Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Kokanee in cultus lake?  (Read 5435 times)

fish tracker

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Kokanee in cultus lake?
« on: April 05, 2009, 09:47:01 PM »

I went out to cultus lake to the same spot I often fish this time of year for cutthroat trout that are feeding on the salmon fry,the were plenty of fish thrashing through the schools of fry.We watched for the jumps and chased the schools and casted near where they were feeding we our first fish was a 16 inch cutthroat a beauty,the weird thing was after that all the fish we caught were about 10-12 inches with almost no spots crome with a blue-green back looked alot like a kokanee.whenever we caught one it would have 6-8 others follow it to the boat so I figure they were hunting in schools .Trout dont usually school do they.All fish were released.would these be resedent kokanee or year old salmon that would still be heading to the ocean?What else could they be?
Logged

Every Day

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2260
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2009, 09:51:50 PM »

Were any of them hatchery?
If so they could be sockeye smolts  ???
I know in the purse seining they caught res kok's and coho so it's possible.
Logged

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3380
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 07:11:59 PM »

Most likely these are coho.  These fish have an amazing life history, different from the normal coastal coho (1 year in freshwater, smolting, migrating and returning to spawn in freshwater in their 3rd) in that scale and otolith data shows these fish spend 2 years in Cultus Lake.   I would think, but don't know for sure, this is also the case in Kawkawa Lake, near Hope. 
This particular Cultus coho life history was recognized and reported by DFO Scientists way back in the 40's.
 
Dan is correct in asking if the fish were hatchery marked - many, but not all of the coho in Cultus are adipose clipped, meaning they were released from the Chwk River Hatchery.  What makes this group unique is that after release from Chwk Hatchery they decide to enter Sweltzer Creek, swim upstream about 3 km, then spend at least 1 extra year in Cultus, instead of heading to the salt.  These destined fish tend to arrive at the Cultus sockeye smolt fence a few days after the release from Chwk River Hatchery.
God knows I've tried but have been unsuccessfull in convincing several grad students to pursue this as a thesis.  Maybe one day ....
Logged

kingpin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1034
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 07:39:30 PM »

there are kokanee, land locked coho, dollies/bulls, cutties, and rainbows among others in that lake, in not so great numbers but they are there.
Logged
Im an advocate for the supremacy of the bait fisherman race and a firm believer in the purity of it.

fish tracker

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 09:18:31 PM »

Two of the fish we caught were clipped hatchery fish.

Obviously cultus lake has the habitat for growing salmonoid species I have caught many fish in this lake throughout the spring summer fall.It is to bad most of the season you end up getting swamped by power boats often driving irradically  with little attention to what is around them.I've even witnessed a few large accedents one resulitng in death.The lake is also plagued by a large gasoline slick by mid summer which probablly doesn't help the habitat.This is a lake that is home to the endangered sockey salmon run plus all other types of salmon.It's to bad it can't be promoted as a world class wild life and fishing provincial  park instead of  out of control place for people with to much money and not enough brains.I would love to see this place used to its full potential in my life time.
Logged

fish tracker

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 09:25:28 PM »

Another thing I forgot to mention was,one of the fish had small worm looking creatures all over its gills they about a quarter inch long and one eighth in diameter,an off white color only on the gills though anyone know what it might be?
Logged

arimaBOATER

  • Guest
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 10:18:25 PM »

Cultus Lake ya spent 100's of hrs there... We were in a small car-topper in that lake in the 70's & even then there were lots of 15ft to 23 ft power boats... pulling skiers.... One wave from a "big boat" carried us like a surf board for 1/2 km... I thought for awhile we would crash at the north end of the lake...RIDING with that wave...ha.................................  Another time my cousins were only 35 yards away from shore heading for the boat launch & a high powered boat approached pulling a skier... (only 1 person in the boat & his head was TURNED LOOKING AT THE SKIER...)  I couldn't believe it ...the guy in the approaching boat just kept looking behind............ as his boat headed straight for my 2 cousins.... BAM boats collided about 3 -4 ft from the bow of our boat ( nearly T-BONED)  As it turned out our fiberglass car topper flipped & the high powered boat sailed through the air & landed perfectly... 1 cousin was floating in the water...life perserver... then the guy jumped out of his high power boat & brought up my other other cousin to the surface...she was 15ft under water..... BASICALLY saved her life !!! So in one minute he did one very bad boating mistake BUT the next minute ...he was a HERO... Our boat was a write off...one big chunk was missing from the side. -----We were just HAPPY... no one was killed. ------------------------------------ A friend of mine & myself did some scuba diving over by the bay (east side of the lake near the gov. beach & picnic area) in about 30ft of water...& we seen alot of BIG FISH ... dark backs...looked like 3-5lb trout...mind you this was back in the 70's......... TODAY who knows ..... BUT the big boats RULE in that lake ...LITTLE BOATS beware...
Logged

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3380
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2009, 02:14:24 PM »

The worm like creatures you saw were parasitic freshwater copepods.   They are common in most lakes and in Cultus they are very specific about their hosts.  They particularly seem to like sockeye and kokanee and are regularly seen on downstream migrating sockeye smolts.  Coho smolts and char not so much and I have never seen them on Pikeminnows, Peamouth chub and Largescale suckers.  These copepods die when the fish reach saltwater.
The removal of many thousands of Pikeminnow over the last few years could improve the survival rates of other predators, such as cutthroat, rainbow and bull trout, so sports fishing in Cultus may improve.
Logged

Every Day

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2260
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2009, 07:11:57 PM »

Sure know your stuff Dave.
If I pass college I'll need to get more details about the research you want done  ;)

Have always wanted to fish this lake more, but the boaters keep me off.
Much prefer the smaller lakes up in the Harrison area, although the fish were not as big.
Have seen some 1-3 pound bows caught during the pikeminnow derby just off the bottom with a worm as well.
Logged

GoldHammeredCroc

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 02:38:48 PM »

The larger slivery clipped fish are quite likely two year old sockeye smolts that are headed out on their migration to the sea.  A couple of big coho smolts have also left too Dave.  Decent sized one last night.
Logged

mykisscrazy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 04:45:21 PM »

Hi Dave,

What size are the coho that are released from the Hatchery that eventually make their way to Cultus? The regular 10 to 15 gram smolt size?
VEMCO's Acoustic tags are getting smaller and smaller. I've heard rumors that in a year or two they will be small enough for some wild cultus sockeye work.

Any idea if the Cultus Kokanee population is also in decline?
Logged

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 3380
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 07:00:37 PM »

Don't know the size of released coho smolts ... Buck, can you help here?

These new tags have great potential and will help all endangered stocks, not just Cultus sockeye.
When Buck and I were beachseining Cultus sockeye at Lindell Beach back in the early 80's we caught a lot of kokanee; big fish about 2 lb.  It is possible that with all the experimental releases of sockeye into Cultus there may be more residuals... aka kokanee.
Thanks for the update Andrew.
Logged

buck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 313
Re: Kokanee in cultus lake?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 09:36:55 PM »

Dave
Coho released from the hatchery average 20- 23 grams. Release time mid May . Just as a side note this is the first year that we have not had a steelhead back to the hatchery outlet to date.
Normally we have 20 - 40 fish holding and staging to spawn. Not a good sign.
Logged