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Author Topic: The HST vote - making a decision  (Read 125044 times)

Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #360 on: July 28, 2011, 07:24:27 AM »

Another person on the common sense side.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:28:20 AM by Novabonker »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #361 on: July 28, 2011, 08:00:20 AM »

Thanks for posting something related to the HST, Nicole! It's good to see someone is thinking through the effects of the HST, as opposed to the political biases we have been reading over the last number of posts.

At this stage whether you and I agree or disagree with HST doesn't matter much as I believe most have cast their ballots. There are a couple points that I have made before and bare repeating.

1. The HST does transfer some tax cost from business to the consumer. This allows BC business to compete with businesses outside of the province. The tradeoff/benefit to the consumer is that as a result of having an employer that is competitive, they get to keep their job! As the businesses expand new jobs get created.

2. When a government needs additional revenue they always raise taxes. A consumption tax like the HST if far better for the economy and far fairer for individuals than income tax. Income tax  penalizes the hard worker/risk taker. BC has the second lower income tax rate in Canada.

3. HST is better than PST in that it eliminates paying tax on top of tax. That is good for business and is good for the consumer.

4. All of the newly taxed items that you listed were subject to the 5% GST. Now with the HST they are subject to the 7% PST portion of the HST. For the average person this makes up 20% of the items they spend money on. When the HST is reduced to 10% the over all consumption tax bill for all consumers will be lower in spite of the additional items carrying a higher tax rate.

5. I do not share your opposition to expanding oil and gas exploration in BC. While I do not like the environmental impact these businesses have on our landscape I am realistic enough to realize that we can't have great social services, and low taxes unless we attract new businesses to the province. While HST does make it more attractive for businesses to invest in the province, the businesses bring investment dollars, jobs and new tax revenue to the province.

6. Businesses that benefit from the HST pass most of those savings to the consumer and those that can get away with not passing the saving on to the consumer, end up paying more income tax on their higher profit.

Which ever way the HST vote goes, we will learn to live with it. I am in support of the HST because I believe it will position BC to be a better place for my children and grandchildren to make a living. As a hunter and fisherman I think that industry will strike a balance between developing our natural resources and preserving the environment. The fact is we need the revenue from those resouces.
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Nicole

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #362 on: July 28, 2011, 06:20:13 PM »

From what I've been hearing, the BC government has already taken in 700 million dollars with the new tax, which is interesting considering we've only received 900 million dollars from the feds so far... It's quite the windfall!

There are threats that we'll have to pay back 1.6 billion if we vote it out, but this is not true at all.

We'll only have to pay back 900 million, as the balance is to be paid out next year so we would simply not receive it.

So we should be no further behind as far as what we 'owe' if we've already taken in 700 million... I am sure will be neutral by October if the rate of intake remains consistent.

Just my two cents, it's a very worthy discussion and thanks allwaysfishin for keeping the debate on the facts -

Cheers,
Nicole

PS> I don't want to bring the Neo-Liberals into the debate as it's unrelated to the topic at hand - but here is an interesting read about how Campbell has run our economy into the ground (the 9% interest rate on those new ferry builds is quite shocking, apparently the corp's finances are completely messed now and they don't even take in enough revenue to finance their debt):  http://powellriverpersuader.blogspot.com/2011/05/art-of-distraction-bc-liberal-and-bc.html
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Sandman

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #363 on: July 28, 2011, 07:05:07 PM »

. . .While I do not like the environmental impact these businesses have on our landscape I am realistic enough to realize that we can't have great social services, and low taxes unless we attract new businesses to the province . . . As a hunter and fisherman I think that industry will strike a balance between developing our natural resources and preserving the environment. The fact is we need the revenue from those resources.

Very optimistic AF, however, I think what this province, and country as a whole, needs is more value added industries, not just more resource extraction companies pillaging the environment as they take our resources out of the country to manufacture into more expensive goods that they can sell back to us.  If the HST is going to give us THAT, then I am all over it. More investment is needed in alternative energy and recycling of metals, not more oil, gas, and mineral exploration.  Canada is currently the only G7 nation going in reverse with carbon reductions.  Encouraging more mineral resource extraction companies is not going to help turn that trend around.  It is time we start abandoning the philosophy that economics is the primary driving force in our lives and embrace the reality that the environment is the foundation upon which economic development takes place.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #364 on: July 28, 2011, 07:33:32 PM »

Very optimistic AF, however, I think what this province, and country as a whole, needs is more value added industries, not just more resource extraction companies pillaging the environment as they take our resources out of the country to manufacture into more expensive goods that they can sell back to us.  If the HST is going to give us THAT, then I am all over it. More investment is needed in alternative energy and recycling of metals, not more oil, gas, and mineral exploration.  Canada is currently the only G7 nation going in reverse with carbon reductions.  Encouraging more mineral resource extraction companies is not going to help turn that trend around.  It is time we start abandoning the philosophy that economics is the primary driving force in our lives and embrace the reality that the environment is the foundation upon which economic development takes place.

I have no idea what the last part of your statement means but without economics as the driving force we become a 3rd world country. That being said I'd be content having some acreage and living off the land, but I'd be surprised if 1% of the population would be interested in that lifestyle. When you have 99% of the population wanting bigger, better and faster the only way they will get that is by taking advantage of every resource available.

Alberta is often looked at a utopia where all they pay is 5% GST, and the lowest income taxes in Canada. Their highways are the best in Canada. The secret to their success......  gas and oil!

Convince 99% of BC's population that they should pay higher taxes and they'll support your idea to stop pillaging the environment to get at the resources.... :)
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alwaysfishn

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #365 on: July 28, 2011, 07:38:47 PM »

From what I've been hearing, the BC government has already taken in 700 million dollars with the new tax, which is interesting considering we've only received 900 million dollars from the feds so far... It's quite the windfall!

There are threats that we'll have to pay back 1.6 billion if we vote it out, but this is not true at all.

We'll only have to pay back 900 million, as the balance is to be paid out next year so we would simply not receive it.

So we should be no further behind as far as what we 'owe' if we've already taken in 700 million... I am sure will be neutral by October if the rate of intake remains consistent.

Just my two cents, it's a very worthy discussion and thanks allwaysfishin for keeping the debate on the facts -

Cheers,
Nicole


I don't know all the accounting on the HST and I am hesitant to believe the anti-HST's accounting on the tax. My support for the HST is based on the logic that when our businesses can produce a more competitive product (no imbedded PST), they will sell more, grow and create more jobs in BC.  This is good for BC
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Sandman

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #366 on: July 28, 2011, 07:45:17 PM »

I have no idea what the last part of your statement means but without economics as the driving force we become a 3rd world country. That being said I'd be content having some acreage and living off the land, but I'd be surprised if 1% of the population would be interested in that lifestyle. When you have 99% of the population wanting bigger, better and faster the only way they will get that is by taking advantage of every resource available.

Alberta is often looked at a utopia where all they pay is 5% GST, and the lowest income taxes in Canada. Their highways are the best in Canada. The secret to their success......  gas and oil!

Convince 99% of BC's population that they should pay higher taxes and they'll support your idea to stop pillaging the environment to get at the resources.... :)

You said it.  But don't worry, you are not alone.  Most Free enterprisers like yourself do not understand it (or choose to ignore it).  That is the problem with the world today.  The sooner you folks figure it out, the better our chances of surviving your ignorance.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:48:49 PM by Sandman »
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Sandman

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #367 on: July 28, 2011, 08:00:39 PM »

When you have 99% of the population wanting bigger, better and faster the only way they will get that is by taking advantage of every resource available.

So because 99% of the population wants it, you (free enterpriser that you are) might as well give it to them even if it means using every available resource.  So forget about future generations...what do you owe them right AF?

Quote
Alberta is often looked at a utopia where all they pay is 5% GST, and the lowest income taxes in Canada. Their highways are the best in Canada. The secret to their success......  gas and oil!

Again, if they can get rich pillaging the environment, why not in BC to?  It is only fair, right?  Wow these are stellar arguments, AF.

Quote
Convince 99% of BC's population that they should pay higher taxes and they'll support your idea to stop pillaging the environment to get at the resources.... :)

I love how shifting from carbon producing economies to green economies are equated to tax hikes.  Nice scare tactics, AF.

To borrow from the Green Vision:

Quote
This generation has the potential to capitalize on the single biggest business opportunity in human history – the shift to a low-carbon economy. Whether this is driven by the need to end the recession through economic stimulus, high energy prices, dwindling oil supplies, strategic geopolitical threats to foreign oil, the climate crisis or all of them combined, the country that mobilizes resources to develop and commercialize low-carbon technologies (e.g. alternate fuels, renewable energy and energy efficiency) will survive the price shocks of fossil fuel’s last gasps and emerge with a thriving economy. Canada should be that country.
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troutbreath

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #368 on: July 28, 2011, 08:07:19 PM »

quote from the cheerleader of no future.
"When you have 99% of the population wanting bigger, better and faster the only way they will get that is by taking advantage of every resource available. "

Total race to the bottom. Promoting those economics sure looks questionable. That's why economists should try to review the crap their taught.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 08:09:01 PM by troutbreath »
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Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #369 on: July 29, 2011, 06:16:45 AM »

You said it.  But don't worry, you are not alone.  Most Free enterprisers like yourself do not understand it (or choose to ignore it).  That is the problem with the world today.  The sooner you folks figure it out, the better our chances of surviving your ignorance.

Not all entrepreneurs are captivated by the shiny toy. Some, like myself, aren't governed entirely by pig trough greed and heartless plundering of others to achieve personal wealth.
Alberta? Utopia? I can't stop laughing at that comment.

 
as opposed to the political biases we have been reading over the last number of posts.

Um, take a look at who authored the "Independent study" and tell me there was no political bias AF- try again, as the liberals are one more time splattered with the contents. Too political? Now that's funny!


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-politics/firms-with-bc-liberal-ties-awarded-secret-contracts-in-pro-hst-campaign/article2109375/

Internal government guidelines would normally have required those contracts to be awarded via a competitive process because they’re valued at $25,000 or more. But the guidelines allow that process to be circumvented – and contracts awarded without public notice – if it would “compromise government confidentiality.”

Finance Ministry communications director Matt Gordon said that justification was used because the “information, strategies and discussions” disclosed during such a competition would have been of a “privileged” nature. The government was also worried anti-HST forces could gum up a bidding process and delay the start of those contracts.

Campaign Research Ltd., which worked on cabinet minister George Abbott’s unsuccessful campaign for the Liberal leadership, got the biggest contract – receiving $167,800 for conducting the government’s telephone town-hall meetings on the HST.

The company didn’t respond Monday to a request for comment. Mr. Gordon said Campaign Research wasn’t given that work because of its Liberal connection, but rather because it provided the best value out of three quotes privately solicited by the government.

Another $52,746.75 went to Backbone Technology Inc. to develop the province’s HST information website. Backbone has worked for the Liberals since 2001, setting up a private intranet for the party executive, as well as the Liberal website.

Company president and chief executive officer Marc Charalambous acknowledged those Liberal links, and confirmed that party information director Hoong Neoh provides advice to Backbone on an informal, volunteer basis.

But Mr. Gordon said it was the company’s “good reputation” for delivering high-profile government projects on time – including websites for reviews on health care and postsecondary education – that got it the contract.

“I was called to look at doing this in a short timeline – which is typically the kinds of work we’ve done for the government. We’ve done quite a few projects over the last five or six years under such an environment,” added Mr. Charalambous.

The third contract went to Mr. Andrew, who says he was initially hired to provide “political analysis” to Tom Syer, the head of the HST information office. The contract was initially set at $17,700, but its value was later raised and it has paid out more than $33,000.

Mr. Syer, who served as a deputy chief of staff to former premier Gordon Campbell, later asked Mr. Andrew to help the independent panel. That included organizing its meetings and assisting its chair, Jim Dinning – Alberta’s former provincial treasurer – in preparing the agendas.

Mr. Andrew stressed he personally felt it was “very important” he not provide the panel with any kind of political analysis, given his connection to former finance minister Colin Hansen.

“I did not do so. Jim would not have allowed me to do so. Let me assure you that I was kicked out of the room whenever discussions on contentious issues were being had. It was purely logistical.”

Records obtained by The Globe and Mail also show the HST information office directly awarded additional contracts worth up to $163,810 on behalf of the independent panel.

Michael Goehring, vice-president of National Public Relations Inc., received a contract worth up to $4,000 to confidentially ensure the report was plainly written and contained no omissions, while former Vancouver Sun Victoria correspondent Miro Cernetig got one worth up to $37,500 to research, review and produce that document.

Kirk and Co. Consulting Ltd. – the communications firm headed by Judy Kirk, who served as the Liberal caucus’s executive director between 1994 and 1996 – was also given a contract worth up to $25,000 to provide the panel with media and public-relations advice.

Mr. Gordon said it was Ms. Kirk’s reputation not her political background that resulted in the award.

And still more stench.......
http://lailayuile.com/2011/07/28/surely-this-must-be-a-violation-of-the-elections-act/

Dear Friends:As we enter the final days before voting ends on the HST referendum I wanted to take this opportunity to update you on the status of our effort on the ‘NO’ side to keep the HST. Our efforts to engage with British Columbians and get their input into how to improve the HST are paying dividends. Since announcing the reduction of the HST to 10 per cent and ensure families come out ahead, we have closed the margins significantly and we are within reach of a slim victory. In fact, some polling suggests we are in a statistical tie when you factor in the margin of error. With a race as close as this has become, I am asking that each and every one of you commit to a final push in your riding to try and identify every last possible vote and move us across the goal posts to deliver a victory for British Columbians.It’s undeniable that implementing the HST has caused us some political pain but the fact remains we can, and will, get past this difficult issue and get back to what we should be focused on – building support for the only truly free enterprise party in BC and providing British Columbians with strong, effective governance and leadership.

With a victory within our grasp, I am asking all of you to spend as much time as possible focused on getting the vote out in your community to ensure British Columbians are returning their ballots and marking them with a ‘NO’ to higher taxes and a 12 per cent PST plus GST.

Ballot packages must be received by Elections BC, a Service BC Centre, or an Elections BC Collection Centre before 4:30 pm, Friday, August 5, 2011.

British Columbians need this victory for a strong economic future. We are close and I’m convinced a final push by us all will be enough to secure the win and help get the province back on track.

Regards and good luck,

Hon. Kevin Falcon
Minister of Finance
Authorized By Jim Pipe, Financial Agent BC Liberal Party.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 07:30:18 AM by Novabonker »
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marmot

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #370 on: July 29, 2011, 10:04:25 AM »

I work in the film industry.  The HST is VERY GOOD for the film industry, and good for my wallet as a result.  If my job or job security was more important to me than everything wrong about the hst (partially summed up by Nicole, thank you...) then I'd have to vote "No".  Fortunately, it's not.  I'll be voting "yes" to ditch it, mostly because I believe that the HST favors people who do not need tax breaks while the people that need every little bit of change they have get the short end of the stick.  Basically, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer....not a healthy trend and not the kind of values I will ever support, no matter the costs to me personally.
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blaydRnr

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #371 on: July 29, 2011, 12:10:05 PM »

I don't know all the accounting on the HST and I am hesitant to believe the anti-HST's accounting on the tax.

that's the problem with taxes...there are no public information access on how our tax dollars are being spent...all we have to go on is what we hear about in the news...so with that said, I base my decision on History not political rhetoric and empty promises.

Quote from: alwaysfishn link=topic=26106.msg259184#msg259184=1311907127
My support for the HST is based on the logic that when our businesses can produce a more competitive product (no imbedded PST), they will sell more, grow and create more jobs in BC.  This is good for BC

i say we need to invest in innovation rather than rely on our depleting resources.

 
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skaha

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #372 on: July 29, 2011, 07:46:13 PM »

I have no idea what the last part of your statement means but without economics as the driving force we become a 3rd world country. That being said I'd be content having some acreage and living off the land, but I'd be surprised if 1% of the population would be interested in that lifestyle. When you have 99% of the population wanting bigger, better and faster the only way they will get that is by taking advantage of every resource available.

Alberta is often looked at a utopia where all they pay is 5% GST, and the lowest income taxes in Canada. Their highways are the best in Canada. The secret to their success......  gas and oil!

Convince 99% of BC's population that they should pay higher taxes and they'll support your idea to stop pillaging the environment to get at the resources.... :)


--I think they only have one flat lander highway and it didn't cost as much per KM as the one's in BC



--
-I think its called HST like I said before its all in how they spend it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 07:48:45 PM by skaha »
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Novabonker

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #373 on: August 06, 2011, 06:11:46 AM »

It's all over now except the tears.
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joska

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Re: The HST vote - making a decision
« Reply #374 on: August 06, 2011, 09:03:16 AM »

Pls delete - thought I was on my account!
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