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[Darko]

So disappointing.....
I guess I'll just get my sockeye from the natives instead of catching my own in the salt, such a load of hog wash
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/for/d/north-vancouver-fresh-sockeye-salmon/7522821630.html

so sad... thought I was gonna get my first chance to catch a sockeye this year.

[Blood_Orange]

so sad... thought I was gonna get my first chance to catch a sockeye this year.

I think rec fishing for salmon in the Fraser is mostly over. The anglers here who were fishing in the 80s had it good, if the stories I've heard can be believed I just hope that they knew at the time how good they had it.

[armytruck]

Back in the 80's , It was more or less float fishing in the upper Fraser as well as lots of bar fishing chinook . You were able to catch the odd Sockeye on the cork floating rig , short leader with a big dewy worm

[fic]

Catches went down yesterday after PSC settled on their guesstimate.  I'm guessing they may have to revise it downward.

Area 12 - Blinkhorn Sockeye Seine   8/17/2022   1   5   5   8145   0   2450   5   5   0   0   2   2   0   16   0   1629   490
Area 12 - Blinkhorn Sockeye Seine   8/18/2022   1   6   6   2694   0   1382   7   7   0   0   9   9   0   28   0   449   230.3333333

[RalphH]

I think rec fishing for salmon in the Fraser is mostly over. The anglers here who were fishing in the 80s had it good, if the stories I've heard can be believed I just hope that they knew at the time how good they had it.

I never fished the Fraser in the 80s. Most of my summer time fishing was on the Coquihalla for summer runs and the Skagit. I did floss sockeye starting around 2000 and did fish most years until the last opening in 2018. I know during that later period there were some very large returns both for sockeye and springs. I think those years were a bit of a jump in what's been a steady decline for the last 40 years. The past 10 or so years have been the opposite, that is to say a bigger decline than we have ever seen.  Hard to say what is causing it but from what I read most academic & professional salmon biologists think it's ocean warming or declining ocean conditions. Few seem to buy the pinniped predation argument. Some of that increase has also been driven by changes in the ocean as southern waters support even less fish.

I have been fishing the Fraser valley since the early 60s. The biggest difference I have noticed is not so much the drop in the number fish but that so many smaller streams have just a tiny fraction of the salmon trout & steelhead that they once had. In the late 60s the Nicomekl in Surrey returned over 20,000 coho - that's in stream. That was unusual even for that time. The population increase (it's increased over 400% in under 60 years) and development have really hurt wild salmon etc. Only 2 or 3 rivers have large hatchery returns. I don't think that will last much longer either. I expect it to be close to gone by the time my life is over. Frankly I don't think there is much to be done about it! People are just not willing to change there standard of living in a way that could reverse the trend.

[Phronesis]

Salmon species go back millions of years and have been resilient so far, if we keep our efforts in preserving them, I dont doubt they will bounce back - ofcourse by efforts i mean collective effort on climate change, it not going to be over night or be easy by any means but any small effort would go a long way. Im not sad about not having an opportunity for sockeye, rather more concerned about the decline and hopefully in coming few years we see them bounce back

[RalphH]

any examination of what is known about salmon populations in the last 100 to 150 years to now, shows a remarked decline. Salmon may be resilient (that's arguable) but if the North Pacific becomes an ocean zone not terribly hospitable to them, there can be no bounce back. Back around 1,000 years ago the climate in some parts of the Northern hemisphere were much warmer including The PNWC and what geological data is available shows salmon were no where as numerous as say circa 1900. Even our local FNs did not seem to rely on them much that came a few hundred years later. These were changes of small amount, maybe about what we have experienced so far since 1900. If we use the last great period of warming, the Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum, the climate warmed 5 to 8 degrees C on a much smaller annual carbon increase than our current carbon fuel increments over a period of some thousands of years, it took something like 200,000 years for cooling to really start. If anyone thinks it's ok to wait that long for the climate to cool and have salmon come back from a hopeful survival in Arctic waters...you have a patience that greatly exceeds death which seems pointless.

[wildmanyeah]

https://ufawu-unifor.org/media/ufawu-responds-to-canadian-waters-closed-while-americans-fish/

[Phronesis]

any examination of what is known about salmon populations in the last 100 to 150 years to now, shows a remarked decline. Salmon may be resilient (that's arguable) but if the North Pacific becomes an ocean zone not terribly hospitable to them, there can be no bounce back. Back around 1,000 years ago the climate in some parts of the Northern hemisphere were much warmer including The PNWC and what geological data is available shows salmon were no where as numerous as say circa 1900. Even our local FNs did not seem to rely on them much that came a few hundred years later. These were changes of small amount, maybe about what we have experienced so far since 1900. If we use the last great period of warming, the Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum, the climate warmed 5 to 8 degrees C on a much smaller annual carbon increase than our current carbon fuel increments over a period of some thousands of years, it took something like 200,000 years for cooling to really start. If anyone thinks it's ok to wait that long for the climate to cool and have salmon come back from a hopeful survival in Arctic waters...you have a patience that greatly exceeds death which seems pointless.

With technological advancements and reseachers already working on reversal, it shouldnt be far fetched, maybe few decades.....

[psd1179]

To be honest, sockeye taste just as same as the other salmon. Be patient for the coho coming

[RalphH]

With technological advancements and reseachers already working on reversal, it shouldnt be far fetched, maybe few decades.....

Reversal of what? Geological  evidence shows that climate cooling takes 10 to 20 times longer than warming. Even if it's "reversed" in 30 years there could be warming for 300 years or more.

[Roderick]

It's pretty clear the Earth has been in a warming trend for the last 20,000 years and that the relative stability of the last 2,000 years is the exception and not the rule.  Salmon, which evolved as a family about 6 million years ago, have only existed in our area for the last 10,000 years, colonizing the local rivers after the glaciers retreated. 

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been

If you scroll down to the graph showing the average temperature over the last 500 million years, the up trend tick in temperature at the far right represents the last 20,000ish years. 

Believe it or not, all that historical variation in temperature, all those rapid massive swings up and down, was natural.  Humans have only had enough influence to affect climate for the last 250 or so years, and we are probably accelerating this already-existing trend.  I'm not sure we could reverse it, even if we wanted to.  The last thing we want is to precipitate another glaciation.  What we really want is climate stability, but looking at that graph tells me that we should remember the old adage that nothing is permanent except change.     

 

[Phronesis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtdasjU_f8

Another great video by Matt Foy

[Kever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtdasjU_f8

Another great video by Matt Foy

That was a great lecture! Cheers.

[yoda]

so in the latest opportunity on panel meeting today for sockeye, what is the difference i am not seeing between communal sale and economic
opportunity. Looking for clarity. I read some of the outlines on treaty and it sure sounds like it is for sale to general public. Am i wrong?