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[avid angler]

Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?

[Tylsie]

Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?

I am not that familiar with the LC, but do know the other two Canadian Boundary Bay systems quite well. The true native Chinook are probably non existent today. For years they took various runs and transplanted them including the Harrison whites you mention. But don't think and whites have been stocked in 20 years or close to. That being said, and after handling literally thousands of fish in that area, 98% of the Chinook are descendents of reds from various DFO hatcheries in the 1990s  with the other 2% still hold Harrison White genes. Have that smell to them.

[salmonrook]

Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?

Thats a good question .
I know that DFO got serious about salmon conservation in the 80's and the LC hatchery benefitted
But the history of the Semi Fish and Game Club goes back to the 1950's when several community members wanted to save the health of the river but stopping  the destructive gravel extraction practices .
 They worked to keep the health of the river , this may have included fostering these  2 salmon species  Coho and Chinook .
 Unfortunately like all things this info is only known by the older members , many who have passed .
 Will go thru the archives because I am interested to know if they are native as well , they could be given that this watershed was kept in this manner from early on .

[RalphH]

Look forward to hearing if you find anything salmonrook. i have always thought LC chinook are native. Chinook in the Salmon are native  there has not been an introduction of other stocks. The chinook in the Serpentine and Nicomekl were extirpated early in the last century (as were chum). Harrison fish were introduced in the 80s. I have caught a few and they are whites. The latest post season stocking report I have (2019) indicates brood stock are sourced directly from hatchery returns to those 3 rivers.

[clarki]

To add to the conversation, I found a couple of online mentions of the origins of hatchery chinook in the LC (fact checking welcome!)

In 2010, an article in a Surrey paper reported that "The species was introduced to the Little Campbell in 1980" (clarki note: this appears to predate construction of the hatchery in 1983)

And...
Mature fish in the Southern Mainland Boundary Bay population spawn in tributaries to Boundary Bay such as the Serpentine, Nicomekl and Little Campbell rivers. This wildlife species occurs in highly altered freshwater and marine habitats. Ongoing low marine survival, bycatch, and fish culture effects are cumulative threats to the remaining wild fish. Hatchery releases are ongoing and have included fish from other populations, threatening the genetic integrity of the few remaining wild fish. While hatchery production has allowed the total population size to increase, a consensus of expert opinion estimates fewer than 1000 mature wild fish remain.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/species-risk-public-registry/cosewic-assessments-status-reports/chinook-salmon-2020.html

[RalphH]

Over the years i have read a number of stream and salmon surveys for Surrey streams. All commented that Chinook had been extirpated from the Serpentine & Nicomekl though a native small native run existed in the LC. The fish I have caught in the former 2 looked like Harrison whites (except maybe 1). When I was involved with the Alouette Hatchery there was an attempt to introduce a summer run to replace the similar run that was extirpated by the dam construction. Instead DFO put Harrison whites in and that's still what goes in there today. Ditto for the Cap'.

[wildmanyeah]

My understanding is they tried Harrison whites and it was not very successful, huge fish but only a small amount returned.

I believe they then got brood from Washington state and that’s what’s there today. Now classified as CU boundary bay stock

[RalphH]

My understanding is they tried Harrison whites and it was not very successful, huge fish but only a small amount returned.

I believe they then got brood from Washington state and that’s what’s there today. Now classified as CU boundary bay stock

Ok that could be. However if the native population is long gone from 2 of those rivers why is DFO putting together a summary for COSEWIC status for a population that is introduced and only survives through hatchery reproduction? Yet they ignore the cutthroat in those rivers which are likely not any more numerous, certainly not artificially propagated and in more need of protection! NO sense in that at all.

[salmonrook]

Look forward to hearing if you find anything salmonrook. i have always thought LC chinook are native. Chinook in the Salmon are native  there has not been an introduction of other stocks. The chinook in the Serpentine and Nicomekl were extirpated early in the last century (as were chum). Harrison fish were introduced in the 80s. I have caught a few and they are whites. The latest post season stocking report I have (2019) indicates brood stock are sourced directly from hatchery returns to those 3 rivers.

Thanks
Will do more research on the subject , I thought the Chinook were native on  the LC as they were  involved as a hatchery early on .
They were one of the first volunteer hatcheries and even pioneered the fish fence design that you see in other hatcheries .
It brings up a interesting question because we have 2 different looking Chinooks , one shows up and has a dark body and is usually started its spawning because it already has rotting fins . The other one shows up and its basically green and highly spotted , these ones are usually in better shape and smaller . I think this is the difference between reds and whites ?
Our run is small and we do a count every year but the wilds outnumber the hatchery fish 5 to 1 .
 

[coastangler]

However if the native population is long gone from 2 of those rivers why is DFO putting together a summary for COSEWIC status for a population that is introduced and only survives through hatchery reproduction?
Yet they ignore the cutthroat in those rivers which are likely not any more numerous, certainly not artificially propagated and in more need of protection! NO sense in that at all.

Fully agreed with you on this and the decline of BB Cuthtroat. Just to clarify (you probably meant that anyway) - I don't think DFO is to blame for the hatchery cuthtroat program ending. I believe this is BC jurisdiction so not sure that both decisions are coming from the same place

[redside1]

Fully agreed with you on this and the decline of BB Cuthtroat. Just to clarify (you probably meant that anyway) - I don't think DFO is to blame for the hatchery cuthtroat program ending. I believe this is BC jurisdiction so not sure that both decisions are coming from the same place

Cutthroat are 100% the province's fish to worry about.
DFO has virtually zero to do with the actual management of the species except to decide on if you can keep them in saltwater.
the province decided a few years ago to get rid of the hatchery program for curtthroat trout for a variety of reason.

[RalphH]

COSEWIC is a Federal government program enabled through the 2002 Species at Risk Act which appointed the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada to identify both endangered species and those whose habitat or existence may be in jeopardy. Constitutionally, by the BNA Act, the Federal government does have responsibility for all aquatic species and environments including inland waterways but early in the 20th century these were delegated to the Provinces and Territories. Likewise the Feds have primary responsibility for freshwater salmon as well as trout habitat. Responsibility can be delegated but never be revoked. It may be primarily up to the Province to put forward cutthroat in watershed where they may be endangered. Bull trout have COSEWIC status so why not sea run cutthroat? Westslope cutthroat also have COSEWIC status.

https://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/virtual_sara/files/cosewic/sr_omble_tete_plat_bull_trout_1113_e.pdf

https://www.registrelep-sararegistry.gc.ca/virtual_sara/files/cosewic/sr_oncorhynchus_clarkii_lewisi_e.pd

BTW the Province considered the cancellation of the searun cutthroat stocking program well over ten years before it actually took place if not earlier. That it happened in had more to do with changing personnel . It was the same with the Thompson bait ban. All these decisions required unanimous agreement and didn't happen until some opposed left the service. 

[Clarki Hunter]

I did cutthroat brood stock angling for the LC for over 5 years.  After they ended the program the numbers dropped significantly after 2 years.  The anglers I've talked to on the river say they rarely if ever catch one now. 

[salmonrook]

the province decided a few years ago to get rid of the hatchery program for curtthroat trout for a variety of reason.

The program ended when they decided that the wild stocks should be allowed to reproduce and recover naturally .
Its not going to happen and the fishery on the Little Campbell was a catch and release for wild fish
 Maybe they thought the wild stocks would have a better gene pool without mixing with the hatchery fish

[salmonrook]

Over the years i have read a number of stream and salmon surveys for Surrey streams. All commented that Chinook had been extirpated from the Serpentine & Nicomekl though a native small native run existed in the LC. The fish I have caught in the former 2 looked like Harrison whites (except maybe 1). When I was involved with the Alouette Hatchery there was an attempt to introduce a summer run to replace the similar run that was extirpated by the dam construction. Instead DFO put Harrison whites in and that's still what goes in there today. Ditto for the Cap'.

Was able to find some stats from the LC that noted that when the hatchery started they had wild populations of Chinook recorded when they did a fish count . To me this confirms that they did have a native run and it had survived through all the years .
It wasnt a large number back then  and  has survived .
The numbers this year were good for the unclipped wild fish so I believe that the run is in good shape inspite of it being a small number.