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Author Topic: Single Barbless Hook?  (Read 1638 times)

iRobertO

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Single Barbless Hook?
« on: June 02, 2024, 07:01:40 PM »

I am looking for a definitive actual answer on this question.
I can find very definitive “opinions” on both sides, but surely there is an actual answer with proof, yet I haven’t been able to find it. I’ve even read, “a conservation office told me it is ok” and “a conservation officer told me it isn’t allowed”.

When a lake in BC has an exception of “single barbless hook” does that mean you can only fish one line with one hook with one pointy end? Or does it mean, each hook should only have one pointy end?

I want to troll a Bucktail in a lake with “single barbless hook” but a Bucktail has a trailing hook.
Or I want to troll a plug with two single barbless hooks on the plug.
Yes, I could modify a lure to only have one pointy end, but that’s obviously not the point of this post.

Any insight, with proof, would be great.

Rob

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RalphH

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2024, 10:19:02 PM »

from Pg. 4 of the synopsis

Single Hook: it is prohibited to angle with
a hook with more than one point on waters
that are subject to a single hook regulation.
Single hook regulations may be in place
year round or seasonally. Where single hook
regulations are in place on a water body it
applies to angling for all species. Often single
hook regulations are combined with barbless
hook regulations and termed “single barbless
hook”.
Barbless Hook: it is prohibited to use a hook
with a barb on waters subject to a barbless
hook regulation. Barbless hook regulations
may be in place year-round or seasonally.
Where barbless hook regulations are in place
on a water body, it applies to angling for all
species. Often barbless hook regulations are
combined with single hook regulations and
termed “single barbless hook”.

What you are asking about is, is a  stinger hook (the trailing hook on a bucktail) prohibited under these regulations. I don't know though I have always thought so.

Try emailing your question to fishandwildlife@gov.bc.ca
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Darko

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iRobertO

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2024, 12:09:49 AM »

from Pg. 4 of the synopsis

Single Hook: it is prohibited to angle with
a hook with more than one point on waters
that are subject to a single hook regulation.
Single hook regulations may be in place
year round or seasonally. Where single hook
regulations are in place on a water body it
applies to angling for all species. Often single
hook regulations are combined with barbless
hook regulations and termed “single barbless
hook”.
Barbless Hook: it is prohibited to use a hook
with a barb on waters subject to a barbless
hook regulation. Barbless hook regulations
may be in place year-round or seasonally.
Where barbless hook regulations are in place
on a water body, it applies to angling for all
species. Often barbless hook regulations are
combined with single hook regulations and
termed “single barbless hook”.

What you are asking about is, is a  stinger hook (the trailing hook on a bucktail) prohibited under these regulations. I don't know though I have always thought so.

Try emailing your question to fishandwildlife@gov.bc.ca

See this is part of the grammatical confusion, I don’t believe this says you can’t, it alludes to the “treble” argument.
I am in fact going to walk into the conservation office tomorrow.
I’ll let you know what they say!

Rob
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 12:11:45 AM by iRobertO »
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iRobertO

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2024, 12:11:03 AM »

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=41076.0

And this is definitely one example of a CO says you can fish in a lake that has a single barbless hook restriction with Bucktails and plugs.

Rob
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RalphH

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2024, 09:15:02 AM »

with a bucktail I'd suggest cutting the bend off the first hook (the hook to which the bucktail is tied) and leaving the stinger.

If you tie your own buy some tubes and tie the bucktail on the tube:

A couple of videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-orDxo0AnoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADEG4ZzZDw
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SuperBobby

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2024, 09:31:00 AM »

There is absolutely nothing to be confused about.
Single barbless hook means single barbless hook.
If a lure or jig or whatever comes from the tackle shop with a second hook on it, then you either don't use that lure or jig, or you remove one of the hooks.
BC does have a nice rule though for most lakes that if you are alone in a boat, you can fish with 2 lines....but that does not have anything to do with the single barbless hook rule for the lure or jig on each line. Whatever your offering or bait is, it must be a single barbless hook if that is what the restrictions for that body of water are.

As for both Conservation Officers and DFO Officers, I've witnessed the unfortunate reality that 'some' of them are completely useless in both understanding and implementing the rules. And a good CO or DFO isn't going to give you the time of day when you tell them that the last CO or DFO you spoke to said 'such and such' was ok. It is up to YOU to know the regulations of the body of water you are fishing.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 09:32:45 AM by SuperBobby »
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RalphH

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2024, 12:38:16 PM »

Only a small number of lakes have a single hook regulation. My suggestion to get an opinion directly from the F&W HQ in Victoria was also to account for differences of opinion between COs etc. Whatever you get make sure it is in writing and keep it on hand in case some other CO thinks a single hook is a single hook.
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fisherforever

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2024, 01:37:52 PM »

 To the OP best thing is to get a copy of the present freshwater regulations and go through them. As far as "Only a small number of lakes have a single hook regulation." it is worthwhile to note Region 1 ( I haven't gone through all regions but this is an example) has 56 lakes noted as SINGLE HOOK ONLY, some of them are noted for a specific time frame.
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RalphH

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2024, 02:55:56 PM »

To the OP best thing is to get a copy of the present freshwater regulations and go through them. As far as "Only a small number of lakes have a single hook regulation." it is worthwhile to note Region 1 ( I haven't gone through all regions but this is an example) has 56 lakes noted as SINGLE HOOK ONLY, some of them are noted for a specific time frame.


Good point though the synopsis is on line and can be downloaded. Region 1 has far more than region 2 (mostly in Powell River area) though I haven't checked other regions.  It's still not a big number. Makes one wonder why the Island get far better conservation oriented regulations to protect summer steelhead populations and native cutthroat. In many cases artificial fly only and single hook only regulations are paired.

In the case of OP, he knows the lake he wants to fish has such a regulation so not such a big deal.
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"It is obviously, incontestably true that a senile president with a competent and ethical staff would be preferable to an authoritarian one who wants to fill his administration with guys who sound like school shooter manifestos " ...Adam Serwer writing in The Atlantic July 3, 2024

iRobertO

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2024, 07:52:36 PM »

Today I attempted to walk into the office of BC Conservation in Kamloops, and quickly realized you can’t just walk in without an appointment. At the doorway though, they had a list of names and numbers. So I called Andrew Klassen, Senior Fish Biologist and left a message. He called me back in 20 minutes and we had a great conversation for 15 minutes or so. Here is the synopsis about the synopsis.. :)

Me: I’m calling today to get clarification on something in the fishing regs that seems to be widely debated and unclear. My question is regarding the “single barbless hook” regulation on some lakes, and the definition and meaning of that restriction.

AK: The interpretation that “we’ve all agreed upon for the province” for this specific issue is that, you can have as many single barbless hooks as you want on the lure, as long as it is designed to only catch one fish at a time. And so if it’s a Bucktail with hooks that are reasonably close together, it’s designed to catch one fish, It’s not like it’s a dropper rig where you have a baited hook then another one at 10’, that is different. So you can have multiple hooks, but they all have to be single barbless.
“So the Conservation Officers and the Biologists across the Province, have come to this conclusion that on single barbless hook lakes, like Shuswap, Kamloops lake and so on, you can have multiple hooks but they all have to be single barbless and all on one lure. If it’s designed to catch one fish, that’s legal.”

I should say, he did mention and acknowledge why the rule seems like it’s grey, but the impetus behind the rule is to ensure people aren’t catching multiple fish at once.

I also asked if he minds if I quote him on this and he said that was fine. It was at this point that he acknowledged the discussion, and answer that Jeff Burrows had already given (in that link in this thread above) that he was aware had already circulated.

So, after seeing the Jeff Burrows email and having this conversation, (of which we talked about much more), I am 100% confident in my understanding of the interpretation of the law by Conservation.

No more chopping up my Bucktails.

Rob
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stsfisher

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2024, 10:45:37 AM »

I will continue to use 1 hook that is barbless on those systems that have a "single barbless hook " requirement. Really no need to circumvent the regs to ensure I get 3 hooks in the face of a fish.
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RalphH

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Re: Single Barbless Hook?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2024, 11:19:00 AM »

there is not a lot of scientific evidence that indicates the type of hook - single vs treble, barbed vs barbless - makes a significant difference in how fish that either are released after landing or escape the hook, survive. The big difference is where they are hooked. Hooked in the throat, esophagus, gills, eyes and under the tongue (where there are major arteries) causes significantly higher post encounter mortality.

The issue about barbed or barbless has been raised in the past and those facts were acknowledged though the F&W folks believed a barbless hook reduces the release handing stress and in the past won't talk about it further.
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"It is obviously, incontestably true that a senile president with a competent and ethical staff would be preferable to an authoritarian one who wants to fill his administration with guys who sound like school shooter manifestos " ...Adam Serwer writing in The Atlantic July 3, 2024