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Author Topic: I found this take on history interesting  (Read 4827 times)

Fisherbob

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alwaysfishn

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 09:08:23 AM »

While articles like this are helpful, this one fails to address the toll that aquaculture is taking on wild salmon while the self interest parties (Government and Industry) figure out the "science". Government and Industry initially put the feedlots in place before any science was even done.... because they knew they could make money on it.  Now the science they are doing, is to try and convince the public that the feedlots are safe.

We could all be more confident in the "science" if a non-related 3rd party did the science. Until we are provided with that sort of science we should get the feedlots out of our oceans and put them on land or in Chile where they will not impact any wild salmon....
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StillAqua

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 11:46:57 AM »

We could all be more confident in the "science" if a non-related 3rd party did the science. Until we are provided with that sort of science we should get the feedlots out of our oceans and put them on land or in Chile where they will not impact any wild salmon....
Who would you consider to be an independent third party that could conduct this science and where would thier independent funding come from? That type of science ain't cheap and goes well beyond collecting a few tissue samples for a lab test.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 03:43:13 PM »

Who would you consider to be an independent third party that could conduct this science and where would thier independent funding come from? That type of science ain't cheap and goes well beyond collecting a few tissue samples for a lab test.

Some or all of the funding is already available to some extent or DFO and the industry wouldn't be doing any.

Wouldn't it make sense to separate out the part of DFO that is mandated to promote the growth of feedlots, from the part of DFO that is mandated to protect wild salmon? In separating, they could use the money they already have and hopefully remove the obvious conflict of interest that exists today.
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Fisherbob

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 04:22:48 PM »

Some or all of the funding is already available to some extent or DFO and the industry wouldn't be doing any.

Wouldn't it make sense to separate out the part of DFO that is mandated to promote the growth of feedlots, from the part of DFO that is mandated to protect wild salmon? In separating, they could use the money they already have and hopefully remove the obvious conflict of interest that exists today.
  Do you think some of that funding should go to foreigners like Dr. Morton for 3rd party science so she can work with the farmers?
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alwaysfishn

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 04:48:40 PM »

 Do you think some of that funding should go to foreigners like Dr. Morton for 3rd party science so she can work with the farmers?

First I need to correct you on the term "foreigner" as Dr Morton has dual Canadian/American citizenship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Morton As a result she is no more foreign than any Canadian citizen.

I'm assuming the second part of your question is a tongue in cheek joke....  However if it's a serious question, I suggest that you ask one of the feedlot boys. That will probably give you the best idea of the possibility of the feedlot farmers agreeing to working with Dr Morton..
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Fisherbob

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 09:11:58 PM »

First I need to correct you on the term "foreigner" as Dr Morton has dual Canadian/American citizenship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Morton As a result she is no more foreign than any Canadian citizen.

I'm assuming the second part of your question is a tongue in cheek joke....  However if it's a serious question, I suggest that you ask one of the feedlot boys. That will probably give you the best idea of the possibility of the feedlot farmers agreeing to working with Dr Morton..
  First of all. Yes you are assuming. Second, i asked you the question AF. I did not expect you to treat me like one of the feed lot boys. If you want me to stay against fish farming, I suggest you stop assuming and treat people with some respect. Including the fishfarmer boys. Open dialog is what we complain want and ask for, is it not?
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alwaysfishn

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 09:55:23 PM »

I apologize if you felt I was being disrespectful Fisherbob....  no disrespect meant, I really did think you were joking with your question.

In answer to your question, I think Morton would be an excellent candidate to lead the scientific studies into the impact the feedlots have on wild salmon. Morton's research has been instrumental in many of the changes that have been made in the feedlot business. As a result of her research into sea lice, the feedlots have been required to monitor and control sea lice. Currently her research into the various diseases is also getting a lot of attention, because like the sea lice problem, DFO and the industry will likely be embarrassed in how they are failing to deal with the issue. The other reason she would be a good candidate is because her only concern is the survival of the wild salmon.

However if you did ask the feedlot boys about the idea of Morton leading a 3rd party you would get a very different answer. The industry and DFO dislike Morton (evidenced by the comments the feedlot boys make) as it has cost the industry a lot, because of the changes they have had to make in how they operate. In addition the resulting negative publicity for the feedlot industry has hurt their sales, therefore their profits. There is no way that either DFO or the industry would support Morton.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: I found this take on history interesting
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 12:32:29 AM »

  Do you think some of that funding should go to foreigners like Dr. Morton for 3rd party science so she can work with the farmers?

Morton does not want to work with government or the industry.  At this point, I doubt there is not much hope for any collaboration.  If you look at some of her recent "science" it can hardly be called science at all.  For instance, look at her conclusions on HSMI and PRV as well as her furunculosis fable recently.  It does not take much investigation to determine that her conclusions with just these examples are incorrect.  Just before the end of the Cohen Inquiry it became pretty clear to me that Ms Morton began to ramp up on a demarketing campaign which does not involve scientific evidence.  It is a campaign that has multiple petitions which are factually incorrect to begin with.  It is meant to scare people from purchasing farmed salmon from BC.  It is campaign fought in the media, on the internet (i.e. her blog) and in public rallies with people with similar mindset.  For instance, Salmonella and Listeria are not bacteria associated with farmed or wild salmon, but recent outbreaks of those bacteria in processing facilities which have other food items have been used to criticize open-net pen aquaculture.  Critics of open-net pen aquaculture were quick to jump on this in social media and spread a bunch of misinformation in a very short period of time.  Yet, if one were to ignore the hysteria and actually look into it they would find that those outbreaks have nothing to do with open-net pen aquaculture at all.  If you want to look at what pathogens are found in Fraser Sockeye for example here is one place to start:

http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/TR/Project1-Report.pdf#zoom=100

Do you see Salmonella and Listeria mentioned?  Unfortunately, this misinformation becomes contagious itself with people that do not care to actually find out more about this and they start believing that Salmonella and Listeria are pathogens being spread by net-pen aquaculture, so they better not eat farmed salmon.  Don’t take my word for it, Bob.  For instance, look up what Salmonella and Listeria are and what conditions promote their existence.  Look at the above reference and begin educating yourself (not meant as a shot against you…just a suggestion) about these pathogens.  You do not have to go to blogs like salmonfarmscience or Ms Morton’s blog for this information either.  It is readily available on the internet.  If you search this forum, I posted numerous references on IHN and IHNV.  You can read them and believe what they are saying or find your own if you wish.

Lastly, I believe this type of campaign is not interested in dialogue about the science that is known and unknown (see Cohen’s Final Report).  It is a campaign that is not interested in considering Cohen’s recommendations, but would rather skip what the report says and come up with their own conclusions and recommendations.  It is a campaign that strongly feels like it has the answers already and is not about to wait for Cohen’s recommendations.  If you read some of Ms Morton’s recent blog posts she seldom references the Cohen’s Final Report and when she does it is often incorrect.  Instead, she sifts through the testimony and carefully selects quotes that support her opinions, but leaves out other relevant material. 

However, to be fair, I am not certain how supportive government is towards Cohen’s recommendations either.  With budgets the way they are and deficit reduction being the main focus these days I would not blame people for being sceptical about some real dollars being directed towards the recommendations.  BC fish farmers have publicly stated that support the recommendations and have an interest in seeing this any new research come out from this.  If these recommendations go into a state of limbo this would be bad for them in the long run because in the meantime the demarketing campaign (which is not science based as evidenced by the Salmonella and Listeria scare tactics) has no bounds or tight budgets associated with it.  It is fairly easy to fire off anything nowadays on social media whether it is the truth or not and have it circulated to a large population in very short period of time.  Facebook, YouTube and Twitter are not going to do any fact checking with this sort of stuff.  The internet can be a great resource for information but can also lead people in the wrong direction. 

As for changes to aquaculture in BC I would give credit to more people than just people like Ms Morton. I have no doubt that people like Ms Morton pushed for more sea lice surveillance, but if you look at programs like the Broughton Archipelago Management Plan it consists of federal government, salmon farm producers and university researchers – not just conservationists.  If you look into how the industry changed in BC it was brought about by many individuals and even the industry itself because in the end they want to demonstrate that they can produce the best product possible.  They are also in competition with other countries doing the same thing.  I admit that Morton’s disease surveillance program (for lack of a more appropriate term…lol) has embarrassed a rather reactive (rather than proactive) government into doing more of this.  I believe much of Morton’s rhetoric could have been derailed if some of Cohen’s recommendations on research could have been implemented years ago.   The BC fish farm industry has actually done a better job at testing than government, but that’s understandable as diseases like IHN and ISA are lethal to Atlantic Salmon.  Upon closer examination, Ms Morton’s disease science in this regard is highly suspect.  It is a more of vendetta against salmon farming than to actually find out something meaningful about these diseases and how they interact with their host and their environment.  Let’s try to inform the public responsibly instead of finding a virus and automatically making linkages to salmon farming.  If you read the above reference you will notice some of the gaps in our knowledge about fish diseases in our waters.  There are government researchers that are doing this sort of meaningful work right now, but do not get the spotlight that Ms Morton’s receives. 
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