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[bigblockfox]

If the creel survey is the only place they are getting their data from then we're in trouble. To just assume that once a hatchery steelhead is caught and released its automatically going to spawn with wild fish is naive in my opinion. Fish can bite more than once. How reliable is the data from the creel survey anyway. 

From the article that bc fishing journal posted

The visual observation is close enough to see any present adipose fins on the fish in Centennial Channel. In this location they have never observed a clipped Steelhead (hatchery Steelhead).

To say it's not being utilized to me is not accurate.  300 to 400 anglers were out on boxing day for 6 hatchery fish. The Vedder is probably the most fished river in the province when it comes to winter steelhead.

Why are hatchery steelhead such a nuisance on the Vedder. Why are they not allowing hatchery retention on other rivers in the region and the ones that are upping retention to 2.

[avid angler]

What river in the region has a hatchery program that doesn’t allow retention?

[Rodney]

What river in the region has a hatchery program that doesn’t allow retention?

Squamish, Seymour, Capilano.

[bkk]

No hatchery steelhead program on the Squamish since the 2005 - 2006 brood years that dealt with the Caustic Soda spill on the Cheakamus. Only steelhead program before that ended in the early 90's and that was a fry program.

[jackster]

What river in the region has a hatchery program that doesn’t allow retention?

You need to get around more, and leave the snakes alone.

[avid angler]

😘

[Rodney]

No hatchery steelhead program on the Squamish since the 2005 - 2006 brood years that dealt with the Caustic Soda spill on the Cheakamus. Only steelhead program before that ended in the early 90's and that was a fry program.

Thanks B, I kept forget that program was only for a couple of years...

So what would be the point for the province to propose changing the zero retention to 2 hatchery a day for the Squamish? That would just confuse a lot of people I think...

https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/ashlu-creek-cheakamus-river-elaho-river-mamquam-river-squamish-river-steelhead-quota-change

[firebird]

Thanks B, I kept forget that program was only for a couple of years...

So what would be the point for the province to propose changing the zero retention to 2 hatchery a day for the Squamish? That would just confuse a lot of people I think...

https://apps.nrs.gov.bc.ca/ahte/content/ashlu-creek-cheakamus-river-elaho-river-mamquam-river-squamish-river-steelhead-quota-change

Rodney, the proposed change would remove the "release all steelhead" regulation which was applied specifically to the Squamish rivers following the caustic soda spill. For these streams, this would effectively revert to the regional daily quota for steelhead (2 hatchery steelhead over 50cm allowed). Note that there would be no water-specific regulation specifying a quota of 2 hatchery steelhead on the Squamish streams - the quota would apply by default.

Thus the quota on the Squamish streams would be the same as the quota on all other wild steelhead streams in the region. This allows anglers to retain stray hatchery steelhead that they catch in systems that don't have stocking programs. For example, anglers who catch a steelhead with a healed scar in place of the adipose fin can retain that fish in Norrish Creek, Coquitlam River, Indian River etc.

A concern often raised about this is that it would result in increased killing of wild steelhead due to misidentification of hatchery fish. The regional daily quota has been in place for a long time and I have yet to hear of a case of an angler killing a wild steelhead that was thought to be a hatchery steelhead.

Given the increasing awareness of potential harmful genetic and ecological interactions between wild and hatchery steelhead, anglers are encouraged to retain stray hatchery steelhead. When there is any doubt as to the identification of a hatchery stray, the fish should be released.

[bigblockfox]

so it sounds like this is going to be a province wide regulation change? not just the chilliwack and the chehalis if i am reading this right

[Silex-user]

Just make it a mandatory retention of all hatchery steelheads on Vedder-Chilliwack system. Hopefully, the angler who catch a hatchery steelhead honor this system.

Just suggestion.


Silex-user

[Every Day]

If the creel survey is the only place they are getting their data from then we're in trouble. To just assume that once a hatchery steelhead is caught and released its automatically going to spawn with wild fish is naive in my opinion. Fish can bite more than once. How reliable is the data from the creel survey anyway. 

How else, exactly, do you propose we get catch data. Catch cards often don't get filled out and mailed in. Would you like them to install high definition cameras that can zoom in enough to tell if the fish you just released is hatchery vs wild? Let's get real here. 90% of the people aren't going to lie to a creel surveyor, and even if they (creel) only talk/ witness a small subset of anglers each day, trends like the release of 50% or more of hatchery are still relevant.

The visual observation is close enough to see any present adipose fins on the fish in Centennial Channel. In this location they have never observed a clipped Steelhead (hatchery Steelhead).

I think the point you're missing here is that two hatchery fish could spawn near Borden creek this year. They spread their genetics to their offspring (and there are a number of studies that show genetic changes from just 1 hatchery rearing relating to higher metabolism, lower predator avoidance, etc). Those offspring with altered genetics now appear "wild" and could easily pair up with wild fish down the road. Up until the last few years the genetic influence of hatcheries was poorly understood. With the new research coming out, biologists are taking it seriously and want all the hatchery fish removed.

To say it's not being utilized to me is not accurate.  300 to 400 anglers were out on boxing day for 6 hatchery fish. The Vedder is probably the most fished river in the province when it comes to winter steelhead.

1 day of the year, on the most prestigious derby day, is not an indication of utilization. Sure, anglers might kill a majority of their hatchery fish in December, but come January when multi fish days are achieved often in a number of cases, guys let hatchery fish go all the time. People want to keep fishing, so they let them go.

Lastly, in regards to the no retention of hatchery in the Seymour and Capilano... those fish lost most of/all of their habitat and were/are at extreme risk of extirpation. In those cases, mixed genetics are better than none at all.

[Every Day]

so it sounds like this is going to be a province wide regulation change? not just the chilliwack and the chehalis if i am reading this right

Please refer to the regulations. There has always been a 2 per day steelhead retention in region 2 (and region 1) - that's how you are able to kill your one on the Vedder and go fish elsewhere for the day. It's only a limit of 1 if it's specifically mentioned in the table for a particular river.

[Every Day]

I'll say it one last time for those of you reading who care to listen. Rejecting this change would be a huge mistake.

If the biologists deem that hatchery fish are being released, and that you're unwilling to make a change that could increase retention, they can make recommendations to cut or reduce the program further. 

It happened on the Cowichan. The last 2 years on the island another 2 of the last 3 remaining hatchery programs have been cut. Chehalis summers cut. Something to think about...

[fishman1]

My initial reaction to the regulation changes was no to the limit increase and a begrudging yes to the closure above Tamahi.  I feel anglers are losing more and more opportunities these days but if it the closure truly helps wild steelhead then that is not a bad thing at all.  They need all the help we can give them.  I have since come around on the limit increase and would support this change.  Everyday had a good point if the hatchery steelhead resource is not utilized enough then it may be reduced further even removed completely.  If the government wants the hatchery steelhead retained then the 2/day limit would help that.  I know I would like to keep fishing after the first hatchery fish.  This change would keep people on the river longer but I'd rather keep the resource (hatchery) than loose it. 


Anyway my 2 cents.

Tight lines

[Rodney]

Rodney, the proposed change would remove the "release all steelhead" regulation which was applied specifically to the Squamish rivers following the caustic soda spill. For these streams, this would effectively revert to the regional daily quota for steelhead (2 hatchery steelhead over 50cm allowed). Note that there would be no water-specific regulation specifying a quota of 2 hatchery steelhead on the Squamish streams - the quota would apply by default.

Thus the quota on the Squamish streams would be the same as the quota on all other wild steelhead streams in the region. This allows anglers to retain stray hatchery steelhead that they catch in systems that don't have stocking programs. For example, anglers who catch a steelhead with a healed scar in place of the adipose fin can retain that fish in Norrish Creek, Coquitlam River, Indian River etc.

A concern often raised about this is that it would result in increased killing of wild steelhead due to misidentification of hatchery fish. The regional daily quota has been in place for a long time and I have yet to hear of a case of an angler killing a wild steelhead that was thought to be a hatchery steelhead.

Given the increasing awareness of potential harmful genetic and ecological interactions between wild and hatchery steelhead, anglers are encouraged to retain stray hatchery steelhead. When there is any doubt as to the identification of a hatchery stray, the fish should be released.

Thanks Mike, I just wasn't sure what the objective is. Having strayed hatchery fish removed is certainly a good thing, I just don't like it may give anglers the wrong impression that there is a ongoing hatchery program there. It may be very beneficial to have what you stated above about strayed hatchery steelhead, actually published in the regulations, and regularly reminded on social media.

Back to the Vedder, if the frequency of hatchery fish releases by anglers is in fact as high as what the creel surveys have determined and a significant number of hatchery fish are ending up on the redds instead of being retained, yes it would make sense to change the daily quota from 1 to 2 so it aligns with the regional quota. A change like this would actually benefit those (guides) who drift the river. How it'd influence anglers' behaviours in the lower river, difficult to say. Realistically, how many hatchery fish are being retained per day during the peak season? a couple dozens? So we are talking about a couple dozen more anglers possibly continuing fishing instead of heading home, which probably wouldn't make much of a difference. In some scenarios it would definitely impact angling quality. We've all seen fish bunched up at several key locations in the lower and it takes no time for pressure to increase throughout a hot day. With two fish per day being implemented, you'd just put even more pressure on those runs.

If the whole goal is just to "eradicate" hatchery fish, rather than using the program to enhance angling quality (which isn't always measured by how many you catch/keep in a day), I wonder why there is even a need for a hatchery program then. You'd put 60 extra wild spawners in the river, protecting key spawning area by closing the upper river after March 31st, which should result in a much better return right? Or maybe I shouldn't go there....