Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ssypark on March 30, 2012, 12:33:19 AM
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Hey all,
I'd like to first introduce myself. I am a Korean-Canadian angler and I have been fishing in the Lower Mainland ever since I was 5 years old. The last two times I've been at the Vedder River, I've experienced hatred/racism by other caucasian anglers (why is it always center-pinners?). I've been called a "f***in ch*nk" once and was told to "do my f***in homework" at another incident when I asked a simple question about regulations to an angler nearby. I understand a lot of you have seen or experienced asian anglers at the river that have ZERO respect for the water as well as the regulations. But I would appreciate it if some of you would not have such ignorant minds and make such quick judgements. It doesn't hurt to be helpful or be critical in a positive way. I am posting this to bring awareness to this cause. I feel that many other anglers (not only asian) would appreciate your advice, and your respect as we all are out there to enjoy the same sport.
Thanks for your time.
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It's plain ignorance plain and simple. Lack of respect for our natural resources is not restricted to one ethnic group. I've seen Caucasians, Asians, Aboriginals, eastern Europeans etc not abiding by the regulations. Heck I've even experienced fishermen yanking their lines when they think nobody is looking.
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I guess I just have selective memory. All the fisherfolks I've come across while fishing my first year in BC and Washington have been friendly and helpful. No doubt there are douches out there, and maybe I've come across them, but I'd just as soon try to to forget it ever happened so as not to taint my experience in the future.
One thing I've learned is that people think the way to they want to think, see what they want to see and it's not worth the energy or my job to change that.
Just catch more fish than them.... and bear spray doesn't just work on bears... just kidding :)
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Ssypark welcome to earth !
It is full of people that will choose to either love or do evil.
Victims as I post.
Little children taken as sex slaves in various parts of the world, that lady who had acid thrown in her face ,took her life yesterday , innocent children & women killed in Syria the list is endless of what people think "SAY" & do to others.
As for any race of people ,we are EQUAL in worth.
But people of every race have a choice "love or hate"
People that do evil actually "do not even love themselves " so no wonder they cannot love others.
You can only control how you act.
Be wisely friend because "some" will act friendly but who are really evil....they are trying to set ya up to take advantage of ya in some way.
Surround yourself with true friends.
You have worth equal to anyone so do not allow idiots pull ya down.
Define yourself. :)
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Ssypark - I can't speak for other people, but if you ever see me on the river, come say hi and ask all the questions you want! (I'll probably ask YOU more questions than you would me! LOL)... as for the jerks out there - consider the source and feel sorry for them - it must suck living in their world!
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It's definately those dang "Centerpinners", they are a scourge of ther river :o.
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sorry to hear that, ive watched alot of anglers be very racist to other people just because people asume alot of the time that your from the city or that you aren't going to follow the rules witch is ridiculous. Thoes type of people need to go back to school and learn respect for all anglers.. and all people for who they are not what they look like.
I hope you keep your spirits up because there are some nice anglers out there.
Any time i see an angler be ignorant I try to stick my neck out and settle the peace as non violently as posible.... not always lucky.
There will be a day where ignorance is a thing of the past on our shores as long as we look at eachother as anglers alike.
I hope you have a better visit to the vedder river the next time you go. If you ever wanted to fish with someone respectful you could always send me a PM. always could use some company chasing that steel.
tight lines
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Salmon pirate the voice of reason!
Ya maybe didn't deserve the racial slurs but ya must of done Something to draw the attention
My 2 cents
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Hey all,
I'd like to first introduce myself. I am a Korean-Canadian angler and I have been fishing in the Lower Mainland ever since I was 5 years old. The last two times I've been at the Vedder River, I've experienced hatred/racism by other caucasian anglers (why is it always center-pinners?). I've been called a "f***in ch*nk" once and was told to "do my f***in homework" at another incident when I asked a simple question about regulations to an angler nearby. I understand a lot of you have seen or experienced asian anglers at the river that have ZERO respect for the water as well as the regulations. But I would appreciate it if some of you would not have such ignorant minds and make such quick judgements. It doesn't hurt to be helpful or be critical in a positive way. I am posting this to bring awareness to this cause. I feel that many other anglers (not only asian) would appreciate your advice, and your respect as we all are out there to enjoy the same sport.
Thanks for your time.
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience.
I would advise that if some white racist throws racial slurs and four letter words at you don't let it pass.
Let him know you are upset.
Too often Asians shy away from confrontation and makes them easy targets for racist bullies on the river.
If the racist bully becomes pissed off and beats you up, you can always press charges under our hate crime laws.
Last I checked, 42% of Greater Vancouver Area population is visible minorities and there is no place for this kind of bull**** in the lower mainland at least.
Also, check up on your river etiquette.
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Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience.
I would advise that if some white racist throws racial slurs and four letter words at you don't let it pass.
Throw back your own four letter words and slurs to let him know you are upset.
Too often Asians shy away from confrontation and makes them easy targets for racist bullies on the river.
If the racist bully becomes pissed off and beats you up, you can always press charges under our hate crime laws.
Really? This is your advice? I really hope you're being sarcastic! LOL
I'm all for standing up for yourself, but the method recommended above is NOT the way to go about it, IMO. Swear back at them? Be racist in return? Sounds like a great way to escalate a situation rather than resolve it.
Use your own best judgement in these cases. Maybe you brought on some of the confrontations yourself, maybe you were innocent in the whole thing, I'm not going to be the judge or jury on that as i wasn't there. At the end of the day, make sure you can look at yourself in the mirror and be comfortable with the decisions you made, and that's all that matters, as far as I'm concerned.
Good luck out there.
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Really? This is your advice? I really hope you're being sarcastic! LOL
I'm all for standing up for yourself, but the method recommended above is NOT the way to go about it, IMO.
So what is your recommendation then?
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So what is your recommendation then?
How about some age old wisdom....
2 wrongs don't make a right.
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So what is your recommendation then?
It certainly isn't dropping immediately to their level by being racist in return or trying to start a fight.
If someone came at me with racial slurs or anger, I would:
1) consider the circumstances... did I do something stupid to ignite their anger somehow? If yes, then maybe I should back off. If not, then move on to #2...
2) take stock of the situation... is confronting them an immeidately dangerous thing to do? If yes, then maybe I should back off. If not, then move on to #3...
3) confront them with a level head... showing them you're angry is ok. being aggressive is not. After that, it's up to you.
I personally wouldn't start slinging slurs back at them, that's a quick way to start a fight, and that rarely ends well. I'm all for defending yourself (by force, if necessary), but I avoid that stage if possible.
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It certainly isn't dropping immediately to their level by being racist in return or trying to start a fight.
If someone came at me with racial slurs or anger, I would:
1) consider the circumstances... did I do something stupid to ignite their anger somehow? If yes, then maybe I should back off. If not, then move on to #2...
2) take stock of the situation... is confronting them an immeidately dangerous thing to do? If yes, then maybe I should back off. If not, then move on to #3...
3) confront them with a level head... showing them you're angry is ok. being aggressive is not. After that, it's up to you.
I personally wouldn't start slinging slurs back at them, that's a quick way to start a fight, and that rarely ends well. I'm all for defending yourself (by force, if necessary), but I avoid that stage if possible.
Good advice Tex.
I would like to clarify that the intent of my post was not to encourage "starting a fight" or "being racist in turn", but that in this country a visible minority person does not have to endure racial slurs and insults in silence any more.
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Good advice Tex.
I would like to clarify that the intent of my post was not to encourage "starting a fight" or "being racist in turn", but that in this country a visible minority person does not have to endure racial slurs and insults in silence any more.
On that point we can certainly agree! :)
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Maybe you should get a " keep yelling I'm reloading" sticker for the back of your jacket ;)
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during steelhead season i get sick and tired of this. During salmon season i stop bothering trying to show people the proper ways to fish as it usually blows up in your face and you get blamed for someone elses mistakes. Honestly it was hardest to get my dad to start using a float it was like pulling teeth gave up a few times but now he uses a float all the time. Im out their to have a good time and will fish with anyone beside me. we are out their to have fun to escape the stresses of the week and maybe catch a few fish.
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I have the same problem with "Coffee grinder guys" they think they own the river... What was the simple question regarding regulations that you asked?
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22212.0
pretty similar thread from a while ago.
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Try talking to people when you arrive at a fishing spot.
You will instantly either find out if you have met someone out for a good time, or one who is squeezing the sawdust out of their rods trying to get a fish.
Unfortunately people make wrong first impressions, based on preconceived ideas. Avoid the later if they don't look like they are going to be any fun to fish around.
That being said, you commited you're own injustice by painting center-pinners as such. I own a center pin but i'll get over it ;D
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I have the same problem with "Coffee grinder guys" they think they own the river... What was the simple question regarding regulations that you asked?
I have the same problem with people who think they own a stretch of the river... ;)
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To be answered with the F word & also a slang name "chink" is really mean.
Sadly if ya answered them back they may of gotten more aggressive verbally & physically.
These types do not sleep well UNLESS they try to wreck another person's day.
Once at a launch a boat came in & guys in the boat were just acting up ,swearing etc...
Ya just got a feeling that they were under an influence of "evil".
Then in full view of senior couples & various aged bystanders they took a piss right off the dock in full view of everyone.
Some know how to act in public & be friendly & others just have a "chip on their shoulder "
Most who are neg are those who make daily evil choses. Drugs,lying,stealing etc...including being nasty when asked a simple friendly question at the Vedder.
Read up on Danny Chen. He went into the USA military to serve his country ,only to be picked on by some fellow soldiers.
Danny either killed himself (Found shot at his guard post but many are saying possibly he was murdered)
:o. Imagine how his parents feel. They are heart broken. Their only child. After the army Danny wante to become a NY police officer.
Then we read about Jeromy Lin who is devout believer in God / Harvard graduate who is now a star player on the NY Knicks basketball team who has a great fan following.
One sports writer guy did mention a racial comment in his report & the guy lost his job !!!!!
As it turns out Lin met with the fired reporter & they had a friendly meeting.
Lin just took the approach to forgive the guy.
Mind you the reporter was "sorry for what happened"
A few "whites" here in Richmond who told me they are moving because of too many asian folks.
That is not my view.
Just forgive those guys & just go on & live your life.
If ya keep anger or hurt feelings inside it will only harm you.
The punishment for guys like this is "they have to look at themselves in the mirror every AM"
That must be "painful". ;D
Good part is maybe they will see the error of their ways & become better people in the future.
We all can change. It is free will & a decision each & every moment of the "present".
Past is gone & future not here yet.
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should've called them crackers :D
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Racial slurs are usually thrown out because of one's appearance, not one's action. Thankfully, in my opinion, it rarely occurs in Canada. I'm basing that on my experience on living both here and in Australia. Vancouver has been a city filled with tolerance, appreciation and understanding, but it's difficult to say how it will be now that its cultural dynamic is shifting quite rapidly.
Ssypark, too bad about your experience. It only takes once to ruin all the trips. My suggestions are similar to Tex's. If it is indeed something that you have done, then simply apologize and move on. If it is a case of you being stereotyped, just ignore the remarks and move on. Those who think that way will have a hard time to be convinced anyway due to a lack of empathy. The ones who try to make others feel bad are usually unhappy and will remain so unless they change. I take comfort that 99.9% of the population accept and respect everyone around them while the 0.01% will never have the opportunity to enjoy pho, dim sum and sushi. Trying to confront and escalate the situation will never end well for both parties. The quality of your trip (or just life in general) is always determined by your judgement and the decisions that you make. The ones who choose to look for trouble will always wonder why they seem to end up in unlucky situations all the time.
People should also not stereotype others based on the way they fish. An angler with a centerpin or spey outfit should not look down on others. An angler starting out with a spinning outfit should be aware of his or her action to avoid disturbance of other anglers. Everyone has to start from somewhere and in a fishery that is accessible by anyone with a licence, people should expect to encounter anglers at all skill levels and act accordingly to avoid confrontation. Experienced anglers should also not give youngsters a hard time for the same mistakes that you probably also made many years ago. Use your wisdom to nurture them instead of bullying them. A few members on this forum can use this advice.
Nina and I had probably the most unpleasant experience a couple of days ago while fishing on the Vedder. To sum up the story in short, I was verbally threatened with bodily harm because of my website while we were getting ready to leave. While the words were hateful and threatening, they were spoken awkwardly and quietly far away from us as if they were being recited from memory. After all, unless an individual has no problem with committing crime, one has to not be himself to get them out of the mouth.
I can understand that a percentage of anglers will always think this website has generated significant amount of fishing pressure for the Fraser Valley. That depends on whether or not you consider other factors such as the population growth of Metro Vancouver in the last decade. The issue is up for debate, which I always welcome and will be happy to address my opinion while listening to yours if you wish to see things run differently. The way I see it, angling pressure increase is directly correlated to Metro Vancouver's growth and the reduction in fishing opportunities due to government cutbacks. People will go fishing regardless and we are here to provide an educational resource and community, which otherwise would not exist, for those who don't know how to get started. Some feel specific "secret" spots have become more vulnerable due to this progress and those concerns are certainly valid. To hate me for what I do to the point that you wish to harm me and my family, it might be time to re-evaluate why you go fishing.
On that note, the first Chilliwack River cleanup (http://cleanrivers.ca/) of the year is on Saturday April 14th at the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve. If you wish to make Chilliwack River a more positive environment, come on out and join us (you can even catch a steelhead or two before and after the cleanup). This is a multicultural event because you'll find at least one old Caucasian guy with a Maple Leaf hat and a small Asian guy running it. ;)
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I agree with Rod (and therefore disagree with the good pirate) that the source of racial slurs does not have to be, and frequently is not, because the victim was doing something wrong. A racist does not need a reason for shouting slurs, and someone upset at another person's action is not going to respond with slurs unless they are already harbouring racist feeling toward the other person (and therefore are just waiting for an opportunity to let it fly). For the pirate to suggest that Ssypark must have done something wrong to warrant the outpouring of slurs is simply ignorant in and of itself. That is like saying a woman who is raped by her date must have lead her attacker on. A racist needs no "inciting incident" to start a conflict. Their own hatred is more than enough.
I would like to clarify that the intent of my post was not to encourage "starting a fight" or "being racist in turn", but ...
Well, whether you intended to "encourage 'starting a fight' or 'being racist in turn,'" or not, that was exactly what you did when you suggested to Ssypark, "Throw back your own four letter words and slurs to let him know you are upset." As Rod said, someone who shouts a racial slur (so everyone can hear) is so far beyond the realm of being a "reasonable" person, that any attempt to engage them is going to degenerate into violence quickly. While I am sure such a person deserves some "rough justice," I would not suggest any one dispense that rough justice on the river. The best response to that is always to "turn the other cheek" and you do not need to be a Christian to appreciate the wisdom of that advice. No good would come from responding to such an unreasonable provocation.
...Furthermore, by hurling his own racial slurs, Ssypark himself would be committing the same hate crime that you suggest he could then charge the other guy with if he was attacked.
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I'm used to being around beaks in the river. Just ignore them, you didn't wake up that day just to impress them.
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Life is too short, avoid the confrontation and just go enjoy fishing trip. ;)
Silex-user
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Hey all,
I'd like to first introduce myself. I am a Korean-Canadian angler and I have been fishing in the Lower Mainland ever since I was 5 years old. The last two times I've been at the Vedder River, I've experienced hatred/racism by other caucasian anglers (why is it always center-pinners?). I've been called a "f***in ch*nk" once and was told to "do my f***in homework" at another incident when I asked a simple question about regulations to an angler nearby. I understand a lot of you have seen or experienced asian anglers at the river that have ZERO respect for the water as well as the regulations. But I would appreciate it if some of you would not have such ignorant minds and make such quick judgements. It doesn't hurt to be helpful or be critical in a positive way. I am posting this to bring awareness to this cause. I feel that many other anglers (not only asian) would appreciate your advice, and your respect as we all are out there to enjoy the same sport.
Thanks for your time.
I had noticed this only happened when they are in a group.The next time around I will stand my ground and this is why we come in a big group.This also happened in Ontario........don't understand why they behave that way.
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Welcome to the real world, It is always like that no matter where you go, but just don't let them get to you.
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I wish I was with you when you these lowlife's said those racial slurs to you! >:(
Ignorance,not Centrepining or anything else! Their ignorance is not tolerated within 99.9% of the general population,so lets not stand for this crap on the river or in your own backyard!
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I am sorry that this has happened to anyone, its a real shame. Even at my young age, I have come to realize that arrogance, ignorance, and intolerance are all prolific in certain fishing locations across the lower mainland. I been victim to this only a handful of times, and the best thing to do, I find, is bite your tongue, and walk away. The lighter criticism is good for a laugh sometimes. One day last october on the squamish, I was swore at and called a "kid" by another spey fisherman. I went against the bite my tongue and walk rule because I was genuinely curious as to why this older gentleman was acting like this, so I approached him. He went about saying that my skagit line was a Gimmick and that I wasn't a real fisherman for using it. He suggested I buy a long bellied line as I was finally walking away peeing my waders with laughter. ;D
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There is only one solution to this situation: make the Vedder fly fishing only with mandatory catch and release.
That will keep those pesky CP-fishing racists away. ::)
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There is only one solution to this situation: make the Vedder fly fishing only with mandatory catch and release.
That will keep those pesky CP-fishing racists away. ::)
As long as it is single handed. ;D
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;D
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Ssypark Rod & Nina yous surely did not deserve those "words"
Must of been a long drive back home.
Hateful words cut like a knife & it just takes time to heal from the effects.
Person feels hurt, angered ,dis appointed on & on...
Sometimes it even gives people that extra feeling to be cautious.
Not to fish in too off beaten trails.
Sorry that yous ( Ssypark Rod & Nina ) had to experience the poison from wagging tongues.
Met Rod & Nina a few times by chance & by their vids etc....ya know they are quality folks with good hearts.
They sure did not need to hear threats. Sad.
But great there is so much posts of support for what is right.
The majority of the people try to do good but it's the ones "minority" that sure can stir things up.
For example a thief in a neighbourhood.
400 homes & nightly break-ins...
So too with some "jokers" with wagging tongues on the river & lakes.
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As long as it is single handed. ;D
Hey, works for me! I don't even own a double-hander. ;D
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Sorry to hear that you ran into "haters on the river" . Unfortunately they will always be there. I know that running into them can ruin your whole day and even more than that. The best thing to do is remember that you have good quality friend who aren't "haters on the river".I would suggest that you stand up for yourself but with good judgement on the situation. You just never know who or what these haters can do. Think about it! .......... You are in the middle of know where and I would sure hate to run into one of these nuts, who is really nuts, and decides to take tougher acts of violence against you while no one is around! I guess I'm saying, you just never know who's out there! They are not worth the breath it takes to talk back. Be careful ,ignore them and remember you have good friends and family on your side. There are a lot of good people out there too. Don't let a few bad ones ruin something that we all love to do.
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I haven't been out on the Vedder this Fall and am surprised and disappointed that racial slurs are alive and well. Take some comfort in the fact that those who lower themselves to this behaviour are really cowards which results in bullying. You should feel sorry for them as well as their I'Q.'s are approximatelyl the same as your age.
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Racism happens to all races on the river including caucasions. I am caucasion and have experienced racism when I was fishing around another race (will not discuss which race as it does no good) as well as for being a redhead (ps us gingers will take a lot until you push too far, then run, the temper is a true redhead trait lol). It happens to a lot of people, I've found it depends on the friendliness of the people you are fishing around, not the race or what they fish with. Some anglers have this believe that they are better than others because of the way they fish, and some believe they own the river. When I approach I always ask for permission, its just commen courtesy but seldom see it used by others (goes a long way with some people). Best thing you can do is be respectful of others, friendly and know your regs, fish etc before you go to the river and always pick up after yourself (including not throwing your cig butts down the river, filters do not break down easily and fish will eat them from time to time). A lot of people get pissed off if you ask about regs or type of fish as it is your responsibility to know before you go to a river, not someone else's responsibility. Personally I know the regs but still carry a set on me in case my memory fails me. There is no excuse for racist comments but if you are yelled at for misidentifying a fish or not knowing your regs, it is your own fault for being yelled at (not the racist comments though). If you feel threatened either leave or call the cops, its not worth your time or effort to fight a racist as it is unlikely you will change their point of view and may in fact make the person more racist if it becomes heated instead of a logical calm conversation. There are enough places to fish that if you have an issue find another spot. In this day and age you never know what a person will do or what they are carrying on them, as I had a guy I was fishing around that I was talking to and joking with about beaks with only to find out he had a handgun on him to "deal with such people" , and that is why I am a firm believer in being respectful and courteous when approaching other anglers.
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you need to ask this question ................what did you do to make them spout off ? low-holing ?
I'm not one for racial slurrs , but without hearing what REALLY happened we can only assume they did not like you because of your skin colour.
I'm not trying to defend these guys but...............
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you need to ask this question ................what did you do to make them spout off ? low-holing ?
I'm not one for racial slurrs , but without hearing what REALLY happened we can only assume they did not like you because of your skin colour.
I'm not trying to defend these guys but...............
Then please don't.
It does not matter what he did, and as just I said he need not have done anything to receive a racial slur (a racist hates you for just being you, not for the way you fish).
If he had low holed the racist, he deserved at worst a "Hey! Don't low hole me, you beak!" He did not deserve a racial slur.
Now Jim, SST, and others have drawn attention to another problem, that of the connection between ignorance and ill tempers. While the discussion of racism has focused (or tried to focus) on the ignorance of the racist, the latter discussion hinges around the ignorance of the victim of ill tempered anglers (some of whom may also be racists). Even the most well mannered and even tempered of us get frustrated by ignorant anglers out there. As others have pointed out, it is the responsibility of the angler to properly educate themselves about the regulations of the water they are fishing (the age old legal philosophy that "ignorance of the law is no excuse") as these laws and regulations are easily found at fishing stores or online wherever you buy your license. Many anglers simply become incensed when a fellow angler commits a flagrant violation of the regulations, regulations they had the responsibility to know before they wet a line in that water. Many of these anglers will then, unwisely, choose to educate the offending angler on the spot. As a teacher, I can tell you that trying to teach a lesson while you are angry at the student is not a very good idea. No actual learning will take place, but someone will leave feeling "hated." Even more difficult to deal with, is ignorance of etiquette and even local custom. Even though these are often available to everyone if one knows where to look, they are certainly not as easy to learn as the regulations. However, many local anglers feel that etiquette and even the local customs should be known and practiced by everyone. This is not only unreasonable, it is also not possible. Local customs and etiquette are invariably learned by doing, and are most often (and most effectively) passed from father to son, or from friend to friend. This means that there are always going to be newcomers (whether they are the same race or not is irrelevant) that do not know the etiquette or the custom and will need to be educated. This is best done in the manner your father or friend would...with a smile and a gentle guiding hand, not a racially loaded slur.
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That is reality . Racism is REAL!!! It exists!! No matter how much we try to deny it, it is there, no matter where you go. You just have to deal with it. Just ignore the ones that are racist because you are a much better person than them. DON'T lower yourself to their level.
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After reading upon the 3 pages of this topic. I was so amazed by all the supportive and positive reply's. This forum definitely has created such a great community and I'm so happy to be part of it.
As for what happened, I guess I can explain in bigger detail in what happened:
Incident 1:
It was around 10:30 and after an unsuccessful month of trying to hook a steelie on the fly I changed to my gear rod and caught my first steelhead! I was so excited and there was so much adrenaline in my veins. My friend and I landed her and I decided to retain this hatchery doe.
After taking a couple photos and taking a breather on a log. I recalled that I wasn't allowed to fish anymore for steelhead! The day just began and my friend didn't hook one. So I was wondering if it was still ok to still fish for cutties or bull trout with my 6wt single hander.
I noticed a centerpinner making his way downstream and I decided to ask him to make sure about fishing my 6wt singe hander.
I went up to him and said "Excuse me, I was wondering if I -"
Him: "your'e done."
Me: "what?"
Him: "I said your'e done."
Me: "Oh, yea I was just trying to make sure because I just caught my first steelhead. "
Him: "Yea, I saw that, you think I'm f**kin blind?"
Me: "Oh ok, just making sure"
Him: "your'e f**kin done alright?! Next time do your f**kin homework before coming out here."
Me: "okay,"
I walked away in shock as to what just happened and he proceeded to fish. Ended up watching my friend for a bit and left the river.
I just think the hostility wasn't necessary.
Incident 2:
After a long day of fishing for steelhead on the Vedder with my two friends, (both korean) we had nothing on and was about to reach the end of our stretch. Around then, 4 guy start fishing across the river from us. After 20-30 more minutes of fishing we decide to call it a day and head back to the car. after hitting the parking lot entrance at the lick man spot we look across the river and notice one of the guys gets a fish on. As he was fighting a nice buck and noticed that we stopped and was watching him land the fish. He then proceeded to say "Bye Bye~~! You can go home now! Thats Right! haha!" My friend, who was already having a terrible day after falling in the river,lost it and said "f**k you" to the guy and told him to run down the river. The guy then said those racial slurs and then my friend swore back and we walked back to the car.
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Incident #1, just consider that you were unlucky and ran into one of the few jerks on this planet. I'd like to think most will take the time to explain if other anglers have a question. FYI, you have to stop fishing completely for all species when you retain your daily quota of steelhead. Last year we came across one spey angler who insisted that he could keep fishing after retaining his steelhead. He was furious after being yelled at by other anglers (not us). It's one regulation that I'm sure quite a few anglers are still not aware of and others should do their best to inform them when asked.
Incident #2, not saying it's right, but your friend should not be surprised by the responses after cursing at the other angler. Some anglers see steelheading as a competitive activity and take pleasure when they are able to outfish others. That's fine, a little bit of healthy competition does not hurt. Simply laugh it off and hope for a more productive day next time. Just out of curiosity, when (what date) did this incident happen?
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people are online at this hour. You should all be in bed so you can be up at first light for the new steelhead fishery at Lafarge Lake. ;)
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Hey Rodney correct me if I am wrong but if someone does keep a steel and decides to try for cutties, do they not have to use smaller gear in order to aviod a ticket? I am not sure it is true but I remember hearing something about if you are checked by a CO after catching a steel and you are using incorrect gear (8 wt or 10'6" salmon rod instead of 5 wt or trout rod) when targetting cutties,etc. they have the discretion to fine you? of is that only if you do not have the appropriate tags? I can't steelhead, I'm more curious about the answer than anything plus it would be good for others to know if they plan on doing so.
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Racism happens to all races on the river including caucasions. I am caucasion and have experienced racism when I was fishing around another race (will not discuss which race as it does no good) as well as for being a redhead (ps us gingers will take a lot until you push too far, then run, the temper is a true redhead trait lol). It happens to a lot of people,
Yeah, you haven't experienced racism until you've seen it from the "white guys" point of view. Sometimes I can hardly get out of bed to face the world, which is totally tipped against me. Why just the other day I had to order a Timmies and the woman couldn't understand my order, can you imagine my humiliation. And to make it worse, I was with a friend with blonde hair and he says it happens to him all the time! I am not going to say which ethnicity is the worst, let's just say they have straight black hair. Yeah, poor little white guys, we have it rough.
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correct me if I am wrong but if someone does keep a steel and decides to try for cutties, do they not have to use smaller gear in order to aviod a ticket?
No.
When you have caught and retained
your daily quota of hatchery steelhead
from any water, you must stop fishing
that water for the remainder of that day.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/0911/fish-synopsis_2009-11_region2.pdf (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/0911/fish-synopsis_2009-11_region2.pdf)
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Racists and bigots will only win when you react to their ignorance. hell I've been a visual minority pretty well since birth ::) had to moderate my reactions once I slooowed down.
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Yeah, you haven't experienced racism until you've seen it from the "white guys" point of view. Sometimes I can hardly get out of bed to face the world, which is totally tipped against me. Why just the other day I had to order a Timmies and the woman couldn't understand my order, can you imagine my humiliation. And to make it worse, I was with a friend with blonde hair and he says it happens to him all the time! I am not going to say which ethnicity is the worst, let's just say they have straight black hair. Yeah, poor little white guys, we have it rough.
This is a April fool's joke right?
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Yeah, you haven't experienced racism until you've seen it from the "white guys" point of view. Sometimes I can hardly get out of bed to face the world, which is totally tipped against me. Why just the other day I had to order a Timmies and the woman couldn't understand my order, can you imagine my humiliation. And to make it worse, I was with a friend with blonde hair and he says it happens to him all the time! I am not going to say which ethnicity is the worst, let's just say they have straight black hair. Yeah, poor little white guys, we have it rough.
Ha Ha. It happen to me all the time, Just learn how to deal with them nicely :D.. Doesn't matter you are white ,yellow or brown.
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I would hope that is an april fools joke...lol...or he lives in a fantasy world where caucasions dont experience racism lol
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I would hope that is an april fools joke...lol...or he lives in a fantasy world where caucasions dont experience racism lol
Obviously it is a joke. Caucasians suffer terribly from racism. Just like models are discriminated against. Yup, really suffering from racism but I don't like to talk about it much because it makes me look like I am out of touch with what real racism looks like.
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real racism lol . ya ok ::)
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I don't know if you would call it racism, but i've been in more than a few places on three road north of Cook where all the signs are in chinese and when I tried to order I was answered in the same language as the signs. I just put it down to stupid business practice and left. Went further north to a well known mall and everything was fine. ;D
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I don't know if you would call it racism, but i've been in more than a few places on three road north of Cook where all the signs are in chinese and when I tried to order I was answered in the same language as the signs. I just put it down to stupid business practice and left. Went further north to a well known mall and everything was fine. ;D
I wouldn't really call that racism. I can't read those signs either and also won't patronize those places. Racism is when one is walking home from a new school in the suburbs, minding one's own business, when out of the blue, one would be swarmed simultaneously by dozens of kids that one didn't know, taunted, and pushed to the ground, and spit on, and called racist names, just for no reason other than one was different race. That's racism. :)
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i've been in more than a few places on three road north of Cook where all the signs are in chinese and when I tried to order I was answered in the same language as the signs.
Mel, when you are in town next time, I'll volunteer to be your tour guide and translator. ;D We'll order all the weird Asian foods that you won't find at Cookies. ;)
I wouldn't really call that racism. I can't read those signs either and also won't patronize those places. Racism is when one is walking home from a new school in the suburbs, minding one's own business, when out of the blue, one would be swarmed simultaneously by dozens of kids that one didn't know, taunted, and pushed to the ground, and spit on, and called racist names, just for no reason other than one was different race. That's racism. :)
Yes and no. Racism is defined differently by everyone. When the abuse becomes physical, it's considered hate crimes. I define racism as motives that make others feel terrible about being who they are to the point that they are embarrassed about their own race. This can be done verbally, or simply carried out by ignoring and isolating the person because he or she is different to the rest of the crowd.
I don't see too much of it in BC to be honest, or perhaps I just haven't lived outside of Metro Vancouver. ;) People here seem to be very willing to accept and learn about other cultures. You go into a Chinese restaurant, it's not unusual to see Caucasians, Chinese, East Indians all dining in there. I actually find that minorities in Canada often call it racism too quickly whenever there are conflicts or misunderstandings. Somehow we are quite sensitive about the words we use here and are afraid of offending anyone unintentionally. To be honest I haven't really seen too many incidents that I would consider as racist compared to what I experienced in Australia (over 15 years ago, things are probably quite different now). Being spat on by pedestrians while riding past them on your bicycle, being heckled on the street while everyone else looked on without any interest to intervene, being ignored at restaurants and shouted at when asking for service were some of the more minor doodoos that we had to put up with back there.
To those who have never been recipients of racism, of course it's hard to understand why anyone normal would fire out racial slurs for no apparent reasons. In fact, that's how it happens most of the time when minorities experience racism.
For the Chilliwack River, conflicts arise at times because we have anglers from different cultures participating in this fishery. Different cultures have different habits, different space of comfort, different ideas on what fishing is about. These differences will clash with each other again and again. Asians usually see fishing as a celebratory social gathering where people can catch fish together and have fun at the same time. That obviously only works somewhat for the salmon fishery and does not work for the steelhead fishery. Asians also see fishing as a way of harvesting food, even if it is recreationally. There are definitely issues that need to be addressed, education needs to be done, some tolerance needs to be shown. Overall, based on what I have observed from both the rivers and a popular Chinese fishing forum in BC, I have to say the Chinese community is trying quite hard to make sure rules are followed and nobody is stepping on others' toes. There will always be some who choose not to fit in and do whatever they want, but don't use their actions to generalize the rest.
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i arrive at the vedder around 1030 sunday with a friend of mine and had a run all to ourselves. started at the top and worked our way down. about 2/3 down the run an older asain fellow came into to join us. unfortunally he started prob 10 ft bellow me as i was working my way down. i was a bit pissed but bit my tongue and continued. it was the first run of the day and i didnt want to put myself in that mood. i prob should have taken the time to explain to him but i really wanted to fish that tailout. i much rather have positive experience at the river than a negative one and would of been helpfull if he had asked. if one of these people that like to start cupcakes had this happen to them i think it would have gotten ugly, because i have never been low holed like that before.
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We cannot persuade people to change their behaviour if they choose to be confrontational. Personally I think if people are so hot tempered and their initial reaction is to verbally abuse or cause physical harms to someone, education no longer works for them.
We can certainly do quite a bit to create an educational campaign so newcomers are more aware of the unspoken river fishing etiquettes that more experienced anglers expect everyone to follow. Most people want to learn and avoid conflicts because they go fishing to enjoy themselves, not to ruin other people's days. If the information is out there, people will pick it up, put it to good use and hopefully scenarios like what bigblockfox experienced can be avoided.
Again, I'm not sure how the educational campaign can be carried out. Maybe a one-page information sheet should be developed and distributed to tackle stores in the Lower Mainland so that when people buy their freshwater fishing licences, stores can print the licences on the back of these sheets. This way the angler leaves the store with a licence as well as all the information that he or she needs about fishing in Lower Mainland rivers. Maybe we need more articles on etiquettes on the website. Maybe we need actual videos that demonstrate the do's and don'ts on the river.
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i arrive at the vedder around 1030 sunday with a friend of mine and had a run all to ourselves. started at the top and worked our way down. about 2/3 down the run an older asain fellow came into to join us. unfortunally he started prob 10 ft bellow me as i was working my way down. i was a bit pissed but bit my tongue and continued. it was the first run of the day and i didnt want to put myself in that mood. i prob should have taken the time to explain to him but i really wanted to fish that tailout. i much rather have positive experience at the river than a negative one and would of been helpfull if he had asked. if one of these people that like to start **** had this happen to them i think it would have gotten ugly, because i have never been low holed like that before.
I guess you just have to get use of it .I got low hole all the time even i don't fish in the popular area. ::)
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Rod, you're already leading the charge in changing etiquette and proper angling methods on rivers, and forums like this are invaluable to educating both old and new anglers. I like the combo licence/information package for people that buy their licences at stores but not sure how that could be implemented for people that print their own. Maybe the videos are the way to go ... all comes down to funding I guess, but I'd pay to see a video of Chris low holing the Master ;D
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Again, I'm not sure how the educational campaign can be carried out. Maybe a one-page information sheet should be developed and distributed to tackle stores in the Lower Mainland so that when people buy their freshwater fishing licences, stores can print the licences on the back of these sheets. This way the angler leaves the store with a licence as well as all the information that he or she needs about fishing in Lower Mainland rivers.
Thats a good idea Rod
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We cannot persuade people to change their behaviour if they choose to be confrontational. Personally I think if people are so hot tempered and their initial reaction is to verbally abuse or cause physical harms to someone, education no longer works for them.
We can certainly do quite a bit to create an educational campaign so newcomers are more aware of the unspoken river fishing etiquettes that more experienced anglers expect everyone to follow. Most people want to learn and avoid conflicts because they go fishing to enjoy themselves, not to ruin other people's days. If the information is out there, people will pick it up, put it to good use and hopefully scenarios like what bigblockfox experienced can be avoided.
Again, I'm not sure how the educational campaign can be carried out. Maybe a one-page information sheet should be developed and distributed to tackle stores in the Lower Mainland so that when people buy their freshwater fishing licences, stores can print the licences on the back of these sheets. This way the angler leaves the store with a licence as well as all the information that he or she needs about fishing in Lower Mainland rivers. Maybe we need more articles on etiquettes on the website. Maybe we need actual videos that demonstrate the do's and don'ts on the river.
I really like those ideas Rod. It would definitely help me out as well as others who I'd like to introduce to fishing.
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Hey Rod:
Maybe for the next video, you can make it a "how to fish properly in vedder"....a few examples like discussed in this post will definitely be helpful....
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Again, I'm not sure how the educational campaign can be carried out. Maybe a one-page information sheet should be developed and distributed to tackle stores in the Lower Mainland so that when people buy their freshwater fishing licences, stores can print the licences on the back of these sheets. This way the angler leaves the store with a licence as well as all the information that he or she needs about fishing in Lower Mainland rivers. Maybe we need more articles on etiquettes on the website. Maybe we need actual videos that demonstrate the do's and don'ts on the river.
I doubt that more info on a website or more videos are the answer. I suspect that most of the new and/or ignorant fishers do not do a lot of research online before they go fishing. I think that a series of handouts at the tackle stores or signage on the rivers would be more effective. I doubt that Army and Navy or Canadian Tire or Walmart (where most of the target audience shops?) would be very supportive of having a pile of flyers on their counter past the introduction stage and if a program is to be effective it needs to be durable as well as accessible. If the vendors can't support a program it will die quickly.
So I guess my suggestion is to consider a series of small signs on the rivers with various instructive messages.
Hey, is instructive a word or did I just invent one?
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I like the combo licence/information package for people that buy their licences at stores but not sure how that could be implemented for people that print their own.
That would be as easy as a document that prints out with the license. I would prefer to see that over say... a check box that says you read the information (like licensing agreements for software you download). I think if you have to print out a pamphlet before printing your license, you would be more apt to read it.
So I guess my suggestion is to consider a series of small signs on the rivers with various instructive messages.
Hey, is instructive a word or did I just invent one?
sorry...
instructive |inˈstrəktiv|
adjective
useful and informative : It is instructive to compare the two projects.
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I suspect that most of the new and/or ignorant fishers do not do a lot of research online before they go fishing.
But I thought it is common knowledge that the internet, this website specifically, has brought all the unethical fishermen to the rivers. ;D ;D ;D
Good to see all the inputs so far. If people want to see changes instead of accepting it as the way it is and getting frustrated with it, then ideas like these should be put to work.
I suggested the print-out idea on the back of a printed licence from a tackle store because the issue is more regional-specific (Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley) so it would be hard to distribute online. To have it online, registrants have to select the information that they wish to read, it's just not that easy to execute. It'd also be hard to convince the ministry to invest a sum of money to have the licence system overhauled so this can be included. With the print-out, it can be done river-specific and season-specific. For example, if new anglers go into Fred's Custom Tackle to buy a licence, they are most likely interested in going to the Chilliwack River. There can be a one-page information sheet that includes generic regulations, where to look for new updates, basic etiquettes, fish IDs and other important notes and contact information. The licence can then be printed on the back of that print-out so when the angler receives the licence, he or she will most likely read everything on it. You can't control people's behaviour, but you can certainly make them more informed.
This website has a civic obligation to keep the recreational fishing community a healthy one, but the above suggested task is not something that the website/I should be carrying out. For a few reasons, there are legality issues, I don't want to/shouldn't be the authority voice that tells people who they should fish. This is a task that Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Freshwater Fisheries Society, BC's Ministry, and possibly the FVSS, BCFDF and SSBC should be involved with. This website and all the tackle stores can carry out the task by being the information outlet, but I think the decision makings and fundings should be coming from some of these organizations. I will correspond with the contacts of all of these groups and see what can come out of it. We've discussed about this on here and at meetings for a couple of years now, time to get things going.
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This website has a civic obligation to keep the recreational fishing community a healthy one, but the above suggested task is not something that the website/I should be carrying out. For a few reasons, there are legality issues, I don't want to/shouldn't be the authority voice that tells people who they should fish. This is a task that Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Freshwater Fisheries Society, BC's Ministry, and possibly the FVSS, BCFDF and SSBC should be involved with. This website and all the tackle stores can carry out the task by being the information outlet, but I think the decision makings and fundings should be coming from some of these organizations. I will correspond with the contacts of all of these groups and see what can come out of it. We've discussed about this on here and at meetings for a couple of years now, time to get things going.
FWIW - I have emailed a link to this thread along with some suggestions that have been mentioned here to the Fish & Wildlife Branch in Victoria. I hope I haven't stepped on any toes in doing so, but I thought the ideas were too good to pass up and novel enough that maybe they hadn't been considered before.
I'd be happy to try and help with an initiative like this, I think it's a great idea - it's simple and could be moderately effective.
Tex
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I doubt that,most violators know the regulations,they just ignored it even you mentioned them it's illegal.I saw it not once,people killed a wild coho and ran.
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I doubt that,most violators know the regulations,they just ignored it even you mentioned them it's illegal.I saw it not once,people killed a wild coho and ran.
I disagree that most violators know the regulations and intentionally flaunt them. Far too large of a percentage fall into that category for sure, but there are MANY that unknowingly make significant mistakes simple out of ignorance - not out of evil intent. I used to be one when I first started out - I'm sure most of us on this board did things that - looking back - were illegal, and that we regret, simply because we didn't know.
I would've thought it was SO awesome if - when I bought my first license - it came with a one page document that outlined some basic etiquette/regulations to be aware of.