Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: kosanin kosher salt on April 20, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
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Where do you stand?
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I think everyone needs to get a vaccine but not that it should be mandatory. That's too intrusive. Most available data indicates that about 3/4 of Canadians are willing to get a vaccine. In a Angus Reid study published last March 66% of Canadians indicated they will get a vaccine asap. If that level of vaccination is achieved, Public Health Officials think that more than a enough to break the cycle of infection and establish herd immunity.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vaccine-poll-hesitancy-dropping-1.5940400
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/45-28-0001/2021001/article/00011-eng.htm
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Mandatory means that the government mandates that everyone is vaccinated. I haven't heard anyone suggest this is an option except conspiracy theorists.
Obviously it makes no sense.
Those that choose not to get vaccinated will be limited in what they can do and where they can go to prevent spread to those that have compromised immunity or cannot be vaccinated.
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Those that choose not to get vaccinated will be limited in what they can do
is that not sorta kinda making it mandatory but not making it mandatory lol
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is that not sorta kinda making it mandatory but not making it mandatory lol
Absolutely not. You absolutely have the right to not be part of normal society by not getting vaccinated.
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In effect we may see a reverse approach on the part of people seeking employment, contract work, trades people doing business, students and so on that actually provide proof of vaccination including boosters and periodic updates without being askesd. It will be seen as something that distinguishes truly qualified people from those less so.
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I expect that when the border does re-open, my family will have to show proof of vaccination to be admitted to Canada.
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You guys seem to be forgetting that the government works for you, and that it is the people whom have the 'power' to apprise the government of their wishes. Having the courage to do just that however is another matter...
'rifle
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I would only support mandatory vaccination if the government made it mandatory that everyone has a BMI of less than 25, this would benefit society far more than vaccination.
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I would only support mandatory vaccination if the government made it mandatory that everyone has a BMI of less than 25, this would benefit society far more than vaccination.
CDC stats indicate that the best outcomes for people who contract Covid are those with a BMI of about 25 (give or take) and the worst with BMIs in the obese range. This doesn't mean it is the most significant factor by any means. It also states nothing about the relationship about BMI and age - and you can guess that one.
Overall your proposal doesn't seem to have a lot of contained logic. Should people who develop covid but put on crash diet? It seems like another attempt to deny the seriousness of the outbreak and to promote quackery. Now where's mu Lysol? Time for a drink!
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R we talking about making them all mandatory or just covid.
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absolutely not.
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@wildmanyeah - only Covid. If one chooses not to should he/she be exempt from the Canadian charter of Rights and Freedoms
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CDC stats indicate that the best outcomes for people who contract Covid are those with a BMI of about 25 (give or take) and the worst with BMIs in the obese range. This doesn't mean it is the most significant factor by any means. It also states nothing about the relationship about BMI and age - and you can guess that one.
Overall your proposal doesn't seem to have a lot of contained logic. Should people who develop covid but put on crash diet? It seems like another attempt to deny the seriousness of the outbreak and to promote quackery. Now where's mu Lysol? Time for a drink!
The logic is clear to me. A BMI >25 is considered overweight and >30 is obese. You agree that COVID outcomes are worst for obese individuals. Therefore, it would be logical that overweight individual are also likely to be at higher risk than a "normal" weight individual? While weight or BMI is not the only or most significant factor, it is a good surrogate for numerous health based factors, which are also associated with increased age. So there is no quackery involved, just a possible inability to follow logic.
Excess weight is a very good indicator of metabolic health and the condition of the immune system. I do not have figures for Canada, but in the US, only 12% of the population is considered to be metabolically healthy (based on an assessment of BMI, insulin resistance, CRP, blood sugar, HDL/triglyceride ratio) and I am sure Canadians are not too far behind. This is why comorbidities such as obesity, diabetes and metabolic syndrome along with age are the most significant factors in severity of COVID outcome, as clearly establish by numerous research papers. Suggesting crash diets when someone gets infected is like slamming the stable doors shut after the horse has bolted. However, promoting and improving peoples health by reducing obesity, diabetes, inflammation etc and normalizing hormone, vitamin and mineral levels (particularly Mg, Vitamin D and Zn) prior to infection would have a profound beneficial impact on the heath care system and not just in a reduction in COVID severity.
I have been vaccinated, strongly believe that it is the most effective and speedy way of achieving herd immunity, but I would never support mandatory vaccination.
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KNN - it's called "Fat Shaming". It may help MDs identify who is obese or underweight but it it is a simplistic formula derived almost 200 years ago:
How useful is the BMI:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255712
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/6/11377158/bmi-flaws-tessa-embry
https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/bmi/bmi-flaws-history-other-ways-measure-body-weight/
https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/bmi-drawbacks-and-other-measurements#1
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-bmi-an-accurate-way-to-measure-body-fat/
BTW I am 6'1" & weigh 188. Share your own!
as I asked - do you proposed putting obsese people on a crash diet when they have covid and are in the ICU?
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KNN - it's called "Fat Shaming". It may help MDs identify who is obese or underweight but it it is a simplistic formula derived almost 200 years ago:
How useful is the BMI:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/255712
https://www.vox.com/2016/4/6/11377158/bmi-flaws-tessa-embry
https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/bmi/bmi-flaws-history-other-ways-measure-body-weight/
https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/bmi-drawbacks-and-other-measurements#1
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-bmi-an-accurate-way-to-measure-body-fat/
BTW I am 6'1" & weigh 188. Share your own!
as I asked - do you proposed putting obsese people on a crash diet when they have covid and are in the ICU?
Huh?
It is a simple truth that if someone is overweight they are likely to be less healthy and the more over weight someone is the less healthy they are likely to be. When did acknowledgement of this simple fact become "Fat Shaming"? Has this become the new snow flake, woke norm? Does this also mean that if someone is anorexic, we can't say that they are likely to be unhealthy because we would be "Skinny Shamming" them?
BMI is a pretty useless metric. I used it for simplicity rather than get into a long winded discussion of the intricacies and indications of poor metabolic health. The best physical metric is to measure your waist to height ratio. Anything under 0.5 is optimal. However, blood work is even better, as per the parameters previously noted.
Ralph; you are the one who mentioned putting people on a crash diet when they have COVID. I never mentioned or even intimated that would be a suitable approach. Drastically changing someones weight and metabolic processes, while their immune systems were being so severely challenged, would be very unwise. The diet or lifestyle change should be done before you get ill so that you give yourself the best chance to fight off a nasty bug. This is why older people and obese people have suffered from COVID on a disproportional basis, because their immune systems are not as good as they once were or should/could be.
What I was and am suggesting is that people with good metabolic health tend to have robust immune systems that will help reduce the likelihood of catching COVID (and many other respiratory diseases) and even if/when they do get infected they are far less likely to get adverse symptoms or end up in hospital. These are self evident truths.
Obesity, diabetes and poor metabolic health in Canada and the rest of the world is a epidemic in of itself. Modern diseases associated with excess wight (not always, but generally), include cardio vascular disease, heart attacks, strokes, kidney disease, PCOS in women, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, optical degeneration, peripheral neuropathy and impaired circulation leading to amputation, Alzheimers and other dementia's...and the list goes on. These disease cost billions and billions to treat every year and put a huge strain on medical systems around the world.
Therefore, what I was trying to say in the original post was that if a government were willing to crush our civil liberties by mandating vaccination, why not mandate/regulate other aspects of our health and lifestyles that are bad for us; such as narcotics, smoking, drinking, driving .... oh wait...
BTW I am 61, 5'10", 162 lbs and ex diabetic, who was never particularly overweight at a max of 176 lbs (BMI = 25.1).....so its not all about weight, it just a good starting point.
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They can't force a vaccine that's only been approved for Emergency Use. The approval process for these vaccines is not the same as let's say a Measles vaccine. Governments technically won't need to make it mandatory an how. Private corporations will however make them mandatory. Such as airlines, shopping centers and so on. Its already happening is many other parts of the world. Isreal has a COVID health pass. The UK is working on rolling one out soon. It'll come here too. The CCP wants the whole world to use their QR system.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-s-xi-jinping-is-pushing-for-a-global-covid-qr-code-he-may-struggle-to-convince-the-world/ar-BB1bh2oQ
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Thanks Knn I think we agree that this is a superfluous discussion. Remember you brought this up not me and your initial statement, that "I would only support mandatory vaccination if the government made it mandatory that everyone has a BMI of less than 25" was rather flippant and little to do with "what do we do now".
You've agreed BMI is not all that useful and have changed your argument to issues of "metabolic health". Even if it was a near perfect world where nearly everyone had an ideal BMI and metabolic health how could that stop disease vectors like covid? I doubt the risk from covid or any other serious illness would cease to be or diminish to nothing.
As I said earlier I don't favor mandatory vaccination though I think everyone should get one. Those who want to get should definitely be able to do so.
cheers
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@wildmanyeah - only Covid. If one chooses not to should he/she be exempt from the Canadian charter of Rights and Freedoms
Whoa.