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[Rodney]

A waste of time to you perhaps, but quite important to those who are involved in it. And the controversy is only created by those who know very little about it and choose to only see the negatives.

The Sumas First Nation is exploring terminal fisheries that can be sustainable in the long run without having to rely solely on the Fraser River salmon abundance which is no longer an option on most years.

I think some are more concerned with the precedent being set and the possible green light for gill netting in the canal during the much larger fall salmon run when the river is much busier with recreational anglers.The summer chinook run is much smaller and has had less success with netting, but I am sure would do much better in the fall with the larger mass of fish passing through and with that higher success would come higher effort.

Valid concern but Sumas has addressed most of them and also demonstrated thir willingness to do this right. Last fall they chose not to gill net for coho, instead a pound net was attempted but it did not capture any fish. They then switched to dip netting just above the upper recreational fishing boundary, which also did not produce much result. Nobody involved expected it to be successful right away, these are trials which are providing lessons on how they can selectively harvest with success. I'm looking forward to new ideas being thrown out there at the meetings in the next few months, and really hope their fall fishing will produce this year.

[RalphH]

What is the point of the effort if only 53 Chinook taken? Seem like a waste of time for how much controversy it creates.

So it would be better to have the Sumas Nation return to taking wild endangered Upper Fraser chinook for FSC purposes as opposed to hatchery raised Chilliwack river chinook  that are in no way endangered and are in fact stocked into the Chilliwack system for the use of all user groups?

I don't see where the controversy arises as it is a far smarter use of resources than the alternative.

[clarki]

What is the point of the effort if only 53 Chinook taken? Seem like a waste of time for how much controversy it creates.

I don't see it as being a waste of time at all. I do some things (and I bet you do too) that, from an outside perspective, look to be waaay too much effort for the result I'm getting. But I do it because it's meaningful to me, or it's a family tradition, or it brings back memories. 

Time and effort vs. meaning, tradition and memories? Time and effort will lose almost every time.

[wildmanyeah]

So it would be better to have the Sumas Nation return to taking wild endangered Upper Fraser chinook for FSC purposes as opposed to hatchery raised Chilliwack river chinook  that are in no way endangered and are in fact stocked into the Chilliwack system for the use of all user groups?

I don't see where the controversy arises as it is a far smarter use of resources than the alternative.

You and I both know that the harvest of one does not mean the stopping of the harvest of the other.  Its always in addition too...ITs not like their Chilliwack quota reduces their quota in other fisheries. Tho I imagine if it does become a successful fishery for them other first nations that don't have the same opportunities might argue such.

If they could use hatchery fish like that it would only be a win all around.  It also points to the need to mark all hatchery fish, So that other lower fraser first nations could selectively harvest them

[RalphH]

You and I both know that the harvest of one does not mean the stopping of the harvest of the other.

[...]

no I don't know that and neither do you I suspect.

IIRC it was one of the rationals for introducing this fishery in the Vedder Canal.

[BNF861]

Valid concern but Sumas has addressed most of them and also demonstrated thir willingness to do this right. Last fall they chose not to gill net for coho, instead a pound net was attempted but it did not capture any fish. They then switched to dip netting just above the upper recreational fishing boundary, which also did not produce much result. Nobody involved expected it to be successful right away, these are trials which are providing lessons on how they can selectively harvest with success. I'm looking forward to new ideas being thrown out there at the meetings in the next few months, and really hope their fall fishing will produce this year.

It was definitely nice to hear about and see alternative and more selective methods explored and attempted and have also heard of some others planned or maybe have been even attempted on other rivers. Regardless of how things were done in the past, with mixed stocks this has to be the way forward.

[Cyanescens]

Any real reports of catches from this year? Fred's has been posting stuff but not sure if the pictures are from this year. Could just be propaganda.

[Chum Slayer]

there were a few caught in the last two days around the lower 1 sockeye and three springs the biggest one being about 15 pounds. I went out again today to my usual spot, everybody is fishing the campground side at Lickmen or train bridge. All the fish I have seen have been caught on roe and corkies I would say if your going for the meat fishery then wait another two weeks until they stack up at a few pools.

[Cyanescens]

Thanks CS, im actually thinking of taking my boat out on the sumas to see if i can find one. Cheers

[Chum Slayer]

Bar fishing might be an option with the high water

[Rodney]

FYI Sumas First Nation's terminal fishery for July 2022:

- 3 days a week 6pm Thursday to 12 pm Sunday afternoon starting July 1st - 31st
- Up to 4 Gillnets, 8” mesh fishery to target Chinook
- Non-retention of sockeye, sturgeon
- Select participation is provided by the community
- Location: Vedder river downstream of Keith Wilson Bridge to the confluence of the Sumas River into the Fraser River.
- Monitoring will be in place through the duration of the fishery and provided to DFO after each opening.
- Updates and fisheries planning are scheduled on a weekly basis.

[Phronesis]

Went to vedder today, water clarity is upto 1 to 2 feet lower river, upper river (above Allison) is clear upto 3 or 4 feet, got couple of trout but no signs of red spring, didnt see anyone else catching too.

[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

Iv seen many red returns that were very difficult to target angling wise due to run size and timing.  The last few seasons we have been fortunate to have decent to strong returns . 4-6 seasons back we had a really tough time even finding any fish for the first half of July . Later that season there appeared to be enough up top to my surprise .What happens when a poor return comes back and more fishing time /opportunities are being allocated to fn. is that fair from an angling standpoint on a 100 percent hatchery based introduced fishery ? Most average fishers can only harvest a few of these salmon a season and the surplus  from the hatchery already goes to another band doesn’t it ? It’s okay to say no more . It’s not a bad thing to put the brakes on and just leave things as they are for a few seasons and monitor it. The problem is it never gets taken away once its given . The other option would be to bolster the hatchery program so there is more fishing opportunity for fn interests . Is that not doable?

[Rodney]

Honestly, at this point, anglers have nothing to worry about when it comes to getting our share of fish to catch lol... So far, in the first couple of weeks, Sumas did not catch any fish in their gill nets.

Tomorrow I will be briefed in more details on how their fishing has been going tomorrow, plus how the stock monitoring is going.

[GENERAL-SHERMAN]

Wierd I was getting fish with net marks on them On sat/Sunday last week. Is their program being monitored by somebody or is it just what we are being told they are getting in their efforts  ? .  The only reason they are having trouble is the higher water this season in the canal as well as the run timing   . Your views aren’t going to change mine Rodney . We as anglers need to protect the few resources we have not hand them over for nothing . that don’t worry about it attitude is very concerning . Lol ? I dont find anything funny about it . Let’s not forget the sturgeon being killed in the canal a few seasons back. Is that funny too? I was on the reserve back when fn started netting sockeye on the vedder (even called it in only to watch a member from the band back there run up and warn  the poachers so they could hide their nets in the dyke ). This was done weeks before that program even started . 4-6 years of fn harvesting  and that run of fish is a small fraction of what it was. “Not enough “ sockeye were being caught so methods had to change and look what happened  . I understand larger mesh is being used now and this is a different band / different program yada yada  but the damage is already done . Poor consultation with angling community and bad decisions by a select few that should be standing with us.  And by the way I am First Nations so if this comes off one sided it’s not  . I’m just standing with my angling community .