Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: wazzu on February 28, 2006, 06:48:25 PM
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revist an old issue .a bait ban on the vedder an all waters, is it such an issue to change fishing styles.I know its hard for old dogs to
change but change is good donkey.its nice to catch fish but being out on the river is so r @ r . give the fish a break ?
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Hey Wazzu, are you a fly fishing elitist? From that post it sure sounds like. Or if now that part of the PETA!? Give me a break, and hide in your basement where you belong. I myself rarely use bait, if at most mabe 5-10 times a year and I fish 360 days a year. So my opinion is not biased at all. What is your prefered type of fishing Wazzu? There is nothing wrong with Bait, however there is something wrong with fisherman like you ::)
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good call bird man, all a bait ban on the vedder will do is balloon the growing numbers of flossers even more, again hiring more enforcement is the best answer.
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lets face it, you will point a finger at every one else but bait is still not necerssary with todays fishing techniques. only use bait for
harvest of fish for hatchery.
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point taken. no i dont fly fish, but i do live on the river . yes i see all the beeks day after day
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hey wazzu, flossing is not a technique its legalized snagging, i have been fishing b.c. since 1958 and i have seen bait bans come and go over the years and believe me i have seen just as much damage done by artificials as bait, and in both cases not a whole lot. Tell me, have you tried to catch jacks without bait or scent?
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It must be tough seeing the longlining snaggers on the river everyday. I woulda been on a shooting spree by now. Stay at home or learn to shortfloat. Very few fish become mishooked this way and in the end mistreated. To all of the beeks out there, learn how to fish or stay off the rivers. Too many people are too worried about "bringing home the bacon". If this is the case go to Save on Foods and buy a fillet of fish. This will save you lots of stress. Too all of you who aren't a meat fishermanor don't want to be, shortfloat. The answer to it all. For those that don't know, a fish's field of veiw is more above them than infront and below. Something to consider when your dredging for that piece of chrome.
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Jack's can be just as simple to catch without bait/scent. They are just as willing to take the artificial bait as they are the real stuff.
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flossing ,not likey its ok for city slickers as far as fishing i have a my first fish picture standing beside my dads 50 dodge.i love using
wool patterns
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Really, well bone cross you must be one hell of a fisherman, the humble carp fishes many ways but has not had much success on jacks, and this is on remote rivers up north where the fish haven't even seen another offering go by.
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It must be tough seeing the longlining snaggers on the river everyday. I woulda been on a shooting spree by now. Stay at home or learn to shortfloat. Very few fish become mishooked this way and in the end mistreated. To all of the beeks out there, learn how to fish or stay off the rivers. Too many people are too worried about "bringing home the bacon". If this is the case go to Save on Foods and buy a fillet of fish. This will save you lots of stress. Too all of you who aren't a meat fishermanor don't want to be, shortfloat. The answer to it all. For those that don't know, a fish's field of veiw is more above them than infront and below. Something to consider when your dredging for that piece of chrome.
Nice. Have you ever considered running in politics? I know you're young and all... ;)
I can feel it now, everyone is changing their techniques to the way you use because you know... they must change so they wouldn't be associated with the meat hunters, beeks, dredgers, longline snaggers, unethical terrible terrible fish killers who you urge to shoot if you see everyday. A pretty convincing technique to improve the current state of sportfishery in my opinion. ::)
Wazzu questions a valid issue, whether he is trolling or not, if you are unable to engage in the debate without immediately labelling the questioner a flyfishing elitist or PETA supporter, then it maybe wise for you to stay quiet, just like you have been. If you have the knowledge to tap into the issue by discussing the rationality behind the usage of bait and the presence or absence of its harm on fish, then please, continue and explore the issue and persuade those who don't see your views.
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Kudos Rod, well said, in MY OPINION i feel a bait ban is not necessary on a hatchery enhanced system when the fish are put there for retention, lets face it since we started fishing as wee tads when we caught a fish we where all proud to take it home to mom and pop to show our achievments, and have mom cook up our trophy to feed the family. Hatchery fish are for taking, i can remember when the powers that be wanted all hatchery fish taken so they wouldnt spawn with native stocks, we all know that this is not possible, so in my opinion let the bait fly for those who wish, and to those who don't use bait enjoy youre chosen method.
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lets rember the vedder is most heaveily fished river in canada . if it was not for volunteers like chris an friends of the river we would
be in hole lot of heart. just think what you can, maybe give glo bugs a chance ,a new challenge.thanks
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Wazzu I re-read your post several times and I'm having trouble seeing why exactly it is you wish to have bait banned on the Vedder. You mention that it isn't necessary to catch fish, which I will agree with, however, you're going to have difficulty convincing anyone hear that the Vedder's stock are in any sort of danger (save for the winter springs). I can see banning bait on rivers with no augmentation such as the Thompson where the fish have to travel great distances only to be caught multiple times.
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lets rember the vedder is most heaveily fished river in canada . if it was not for volunteers like chris an friends of the river we would
be in hole lot of heart. just think what you can, maybe give glo bugs a chance ,a new challenge.thanks
where did you see the vedder is the most heavily fished river in Canada ? I personaly I rarely use bait, but I don't see that banning bait will make a significant differance to catch ratios. most of the fish caught in the vedder are put in the vedder to be caught are they not?.
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look at the area of the vedder and how many fisherman are on the river or ask fishiers
its like the old shirt story,it feels good why change. its up to the fisherman to presurve are
rivers .you watch and look at webster road ? that should make you take notice .
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The problem that arises whenever the bait issue is brought up stems from every interest group does not recognize and validate the others' reasons to fish. Anti-bait individuals are immediately accused of being flyfishing elitists, while pro-bait individuals are labelled as lazy slobs who only wish to fish the easy way and take whatever they catch home. In the end, the reasoning behind the usage of bait and its impact on an aquatic ecosystem is left in the corner while no compromises emerge from all groups within the sportfishing community.
Let's review why we fish again.
- To socialize
- To relax.
- To bring something home to eat.
- To get in touch with nature.
- To catch and release the biggest fish.
- To catch and release as many fish as possible.
- For fun.
Out of every fishing method employed, or every activity taken place in outdoor, there will always be a negative impact on the resource. To ensure sustainability, the resource manager needs to minimize this negative impact.
The problem does not lie on bait ban. In fact, bait fishermen are happy to see bait being banned in certain vulnerable systems as they understand its effiency. The problem becomes evident when resource managers choose to take shortcuts by grouping all systems as one and applying bait ban on all of them, regardless of the ecological status of these systems.
Is it necessary to ban bait on the Chilliwack River because bait is too efficient on hatchery fish that will be killed when caught anyways? No. In fact, the use of bait cuts down angling hours and reduces crowding. Well... not so evident, because, you know... The Vedder is the busiest river in Canada (stats and source please?).
On the other hand, is it necessary to ban bait in a system where stock number of a particular species is vulnerable, and that these fish maybe caught repeatedly when bait is employed? Yes, I'm sure it's in every angler's best interest to sacrifice a few multi-fish days to keep mortality rate down.
Are there stocks of concern in the Chilliwack River that are present in the system, which may harmed by bait users? Wild winter steelhead? The answer may sit in the difference of regulations between January/March and April/May.
Should bait be banned because it is too easy? Should flyfishing be banned in lakes because seasoned flyfishermen are able to connect with dozens of trout while a kid sitting on lake shore and dangling a worm in the water may only get one?
Fish the way you wish to fish within the regulations, leave the management of the resource to those who have the first hand knowledge and data of the ecology of a system. If you have a problem with the decision of the managers, get involved by consulting with them. Coming onto a discussion forum and trying to convince those who are out there for the same reason as yours to fish the way you do, it doesn't work so well.
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only use bait for harvest of fish for hatchery.
You said it yourself. Only use bait when looking to retain hatchery fish. Or was that, it's only acceptable to fish with bait if you're fishing for fish for the hatchery?
Frankley, your argument would be much stronger if you could organize your thoughts in a more understandable manner.
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well i guess everbody thinks there they know whats best for the river and thats ok .change is good
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wazzu, you still haven't explained how a bait ban would improve the vedder or it's fish.. Is there a higher mortality rate with bait caught released fish than artificial bait caught fish? Do you think everyone will give up on the vedder without bait, thus relieving pressure from it?
Why exactly would a bait ban on the vedder be good?
Not seeing it,
johnny
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If it was found that bait fishing was damaging the fishery, ban it. If it was found that flyfishing was damaging the fishery, ban it. Neither of these have presented a problem on the Vedder so both camps should just shut the hell up! ;)
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last sunday above the crossing I found a 9lb wild buck dead with a black egg sucking leach in it, and the 2 years ago a 16 lb doe on the thompson with a blackGp in its throat. so lets all not be quick to judge,
I think most people are more upset that their right as a fisherman will be removed. most angler progress to fly fishing over time.but they want the decision to go that route instead of someone making it for them.
Just remember all the great fly fisherman were first great drift fisherman
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last sunday above the crossing I found a 9lb wild buck dead with a black egg sucking leach in it, and the 2 years ago a 16 lb doe on the thompson with a blackGp in its throat. so lets all not be quick to judge,
I think most people are more upset that their right as a fisherman will be removed. most angler progress to fly fishing over time.but they want the decision to go that route instead of someone making it for them.
Just remember all the great fly fisherman were first great drift fisherman
I think you're right, anglers have often turned to fly fishing to increase the chalenge and all the power to them /us , what concernes me is that when people have chosen a paticular method to fish they decide to preach that their method is the only ethical/sporting method and everyone should be using that method.should the regulations dictate that a catch and release fishery was in order there would still be fish killed due to shock or pyhsical damage in the fight for freedom.
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I think you're right, anglers have often turned to fly fishing to increase the chalenge and all the power to them /us , what concernes me is that when people have chosen a paticular method to fish they decide to preach that their method is the only ethical/sporting method and everyone should be using that method.should the regulations dictate that a catch and release fishery was in order there would still be fish killed due to shock or pyhsical damage in the fight for freedom.
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Of course this is the case, why did you buy the truck you own, its because you felt it was the best choice out there, same as when I sell boats, customers beleive that their boat is the best because they just spent fifty thousand dollars on it. if you spent 3000.00 on a spey outfit with the wader and the whole setup wouldnt you feel like you have to preach on the methods you are using.
I have spey fished, single handed and spoon chucked for steelhead but there is little as satisfying as watching a float plunge under on the perfect drift though that sweet spot. its almost magical, its something that you can only recieve from a summer run fish on a dry fly.
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Bait ban on freshwater yes!! I am all up to a freshwater ban. I hate using bait, its stinky dirty and takes alot of attention. I have also found in the past that i have caught lots of fish on artificials aslong as everyone is using artificials. But as soon as buddy comes along with his roe,worms or whatever he catches all the fish.(not to mention usually deep in the throat) As far as I am concerned their is no need for bait with the technology we have today to catch fish.
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i personaly use bait quite often i also wool ties and what ever catches the fish , i pay close to 100 hundred dollars a year to fish not to mention the thousnds in gear , and the hundreds in tackle . my family loves to eat fish for it is very healthy great tasting ive fished bc waters since 1988 , ive seen the coho stocks deplete then come back,the average fisherman might catch , what 10-15 fish a year maybee other than sockeye remember were talking average fisherman, i would say 75percent if not more really dont know how to fish.i think a bait ban on the vedder is stupid for our fishery is not in danger from the averge fisherman but from commercial fisheries.
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This is getting real old, "Stinky, dirty" those are good arguments for banning bait, give me a break. Let's get real folks as far as in-river steelhead and salmon fisheries bait really causes no more mortality than other gear types. As a matter of fact in ocean fisheries the use of bait(or any other tackle type) has a far greater impact(I know,I know you don't catch steelhead in the chuck, but lets use salmon for an example). So if you plan on banning bait in the rivers(province already tried and had their knuckles rapped) it only makes sense to do it in the ocean, where the mortality rates are about 5 times as bad. And I am sure that would go over real well.
I really hate debating this topic, but everyone is an "expert" and seems to express their "expert" views on these forums.
Well that's enough for me, just makes me angry when people put people who are fishing perfectly legally into some little cliche(beeks).
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HEY!!!! how did fly fishing get the blame for this argument on bait bans???? you don't golf with one club, you don't have to fish one method either...i fly fish cause I'm anal and get bored standing around...i think it's also why i used to love going to the range and pounding balls...it has it's own therapy to it....i give my buddy sh*t constantly about his old c.p. and guts...that's half the fun of being out there with your friends, seeing who can catch what with what....it's smack talking at it's finest....i don't like guts but roe sacks are another story...and worms...i grew up on worms like most fisherman for christs sake...if i could figure a way to tie a little ba$tard bug to my hook and not have it come off when false casting i probably would..ESPECIALLY IF I COULD CATCH A STINKING STEELHEAD WITH IT... ;).....
But enough of all this, sometimes guys people like to just go to a spot and piss in everyone else's boots because their own lives are so miserable...they just like to stir the pot...I'm sure there are elitist fly guys out there as I'm sure there is elitist c.p.'s out there too...(Ron)...but classifying any one group and saying one is so much better then another is just so much b.s. it's not worth getting all riled up over it....a bait ban on hatchery fish??? tip your boot over buddy and move on...
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The problem that arises whenever the bait issue is brought up stems from every interest group does not recognize and validate the others' reasons to fish. Anti-bait individuals are immediately accused of being flyfishing elitists, while pro-bait individuals are labelled as lazy slobs who only wish to fish the easy way and take whatever they catch home. In the end, the reasoning behind the usage of bait and its impact on an aquatic ecosystem is left in the corner while no compromises emerge from all groups within the sportfishing community.
Let's review why we fish again.
- To socialize
- To relax.
- To bring something home to eat.
- To get in touch with nature.
- To catch and release the biggest fish.
- To catch and release as many fish as possible.
- For fun.
Out of every fishing method employed, or every activity taken place in outdoor, there will always be a negative impact on the resource. To ensure sustainability, the resource manager needs to minimize this negative impact.
The problem does not lie on bait ban. In fact, bait fishermen are happy to see bait being banned in certain vulnerable systems as they understand its effiency. The problem becomes evident when resource managers choose to take shortcuts by grouping all systems as one and applying bait ban on all of them, regardless of the ecological status of these systems.
Is it necessary to ban bait on the Chilliwack River because bait is too efficient on hatchery fish that will be killed when caught anyways? No. In fact, the use of bait cuts down angling hours and reduces crowding. Well... not so evident, because, you know... The Vedder is the busiest river in Canada (stats and source please?).
On the other hand, is it necessary to ban bait in a system where stock number of a particular species is vulnerable, and that these fish maybe caught repeatedly when bait is employed? Yes, I'm sure it's in every angler's best interest to sacrifice a few multi-fish days to keep mortality rate down.
Are there stocks of concern in the Chilliwack River that are present in the system, which may harmed by bait users? Wild winter steelhead? The answer may sit in the difference of regulations between January/March and April/May.
Should bait be banned because it is too easy? Should flyfishing be banned in lakes because seasoned flyfishermen are able to connect with dozens of trout while a kid sitting on lake shore and dangling a worm in the water may only get one?
Fish the way you wish to fish within the regulations, leave the management of the resource to those who have the first hand knowledge and data of the ecology of a system. If you have a problem with the decision of the managers, get involved by consulting with them. Coming onto a discussion forum and trying to convince those who are out there for the same reason as yours to fish the way you do, it doesn't work so well.
You are right Rodney. And here I thought that only hunters keep at each other for the different ways they hunt. You know, rifle hunters bash bow hunter and bow hunters bash crossbow hunters. Now I see in fishing it is the same.
We spend to much time in trying to establish what divides us, we should spend just as much time to find all the things that unite us, namely that we are all fishers and have had someone in our lives showing us the great way into the outdoors. We all have really much more in commen then we think. I fish mainly with spining gear for trout but I also want to learn the other ways to fish including fly fishing and using different baits and lures for as long it is within the frame of the law it is alright. Besides, the more different ways I have to catch fish the better my chances are. It is the same in hunting, I hunt all styles and with all weapons. I want to do the same in fishing.
Any teachers out there!
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Well said Rodney,
I for one think it's a matter of personal ethics. If your method of fishing is within the regs , people should stop whining.
If you don't like what's in the regs do something to get it changed.
For me personally, I see fishing with roe as totally wrong. I consider it chumming, kinda like cheating. Roe catches fish for sure but many times fish die once released depending where it was hooked. I like to challenge myself a little more and have no problem tossing lures, drifting wool or chucking flies.
Even though I am against fishing with roe I have to respect other peoples use of it because it is allowed in certain areas. Just don't let me catch you slitting that Chum or Spring open, take the berries and leave the fish to go to waste.
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Well said 4x4, i'm sure this has been and will continue to be an ongoing topic of debate. As you said respect and not wanton slaughter of fish is what I'm sure all readers of this forum are about.
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HI.............. My name is Rick...... and ... I .... am a Bait Fisherman ........ I have been for years now... there I said it.... :'( :'( my girlfriend hates the smell of roe... she hates it living in our freezer.... but I can't help it......
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You are not alone Thickrick ;)
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I do as well, though I've now gone 8 days without using bait ( roe ) I have tried spinners but the urge is still there.
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P.S ,should you use the stincky stuff, remember to wipe the sterring wheel ,controls of your vehicle especialy if you've borrowed your wife's car (more economical)
banned from driving the wifes car l
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hahahaha thx for the advice..... I honestly think I would be cut off for a year if I got roe on her precious jeep !!! :-\ hahaha
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And don't rub your eyes while using roe. ::) Found out what happens the hard/blurry way last year.
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when i was a kid learning to fish i used bait, and yes you catch more using bait,so that was cool.
but to be a more technical fisherman learning allthe techniques, one must move off the basics and mature into a proficient fisherman in all aspects. Back to bait, the mortality rate I believe is far greater. How many times you figure a wild steelhead is caught on its venture up and down the Vedder River, we don't know, but it's more than once. I would say several and that stress has to take a toll on the wild stock because a fish cannot resist bait.
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when i was a kid learning to fish i used bait, and yes you catch more using bait,so that was cool.
but to be a more technical fisherman learning allthe techniques, one must move off the basics and mature into a proficient fisherman in all aspects.
Irrelevant to the regulations of fishing techniques.
Back to bait, the mortality rate I believe is far greater.
Far greater than ____? believe = theory, know = fact.
we don't know, but it's more than once.
If we don't know, how do we know it's more than once?
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just one more comment, I don't fish to catch the biggest, I don't fish to fill my punch card and I don't fish to bring home dinner. And I don't fish for bragging rights. I fish to relax and enjoy nature and have a walk-about on the river and to catch a fish is a bonus on such a lovely river. In one more comment, fishing with bait is no different than putting a salt lick out to shoot a deer. I think down south they call it chumming. Thanks for all your attention and interest in this discussion. Fish as it makes you comfortable. Wazzu.
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No matter what you do, what you say, they will alway be someone out there to go...
BLAH....BLAH...BLAH...BLAH......BLAH...BLAH....BLAH...BLAH... I am holier than thou!!!!!!!
Do whats is right within the regualtions and enjoy the moment when you see the float takes a dive and a connections is made with the headshake of a mighty steelhead........
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Chris is an exception to the rule and, yes, he does more to enhance the river than anyone else I know, which I know first hand, because as we know, he cathces wild stock to enhance the river. And don't forget the other things that he does for the good of Chilliwack.
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