.
One small, but important point - If this is such a wonderful tax, why wasn't it trotted out before the last election? Because we both know the liberals would have lost the election. They even went the extra mile saying they wouldn't be bringing in the HST. So, in essence, they got there by fraudulent means. Lies and deceit. Put as much lipstick, mascara and other make up as you wish on the pig, but it's still a pig.
Reminds me of the time Joe Clark campaigned on the need to raise the gasoline tax so that he could balance the budgets. The liberals campaigned on the fact they would not raise the gas tax and won. In less than a year the gas tax went up. Then there was Chretien's promise to eliminate the GST.... I'm sure you can add a few more.
Tell me AF and your sidekick- Do you believe in democracy? That's the only question I'm asking of you. nothing else, no sidetracks or pro or anti GST rhetoric, just simply - Do you believe in democracy?.
As I've said before, democracy doesn't mean you get a say in every decision the government makes. Democracy means that every 4 years you get to vote on who runs the province. So YES, I believe in democracy!
If you want to get involved in the decision making, then run for office!
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Reminds me of the time Joe Clark campaigned on the need to raise the gasoline tax so that he could balance the budgets. The liberals campaigned on the fact they would not raise the gas tax and won. In less than a year the gas tax went up. Then there was Chretien's promise to eliminate the GST.... I'm sure you can add a few more.
As I've said before, democracy doesn't mean you get a say in every decision the government makes. Democracy means that every 4 years you get to vote on who runs the province. So YES, I believe in democracy!
If you want to get involved in the decision making, then run for office!
How do you square that circle? The anti HST forces are representing the wishes of a vast majority of British Columbians. I assume you might have run some sort of business, so if you hired somebody and it turns out they lied through their teeth to get the job, do you keep them around for 4 years? Highly doubtful. This is democracy in action, like it or lump it. As to your condesending remark about running for office, I don't have the resources and refuse to prostitute myself like Campbell has for party donations. Look at the list of donors, look at the list of who gets the perks. Funny how that works. Shameful and lacking any form of morality.
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Okay, so this really isn't about the HST, it's about your dislike for how Campbell does things. Right?
Two separate issues, that I wish would be kept separate. "Campbell bad", I can respect that opinion. It's just a shame that you can't see the HST for the better tax that it is and keep it removed from your feelings towards what you think this government did to you. None of us like taxes, but I'd rather see this new tax than the regressive and unfair PST that it will replace.
But what do I know, according to you, I'm deluded (how about sticking to topic and leave the school yard name calling out of it?).
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As to your condesending remark about running for office, I don't have the resources and refuse to prostitute myself like Campbell has for party donations. Look at the list of donors, look at the list of who gets the perks. Funny how that works. Shameful and lacking any form of morality.
My remark wasn't intended to be condescending whatsoever.
However your generalizing comments on the people that run for office if taken as gospel truth would deter anyone from running for office!
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Okay, so this really isn't about the HST, it's about your dislike for how Campbell does things. Right?
Two separate issues, that I wish would be kept separate. "Campbell bad", I can respect that opinion. It's just a shame that you can't see the HST for the better tax that it is and keep it removed from your feelings towards what you think this government did to you. None of us like taxes, but I'd rather see this new tax than the regressive and unfair PST that it will replace.
But what do I know, according to you, I'm deluded (how about sticking to topic and leave the school yard name calling out of it?).
Not quite - two issues that bind together. I don't have time for liars and corrupt liars with my money? Are you content to just sit back and be lied to -AGAIN? At some point the straw breaks the camel's back and this is it, not just for me, but a ringing majority of the populace. Why do you suppose that is? Because Campbell and his henchmen lied through their teeth about this. >:( I look at his term in office as a disgrace and he needs to be GONE along with his corrupt stooges. If there's any thing at all I can do to rid BC of them, I'll do it in a heartbeat. The HST is going to bring down the liberals, one way or another. Again, why wasn't this brought up as a possibility in the last election? Treacherous liars, that swore they wouldn't but (nudge, nudge) were forced into it by Ontario. ::) Codswallop.
Did you not state that savings will be passed on? I call bull#%*t . I buy some supplies for my business across the line because of "sticky" pricing. I can ship, pay any import fees, brokerage and still put between 20 to 40% in my pocket - and I'm not paying the wholesale pricing that local suppliers are.And it has nothing to do with "old inventory", but sheer greed and gouging. There goes that theory out the window from my personal experience.
I apologize for hurting your sensitivities by the deluded comment.
BTW- I'm no fan of the NDP or political hacks of any stripe. I just think it's time for honest people to do the job, not miscreants that say one thing and do the exact opposite. Time to take back our province from them.
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The petition is rolling rolling, rolling right along ;D ;D ;D here in Chilliwack.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/news/92139849.html
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The pigs, the trough. Look at lucrative positions government insiders have. DISGUSTING! I refuse to sit back for 4 years and watch lying thieves steal the province from under our feet
Mark Grant, BC Liberal executive director, resigns December 12, 2008 to join Rupert Peace Power.
David Cyr, former Assistant to BC Liberal Minister Mike de Jong, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Robert Poore, recently worked under the Provincial Revenue Minister of the Province of BC, now is a senior director at Plutonic Power.
Tom Syer, who has held a variety of senior positions in the BC Government including Gordon Campbell’s Deputy Chief of Staff, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Bill Irwin, after holding key positions in the BC Ministries of Land and Water, and Crown Lands, now is a director at Plutonic Power.
Bruce Ripley spent the last 2 of his 16 years at BC Hydro as VP Engineering, now is President and CEO of Plutonic Power.
Elisha McCallum (Moreno), after 7 years with BC Hydro as a media relations manager, moved to a directorship with Plutonic Power.
Bruce Young, has held several high profile positions with the BC Liberal party and lobbied his own party on behalf of Katabatic Power is listed as a director of Atla Energy.
Stephen Kukucha, former senior policy advisor for the BC Ministry of Environment, is now president and CEO of Atla Energy.
Bob Herath, former Assistant Regional Water Manager for the BC Ministry of Environment is now with Syntaris Power.
Paul Taylor, after his work as President and CEO of crown corporation ICBC as well as high level positions in the BC Government, is now President and CEO of Naikun Wind Energy Group.
Michael J. O’Conner, former President and CEO of Crown Corporation BC Transit, now holds senior positions at Naikun.
Jackie Hamilton, formerly held various BC Government environmental assessment and regulatory management positions, is now a VP at Cloudworks Energy.
Michael Margolick, held positions in resource and strategic planning at BC Hydro, now is the Vice President of Power and Transmission planning at Naikun Wind.
Robert Price, after a 30-year career at BC Hydro and Power Authority which culminated as the utility’s Vancouver Island transmission line construction, supervision and operations manager, now a member of the Hawkeye ‘team’ (website is not clear on Price’s position at Hawkeye).
Mr. Paul Adams, after a 33-year career with BC Hydro in which he held senior management positions, now is another ‘team’ member at Hawkeye.
Doug Bishop, formerly 32 years with BC Hydro and Powerex, was contracted in 2004 by Plutonic Power.
Ron Monk former BC Hydro Engineer, now employed by Kerr Wood Leidal engineering firm used by IPPs.
Wayne Chambers, a former BC Hydro power plant and substation operator, now a manager at Cloudworks.
Alexander Kiess, after long career with BC Hydro in management, now works as a consultant to Syntaris Power.
Geoff Plant, former BC Liberal Attorney General, now chair of Renaissance Power.
And here's Joan McIntyre's investment portfolio- OINK! OINK!
She bought shares in Methanex Corp, Atlantic Power Corp., Goldcorp Inc., Pembina Pipeline Income Fund, MBNA Bank, Bell Canada, Enbridge Inc., Advantage Oil & Gas, Biovail, BMO, Bank of Nova Scotia, Celestica, Cenovus Energy, CIBC, Encana, Enbridge, Interpipeline Fund, H&R Real Estate Inocme Trust, Just Energy Inc. Fund, Manulife Financial, PowerShares India ETF, Provident Energy Trust, Royal Bank, Sherritt International, Sino Forest, TD Bank, Transalta Corp. and Verizon Communications.
Just some Liberal donors that get preferential treatment:: ( see duplications from above list - insider knowledge?)
Goldcorp $242,200.00
Pembina Pipeline $2,392.00
Bell Canada $36,170.00
Enbridge $50,290.00
BMO companies $59,020.00
CIBC $144,010.00
Encana $373,470.00
Enbridge $50,290.00
H&R real estate $1,150.00
Royal Bank $44,950.00
TD Bank $48,240.00
Transalta $15,450.00
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You need to focus Novabonker...... We're talking about HST here, not the career path of some politicians.... ???
You're starting to sound like Bill on the campaign trail..... :D
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http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/04/27/HSTStrangeFriends/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=270410
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This article reminds me of when my kids were little and they needed to go for a dentist's appointment.
There was often some kicking and screaming and occasionally some pain in the dentist's chair, but a few days later they had forgotten about it. ;)
Today my kids all have pretty nice teeth!
Probably be no different when the HST is implemented!
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This article reminds me of when my kids were little and they needed to go for a dentist's appointment.
There was often some kicking and screaming and occasionally some pain in the dentist's chair, but a few days later they had forgotten about it. ;)
Today my kids all have pretty nice teeth!
Probably be no different when the HST is implemented!
You need to focus here alwaysfishn as we are not talking about dentists on this thread. ;D ;D ;D
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LOL!!! ;D ;D
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Why British Columbia and Ontario need the HST
http://www.troymedia.com/?p=10135 (http://www.troymedia.com/?p=10135)
April 23, 2010
By Roslyn Kunin
B.C. Business Columnist
Troy Media
VANCOUVER, BC, Apr. 23, 2010/ — On July 1, the cost of becoming more productive and competitive will fall significantly in B.C. and Ontario, as the harmonized sales tax replaces the provincial sales tax.
The PST directly adds to the cost of machinery, equipment and the technology we need to invest in if our businesses are to become productive enough to survive in global market. The new tax – the HST – can be deducted from the tax collected when the firm sells its final output. Not only will this save our industries billions of dollars, but it will also go a long way to helping us deal with a strong dollar and improve our economy and our lives.
Better than Americans?
Canadians think we are at least as good as Americans, if not better. We are more polite than they are. We say please and thank you more often. We don’t carry arms. And Canadian citizens, if not always Canadian teams, play the best hockey.
There are also many similarities: We speak the same language as our U.S. neighbours, shop in similar malls, live in the same kinds of houses and hold the same kinds of jobs. Moving south of the 49th parallel is not nearly as big a change for Canadians as moving to Asia, Africa or even South America or Europe.
But there are some important areas where we are not keeping up with the Americans. In fact, now that our currency is at par, they are eating our lunch.
When Americans go to work, they turn out more goods and services each hour than do Canadians – they are more productive. As the accompanying graph shows, American output per hour worked has been higher than Canadian productivity over the lifetimes of most Canadians. And the difference is growing as U.S. productivity improves faster than ours. In the last quarter of 2009, Canadian productivity grew a mere 1.4 per cent, while the U.S. surged ahead 6.9 per cent.
Producing less means earning less, and this hurts our standard of living. As long as those who bought what we produced could pay in 65 cent dollars, we only noticed how poor we were when we traveled out of the country. Now, with our dollar equal to the U.S.’s, our goods and services are more expensive to the rest of the world. We have trouble competing and lose export sales and jobs.
If we want a better life for ourselves and our children, we need to become more productive. But we don’t do that by toiling like slaves. Instead, we need the tools that enable us to generate more output for each hour worked. I’m referring to the machinery, equipment and technology that increase output without increasing effort.
A recent report from Statistics Canada shows we are moving in the wrong direction. Instead of helping us stay competitive by adding machinery and equipment, Canada had a record level drop in this kind of investment during the last recession. In the short run, this had a small benefit: Companies that were not spending on improving productivity could afford to keep more workers on and minimize unemployment.
HST will make it easier to become more productive
In the long run, not investing in the tools that will increase productivity is like not giving your child needed medical treatment because it will hurt. Less productive companies may end up with all their workers becoming unemployed as they lose their customers to more productive producers.
There are many things we can do to improve our economy and our job base. We can undertake research and apply new, innovative ideas. We can add human capital, training workers at all levels.
But the fastest and most immediate thing we can do is to apply more of the machinery, equipment and technology that already exists. By reducing the cost of investment for companies, the HST will make it easier for us to do this.
Dr. Roslyn Kunin is director of the B.C. Office for the Canada West Foundation.
Channels: The Calgary Beacon, April 25, the Guelph Mercury, April 28, 2010
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Why British Columbia and Ontario need the HST
http://www.troymedia.com/?p=10135 (http://www.troymedia.com/?p=10135)
April 23, 2010
By Roslyn Kunin
B.C. Business Columnist
Troy Media
VANCOUVER, BC, Apr. 23, 2010/ — On July 1, the cost of becoming more productive and competitive will fall significantly in B.C. and Ontario, as the harmonized sales tax replaces the provincial sales tax.
The PST directly adds to the cost of machinery, equipment and the technology we need to invest in if our businesses are to become productive enough to survive in global market. The new tax – the HST – can be deducted from the tax collected when the firm sells its final output. Not only will this save our industries billions of dollars, but it will also go a long way to helping us deal with a strong dollar and improve our economy and our lives.
Better than Americans?
Canadians think we are at least as good as Americans, if not better. We are more polite than they are. We say please and thank you more often. We don’t carry arms. And Canadian citizens, if not always Canadian teams, play the best hockey.
There are also many similarities: We speak the same language as our U.S. neighbours, shop in similar malls, live in the same kinds of houses and hold the same kinds of jobs. Moving south of the 49th parallel is not nearly as big a change for Canadians as moving to Asia, Africa or even South America or Europe.
But there are some important areas where we are not keeping up with the Americans. In fact, now that our currency is at par, they are eating our lunch.
When Americans go to work, they turn out more goods and services each hour than do Canadians – they are more productive. As the accompanying graph shows, American output per hour worked has been higher than Canadian productivity over the lifetimes of most Canadians. And the difference is growing as U.S. productivity improves faster than ours. In the last quarter of 2009, Canadian productivity grew a mere 1.4 per cent, while the U.S. surged ahead 6.9 per cent.
Producing less means earning less, and this hurts our standard of living. As long as those who bought what we produced could pay in 65 cent dollars, we only noticed how poor we were when we traveled out of the country. Now, with our dollar equal to the U.S.’s, our goods and services are more expensive to the rest of the world. We have trouble competing and lose export sales and jobs.
If we want a better life for ourselves and our children, we need to become more productive. But we don’t do that by toiling like slaves. Instead, we need the tools that enable us to generate more output for each hour worked. I’m referring to the machinery, equipment and technology that increase output without increasing effort.
A recent report from Statistics Canada shows we are moving in the wrong direction. Instead of helping us stay competitive by adding machinery and equipment, Canada had a record level drop in this kind of investment during the last recession. In the short run, this had a small benefit: Companies that were not spending on improving productivity could afford to keep more workers on and minimize unemployment.
HST will make it easier to become more productive
In the long run, not investing in the tools that will increase productivity is like not giving your child needed medical treatment because it will hurt. Less productive companies may end up with all their workers becoming unemployed as they lose their customers to more productive producers.
There are many things we can do to improve our economy and our job base. We can undertake research and apply new, innovative ideas. We can add human capital, training workers at all levels.
But the fastest and most immediate thing we can do is to apply more of the machinery, equipment and technology that already exists. By reducing the cost of investment for companies, the HST will make it easier for us to do this.
Dr. Roslyn Kunin is director of the B.C. Office for the Canada West Foundation.
Channels: The Calgary Beacon, April 25, the Guelph Mercury, April 28, 2010
This artical reminds me of the crap i took this morning. ;)
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The pigs, the trough. Look at lucrative positions government insiders have. DISGUSTING! I refuse to sit back for 4 years and watch lying thieves steal the province from under our feet
Mark Grant, BC Liberal executive director, resigns December 12, 2008 to join Rupert Peace Power.
David Cyr, former Assistant to BC Liberal Minister Mike de Jong, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Robert Poore, recently worked under the Provincial Revenue Minister of the Province of BC, now is a senior director at Plutonic Power.
Tom Syer, who has held a variety of senior positions in the BC Government including Gordon Campbell’s Deputy Chief of Staff, is now a director at Plutonic Power.
Bill Irwin, after holding key positions in the BC Ministries of Land and Water, and Crown Lands, now is a director at Plutonic Power.
Bruce Ripley spent the last 2 of his 16 years at BC Hydro as VP Engineering, now is President and CEO of Plutonic Power.
Elisha McCallum (Moreno), after 7 years with BC Hydro as a media relations manager, moved to a directorship with Plutonic Power.
Bruce Young, has held several high profile positions with the BC Liberal party and lobbied his own party on behalf of Katabatic Power is listed as a director of Atla Energy.
Stephen Kukucha, former senior policy advisor for the BC Ministry of Environment, is now president and CEO of Atla Energy.
Bob Herath, former Assistant Regional Water Manager for the BC Ministry of Environment is now with Syntaris Power.
Paul Taylor, after his work as President and CEO of crown corporation ICBC as well as high level positions in the BC Government, is now President and CEO of Naikun Wind Energy Group.
Michael J. O’Conner, former President and CEO of Crown Corporation BC Transit, now holds senior positions at Naikun.
Jackie Hamilton, formerly held various BC Government environmental assessment and regulatory management positions, is now a VP at Cloudworks Energy.
Michael Margolick, held positions in resource and strategic planning at BC Hydro, now is the Vice President of Power and Transmission planning at Naikun Wind.
Robert Price, after a 30-year career at BC Hydro and Power Authority which culminated as the utility’s Vancouver Island transmission line construction, supervision and operations manager, now a member of the Hawkeye ‘team’ (website is not clear on Price’s position at Hawkeye).
Mr. Paul Adams, after a 33-year career with BC Hydro in which he held senior management positions, now is another ‘team’ member at Hawkeye.
Doug Bishop, formerly 32 years with BC Hydro and Powerex, was contracted in 2004 by Plutonic Power.
Ron Monk former BC Hydro Engineer, now employed by Kerr Wood Leidal engineering firm used by IPPs.
Wayne Chambers, a former BC Hydro power plant and substation operator, now a manager at Cloudworks.
Alexander Kiess, after long career with BC Hydro in management, now works as a consultant to Syntaris Power.
Geoff Plant, former BC Liberal Attorney General, now chair of Renaissance Power.
And here's Joan McIntyre's investment portfolio- OINK! OINK!
She bought shares in Methanex Corp, Atlantic Power Corp., Goldcorp Inc., Pembina Pipeline Income Fund, MBNA Bank, Bell Canada, Enbridge Inc., Advantage Oil & Gas, Biovail, BMO, Bank of Nova Scotia, Celestica, Cenovus Energy, CIBC, Encana, Enbridge, Interpipeline Fund, H&R Real Estate Inocme Trust, Just Energy Inc. Fund, Manulife Financial, PowerShares India ETF, Provident Energy Trust, Royal Bank, Sherritt International, Sino Forest, TD Bank, Transalta Corp. and Verizon Communications.
Just some Liberal donors that get preferential treatment:: ( see duplications from above list - insider knowledge?)
Goldcorp $242,200.00
Pembina Pipeline $2,392.00
Bell Canada $36,170.00
Enbridge $50,290.00
BMO companies $59,020.00
CIBC $144,010.00
Encana $373,470.00
Enbridge $50,290.00
H&R real estate $1,150.00
Royal Bank $44,950.00
TD Bank $48,240.00
Transalta $15,450.00
Thanks for putting this list up Novabonker ;D
Makes a guy want to trust the Libs and swallow the HST bait. LOL
I will say this as much as I am against the HST.. ROR'S infuriate me.
FISH FARMS, HST, ROR SUPPORTERS BELONG ON ONE BUS and Gordo's driving it martini in hand.
Bluesteele ;D
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This artical reminds me of the crap i took this morning.
Don't know about you - but I generally feel better after a crap in the morning... ;D
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Don't know about you - but I generally feel better after a crap in the morning... ;D
Although this thread is about fighting the HST........ I'd have to agree with you! :D
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If nothing else, at least this futile "fight HST" exercise is making BC politics interesting again!
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/48966--high-profile-boost-for-anti-hst-campaign (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/48966--high-profile-boost-for-anti-hst-campaign)
http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Columnists.../13754956.html (http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Columnists.../13754956.html)
Understanding the NDP-Conservative HST marriage
Who’da thunk my 24 hours’ colleague Bill Tieleman – a stalwart NDPer – is waging a campaign for the BC Conservative Party? Well, folks, that’s exactly what the best outcome for Tieleman’s anti-tax crusade will be – a bolstered provincial party on the right. Welcome to politics in B.C., where the NDP carry a base of just over 38 per cent of voters. The Conservative/Liberal coalition known as the B.C. Liberal Party generally holds a larger number, but only by a couple of points. You split that coalition, and the NDP laugh all the way to the Legislature in Victoria.
This explains the awkward marriage of left and right-wingers lining up against the HST.
Never mind the fact that some of the most credible conservatives in the province such as Barry Penner, Kevin Falcon and Rich Coleman are currently in the B.C. government. Anything that experienced political operatives like Tieleman can do to drive a wedge in the B.C. Liberals camp is only good for the NDP. The irony in all this of course is that for all their bluster, B.C.’s NDP will not repeal the HST if they form government. To do so would require paying the federal government at least $1.6 billion. Even the NDP would have a hard time throwing that amount of money away.
This so-called grassroots democracy – including running websites and Facebook groups – is all about the next election in 2013.
This campaign is about three words: Premier Carole James.
No one thinks the B.C. Conservative party will form government, or even win a seat in 2013. But what it will do is siphon off enough votes in close ridings to ensure more NDP candidates are elected. It’s the game that was played here in Vancouver where another Liberal/ Conservative coalition (a.k.a. the NPA) split, and let the civic NDP (a.k.a. Vision Vancouver) take city hall.
In his Tuesday 24 hours’ column, Tieleman asked why the B.C. Chamber of Commerce were not opposing the HST. Uh Bill, duh, because it’s a better tax than the PST, which critics apparently do not like to discuss. In fact, a tax expert who has been adding wall comments about why the HST is better on Bill’s anti-HST Facebook page regularly has his posts snipped.
Not sure if you’ve heard about the anti-HST “hit list” either, and the inaccurate stuff it circulates. For example, they fool you that your phone and cable bills will be 7% higher, when you already pay PST on all those specialty channels and phone features already. And if you are a low-income earner under $20,000 per year, your HST rebates are increased up to $230. If you live in a household with only $25,000 income, every member of that household gets $230 as well. In other words, these folks will probably come out ahead.
As you try to get the facts about the HST, remind yourself that many political agendas are in play. Unfortunately, not a single one of them will save you a penny, nor keep you employed.
With Carol James heading the NDP and the Zalm heading the BC Conservatives, poor Gordon Campbell doesn't stand a chance campaigning against those 2 gorgeous smiles in 2013! :D ;D
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AF- My point was that they have no moral authority to govern. Again, I ask if you're content with liars and thieves running the province into the ground? Look at the list of investments, then look at the party donors. Give them money, they give you the red carpet. Guess it's just a one off though. I've got a nice bridge for sale - CHEAP! ;)
I'm not content with these miscreants and every opportunity I get, I shine a flashlight on the activities of these thieves. But the Basi Virk- BC Rail trial is going to be a spotlight on the vermin. (With all due apologies to vermin)
See- I left out John Les and the ALR shenanigans, Janey T's impaired Olympic party, Lekstrom's BC Hydro suite, Falcon picking a private clinic owner to run Coastal Health, and so much more it's dizzying.
But if you say they're on the right path.... ;D ;D ;D
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If you want to start a new thread on liars and thieves, I may participate...... ???
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Thinking it will be hard to find my answers I sent this e mail to:
CTBTaxQuestions@gov.bc.ca
(I wonder if I will get an answer to this simple request)
Dear Sirs,
Could you please provide a list of all products and services subject to the 12% HST come July 1st as I could not locate it on the Provincial Government's web site.
Thanks for you early reply,
Chris
This came to me today in the response to my question above.
Thank you for your inquiry.
HST will generally apply to the same goods and services that are
currently taxable under the GST. If there was 5 per cent GST on a good
or service, there will be 12 per cent HST unless the item is eligible
for a provincial point-of-sale rebate or provincial credit.
Under the harmonization agreement with the Government of Canada, British
Columbia is able to provide a limited number of provincial point-of-sale
rebates for items representing up to five per cent of the GST base in
BC. The point-of-sale rebates apply only to the seven per cent
provincial portion of the HST and are administered by the Canada Revenue
Agency. British Columbia will provide point-of-sale rebates for the
provincial portion of the HST on motor fuels, books, children-sized
clothing and footwear, children's car seats and car booster seats,
children's diapers, and feminine hygiene products.
BC will also provide a provincially administered residential energy
credit for energy purchased for residential use. The amount of the
credit will be equal to the provincial portion of the HST paid or
payable on the energy (excluding service and administration charges).
There will be certain items that are currently PST exempt, but will
become taxable under the HST. Please note, this is not an all inclusive
list.
Goods:
Basic cable TV and local residential telephone rates
Food products other than basic groceries
Non-prescription medications
Vitamins and dietary supplements
Bicycles
Magazines and newspapers
Safety helmets, life jackets, first aid kits
Smoke detectors and fire extinguishers
Energy conservation equipment
Services
Currently, PST applies only to certain services, such as the
installation, repair, or maintenance of goods. All other services are
not subject to PST.
For a more complete list of what will be taxable or exempt under the
HST, please refer to the following Canada Revenue Agency link:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/menu-eng.html
This correspondence describes the proposed HST and is for information
purposes only. In the event of a conflict between this correspondence
and any legislation enacted to implement the HST, the legislation will
govern. The Ministry is not responsible for updating this response if
there are any subsequent changes to the proposed HST. The HST is
imposed under federal legislation, the Excise Tax Act (Canada) and will
be administered by the Canada Revenue Agency. For information related
to the transition to HST, please visit
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/hrmnztn/menu-eng.html
or call 1 800 959 5525.
HST Inquiries
Ministry of Finance
http://www.gov.bc.ca/hst/
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Two priceless items from yesterday- the whiny response from from Colon Hansen when Elections BC ruled against the mailer. Geez, it was all good when it was in their favour during the election, but apparently they find it constricting when it's not. Somebody give Hansen a tissue to wipe his eyes and blow his nose with.
And the second was Mike Farnworth's response to the jab about working with Vander Zalm- "Fannntasstic!"
I'm sending in my application to become a canvasser.
RECALL IN THE FALL!
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I'm sending in my application to become a canvasser.
Great to see that you are finally getting on the band wagon! ;D ;D
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Great to see that you are finally getting on the band wagon! ;D ;D
Can you be far behind. ;D ;D ;D
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I've always been a little slow in getting on or off band wagons.....
Could be the reason why I'm still a leafs fan! :D
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I've always been a little slow in getting on or off band wagons.....
Could be the reason why I'm still a leafs fan! :D
That a Boy. ;D ;D ;D
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Can you be far behind. ;D ;D ;D
Yes- many miles behind - read his posts.....
(Posted in humour)
ooops - appears Colon Hansen's complaint to Elections BC was dismissed. Now he's really whining up a storm.
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From A Liberal MLA, it still amazes me why do they not list the items that is actually going to taxed. ::)
Over the past few months I have been contacted many times by people concerned about the move to the harmonized sales tax (HST). Frequently they have been told that the cost of the HST to them and their families will be beyond the realm of affordability and will cause great hardship in their budgets. I now feel it is important to ensure some factual information is circulated by sending out some facts that many may not have seen or know.
While it is true that the HST was not on the government's radar earlier this year, it is just as true that year after year for the past many years staff within the Ministry of Finance have conducted inquiries to see if there was benefit to converting to the HST. The all-party Finance Committee had recommended for a number of years that the Minister of Finance conduct a cost/benefit analysis to determine whether to move to the HST. Previously the federal government's position was that all provinces converting adopt a 13% total tax, there were no exemptions possible, and there was no financial assistance with transition. Given the inflexible rules surrounding conversion and the fact that only a few provinces had moved to the HST, there was no benefit or compelling reason for BC to convert.
That all changed this spring. During the election period Ministry of Finance staff were conducting their inquiries regarding the HST and determined that we could set the HST at whatever percentage we wished, we could exempt up to 5% of all goods covered by GST, and there was 1.6 billion dollars available for transition funding. Most important, Ontario had moved to the HST and that would make many of our businesses non-competitive unless we too moved to the HST.
The best example I can think of is within our forestry industry. I am told that under the current PST system in the forestry sector, the cost of that tax on cut lumber is approx. $7.00/1000 board ft. At a time when forestry is struggling and lumber prices are down, that embedded PST can mean the difference between a mill being open or being forced to close. Prices within forestry are extremely competitive and under the HST, all of that provincial tax will be reclaimed thus reducing the cost of our forestry companies producing lumber. Forestry companies in Ontario were in the same position as those in BC with embedded provincial sales tax, but now that Ontario is converting to HST, their companies will see the cost decrease from converting to HST. Without HST, undoubtedly, we would see more forestry workers losing their employment. The HST will bring a total decrease in costs of an estimated 140 million dollars to the industry. That can account for a substantial number of jobs being saved or created. For many of us, this may not mean much, however for the many families highly affected, this is critical to their jobs.
The HST story is similar for many industries. We now live in a global world and our industries must compete against the rest of the world both in products we export, but also against products that are imported. We are a resource based economy with an emerging high tech industry. The HST is particularly beneficial to these sectors of our economy.
Unfortunately, there is much misinformation regarding the HST and that causes alarm. For example:
1. You may have read the viral email that says a seniors couple earning $41,000 annually will pay an additional $2100 per annum. That couple would actually have to spend an additional $30,000 annually on goods that are currently PST exempt to reach $2100 in extra costs. That is just not possible.
THE FACTS:
- For a family of 4 with a $60,000 annual income the true impact is $8.91 per month
-For a senior couple with a $30,000 annually, the impact is an additional ONE DOLLAR PER ANNUM
- For a family of 4 with a $90,000 income the impact will be an additional $14.83 per month.
- For a family of 4 with a $30,000 annual income there will actually be a $44.58 per month benefit. (because of the HST low income credit)
2. You may have heard that "Everything will cost more"
THE FACTS:
-The vast majority of retail items will see no tax change with HST.
examples are: - New cars, boats, trucks and RVs.
- Furniture and electronics
- Kitchenware and toiletries
- Hardware and tools
- Adult clothing
- Pet food
- Most groceries
- Car repairs
3. You may have heard "You will pay more for car insurance, home insurance, etc."
THE FACTS:
- These items are exempt from HST
4. You may have heard that "Staying warm and keeping the lights on will cost more"
THE FACTS:
- Home heating fuels are all eligible for a point of sale rebate and therefore will see no impact from the HST. These include:
- Oil and natural gas
- Residential electricity
- Propane
- Wood and wood pellets
5. You may have heard "The disabled will be hurt by additional cost for medical devices"
THE FACTS:
- The following will not attract HST:
- Hearing aids
- Heart-monitoring devices
- Hospital beds
- Breathing apparatus and asthmatic devices
- Prescription eyeglasses/contact lenses
- Dentures, crowns, bridges, and orthodontic appliances
- Wheelchairs, lifts, walkers, or locomotive aids
- Prosthetic devices, canes or crutches
- Aids for blind individuals
- Guide dogs for the blind and assistance dogs for other disabled persons.
- Supplies and services related to medical and assistive devices.
6. You might have heard that "Children's clothes and shoes will increase due to the HST"
THE FACTS:
- Children's sized clothing and shoes will not be subject to HST.
7. You may have heard that "HST will hurt small business"
THE FACTS:
-The HST will benefit most small businesses. It will replace the hidden sales tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store--even though you can't see it. Of course you also pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.
8. You may have heard that the "HST will hurt the most vulnerable low income families and individuals"
THE FACTS:
- Individuals with income up to $20,000 per annum will receive a $230 HST credit annually and families with income up to $25,000 will receive the $230 HST credit per family member.
9. You may have heard that "The HST will drive up costs for school boards and communities thus driving up property taxes"
THE FACTS:
- We are providing partial rebates of HST to municipalities, school boards, and health authorities to ensure on average their costs are no higher than under the PST structure.
10. You might have heard that "charities will suffer because of the HST"
THE FACTS:
-BC is providing eligible charities with a 57% rebate of the provincial portion of the HST paid. This is to ensure there is no additional cost for these charities and non-profit organizations.
Additionally we have increased the basic personal exemption amount tax credit from $9373 to $11,000. This provides a personal tax reduction of up to $80 per annum for single taxpayers and up to $160 per annum for taxpayers claiming a spouse. That change alone will cover the HST costs for many individuals.
Overall, I understand that most people do not support the change to the HST. Many are concerned that the government somehow knew before the election that we were going to the HST but withheld that from the public. As previously stated, this change was not contemplated prior to the election, but federal rules changed. Economist John Maynard Keynes when asked why he had changed his mind on something once said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do sir?"
The HST is good for our economy, for families who are concerned about their employment, and for the companies that provide that employment. I believe the HST will be of enormous benefit to families throughout BC. With 130 countries now converted to the HST and the majority of provinces converted we must also convert or lose competiveness and jobs.
I support the HST conversion because I believe it is the right thing for our province and I also believe politicians should do what they believe is right rather than what might be popular. For me, that is part of integrity.
Regards
Randy Hawes, MLA
Abbotsford - Mission
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From A Liberal MLA, it still amazes me why do they not list the items that are actually going to be taxed. ::)
I thought that Mr Vanderzalm had taken responsibility for publishing that list of items on his website ..... ;D
http://fighthst.com/revised-hst-hit-list-2010/ (http://fighthst.com/revised-hst-hit-list-2010/)
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I thought that Mr Vanderzalm had taken responsibility for publishing that list of items on his website ..... ;D
http://fighthst.com/revised-hst-hit-list-2010/ (http://fighthst.com/revised-hst-hit-list-2010/)
Well I guess someone had to as the government is to scared to do so but it really does not matter as the saying goes "They are done like dinner" ;D ;D
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I'm so impressed with the citizens standing up to politicians that lie they're face off to get into power, especially after the dismal turnout for the last election. It took a lot of shenanigans by Campbell Inc. until the slumbering masses woke up and they're not the happiest group I've seen woken up from the hypnosis of Campbell. As the light starts to shine on ALL of the crap, lies and outright manipulation they've pulled, the anger will continue to fester and the cockroaches will start scurrying for cover. I'm actually glad they brought in the GST as it exposed the arrogance that's been symbolic of the Liberals period of history in the province.
BTW- I was in Save On this morning, Leaf hats were marked down to 5.99 from 16.99, while Canuck hats were holding value. ;D ;D ;D
Well I guess someone had to as the government is to scared to do so but it really does not matter as the saying goes "They are done like dinner" ;D ;D
Tiger Williams was the first to use the "done like dinner" wordage.
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From Van:
To: All British Columbians
What began as a simple tax protest has turned into an outright demand for democracy from an increasingly out of touch and dictatorial government in Victoria.
Our petition has exploded onto the scene in BC, with tens of thousands of signatures in just the first two weeks. We have already met or exceeded our targets in a number of ridings around BC, but people continue to sign in an effort to send a bigger and bigger message to government:
“We want democracy! We want to be heard! We want the politicians we elect to serve us, not the other way around!”
Much of this movement is a reaction to the unbelievably arrogant and intractable statements by the premier and many of his MLAs. News 1130 Radio on April 15 reported the following statement by the premier: Premier Gordon Campbell says it doesn't matter how many signatures the "No" forces gather. "The HST has been done. We are moving forward with it…”
It doesn’t matter how many citizens sign the petition? It doesn’t matter how many people oppose his policy? It doesn’t matter how many voters reject the direction of his government? They are going to do it anyway?
Does that sound like the Canada we all once knew? Does that sound like the freedom and democracy our ancestors fought and died for in two successive world wars? What is the point of electing MLAs to represent our wishes in Victoria if all they do is represent Victoria’s wishes to us instead?
I want to encourage everyone who cares about democracy in BC to sign our petition. We had originally hoped to get 15% of registered voters’ signatures (more than the 10% required) in every riding to ensure victory. But now, many are saying they want to go even higher to send the government a message.
From Nanaimo to Kelowna, to Kitimat and Courtenay, to Williams Lake and White Rock, to Salmon Arm and Cranbrook, and all points inbetween, people are signing in droves. In the North Peace, they have already signed 30% of the registered voters there. That is more people than actually voted for the government in the last election!
The Citizen Initiative petition is the greatest tool we have ever had to hold the government’s feet to the fire. It is the greatest chance we have ever had to tell the politicians that BC and Canada is a government of and for the people, not people of and for the government.
Keep signing the petition. Let’s get as many signatures as we can.
Let’s send the government a message they will never forget!
Bill Vander Zalm
Leader, Fight HST
aYup! ;D
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From Van:
aYup! ;D
Nog,
We as of this evening have got 15% in our two ridings in Chilliwack already. ;D ;D ;D Going for more though. ;D
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From a small business on the GST
I own a manufacturing company, typical I believe, with 1.5-3 million in sales a year over last 4 years, and 10-12 employees at any given time, in Delta...all probably typical for a small manufacturer...we make very automated machines primary for food, pharmaceutical, and plastics industries.
I had our bookkeeper spend a day exporting the last few years data and then using Excel making a figure that represents how those years would have been with HST instead of PST/GST.
We would have saved, oh yes indeed!
A whomping .3% to .5%. Not 3%, NOT 5%....POINT 3% or POINT 5%! Less than 1% savings from this huge change to my company, which will never offset the added tax on every-ones personal spending!
What savings am I going to pass on to our customers? I must now upgrade our accounting software, and be patient as our staff figure out the new rules...there is no savings , you are 100% correct.
I was at a Langley City (where I live) open house and the local MLA Marry Polak commented strongly that there would be huge savings as manufactures could have HST rebated...
...I commented that manufactures are currently PST exempt and GST ITC rebated...so I asked where are the savings from?? Where? How?
Honestly, she looked surprised and politely told me she has been assured there is a savings for manufactures...so I ask...anyone...where is this savings coming from, what am I missing?
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From a small business on the GST
I own a manufacturing company, typical I believe, with 1.5-3 million in sales a year over last 4 years, and 10-12 employees at any given time, in Delta...all probably typical for a small manufacturer...we make very automated machines primary for food, pharmaceutical, and plastics industries.
I had our bookkeeper spend a day exporting the last few years data and then using Excel making a figure that represents how those years would have been with HST instead of PST/GST.
We would have saved, oh yes indeed!
A whomping .3% to .5%. Not 3%, NOT 5%....POINT 3% or POINT 5%! Less than 1% savings from this huge change to my company, which will never offset the added tax on every-ones personal spending!
What savings am I going to pass on to our customers? I must now upgrade our accounting software, and be patient as our staff figure out the new rules...there is no savings , you are 100% correct.
I was at a Langley City (where I live) open house and the local MLA Marry Polak commented strongly that there would be huge savings as manufactures could have HST rebated...
...I commented that manufactures are currently PST exempt and GST ITC rebated...so I asked where are the savings from?? Where? How?
Honestly, she looked surprised and politely told me she has been assured there is a savings for manufactures...so I ask...anyone...where is this savings coming from, what am I missing?
Good for you for asking the question of Mary, the trouble most of them don't really know about the HST as they are just saying what they have been told to say. Come 2012 they will be losing their good paying jobs and will be back in the general work force. ;D
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We would have saved, oh yes indeed!
A whomping .3% to .5%.
This reminds me of that credit card commercial where the first lady uses her credit card and gets $2 cash credit on her grocery bill and while she is happy with that, her friend who used cash says (sarcastically): "You saved a whopping $2???"
The first lady responds: "Ya, and how much did you save?"
You know the expression... look after your pennies and the dollars will look after themselves! :D
Novabonkers example is not typical. Manufactures are PST exempt however only on products that will be resold! Any equipment they buy in order to do the manufacturing is not PST exempt! Imagine the savings that a business has if it buys a half million dollar piece of equipment for it's manufacturing operation.
The HST will encourage businesses to update their technology which in turn will make them more productive and therefore more competitive!
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This reminds me of that credit card commercial where the first lady uses her credit card and gets $2 cash credit on her grocery bill and while she is happy with that, her friend who used cash says (sarcastically): "You saved a whopping $2???"
The first lady responds: "Ya, and how much did you save?"
You know the expression... look after your pennies and the dollars will look after themselves! :D
Novabonkers example is not typical. Manufactures are PST exempt however only on products that will be resold! Any equipment they buy in order to do the manufacturing is not PST exempt! Imagine the savings that a business has if it buys a half million dollar piece of equipment for it's manufacturing operation.
The HST will encourage businesses to update their technology which in turn will make them more productive and therefore more competitive!
Tell that to the restaurant business, or in my case, the carpet cleaning business. Or many more that weren't previously taxed or required to collect. My COL price increase goes to the government. But if you say it enough times it will be true-- NOT
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/fallingondeafears.jpg)
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Nog,
We as of this evening have got 15% in our two ridings in Chilliwack already. ;D ;D ;D Going for more though. ;D
Make a mistake on this it is closer to 20%. and this is in a Liberal hot bed. Opps another mistake, it used to be. ;D ;D ;D
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Made a mistake on this it is closer to 20%......
Looks like you probably won't need my signature after all..... :D
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Looks like you probably won't need my signature after all..... :D
They will not turn you down. ;D ;D
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They will not turn you down. ;D ;D
(http://bestsmileys.com/lol/20.gif) ;D
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Still trying to convince Alwaysfishin, check the last sentence. ;D
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/05/04/BadWeekForDemocracy/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=040510
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Looking good!
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/05/04/bc-hst-petition-milestone.html#socialcomments
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Still trying to convince Alwaysfishin, check the last sentence. ;D
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/05/04/BadWeekForDemocracy/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=040510
It's the second last sentence that concerns me the most...... :o ;D
"........ close to 200,000 voters sign the petition so far because they were misinformed ........"
However, I would question everything that was written by Bill Tieleman, the former communications director (mouthpiece) to NDP premier Glenn Clark! :D
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AF- Why do you claim anyone who opposes the HST as ignorant as your last post would suggest about the 200,000 who signed? I believe the majority of my fellow British Columbians to have a degree of intelligence and sophistication, and are judging this as they see it - a dishonest move by the Liberals that has the people so fed up, they'll deal with it with the only tools they have.It may indeed be a boon for the economy ( I doubt that highly) but the utter lack of candor since the introduction, any form of consultation , outright lies during the campaign and spurious claims about Ontario forcing their hand are deeply disturbing. It's galling bull$hit and the citizens are saying they're fed up with lies and being told they're dumb if they don't understand. We understand and we don't like it enough to stand up and be counted. And that's a good thing as people will start paying a bit more attention to whatever flavour is in power.
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AF- Why do you claim anyone who opposes the HST as ignorant as your last post would suggest about the 200,000 who signed? I believe the majority of my fellow British Columbians to have a degree of intelligence and sophistication, and are judging this as they see it - a dishonest move by the Liberals that has the people so fed up, they'll deal with it with the only tools they have.It may indeed be a boon for the economy ( I doubt that highly) but the utter lack of candor since the introduction, any form of consultation , outright lies during the campaign and spurious claims about Ontario forcing their hand are deeply disturbing. It's galling bull$hit and the citizens are saying they're fed up with lies and being told they're dumb if they don't understand. We understand and we don't like it enough to stand up and be counted. And that's a good thing as people will start paying a bit more attention to whatever flavour is in power.
Novabonker ...... Chill out!!!
If you actually read the link that Chris provided you would see that I pulled a quote out of that article by Tieleman the anti everything mouth of the NDP. You'll also see that I took the quote totally out of context.... purposely. :D But it was a joke which was supposed to be illustrated by the em-icons I used. ???
Dang, I hate it when i need to explain my jokes! ::)
However I do believe that 85% of the people that signed the petition have no idea what they were signing other than ... "Another tax?? ?? Of course I'll sign your petition!" ;D ;D
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but the utter lack of candor since the introduction, any form of consultation , outright lies during the campaign and spurious claims about Ontario forcing their hand are deeply disturbing. It's galling bull$hit and the citizens are saying they're fed up with lies and being told they're dumb if they don't understand. We understand and we don't like it enough to stand up and be counted. And that's a good thing as people will start paying a bit more attention to whatever flavour is in power.
I doubt that people will pay more attention in the future....
I was listening to a CBC program on the British elections. Everyone is totally disillusioned with the politicians and they don't trust them. As a result they will probably end up with a minority or coalition government.
The conclusion that was drawn is that although the people recognize that tough tax and spending measures need to be put into place, they mistrust the candidates because none of them are addressing the need to take the tough measures. On the other hand the voters admitted that they probably wouldn't vote for a politician who proposed tough measures.
The politicians were totally avoiding the tough measures topic because they knew that if they were honest about what was needed (more taxes less spending) that they would lose the election.
Look at Greece, people are protesting and burning down buildings because they won't accept that the government needs to take tough taxing and spending measures in order to turn the country around!
The point is; this is exactly what is happening with Canadian politics. The electorate won't vote for a politician that is honest with them up front, so they vote for someone that is lying to them and then they get upset when the lying politician turns around and does the right things. You tell me whether the electorate is smart or dumb?? Are the politicians to blame or is the electorate to blame?
I just happen to support the party that does the right thing in the end, regardless what they have said they would or wouldn't do. They are there to do a job, not to win a popularity contest!
The leaders of the anti-HST group see an opportunity to exploit the "dumbness" of the electorate because they believe they can further there own political agenda. In other words they are lying to you and you are voting for them. ???
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Heading to a Town Hall Meeting with Bill today in Hope to hear some good news. ;D ;D ;D
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Heading to a Town Hall Meeting with Bill today in Hope to hear some good news. ;D ;D ;D
What, he's realized the errors of his ways and is going to support the HST?
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What, he's realized the errors of his ways and is going to support the HST?
;D ;D ;D I will pass your good wishes on to him for you and alwaysfishin.
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Just a thought, but I sure would like to be tax exempt on the money I make as an individual, but that is the cost of living in this great province of ours. So why should businesses be tax exempt for goods and services provincially and federally? Is this not the cost of doing business in our province?
If there are any small business owners on the board, I would be curious how much they pay in taxes on the revenue/profits they generate.
Was thinking of registering myself as a business and contracting out my labour and writing off my expenses related to my employment, might be a better value in the long run.
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If there are any small business owners on the board, I would be curious how much they pay in taxes on the revenue/profits they generate.
Was thinking of registering myself as a business and contracting out my labour and writing off my expenses related to my employment, might be a better value in the long run.
Send me a PM.
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Excellent, please keep us updated
Good turn and thousands of names on petitions for Chillwack and Chillwack Hope ridings were given to Bill.
He said this was fantastic. ;D ;D ;D
Ted Field from Global was there so there will be some coverage on the news this evening.
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Chris and the Zalm happy about the anti HST petition drive
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m53/shortfloater/IMG_1957.jpg)
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geez Chris- You were my hero until I saw that hoodie..... ;)
Do you know how long it takes until Elections BC to approve my application? I've got lots of friends and family wanting to promote democracy...
On the bright side, it appears that the Recall initiative may not be needed in Kash Heed's riding ;)
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Heed+could+lose+seat+probe+reveals+overspending/2993165/story.html
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I think we should ask Rodney to change the title of this thread from "Fight the HST" to "Complain about the Liberals".
That way Chris and I wouldn't need to keep asking people to stay focused! ;D ;D
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geez Chris- You were my hero until I saw that hoodie..... ;)
Do you know how long it takes until Elections BC to approve my application? I've got lots of friends and family wanting to promote democracy...
On the bright side, it appears that the Recall initiative may not be needed in Kash Heed's riding ;)
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Heed+could+lose+seat+probe+reveals+overspending/2993165/story.html
They are very busy so hard to say but I will PM you Bill's e mail address so you can check with him if you wish and thanks for helping out.
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I think we should ask Rodney to change the title of this thread from "Fight the HST" to "Complain about the Liberals".
That way Chris and I wouldn't need to keep asking people to stay focused! ;D ;D
Here, let me spell out the relevance so you might glean some understanding of the post as it obviously was missed by you. The Liberals will let the citizen's initiative die on the order paper, or kill it in some way by ignoring,disregarding or enacting some BS. The next step is recall- the post was about one riding that recall possibly won't be needed because of election gerrymandering . I hope you can now understand the way the two are connected. If that doesn't help , I'll type slower ;)
Any supporters of Fight HST on the North Shore can attend a rally at the Pinnacle Hotel, at Esplanade and Lonsdale , Sunday at 7 PM.
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Here, let me spell out the relevance so you might glean some understanding of the post as it obviously was missed by you. The Liberals will let the citizen's initiative die on the order paper, or kill it in some way by ignoring,disregarding or enacting some BS. The next step is recall- the post was about one riding that recall possibly won't be needed because of election gerrymandering . I hope you can now understand the way the two are connected. If that doesn't help , I'll type slower ;)
Any supporters of Fight HST on the North Shore can attend a rally at the Pinnacle Hotel, at Esplanade and Lonsdale , Sunday at 7 PM.
I admire your strategy (or is that Bill's strategy). Right now I believe the Libs have 49 seats and the NDP have 36 seats. Are you telling me that the next step is to recall at least 14 MP's? ???
Let me be the first to wish you luck! :D
I've tried typing slower lately as well, but it doesn't appear to have made any difference..... ::)
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Gee I thought this was a fishing site, it seems to be more an NDP site right now with lets bash the liberals.
I know one thing for sure, if you guys hate Gordon, just imagine what it would be like under Carole.
Before any recalls or any other actions got get rid of Carole who is pretty much useless.
Oh how soon we forget Clark and the other cronies and all their corruption and boondoggles.
Its very simple let vote the NDP in, on the pretense of saving the fish (which is federal not provincial anyway) and destroy the economy with the NDP's idiotic policies.
As for the HST as I said before, I've done all the calculations and at the end of the day as a farmer I come out a head. I.e. Making money.
Unlike the rest of the sheep out there my decision is based on study and calculation not listening to rhetoric fromany of the political hacks on both side of the issue.
cheers and lets get back to fishing!!
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As for the HST as I said before, I've done all the calculations and at the end of the day as a farmer I come out a head. I.e. Making money.
correct me if i am wrong, but sure you will make more money at the customers expense. ie, the customer will have to pay more and therefore, could drop demand of your products. and therefore actually make you loose money?
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correct me if i am wrong, but sure you will make more money at the customers expense. ie, the customer will have to pay more and therefore, could drop demand of your products. and therefore actually make you loose money?
I'll correct you if you're wrong(and you are) ....... :D
There will not be any HST charged on the bread, milk and eggs or even the meat that you as a consumer will buy! So you'll probably be eating as much or more after HST is introduced. ;D
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I'll correct you if you're wrong(and you are) ....... :D
There will not be any HST charged on the bread, milk and eggs or even the meat that you as a consumer will buy! So you'll probably be eating as much or more after HST is introduced. ;D
So where do you make up the shortfall to government coffers from the tax the farmer isn't paying any more ?
(Hint - Look on the back of the consumer)
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So where do you make up the shortfall to government coffers from the tax the farmer isn't paying any more ?
The farmer will make more money(less taxes) so he'll have the money to expand his business and in the process will need more labour.
Labor pays taxes ..... making up the shortfall. 8)
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but what about the businesses that provide services that are subject to the HST. those consumers will have to pay more, will they not?
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but what about the businesses that provide services that are subject to the HST. those consumers will have to pay more, will they not?
Take a furniture manufacturer. Before HST when they spend $100,000 on new equipment it will cost them an extra $7000 for PST plus $5000 for GST. They can claim back the $5000 GST, however the $7000 PST cannot be claimed back so the total outlay is $107,000.
After HST it will cost them a total of $12000 for HST however all of that can be claimed back. Total outlay is $100,000.
Because the equipment is more expensive before HST, the business needs to charge more for the furniture than they will need to charge after HST.
When the consumer buys furniture today they pay PST + GST = 12%. After HST it will still cost the consumer 12%, but on a lower base price.
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The farmer will make more money(less taxes) so he'll have the money to expand his business and in the process will need more labour.
Labor pays taxes ..... making up the shortfall. 8)
LOL - you're grasping at straws AF.Not that the fairy tale of Reaganomics hasn't been proven to be a codswallop many times , at least you didn't march out the albatross on lower prices to the consumer...... ::) ::)
Let's make it simple - Government loses revenue from business,but makes up for lost revenue by adding to consumers. Sugar coat this any way you like, that's the fact.
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Three reasons HST is a great idea for B.C.
By Elisabeth Gugl and Stephen Hume, Vancouver Sun May 7, 2010
Bill Vander Zalm's movement to take back democracy by repealing the harmonized sales tax is picking up steam. By exploiting the provincial government's fumbling of the HST, the former British Columbia premier has taken a page out of Sarah Palin's populist playbook. His critics say the anti-HST movement is a Trojan horse. Inside the horse aren't Greeks waiting to conquer Troy, but Vander Zalm himself, grinning, waiting to return to electoral politics.
A storm is brewing around the HST. But the HST will be good for B.C. and consumers. The revenue from taxes helps pay for our quality of life and the services we enjoy. But what is it about consumption taxes that people hate so much? Maybe it's because they are reminded of the tax every time they buy something. That's why cutting consumption taxes makes for such good politics, but very bad economics.
The HST combines the five-per-cent federal tax, the goods and services tax, and the seven per cent provincial tax to make a combined 12 per cent tax. The HST applies the same method of tax collection as the GST and taxes the same goods -- with a few exceptions.
Here are three reasons why adopting the HST is a good idea:
. If you want a consumption tax, make it a value-added tax like the HST. Both the PST and the HST are taxes that are supposed to tax consumer goods but not business inputs. However, the PST is terrible at making this distinction. The HST would correct this. It accomplishes this by being a value added tax; when a firm sells its product, it charges 12-per-cent tax on the sale price but can claim a credit for the taxes it already paid on the purchases of the materials necessary to produce its product. As such, there is no need to define categories of goods as either consumption goods or business inputs; through the invoice-credit system, the use of a particular product is clearly identified. This way, a restaurant owner purchasing tables and chairs for the restaurant would not pay the tax, but if the restaurant owner purchased the same products to furnish his or her home, he or she would pay the tax.
. The HST will broaden the tax base and lower tax inefficiencies. On average, consumers will be better off under the HST than the PST. The HST streamlines the way B.C. collects its taxes and will save the province and firms money through lower accounting and administrative costs. Second, because the HST taxes consumers on a broader range of goods than the PST and exempts firms from paying taxes on their inputs, goods are produced more efficiently. When in 1991 the federal government replaced the federal sales tax (also known under its original name as the manufacturers' sales tax) with the revenue-neutral GST, gross domestic product gains attributed to the tax reform were estimated to be at least $1.9 billion. Consumers may feel upset because under the HST they would pay a 12-per-cent tax rate on more goods than under the current system of GST/PST. But what they should also consider is that sales prices under the HST and PST would not be the same, because many firms will be able to produce at lower cost under the HST. These savings are passed on to consumers driving down sale prices.
. The HST will boost firms' investment and this will help secure jobs. It's important to take into account the impact the HST will have on the level of production. As firms pay less to produce their products and services, they will invest more in equipment and machinery. University of Toronto economist Michael Smart estimated that annual machinery and equipment investment rose 12.1 per cent above the trend level in the Atlantic provinces when they harmonized their sales taxes with the GST in the 1990s. (Quebec had the HST right from the start when the GST was introduced in 1990; Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick harmonized their sales taxes with the GST in 1997). As of July, Ontario also will have an HST, and we are competing with Ontario for jobs.
Will the HST be good for B.C.? It's pretty clear that it will, no matter what your politics.
Elisabeth Gugl and Stephen E. Hume are faculty members in the economics department at the University of Victoria.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Three+reasons+great+idea/2997877/story.html#ixzz0nY1bXYet
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that furniture sure isnt made out of wood cause we export the raw logs so some other country can manufacture it just for us to buy it back...lmao...what a joke...holmes*
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that furniture sure isnt made out of wood cause we export the raw logs so some other country can manufacture it just for us to buy it back...lmao...what a joke...holmes*
That's a topic for a completely different discussion. Not to mention a little bit false. I know of several furniture makers who use raw materials harvested from right here in BC. None of it is mass produced though, so maybe they don't count.
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ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING is right Chris - 400,000 signatures and counting. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/LOL-Monty_Python_Applause.gif)
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Part of Vanderzalm's canned speech talks about how the HST was repealed in Saskatchewan a couple years after it was implemented.....
"Saskatchewan implemented the HST in 1989 and then got rid of it after two years, bringing back its own provincial sales tax instead, Vander Zalm said."
He doesn't have the dates right but who cares when you're rolling rolling rolling. ::) So he continues to preach that the HST is not a done deal, that it can be repealed in BC as well....
Here's what actually happened in Saskatchewan.....
Just weeks after the GST took effect nationally on Jan. 1, 1991, the then Saskatchewan government of Premier Grant Devine announced it would harmonize the province's seven-per-cent sales tax with the seven-percent federal levy. On sweeping to power on Oct. 21, 1991, the New Democratic Party under new premier Roy Romanow lost little time consigning the harmonization to the ash heap of provincial history, along with Devine and his Conservatives.
NDP finance minister Ed Tchorzewski "estimated" the savings to provincial taxpayers from repeal at $72 million for the remainder of the budget year and $140 million over a full year. Relief for Saskatchewan taxpayers was short-lived, however. The following spring Tchorzewski launched a better than $200-million tax grab of his own, boosting income, tobacco and fuel taxes and -- irony of ironies-- boosting the restored provincial sales tax by a full point to eight per cent.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html)
But I'm sure that would never happen here...... ;D
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ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING is right Chris - 400,000 signatures and counting. Isn't democracy a wonderful thing?
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/LOL-Monty_Python_Applause.gif)
Love it. ;D
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Part of Vanderzalm's canned speech talks about how the HST was repealed in Saskatchewan a couple years after it was implemented.....
"Saskatchewan implemented the HST in 1989 and then got rid of it after two years, bringing back its own provincial sales tax instead, Vander Zalm said."
He doesn't have the dates right but who cares when you're rolling rolling rolling. ::) So he continues to preach that the HST is not a done deal, that it can be repealed in BC as well....
Here's what actually happened in Saskatchewan.....
Just weeks after the GST took effect nationally on Jan. 1, 1991, the then Saskatchewan government of Premier Grant Devine announced it would harmonize the province's seven-per-cent sales tax with the seven-percent federal levy. On sweeping to power on Oct. 21, 1991, the New Democratic Party under new premier Roy Romanow lost little time consigning the harmonization to the ash heap of provincial history, along with Devine and his Conservatives.
NDP finance minister Ed Tchorzewski "estimated" the savings to provincial taxpayers from repeal at $72 million for the remainder of the budget year and $140 million over a full year. Relief for Saskatchewan taxpayers was short-lived, however. The following spring Tchorzewski launched a better than $200-million tax grab of his own, boosting income, tobacco and fuel taxes and -- irony of ironies-- boosting the restored provincial sales tax by a full point to eight per cent.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/opponents+take+heart+from+Saskatchewan+example/2983922/story.html)
But I'm sure that would never happen here...... ;D
Getting nervous? What is it about grassroots democracy that you find offensive? ??? ??? ???
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Getting nervous? What is it about grassroots democracy that you find offensive? ??? ??? ???
I'm not nervous because the petition has no bite.
All it is doing is providing a means for a few politicians like Bill to gain some visibility so that they can run in the next election. As illustrated in Saskatchewan, the NDP came in promising to eliminate the HST in order to save the public $140 million and once elected increased the taxes by $200 million. In the process they kept their business less competitive with their next door neighbors. That's what I find offensive..
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I could do with a little less growth in our province ;D Bye Bye Libs
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In the process they kept their business less competitive with their next door neighbors. That's what I find offensive..
I'm willing to bet Alberta based business with no HST will support that theory as well. Tell me what the HST is going to do to any business near the border? That's so full of holes all I can do is grimace for anyone running a business anywhere within a few hundred miles of the provincial boundaries.
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I'm willing to bet Alberta based business with no HST will support that theory as well. Tell me what the HST is going to do to any business near the border? That's so full of holes all I can do is grimace for anyone running a business anywhere within a few hundred miles of the provincial boundaries.
It will allow the BC business to be on a level playing field with the Alberta business. Under HST the cost of the BC products won't include PST just like in Alberta.
As far as the consumer is concerned there is no difference pre or post HST....
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LOL -You miss the painfully obvious- the consumer will travel across the border to avoid a 13% premium on purchases. Any business in that sector is being tossed to the wolves. ::)
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Whhoooops - double post.
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LOL -You miss the painfully obvious- the consumer will travel across the border to avoid a 13% premium on purchases. Any business in that sector is being tossed to the wolves. ::)
Wow! You got me on that one..... :o
Maybe you can explain how that changes anything from the 7% PST and 5% GST that the same consumer pays today and how that will suddenly toss businesses to the wolves? ::)
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Only these things?
Your HST imposes 7% tax on many services/goods not taxed by the old PST, including: Accounting, Entertainments Admission (Hockey, concert, movies) Fees, Airline/private bus/rail/taxi/limo fares, Appliance repair & maintenance, Architects, Attractions / Events, Basic Cable TV, Bicycles, Campgrounds, Catering, Chinese medicine, Coffee shops, Compost, Computer servicing, Condo management fees, Consulting services, Dietary supplements, Dry cleaning, Energy equipment, Fast food & Beverages, Fire extinguishers, First aid kits, Fishing charters, Funeral services, Golf fees, Hair cuts, Facility Rentals, Health equipment, Helmets, tickets, Home appraisals/inspections/ maintenance/renovations’/ Reroofing labour, Insulation, Investment Counselling fees, Life jackets, Magazines/newspapers, Marketing services, Massage therapy, Membership fees, (Boat) Moorage, Moving Costs, Naturopathy, New Homes (some rebates applicable), Non-prescription medications, Painting, Parking, Photography, Real estate fees, Reflexology, Wedding (Canopy, Tuxedo etc.) rentals/Planner, Restaurant meals, RV park fees, Safety equipment (Not all safety and Energy Equipment is affected), School supplies, Skiing, Smoke detectors, Solar power, Some groceries, Spa/fitness services, Storage lockers, Telephone (Basic landline) Veterinarian, Vitamins, Wedding, Property Rentals/Strata fees (since increased maintenance/other costs will increase rent/strata fees)
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Only these things?
Your HST imposes 7% tax on many services/goods not taxed by the old PST, including: Accounting, Entertainments Admission (Hockey, concert, movies) Fees, Airline/private bus/rail/taxi/limo fares, Appliance repair & maintenance, Architects, Attractions / Events, Basic Cable TV, Bicycles, Campgrounds, Catering, Chinese medicine, Coffee shops, Compost, Computer servicing, Condo management fees, Consulting services, Dietary supplements, Dry cleaning, Energy equipment, Fast food & Beverages, Fire extinguishers, First aid kits, Fishing charters, Funeral services, Golf fees, Hair cuts, Facility Rentals, Health equipment, Helmets, tickets, Home appraisals/inspections/ maintenance/renovations’/ Reroofing labour, Insulation, Investment Counselling fees, Life jackets, Magazines/newspapers, Marketing services, Massage therapy, Membership fees, (Boat) Moorage, Moving Costs, Naturopathy, New Homes (some rebates applicable), Non-prescription medications, Painting, Parking, Photography, Real estate fees, Reflexology, Wedding (Canopy, Tuxedo etc.) rentals/Planner, Restaurant meals, RV park fees, Safety equipment (Not all safety and Energy Equipment is affected), School supplies, Skiing, Smoke detectors, Solar power, Some groceries, Spa/fitness services, Storage lockers, Telephone (Basic landline) Veterinarian, Vitamins, Wedding, Property Rentals/Strata fees (since increased maintenance/other costs will increase rent/strata fees)
Yup, BC is going to pack up and move to Alberta... ;D
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In this post you throw out the "13% premium on purchases" implying it's on everything.....
LOL -You miss the painfully obvious- the consumer will travel across the border to avoid a 13% premium on purchases. Any business in that sector is being tossed to the wolves. ::)
Then in the next post....
Your HST imposes 7% tax on many services/goods not taxed by the old PST, including: .......
I'm just trying to keep the discussion real! ::)
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Since when does 7 + 5 = 13? Is that the new populist math? ???
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The new tax also applies to kids clothes. If your kid wears big shoes and large clothing it is now taxed !! ::) So if you want to save some money don't buy much food (taxed) for your kids as this will grow them large . When they start to wear adult size clothes while still a juvenile you will be taxed on that. woohoo !! Douchers
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Which food is being taxed? As I understand it, basic groceries are exempt.
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Which food is being taxed? As I understand it, basic groceries are exempt.
Write to the Finance Minister Hansen and see if he will tell you. ;D
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Which food is being taxed? As I understand it, basic groceries are exempt.
hahaha as if you understand it :o
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Write to the Finance Minister Hansen and see if he will tell you. ;D
Too busy dreaming up excuses for poor government. ;D ;D ;D
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hahaha as if you understand it :o
I think I do. If you go to the Canada Revenue website and read their memoranda on taxable food items, you too can see what is and isn't going to be taxed. To put it in a nut shell that you can understand, if you don't pay GST on it now, you won't pay HST on it. Next time you go grocery shopping, look at your receipt and see what items you are charge GST on. You'll see that it is the processed junk foods like candy, chips, sodas, etc. Those will continue to be charged tax when the HST is introduced. You wont pay HST on your basic groceries, such as dairy, meats, vegetables, etc. One could argue that the healthier your diet, the less you'll pay in taxes. Not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
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One could argue that the healthier your diet, the less you'll pay in taxes.
I like that! In fact most fast food and restaurant food will fall in that category!
Another reason the HST is good! Fights obesity, Fights cavities, Fights diabetes, Promotes healthy living.
In the long run it will lower the health care costs in BC.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Vanderzalm! ;D ;D
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Why Campbell's HST Is Bad for the Planet
Fossil fuels are exempted, making the carbon tax a joke. Here's a better idea.
By Guy Dauncey
http://goto.thetyee.ca/t?ctl=1664549:01C07E6214D807F95FB9758A179CA20A8F7D795DAFB9E650&
Wednesday, May 12, 2010
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http://thecanadian.org/k2/item/116-rafe-vander-zalm
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"Bill Vander Zalm, who has, by the way, also predicted the HST will expand to take in the U.S. and Mexico and eventually be controlled from Brussels, Belgium, as part of a conspiratorial New World Order"
And then I understand the Martians will be controling everything from outer space.... ;D ;D
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"Bill Vander Zalm, who has, by the way, also predicted the HST will expand to take in the U.S. and Mexico and eventually be controlled from Brussels, Belgium, as part of a conspiratorial New World Order"
And then I understand the Martians will be controling everything from outer space.... ;D ;D
Geez AF- you need a new writer- you said the same thing in another thread. ;)
Campbell- "We HAVE to find a way to fund oil tax breaks"
Hansen" Let's tax childrens clothes! We can put a ridiculous size limit and VOILA! We get the money and give it to oil companies!"
Shameless, disgusting and lower than a snake's belly- all I would expect from the pack of 'MIND CHANGERS BY DECEPTION" :o :o
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I think you will find the HST list here put out by the soon to be deceased Lib's. Follow the links.
::)
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/news/93810589.html
Opps just saw this above the list, (This is not an exhaustive list of all goods and services.) I guess they still are not giving us the complete list. Why put things that have no change when most of us would like to see a complete list of the new items we will be faced paying the HST on ?
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You can go to the Canada Revenue website and read their memoranda which lists taxable and non-taxable items in considerable detail.
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You can go to the Canada Revenue website and read their memoranda which lists taxable and non-taxable items in considerable detail.
Thanks, post the link if you wish. I hope it just a plain list and not a lot of confusing other statements like the Province has been posting.
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http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/menu-eng.html
It's not a simple list, I'm afraid, but it's all there if you care to read through it.
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http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/menu-eng.html
It's not a simple list, I'm afraid, but it's all there if you care to read through it.
Thanks, I just donot understand why the don't put a list 1 through 50 or what ever number of items we will be subject to the 12% tax and be done with it. The more they avoid doing so the unhappier we, the general taxpayer gets. Maybe they now know they have reached the point of no return and realize they are history come 2013 if not before if a recall is called.
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I think the list that has been published is probably all that is necessary for the average consumer. It seems to cover all the things that I might encounter during the course of my day to day living. It covers consumer goods and services that you or I might need regularly or even occasionally. The memoranda on the Canada Revenue site goes into the specifics of that and more. By more, I mean the things that you or I typically wouldn't be concerned with. That is, taxes implemented for trade, production, etc. It's all there for anyone to read. Do we really need to be spending more money to have a government department assemble a list when the information is already available?
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I think the list that has been published is probably all that is necessary for the average consumer. It seems to cover all the things that I might encounter during the course of my day to day living. It covers consumer goods and services that you or I might need regularly or even occasionally. The memoranda on the Canada Revenue site goes into the specifics of that and more. By more, I mean the things that you or I typically wouldn't be concerned with. That is, taxes implemented for trade, production, etc. It's all there for anyone to read. Do we really need to be spending more money to have a government department assemble a list when the information is already available?
yes!
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yes!
Why? It'd be a waste of money (i.e. more of your and my tax dollars).
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Why? It'd be a waste of money (i.e. more of your and my tax dollars).
Do you want a list of tax money wasted by the ruling aristocracy? LOL- I can't use up that much bandwidth in all fairness to our host. They had a million bucks for Olympic tickets, yet they can't put together a comprehensive list of items that will cost more because of their deceit by mind change ::). That smells as bad as the crap about dumped records in the BC Rail case because electronic storage was too expensive. Same stuff that comes from the north end of a southbound male bovine. Don't they know how to cut and paste? ;D ;D
Here's a link- Incomplete (after 10 months) and dumped as usual with the trash on Friday afternoon, hoping no one would notice it amongst the coffee grinds and chip bags. Typical. ::) ::) ::)
https://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/GST_PST_HST_List.pdf
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Take a furniture manufacturer. Before HST when they spend $100,000 on new equipment it will cost them an extra $7000 for PST plus $5000 for GST. They can claim back the $5000 GST, however the $7000 PST cannot be claimed back so the total outlay is $107,000.
After HST it will cost them a total of $12000 for HST however all of that can be claimed back. Total outlay is $100,000.
Because the equipment is more expensive before HST, the business needs to charge more for the furniture than they will need to charge after HST.
When the consumer buys furniture today they pay PST + GST = 12%. After HST it will still cost the consumer 12%, but on a lower base price.
I guess this may be true... somewhat, first off, no manufacturer buys that kind of capital equipment on a regular basis, none that I've work for any how (multimillion$ sales revenue/year)
There is already a production equipment and machine exeption in place (PM&ME) for these kinds of capital purchases, so a manufacturer is already exempt from paying PST., and the GST is taken back when submitting GST to Revenue Canada, so unless I'm wrong (and it happens) your point is moot.
And believe me, after a company lays out that kind of money, do you honestly beleive there will be much savings to be passed on to the consumer? I would say at best it allows a manufacturer to expand thier product line, and perhaps hire more employees, but since they dont pay PST or GST on these kinds of purchases already, once again dare I say it...MOOT.
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Delta – Former BC premier, Bill Vander Zalm, says his Fight HST team has completed a thorough analysis of the BC Government’s newly provided HST “list” that supposedly shows which items will be affected by HST, and says over 30 items are “missing in action”.
“We spent some time reviewing the list and have determined it is totally bogus. The government has, once again, deliberately tried to mislead the public when it comes to the HST. They just can’t seem to ever tell the truth,’ said Vander Zalm.
Vander Zalm says the list excludes almost all "services" that will now have HST applied to them.
“They left out items such as; catering; computer repair services; consulting services; commercial leases; fishing charters; home appraisals; investment counseling; limousine rentals; skiing; and even parking fees!”
Vander Zalm says that the HST applies to virtually every service that the GST applied to, so the government has no excuse for not knowing which items should have been included.
Vander Zalm says they are also playing games with HST applying on new home construction. He says the government list indicates “no change” to new homes under $525,000, with a confusing, small print footnote indicating “embedded PST of 2%” on new homes under $525K.
“The truth is, even after HST rebates new homes under $525,000 will have approximately 2% more tax added to them in HST. That means on a new house worth $300,000, buyers will pay an additional $6,000 in HST. On a big ticket item like a new home, that is a ton of money taken from consumers.”
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ROLLING, ROLLING, ROLLING
Anyone seen AF?
72 down, 13 to go.
The "Fight H-S-T" organizers say they now have the minimum of 10 per-cent of registered voters to sign the campaign to kill the tax in 68 of BC's 85 ridings.
Spokesperson Chris Delaney was on the Bill Good Show this morning on CKNW.
"We've hit the 500-thousand threshold now so that's another 100-thousand signatures in the last week and what's particularly encouraging about it are the numbers are soaring in Vancouver and Buranby now, so they were a little bit behind last week because we'd gotten started late there but now that we're organized we're seeing the numbers come as fast or faster than any of the other ridings in the rest of the province when they were at their peak."
Delaney says if they get the minimum in all 85 ridings and the government ignores their petition, they then will start recall proceedings.
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Why? It'd be a waste of money (i.e. more of your and my tax dollars).
Now here's a waste of money spent on pro government propaganda: (Curious why you would say it's hard for them to come up with facts and figures)
Public Affairs Bureau with 223 fulltime government employees, a budget of $28 million a year (some say $31 million a year), and is bigger than any newsroom in Canada.
No newsroom anywhere covers a legislature with the same intensity as B.C.'s Public Affairs Bureau. We should ask a few questions.
Is it legal to use taxpayers' money for propaganda purposes? Is it legal for paid government employees to work in an election campaign? Is it legal and ethical to knowingly participate in the electoral process on behalf of government, but not the Opposition? Who decides on the policies which Public Affairs Bureau advocates? Who trains the new PAB "Officers" in their duties and how long does that take?
Perhaps values are reflected in paycheques. shown here, courtesy of Sean Holman at Public Eye Online:
Salary ranges for major unionized print media reporters:
The Canadian Press ($44,752.24 - $72,127.12)
The Times Colonist ($51,653.68 - $77,936.04)
The Globe and Mail ($47.110.96 - $84,199.44)
The Province, The Vancouver Sun ($53,998.36 - $86,140.08)
Salary ranges for public affairs bureau staff:
Public Affairs Officer ($47,278.25 - $79,847.87)
Communications Manager ($68,290.83 - $93,505.88)
Communications Director ($78,797.25 - $110,315.74)
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Vander Zalm says that the HST applies to virtually every service that the GST applied to, so the government has no excuse for not knowing which items should have been included.
So why do we need a list to tell us what we already know?
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So why do we need a list to tell us what we already know?
???
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As the Zalm has confirmed, HST applies to anything that we presently pay GST on. Since we already know those items we pay GST on, we don't really need some fancy new list telling us what we already know.
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As the Zalm has confirmed, HST applies to anything that we presently pay GST on. Since we already know those items we pay GST on, we don't really need some fancy new list telling us what we already know.
You sound like the Finance Minister. ;D ;D
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I guess I just see it as unnecessary. Most of us know what we pay GST on, so just extend that to HST.
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I guess I just see it as unnecessary. Most of us know what we pay GST on, so just extend that to HST.
Then why spend 27 million of our tax money on a communications bureau that can't put together a comprehensive list in 10 months?[/b ::) ??? ::)
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Then why spend 27 million of our tax money on a communications bureau that can't put together a comprehensive list in 10 months?[/b ::) ??? ::)
I have no idea. I'm not in government. Ask your MLA.
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Prime Minister Stephen Harper said a proposed international bank tax would unfairly penalize well-regulated Canadian financial institutions that survived the global economic meltdown.
"You can't tax an economy into prosperity; likewise you can't tax a financial sector into stability," Harper said Tuesday.
*** Read that second statement again folks, maybe he should talk to El Gordo***
Its okay to tax the S**T out of the country's population, but noooo.... dont want to tax a company having multimillion$ quarterly profits, no that would be just wrong...
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Interesting article about how the government is increasing other taxes to make up for any loss as a result of implementing the HST.
"The BC Liquor Distribution Branch has announced today that the "liquor board markup" on all products will be increased as of July 1, 2010 as part of the implementation of the HST. The introduction of the HST means that the provincial sales tax on alcohol will actually go down from its current 10% to the 7% provincial component of the HST (the 12% HST is made up of 7% provincial sales tax + 5% federal sales tax). In order to prevent consumers from actually receiving a break on the introduction of the HST (maybe that would have been a good idea?) ... the government had previously announced that they would increase liquor board markups to compensate. Today's announcements make changes to the markups across the board for all products. On wine, the liquor board markup will increase from 117% to 123%. On spirits, it goes from 163% to 170%. If you weren't aware of these staggeringly high tax rates ... yes, you are reading those numbers correctly. The stated intention has always been to keep "shelf prices the same". I'll post more on this later once I have time to analyze the changes and get some feedback."
Copied from WineLaw.ca
Original Link http://www.winelaw.ca/cms/
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I think the HST is just going to create a larger undergorund economy, just like the GST did when it first came out.
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Harper may actually be onto the right track:
dont want to tax a company having multimillion$ quarterly profits, no that would be just wrong...
Any 'TAX' imposed on any corporation (ie Banks) will merely be passed onto the consumer in other fees.
Hard to believe that he may actually be doing something right for us common folk.
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Revolt over hated new HST tax threatens to topple B.C. Liberals. Is the end coming sooner than we think?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Revolt+over+hated+threatens+topple+Liberals/3046217/story.html
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Harper may actually be onto the right track:
Any 'TAX' imposed on any corporation (ie Banks) will merely be passed onto the consumer in other fees.
Hard to believe that he may actually be doing something right for us common folk.
So why tax businesses at all, lets let'em operate in this country and reap the profits on our backs???
If you want to do business in this country, there SHOULD be a cost attached to it, if I want to live in this country, there IS a cost attached to it.
This country belongs to the people, not politicians,not multi-national corporations, but you and me, and if you want to make a profit off us by operationg a business in our country, there should be cost associated with it. If a business chooses to off load those costs back on to the consumer in this country, they will quickly find themselves in competition from China, so suck it up, take the 5 million in profit, instead of the 10 million, and prove to the country you're worthy of doing business in our country, and I may give you my business, that is my power as a consumer.
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I have no idea. I'm not in government. Ask your MLA.
You don't see ANY irony that the Libs have the BIGGEST "newsroom" (or propaganda machine) in the country, yet despite an outcry for clarification on this, they just can't come up with it? You seem like a bright fellow, perhaps you could explain???? ??? ??? ??? ???
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We're digressing from the orginal purpose of this particular thread discussion.
However - you said:
If you want to do business in this country, there SHOULD be a cost attached to it
Businesses employ people like you and me. If a business is profitable, it has the ability to grow and prosper - likewise the employees who work there - not all - but there are a lot of good businesses who do treat their people well. Increase its share of taxes and the business is left with the following choices:
- passing on the increase its consumers - generally not a good thing and your right - customers will shop elsewhere.
- passing on some of the increase and 'eat' some of it - results with lower margins - doesn't do the company much good and possibly makes the employees less happy as expenses have to be cut (ie payroll)
- closing shop - leaving its people unemployed.
My comment was that for once Harper may be thinking of us common folks (maybe not directly - but in a round-about way) as he generally doesn't. No need for drive up 'business taxes' which we all know we (as consumers) end up paying. Last time I looked - there are no big banks from China in Canada. Thankfully! There of course are the Credit Unions - but last time I checked, some of them are merging as well to cut costs.
You also said:
if I want to live in this country, there IS a cost attached to it.
What is that cost? How is it paid? Who pays it? ??? Does shopping for products/services manufactured/offered in other countries really benefit the consumer in the long run?
Short term - yes - as I understand the concept of 'watching my pennies' (albeit the Governments don't). As people continously shop 'elsewhere' (ie States - yes the prices are cheaper (less taxes as well) - they have the market - more people in a smaller geographical space), our business loses out with less revenue and profits and yes, the government loses a portion of the 'taxes'.
Taxes, by the way, which pay for many a service that people have come to expect. Services get more expensive each and every year. Somehow the government (translated - we the people) has to pay for it. Taxes also pay the wages/benefits (which are bloated and shameful - but thats another story) of all those employed and formerly employed (pensions and extended benefits) by the government or service paid for by the government (ie - nurses / teachers). If the tax revenue drops, I don't hear about any wage or benefit drops. Thus, services get the short stick.
Do I think the government is wasteful?? YEP! Definitely more than its fair share of bureaucratic red tape and hot air.
Do I think that the politicians are in it for themselves?? YEP!! - I have yet to hear of any recent political party (Socreds/ NDP/ Libs) that hasn't had at least one of its members get a lucrative position from the connections they make with the big businesses or turn down their gold plated pensions or bloated salaries (donating it to a charity results with a tax receipt deduction - they still come ahead). Those that make a real difference or truely have their constituents interests at heart are few and far in between.
Do I think the Liberals had all intentions of introducing the HST AFTER the election? DuH! Politicians may not be the most well liked or respected people (lawyers fare worse according to the last poll I've seen) - but they're not stupid. Do I think that the NDP would have introduced in another year or two if they had won? ::) Last time I checked - they do NOT have a problem taxing businesses and the people.
Do I think that I am ranting?? You betcha! But I feel better now! :)
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--Businesses employ people like you and me. If a business is profitable, it has the ability to grow and prosper - likewise the employees who work there - not all - but there are a lot of good businesses who do treat their people well
--I have a simple solution, although it will get so complicated after discussion that it will not be implemented....For these small and even large multinational companies... If you want to give them a tax break then charge tax on money they take out of the country.
--If they reinvest in Canada I have no problem with them making money.. I only get annoyed when we give them a tax break.. which they conscider as profit and take it outside of the country. It is only an advantage if others don't get it.. If everyone pays taxes and I don't... I'm receiving a benefit that I can use to my advantage.
--If a company is willing to pay full educational expenses for its employees children then I have no issue with them not paying school tax.. etc.
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Looks like the LIEberals are feeling the heat.
How convenient! In recent weeks, Elections B.C. chief electoral officer Harry Neufeld has twice ruled against the B.C. Liberal government on matters relating to the ongoing initiative against the HST. June 5th is his last day. The Liberals want him out & replaced by someone not so impartial! Anyone Surprised?
Story here: http://www.straight.com/article-325403/vancouver/bc-chief-electoral-officer-leave-post-hst-petition-submitted
And on it goes...
Nog
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Port Coquitlam – Fight HST Lead Organizer, Chris Delaney, says the petition to repeal the HST has crossed the Elections BC 10% threshold in 83 of 85 ridings with over 6 weeks still to go in the campaign.
Delaney says the Fight HST internal threshold of 15% or more has been reached in 57 of 85 ridings.
“These numbers are particularly exciting, since they represent only 64 of 85 ridings reporting. Many areas of the province that had reached their targets took a break for the long weekend. We’ll finish up the remaining two ridings next weekend, and will meet both the Elections BC requirement of 10% as well as our own internal threshold of 15% in all ridings by the first or second week of June,” said Delaney.
Delaney says that the petition to repeal the HST has reached a critical mass. “There is nothing more to wait for. There is no need for a referendum, no need for more delays and wasting of taxpayers’ time and money. The petition has become a referendum. And the result of that referendum is clear. British Columbians do not want the HST.”
Fight HST leader, Bill Vander Zalm, is calling on Premier Campbell to cancel the HST now.
“What is he waiting for? The numbers are overwhelming. He is our servant, not our master, and even his number one argument that the HST is good for the economy has been refuted by the Prime Minister himself, who last week at a G8 Youth Forum said ‘You can’t tax an economy into prosperity’.”
“Cancel the HST now Mr. Campbell. The people of BC are waiting for you to act on their behalf. Failure to do so will result in you becoming the first premier in Canadian history to be fired by the people in a Recall,” said Vander Zalm.
Vander Zalm says that Recall campaigns can begin 18 months after a provincial election. That means the first Recalls in BC can be launched in November, 2010.
Vander Zalm says the timing is perfect, since the anti-HST petition will be submitted on July 5, after which Elections BC will have 42 days to check the petition. Once the petition is validated, the Legislature will reconvene in September to vote on the bill to repeal the HST.
Vander Zalm says if the BC Government votes it down or tries to play games by delaying it or going to a costly and time wasting referendum, then his organization will immediately begin Recalls in selected ridings.
“The people have drawn a line in the sand with their government, and the government seems to have drawn a line in the sand with the people. There can only be one winner in that contest if democracy is to survive in BC,” said Vander Zalm.
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Yay! Let's all cut and paste!
Political chameleon Bill Vander Zalm rides anti-HST wave
BY STEPHEN HUME, VANCOUVER SUN MAY 25, 2010
Former premier Bill Vander Zalm's dog-and-pony show wends its way through British Columbia's disgruntled hinterlands, our Wonderful Wizard of Oz gleefully tapping the anti-HST sentiment that has become a convenient lightning rod for resentment toward a Liberal government that's outstayed its welcome.
Reports gleaned from the weekly newspapers suggest Vander Zalm's legendary charm has been on display at its dazzling best. In one place, he's the champion of householders beleaguered by the evil property-transfer tax -- unrepentant and largely unchallenged over the fact that his government introduced the hated levy.
In another, he's the dragon-slayer of big Liberal government and defender of small business -- and who cares that while he was premier the small-business tax was nine per cent while under the Liberals it is 3.5 per cent and is going to zero in 2012?
In another, Vander Zalm's the wise town-hall democrat, warning Liberal backbenchers that unless they abandon their government and its commitment to the HST and join his crusade, the people will banish them as they did the federal Progressive Conservatives, later forced to sell their souls to Reform Party radicals in a right-wing coalition. And why should anyone worry that on Vander Zalm's watch once-unassailable Social Credit imploded?
In yet another, he's a "power to the people" reformer, the magnanimous non-partisan leader of all, a bridge over troubled waters in this polarized province.
"I cut across party lines," he told the South Delta Leader back at the beginning of May. "When I have town-hall meetings I have New Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, I have Green Party members, Refederation Party people. They are all there."
I cut across party lines. You can say that again. Vander Zalm ran as a Liberal in 1972. When that bus stalled, he waved the wizard's wand and became a Socred. By 1999, with Social Credit a glowing crater in his wake, he was running for the Reform Party.
Those whose memories are hazy regarding the unravelling of Vander Zalm's government should revisit the report by conflict-of-interest commissioner Ted Hughes. It dealt with the premier's conduct while negotiating the sale of his theme park. Vander Zalm resigned immediately after receiving it.
Now he boasts his anti-HST campaign can be the catalyst for a new provincial party that will reform B.C. politics.
"I'm saying the Liberals in Victoria are opening the door for another party," he told the South Delta paper.
Would Vander Zalm lead this new party? He says no, but then, this is the Liberal-Socred-Reform shape-shifter who once thought the property-transfer tax was a splendid idea.
So it's not unreasonable to wonder whether there might be a hidden agenda, one that would position him to be "available" if the tide was flowing strongly in his favour or to play kingmaker for someone else.
Meanwhile, Carole James and the NDP shovel coal into the over-heated boiler of Vander Zalm's anti-HST express: Who better to reap the benefits of a new party splitting the right-of-centre vote than those who have so often suffered left-of-centre vote-splitting?
As do the provincial Conservatives, themselves driven into the political wilderness following scandals whose stench tainted party fortunes for the next 80 years.
According to the Abbotsford Times, today's reborn Conservatives aim to surf the anti-HST wave and become that third party, displacing Liberals as the right-of-centre choice.
They would ride to power on a pledge to nix the HST, axe the property-transfer tax, slash corporate taxes, double personal-income-tax exemptions and get rid of the provincial sales tax.
By what hocus-pocus they'd recover the lost revenue -- about $11 billion a year, at my guess -- isn't clear. But there are only two ways to do it: Raise taxes somewhere else or further slash government spending. Which would mean cutting programs for the homeless and the elderly, health or education, since they account for most of the provincial budget.
However, as I say, in the Land of Oz, political wizards need only wave their wands and the yellow brick road appears to lead the faithful to that Emerald City, where all desires may be fulfilled and nobody pays any taxes.
shume@islandnet.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
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Liberals seize potential way to cool HST debate
BY VAUGHN PALMER, VANCOUVER SUN MAY 26, 2010
It was a day when Premier Gordon Campbell showed his sense of humour hasn't deserted him during the furore over the harmonized sales tax.
Was anything more unpopular than the HST? "Well, potentially there's me," he told reporters. "Other than that, there's not much I can think of."
A day, too, when he discounted the threat of recall over the tax. "I've been subject to recall before," he told reporters, referring to failed efforts in 1998 and 2003.
And it was also a day when the often-absent premier made a rare appearance during question period in the legislature to signal how the B.C. Liberals would respond to the near-certainty of a successful petition against the HST.
"If the initiative passes we will carry out the work as laid out in the legislation," said Campbell, referring to the provincial law that allows the public to initiate measures by petition.
Once a petition is validated it is sent to the committee on legislative initiatives. The committee then has 30 days to meet and 90 days to "consider" the initiative.
The B.C. Liberals have every intention of letting that process play out through the fall, according to Campbell: "The initiative will be submitted to the legislative committee for their decision and their direction."
Not good enough for the Opposition New Democrats, who want to expedite the process while the anti-HST mood is on the boil.
Party finance critic Bruce Ralston demanded Campbell either "call a referendum or submit the [measure] to the legislature, not to the committee."
Not likely. After all, the more leisurely committee route is the one specified in the Recall and Initiative Act, legislation drafted by the New Democrats themselves when they were in government in the 1990s.
"I am sure the member is aware of the legislation," the premier replied. "If the initiative is successful, it will be submitted to a legislative committee and they will take the next appropriate steps."
The committee, six Liberals and four New Democrats selected by their respective caucuses, has a relatively free hand.
It can hold hearings, call witnesses, and otherwise scrutinize the initiative, which proposes to extinguish the HST, restore the old provincial sales tax, and compensate British Columbians on a per-capita basis for the balance of any taxes paid.
Given the government majority, the committee will doubtless use the time to try to bring what the Liberals would describe as some much-needed perspective on the question of whether or not repeal is workable and, if so, at what financial penalties to the province.
While the committee is conducting its deliberations, Campbell intends to take the fight into the public arena.
"You may rest assured that I will be out in British Columbia, and I will be reminding British Columbians that this is about their jobs in forestry, in mining," he told the house.
"This is about investment in British Columbia. This is about a competitive tax regime. This is about thinking about our children and their future. That's what this government stands for."
The New Democrats shouldn't have been disappointed to discover that the premier intends to prolong the debate, given that he has to date lost every single round. But they continued to press him to short-circuit the process and send the initiative to the legislature or commit to a referendum then and there.
To recap the contents of their own legislation, it says that at the end of the 90 days of consideration, the committee shall make up its mind. Either to recommend the proposed measure to the legislature. Or to reject it, whereupon it goes to the public for approval in an "initiative vote," conducted as a provincewide referendum.
So in effect Campbell is committed to allow one or the other.
If the committee were to recommend the bill -- not likely, given the Liberal majority -- it would go to the house when it sits in February of 2011. If the referendum option, then the vote would be held on the date specified in law, the last Saturday in September 2011.
Were the New Democrats suggesting that the referendum be brought forward? Not at all, said Opposition House leader Mike Farnworth. The date specified in the existing legislation was fine with them.
Thus the Liberals have seized on a potential way to cool the debate over the HST.
Committee work this fall, leading to referendum in the fall of 2011. And a referendum, be it noted, that would be easier for the government to defeat than the current petition against the HST.
To pass, the initiative vote needs to carry 57 of the current 85 provincial ridings, which is probably doable. It also needs the support of "more than 50 per cent of the total number of registered voters in the province." Meaning 1.5 million "yes" votes, more than the combined vote for both the Liberals and the NDP in the last provincial election.
Not impossible but an uphill fight, even for forces as well organized as the ones arrayed against the HST.
But in order to survive until the fall of 2011, the government would face its own challenges. Not least the need to turn back the threat of recall, however much Campbell is inclined to discount it.
vpalmer@vancouversun.com
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From my buddy Bill. ;D ;D
Hello Chris
Congratulations to all our canvassers! In just half the alloted time, we have already achieved success greater than anyone could have imagined.
We have confounded and amazed the pundits, the academics, the naysayers, and yes - even the government!
We have hit our internal threshold of 15% in 57 of the 85 ridings, and are very close to that in many remaining.
This weekend we have the chance to hit 15% in ALL 85 ridings. But we need everyone in the Tri Cities, Burnaby, Richmond, Vancouver and North and West Vancouver to come together to make it happen.
And those of you in ridings that are close by - we can use your help if you can volunteer in the remaining ridings too!
To those ridings that have achieved their targets: the more signatures we get - the louder the message to government!
This week, for the first time, Premier Campbell admitted he now knew that British Columbians didn't like his tax. Now is our chance to tell him loud and clear to abolish the HST!
Let's push our numbers as high as we can this weekend, and send the govenment a message they can't ignore!
Thank you for your dedication, time, sacrifice and hard work! British Columbia, we have proven that together, we can make a difference
Good luck this weekend!
Bill Vander Zalm
Leader
Fight HST
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Fight HST leader Bill Vander Zalm says they have reached the 10 per-cent threshold in all 85 ridings in BC.
The last riding to reach the plateau is Vancouver-Langara.
Ten percent is the minimum requirement of Elections BC but the Fight HST leader says they're not done yet.
Vander Zalm says:
"....... we're targeting 15 percent, in some constituencies we're far beyond that....and in about 55 or so constituencies we have reached 15 percent or beyond"
The petition campaign continues until July 5th.
Vander Zalm was speaking on the Bill Good Show on CKNW.
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Will the HST deliver lower prices to consumers?
BY KEVIN MILLIGAN, VANCOUVER SUN MAY 28, 2010
As the public continues to chew on the harmonized sales tax debate, one particular bone catches in many a person's throat. HST proponents claim that business savings from the HST will be passed through to consumers in the form of lower prices. The public seems very skeptical on this point. Economists can bring some insight to this heated debate.
First, though, let's take a quick primer on the HST. The provincial government collects about $5 billion a year from the provincial sales tax. A significant part of this revenue comes from tax on business inputs -- things like tires for delivery trucks and computers for their workers. These costs end up embedded in the prices we pay -- we just don't see them. With the coming of the HST, taxation of business inputs will end. Soon, businesses will get a credit for every HST dollar they spend. Ending the taxation of business inputs provides a fountain of tangible benefits. The HST will lead to more investment and jobs, less complexity for companies and less bureaucracy in Victoria.
Even HST opponents don't seem to deny these benefits. Their ire, instead, is focused on changes in what is taxed under the HST, and who is paying the tax. The HST will cover some goods and services that weren't covered by the PST, such as haircuts and carwashing. These newly covered items will bring in about $2 billion in revenue. Offsetting this revenue increase is the new input tax credit for businesses, which will cost about $2 billion. If the tax credits are passed through completely to consumers, then the HST will be a wash for consumers as a whole -- $2 billion up and $2 billion down.
On the other hand, if businesses just use the tax credits to pad their profits by $2 billion, consumers will face a steeper tax burden. Understanding pass-through is obviously pivotal to the HST debate.
What do economic textbooks tell us happens when business costs drop? The answer depends on the degree of competition in a particular market. When customers have many choices, any business that passes its tax savings on to its own prices will steal customers from its competitors. If other competitors try to keep prices high, they face the loss of customers and profit.
In this way, profit-loving companies are forced through competitive pressures to pass on the savings. Businesses do not pass savings through to be nice. They do it because they want to maintain their market share and hold tight to their profits. Of course, if a market is dominated by a single business, the absence of alternatives for consumers means that the competitive pressure to reduce prices is absent. How much pass-through we can expect depends on the competitiveness of markets and how price-conscious B.C. consumers will be.
Textbook lessons can fall apart on the way from the lecture hall to the street. In this case, however, there is substantial, real-world evidence on the question of pass-through. In France in 1999, the tax rate on home repair services fell from 20.6 per cent to 5.5 per cent. A recent study showed that more than three-quarters of this tax break was passed on to customers. The pass-through didn't happen by government regulation or edict. The drive for profit led companies to do it in order to maintain market share from their competitors. Profit-hungry companies need to keep their customers if they want to keep their profit.
Closer to home, the three Atlantic provinces that implemented the HST in 1997 provide a relevant example for B.C. An analysis by Richard Bird and Michael Smart of the University of Toronto found that the HST tax breaks were almost completely passed on to consumers.
For example, prices for furniture and household appliances fell about three per cent in the first year after implementation because of the new business input credits -- and they stayed down.
Economic logic and experience inform us that, while we might not see a complete benefit, we can expect a solid share of the business savings to be passed through to consumers.
Kevin Milligan is an associate professor of economics at the University of British Columbia.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
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Democracy- DIRECT DEMOCRACY - Wins!
Now to refute the above claptrap voodoo economics, here's some refreshing and honest reality about sticky pricing and the spurious and bullspit claims about lower prices.
Sticky, in the social sciences and particularly economics, describes a situation in which a variable is resistant to change. For example, nominal wages are often said to be sticky in the short run. Market forces may reduce the real value of labour in an industry, but wages will tend to remain at previous levels in the short run. This can be due to institutional factors such as price regulations, legal contractual commitments (e.g. office leases and employment contracts), labour unions, human stubbornness, or self-interest. Stickiness normally applies in one direction. For example, a variable that is "sticky downward" will be reluctant to drop even if conditions dictate that it should. However, in the long run wages will drop to equilibrium level.
Economists tend to cite four possible causes of price stickiness: menu costs, money illusion, imperfect information with regards to price changes, and fairness concerns. Robert Hall cites incentive and cost barriers on the part of firms to help explain stickiness in wages.
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Examples of stickiness
* 2 Modeling sticky prices
* 3 Impact during deflation
* 4 References
* 5 External links
[edit] Examples of stickiness
Many firms, during recessions, lay off workers. Yet many of these same firms are reluctant to begin hiring, even as the economic situation improves. This can result in slow job growth during a recovery. Wages, prices, and employment levels can all be sticky. Normally, a variable oscillates according to changing market conditions, but when stickiness enters the system, oscillations in one direction are favored over the other, and the variable exhibits "creep"-- it gradually moves in one direction or another. This is also called the "ratchet effect". Over time a variable will have ratcheted in one direction.
For example, in the absence of competition, firms rarely lower prices, even when production costs decrease (i.e. supply increases) or demand drops. Instead, when production becomes cheaper, firms take the difference as profit, and when demand decreases they are more likely to hold prices constant, while cutting production, than to lower them. Therefore, prices are sometimes observed to be sticky downward, and the net result is one kind of inflation.
Prices in an oligopoly can often be considered sticky-upward. The kinked demand curve, resulting in elastic price elasticity of demand above the current market clearing price, and inelasticity below it, requires firms to match price reductions by their competitors to maintain market share.
Note: For the general discussion of asymmetric upward- and downward-stickiness with respect to upstream prices see an article on asymmetric price transmission.
[edit] Modeling sticky prices
Economists have tried to model sticky prices in a number of ways. These models can be classified as either time-dependent, where firms change prices with the passage of time and decide to change prices independently of the economic environment, or state-dependent, where firms decide to change prices in response to changes in the economic environment. The differences can be thought of as differences in a two-stage process: In time-dependent models, firms decide to change prices and then evaluate market conditions; In state-dependent models, firms evaluate market conditions and then decide how to respond.
In time-dependent models price changes are staggered exogenously, so a fixed percentage of firms change prices at a given time. There is no selection as to which firms change prices. Two commonly used time-dependent models based on papers by John B. Taylor[1] and Guillermo Calvo[2]. In Taylor (1980), firms change prices every nth period. In Calvo (1983), firms change prices at random. In both models the choice of changing prices is independent of the inflation rate.
In state-dependent models the decision to change prices is based on changes in the market and are not related to the passage of time. Most models relate the decision to change prices changes to menu costs. Firms change prices when the benefit of changing a price becomes larger than the menu cost of changing a price. Price changes may be bunched or staggered over time. Prices change faster and monetary shocks are over faster under state dependent than time.[3] Examples of state-dependent models include the one proposed by Golosov and Lucas and one suggested by Dotsey, King and Wolman.
[edit] Impact during deflation
During an economy wide monetary deflation the downward stickiness of nominal prices such as wages and office leases can cause the destruction of business viability. In extreme cases the only way for businesses to escape contractual commitments (office leases and employment contracts) in such a situation is to declare bankruptcy. An increase in bankruptcies is sometimes cited as indicative of deflationary forces at work in the economy. It is only after such bankruptcies have transpired that consumer prices can move downward to align with the changed value of cash.
[edit] References
* NBER (2006) "Why Are Prices Sticky? The Dynamics of Wholesale Gasoline Prices."
1. ^ Taylor, John B. (1980), “Aggregate Dynamics and Staggered Contracts,” Journal of Political Economy. 88(1), 1-23.
2. ^ Calvo, Guillermo A. (1983), “Staggered Prices in a Utility-Maximizing Framework,” Journal of Monetary Economics. 12(3), 383-398.
3. ^ Oleksiy Kryvtsov and Peter J. Klenow. "State-Dependent or Time-Dependent Pricing: Does It Matter For Recent U.S. Inflation?" The Quarterly Journal of Economics, MIT Press, vol. 123(3), pages 863-904, August. [1]
[edit] External links
* Economics A-Z: Sticky Prices
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You do know that Wikipedia isn't always the best source for accurate information, don't you? Also, if the words aren't your own, you should clearly state such. Can you tell us how what you copied and pasted relates to the article that I posted above?
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A little testy with opposing views? ;)
Just refuting some of this :
"What do economic textbooks tell us happens when business costs drop? The answer depends on the degree of competition in a particular market. When customers have many choices, any business that passes its tax savings on to its own prices will steal customers from its competitors. If other competitors try to keep prices high, they face the loss of customers and profit.
In this way, profit-loving companies are forced through competitive pressures to pass on the savings. Businesses do not pass savings through to be nice. They do it because they want to maintain their market share and hold tight to their profits. Of course, if a market is dominated by a single business, the absence of alternatives for consumers means that the competitive pressure to reduce prices is absent. How much pass-through we can expect depends on the competitiveness of markets and how price-conscious B.C. consumers will be."
Here's a few more sources:
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&safe=off&q=sticky+prices+definition&revid=973674845&sa=X&ei=TDgBTKHxEqOeM_CcgDw&ved=0CEsQ1QIoAA&fp=8e118841f4aed0c3
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Testy over opposing views? That's funny (and not a little ironic).
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Soooo- Did you go and read the link? ::) ;D
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Its interesting how the radicals (Socialist and NDP) always make out that PROFIT is a dirty word and that any business making a profit is somehow evil.
But its those same business that feed families , Tax them to death and the business closes and people are out of work, lower taxes more people are hired.
I am in favor of anything that lowers the cost of business.
The three provinces that have implemented the HST all seemed to have benefited from it. With tax benefits passed through and more jobs created.
So I for one still favor the HST, as it will allow me to hire one extra hand and possibly take a vacation for the first time in 6 years.
Its about time hard work is rewarded and not penalized.
As the way the current system works the harder you work, the more money you earn, the more you are taxed to pay for the lazy and freeloaders.
After all Profit is a nasty word!!!
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I own and run a small business and if I ran it without the ability to turn a profit, then I'm either really stupid or I just shouldn't be in business..... Why should Joe and Mary Sixpack pay more taxes so I can make more? Is it simple greed? Why should the money I give government be wasted the way the present idiots waste tax money? Why should banks be operating in a tax free environment and my enterprise be taxed? We've already eliminated the Corporate Capital Tax (Carole Taylor) eliminating 100,000,000 in revenue. How much has Campbell lowered business taxes already? How much has Campbell lowered income tax to the top 10% wage earners in the province?
How many fees have been introduced to make up shortfalls? MSP premiums? Go for a walk in a provincial park, pay for it. How many "boreds of directors" with lard a$$ed do nothings milking the system for hundreds of thousands for a few days here and there? How about the huge raises given to bureaucrats to retain the "best and brightest'? (if they were so "bright" why are the finances in such a mess?) Gordo gets a 64% raise, but paramedics get nothing? Call Campbell the next time your hurt or sick. How much additional bureaucracy was added to the medical system with all the fat from "Regional Boards'? How much was wasted on the Site C announcement flying everyone up north for a big splashy? Why should we be subsidizing BC Ferries and paying David Hahn a $1,000,000 salary when a similar job elsewhere in North America pays about a quarter of that? Why do we pay tax money for the Public Affairs Bureau, 27 million a year for government propaganda? How much do we subsidize the oil and gas industry? Why? And how about the movie industry? Do you feel good about shoveling money and specific tax breaks to them? These business's seem to turn plenty of profits, why am I subsidizing?
I'll stop now because the waste is astronomical.
Profit yes- GREED no. Campbell has already gifted enough to business. The business community makes it's profits, so they should make more off the backs of the average working stiff, not "the lazy and freeloaders" ::)? If a business owner lacks the intelligence and ability to earn enough through the present system, then there is no hope for them period. The last time I looked, there was no shortage of business operating that do have enough smarts to make it.
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I own and run a small business and if I ran it without the ability to turn a profit, then I'm either really stupid or I just shouldn't be in business..... Why should Joe and Mary Sixpack pay more taxes so I can make more? Is it simple greed? Why should the money I give government be wasted the way the present idiots waste tax money? Why should banks be operating in a tax free environment and my enterprise be taxed? We've already eliminated the Corporate Capital Tax (Carole Taylor) eliminating 100,000,000 in revenue. How much has Campbell lowered business taxes already? How much has Campbell lowered income tax to the top 10% wage earners in the province?
How many fees have been introduced to make up shortfalls? MSP premiums? Go for a walk in a provincial park, pay for it. How many "boreds of directors" with lard a$$ed do nothings milking the system for hundreds of thousands for a few days here and there? How about the huge raises given to bureaucrats to retain the "best and brightest'? (if they were so "bright" why are the finances in such a mess?) Gordo gets a 64% raise, but paramedics get nothing? Call Campbell the next time your hurt or sick. How much additional bureaucracy was added to the medical system with all the fat from "Regional Boards'? How much was wasted on the Site C announcement flying everyone up north for a big splashy? Why should we be subsidizing BC Ferries and paying David Hahn a $1,000,000 salary when a similar job elsewhere in North America pays about a quarter of that? Why do we pay tax money for the Public Affairs Bureau, 27 million a year for government propaganda? How much do we subsidize the oil and gas industry? Why? And how about the movie industry? Do you feel good about shoveling money and specific tax breaks to them? These business's seem to turn plenty of profits, why am I subsidizing?
I'll stop now because the waste is astronomical.
Profit yes- GREED no. Campbell has already gifted enough to business. The business community makes it's profits, so they should make more off the backs of the average working stiff, not "the lazy and freeloaders" ::)? If a business owner lacks the intelligence and ability to earn enough through the present system, then there is no hope for them period. The last time I looked, there was no shortage of business operating that do have enough smarts to make it.
It's hard to believe how much smoke you blew with that argument, Novabonker. Perhaps some day when your business provides some form of meaningful employment(income) for more than a handful of employees in British Columbia will your arguments perhaps hold some weight.
Businesses that make a profit have the ability to invest in more equipment, larger manufacturing facilities and as a result hire more people. The prospect of making a profit attracts additional businesses to BC. Without those businesses there would be fewer people to be able to buy the services you provide in your "business".
In other words you are benefiting from the fact that businesses are profitable. But reading your argument suggests you are the only business person in BC with the " intelligence and ability to earn enough through the present system". ???
May I suggest that you stick to cutting and pasting Bill's rhetoric?
At least that provides some entertainment. :D
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I reiterate - Why should Joe and Mary pay MORE taxes so business can pay LESS? And don't tell me the present regime hasn't put business ahead of the citizens many times in it's rule.Look at how they've slashed business taxes, the banks being a prime example.BTW -Wasn't that a sweet deal Carole Taylor got cut by TD when she resigned?Part time job, a few hundred grand a year. Couldn't have been anything to do with the 1oo million tax break. But if you read the business section, this week especially, they're turning monster profits- untaxed. I'm not understanding why the citizens should pay more taxes to subsidize business. Again - if you don't have the smarts to make your business run, than you aren't smart enough to run a business.
Thanks for the withering reply, but instead AF - Why don't you explain your theories so we "little people", all 500,000 of us and counting, unwashed and uninformed as we are, have both sides. ;D ;D ;D
PS- Eye apaulegice fer meye lak uf enteellect, butt eye onlee dun gradgeeateed grate sefen. Eye eain't es smert es ewe. ;D ;D ;D
(Posted in jest)
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Typical die hard NDP statement. claiming to be "we little people what a joke.
With the huge number of posts, must be a paid staunch NDP supporter with a definite gender.
Carole James for next premier, now that's an even scarier thought the Campbell.
Better to have a government in favour of business rather than one against it.
As for government wasting tax money another laugh name me a government anywhere in north America in the past 50 years that doesn't waste money.
Every government, whether its liberal, conservative or NDP is the same so its a moot point.
If you want the jobs so people can feed their families then businesses have to make money and make a profit, If that involves businesses paying less taxes so be it.
Once you switch the tax burden to businesses, its over, jobs lost, unemployment rises, just look at the last time NDP ran this province, what a disaster.
I for one barely broke even with those NDP idiots in power, its funny with the liberals, profit has returned to the business.
So once again hard work gets rewarded rather than penalized. Sure which I had more time for fishing like the freeloaders!!
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Odd post - You assume me to be an NDP member. Hate to tell you this, but that's not the case. The truth be known, it's time to blast them all out of the water if they continue to serve special interest groups, instead of the citizens.I still stand by my statement that if you can't run a business successfully, either through financial incompetence or just plain poor business skills, without government lolly or on the backs of working people - get a job. Why should I pay for your lack of acumen? Check out this link, but that's only statistics.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2009/04/23/BCEcon/
"With the huge number of posts, must be a paid staunch NDP supporter with a definite gender."
Yes, I have a gender - Male. What does my gender have to do with this? ??? ??? ???
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Statistics can be massaged to say anything you want them to (or don't want them to).
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. " - Disraeli
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Statistics can be massaged to say anything you want them to (or don't want them to).
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. " - Disraeli
Yes indeed - GDP is a dream of some air headed Fraser Institute flunkie. ::)
I wonder where all the Voodoo spin doctor economists quoted here got their info from???
STATISTICS ::) :o ;D
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An update from Bill, looking fantastic. ;D ;D ;D
Hello Chris
Fight HST petition reaches 10% requirement in all 85 ridings
600,000 signatures province-wide, 71 ridings pass 15% or greater threshold, including Vancouver Quilchena.
Vander Zalm calls on Premier Campbell to conduct a “free vote” to repeal HST
Port Coquitlam – Fight HST lead organizer, Chris Delaney, says the petition to repeal the HST broke 600,000 signatures province wide this past weekend, and crossed the 10% minimum signature threshold in all 85 electoral districts. He says 71 ridings have hit 15% or better, including Finance Minister Hansen's own riding of Vancouver Quilchena.
Delaney says organizers are on track to achieve 15% or more signatures in the remaining 14 ridings by the end of next week. “This report represents only 70 of 85 ridings, with a number of ridings not reporting this week, and others still tabulating results from the weekend. We should make our internal 15% target in all ridings by the first or second week of June.”
Fight HST leader, Bill Vander Zalm, is urging Premier Gordon Campbell to conduct a free and open vote to repeal the HST when the petition Bill is presented to the legislature later this fall.
“We are calling on Premier Campbell to allow his MLAs to vote according to their constituent’s wishes to repeal the HST. With so many Liberals in weak ridings where they are certain to be Recalled if they vote against the petition, it is only fair to allow them the chance to save their political careers,” said Vander Zalm.
Vander Zalm said that the Initiative Act was designed to reflect public opinion on issues of major importance to British Columbians. Not allowing MLAs to vote in support of their constituents wishes would be completely contrary to the spirit of the legislation.
“When Premier Campbell was first elected in 2001, he put out a paper stating he would overhaul the Recall and Initiative Act to make it more workable. He also committed himself to the concepts of direct democracy, transparency, and greater accountability to voters. In fact, he said repeatedly that his government would be the most transparent and accountable in the history of BC,” said Vander Zalm.
“Many people do not believe him anymore. They think he deliberately deceived people just to get their votes, since he never followed up on any of those promises.”
Vander Zalm points out that the premier’s recent comments regarding the HST petition have sent conflicting signals.
“He has admitted he now knows that British Columbians oppose his tax. He has agreed to allow the process to go forward, and to abide by the Initiative Act. This gives the impression that he’s going to listen to the people. But he recently told his friends in big business he will deliver on his promise to transfer the entire sales tax burden from them to consumers. He can’t have it both ways.”
Vander Zalm says such promises to business beg the question, “Who does the premier answer to? The three million registered voters of BC, or a handful or wealthy businessmen who finance his Liberal party?”
“The Fight HST petition, with over 600,000 signatures from all 85 ridings, is Premier Campbell’s chance to show the people he wasn’t lying. It’s his chance to show he really does believe in democratic accountability and listening to voters. He can do that by cancelling the HST now, or at least allowing his MLAs a free vote,” Vander Zalm concluded.
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New tax coming...
SFT
Sports Fisherman Tax...
They are going to get it from you one way or another. All the people donating their time for signitures is great, shows you don't take it bending over, but you will still get stuck up the wazoo when you are sleeping...
I have no right to comment on this debate because I never have and never will become a person who votes ( unless they bring back capital punishment, and I will be the first in line with a loaded gun )..
The effort that people put out is great and all that warm fuzzy stuff. But is it really going to change things at the end of the day..
They have to get money frrom somewhere, and they all lie their asses off.. Start a small home based business and see how much you can take the tax man for, it is the only way I see to beat them at their own game, and it is legal...
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New tax coming...
SFT
Sports Fisherman Tax...
They are going to get it from you one way or another. All the people donating their time for signitures is great, shows you don't take it bending over, but you will still get stuck up the wazoo when you are sleeping...
I have no right to comment on this debate because I never have and never will become a person who votes ( unless they bring back capital punishment, and I will be the first in line with a loaded gun )..
The effort that people put out is great and all that warm fuzzy stuff. But is it really going to change things at the end of the day..
They have to get money frrom somewhere, and they all lie their asses off.. Start a small home based business and see how much you can take the tax man for, it is the only way I see to beat them at their own game, and it is legal...
I can relate to your frustration but if we all sit on the sidelines things could be and get worse. We are a democratic society and many men and women including my dad risked their lives fighting to preserve our freedom that includes making sure we have the right to exercise our franchise.
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I can relate to your frustration but if we all sit on the sidelines things could be and get worse. We are a democratic society and many men and women including my dad risked their lives fighting to preserve our freedom that includes making sure we have the right to exercise our franchise.
Very well put Chris. I had 2 uncles that never made it home.
Yesterday, a customer engaged me in a conversation about the HST. When he stated all the "benefits" , I stated my points, including the lies delivered before the election. We both agreed on Campbell (his thought on Campbell "A waste of skin" ;D") and the way it was introduced as being pathetic at best. I suggested that the way Ontario handled it was better, but still lacking in input from the electorate. My point being, even pro HST advocates have no trust for Campbell Inc.
"I'm not a big fan of direct democracy." -- B.C. Liberal MLA Terry Lake
This sums up the disdain that the Liberals hold for the citizens - that they work for (allegedly) and any opinion they have regarding odious legislation. And this moron is the chair of the committee that decides the fate of the initiative.
The arrogance is overwhelming.
http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/tax/budgets/2009/british-columbia.jhtml#Corporate
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The truth be known, it's time to blast them all out of the water if they continue to serve special interest groups, instead of the citizens.I still stand by my statement that if you can't run a business successfully, either through financial incompetence or just plain poor business skills, without government lolly or on the backs of working people - get a job. Why should I pay for your lack of acumen?
i couldnt agree more. if you are struggling so, get rid of your business becuz u aint cut out to run it.
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Funny how the pro HST group is lining up to get government "gifts", but always calls those that don't support the tax and work for a living "freeloaders" or insist we aren't sophisticated enough to understand. ::) ::) ::). The government crows about the lowest income tax rates, lowest corporate tax rates, and all the wonderful issues regarding what they've done for business, but to make up they increase taxes and fees on Joe Average. When I have a little more time, I'll post about business in BC that won't give a penny back as the products don't sell here and they're based abroad.
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NB - Since you stated that you are a businessman - and you also stated that businesses should pay they 'fair' share of tax:
- How much of a Business Tax increase are you willing take on as a Businessman? (since they have dropped in the past several years as you also stated)
- How much will you absorb before you pass it on to your consumers? (Unless your consumer is in fact the goverment which then we know they'll pay almost anything).
- How much higher can you charge the consumer before the consumer looks elsewhere?
What do you do then? How do you better your competitiveness? How do you reduce your costs to entice the consumer back and still make a profit?
- Do you trim payroll / benefits / go hungry?
- How long before you start moaning that your business tax is too high?
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Well this has to be one of the dumbest statements of all time!!
I'll post about business in BC that won't give a penny back as the products don't sell here and they're based abroad
This is so typical of the NDP hacks, they have no clue about business and how those companies that make products in BC and sell them overseas are critical for our existence and life style in BC.
They bring the money back to BC, which is paid in taxes, wages, employee benefits , social payments. Sure lets cut back on these businesses and watch them take their operations elsewhere, where they are welcomed with open arms. And String them up if they dare make a profit or the hard working pepole have better lives. Freeloaders always complain and what everything delivered to them without having to do a decent days work. The loader the complaints the more they want.
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New tax coming...
SFT
Sports Fisherman Tax...
They are going to get it from you one way or another. All the people donating their time for signitures is great, shows you don't take it bending over, but you will still get stuck up the wazoo when you are sleeping...
I have no right to comment on this debate because I never have and never will become a person who votes ( unless they bring back capital punishment, and I will be the first in line with a loaded gun )..
The effort that people put out is great and all that warm fuzzy stuff. But is it really going to change things at the end of the day..
They have to get money frrom somewhere, and they all lie their asses off.. Start a small home based business and see how much you can take the tax man for, it is the only way I see to beat them at their own game, and it is legal...
Atleast people stand up for what they believe in. Doing nothing always gets you the same thing...NOTHING
This coming from a guy who is still on the fence about the HST
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Atleast people stand up for what they believe in. Doing nothing always gets you the same thing...NOTHING
This coming from a guy who is still on the fence about the HST
If you actually read the post I said I think it is great that people are putting in their time for the HST issue.
HST is less than a month away,,, maybe it is time to get off the fence.....
Personally I will get more money back if HST goes ahead.
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NB - Since you stated that you are a businessman - and you also stated that businesses should pay they 'fair' share of tax:
- How much of a Business Tax increase are you willing take on as a Businessman? (since they have dropped in the past several years as you also stated)
- How much will you absorb before you pass it on to your consumers? (Unless your consumer is in fact the goverment which then we know they'll pay almost anything).
- How much higher can you charge the consumer before the consumer looks elsewhere?
What do you do then? How do you better your competitiveness? How do you reduce your costs to entice the consumer back and still make a profit?
- Do you trim payroll / benefits / go hungry?
- How long before you start moaning that your business tax is too high?
I not going to bother with the rhetoric, but here's a link showing corporate tax cuts. I could only find it for a few years, but if you'd like to research it, you'll find it's been dropping steadily since Campbell came to power.
http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/tax/budgets/2009/british-columbia.jhtml#Corporate
As to what I'll absorb- I won't be raising my prices since Gordo raised the tax. I was exempt of PST.
As to looking elsewhere- go for it. If I don't have enough on the ball to run a profitable business, then it's survival of the fittest.
Your other questions, again if I can't swim , I'll sink and someone else will rise from the ashes.
What I don't expect is corporate welfare to keep me afloat.
A lot of business sounds like a spoiled child that never gets enough, so let's go grab some of the other kid's stuff. The economics of greed or lack of business skills..... ::)
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Well this has to be one of the dumbest statements of all time!!
I'll post about business in BC that won't give a penny back as the products don't sell here and they're based abroad
This is so typical of the NDP hacks, they have no clue about business and how those companies that make products in BC and sell them overseas are critical for our existence and life style in BC.
They bring the money back to BC, which is paid in taxes, wages, employee benefits , social payments. Sure lets cut back on these businesses and watch them take their operations elsewhere, where they are welcomed with open arms. And String them up if they dare make a profit or the hard working pepole have better lives. Freeloaders always complain and what everything delivered to them without having to do a decent days work. The loader the complaints the more they want.
Again, you assume I'm an NDP supporter. Tell me , where do you get that info from? It's not accurate, but make up stuff as you wish.
" Freeloaders always complain and what everything delivered to them without having to do a decent days work. "
Inaccurate - I work and work hard.
"The loader the complaints the more they want."
Just like the pro HST crowd! They've gotten generous tax cuts and now they want to shift more on to the consumer! Ironic isn't it?
Instead of flinging insults and such, try backing up your arguments instead of calling those that don't agree with you "dumb". (BTW- My "gender" says it's louder, not loader ;))
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Whooooo hooooo!
We have reached our 15% internal goal in 71 out of the 85 ridings, with the remaining ones really, really close. And excellent news - Vancouver-Quilchena has joined the "red club!" Look out Mr. Hansen!
Congrats to Vancouver West, Burnaby and Richmond. Even though they got a later start, all have worked feverishly to catch up and are now only one week away from catching up to the rest of you! Way to go!
We will win this! BC rocks!!!
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Seems that all that hard work may be for naught...
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The anti-HST initiative is doomed. Here's why
BY GEOFF PLANT, SPECIAL TO THE SUN JUNE 4, 2010 COMMENTS (6)
If media statements are to be believed, the organizers of the anti-HST initiative petition are on the verge of success. But their initiative petition is fundamentally flawed and cannot possibly achieve the purpose that they intend.
To understand why, it is necessary to say something about the process under the Recall and Initiative Act, and to examine the actual petition.
An initiative petition is not just a political campaign, it is a legal process.
At the heart of every initiative petition is a draft statute. The purpose of an initiative campaign is not simply to complain about government policy -- there are lots of other ways to do that. The purpose of an initiative campaign is to require the legislature to pass a statute. The proposed statute is part of the petition itself.
The Recall and Initiative Act states clearly that an initiative may be undertaken in respect only of an issue that is within the jurisdiction of the province. In addition, the act also states that the draft bill must be clear and unambiguous. The initiative petition fails on both these grounds.
The draft bill prepared by the anti-HST campaign is called the HST Extinguishment Act. Its central provision states very simply "[T]he HST is hereby extinguished in British Columbia."
As everyone knows or should know, the HST is not provincial legislation. It's part of a federal statute, which can be amended or "extinguished" only by the federal Parliament. The legislature of British Columbia has no ability to extinguish federal legislation.
The draft bill is therefore a constitutional impossibility. It cannot be passed by the provincial legislature.
It's important to realize that the question is not whether the anti-HST campaigners could have drafted a valid bill, but whether they did. No lawyer ever succeeded in court by asking a judge to ignore the words of a statute and decide the case on the basis of what the legislature should have said.
The proposed initiative bill is flawed on other grounds. Its preamble states that the HST "contravenes" the provisions of our constitution under which the provinces have the power to impose direct taxation.
Unfortunately for the anti-HST campaigners, this is simply not the law. If they had asked, any constitutional law student could have explained that the federal government has the power to raise money by any mode or system of taxation. Therefore, the federal government has all the constitutional authority it needs to enact the HST, which is just the GST by another name. Similarly, while the provincial government clearly has authority to enact the PST, it is equally capable of deciding not to, and that is what it did when it repealed the PST.
It is hardly satisfactory to have the statute books of British Columbia filled with preambles that are constitutional nonsense.
Other provisions of the proposed bill fail to satisfy the requirement that it be "clear and unambiguous." For example, the section of the bill that tries to provide for some kind of refund to British Columbians is particularly problematic. How will eligibility for this refund be determined? By whom? Where will the money come from to pay for it? None of this is answered in the bill.
In addition, the bill would reinstate the PST as the "only" sales tax in British Columbia. It is completely silent on what therefore would happen to, for example, the Hotel Room Tax, and the Motor Fuel Tax -- are they to be repealed or reinstated? If so, on what basis?
The fact is that this proposed initiative bill should never have been accepted by Elections B.C. It does not meet the statutory requirements. But somehow it was accepted, and thousands of British Columbians have been induced to sign it in the belief that it will cause the repeal of the HST, when it can do no such thing.
And what next? There is no procedure in the Recall and Initiative Act for correcting the flaws in an initiative bill, once it has been accepted by the chief electoral officer. If the necessary signatures are obtained, the bill goes to a committee of the legislature. The committee either recommends that the bill be introduced in the legislature, or refers it back to Elections B.C. for a provincewide vote.
To undertake a provincewide vote in the face of the constitutional issues I have described would be a mistake.
There is another option. Under a statute called the Constitutional Question Act, the provincial cabinet has the power to refer any matter to the Supreme Court or Court of Appeal of B.C. for hearing and consideration. (This is the procedure that the government is using to test the constitutionality of the Criminal Code provisions outlawing polygamy.)
My suggestion is this: If the signature drive succeeds, the committee should be convened and recommend that the draft bill be tabled in the house, and immediately thereafter the bill should be referred to the courts for an opinion on its constitutional validity.
Nothing will be lost by such a procedure and much will be gained. If the bill is found to be valid, it can be debated and voted on in the house. If not, the petitioners will be free to try again, but this time the campaign will be conducted against the backdrop of a much clearer understanding of how our Constitution works.
Some may say it would be a shame if it turns out that so much energy has been invested by so many people in a failed undertaking. But that is what the rule of law is all about -- making sure that we conduct our politics according to law.
This petition fails that test. If it is fatally flawed, as I believe, its proponents alone are to blame.
Geoff Plant is a partner at Heenan Blaikie LLP and a former Liberal attorney-general of British Columbia.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
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The anti-HST initiative is doomed. Here's why
BY GEOFF PLANT, SPECIAL TO THE SUN JUNE 4, 2010 COMMENTS (6)
If media statements are to be believed, the organizers of the anti-HST initiative petition are on the verge of success. But their initiative petition is fundamentally flawed and cannot possibly achieve the purpose that they intend.
To understand why, it is necessary to say something about the process under the Recall and Initiative Act, and to examine the actual petition.
An initiative petition is not just a political campaign, it is a legal process.
At the heart of every initiative petition is a draft statute. The purpose of an initiative campaign is not simply to complain about government policy -- there are lots of other ways to do that. The purpose of an initiative campaign is to require the legislature to pass a statute. The proposed statute is part of the petition itself.
The Recall and Initiative Act states clearly that an initiative may be undertaken in respect only of an issue that is within the jurisdiction of the province. In addition, the act also states that the draft bill must be clear and unambiguous. The initiative petition fails on both these grounds.
The draft bill prepared by the anti-HST campaign is called the HST Extinguishment Act. Its central provision states very simply "[T]he HST is hereby extinguished in British Columbia."
As everyone knows or should know, the HST is not provincial legislation. It's part of a federal statute, which can be amended or "extinguished" only by the federal Parliament. The legislature of British Columbia has no ability to extinguish federal legislation.
The draft bill is therefore a constitutional impossibility. It cannot be passed by the provincial legislature.
It's important to realize that the question is not whether the anti-HST campaigners could have drafted a valid bill, but whether they did. No lawyer ever succeeded in court by asking a judge to ignore the words of a statute and decide the case on the basis of what the legislature should have said.
The proposed initiative bill is flawed on other grounds. Its preamble states that the HST "contravenes" the provisions of our constitution under which the provinces have the power to impose direct taxation.
Unfortunately for the anti-HST campaigners, this is simply not the law. If they had asked, any constitutional law student could have explained that the federal government has the power to raise money by any mode or system of taxation. Therefore, the federal government has all the constitutional authority it needs to enact the HST, which is just the GST by another name. Similarly, while the provincial government clearly has authority to enact the PST, it is equally capable of deciding not to, and that is what it did when it repealed the PST.
It is hardly satisfactory to have the statute books of British Columbia filled with preambles that are constitutional nonsense.
Other provisions of the proposed bill fail to satisfy the requirement that it be "clear and unambiguous." For example, the section of the bill that tries to provide for some kind of refund to British Columbians is particularly problematic. How will eligibility for this refund be determined? By whom? Where will the money come from to pay for it? None of this is answered in the bill.
In addition, the bill would reinstate the PST as the "only" sales tax in British Columbia. It is completely silent on what therefore would happen to, for example, the Hotel Room Tax, and the Motor Fuel Tax -- are they to be repealed or reinstated? If so, on what basis?
The fact is that this proposed initiative bill should never have been accepted by Elections B.C. It does not meet the statutory requirements. But somehow it was accepted, and thousands of British Columbians have been induced to sign it in the belief that it will cause the repeal of the HST, when it can do no such thing.
And what next? There is no procedure in the Recall and Initiative Act for correcting the flaws in an initiative bill, once it has been accepted by the chief electoral officer. If the necessary signatures are obtained, the bill goes to a committee of the legislature. The committee either recommends that the bill be introduced in the legislature, or refers it back to Elections B.C. for a provincewide vote.
To undertake a provincewide vote in the face of the constitutional issues I have described would be a mistake.
There is another option. Under a statute called the Constitutional Question Act, the provincial cabinet has the power to refer any matter to the Supreme Court or Court of Appeal of B.C. for hearing and consideration. (This is the procedure that the government is using to test the constitutionality of the Criminal Code provisions outlawing polygamy.)
My suggestion is this: If the signature drive succeeds, the committee should be convened and recommend that the draft bill be tabled in the house, and immediately thereafter the bill should be referred to the courts for an opinion on its constitutional validity.
Nothing will be lost by such a procedure and much will be gained. If the bill is found to be valid, it can be debated and voted on in the house. If not, the petitioners will be free to try again, but this time the campaign will be conducted against the backdrop of a much clearer understanding of how our Constitution works.
Some may say it would be a shame if it turns out that so much energy has been invested by so many people in a failed undertaking. But that is what the rule of law is all about -- making sure that we conduct our politics according to law.
This petition fails that test. If it is fatally flawed, as I believe, its proponents alone are to blame.
Geoff Plant is a partner at Heenan Blaikie LLP and a former Liberal attorney-general of British Columbia.
we know we couldnt stop it from the start. but its better to die fighting.
lol or better yet, maybe its time BC becomes its own country o.O
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Seems that all that hard work may be for naught...
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The anti-HST initiative is doomed. Here's why
BY GEOFF PLANT, SPECIAL TO THE SUN JUNE 4, 2010 COMMENTS (6)
If media statements are to be believed, the organizers of the anti-HST initiative petition are on the verge of success. But their initiative petition is fundamentally flawed and cannot possibly achieve the purpose that they intend.
To understand why, it is necessary to say something about the process under the Recall and Initiative Act, and to examine the actual petition.
An initiative petition is not just a political campaign, it is a legal process.
At the heart of every initiative petition is a draft statute. The purpose of an initiative campaign is not simply to complain about government policy -- there are lots of other ways to do that. The purpose of an initiative campaign is to require the legislature to pass a statute. The proposed statute is part of the petition itself.
The Recall and Initiative Act states clearly that an initiative may be undertaken in respect only of an issue that is within the jurisdiction of the province. In addition, the act also states that the draft bill must be clear and unambiguous. The initiative petition fails on both these grounds.
The draft bill prepared by the anti-HST campaign is called the HST Extinguishment Act. Its central provision states very simply "[T]he HST is hereby extinguished in British Columbia."
As everyone knows or should know, the HST is not provincial legislation. It's part of a federal statute, which can be amended or "extinguished" only by the federal Parliament. The legislature of British Columbia has no ability to extinguish federal legislation.
The draft bill is therefore a constitutional impossibility. It cannot be passed by the provincial legislature.
It's important to realize that the question is not whether the anti-HST campaigners could have drafted a valid bill, but whether they did. No lawyer ever succeeded in court by asking a judge to ignore the words of a statute and decide the case on the basis of what the legislature should have said.
The proposed initiative bill is flawed on other grounds. Its preamble states that the HST "contravenes" the provisions of our constitution under which the provinces have the power to impose direct taxation.
Unfortunately for the anti-HST campaigners, this is simply not the law. If they had asked, any constitutional law student could have explained that the federal government has the power to raise money by any mode or system of taxation. Therefore, the federal government has all the constitutional authority it needs to enact the HST, which is just the GST by another name. Similarly, while the provincial government clearly has authority to enact the PST, it is equally capable of deciding not to, and that is what it did when it repealed the PST.
It is hardly satisfactory to have the statute books of British Columbia filled with preambles that are constitutional nonsense.
Other provisions of the proposed bill fail to satisfy the requirement that it be "clear and unambiguous." For example, the section of the bill that tries to provide for some kind of refund to British Columbians is particularly problematic. How will eligibility for this refund be determined? By whom? Where will the money come from to pay for it? None of this is answered in the bill.
In addition, the bill would reinstate the PST as the "only" sales tax in British Columbia. It is completely silent on what therefore would happen to, for example, the Hotel Room Tax, and the Motor Fuel Tax -- are they to be repealed or reinstated? If so, on what basis?
The fact is that this proposed initiative bill should never have been accepted by Elections B.C. It does not meet the statutory requirements. But somehow it was accepted, and thousands of British Columbians have been induced to sign it in the belief that it will cause the repeal of the HST, when it can do no such thing.
And what next? There is no procedure in the Recall and Initiative Act for correcting the flaws in an initiative bill, once it has been accepted by the chief electoral officer. If the necessary signatures are obtained, the bill goes to a committee of the legislature. The committee either recommends that the bill be introduced in the legislature, or refers it back to Elections B.C. for a provincewide vote.
To undertake a provincewide vote in the face of the constitutional issues I have described would be a mistake.
There is another option. Under a statute called the Constitutional Question Act, the provincial cabinet has the power to refer any matter to the Supreme Court or Court of Appeal of B.C. for hearing and consideration. (This is the procedure that the government is using to test the constitutionality of the Criminal Code provisions outlawing polygamy.)
My suggestion is this: If the signature drive succeeds, the committee should be convened and recommend that the draft bill be tabled in the house, and immediately thereafter the bill should be referred to the courts for an opinion on its constitutional validity.
Nothing will be lost by such a procedure and much will be gained. If the bill is found to be valid, it can be debated and voted on in the house. If not, the petitioners will be free to try again, but this time the campaign will be conducted against the backdrop of a much clearer understanding of how our Constitution works.
Some may say it would be a shame if it turns out that so much energy has been invested by so many people in a failed undertaking. But that is what the rule of law is all about -- making sure that we conduct our politics according to law.
This petition fails that test. If it is fatally flawed, as I believe, its proponents alone are to blame.
Geoff Plant is a partner at Heenan Blaikie LLP and a former Liberal attorney-general of British Columbia.
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
Former Liberal cabinet minister so what do you expect him to write? A column against the HST? ::)
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Former Liberal cabinet minister so what do you expect him to write? A column against the HST? ::)
I don't think he is speaking pro or against, but is speaking to the legalities involved. Let's see if and NDP lawyer steps up to the plate and disputes it.
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Seems that all that hard work may be for naught...
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The anti-HST initiative is doomed. Here's why
Even if it is the Liberals are doomed for sure in the next election if not before and them bringing the HST in has drawn a lot of attention to their arrogance, lack of transparency, fiscal irresponsibility, poor environmental standards, etc. and the list grows longer each week.
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Wow! Does that ever let the air out of the anti-HST balloon! The question is; Did Bill know about this when he introduced this petition and went ahead anyway because he saw the political opportunity of it all?
Or........ Did Bill just start flapping his gum's without checking into the legality of what he was proposing?
Why didn't he go after a recall campaign rather than something logical like the HST? Had he gone that route I would probably be campaigning elbow to elbow with Chris in order to dump our MLA!
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Wow! Does that ever let the air out of the anti-HST balloon! The question is; Did Bill know about this when he introduced this petition and went ahead anyway because he saw the political opportunity of it all?
Or........ Did Bill just start flapping his gum's without checking into the legality of what he was proposing?
Why didn't he go after a recall campaign rather than something logical like the HST? Had he gone that route I would probably be campaigning elbow to elbow with Chris in order to dump our MLA!
--lawyers give opinion not judgement, the comments of Geoff Plant though interesting are no more credable than many of the comments we've seen here.
--My opinion is, recall will be easier or harder depending upon how the various MLA's react in the house to the petition. It may be that some MLA's from both sides of the house will be facing recall
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A man went into a guard dog facility, fed up with his business being robbed repeatedly. The owner pointed to a cage with a nasty looking Doberman in it " Not mean enough" replied the man. Next, they came upon a pit bull, snarling and frothing - "Pussy cat" replied the man - "I want something REALLY mean. The trainer led him to the back where an old mangy mutt lay passively licking his hind quarters. "That old cur? He doesn't look mean. He's just laying there licking his butt" . "I know " said the trainer " He just ate Gordon Campbell and he's trying to get the taste out of his mouth". ;D
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http://www.elections.bc.ca/docs/init/HST-Extinguishment-Act.pdf
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Hello Chris
Fight HST Petition hits 15% in 80 of 85 Ridings
Vander Zalm refutes former BC Liberal Attorney General Plant
Delta – The Fight HST petition continues to steamroll forward, adding another 9 ridings to the 15% of registered voters’ signatures for a total of 80 of 85 ridings to meet the Fight HST internal threshold.
Fight HST Lead Organizer, Chris Delaney, says the total signatures gathered is over 620,000, more than double the Elections BC threshold of 300,000 signatures required across the 85 electoral districts in BC.
“Even with a rainy Vancouver weekend, we were still able to close the gap in another 9 ridings. We are extremely pleased, and will work hard to complete our internal threshold of 15% in the remaining ridings next week,” said Delaney.
Fight HST Leader, Bill Vander Zalm, said the BC Government has become desperate in the face of the overwhelming success of the anti-HST petition. He says they have stooped to new lows to try to fight the people of BC, and are now making up bogus arguments about the ‘legality’ of the petition.
“They started off trying to tell everyone the HST was the best thing they could do to stimulate jobs and the economy in BC. When nobody bought that, they started saying we were misinforming people. When they couldn’t back that up, they began looking for another angle. Now they’re trying to say the petition and accompanying legislation, which was legally vetted by lawyers at Elections BC is ‘illegal’. They are right out of orbit,” said Vander Zalm.
Vander Zalm says a recent article by former BC Liberal Attorney General, Geoff Plant, characterizing the petition legislation as illegal would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic and obviously political. He says Plant’s key assertion, that the HST is federal and can’t be terminated by BC cannot be taken seriously.
“If that were true, then the federal government could simply create the HST in any province it wanted, without even asking them. They could set it at any rate they wanted, and could apply it to anything they wanted.”
“But the reality is, both BC and Ottawa signed an agreement that can be terminated by either side. Our petition, if passed by the Legislature, will terminate the Agreement that created the HST, thereby extinguishing the HST in BC. It’s not rocket science. The federal government will have no choice but to respect the will of British Columbia voters – only a Liberal Plant would suggest otherwise,” concluded Vander Zalm.
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ROLLING,ROLLING,ROLLING!!!!!
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If anyone actually thinks this petition is going to change anything i think your in for some disapointment.
This Campbell government has been doing what it wants all along.
Whats really scary is people will still vote or this guy if and when he runs again.
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I think the main point of the anti-HST rallies was to set up the structure for the recall process.
The BC government has to agree to drop the HST or hold a referendum now that the 10% signatures level has been reached.
It now appears that only the Federal government has the control as to whether the HST comes into effect or not.
As has been discussed before, most people are not as upset with the HST itself as they are with the way that the provincial Liberals brought it in.
It should be very easy to target certain MLAs come November now that it has been proven that the signature levels can be reached.
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ROLLING,ROLLING,ROLLING!!!!!
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RIGHT ALONG ;D ;D ;D
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Almost comical, watching Libs try to turn tide
Gov't could fall if it lost seven seats to recall
By Michael Smyth, The Province June 8, 2010 9:17 AM Comments (31)
•Columbia is witnessing a display of people power like nothing before — and it has the government thoroughly baffled, befuddled and bamboozled.
With Bill Vander Zalm's anti-HST petition soaring over the legal signature threshold (with a month still to go in the sign-up period), it's almost comical watching the Liberals try to turn back the tide of public anger.
Plan A was to simply ignore Vander Zalm. The government didn't even bother registering with Elections B.C. as an official opponent of his citizen-initiative petition, legally handcuffing themselves and severely restricting their ability to fight back.
Plan B was to accuse Vander Zalm of spreading misinformation about the harmonized sales tax — pretty rich for a government that refused for 10 months even to release a list of goods and services that will rise in price (before finally posting a woefully incomplete list late last month).
Last week, the Liberal chair of the legislature's citizen-initiative committee threatened to declare the petition "invalid" on constitutional grounds.
Just one little problem there: that would be illegal. I'm not sure you can dignify that smooth move by calling it a "plan," but let's go ahead and call it Plan C. For Cockamamie.
And now comes Plan D. For Duh. Geoff Plant, the former Liberal attorney-general, has gone public with his opinion that a provincial petition can't overturn a federally administered tax, so the 620,000 signatures (and counting) should be turned over to the courts to deal with.
Never mind that the HST was B.C.'s idea, brought in at the request of the Gordon Campbell government and with its full legal backing and co-operation.
But for Plant to argue now that Vander Zalm's petition is "illegal" totally misses the point.
The grassroots fight against the HST is not a legal battle, it's a political one. It's not whether Campbell is going to follow the letter of the law, but whether he's going to follow the will of the people, and what will happen to him and his government if he doesn't.
Let's talk a little political reality for a minute. Can you imagine if Campbell was to ask Prime Minister Stephen Harper to cancel the HST, and Harper went ahead with it anyway? Unlike the provincial Liberals, I don't think Harper's Conservatives are all that anxious to slice their own throats, especially when a federal election could be triggered at any time.
Few people are going to buy the Campbell government's argument that the HST can't be undone by B.C. And to declare the petition illegal, or to challenge it in court, or to pull some other technical stunt, might make people even angrier.
Don't forget Vander Zalm's 6,000-strong army of canvassers could start circulating new petitions in November: recall petitions. Don't forget that, if the Liberals lost seven seats in resulting byelections, the entire government could fall.
So perhaps the government will use its other legal option in the face of a successful petition: Agree to a non-binding referendum on the HST in September 2011, and pray that the anger — and the threat of recall — wanes in the meantime.
To the delight of their enemies, the Liberals seem uninterested in Plan E: Extinguish the HST.
Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/opinion/Almost+comical+watching+Libs+turn+tide/3125317/story.html#ixzz0qI9kukov
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As a result of the HST, we will no longer need to pay sales tax on any personal goods purchased in Washington State.
British Columbia, Ontario Residents to Become Eligible for Non-resident Sales Tax Exemption
OLYMPIA – June 8, 2010 – Beginning July 1, residents of British Columbia and Ontario become eligible for a non-resident sales tax exemption on purchases of goods in Washington for use outside the state.
State law allows a sales tax exemption to residents of jurisdictions that impose a sales tax of three percent or less. Washington sellers are not required to make tax-exempt sales to qualifying nonresidents, but most do. The exemption applies only to tangible personal property and does not apply to lodging, meals, or other retail services that are provided in the state.
In order to receive the exemption, qualifying residents must show proof of residency, such as a driver’s license, to the Washington seller. The seller must retain the information to support the exemption in the event of a tax audit.
Residents of British Columbia and Ontario previously did not qualify for the exemption but both provinces are adopting a harmonized sales tax (HST) in tandem with the Canadian federal government beginning July 1. The HST technically is a value-added tax (VAT) and not a sales tax.
Residents of other Canadian provinces that impose the harmonized VAT have been eligible for the exemption for years.
Six states, including Alaska, Colorado, Oregon, Montana, Delaware and New Hampshire, eight Canadian provinces, and four U.S. possessions already qualify for this exemption.
The exemption statute, RCW 82.08.0273, was enacted in 1965.
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Gordo's economic action plan for Washington state. He has the same plan for Alberta border towns....
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Gordo's economic action plan for Washington state. He has the same plan for Alberta border towns....
???
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As a result of the HST, we will no longer need to pay sales tax on any personal goods purchased in Washington State.
British Columbia, Ontario Residents to Become Eligible for Non-resident Sales Tax Exemption
--Great plus for HST lets all shop in USA it will really help BC recover and oh yah now that this is a VAT won't we also have to pay HST on mail order bought in Ontario or other provinces that have HST.. another reason to not shop Canadian..Just what we need. There is nothing stopping these guys from ...dare I say it Lowering the HST... to make it more revenue neutral..they would still have the savings from the simple single tax collection system.
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???
Where will the masses flock to? They sure as shootin' won't be spending the money with BC business if they can save 12% in Washington or 7% in Alberta. You're getting rusty AF.
Quote from Jack Webster - Stoopit , stoopit, stoopit.
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I don't have any problem with the consumer getting a good deal!
Novabonker, you confuse me..... One day you're down on greedy, profitable BC business and the next day you are concerned about BC business being able to survive ??? ???
And don't tell me the present regime hasn't put business ahead of the citizens many times in it's rule.Look at how they've slashed business taxes.......... if you read the business section, this week especially, they're turning monster profits- untaxed. I'm not understanding why the citizens should pay more taxes to subsidize business. Again - if you don't have the smarts to make your business run, than you aren't smart enough to run a business. Profit yes- GREED no. Campbell has already gifted enough to business. The business community makes it's profits, so they should make more off the backs of the average working stiff, not "the lazy and freeloaders" :o If a business owner lacks the intelligence and ability to earn enough through the present system, then there is no hope for them period. The last time I looked, there was no shortage of business operating that do have enough smarts to make it.
Since 1965 Washington State has recognized that in order for it's businesses to compete with low tax or no tax jurisdictions that it needed to eliminate the sales tax from it's products.
They realized that someone in Oregon would not go across the border into Washington when they could buy the same product in Oregon, tax free! However because of Washington's law, since 1965 anyone in Oregon can buy Washington products tax free.
It's taken 45 years...... however with the new HST (because PST is no longer added to the cost of their products) businesses in BC will finally be able to compete with businesses in low tax or no tax jurisdictions!
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Merely pointing out some of the effects the HST will have ON business. I'm not anti profit. I work to make one my self. ;D But I am against shifting tax from business on to the back of the citizens. Seems pretty simple to me.
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AF- Here's what I'm talking about , since you seem to not understand .
http://www.theprovince.com/news/could+sending+shoppers+south/3134654/story.html
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As usual looks like only half the story is getting out.
Its nice to see the tax exemption for washington state, but before everyone jumps on the bandwagon complaining remember there is this line called the border and as all those shoppers cross the border back into Canada, they have to pay HST on the goods purchased unless they stay down for more than 24 hours or longer.Cross border shopping has been going on for decades long before the HST ever was thought of.
One other point that has been missed what about the $1.6 billion bonus form the Federal government for implementing the HST, if HST gets cancelled this will have to be repaid back.
Nice to see the certain people have all the time in the world to post dozens of comments on a fishing web site.!!!
cheers
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Bad news for the Liberals - The latest Angus Reid research puts the Liberals at 26 per cent support in B.C. - that's down 20 points since May's election. The NDP sits at 46 per cent.
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/64882--poll-liberals-popularity-sinking
The poll also found more than 60 per cent of British Columbians living in Liberal-held ridings would be willing to sign a petition to unseat their MLA.
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The drive has gone so well Bill says tonight the petitions are going to be delivered a week earlier than planned to Election BC.
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http://www.visioncritical.com/2010/06/referendum-and-recall-drive-loom-as-serious-threats-to-bc-liberals/
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The first to abandon the sinking ship?
BLAIR LEKSTROM RESIGNS OVER HST
Jun 11, 2010
A BC CABINET MINISTER RESIGNED FRIDAY MORNING. MINISTER OF ENERGY MINES AND PETROLEUM RESOURCES BLAIR LEKSTROM SAYS HE WILL STEP DOWN FROM CABINET OVER THE WIDESPREAD OPPOSITION TO THE HST.
IN THE RESIGNATION LETTER HE SENT TO THE PREMIER HE SAYS "I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO BRING THE MOVE TO HST TO A HALT AND IMMEDIATELY ENGAGE BRITISH COLUMBIANS IN A DIALOGUE ABOUT OUR TAXATION POLICY."
BILL BENNET WILL REPLACE LEKSTROM AS MINISTER FOR ENERGY MINES AND PETROLEUM RESOURCES; HE WILL BE APPOINTED LATER FRIDAY MORNING.
LEKSTROM WILL REMAIN AS MLA FOR PEACE RIVER SOUTH.
From: http://www.cfax1070.com/newsstory.php?newsId=13962
And: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Liberal+cabinet+minister+resigns+over/3142318/story.html
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Good for Blair.
This is a prime example of why is was important to oppose the HST. It certainly distills what many were saying it was a waste of time working on gathering names for the petition. If all that were concerned and just did nothing this would have not happened. It shows people power does exist and it may make politicans of all parties pay more attention to the public in the future. Democracy lives and I wonder who will be the next to leave, hopefully it will be the HST.
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Good for Blair.
This is a prime example of why is was important to oppose the HST. It certainly distills what many were saying it was a waste of time working on gathering names for the petition. If all that were concerned and just did nothing this would have not happened. It shows people power does exist and it may make politicans of all parties pay more attention to the public in the future. Democracy lives and I wonder who will be the next to leave, hopefully it will be the HST.
This is probably the first time you and I disagree on this matter...... ;D
All this is a prime example of is a weak knee'd MLA who supported doing the right thing for the province until he realized that it might effect his ability to get votes in the next election. Then he caved and put his opportunity to get elected ahead of his responsibility to do the right thing!
I hear that the BC Conservatives are looking for a candidate in that constituency..... any bets on where he ends up?
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This is probably the first time you and I disagree on this matter...... ;D
All this is a prime example of is a weak knee'd MLA who supported doing the right thing for the province until he realized that it might effect his ability to get votes in the next election. Then he caved and put his opportunity to get elected ahead of his responsibility to do the right thing!
I hear that the BC Conservatives are looking for a candidate in that constituency..... any bets on where he ends up?
Any bets who will be joining him? ;D ;D
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Any bets who will be joining him? ;D ;D
Hopefully all the rest of the weak knee'd ministers in the Liberal party...... ;D ;D
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Hopefully all the rest of the weak knee'd ministers in the Liberal party...... ;D ;D
Ummm... Wouldn't that be the Entire Lot?? ;D
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Maybe he sees something nasty coming down the pipe related to his own portfolio (energy, mines and petroleum resources) and is using the HST as a convenient excuse to get out of Dodge without raising suspicions.
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Ummm... Wouldn't that be the Entire Lot?? ;D
It took a lot of guts (read no weak knee's) to put HST in place. As much as the Liberal party can be criticized for many things, putting in a tax that has some logic to it (versus the PST) took a lot of guts.
Even Lekstrom acknowledges that the HST is a good decision. "I recognize and admit that I supported the HST when our government made the decision to move forward with it last summer. And, as a member of Caucus and Cabinet, I can confirm that the HST was not contemplated before the May 2009 election. This is not about being right or wrong; in fact, I firmly believe that government is making a decision they believe will help the province, but as we have been unable to bring the public along..... As the demand for services continues to grow, we must review current systems and make some difficult decisions; do we increase income taxes, increase the PST, implement the HST or cut programs and services? I firmly believe that British Columbians must be realistic and recognize that without a strong economy and competitive tax regimes, government cannot afford to meet their continued demands for increased investments in health care, education, social services and all other programs British Columbians enjoy."
loosely translated ...... "I know HST is the right decision, but I need my job so I'll say and do anything, to try get the public to like me" ???
They say if you can't stand the heat..... get out of the kitchen!
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I simply don't perceive caving to the DickTator's demand that the entire LIEberal Party get onside with this grossly unpopular tax (or face the consequences) as anything even remotely close to "a lot of guts". In fact, my thoughts are that the majority are indeed a collection of Spineless Sheep who are so cowed by their current leader and his demands to stay in line that they downright fear any form of dissent. Certainly there may be those who actually believe in this action, but methinks the larger component simply follow along blindly, as they are directed to. To stray from that particular path takes far more intestinal fortitude IMHO than sticking with the increasingly disastrous party line.
And yes, there is indeed shortfalls in the Provincial coffers. But there are a great many alternatives that could (should?) be considered before imposing an Ottawa controlled taxation system:
- Perhaps consider reducing the incessant salary increases and pensions handed over to those that continuously screw us while engaged in "politics" provincially;
- Perhaps consider re-instating the multi-billion dollar tax breaks joyfully handed over to Banks and Big Business and expecting the Common Man to pick up the slack;
- Perhaps consider NOT throwing cost-prohibitive Glory-Seeking Parties when faced with increasing debt loads and a struggling economy;
- Perhaps consider NOT spending taxpayers dollars on world gallivanting, personal enriching extravaganzas;
- Perhaps realizing that the taxation rate in this Province is right there amongst the highest in the Western World, and is quickly nearing the Breaking Point;
- Perhaps just a little consideration to Moderation when spending willy-nilly on so many worthless projects, and a little (LOT?) more focus on what Basic Requirements are...
The list could go on and on, but methinks you'll get the point. The basic frivolous nature of the LIEberals handling of the Provincial coffers is the amongst the greatest strains on available funding. A LOT more focus should be centered on Requirements, rather than on foolish and often flamboyant expenditures. Under this current regime, that ain't at all likely to happen. So be it, they WILL reap what they have sown, and methinks when the "legacy" of Gordo is eventually written, it will most likely not be all that complimentary.
The People are speaking, yet the ProvGov chooses to blatantly ignore the message. Takes "guts"? No, more so takes an Inane Fool at the helm to jeopardize the whole.
Cheers,
Nog
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I simply don't perceive caving to the DickTator's demand that the entire LIEberal Party get onside with this grossly unpopular tax (or face the consequences) as anything even remotely close to "a lot of guts". In fact, my thoughts are that the majority are indeed a collection of Spineless Sheep who are so cowed by their current leader and his demands to stay in line that they downright fear any form of dissent. Certainly there may be those who actually believe in this action, but methinks the larger component simply follow along blindly, as they are directed to. To stray from that particular path takes far more intestinal fortitude IMHO than sticking with the increasingly disastrous party line.
And yes, there is indeed shortfalls in the Provincial coffers. But there are a great many alternatives that could (should?) be considered before imposing an Ottawa controlled taxation system:
- Perhaps consider reducing the incessant salary increases and pensions handed over to those that continuously screw us while engaged in "politics" provincially;
- Perhaps consider re-instating the multi-billion dollar tax breaks joyfully handed over to Banks and Big Business and expecting the Common Man to pick up the slack;
- Perhaps consider NOT throwing cost-prohibitive Glory-Seeking Parties when faced with increasing debt loads and a struggling economy;
- Perhaps consider NOT spending taxpayers dollars on world gallivanting, personal enriching extravaganzas;
- Perhaps realizing that the taxation rate in this Province is right there amongst the highest in the Western World, and is quickly nearing the Breaking Point;
- Perhaps just a little consideration to Moderation when spending willy-nilly on so many worthless projects, and a little (LOT?) more focus on what Basic Requirements are...
The list could go on and on, but methinks you'll get the point. The basic frivolous nature of the LIEberals handling of the Provincial coffers is the amongst the greatest strains on available funding. A LOT more focus should be centered on Requirements, rather than on foolish and often flamboyant expenditures. Under this current regime, that ain't at all likely to happen. So be it, they WILL reap what they have sown, and methinks when the "legacy" of Gordo is eventually written, it will most likely not be all that complimentary.
The People are speaking, yet the ProvGov chooses to blatantly ignore the message. Takes "guts"? No, more so takes an Inane Fool at the helm to jeopardize the whole.
Cheers,
Nog
Great post, I feel good today that I took the time to gather some names on the petition even though I did not get as many as some others that worked in our riding. One couple got close to 3,000. ;D ;D
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The People are speaking, yet the ProvGov chooses to blatantly ignore the message.
Unfortunately because of the Liberals fumbled introduction of the HST the people are speaking but they are speaking from ignorance and misinformation. If the Liberals had of registered an opposition to the HST they could at least have spoken to it. As it is the only "information" out there is whatever the Zalm needs to say in order to get people to sign his petition. Hopefully we will see a major information campaign once the gag order is lifted.
By the way Nog, the personal tax rates in BC are the lowest in Canada! http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html)
Bank taxes are a Federal responsibility.... the rest of your points are peanuts as far as a percentage of BC's expenditures.
Let me leave you with a quote from the fellow that is "The first to abandon the sinking ship" .... "As the demand for services continues to grow, we must review current systems and make some difficult decisions; do we increase income taxes, increase the PST, implement the HST or cut programs and services? I firmly believe that British Columbians must be realistic and recognize that without a strong economy and competitive tax regimes, government cannot afford to meet their continued demands for increased investments in health care, education, social services and all other programs British Columbian's enjoy."
He gets it!
Too bad he left the ship..... :(
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...By the way Nog, the personal tax rates in BC are the lowest in Canada!
But... the "hidden" taxes (gasoline, alcohol, etc etc) and the various provincial grabs ARE amongst the highest. Have a boo, given your researching skills, I'm certain you can find it ;)
Bank taxes are a Federal responsibility....
Wrong. Shall I remind you of a previous post on the matter:
"- Phasing-out the Corporation Capital Tax which generated $100 million-plus annually for Victoria over most of the last decade and was applied mainly to the country's big banks. The Banks are certainly Happy, but the tax-payer picks up the tab.
- At the same time the above noted tax on the banks etc was being eliminated, Carole Taylor, Hansen's predecessor at the finance department introduced a new levy called the Financial Institutions Minimum Tax. This was designed to ensure that Canada's banks, insurance companies and trusts, all headquartered outside B.C. -- and very, very profitable -- nonetheless would continue to pay some monies (albeit much-reduced than formerly) directly into the provincial treasury.
Hansen and his government colleagues instead opted to repeal the minimum financial institutions tax -- even before it takes effect! So, two years after deciding to forgo most of the $100 million-plus generated annually for the province by the corporation capital tax -- instead accepting a one-time payment $48 million -- the Campbell Liberals now have resolved to let Canada's big banks keep the entire amount and pay nothing to Victoria. Again, the Banks are Happy."
The rest of your points are peanuts as far as a percentage of BC's expenditures.
Ya Think?? Really ???
Rack up exactly what the salary increases and pensions now cost in TOTAL for our "governing body". Get back to me once you have, and justify that as "peanuts" please.
Glory Seeking Parties? Care to hazard a guess as to just what the GordOlympics set us back? Peanuts you say?? Methinks NOT. We'll collectively be paying off that little scenario for a lot longer than the lifespan of the LIEberals here!
And just what did that little trip of Gordo's to the exclusive Club cost the taxpayer? Kinda funny even he can't speak to any benefits whatsoever dontcha think?
These are but a few examples of the mismanagement of tax funding since the LIEberals assumed control. There are many more. Each unto themselves are eye-opening, and collectively represent a LOT more than "peanuts" being wasted.
Perhaps the fellow who wandered does realize the extent of the shortcomings. It is however apparent that neither he, Gordo nor you recognize just how significant a role the LIEberals played in the development thereof. Perhaps you might want to reflect on the reference to "moderation" and plying attention to necessary requirements over foolishness and flamboyancy I noted above. Methinks if the LIEberals had done so, we'd collectively be a LOT better off in the overall picture!
Too bad he left the ship you say? I say Good On Him for refusing to cave into the DickTator's demands and walking away. Methinks over the next little while he ain't going to be wandering too far alone. Further, methinks that many of his cronies are likely to be foist out via RECALL in the foreseeable future. Can't think of a better answer to the bullying, open lying, arrogance and fear driven domination that well describes the current regime!
Regardless of your stance, change is indeed in the air. You can choose to try and defend the group that openly ignores the desires of it's populace, spends money like no tomorrow, while aggressively attacking our natural resource base here. Myself, methinks I'll be seeking an option. ANY option looks good at this point...
Have a Nice Day! ;D
Nog
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Geez Nog - I've been saying the same things, nowhere near as eloquently, but a few can't seem to comprehend that THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH GIVEN TO BUSINESS SINCE CAMPBELL CAME TO POWER. . Nog didn't mention the slide in the overalll corporate tax rate as well.The pendulum has swung as far to the right as it can travel. No more squeezing the citizens to hand off to business, that if run well will turn a profit. If not, why the heck should the citizens pick up the tab?. To reward ineptitude or an utter lack of business acumen? A direct transfer to business off the backs of the working stiff to banks and such and giving up sovereign rights to taxation is plain lunacy.There's the trickle down theory blown out of the water- my bank fees haven't dropped, despite the tax give away, that the citizens pick up the tab for. Campbell is gone soon, that's a foregone conclusion.Best before date is long gone, he has no credibility left, which is gone with any smattering of integrity he allegedly had. I'm not sure if Lekstrom's resignation was actually conscience or self preservation, but one down and representing the wishes of his constituents instead of Captain Campbell is a good start. These people work for us - Should we take that kind of insubordination from employees?
This wax isn't working any more.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/header.jpg)
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Press Release
Fight HST encourages other BC Liberal MLAs to do the right thing to stop the HST before it is imposed on July 1
Delta – Fight HST is welcoming today’s resignation by Energy Minister Blair Lekstrom from both the BC Liberal caucus and cabinet over his opposition to imposing the Harmonized Sales Tax.
And Fight HST citizens Initiative leader Bill Vander Zalm says if other BC Liberal MLAs would show the same integrity and courage that Lekstrom demonstrated, the HST could be stopped before it is imposed by Premier Gordon Campbell on July 1.
“Today could mark the end of the Harmonized Sales Tax in British Columbia and the beginning of elected provincial Members of the Legislative Assembly actually listening to the majority of voters,” said Vander Zalm, a former BC premier who started the anti-HST Initiative petition that has gathered over 620,000 signatures – enough to easily meet Elections BC requirements in every one of BC’s 85 ridings.
“What Blair Lekstrom did today in resigning not only his cabinet post but his BC Liberal caucus membership was an act of integrity and courage showing he is listening to the constituent who elected him as an MLA,” Vander Zalm said.
“If just a few more BC Liberal MLAs would do the same it would force Premier Campbell to stop the imposition of the HST because his government would lack the moral authority and political support to continue,” Vander Zalm concluded.
Lekstrom said in his resignation statement that: “I fundamentally disagree with the direction our government is headed on the HST.”
Fight HST Lead Organizer Chris Delaney said it’s clear from Lekstrom’s dramatic move that BC Liberal MLAs are starting to realize the overwhelming opposition of the public to the HST will have real consequences for those who ignore it.
“Blair Lekstrom has done the right thing – it’s never too late to realize your mistake – but other BC Liberal MLAs have to realize that the public is furious and they will hold those responsible for the HST to account – probably sooner than the government expected,” Delaney said.
The Fight HST campaign plans to wrap up Initiative petition gathering earlier than the July 5 deadline because of the amazing public response and file the petition at the end of June, Delaney said.
Blair Lekstrom heard from the people in his riding and across the province – it’s time for other BC Liberal MLAs to do the same and stop the HST now while they still can,” said Delaney
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BREAKING NEWS: The Blair Lekstrom Project–Replacing Jay Hill
Of course we are all a flutter over the mammoth news out of Victoria this day: A senior Cabinet Minister has bolted from Gordon Campbell’s rapidly disintegrating bailiwick.
And ain’t that grand? Because the superlatives to describe such heroism have been nauseating.
Blair Lekstrom is a principled man. Blair Lekstrom is a fighter. Blair Lekstrom is a man of honour, integrity, commitment. Constituents first! Hosana! Hubba-hubba!
He’s a hero! He’s able to leap tall buildings and the Premier’s ego (much taller), in a single bound. Praise the Lord! He’ll solve Third World Hunger! He’ll get ‘Dancing With the Stars’ cancelled!
He walks on water!
Blair Lekstrom cares about you–first.
Okay, not so fast.
There is no question that the Premier has comported himself foolishly, and, almost beyond repair, has shattered his party. And that his political career is finished thanks to his incurable megalomania. But this whole business about Blair Lekstrom vacating from the Liberal side of the aisle because of the HST is not the story.
When I heard about it this morning, I decided to do a little digging. So, while everyone else tells you what a major blow this is to the government–because a popular and reasonable Cabinet member has departed–keep reading and then at the end, you tell me what you really think about Mr. Lekstrom’s heroics.
Firstly, Blair Lekstrom, while competent and popular, was NEVER a Liberal. A dyed-in-wool Tory, he probably went into convulsions over the fact that he had to refer to himself any other way. There is no question that he was a loyal soldier, but his Ministry (of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources) has basically been run by the Premier’s Office, specifically Chief of Staff Martyn Brown. Lekstrom was never comfortable with this and was also skeptical of the whole climate change ‘green’ file and the millions being wasted. Along with John Les, Gordie Hogg, Iain Black, John Rustad, Joan McIntyre and several others, he saw the hypocrisy in what Campbell was selling to the public and didn’t like it.
Secondly, Lekstrom is one of about a dozen MLAs (including four Cabinet Ministers) who has expressed to other members of caucus that the Premier must go. He understands the damage and particularly where he’s from, very soon, there will be no turning back: Northern BCers are some of the hardest working and most decent people in the country–forgiveness will become a four-letter word if Campbell stays on much longer.
Lastly, ever since federal Conservative MP Jay Hill announced a few months ago that he was not going to run in the next election, people close to Lekstrom and two high-ranking federal Tory officials confirmed for me today, that he’s been eyeing that seat. And it makes perfect sense. He’s a great candidate for them: a down-to-earth good ole boy, competent and capable. He was a great Mayor for Dawson Creek. He’d be a lock if he wins the nomination for Prince George-Peace River, where the HST anger has reached such a feverish pitch that the number of those signed up in that riding has exceeded the amount that voted for him in the last provincial election. Moreover, as MLA for Peace River South, there is a great deal of overlap not just geographically, but influentially. So, jumping off the provincial bandwagon, at this point–aflame as it is, makes perfect sense for Lekstrom.
Hence, beware of all the pundits and pontificators in the media telling you that Lekstrom is a hero. He’s not. And that he’s mavericky and won’t put up with Campbell’s horse manure. He won’t. Or that he’s looking out for you–first–because the HST is so unpalatable and he’s just representing his people, because that may very well be…
But that isn’t because he’s looking after you–first. He’s looking after himself–you just happened to be a convenient beneficiary.
A hero would have stood up and said in a loud, clear voice: “Premier Campbell has to stop with his completely reckless agenda and leave office NOW, and take with him Mr. Hansen, Ms. Polak and everyone else of his die-nevers, including his pals who have treated the provinces best assets, like trains, rivers and prime properties as a monopoly board, and get the hell out of here, never to return–GORDON CAMPBELL ISN’T JUST DESTROYING THIS PARTY, HE’S DESTROYING THE PROVINCE”.
Now THAT would have been tough; THAT would have been mavericky; THAT would have been brutally honest.
Being a tough guy is staying and fighting for what’s right and, thus far, not a single Cabinet Minister or MLA has had the good sense to do this. Not one. They are ALL complicit, notwithstanding Mr. Falcon, Mr. Abbott and astoundingly, Mr. DeJong, are all oiling up for a poseurs pantheon of piffle (none of them can win the next election–not a Gordon Campbell’s chance in Heaven) And particularly considering it was DeJong who mindlessly gave Campbell the insane advice to ignore Bill VanderZalm and the anti-HST crowd, there isn’t an astute political operator among them–Lekstrom included.
All this proves is that it might look like Blair Lekstrom opened the door for enough dissent to walk out the Liberal door and get Campbell gone, but that just isn’t the case my friends.
If you add all this to Carole Taylor’s (I’m told) totally evaporated interest in saving it all, and Dianne Watts’ steely determination in having remade Surrey as B.C.’s runaway number one city for families to live and work in, it spells trouble with a capital ‘T’ for the Liberals–unless either of them decides to step up–because Taylor and Watts are the only two that can knock off the NDP threat (although you’d think the NDP would be pummeling the Liberals instead of confusedly lolly-gagging some three hundred thousand feet behind The Zalm’s after burners).
And never mind the flowery reviews by lazy radio talkshow hosts with binder reading addiction, who tell you that last night’s Premier’s Dinner was a success–the whisper was almost audible: “When is this (insert expletive describing your second-most popular orifice here) going to be gone?!”
No, Lekstrom could have been a tough guy, he’s certainly got the jam and called the Premier out yesterday morning, right before the dinner–and made him pay a little for his enormous sins, but no, not our Blair.
Hero? Maybe. Eventually…for the federal Conservatives.
But he’s got to win the nomination.
You heard it here, first
- Alex Tsakumis
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Unfortunately because of the Liberals fumbled introduction of the HST the people are speaking but they are speaking from ignorance and misinformation.
Ah yes- 80% under the "Too stupid to get it" file, the rest in the enlightened and sophisticated. First off, you don't do your side any favours by calling anyone who isn't on board an ignoramus. Believe me - we get it. More tax for the citizen, all given to placate the business who bought and paid for this government. The more they get, the more they want and the shrill whining is like the spoiled child at the supermarket check out.
- Will Mr. and Mrs. Piffleton be paying more taxes?
- Will business pay less?
What part of the equation is difficult to understand? The citizens are pizzed off with covering business profits with tax dollars. I wish I had the spare time to research all of the tax breaks given to the business side since Campbell inc. came to power, but unlike Comrade Glog's assertion that I have nothing better to do than play on a keyboard all day ::), I do work and work darn hard.
Keep trying- it isn't working, but I admire your stick to it attitude.
One small but salient point- the "trickle down effect" from the HST was put to pasture by the HST authors this week with the increased profits from liquor sales being kept by the Campbellites. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
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Memory Lane.....
* It’s time for a New Era of Accountability. Our plan will deliver real transparent, accountable government.
* Establish workable initiative legislation, to make it feasible for British Columbians to call for a referendum on issues of province-wide concern that fall within the provincial government’s jurisdiction.
* Establish workable recall legislation, to make it easier for citizens to hold MLAs accountable.
* Give all MLAs and citizens a better voice in government through active legislative committees.
* Hold open Cabinet meetings at least once a month that are televised and broadcast live on the Internet.
* Give all government MLAs a meaningful new role in policy development and service planning through a new system of Cabinet decision-making.
* Introduce free votes in the Legislature, to allow all MLAs to vote freely on behalf of their constituents on all matters not specifically identified as a vote of confidence.
* Not sell or privatize BC Rail.
* Vigorously defend the Crown's ownership of provincial land and resources.
* Protect BC Hydro and all of core assets, including dams, reservoirs and power lines under public ownership.
* Restore an independent BC Utilities Commission, to re-regulate BC Hydro’s electricity rates.
* Pass a Living Rivers Act to protect and improve BC’s river systems with scientifically-based standards for watershed management, enhancements to fish habitat, and a 10-year program to correct past damage.
* Push for provincial control over the management and revenues of BC’s offshore fisheries, to improve fisheries management and protect fishery jobs.
* Adopt a scientifically-based, principled approach to environmental management that ensures sustainability, accountability and responsibility.
* You shouldn’t have to pay higher than necessary electricity or auto insurance rates, because government wants to play politics with BC Hydro or ICBC.
* Give school boards multi-year funding envelopes, to improve long-term education planning and budgeting.
* Ensure that music, arts and physical education curriculums are fully funded in BC’s public schools.
* Hold the line on court fees, to ensure that everyone has affordable access to our justice system.
* Establish regional transportation authorities that are accountable to local taxpayers and give local communities more control over their transportation needs and planning.
* Require taxpayer approval by regional referendums prior to authorization of any new type of TransLink tax or levy.
* Outlaw “offloading” of provincial government costs onto the backs of local property taxpayers.
* Restore open tendering on government contracts to allow fair competition for businesses and provide better value to taxpayers.
* Implement a flexible, innovative program to increase the supply of affordable housing.
Fast forward...........How many of those whoppers became fact?
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Hello Chris
The Numbers are in! 15% reached in all ridings!
Our week 10 press release is available on our website. Click on the following link to read Bill's Progress report. http://fighthst.com/press-release-fight-hst-petition-breaks-15-threshold-in-all-85-ridings/
We have also posted the current totals for every riding at the following link: http://fighthst.com/numbers/.
If you have problems with the links, just go to our www.fighthst.com website for the information.
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Hello Chris
The Numbers are in! 15% reached in all ridings!
Our week 10 press release is available on our website. Click on the following link to read Bill's Progress report. http://fighthst.com/press-release-fight-hst-petition-breaks-15-threshold-in-all-85-ridings/
We have also posted the current totals for every riding at the following link: http://fighthst.com/numbers/.
If you have problems with the links, just go to our www.fighthst.com website for the information.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/bravo1.gif)
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I got our Telus phone bill today, dated June 9, 2011 and as the bill ran from June 9 to July 8 and the charges included PST .26 , GST 1.84 and Yippee my first HST charge of 1.61. Looks like a double charge some how but maybe it is because I worked on the ant HST petition. ::) ;D
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Phoned Telus and as I thought the bill was pro rated so we pay the HST for the 8 days in July.
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Today we come not to bury Gordon Campbell, but to praise him. Somebody has to. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/derek-decloet/in-bcs-hst-debate-passion-trumps-common-sense/article1610126/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/derek-decloet/in-bcs-hst-debate-passion-trumps-common-sense/article1610126/)
Mr. Campbell has been British Columbia’s Premier for the past nine years. That in itself is an achievement, given the track record of those who’ve held the office. There was Glen Clark (resigned amid a criminal investigation, 1999), and before him Mike Harcourt (resigned amid a criminal investigation that involved his party, 1996), and before him Bill Vander Zalm (resigned because of a conflict-of-interest probe that led to criminal charges, 1991).Yet Mr. Campbell is now treated as the biggest scoundrel of them all.
His Liberal Party’s standing is as far underwater as BP’s leaky Macondo well and his personal popularity is roughly equal to that of Tony Hayward at a Louisiana shrimpers’ convention. Last week, one of his cabinet ministers resigned in protest and Mr. Vander Zalm, of all people, is now throwing mud in the Premier’s direction, calling him an “elected dictator.”
And for what?
Because Mr. Campbell dared to do the right thing. His government’s decision to scrap B.C.’s antiquated provincial sales tax in favour of one that’s harmonized with the federal sales tax may have turned the Premier into the pariah-of-the-moment. It’s also one of the best things he has done since taking office. The HST’s critics, an alliance of knee-jerk populists, political opportunists and the financially clueless, ought to go jump in the Georgia Strait. Better yet, they should take a basic economics course.
Rarely has a good idea been so misunderstood. Rarely have the correct intentions – to make B.C. a more competitive place, to make it cheaper to invest, to make jobs – been so twisted into something else by people who don’t know what they’re talking about. But it does require some explanation, so we’ll walk through it very slowly, for the benefit of Mr. Vander Zalm and Novabonker. ;D
Right now in B.C. the consumer is charged two taxes on most items: there’s a 5 per cent federal goods and services tax plus a provincial sales tax of 7 per cent. On July 1, that will change to a single, harmonized tax of 12 per cent. The rub, of course, is all sorts of items that are now exempt from the provincial tax will have the HST applied to them. The tax on a massage, for instance, will rise to 12 per cent from 5; same with a funeral or a haircut or a lawyer’s fee. (A similar process will take place in Ontario – except at a 13-per-cent rate – to replace the current five-plus-eight.)
This is why the HST gets a rap as just another effort by politicians to reach into the consumer’s pocket. In fact, it’s the current provincial sales tax, both in B.C. and Ontario, that qualifies as a grubby tax grab. Those taxes apply not just at the retail cash register, but to things that companies buy to run their businesses, including, in most cases, crucial equipment and supplies. The government taxes at every step. Ultimately, the consumer pays for it anyway. It’s just that all that tax is buried in the price of what you’re buying.
But the old PST does something else that’s even more harmful. It drives up the real cost of making an investment. The two-tax system is one of the major reasons why the effective tax rate on capital is much higher in B.C. and Ontario than it is in places like New Brunswick and Nova Scotia that have a single, harmonized tax. The result is less investment, which in the long run means fewer jobs. By bringing in the HST, Mr. Campbell and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty are chopping the cost of building a plant or a warehouse or a retail store in their provinces. Only good things can come from that. You will have a hard time finding a credible economist who disagrees with this point (TD’s Don Drummond, former Bank of Canada governor David Dodge and the University of Calgary’s Jack Mintz, one of the country’s leading experts on taxation, are three of the many economists who back the HST).
The trouble for Mr. Campbell is it is nearly impossible to prove the absence of something: how do you show that there are fewer businesses operating in B.C. – paying wages and employing people – because of the absurdities of the provincial sales tax? It’s too abstract. The government commissioned Mr. Mintz to do a study on the subject; he calculated the HST policy will be such a boon for investment that it will result in 113,000 new jobs in the province by 2020.
The anti-HST campaigners just toss this stuff aside, or ignore it. But if they really believe the HST will be so awful, perhaps they could at least brush up on their history. In the late 1980s, when the Mulroney government brought in the GST, its critics claimed it would do long-term damage to the economy. It probably did make the early 1990s recession a little bit worse. But within a few years, Canada was beginning a 17-year economic expansion and a historic boom in employment. Paul Martin was balancing the budget with the help of GST revenue, income taxes were cut and Ottawa began repaying debt.
How did that happen? Don’t expect the anti-HST camp to try to explain it. They’re too busy mouthing vague platitudes about democracy, as though Mr. Campbell seized power in a military coup, and whining about paying a couple of extra bucks at the barber shop.
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Still trying to put make up on the pig AF? All the lipstick in the world ain't gonna work. It's still a pig. Go to CKNW's audio vault on the 14th and listen to El Gordo claim it's revenue neutral. And listen to him try out this stuff to no success and get caught telling whoppers. Lies. Deceit.Fabrications.And Bill Good has always been the Liberals biggest supporter
You see AF, the problem is Gordo's lack of honesty. Nobody believes him any more. Simply put - he's outright lied and"fine printed" so many times, that he's used all his free passes. You can try and sell this all you want, but it's just not going to resonate with the public that the area with some of the lowest corporate taxes in Canada should subsidize business even more. But keep on trying, I really enjoy watching the straw grasp. ;D
http://blog.canadianbusiness.com/provinces-with-lowest-corporate-tax-rates/
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The Fraser Institute: http://www.fraserinstitute.org/aboutus/whoweare/funding.htm (http://www.fraserinstitute.org/aboutus/whoweare/funding.htm)
BC's Low and Middle-Income Families Will Pay Less Taxes Under the HST; Harmonization Will Have No Impact on BC's Tax Freedom Day
VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA--(Marketwire - June 21, 2010) - Most low and middle-income families in BC will see their total tax bill decrease under a harmonized sales tax (HST), according to new research by the Fraser Institute, Canada's leading public policy think tank.
The Institute also found that the HST, which combines the current provincial sales tax (PST) with the federal goods and services tax (GST) and is set for implementation on July 1, does not change the date of BC's Tax Freedom Day.
"Under the HST, BC's tax system becomes slightly more progressive, due to the reductions in provincial income taxes and the new HST credit. This means most families with lower incomes will end up paying less tax overall, while most families with high incomes will pay slightly more," said Niels Veldhuis, Fraser Institute senior economist and co-author of the report, The Impact of the HST on British Columbian Families.
"The leaders of the campaign to halt the HST are distorting and exaggerating the impact of the harmonized sales tax. The truth is, low income families will be better off under the HST."
Effect of the HST by Family Income
When the provincial government introduced its HST legislation, it also increased the basic personal income tax exemption to $11,000, which reduces the amount of tax individuals pay, and introduced an HST credit for low and modest income families.
As a result, even though low and mid-income families will pay slightly more in sales taxes, the increases are more than offset by income tax reductions and the HST credit, leaving most low and middle-income families in BC with a smaller total tax bill in 2011 under the HST than under the PST.
Overall, families with incomes between $20,000 and $40,000 in 2011 will see an average tax reduction of $411; families with incomes between $40,000 and $60,000 will see their total tax bill decrease by an average of $159; while families with income between $60,000 and $80,000 will see an average tax reduction of $34.
Families in upper income groups will see a slight increase in their total tax bill; an average increase of $65 for families with incomes between $80,000 and $100,000; an average increase of $117 for families with income between $100,000 and $120,000; and an average increase of $167 for families with income between $120,000 and $140,000. However, these increases are negligible given the total taxes paid by families in these income groups. For example, the $167 average increase in the total tax bill for families with income between $120,000 and $140,000 represents an increase of just 0.3 per cent.
Effect of the HST on BC's Tax Freedom Day
Each year, the Fraser Institute calculates Tax Freedom Day, a clear and easy-to-understand representation of the amount of tax the average family must pay to all levels of government. If British Columbians were required to pay all of their taxes up front, they would have to pay each and every dollar they earned to governments prior to Tax Freedom Day.
Using the Tax Freedom Day methodology, the Institute calculated when Tax Freedom Day would fall in 2011 for the average BC family under the current PST tax system and compared it to where it would fall under the HST tax system. In both instances, Tax Freedom Day falls on June 8.
"Under the HST, there is no change in Tax Freedom Day; a harmonized sales tax has basically no impact on the total tax bill paid by the average family," Veldhuis said.
The Institute's Tax Freedom Day calculations found that the average family will pay slightly more provincial sales tax under the HST than it would under the existing PST. Specifically, provincial sales taxes paid by the average family would be $249 higher under the HST in 2011, $3,382 in provincial HST compared to $3,133 in PST. At the same time, the personal income tax reductions brought in by the government reduces the average BC family's income taxes by $205 in 2011, from $11,245 to $11,040.
All told, the total tax bill for the average British Columbian family will increase by $44 from $37,562 under the PST, to $37,606 under the HST, a negligible amount representing only 0.12 per cent of the average family's total tax bill. In the context of Tax Freedom Day, it's the equivalent of working an extra 63 minutes a year for government under the HST.
"The claims of large tax increases and other distortions spread by opponents of the HST have no foundation in reality and are not backed up with reliable data or sound analysis," Veldhuis said.
"Quite simply, the HST is good for British Columbia. It will lower investment costs and spark more business investment and development. This will ultimately make BC workers more productive, increase their wages, and create more employment opportunities."
The Impact of the HST on British Columbian Families is the first of two analytical studies the Fraser Institute has conducted on the effects of BC's HST. The second study on the HST will be released later this month.
The Fraser Institute is an independent Canadian public policy research and educational organization with offices in Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal and ties to a global network of 75 think tanks. Its mission is to measure, study, and communicate the impact of competitive markets and government intervention on the welfare of individuals. To protect the Institute's independence, it does not accept grants from governments or contracts for research.
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Fraser-Institute-BCs-Low-Middle-Income-Families-Will-Pay-Less-Taxes-Under-HST-Harmonization-1278894.htm (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Fraser-Institute-BCs-Low-Middle-Income-Families-Will-Pay-Less-Taxes-Under-HST-Harmonization-1278894.htm)
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What the world has done to the tax & money system is so "CRAZY" plain & simple.
They have made so many rules that the whole system is unbalenced & FULL OF RED TAPE...
The entire world should go to a one world currency...& have a 10 % sales tax ...& any company that is the area pays a 10% tax.
The tax collected goes 50/50 to the Fed. & Prov. gov.(s) .
The net result is workers get a FULL PAY CHECK...& after paying their food & lodging WILL HAVE PLENTY left over to BUY THINGS !!!
When people are spending ALOT then it creates 2 things.
A) Lots of sales tax thus gov (s) get the tax they need to run things... Ya say how can a gov(s) run with only a 10% tax ????
DO NOT FORGET ...with the MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WITH MONEY IN THEIR POCKET WILL BE BUYING THINGS at the mall,dealerships
restaurants etc...thus the TAX will get like a winfall for the gov.
B) When people are buying it does one thing...CREATES JOBS ....Companies are hiring like crazy because people are spending (leave money in people's pockets & they will spend....over tax & the result is ressession.)
HST is MORE TAX. thus again it adds to the already problem.
The whole money system is crazy right now & all the rules red tape & over taxation are the cause. The complication has made the system BOGGED DOWN.
Simplify it & people will spend & jobs will be created.... the malls will be filled with buyers...restaurents filled...factories producing...jobs avaible...
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The Fraser Institute is just another well known supporter of the current admististraction in Victoria, everyone knows that they would put a positive light on the HST.
Stat's Canada I just heard a minute ago on Global TV says it will cost each household $500 per year, watch the papers for this, I am sure alwaysfishin will find it for us when it comes out in print. ;D ;D
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The Fraser Institute is just another well known supporter of the current admististraction in Victoria, everyone knows that they would put a positive light on the HST.
"The Fraser Institute is a registered non-profit organization. We depend entirely on donations from people who understand the importance of impartial research and who support greater choice, less government intervention, and more personal responsibility."
From what I've heard from Novabonker about the current administration.... ::) it doesn't sound like the Fraser Institute would be supporting them. Is it possible that they are not influenced by either the anti's or the pro's and actually know what they are talking about?? ???
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"The Fraser Institute is a registered non-profit organization. We depend entirely on donations from people who understand the importance of impartial research and who support greater choice, less government intervention, and more personal responsibility."
From what I've heard from Novabonker about the current administration.... ::) it doesn't sound like the Fraser Institute would be supporting them. Is it possible that they are not influenced by either the anti's or the pro's and actually know what they are talking about?? ???
Please find the Stat's Canada article for us, going to badminton. ;D ;D
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Please find the Stat's Canada article for us, going to badminton. ;D ;D
I couldn't find the Stat's Can analysis only a commentary from the Victoria Times Colonist who apparently commissioned a study??
Of course we all know how impartial the Victoria Times columnist is! ;D :D ;D ;D
I'll keep looking for the Stat's Canada analysis though.... I don't have badminton to go to... ;D
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I couldn't find the Stat's Can analysis only a commentary from the Victoria Times Colonist who apparently commissioned a study??
Of course we all know how impartial the Victoria Times columnist is! ;D :D ;D ;D
I'll keep looking for the Stat's Canada analysis though.... I don't have badminton to go to... ;D
just got back from badminton and here is the article. ;D
VICTORIA — The average B.C. household could take a hit of $521 to its bottom line next year as a result of the harmonized sales tax, according to a model prepared for the Victoria Times Colonist by Statistics Canada.
The change could range anywhere from $78 for households with single parents and one child to $801 for a married couple with no children, the figures show.
"There are certainly individuals and households that will feel the impact of this tax," said Dr. Herbert Schuetze, economics professor at the University of Victoria. "For example if you are unattached and 65 years or older we're talking about $262 a year. That's a considerable amount of money for some people."
At the request of the Victoria Times Colonist, Statistics Canada analyzed 15 different household types and 15 different income classifications using its social policy simulation database and model.
The model is used by the federal government and other organizations to analyze financial interactions between government and individuals.
For the HST analysis, it synthesized four databases — the Survey of Household Spending, Survey of Labour and Income Dynamics, EI claimant history and personal income tax returns — to establish a synthetic sample of B.C. households. The weighted total of households in the sample was 1.935 million.
Statistics Canada determined what that synthetic sample spent on various items, its household income and characteristics and then followed the rules of the income tax system and applied all of the rebates, tax credits and rules surrounding the HST and GST to the sample to determine the impact of the tax.
The figures suggest the more money households bring in, the more they will pay out.
For example, a household with an annual income of $40,000 to $50,000 will pay $253 more because of the HST, while households in the $80,000 to $90,000 range will pay $1,128 more annually.
"It looks like families get hit pretty hard," Schuetze said.
Statistics Canada model incorporated a number of initiatives designed to offset the effects of the tax.
Those include a B.C. HST credit of up to $230 annually to low-income households, an increase to the personal tax credit, a rebate for home energy and point-of-sale rebates for a number of other items.
Yet each of the 30 household types for which Statistics Canada provided figures shows some negative impact as a result of the HST.
That does not jibe with material in the March provincial budget, although the parameters for the government's analysis were not the same as those used by Statistics Canada.
The budget documents showed a family of four with $30,000 of income coming out ahead $535 annually, while a family of four with an income of $60,000 would spend an extra $107 a year and a family of four with an income of $90,000 would spend $178.
According to the province, single individuals with an income of $80,000 faced a $314 increase in spending, while single people with $25,000 incomes would end up $2 ahead and a senior couple with an income of $30,000 up $1 annually.
The model Statistics Canada used for the Victoria Times Colonist analysis did not take into account the effect of the HST on housing, which is significant.
Previously new homes were exempt from provincial sales tax. Starting July 1, they will be subject to the HST, although purchasers will be eligible for a rebate on the provincial portion of the tax up to a maximum of $26,250.
The model also assumed all costs to business as well as savings a business might realize as a result of the HST would be passed on to consumers.
But perhaps the largest unknown is behavioural change caused by the new tax.
Schuetze said that is a significant caveat.
"It may be an overestimation of the impact in part because there's no change in consumption assumed here," he said. The Statistics Canada model assumed households would spend as much as they did pre-HST, something that is unlikely to happen.
Indeed dozens of Victoria residents for this series said they would be cutting back on unnecessary expenditures after July 1.
"I may have to make some cutbacks like eating out and I will have to think more before I spend," said Jeff McKay, a 33-year-old executive with Oak Bay Marine Group.
"I will have to be more careful," said Caitlin Flanders, 24, who works for the Queen's Printer. "Going out for coffee or lunches, which I don't do that much anyway, I won't do as often because of that tax."
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HST is not going over too well with the native Indians (aboriginals) in N. Ontario....latest news is they blocked a railway track protesting it !!!
If this HST taxed items/serices as what the tax is now there would be NO OUT-CRY but when people PAY MORE TAX yearly from their personal pocket ...then it is a no brainer. WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT. GORDO'S HEAD ON A PLATTER ON THIS ISSUE......politically speaking of course. Read Chris's post at the bottom of page 26....He brings out great facts. Over $500 extra tax...& for some I've heard even as much as $2000 extra tax !!!!
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Hilarious AF!!! The Fraser Institute doesn't support Campbell inc.- now I don't care who you are -that's funny!. You must be part ostrich to have your head that far in the sand ( or elsewhere ;)) But of course they support staying at the lowest minimum wage, repeating the bullspit about "These are all just kids living at home" that Scumball trots out when that sore subject is brought up. Of course the best part is paying "training wages" of 6 bucks an hour-AND you can call someone in for 2 hours work - FOR A WHOLE 12 BUCKS!!!. Now if you have to travel by bus over 2 zones, there goes half of that kings ransom The Fraser Institute is a lesion on society and any thinking human realizes they're irrelevant, right wing whack jobs.
I listened to a Stepford wife, um, Fraser Institute flapjack on NW yesterday. The man made an utter my friend of himself.I also note he didn't stick around to take more than on call because his "points" didn't line up with the facts.
Thank you AF- I haven't laughed that hard in years!
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City is willing to soften HST blow
http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/news/City+willing+soften+blow/3170554/story.html
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--again good things turned bad... a training wage could be good... if the person was actually being paid even token amount and receiving valuable training that would transition to a decent job. It was not supposed to be the minimum acceptable standard for a wage and an abusive way around labour laws.
--As a former fishing store owner... I liked the min wage.. because we always paid higher we got quality people. The only people in the store that got min or less wage was myself and my partner some months but we made a living and eventually benefitted from the hard work of our staff and ourselves.
--I'm sure the Centre for Policy Alternatives.... the counter balance to the Frazer Institute would have some views on the issue.
--Myself: I enjoy the articles and information put out from the Frazer Institute as most often I find anything they like is usually.. (I'll give them not always) not good for me.
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Hello Chris
We have a new Press Release about the Fraser Institute Report available to be viewed on our website: http://fighthst.com/press-release-fraser-institute-hst-report-filled-with-holes-and-half-truths/. If the link fails, please copy the entire underlined link and paste it into your web browser to view the report.
Webmaster
www.fighthst.com
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Hello Chris
We have a new Press Release about the Fraser Institute Report available to be viewed on our website: http://fighthst.com/press-release-fraser-institute-hst-report-filled-with-holes-and-half-truths/. If the link fails, please copy the entire underlined link and paste it into your web browser to view the report.
Webmaster
www.fighthst.com
Now I'm starting to understand why Vanderzalm is such a good gardener..
he knows how to spread out a lot of B.S. ;D ;D ;D
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HST will cut into shifts and tips
More tax and less income means fundamental life changes for many
By Andrew A. Duffy, Times Colonist June 23, 2010 Lacey Geary was prepared to have her social life and entertainment budget take a bit of a hit when the harmonized sales tax comes into effect, but the 22-year-old server is starting to realize she'll be affected by the tax on the other side of the ledger, too.
Like thousands of servers, bartenders and restaurateurs, she faces the prospect of lower tips and fewer shifts as the HST comes into effect July 1.
The tax, which combines the five-per-cent goods and services tax with the seven-percent provincial sales tax, could mean fewer people eating out less often, according to restaurant industry experts.
"I get hit on both sides, and that's going to be tough," said Geary, who recently started work at Brown's Social House after a couple of years bartending and serving at Barkley's.
The B.C. Restaurant and Foodservices Association has estimated restaurants could lose as much as $750 million a year in B.C. because of the new tax.
Previously meals at restaurants were not subject to the PST.
"Serving is a tough job to get through in the first place as you are relying on people's generosity," she said. Extra tax on a bill is likely to have an impact on tips left behind.
Geary, who makes about $22,000 a year, said lower tips will be especially hard on servers who work at restaurants where food bills tend to be lower.
"If servers see customers starting to become a little more stingy, they are going to have to go elsewhere to find work or try and work at high-end restaurants where they charge more for food," she said.
According to figures provided to the Times Colonist by Statistics Canada, someone like Geary could expect to spend between an extra $99 and $173 each year because of the new tax.
Geary said the double whammy -- more tax and potentially less income-- could mean a fundamental change in her life.
"I'm going to have to watch my spending closely, cut back on going out for dinner, drinks and coffee for a start," she said.
Our HST special series continues daily in Money
That's a common reaction. Jeff McKay, 30, an executive with the Oak Bay Marine Group, said he will also watch where his money goes and cut back, and not just because of extra costs.
According to the Statistics Canada numbers, McKay faces spending between $332 and $359 extra each year under the HST.
"Hopefully, my job is not affected. That is an area of concern while working in the tourism industry as lots of positions in the industry have just folded," he said.
The Council of Tour ism Associations has estimated the tax could cost the industry as many as 5,174 jobs and see visitor spending drop by as much as $545 million annually.
McKay's spending will drop as well.
He eats out several times a week -- lunch on work days, dinner three to five nights a week and breakfast on the weekends -- and spends about $30 a week on laundry and dry-cleaning.
Costs will also rise for his gym membership, haircuts, boat moorage and airline flights.
"I realize the need for taxation in the province but this is ill-timed with the downturn in the economy," he said.
Caitlin Flanders, 24, is saving as much as she can this month before the HST comes into effect and stocking up on items such as over-the-counter drugs and vitamins, which will be subject to HST after July 1.
Flanders said despite the fact she makes a good wage, she will have to start watching her spending more closely. Statistics Canada figures show the impact on her bottom line could be between $173 and $253 each year.
"It means I will be able to go out less, fewer dinners out, coffees and things like that -- maybe it will save me money," she said. "But until recently, I didn't realize taking a cab or parking would go up and that will affect what I will do."
She also is heading back to school this year and she will be forced to live on a much tighter budget.
"This can't be good, we live in the most expensive province already and it's getting harder and harder to live here. I think it will cost me $500 to $600 a year easily."
aduffy@tc.canwest.com
Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/will+into+shifts+tips/3189252/story.html#ixzz0rkbsymEo
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Hundreds of millions lost, thousand of jobs gone
Restaurant, tourism sectors bracing for worst
By Andrew A. Duffy, Times Colonist June 23, 2010 With a week to go before the 12-per-cent harmonized sales tax kicks in, two industries that stand to be most affected are resigned to having to get through it.
B.C.'s restaurant and tourism sectors predict hundreds of millions in lost revenue, thousands of jobs gone and businesses left teetering on the brink.
"We're especially concerned over the impact on attractions, restaurants and tour business," said Rob Gialloreto, Tourism Victoria's CEO.
"Any time you start to damage parts of your tourism industry, there's a wider impact because it's such an interwoven economy."
The song is much the same in the restaurant industry. Ian Tostenson, CEO of the B.C. Restaurant and Foodservices Association, said his members are very cautious this summer.
"It will be very tough and it has been tough already," he said. "Vancouver got a nice bump with the Olympics but since then it has not been strong. We are all concerned."
Judging by the studies conducted by both sectors, they have good reason to be.
A study done last year shows B.C. restaurants, which have been largely exempt from the PST, face losing as much as $750 million annually solely due to the HST.
Don Monsour, the restaurant association's Victoriabased chairman, said the industry dropped seven per cent when the seven-percent GST was introduced in 1991 and has never truly recovered.
Monsour said he expects the same will hold true with the 12-per-cent HST.
The Council of Tourism Industries, the liaison with government for the tourism industry, released a study last fall showing the HST would cost the industry as many
as 5,174 jobs and see visitor spending drop by as much as $545 million annually.
That study also said the tax would result in an average 4.66-per-cent increase in the price of tourism products and services and result in the provincial government losing out on as much as $64.3 million in annual revenue from the industry.
"One of our biggest concerns is that we are perceived as a more expensive destination at a time when we are very much in the early recovery stages of a global recession, and one of our most important markets, the U.S., is far from recovered," Gialloreto said.
Both industries have lobbied the government for months, hoping for mitigating measures to offset the impact of the tax. So far, this effort has been to no avail.
"We want to keep talking," said Gialloreto, noting ideas like bringing back the GSTrebate program in some form or breaks for larger attractions have been bandied about.
"The calendar aside, we need to keep talking and I think there is some room."
Tostenson agreed, noting they are awaiting a new round of discussions with the province.
"The discussion will be outside the realm of the HST but we are looking at everything else we can to offset costs for restaurants," he said.
aduffy@tc.canwest.com
Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/life/Hundreds+millions+lost+thousand+jobs+gone/3189253/story.html#ixzz0rkcoNBkR
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Of all the unmitigated gall, now a group of business hacks are doing their level best to derail democracy. I will research which groups and specifiably which business areas I can and will boycott and encourage others to do the same. This is beyond repugnant when business threatens the will of a democratic society, following an enacted law. If this isn't an affront to every citizen of this province, then I'm Frank Sinatra. The insinuation by some buttwad stuffed suit that the citizens are a group ignoramus half wits is disgusting and sure doesn't endear anyone to his cause.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-business-groups-seek-to-have-anti-hst-bid-rejected/article1623229/
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Of all the unmitigated gall, now a group of business hacks are doing their level best to derail democracy. I will research which groups and specifiably which business areas I can and will boycott and encourage others to do the same. This is beyond repugnant when business threatens the will of a democratic society, following an enacted law. If this isn't an affront to every citizen of this province, then I'm Frank Sinatra. The insinuation by some buttwad stuffed suit that the citizens are a group ignoramus half wits is disgusting and sure doesn't endear anyone to his cause.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-business-groups-seek-to-have-anti-hst-bid-rejected/article1623229/
Best comment ever (from the above link):
"6/29/2010 6:12:48 PM
On the whole I am pretty agnostic about the merits of the HST - there are some pros and some cons which, net-net, will probably have a marginal impact on the average British Columbian. I do understand the furor about how the HST was brought about, but basing an anti-HST campaign on the process and not the substance of the tax is myopic and misleading.
For weeks Vander Zalm and his crew have led a campaign of misinformation in order to dupe naive British Columbians into signing the anti-HST petition. I would venture to say that the vast majority of these petitioners have not even read the draft legislation that the anti-HST petition would, if successful, introduce to the legislature. That legislation compels the B.C. legislature to "extinguish the HST." The HST is a creature of federal legislation, ergo the B.C. legislature is completely impotent as regards its repeal! Extinguishing the HST would need to occur through a federal process initiated at the federal level. What Vander Zalm's draft bill purports to do is unconstitutional and, therefore, useless.
I'm sure the kneejerk reaction to my comment is that I am overlooking the point here -- that thousands of BC residents are upset and that this movement is about direct democracy. Fair enough. But why not direct democracy through the proper means? Through the proper constitutional channels? Why not an initiative petition campaign based on draft legislation with which the BC legislature could actually do something?
For these reasons, I am FOR the judicial review, because I think it will provide clarity on whether it is worth going through the motions of the rest of the initiative process (which could, for your information, include a $30 million provincial referendum on a draft bill that could end up being constitutional garbage). If British Columbians are mad at this judicial review, I shudder to think of how they would react to $30 million wasted on what amounts to an unconstitutional ego-stroke for BVZ."
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If it's unconstitutional then it shouldn't be stopped? Wouldn't our whole justice system start becoming a joke if we allowed exceptions to the constitution?
I think even those that are in favor of the HST appreciate that the restaurant industry will suffer until the consumer gets used to paying the extra 7%. However I'd like to remind you that when the GST was introduced in the early 1990's that the GST rate was 7%, exactly what the extra cost of a restaurant meal will be after July 1. For a while the restaurant industry hurt, however it seems to have recovered quite nicely. Me thinks the news of it's demise after July 1 is premature and exaggerated! ::)
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The people's will is unconstitutional? Gordo said he wouldn't stop the process , but his whiny henchmen will try. What a pathetic straw grasp. Where in our constitution does it say business interests trump a citizen's legal initiative? And yet the lesser lights are complaining about the price tag of democracy should the initiative go to referendum - TO REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE ELECTORATE. Hilarious ;D ;D ;D
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The people's will is unconstitutional? Gordo said he wouldn't stop the process , but his whiny henchmen will try. What a pathetic straw grasp. Where in our constitution does it say business interests trump a citizen's legal initiative? And yet the lesser lights are complaining about the price tag of democracy should the initiative go to referendum - TO REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE ELECTORATE. Hilarious ;D ;D ;D
Wow this is basc stuff Novabonker.... ??? I thought you of all people would know this. Type in "Canadian Constitution" in google and that should get you a whole wealth of info.
Here's a starter..... http://www.shannonthunderbird.com/canadian_constitution.htm (http://www.shannonthunderbird.com/canadian_constitution.htm)
The people's will is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to constitutional issues! A "legal initiative" is just a meaningless piece of paper with writing on it if it doesn't fall within the parameters of the constitution which clearly defines levels of government and what their responsibilities are. The anti-HST legislation that is being proposed is asking the Provincial government to disband some Federal legislation.
I haven't studied the constitution much, but I'm guessing that's probably unconstitutional. If the Provincial government went ahead and tried to disband a Federal law I'm suspecting the Feds might have something to say about that. :o
It's too bad Vanderzalm didn't do a little more homework before he started his self-promotion tour....
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For those of us so inclined to boycott, here's a list of business's that support the HST from the COC website. While it may indeed be hard, it is possible to put enough pressure on them to see the error of their ways. Since it appears that the biggest concern is about money, show them the power of the pocketbook.
http://www.bcchamber.org/directory/corporate.html
Oh - AF- (http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t82/Willy1956/60078965545d499a01ce95.gif) ;D ;D ;D
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For those of us so inclined to boycott, here's a list of business's that support the HST from the COC website. While it may indeed be hard, it is possible to put enough pressure on them to see the error of their ways. Since it appears that the biggest concern is about money, show them the power of the pocketbook.
http://www.bcchamber.org/directory/corporate.html
How many people in BC do those businesses employ? With the potential cost savings to their operations resulting from the HST, how many more people in BC could they employ? If you boycott all of those businesses, how many British Columbians will lose their jobs as a result? Just thought I'd ask.
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How many people in BC do those businesses employ? With the potential cost savings to their operations resulting from the HST, how many more people in BC could they employ? If you boycott all of those businesses, how many British Columbians will lose their jobs as a result? Just thought I'd ask.
I don't think you have to worry too much that anyone other than Novabonker will be doing any boycotting..... ;D
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There's other business waiting in the wings to take my dimes. More of a transfer of business, like the transfer of taxation that's been foisted on the electorate. However, should the business make a point of not supporting the COC stance publicly and loudly, I would reconsider. Other than that, my money goes elsewhere. I'm not saying it will be at all effective or am I suggesting anyone else do it, but it's just my own way of registering my voice, as I will be informing the companies why.
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Drum roll please-
The fine folks that want a review of the HST legislation seem to be attached at the wallet to Campbell Inc.
WHAT A SHOCKER!!!:
John Allan, President & CEO, Council of Forest Industries ($25,215)
Pierre Gratton, President & CEO, Mining Association of BC ($13,180)
Philip Hochstein, President, Independent Contractors & Businesses Assoc. ($60,160)
Wayne Hoskins, President, Western Convenience Stores Association ($500 worth of penny candy)
Rick Jeffery, President & CEO, Coast Forest Products Association ($62,300, combined)
John Winter, President & CEO, BC Chamber of Commerce $0.00
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Drum roll please-
The fine folks that want a review of the HST legislation seem to be attached at the wallet to Campbell Inc.
WHAT A SHOCKER!!!:
John Allan, President & CEO, Council of Forest Industries ($25,215)
Pierre Gratton, President & CEO, Mining Association of BC ($13,180)
Philip Hochstein, President, Independent Contractors & Businesses Assoc. ($60,160)
Wayne Hoskins, President, Western Convenience Stores Association ($500 worth of penny candy)
Rick Jeffery, President & CEO, Coast Forest Products Association ($62,300, combined)
John Winter, President & CEO, BC Chamber of Commerce $0.00
Yep.
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Drum roll please-
The fine folks that want a review of the HST legislation seem to be attached at the wallet to Campbell Inc.
WHAT A SHOCKER!!!:
John Allan, President & CEO, Council of Forest Industries ($25,215)
Pierre Gratton, President & CEO, Mining Association of BC ($13,180)
Philip Hochstein, President, Independent Contractors & Businesses Assoc. ($60,160)
Wayne Hoskins, President, Western Convenience Stores Association ($500 worth of penny candy)
Rick Jeffery, President & CEO, Coast Forest Products Association ($62,300, combined)
John Winter, President & CEO, BC Chamber of Commerce $0.00
This argument is old.... Of course everybody is going to support their favorite team (ask Chris about his... ;D)
Did you expect business to be sending support dollars to the anti-business, pro-union NDP??
I believe the Liberals have been waivering on their HST resolve and Business doesn't want them backing out.
HST is good for business and what is good for business is also good for creating jobs! That's why Business is challenging this.
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This argument is old.... Of course everybody is going to support their favorite team (ask Chris about his... ;D)
Did you expect business to be sending support dollars to the anti-business, pro-union NDP??
I believe the Liberals have been waivering on their HST resolve and Business doesn't want them backing out.
HST is good for business and what is good for business is also good for creating jobs! That's why Business is challenging this.
I have picked a winner this time, I mean a loser a the Lib's are now finished, the middle class has spoken, arrogance, secrecy, scandals, deceit, attack on the environment and poor money managers they have been. I am working on a letter to the editor of the Vancouver Province relating why I feel Campbell was wrong in his column of the other day. It may not get published there but it will here. ;D
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It may not get published there but it will here. ;D
I always enjoy some entertaining reading Chris! ;D
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I always enjoy some entertaining reading Chris! ;D
Very good, read The Journal.
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This argument is old.... Of course everybody is going to support their favorite team (ask Chris about his... ;D)
Did you expect business to be sending support dollars to the anti-business, pro-union NDP??
I believe the Liberals have been waivering on their HST resolve and Business doesn't want them backing out.
HST is good for business and what is good for business is also good for creating jobs! That's why Business is challenging this.
So you're admitting Campbell Inc. is for sale to the highest bidder? That's a sad commentary on our elected officials, but hardly a surprise, given the fire sale our assets are being flogged off at to their "cheerleaders". Wavering and showing large cracks in the foundation.Do you feel this is the correct thing to do MORALLY AF? Should GOOD government wear a "For Sale" sign and go to friends and insiders? Do you not find it repugnant that money going into their party coffers is buying government favours and currys their decisions? You may not, but the average citizen is becoming repulsed by this.
http://www2.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/columnists/story.html?id=777f94c3-4021-480b-9365-164272d9e02b
Read this (I like this snippet)
Just So You Know: Here's a small snapshot of the Liberals' next big problem. Oak Bay Marine Group's Bob Wright, whose firm has donated several thousand dollars to the Liberals, met a few weeks ago with Liberal MLA Ida Chong, whom he has supported over the years. In the bluntest terms, he broke with her and the government over the HST. He said he was not only not going to support Chong, he was going to actively help defeat her.
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Where have you been? Private parties, companies and organizations have always provided financial support to whichever party represents their interests. All levels of government do this, from the Feds right down to your local, municipal government. You may find it 'repugnant', but to be surprised by this is, well... surprising. If you find the practice so repugnant, I hope your going to show the same indignation when you find out that whatever party you support also accepts these donations.
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I'm not shocked, just retching with disgust. I retched with some of the antics of the previous party too. Campbell is up to his neck in a blend of arrogance and corruption, but the tide is rising, soon to cover him completely. It's way past time that government represented the electorate and not "friends, bag men, and insiders".
Read the too soon retired Harvey Oberfeld's take on the GST:
http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/
Or Bill Tielman refuteing to Campbell's lies and spin: (slight left curve- slow down)
http://billtieleman.blogspot.com/
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I always enjoy some entertaining reading Chris! ;D
Here you go. ;D
Letter to the editor re The Province June 30, 2110. Final word on the
> Harmonized Sales Tax
>
> I find Premier Campbell's remarks on the HST interesting. One point I
> focused on was how he states that they have cut back on taxes since
> being elected, 37 percent since 2001 the Premier says in the article.
> This is true but when we see the financial mess we are in now how wise a
> move was that? We now have had a ballooning deficit the last few years
> with the news now filled how our education, and health care services
> that we so treasure in British Columbia continue to suffer. Many other
> ministry including the Ministry of the Environment has been slashed to
> the bare bones. The Liberal party always boasts about these tax
> reductions but it leads one to ask was it more about using this
> statement time and time again just to get elected 2 more times then good
> fiscal management? The proof now seems to appear in the pudding as
> because of the financial mess we are in the Liberals, in a desperate
> move have had to bring in the HST to try to prevent our deficit from
> growing even more.
> Then we had the Olympics that I have to admit I enjoyed but I believe
> our tax base in British Columbia is too small to be able the afford the
> tax dollars that had to be spent to put this on. More now money added to
> our deficit. Where do we get it from well the HST now appears to be one
> of them while core services continue to face financial hardships.
>
> Also the fish farm issue has been handled so badly, they ignore the
> evidence provided by Dr Alexandra Morton and others, just another
> example of how they really do not seem to care about the environment and
> our wild salmon that are a cornerstone our British Columbia. The same
> wild salmon that have helped build our province with these salmon
> substantiating our First Nation people for thousands of years.
>
> I personally worked as a volunteer on a Valley Liberal Riding
> Association for eight years, since 2001 when the Liberals were first
> elected. I was honored and pleased at first to be asked to serve in that
> capacity and attended the liberals convention in Whistler where I was
> recognized as volunteer of the year in my riding. I also attended a
> president council one time and several other Liberal functions. I
> thought I could make a difference and contribute to our great province
> of British Columbia where our family has resided and raised our families
> for 6 generations with my great grandparents, grandparents and parents
> who were builders of BC, the best place in earth. Actually with my MLA
> we did a few things for the betterment of our area, I held him as a
> friend for many years even before he was elected in 2001, he worked hard
> for us in Chilliwack.
>
> I know being government MLA or a cabinet minister is not easy and some
> time hard decisions have to be faced but over the years I saw this once
> fresh government change and lose touch with the people, the people that
> put them in power to represent them. Transparency on so many issues
> disappeared. Many other ways of being good government slipped away also,
> we are all familiar with them. Two years ago I was so disillusioned and
> left the party and did not renew my Liberal membership. I am glad I did
> as the way the HST would have been the final nail for me as it now will
> be for this once great party in less than 3 years time from now.
>
> Where do I go from here, back to my family roots of the NDP where my
> mother's cousin son Grant Notley was the NDP leader in Alberta before
> he was killed in the 1980's in a plane crash or will it be another party
> that will surface in the years ahead.
>
> All I ask is please donot do what the Liberals have done, lose the trust
> of many of us, over 700,000 who have signed the anti HST petition . Bill
> Vanderzalm made mistakes as well when he was in Campbell's shoes as
> Premier but he has not made one this time in leading the campaign to
> abolish the HST. FANTASTIC work Bill.
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Good article Chris.
I actually agree with some of it! ;D
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--Interesting article and I am in a similar quandary. I do not see a current party that I could whole hearted support.
--I have never been a fan of blind faith affiliation with any one party.
--I still naively believe that a good meaning person from any party could be a good representative. The dictatorships which always seem to follow after a few years have to stop. Our flyfishing club only allows the president to sit for two consecutive terms then they are out. We always seem to find qualified people to take their place. There has to be more "free votes" allowed thus allowing the MLA's to actually represent and pay more attention to their constituents. I don't want my MLA coming to me off the record saying they don't agree with the legislation and there are better alternatives but in public they have to support and in Parliament they vote the party line.
--With more concensus based legislation... that is free vote.. I would expect each MLA to become more accountable. They would not have the excuse that they have no choice but to vote for proposed legislation. Heck they might even try to add some constructive criticism or heaven forbid even make a good suggestion for a reasonable and compatible change. The official opposition would also have to take some ownership to consensus legislation as if the party in power expects some of their new drunk with power MLA's that are allowed a free vote may vote against the legislation then they would have to court some opposition members who believe the legislation is a good idea.
--The MLA still has to make tough decisions and balance between party ideals and those of their constituents and the greater good of the province, Canada and indeed the globe. Obviously if they loose the confidence of the party they could loose the party suppport.
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--I still naively believe that a good meaning person from any party could be a good representative. The dictatorships which always seem to follow after a few years have to stop. ...... There has to be more "free votes" allowed thus allowing the MLA's to actually represent and pay more attention to their constituents. I don't want my MLA coming to me off the record saying they don't agree with the legislation and there are better alternatives but in public they have to support and in Parliament they vote the party line.
--With more concensus based legislation... that is free vote.. I would expect each MLA to become more accountable. They would not have the excuse that they have no choice but to vote for proposed legislation. Heck they might even try to add some constructive criticism or heaven forbid even make a good suggestion for a reasonable and compatible change. The official opposition would also have to take some ownership to consensus legislation as if the party in power expects some of their new drunk with power MLA's that are allowed a free vote may vote against the legislation then they would have to court some opposition members who believe the legislation is a good idea.
--The MLA still has to make tough decisions and balance between party ideals and those of their constituents and the greater good of the province, Canada and indeed the globe. Obviously if they loose the confidence of the party they could loose the party suppport.
I wholeheartedly agree with the free vote concept. That was my point when the STV was proposed in the last election. I believe STV would have provided a better opportunity for MLA's to represent their ridings wishes rather than voting what the leader said they have to vote.
Unfortunately Chris and most of BC voted along the major party lines, which was against STV.... ???
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I wholeheartedly agree with the free vote concept. That was my point when the STV was proposed in the last election. I believe STV would have provided a better opportunity for MLA's to represent their ridings wishes rather than voting what the leader said they have to vote.
Unfortunately Chris and most of BC voted along the major party lines, which was against STV.... ???
Yes I did and starting to believe I voted wrongly. Just think, AF, Skaha, Rodney and I could have got elected. ;D ;D ;D
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Yes I did and starting to believe I voted wrongly.
I'm concerned that in 6 months you are going to be saying something similar only this time you'll be talking about the HST! ;D
As far as getting elected, with my stance on the HST and if you believe the polls, I don't have a chance of getting elected. :'(
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This argument is old.... Of course everybody is going to support their favorite team (ask Chris about his... ;D)
Did you expect business to be sending support dollars to the anti-business, pro-union NDP??
I believe the Liberals have been waivering on their HST resolve and Business doesn't want them backing out.
HST is good for business and what is good for business is also good for creating jobs! That's why Business is challenging this.
Holysmokes stop the presses ! Taxation creates jobs. We have solved the worlds financial crisis. Just think of all the jobs we
can create by adding new taxes.
Also I wanted to say that I'm so happy that my building costs have decreased due to the HST. But I'm greedy and
going to keep those savings for myself you know pay for a fishing trip or something. ;) ;D ;D ;D
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This is why they brought on the HST
Worst Fudge-it Budget Proven, but Free Ride from Media
On Thursday we learned Campbell's Liberals ran for election on an impossible budget promise that inflated tax revenues by $2.1 billion. Why is media selling this as good news?
By Will McMartin
http://goto.thetyee.ca/t?ctl=166AC1E:01C07E6214D807F9797436BE32ED3FAF8F7D795DAFB9E650&
Monday, July 12, 2010
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This is why they brought on the HST
Worst Fudge-it Budget Proven, but Free Ride from Media
On Thursday we learned Campbell's Liberals ran for election on an impossible budget promise that inflated tax revenues by $2.1 billion. Why is media selling this as good news?
By Will McMartin
http://goto.thetyee.ca/t?ctl=166AC1E:01C07E6214D807F9797436BE32ED3FAF8F7D795DAFB9E650&
Monday, July 12, 2010
You gotta stop reading that left wing rag! They are amazing at turning a positive into a negative!
If the government inflated revenues by $2.1 billion, wouldn't their shortfall (deficit) be higher than they projected? It was actually almost $1 billion less than projected.
If I told you at the beginning of the year that I was going to make $100,000 this year and I was going to spend $105,000, then at the end of the year I should have a shortfall of $5000. If at the end of the year I provided an accounting that showed you that my deficit shortfall was only $2000, you would probably say good for you, nice work!
However along comes the Tyee and reports that I said I was going to make $100,000 but that I over estimated my income and only made $80,000 for the last year. They say I mislead everyone because my actual income was less than my projected income! Why didn't they rather focus on the fact my deficit is smaller than I projected in spite of the fact my revenue was $20,000 less than I had projected? ???
The reason is that they are a left wing rag that reports what the NDP asks them to report as opposed to giving the public an objective report!
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Simple less sales = less COS. Nothing to be happy about. ;D
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AF
I have been away for 9 days, no papers, TV or radio. ;D How is the count going, most be well along after close to a month of counting, no news must be good news for us. ;D ;D
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AF
I have been away for 9 days, no papers, TV or radio. ;D How is the count going, most be well along after close to a month of counting, no news must be good news for us. ;D ;D
Wow Chris, you have a great memory...... Seems like everyone else in BC has forgotten all about the petition and is happily filling the governments purse by going to restaurants, then the gym, paying their utility and cable bills and not even missing the few extra pennies of HST that it cost them.... I haven't heard from the Zalm either, maybe he's fallen into a bit of dementia as well.... ;D ;D ;D
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I have now heard they have counted those with the least percentage of signatures so nothing yet so it looks like we have won round 1. ;D ;D Anyway the Liberals are done regardless, some will not care with their pensions they will get.
I have cut down on eating out, fewer coffees and have been a beak as if the service is poor no tips, which has happened 3 times out of 5 trips to the restaurant since July 1.
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Bravo to all involved. Next is getting ready to crank it up a few notches come November!
http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1264051
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Former B.C. premier Bill Vander Zalm and 700,000 other British Columbians have won a battle against HST, but not the war.
Elections B.C. told Vander Zalm just before 6 p.m. Wednesday that it had verified the 700,000 anti-HST signatures, meaning the petition had the support of 10 per cent of registered voters in all 85 ridings needed to trigger an HST-repeal bill in the B.C. Legislature.
However, the Chief Electoral Officer told Vander Zalm that he would not act on the repeal until the action has made its way through the courts. An angry Vander Zalm said that could take up to three years.
http://www.theprovince.com/health/Decision+repeal+petition+come+today/3385821/story.html (http://www.theprovince.com/health/Decision+repeal+petition+come+today/3385821/story.html)
3 years?!? You mean we have to sit here on the edge of our seats (or on pins and needles) for 3 years before we find out the Zalm got everyone all riled up for nothing? This isn't going to do anything for his political career......
I'd be angry too!! ;D ;D ;D
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Ironically enough, close to the same amount of time the Liberals have left in office....sad, a very sad day indeed >:(
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't Zalm that got everyone annoyed, when you do something ignorant enough to get Zalm and Carole James in bed together you're pretty hard to defend.
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I'm pretty sure it wasn't Zalm that got everyone annoyed, when you do something ignorant enough to get Zalm and Carole James in bed together you're pretty hard to defend.
The Zalm and James are not in bed together because they love each other...... ;D
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The sewage continues to get deeper. And deeper.......
http://www.cknw.com/Other/FOI6_PGS_32_42.pdf
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The sewage continues to get deeper. And deeper.......
http://www.cknw.com/Other/FOI6_PGS_32_42.pdf
No matter which way you lean, you have to admire the Liberals on this one.... They knew that introducing the HST was political suicide, yet unlike any politicians I've ever seen before they went ahead and implemented the HST because they know that in the long term this tax makes more sense than the PST. This should be the reason we elect governments. We should expect them to make the right decisions, not the popular decisions that are designed just to get votes!
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No matter which way you lean, you have to admire the Liberals on this one.... They knew that introducing the HST was political suicide, yet unlike any politicians I've ever seen before they went ahead and implemented the HST because they know that in the long term this tax makes more sense than the PST. This should be the reason we elect governments. We should expect them to make the right decisions, not the popular decisions that are designed just to get votes!
In case you did not read my letter to the editor here it is again, the true reason they brought in the HST.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/opinion/letters/100535809.html
As a footnote, there is a silver lining (flossing) ;D in them bringing in the HST. As former Maple Leaf player Tiger Williams said: "they are done like dinner". Will look good on these arrogant Liberals.
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No matter which way you lean, you have to admire the Liberals on this one.... They knew that introducing the HST was political suicide, yet unlike any politicians I've ever seen before they went ahead and implemented the HST because they know that in the long term this tax makes more sense than the PST. This should be the reason we elect governments. We should expect them to make the right decisions, not the popular decisions that are designed just to get votes!
I've always admired liars and con men. First on my list of "People To Admire". ;D ::) ;D
Excellent points in that well written piece Chris. Ya know - if the Liberals just,um, - no that wouldn't work, But maybe... Nope. Not that either. How about....Naw. Dang, I see a move to offices just over the kitchen in the leg- just like they did to McPhail and Kwan ;D
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First on my list of "People To Admire". ;D ::) ;D
Wow and I thought we couldn't agree on anything! ;D
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In case you did not read my letter to the editor here it is again, the true reason they brought in the HST.
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_valley/theprogress/opinion/letters/100535809.html
As a footnote, there is a silver lining (flossing) ;D in them bringing in the HST. As former Maple Leaf player Tiger Williams said: "they are done like dinner". Will look good on these arrogant Liberals.
I read it before Chris and I inserted a quote from it below.....
"One reason I feel why Campbell and his finance minster Colin Hansen were forced to find another way to bring in more revenue is because their government cut taxes starting back when they were first elected. – a total of 37 percent since 2001, the Premier said in a previous article defending his government’s stance on bringing in the HST on July 1. When we see the financial mess we are in now, how wise a move was that to cut these taxes so much?"
The problem I have with what you are suggesting is this.....
Income taxes penalize hard working, enterprising people that risk their savings in order to grow a business. Income taxes penalize those folks by taking money from them that they would otherwise invest, creating wealth and jobs for others. Income taxes generate revenue but they are a huge disincentive to working hard to earn money. Lower income taxes will attract more businesses to invest in BC, higher income taxes will make them look elsewhere!
On the other hand consumption taxes like HST are good because they generate government revenue from people that buy stuff. If you don't buy stuff you'll pay very little HST. :D Wealthy people generally buy a lot of stuff because they can afford it. As a result the government gets more tax revenue from them than from the lower income folk.
This is why I believe that while the government is not doing the "popular" things, they are doing the right things.
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http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Liberals+were+warned+would+hurt+economy/3472819/story.html
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Funny how even in the financial turmoil we are in, the liberals still managed to give themselves raises ::) . hard earned and well deserved for putting our province in the crapper ::)
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Funny how even in the financial turmoil we are in, the liberals still managed to give themselves raises ::) . hard earned and well deserved for putting our province in the crapper ::)
I think it's funny how people blame politicians for a bad economy that is a result of the bad world economy. On the other hand I also think it's funny when politicians pat themselves on the back when the economy is doing well.....
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Funny how even in the financial turmoil we are in, the liberals still managed to give themselves raises ::) . hard earned and well deserved for putting our province in the crapper ::)
Although I agree giving oneself a raise during a period such as this is ill-advised, you can hardly fault the Liberals for our province being "in the crapper". Seems to me there was a rather large economic issue called a Global Recession that just occurred - if the liberals caused that, they are more powerful than even Gordo believes! lol
*edit - apparently I should've read alwaysfishn's comment above, he already posted pretty much the same thing as I did, lol*
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This is why I believe that while the government is not doing the "popular" things, they are doing the right things.
Like... ???
I simply do not consider intentionally and repeatedly LYING to the electorate "the right thing".
No matter how you may try to spin that fact, it is completely arrogant, to the point of asinine with this particular crew.
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Like... ???
I simply do not consider intentionally and repeatedly LYING to the electorate "the right thing".
No matter how you may try to spin that fact, it is completely arrogant, to the point of asinine with this particular crew.
You need to read my whole post IronNoggin..... not just the part you disagree with. ;D
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:D Why do you think there is a bad world economy? The economy is related to governments and their policies IE) deregulation, banking policies, HST, etc etc etc. the public doesn't come up with these policies GOVERNMENT does , so yes the economy is directly related to governments. Do you really think the U.S. would be in as bad of shape if it wasn't for President Bush's horrible economic policies? If mortgages and the stock market were regulated properly by the government's that put the policies in place then there most likely would not have been a crash. And there is no proof that the HST will be better for our economy in the long term, they BELIEVE it will be but no one knows for sure if it will or won't, much like the GST no one knew its full effect until it was in place for a long period of time. The main problem is they lied to every person that voted for them about the HST and are introducing it in the WORST possible time.
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:D Why do you think there is a bad world economy? The economy is related to governments and their policies IE) deregulation, banking policies, HST, etc etc etc. the public doesn't come up with these policies GOVERNMENT does , so yes the economy is directly related to governments. Do you really think the U.S. would be in as bad of shape if it wasn't for President Bush's horrible economic policies? If mortgages and the stock market were regulated properly by the government's that put the policies in place then there most likely would not have been a crash. And there is no proof that the HST will be better for our economy in the long term, they BELIEVE it will be but no one knows for sure if it will or won't, much like the GST no one knew its full effect until it was in place for a long period of time. The main problem is they lied to every person that voted for them about the HST and are introducing it in the WORST possible time.
Suggesting the Liberals are responsible for a bad economy in BC is not true.
Economies rise and fall just like real estate prices and stock prices etc. This is good because both rising and falling economies provide investment opportunities where people can profit. Government's purpose is not to eliminate these cycles, just to try and limit the highs and the lows. As far as President Bush's policies.... it was actually Clinton's policies that created the financial collapse in the US. The thing that Bush could be blamed for is not changing the Clinton policies.
What you suggest is lying, others may suggest is just a change in policy to react to a changing economy... Businesses often change policies based on what their market requires, why can't we accept that responsible government does that as well?
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:D Why do you think there is a bad world economy? The economy is related to governments and their policies IE) deregulation, banking policies, HST, etc etc etc. the public doesn't come up with these policies GOVERNMENT does , so yes the economy is directly related to governments. Do you really think the U.S. would be in as bad of shape if it wasn't for President Bush's horrible economic policies? If mortgages and the stock market were regulated properly by the government's that put the policies in place then there most likely would not have been a crash.
Interesting points, but you may not realize that the recent economic meltdown we experienced has been brewing since the 1980s. Did the current liberals probably contribute? Sure. But so did a number of other governements. And don't sell ourselves short, friend - a huge portion of this issue is due to greed by Joe and Sally Smith - your average consumer.
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Tex: Seems like you and I are on the same wavelength here..... It's good to see some sanity brought to this topic! ;D ;D
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Seems like you and I are on the same wavelength here.....
In addition - there will always be businesses that will interpret or bend the law as they see fit in order to turn a profit. Some much worst than others. Thus the last couple of financial fiascos the past few years.
Heck - even those accepting 'cash only' with no receipts are 'Bending it like Beckham'. :D
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Yes it was Clinton and Bush's policies that led to the collapse, however, it was only during Bush's office term that everyone realized what would happen.Even though he had been warned repeatedly, Bush didn't act until it was already to late. It was the governments Community reinvestment Act and Government Sponsored Enterprises Act that messed everything up. and most economists believe this started in the 90's when these policies were changed not the 80's. Sure there is a small portion of blame to put on to joe blow, but there is far more blame to be put on to the predatory lenders, greedy brokers and stock investors that took advantage of people. As for a policy change, the economy does not change in 4 days enough to allow the government to change policies, like any government fast tracks like that :D. It took governments around the world months to react but the liberals can act in 4 days ??? :D :D :D They lied and they know it just like every commen sense person out there. As for a responsible government... no comment lol. Sure there will be businesses that will bend the law or interpret it as they will , does that make it OK?? no, a crook is a crook and a politician is .....lol
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and most economists believe this started in the 90's when these policies were changed not the 80's.
A number of the key policies were changed prior to the 90s, and the debt bubble began building in the 80s. Some would argue the greatest bull market ever began in the early 1980s and has been driven entirely by debt - both personal and government debt.
From http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_conservative_origins_of_the_subprime_mortgage_crisis
"But by the early 1980s, the lending industry used its political clout to push back against government regulation. In 1980, Congress adopted the Depository Institutions Deregulatory and Monetary Control Act, which eliminated interest-rate caps and made sub-prime lending more feasible for lenders. The S&Ls balked at constraints on their ability to compete with conventional banks engaged in commercial lending. They got Congress -- Democrats and Republicans alike -- to change the rules, allowing S&Ls to begin a decade-long orgy of real estate speculation, mismanagement, and fraud."
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What I didn't like was the Liberal platform during the election:
Vote for us unless you want the BC economy to go down the tubes.
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--the big question is what are they going to do with the money from HST, it will survive what ever party is elected provincially just like GST did federally..
--there is nothing stopping provincial government from lowering their portion of the tax if they so choose.
--there are supposed to be some savings in the collection and processing of one tax vs two... that's government talk for laying off employees.
--I just got back from a road trip through north western USA... noticed the saw mills plugging away..even those that belong to companies that shut down in BC because they claim there was no market... that was part of the great strategy by government that we would be better off cutting so called red tape in the forest industry and allowing a few larger companies to run free in BC and they would be so thankfull that they would stay open and even expand as they are one of the largest benefactors of the HST tax shift.
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But will Campbell keep his word on his announcements regarding the referendum or "weasel word" (B.C. Rail lease ;) his way out of it? Inquiring minds want to know.......
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But will Campbell keep his word on his announcements regarding the referendum or "weasel word" (B.C. Rail lease ;) his way out of it? Inquiring minds want to know.......
I guess you are assuming that the referendum will actually result in the majority of BC voters deciding that they don't want the HST.
I predict that the referendum will go down in defeat. The reason why is that the Liberals will go an a major education campaign in which they will not only explain the HST so that people understand it, but they will also spell out what will happen if the HST is rejected. For example the PST will need to be increased to make up the lost revenue and to pay back the Feds. BC residents will want a refund on the HST they have paid but the poor and the old will also need to pay back the HST rebates that they are already receiving.
Campbell has promised he will do anything the public wants regarding the HST, however he will make sure they understand the consequences. In the end I think HST will stay..... :) which is a good thing!
It's easier to understand why the Zalm is so unhappy.....
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Why would they have to pay back the HST rebates??? All that has happened is the GST rebate is now called the HST rebate, have not seen any changes in the amounts or any announcments regarding an increase/decrease in the HST/GST rebates so the poor and elderly would not be hit that way. Also chances are the NDP will also campaign how the liberals brought in the HST and how the liberals cost every person in the province to have a tax repealed that no one except big business wanted. Chances are the NDP and the anti-HST crew will follow the liberals in campaigning their causes so it will be a tit-for-tat situation.Campbell and promise :D :D :D :D :D ::) ::) ya kinda like oh we wont bring in the HST , dont worry the olympics will only cost 600 million...HAHAHA Campbell and a promise right so trustworthy ::) .
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I guess you are assuming that the referendum will actually result in the majority of BC voters deciding that they don't want the HST.
I predict that the referendum will go down in defeat.
Really? Do you think Campbell is capable of that task?
Again, I'll say it slowly and simply - If you are that poor of a business person that you can't survive with ANY government lolly or tax shift or anything like that- start looking for a job with someone who has the capability to run a business. It's quite obvious to most that inability to make a profit without someone stuffing money in your coffers....... ::)
BTW- Do you not find it odd that the 2 top folks at Elections BC are now unemployed???? Seems a little odd that they were both fired after King Kampbell was denied his info mailer. Coincidence I guess.
BTW- This is curious...
The GST portion of Capital Inputs is already rebated by the Feds, so 5% of the 12% HST inputs have been getting rebated ever since the GST was introduced.
In 2001, the Province eliminated the provincial sales tax on production machinery and equipment
So where is the gain for business?
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Really? Do you think Campbell is capable of that task?
It's not even in Campbell's hands any more, the referendum is something that the public will be voting on...... :o
Again, I'll say it slowly and simply - If you are that poor of a business person that you can't survive with ANY government lolly or tax shift or anything like that- start looking for a job with someone who has the capability to run a business. It's quite obvious to most that inability to make a profit without someone stuffing money in your coffers.......
See, and I thought you always spoke slowly and simply...... ;D
BTW- Do you not find it odd that the 2 top folks at Elections BC are now unemployed? Seems a little odd that they were both fired after King Kampbell was denied his info mailer. Coincidence I guess.
Isn't it about time they got rid of some of the incompetent bureaucrats running this province? :D
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It's not even in Campbell's hands any more, the referendum is something that the public will be voting on...... :o
If they did ACTUALLY did that, who would run the province ??? ;D
The liberals are doing what they always do when someone disagrees with the dictator (king seems too classy for him lol) fire them and make an excuse for it. One of Langley's counsellors recently had to backtrack on what he said about Campbell after a quick phonecall from the dictators guard Coleman. Wonder what would have happened to him if he hadn't switched his opinion 2 hours after the phonecall ::) ::)
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Really? Do you think Campbell is capable of that task?
The referendum is staged to fail. 50%+1 of ALL ELIGIBLE voters have to vote "YES"
We don't even GET 50% showing up sometimes, never mind actually voting :(
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The referendum is staged to fail. 50%+1 of ALL ELIGIBLE voters have to vote "YES"
We don't even GET 50% showing up sometimes, never mind actually voting :(
I believe it is 50% plus 1 of those that turn out to vote. The problem will be how it is worded by Campbell, but wait why are we having to wait until 2011 before we can vote, oh I guess so they can collect HST from us poor people and the Liberal supporters in business can make more. ??? ::)
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I believe it is 50% plus 1 of those that turn out to vote. The problem will be how it is worded by Campbell, but wait why are we having to wait until 2011 before we can vote, oh I guess so they can collect HST from us poor people and the Liberal supporters in business can make more. ??? ::)
It will have to be approved by 50 per-cent of all registered voters and by 50 per-cent of all registered voters in two-thirds of BC's 85 ridings. No wonder Mr Vanderzalm was so upset! ;)
I believe it was the NDP that put the referendum legislation together years ago..... Campbell's hands are tied. :D
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Either way Campbell shoving the HST down our throats with another broken promise will be costly no matter what the result. Too bad voter memory is short ant that the NDP is leaderless (best thing that's happen to Campbell).
No wonder Vzalm is upset, he lost the crown of most hated politician to Campbell.
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oh what's that I hear? ;) oh ya a recall campaign, say goodbye to some liberal mop's
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AF - You skipped over these nuggets- You're slipping Sire
The GST portion of Capital Inputs is already rebated by the Feds, so 5% of the 12% HST inputs have been getting rebated ever since the GST was introduced
In 2001, the Province eliminated the provincial sales tax on production machinery and equipment
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AF - You skipped over these nuggets- You're slipping Sire
The GST portion of Capital Inputs is already rebated by the Feds, so 5% of the 12% HST inputs have been getting rebated ever since the GST was introduced
In 2001, the Province eliminated the provincial sales tax on production machinery and equipment
I skipped over it because I thought everyone knew that..... The benefit to business is the rebate on the non-refundable PST they were paying before HST was introduced. Most things that a business bought (beside capital production equipment and product purchased for resale) was subject to PST and GST. For example; construction, logging and mining companies paid PST and GST on their vehicles. They also paid PST and GST on the repairs they made to those vehicles. The GST was reclaimed, however the PST was not, so it became part of their cost of production. With HST the entire tax is now rebated. I read somewhere that it's estimated that 2-3% of the cost of a product produced in BC was PST.
You could look at every single business and you'd be able to calculate the savings that they now have under HST.
On the same note it's much easier to understand the objection to the HST....... with the Zalm being the only one educating people on HST over the last while, I can see why even the most vocal objectors of the HST don't understand it! ;D
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On the same note it's much easier to understand the objection to the HST
You're catching on- Why would John and Mary Piffleton want to pay more taxes so Engulf and Devour Inc. has a better bottom line? Because if you can't cut the mustard....
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Received from Rafe the other day.
Rafe here -
I received this in the mail and while I can't vouch for its accuracy, it raises very serious concerns that must be answered and dealt with.
>I have worked at Elections B.C. on and off for many years...since the 1980's...retired now. I am friends with a number of people who still work there. Elections is a (was a) non-partisan office...it says so on the door. And I know from experience that the measures taken to live up to that were total at every level particularly during the tenure of Harry Neufeld (CEO) and Linda Johnson (the Deputy Chief Electoral Officer). Linda knows the Elections Act inside and out...an extremely knowledgeable and competent person who has been with Elections for 28 years..the last 19 of them as Deputy CEO. The appointment of Craig James to replace Harry was a mystery. He has no experience with Elections or the Election Act yet here he is...the CEO. (It is now clear he was hired to "clean house"). James called a staff meeting at EBC and said that he had come from the Legislature and a meeting with officials there and Vaughn Palmer (why him?)....he announced that it was Linda's last day. The staff was stunned. Could this have anything to do with the fact that the Liberals spent $780,000 on brochures to sell the HST and then weren't allowed to send them out because they hadn't followed the rules in the Election Act and Linda told them so? This is obviously a revenge firing. The time line is revealing. What is truly amazing is that there is was no reporting of this in mainstream media. This is outrageous. This Liberal government is corrupt and ruthless...if I didn't know this before I sure do now. It is a mystery to me why the NDP have not picked up on this abuse of power by the Liberals and demanded an investigation and let the public know how despicable this is. This is BC's democratic process being dismantled to suit the governing Liberal Party. The silence in the mainstream media is deafening. Craig James is "restructuring" Elections BC at the behest of the Liberals...so much for being non-partisan. The Legislative Committee asked Elections BC for advice on the HST mess. The Liberals didn't want the Deputy Chief Electoral Office answering questions about a referendum..like how much would it cost..who decides on the wording etc. Linda J got fired before she could answer this...James conveniently went to Africa the next day after the Committee met and wanted to ask this. He doesn't know anyway.
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Here's some of the toady's explanation. Maybe somebody with a degree in bafflegab and ancient gibberish might be able to decipher this:
"The organizational adjustments I have made will result in more efficiency, effectiveness, economy and responsiveness and advance the managerial capacity of Elections BC.The changes I have made will offer better opportunities for emerging leaders within the office.I am confident that with the current structure, the office will be able to better execute its statutory mandate, a goal that will serve the interests of anyone who may hold the position of Chief Electoral Officer"
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Wow! Google found a way to decipher that- it says" Not flyered? You're fired." or "Gordo's way or the highway".
BTW Chris- Have you been following the BC Rail trial? That's gonna leave an ugly scar.
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Wow! Google found a way to decipher that- it says" Not flyered? You're fired." or "Gordo's way or the highway".
BTW Chris- Have you been following the BC Rail trial? That's gonna leave an ugly scar.
Yes I have, the lid on the Liberal's caskets get tighter all the time. The grave has been dug and the dirt will be covering it soon.
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Yes I have, the lid on the Liberal's caskets get tighter all the time. The grave has been dug and the dirt will be covering it soon.
Posted this nearly 2 years to th date and now we see the Lib's are on their way out. ;D ;D ;D
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Back to socialist rule for another 4 years...
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Yey the price we pay for freedom and democracy. Going to 14% tax instead of 10% and giving all that money back to ottawa postponing deficit gettingridofness. But at least we were heard and won...
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It is just amazing how people do not realized they voted to increase their income tax by 2% by choosing to go back to the pst + gst system.
Good plan but was not implemented properly by the Liberals.
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It is just amazing how people do not realized they voted to increase their income tax by 2% by choosing to go back to the pst + gst system.
Good plan but was not implemented properly by the Liberals.
The HST was a benefit to the rich and big business while us poor people have to pay for it with many of us having to pick up tins and floats to survive. ;D ;D
I believe Campbell at one time said it was revenue neutral, of course he said a lot of things that were untrue. Also we have a larger debt now than we had when they took power in 2001. ::) ??? Bassi Virk for example, 6 million dollars of legal fees paid by you and I.
If you want more details on the Liberals mistakes check out Alex, he lays it on the line.. http://alexgtsakumis.com/
They are done.
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The HST was a benefit to the rich and big business while us poor people have to pay for it with many of us having to pick up tins and floats to survive. ;D ;D
I believe Campbell at one time said it was revenue neutral, of course he said a lot of things that were untrue. Also we have a larger debt now than we had when they took power in 2001. ::) ??? Bassi Virk for example, 6 million dollars of legal fees paid by you and I.
If you want more details on the Liberals mistakes check out Alex, he lays it on the line.. http://alexgtsakumis.com/
They are done.
I agree that the Liberals are done. Unfortunately we will have to endure watching the NDP chase business out of the province after they get in. This is on top of the fact that the dual tax system makes our businesses less competitive with the provinces that have no PST or HST only.
The HST is a good tax as it simplifies the taxes that are required to fund the social programs people want and need. Reverting back to the silly dual tax system and paying the Feds back the money is not good for the province either.
Unfortunately it's a case of good policy being badly implemented by an arrogant leader. The reaction has been to "cut off our nose to spite our face."
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Something I've never understood, is that Campbell kept saying "It's revenue neutral! It's revenue neutral" If it's revenue neutral that suggests that you're not gaining extra tax dollars and WE are theoretically not paying extra tax dollars (I guess because of those pinner rebates). So, if the province is not going to gain extra tax revenues to help pay for things like HealthCare WHY IMPLEMENT IT AT ALL?!!?! It costs time and money to get it off the ground, if it's a financially lateral move, you just pissed away money to get it going. Talk about a bridge to nowhere.
That being said, I do feel that the reduced tax of 10% would have greatly simplified the taxation process and was probably break even with the 5%/7% system when all is said and done.
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The revenue neutral part means that no extra taxes were being collected by the government.
Taxes are never appreciated by anyone. Government's responsibility is to generate tax revenue while also attracting business to the province so that the people of BC have jobs. HST is that sort of tax. PST is a terrible tax in that it adds to the cost of everything business produces. This makes it less attractive for businesses to set up shop in BC, which means less jobs (or lower paying jobs) in BC.
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as a small business man myself, the HST helped greatly, I expanded and hired two employees
As a lot of costs were reduced.Mine is not a huge profit making business.
Going back to the old system means my costs go up and at least one of the new employees is no longer affordable, We will see about the second.
I am not part of the rich and provide a simple business that keeps the food on the table and the wolves at bay.
Thus the bottom line is that the facts are, despite the talk, going back has resulted in the loss of one job at least.
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as a small business man myself, the HST helped greatly, I expanded and hired two employees
As a lot of costs were reduced.Mine is not a huge profit making business.
Going back to the old system means my costs go up and at least one of the new employees is no longer affordable, We will see about the second.
I am not part of the rich and provide a simple business that keeps the food on the table and the wolves at bay.
Thus the bottom line is that the facts are, despite the talk, going back has resulted in the loss of one job at least.
If you are not rich and are not a big business how can it be possible that you and your employees benefited from the HST? Sorry couldn't resist that sarcastic remark.
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The revenue neutral part means that no extra taxes were being collected by the government.
Taxes are never appreciated by anyone. Government's responsibility is to generate tax revenue while also attracting business to the province so that the people of BC have jobs. HST is that sort of tax. PST is a terrible tax in that it adds to the cost of everything business produces. This makes it less attractive for businesses to set up shop in BC, which means less jobs (or lower paying jobs) in BC.
Being selfish maybe less people will move to BC and less anglers on the water and also will be less attractive for fish framers to set up shop here in British Columbia. ;D ;D
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Being selfish maybe less people will move to BC and less anglers on the water and also will be less attractive for fish framers to set up shop here in British Columbia. ;D ;D
If getting rid of the HST means getting rid of the feedlots, I'm with you on this one Chris! :D
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The funny thing is that the liberals made lots of mistakes and lined their pockets with cash. Now they are done, and the next government will do the same... Since when does a change of government bring real change. If the liberals stay in power at least they shouldn't make the same mistakes... Put somebody new in and they are bound to repeat...
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If you are not rich and are not a big business how can it be possible that you and your employees benefited from the HST? Sorry couldn't resist that sarcastic remark.
Its very simple every single penny counts, savings were enough to expand. Now not sure what will happen with increase. Its not just the tax reduction it was also the ability to recover costs.
I understand the sarcasm. But its amazing how many people believe that statement, I guess they must be secure in their jobs. Wait till they complain about prices going up and the reduction in their buying power.
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I have never seen a population vote for a higher cost of living and to make themselves less competitive domestically and internationally. It took 20 years to revise an inefficient archaic tax code and it will be another 20 before another government has the political will to try it again. Never mind the $1.6 billion dollars that has to be paid back to the federal government. I understand why the retired and nearly retired voted this down but the younger generation's apathy really cost us this time. My business allowed us to direct funds towards the sports fishing industry. How much? Try $250,000 / year. As of next year. Gone. We have three competitors / colleagues who did the same and they will not continue their funding.
As a student, in the late 90's, I sat one on one in the legislative dining room for lunch with two NDP MLA's (still sitting and one who ran for the current leadership) and listened to their ideas. One idea was to bond students to work in BC until they worked off what their education was worth. That was a GREAT idea with one caveat - it was near impossible to get a decent job in the 90's. Both my brothers had to move to the US to get work. One thing some people in this province just do not get is that we are integrated with the global markets and borders do not mean as much today. When the NDP gets elected next year and if they try and raise our taxes our business will be moving to Ontario. The vote will be 3 for and 1 against - I was born and raised here and would find it very hard to leave. So much for the NDP pro-family stance... my family will be split up yet again.
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I have never seen a population vote for a higher cost of living and to make themselves less competitive domestically and internationally. It took 20 years to revise an inefficient archaic tax code and it will be another 20 before another government has the political will to try it again. Never mind the $1.6 billion dollars that has to be paid back to the federal government. I understand why the retired and nearly retired voted this down but the younger generation's apathy really cost us this time. My business allowed us to direct funds towards the sports fishing industry. How much? Try $250,000 / year. As of next year. Gone. We have three competitors / colleagues who did the same and they will not continue their funding.
As a student, in the late 90's, I sat one on one in the legislative dining room for lunch with two NDP MLA's (still sitting and one who ran for the current leadership) and listened to their ideas. One idea was to bond students to work in BC until they worked off what their education was worth. That was a GREAT idea with one caveat - it was near impossible to get a decent job in the 90's. Both my brothers had to move to the US to get work. One thing some people in this province just do not get is that we are integrated with the global markets and borders do not mean as much today. When the NDP gets elected next year and if they try and raise our taxes our business will be moving to Ontario. The vote will be 3 for and 1 against - I was born and raised here and would find it very hard to leave. So much for the NDP pro-family stance... my family will be split up yet again./quote]
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Fouled up my post above. Wanted to say:
But BC is "The Best Place On Earth" they say, of course I guess while they the Liberals are in power. :D
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--as with many significant changes... it often isn't...perfect...first time out of the box.
--this tax could have been modified over time rather than dumping it.
--for those who complained it was a disproportionate burden on poorer taxpayers... qualification for HST exemption could have been better handled.. for those who are marginalized to the point that they don not even file.. ie no fixed address street people...tax moneys could be used to increase services rather than the more cumbersome rebate of tax system.
--as to Big business getting huge windfall benefit....I can live with that for those who actually used the benefit as it was sold to us.. that is to purchase new equipment, hire new employees, treat current employees to a benefit from their new found tax relief.. for those internationally owned forest companies who just put the money in their own corporate pockets or used it to expand their holdings outside of the province.. tweak the rules of exemptions and reward proven performers. Do not allow the benefit to those who did not play ball.
--As I have said before.. I'm not against paying taxes... my greatest concern is how it is spent for our common good.. including healthy industry.
--the big flip flop costs us all money.
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Fouled up my post above. Wanted to say:
But BC is "The Best Place On Earth" they say, of course I guess while they the Liberals are in power. :D
And that is why rationality left they HST debate ::). It was politicized NDP vs. Liberal... everyone I spoke to who wanted to vote it down wanted to "stick it to the Liberals" and that was the crux of their argument against it. Could it be that it was easier than trying to understand the new tax code? Anyone that did their proper due diligence would have figured out that it would have allowed current and the up and coming generations to at least stay on a level playing field with the competition. I guess that is what our generation has to deal with... paying for the Boomers retirement and paying off the debt issued and to be issued to make sure the Boomers lifestyle is not compromised. Far be it for the richest generation the world has ever seen make a sacrifice for their kids and their grand children's future which will be much less prosperous because we have to payoff our parents and grand parents "credit cards".
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And that is why rationality left they HST debate ::). It was politicized NDP vs. Liberal... everyone I spoke to who wanted to vote it down wanted to "stick it to the Liberals" and that was the crux of their argument against it. Could it be that it was easier than trying to understand the new tax code? Anyone that did their proper due diligence would have figured out that it would have allowed current and the up and coming generations to at least stay on a level playing field with the competition. I guess that is what our generation has to deal with... paying for the Boomers retirement and paying off the debt issued and to be issued to make sure the Boomers lifestyle is not compromised. Far be it for the richest generation the world has ever seen make a sacrifice for their kids and their grand children's future which will be much less prosperous because we have to payoff our parents and grand parents "credit cards".
I will be leaving them enought one day but I hope to catch a few more fish first. ::)
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And that is why rationality left they HST debate ::). It was politicized NDP vs. Liberal... everyone I spoke to who wanted to vote it down wanted to "stick it to the Liberals" and that was the crux of their argument against it. Could it be that it was easier than trying to understand the new tax code? Anyone that did their proper due diligence would have figured out that it would have allowed current and the up and coming generations to at least stay on a level playing field with the competition. I guess that is what our generation has to deal with... paying for the Boomers retirement and paying off the debt issued and to be issued to make sure the Boomers lifestyle is not compromised. Far be it for the richest generation the world has ever seen make a sacrifice for their kids and their grand children's future which will be much less prosperous because we have to payoff our parents and grand parents "credit cards".
what a load of garbage! I strongly disagree :)
the schools , medical system, social infrastructure etc. all bought and partially paid for by the hard working people of the day's tax dollars, Industry has paid next to nothing.
The ME ME generations x&Yself entitled and pathetically greedy generation has benefited from those systems as well, yet they don't want to reinvest in the next generations system? They want to blame the older generation for debt loads? Perhaps your right, perhaps it would have been better that you were just given basic litracy at school and the only job available to you is ditch digging. You then only have to hope that your health doesn't fail because you don't have hospitals or on ditch digging wages you or your family can't afford a doctor. Oh, your life expectancy has now dropped twenty years because of disease and overwork/ed ...until you drop, remember no pensions.
The debtload blame has been directed at us, yet you and your generation have benefited just as much, yet you think you are hard done by. I wont even bring up what has been siphoned out of the medical and pension systems, to pay for .... maternity leave, child care, preschool......?
perhaps we should be looking at encouraging industry, innovation, resource extraction, all with Canadian labour. No exporting of raw materials, manufacturing and good paying jobs with tax income to the coffers. Perhaps open Global economy has been more to blame, lost jobs = lost tax base= debt load.
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And that is why rationality left they HST debate ::). It was politicized NDP vs. Liberal... everyone I spoke to who wanted to vote it down wanted to "stick it to the Liberals" and that was the crux of their argument against it. Could it be that it was easier than trying to understand the new tax code? Anyone that did their proper due diligence would have figured out that it would have allowed current and the up and coming generations to at least stay on a level playing field with the competition. I guess that is what our generation has to deal with... paying for the Boomers retirement and paying off the debt issued and to be issued to make sure the Boomers lifestyle is not compromised. Far be it for the richest generation the world has ever seen make a sacrifice for their kids and their grand children's future which will be much less prosperous because we have to payoff our parents and grand parents "credit cards".
Actually there is a lot of truth in those statements, and I'm part of the Boomer generation....
As far as industry paying nothing, I guess it all depends how you look at it. First off it is industry (or companies in the industry) that employ people, who in turn pay taxes. Industry shouldn't be looked at as the "bad guy", because without it the people wouldn't have any income. Industry also provides individuals with the opportunity to grow wealth. By investing in industry, industry grows and the investors wealth grows. Wealth is a good thing as it helps seniors get through their retirement years. Wealth also pays taxes which provide the social programs for everyone.
Left wing politics teaches that wealth and industry are the bad guys...... Fortunately reason and logic says otherwise. You only need to look at countries like Greece and Spain to see where that sort of left wing thinking can end up.
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The HST as it sits transfers tax burden from business sector to consumers, some $2 billion a years worth. About 40 or 45% of provincial GDP comes from exports and no tax is reclaimed from them in spite of the use of provincial services and infrastructure to generate that business; effectively a subsidy to those who purchase the exports and the companies who sell them.
The new tax is applied to a much broader array of goods and services in order to make up that shortfall and comes out of the pockets of individuals instead of the entities that benefit from the use of the services and infrastructure. That $2 billion is actually a couple of billion a year in perpetuity shifted on to the back of Joe taxpayer and justified by some nebulous and ideologically based promises of increased economic prosperity at some time in the future that will come from giving the business sector an easier ride than they are already receiving.
Business is an entity that combines capital and labour to earn profit; the labour is as important to the business' ability to earn profit as the capital is to creating the jobs. Providers of capital have no special entitlement to subsidy simply because they hire the labour necessary to earn profit. Working is what most of us do to support our selves, ie. supplying the labour, and it's out of that payment we receive for our contribution to the profit making exercise that the subsidy to business comes under the new HST system. Not every business plan is a good one and if a business can't cover the costs of operating without consumers subsidizing it's use of the infrastructure and the services that allows it to operate, it shouldn't survive. In pushing for this tax, business is rent seeking; looking to increase profitability without increasing productivity.
Not everyone agrees with the idea that business must be coddled at any cost or that doing so is the route to economic prosperity or that supply side economics work. Some people believe that it is the consumer spending that drives the economy rather than creating excess supply capacity, that taking money out of their pockets to subsidize business access to infrastructure will have substantial negative effects on economic recovery and growth or lack thereof at home. Canadian business has a poor record of innovation and productivity improving investment and has hoarded all the cash benefit they have received from the reduction of corporate tax in the past rather than investing it in new capital plant to create new jobs. Continually increasing subsidies isn't going to reverse that and start creating jobs or driving economic growth but it does make taxpayers worse off. Increased consumer spending will have far greater effect but that can't happen when the consumer is forced to pay costs business should rightfully be paying.
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You can look at the HST as a subsidy to business if you like.
Removing that subsidy from business in BC while other provinces and countries are giving their business's that subsidy, creates an unequal playing field. Being part of a global economy, it is critical that the BC tax system provide industry the same "subsidy" as is provided in other provinces or countries. Reverting back to PST will increase business's cost of goods making them less competitive. This will require a cut in costs in order to remain competitive. Jobs will be lost and some businesses may need to move out of the province. It will influence whether any new businesses locate to BC.
On the other hand the restaurant and many service businesses in BC will do well..... for a while, until other job creating industry starts leaving the province because they can't be competitive.
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If you did not have time to read up the link below is an interesting perspective.
http://youtu.be/nZXu3LXNwEg
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-One of the big winners with HST was larger forest companies... did they build new mills and create jobs or did they pocket the cash and export raw logs.
--the biggest subsidy to industry in BC was cheap hydro power... they didn't need anything else... oh yah this government screwed that up as well by artificially raising prices of power with Run of River contracts that we didn't need. Good old WAC Bennett whom I don't believe anyone would call left wing.. still saw value in Government providing.. true infrastructure.. ie. Hydro, Highways and Rail rather than taking money from the workers and trying to bribe industry to come here.
--By providing infrastructure we are not favouring fly by night companies who will flea as soon as they are given a better cash in pocket offer from elsewhere.
--Taxes provide uncertainty for us and industry as they know there can change... almost without warning.. whereas a railroad is a much more stable guarantee of longer term commitment... that won't be taken away...oops... forgot this government gave that away to.
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what a load of garbage!
the schools , medical system, social infrastructure etc. all bought and partially paid for by the hard working people of the day's tax dollars, Industry has paid next to nothing.
The ME ME self entitled and pathetically greedy generation has benefited from those systems as well, yet they don't want to reinvest in the next generations system? They want to blame the older generation for debt loads? Perhaps your right, perhaps it would have been better that you were just given basic litracy at school and the only job available to you is ditch digging. You then only have to hope that your health doesn't fail because you don't have hospitals or on ditch digging wages you or your family can't afford a doctor. Oh, your life expectancy has now dropped twenty years because of disease and overwork/ed ...until you drop, remember no pensions.
The debtload blame has been directed at us, yet you and your generation have benefited just as much, yet you think you are hard done by. I wont even bring up what has been siphoned out of the medical and pension systems, to pay for .... maternity leave, child care, preschool......?
perhaps we should be looking at encouraging industry, innovation, resource extraction, all with Canadian labour. No exporting of raw materials, manufacturing and good paying jobs with tax income to the coffers. Perhaps open Global economy has been more to blame, lost jobs = lost tax base= debt load.
Perhaps you should watch that little video link I posted.
Seriously??? The schools, medical , social infrastructure etc are NOT ALL PAID FOR. Our national debt is approaching $600 BILLION dollars and that does not include Provincial and Municipal debt. Your parents left you a clean slate with NEW INFRASTRUCTURE. They came back from WWII and built infrastructure and made policy that allowed your generation to prosper (INCLUDING MEDICARE).
Industry does pay it's fair share - many of the projects we look at barely make money here and much of it is to do with taxation and royalties paid to the various levels of government. My business certainly pays its fair share.
"ME ME ME" Generation??? ::) What a joke. When I came out of school in the 90's there were NO jobs in BC because of a hostile climate towards business. I built my own business from nothing, I have NEVER taken any type of social assistance EVER and all my student loans were paid off in FULL. After YEARS of making nothing, budgeting to the penny, my business finally took off 6 years ago and I can say my income taxes alone help to support at least 3 teachers or 2 nurses or 1 doctor or whatever here in BC - plus all the tax benefits the city, province and federal governments get from my corporate, property and sales (HST) taxes. I would say the Boomer's are the ME ME ME generation and stop patting yourselves on the back for the results of your parents hard work. What my greatest concern is, is that my kids will not have a decent education, proper medical coverage or a basic pension because the system will be so leveraged from what your generation is demanding that our tax dollars can barely support debt servicing costs never mind the social programs that Canadians hold dear (ie Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland ... ). There was adequate warning over the past 20 years that this huge demand was coming but during your prime earning years you did not want to pay for the goods being received or go into a surplus to pay for the significant financial obligations coming.
Finally, globalization is a reality and is here to stay during our lifetimes. You use some nice "buzz" words but in order to attract NEW business to support new jobs you have to make it worth it on a risk adjusted basis for a person (or company) to venture their hard earned capital. Take your example of resource extraction. To actually find an economic deposit (1 in 100 active exploration projects) is tough, development costs and timing are considerable (+$100M and 5 to 7 years of permitting), building mine infrastructure in BC is at the high end of global capital costs (ie Galore in NW BC is +$5 billion) and if you actually wanted to process this in BC you would need another smelter here (try permitting that, and who want that in their back yard) and would cost ~$3 Billion. Conclusion - There is ONE company here in BC that can do this and it would risk the entire company if the project failed to yield positive economics. Because of this you need to provide incentives (tax, power credits etc) in order to increase the probability of success as well as attract outside money (our tax base cannot fund this). BUT you seem to be against a more efficient tax structure or incentives for new business - the government and "industry" are a printing press for money and willing investors are plentiful and magically appear...
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--One of the big winners with HST was larger forest companies... did they build new mills and create jobs or did they pocket the cash and export raw logs.
--the biggest subsidy to industry in BC was cheap hydro power... they didn't need anything else... oh yah this government screwed that up as well by artificially raising prices of power with Run of River contracts that we didn't need. Good old WAC Bennett whom I don't believe anyone would call left wing.. still saw value in Government providing.. true infrastructure.. ie. Hydro, Highways and Rail rather than taking money from the workers and trying to bribe industry to come here.
--By providing infrastructure we are not favouring fly by night companies who will flea as soon as they are given a better cash in pocket offer from elsewhere.
--Taxes provide uncertainty for us and industry as they know there can change... almost without warning.. whereas a railroad is a much more stable guarantee of longer term commitment... that won't be taken away...oops... forgot this government gave that away to.
It's not possible to debate policy with someone who has a hate on for the current government. While there are many things that the Liberals have done that I disagree with, I can seperate what I see as good policy and bad policy.
The HST unfortunately was dumped because people couldn't differentiate good tax policy(HST) from their hate for the governing party....
The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence. I experienced NDP governments in both Ontario and BC and the grass is definitely not greener on the NDP side of the fence.
By the way, I'd appreciate if you corrected your post, as the diatribe you posted looks like it was written by me.... ???
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Perhaps you should watch that little video link I posted.
Seriously??? The schools, medical , social infrastructure etc are NOT ALL PAID FOR. Our national debt is approaching $600 BILLION dollars and that does not include Provincial and Municipal debt. Your parents left you a clean slate with NEW INFRASTRUCTURE. They came back from WWII and built infrastructure and made policy that allowed your generation to prosper (INCLUDING MEDICARE).
I think I said Partially paid for, and as for the physical infrastructures that I think has been paid for, the maintenance and expansion to meet growing needs is what I think you are complaining about Regarding the Infrastructure building immediately post war, that is a time tested and proven method of getting people back to work. Cessation of the war effort produced high unemployment and the returning surviving troops requiring work. Put them too work, keep them occupied, collect taxes, don't pay unemployment or welfare. Costly yes but for social security, probably was worth it, knowing what they knew then.
Industry does pay it's fair share - many of the projects we look at barely make money here and much of it is to do with taxation and royalties paid to the various levels of government. My business certainly pays its fair share.Be proud of it as many don't
"ME ME ME" Generation??? ::) What a joke. When I came out of school in the 90's there were NO jobs should have been here in the early eightiesin BC because of a hostile climate towards business. nope climbing interest rates caused a slowdown, due to fears in climbing inflation, due to just recovering from another meltdown a decade before, not forgetting the market meltdown in 87 I built my own business from nothing, I have NEVER taken any type of social assistance EVER and all my student loans were paid off in FULL. After YEARS of making nothing, budgeting to the penny, my business finally took off 6 years ago and I can say my income taxes alone help to support at least 3 teachers or 2 nurses or 1 doctor or whatever here in BC - plus all the tax benefits the city, province and federal governments get from my corporate, property and sales (HST) taxes. Good for you a great success story, but... did you really pay 100% of the cost of your tution, or did you pay approx 45% as do others, taxpayers picking up the rest? I would say the Boomer's are the ME ME ME generation and stop patting yourselves on the back for the results of your parents hard work.Most baby boomers I know fully understand and respect that they owe a huge debt to society in general and the sacrifices they made to give us a jump start, myself included. What my greatest concern is, is that my kids will not have a decent education, proper medical coverage or a basic pension because the system will be so leveraged from what your generation is demanding that our tax dollars can barely support debt servicing costs never mind the social programs that Canadians hold dear (ie Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland ... ).Perhaps you should live there, I have in most of them, and yes I would have an easier time, Canada's social programs are good but in EU countries there is a differant system. The reasons for the EU debt crises is more related to devaluation when changing over to the euro. There was adequate warning over the past 20 years that this huge demand was coming but during your prime earning years you did not want to pay for the goods being received or go into a surplus to pay for the significant financial obligations coming.Yep, I agree, we sleeping at the switch, we should have recognised that the time lag between "Globalisation" and the changes to the Canadian economic structure when it became much more fluid
Finally, globalization is a reality and is here to stay during our lifetimes. You use some nice "buzz" words but in order to attract NEW business to support new jobs you have to make it worth it on a risk adjusted basis for a person (or company) to venture their hard earned capital. Take your example of resource extraction. To actually find an economic deposit (1 in 100 active exploration projects) is tough, development costs and timing are considerable (+$100M and 5 to 7 years of permitting), building mine infrastructure in BC is at the high end of global capital costs (ie Galore in NW BC is +$5 billion) and if you actually wanted to process this in BC you would need another smelter here (try permitting that, and who want that in their back yard) and would cost ~$3 Billion. Conclusion - There is ONE company here in BC that can do this and it would risk the entire company if the project failed to yield positive economics. Because of this you need to provide incentives (tax, power credits etc) in order to increase the probability of success as well as attract outside money (our tax base cannot fund this).Err.. sorry, guess you were unaware that I ran and owned a Company from the mid-eighties through to the early nineties, We ( partners) employed about 60 people up to 100 when required seasonally, We were a Service Company supplying field exploration services from claim staking up to and including development, both here and abroad. I also owned a Diamond Drilling Company, as well as being a vendor and owner of prospects. but then the NDP came into power, declared war on the mining industry, the majors withdrew from BC, basically overnight. Want to still talk about tough decisions?subsequent to that I became a head prospector and project manager for one of the biggest companies in the world. I worked, in every continent except Antarctica .
..[BUT you seem to be against a more efficient tax structure or incentives for new business - the government and "industry" are a printing press for money and willing investors are plentiful and magically appearb].[/quote]..[Not against them at all, just your view.[/b]
I think that you have done well but fail to realise as does many of your as well as my generation, that we are where we are partialy due to events or actions we could not control, and have all benefited in some way or another to them whether we like it or not. If you don't understand that, forget the EU model and look at any of the south Saharan countries, They have exactly the tax system you are talking of.
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Sandy, I am not complaining, I consider it debating. Yes, I agree, an infrastructure program is very useful in getting people back to work, history records this well. I believe that is what is going on right now with some of the largest infrastructure projects this province has seen in years and we are playing catch-up (Port Man, Golden Ears, Sea to Sky expansion etc). These projects kept our economy relatively steady here in BC while much of the rest of the world was experiencing what was being compared with the crash of 1929. I agree with the user-pay so there is direct revenue to pay for the debt. I sat on the Board of Governors for a well regarded technical school in the province for two terms and can say that the freeze on capital projects in the 90's cost us. I was sitting with some fellow students and the NDP Finance Minister of the day approached us with cameras in tow and asked us "How we liked the extra instructors and staff ... " (they increased funding to staffing while freezing capital projects). I replied "Great, where are the class rooms to put them in?". The cameras shut off and the photo-op was over.
Rates in the 80's were out of control not the 90's. The 90's saw the greatest creation of wealth ever. The "crash" in 87, the market recovered by 89. The S&P 500 from 1990 to 2000 saw an increase of over 300%. BC missed the greatest boom in history up to that point because no one wanted to do business here.
As for the cost of my tuition, I paid 100% of my Masters in Finance earned from a well regarded business school in the US. My Undergrad degrees I would have paid 20% of the actual cost - that was the ratio used in the 90's and am unsure what it is today. I would say that I have more than paid that back a long, long time ago.
I am well aware of the issues causing the crisis in Europe. I am having lunch with David Dodge today and I am pretty sure we will be discussing this. Part of the issue is not devaluation but the inability of the debtor nations to devalue their (non-existent) domestic currency to allow for competitive export prices. The only avenue is spending cuts or "pay cuts" and Labour is not taking kindly to this.
Mining in BC in the 90's, ouch. You have my condolences.
Glad you disagree, healthy debate is constructive.